Nah... I think he's just talking about GoT, since he doesn't cover much outside the show, especially when he talks about the timeline, which is way more broad. Not saying he doesn't mention the books, but it seems more focused on the HBO series.
@@Stargeek06that is the purpose, there are many other books but he transitions between middle earth and Lord of the Rings depending on the topic, both are awesome and both only got 2 live action adaptations ( ignore rings of power) in which the prequel came after, I just think the coinscidence is funny
Technology static in LOTR? Did you forget that Isengard, and Saruman represent industrialization. Something Tolkien hated but nonetheless present. There are more advanced weapons and let’s not forget that Saruman creates presumably a bomb, the “blasting fire”
And didnt the dwarves invented like high powered howitzer ballistas? Or those twirling things. LOTR is much more advancing in their tech conpared to GoT
"LOTR themes have a clear distinction between good and evil" The main theme is the weakness of the human heart, its easy corruption and temptation, a metaphor for sin. It's a lot more than a fairytale of good vs evil.
Yeah I like how when Sam carries it for just a few hours to rescue Frodo, even Sam feels the pull when Frodo asks Sam to give it back. Sam is arguable the most noble and loyal of them and even he was tempted.
A clear distinction does not negate that theme. It's still a very black and white definition of what is evil and wrong in the world, vs what is good and virtous. Something which universes like ASOIAF not only lacks but criticises from a relativist and morally grey viewpoint as if it not being a realistic distinction one can make.
That's like arguing that Star Wars doesn't make a clear thematic distinction between good and evil because Jedi occasionally get tempted to the Dark Side. The whole reason people get corrupted by the One Ring is because the ring is _pure evil._ There's nothing morally ambiguous about that.
@@pgabrielrr He said it shouldn't be read as _allegory._ Basically, he did use some symbolism - rings, for example, are an old symbol of bonds, like to a lord, in marriage, etc - but there isn't some hidden meaning to be discovered. His stories are just about actual dragons and elves and all that stuff. We're not supposed to think Gandalf is really Jesus, or anything like that. Besides, this is more an issue of theme, which isn't really the same thing as symbolism.
There's a lot, I mean a lot wrong about middle-earth here... in almost every bit. About morality, optimism, and also ignorance about the age of the trees and so on which come before the first age. It seems to focus almost completely on the events in the Lord of the Rings rather than taking the darker and harsher wars with Morgoth into account, which had many tensions among the elves and between elves and dwarves and men as well as the constant threat of the creeping darkness which slowly consumed Beleriand from the north. Many of the men also sided with the darkness rather than the light and the power in the one ring causes corruption in all who look upon it.
Was thinking the same, he forgot the age of trees and the lamps. Like teh first age is when man came to be, there was several thousands of years before that. And more beyond
@@reffa2858not really these two novels are largely different from their genres to everything...I agree Lotr will always be more famous nd a classic but asoiaf has surpassed it in story telling, characters etc but that's just my opinion
@@marimo5039when george rr Martin has stated many times he gets a lot of inspiration from Tolkien as do all modern fantasy writers Tolkien is just simply more complex as he studied writing also.
It's ironic how Tolkien comes from a time of war and his works are the opposite of it and GRRM comes from a time of relative peace and his works are literally the polar opposite of it...
@@kullenmontgomery1210 yes, he also wanted to set an example for others to follow the beacon of hope despite the reality of the human condition and wars being fought
-There is literally a political struggle in the history of gondor and numenor (especially during its golden age) -Numenor had an almost gender equal dinamics when it comes to rulership. -You simply failed to mention that Haleth was a warrior and ruler of her people being one of the first heroes of the edain (humans) and is accompanied by female bodyguards. -Dwarves possessed great craftsmanship and architecture. But Numenor had a more advanced military and industrial might and artistry. -there was kinstrife within the house of eorl the young. And occupied the ancestral homeland of the Dunlendings whom they perceived as "wild men" -no one in middle earth is safe from natural elements. Catastrophic weather nor bubonic plagues. -Men including the elves are equally capable of atrocities as well as heroic deeds without any allegiance to a higher power. By means of ethnic cleansing, slavery, incest, and usurpation. -I SUGGEST YOU READ THE BOOKS FIRST MATE.
I don’t know but I think this is more based on their live action versions so the movies and the tv show or mainly from the main books so just lotr and got doesn’t seem to go beyond that.
@@revilokid you're not wrong there. Except he mentioned the ainulindalë (creation of the world) and it irritated me how he butchered the rest the saga.
Haleth (female Haleth of the first age) was quite an exception to the rule though as Tolkien's works on the big whole is patriarchal and follows male storylines 95% of the time. And from what I recall Haleth never actually was a warrior herself but did lead the Haladin after her father and brother were slain. And I wouldn't say men and elves are *equally* capable of vice either that's quite out of proportion. Yes, elves have comitted great wrongs like the kinslaying of Alqualondë or Maeglin's treason of Gondolin but again you have to look at the big whole. As a race and people elves are usually possessed of a nigh indomitable moral compass and aside from Maeglin have never sided with the dark lords. And even so Maeglin never sided with Morgoth as much as he wanted princess Idril whom Morgoth promised her.
To say the technology of middle earth is static is wrong. 1. The technology of Mordor and of Isengard reflects industrialization of there resources and land with siege weapons being of a more cruder in design and more menacing. Giving a more phycological warfare aspect to their enemies, this is seen in Return of the King with Grond " The Wolfs head" a massive Siege Ram, siege towers and siege catapults firing the served heads of Gondorian soldiers in the siege of Minas Tirith. As well as the siege of Helms Deep with the bombs created in Isengard, the ballista used to fire the rope for the ladders. 2. The Numenoreans were master shipbuilders and naval navigation congregating in several colonies throughout middle earth with a huge trade routes. The descendants of Numenor, being Gondor and Arnor were able continue their predecessors work with the likes of fortress like Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Osgiliath, Pelargir, Fornost, Annuminas. And some of their defenses put in place being that of Trebuchets, Siege towers, quality of arms just to name a few. Were as in GOT we are shown realistic adaptions of Siege Warfare with Trebuchets, Rams, Naval Vessels, and other tactics. Yes medicine is explored a little bit more in GOT then LOTR with the Ingredients. But the Portrayal of these advancements are through the Character's such as when Cersei wants to know if the Mountain can be saved and Pycelle advise that nothing can be done for him. Qyburn steps in and is able to bring the Mountain Back in a zombified state. To clarify I am basing the GOT depiction form the tv show and not the book. As far as Siege Warfare goes it pretty bad I mean the battle of the black water showed and excellent use of wildfire, no use of catapults or trebs throughout that battle. battle of the bastards had no siege weapons, the siege of riverun is the only depiction that shows proper siege warfare when Jamie and Bronn arrive to assist the Freys.
I think that's oversimplifying things a bit. While humans in Middle-earth often deal with moral grey areas, Elves aren't purely good - just look at the whole Fëanor situation. And Orcs, though usually portrayed as evil, were something Tolkien actually struggled with in his later writings. Plus, this view ignores the complex morality of other races like Dwarves or even Hobbits. Tolkien's world is more nuanced than just "Elves good, Orcs bad." There's a lot of moral complexity in Middle-earth, even if it's not as obvious as in some other fantasy worlds.
I like both a lot, and both are my top two favorite worlds in all of fiction. ASOIAF (Not GOT) is more like "We live in that world and only know what the scholars and historians have recorded," and the rest are up to our imaginations. While LOTR is like "Here's who made the world, what everything is, go and have fun," and it's done by an extremely talented and caring man who treated this world how it should be treated, with care and love... (Looking at you Amazon...)
IMO the best thing you can do for both of these works is to not compare them Yeah, they are both fantasy. But they represent two distinctly different interpretations of that genre. Tolkiens work is intimate, mystical, and deeply intentioned with themes and stories along the way. GRRM's work is gritty, almost realistic in its nature despite being fantasy, and explores much darker yet ever present human themes. Lord of The Rings and their protagonists are models we aspire to emulate. Aragorns effortless masculinity and humbleness, Frodos and Sams enduring spirit and friendship, Theodens struggle and acceptance with mortality and the qualms of leadership, and many more. Game of Thrones has no direct protagonist in my eyes. We have POV chapters on people from young children, to monstrous men (Euron ahem ahem). None of these chareters represent some peak form of some moral ideal that we must strive to be. In fact, if I heard anyone tell me they aspired to be like Jon Snow, who cuts mens heads off for disobeying him, takes children away from their mothers, and allows men to be burned at the stake by religious zealots. I would think you are a crazy person, and probably submit a police report. ASOIAF charecters represent the gritty reality that many of us face. Our lives are not fantasy tales where the guy gets the gal, and evil is banished in whole till the end of time. We all have evil inside of us, and thats what makes Game of Thrones so awesome to read. You KNOW the person you are reading is a bad person, but you are eager to see their story completed because there are real distinctly human themes that george tells. When you want to compare worldbuilding, I think its important to understand just how HUGE georges story is. There are over 2,000 named charecters in a Game of Thrones. 9 Great houses and hundreds of smaller ones. All with their own motto, creed, banner, and story. I have read both series, there is simply MORE in georges. More books, more prequels, more everything. Hell, theres a book dedicated solely to the reigns of the Targaryens that is longer than the fellowship by 200 pages jam packed with worldbuilding lore.
You're not wrong about ASOIAF being more inspired by real history, but it's also heavily inspired by norse and celtic mythology. Bran and the magic of the weirwoods borrows heavily from the story of Odin and Yggdrasil. Also you could that the over arching story is inspired by Ragnarok. Not a lot of fantasy authors aren't inspired by some mythology lol
Westeros doesn't have a Morgoth or a Sauron. When (in the TV series) they had to face something similar, although smaller in scale, the world united against it. Sure, Cersei betrayed them, but there were also betrayals in Tolkien's works. And please, Cate Blanchett is Galadriel!
"Lotr doesnt focus on the political tensions if nations" technically true of the Lord of the Rings story, but the extended legendarium (particularly the 2nd age) is full of it
When it comes to the concept of death in ASOIAF there are a few things that hint at something more going on in that area. The three eyed raven can warg into trees and in the trees there are pieces of the souls of previous three eyes ravens. Same things happens for those who warg into animals. There a guy in one of the books who has his human body destroyed as he was inside a bird and he now lives as a bird with no human body. The lord of light and the drowned god have brought a few people back to life as well.
Well-researched analysis. I think it is silly that people are comparing these two series because Lotr is the classic pioneer of the fantasy genre and a brilliant good vs evil story with good storytelling, and characters. In contrast, Got is a more realistic story of wars and betrayals,alliance and human nature. Both are some of the best fantasy genre has to offer.
lotr actually has 4 time periods, the creation of the world and so on until the first defeat of morgoth was marked as the years of the trees. And then when morgoth destroyed the trees began the first age
@@markusbasmadjian6817 The 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ages is the record of the children of Illuvatar (elves, dwarfs, and men). Elves were around before the first age though. I believe they were born during the Age of Trees. But the middle earth we see in 2nd and 3rd age looks alot different from 1st age. And before that it was the age of trees and before that the age of lamps.
Tolkien defined the fantasy genre however GRRM forever changed its landscape. Gone are the Tolkien idealistic and heroic tales. In a more cynical world, what is relatable are gray characters. Now fantasy can be purely for adults to. Before its was mainly catered for kids and the whole family, LOTR, Narnia, Harry Potter
well i am sure LOTR will remain relevant for another century, while grrm will fall into obscurity somewhat. And one of the reasons for that is what you already mentioned: Tolkien offers idealistic and heroic tales, which people like and desire evermore in these cynical and grey times we live in
@@paulusillyriusiudathaddaio2530 With time, stories like Tolkien's transcend more, those with universal values that inspire us and with rich philosophical and spiritual value, beyond stories where everything is cynicism and moral relativism. I think it's because although these plots are interesting to watch because of the political conflict and surprising betrayals, they are elements that work more for a first visit, but do not give you anything really transcendental beyond a well told story (and that Martin's stories have some flaws), because we can not say that GOT is more realistic in the sense of historical parallelism, because any scholar in history will identify how superficial is the author's understanding of premodern societies on which it was based. As the Dothraki, for example, have more in common with the orcs than with their declared influences (Mongols, Sioux, etc.)
@@nicolasm2001 i guess time will tell. Both books have been there for decades. I will disagree however that heroic tales especially grounded on religion is more transcendent. History has proven that the only constant thing is goodness mixed with cruelty. As GRRM said, the conflict of the human heart. What i can for say for sure is that the current climate yearns more for a more relatable fantasy rather than high fantasy with ultimate heroes.
0:53 The First Age is not the beginning of Middle Earth's timeline. The three ages referred to in the video are only the ages of the sun, and a blip at the tale end of a vast history. Arda's history begins with the age of the great lamps. When those are destroyed by Morgoth, the trees were planted in Valinor, and the elves were born under the stars during the age of the trees. When Morgoth destroyed the trees and the Noldor pursued him from Valinor to Middle Earth, the sun was created and men awoke, thus beginning the ages of the sun. 2:23 While you're right about the role of religion, or lack thereof, in Tolkien's world, it's not true that everyone knows what happens in the afterlife. We know what happens to elves, but the fate of the souls of men is presented as the great mystery at the thematic heart of much of the grand story.
Evil does also win in LOTR, but in the bigger picture good will always win. Which also makes sense if you look at how humans have progressed throughout history, we are much better now than a thousand years ago or more.
Because it seems to me is tgat yiure fan if lotr and cant stand to got being more grounded and complex and bruh its wrong to compare them both lotr is epic and got is just dark and complex
@@Romatwoknfive i love both worlds (albeit i do favour tolkien's by far) but the uploader of this video got a lot of things wrong/inaccurate, and that's on BOTH "sides". and yea i agree they shouldn't be compared because they are very distinct bodies of work.
@@brokeboyNYA like how he says elves are morally good and the creatures of sauron are morally bad the elves did a lot of evil things to their own kinsmen for instance in the kinslaying at alqualonde. and he says that middle earth is not politically complex. if he decided to read any of the books before making this video he would've learned of the strife and power dynamic between orcs and uruks the strife of saruman and sauron and most importantly the downfall of numenor. although still not as complex as gof its a fair downplay to not call it complex in its own way
Thanks for explanation you are a great guy knowing the difference between the differences between culture i believe death in real life feels more similar to me of Lord of the rings world 😅🎉
@@BigBroKuma i dont think its the matter of treating him like god its more of a matter of actually doing him right and actually reading his work and not deciding to make a video after watching the movies and a few youtube videos if he read even 1 book the silmarillion he would see that middle earth is not as black and white as he thinks
9:50 sorry but I have to say it, humans have no afterlife, they die just like in GOT(Tolkien called it true death) and its the humans deep desire for immortality that shapes the second age a lot
Idk why you are comparing these two. It’d be more interesting to see you compare Tolkien’s work with the material he based it off of like the Völsunga saga.
@waleed8211 relatively they aren’t comparable your right, they are both very different forms of fantasy, one optimistic and one pessimistic, not necessarily a bad thing but it’s true. But realistically they are comparable, Tolkiens world simply had much more work put into making the world great. The man spent 21 years world building before he published anything, this is just not found in got, so while they both might seem equal on the surface, the deeper you look into both you’ll find that middle earth IS UNDENIABLY richer and more full of quality content. I’m not dissing got but some people here are trying to put it at the same level as Tolkiens world and that’s just not feasible, R R Martin hasn’t been alive long enough to have put in the time that Tolkien did. Please feel free to argue but if you will do so cordially and not like brain dead shithead
Fist of all I want to make this clear awesome vid and can see that you put alot of work into it and I would very much like to see similar content from this channel. But if you're going to talk about the lotr community plz do more research first. There are alot to put out but I'll say the obvious ones. ・The tone of LOTR is much more sad, cruppted hero's (obvious ones being like saruman and Isildur→which I actually still consider a hero), And lots of hopeless situations. The epic and heroic part is true but like most stories there are alot of parts that aren't ・This is not really wrong but death for mortals is kind of unknown and is 100% not to the undying lands ・The influence is Wrong, sorry but as a Tolkien fan I have to say it a like harshly but Tolkien was a Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford University! and had lots of influence from there!!! ・Good or evil is a hard part some evil men aren't really evil and are mere slaves of Sauron and Sauron himself actually believe it or not had some good intentions ・technological advancement is a hard topic some can argue that the rings were a advancement or sarumans bombs and uruk-hai (which can also be said it a forgotten thing) is also an advancement! ・For the maps... I dont't really get what difference you're trying to point out? (Sorry i dont know about GOT that much so I cant really say anything about that part) Non the less great vid and can really see you're love for both worlds!
I think he's just talking about GoT, since he doesn't cover much outside the show, especially when he talks about the timeline, which is way more broad. Not saying he doesn't mention the books, but it seems more focused on the HBO series.
so basically ASOIAF is way better than LOTR? i haven't read the LOTR books, does anyone recommend it? i saw the movies when i was younger and always thought they were pretty childish, and a "good-vs-evil-plain-boring" story i hope the books are more complex
bro read the first 100 pages of the silmarillion and you will see that its not as simple as you think the elves are not morally good not by far if you actually bothered to read the books before making this uninformed video it would be a lot better
Thank you for this! You put to words why I dislike and/have very little interest in Tolkien and yet love GoT. I've never been a fan of fantasy bc of its naivety - good vs evil etc.
People have different preferences over things they like, Tolkien's works are meant and catered towards people that want to take a break from reality and immerse themselves in fantasy. Martin's works are for people who love medieval Europe but the addition of dragons and a little bit of magic here and there while also including the harsh realities of the world.
I think your comment mostly based on LOTR story and movies in that case. As a Tolkien fan I worked lots of time on his works and I can say that there is no naive good vs evil in middle-earth (maybe it has in the LOTR story but not on the entirety of the universe). I dont know much about GOT world but as also a history nerd I can say Tolkien's universe is not less complicated ore naive then the actual history. But I also understand that Tolkien's other works then the LOTR story is not visualised and clearly writen on a novel so you have to do lots of researches and be very passionate about his complicated books to understand the world fully.
while some characters are ambiguous in Got/Asoiaf,there is a clear distinction on who is good and who is evil. The Starks/Tullys are good,their antagonists are the Lannister/Crownlands/Greyjoys who are evil (the Others are obviously evil as well). The ambiguity is often related to secondary characters or characters that may seem important but are not meant to play a relevant part in the greater picture. The same applies for Tolkien's works
You are far from growing enough to comprehend mythos, lil bro. You have no idea what you are talking about, you are only exposing your own narrowmindedness.
what's the point if everyone knows the answers to the test? what's the point of putting in the effort to learn from the teacher's teachings if he can just provide all the answers on the day of the test?
![The History of Morgoth [COMPILATION] | Tolkien Explained](/img/n.gif)
GOT? Don't you mean ASOIAF?
Nah... I think he's just talking about GoT, since he doesn't cover much outside the show, especially when he talks about the timeline, which is way more broad. Not saying he doesn't mention the books, but it seems more focused on the HBO series.
@@anamnese3334 That is immensely disappointing, there's so much world building ASOIAF that never got any attention in GOT or HOTD.
@@Stargeek06that is the purpose, there are many other books but he transitions between middle earth and Lord of the Rings depending on the topic, both are awesome and both only got 2 live action adaptations ( ignore rings of power) in which the prequel came after, I just think the coinscidence is funny
@@anamnese3334when he refers to "lord of the rings" he refers only to the peter jackson aswell
Technology static in LOTR? Did you forget that Isengard, and Saruman represent industrialization. Something Tolkien hated but nonetheless present. There are more advanced weapons and let’s not forget that Saruman creates presumably a bomb, the “blasting fire”
He just consider only LOTR not the Legendarium. But against that GOT should be showing only GOT not ASOIAF...
Also Numinor was kinda steampunkish
And didnt the dwarves invented like high powered howitzer ballistas? Or those twirling things. LOTR is much more advancing in their tech conpared to GoT
It's very clear that guy has not read the books of tolkien and george
"LOTR themes have a clear distinction between good and evil" The main theme is the weakness of the human heart, its easy corruption and temptation, a metaphor for sin. It's a lot more than a fairytale of good vs evil.
Yeah I like how when Sam carries it for just a few hours to rescue Frodo, even Sam feels the pull when Frodo asks Sam to give it back. Sam is arguable the most noble and loyal of them and even he was tempted.
A clear distinction does not negate that theme. It's still a very black and white definition of what is evil and wrong in the world, vs what is good and virtous. Something which universes like ASOIAF not only lacks but criticises from a relativist and morally grey viewpoint as if it not being a realistic distinction one can make.
That's like arguing that Star Wars doesn't make a clear thematic distinction between good and evil because Jedi occasionally get tempted to the Dark Side. The whole reason people get corrupted by the One Ring is because the ring is _pure evil._ There's nothing morally ambiguous about that.
wait, didn't tolkien said there's not symbolism in lord of the rings?
@@pgabrielrr He said it shouldn't be read as _allegory._ Basically, he did use some symbolism - rings, for example, are an old symbol of bonds, like to a lord, in marriage, etc - but there isn't some hidden meaning to be discovered. His stories are just about actual dragons and elves and all that stuff. We're not supposed to think Gandalf is really Jesus, or anything like that.
Besides, this is more an issue of theme, which isn't really the same thing as symbolism.
There's a lot, I mean a lot wrong about middle-earth here... in almost every bit. About morality, optimism, and also ignorance about the age of the trees and so on which come before the first age. It seems to focus almost completely on the events in the Lord of the Rings rather than taking the darker and harsher wars with Morgoth into account, which had many tensions among the elves and between elves and dwarves and men as well as the constant threat of the creeping darkness which slowly consumed Beleriand from the north. Many of the men also sided with the darkness rather than the light and the power in the one ring causes corruption in all who look upon it.
Was thinking the same, he forgot the age of trees and the lamps. Like teh first age is when man came to be, there was several thousands of years before that. And more beyond
I haven’t even been into middle earth for a year and I was screaming throughout most of this
🤓☝️
Tolkien walked so Martin could run. I love game of thrones but nothing can be compared to the grandeur that is Middle earth
I think Tolkien ran and won. Everyone else is just playing catch up....
@@reffa2858not really these two novels are largely different from their genres to everything...I agree Lotr will always be more famous nd a classic but asoiaf has surpassed it in story telling, characters etc but that's just my opinion
@@marimo5039when george rr Martin has stated many times he gets a lot of inspiration from Tolkien as do all modern fantasy writers Tolkien is just simply more complex as he studied writing also.
Agreed 💯 percent
@@reffa2858that would be great to see what if game of thrones is a future middle Earth but without elves jk🎉
It's ironic how Tolkien comes from a time of war and his works are the opposite of it and GRRM comes from a time of relative peace and his works are literally the polar opposite of it...
They are both anti war
makes sense for Tolkien he wanted to create a whimsical fantasy world to get away from the war
@@kullenmontgomery1210 yes, he also wanted to set an example for others to follow the beacon of hope despite the reality of the human condition and wars being fought
"We are all orcs."
@@richmondlandersenfells2238 😭😭
The technology in lotr static? The dwarves technological advancements were impressive. Also didn’t Saruman create bombs.
Don't forget numenorean civilization.
🤓☝️
In the Middle Earth nobody knows what happen after death, that's exactly what caused the fall of Numenor
i know you didn’t use that picture of the fake galadriel over cate blanchett..
Amazing video lad. Makes excelent material for future writers
-There is literally a political struggle in the history of gondor and numenor (especially during its golden age)
-Numenor had an almost gender equal dinamics when it comes to rulership.
-You simply failed to mention that Haleth was a warrior and ruler of her people being one of the first heroes of the edain (humans) and is accompanied by female bodyguards.
-Dwarves possessed great craftsmanship and architecture. But Numenor had a more advanced military and industrial might and artistry.
-there was kinstrife within the house of eorl the young. And occupied the ancestral homeland of the Dunlendings whom they perceived as "wild men"
-no one in middle earth is safe from natural elements. Catastrophic weather nor bubonic plagues.
-Men including the elves are equally capable of atrocities as well as heroic deeds without any allegiance to a higher power. By means of ethnic cleansing, slavery, incest, and usurpation.
-I SUGGEST YOU READ THE BOOKS FIRST MATE.
I don’t know but I think this is more based on their live action versions so the movies and the tv show or mainly from the main books so just lotr and got doesn’t seem to go beyond that.
@@revilokid you're not wrong there. Except he mentioned the ainulindalë (creation of the world) and it irritated me how he butchered the rest the saga.
this video would be 6 days long if he fully went into the lore and worldbuilding of lotr. It's supposed to be a very basic comparison
Haleth (female Haleth of the first age) was quite an exception to the rule though as Tolkien's works on the big whole is patriarchal and follows male storylines 95% of the time. And from what I recall Haleth never actually was a warrior herself but did lead the Haladin after her father and brother were slain.
And I wouldn't say men and elves are *equally* capable of vice either that's quite out of proportion. Yes, elves have comitted great wrongs like the kinslaying of Alqualondë or Maeglin's treason of Gondolin but again you have to look at the big whole. As a race and people elves are usually possessed of a nigh indomitable moral compass and aside from Maeglin have never sided with the dark lords. And even so Maeglin never sided with Morgoth as much as he wanted princess Idril whom Morgoth promised her.
🤓☝️ "i suggest you read the books"
Wasn’t expecting that ubrupt cut off at the end but great vid
Thank you, my Lord
To say the technology of middle earth is static is wrong. 1. The technology of Mordor and of Isengard reflects industrialization of there resources and land with siege weapons being of a more cruder in design and more menacing. Giving a more phycological warfare aspect to their enemies, this is seen in Return of the King with Grond " The Wolfs head" a massive Siege Ram, siege towers and siege catapults firing the served heads of Gondorian soldiers in the siege of Minas Tirith. As well as the siege of Helms Deep with the bombs created in Isengard, the ballista used to fire the rope for the ladders. 2. The Numenoreans were master shipbuilders and naval navigation congregating in several colonies throughout middle earth with a huge trade routes. The descendants of Numenor, being Gondor and Arnor were able continue their predecessors work with the likes of fortress like Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul, Osgiliath, Pelargir, Fornost, Annuminas. And some of their defenses put in place being that of Trebuchets, Siege towers, quality of arms just to name a few.
Were as in GOT we are shown realistic adaptions of Siege Warfare with Trebuchets, Rams, Naval Vessels, and other tactics. Yes medicine is explored a little bit more in GOT then LOTR with the Ingredients. But the Portrayal of these advancements are through the Character's such as when Cersei wants to know if the Mountain can be saved and Pycelle advise that nothing can be done for him. Qyburn steps in and is able to bring the Mountain Back in a zombified state. To clarify I am basing the GOT depiction form the tv show and not the book. As far as Siege Warfare goes it pretty bad I mean the battle of the black water showed and excellent use of wildfire, no use of catapults or trebs throughout that battle. battle of the bastards had no siege weapons, the siege of riverun is the only depiction that shows proper siege warfare when Jamie and Bronn arrive to assist the Freys.
I think the Men in middle Earth are generally morally grey. While Elves and Orcs are metaphors for the nature of good and evil.
I think that's oversimplifying things a bit. While humans in Middle-earth often deal with moral grey areas, Elves aren't purely good - just look at the whole Fëanor situation. And Orcs, though usually portrayed as evil, were something Tolkien actually struggled with in his later writings. Plus, this view ignores the complex morality of other races like Dwarves or even Hobbits. Tolkien's world is more nuanced than just "Elves good, Orcs bad." There's a lot of moral complexity in Middle-earth, even if it's not as obvious as in some other fantasy worlds.
🤓☝️ asoiaf better
@@solarboyguy sadly not
There is actualy many examples of elves doing some moraly awful or realy stupid decisions. THe seem like a flawless beings in LOTR, but they are not.
I like both a lot, and both are my top two favorite worlds in all of fiction. ASOIAF (Not GOT) is more like "We live in that world and only know what the scholars and historians have recorded," and the rest are up to our imaginations. While LOTR is like "Here's who made the world, what everything is, go and have fun," and it's done by an extremely talented and caring man who treated this world how it should be treated, with care and love... (Looking at you Amazon...)
IMO the best thing you can do for both of these works is to not compare them
Yeah, they are both fantasy. But they represent two distinctly different interpretations of that genre.
Tolkiens work is intimate, mystical, and deeply intentioned with themes and stories along the way. GRRM's work is gritty, almost realistic in its nature despite being fantasy, and explores much darker yet ever present human themes.
Lord of The Rings and their protagonists are models we aspire to emulate. Aragorns effortless masculinity and humbleness, Frodos and Sams enduring spirit and friendship, Theodens struggle and acceptance with mortality and the qualms of leadership, and many more.
Game of Thrones has no direct protagonist in my eyes. We have POV chapters on people from young children, to monstrous men (Euron ahem ahem). None of these chareters represent some peak form of some moral ideal that we must strive to be. In fact, if I heard anyone tell me they aspired to be like Jon Snow, who cuts mens heads off for disobeying him, takes children away from their mothers, and allows men to be burned at the stake by religious zealots. I would think you are a crazy person, and probably submit a police report.
ASOIAF charecters represent the gritty reality that many of us face. Our lives are not fantasy tales where the guy gets the gal, and evil is banished in whole till the end of time. We all have evil inside of us, and thats what makes Game of Thrones so awesome to read. You KNOW the person you are reading is a bad person, but you are eager to see their story completed because there are real distinctly human themes that george tells.
When you want to compare worldbuilding, I think its important to understand just how HUGE georges story is. There are over 2,000 named charecters in a Game of Thrones. 9 Great houses and hundreds of smaller ones. All with their own motto, creed, banner, and story. I have read both series, there is simply MORE in georges. More books, more prequels, more everything. Hell, theres a book dedicated solely to the reigns of the Targaryens that is longer than the fellowship by 200 pages jam packed with worldbuilding lore.
You're not wrong about ASOIAF being more inspired by real history, but it's also heavily inspired by norse and celtic mythology. Bran and the magic of the weirwoods borrows heavily from the story of Odin and Yggdrasil. Also you could that the over arching story is inspired by Ragnarok. Not a lot of fantasy authors aren't inspired by some mythology lol
please tell me bro didn't just use amazon's rings of power galadriel when portraying her... jfc
Westeros doesn't have a Morgoth or a Sauron. When (in the TV series) they had to face something similar, although smaller in scale, the world united against it. Sure, Cersei betrayed them, but there were also betrayals in Tolkien's works.
And please, Cate Blanchett is Galadriel!
"Lotr doesnt focus on the political tensions if nations" technically true of the Lord of the Rings story, but the extended legendarium (particularly the 2nd age) is full of it
💯 That's why the 2nd age is my favourite.
6:35 of all the Galadriel photos you chose rings of power Galadriel 😂😂
"LOTR themes have a clear distinction between good and evil" So this is not abut the Legendarium included silmarillion. isn't it?
Even silmarilon has it. There ar things, that are objectivly evil and things, that are objectivly good and it is pretty clearly stated in the book.
How about continents of Middle Earth and Westeros-Essos are made to exist opposite side of a globe?
Am I thinking what you are thinking?
@@EverythingExplained101 I hope so!
When it comes to the concept of death in ASOIAF there are a few things that hint at something more going on in that area.
The three eyed raven can warg into trees and in the trees there are pieces of the souls of previous three eyes ravens. Same things happens for those who warg into animals. There a guy in one of the books who has his human body destroyed as he was inside a bird and he now lives as a bird with no human body. The lord of light and the drowned god have brought a few people back to life as well.
Technology is not static in LORT..
Well-researched analysis. I think it is silly that people are comparing these two series because Lotr is the classic pioneer of the fantasy genre and a brilliant good vs evil story with good storytelling, and characters. In contrast, Got is a more realistic story of wars and betrayals,alliance and human nature. Both are some of the best fantasy genre has to offer.
Agreed, GØT is my personal favorite, but they are both completely incomparable because they both give something of their own and unique.
lotr actually has 4 time periods, the creation of the world and so on until the first defeat of morgoth was marked as the years of the trees. And then when morgoth destroyed the trees began the first age
Pretty sure first age began when elves awoke in cuivienen
You forgot the ages before the first age, the age of the trees, the age of the lamps.
Asoiaf is just so clear it's unbelievable
cap
😂😂😂
Fr
There was two ages before the first age. In the lord of ring world
Then why is it called the “first” age 😂
@@markusbasmadjian6817 The 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ages is the record of the children of Illuvatar (elves, dwarfs, and men). Elves were around before the first age though. I believe they were born during the Age of Trees. But the middle earth we see in 2nd and 3rd age looks alot different from 1st age. And before that it was the age of trees and before that the age of lamps.
@@markusbasmadjian6817 no offense but your face looks like the pot of greed XD
Tolkien defined the fantasy genre however GRRM forever changed its landscape. Gone are the Tolkien idealistic and heroic tales. In a more cynical world, what is relatable are gray characters. Now fantasy can be purely for adults to. Before its was mainly catered for kids and the whole family, LOTR, Narnia, Harry Potter
You sound edgy mostly teenagers like dark stuff and think they are grown up, none of these are restricted to age. Lotr is for everyone any age
well i am sure LOTR will remain relevant for another century, while grrm will fall into obscurity somewhat. And one of the reasons for that is what you already mentioned: Tolkien offers idealistic and heroic tales, which people like and desire evermore in these cynical and grey times we live in
@@paulusillyriusiudathaddaio2530 With time, stories like Tolkien's transcend more, those with universal values that inspire us and with rich philosophical and spiritual value, beyond stories where everything is cynicism and moral relativism. I think it's because although these plots are interesting to watch because of the political conflict and surprising betrayals, they are elements that work more for a first visit, but do not give you anything really transcendental beyond a well told story (and that Martin's stories have some flaws), because we can not say that GOT is more realistic in the sense of historical parallelism, because any scholar in history will identify how superficial is the author's understanding of premodern societies on which it was based. As the Dothraki, for example, have more in common with the orcs than with their declared influences (Mongols, Sioux, etc.)
@@nicolasm2001 i guess time will tell. Both books have been there for decades. I will disagree however that heroic tales especially grounded on religion is more transcendent. History has proven that the only constant thing is goodness mixed with cruelty. As GRRM said, the conflict of the human heart. What i can for say for sure is that the current climate yearns more for a more relatable fantasy rather than high fantasy with ultimate heroes.
@@jarogniewtheconqueror2804calm down bro 😂
0:53 The First Age is not the beginning of Middle Earth's timeline. The three ages referred to in the video are only the ages of the sun, and a blip at the tale end of a vast history. Arda's history begins with the age of the great lamps. When those are destroyed by Morgoth, the trees were planted in Valinor, and the elves were born under the stars during the age of the trees. When Morgoth destroyed the trees and the Noldor pursued him from Valinor to Middle Earth, the sun was created and men awoke, thus beginning the ages of the sun.
2:23 While you're right about the role of religion, or lack thereof, in Tolkien's world, it's not true that everyone knows what happens in the afterlife. We know what happens to elves, but the fate of the souls of men is presented as the great mystery at the thematic heart of much of the grand story.
This video easily deserves a million views, your explanation was very captivating. Good work 👍🏻
Thank you so much 😀
TH-cam algorithm is slow to catch up^^
I prefer GOT because it just seems more real that evil can win and does
Evil does also win in LOTR, but in the bigger picture good will always win. Which also makes sense if you look at how humans have progressed throughout history, we are much better now than a thousand years ago or more.
Currently I'm more interested into something complex like GOT, but High Fantasy really appeals to me. I'd like to see a new saga with a mix of both 🔥🔥
there are so many things wrong/inaccurate with this video smh
For instance
Because it seems to me is tgat yiure fan if lotr and cant stand to got being more grounded and complex and bruh its wrong to compare them both lotr is epic and got is just dark and complex
@@Romatwoknfive i love both worlds (albeit i do favour tolkien's by far) but the uploader of this video got a lot of things wrong/inaccurate, and that's on BOTH "sides". and yea i agree they shouldn't be compared because they are very distinct bodies of work.
bro just ask chatgpt if u have no clue from lotr, so much wrong in ur vid
What all wrong then
@@brokeboyNYA like how he says elves are morally good and the creatures of sauron are morally bad the elves did a lot of evil things to their own kinsmen for instance in the kinslaying at alqualonde. and he says that middle earth is not politically complex. if he decided to read any of the books before making this video he would've learned of the strife and power dynamic between orcs and uruks the strife of saruman and sauron and most importantly the downfall of numenor. although still not as complex as gof its a fair downplay to not call it complex in its own way
LOTR having more magic and battles based on mythologies and Bible are the reasons why it's way better fantasy verse than GOT
i feel like this dude only watched the lotr movies and saw a few youtube videos about middle earth and never read any of the books
I would say that lord of the rings is a perfect allegory and even the best war story/movie, mainly seen through orcs.
I have to disagree westeros might be more cynical but the story dosnt have a clear cut alignment as boromirs death shows
Middle-Earth washes Westeros
this video is… literally ai-generated 🤦♂️ please try harder with your content
Thanks for explanation you are a great guy knowing the difference between the differences between culture i believe death in real life feels more similar to me of Lord of the rings world 😅🎉
Why do Tolkien fans get butt hurt under every video and treat him as a god?
Ikr it's insane cause Tolkein literally said in his letters that he hates it when fans get like this
@@BigBroKuma i dont think its the matter of treating him like god its more of a matter of actually doing him right and actually reading his work and not deciding to make a video after watching the movies and a few youtube videos if he read even 1 book the silmarillion he would see that middle earth is not as black and white as he thinks
So it's very clear that this guy has not read ASOIAF
9:50 sorry but I have to say it, humans have no afterlife, they die just like in GOT(Tolkien called it true death) and its the humans deep desire for immortality that shapes the second age a lot
Butchered explanations for Lord of the Rings
Just admit asoiaf is clear
@@NRTHK-wv9sb it's not
@@Melkorsolostheverseyall complain about everything on every single video
Idk why you are comparing these two. It’d be more interesting to see you compare Tolkien’s work with the material he based it off of like the Völsunga saga.
cuz they are both popular?
Yeah ASOIAF is INCOMPARABLE
@@mr.slimeyt at this point I just see the fan base of both of these authors as cults.
They can, but there won’t be a big audience for it. The video may not even reach you:p
@waleed8211 relatively they aren’t comparable your right, they are both very different forms of fantasy, one optimistic and one pessimistic, not necessarily a bad thing but it’s true. But realistically they are comparable, Tolkiens world simply had much more work put into making the world great. The man spent 21 years world building before he published anything, this is just not found in got, so while they both might seem equal on the surface, the deeper you look into both you’ll find that middle earth IS UNDENIABLY richer and more full of quality content. I’m not dissing got but some people here are trying to put it at the same level as Tolkiens world and that’s just not feasible, R R Martin hasn’t been alive long enough to have put in the time that Tolkien did. Please feel free to argue but if you will do so cordially and not like brain dead shithead
Fist of all I want to make this clear awesome vid and can see that you put alot of work into it and I would very much like to see similar content from this channel.
But if you're going to talk about the lotr community plz do more research first.
There are alot to put out but I'll say the obvious ones.
・The tone of LOTR is much more sad, cruppted hero's (obvious ones being like saruman and Isildur→which I actually still consider a hero), And lots of hopeless situations. The epic and heroic part is true but like most stories there are alot of parts that aren't
・This is not really wrong but death for mortals is kind of unknown and is 100% not to the undying lands
・The influence is Wrong, sorry but as a Tolkien fan I have to say it a like harshly but Tolkien was a Professor of Anglo-Saxon at Oxford University! and had lots of influence from there!!!
・Good or evil is a hard part some evil men aren't really evil and are mere slaves of Sauron and Sauron himself actually believe it or not had some good intentions
・technological advancement is a hard topic some can argue that the rings were a advancement or sarumans bombs and uruk-hai (which can also be said it a forgotten thing) is also an advancement!
・For the maps... I dont't really get what difference you're trying to point out?
(Sorry i dont know about GOT that much so I cant really say anything about that part)
Non the less great vid and can really see you're love for both worlds!
I prefer ASOIAF/GOT
I think he's just talking about GoT, since he doesn't cover much outside the show, especially when he talks about the timeline, which is way more broad. Not saying he doesn't mention the books, but it seems more focused on the HBO series.
Dune vs The Wheel of time please 🙏
Would definitely love to have a relationship with an elf though for sure 😅
They're beautiful asl 😂 no-one would blame you.
@@BigBroKumaso true
so basically ASOIAF is way better than LOTR?
i haven't read the LOTR books, does anyone recommend it?
i saw the movies when i was younger and always thought they were pretty childish, and a "good-vs-evil-plain-boring" story
i hope the books are more complex
It's so much better, Tolkien and LOTR are looked at with rose tinted glasses and they have many vocal glazers
@@NRTHK-wv9sbthey're both good, but way to different to compare
Sorry, Martin will never beat Tolkien in any way that matters.
Westeros is so clear in terms of wordbuilding, and asoiaf is so clear in every conceivable level of storytelling
@@NRTHK-wv9sb Nah, and you smell bad.
good video! keep it up
Thanks, will do!
Kratos should kill the GOT gods
GOT gods are formless, they very similarly mimic the outer gods of Elden ring, both written by GRRM no coincidence
@@NRTHK-wv9sb GRRM you did it again
Damm, this video spreads so much miss information
bro read the first 100 pages of the silmarillion and you will see that its not as simple as you think the elves are not morally good not by far if you actually bothered to read the books before making this uninformed video it would be a lot better
Nasa
Thank you for this! You put to words why I dislike and/have very little interest in Tolkien and yet love GoT. I've never been a fan of fantasy bc of its naivety - good vs evil etc.
People have different preferences over things they like, Tolkien's works are meant and catered towards people that want to take a break from reality and immerse themselves in fantasy.
Martin's works are for people who love medieval Europe but the addition of dragons and a little bit of magic here and there while also including the harsh realities of the world.
@@onesidedunpure109
He didn’t criticized people who like LOTR.
I think your comment mostly based on LOTR story and movies in that case. As a Tolkien fan I worked lots of time on his works and I can say that there is no naive good vs evil in middle-earth (maybe it has in the LOTR story but not on the entirety of the universe). I dont know much about GOT world but as also a history nerd I can say Tolkien's universe is not less complicated ore naive then the actual history. But I also understand that Tolkien's other works then the LOTR story is not visualised and clearly writen on a novel so you have to do lots of researches and be very passionate about his complicated books to understand the world fully.
while some characters are ambiguous in Got/Asoiaf,there is a clear distinction on who is good and who is evil. The Starks/Tullys are good,their antagonists are the Lannister/Crownlands/Greyjoys who are evil (the Others are obviously evil as well). The ambiguity is often related to secondary characters or characters that may seem important but are not meant to play a relevant part in the greater picture. The same applies for Tolkien's works
@@niccologregorutti disagree
Got > LOTR
cap
LOTR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GOT
J.R.R. Tolkien>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>George R.R. Martin
@@Melkorsolostheverseage?
@@NRTHK-wv9sb 12
You are far from growing enough to comprehend mythos, lil bro. You have no idea what you are talking about, you are only exposing your own narrowmindedness.
Goddamn yall need to chill 😂
2:14 my man just roasted every religion
haha
what's the point if everyone knows the answers to the test? what's the point of putting in the effort to learn from the teacher's teachings if he can just provide all the answers on the day of the test?