I haven't bought any new Lionel in years. Prices have been ridicules for quite awhile, quality control is poor, and getting repairs is a hassle. I DO buy Lionel, used, at swap meets and train shows. I recommend joining clubs such as TCA. I had one BTO (Built to Order) experience and it was a nightmare. I don't even look at the catalogs anymore, this hobby is supposed to be fun!
Fantasy paint scheme don’t bother me as long as they offer prototypical color. The price and quality of Lionel’s product troubles me. Nothing for me in this catalog
I like the fantasy paint schemes. At the end of the day they are all just toys anyway. I can't afford Lionel so I model in HO, and even that is getting overly expensive.
I'm not going to lie I am disappointed in terms of the prices. I was considering to buy a new locomotive in the catalog, but it's really not worth it even from a dealer. I did preorder some rolling stock though as I do want to support the company. Imo Lionel is not keeping a balance of the market and I don't know why they are not trying to focus more on affordable O Gauge sets. I wish they would bring back more of the conventional sets. No disrespect to Lionel's management, but they need to be focusing more on affordability and traditions, not just highly priced Bluetooth sets and vision line.
Good review! The whole catalog is really disappointing. The 125th anniversary should have been a huge celebration, but it was basically an afterthought. No sense of history, at all. They could have offered a nice line-up of classic, pre-and-post-war trains, updated with modern, electronic reversing units, horn and bell, but without all of the stuff that comes with the higher-end engines. Instead, they have the same-old-same-old steam and diesel engines, with some fantasy paint schemes and a few accessories. Nothing new, really, just some stuff, made with older tooling and gussied-up a bit. It is what it is, I guess. Too bad. I'll stick with my post-war, conventional trains. An excellent video, as always.
😂well as an old guy that loves trains I am sorry I ever bought any of the electronic engines with sound. I paid big bucks back in the 90’s and first decade of the 2000’s. I am one to run my trains and let the grand kids run them when I can get them in the train room. My complaint is when you have trouble with the electronics you are in for major expense. I can pretty much repair my post war trains myself. I found a Lionel repair station near me and the man is very good and honest. He does not over charge and he gets frustrated with not being able to get circuit boards for certain products. Sorry for the long rant I just want to say I agree with you they need to make more quality affordable products.
No need for apologize Man, I Appreciate your feelings and compassion. Too me JLC Himself would have turned over in his grave if he saw the company as it is Now
What gets me is that the 675 set (this time with the green 2400 series passengers) got jacked to $550. Last years Prairie set was a $430 MSRP. I can’t see the justification from Lionel to bump the price by 28%
Lionel’s preemptively raising prices in answer to the tariffs. That has to be it. But it’s kind of a poor excuse cause they take in more than enough profit that they could afford to absorb some of the extra cost.
Love your content. Thanks for keeping model / toy trains alive! Price - someone else said it here that it appears Lionel is pregaming the upcoming tariffs imposed on China. I hadn’t considered that companies would be doing this but i have to agree. It’s responsible of Lionel to adjust margins now and not get caught with their pants down later. 38% of the county voted for increasing the prices of goods from China do you kinda get what you get at this point. Volume - there’s a LOT here. I mean this catalog has to be what, 4X the number of things we’ve seen in years past? I applaud Lionel for coming up with this much product. Quality - I think this depends on what you like. There’s a lot of Star Wars fans in the world that will appreciate the humor and fun in what Lionel did with that franchise. For me, i was over the moon to see a Heisler in the line up. It feels like it’s been forever since Lionel released a geared loco. Yes, i was bummed they didn’t do a run of logging cars but maybe we’ll see it in Vol2 this year. The Vanderbilt I’m on the fence about but it is growing on me. The train of the year model in particular is interesting. I’m also all about that J1e, the cool Niagara car set and even the fantasy paint schemes. There’s just sooooo much! Are they expensive? Yes, but like i said, people voted for this. I’d rather Lionel get in front of it now and if it doesn’t manifest they can run sales next season. I hope that if MTH and others don’t address rising cost this season now it doesn’t do real damage to their businesses next year. Being a business owner myself I’m sure nervous about what these cost increases will do to market demand next year. We all have to feed our families.
In my opinion I don’t like lionchief sets, like what’s the point of getting an expensive cheap locomotive with sounds that are crap. I mean just listen to any of their steam sets. I think they should go back to doing sets with transformers instead of gimmicks that I don’t care for.
I think “cheap” is kind of the whole point of them, as they have probably been intended as entry/intermediate level products. I have a few of them and I like them all so far (and I will be picking up the two Star Wars sets when they come out).
China tariffs are baked into these prices. By the time the products are actually manufactured, the tariffs will be rolled out. Good on Lionel to protect the bottom line. Price strategy must have been a gut wrenching exercise at Lionel. They had to balance projected lost sales due to these higher prices against the financial hit from paying import tariffs absent these price increases. Some economists estimate a 60% cost increase due to tariffs with China. That $2,000 item would be $1,250 absent the tariff - still high, but easier on the wallet. Product offerings and poor paint color management aside, this is a smart and proactive move on Lionel’s part.
Exactly. I understand that they need to make money and hopefully continue with better prices. I did preorder some rolling stock and might order a few more items since I still love the Lionel brand and I hope things will get better for all sides.
Celebrating 125 years of the Lionel name and celebrating 108 years of actual Lionel trains. 17 of those years were General Mills (1969 -1986) MPC era "Lionel" trains.
@railchief74 1970 did start the MPC era but Lionel sold to General Mills in 1969. I like to give it an extra year because GM brainstormed good trains before production.
@ I’m pretty sure it was 1970 when GM Acquired the rights to Lionel. But you know, we’re friends and I won’t make it a big deal. Hope the layout is coming along well
The problem that Lionel should be addressing is their prices they're way too high i preordered a triplex absolutely love the locomotive i don't have enough for the full 2,000.00 to pay my friend back because inflation has cut us down to basically next to nothing and its like we can't afford model trains in a democratic administrations america
While I don't do O scale (I'm HO for the most part), I like some of the fantasy schemes shown here, but what I'm very concerned about seeing is the insanely high price tags! Whether this is being caused by tariffs, price gouging, a mix of both, or whatever, Lionel has got to reign it in, or nobody is going to be able to afford these trains (which we're pretty much already there anyway), and nobody wins in the long run!
The big thing that bothers me is the fact that Lionel jacked up the Lionchief pacifics price from $430 in 2016 to $700 now. *That is the same price as the S Gauge legacy usra light pacifics from 2021, and more expensive than nearly American Flyer S Gauge TMCC, Flyerchief, and Legacy steam engine made from the 2000s to 2021.* If this is the direction Lionchief is going from this point on, we might actually see the majority of S Gauge become cheaper than O Gauge Lionchief...😬😬
I have followed your channel for a long time and I always enjoy your videos. I have a question. Who cares if they make the fantasy paint schemes or not? If you don’t like it, you don’t have to buy one. Everybody’s complaining about the Southern Pacific Daylight paint on the S2. There is so much complaining about it. If there are fans of that paint scheme, and that helps sell a train, fantastic! Would I buy it. No. But if someone else likes it, and it brings them enjoyment, welcome to the hobby.
He is expressing his opinion just like you. Who is right or wrong, idk but his channel his opinion. It’s a bad catalog for such a big anniversary of the company.
It is more like they are not offering anything really new, just slapping a fantasy paint scheme on existing product and palming it off as something special. This catalog does absolutely nothing for the 125th anniversary of Lionel.
@shayfan05 just from reading the initial comment, I don't think he's accusing the channel of having a bias against fantasy schemes. Just from what is said in the video is something I've been saying for quite some time now, yelling and screaming in forums will not make these types of models go away! As they say, money talks louder than anything in this business, when fantasy schemes stop selling, thats when companies like Lionel stop making them, its just that simple! That said, he's not wrong in what he said though, there are people out there who think fantasy schemes, even those done by individuals, and not companies like Lionel, should be banned from the hobby, and suffer severe punishment for even having them! I know this because not only have I heard from people who got some pretty vicious comments about these types of models (not necessarily Lionel, but just fantasy scheme models in general regardless of scale), in fact, saw a comment that was made to a TH-cam friend of mine who was attacked for buying an HO scale fantasy CPKC SD70CU (the comment was deleted later but I saw the screenshot of it)! Yes, people are allowed to have opinions about these fantasy schemes, good or bad, but when those people against these types of models start attacking others for simply having a fantasy scheme model in their collection, I'm sorry, but now that stepping way beyond just expressing an opinion! But back to the topic of this video overall, what Lionel needs to do is reign it in on the prices, or EVERYBODY loses in the end!
Hey everybody. I meant no disrespect in my post. I hope nobody took it that way. I was merely wanting to start a dialogue on the feelings of the fantasy paint schemes. I personally used to hate them, but over the years I have started liking some of them. They are definitely not all for me. I understand why the manufacturers make them. How many times can you make a prototypical Hudson and everybody has one. The manufacturers have to do something to try to sell more trains. The prices in the catalog is a debate that will go on forever. Some of the items have only gone up a little bit since their last release, other items the prices seem insane. Without knowing what goes on on the back end, I don’t want to make any assumptions on why the prices are the way they are. I don’t see the folks at Lionel lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills so I doubt they’re rolling in a whole lot of money. I personally feel there were a lot of items in the catalog that paid respect to Lionel history. A lot of the comments I’ve read really seem to focus around the postwar era. And there is a volume two catalog that will be released this summer plus several special releases that have been announced. Anyway, thank you for commenting and keeping it civil. I know a lot of times on social media. It just turns into a finger pointing and name-calling. I never want that to happen. I do like discussing peoples opinions and why they like or dislike certain things. Have a great day.
That may be true, but sometimes you have to think about what looks good and what doesn’t look good on a locomotive and how it can be a What If Paint Scheme that would make Sense
That’s cool that you enjoyed it. But sometimes you have to look at the Facts in Front of you and Digest the pros and cons of Everything as a collector. But like I mentioned, let’s just hope that volume 2 can be Better
My brother does O gauge. He was less than thrilled wirh this catalog. Lionel is grossly overcharging for their products.
you got that right
I haven't bought any new Lionel in years. Prices have been ridicules for quite awhile, quality control is poor, and getting repairs is a hassle. I DO buy Lionel, used, at swap meets and train shows. I recommend joining clubs such as TCA. I had one BTO (Built to Order) experience and it was a nightmare. I don't even look at the catalogs anymore, this hobby is supposed to be fun!
I agree with you all the way
Fantasy paint scheme don’t bother me as long as they offer prototypical color. The price and quality of Lionel’s product troubles me. Nothing for me in this catalog
I like the fantasy paint schemes. At the end of the day they are all just toys anyway. I can't afford Lionel so I model in HO, and even that is getting overly expensive.
That proves my point that I just made here in this video. But most of these items are not toys
I'm not going to lie I am disappointed in terms of the prices. I was considering to buy a new locomotive in the catalog, but it's really not worth it even from a dealer. I did preorder some rolling stock though as I do want to support the company. Imo Lionel is not keeping a balance of the market and I don't know why they are not trying to focus more on affordable O Gauge sets. I wish they would bring back more of the conventional sets. No disrespect to Lionel's management, but they need to be focusing more on affordability and traditions, not just highly priced Bluetooth sets and vision line.
Oddly enough the NYC F3 Freight set is Conventional Despite the high price tag
Good review! The whole catalog is really disappointing. The 125th anniversary should have been a huge celebration, but it was basically an afterthought. No sense of history, at all. They could have offered a nice line-up of classic, pre-and-post-war trains, updated with modern, electronic reversing units, horn and bell, but without all of the stuff that comes with the higher-end engines. Instead, they have the same-old-same-old steam and diesel engines, with some fantasy paint schemes and a few accessories. Nothing new, really, just some stuff, made with older tooling and gussied-up a bit. It is what it is, I guess. Too bad. I'll stick with my post-war, conventional trains. An excellent video, as always.
You hit the nail on the head! I felt the same way, it was just a whole lot of nothing.
😂well as an old guy that loves trains I am sorry I ever bought any of the electronic engines with sound. I paid big bucks back in the 90’s and first decade of the 2000’s. I am one to run my trains and let the grand kids run them when I can get them in the train room. My complaint is when you have trouble with the electronics you are in for major expense. I can pretty much repair my post war trains myself. I found a Lionel repair station near me and the man is very good and honest. He does not over charge and he gets frustrated with not being able to get circuit boards for certain products. Sorry for the long rant I just want to say I agree with you they need to make more quality affordable products.
No need for apologize Man, I Appreciate your feelings and compassion. Too me JLC Himself would have turned over in his grave if he saw the company as it is Now
What gets me is that the 675 set (this time with the green 2400 series passengers) got jacked to $550. Last years Prairie set was a $430 MSRP. I can’t see the justification from Lionel to bump the price by 28%
Yeah, Exactly! Like You as a company wants to bring back Nostalgia but you decide to make the more Expensive like the Older Postwar sets are Now
Getting ready for the tariffs. Seriously.
Lionel’s preemptively raising prices in answer to the tariffs. That has to be it. But it’s kind of a poor excuse cause they take in more than enough profit that they could afford to absorb some of the extra cost.
@ I’m not sure I understand what you’re trying to explain?
Love your content. Thanks for keeping model / toy trains alive!
Price - someone else said it here that it appears Lionel is pregaming the upcoming tariffs imposed on China. I hadn’t considered that companies would be doing this but i have to agree. It’s responsible of Lionel to adjust margins now and not get caught with their pants down later. 38% of the county voted for increasing the prices of goods from China do you kinda get what you get at this point.
Volume - there’s a LOT here. I mean this catalog has to be what, 4X the number of things we’ve seen in years past? I applaud Lionel for coming up with this much product.
Quality - I think this depends on what you like. There’s a lot of Star Wars fans in the world that will appreciate the humor and fun in what Lionel did with that franchise. For me, i was over the moon to see a Heisler in the line up. It feels like it’s been forever since Lionel released a geared loco. Yes, i was bummed they didn’t do a run of logging cars but maybe we’ll see it in Vol2 this year. The Vanderbilt I’m on the fence about but it is growing on me. The train of the year model in particular is interesting. I’m also all about that J1e, the cool Niagara car set and even the fantasy paint schemes. There’s just sooooo much!
Are they expensive? Yes, but like i said, people voted for this. I’d rather Lionel get in front of it now and if it doesn’t manifest they can run sales next season. I hope that if MTH and others don’t address rising cost this season now it doesn’t do real damage to their businesses next year. Being a business owner myself I’m sure nervous about what these cost increases will do to market demand next year. We all have to feed our families.
In my opinion I don’t like lionchief sets, like what’s the point of getting an expensive cheap locomotive with sounds that are crap. I mean just listen to any of their steam sets. I think they should go back to doing sets with transformers instead of gimmicks that I don’t care for.
I highly agree with you on that
I think “cheap” is kind of the whole point of them, as they have probably been intended as entry/intermediate level products.
I have a few of them and I like them all so far (and I will be picking up the two Star Wars sets when they come out).
@@Eyrrll oh sorry I meant cheap as quality
@Eyrrll the Star Wars Sets are pretty Decent Looking
Hi from Michigan - Well said 👍
Thanks for watching!
Middle class folks who fall in between the high and low end again have nowhere to go
Go to good postwar…..looks great, runs forever.
@MarkNieting I’ve always collected postwar my entire life
@@MarkNieting I’m talking about modern o gauge.
China tariffs are baked into these prices. By the time the products are actually manufactured, the tariffs will be rolled out. Good on Lionel to protect the bottom line. Price strategy must have been a gut wrenching exercise at Lionel. They had to balance projected lost sales due to these higher prices against the financial hit from paying import tariffs absent these price increases. Some economists estimate a 60% cost increase due to tariffs with China. That $2,000 item would be $1,250 absent the tariff - still high, but easier on the wallet. Product offerings and poor paint color management aside, this is a smart and proactive move on Lionel’s part.
It’s all about making Money, You make a lot of sense
@ and sustainability!
Exactly. I understand that they need to make money and hopefully continue with better prices. I did preorder some rolling stock and might order a few more items since I still love the Lionel brand and I hope things will get better for all sides.
@wordenentertainment1997 let’s sure hope so my friend
The Log isn`t worth the paper it`s printed on.
Celebrating 125 years of the Lionel name and celebrating 108 years of actual Lionel trains. 17 of those years were General Mills (1969 -1986) MPC era "Lionel" trains.
Don’t you mean 1970-1986 Ed?
@railchief74 1970 did start the MPC era but Lionel sold to General Mills in 1969. I like to give it an extra year because GM brainstormed good trains before production.
@ I’m pretty sure it was 1970 when GM Acquired the rights to Lionel. But you know, we’re friends and I won’t make it a big deal. Hope the layout is coming along well
@railchief74 always nice to have a discussion. I'm at the last part of painting in the basement, then the table will be put back together
@ Very Cool! The suspense will be worth it
The problem that Lionel should be addressing is their prices they're way too high i preordered a triplex absolutely love the locomotive i don't have enough for the full 2,000.00 to pay my friend back because inflation has cut us down to basically next to nothing and its like we can't afford model trains in a democratic administrations america
While I don't do O scale (I'm HO for the most part), I like some of the fantasy schemes shown here, but what I'm very concerned about seeing is the insanely high price tags! Whether this is being caused by tariffs, price gouging, a mix of both, or whatever, Lionel has got to reign it in, or nobody is going to be able to afford these trains (which we're pretty much already there anyway), and nobody wins in the long run!
The big thing that bothers me is the fact that Lionel jacked up the Lionchief pacifics price from $430 in 2016 to $700 now.
*That is the same price as the S Gauge legacy usra light pacifics from 2021, and more expensive than nearly American Flyer S Gauge TMCC, Flyerchief, and Legacy steam engine made from the 2000s to 2021.*
If this is the direction Lionchief is going from this point on, we might actually see the majority of S Gauge become cheaper than O Gauge Lionchief...😬😬
That Barbie train paint seems about the right color to me, tbh.
The Barbie Paint Scheme is not really my big concern, it’s the Higher Top of the Line Engines and LionChief stuff that I’m Weary about
Perhaps they are building in increaes to prepare for promised tariffs.
956.00 for a conventional train set is the biggest scam I’ve seen.
I have followed your channel for a long time and I always enjoy your videos. I have a question. Who cares if they make the fantasy paint schemes or not? If you don’t like it, you don’t have to buy one. Everybody’s complaining about the Southern Pacific Daylight paint on the S2. There is so much complaining about it. If there are fans of that paint scheme, and that helps sell a train, fantastic! Would I buy it. No. But if someone else likes it, and it brings them enjoyment, welcome to the hobby.
He is expressing his opinion just like you. Who is right or wrong, idk but his channel his opinion. It’s a bad catalog for such a big anniversary of the company.
It is more like they are not offering anything really new, just slapping a fantasy paint scheme on existing product and palming it off as something special. This catalog does absolutely nothing for the 125th anniversary of Lionel.
@shayfan05 just from reading the initial comment, I don't think he's accusing the channel of having a bias against fantasy schemes. Just from what is said in the video is something I've been saying for quite some time now, yelling and screaming in forums will not make these types of models go away! As they say, money talks louder than anything in this business, when fantasy schemes stop selling, thats when companies like Lionel stop making them, its just that simple! That said, he's not wrong in what he said though, there are people out there who think fantasy schemes, even those done by individuals, and not companies like Lionel, should be banned from the hobby, and suffer severe punishment for even having them! I know this because not only have I heard from people who got some pretty vicious comments about these types of models (not necessarily Lionel, but just fantasy scheme models in general regardless of scale), in fact, saw a comment that was made to a TH-cam friend of mine who was attacked for buying an HO scale fantasy CPKC SD70CU (the comment was deleted later but I saw the screenshot of it)! Yes, people are allowed to have opinions about these fantasy schemes, good or bad, but when those people against these types of models start attacking others for simply having a fantasy scheme model in their collection, I'm sorry, but now that stepping way beyond just expressing an opinion! But back to the topic of this video overall, what Lionel needs to do is reign it in on the prices, or EVERYBODY loses in the end!
Hey everybody. I meant no disrespect in my post. I hope nobody took it that way. I was merely wanting to start a dialogue on the feelings of the fantasy paint schemes. I personally used to hate them, but over the years I have started liking some of them. They are definitely not all for me. I understand why the manufacturers make them. How many times can you make a prototypical Hudson and everybody has one. The manufacturers have to do something to try to sell more trains. The prices in the catalog is a debate that will go on forever. Some of the items have only gone up a little bit since their last release, other items the prices seem insane. Without knowing what goes on on the back end, I don’t want to make any assumptions on why the prices are the way they are. I don’t see the folks at Lionel lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills so I doubt they’re rolling in a whole lot of money. I personally feel there were a lot of items in the catalog that paid respect to Lionel history. A lot of the comments I’ve read really seem to focus around the postwar era. And there is a volume two catalog that will be released this summer plus several special releases that have been announced.
Anyway, thank you for commenting and keeping it civil. I know a lot of times on social media. It just turns into a finger pointing and name-calling. I never want that to happen. I do like discussing peoples opinions and why they like or dislike certain things. Have a great day.
That may be true, but sometimes you have to think about what looks good and what doesn’t look good on a locomotive and how it can be a What If Paint Scheme that would make Sense
Ugh seriously that Thomas the tank engine is a nightmare
Do you think so? Because I’d say it’s the best!
That’s cool that you enjoyed it. But sometimes you have to look at the Facts in Front of you and Digest the pros and cons of Everything as a collector. But like I mentioned, let’s just hope that volume 2 can be Better
Railchief74 for President!