Yes, it's exactly as LestaAZL has commented. The moulds you need for a pressurised bladder need to be incredibly strong (usually billet aluminium) in order to resist the deflection of the 'unbalanced' pressurised bladder. Therefore they tend to be very expensive to produce. An internal vacuum bag setup like this exerts equal pressure on the inside and outside of the mould, allowing much lighter, more cost effective composite moulds to be used.
Good point. Vacuum + plastic film= waste + money. You can make a thicker mould just by adding 3-4 layers of fiberglass or carbon fiber, hence achieving a stronger mould. I prefer the bladder anyways
this is the first time seeing your videos. I was designing composite parts in F1 for over 3 yrs of my 6yr stint and this offers the exact concepts and processes used in high level motorsport. Very nice.
There's a great deal of DIY composite videos on TH-cam that often look like epoxy castings with a little bit of fiber in them... So we really appreciate what you guys are doing at Easy Comp, representing proper structural layup, in concise and useful little tutorials with slick production. Quality 🏆
Thanks very much. Yes, we try to show a range of ways of doing things. We will, in fact, be returning to some simpler and more entry-level topics over the next few videos but they'll always be showing a process that's used for a good reason, even if that reason is simply to avoid the need for complex tools or equipment. Stay tuned.
@@easycompositestv hello am an amataeur when it comes to metals and non etals and materials, as far as i understand carbon fiber has been used extensively in space. i want to know what combination is best for such purpose and what types can i use to build space habitats ... say in the kuiper belt....thanks in dvance
Awesome video! Its so inspiring to see skilled professionals like yourself sharing your knowledge with those who want to learn. Keep up the epic work. i wish you good health and prosperity during these strange times.
how can you only have 154k subscribers :( ???? this is the best , most entertaining and useful how to video i have come across related to carbon fiber. definitely subscribed !!!!!!!
Hi Abraham, thanks for the comments. Well, what we do is quite niche; no cats on pianos, minecraft or just giving cash away so I guess we get quality subscribers, not quantity :)
Thank you so much for making this so easy and simple to understand even foran simple mind like me. Some day i am gone make the best looking Supermoto/dirtbike ever thanks to you, your videos, and your products. You (guys) are amazing.
wow im a CNC lathe\milling machine - programmer\operator this knowledge about carbon fiber is what i need because this is not programmable :) is only with free hands and i love it :)
This is exactly what I was looking for after that bike frame video! Much clearer! I would love to see some more information on compression molding techniques with pre-preg, similar to how the headstock was made on the bike frame. Good stuff, gents!
If you want an idea on the labor involved, check out the youtube channel Street Bandito. One of the guys is making (and is almost finished with) a full carbon body 240z. The guys does some fantastic work and his car looks gorgeous, all done himself.
@@readysetnogo I believe their channel is the reason why this video was recommended to me. I'm interested in handcrafted/homemade carbon fiber stuff. I'm glad there's other fans of the Street Bandito out here. They deserve more love for all of the effort they put into their builds especially the carbon z.
Very good informative video. Makes me want to start my own projects. What would be the easiest car part to start making? Interior trim, outer panels, induction etc etc...
Hi Kevin, I would say that modest sized external components are a good starting point. Interior trim pieces tend to be rather fiddly and have added complexities of mounting lugs etc. If you're thinking of using prepregs, such as shown in this video, then induction components could be a good place to start, or some exterior details like scoops or vents.
Wow man. I know im not going to he doing this any time soon due to financial reasons but when i do ill know whose videos to turn to. Superb explanations and very soothing to watch. Subbed.
So there's a couple videos on older (~2014 ish) formula 1 turbocharger intercooler tubing and what they where doing was the smooth side of the part was on the inside of the tubing. I think this was to preserve airflow and avoid turbulence losses. I really wanted to know how they actually molded those parts?
on that particular part there appears to be no undercuts on the larger opening but the throat of the intake would have likely been separate part of the negative keyed into the rest of the negative part. The process would be generally the same as creating the first mold for a standard part as seen in Easy Composites "Fibreglass/FRP Split-Mould Making Guide" or "How to Make a Prepreg Carbon Fibre Mould", except instead of having a split on the outer layer you would split the internal buck to easily remove it. For more complicated internal geometry you would have to include draft angles in the internal buck in order to ease removal as seen in "Making a Carbon Fibre Bike Frame" @32:30 with removing the inserts for the pass through on the frame.
Hi Christian, I'd agree with what Andrew says.The best process for parts that are 'smooth on the inside' would either be a made tool (if the part could be removed from the without becoming stuck) or it could be a male tool in more than one part, i.e. a split male tool, this would be common, or - for really complex shapes like induction shapes with multiple turns, then you could even use a sacrificial core. These wash-out or melt-out cores are a whole complex subject in their own right but in general they are made from a material that can be dissolved with water or melted out (lots to consider in terms of cure temp of the prepreg vs melt temp of the core) which is either cast (into a mould) or CNC machined.
Interesting information from our friends in the UK. I have a question about Pre-Preg carbon. From what I have learned about reading descriptions of Pre-Preg, is that it can cure at room temperature over a longer period of time. Considering that, if the part is cosmetic or not structural, couldn't you just put it in a mold and let it cure? Though I think the vacuum bags would be useful. I think because it is Pre-preg, you might not have the issues (bubbles) with traditional layup that more like Kevlar or fiber.
I'm very keen on his stuff now. Almost as accessible as fiberglass for the previous generation. I have a similar question to Jason's. Can some sort of balloon be used in an internal mould? Not many unlikes but it does seem you may be ruining someone's business model, that has no barrier to entry. It seems that's now in the design itself if we want to be productive so we can't just copy someone's steel or alloy product and make any money like that. I think that's just progress. I think this is great. Just looking at what else is around before I subscribe. I think you might be a first mover here. Nice timing, while so many are stuck at home.
The moulds you need for a pressurised bladder need to be incredibly strong (usually billet aluminium) in order to resist the deflection of the 'unbalanced' pressurised bladder. Therefore they tend to be very expensive to produce. An internal vacuum bag setup like this exerts equal pressure on the inside and outside of the mould, allowing much lighter, more cost effective composite moulds to be used.
Especially that now you know that you could possibly make it at home. I wonder what kind of oven needs to be used though, and at what temps and duration.
Thank you for great instructional videos. I may not get around to using the process, but having a greater understanding of what is required and can be done opens some doors for down the road.
Please you do indeed, i've started with Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber just recently, but have been watching your videos for years and they showed that it is alot of work but no magic involved, i have quite a few molds already, the whole vacuuming equipment is coming together piece by piece, until then i am using a food vacuum pump with the tubes and the clothes bags, which both release awesomely haha
It's really very difficult to make something like this using a resin infusion process. Nothing is impossible but the practicalities of dealing with dry fabric and then handling the infusion consumables, it just makes it too difficult.
@@easycompositestv indeed it is. The resin needs heated and degassed for a start. The material needs an activator and heat, to create a pre-formed shape. And then the resin needs injected with compressed air pushing it in, with vacuum at the other side helping draw the heated resin to every crevice in the pre-form. That's the "vague" theory used by aerospace to make resin infused carbon parts 👍 (I worked on autoclaves in this way)
@@E9JMX The only things that I find wrong with your reply is #1. The A+B epoxy creates its own heat to cure. #2. You only need vacuum to draw the epoxy into the material. #3. Adding compressed air would add air to the mix. Keep in mind I used to do these processes when making carbon fiber prosthetics. Adding to the fact that we both understand manufacturing, our products might require different processes. Just throwing my two cents in.
One could I think replace the layup with braided prepreg tubes of the correct diameter, simplifying the process. Has Easy Composites ever used braided carbon prepreg before?
There's a few obstacles with braided sleeves Anthony. Firstly, I'm not sure how braided prepregs could even practically be manufactured, stored, handled or used (although there may be solutions I'm not familiar with). For starters, the prepreg process has films on the inside and outside of the prepreg, I'm not sure how that could work - practically - for a braided sleeve. Furthermore, in most cases, the fibre orientation of a braid would be wrong. Braids will have predominantly +/- 45 degree fibre orientation, or at least some off-axis orientation, due to the way they're woven. Most applications for carbon tubes made the way we do in this video use a lot of unidirectional carbon oriented down the length of the tube, which isn't possible using a braided sleeve.
@@easycompositestv I believe that there are suppliers of braided prepregs. Not sure about those that are out of autoclave though. Braids are available in almost all fibre angles and have many great attributes. Among them are the increase in bulk properties as a result of short fibre crimping. They are a great replacement for wound fibres. I have used miles of them in my high pressure layflat hose invention. This site can give you loads of information about them. I especially like using triaxial braids. In general they require fewer layers, often only one, to match the performance of multi-axial knits. A & P technology is I believe the world leader in braids. Talk to Pam Schneider there, she will get you onto the right people in short order. www.braider.com/
meh not really. fiberglass parts are cheap as fuck. Cf is only slightly more expensive to work with. but it looks cool and people are easily fooled. so why not charge out the ass for it? the skills here are very basic. the tools very basic.
That raised part on the tube is for a sensor of some type? If that is the case and one would fit a threaded sensor in it, what is the approach? Sandwich a plate (anodized alu, stainless) , or glue the plate afterwards? Great to see you guys putting up new videos!
It was just some detail that we added for interest (the component is not real) but yes, a typical approach might be to sandwich an aluminium plate either side which could be drilled and tapped or just bolted to. Alternatively, the sensor (or its mounting plate) could just be bonded to the carbon fibre using something like VuduGlu VM100.
Hi guys...thanks for all the tutorials. Actually i was looking to make carbon fibre wheels ...could you guys make a tutorial for that too if possible? Also do you guys ship to India? I really wanted that chemical release agent
Hi Arsh, thanks for your comments. I'm not sure we'll make a video specifically about making carbon fibre wheels because it's unlikely that anyone at the learning stage of the their composites is going to take-on making carbon fibre wheels. However, the process would essentially be a combination of what you see in this video and in our bike frame video, with a lot of extra complexity and really critical calculations and knowledge for safety.
6:31 at glider fuselagebuilding we use fishing line which goes in a zick-zack (Z-shape; x-shape) over the mould surface to hold down the wet carbon fibres. When the upper mould have is put onto it, we cut the fishing line. Pull it out and everything inside the mould is sitting right. But instead of vacuum we use 3 bar of pressure with a long balloon.
@@easycompositestv www.f5b.de/rumpfaufbau_2020.html Almost at the end of the page you can see how modell plane builders doing it with the fishing line.
@@OwenSullivan03 yeah you are right but there are filaments that can resist over 200°, instead with this carbon treatment, the temperatures are not very high
@@OwenSullivan03 You can easily release the carbon fiber from the mold by putting a special grease called "vax" before you put the carbon fiber with the resin. They didnt mentioned it in the video but you can find it in other videos with carbon fiber projects.
Could I ask that you maybe do a video on making a 1:32 scale model car, perhaps use a scale die-cast car as the basis of the mold, I have seen a few resin cast cars but after watching video it dawned on me that carbon fibre in single layer coukd be mush more durable as a slot car and I think a lot lighter than resin cast
Thanks for the amazing content hope you keep making more videos. Wish there was videos many years ago or ways to learn more about composite molding so on. I remember it was hard to find much out there when it came to working with prepreg and doing mould making. When looked around was lack of anyone showing how to do prepreg was like it was a secret so most you would see was doing wet, other than Mclaren F1 or aircraft and few boats.
Hi, yes, that was our experience when we started out too. That's why, - as we acquired knowledge, figured processes out, or developed our own methods - we wanted to share them with others.
Hyperian if you want to make them lower buy price just use industrial machines and bigger number of employees and you can produce more so price will be lower
@@samyoung8470 if it was that simple, we would be swimming in carbon fiber products nowadays. Modern mass manufacturing has existed for more than a century now and carbon fiber mass manufacturing has existed for more than half a century now. Even quality carbon bike frames are still in the $1k+ range.
Well, of course that's right Roger; advanced carbon fibre composites are definitely not a potential rival for mass produced forms where weight is not critical.
Cosmetics aside, would making a tubular component in 2 halves and then bonding them together with a structural adhesive, be as strong/a viable alternative to using prepreg?
As long as the overlap is big enough then yes, with a good structural adhesive you should be fine. There will always be some slight differences as the lay up is going to be different but modern structural adhesives such as our VM100 Methylmethacrylate is stronger than the interlaminar strength of the carbon in testing so the bond itself if properly done won't be the weak point.
Koenigsegg* but yeah it's stupidly hard. And koenigsegg makes sure all the weaves line up then sand down the outer to a perfect matte finish. So if it takes two hours to make this tube for a normal person, you can look at about four to six for koenigsegg.
Great video! I was wondering why not an internal balloon (maybe a modified motorcycle inner tube) instead of this vacuum bag setup. Is there an advantage to curing under vacuum instead of pressure?
Thanks! The moulds you need for a pressurised bladder need to be incredibly strong (usually billet aluminium) in order to resist the deflection of the 'unbalanced' pressurised bladder. Therefore they tend to be very expensive to produce. An internal vacuum bag setup like this exerts equal pressure on the inside and outside of the mould, allowing much lighter, more cost effective composite moulds to be used.
Great video, thanks! What is the advantage of having the lapps on both edges of one piece of fabric and trimming both edges on the other as opposed to cutting mirror images for each side?
in which situation would you need this skill? This seems like a lot of work and stress. people enjoy making this? genuinely curious. Where would this mold be used? Equipment looks expensive too. Is it worth the purchase? does it bring back the revenue that offsets the cost? thanks
Hi Kelly, phew.. a lot to unpack there :) This process *is* pretty involved, I guess the tutorial is more aimed at serious amateurs, composites enthusiasts and businesses. Certainly you can make money out of composites fabrication but it's not really something you'd just have a go at if you don't already have an interest.
@@easycompositestv Thank you for the explanation. It's fascinating to see what other people are into and the skills involved within. One day I might get into it as well..
I always wanted to know how to make this kind of tube.Now i know! Thanks ,is this also somehow possible to make when using a plug so that the inside will be smooth everywhere?I once saw a 4piece demountable tube as a plug .
Wow, that would really be a complex moulding. Anything is possible but you'd face a huge number of difficulties and challenges to make a matched tool, split mould in the way you're describing. I'm not really sure that there are too many situations where a double A-side tube mould would be sufficiently required to justify the tooling and production complexity. Probably better to finish one side by hand.
Inserts can generally be laminated in during manufacture or bonded in afterwards. The composite material itself is generally not suitable to hold a thread.
More great instruction! Thank you! At risk of sounding ungrateful... Any chance you will show how you made the mould for that tube? Please keep the videos coming!
Check the bike frame video - looks to be the same process using tooling prepreg (it has an integral black gel coat. Easy Composites high temp epoxy gel coat is grey, so this is not a wet lay carbon mould.)
Hi Vinn, yes, as the others have posted it's a prepreg carbon fibre tool. The patterns (for the two halves) were CNC machined from epoxy tooling board like in th-cam.com/video/CWAvo8DIZ9s/w-d-xo.html and then the mould halves made from made from XT135 tooling prepreg like in th-cam.com/video/k4GdAuNji5g/w-d-xo.html
Great video, is it possible to do this kind of part with a wet layup or infusion? I'm struggling to find a convenient supplier of pre preg locally (Australia), and I don't have a autoclave big enough for the parts I want to make (approx 1 metre long). My intuition tells me I would at least need to seal the moulds together to prevent resin going between the flanges. Maybe an 'O' ring seal around the circumference of the mould or silicone the mould together and clean it off after each part?? Cheers
Generally, carbon fibre tubes, especially in their raw form like this, wouldn't make the best choice for radiator hoses. The engine cooling system is actually quite a challenging environment for a composite material; you have the combination of boiling (or near boiling) water, an operating temperature that's almost at the maximum operating temperature of the laminate anyway, and the ethylene glycol (antifreeze) all adding up to create an environment that is likely to compromise the carbon fibre. Where you really want to use carbon fibre on a coolant system I would suggest using a tank sealer coating on the inside of the tube, something like Caswell Europe's GTS75.
The split-mould we used in this video is a prepreg carbon fibre tool. The patterns (for the two halves) were CNC machined from epoxy tooling board like in th-cam.com/video/CWAvo8DIZ9s/w-d-xo.html and then the mould halves made from made from XT135 carbon 10:00 28/04/2020fibre tooling prepreg like in th-cam.com/video/k4GdAuNji5g/w-d-xo.html. There are other solutions for making high temperature moulds, such as a hand layup process using high temperature epoxy tooling gelcoat, resin and paste which you can find out about in this tutorial (on our website) www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/composites-tutorials/High-Temp-Tooling-Gelcoat-Putty-Mould
A great video thanks does the internal bag have to be open at both ends or is one end sufficient ? I current make RC Glider fuselage pods using a bladder but am interested in trying the vac bag method. Many thanks
Hi Nigel, it would be absolutely fine for it to be only open at one end. This would be very common for complex frame sections or the plane fuselage, as you suggested.
Dumb question here! But when you put it in the cabinet was it just a cabinet that kept vacuum and baked it? Or did it just naturally bond while under vacuum? Just qurious on what happened in the cabinet.
Does the seam give up any strength compared to the rest of the part? Will the failure be the same if part is tested 0° or turned 90°? Just wondering if the seem orientation needs to be factored. Thanks.
The seam (and joins in carbon fibre) will inevitably influence the failure point on the component. Depending on the amount of overlap and the position and staggering of the joins though it could even be that the seam would fail last. Remember that it often wouldn't be possible to change the position or orientation of the seam if the mould is to work correctly as a split mould. Often there is only one place where the split can be.
Can you guys also make a video about the stiffness and flexibility of carbon parts? Tensile strength, bending torsion etc. according to the number of different layers and production types. That might be very useful information for us before we start production. By the way, great quality content, thank you
Yes, we're planning this right now. You probably noticed we have our universal test rig so we can perform any kind of tests like this. We'll do something comparing different materials and forms quite soon.
Is there a reason to use vac instead of just pressurizing a bladder inside the mould?
In vac, the atmospheric pressure push the mold together. When bladder tries to open the mold, so you would need stronger mold to hold
@@LestaAZL I was wondering this same exact thing. Thanks for the logical response.
Yes, it's exactly as LestaAZL has commented. The moulds you need for a pressurised bladder need to be incredibly strong (usually billet aluminium) in order to resist the deflection of the 'unbalanced' pressurised bladder. Therefore they tend to be very expensive to produce. An internal vacuum bag setup like this exerts equal pressure on the inside and outside of the mould, allowing much lighter, more cost effective composite moulds to be used.
Good point. Vacuum + plastic film= waste + money. You can make a thicker mould just by adding 3-4 layers of fiberglass or carbon fiber, hence achieving a stronger mould. I prefer the bladder anyways
What pressure would a pipe like that hold
this is the first time seeing your videos. I was designing composite parts in F1 for over 3 yrs of my 6yr stint and this offers the exact concepts and processes used in high level motorsport. Very nice.
Thanks for the comment, that’s great to hear. 👍
Can i ask what kinda parts you made and for which team? I'm just a big F1 fan and i'd like to know
+1 on knowing what team you were on with driver and what parts. Pleassseeee!
@@slipknotfan2217 He worked for Mercedes AMG F1
@@elissitdesign Mercedes AMG F1
You guys have brought my DIY hobbies to a whole new level. Thank you!
There's a great deal of DIY composite videos on TH-cam that often look like epoxy castings with a little bit of fiber in them... So we really appreciate what you guys are doing at Easy Comp, representing proper structural layup, in concise and useful little tutorials with slick production. Quality 🏆
Thanks very much. Yes, we try to show a range of ways of doing things. We will, in fact, be returning to some simpler and more entry-level topics over the next few videos but they'll always be showing a process that's used for a good reason, even if that reason is simply to avoid the need for complex tools or equipment. Stay tuned.
It's great that you have resumed the videos.
Thanks, yes, we're pleased to be getting back on with them.
@@easycompositestv great work! cheers from Italy!
Your workspace is always so incredibly clean and organized... I would love to have a workspace like that!
As someone who is completely new to all of this I just wanted to say you are by far the best information source I've come across!
Thanks for the feedback. Nice to hear that we're achieving what we set out to do.
You guys have the best carbon fiber tutorials. Thank you for all that you do. Can’t wait for the next one!
Haha, thanks a lot. We'll get cracking then!
You guys deliver great content. So good to hear, youre uploading again! Much appreciated :-)
Thank you Lukas, we appreciate your comments and support.
for the long time, finally i found channel like this
Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you like it.
@@easycompositestv hello am an amataeur when it comes to metals and non etals and materials, as far as i understand carbon fiber has been used extensively in space. i want to know what combination is best for such purpose and what types can i use to build space habitats ... say in the kuiper belt....thanks in dvance
Most advanced material. Oldest type of mold, used for many materials and applications. Gotta love it! Thanks so much for sharing!
Why these carbon videos seem more satisfying than satisfying videos in general I don't know.
Because you learn something just by looking and get ideas what you can do with it .
Awesome video! Its so inspiring to see skilled professionals like yourself sharing your knowledge with those who want to learn. Keep up the epic work. i wish you good health and prosperity during these strange times.
Thank you sir, much appreciated. Good health and prosperity to you too. :)
@@easycompositestv thank you. Namaste 🙏😊
Amazing! You guys are the pros in explanations. Very very easy to understand! Thank you.
Thanks Caleb, I'm glad you found it easy to follow. That's always the challenge with these complex subjects.
how can you only have 154k subscribers :( ???? this is the best , most entertaining and useful how to video i have come across related to carbon fiber. definitely subscribed !!!!!!!
Hi Abraham, thanks for the comments. Well, what we do is quite niche; no cats on pianos, minecraft or just giving cash away so I guess we get quality subscribers, not quantity :)
Now they have 371k subscribers. Their videos are pure gold. 🤙🏻
Thank you so much for making this so easy and simple to understand even foran simple mind like me. Some day i am gone make the best looking Supermoto/dirtbike ever thanks to you, your videos, and your products. You (guys) are amazing.
Thanks very much, I'm really glad this is inspiring you.
wow
im a CNC lathe\milling machine - programmer\operator
this knowledge about carbon fiber is what i need because this is not programmable :)
is only with free hands and i love it :)
Great, glad you enjoyed it.
Now that I'm stuck at home, I really don't have an excuse to put off my composites projects. Awesome video - thanks!
Haha, that's true David.
Well if we are about to enter a world wide depression, no is not the time for hobbies
Finally! These videos are by far the best on TH-cam about composites. Please keep making them!
Thanks Greg, we'll do our best.
How am I so lucky? Just watched the 3-part mould video series a few hours back, and just an hour ago this gets uploaded! :)
This is exactly what I was looking for after that bike frame video! Much clearer! I would love to see some more information on compression molding techniques with pre-preg, similar to how the headstock was made on the bike frame. Good stuff, gents!
Thanks a lot, I'm glad this made it clearer. Yes, we might well do something quite soon on the compression moulding with silicone. Stay tuned.
@@easycompositestv Excellent! Keep up the good work!
Thank you for your time in making these incredibly informative, educational videos.
Thank you for watching and commenting Mac Mac, we’ll keep them coming 😀
All of that work for just one pipe, can’t even begin to imagine what it takes to build a koenigsegg, the entire car is a carbonfiber
And that's why they cost millions of dollars as well.
At least they won't rust.
If you want an idea on the labor involved, check out the youtube channel Street Bandito. One of the guys is making (and is almost finished with) a full carbon body 240z. The guys does some fantastic work and his car looks gorgeous, all done himself.
GUNER 400 parts;)
But dont worrie you Pay for the extra Carbon time:)
@@readysetnogo I believe their channel is the reason why this video was recommended to me. I'm interested in handcrafted/homemade carbon fiber stuff. I'm glad there's other fans of the Street Bandito out here. They deserve more love for all of the effort they put into their builds especially the carbon z.
No way I just watched a video with you from 2008 and then this one popped up in recommended. That was a wild ride figuring out the long hair....
That’s just part of a 20 year commitment to composites! 👍
I liked and subscribed and as soon as I've learned enough to be competent I will purchase all my stuff from your website.
Well done guys 👍
Thank you !
Thanks, that's great to hear. We look forward to supplying you and seeing how you get on with your project.
I don't know how I even found this video just scrolling through TH-cam but that is actually a very cool process
Haha, thanks Dennis, sometimes entertainment comes from the strangest places!
Very good informative video. Makes me want to start my own projects. What would be the easiest car part to start making? Interior trim, outer panels, induction etc etc...
Hi Kevin, I would say that modest sized external components are a good starting point. Interior trim pieces tend to be rather fiddly and have added complexities of mounting lugs etc. If you're thinking of using prepregs, such as shown in this video, then induction components could be a good place to start, or some exterior details like scoops or vents.
what a super explanation, this is going to help me to better explain the process to my clients, thanks!
Thanks Peter, glad it was helpful.
Wow man. I know im not going to he doing this any time soon due to financial reasons but when i do ill know whose videos to turn to. Superb explanations and very soothing to watch. Subbed.
Thank you, glad to have you on board :)
So there's a couple videos on older (~2014 ish) formula 1 turbocharger intercooler tubing and what they where doing was the smooth side of the part was on the inside of the tubing. I think this was to preserve airflow and avoid turbulence losses. I really wanted to know how they actually molded those parts?
Link: th-cam.com/video/LS47125tUzk/w-d-xo.html
The part is around the 13:10 mark
on that particular part there appears to be no undercuts on the larger opening but the throat of the intake would have likely been separate part of the negative keyed into the rest of the negative part. The process would be generally the same as creating the first mold for a standard part as seen in Easy Composites "Fibreglass/FRP Split-Mould Making Guide" or "How to Make a Prepreg Carbon Fibre Mould", except instead of having a split on the outer layer you would split the internal buck to easily remove it. For more complicated internal geometry you would have to include draft angles in the internal buck in order to ease removal as seen in "Making a Carbon Fibre Bike Frame" @32:30 with removing the inserts for the pass through on the frame.
Hi Christian, I'd agree with what Andrew says.The best process for parts that are 'smooth on the inside' would either be a made tool (if the part could be removed from the without becoming stuck) or it could be a male tool in more than one part, i.e. a split male tool, this would be common, or - for really complex shapes like induction shapes with multiple turns, then you could even use a sacrificial core. These wash-out or melt-out cores are a whole complex subject in their own right but in general they are made from a material that can be dissolved with water or melted out (lots to consider in terms of cure temp of the prepreg vs melt temp of the core) which is either cast (into a mould) or CNC machined.
Why do I find these so satisfying
Interesting information from our friends in the UK. I have a question about Pre-Preg carbon. From what I have learned about reading descriptions of Pre-Preg, is that it can cure at room temperature over a longer period of time. Considering that, if the part is cosmetic or not structural, couldn't you just put it in a mold and let it cure? Though I think the vacuum bags would be useful. I think because it is Pre-preg, you might not have the issues (bubbles) with traditional layup that more like Kevlar or fiber.
it will not cure properly in a structural sense at room temperature let alone in a cosmetic way.
finally,ive been waiting so long for a video like this! as always you guys makes such great tutorials! keep it up
Thanks very much, we appreciate your comments.
was just about to say this too!
I'm very keen on his stuff now. Almost as accessible as fiberglass for the previous generation. I have a similar question to Jason's. Can some sort of balloon be used in an internal mould?
Not many unlikes but it does seem you may be ruining someone's business model, that has no barrier to entry. It seems that's now in the design itself if we want to be productive so we can't just copy someone's steel or alloy product and make any money like that. I think that's just progress. I think this is great. Just looking at what else is around before I subscribe. I think you might be a first mover here. Nice timing, while so many are stuck at home.
The moulds you need for a pressurised bladder need to be incredibly strong (usually billet aluminium) in order to resist the deflection of the 'unbalanced' pressurised bladder. Therefore they tend to be very expensive to produce. An internal vacuum bag setup like this exerts equal pressure on the inside and outside of the mould, allowing much lighter, more cost effective composite moulds to be used.
After watching this I feel like my car needs a carbon intake tube.
exactly what i was thinking ahaha
Especially that now you know that you could possibly make it at home. I wonder what kind of oven needs to be used though, and at what temps and duration.
same...
Thank you for great instructional videos. I may not get around to using the process, but having a greater understanding of what is required and can be done opens some doors for down the road.
Always wondered how the hell this was done.. Thank you so much guys.. Love your videos
Our pleasure. Thanks for watching!
Yay new easy composites video! and the right video at the right time i need it since i am working on an induction system
Haha, great, that's good timing then. We aim to please :)
Please you do indeed, i've started with Fiberglass and Carbon Fiber just recently, but have been watching your videos for years and they showed that it is alot of work but no magic involved, i have quite a few molds already, the whole vacuuming equipment is coming together piece by piece, until then i am using a food vacuum pump with the tubes and the clothes bags, which both release awesomely haha
Great knowledge sharing and explanation behind the concepts used.
Thank you, glad you liked it.
I watched this years ago... still worth a watch anytime. Great content!!
🤜🏼🤛🏼😎🍀🍀🍀🇦🇺
Can we use the same process with vacuum infusion instead of pre-preg ?
he said you can but its not worth it
It's really very difficult to make something like this using a resin infusion process. Nothing is impossible but the practicalities of dealing with dry fabric and then handling the infusion consumables, it just makes it too difficult.
@@easycompositestv indeed it is. The resin needs heated and degassed for a start. The material needs an activator and heat, to create a pre-formed shape. And then the resin needs injected with compressed air pushing it in, with vacuum at the other side helping draw the heated resin to every crevice in the pre-form. That's the "vague" theory used by aerospace to make resin infused carbon parts 👍 (I worked on autoclaves in this way)
@@E9JMX The only things that I find wrong with your reply is #1. The A+B epoxy creates its own heat to cure. #2. You only need vacuum to draw the epoxy into the material. #3. Adding compressed air would add air to the mix. Keep in mind I used to do these processes when making carbon fiber prosthetics. Adding to the fact that we both understand manufacturing, our products might require different processes. Just throwing my two cents in.
One could I think replace the layup with braided prepreg tubes of the correct diameter, simplifying the process. Has Easy Composites ever used braided carbon prepreg before?
There's a few obstacles with braided sleeves Anthony. Firstly, I'm not sure how braided prepregs could even practically be manufactured, stored, handled or used (although there may be solutions I'm not familiar with). For starters, the prepreg process has films on the inside and outside of the prepreg, I'm not sure how that could work - practically - for a braided sleeve. Furthermore, in most cases, the fibre orientation of a braid would be wrong. Braids will have predominantly +/- 45 degree fibre orientation, or at least some off-axis orientation, due to the way they're woven. Most applications for carbon tubes made the way we do in this video use a lot of unidirectional carbon oriented down the length of the tube, which isn't possible using a braided sleeve.
@@easycompositestv I believe that there are suppliers of braided prepregs. Not sure about those that are out of autoclave though.
Braids are available in almost all fibre angles and have many great attributes. Among them are the increase in bulk properties as a result of short fibre crimping.
They are a great replacement for wound fibres.
I have used miles of them in my high pressure layflat hose invention.
This site can give you loads of information about them. I especially like using triaxial braids. In general they require fewer layers, often only one, to match the performance of multi-axial knits. A & P technology is I believe the world leader in braids. Talk to Pam Schneider there, she will get you onto the right people in short order. www.braider.com/
this guy keeps us entertained during the Quarantine do give him a huge LIKE
Haha, thanks a lot :)
Never stop doing this videos please🙏
We'll try Luis :)
Labor and skill intensive. Now I know why CF parts costs.
Hi Karl, yes indeed.
meh not really. fiberglass parts are cheap as fuck. Cf is only slightly more expensive to work with. but it looks cool and people are easily fooled. so why not charge out the ass for it? the skills here are very basic. the tools very basic.
Diesel Ramcharger
Basic skills? Then 99% of the population doesn’t possess basic skills. Lol
@@SkypowerwithKarl Just because you can't do it doesn't mean the rest of the world can't.
@@DieselRamcharger if what you are saying is true then make a carbon fiber part manufacturing business and make a killing. Ezpz right???
you guys are killing it with these videos!!! great job!
Thanks Leon, stay tuned!
Great video! Could you do a video on mould production using a 3D printer?
Yes, this is pretty much top of our list. Lots of people requesting 3D printed mould solutions; we'll put something together.
That raised part on the tube is for a sensor of some type?
If that is the case and one would fit a threaded sensor in it, what is the approach?
Sandwich a plate (anodized alu, stainless) , or glue the plate afterwards?
Great to see you guys putting up new videos!
It was just some detail that we added for interest (the component is not real) but yes, a typical approach might be to sandwich an aluminium plate either side which could be drilled and tapped or just bolted to. Alternatively, the sensor (or its mounting plate) could just be bonded to the carbon fibre using something like VuduGlu VM100.
@@easycompositestv thx for the reply ☺
But how do you make the mould
TH-cam it!
Is there a method if I want the inside of the tube with a smooth surface ? Should I use undirectional Prepreg on the last layer
Watch our other video on mandrel wrapped tubes as they are smooth inside.
@@easycompositestv but I have mould like in this video my tube is almost like the one in the video not straight is there a solution ?
Hi guys...thanks for all the tutorials.
Actually i was looking to make carbon fibre wheels ...could you guys make a tutorial for that too if possible?
Also do you guys ship to India?
I really wanted that chemical release agent
Hi Arsh, thanks for your comments. I'm not sure we'll make a video specifically about making carbon fibre wheels because it's unlikely that anyone at the learning stage of the their composites is going to take-on making carbon fibre wheels. However, the process would essentially be a combination of what you see in this video and in our bike frame video, with a lot of extra complexity and really critical calculations and knowledge for safety.
aerosol wax
6:31 at glider fuselagebuilding we use fishing line which goes in a zick-zack (Z-shape; x-shape) over the mould surface to hold down the wet carbon fibres. When the upper mould have is put onto it, we cut the fishing line. Pull it out and everything inside the mould is sitting right. But instead of vacuum we use 3 bar of pressure with a long balloon.
Thanks Sebastian, it's really interesting to hear about your process; that sounds clever.
@@easycompositestv www.f5b.de/rumpfaufbau_2020.html
Almost at the end of the page you can see how modell plane builders doing it with the fishing line.
Excellent video, thank you!
Thank you Graham :)
If i 3d print the mold, I will get the same result? Maybe using a bit of sandpaper to flat the edges
@@OwenSullivan03 yeah you are right but there are filaments that can resist over 200°, instead with this carbon treatment, the temperatures are not very high
@@OwenSullivan03 You can easily release the carbon fiber from the mold by putting a special grease called "vax" before you put the carbon fiber with the resin. They didnt mentioned it in the video but you can find it in other videos with carbon fiber projects.
Have you used sacrificial mandrels 3D printed, this would give you a “tooled” internal surface,
Idk why I'm watching these, I'll probably never make anything, but I find them to be incredibly intriguing.
Glad you enjoyed :)
This just makes me wanna make a sweet custom intake lol
Could I ask that you maybe do a video on making a 1:32 scale model car, perhaps use a scale die-cast car as the basis of the mold, I have seen a few resin cast cars but after watching video it dawned on me that carbon fibre in single layer coukd be mush more durable as a slot car and I think a lot lighter than resin cast
Actually, the inner bag stays pressurized to atmospheric pressure, 14.7 psi.
Thanks for the amazing content hope you keep making more videos.
Wish there was videos many years ago or ways to learn more about composite molding so on. I remember it was hard to find much out there when it came to working with prepreg and doing mould making.
When looked around was lack of anyone showing how to do prepreg was like it was a secret so most you would see was doing wet, other than Mclaren F1 or aircraft and few boats.
Hi, yes, that was our experience when we started out too. That's why, - as we acquired knowledge, figured processes out, or developed our own methods - we wanted to share them with others.
and this is why carbon fiber parts are so expensive
That's right I'm afraid!
Hyperian if you want to make them lower buy price just use industrial machines and bigger number of employees and you can produce more so price will be lower
@@PakleniVuk industrial machines = money. More employees = money. More machines + more employees + more money invested does not equal more demand.
@@kolyafreeman5414 + more production + more supply + more availability
- price - time ✌✌✌😅
@@samyoung8470 if it was that simple, we would be swimming in carbon fiber products nowadays. Modern mass manufacturing has existed for more than a century now and carbon fiber mass manufacturing has existed for more than half a century now. Even quality carbon bike frames are still in the $1k+ range.
So THAT'S how those those bike frames are made. Thank you for the tutorial 🙂
Check out our bike frame build video if you want to really get into the details of it! Thanks for watching and commenting?
This reminds me of my days working on the B-2 bomber. Days I'd rather forget. lol
Amazing tutorial, but why did you plug in the bag inside the curing oven?
this is great! Can you list the steps you use here in writing
This is so labour intensive it will never replace traditional metal methods except for absolutely weight critical applications.
Well, of course that's right Roger; advanced carbon fibre composites are definitely not a potential rival for mass produced forms where weight is not critical.
Never is a long time and there are always smart people looking to save a it of it.
I would like to make a carbon fibre person as my personal companion.
Would your oven also be suitable for curing a ceramic coating such as Cerakote as well as for cabon fibre work?
Depends on the temperature it needs to go to and if it solvent offgasses. The oven is not designed to be able to vent solvents.
@@easycompositestv Well within the temp range, just need to check about the off gassing.
I can and will make anything and everything from carbon fibre.
Cosmetics aside, would making a tubular component in 2 halves and then bonding them together with a structural adhesive, be as strong/a viable alternative to using prepreg?
As long as the overlap is big enough then yes, with a good structural adhesive you should be fine. There will always be some slight differences as the lay up is going to be different but modern structural adhesives such as our VM100 Methylmethacrylate is stronger than the interlaminar strength of the carbon in testing so the bond itself if properly done won't be the weak point.
now we know how hard can it be, when you want to make a Koenigzegg
For sure, this is labour intensive work!
Koenigsegg* but yeah it's stupidly hard. And koenigsegg makes sure all the weaves line up then sand down the outer to a perfect matte finish. So if it takes two hours to make this tube for a normal person, you can look at about four to six for koenigsegg.
Your videos are excellent.
Glad you like them!
Life is good.
Bro we’re able to build complex carbon Fiber parts so easy… LIFE IS GOOD.
Great video! I was wondering why not an internal balloon (maybe a modified motorcycle inner tube) instead of this vacuum bag setup. Is there an advantage to curing under vacuum instead of pressure?
Thanks! The moulds you need for a pressurised bladder need to be incredibly strong (usually billet aluminium) in order to resist the deflection of the 'unbalanced' pressurised bladder. Therefore they tend to be very expensive to produce. An internal vacuum bag setup like this exerts equal pressure on the inside and outside of the mould, allowing much lighter, more cost effective composite moulds to be used.
@@easycompositestv that makes sense. Thank you!
This looks exhausting and expensive.
Exactly why carbon parts are expensive
What would you do if there was not an open end on the mould in terms of pulling the vacuum? Let's say you're making a splitter or a spolier?
You need a hole of some kind for the bag ends to be accessible for this method to work.
cost of carbon fiber pieces: 10%, cost of materials.... 90% PITA tax
Can a home oven be used? What temperature does the part need to be baked at? Also we’re those two halves moulds made from wax offset sheets?
Thanks!
You can see how to use a home oven in this video: th-cam.com/video/6xj06Am94aQ/w-d-xo.html
What was the massive cabinet you used to bake the lay up ? That sure doesn't look cheap
It is our OV301 Benchtop curing oven. Full details here: www.easycomposites.co.uk/ov301-precision-curing-oven
Great video, thanks!
What is the advantage of having the lapps on both edges of one piece of fabric and trimming both edges on the other as opposed to cutting mirror images for each side?
It is slightly easier to lay it up that way. Structurally there is little difference - the overlap takes care of that.
@@easycompositestv thanks! My OCD was responsible for the question 😂🙈
@@ryansmithza I was wondering the same thing.
in which situation would you need this skill? This seems like a lot of work and stress. people enjoy making this? genuinely curious. Where would this mold be used? Equipment looks expensive too. Is it worth the purchase? does it bring back the revenue that offsets the cost? thanks
Hi Kelly, phew.. a lot to unpack there :) This process *is* pretty involved, I guess the tutorial is more aimed at serious amateurs, composites enthusiasts and businesses. Certainly you can make money out of composites fabrication but it's not really something you'd just have a go at if you don't already have an interest.
@@easycompositestv Thank you for the explanation. It's fascinating to see what other people are into and the skills involved within. One day I might get into it as well..
What an amazing video, very clear and easy to understand that complex process!
Thanks again David, glad you enjoyed this one too.
It is a shame, that I cant like the video more than onece..... I luv your things
Haha, thanks. Well, just make sure you spread the word :) We're very pleased to get each and every like!
I always wanted to know how to make this kind of tube.Now i know! Thanks ,is this also somehow possible to make when using a plug so that the inside will be smooth everywhere?I once saw a 4piece demountable tube as a plug .
Wow, that would really be a complex moulding. Anything is possible but you'd face a huge number of difficulties and challenges to make a matched tool, split mould in the way you're describing. I'm not really sure that there are too many situations where a double A-side tube mould would be sufficiently required to justify the tooling and production complexity. Probably better to finish one side by hand.
Regarding the screws in the mould, did you just tap the thread or is there a sort of time sert impregned in the material?
Inserts can generally be laminated in during manufacture or bonded in afterwards. The composite material itself is generally not suitable to hold a thread.
More great instruction! Thank you! At risk of sounding ungrateful... Any chance you will show how you made the mould for that tube? Please keep the videos coming!
Yes please I second that.
Check the bike frame video - looks to be the same process using tooling prepreg (it has an integral black gel coat. Easy Composites high temp epoxy gel coat is grey, so this is not a wet lay carbon mould.)
Hi Vinn, yes, as the others have posted it's a prepreg carbon fibre tool. The patterns (for the two halves) were CNC machined from epoxy tooling board like in th-cam.com/video/CWAvo8DIZ9s/w-d-xo.html and then the mould halves made from made from XT135 tooling prepreg like in th-cam.com/video/k4GdAuNji5g/w-d-xo.html
Great video, is it possible to do this kind of part with a wet layup or infusion?
I'm struggling to find a convenient supplier of pre preg locally (Australia), and I don't have a autoclave big enough for the parts I want to make (approx 1 metre long).
My intuition tells me I would at least need to seal the moulds together to prevent resin going between the flanges. Maybe an 'O' ring seal around the circumference of the mould or silicone the mould together and clean it off after each part??
Cheers
Wet lay up with vacuum bagging would be possible. It would be very fiddly to get right though.
Hi guys! Nice content, congrats. I have a question, which pressure needed to make a good vacuum and a temperture to cure perfectly. Thanks!
This is cured under full vacuum, so 29.9" Hg or better generally. The temperature is as per the pre-preg cure cycle.
Brilliant as usual guys
Thank you! Appreciated.
Nice video sweet.Can you carbon fiber radiator hoses.Oh is carbon fiber chemical resistant to radiator fluid to.About 200 too 230 degrees farenheit.
Generally, carbon fibre tubes, especially in their raw form like this, wouldn't make the best choice for radiator hoses. The engine cooling system is actually quite a challenging environment for a composite material; you have the combination of boiling (or near boiling) water, an operating temperature that's almost at the maximum operating temperature of the laminate anyway, and the ethylene glycol (antifreeze) all adding up to create an environment that is likely to compromise the carbon fibre. Where you really want to use carbon fibre on a coolant system I would suggest using a tank sealer coating on the inside of the tube, something like Caswell Europe's GTS75.
Easy Composites Ltd What about intake manifold?
Wow, I’ve been wondering how to do this for such a long time. This video is content gold!!
Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed it and it helped you to understand the process.
Excellent! Could you demonstrate how to make the patterns for carbon fibre tube such the one in this video?
The split-mould we used in this video is a prepreg carbon fibre tool. The patterns (for the two halves) were CNC machined from epoxy tooling board like in th-cam.com/video/CWAvo8DIZ9s/w-d-xo.html and then the mould halves made from made from XT135 carbon 10:00 28/04/2020fibre tooling prepreg like in th-cam.com/video/k4GdAuNji5g/w-d-xo.html. There are other solutions for making high temperature moulds, such as a hand layup process using high temperature epoxy tooling gelcoat, resin and paste which you can find out about in this tutorial (on our website) www.easycomposites.co.uk/#!/composites-tutorials/High-Temp-Tooling-Gelcoat-Putty-Mould
Easy Composites Ltd thank you so much! Need to get me some kit off your store.
Why would anybody dislike this? Must be the competition.
Haha, well, who knows?! Sure it's not everyone's cup-of-tea but you'd think if you clicked on it then it probably would be!?
Nice video, whats is the best commercial CNC machine (without break a bank... lol) you guys recommend to make the "templates" TIA
We used a relatively inexpensive CNC-Est machine for this part.
@@easycompositestvThank you for your reply. I'm looking for 4x8 to make big parts, any model in particular?
@@fateichmann Hi Fabricio, I'm sorry we don’t sell CNC routers so are not best placed to advise on the best machine to
use.
A great video thanks does the internal bag have to be open at both ends or is one end sufficient ? I current make RC Glider fuselage pods using a bladder but am interested in trying the vac bag method. Many thanks
Hi Nigel, it would be absolutely fine for it to be only open at one end. This would be very common for complex frame sections or the plane fuselage, as you suggested.
@@easycompositestv thank you I will try it
That is one sexy end product. Wow.
Thanks for the comment, glad you enjoyed the end result!
Dumb question here! But when you put it in the cabinet was it just a cabinet that kept vacuum and baked it? Or did it just naturally bond while under vacuum? Just qurious on what happened in the cabinet.
Hi Garrett, the cabinet was an oven with a vacuum line into it. The oven ramped to 120C which flows cures the resin (whilst still under vacuum)
Does the seam give up any strength compared to the rest of the part? Will the failure be the same if part is tested 0° or turned 90°? Just wondering if the seem orientation needs to be factored. Thanks.
The seam (and joins in carbon fibre) will inevitably influence the failure point on the component. Depending on the amount of overlap and the position and staggering of the joins though it could even be that the seam would fail last. Remember that it often wouldn't be possible to change the position or orientation of the seam if the mould is to work correctly as a split mould. Often there is only one place where the split can be.
Easy Composites Ltd It sounds like it’s a case by case situation. Appreciate the reply and the excellent videos. 👍
Can you guys also make a video about the stiffness and flexibility of carbon parts? Tensile strength, bending torsion etc. according to the number of different layers and production types. That might be very useful information for us before we start production. By the way, great quality content, thank you
Yes, we're planning this right now. You probably noticed we have our universal test rig so we can perform any kind of tests like this. We'll do something comparing different materials and forms quite soon.
@@easycompositestv Perfect, i am looking forward to your test datas
Hi
Is it nessesary put the mold with preprag in oven, or it may cure without it?
Thanks!
Pre-preg needs the heat source from the oven to cure the material.
@@easycompositestv thank you!