Dennis MacDonald Destroys His Own Theory
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
- Dennis MacDonald and Mythivsion responded to my critique of his view and they said numerous things I was hoping they would say. We will demonstrate in this stream how problematic his theory is and how devoid of evidence it is.
Their response: • Dr. Dennis MacDonald D...
My video: • Did the Gospels Plagia...
The Civil War Imitated Homer: The Civil War Imitated Homer's Iliad!
Do Dying and Rising gods Prove Jesus is a Myth? - • Do Dying and Rising go...
Is the Story of Jesus Stolen From the Old Testament? - • Is the Story of Jesus ...
Did the Gospels Evolve? - • Did the Gospels Evolve?
Mythvision and Rationality Rules have continuously created this “bunker mentality” that I’ve seen in LDS apologetic circles in where you can’t trust the other side because they’re “too biased” or “have an agenda” or [insert handwaving statement]. I hope that to have future honest discussions we can stop questioning motives and just get to the arguments
When I see Atheists with this yapping, I always think of the scene of SpongeBob with Mr. Krabs saying "Boo hoo let me play a song for you on the smallest violin in the world".
Yeah if we had christians for example claiming the other side couldn’t be trusted… mythvision would’ve made a whole video talking about that… the double standard is insane
you have the same problems in Christian apologetics also, you just don't see it
@@AnalyticalSceptic you know, I don't see much of that in these circles.
@@AnalyticalSceptic textbook tu quoque fallacy
"These things should just jump out at you!" Only they didn't for thousands of years until McDonald. Hmm...
Apparently that's just because none of the writings of people who noticed the connections were copied down (this is a real excuse I've seen people make for this)
You would think that someone like anti Christians 2nd century Lucian or Celsus would have noted it, but they didn't.
@@truthisbeautiful7492 They also put all this onus on Mark who was nothing more than a pen holder.
We have Clement of Rome and Ignatius and irenaeus and others all telling us that Peter is the one who would preach in Rome and Mark simply wrote down what Peter was preaching.
Now Peter was a fisherman and only schooled to about the 5th grade level and only schooled out of the Torah.
He could probably read and write but not very well and not in anything other than Hebrew or Aramaic.
(A critical examination of first and second Peter reveals this).
So they put all this on Mark who did nothing more than hold the pin and write down what Peter said.
Every historical source we have concerning the writing of The book of Mark is both unanimous and Clement of Rome was actually taught by Peter and actually saw this occur.
So they're also being dishonest about the actual authorship as there's no way Peter would have been able to do this which is exactly why they went to Mark who was educated and probably could have done this.
But the real catch here is that the only source that they can find that has any parallelism whatsoever to it comes from Lucian who is obviously making fun of the Bible and even says he's making fun of the Bible.
Imagine if I took Robin Williams stand-up routine concerning the creation of golf as a sport by the Scottish and use that as an historical context.
No one would take this person seriously.
This is exactly what's happening here.
The song by AC/DC "Thunderstruck" MUST be about being visited by Zeus. There is no other reason why it would be named Thunderstruck.
nice
@@briandiehl9257 noice
The fact that IP came out with an original video, a civil war video, and a response to anticipated objections all while baiting Derrick into responding is chess level genius lol. IP is playing chess. Derrick is playing...tic tac toe? 🤔
Why is the idea that the gospel writers imitated mythology so important? It’s stupid and stretched.
Because it fits (the denier/athiest)'s conclusion. Funny because it could still be false and not imitating mythology (not that it is), but of course it suits their needs if it is merely imitating ancient mythology.
It's wild, so much naturalistic assumption and circular reasoning "it can be real because angels" "it's obvious it's copied because Argonauts are fisherman, and of course they would have to be fishermen because it wouldn't make sense as Argonauts at the time, so of course it's fishermen, which of course means Argonauts!" Such nonsense!
I’m more convinced than ever that the phrase “Dr.” has 0 bearing on whether someone has anything good to say after listening to Dennis.
I don’t even understand what the Legion/Circe comparison means, and it shows more than anything that MacDonald is desperate for connections rather than simply coming across them.
Let’s assume the premise - The story of Jesus driving the pigs off a cliff is a direct steal from the Odyssey. Ok, so what’s the point? How does a story about a female goddess turning sailors into animals relate to a story about Jesus driving demons from a man to a herd of pigs? It doesn’t. I don’t just mean that there are differences, I mean on a thematic level, there’s nothing to compare here. This Gospel story is to demonstrate that Jesus is the incarnate Son of God, having power over demons. The Odyssey story is to demonstrate Odysseus is a cunning character for being able to outsmart a goddess and save his men. Thematically, one is about the supreme power of the Almighty, the other is about an exceptional but still ordinary human triumphing over the gods.
It doesn’t even make sense that the Gospel authors would want to draw from this story. How does a story about a man tricking the gods help them prove you should convert to Christianity? It’s no use saying that audiences would think of Homer, you have to ask WHY they’d want to invoke Homer in this situation. And there is precisely zero reason why they’d want to invoke Homer in this way. It gets even worse when we bring the nonsensical Legion=No one comparison, because that was also a story of Odysseus triumphing over a supernatural being. Why would any early Christian want you to think of that possibility while reading the Gospels?
That’s the real reason this theory is bogus, not because MacDonald is wrong - though he is - but because it doesn’t make any sense for him to be right. There is no reason for the Gospel authors to try and make the audience think of Homer when it is counterproductive to the spread of the Gospel.
Dude water into wine...….You See!!!
The reliability of the gospels isn't unfalsifiable, it's just not false.
well said!
It is not true either.
When the Church was converting the Anglo Saxon in the 9th century the Gospel was written in paraphrase (The Heliand), it reads like Beowulf. Does that mean the Jesus story is false and it really derives from Anglo-Saxon alliterative verse?
No , DURRRRRR
@@DavidTextle It was obviously a clever, sarcastic comment.
9th century? The Anglo-Saxons had been fully Christianised by that point, only the Danish heathen would have practised paganism by then.
Wait until Donald McDennis watches "Jesus Christ Superstar"... we shall be forced to conclude that the Gospels were simply myth-making mimesis of the popular music of the mid-20th century.
"Around the time that the Heliand was written, there was a revolt of the Saxon stelinga, or lower social castes. Murphy depicts the significant influence the Heliand had over the fate of European society; he writes that the author of the Heliand "created a unique cultural synthesis between Christianity and Germanic warrior society - a synthesis that would plant the seed that would one day blossom in the full-blown culture of knighthood and become the foundation of medieval Europe." See wiki.
Conversion occurs over time, it is not a "jump over the broom" event. The Heliand helped integrate warrior culture of the AS into Christendom.
After seeing your two debates with Matt Dillahunty, I don’t know why you don’t have any more subscribers
🎶 Old MacDonald had a claim
EIEIO
No evidence that he could name
EIEIO
With a “quack quack” here, and a “quack quack” there 🎶…
this is actually funny 😭
No evidence of a Moses nor a jesus. Strange the most powerful god in the world and could not write.
@@mithrasrevisited4873 While Moses is debatable, there is PLENTY of evidence for Jesus. Even the vast majority of Atheist historians agree he was a real person. Jesus mythism is absolutely untenable
@@mithrasrevisited4873 Could does not equal would. What would you like him to have written?
@@mithrasrevisited4873 Do you believe that there’s sufficient historical evidence to conclude that Alexander the Great and Tiberius Caesar were real historical persons?
Literally Derek defends every single view against the bible like there's no problem with any of the views and yet some of them are completely contradictory. Derek is easily one of the dumbest atheists on YT. You guys are way too nice. I call things for how I see them. And if he wants me to not say he's dumb he will take an IQ test. Otherwise I can only go off what I observe continuously.
@@CHE-Undercover agreed. Nothing wrong in calling out a heretic and false teacher.
The moment he equates Argonauts to fishermen he lost me completely. You don't have to be a scholar or a Christian to realize how dumb that sounds, period.
Dr Doofenschmitz: The Bible copies SpongeBob
IP: no it didn't and here's why
Mythvision: look at this dishonest apologist
C'mon, Mike. Stop being a dishonest McPologist
Peeing on your leg is exactly the same as raining! It's a synchresis, use your imagination!
Good point
11:37 Well done Than
Is MythVision satire? Asking for a friend.
@@stuff2edit I literally was looking at all his videos and wondering if it was satire too. It’s embarrassing.
Nemesis theory . Os is simply a sophisticated, more advanced zengeist theory, and this attracts mythicists
Line Resident Evil Nemesis?
@@stalinjosefstalin480
He was much cooler .
IPs response videos are so much more effective when he stays low key. It really keeps people focused on his responses and makes them so much more effective especially when Derrick is by nature someone that seems to be bombastic. It makes it hard for people to believe IP is being "emotional" when all the emotional outbursts we see are being made by Derrick. Great job on this video!
The main character of Homer's writings is a guy but the main character of the gospels is also a guy, You SEE!!! its right in your face!!!
Powerful, powerful
The Legion-nobody parallel is so nonsensical.
If you asked one hundred people to give you a word that is meant to be the opposite of "nobody" you're probably going to find a decent amount of people bringing up a word used to indicate a large quantity in general, like "many", but how many people would bring up a word that has specifically to do with a militaristic context? you'd be lucky to find even just a few who'd use a word like "army" or the like, even more so would it be unlikely to find someone using a militaristic term that properly speaking applies to a specific culture, like legion, which specifically applies to roman armies, people would hardly connect the word "nobody" to something that specifically comes from a militaristic context and from a specific culture in particular.
Mark is presenting these demons as a Roman army, to suggest that he would have wanted his readers to take such an abstract tangent and link Legion to nobody because a Legion is composed of many people and so can be deemed an opposite of nobody is absurd because as an allusion it is too overly specific and cryptic....to make another analogy, i don't think of the navy seals as an opposite of the word nobody just because there are many people among the navy seals, i don't think of the word "phalanx" as an opposite of nobody because a greek phalanx is a body of troops and so can be said to be composed of many people.
I guess someone could try to salvage this by pointing out that the demons say that they are many, but that is still done to present them as an army.
Thanks for doing this IP! I would expect at least 10 different streams across channels like Mythvision and Rat Rules to this like there was with the whole Dionysus dispute. It’s complete damage control
1:25:35 it's amazing how they ignore the entire cosmology of Judaism to justify their swine theory. It's absolutely bunkers to me how this is passed as credible academia, MythVision should really reconsider what people he beings to his show.
Using my imagination RIGHT NOW.
Great song by Korn
@@rileymorgan2801 that was the best part! We just need to use our imagination! Lol 😆
Despite what MV people in chat say, I know I can trust you IP for the truth as always bro.
I can’t tell if this guy is really goofy or if you’ve just done a great job of poisoning the well with that entire civil war stream. Ronald McDonald’s train of thought mimics his joke counterpart exactly.
Is he serious? You need a greek orthodox to translate those texts? There are ancient greek scholars!
They're lying to those people who are not willing to do any research or examine the original text of each. In other videos I watched MacDonald uses Lucian’s context.
Case in point....
They're using Lucian which is a Roman name and they're using the context of Lucian which is satire meaning it's a joke and a play and Lucian was no fan of Christianity and his satire here is making fun of Christianity by mixing the two stories.
If you look at what Homer wrote and you look at what Mark wrote they're not at all similar.
I also don't know what Bible translation those guys were using when they drew the two parallels and it's quite telling that they don't even mention which Bible translation they are using.
Again, they don't mention the manuscript and they also lie about the number of manuscripts we have from the certain era of Homer versus the New Testament.
Wait ... mythvision didn't destroy you, IP? I'm shocked! Totally surprising and unexpected. (Sarcasm)
One day Dennis will stand before God. Imagine having to bring that silly theory before the face of the Almighty.
Will they come up with Richard Carrier next time….😂😂😂
I wouldn't be surprised. The skeptics are getting just that desperate.
Mars the Avenger was consider both a soldier and a deity of agriculture. Jesus was The Good Shepard and is also the Lion of Judah.
This is absolute proof of copying, and I will accept no arguments or counterfactuals.
Did Oppenheimer (the person) directly copy the story of Prometheus
Thank you guys for your work. I really really was existed to see thoses videos responding to McDonald's claims and by extend the claims of our favorite skeptic Derek from Mythvision. The Question for IP is at the end, you can skip to there.
I've been on those videos, hours and hours, to respond, to search. Hear me out, it's absolutely pointless, it's such a flow of nothingness and slippery slope, exagerations and just blatant lies.
Really the one that made me quit forever to his argument is about the Argaunauts being the base of the Story of Moses and Jesus ! And all was such terrible. Like it's a story about setteling ! Wow such wonderful point ! Wow ! And the wost are the videos about Dyonisos, Jesus with the disciples making their nests full of fish is somehow the same as Dyonisos transforming sailors into fish. Really the only parallels are that it's about fish and the sea. Really this was the nail in the coffin. All of their arguments really are so void, just comparing with really surface level of stuff. It's a same theme so it's the same. And it's my most massive argument against their theories, the amount of stuff they throw just show that they are just fabricating all. Really jesus is the Argaunauts, Eusedius, Dyonisos, Plato, Julius Cesare, and also the God in the Old testament is Dyonisus, and the stories are borrowed from Egypt, and Mesopotamia, and the Greek and the Hittites, and the People of the Sea. Jesus Dying and resurecting is like Inana, is like Osiris merged with Horus, is like all the dying and rising God, is like Baal, is like Plato, is like Cesare ... Really it's a pure waist of time. Horrible. So thanks.
Also before Mythvision was on the story of Jesus being borrowed from Homer he was in the proposition that in fact christianty was created by the ROMAN !!! Really he is in all conspiracy !
QUESTION(s) FOR IP :
- In one of his video, Mythvision brought a very very sus source that he didn't put in the description. This source was supposely Mark's letter to the Theophilios were he described that he borrowed from Homer direcly and blatently to him and that it was a well crafted forgery imitating the stories of the greek. This source was in one of his latest video on Mark Gospel being borrowed from Homer. I searshed but never found anything whatsoever on the subject and it wasn't listed in captation ! I think it was just a creation from a very very sus source or just a blatant lie. This video cannot be more than 6 month old but I don't remember exactly. If it happened to be false it could be a very good way to just destroy him for lies.
- Also he had a community post saying that Nazareth was a " little Greece " and we found a greek amphytheater. Wich was just a lie and it's in reality a city neighbouring Nazareth that was called like this and the discovery was made. So to push their narrative they just lie but onyt to their community ( it was a repost of Gnostic Informant.
So really good time to you. And for all mythvision fans, wake up. Their is a lot of people, skeptics, who disagree with him and who left him, it's not only people of faith.
2:05:56 Yes, Dr Michael Heiser released a podcast episode on the authorship of Isaiah: th-cam.com/video/TZWpptchdpA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=wH1vj7yfyNOthvJx
Thanks, guys! IP, I’d love for you to do a piece about the relationship between intertextuality and Biblical inspiration. I know you’ve done several videos that get at this, but I’d love to hear this discussed as the main focus. Mythvision and others seem to want to wield the issue of intertextuality like a sword against the throat of Christianity. You appear to be pretty unintimidated by this attack, and I’d like them to know why.
Woohoo! Every comment or chat on IP's channel should start with "woohoo!" 😂🤣
Like thinking pareidolia is not an illusory phenomenon, versus knowing it is and just having fun with it.
Look at a copy of the Septuagint and the works of Homer.
When you look at them for yourself you don't see any of the parallels mentioned here.
@Tenebris Sint would you agree Syntactically and grammatically, Isa 53:10b, אם תשים אשם נפשו, can be understood in three different ways: (1) “If you place (תשים) his life a guilt offering”; or (2) “If she places (תשים) his life a guilt offering”; and (3) “If his life places a guilt offering.”
Isaiah 53:4
Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed.
דאָכֵ֚ן חֳלָיֵ֙נוּ֙ ה֣וּא נָשָׂ֔א וּמַכְאֹבֵ֖ינוּ סְבָלָ֑ם וַֽאֲנַ֣חְנוּ חֲשַׁבְנֻ֔הוּ נָג֛וּעַ מֻכֵּ֥ה אֱלֹהִ֖ים וּמְעֻנֶּֽה:
If this is about Jesus and Jesus is god, then Hashem is smiting himself, oppressing himself, that’s incoherent.
Notice how the English translation is all past tense?
“He bore our illnesses” not “He will bear our illnesses”
“Yet WE accounted him as plagued”
That’s plural in the past tense.
Who’s the “we” (the narrator)?
Can’t be G-d or Isaiah as it would say I, or Adonai.
“We” are the gentile kings in Babylon speaking.
Isaiah 53 actually begins in the last few verses of Isaiah 52, and these verses occurred just after Cyrus the Great - the only messiah mentioned in Isaiah (45:1) - frees the Jews and they begin to return to Israel.
The suffering servant flees Babylon (Isaiah 48:20)… Babylon fell in 539 BCE, so it’s impossible for Jesus to be the Servant as Babylon hadn’t existed for over 500 years.
Isaiah 60:10-11 says the servant’s walls and gates will be rebuilt by their (plural = Israel) enemies. Jesus doesn’t have walls or gates, nations DO.
The servant and the messiah aren’t the same being, and neither are god by definition.
Servant - a covenant people created and anointed by G-d who flees Babylon and is redeemed by G-d (so the servant, like the messiah, sins). G-d cannot sin.
Messiah- a Davidic king created by G-d, who sins and must have 2 biological human Jewish parents, doesn’t die or resurrect, builds 3rd Temple, is anointed in said Temple, makes a sin offer for himself in said Temple, and has many offspring and lives for more than 1000 years. Messiah means “anointed”… it’s impossible to anointed god, only man can be anointed.
The messiah converts all gentiles to Torah Judaism… if Jesus was messiah, Christianity would not exist and you’d be an Orthodox Jew. The existence of Christianity proves Jesus was not messiah.
@@Tenebris_Sint I asked the question first can you please engage with it first and then we can talk about all the stuff you put under my comment.
@ No, because context matters. To understand Isaiah, it’s crucial to reads in context.
Isaiah 49:7-8 are right before Isaiah 53, Isaiah 49 proves the servant is Israel “a covenant people” created by G-d.
If Jesus was the servant, then Jesus was created by god… ergo not eternal, ergo not god.
As soon as a Christian claims he’s was messiah or the servant, they’re literally saying Jesus wasn’t god.
@@samwright3287 It’s really gonna hit you when you read Isaiah 53:8 and 53:10 in your Bible, then the original Hebrew.
Christians lied and purposefully changed 53:8 to make it appear to be about Jesus.
@@Tenebris_Sint Thats not an argument syntactically or gramatically its just assuming you are right plus most translators don't have "I have created you a covenant people" but rather have something like this "I have watched over you and given you as a covenant for the people" plus the word create isn't there in the text. Plus why does it have in isaiah 49:8 the preposition li infront of berith why is the coveant being given to the people if the people are the coveant. So please actually go back to my original question and answer syntactically or grammatically if you would accept those translations without appealing to isaiah 49.
MacDonald's Homeric theory has been strongly criticized by other scholars. I have yet to find one who accepts it. Glad you smashed him, but really, there are bigger fish to fry. There are propositions that present real challenges to Christianity. This simply isn't one of them.
The problem is MacDonald has gotten unbelievably popular online, so that is why we are addressing him more.
@@InspiringPhilosophy , I get you. People rely upon social media and videos for their "factual information". A bad and lazy practice, but such are the times in which we live.
Honestly IP, why spend your time on this? Its a completely ridiculous concept. If someone wholeheartedly believes this there will be no convincing them otherwise.
The people promoting this have almost 300k subscribers
Has anyone seen YMS’s video on The Lion King ripping off Kimba the White Lion? That’s what this whole thing reminds me of. (Details in my reply for those curious)
For those of you who don’t know: there is an assertion made that The Lion King’s story is exactly the same as Kimba the White Lion’s (which is like 2 series and 3 movies made in Japan). The similarities that are put forward are very weak, to put it mildly. YMS (a TH-cam channel) went through all the accusations and showed how each fell flat. Some comparisons were based on common tropes that were not created by Kimba, like the fact the lead had a love interest. This is like how these atheists see “thunder” and automatically assume it’s referencing Zeus, even though the Greeks did not invent thunder when they came up with Zeus. Other comparisons could only be made by changing the details of the story, like how Kimba threw dust in his villain’s eyes being compared to Scar throwing coals in Simba’s. They had to swap the hero/villain in order to make the comparison, much like how the atheists had to switch the hero and villain when comparing Jesus to Odysseus and asking an opponent their name. Other comparisons put forth made sense on some level but were too generic with understandable reasons behind them. For example, many of the animals used in the two properties were the same, but that makes sense as they are set in the same region on Earth. Likewise, the Gospels being written in a culture that was well aware of Homer would have at least a little bit of similarities. YMS points out that with all movies and episodes considered, Kimba is over 3,000 minutes, so finding/creating comparisons with a 90 movie is really easy even if those comparisons aren’t actually there. IP makes a very similar point concerning Homer and the Gospels. Also interesting to note is InspiringPhilosophy and Than both concede that Homer may have had some influence on the Gospels, just like how YMS concedes Kimba may have had some influence on The Lion King. In conclusion, IP and Than clearly just copied YMS’s entire video, and they need to give credit
Karl Olav sandes is better than Dennis on things he says
Karl assumes too many things
He's watched Oh, Brother Where Art Thou too many times.
Does Than moonlight in a blue hoodie and take on the pseudonym "Raxxanterax?"
Doh!
*JUST SAW U IN WISE DESCIPLE THAN.*
i was scrolling late at night, looking for something that could help me break out of this cycle of feeling unnoticed. i kept seeing people mention this ebook, Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki, so i gave it a shot. i didn’t expect much, but this book completely changed the way i carry myself. it’s not about acting different, it’s about unlocking something that’s already there.
I.P explain the following .
Why does genesis 2 4 ~ 7 place the creeation of adam on day 1 of creation .
Also, explain how Eve is the " mother of all living " if under your understanding of genesis 1 and 2 Adam and Eve are created after the creations of humanity in genesis 1
Leaving this comment just to keep up with the responses
@@thebigbadrascal3398very much appreciated
@@thebigbadrascal3398 appreciate it
th-cam.com/video/x41Cq643bzE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=f67_cJFweTMNg8_i@@RamadaDiver
🍻
26:31
1:26:02
Is it true that millions or 100, millions of people are leaving churches or any other religions? Is there any data at the back to this up? The only reason I’m asking because I saw this under a debate video or is it just some Reddit atheist and type of stuff
Nominal/cultural Christians now feel little societal pressure to maintain a facade of piety, so they are giving up on church. Many of them are still believers, however; church is NOT required to be a Christian. At the same time that this attrition is rising in the west, however, Christian conversions are skyrocketing in the rest of the world.
@ thank you
11:03
So you didn't grant a single parallell but we are supposed to believe that you agree with Sandness? 🤣
16:49
@@Rocky-ur9mn Go back and watch the original video where he went over the parallells one by one, he didn't grant a single one.
There MAY be parallels, but these are superficial and accidental. MacDonald suffers from apophenia.
@@mysotiras21 That’s not Sandness view
@@z388z , should I care what his view is?
You are going to have to explain the Exorcism of the Gerasene demoniac. It only takes ONE example to seal the deal.
what is this "deal"?
@@ScarletPhoenix0 if just one mimesis is established then one cannot claim that mimesis was never used, thus making the NT NOT an inerrant biography.
@@ScarletPhoenix0 Research your Roman history and you will find that one of the legions in Judea at the second revolt had the wild boar as it's standard.
@@dunk_lawyou have to establish it in the first place.
also what does the wild boar standard have to do with anything??
@@ScarletPhoenix0 so you are going to try to argue that the demoniac scene happened as described? So tell me who would have been hurding a thousand pigs in the place and time of jesus?
i used to sit there watching how some people just had this effortless pull. they didn’t even try, but everyone noticed them. i thought it was just something you were born with. then i read this ebook, Magnetic Aura by Takeshi Mizuki, and it explained exactly why some people have it and others don’t. it’s not luck, it’s energy. after making a few small shifts, i saw the difference. it’s crazy how much changes when you actually understand what’s going on.
First read in context:
Isaiah 49:7-8
כֹּ֣ה אָֽמַר־יְהֹוָה֩ גֹּאֵ֨ל יִשְׂרָאֵ֜ל קְדוֹשׁ֗וֹ לִבְזֹה־נֶ֜פֶשׁ לִמְתָ֤עֵֽב גּוֹי֙ לְעֶ֣בֶד מֹשְׁלִ֔ים מְלָכִים֙ יִרְא֣וּ וָקָ֔מוּ שָׂרִ֖ים וְיִֽשְׁתַּחֲו֑וּ לְמַ֤עַן יְהֹוָה֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר נֶאֱמָ֔ן קְדֹ֥שׁ יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל וַיִּבְחָרֶֽךָּ׃ {ס}
Thus said GOD,
The Redeemer of Israel, his Holy One,
To the despised one,
To the abhorred nations,
To the slave of rulers:
Kings shall see and stand up;
Nobles, and they shall prostrate themselves-
To the honor of GOD, who is faithful,
To the Holy One of Israel who chose you.
כֹּ֣ה ׀ אָמַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֗ה בְּעֵ֤ת רָצוֹן֙ עֲנִיתִ֔יךָ וּבְי֥וֹם יְשׁוּעָ֖ה עֲזַרְתִּ֑יךָ וְאֶצׇּרְךָ֗ וְאֶתֶּנְךָ֙ לִבְרִ֣ית עָ֔ם לְהָקִ֣ים אֶ֔רֶץ לְהַנְחִ֖יל נְחָל֥וֹת שֹׁמֵמֽוֹת׃
Thus said GOD:
In an hour of favor I answer you,
And on a day of salvation I help you-
I created you and appointed you a covenant people-
Restoring the land,
Allotting anew the desolate holdings,
“I created you and anointed you a covenant people.”
That cannot be Jesus, Jesus isn’t a covenant people and if Jesus was created, he is not eternal, ergo not G-d.
Bro forgot John 1:1
Isaiah 51 has a "Word" for you.
@ John was written almost a century after Jesus died, it’s not messianic prophecy.
@ Cool cite the exact verse.
Isaiah 51 is not Isaiah 53, try to stay on topic.
@@wraves693 Isaiah 53:1
Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed?
אמִ֥י הֶֽאֱמִ֖ין לִשְׁמֻֽעָתֵ֑נוּ וּזְר֥וֹעַ יְהֹוָ֖ה עַל־מִ֥י נִגְלָֽתָה:
Who’s the “our report” referring to? It can’t be G-d or Isaiah as it would say “I” or “Adonai.”
Notice how “believed” and “revealed” are in the past tense?
To Isaiah 53 was written in PAST TENSE PLURAL, it’s talking about something which has already happened c. 539 BCE, not about the future.
I'm suddenly wondering how I ended up following you. I'm only 19 min into this and stopped bcuz I'm so bothered by how you implied the Bible was even somewhat inspired by some sorta fiction writer.
God wrote the Bible. It is a full and complete work of fact and history and the writers of it were inspired by nobody but God. God put those words in their heads and they wrote it down. Of course there's going to be writers of fiction that sound similar. We're all created by God and the demons who influenced those fiction writers to write things not of God for entertainment were of course aware of God's stories and plans bcuz they're fallen angels. But the Word of God is not inspired by anyone but God and in fact Jesus is the Word made flesh! The entire Bible was complete in heaven before God even created the earth!
So the fact you suggested biblical writers were inspired by anything or anyone but God is straight up heresy. I must've accidentally subscribed to you without realizing how bad you guys are. Maybe one of my friends from another denomination sent me a short video of yours and I hit subscribe not knowing.
Idk what kinda church y'all go to but if you believe anything except that God wrote the Bible then you are following false doctrine and plz find a new church prbly.
You have a wrong view of inspiration. The Bible itself quotes other authors, even those not inspired, here's one example among many:
Titus 1.12 One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.”
Literature does not develop in a vacuum. The NT documents are no different. It doesn’t mean God didn’t inspire it but merely the fact the authors in a sense reflected the environment that they developed their works in. Paul quotes pagan philosophers in Acts and subtly alludes to Aristotle in Philippians.
@@therookie3797 the Bible isn't literature. God told them exactly what to write. As a pentecostal evangelical who's seen folks speak in tongues they don't know, you cannot tell me God can't put words in people's mouths or have them write it. Those words were dictated by God same as the words in the Bible. If secular authors matched it it's bcuz God wanted common things referenced to be more relatable and I doubt Paul or any other writer of the Bible was fully aware of what they were referencing at the time of writing.
@@MsMercyMorgan the bible isnt the quran, God didnt magically put a perfect book into the authors minds like allah did to moo-hamid. He inspired yes, but he worked through human authors and the cultural refrences for the time for each of the writers.
@zainelaw2697 where do you think the writers that said that of Allah got the idea? They steal stuff from other faiths.
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Really these apologist really cannot accept anything wrong with their fairy story book. Really fellas, you question him with a bible with talking animals and magic tricks in it. Incredible the lack of self awareness. The gospels were written in greek were decades and centuries later and contain unknown authors and mimick the greek fables. They just are not allowed to question their own fairy story book here.
Did this comment make you feel smart?
Im curious where you get this info that the gospels are written 'centuries' later
LOL!!! We CAN and DO accept VALID criticism of the Bible. MacDonald is a CRANK. NO serious expert on the Bible, including atheist experts, agrees with his BS.
It WAS rejected by 95% of scholars (who had no training in classical studied). Things are changing and he is getting traction.
source?
also this is an argument from popularity, which is a fallacy
@ScarletPhoenix0 not in scholarly circles. It's all about recognition which takes time for the arguments to get digested.
@@dunk_lawScholars have already responded to Macdonald. The reception of his theory is overwhelmingly negative due to reasons such as: inconsistency and weak evidence
@@ScarletPhoenix0 Classical Greek Models of the Gospels and Acts Studies in Mimesis Criticism Edited by Mark G. Bilby, Michael Kochenash, & Margaret Froelich - just one example.
@@dunk_lawhow have other scholars responded to that paper? Is the paper falsifiable?
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