@@m0skit0that’s incorrect. The amount of races is irrelevant for achieving 9 in a row except the season has only 8 races or less. It depends on your hardware and the competitors.
@@KTLam Absolutely not irrelevant. Usually the car is not the same. The rules are (usually) not the same. The other cars are not the same. And on top of that, there's a stopping interval between seasons which of course affects regularity.
So it's all down to the car ? Is that right? Newey designed the best car and driver just has to turn break and go faster ?? So when mercedes were winning everything, it was just the car also ? A d Schumacher in the ferrari was just the car ?
@@paulthomson9014 explain. No driver would ever win without a good car, most of the time in the past 30 years it's been one of neweys cars that won, the driver has never mattered more then the car and the driver never will
Vettel already spoke in an interview in Red Bull's Hangar, that he thinks Max is an absolute master of his craft. Pulling of moves and actions, which left Seb in awe and aknowledging he wouldn't be able to do that - and certainly not within that fraction of a moment where the opportunity arose. Nuff said...
See what i am gonna right what seb did in 2012 max couldn't do it with 100 years of experience seb did the impossible in 2010 and 2012 max has the best car by 1 second with 0 competition is this your goat?
@@snowholeoutdoors1769 2nd lemme tell again what seb did in 2010 on how he won the wdc with that team is impressive 2nd he did an epic comeback in 2012 with 2nd car 3rd finished 2nd in 2009 with a 1.5 slower car and 4th he built the team your 2 time paper carstappen has now without him rb would be a midfielder no matter what remember my sentence
The similarities are crazy between the two, both were rb academy drivers, took the record for youngest winner, beat Lewis Hamilton in Abu Dhabi for their first championship (I know in 2010 there where multiple title contenders but Lewis was one of them) got criticized for the way they treated their teammates (ex:multi-21 for seb and Brazil 2022 for Max) a Ferrari was the main challenger for one of their championships and layed down an absolutely dominant season (with Max perhaps also breaking the wins in a row record just like seb did in 2013)
I find it both laughable and nonsensical to say only Lewis Hamilton was Max's only closest opposition, because Max won 10 races and Lewis winning 8 races, but Lewis only had 5 wins until he took his last engine, which was so fast that it won the next 3 races easily and would of won the 4th and last race if it wasn't for a safety car. On the other side, you had Max, who didn't have a spare brand new engine like Lewis had, and the reason for that is because Lewis took Max clean out of the race at Silverstone and sent him into the wall at 185mph and ruined that engine. So Lewis was at fault for the incident and penalised for it, but he still won the race and gained 25points over Max and gained an extra engine too. Each driver is allowed 3 engines per season, roughly working out at 7 races per engine, but Max had to do 11 races with each engine or get a 5 place grid penalty and put him behind Lewis on track. It was clear to see that the Mercedes of Lewis with the brand new engine was by far quicker than every other car on track, including the sister Mercedes car. So in my opinion, if Lewis hadn't of taken Max out of the race at Silverstone, he would either of won, as he was in the lead at the time, or he would of finished 2nd and giving him 18 points and still have 3 engines and that would of made the 5 races very different, but even if Lewis did still win them races, the 25points for winning or the 18 points for coming 2nd at Silverstone, would of been enough either way for Max to win the title even by finishing 2nd in the last race. So people who say he didn't deserve it, are just ignorant or biased towards Lewis but either way, Max had nothing to do with the decision-making off track, he was only in control of what happened with him and his car on the track, and that is certainly NOT CHEATING!
But the main problem for F1 and Redbull has always been that annoying bloody black fella because he always knows a bit too much how to drive better than the rest of the other ordinary drivers hence why they had to stop him surpassing Schumachers joint Record of 7X or it would of been the bloody black fella making it look easy again
@@ju1cyjon3s31 🤣😂riccardo only beat vettel due to him wanting to leave rb and the car being completely off his style which is a cause of the hybrid era if that didn’t happen riccardo would get demolished like his fellow Australian Webber
@ju1cyjon3s31 where is Riccardo now? Beat by Vettel in a car inferior to McLaren(AM). How did Russel beat hamilton? We just can't go out and say Russel is superior to hamilton. It's just that turbo hybrid regulations that put redbull on a back foot that it took redbull nearly 6 years to get back to top. They had no idea, built a car that is no way good for their lead driver, Riccardo is just lucky that car suited him. Give a loose rear end car to kimi, hamilton, both will fail to score good. It's just that car didn't suit Vettel and suited Riccardo better. If we give them both equal machinery of their liking, most of the drivers and pandits in f1 will outright pick Vettel to beat Riccardo. Vettel is not Alonso, Vettel had his limitations, in fact Alonso is all altogether different animal.
@@jouri20 alonso was definitely in his prime and Hamilton was far better than he is now also rosberg was nearing his prime and raikonnen wasn’t far of his too
Verstappen and Vettel are obviously extremely similar in raw qualifying pace, but Vettel is a league above Verstappen on race pace. Everyone who’s worked with those two said similar things, albeit Verstappen had the raw speed and Vettel had the setup and engineering prowess.
@@sandalphoncpu this feels like a big thumbsuck to prove some point. I don't think Max is the type of driver who was well liked by fans in the beginning, even now it feels like something special is lacking is his character. That being said, if you look at F1 objectively and have the priviledge of having watched the sport for the last 20 years through eras of the modern day greats like Schumi, Alonso and Vettel its almost apparent that Max really is the best amongst them all. Appart from Alonso, who will always think he is the very best to grace the sport, all of the others will most probably agree that Max edges out everyone else.
@@Kevvi-xp4be i don’t know where you’re going with this but like I said; I’m paraphrasing what the RB guys said on podcasts and shows. I’d rather take opinions from people who actually worked with them than someone who merely watched F1
@@sammoore3687 that’s the same thing as saying Alonso is washed because he hasn’t won a race since 2013. You’re obviously a type of new fan who looks at stats and thought that tells the whole story
ปีที่แล้ว +154
Vettel is the greatest in stats, Verstappen the greatest in speed.
Season 2023 is coming to a close. Max literally broke almost all records with the most impressive of the winning percentage. He did also win 10 in a row and currently is again on a winning streak. He is already in 50+ wins and that all at age 26. That is insane. If he does win the title in 2024. This debate will be over.
I understand with Lewis and Schumacher being goats they accomplished everything in F1, they are the goats not because of 7 world championships but because they won with 2 different constructors. Same with alian prost and Nikki lauda they are in the goat conversation as well. Verstapan and vettle both have won because of red bull dominance nothing more let's be honest. Let him win one more with other constructor I will give to u that verstapan is also goat material.
@@ashwinkumarkrhegde3891 Haha, Verstappen is going to be the goat. Apart from Senna, nobody is as talented as he is. age 17 in Formula 1 (Two 4th places in an Alpha Tauri, I think that is more impressive than winning a gp in a championship winning car) age 18 First GP win. So many briliant moments... Breaking all the records...
Verstappen getting outqualified is also in the carsetups/designs on the grid: Especially Ferrari. Ferrari made a car that was great in 1 lap, but with horrendous cardeg. Whilst Verstappen always preferred Sunday-focused carsetup, knowing he can get passed any competition on Sundays if he sacrifices a bit of the 1-lap pace on the Saturday.
@@dizkicipanas23but 2023 was a level of domination that has never been seen before. Verstappen will go down as the goat of f1 when all is said and done.
@DrBased123 rubbish! Hes not even the goat of this generation. Can't go wheel to wheel without crashing, won't even let drivers unlap themselves without going aggressive. He's a donut in the fastest car. Petulant.
@@alangunningham5667 Just because he had the fastest car, doesn't mean he doesn't have the "extra skill" look now he is still very competitive whilst McLaren arguably having the 'fastest car' right now. Winning 3 of the 4 races after Miami and before Austria. Did you watch F1 during 2015 onwards? I've seen his debut in F1 and during the 2016 Brazilian GP, he is just a monster in the rain.
@@alfonsogabriellabong3340 going back to the comment rather than sticking a flag up Max's bum....the records so far haven't been significant ..that doesn't mean he isn't a good driver, he certainly is
@@alangunningham5667 Weren't significant? Bro, he won 19 out of the 22 races that's significant. also 10 consecutive wins out performing his teammate by a large margin. And the points tally up to a new record, he technically won the constructors championship alone in 2023. It's a massive understatement on what you just said that he doesn't have the "extra skill" and didn't need the "extra skill" for the records he broke and look now he got 9 consecutive poles nearly breaking Senna's record they're tied with pole right now.
Are you dumb? Have you seen the difference in teammates the two have had? Those qualifying percentages take on a completely different meaning when you consider Seb was up against Webber, Kimi and Ricciardo. Max spent most of his career vs floundering teammates like Gasly, Albon and Checo. Not to mention, Seb also raced for much longer lmao, childish take
Vettel! He had a lot more competition in 2010 and 2012. The rb6 was quick in qualifying but in the mix in the race. It was the slowest among the Mclaren and Ferrari in straight line. Different to nowadays redbull which is the absolute best. Max won in 2021 in a very controversial way! Redbull was an inexperienced team compared to today!
I think Max is the bigger one because of the context of his first title... going up against probably the greatest driver ever after years of dominance and beat him! No challenge will be bigger to Verstappen then his first title... from now on, i think he only loses if Ferrari or Mercedes develop a better car than Red Bull.
So did vettel and vettels wins were even more impressive because he was literally fighting against the greatest primes at that time Kimi, Jenson, lewis and Alonso who was on fire. Max had to fight against just one person which was lewis. So no max is amazing but is not better than vettel, vettel was a monster
We all know that the ´21 title was fixed. Nothing we can do about. If Max wins a WDC with another team he will be GOAT material. He 'just' needs 8 titles.
For a new'ish channel (okay, a new channel 😉), you sure do make some well informed high quality videos. Keep the videos coming and I'll stay *Subscribed* 👏👏👏
Couple of points here. The Suzuka gap Max had is even more impressive when you consider that they only did about half a race because of all the rain. He basically pulled a gap of about a second a lap in the rain, the gap would have been almost double had the full race been ran. Besides that, i think Max is very much better than Vettel ever was. Max is better at wheel-to-wheel and has better racecraft than Vettel ever did. Max has won from various positions on the grid, where Vettel has only won when he started from the first three positions. Since the race is more of a marathon, where qualifying is more of a sprint, i'd say Max is the better racer. In the race you need to not only be fast, also very consistent with lap times, have to do strategy and pit stops etc., where qualifying is just be fast, which is a lot simpler when you ask me (though not necessarily easy, mind you). Max is fast as well as consistent and can basically make any strategy (except for maybe the most outlandish, though they might just try that once) work. Add to that Max had to contend with a ferrari that was clearly a better qualifying car than a race car, where the RB is the very opposite. All in all, it adds up to Max being better than Vettel ever was. Not to mention Vettel wasn't able to do much at ferrari, so he isn't all that ruthless. Max would go to ferrari and either do the same as Schumacher did or destroy that entire team from within. He is ruthless enough not to take any shit from them whatsoever. Vettel was far more impressed and in awe of finally getting to drive for the same team as his hero did, that took a lot of his edge away from him. Max does not have that problem.
Incorrect: Schumacher won 13/18 in 2004 and 11/17 in 2002. However, arguably his 2002 campaign was the superior, as the 17/17 podiums finishes means a staggering 100% percentage that's mathematically unsurpassable.
Verstappen has secured perfect 10 in 2023 and Max's fight in 2021 was much better than any Sebastian championship. We have to see records also. Max is the youngest driver to score points and win a race. Whereas Seb is the youngest driver to win a world championship. He has already won 2023 which bags him with 3 championships and more will chances will come. According to me Max is the better one but got to admit that the 2012 season was also a blockbuster in which Vettel won . Being a max fan I admit Seb will always remain a legend of the sport.
Vettel is Great and one of my all time favorites but Max is on par with Schumacher and Senna. If he doesn't retire ealry in his career he'll break all the rules
Dutch F1 fan here. I have to admit you have good points. Vettel is an absolute beast of a driver and before Max entered the scene, I was actually a Vettel fan. I do think these comparisons are hard to make. There are so many variables to take into consideration that it is near impossible to make a decent comparison. But, both Max and Seb are amazing drivers and definitely the best of the best. I can't even choose a winner between both of them to be honest. Love them both.
Verstappen right now would have beaten Button in 2009. But Verstappen in his earlier years would have done even worse than Seb did. He'd likely have beaten Webber, but he would've finished behind Button and even Rubens in the championship. Verstappen in his early years was known as Crashstappen for a reason, you know, so I think he'd have done even worse than Seb did, if we assume he's in his third year in F1, like Seb was back in 2009.
@@mrsheev9131 I know you are trying to be fair but i dont think thats fair either because Vettel raced in other open wheel formula racing cars for 4 years before he was in F1 while it was only 1 year for Max. Max jumped from karting to F1 so fast that he had to gain that experience in an F1 car for his first few years while Vettel and every(almost?) other driver already had years of experience in an open wheel formula car. So i dont think you can compare Max's third year in F1 with Vettel's third year in F1.
@@mrsheev9131 I personally think Max is the better driver, but many people are blinded by nostalgia. Sebastian was great at driving that particular car, but once the regulations changed he was beaten by every single teammate and seemed to struggle a lot. Sebastian has a championship contending car for 6 seasons (arguably 7) while this is only Max’s 3rd year with a championship contending car.
@@mrsheev9131only toxic clowns use namecalling like “crashtappen” and no Max has not crashed more than other drivers, look at Lewis from 2007-2011 for instance
The simple answer is, as great as Seb was, during his dominating years Webber was very close to him and often beat him, while once Max matured a bit, he was simply unbeatable by any teammate. Lewis was beaten by Nico and needed a spineless #2 like Bottas (who still managed to beat him sometimes) to secure his string of WDCs. As I write this, Max just won at Spa lapping between 1 and 2 seconds faster than anyone else, after starting 6th because of a gearbox replacement penalty. Neither Seb nor Lewis ever achieved that level of superiority.
Max doesn't have a good enough team mate ATM. Perez has been brought in for the constructors. I seem to recall Riccardo beating him from time to time when he was at the team 🤔
@@samcook6593 Riccardo beat an 18 and 19 year old Max once max matured he started beating Riccardo which ended with Riccardo being forced out the team
I personally think Max is the better driver, but many people are blinded by nostalgia. Sebastian was great at driving that particular car, but once the regulations changed he was beaten by every single teammate and seemed to struggle a lot. Sebastian has a championship contending car for 6 seasons (arguably 7) while this is only Max’s 3rd year with a championship contending car.
7 seasons? Yeah, he had a championship contending car at Red Bull in those 4 years but at Ferrari, the only time he had a real competitive car was 2018. Maybe you think the 2017 car was competitive, but it wasn't at the same level of Mercedes (2017 Belgian gp showed this) and the 2019 car was build following Leclerc's driving style. That also happened in 2020.
Not to say max has had it easy but when vettel won titles it was against 6 other world champions at the pinacle of F1. When max won it in 2021 it was insane but the rest of them have come from others mistakes and a car on steroids.
Max will be top 3 greatest once he is done. Myabe even the greastest who knows. Same cannot be said about Vettel. Great guy but nowhere close to Max Lewis Schumi.
Vettel 013 all day idc. And he’s better than the Dutch (for now) unless he comes back. Vettel was so good ppl were bored n started booing him but where was the boos when Hamilton was Dominating
Massive Seb fan here since his RB days but gotta admit Max is a generational talent. I consider Michael, Alonso and Verstappen above the rest. Never saw Senna so can’t comment.
So was Sebastian he went on being the youngest world champion ever and I doubt anyone could break that record let's not forget vettel one his first championship before Drs was even a thing Sebastian was really a sensational driver and definitely in the top five
The answer's quite obviously Verstappen Vettel after winning his 4th title got beaten by Ricciardo in his first year at RB🤷♂ Max since coming to RB in 2016 never showed any signs of drop-off in his career yet and has done literally everything Vettel did for 6 years Max won 10 races & 40 podiums with a car not able to compete for a title (2016-20), Vettel won 0 races in 2014 and only scored 3 podiums
I believe max have speed but less competitive gird then Vettel have .... remember in 2012 6 greater driver on grid ..... And last race of 2012 ... Vettel pull WC from freando.. with damage car
In 2012 Alonso with a garbage Ferrari would have made an historical event winning with that car … but Vettel gave everything in Brasil, he experienced the worst possible scenario in first lap but made the greatest recovery
Wasn't Vettel the guy who was driven to crap by this Australian guy called Daniel Ricciardo? Funny enough that same Australian also got the fastest lap time in "F1 star in a reasonably priced car" (even before Lewis). Ergo, that Danny Ric seems very fast.....and got smoked by.... I'll let you figure this out. If course everyone must have their own opinion, but seriously? Oh well...
For now I think Seb is definitely better than Verstappen, however if you just let Verstappen cook few more seasons he might just become better than Seb, and i kinda feel (with how he drives, thinks and thrives) that Verstappen will become 7 times or perhaps more.
Both, but different eras. All of these comparisons are contrived. Different eras, different cars, etc. Put either in the other’s car would prove little. Both hard cars based on their individual driving styles.
I think all the Seb fans are a littlebit fan of Verstappen aswell. Is verry posible. But who the better driver is, between Vettel & Verstappen. Then my answer gona be Max Verstappen. For all who read this. .. who is the better one? Sebastian or Max??
You are arguing simultaneously that: 1. When Verstappen qualified on top it was because of the car 2. When Verstappen didn't qualify on top it was because of the driver That's patently absurd. Verstappen outqualified Perez 18 to 4 and held the biggest pace difference between teammates after Albon and Latifi. In 2022 Ferrari had the quicker car before the summer break. Verstappen only took a lead in the championship because of his consistency and because Ferrari and Leclerc kept making errors. Also the notion that the competition was tougher in 2013 is just silly. Button was in a McLaren that was just a midfield car. Hamilton was in a Mercedes that wasn't any more competitive than the Mercedes of 2022. And if we are just going to name a bunch of skilled drivers: the grid from 2022 had Alonso, Leclerc, Hamilton, Russell, Sainz, Vettel, Norris and Verstappen. Do you really want to pretend that the newer generation of drivers is somehow inferior? You're not making an argument. You're just making assertions.
Once this season is finished compare Max’s season to Vettel’s and it will be a crazy difference. I think max will get 17-18 wins this season, he has already won by 30+ seconds multiple times and is not looking like slowing down considering he just won Hungry with 33 seconds to spare and in Austria pitted at the end last lap to go for fastest lap and still won. He is crazy dominant this season and I think once it is all said and done it will easily be the most dominant season ever seen in a Redbull
Vettel himself has stated that Verstappen was doing things that he wasn't capable of. I think a better comparison is the fact that Verstappen was able to beat Hamilton in 2021 in an inferior car, where Vettel failed in 2017 and 2018 in a similar inferior car. I think it is pretty obvious that Verstappen is the more consistent driver. And you can't really separate Vettlel 2013 from Vettel 2014 - 2022. It just reflects on how dominant Vettels car actually was in 2013.
@@arijankolic8331 Past 50 races Verstappen has made only 1 significant unforced error (Singapore 2022). There is no driver as consistent as Verstappen at the moment and probably ever at any point in the history of the sport. He currently has 92% of the maximum number of points available this season over 9 races and 2 sprint races. What exactly am I lying about? I don't even know why I bother. You're just another random fool who makes claims without providing any evidence. Stupid people should not spread their stupidity, Unfortunately social media gives people like you too much of a platform to do so.
Bro really compared Ferrari and RB also remind me of one dominant car that has only one of the drivers win a race that season remember in the same dominant car Webber didn’t win a single race and finish a very distant 3rd in the championship
@@emugss1201 Yeah he did. Hamilton was helped much more throughout the season. Shouldn't have even been in contention when they got to Abu Dhabi. Verstappen was by far the better driver that season.
Both the actions of Vettel and Verstappen were paybacks to their teammates… would have been better if mentioned it. They are teamplayers until you cross them.. Shines a more honest light then just being greedy
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.922 | 10 พ.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zmV5HRIxIBI/mqdefault.jpg)
Have You Watched This Video Yet?
Max Verstappen's Unparalleled Rise To F1 📈
WATCH ► th-cam.com/video/ctd5uooKDRA/w-d-xo.html
After the 2024 season this video needs a remake ;)
"..9 consecutive wins. Something that Verstappen is yet to surpass"
Max: And I took that personally
Easier to achieve when you running 22 races instead of 17 ;)
@@m0skit0that’s incorrect. The amount of races is irrelevant for achieving 9 in a row except the season has only 8 races or less.
It depends on your hardware and the competitors.
@@m0skit0Max did it in the 14th race of the season though so your comment doesn‘t make any sense lol😂
@@m0skit0this stat counts cross season (ascari did 9 in a row but in 2 different seasons)
@@KTLam Absolutely not irrelevant. Usually the car is not the same. The rules are (usually) not the same. The other cars are not the same. And on top of that, there's a stopping interval between seasons which of course affects regularity.
Adrian Newey is the real red bull GOAT
adrian newey is generally the GOAT
So it's all down to the car ? Is that right? Newey designed the best car and driver just has to turn break and go faster ?? So when mercedes were winning everything, it was just the car also ? A d Schumacher in the ferrari was just the car ?
@@paulthomson9014 yes that's correct
@@ju1cyjon3s31 completely.wrong !
@@paulthomson9014 explain. No driver would ever win without a good car, most of the time in the past 30 years it's been one of neweys cars that won, the driver has never mattered more then the car and the driver never will
Sebs 2012 season shows a lot too with 6 world champions on the grid
His 2010…
Vettel already spoke in an interview in Red Bull's Hangar, that he thinks Max is an absolute master of his craft. Pulling of moves and actions, which left Seb in awe and aknowledging he wouldn't be able to do that - and certainly not within that fraction of a moment where the opportunity arose.
Nuff said...
See what i am gonna right what seb did in 2012 max couldn't do it with 100 years of experience seb did the impossible in 2010 and 2012 max has the best car by 1 second with 0 competition is this your goat?
@@xaxagxaxag First... Try to compose sentences that everyone can understand. If you've achieved that - we can work from there.
@@snowholeoutdoors1769 2nd lemme tell again what seb did in 2010 on how he won the wdc with that team is impressive 2nd he did an epic comeback in 2012 with 2nd car 3rd finished 2nd in 2009 with a 1.5 slower car and 4th he built the team your 2 time paper carstappen has now without him rb would be a midfielder no matter what remember my sentence
@@xaxagxaxag keep trying... Use punctuation ffs. No-one reads that jibberish.
🥱@@xaxagxaxag
One thing we can all agree on is that both are legends.
Unless you are a Hamilton fan, in which case you say both are frauds.
LMAOOO😂
Well im a Lewis' fan and I think that they are legends👍
One in a million! I love you@@theyoutubeemperor6283
Hamilton’s fannest fan here, and they are Legends alright. Though Max is indeed a fraud at FIFA/FC.
The similarities are crazy between the two, both were rb academy drivers, took the record for youngest winner, beat Lewis Hamilton in Abu Dhabi for their first championship (I know in 2010 there where multiple title contenders but Lewis was one of them) got criticized for the way they treated their teammates (ex:multi-21 for seb and Brazil 2022 for Max) a Ferrari was the main challenger for one of their championships and layed down an absolutely dominant season (with Max perhaps also breaking the wins in a row record just like seb did in 2013)
Max was never an RB academy driver. Shows how much TH-cam weirdos pull stuff out of their bottom
I feel like Vettel and schumi have something about them, that make them better than their statistically superior opposites
Vettel is a bum 😂
Vettel? 🤥
@@jean-claudechucklee7911 liar
lol
@@worldcitizen9202 come on
I find it both laughable and nonsensical to say only Lewis Hamilton was Max's only closest opposition, because Max won 10 races and Lewis winning 8 races, but Lewis only had 5 wins until he took his last engine, which was so fast that it won the next 3 races easily and would of won the 4th and last race if it wasn't for a safety car. On the other side, you had Max, who didn't have a spare brand new engine like Lewis had, and the reason for that is because Lewis took Max clean out of the race at Silverstone and sent him into the wall at 185mph and ruined that engine. So Lewis was at fault for the incident and penalised for it, but he still won the race and gained 25points over Max and gained an extra engine too. Each driver is allowed 3 engines per season, roughly working out at 7 races per engine, but Max had to do 11 races with each engine or get a 5 place grid penalty and put him behind Lewis on track. It was clear to see that the Mercedes of Lewis with the brand new engine was by far quicker than every other car on track, including the sister Mercedes car. So in my opinion, if Lewis hadn't of taken Max out of the race at Silverstone, he would either of won, as he was in the lead at the time, or he would of finished 2nd and giving him 18 points and still have 3 engines and that would of made the 5 races very different, but even if Lewis did still win them races, the 25points for winning or the 18 points for coming 2nd at Silverstone, would of been enough either way for Max to win the title even by finishing 2nd in the last race. So people who say he didn't deserve it, are just ignorant or biased towards Lewis but either way, Max had nothing to do with the decision-making off track, he was only in control of what happened with him and his car on the track, and that is certainly NOT CHEATING!
well said
Can u repeat that
But the main problem for F1 and Redbull has always been that annoying bloody black fella because he always knows a bit too much how to drive better than the rest of the other ordinary drivers hence why they had to stop him surpassing Schumachers joint Record of 7X or it would of been the bloody black fella making it look easy again
If the hybrid era never happened vettel would be a 9 time champion
remember ricciardo tho
@@ju1cyjon3s31 🤣😂riccardo only beat vettel due to him wanting to leave rb and the car being completely off his style which is a cause of the hybrid era if that didn’t happen riccardo would get demolished like his fellow Australian Webber
@@Christzo18 average Vettel apologist. A good driver adapts to a car and doesn't make excuses. Same logic and bullshit we saw with Daniel at McLaren.
@ju1cyjon3s31 where is Riccardo now? Beat by Vettel in a car inferior to McLaren(AM). How did Russel beat hamilton? We just can't go out and say Russel is superior to hamilton. It's just that turbo hybrid regulations that put redbull on a back foot that it took redbull nearly 6 years to get back to top. They had no idea, built a car that is no way good for their lead driver, Riccardo is just lucky that car suited him. Give a loose rear end car to kimi, hamilton, both will fail to score good. It's just that car didn't suit Vettel and suited Riccardo better. If we give them both equal machinery of their liking, most of the drivers and pandits in f1 will outright pick Vettel to beat Riccardo. Vettel is not Alonso, Vettel had his limitations, in fact Alonso is all altogether different animal.
@@Gm345-v8o agreed but vettel is still one of the greats and alonso has his limitations
Vettel competition
Schumacher prime alonso prime Hamilton kimi and rosberg
Max competition
Leclerc 40year old alonso 38 year old Lewis
Bro forget to mention that Schumacher was 43. Alonso, hamilton,rosberg and kimi were all not in their prime at all lol💀
@@jouri20 alonso was definitely in his prime and Hamilton was far better than he is now also rosberg was nearing his prime and raikonnen wasn’t far of his too
@@jouri20 Schumacher I agree I just mentioned that he was on the grid
@@jouri20 and I also forgot to mention prime button
@@Christzo18 raikonen wasn't even close to his prime and hamilton was a 1 time champion back then
Update 0:56 he suprassed it
I'm a verstappen fan from the netherlands, but yes. Seb is Goat. Always be!
I love both ❤ .
Max is better in race's &
Seb is better in quli .
But both are very close in this two points .
Verstappen and Vettel are obviously extremely similar in raw qualifying pace, but Vettel is a league above Verstappen on race pace. Everyone who’s worked with those two said similar things, albeit Verstappen had the raw speed and Vettel had the setup and engineering prowess.
@@sandalphoncpu this feels like a big thumbsuck to prove some point.
I don't think Max is the type of driver who was well liked by fans in the beginning, even now it feels like something special is lacking is his character.
That being said, if you look at F1 objectively and have the priviledge of having watched the sport for the last 20 years through eras of the modern day greats like Schumi, Alonso and Vettel its almost apparent that Max really is the best amongst them all. Appart from Alonso, who will always think he is the very best to grace the sport, all of the others will most probably agree that Max edges out everyone else.
@@Kevvi-xp4be i don’t know where you’re going with this but like I said; I’m paraphrasing what the RB guys said on podcasts and shows. I’d rather take opinions from people who actually worked with them than someone who merely watched F1
@@sandalphoncpuhow many races has seb won from outside the top 3??? Need I say more about his race pace? Max’s is way better
@@sammoore3687 that’s the same thing as saying Alonso is washed because he hasn’t won a race since 2013. You’re obviously a type of new fan who looks at stats and thought that tells the whole story
Vettel is the greatest in stats, Verstappen the greatest in speed.
Max already destroyed vettel's stats in red bull though
@@symckr if you don't count the world championships
@ he will deff win 3 more
@@symckryou brain dead kid
Vettel was battling a much for competitive environment especially 2010 and 2012. Alonso, button, Lewis Kimi and Webber.
Season 2023 is coming to a close. Max literally broke almost all records with the most impressive of the winning percentage. He did also win 10 in a row and currently is again on a winning streak. He is already in 50+ wins and that all at age 26. That is insane.
If he does win the title in 2024. This debate will be over.
Max took this too personally in 2023 🤣
Prime Seb 100%. He had significantly tougher competition.
Verstappen in 2021 had far better competition
Different time different events just can't do comparison
How come all the experts talk about Senna, Schumi, Ham and Verstappen as the goat and never about Vettel? I think there’s a reason for that..
I understand with Lewis and Schumacher being goats they accomplished everything in F1, they are the goats not because of 7 world championships but because they won with 2 different constructors. Same with alian prost and Nikki lauda they are in the goat conversation as well. Verstapan and vettle both have won because of red bull dominance nothing more let's be honest. Let him win one more with other constructor I will give to u that verstapan is also goat material.
@@ashwinkumarkrhegde3891 Haha, Verstappen is going to be the goat. Apart from Senna, nobody is as talented as he is. age 17 in Formula 1 (Two 4th places in an Alpha Tauri, I think that is more impressive than winning a gp in a championship winning car) age 18 First GP win. So many briliant moments... Breaking all the records...
@@bigbrainss senna would be considered B tier if he hadnt died lol.
I would blame that bloody black fella again
Verstappen getting outqualified is also in the carsetups/designs on the grid: Especially Ferrari. Ferrari made a car that was great in 1 lap, but with horrendous cardeg. Whilst Verstappen always preferred Sunday-focused carsetup, knowing he can get passed any competition on Sundays if he sacrifices a bit of the 1-lap pace on the Saturday.
As expected, prime seb is better 👍
Max is clear of vettel bro 2020 2021 2022 2023 are all better than vettel max is just different
@@ShakAKA12 Bro watch the video
@@dizkicipanas23but 2023 was a level of domination that has never been seen before. Verstappen will go down as the goat of f1 when all is said and done.
@DrBased123 rubbish! Hes not even the goat of this generation. Can't go wheel to wheel without crashing, won't even let drivers unlap themselves without going aggressive. He's a donut in the fastest car. Petulant.
2023 is basically Maxie shitting on all the records achievable in one season
has yet to get one important one.... all so far haven't need skill
@@alangunningham5667 Max is very skilled..
@@alangunningham5667 Just because he had the fastest car, doesn't mean he doesn't have the "extra skill" look now he is still very competitive whilst McLaren arguably having the 'fastest car' right now. Winning 3 of the 4 races after Miami and before Austria.
Did you watch F1 during 2015 onwards? I've seen his debut in F1 and during the 2016 Brazilian GP, he is just a monster in the rain.
@@alfonsogabriellabong3340 going back to the comment rather than sticking a flag up Max's bum....the records so far haven't been significant ..that doesn't mean he isn't a good driver, he certainly is
@@alangunningham5667 Weren't significant? Bro, he won 19 out of the 22 races that's significant. also 10 consecutive wins out performing his teammate by a large margin. And the points tally up to a new record, he technically won the constructors championship alone in 2023. It's a massive understatement on what you just said that he doesn't have the "extra skill" and didn't need the "extra skill" for the records he broke and look now he got 9 consecutive poles nearly breaking Senna's record they're tied with pole right now.
Seb and Max are legends, and so is Newey. The winner is the combination of a fast car and driver's talent and ruthlessness.
Imagine not talking about performance in rain.. max is litterally a god in those conditions
Seb + Torrorosso + rain = 🥇
Vettel aswell
@@vestyycpn9265 Brazil 2016
@@rb-wtf5111 brazil 2016 was legendary from max, but so was monza 08, germany 19, Turkey 20
So was vettel?
Can't really compare qualifying records when Max and current Red Bull is known for setting up the car for the race specifically
Qualifying vs Team mate?
@@chocolate5217 Except Seb has a career quali win percentage vs teammates of 62.3%. Max' is 72.35% and it's only going to get better.
@@Loffacius_XVI It was you that said you can´t compare not me :). Senna has 87% and had prost as his teammate in 2 years.
@@chocolate5217 I was obviously talking about cross team quali battles. Are you dumb?
Are you dumb? Have you seen the difference in teammates the two have had? Those qualifying percentages take on a completely different meaning when you consider Seb was up against Webber, Kimi and Ricciardo. Max spent most of his career vs floundering teammates like Gasly, Albon and Checo. Not to mention, Seb also raced for much longer lmao, childish take
Prime Vettel All the Way Was Nostalgic
At the Austria tv Sebastian and Max where in the same show after the end of last sensing. Vettel said that Max puls of moves he Cannot do.
Don’t be brain dead
Vettel! He had a lot more competition in 2010 and 2012. The rb6 was quick in qualifying but in the mix in the race. It was the slowest among the Mclaren and Ferrari in straight line. Different to nowadays redbull which is the absolute best. Max won in 2021 in a very controversial way! Redbull was an inexperienced team compared to today!
I agree
My man did not make this opinion before the 2023 season finished, but still gud gud video brodie
I think Max is the bigger one because of the context of his first title... going up against probably the greatest driver ever after years of dominance and beat him! No challenge will be bigger to Verstappen then his first title... from now on, i think he only loses if Ferrari or Mercedes develop a better car than Red Bull.
So did vettel and vettels wins were even more impressive because he was literally fighting against the greatest primes at that time Kimi, Jenson, lewis and Alonso who was on fire. Max had to fight against just one person which was lewis. So no max is amazing but is not better than vettel, vettel was a monster
We all know that the ´21 title was fixed. Nothing we can do about. If Max wins a WDC with another team he will be GOAT material. He 'just' needs 8 titles.
For a new'ish channel (okay, a new channel 😉), you sure do make some well informed high quality videos.
Keep the videos coming and I'll stay *Subscribed* 👏👏👏
Thank you man! Really appreciate your comments & support, I’m just getting started 😜
Couple of points here. The Suzuka gap Max had is even more impressive when you consider that they only did about half a race because of all the rain. He basically pulled a gap of about a second a lap in the rain, the gap would have been almost double had the full race been ran. Besides that, i think Max is very much better than Vettel ever was. Max is better at wheel-to-wheel and has better racecraft than Vettel ever did. Max has won from various positions on the grid, where Vettel has only won when he started from the first three positions. Since the race is more of a marathon, where qualifying is more of a sprint, i'd say Max is the better racer. In the race you need to not only be fast, also very consistent with lap times, have to do strategy and pit stops etc., where qualifying is just be fast, which is a lot simpler when you ask me (though not necessarily easy, mind you). Max is fast as well as consistent and can basically make any strategy (except for maybe the most outlandish, though they might just try that once) work. Add to that Max had to contend with a ferrari that was clearly a better qualifying car than a race car, where the RB is the very opposite. All in all, it adds up to Max being better than Vettel ever was.
Not to mention Vettel wasn't able to do much at ferrari, so he isn't all that ruthless. Max would go to ferrari and either do the same as Schumacher did or destroy that entire team from within. He is ruthless enough not to take any shit from them whatsoever. Vettel was far more impressed and in awe of finally getting to drive for the same team as his hero did, that took a lot of his edge away from him. Max does not have that problem.
So much bs in this post 😂😂😂
Vettel won his 4 titles in the most competitive era ever kid and won with 3 different teams
Don’t be stupid
if 2013 season had more races vettel would had most consecutive wins all time
you can't just go to the track with a smile.... Daniel Riccardo: hold my bandages.
Max. Max all day. Seb is a smiley sniper. Max is a cold blooded strangler.
could you elaborate on that?
Guys even if Max had let Checo through in Brazil, he would get 2 more points and he would be 1 point behind Leclerc so he didn't lose anything
4 months later... what debate?
In 2023 season competition surrendered even earlier 😢
correction. Shumi's record was in 2004 with 13/18 wins
Incorrect: Schumacher won 13/18 in 2004 and 11/17 in 2002. However, arguably his 2002 campaign was the superior, as the 17/17 podiums finishes means a staggering 100% percentage that's mathematically unsurpassable.
Verstappen has secured perfect 10 in 2023 and Max's fight in 2021 was much better than any Sebastian championship. We have to see records also. Max is the youngest driver to score points and win a race. Whereas Seb is the youngest driver to win a world championship. He has already won 2023 which bags him with 3 championships and more will chances will come. According to me Max is the better one but got to admit that the 2012 season was also a blockbuster in which Vettel won . Being a max fan I admit Seb will always remain a legend of the sport.
bro ive been watching your videos and thought you had at least 50k subs, but u deserve so much more attention!
Maybe one day! Tysm for the kind words bro ❤️
I personally think Max is better
Seb… it was seb it is seb it will always be seb
Vettel is Great and one of my all time favorites but Max is on par with Schumacher and Senna. If he doesn't retire ealry in his career he'll break all the rules
Dutch F1 fan here. I have to admit you have good points. Vettel is an absolute beast of a driver and before Max entered the scene, I was actually a Vettel fan. I do think these comparisons are hard to make. There are so many variables to take into consideration that it is near impossible to make a decent comparison. But, both Max and Seb are amazing drivers and definitely the best of the best. I can't even choose a winner between both of them to be honest. Love them both.
Easily Verstappen, had Verstappen was in Red Bull in 2009, he would have won the championship
Verstappen right now would have beaten Button in 2009. But Verstappen in his earlier years would have done even worse than Seb did. He'd likely have beaten Webber, but he would've finished behind Button and even Rubens in the championship. Verstappen in his early years was known as Crashstappen for a reason, you know, so I think he'd have done even worse than Seb did, if we assume he's in his third year in F1, like Seb was back in 2009.
@@mrsheev9131 I know you are trying to be fair but i dont think thats fair either because Vettel raced in other open wheel formula racing cars for 4 years before he was in F1 while it was only 1 year for Max. Max jumped from karting to F1 so fast that he had to gain that experience in an F1 car for his first few years while Vettel and every(almost?) other driver already had years of experience in an open wheel formula car. So i dont think you can compare Max's third year in F1 with Vettel's third year in F1.
@@mrsheev9131 I personally think Max is the better driver, but many people are blinded by nostalgia. Sebastian was great at driving that particular car, but once the regulations changed he was beaten by every single teammate and seemed to struggle a lot. Sebastian has a championship contending car for 6 seasons (arguably 7) while this is only Max’s 3rd year with a championship contending car.
@@mrsheev9131Verstappen would not be beaten by Button, he is the best driver currently on the grid, cope harder hater
@@mrsheev9131only toxic clowns use namecalling like “crashtappen” and no Max has not crashed more than other drivers, look at Lewis from 2007-2011 for instance
The simple answer is, as great as Seb was, during his dominating years Webber was very close to him and often beat him, while once Max matured a bit, he was simply unbeatable by any teammate. Lewis was beaten by Nico and needed a spineless #2 like Bottas (who still managed to beat him sometimes) to secure his string of WDCs. As I write this, Max just won at Spa lapping between 1 and 2 seconds faster than anyone else, after starting 6th because of a gearbox replacement penalty. Neither Seb nor Lewis ever achieved that level of superiority.
Webber was actually a good drier though, and clearly Seb got better over time as Webber got 0 wins in 2013
Max doesn't have a good enough team mate ATM. Perez has been brought in for the constructors. I seem to recall Riccardo beating him from time to time when he was at the team 🤔
there was 1 year that webber was close during their 5 years together and that was 2010.
@@samcook6593 Riccardo beat an 18 and 19 year old Max once max matured he started beating Riccardo which ended with Riccardo being forced out the team
A few months later: this item aged like fine milk
Max is a legend and still young. So yeah max is King of F1 💯🔥
hamilton is the goat
@@strikagames2765 NOPE 😁
@@outlawf1272 stats don't lie😁
@@strikagames2765 stats dont mean much
Vettel is the one and only.
Max.
Well, I think it's fair to say the prime debate has been settled this season.
As of today Max has 17 this year, possibly going for 19. I think that seals this debate lol.
Vamoooosss sebb 🇩🇪🇩🇪🇩🇪🇩🇪🇩🇪🇩🇪🇩🇪
I personally think Max is the better driver, but many people are blinded by nostalgia. Sebastian was great at driving that particular car, but once the regulations changed he was beaten by every single teammate and seemed to struggle a lot. Sebastian has a championship contending car for 6 seasons (arguably 7) while this is only Max’s 3rd year with a championship contending car.
Is every single teammate 2 guys? Lol, also he was 6-3 vs. teammates since 2013.
You stupid Vettel won his titles in the most competitive era ever and like today nice try kid 😂😂😂 don’t be brain dead
7 seasons? Yeah, he had a championship contending car at Red Bull in those 4 years but at Ferrari, the only time he had a real competitive car was 2018. Maybe you think the 2017 car was competitive, but it wasn't at the same level of Mercedes (2017 Belgian gp showed this) and the 2019 car was build following Leclerc's driving style. That also happened in 2020.
i think 2023 season is his peak
This is so obvious, it’s Max Verstappen.
vettel was absolutely hated and booed at almost every race in 2013. i believe that says enough
Not to say max has had it easy but when vettel won titles it was against 6 other world champions at the pinacle of F1. When max won it in 2021 it was insane but the rest of them have come from others mistakes and a car on steroids.
where whas perez most off the time then. verstappen will get 9 wins in a row this season if nobody is hitting him off the track.
@@hijlkecornelisboorsma1058 were was webber
@@jordankievit5372 webber was considered faster then vettel 2010
@@ju1cyjon3s31 what about the rest
@@jordankievit5372 nowhere, because he's not as good as vettel, and because vettel was fast in those cars and had no competition
Max will be top 3 greatest once he is done. Myabe even the greastest who knows. Same cannot be said about Vettel. Great guy but nowhere close to Max Lewis Schumi.
love ur vids man u deserve like at least 1 mil
You’re a legend bro! Means a lot ❤️
missed a chance to say "i just had to go and poke the HORNERS nest"
Vettel 013 all day idc. And he’s better than the Dutch (for now) unless he comes back. Vettel was so good ppl were bored n started booing him but where was the boos when Hamilton was Dominating
Massive Seb fan here since his RB days but gotta admit Max is a generational talent. I consider Michael, Alonso and Verstappen above the rest. Never saw Senna so can’t comment.
So was Sebastian he went on being the youngest world champion ever and I doubt anyone could break that record let's not forget vettel one his first championship before Drs was even a thing Sebastian was really a sensational driver and definitely in the top five
VER's still got a couple of years
Vettel was beat by Riccardo 😂😂😂
yes but this is about a single season
@@天敵神手王he also was destroyed by Leclerc in 2020
Max, better stats.
The answer's quite obviously Verstappen
Vettel after winning his 4th title got beaten by Ricciardo in his first year at RB🤷♂
Max since coming to RB in 2016 never showed any signs of drop-off in his career yet and has done literally everything Vettel did for 6 years
Max won 10 races & 40 podiums with a car not able to compete for a title (2016-20), Vettel won 0 races in 2014 and only scored 3 podiums
Verstappen will surpass Seb next year in terms of total wins and equal his record on titles, I will reserve my comment until November 2024.
He could do it (total wins) this season if he wins 7 out of remaining 8 races which looking at current situation seems highly likely.
I think you don't have to wait for next year :)
@@dead_locked in case of equalling titles, we do have to wait for next year atleast.
I'll save your time, VETTEL.
Max is a literal racing machine, his childhood is just lose race = beat by dad.
Verstappen + Vettel = Schumacher.
Legacy still lives.
Verstappen + Vettel + Schumacher + Hamilton = Senna
No one gets more hate for being too good except a Red Bull driver who's surname starts with V.
Nah bro not the tumbnail 💀
Fernando being there for both😭
Quality content, keep going my friend. Greetings from the Netherlands 🇳🇱
Dankjewel ❤️
I believe max have speed but less competitive gird then Vettel have .... remember in 2012 6 greater driver on grid ..... And last race of 2012 ... Vettel pull WC from freando.. with damage car
In 2012 Alonso with a garbage Ferrari would have made an historical event winning with that car … but Vettel gave everything in Brasil, he experienced the worst possible scenario in first lap but made the greatest recovery
Wasn't Vettel the guy who was driven to crap by this Australian guy called Daniel Ricciardo? Funny enough that same Australian also got the fastest lap time in "F1 star in a reasonably priced car" (even before Lewis). Ergo, that Danny Ric seems very fast.....and got smoked by.... I'll let you figure this out.
If course everyone must have their own opinion, but seriously? Oh well...
For now I think Seb is definitely better than Verstappen, however if you just let Verstappen cook few more seasons he might just become better than Seb, and i kinda feel (with how he drives, thinks and thrives) that Verstappen will become 7 times or perhaps more.
Verstappen is already better than Vettel ever was. Only thing Seb has is more pole positions, more championships and the youngest WDC
You cant compare them because it are different areas
I say yes and don't even think about to bring "oh no my tyres" guy in
I feel like if you made this video again today, Verstappen would be as dominant as he was in 2023
Fair Assessment
Both, but different eras.
All of these comparisons are contrived. Different eras, different cars, etc.
Put either in the other’s car would prove little. Both hard cars based on their individual driving styles.
this has aged well .... 🤣🤣🤣
I think all the Seb fans are a littlebit fan of Verstappen aswell. Is verry posible. But who the better driver is, between Vettel & Verstappen. Then my answer gona be Max Verstappen. For all who read this. .. who is the better one? Sebastian or Max??
You are arguing simultaneously that:
1. When Verstappen qualified on top it was because of the car
2. When Verstappen didn't qualify on top it was because of the driver
That's patently absurd.
Verstappen outqualified Perez 18 to 4 and held the biggest pace difference between teammates after Albon and Latifi.
In 2022 Ferrari had the quicker car before the summer break. Verstappen only took a lead in the championship because of his consistency and because Ferrari and Leclerc kept making errors.
Also the notion that the competition was tougher in 2013 is just silly. Button was in a McLaren that was just a midfield car. Hamilton was in a Mercedes that wasn't any more competitive than the Mercedes of 2022. And if we are just going to name a bunch of skilled drivers: the grid from 2022 had Alonso, Leclerc, Hamilton, Russell, Sainz, Vettel, Norris and Verstappen. Do you really want to pretend that the newer generation of drivers is somehow inferior?
You're not making an argument. You're just making assertions.
2023 enters the chat :
Watching this in December 2023
Once this season is finished compare Max’s season to Vettel’s and it will be a crazy difference. I think max will get 17-18 wins this season, he has already won by 30+ seconds multiple times and is not looking like slowing down considering he just won Hungry with 33 seconds to spare and in Austria pitted at the end last lap to go for fastest lap and still won. He is crazy dominant this season and I think once it is all said and done it will easily be the most dominant season ever seen in a Redbull
Vettel himself has stated that Verstappen was doing things that he wasn't capable of.
I think a better comparison is the fact that Verstappen was able to beat Hamilton in 2021 in an inferior car, where Vettel failed in 2017 and 2018 in a similar inferior car.
I think it is pretty obvious that Verstappen is the more consistent driver. And you can't really separate Vettlel 2013 from Vettel 2014 - 2022. It just reflects on how dominant Vettels car actually was in 2013.
You lie to much
If verstappen was in that Ferrari he would have killed himself😂😂😂
@@arijankolic8331 Past 50 races Verstappen has made only 1 significant unforced error (Singapore 2022). There is no driver as consistent as Verstappen at the moment and probably ever at any point in the history of the sport. He currently has 92% of the maximum number of points available this season over 9 races and 2 sprint races.
What exactly am I lying about? I don't even know why I bother. You're just another random fool who makes claims without providing any evidence. Stupid people should not spread their stupidity, Unfortunately social media gives people like you too much of a platform to do so.
Bro really compared Ferrari and RB also remind me of one dominant car that has only one of the drivers win a race that season remember in the same dominant car Webber didn’t win a single race and finish a very distant 3rd in the championship
verstappen didnt beat hamilton lol the fia did
@@emugss1201 Yeah he did. Hamilton was helped much more throughout the season. Shouldn't have even been in contention when they got to Abu Dhabi.
Verstappen was by far the better driver that season.
Both the actions of Vettel and Verstappen were paybacks to their teammates… would have been better if mentioned it. They are teamplayers until you cross them.. Shines a more honest light then just being greedy
Vettle
Vettel never was a really consistent driver. That's also why he never achieved a world championship 🏆 for Ferrari.
Max is a much better driver.
Vettle didn't need Mark Webber to help him win!!
its Newey...
Of course Newey is the GOAT. Please make a video about the best car designers.
Max going to be goat of this sport not just redbull
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