INDUSTRIAL METAL Essential bands debate with Liisa Ladouceur | LOCK HORNS (live stream archive)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ย. 2015
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Join us for the live stream of LOCK HORNS, a weekly live streamed show debating the various genres of Banger’s Metal Family Tree.
Episode three: Industrial Metal features host Sam Dunn and guest, writer Liisa Ladouceur (@LiisaLadouceur).
We'll be reading your comments in real time throughout the show but you can start the debate now in the chat: what Industrial Metal bands need to stay on the chart, and which ones need to go? And who are the new (2005-present) essentials we should be adding. Ready? Fight!
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There's still a lot of potential for industrial metal. I feel like it can still be taken to a whole another level. There's not that many bands that play this style of metal nowadays.
@Witchcraft Destroys Minds & Reaps Souls I completely agree with you.
Author and Punisher kind of has in a way
Street Sects are great. Uniform have their fans but I don't care for them that much. The Body didn't start out industrial but they've shifted toward the genre over the years.
One of biggest industrial metal killers is the NDH (the style used by bands like Rammstein, Megaherz or Oomph), at least it killed industrial metal scene in my place (latinamerica) because the people in their ignorance started to think that industrial metal is just metal with synthetizers.
It's needs a rebirth/come back
3TEETH is a new Industrial Metal band
Check out Filth Pig. New industrial metal band and they are brutal.
If 3Teeth would be included, Orgy should have stayed.
It's bugging me that the NIN magnet is upside down. The first "N" is not supposed to be backwards. None of the other bands magnets are upside down. What gives?!? Lol... End rant.
Different band. Nails Inch Nine.
dude - previous episode nightwish is told to play power metal and the bitch self-claimed to be the first ever female trained metal singer....fokin joke at the least
Aaron,your concern is justified...ur's not a rant..But ,NIN isn't straight up Industrial metal band..they would fit on to another chart
@@Highcastle_of_Tone Nine Inch Nails
I'm a huge fan of Industrial Metal (and Industrial in general), so I'm going to write a long post that hopefully sheds some light on the music. Basically, it's hard to define Industrial Metal because it sort of splinters into two categories:
KMFDM-style Industrial Metal - Extremely rhythm-based, more groove-oriented, usually electronic-influenced, and features a "dancey" sort of vibe. This is the style of Industrial Metal that went mainstream, so when most people think of Industrial Metal, they are thinking of this.
Godflesh-style Industrial Metal - Heavily influenced by 80's-era Swans, this style is a lot more abrasive. While most Metal bands use guitars for riffing purposes, Godflesh used guitars to create soundscapes, giving the music a more textured, atmospheric sound. The music is not really "dancey", but has more of a crushing doom/sludge/drone sort of vibe (Author & Punisher, who were mentioned in the video, are a good example of this).
As a result of this splinter, you get bands that sound nothing alike being categorized in the same genre, which is where a lot of the confusion and uncertainty comes from. I'm a much bigger fan of the Godflesh-style and have a lot of favorites that weren't mentioned, but they are fairly obscure though and probably wouldn't be considered notable/influential enough to appear on the chart.
I do think Strapping Young Lad are unquestionably Industrial Metal. Most of Devin's influences are Industrial Rock bands (Killing Joke, Cop Shoot Cop, Grotus) and SYL sounds to me like a heavier extension of what they were doing. SYL even did a Cop Shoot Cop cover on their City album ("Room 429")
As far as new bands, it's hard to make recommendations because although there are a lot of Industrial-tinged bands out there these days, a lot of them are hybrids. Stuff like Blut Aus Nord (mostly the 777 series), The Axis Of Perdition, Corrections House, and P.H.O.B.O.S. These bands combine Industrial with other genres, so it's debatable if they are Industrial enough to go on the chart.
I've heard this being referred to as Monolithic Industrial Metal.
Well said,
Just off the top of my head, five bands I would mention... Soulstorm, P.H.O.B.O.S. Dogpile, Sonic violence, Dead World.
all those are great esp. Soulstorm, P.H.O.B.O.S., and Dead World. btw what about An Axis Of Peridition?
KMFDM!!! Very underrated band. I think they are one of the best industrial bands and they are still rocking to this day.
I wish I was around for this discussion. 16Volt, Bile, Cubanate, Die Krupps, PIG, Vigilante is a great new band, The Berzerker should of been added. FLA only had a couple albums that were industrial metal. The main problem with this sub-genre is most of the bands are well hidden in the underground.
oh Berzerker should've definitely been added. industrial goregrind/deathgrind
I'm proud of a spotify platilist I made featuring industrial metal Big 4: Ministry, Godflesh, Fear Factory and KMFDM; big names: Rammstein, White Zombie, Killing Joke; death and black metal with industrial elements; Zyklon, Anaal Nathrakh, The Berzerker and bands that carry the true industrial metal more traditional sound like Red Harvest, Mechina, 3teeth. Plus most of the bands mentioned here.
fungifago I think Filter should be in there as well.
@@Grimeyhoob maybe some tracks, but I consider Filter more industrial rock
How do I find it on Spotify?
Awesome. Interesting show as always. Hail Bangers TV.
NIN is not strictly industrial metal, but they have a lot of metal tunes. especially pre-2000.
@Darth Bane Broken is more Industrial Noise Rock
NIN is Industrial Rock
Mad props for Author and Punisher shoutouts. This is a good example of a newer band that is doing something innovative enough to be worthy of note. Watch his videos to see why. He's a one man band.
Marilyn Manson should definitely be added, I don't think there's any arguments that Marilyn Manson is industrial metal, and they're one of the largest bands on the list.
Does it bother anybody else that the NIN logo is upside down?
Sigh. Yes.
+BANGER wow! Thanks for the response. All the same, keep up the great work and all of the killer content.🤘
Nice Death Angel shirt Sam.
Love the series, cannot wait for the thrash ep :)
I loved your first film!! Dad bought me it and watched it several times!!
Love this tree! Some of my favorite bands!!
Would have love to have seen Misery Loves Co. They were AMAZING.
Reaktor 4, Sektor 304, Skin Chamber, Dodheimsgard, Samael, Scorn, Thorns - names that need to be on that list.
Aborym, Mysticum, Nailbomb, Scorn, G.O.D. and The Berzerker as well
i love how lisa explained that industrial is its own world that evolved absent metal and then joined into metal. i think that explains more the evolution of goth, and synthpop. which synthpop is very similar to industral metal but without the hard riffs
Nine Inch Nails may not be metal per say, but they're incredibly important to the genre, I'd keep 'em on.
Metal Meltdown Reviews exactly, even if NIN not metal, not mentioning Trent Reznor Industrial Band, would be hugest mistake
@@kidtsunami3993 well plus. NiN may not be entirely metal. but they have metal tracks throughout the discography and I'd personally consider broken metal
NIN is a metal band,not Insrustial Metal
@@KatyReminiec9399 NiN is very clearly industrial. Hell they lean more towards straight up industrial than industrial metal. What are you talking about?
NIN is not a band.
StaticX is industrial metal band. So much skinny Puppy on the first album fist band I heard and called it Industrial Metal
In '86 i was making industrial metal when NIN and Ministry were doing Pop music.
I want an episode of this with Liisa's goth tree! Maybe on her own channel though. I haven't read her book, but from what I could make out in this video, there's a lot of stuff there I feel doesn't belong. I loved this episode, this was the first episode I watched after a discussion with an acquaintance (and now it's 7 AM, whoops). I happened to mention to them that Liisa wrote a book with a goth family tree, and they linked me this series, and in the first one that caught my eye, there Liisa was, wow! I agree with her on everything here.
very nice to see Liisa debating, hope to see her more again
I thought she was a good addition as well. I disagree with her on NIN though. I thought their first 3 albums were defiantly metal - Pretty Hate Machine (Alternative Metal), Broken (Industrial Metal), Downward Spiral (Industrial Metal).
They may have turned into an Industrial Rock band, but their origins or roots were metal.
It'd would be cool if it was available as a podcast! Show is still awesome!
Deadstar Assembly, Psyclon Nine, Crossbreed, Front Line Assembly, Dawn Of Ashes, Celldweller, Hanzel Und Gretyl, Columbine, Gravity Kills (Ind. Rock), Stabbing Westward (Ind. Rock).
A few interesting newer bands in the genre who have taken the sound in some different directions: Autokrator, Tyrant of Death, and Umbah.
As far as later industrial metal goes, I think Red Harvest is underrated. Sick Transit Gloria Mundi is a killer record.
Do bands like Genghis Tron, The Berzerker and Plague Bringer count, that have a grindcore influence?
What about front line assembly
They're just Industrial
Millennium is a questionable album. Good songs but also some not so great ones...
Only Millenium album is Metal (if you consider sampled guitars from Pantera Metal). They are EBM/Electro-Industrial in 90s. After 90s their style is more experimental and poppy (well, FLA was always a bit poppy).
Like Skinny Puppy, flirted with Metal elements at some point in their career, but still primarily electro-industrial.
more ebm
I've watched this episode 6 times now
KMFDM could be on here, though I know its a little more rock with dance stuff, I think the two FLA albums count as Industrial Metal too
What about Pain? I always thought that they were an industrial band. Or are they only relevant to northern Europe?
I would like Lisa's book. Any links as to where I can get it?
Sister machine gun.
Was such an underrated band and fantastic
Metropolis is one of my favorite albums in industrial metal of all time
Lisa, good job @ ringing the bell that the most important portions of the show & weighing in on the lest important part of metal; ie needing guitar, calling BS ass list.
Subscribed tho, so not a complete troll....
Any chance of adding a Post-Metal genre? Or more episodes after Mathcore? If not, is there anyway to hear about some other choices in the tree such as AC/DC and Motorhead in NWOBM vs. Early Metal UK like Priest?
Another thing I noticed happening is electronic Bass music plus industrial plus rock-metal, is getting mixed. Like Celldweller/Circle of Dust, Blue Stahlli, Zardonic, voicians, Rabbit Junk, and some Pendulum songs like “Comprachicos”.
Mechina, Sybreed, Pain, Celldweller, Breach The Void, Mick Gordon, Deathstars and others were excluded... Also there are many alt metal/industrial hybrid bands that could potentially fit here, everything from Static-X, Linkin Park, Marilyn Manson, Adema etc.
I feel like you could make the argument, and it's a stretch or it depends on how you wanna cut it, that Full of Hell might qualify by blending Power-Electronics and Grind/Hardcore.
will you be doing a show on Power Metal ?
okay so I missed the stream, and I know that the set a standard to have a guitar to count as industrial metal, but Author & Punisher is absolutely savage, and my favorite industrial experience
wow, dissing Die Krupps, influenced the whole entire, German Industrial scene
One band that seemed important in the mid nineties was Misery Loves Co. They certainly influenced me at the time
I don't know... To me Static-X first two albums "Wisconsin Death Trip" and "Machine" have that industrial metal structure.
They were industrial metal, most definitely. Problem was, they got popular when the nu-metal scene hit its peak, so most people labelled them as a nu-metal band.
Bunbepe,I agree with you about Static X
Holy shit why I didn't know about this awesome stream?????????????????? D:
I love this about metal fans, if they arent playing in metal band or listening to their favourite metal band, they are debating bands and genre with passion. Love it!
+JustDSBM You can't say that Ministry and Godflesh aren't Industrial Metal.
Dear Banger,
When you revisit this please consider Mortiis, one my favorite industrial metal bands. In my opinion a band aligned with the definition of Industrial Metal. A great band from Norway that was inspired by the darkness of black metal but embrace the industrial part. The band has been around since 1993.
One other band which should be strongly considered is "Kovenant" with a "K." Another Norwegian band influenced by black metal with industrial elements. This band's balance between Metal and Industrial teeters to the Metal side. Strong sci-fi influence in look and lyrics. There are some cold sounding female and male clean parts wich add to the space vibe.
I know I am commenting on videos really late, for that my apologies. I recently discovered the channel. I loved Headbanger's journey and I am so glad the legacy is moving forward. Thank You to Sam and the whole Banger team, \m/ Cheers \m/!!
This genre has so much potential but the bands often fall flat, either being too metal or too electronic. Striking a balance is rare... I think the best band for the past decade has been Turmion Kätilöt from Finland!
Everybody check out the band called “KLANK” the album “Still Suffering” year 1995 it’s badass ! Should be on this list for sure !!
For the record, I was half-joking about Static X being disco. That was based on Static X's own admission that they're music is described as "Evil Disco".
Do they have a category for folk (and perhaps pirate) metal ?
+Eastyy's blogspot Folk Metal is coming!
+Eastyy's blogspot Oh thank God I'm not the only one! Alestorm, Finntroll, Ensiferum... Yeah!!!
There is actually a new industrial scene from Europe and especially from France... Bands like Herrschaft and Shaârghot are not really famous yet, but they're craving for it and really bring fresh air in this scene.
The Amenta ,Red Harvest ...newer bands that should go on the list
I'm happy Author & Punisher made it up there.
I remember hearing devil music vol 1 after buying it , I also remember my girlfriends 3 year old standing in front of the speaker dancing to thunder kiss 65. good memories great CD.
There are a lot of bands can be tagged more than one label. Fox example, in my opinion, Fear Factory's music has elements of industrial metal, death metal and groove metal.
Cubanate and Bile and Treponem Pal and Hanzel und Gretyl and Rouska thank you
Fucking shit. It's been some years since I ever saw a comment from a BILE fan. (that wasn't on their videos)
Yeah, BILE most certainly belongs on the list. They influenced the American side of the scene quite a bit in the '90s, and the industrial elements in their sound are undeniable.
Thank you for recognizing Hanzel Und Gretyl. I got to see them open for The Genitorturers,and they killed it.
Mortal? Chatterbox? Klank? Drown? Brainchild? Circle of Dust? Lots of the lost gems, and there's many more.
PAIN needs to be on here. Also, one band that is moving the genre forward is XERATH, they have strong sounds of Symphonic, Progressive and Groove metal, mixed in with their industrial sound. Check them out!
i think this is a very accurate list for industrial metal.wudnt mind if u included kmfdm as well.but still a solid list
I would like to also add some bands not to forget to mention on the industrial metal list: Diabolus Rising / Dawn Of Ashes / Von Mollestein / Swamp Terrorist / Gost.
MALHAVOC!!!!! yes...thanks for the mention
Sam, i am Manuel, from Perú ...i was Nin, Rammstein and Orgy not industrial metal...but Skrew, Circle of Dust, Front Line Assembly, Kmfdm...yes!!!...it's industrial metal 😎😊👍👍👍👍
Bands such as Skin Chamber, Circle Of Dust, Meathook Seed, Bile, Skrew, etc... in my view, wouldn't exactly go on the "official tree". But I would put them on a list for those who wish to go even deeper into Industrial Metal. As for Swans, they deserve a nod, just like Killing Joke, for being influential on some Industrial hybrids, including this one. Nailbomb is not industrial enough to belong. It kinda sounds like "Arise" with some industrial elements.
13:15 Goshdarnit, Liisa, there *is* such a thing as industrial thrash! Malhavoc, Nailbomb and Uniform are all prime examples! >:|
I will say, though, that industrial thrash as a distinct subgenre, especially now, is much less of a thing than industrial black metal-what with bands like Blut Aus Nord, Aborym, Dødheimsgard and An Axis of Perdition all proudly carrying that torch; and what's more, most of the early industrial metal bands with a distinct thrash element wound up leaning into either more mechanistic or groovy textures over time. Strapping Young Lad and Fear Factory come to mind as particularly representative of that groove/post-thrash element in a lot of thrash-based industrial metal. On the other hand, you have the post-Godflesh doom/sludge side of industrial metal, which I think is less discussed because it's maybe a bit less accessible. Author & Punisher and The Body's recent stuff is a good example, not to mention Primitive Man, Lord Mantis and Indian on the less mechanical, more power electronics-y end of things.
Very nice
Not an expert on the genre, but always enjoyed it!
While prob not so much the metal side....no honorable mention of Einstürzende Neubauten, is surprising!
Fall of Because, Nailbomb, Christdriver, Eisenvater, Landfill, Spine Wrench, Skin Chamber, Sin, Bleed - I really miss these bands in your video.
7 years later I will suggest the Swedish/Dutch band "Peace Love & Pitbulls". Released their debute album in 1992.
I've only heard slight hints of nu-metal in Static-X's sound, mainly in the records that were written with Tripp Eisen during his tenure in the band. The albums with Koichi Fukuda all have a more aggressive and heavier sound, with a huge emphasis on industrial and groove.
Honestly, I think all the Static X songs sound so similar that I can't hear a difference. Luckily I somewhat enjoy that sound so I have the majority of their tracks.
Pitch - shifter - Industrial, was the bridge that connected the two.
A few comments here:
1. The Berserker is one of the (if not the) prototypes for cybergrind, kind of like Fear Factory and SYL pretty much set the template for cybermetal (and bands like Sybreed, Mnemic, The Interbeing, Raunchy, Dagoba, Oblivion Machine, etc.). I'd argue that both cybermetal and cybergrind are offshoots unto their own at this point.
2. Most people thinking Killing Joke didn't turn into a heavy industrial band stopped listening to them at some point in time. They've made some seriously heavy shit in recent years. 'Hosannas From The Basements Of Hell' is one of my favorites from them.
3. White Zombie never felt like an industrial metal band to me. It was early groove metal. Drums, guitars, bass, vocals. No loops, not a lot of synths, no obvious editing. There was some heavy use of samples, but seemed more for the sake of Rob's love of movies than to too awful much of fusing of electronics with metal. Rob's solo stuff is far more industrial metal, or heavy industrial rock since Sam requires all metal to be X amount of 'thrashy" to be metal... well, unless it happened BEFORE thrash that is. :-p
4. Nine Inch Nails, as popular as they've been, is a somewhat experimental industrial rock band. Like Liisa says, other then Broken, there's not much ripping or chugging guitars anywhere in NIN's catalog. It's a lot more progressive in certain ways than anything, just in the unique ways he puts stuff together.
5. There were a crap ton of GREAT industrial metal (much less debatable than nu-metal or straight up EBM/industrial) that were around during that time: Circle Of Dust, Drown, Misery Loves Co., Ugly Mus-Tard, Red Square Black (John 5's band before Rob Zombie), 2wo (Rob Halford doing industrial with John 5), Klank, Treponem Pal, Skrew, Shotgun Messiah (later), Skold... the list can do on-and-on if you dig. It was kinda a thing.
6. Nailbomb was an industrial metal project/album. It was exactly what Max and Alex were trying to do. Guitars were looped on samplers, drum machines, etc.
7. I hate Manson. I really do. But, his band IS a heavy rock band that most definitely has some roots in industrial... not near as much as others, but it's there, mainly in the production. And frankly, you need to ditch the 'Shock Rock' category all together. It's nonsense. It's not a type of music, it's an aesthetic. There's no musical identifiers for shock rock. It's like "pirate metal" or "viking metal". They're essentially just folk metal with a pirate motif, or a viking motif, etc.
8. Where the fuck is Pain, by the way?
aww
Honorable Mentions: Grotus, Psyclone 9, Earth Born -Malformed, Red Harvest
Any of the last three Shining (NO) albums are truly innovative industrial metal albums with a lot of jazz influences, would definetely argue that if any new band should be added to this list it's them!
Yeah, Mnemic should have definitely been mentioned, and I think there is definitely a case for Shining being linked to industrial metal, especially as an evolution of the genre since they kept asking for something new.
+Banger for bands Like Devin, as well as bands like Neurosis the heavily experimental sounds and the lack of definable genres to their discography. there should be a branch sitting next to Prog Metal Called Avant-Garde or Experimental Metal because there is certainly a difference between Prog and Experimental and many bands can fit under the banner of the latter band like Enslaved could also fit the bill.
I can't wait to see which category Gojira is going to be put in.
+Cory D I predict prog metal
Well it's a year later, but I would have liked the mention of Scorn, Meathook Seed, and Treponem Pal, as some early 90s Industrial bands
Thanks for reading my input during the show! Will these changes evantually lead to a changed tree or can we have a site page that shows all the branch in some way? I can only find your tree via Wikipedia and google images.
+Riley Rowe We're working on new graphics!
+BANGER Awesome, thanks! Here's a cool example I've found that might be nice to reference.
Oh and also...how soon is the Deathcore episode going to be?
Mnemic and Sybreed were very much industrial metal influenced while they existed. Synthetic Breed from Australia is pretty much industrial metal. Maybe not too famous bands, but I think they were/are popular in the last ten years.
Nice video but I have to say you guys miss lots of European band such as deathstars, lame immortelle,dope stars Inc and others, but I think fans of this kind of music needed this video so thanks. One more point deadstar assembly a good American industrial band...good luck
If you go to bandcamp page there is alot of newer industrial metal bands but probably just not mainstream so that why people don't know much of any newer ones.
+Chris Kimmel youtube also bro, there is a long list
True. That's how I found out about 3Teeth last year. These guys are getting bigger and I hope they do. Industrial Metal needs new blood in the mainstream.
Good to hear Malhavoc brought up in this discussion.
Hail from Brazil!!!!I Luv BANGER!!!!
Seplutura:
Beneath the Remains
Arise
Chaos A.D.
Three of my favorite albums!!!
\m/
Just saw killing Joke in London and they sounded very industrial even those they came out of the post-punk era.
Celldweller, Circle of Dust, Mortiis, Blue Stahli, 3Teeth, Youthcode, Hypomaniacs, Ghostmane, Pitchshifter, Megaherz…
the industrial nu-Metal bands such as static x need there own branch as nu metal kinda had its own sub genres such as the industrial leg of it such as static x, dope, orgy etc. the regular nu metal leg such as korn, coal chamber and slipknot and the rap metal leg (the less spoken about that one the better)
One thing is industrial metal xd but proto industrial bands are: cabaret voltaire, die krupps, skinny puppy, nitzer ebb, bigod 20, front 242, lol
Was Combichrist mentioned?
Also I believe Fear Factory, hands down, are the purest form of Industrial Metal
But they also differ from the other bands on the chart as they have that death metal part in their music.
I'm wondering what anyone thinks about Blood Stain Child being in this category? Ryu is great on the guitar and there is definitely an electro industrial element as well as death metal vocals.
I understand that the industrial metal tree was hard to talk about, but Static-X does count as industrial. They fit the category perfectly. Even in the later days of Static-X before they split the industrial elements were there.
I know this is an older video, but I just saw it, so it's new to me. As far as newer bands for this list, where is Hanzel und Gretyl? Also, as far as the stuff out of Germany, Eisbrecher might be a good add to this list...
Eisbrecher was influential for newer NDH bands, but Oomph! deserves much more attention. Their influence reached definitely larger territory.
SKREW from Texas, several of the guys from Angkor Wat started this band and ended up working with NIN and Ministry...
I think one of the most important bands in industrial metal history was Die krupps. Many bands got influence from this band, also Rammstein, who copy a Tier´s riff from The Dawning Of Doom (Die Krupps).
they suck so
oomph!
I don't think you can discount Prong by saying they are groove metal if you have White Zombie on the list, stylistically they are very similar. If anything Zombie is the more groove oriented band.
I've always thought mostly Rude Awakening was more industrial metal and maybe a little bit of Cleansing to. I thought the rest was more thrash though.