The Great War Glad you liked it! We followed this up with some ballistic testing on reproduction armor, which you can see here: www.full30.com/video/de2b44d88992230423dfb0c7a5ef9374
The Great War, Indy and Ian should join forces and do a special episode! A counter attack of information to the masses of inquiring minds that seek to expand our knowledge of history!! The I's have it!
mickeybill Actually laughed when I seen it all. To be honest, I don't find much appeal in Lugers, although I UNDERSTAND why people like them. I prefer my Webley Mk.VI, though I would of course want some of those contraptions from back in the day that help in quickly reloading them.
Lol "this is a Kevlar vest. archaic right? this wouldn't stop a high energy particle beam from a kids toy. but this was the highest level tech available for Frontline troops."
Well, kevlar vests are just a modernized version of fabric armor. Fabric armor, such as gambesons, is the single most universal and important piece of armor in human history, also one of the most effective too. Padded garments like gambesons were worn to battle by pretty much everyone everywere in every historical era since the paleolithic, because stacking a bunch of layers of fabric has always been the most efficient method of saving your ass from projectiles and blades. In the history of armors, steel plates are overrated.
Well as of 2017 our armour is pretty damn good. You can encase your entire ribcage in rifle-stopping steel or ceramic. In terms of "what's trying to kill me" versus "what can I wear to dissuade that" modern troops are as protected as soldiers in antiquity or the medieval ages.
I get the feeling that people seem to disregard the value armor can have if it doesn't give you 100% full life protection. I'd rather be in a hospital bed for about 5 months rather than being prematurely buried in a ditch.
To think that, even in antiquity and the middle ages, peasants would still wear effective armor (gambesons and such) when called to arms. But during modernity, lower-class human lives were comparatively seen as disposeable. It took a while for technological development of armor to have the incentive to really catch up to that of weapons; and it basically involved going back to gambesons, quilted layers of fabric, or plate. (BTW, "modernity" as a historical period means between the late 17th and early 20th centuries. Late 20th century was not modernity anymore, modernity ends in the early 20th century and we enter the _contemporary_ historical era. Like, Descartes was a modern thinker, whilst Foucault was contemporary.)
For what it's worth, these days, soldiers are usually given pretty good protection. It was maybe 1914 to 1975 that infantry was poorly protected and disposable, with the only real protection being helmets (which, in fairness, have probably saved a million people over the last hundred years, minimum). Since then, we've developed armors and stuff capable of actually keeping you, if not 100% safe, at least prevent you from dying when you get shot. If you're really lucky, you'll just get a nasty bruise and have to get some new gear, but more often you'll just get some broken bones and go to the hospital for a while as a result.
They didn't have the means to make effective armor in the early 20th century, the bullets were too powerful for traditional metal armor to be viable and they had no means to make anything more advanced. Helmets were designed to prevent deaths from artillery strikes and continue to be used for that purpose today, serving much the same purpose that hardhats serve to construction workers: namely preventing falling debris from cracking your skull open.
During WWI there were several attempts to develop and use personal armor. Particularly by observers and "snipers" going into No Mans Land between the battle lines. At first these worked well, then soldiers on both sides sent messages home requesting to have their Big Game hunting rifles sent to them on the front. The Big Game rifles had enough power to punch through the steel armor (being light enough for one or two men to carry) and fairly soon the attempts to use armor was dropped because steel was much to heavy to use when you had to move forward, or backward. Remember, the standard battle rifles of the day were 30.06 (US), 303 British (UK) 7.92 Gewar 98 (German). All of these cartridges generate more kinetic energy than the Intermediate 5.56x41mm or 7.62x39mm commonly used in todays military. Even today, body armor strong enough to stop these rifle rounds are much to heavy for a soldier on foot to wear / carry all day long. The USA could use them in the "War on Terror" only because the soldiers rode in vehicles to the battle site, dismounted for patrols, firefight, then got back in their vehicles to move to the next position. Battle field body armor is mostly to protect you from shrapnel and indirect fire. Though it is proven to save many lives, which is why you always wear your helmet.
oh they did... heck, they'd barrage front trenches of the enemy side before their own infantry try to assault it for this, they can expend ludicrous number of shells and you can read various records of WW1 describing the hell on earth these barrage creates to the front trench (and the infantry hiding inside it) even in WW2 where trenches are not as common, artillery are still used extensively to wipe out infantries, both against infantry in open or infantry in defensive position. artillery were in fact not particularly effective against tanks, and far more useful against soft targets like infantry because artillery shells usually need a direct hit to cause non superficial damage to tanks (unless the artillery shell is absolutely massive) which is why anti tank guns were created, since the best way to kill tanks really was to fire high velocity armor piercing shell directly at the tank... not by using high explosive shell indirectly.
Iono Sama artillery then was just sending a bunch of mortars and hoping it kills a big number, they werent accurate, just highly deadly and something you dont want to be under
Thomas Anderson not entirely the heavy artillery yes they were not accurate, but no that did not stop both sides from using them heavily to bombard the trenches and infantry concentration, a job they in fact do a lot judging from the shells they expended for operations in some operations u read in WW1 history for example, the heavy artillery can fire incredulous number of shells in a relatively short duration to soften up forward defenses (trenches, fortifications, troops etc) and the second type of artillery of course were the light artillery like field guns etc... these were much more accurate than the heavy artillery as they fire in a more direct manner lobbing either high explosive or shrapnel shells... VERY deadly not surprisingly since they were much more accurate and were intended to smash most things containing infantry.. be it their trench points, machine gun locations, fortifications of any kind, or massed infantry assault (which with shrapnel shells will basically turn into swiss cheese in an instant if the gun can be brought to bear in time and placed correctly)
The three interlocking rings are indeed the company logo of former Friedrich Krupp AG in Essen, Germany. The companiys history is fascinating and it turned Essen from a small Town into what is now Germanys 9th largest city at 600000.
Mr. Mars Experience Dude, look up Simpson Ltd... they literally have a storage room FULL of Lugers. Christ, they basically cornered the market. There are a lot in this video, but its nothing compared to them. I think Ian actually did a tour of their facility once? Older video I think, but im sure i saw it?...
sergeantbigmac i hate when companies or people do that, buy up all of certain guns or ammo to artificially restrict the market and make the prices jump up
We all would have done it if we had the chance. I heard that when you can sell food you destroy it to increase the prife. I'd just storage it until the price is right (like grains, I'm not talking about food that spoils)
Using armor on modern soldiers was a completely new concept in 1916. Only 2 years earlier nobody would have though of issuing steel helmets so they really had to find out the most effective way to use armor on a modern battlefield. There were a lot of strange constructions by almost every major army in WWI.
+Mathias Bartl Mounted Prussians and Polish troops going back even before and later during the Napoleonic wars had steel plated cuirass with a similar goals. They were even given a bullet test before being distributed as a quality control test that it would work.
Kinda crazy that Europeans used to wrap themselves in full plate armor only to abandon that once guns came around and then to put armor plates on once again lol
When you include cavalry, armor plate never really stopped. Considering cav is going to be lesser in number (because it requires more training, more resources, etc.) than infantry, not to mention their vital role as flankers/fast attack units, armoring your cavalry to some extent was a logical step, especially against smaller, slower projectiles (pistols, shrapnel, etc.). This has continued into the modern day, only not in the form of horse-mounted cavalry but rather armored vehicles, both IFV/APC types of things and of course the tank.
I got my friend a reproduction M1916 stahlhelm with the extra armoured plate to attach to the front of the helmet for his German WW1 airsoft setup. Neither of us were prepared for how damn heavy that extra plating was. Needless to say he cannot use the extra plating for airsoft games due to practicality reasons but it still looks awesome.
I know the tank crews of the English army had a mask with steel shutters across the eyes and a mail mouth cover, just as a bit of protection from gunfire and shrapnel. Chain mail or hauberks were likely not used due to them really not being effective against piercing weapons (like bullets).
@@codeydewey8924 they were only used against fragmentation of the tanks armor it it was hit on the outside and splinter of it were flying around inside... reason simple enemy concentrate fire on vision slit there were some crazy designed masks for tanker in ww1 c8.alamy.com/compde/pb9ye9/der-tank-crew-gepanzerte-maske-pb9ye9.jpg
This is my sappenpanzer. It panzers my sappen. The steel plate helmet attachment is called a "stirnpanzer", the strap that went through the slots at the back was leather and sown shut: you couldn't remove it. It also looks like the belts holding the different plates of the chest armor together are replacements of the original papercloths.
"Hello, i'm Ian. Thank you for tuning in to another video of "Forgotten Armour dot com" and what i have for you today is a very nice japanese "Do Maru" set of armour..."
I've wondered for the last 50 years what the "Frankenstein" bolts on German WWI helmets were about. I even asked a couple of WWI American Vets who had seen combat in France and Belgium and they didn't know. One of them suggested it must have been part of the manufacturing process. By 1918 I don't think the front helmet armor was widely used by German soldiers. As you point out it was very heavy and uncomfortable to wear. One of these two veteran friends had been in action where they overran German trench positions and took prisoners. The fact he had no memory of ever seeing that front helmet plate arm our among front line German troops suggests they weren't using them by 1918.
@@jackapgar5824 Correct, it served as both ventilation holes and the points where you would attach a brow plate. The latter intention was abandoned in the ww2 era when stahlhelms were manufactured with shorter ventilation holes, and the holes were eventually ditched with the Bundesgrenzschutz' M53 stahlhelm.
Or just didn't notice, I imagine with the whole 'getting shelled and shot at', carefully inspecting your opponent's helmet is not high on your shopping list.
@@jabloko992 Yeah i was going to say, you'll probably be in some state of shock if you've just stormed enemy trench positions lmao, you probably don't notice too many details
Dimitri Petrenko Yeah the SN-42 could stop a pistol bullet pretty reliably in closer ranges and was because of this very effective in close combat, they used them a lot in Stalingrad. They were too heave to use out in the fields though.
bami2 irrelavant comment... obviously we are talking about modern combat in which you would not often see bodyarmour which makes that the more interesting...
so I'm looking at world war 1 videos and such after purchasing battlefield 1 and doing research for the sake of enjoying history...and find a comment from one of Bubblegum Gun and Pepito Flores' anime shitpost friends having a regular discussion about history. whatta ya know
To clear up the Markings: They are the Logo of Krupp (Company) , Essen is a city in which Krupp had extensive Steelworks, so the combination makes sense. Though the Logo itself only denotes Krupp.
The armor was almost exclusively for MG gunners, but the helmet attachment was a part of the original design and used by not only MG gunners but also anyone that was expected to poke their head above the trench more than your average soldier (sentinels, spotters etc), although as the war went on and trench weaponry became deadlier and deadlier the trenchscope became the preferred way of keeping an eye on the frontline.
Ian, I love your videos. But if you have any humor in them, it has been lost on me. However, I was cracking up 30 seconds into this one. Actually LOLing. Your dry delivery was perfect. "Can I just get some grenades?" Bravo sir, for another excellent, informative video.
I've heard people explain why plate armour stopped making sense, but just 15 seconds of the beginning of this video showed me more than I could ever be told.
well it stopped working because full power rifle cartridges were widely used now that intermediete cartridges are used there are plenty of soldiers on the frontline in ukraine rn using steel plate even if they would prefer ceramic
But the dude who wore it was from Italy and it was way more armor than these two pieces. AND he also took rifle shots point blank. (In the campaign for how short it was)
My great grandad wore chainmail for trench clearing in WW1 he was in the Durham light infantry and survived the whole war from the very start fighting till 1918 when he was hit with shrapnell and sent home .
We’re so accustomed to the image of a classic jousting helmet that I assumed the helmet plate rotated downwards to protect the face. Very interesting that it really just is a solid thickness adder to the forehead and not some articulating piece, but it makes sense.
A gorget is a seperate piece of armor worn around the throat, not something built into the breastplate. It fills much the same role and there were some earlier breastplates with comperable features, but they're not the same thing.
Ian I have to say it brother, I love your video;s, I live in the UK and we don't get to own the stuff you guys do, It's great to see all the historic weapons. Regards Cliff
that manufacturer mark is the symbol of the Krupp Company located in Essen a City near Düsseldorf in Northrhine-Wesfalia. The Symbol is still part of the logo of Thyssen-Krupp after the fusion of the 2 companies
Hello and thank you for nice videos. For me the best gun videos on youtube. You have a nice voice and it's easy listening to you. Greatings from Sweden. /Per
Don't make too much of a joke out of this. Using armor at all in a modern war was a completely new concept and nobody knew were it would end. All nations at war tried out concepts until, over time, the more practicable usages would evolve.
The three interlocking rings are the company logo of Krupp, the arms company that also built alot of german artillery and invented the train wheels used on the first pacific railway.
Forgotten Weapons compared to modern armor...Not too horrible...I think our IBA body armor in the Army weighed 40lbs plus helmet, rifle and our pack...Something like that would be interesting in AR500 lol...
Ned Kelly thought of body Armour against rifle fire before the Germans or the British. His Armour covered his front, back, and head. The Armour only failed because his legs were exposed and he tried to fight the police in the open. He walked through their rifle fire as if it did not exist. He was taken down because they kept shooting his legs until he collapsed.
Thoughts: Helmet reminds me of Hitler's hat, it had similar thick steel plates hidden under his oversized hat. This helmet guard might of inspired it. Am a little surprised the chest plate wasn't as rounded out to deflect bullets. But still well thought out with that net guard. This suddenly threw me back to the armor used Ned Kelly used. It had proved to be surprisingly effective against large caliber weapons before he was captured.
As I suspect from all the markings on German elevators, these interlocking circles are the Krupp manufacturers mark. Today it is named Thyssen-Krupp and has a bow above three interlocking circles. As the bow is the Thyssen manufacturers mark, the circles are Krupp.
+Clueless Nitwiticus it would be useless. but the Germans where innovators every one copy's them or learns from there mistakes. I know they use steel plate in armor now about the same thickness like AR500. but i don't know how they make them, i don't think there straight steel like they say.
+Clueless Nitwiticus It would be pointless... Unless the shrapnel was coming at you from the front.. That is 50-50 chance of shrapnel injury.. I'll take that over 100% chance of shrapnel
WWI snipers started loading bullets backwards in their cases to punch through metal plates. I'm pretty certain the poor sap wearing this stuff would not want to get hit by one of those.
Nack Jicholson I spent 5 seconds typing: "ww1 sniper backwards bullet" into Google. You should try that. And yes, it is dangerous and did sometimes backfire; but it was a thing both sides did in WW1. They eventually made specialized overpressure rounds with steel-cores which were slightly safer and more effective.
+VERY NIIICE they actually did that, especially against tanks early on as they didnt had any other means to fight them, the thing about it was that it was very dangerous and could if you were unlucky kill you instead
A long time ago, I watched this video with my friend. Shortly afterward _during that same day_ we went to this popular restaurant and bar in San Francisco called _Tommy's Joynt_ that's a local staple there known for hearty meaty meals and good deals. It's also known for it's kitschy interior decorating with walls are by antiques, junk, and knick knacks. I noticed her staring intently at something, and she pointed out that it, there was a Grabenpanzer adorning a dimly lit area over the stairs.
That stuff (minus the extra plate on the helmet) would have been the cat's ass... about 600 years ago... as long as nobody on the other side had arquebuses.
Nah. Armour from the past is far better to wear.....isnt heavy and doesnt restrict your movement(there were cutouts to shoulder the weapons.) and rested on the waist which makes them really light on the wearer(and they werent as thick as this on). This german one is much heavier and thocker and hangs from shoulders.....which is a terrible design
It's useful for hand to hand combat for obvious reasons. It's also gotta have a psychological affect on anyone you came up against to fight hand to hand as well. Prussian toughs who were the original stormtroopers liked to wear them when they could and get into close contact with grenades, bayonets, trench axes and shives.
+adam foye and then fireing them both off simultanously as the you get hit but nothing can pen you but eventually someone manages it and you fall to the ground as you pull the triger of both lugers for the last time, it suddenly goes slowmo you can see the catridges slowly dropping down into the dust reflecting the sun of the light as you drop on the floor, the foe that just hit you landing next to you. the camera zooms out and goes black. do you mean like that?
+Freya Valentine That imagery needs John Woo's white doves taking flight, as he dives into the trench with dual Lugers, shooting six Frenchmen before landing in mud.
I read somewhere that helmet plate would actually stop rifle bullets, but because of weight of the helmet itself, and transferred energy from the bullet it would snap soldiers neck
***** Just from a physics perspective, I'm pretty confident that is hooey. Also, I've seen video of guys in Afghanistan take a hit to the helmet and not die of a broken neck. Concussion would be the actual potential result.
indeed, the bullet might be stopped by the helmet and save the person wearing it from a head shot, but, it was useless. It was so as knock back from a bullet hitting the armor plating on the helmet was so intensive that in most cases it broke the neck of the soldier wearing it. if i remember correctly, in some armies they even called them "death cap" or something like that
kokofan50 it may sound like but that's the truth. consider the weigh of the armor addon and the amount of kinetic force on the bullet impact. humans neck doesn't have enough strength in most cases to sustain that amount of power
Sirees333 Bullets don't have that much kinetic energy. People can punch and kick with more force than bullets. What makes bullets so dangerous is that the energy is concentrated into a small area.
With the beard and armor he looks like a Spanish conquistador
NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH IANQUISITION!
Michael Gill lmfao
SPANISH INQUISITION RESTARTS DURING OPERATION MICHAEL
@@dmgill83 dammit I was going to pull that joke.
Jay Steele the thing is, the armor worn by the conquistadors probably were more effective and had more shoulder room for a rifle
That was both entertaining and informative. Thanks.
The Great War Glad you liked it! We followed this up with some ballistic testing on reproduction armor, which you can see here:
www.full30.com/video/de2b44d88992230423dfb0c7a5ef9374
Forgotten Weapons Will do, thanks.
The Great War, Indy and Ian should join forces and do a special episode!
A counter attack of information to the masses of inquiring minds that seek to expand our knowledge of history!!
The I's have it!
Indy
Brings me joy that y’all are TH-cam friends
Is he sitting in front of a cabinet FULL of Lugers?
mickeybill Yes, he is.
Forgotten Weapons I have never been more jealous in my life!
Daniel Taylor Simpson Ltd has more or them. LOTS more...
th-cam.com/video/kbdk0K35h0w/w-d-xo.html
mickeybill Yeah. Wonder why they cost so much? Yeah, jerks at Simpson Ltd have about 120000000x10^8 lugers.
mickeybill Actually laughed when I seen it all. To be honest, I don't find much appeal in Lugers, although I UNDERSTAND why people like them. I prefer my Webley Mk.VI, though I would of course want some of those contraptions from back in the day that help in quickly reloading them.
someday a guy like Ian is going to be talking about how derpy our current armor systems are.
Lol "this is a Kevlar vest. archaic right? this wouldn't stop a high energy particle beam from a kids toy. but this was the highest level tech available for Frontline troops."
And kevlar is already getting old as we speak.
Well, kevlar vests are just a modernized version of fabric armor. Fabric armor, such as gambesons, is the single most universal and important piece of armor in human history, also one of the most effective too. Padded garments like gambesons were worn to battle by pretty much everyone everywere in every historical era since the paleolithic, because stacking a bunch of layers of fabric has always been the most efficient method of saving your ass from projectiles and blades.
In the history of armors, steel plates are overrated.
Well as of 2017 our armour is pretty damn good. You can encase your entire ribcage in rifle-stopping steel or ceramic. In terms of "what's trying to kill me" versus "what can I wear to dissuade that" modern troops are as protected as soldiers in antiquity or the medieval ages.
Mako Reizei
Girls und Panzer character ^
I get the feeling that people seem to disregard the value armor can have if it doesn't give you 100% full life protection. I'd rather be in a hospital bed for about 5 months rather than being prematurely buried in a ditch.
To think that, even in antiquity and the middle ages, peasants would still wear effective armor (gambesons and such) when called to arms.
But during modernity, lower-class human lives were comparatively seen as disposeable.
It took a while for technological development of armor to have the incentive to really catch up to that of weapons; and it basically involved going back to gambesons, quilted layers of fabric, or plate.
(BTW, "modernity" as a historical period means between the late 17th and early 20th centuries. Late 20th century was not modernity anymore, modernity ends in the early 20th century and we enter the _contemporary_ historical era. Like, Descartes was a modern thinker, whilst Foucault was contemporary.)
For what it's worth, these days, soldiers are usually given pretty good protection. It was maybe 1914 to 1975 that infantry was poorly protected and disposable, with the only real protection being helmets (which, in fairness, have probably saved a million people over the last hundred years, minimum). Since then, we've developed armors and stuff capable of actually keeping you, if not 100% safe, at least prevent you from dying when you get shot. If you're really lucky, you'll just get a nasty bruise and have to get some new gear, but more often you'll just get some broken bones and go to the hospital for a while as a result.
They didn't have the means to make effective armor in the early 20th century, the bullets were too powerful for traditional metal armor to be viable and they had no means to make anything more advanced. Helmets were designed to prevent deaths from artillery strikes and continue to be used for that purpose today, serving much the same purpose that hardhats serve to construction workers: namely preventing falling debris from cracking your skull open.
The armor when shot by a rifle created spalling and shrapnel and deforming the bullet, making it do more damage. Pistols worked
During WWI there were several attempts to develop and use personal armor. Particularly by observers and "snipers" going into No Mans Land between the battle lines. At first these worked well, then soldiers on both sides sent messages home requesting to have their Big Game hunting rifles sent to them on the front. The Big Game rifles had enough power to punch through the steel armor (being light enough for one or two men to carry) and fairly soon the attempts to use armor was dropped because steel was much to heavy to use when you had to move forward, or backward.
Remember, the standard battle rifles of the day were 30.06 (US), 303 British (UK) 7.92 Gewar 98 (German). All of these cartridges generate more kinetic energy than the Intermediate 5.56x41mm or 7.62x39mm commonly used in todays military. Even today, body armor strong enough to stop these rifle rounds are much to heavy for a soldier on foot to wear / carry all day long. The USA could use them in the "War on Terror" only because the soldiers rode in vehicles to the battle site, dismounted for patrols, firefight, then got back in their vehicles to move to the next position.
Battle field body armor is mostly to protect you from shrapnel and indirect fire. Though it is proven to save many lives, which is why you always wear your helmet.
"Artillery caused more casualties in WWI than rifle fire by a long shot."
Har har har Ian, very droll.
Douglas West Oh, that one went over my head.
Bart Bols
That went right over your head by a long shot.
***** artillery...long shot....do you get it now?
Quinten Sarn lol
+Martin Willett lol for you...
3 interlocking circles were the brand label of the Friedrich Krupp Steel Factory, located in Essen, Germany.
Top bit of info. Thank you.
Arno Schmidt It's still the company logo to this day.
ArkadiBolschek Only as part of the ThyssenKrupp concern.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/8/8c/ThyssenKruppLogo.svg
Arno Schmidt Exactly! ^^
Arno Schmidt 6:00
"artillery caused more casualties in ww1 than rifle fire by a long shot" - pun intended? ;)
nice
Nice pun but Artillery was mainly used for taking out other artillery or tanks, rarely used for infantry
oh they did... heck, they'd barrage front trenches of the enemy side before their own infantry try to assault it
for this, they can expend ludicrous number of shells and you can read various records of WW1 describing the hell on earth these barrage creates to the front trench (and the infantry hiding inside it)
even in WW2 where trenches are not as common, artillery are still used extensively to wipe out infantries, both against infantry in open or infantry in defensive position.
artillery were in fact not particularly effective against tanks, and far more useful against soft targets like infantry because artillery shells usually need a direct hit to cause non superficial damage to tanks (unless the artillery shell is absolutely massive)
which is why anti tank guns were created, since the best way to kill tanks really was to fire high velocity armor piercing shell directly at the tank... not by using high explosive shell indirectly.
Iono Sama artillery then was just sending a bunch of mortars and hoping it kills a big number, they werent accurate, just highly deadly and something you dont want to be under
Thomas Anderson not entirely
the heavy artillery yes they were not accurate, but no that did not stop both sides from using them heavily to bombard the trenches and infantry concentration, a job they in fact do a lot judging from the shells they expended for operations
in some operations u read in WW1 history for example, the heavy artillery can fire incredulous number of shells in a relatively short duration to soften up forward defenses (trenches, fortifications, troops etc)
and the second type of artillery of course were the light artillery like field guns etc...
these were much more accurate than the heavy artillery as they fire in a more direct manner lobbing either high explosive or shrapnel shells...
VERY deadly not surprisingly since they were much more accurate and were intended to smash most things containing infantry..
be it their trench points, machine gun locations, fortifications of any kind, or massed infantry assault (which with shrapnel shells will basically turn into swiss cheese in an instant if the gun can be brought to bear in time and placed correctly)
The three interlocking rings are indeed the company logo of former Friedrich Krupp AG in Essen, Germany.
The companiys history is fascinating and it turned Essen from a small Town into what is now Germanys 9th largest city at 600000.
And only 40 million people had to die to accomplish that! Go, Krupp! x)
90% of the worlds lugers are in those cases haha
Mr. Mars Experience Dude, look up Simpson Ltd... they literally have a storage room FULL of Lugers. Christ, they basically cornered the market. There are a lot in this video, but its nothing compared to them.
I think Ian actually did a tour of their facility once? Older video I think, but im sure i saw it?...
sergeantbigmac i hate when companies or people do that, buy up all of certain guns or ammo to artificially restrict the market and make the prices jump up
Mr. Mars Experience Ya I agree entirely, but it is cool to see their collection. Its the biggest im aware of anyway...
Mr. Mars Experience Like Diamonds
We all would have done it if we had the chance.
I heard that when you can sell food you destroy it to increase the prife. I'd just storage it until the price is right (like grains, I'm not talking about food that spoils)
Using armor on modern soldiers was a completely new concept in 1916. Only 2 years earlier nobody would have though of issuing steel helmets so they really had to find out the most effective way to use armor on a modern battlefield. There were a lot of strange constructions by almost every major army in WWI.
+Funny Farmer French Cuirassiers still had breastplates and helmets at the beginning of WW1.
+Mathias Bartl Mounted Prussians and Polish troops going back even before and later during the Napoleonic wars had steel plated cuirass with a similar goals. They were even given a bullet test before being distributed as a quality control test that it would work.
Kinda crazy that Europeans used to wrap themselves in full plate armor only to abandon that once guns came around and then to put armor plates on once again lol
When you include cavalry, armor plate never really stopped. Considering cav is going to be lesser in number (because it requires more training, more resources, etc.) than infantry, not to mention their vital role as flankers/fast attack units, armoring your cavalry to some extent was a logical step, especially against smaller, slower projectiles (pistols, shrapnel, etc.).
This has continued into the modern day, only not in the form of horse-mounted cavalry but rather armored vehicles, both IFV/APC types of things and of course the tank.
"Can i just get some grenades instead? Or a machine gun?"
Lars van Wijgerden and thus the mp18 was born
A Lange Pistole 08 would be good.
With that armor, shit give this man sword and shield!
I'm sure a lot of soldiers have asked that throughout history, with minor difference in context and language.
Flashbacks to Avanti Savoia
I got my friend a reproduction M1916 stahlhelm with the extra armoured plate to attach to the front of the helmet for his German WW1 airsoft setup. Neither of us were prepared for how damn heavy that extra plating was. Needless to say he cannot use the extra plating for airsoft games due to practicality reasons but it still looks awesome.
German Stormtroopers: Can we have Tanks?
German High Command: We already have Panzers at home.
Panzers at home:
th-cam.com/video/jeIGuCof97A/w-d-xo.html
"Still, it beats a bullet to the forehead " hahah
I think that both the Axis and the Entente used medieval style mail coats as protection against shell fragments or inside the early tanks.
Augschburgball You mean the central powers.
I know the tank crews of the English army had a mask with steel shutters across the eyes and a mail mouth cover, just as a bit of protection from gunfire and shrapnel. Chain mail or hauberks were likely not used due to them really not being effective against piercing weapons (like bullets).
@@codeydewey8924 they were only used against fragmentation of the tanks armor it it was hit on the outside and splinter of it were flying around inside... reason simple enemy concentrate fire on vision slit there were some crazy designed masks for tanker in ww1 c8.alamy.com/compde/pb9ye9/der-tank-crew-gepanzerte-maske-pb9ye9.jpg
Axis = WW2
Entente = WW1
Retardeano
central powers = WW1
Allies = WW2
This is my sappenpanzer. It panzers my sappen.
The steel plate helmet attachment is called a "stirnpanzer", the strap that went through the slots at the back was leather and sown shut: you couldn't remove it.
It also looks like the belts holding the different plates of the chest armor together are replacements of the original papercloths.
Sappe is an old term for ditches in sieges.
Wearing this armor limits your movement capabilities like a stormtrooper
*_...WAIT_*
He should make a channel called forgotten Armour
"Hello, i'm Ian. Thank you for tuning in to another video of "Forgotten Armour dot com" and what i have for you today is a very nice japanese "Do Maru" set of armour..."
@@leximatic fucking weebs
Just go to metatron
Bri ish?
I've wondered for the last 50 years what the "Frankenstein" bolts on German WWI helmets were about. I even asked a couple of WWI American Vets who had seen combat in France and Belgium and they didn't know. One of them suggested it must have been part of the manufacturing process. By 1918 I don't think the front helmet armor was widely used by German soldiers. As you point out it was very heavy and uncomfortable to wear. One of these two veteran friends had been in action where they overran German trench positions and took prisoners. The fact he had no memory of ever seeing that front helmet plate arm our among front line German troops suggests they weren't using them by 1918.
+Jonathan Hansen They are air vents.
maybe to attach helmet covers, extra armor, face gaurd, or gas mask fittings. Thatd be my guess
@@jackapgar5824 Correct, it served as both ventilation holes and the points where you would attach a brow plate. The latter intention was abandoned in the ww2 era when stahlhelms were manufactured with shorter ventilation holes, and the holes were eventually ditched with the Bundesgrenzschutz' M53 stahlhelm.
Or just didn't notice, I imagine with the whole 'getting shelled and shot at', carefully inspecting your opponent's helmet is not high on your shopping list.
@@jabloko992 Yeah i was going to say, you'll probably be in some state of shock if you've just stormed enemy trench positions lmao, you probably don't notice too many details
I already have a feeling why they stopped using these:
US solider:“They are in our trench?, where?”
*clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk clunk*
“The Germans commissioned 500,000 sets”
So your tellin me there’s a chance?!
Can we have space marines
Mom: we have space marines at home
Home:
"Still beats a bullet to the forehead, though."
"still beats a bullet to the forehead, though"
well said.
Really nice vid, i'm a fan of early military Bodyarmour, especially between and in both world wars so this is a real treat.
Knechtor The Russians used armour in WW2 aswel, looks similar to this, shocktroops used this mostly.
Dimitri Petrenko Yeah the SN-42 could stop a pistol bullet pretty reliably in closer ranges and was because of this very effective in close combat, they used them a lot in Stalingrad. They were too heave to use out in the fields though.
bami2
I know, but i meant the modern application of Bodyarmour.
bami2 irrelavant comment... obviously we are talking about modern combat in which you would not often see bodyarmour which makes that the more interesting...
so I'm looking at world war 1 videos and such after purchasing battlefield 1 and doing research for the sake of enjoying history...and find a comment from one of Bubblegum Gun and Pepito Flores' anime shitpost friends having a regular discussion about history. whatta ya know
That's really cool. Looks like a crossover of a Roman soldier setup and a bomb disposal unit kit.
looking back on an older video from forgotten weapons, I didn't even realize Ian had a lisp, He's done a good job at getting rid of it over the years.
To clear up the Markings:
They are the Logo of Krupp (Company) , Essen is a city in which Krupp had extensive Steelworks, so the combination makes sense.
Though the Logo itself only denotes Krupp.
Thanks for posting this. I've always wanted a better look at that armor, and never found any good pictures or videos of it.
2:04 My hand move when I see that many lugers.
Another awesome video. Love this stuff Ian. Thank you so much for all your obvious passion and hard work.
The armor was almost exclusively for MG gunners, but the helmet attachment was a part of the original design and used by not only MG gunners but also anyone that was expected to poke their head above the trench more than your average soldier (sentinels, spotters etc), although as the war went on and trench weaponry became deadlier and deadlier the trenchscope became the preferred way of keeping an eye on the frontline.
Thank you Ian for your videos. Really enjoy history
At least Ned Kelly's helmet protected his face as well.
Thanks again Ian for another great informative video.
it's amazing to see how far we've come in terms of personal armor
Jason Armstrong haha yeah we're at the same exact spot basically xD
I normally don't comment on videos, but I just wanted to tell you that I love you, Ian. I really love you.
Love old body armor. Many times they had a proofing shot in them. With the radial shape of the brow plate it would have been effective
Ian, I love your videos. But if you have any humor in them, it has been lost on me. However, I was cracking up 30 seconds into this one. Actually LOLing. Your dry delivery was perfect. "Can I just get some grenades?"
Bravo sir, for another excellent, informative video.
Maybe this needs to a part 2, where they go to demolition ranch to see how effective it is :-)
Nobody talks about this, it really saved (and took) a lot of lives.
It looks like a Spanish Conquistador ended up fighting for the kaiser.
Mystery solved! I had always wondered why German helmets (WW1 & WW2 era) had those 2 distinctive nubs. Thanks Ian!
Hey guys! Welcome back, I'm Ian LaSpina...
that armor is unimaginably rare. I doubt most people realize how incredibly rare that armor is. especially in that condition.
Do u think u have enough Lugers
No such thing
Those WWI Stahlhelms were so cool!
I think perhaps this armor was made for someone with a much wider chest than ian.
A barrel-chested German machinegunner who had to carry all his equipment would have been the first choice
@@jonathanwells223 almost certainly named Gunther or Wolfgang
I've heard people explain why plate armour stopped making sense, but just 15 seconds of the beginning of this video showed me more than I could ever be told.
well it stopped working because full power rifle cartridges were widely used
now that intermediete cartridges are used there are plenty of soldiers on the frontline in ukraine rn using steel plate even if they would prefer ceramic
I remember everyone giving Battlefield 1 crap for having this in the game for being "unrealistic"
It's not that the historical accuracy that the armour was used but its effectiveness.
But the dude who wore it was from Italy and it was way more armor than these two pieces. AND he also took rifle shots point blank. (In the campaign for how short it was)
And then Bf V arrived and everyone started thinking that Bf 1 was accurate weirdly enough xD
@@antondemeyer777 no no, nobody thought that...
Anyone who plays any of the Battlefield series and expects realism is going to be sorely disappointed.
My great grandad wore chainmail for trench clearing in WW1 he was in the Durham light infantry and survived the whole war from the very start fighting till 1918 when he was hit with shrapnell and sent home .
What kind of chainmail was it?
That brow armor might stop a rifle bullet, but the impact will most likely break wearer's neck regardless
This is complete bullshit and an urban legend.
that's a lie
first off all, since the brow armor is so heavy in the front, it probably is able to catch and reduce the whiplash (inertia)
Excellent vid Ian, thanks. BTW you have a whistling snot @ 5:00
imagine catching a .303 on that skull cap..........
Make the ears ring fo sho
That would fuckin suck but you would be alive
@@michaelkeha Probably, probably
@Simo Only if the recoil of the weapon would have broken your neck as well.
@@MartinTraXAA Considering it's very frontheavy, that will probably stop some of the whiplash.
Wow mate u come out with the best well done. Like to see more of the great war and the trench life.
I’m gonna be honest I laughed when I saw His face in the helmet
What do you know? A smart gun curator... Love the videos. Keep up the good work.
'artillery killed more people in ww1 than rifles by 'a long shot'''.no pun intended..
We’re so accustomed to the image of a classic jousting helmet that I assumed the helmet plate rotated downwards to protect the face. Very interesting that it really just is a solid thickness adder to the forehead and not some articulating piece, but it makes sense.
I think that’s called a gorget. The thing for the throat.
A gorget is a seperate piece of armor worn around the throat, not something built into the breastplate. It fills much the same role and there were some earlier breastplates with comperable features, but they're not the same thing.
The company was called Krupp and its headquarters were in the German city of Essen.
is that a wall of lugers? awesome i want one
Ian I have to say it brother, I love your video;s, I live in the UK and we don't get to own the stuff you guys do, It's great to see all the historic weapons. Regards Cliff
Do they have a german snipers mask from ww1 there at RIA.
Best intro ever. A+++ would watch again.
also protects from the stibety stabs.
that manufacturer mark is the symbol of the Krupp Company located in Essen a City near Düsseldorf in Northrhine-Wesfalia. The Symbol is still part of the logo of Thyssen-Krupp after the fusion of the 2 companies
Very similar to the Ned Kelly armor.
Hello and thank you for nice videos.
For me the best gun videos on youtube.
You have a nice voice and it's easy listening to you.
Greatings from Sweden.
/Per
MyMRT1 Thanks!
So Ian is the Tin Man and Karl is the Cowardly Lion (no offense Karl), but who is the Scarecrow?
The viewer
hickock
That opening was great!
If you only armor the front of your troops, I guess that will act as a deterrent form them turning to run.
That's one of the best thumbnails youtube has ever seen.
How many po8's does one need? (Look inside the shelves in the background)
There is a set of these at the National WW-1 museum here in Kansas City, Missouri. The helmet has a bullet hole in it!
Don't make too much of a joke out of this. Using armor at all in a modern war was a completely new concept and nobody knew were it would end. All nations at war tried out concepts until, over time, the more practicable usages would evolve.
The three interlocking rings are the company logo of Krupp, the arms company that also built alot of german artillery and invented the train wheels used on the first pacific railway.
how much does it weight?
noone There was some variation between different models, but they were between 19 and 24 pounds. The reproduction set I have is right at 20.
Forgotten Weapons compared to modern armor...Not too horrible...I think our IBA body armor in the Army weighed 40lbs plus helmet, rifle and our pack...Something like that would be interesting in AR500 lol...
GrOuNdZeRo7777 if that were made in ar500 or even better 650 i could see it still being very useful for gunners on vehicles or something like that.
not only are you buying very good antiques, your buying ians finger prints
A Kriegsman on Holy Terra? Oof. My sympathies. You must be miserable!
It is better to be miserable for the emperor than miserable for yourself!
Ned Kelly thought of body Armour against rifle fire before the Germans or the British. His Armour covered his front, back, and head. The Armour only failed because his legs were exposed and he tried to fight the police in the open. He walked through their rifle fire as if it did not exist. He was taken down because they kept shooting his legs until he collapsed.
Thoughts:
Helmet reminds me of Hitler's hat, it had similar thick steel plates hidden under his oversized hat. This helmet guard might of inspired it.
Am a little surprised the chest plate wasn't as rounded out to deflect bullets. But still well thought out with that net guard.
This suddenly threw me back to the armor used Ned Kelly used. It had proved to be surprisingly effective against large caliber weapons before he was captured.
As I suspect from all the markings on German elevators, these interlocking circles are the Krupp manufacturers mark. Today it is named Thyssen-Krupp and has a bow above three interlocking circles. As the bow is the Thyssen manufacturers mark, the circles are Krupp.
Wouldn't shrapnel from shells have an equal chance of coming from any direction so armouring only the front would be pointless?
+Clueless Nitwiticus Bullets tend to all come from the same direction though.
+Clueless Nitwiticus
it would be useless. but the Germans where innovators every one copy's them or learns from there mistakes.
I know they use steel plate in armor now about the same thickness like AR500. but i don't know how they make them, i don't think there straight steel like they say.
+Rhys4190111 it's powder pressure welded steel, the only way to incorporate heavy and lighter elements together as a compound. very hard shit.........
well they would have a large Mound of dirt behind them from the digging of the trench
+Clueless Nitwiticus It would be pointless... Unless the shrapnel was coming at you from the front.. That is 50-50 chance of shrapnel injury.. I'll take that over 100% chance of shrapnel
Can't imagine trying to go through WWI battles in that. It must've been HELL! Then again the alternative wasn't any better like all of WWI.
WWI snipers started loading bullets backwards in their cases to punch through metal plates.
I'm pretty certain the poor sap wearing this stuff would not want to get hit by one of those.
manictiger source?
Nack Jicholson
I spent 5 seconds typing:
"ww1 sniper backwards bullet"
into Google. You should try that.
And yes, it is dangerous and did sometimes backfire; but it was a thing both sides did in WW1.
They eventually made specialized overpressure rounds with steel-cores which were slightly safer and more effective.
+VERY NIIICE they actually did that, especially against tanks early on as they didnt had any other means to fight them, the thing about it was that it was very dangerous and could if you were unlucky kill you instead
A glance of the thumbnail made me think you were in some sort of musketeer get-up.
lol the earliest star wars stormtrooper armor
Dániel Deák funny enough the term stormtrooper was coined during WWI because of the shock troopers of the German Army.
A long time ago, I watched this video with my friend. Shortly afterward _during that same day_ we went to this popular restaurant and bar in San Francisco called _Tommy's Joynt_ that's a local staple there known for hearty meaty meals and good deals. It's also known for it's kitschy interior decorating with walls are by antiques, junk, and knick knacks.
I noticed her staring intently at something, and she pointed out that it, there was a Grabenpanzer adorning a dimly lit area over the stairs.
That stuff (minus the extra plate on the helmet) would have been the cat's ass... about 600 years ago... as long as nobody on the other side had arquebuses.
Nah. Armour from the past is far better to wear.....isnt heavy and doesnt restrict your movement(there were cutouts to shoulder the weapons.) and rested on the waist which makes them really light on the wearer(and they werent as thick as this on). This german one is much heavier and thocker and hangs from shoulders.....which is a terrible design
This type of armor is really good if you want to get spinal compression
That'll stop those pesky lancers. And if that arrogant Prussian captain challenges me to a saber dual #!@%#!!
It's useful for hand to hand combat for obvious reasons.
It's also gotta have a psychological affect on anyone you came up against to fight hand to hand as well.
Prussian toughs who were the original stormtroopers liked to wear them when they could and get into close contact with grenades, bayonets, trench axes and shives.
i'd go into a trench with that armor and two lugers or a trench gun screaming FOR GERMANY AND FOR THE KAISER!
+adam foye and then fireing them both off simultanously as the you get hit but nothing can pen you but eventually someone manages it and you fall to the ground as you pull the triger of both lugers for the last time, it suddenly goes slowmo you can see the catridges slowly dropping down into the dust reflecting the sun of the light as you drop on the floor, the foe that just hit you landing next to you. the camera zooms out and goes black.
do you mean like that?
+Freya Valentine That imagery needs John Woo's white doves taking flight, as he dives into the trench with dual Lugers, shooting six Frenchmen before landing in mud.
Ian is in the league of extraordinary gentlemen...
Genial Germans! !
I read somewhere that helmet plate would actually stop rifle bullets, but because of weight of the helmet itself, and transferred energy from the bullet it would snap soldiers neck
***** Just from a physics perspective, I'm pretty confident that is hooey. Also, I've seen video of guys in Afghanistan take a hit to the helmet and not die of a broken neck. Concussion would be the actual potential result.
indeed, the bullet might be stopped by the helmet and save the person wearing it from a head shot, but, it was useless. It was so as knock back from a bullet hitting the armor plating on the helmet was so intensive that in most cases it broke the neck of the soldier wearing it. if i remember correctly, in some armies they even called them "death cap" or something like that
Sirees333 That sounds dubious, at best.
kokofan50 it may sound like but that's the truth. consider the weigh of the armor addon and the amount of kinetic force on the bullet impact. humans neck doesn't have enough strength in most cases to sustain that amount of power
Emanicas well... problems do not really paint the full picture =DD if your lucky - you get knocked out by the kinetic blast, if not a broken neck
Sirees333 the weight of the helmet would counteract the strike of the bullet, not enhance it. That's physics.
Sirees333 Bullets don't have that much kinetic energy. People can punch and kick with more force than bullets. What makes bullets so dangerous is that the energy is concentrated into a small area.
Too cool,Ian,I always wanted to get ahold of some trench armor,or some chain mail that was actually used in WW1.