The End of Art: Arthur Danto's Influential Art Theory | AmorSciendi
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2022
- In this video I break down Arthur Danto's belief that Art ended in the 1960's when he saw Andy Warhol's Brillo Boxes. He approaches the theory of art through classical philosophy and uses frameworks established by Plato and Hegel, among others, to build a story of art that results in a conclusion, and thus an ending. This may give viewers new insights into the ways we can approach contemporary art.
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Works Cited
Danto, Arthur Coleman, and Lydia Goehr. After the End of Art: Contemporary Art and the Pale of History. 2014.
Danto, Arthur C. What Art Is. Yale University Press, 2014.
Danto, Arthur Coleman., and Jonathan Gilmore. The Philosophical Disenfranchisement of Art. Columbia University Press, 2005.
Danto, Arthur C. The Transfiguration of the Commonplace: a Philosophy of Art. Harvard Univ. Press, 1981.
Ferguson, John, and Plato. Plato: Republic: Book X. Bradda Books, 1978.
“Hegel's Understanding of History.” Philosophy Now: a Magazine of Ideas, philosophynow.org/issues/140/Hegels_Understanding_of_History#:~:text=Hegel's theory of dialectics constitutes,, but of 'logic'.
Hegel, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich, and Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel. Phenomenology of Spirit. Clarendon Press, 1977.
Linsenmayer, Mark, et al. “REISSUE-Ep 16: Arthur Danto on Art (w/ New Intro): The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast: A Philosophy Podcast and Blog.” The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Philosophy Blog, 7 Feb. 2022, partiallyexaminedlife.com/2022/02/07/reissue-ep16-danto-art/.
MobileReference. The Critique of Judgement: by Immanuel Kant. MobileReference.com, 2008.
Purje, Tiernan Morgan & Lauren. “An Illustrated Guide to Arthur Danto's ‘The End of Art.’”
#arttheory
#theendofart
#danto
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Great video, AmorSciendi! But, when you were talking about how art doesn't "do" anything, I couldn't help but recall Brian Eno's recent explanation of art: Art is all the things we don't have to do. For example, we need to eat, but we don't need cuisine. We need to cover ourselves, but we don't need fashion. We need shelter, but we don't need architecture. Art is one of the most basic human traits, as we have been uselessly beautifying our surroundings since we lived in caves. We don't need music, but without it some of us wouldn't consider life worth living. So, maybe (just maybe) what art "does" is to make life worth living. That's a pretty important function.
Oh, yeah, I'd just like to add: If Eno is correct about art, then it won't end until humans are extinct.
Yeah. One day I'll make a video about Brian Enos art theory. He actually has quite a lot to disagree with Danto.
C.S. Lewis has a similar commentary re: the arts (or beauty - the aesthetic) not being something with 'survival value' but rather being that which gives value to survival.
@@asimplenameichose151 and therefore, back to Eno, art won't end until humans are extinct. It's in our DNA a constant need for expansion, to sublimate the human condition, a soul's quest if you will. Thank you for your invaluable insight
Makes a lot of sense! And it makes me think of Victor Frankel's book "Man's Search for Meaning," that we are meaning making creatures. Goring off of that, art is a way to transform our suffering - inherent to the human experience - into something that is meaningful to oneself, and even, others
Correct: Art is nourishment for the spirit/soul.
wow ! I'm instantly a fan and will DEFINITELY be checking out all your other videos. Thanks SO much for showing us the direction YT should be taking with it's entire platform...deeper examinations and LESS knee-jerk reactions.
Thank you, what a great, insightful presentation, a very rare find on this platform. A gem indeed!
Thank you Amor Sciendi . . . . wow! what a fabulously clear 'gathering' of so many threads of discourse around what art is, what it does, where its been and what's here now. I read Danto's The End of Art and his What Art Is recently and was stimulated but also overwhelmed. Listening to this twice (and I will listen again) was like someone opening the door of a very stuffy room and letting a fresh spring breeze blow through. I cannot begin to express how grateful I am for the work of scholarship, compression, interlacing , capaciousness, pure scope, and brilliant communication that you've created here. You've been of true service to me (and I'm sure to many others). You are a brilliant teacher. I'll be one of your Patreon patrons as long as you're doing such powerful work.
Wow. Thank you so much for this. That is so kind. Really, thank you
Wow. Big praise there, gray. Deserving, I'd agree
[wouldn't condition my support this way, though..]
This video was so thought provoking and interesting, after watching I went immediately and joined your Patreon. Keep up the good work.
Wow thanks so much
Thank you so much for providing so much context and tying it all together, fantastic video!
Thanks for this. I learned a lot, and there's so much to unpack it's hard to know where to start. It seems to me that the focus on Plato and Hegel leaves out half the story. We overlook the Aristotelean idea that an artist does not simply imitate nature, but creates something new--that is, the work of art itself. And Plato never seems to entertain the notion that art might exist in the realm of ideas as much as anything else does.
Actual art is the embodiment of an idea. Not imitation, but the physical manifestation of an idea (idea/image/sentiment, that doesn't need explanations or conceptualizations, it directly manifests itself), so I don't see contrasts between Plato, Aristotle or whatever philosopher.
They overlook the Romantic movement of the XIXcentury which defied the rationalism of philosophers, and which gave us expressionisn, Dada and Surrealism and even psychedelic art through the 1960s, Pluralism is not the end of the story, it is just a conventional mass trend masked by pseudo intelectual efforts on philosophical art
Thank you for sharing your broad and rich understanding of art so clearly. I probably got more out of this video than the many years of art history classes through out my formal education.
Okay, mind sufficiently blown. A lot to take in, concisely and sincerely expressed, thank you.
These ideas have been swirling around in my brain, thank you Amor Science for contextualizing it so beautifully.
Thank you for your work and for sharing your knowledge and thoughts with us.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment!
This was really interesting and offered insights I hadn’t considered before. Thank you!
Wonderful, thoughtful, critical analysis. I really enjoyed! Thank you for posting! ❤
Extraordinary. Made me think so differently about the idea of depiction as conviction, only to have the idea turned on its head. Compelling ideas here, and now I want to read more of Danto. Such resonant depth of research, related with precision and clarity. I look forward to all the podcasts. Exhilarating way to have one's ideas renewed.
"The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.
All art is quite useless.”
OSCAR WILDE
Art is a great hobby and has healing effects. But yes, it's worthless in the marketplace. Almost all westerners have creative hobbies, but there's zero demand for the art pieces. Art is horrible as a business! Art is superb as a hobby!
@@mikesamovarov4054 Indeed. But the reason I posted Wilde how brilliant and simple his insight is towards art.
This was amazing. Great presentation ❤
This is great, thank you for this invaluable lesson.
Another great video, really interesting to see how things have moved on since I studied Art History back in the late 80's
Art now is mainly a hobby, and most people in the West have creative practices. It's just lost its monetary value, infinite number of offers and zero demand.
fantastic! concise and incisive without feeling like a mere synopsis. I had been thinking in terms of every medium reaching a point where it is incapable of creating anything genuinely new (baring an unforeseen technological advancement in tools/raw materials) at which point it resorts to quotation and pluralism. This video is forcing me to reevaluate. Thanks.
I appreciate the amount of work that went into this video. Clearly a labor of love. It definitely taught me a few things and gave things to think about as I pursue my own vision of what art is.
You took the words right out me mind mon
You have tied together so many of the dangling loose treads of knowledge learned over my life. This video now ranks as a one of the Top Five in my list of MUST SEE on TH-cam. Thank you for being such an effective teacher!
Wow that's a big compliment. I'm so happy you found value in it. As you can imagine this 20 minutes is the result of hours and hours of reading and writing. It's nice to hear that it added value for someone other than myself.
lol word salad nonsense
Great ! Thank you for your time and explanation.
So many thought provoking points in this video. Thank you for sharing!!
this is a good- BUT THE EMOJI PAINTING BEHIND YOU I CANT
It's so good. I have a video about it
There is something fantastically freeing but equally terrifying about the claim that art does not have boundaries anymore. Thank you for this fascinating video on the intersection between art, history and philosophy!
You're so welcome. I'm happy you found it useful
Yes, art is extremely democratic now and most people in the West have creative hobbies. Through this democratisation, art lost its monetary value and is now a hobby. Not a business though.
@@mikesamovarov4054Art is more valuable than ever. Artists are held in higher regard than ever.
Interesting video, but I find it sad that, as an artist who has lived and breathed art as a career and otherwise, that absolutely nothing I love about art is even remotely addressed in this video.
I appreciate you sharing the views of these philosophers, and your explanations of their philosophy, but nothing could be more far removed from the thoughts and life of an actual artist. In my opinion at least.
Someone who paints, someone who sketches, someone who sculpts with the aim to develop their skills, to create something beautiful and meaningful to them, to tell stories with their art and reach people with their chosen form of expression… the lens through which an actual artist views the meaning and purpose of art is removed from this discussion entirely.
Can't fit everything into every video. This was a video about theory, not practice. I have another video called "art is a process" that focuses on Michelangelo's slave sculptures. That might be more of what you're looking for.
@@AmorSciendi I’m not saying that I think you should have included more. I’m saying that, in my opinion at least, all of the philosophers and their 2 cents each all add up to a bunch of dudes trying to fit something they didn’t understand into their lines of logic.
Whether using philosophy to try to tear it down, or build it up, it all sounds like the words and wisdom of people who never actually did it or understood it.
AGREED!
Art is wordless. Your lecture is words. Perhaps Danto was the contemporary equivalent of Warhol in art history/philosophy etc.
You’re mixing or confusing the discussion of craft with the discussion of the philosophical and academic discourse. And yes, it is an opinion about the thoughts and lives of artists, to politely say the least. For centuries, an immense amount of time and energy has been given to mining the intention, motivation, composition, subject, and so on in order to channel source into the work or arrive and something that really pops or sings or disrupts, etc. The academic discourse was natural and necessary. Competitive inspiration and motivation was/is a major force in human history. If you are a gifted and engaged mathematician you must understand the pillars upon which you stand. They don’t come out of the blue running through the halls exclaiming, “Look what I have discovered!” Only to have an well studied individual look at them and say, “Dude, Pythagoras discovered that centuries ago.” But the discourse of art, int this respect, is not open like the sciences, and does seem to have run its course. Some would/could say that philosophy as a discourse is over as well, but I don’t agree. Not with integration and exponential development of info tech. Anyways, this is what is, at least for a while, “over” with art. Has been for a min. So, yes, enjoy your craft! I just took up oil painting last year. Amazing! X
Excellent Video, thanks so much for uploading!
You're welcome. Glad you liked it!
Wonderful video. I've always thought about how art movements have defineable time periods, but with the introduction of the internet, vasts amount of art movement microcosms are constantly being born, and constantly dying. The art world has become so volatile and so complex now that it's within everyone's hands.
Wow! Fascinating! This sounds like something to be concerned about...
I've no expertise in the contemporary art world. Just a love of ALL the arts (I'm a writer / poet) throughout the ages...
Of course our exponentially evolvinf IT science is going to change everything. Probably destabilize. Maybe destroy art history development as we know it.
If only the Geni of technology could ever be put back in the box or kept in check. It determines us when we should determine its development.
@@judeannethecandorchannel2153 It's not something to be concerned about, nor is it destroying art history development, simply because this exact thing was always happening. The reason why art history has defineable periods is for the same reason why we have defineable generations - these are periods of time affected by major events or ways of thinking that trend towards a certain style. Art of different capacities were still being made during the Baroque period, but because those things werent the popular or common thing, the era is defined clearly by the things that were popular, circulated, and taught. But thats a very Eurocentric view because ALSO at the same time, art around the world was being produced, and being popularized, in their respective groups/cultures/populations.
Different movements within this current internet era can still be studied, explained, defined, but at the end of the day it allows more avenues for the common person to partake in the arts as opposed to having an aristocratic sum of money to pour into materials and education required.
As far as AI goes, it shouldnt be a concern of replacing artists, but moreso that our societies arent properly set up to effectively use AI as a tool. AI is pandering and capitalizing to the masses that dont have the money or time to afford the luxury commodity that is art, and on the flipside AI is being used as a very useful tool by current artists to supplement or expedite workflow. At the end of the day, any amount of work that can be replaced or automated is detrimental in societies that say if you cant work, you starve (aka almost every "modern" human society)
Art isnt an entity, but a collection of pieces that are made by people in different periods of time, and the cycle of death and creation of art movements, regardless of the scale and pace, is only healthy for the medium overall.
In everyone's hands brilliant just as Duchamp hoped it would be and not just in the hands of the arbitors of taste and what is fashionable
Art for all by all
There are far too many people especially in the last 30 years who have got seriously off with murder Tracy Emin Damian Hurst amongst many others
Complete nonsense
Ive came across better discoveries in junk shops and in puddles in the street
Art for all not the few who take themselves far too seriously and its tedious in the extreme 😮
that’s just the thing, i’m a young person that loves art and to me art is everywhere, when you look for it and don’t look for it. Your right in terms of microcosms, and my take on it is simply that the artist no longer is bound to a single art form, but instead can be their own, with their own audience. Essentially all i’m saying is everyone has the freedom of being in their own lane, but to not be stagnant have to be able to evolve with our times, truly reflecting their growth as a person
@@rakeemkoroma2398 Spot on young person 👌
Really great video, you were able to explain complex philosophical position's in a lucid and concise way that made it accessable to a broad audience. Well done.
Thank you for your summary. I have just read this book. Now everything is on place.
Definitely thought-provoking. Thanks, and
Happy Trails
Really good video that covers so many things like art, philosophy, association with time (context), emotion, technical change (camera) and so forth. This video in a short period, rationally covers so many ideas rather well.
Really high quality survey and analysis of the issue and relevant theory
Wow! that was great! Thank you for one of the best lectures I´ve listened to in quite a while. I learned from it. Thank you.
You're welcome! Thanks for taking the time to comment
WONDERFUL TITLE / PREMISE.
I'LL WATCH THIS ASAP.
I've never seen this channel before‼️
Liked and Subscribed 🙋🏼♀️❤️🙋🏼♀️💜🙋🏼♀️❤️🙋🏼♀️
so much knowledge in a single video i love itttt
So glad I found this!
excellent. thank you for thr review and the logic of Danto
many thanks/ glad to have found this talk
Thanks for taking the time to say so
thank toy for the interesting video. in some point i had to slow it down so i can keep up with all the ideas...
Thanks for this really good reflection.
I haven't heard of 'retinal art' before, but it perfectly encapsulates what I like about art (and recontextualises my undying love for art nouveau). I appreciate the philosophy input, but I'll stick to my pretty paintings, sculptures and furniture ;)
Thank you so much for this video, even if the conclusions I reach are so different from yours
Excellent synthesis and presentation, trying to be as fair as the format allows to both philosophy & art, very informative and refreshing, much appreciated kind Sir.
Thanks for leaving this comment. Warms my heart
Thought provoking ideas about art which I will have see again and again. One of the ideas that came to my mind is that lots of contemporary art I see to comes with, or requires a commentary by the artist or or an art critic, to explain to the viewer what the resulting painting or sculpture is about or means. There is a part of me that is feels, or believes, or questions that if an art work needs an explanation to understand, or comprehend, or appreciate it, then the artistic endeavor is more of a ‘trick” or hoax. Now I will begin to question that idea or criticism. Thank you.
In a nutshell: Danto argued that art has historically been defined by its ability to represent or embody certain aesthetic qualities, and it has gone through various stages and movements throughout history. However, with the advent of modern art and the rejection of traditional aesthetics, Danto claimed that art had reached a point where there were no longer any essential criteria or boundaries that could define what is or is not art.
Its a reflecton . Always has been. If there's some person who has been moved by something created by someone its artistic. Its magical. Because art isn't just visual. Its our culture.
@@fixsationon7244You’re talking about one object or one experience. Danto is talking about art and its history in general. He’s not saying that nothing can be art. He’s saying the opposite: anything and everything can be art, and if anything can be art then there is no more story, no more history of what art is, or can be.
Clear, educational and delightful!
This is just brilliant!
Thanks James!
You're easily impressed.
@@grosbeak6130 Nah. Might be you have a tendency to be easily unimpressed, gros. Just saying.. Cheers
Just an outstanding video that earned you at least one Patreon sponsor, eager to check out your other videos.
Sounds like Danto had an experience with the Brillo boxes like the one I had in Marfa Texas many years ago. Donald Judd has a bunch of stuff down there, and I don't know about now, but at that time there was a community of Minimalist and Post-Minimalist, whatever the difference is, artists exhibiting all over this little town, true believers far from New York and dreams of winning the big prize. I was confronted with art that was so close to nothing, but that also did have some sort of visual appeal, not just conceptual...haven't stopped thinking about it since. It's a wonderful thing when art actually startles your eyes open.
I do wonder from your description what Danto thought Warhol had added, why he didn't think art stopped with Duchamp. Maybe because it wasn't Duchamp who startled him that day.
I have always wanted to visit Marfa. The description of Judd's work in Ben Lehner's novel 10:04 is inspiring. Some of the best art writing I've ever seen. My first answer to you question about Duchamp and Warhol is, as is my usual, I don't know. My second answer is that the difference is that Duchamp's ready made's often changed the object in some way (hang the shovel from the ceiling, turn the urinal on its side, put the bike wheel on the stool). He takes something that already exists and changes the context within which you're seeing it. Warhol saw the brillo boxes and then recreated them in his "Factory". So he's actually trying to create optical equivalence with the production, and making the clear link between daily experience and artistic production. I hope that makes some sense. Thank you so much for the Patreonage, and I'm sorry this comment took so long. I was traveling and didn't want to respond on my phone.
That artist Bobby Peru, he been to Marfa, exhibited all over that town...
Great talk… made me Think - and I love that. Now I need to explore ✌🏼
Taurus with thesaurus...
I’m so glad I listened to this throughout. I found myself strongly disputing where I thought this was going initially, but it’s marvellously tied up at the end . Thank you. I absolutely agree that the schism comes from the chemical plate process, and the birth of photography. Hockney was done some invaluable exploration in this field I think. So I found myself grasping for a quote from Nietzsche at the start, which admittedly may not be as purposeful as I first thought, but I still think it demonstrates in some regard the self actualisation that art has undergone - “Had we not approved of the arts and invented this type of cult of the untrue. The insight into general truth and mendacity that is not given to us by science. The insight into delusion and error as a condition of cognitive and sensate existence, it would be utterly unbearable. Honesty would lead to nausea and suicide. But now our honesty has a counter force that helps us avoid such consequences. Art has the goodwill to appearance, as an aesthetic phenomenon its existence is still bearable to us. And art furnishes us with the eye and hand, and above all, the good conscience to be able to make such a phenomenon of ourselves “
Thanks for leaving this. I hope you found it useful/interesting enough to check out some of my other videos.
I really enjoyed this video. Thanks!
Great video. I am an artist, I am not dead. Have you read the book, Art and Physics: Parallel Visions in Space, Time and Light by Leonard Shlain? It is about how artist see it first then science follows, ie. first Giotto then Galileo. Its a great read about the parallel developments of Art and Physics. Thank You!
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Yes, have read all of these books leonard Shlain is amazing. Enjoyed this video as well.
This is more evidence that art is dead. If art was a vigorous and meaningful discipline, it wouldn’t need a book about how if you squint a little it’s kinda like physics, a real living and powerful discipline.
@@HkFinn83horrible take lmao
Technology precedes art in society. Artists just suffer from narcisism, they are just the elites that futz around playing with new medias. First you need the new medium! Then you can use the new media to express different ideas - Resulting artifacts just contain the novel thinking that follows from new technologies.
Thank you for this vidéo ! It is liberating . I am not crazy to enjoy both ancient art and modern art in very different ways 😊
Great vid my dude. I'd love to see a video where you expand on the thoughts you close with and investigate where the holes in the approach is. As an artist I'm deeply concerned with all of this!
Well done, Amor. Instant subscriber.
Hey! You taught at Ross school! Fascinating video, gave me a lot of pause. Thank you.
I did. What's up Sergei. You still making metal sculptures? Your senior project was legendary
Very enlightening, thanks
Thank you very much for this outstanding lecture
Thank you for taking the time to write this comment. It means a lot to me.
Nice video on describing Danto's book and influence. The narrator here reflects greatly on Danto's book, especially within the philosophical viewpoints.
I enjoy reading Arthur C Danto's After the End of Art, if only that I need to open to a random page every few days, and read his excellent art and related philosophy vernacular. I keep a glossy soft cover copy with me at all times, in my business valise, that a lady friend gave me some years ago. She had many handwritten footnotes on the pages.
Also as a somewhat accomplished artist in the technical field of scientific and astronomy art, which my works have been published by NASA many times, I can't help but to think of a phrase I saw some years ago in the local newspapers during a big art event here in Portland Oregon.
Art is not a product, it's a process.
I find many people discussing it as only in the post process, as only a product, to either sell or critique.
I see very few artists or commenters here, that are perhaps not artists, as to why they may only speak of art as if only a completed project, but very few mention the process of producing art.
thanks, this video really with my presentation in philosophy!
So glad I could help
Excellent! So much to ruminate on here…
Great video great explanations!
Extremely clearly explained.
You never hear about “the end of sports” or the “the end of business”, or the “end of audio-visual storytelling”….just art.
god is dead. art is dead. rock and roll is dead. I have heard of science dying once AI is self aware. Sports is over. Betting and wall street killed it long ago. I might not hit the ears of everyone but every profession has a naysayer in the back of the room stating such things under their breath.
Is the theatre really dead?
@@johnnyxmusic Only art! Apparently
We did hear about "The end of history" a few years back. But the idea looks pretty stupid now.
@@joebeamishdude like half of those things are art
good video ... educational ... the fact that we have both artists as well as philosophers (and politicians etc) trying to 'make an impact' on other people's lives is a good thing no matter what ... but when one group tries to *totally* discredit another group, then we certainly have serious problems there that particular group(s) better deal with ASAP before it's too late, or disasters could (and have) happen(ed) as history is the best witness to that ...
Excellent summary and analysis. The fact that you closed with a viewpoint is also appreciated. Posters don't always do that. So thanks. That said, a few questions:
1. You say philosophers "relegated" art to expression and emotion. Is emotion also a form of truth inquiry? Can truth only be found or discovered by the application of reason, not intuition? Can something "feel true", and be true, even if one cannot explain it logically? To further this, can a full grasp of a given truth be reached with reason only, absent a feeling of that truth?
2. Art had no reason or utility. This is the narrative philosophers tried to dump art into, unsuccessfully you argue, by stating that it was impotent. But before we get to your conclusion, which argues, correctly one could say, that philosophers failed in this nefarious attempt. Does emotion have a role in the utility or use of an idea or happening or person even? What moves a person to act? Is it not feeling? Reason can and perhaps should provide the structure within which an action is taken, a movement made. But is it not feeling that provides the fuel for that action? Are they not like dance partners, switching leads depending on the time and place of the dance, but dancing most cohesively and beautifully when they are joint/move as one?
3. Perceptual equivalence: how do we know what something really is, is it by its closest or most accurate physical depiction whether in repose or movement? Or is it by searching for a glimpse into its inherent or intrinsic qualities or values? Its nature? The Portrait of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde, for example, examines this. What was the most accurate depiction of Dorian Gray, according to that tale. In other words, does art posses in addition to its "mimetic properties" as you put it, revelatory potential?
4. Pluralism. If this is where art, or at least the progression of Western art (paintings and sculpting mostly, as you point out, but perhaps even other forms of art like music and literature, as I think you imply), is this not to suggest that in the overarching debate about where Western art is progressing toward, Friedrich Nietzsche has won over Friedrich Hegel? For rather than Hegel's historical dialogues between different ages & cultures, where Western art appears to have ended at is Nietzsche's Perspectivism. The view that there is no one direction in art seems to draw from Nietzsche's there is no absolute view of truth, all viewing is attached to some perspective. So did he seed contemporary art?
Once again, this is an excellent summary and analysis. Thanks for making and sharing it. I have subscribed.
thought provoking video Thank you.
you are just brilliant! thank you, fantastic
Thank you
Lovely stuff. Cheers.
Solid analysis, congrats
Great work.
Nice work. ❤
After watching this very well done video and chewing on the content for while.... philosophy is like dating someone long distance online and playing head games for your whole life and sitting in shadows trying to understand shadows. Art feels like love, joy, peace, sunshine, a happy marriage, children playing, loving pets, a garden in the backyard, birds singing, and sparkles on crystal clear water. I don't think they mix well without it being a mental tail chase of depression and anxiety and mania that I just can't waste time on or I'll create nothing for no one and end up in a hospital hahahaha. Thanks for the video! I learned a lot as I overthought my overthinking that was overthinking what I overthought... until I couldn't think anymore and just decided to love
If art feels like that to you, how do you rank Goya's Black Paintings, for starters?
@@danieldonaldson8634 Well, I can't speak for Goya about his art. I was just speaking for myself.
Beautiful way of speaking, thanks.
This video and your channel are amazing subscribed
Any thoughts on Hegel’s view of art particularly the idea of the zeitgeist or spirit of the times seems similar to Danto
Art is the ACT of creation in which you enjoy the creation thereof in the present moment. What becomes of the work afterwards is immaterial.
Yes, art is a fantastic hobby!
Thank you!!!
Loved it. Subscribed.
Not sure agree with Danto, but I do agree to the extent of your final comments: pluralist, stimulating and provoking thought - yes; but having ended in philosophy... apples and oranges (says metaphysicist) Even had a bit of a problem understanding how he gets to that conclusion, the Hegel-Warhol thingy.. I'm afraid seems a bit contrived (to me), but actually loved the rest of his argument - and yours! Thanks for that. Cheers.
A rhyme of mine.
Time defines the rhyme
From the macabre to the sublime
Time, an infinite line
Through verse, defined.
One issue I had during the majority of the opening was your varying use of the word 'art' to mean either visual art or art as a general concept. For example, Plato may have opined that 'art' is a reflection of a reflection, as you put it... but he also thought (like Confucius) that music shaped the fabric of society and he had all kinds of opinions about the exact musical rules that should be followed to promote certain emotions and values in the minds of the general population.
When you bring poetry and jazz into the mix and re-emphasise how certain philosophers had no time for 'art', I legitimately do not know whether you are referring to visual art (sculpting, painting) or everything.
Apart from that, I very much enjoyed this. Thanks very much.
When Sciendi or anyone says the word art I don't just think of one kind of art like just visual. Unless they specify.
I think of all art, such as music or video games too.
Thanks for engaging thoughtfully with the essay. Near the end I address how Danto's explanation really only deals with visual art, and even more specifically, only painting. Do you have any videos that deal with these kinds of sweeping art theoretical concepts that focus on music? I was thinking of doing an episode on Susanne Langer's philosophy of art which would deal much more with music.
Thank you for this, this is art ❤
I paint, and acquired a degree from an art school thirty years ago. Though I do, in fact, read and enjoy philosophy, it has nothing directly to do with my painting, and the remark that conceptual art "looks like philosophy" made me smile. This touches upon a central criticism of the contemporary "art world", that it's easy to mimic process or content by being inscrutable. Of note here, the word "like", which can be a synonym for "pretension". Secondly, though Picasso couldn't stop Franco, nor did anyone else, so why pick on art? Thirdly, I've always wondered why painters have to justify their work, while poets and musical composers are not only allowed to engage in, but are even celebrated for their capacity to obtain lyrical sophistication. When I was in school, the word "beauty" was banned, and the worst pejorative imaginable was "decorative", which of course rendered painting, per se, somewhat difficult. I eventually overcame my naïveté by realising that everything in this world is a business, and the "conceptual" was the ideal golden vessel for reification, richly rewarding. What exactly is Jeff Koon's talent, what his contribution to human society?
You make valid comments, robert. I agree with most of them completely. In summary a bit bleak and cynical, though, don't you think. Where's the facet of celebration of art. Of Life..? Just asking..
@@BailelaVida It's a deeply meaningful activity for me. Society is cynical, not me.
How much money did you make selling your original art pieces?
Beauty will again!
very good. very clear
Well put.
Good stuff thank you!
Great video!
Excellent video.
As a contemporary artist myself this video very concisely the argument I have against most “retinal art” in how it is a product and not an artwork
Very interesting indeed. I am an artist as well. It is giving me things to think about and new reasons create.
How much $ did you make selling your original art pieces? Art is a great hobby, but selling is practically impossible. Most are stuck being teachers, not actual artists.
I was surprised the end of art was not attributed to Duchamp in full by purposely cutting out the heart of traditional visual aesthetics, an enduring checkmate.
The end of art through dada art was not the real end of that narration, it may had been the end for the average american art critic of the mid 20th century but ironically the 60s was the explosion of psychedelia and mind expansion experience which has yet to be researched and it may well be the new underground within the pluralism of today
@@victormorgado5318 The remark was about Arthur Danto's inability to understand what Duchamp had done to art not with Cubism or Dada but through Conceptual Art not a focus on visual aesthetics but art based on ideas. This was a revengeful thrust against the advance of Western art. Now anyone could think of themselves as artists even businessmen with substantial revenue could join in the fun, It is still a game for the elite. As Fran Lebowitz remarked today the applause is not for the artist but for the price a work achieved. I often wondered at the title In Advance of the Broken Arm. If you can't sculpt, draw or paint due to whatever limitation; you can declare it's art because I am an artist. Democratic perhaps but in very few examples of achievement. On a positive note I hope Cy Twombly's stature in Art History becomes as remarkable as his works.
Its an UPSIDE DOWN urinal, BTW... Big difference.
@@k.t.5405 The Society's board rejected Fountain in 1917. Duchamp a member of the board quit as a result of their conservative constraints. However, this readymade plus others manage to change the direction of art while taking a Pi**. Correction: The urinal is mounted on the wall with the opening at the top, So as an artwork it's sitting on its flat side. Signed R. Mutt for the Mott company who designed it
@@asunder6797 "as an artwork it's sitting on its flat side" thats what I said....its an UPSIDE DOWN urinal. You gauge the ENORMOUS interpretive implications.
Complimenti, bravissimo. Un esposizione molto attinente ( ed utile) al tema trattato.
The book to check out is Elie Faure's History of Art
I totally agree with the.complete 25:20 absence of value atributed to technique and meaning and mystery which are the true components or lasting art
That was incredible
Really useful thanks, I wonder how known Luhmann's Art as a Social System is in Art Theory
Interesting play on words. The end of art. To what ends will it go? No end is final. Art marches on, signifying whatever the artist and audiences want to signify. We make it all up.
Well, this is as good as it gets in youtube.
I like many of the things you say. Painting sculpture music and more can be art. Even a sound or the uncarved block of wood. Just because I can not see 'it' as art does not make it so. Thankfully! I have gone back years later to find amazing surprises. Feels like a connection too... Everything for just a moment... Sometimes. Amazing!!!
Yes, art is a nice hobby.
@@mikesamovarov4054 The art is just fine, just fine you see... What piece of furniture should it go by? Oh dear!
Guess its a moment in history where most of the basic conceivable ideas have already been elaborated and explored. The actual trend shifted to shock, provoke, imply, insinuate and over all pitch an idea that trump the product itself. I think it’s quite a mirror of the marketing era we are living in. If art is philosophy and viceversa, the distinction between the two should be removed, same goes for their respective labels: if art is something pushing people to think about it, all the creative works of any possible sort should be labelled as art:writing, acting, singing etccc...and they should all end up in the same place, ergo museum would become a collective collection o fa typing that may inspire people to think. Just my two bits worth on it. Very Nice video, truly well thought and explained, thanks for sharing it
What a great discussion
Thanks