@00Mass00 Carbon fiber gets it's name from the fact that it is mostly composed of carbon atoms. Carbon is an element (atomic number 6), it's name comes from the Latin "Carbo", meaning coal. Carbon fiber does not carbonize, because it already is carbon. (Carbonization is when an organic material containing carbon is heated and releases that carbon.) Carbon fiber sublimates (transitions from a solid directly to a gas) at 3642ºC. Some carbon composites are heat resistant (carbon-carbon) some aren't
well unless you have a huge oven home and vac bags you can't do the repair home... and as for the look of the CF weave will be impossible to match but if the car has paint on it you will never be able to tell the difference... and as for the strength the CF will retain all of its strength after a repair just like glass fiber... and just like glass fiber you don't need to replace the whole part but you can patch it up then apply filler were needed and paint
I know what you mean, I certainly would have respect to approach a machine with a tie. But it isn't like he is bowing towards the machine. ;-) I think he knows those machines very well.
it helped in my report in materials engineering. It's not boring, try to explore further material from carbon fiber. Your may not be interested but see automobile parts are made from carbon fiber. It's amazing how the strength of materials come into a not expected one.
When will they understand we don't want a carbon fiber part that's as strong as steel, but a part that is stronger than steel? Fex, put a few extra layers in that roof and sell it as a safety-feature (no pole is going to come through that roof, impaling your loved ones, if you land upsidedown at the side of the road). But a good video nonetheless! Very clever that guy who thought out that robot that makes the carbon composite roof, get him to think up robots that make other parts aswell!
@00Mass00 imm, which is the time it takes to transform some quantity of polyacrilonitrile into carbo fiber through heat?, hours, weeks, months?. The process seems to be simple but slow. Thomas Alba Edison created some rough type of carbon wire. 180ºC, 240ºC, 1000ºC on Argon atmosphere, 2400ºC, 3000ºC.
The biggest issue with using carbon fibre components like masts and booms for racing yachts is that the component explodes when its resistance to stress or impact is exceeded and carbon shards explode everywhere. How to contain that is a big challenge.
Why isn't it cheaper to do everything in one area from precursor to sheets of carbon fiber? All that shiping japan to the uk to germany must be expensive?
@AZURA888 So the exhaust dont reach that levels of temperature? Or that ''titanium exhaust" that they use in the Zonda, for instance, is a blend of titanium with something else?
ok there trying to be as green as they can during manufacturing , i kindah wonder how long it takes for carbon fiber to desolve or if its possible to reuse the material like you can aluminium or metal
+watahyahknow This is not a foundry. They do not have "dirty processes" in their facilities. The only reason (none really) they talk about a "carbon foot print" (which nobody has ever seen---like a real "Bigfoot" foot print), is because their processes take a lot of energy,---that wind mills and solar can not possibly provide (they had to go hydro---and used that for their relocation, and probably lucky they found one). I think it is time for the citizens of the world to wonder,--"Is this green movement thing really about saving nature, or destroying our wealth making capabilities?" If you compared the decline of nature to the decline of the global economy for any citizenry in the world (over the last 40 years)--which is worse? Have you ever seen a dictatorship who let their citizenry get wealthy with a free market?
Have to first remove the resin with pyrolitic decomposition (basically vaporizes all the organic resin in an oxygen free atmosphere then burns them to vaporize the resin of the next piece of carbon fiber) It is then shredded. It is then only used to reinforce plastics or concrete because it's is no longer continuous lengths
Carbon fiber will never become cheap. One neglects to mention that the entire process you see actually took 3-5 months from the base acrylonitrile to a complete carbon fiber panel. Not to mention there are less than 12 companies capable of manufacturing it in the world and each of them have a unique recipe guaranteeing their products while similar but not equally alike.
It's been 60 years since carbon fiber was invented. Can you name a man-made material that depreciate in costs like CF? I thought so. Understood the process, think before you speak. CF is not plastic or digital watches or even silicone.
B007 don't be so doubtful. there will always be newer and better production machines coming out. they can make something sooner or later that will make the production of carbon fiber much quicker or easier than it is now.
Didnt you read my post? I said 3-5 months from the base acrylonitrile. btw your post pretty much explains my post. Actually you're agreeing with me which is funny since you obviously didnt read or understand my post.
id like to see the pant owner i bet hes got a nose that points down,ahh germany loses 1000 hi tech workers somthing ahh i just gota go some some were right know ill be back.immigrates to eastern europe or north america.
carbon fiber repair is done similar to glass fiber so a specialist is not required... and repair cost may not be as expensive as you think but it still is costly... and when it comes to safety CF is much better cause in NCAP rating the CF cars are so strong one car can be used for all the test where as steel cars can only stand up to one test before being written off....
i agree with you on one point! but if you wanna see something about carbon, check the video: megafactories lexus lfa! you see how they layer it and learn a lot about it!
@Nairuulagch can't be burned, in the process the fiber is heated and quenched at 3000ºC, so if you put a zippo to a wire it turns red but doesn't burn because is already burned, more heat 4800ºC? it sublimates.
You obviously don't fully understand what it is that your trying to tell us.. A 1x1' sheet of carbon fiber composite with the same mass as a sheet of steel will be 50% stronger than the steel. Carbon fiber composites may be need to be thicker than steel to achieve the same strength but they still weigh much less because it's less dense than steel. Who makes carbon fiber composite parts with just 1 or 2 layers anyways?
@Dryzaum though is necessary to say that titanium oxidizes on air at 660ºC and reacts with nitrogen over 800ºC, that's why titanium is not used in turbines blades of aircraft, neither on combustion chambers or in the heat part of turbochargers of vehicle, For that purpose are used cromiun-nickel, niobium-molibdenum, carbon/boron cerments etc. Titanium is used in compressor section and as structural support.
Mario Trevino-Gonzalez your logic: I just destroyed 3 of my 4 neurones figuring out how to post a comment on youtube. Now I should destroy the other one attempting to contemplate how another human's mind operates.
Man, exhaust systems are NOT made of carbon fiber at all. They are titanium. This cooking thing is calculated and once cooled down it cant be heated again. I dont know exactly what happen to it but i think it looses its properties. Or its appearance's whatever. Mercedes didnt used carbon fiber in some pannels at the front of their Mclaren SLR because of the temperature of the engine. Obviously is no where near the 3000 celsius.
I own a carbon fiber bike. It is much lighter and stiffer then anything else I have ever rode. There is a reason that professional races ride on carbon bikes and it is not because it is cool or because someone bought it on sale. BTW you misspelled 'stupid'.
You do notice that Japan brands don't follow European brands, right? Japanese brands inovate like European brands, just there are more or less merchandising.
First off if it isnt about hardness but about tensile strength, density and stiffnes. As for those regular carbon fiber excels that of glass fiber by about 20%, is lighter by 20% or more and is 4 times stiffer (elongation over stress). There is a good reason for using it.
Oxidising from Polyacrylonitrile to the carbon fiber precursor, it's done by heating in an oven. Then the precursor is heated in a vacuum oven at a much higher temperature to make the final CF product (done in a vacuum otherwise the CF would oxidise further and just get turned into CO2 and ash)
haha you fool, you just told me your secret on how to make carbon fibers, now im going to make my own carbon fibers and take over your business hahahaaa :D!!
Why is it necessary to to send the fibres for such long runs whether vertical or horizontal. Obviously there must be a reason but it can't just be tension eh?
@Nairuulagch Carbon fiber can not burn.. it only carbonizes thats where it gets his name from :) thats whats gives the material its great stiffness and strength.. however it takes about 3000 degrees to do so, and a lot of time(specially high modulus carbon).. that's why its so expensive
love this video. for me the best part is the fibres progressively getting darker as the move through the rollers :D
@00Mass00 Carbon fiber gets it's name from the fact that it is mostly composed of carbon atoms. Carbon is an element (atomic number 6), it's name comes from the Latin "Carbo", meaning coal. Carbon fiber does not carbonize, because it already is carbon. (Carbonization is when an organic material containing carbon is heated and releases that carbon.) Carbon fiber sublimates (transitions from a solid directly to a gas) at 3642ºC. Some carbon composites are heat resistant (carbon-carbon) some aren't
Hi are you carbon expert?
Thanks for the explanation. Do you are Chemical engineer PhD. ?
Really interesting and seems even more detailed than what Discovery shows on the topic.
well unless you have a huge oven home and vac bags you can't do the repair home... and as for the look of the CF weave will be impossible to match but if the car has paint on it you will never be able to tell the difference... and as for the strength the CF will retain all of its strength after a repair just like glass fiber... and just like glass fiber you don't need to replace the whole part but you can patch it up then apply filler were needed and paint
8:24 brave Germany, wearing a "tie" and standing next to a rolling machine.
I know what you mean, I certainly would have respect to approach a machine with a tie.
But it isn't like he is bowing towards the machine. ;-) I think he knows those machines very well.
it helped in my report in materials engineering. It's not boring, try to explore further material from carbon fiber. Your may not be interested but see automobile parts are made from carbon fiber. It's amazing how the strength of materials come into a not expected one.
Oxidizing means removing the electrons or decreasing the electropositive element or radical of the material
so when on sale we will see first fully carbon fibre BMW? seems like serious preparations are very advanced...
When will they understand we don't want a carbon fiber part that's as strong as steel, but a part that is stronger than steel? Fex, put a few extra layers in that roof and sell it as a safety-feature (no pole is going to come through that roof, impaling your loved ones, if you land upsidedown at the side of the road). But a good video nonetheless! Very clever that guy who thought out that robot that makes the carbon composite roof, get him to think up robots that make other parts aswell!
the manager is a bit funny how he finishes his sentences :D
This reminds me of the droid factories in star wars lol.. they even make all the same sounds too lol
@00Mass00 imm, which is the time it takes to transform some quantity of polyacrilonitrile into carbo fiber through heat?, hours, weeks, months?. The process seems to be simple but slow. Thomas Alba Edison created some rough type of carbon wire. 180ºC, 240ºC, 1000ºC on Argon atmosphere, 2400ºC, 3000ºC.
Why is this not done in Germany from start to finish??
The biggest issue with using carbon fibre components like masts and booms for racing yachts is that the component explodes when its resistance to stress or impact is exceeded and carbon shards explode everywhere. How to contain that is a big challenge.
Does Carbotanium also do that?
Nice focus on carbon footprint ;-)
Why isn't it cheaper to do everything in one area from precursor to sheets of carbon fiber?
All that shiping japan to the uk to germany must be expensive?
@AZURA888 So the exhaust dont reach that levels of temperature? Or that ''titanium exhaust" that they use in the Zonda, for instance, is a blend of titanium with something else?
Thank You For The Information
Greetings Toyota,
your right you dont work for lexus you only produce the power plant for them :D
just perfect
ok there trying to be as green as they can during manufacturing , i kindah wonder how long it takes for carbon fiber to desolve or if its possible to reuse the material like you can aluminium or metal
+watahyahknow
This is not a foundry. They do not have "dirty processes" in their facilities. The only reason (none really) they talk about a "carbon foot print" (which nobody has ever seen---like a real "Bigfoot" foot print), is because their processes take a lot of energy,---that wind mills and solar can not possibly provide (they had to go hydro---and used that for their relocation, and probably lucky they found one).
I think it is time for the citizens of the world to wonder,--"Is this green movement thing really about saving nature, or destroying our wealth making capabilities?"
If you compared the decline of nature to the decline of the global economy for any citizenry in the world (over the last 40 years)--which is worse?
Have you ever seen a dictatorship who let their citizenry get wealthy with a free market?
Have to first remove the resin with pyrolitic decomposition (basically vaporizes all the organic resin in an oxygen free atmosphere then burns them to vaporize the resin of the next piece of carbon fiber) It is then shredded. It is then only used to reinforce plastics or concrete because it's is no longer continuous lengths
cool wonder if that system uses a lot of energy though , it IS interesting to know it CAN be done though
watahyahknow Recycling doesn't use much energy (the removal of the resin is usually self-sufficient)
Maybe stronger and lighter than steel yet very non resistant to heat, easily burns I guess.
Those robots are sexy
Carbon fiber will never become cheap. One neglects to mention that the entire process you see actually took 3-5 months from the base acrylonitrile to a complete carbon fiber panel. Not to mention there are less than 12 companies capable of manufacturing it in the world and each of them have a unique recipe guaranteeing their products while similar but not equally alike.
and none of those factors will ever change, for as long as humanity exists.
It's been 60 years since carbon fiber was invented. Can you name a man-made material that depreciate in costs like CF?
I thought so. Understood the process, think before you speak. CF is not plastic or digital watches or even silicone.
B007 I'm sorry you think 60 yrs is a long time. You did say NEVER.
B007 don't be so doubtful. there will always be newer and better production machines coming out. they can make something sooner or later that will make the production of carbon fiber much quicker or easier than it is now.
Didnt you read my post? I said 3-5 months from the base acrylonitrile.
btw your post pretty much explains my post. Actually you're agreeing with me which is funny since you obviously didnt read or understand my post.
Carbon fibers are made in Washington, USA because electricity is cheaper?
Yup
You mean video.
no wonder why carbon fiber is expensive
So obvious he´s reading text..
well, that's not a sex video...
Only germans my friend, only germans. Smart as hell but sometimes pretty damn boring :p
id like to see the pant owner i bet hes got a nose that points down,ahh germany loses 1000 hi tech workers somthing ahh i just gota go some some were right know ill be back.immigrates to eastern europe or north america.
Pearo.al.balona
HORRIBLE VIDEO QUALITY
This video is BORING!! A little music would make it much much better...
So you got three competing materials in automotive manufacturing - carbon fiber, aluminium, and steel.
carbon fiber repair is done similar to glass fiber so a specialist is not required... and repair cost may not be as expensive as you think but it still is costly... and when it comes to safety CF is much better cause in NCAP rating the CF cars are so strong one car can be used for all the test where as steel cars can only stand up to one test before being written off....
The best thing in this video was the robotic arms in the end , they seem to be more complex then the carbon fibre ...
www.gpmplus.fr Continuous Fiber Reinforced Thermoplastic Composites Machine
why do they all look that nervous in this video?! and that second guy just creeps me out "THIS IS...."
i agree with you on one point! but if you wanna see something about carbon, check the video: megafactories lexus lfa! you see how they layer it and learn a lot about it!
@Nairuulagch can't be burned, in the process the fiber is heated and quenched at 3000ºC, so if you put a zippo to a wire it turns red but doesn't burn because is already burned, more heat 4800ºC? it sublimates.
AZR NSMX1 have you seen the video of burning carbon fiber rod?
wow, i didnt know anything like that was an hour and a half drive from here. cool, wonder if i can get some blems lol
reduce carbon foot print by taking that carbon and making fibre out of it!!! HA!
Ste .L The company made the carbon first, before making the fibers.
You obviously don't fully understand what it is that your trying to tell us.. A 1x1' sheet of carbon fiber composite with the same mass as a sheet of steel will be 50% stronger than the steel. Carbon fiber composites may be need to be thicker than steel to achieve the same strength but they still weigh much less because it's less dense than steel. Who makes carbon fiber composite parts with just 1 or 2 layers anyways?
I wanna buy one roll of cloth
Brilliant!
Is it BMW policy not to look directly at the camera?
That would be unsettling
@Dryzaum though is necessary to say that titanium oxidizes on air at 660ºC and reacts with nitrogen over 800ºC, that's why titanium is not used in turbines blades of aircraft, neither on combustion chambers or in the heat part of turbochargers of vehicle, For that purpose are used cromiun-nickel, niobium-molibdenum, carbon/boron cerments etc. Titanium is used in compressor section and as structural support.
All this work for the roof, they could at least made the engine reliable
guess i missed it, but why is it pulled over such long distances
Did anyone else fall asleep while watching this?
Yeah I did... didn't even make it half way through I dont think now i'm watching it again skipping through the parts that I think I watched.
Means you have been watching too much porn.
this guy's logic: spends almost 15 minutes watching a video just to complain about how boring it was..
mathlover101hotmail Not enough porn lol
Mario Trevino-Gonzalez your logic: I just destroyed 3 of my 4 neurones figuring out how to post a comment on youtube. Now I should destroy the other one attempting to contemplate how another human's mind operates.
bmw is using cheap clean hydro generated electricity to power their factories, but government have to burn expensive dirty shit for public.
the carbon fiber strands are weaved by many different companies as in Hexcel, Sigmatex and other
Duane Bowen hi can i ask you a question?
CO2 does not global warming. Lighter cars accelerate faster though, and save on fuel.
Didn't know David Lynch did internal work
Man, exhaust systems are NOT made of carbon fiber at all. They are titanium. This cooking thing is calculated and once cooled down it cant be heated again. I dont know exactly what happen to it but i think it looses its properties. Or its appearance's whatever. Mercedes didnt used carbon fiber in some pannels at the front of their Mclaren SLR because of the temperature of the engine. Obviously is no where near the 3000 celsius.
Nothing like a Dodge commercial in the middle of a BMW corporate video.
this video was as exciting as watching grass grow.
Moses lake..frickin funny..on the coat tails of boeing i guess..not airbus
I own a carbon fiber bike. It is much lighter and stiffer then anything else I have ever rode. There is a reason that professional races ride on carbon bikes and it is not because it is cool or because someone bought it on sale.
BTW you misspelled 'stupid'.
Funny he says SGL is enraged about the release of the video, yet SGL has their own channel.... Hmm...
Will Ferrell..??!
if he was an awkward and bad actor. wait
no wonder the cars are so damn expensive. All that for one effing panel? lol
why color change? pag ang iron nahaluan ng oxygen, nag iiba ang kulay, prang kinakalawang. parang gnun dn yung concept nun.
German know their shit, precision and engeneering marvel!
so fun to see germans speaking english.
From Japan to Seattle to Germany...
im very surprised that bmw actually produce it internall from scratch, instead of buying it from a supplier
Sgl is their supplier of the raw tow
You do notice that Japan brands don't follow European brands, right? Japanese brands inovate like European brands, just there are more or less merchandising.
Why didn't they just buy from alibaba
First off if it isnt about hardness but about tensile strength, density and stiffnes. As for those regular carbon fiber excels that of glass fiber by about 20%, is lighter by 20% or more and is 4 times stiffer (elongation over stress). There is a good reason for using it.
Such a sick process and overall its just amazing in general that they can actually do this sort of thing
this dude is way to serious for the camera, find another talent, if you can, wow, take a chill pill
They take this very seriously
its good that i know how to make it but i dont have the money to carbon is too fucking expensive
What do you mean by oxidization process? Oxidizing from what to what?
Look it up, meat head.
Oxidising from Polyacrylonitrile to the carbon fiber precursor, it's done by heating in an oven. Then the precursor is heated in a vacuum oven at a much higher temperature to make the final CF product (done in a vacuum otherwise the CF would oxidise further and just get turned into CO2 and ash)
Carbon fiber composites are not harder but stronger(not the same!!)...
The one thing i didnt see in the factory, was people, where is all the workers? i only seen one.
zis is NOT fur der entertainings, it iz fur ze education, ant you VILL LEARN VIZOUT ZE MUZIK!
if you crash your gonna have to buy new steel or plastic ones aswell, tho they are much cheaper.
These plans are almost completely automated, just a handful of employees.
it sucks to be human
I wonder why they used plain weave instead of uni directional weave, plain is not as strong.
haha you fool, you just told me your secret on how to make carbon fibers, now im going to make my own carbon fibers and take over your business hahahaaa :D!!
Clean your room first Don.
your supply chain is ridiculous.
Make me a bronze car
because it's raw footage, he didn't edit it, no music, no narrator, nothing
I do this work...... Their plant is so much more high tech than ours.
what??? an carbon fiber roof without cooking in an autoclave???
Is that 48K tow? :O
Looks more like 50k
Presenter is so funny
leave it to the germans to make a great product but a boring video.
What makes the color change? They were white at first beginning.
this video is a must for students who are learning how to manufacture products of composites..
goog material, but it was long and make boring
It looks like sting in the beginning and hair at the end.
Why is it necessary to to send the fibres for such long runs whether vertical or horizontal. Obviously there must be a reason but it can't just be tension eh?
Oxidation and carbonization residence time to capture mechanical and physical properties.
@@josephstorrud8050 Thanks! I watched it again and they allude to that in the beginning
@Nairuulagch Carbon fiber can not burn.. it only carbonizes thats where it gets his name from :) thats whats gives the material its great stiffness and strength.. however it takes about 3000 degrees to do so, and a lot of time(specially high modulus carbon).. that's why its so expensive
00Mass00 have you seen the vid of burning carbonfiber rod?
aite vuurwekfan12 lets get back to making the lfa
Thank Sir
CHORISCOPIC
All that shipping must equate to higher cost of BMW cars.