Linkara and Viga went to see Avengers: Endgame, just like nearly every other person on the planet! You can check out Viga's content here: / @vigatheotagal #theavengers #marvel #vlogs
I was a bit taken aback when it was revealed that the after the snap, the Avengers stopped being heroes and instead now reviewed lamps online in an Internet review show.
Actually, having heard that Doug never paid any attention to what people reviewed, that joke is rather less funny now. Still like it though, its just done so well.
Thatguywiththestuffies TH-cam page. The main joke is that Linkara reviews lamps as a reference from to boldly flee where Linkara asks paw what he reviews and paw replies “lamps?”. It’s been a running gag since
@@lexinelson1805 Actually, that's NOT the source of the joke, just another reference to it. The original source is a 2012 video by Sad Panda entitled "Forget About It: Top 10 TGWTG Reviewers". This was a show in which Sad Panda intentionally mis-remembers things for hilarious effect, such as Harry Potter. This particular episode featured him intentionally screwing up the shows and characters of then top TGWTG reviewers including Linkara whom he mis-characterized as a lamp reviewer. Unfortunately, that video was lost in the Blip-pocalypse and has yet to be reposted.
Ehhhh not exactly. The joke DOES originate from To Boldly Flee. Sad Panda wrote his video after the script for To Boldly Flee came out and made a reference to it. However, because To Boldly Flee kept getting delayed, his video premiered first and thus it looked like the movie was referencing his video, instead.
Widow's fate felt like a natural conclusion to her arc to me. Whether or not you like it is personal preference. That said I don't believe it fits the Fridge trope at all. She was more than just a plot device to motivate her male counterparts. She had her own character journey in the mcu and this was, to me at least, a fitting end.
exactly, his argument also misses how EVERYBODY expected Hawkeye to die instead, because of how he lost everything, and was always considered the weakest link of the team.
I agree. A heroic sacrifice that fits a character’s arc isn’t fridging, imo. In another note, I do love how, like in Avengers: AoE, the writers again did everything to signal Hawkeye was going to die only to ultimately have him live. I honestly hope this becomes an ongoing gag of sorts.
Widow's fate doesn't conclude her arc at all. Arcs are about change - they're about bringing the hero to a point where he makes a choice that he wouldn't make at the beginning of the story. Nat's final choice, on the other hand, is just the same choice that she's been willing to make since long ago, since at least Age of Ultron. She didn't change at all in this movie. She had no arc.
I agree. The first Avengers movie gave us a lot of insight into Natasha's character, specifically her relationship to Clint and her reason to join Shield. She wasn't lying to Loki when she spoke about all the "red ink in her ledger"; she wasn't always on the right side and took lives, but she was given mercy and chance to make up for it by Clint. When they faced off, she could have killed so easily, but she fought as hard not to kill him as she did to save herself and others. In Ultron, she is shown as part of Clint's family as an affectionate aunt figure. Which is why she would never let Clint die. If there was a chance they could do get the stones back, Clint's family would return to a world without him if he made the sacrifice. In her mind, he had already saved her life and one that actually gave her one with friends/family and understanding. They all vowed to do whatever it took and that's what she did. She cleared that ledger and she gave Clint his cherished life with his family. A former killer who was robbed of her ability to make life herself was part of the reason that all that life in the universe came back. Very fitting and heroic.
I’m confused, I thought the problem with Women in Refrigerators was that it robbed the female characters of their agency and turned them into props. That’s not what happened with Natasha’s death. She chose to sacrifice herself both to save Clint and the universe. And yes, there is man-angst after she dies, but that’s because most of her closest friends were men. It would’ve been worse if they hadn’t been upset about her death because she was a valued member of their found family. If Wanda had still been alive I’m sure she would have been grieving too. And that actually does come up in the end when she talks with Clint about how both lost people they loved. So while this was adjacent to Women in Refrigerators, I don’t think it wasn’t a true example because the spirit of it wasn’t there. Natasha is a fully realized character who willingly gives her life, Kyle Rayner’s girlfriend was a prop.
Another thing that is a bit of a knock against it being a fridge moment is that her death does NOT motivate the characters in any way or form. It also fits the arc Natasha had been going through, to clean the red from her ledger
On your debate I think the Ancient One’s point was less about the timeline changing and more about the stones not being there to protect against specific threats in the future. For example without the time stone there’s no “Dormammu, I’ve come to bargain”. So the timeline has already changed but if they don’t bring back the stones they’re creating a new threat for that timeline.
I get you. Banner basically told The Ancient One that as long as they closed the loop by putting the stones back they don't have to worry about screwing over HER timeline.
@@ayandanxumalo9699 Just looked at IMDB quotes, found that conversation... and they've marked all Bruce's lines as the Ancient One's and vice versa. I can never unimagine that they did that, then realised they had the scripts reversed and had to do over.
I mean no disrespect to you or anyone who felt bothered by Black Widow's death. That's completely fair emotional feeling to have and I have no place to tell anyone that their emotions are "wrong." However, I feel that we are tossing fridge - criticism around too lightly. It's starting to feel like that no matter how layered they are, how much agency they had or how tasteful/thoughtful the death was, female characters dying seems to be always automatically be fridgin. BW wasn't there just to die, she was 3 dimensional fleshed out character, her killing herself came from herself and was natural part of her character, her death wasn't meaningless and she went out in heroic way. And most importantly, the point of her death wasn't to motivate the male characters, even if they are pained by it (and they would be pretty awful, if they weren't).
Your points are well made. I also feel that, in that situation, Black Widow's sacrifice makes sense. Hawkeye has a family that will be restored, BW was alone. Combined with her life as a soldier and spy, she's the kind of person who is mentally prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. Combine that with having to watch her closest friends devolve into misery and despair from grief for 5 years, and she may even developed depression or survivor's guilt and have welcomed the chance to sacrifice herself to fix things. But the problem is, we tend to treat plotlines as unquestionable. "The stone needs a sacrifice, BW is there, and BW is the kind of person to make that sacrifice." But we have to recognize that none of these plotlines are sacrosanct. The characters could have gone back in time far enough to get the stone before it needed the sacrifice. Another pair could have gone. The writers of the movie chose to define parameters that would lead to BW sacrificing herself, and we have to recognize and respect that fact. They chose to kill off one of the primary female avengers, and take a lot of wind out of the sails of the upcoming BW movie. It's not surprising people are a bit sore about the decision, given the expansive list of characters that could have gone to get the soul stone.
@@callianr6980 You're thinking as if the characters were real, instead of a script on a page typed out one letter at a time. "They" don't exist, and the writers have full control of what "they" would know. There's any number of ways the writers could have written a way for the characters to learn where the stone was before Vormir. There were any number of ways for them to write a loophole for the sacrifice, and any number of other people who could be sacrificed. They chose to write the story in such a way that Black Widow specifically was at Vormir and a sacrifice was needed. We have to recognize that both writers, the russo brothers, and a whole bunch of suits from Disney and Marvel signed off on a script that killed off Black Widow. And, for the record, I don't think it was a BAD decision, being on par with Supergirl's death in Crisis on Infinite Earths. But I can absolutely see why people view it as the complete avoidable and wasteful death that it is.
@@Metrion77 you make a valid point. My problem with Black Widow's sacrifice is that it would have made more sense if Bruce was there instead of Clint. They established a Bruce/Natasha romance in Ultron and her being the thing that Bruce had to sacrifice would have made more sense since they were a couple and not just best friends. I also felt like the Natasha/Clint scenes in this movie would have been more impactful if they had been a couple like many thought they were after seeing the first Avengers movie. As it stands, the Natasha/Bruce romance seems to be a plot thread left unresolved
I feel like of all the characters, natasha's sacrifice made the most sense regarding her arc. I understand that people are upset that we lost the only female in the original lineup, but if the A-Force scene in the final battles showed us anything, we have so many more now. With different personalities, powers, skills, backgrounds....and all incredibly badass. We lost nat but going forward we are more than set
That was NOT fridging. It was an heroic sacrifice, and the pain wasn't "man pain", it was pain for a friend. She wasn't the "female Avenger". She was an Avenger who happened to be female. If anyone was fridged, it was Vision.
Probably it could be about that Loki learning of his future self's journey and death. AND if we et Luck enough, that alternate loki could gain the memories of his original now death ones. AND Maybe Gamora too
I'm pretty sure once Captain America returns the Space Stone to its original time, the timeline is snapped back into place as per the discussion between Banner and the Ancient One. The Avengers will have never gone back in time and Loki will have never escaped. At least, I believe that's how it's supposed to work by the way it was explained.
the issue the ancient one brought up was the LACK of the stones in THEIR universe, as for the shenanigans that happened due to them taking them, those are permanent changes. all that cap was able to do was, return the stones.
Tbh, yeah. Widow seemed stressed out and depressed in the first act in running things after the Snap. She was probably desperate to revive everyone no matter what, and that included giving up her life. People can call it whatever they want, but to me, Widow's death is her ultimate testament of being a hero.
@@youngsmitty347 The beauty of it is that it works for both Widow and Hawkeye. Hawkeye obviously wanted to do it in order to bring his family back at this expense of his own life.
You do have a point about Thor's character "reversion" but it is kind of addressed in the film. Being the King of Asgard is what Thor is meant to be, but he wants to try to find out who he is.
It's a small thing but I liked when Spider-man activated Instant Kill mode because it linked back to Homecoming when he was messing with the new suit and nearly turned it on by accident. It'd be funny if he accidentally turned on interrogation mode during the big battle though.
The thing about Thor's arc is that Ragnarok wasn't the end of it. The point of the arc through Ragnarok and Infinity War was to keep taking things away from him until he broke. Until he recognised that he _could_ fail. Because for every humbling event before that he'd gotten it back. But he lost his dad, his hammer, his home, his brother, his people... and it was on him. And now in Endgame he gets to the low point where he gives up on everything he was given, everything he was told he was... and with his mother's blessing starts becoming who he _chooses_ to be.
Also, the Thor stuff isn't a waste of time. Thor had a traumatic experience and part of his arc over the Guardian's film and Taika's new movie will take that character through those experiences.
Spoilers: I disagree on the black widow death being a fridge moment. It made sense for the character and for her to do that so hawkeye could be with his family.
I agree with a lot of the comments that it wasn't fridging. One the one hand it was her choice and a heroic sacrifice. On the other hand it was the most emotional way to do this, because of the relationship between Clint and Nat, and was a satisfying closure to her character arc of wiping out the red in her ledger.
About Black Widow’s death, the scene was originally written for Hawkeye to die, but it was a woman on the crew on the film’s development who told the writers and directors not to take this heroic moment away from Black Widow. The fridge term is being misapplied too often these days, and preventing people from seeing the scene’s true intentions.
When I think of Fridging, I think of characters who go down without putting up a fight (Or putting up a very weak and pointless fight), where their agency is stripped away and it doesn't matter what they think or what choices they make, they're going to die as a poor little victim who couldn't do anything while the hero spends a lot of time remembering her that way, as a poor little victim. Vanessa in deadpool 2 getting shot in the chest with no way to protect herself was fridging. Gwen Stacey hanging helplessly until the line was cut and all she could do was look up shock and terrified as she fell was fridging. That's not what happened to BW. She died proud, sure and ready as a result of an choice she made. She fought hard against her friend for the right to make that choice, knowing full well why she was doing it. That's not bing a victim, that's being self sacrificing, and person who risks or self sacrifices for the sake of others? That's dictionary definition of a hero. Although admittedly it is kind of shitty that we see Tony Stark's big funeral but nothing for her. I mean I guess it would have messed up the pacing to have two funeral scenes but still, something that says when the battle is over and done with that she was honored.
Very few people likely even knew who Black Widow was, and fewer would really have been the 'invite to the funeral' type. As they said, the only 'family' she ever had was the avengers, so they likely just had a private memorial service for her. Where-as Tony's death was big news and his funeral was the sort of thing EVERYONE who possibly could would show up for, giving us that massive scene.
@7Seraphem7 Most of people we saw in Iron Man’s funeral were Avengers (and some family and Pepper’s family probably but that wasn’t the focus of the shot). BW could have had the same. But I imagine she did off screen, there didn’t need to be two funerals on screen.
@@WinterFox1000 i know (i was the only comic geek in my theater ) i was saying professor hulk? ...holy crap my least fave hulk (fave is joe fixit or what i call him mobster hulk) but still cool to see him
Ok im saying this as a huge black widow fan.....that was not a fridging. Natasha is not Rayners girlfriend killed in the first issue for shock value. She made the choice to self sacrifice, has a lot of character growth throughout the mcu, and seriously...man pain? Clints pain is because he lost his best friend. This was about showing how true their friendship was, the fact one is a man and other is a woman is irrelevant. This was earned. Also, apparently the original plan was for Hawkeye to die, but one of the production assistants went to the writers and said "dont take this moment from her." Like seriously, Linkara, i agree we with 99% of what you say regarding this kind of topic.....but you are way off base here.
Agreed, female characters can never died if everything is fridging. They in review say it caused pain for the others but actually people have been more upset that there wasn’t a bigger deal made of her death since Iron Man had a funeral. I think if you are comic book reader you might get too hyper aware of possible fridging.
First off, how did you guys miss mentioning... "Hey Cap. On your left." Second, I agree with viga here with gamora. Past gamora is the one that's around. And the space time continuem is likely not circling the drain, because ONLY the stones being removed from time impacts the time steams. So the stones likely have a power to self correct events once they go back in time. Making it as though the time heist never happened. As for past gamora, I think she will somehow gain the memories of the present gamora in the next guardiens movie. Which is in the future...
past gamora is the equivalent of preset trunks staying in future trunks timeline and not coming back to present (apply to the MCU dragon ball logic of time travel). i agree n her somehow gaining the memoris of the original gamora. because maybe, when the soul gem was destroyed "the souls got released" somehow
BlackMagicRose3 also star lord arriving on earth is the first time he'd been on earth since he was 8. I like to think that after Tony's funeral but before leaving Norway that he went to Missouri, tracked down his mom's remaining family (assuming his grandfather is still alive) in order to properly say goodbye/visit his mom's grave.
30:39 They explained earlier in the movie that time travel in this universe is like Dragon Ball Z. Going back doesn't change history, it creates an alternate timeline universe. This is how present Nebula was able to kill past Nebula without any consequences. And how killing past Thanos and all his minions didn't completely screw up time. Or how Loki was able to run off with the Tesseract without changing history. The only thing that messes this theory up is old man Cap staying in the past and growing old to the present (unless he jumped back to the present at some point off camera).
Per the directors, that's exactly what he did. Jumped back to the 'main' timeline after Peggy died in his. And the talk with Bruce was rather confusing. No matter what, that timeline would split off into it's own, even if they were right about putting the stone's back, since they already changed major events by letting Loki get free with the Tesseract. The bigger issue was that without the Time Stone, that whole timeline would be utterly fucked later on when Strange would need it to stop Dormamu.
I find it incredibly ironic that you guys are bashing on Black Widow's death for the Soul Stone as "man pain" (whatever the hell that is?), when *neither* of you can even remember her actual name. It's Natasha, not Natalie.
"The snap may have taken all of my friends, but at least the lines at Disney World and Six Flags are short! :D " *the last snap brings everyone back* "DAMMIT!" Also, about the soul stone scene, I remember thinking "I wouldn't necessarily call it 'fridging' or at least one of the more egregious examples, but wouldn't it have been *so* much more effective if it was Hawkeye?"
For how little she was in the movie, I feel like Captain Marvel did a lot of good when she was in it. Helped kill Present Thanos, acts as a tank as she's Kirbying into Thanos' ship just in the nick of time to prevent Spider-Man from developing PTSD. Which I think is one of the most heroic things that anyone manages to pull off in this movie.
I can't agree with this idea that Nat's sacrifice was a bad thing just because she was a woman. Personally I think they should have both gone over the side and had their selflessness rewarded by being given the Soul Stone without need for a sacrifice. That said I don't see this as fridge material. I don't think Nat died to "move a male character's story forward". Yes, she sacrificed herself to keep Clint alive, but that was a choice made of her own volition for the sake of his family. In other words: It was an in-story choice not a narrative imposition. As for returning the stones vs returning Gamora etc. Returning the stones to the exact point at which they were taken would trim the timeline in which Thanos takes his fleet to the future. Past Gamora is a cosmic leftover from the timeline where Thanos comes to the future. At least that's my read.
Loki's disappearance is most likely set up for a Loki TV series for disney's streaming platform. EDIT: Also, I think the reason nobody died when Thanos bombed the compound was because Tony activated the bomb doors to keep them safe when Hulk used the gauntlet.
The gigantic battle when Cap says "AVENGERS, ASSEMBLE" was like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate ("Yes, everyone is here! except for Vision and Black Widow and Loki and Heimdall and the Warriors Three and Lady Sif and also 2018!Gamora is still dead so 2014!Gamora fighting against Thanos' army doesn't count but she'll probably come back for (As)Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3))
Great vlog! I saw the film earlier this morning and absolutely loved it! It was everything I wanted it to be. The action, comedy and drama was all great. The whole final battle from when Cap, Thor and Iron Man confront Thanos to the end of it was my absolute favourite part of the film! There were loads of cheering moments for me. The four parts that I loved the most were Cap holding the hammer, everyone coming out and getting ready to fight and the "Avengers Assemble" line, Scarlet Witch attacking Thanos, Captain Marvel's entrance and the women of the MCU shot. Those moments were AMAZING!!! On a different note, while I get your complaint about Thor going backwards character wise, I'd argue that him not being king anymore made sense for his character. The way I see it is that while he had accepted being king of Asgard, it wasn't what he really wanted. After all, he DID decline being king in The Dark World. I see him not being king anymore as a bit of a relief for him. Him being king was what he HAD and accepted to do, but not what he WANTED to do. Hope I made sense here. Keep up the great videos :)
“I don't want to make merely intellectual films. I want audiences to feel, to sense my films. This to me is much more important than their understanding them.” - Ingmar Bergman
Have to admit, didn't think of Natalie dying as fridging, she played a major role, someone had to go and there are other female heroes. Honestly that group female shot kind of felt forced, its not like Carol needed the help, she just blasts through everything, but yeah, plenty of strong females for Phase 4.
This was the most epic comic book movie I've ever seen. Even the time travel makes comic book sense. But that final fight, oh god that was the most glorious thing I've ever seen in history
Plus, the time travel rules are consistent with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 5 where the concern over how time travel works is a big part of the conflict and the characters worrying about what they should be doing to prevent what happens in that season, so that was cool to me as a fan of the movie and show sides of the MCU.
@@Logan912 Maybe you can explain it to me. I was all on board with the whole diverging timelines thing, but I don't get why Cap shows up at the end? Seems like it conflicts with the rest of the movie. Like, shouldn't he be off in a different timeline?
@@Judicator11 as far as I can tell, it's kinda like doctor who rules of time travel. There are specific fixed points in time, and everything else is fair game when done right. The stones are fixed points, while cap going back to Peggy changed the timeline slightly but didn't implode the space-time continuum
@@BionicleGio22210 mmm, I guess I see what you mean. Makes the movie somehow worse to me though, it sounds a bit too half-assed and convenient - a silly complaint for a comic book movie I suppose, but I liked it better as a scientifically plausable multiverse kinda thing.
Just like with the first Avengers in 2012, Avengers: Endgame has instantly become one of my favorite films of 2019. The ending climatic battle is one of my nerd fantasies come true.
the thing about the "abusive love" is that, the stone DOESNT CARE, what it DOES CARE, is if THE PERSON DOING THE SACRIFICING belives the feeling to be real. and in Thanos case, he does see her as his most precious thing. so was he a monster? yes, but he also trully belived that he loved her above everything else. on Black widows case, however, it was a play on what we expected to see, she was an integral part of the team, and he was always considered the "weakest link" of the team, so it made sense to sacrifice him, but the movie pulled a switcheroo on the last minute.
Yeah, here's the thing: what you are using is called the Thermian Argument. The idea is that it's okay as long as it's consistent with the rules established within the universe. Problem is: this is fiction. It is a fictional world. It is a world a writer made up. And a writer decided "Yeah, your abusive, controlling emotions are a valid expression of love in the eyes of a universal cosmic force."
again, you are missing the point of the thing, the movie didnt defend thanos, on the contrary! it shows just how twisted he is. he was called the "mad titan", and we can see that indeed, the guy is insane. he trully belives what he did was love. so while i get what you are saying, i disagree because you are coming from a place of "but that isnt love", and me, and the movie agrees with you, that's just how disturbing thanos mental gymnastics is...
look, your argument is, "the universe agrees with him", thing is, the universe doesnt care, the task was, "sacrifice something YOU love", not "sacrifice something I SEE AS LOVE".
@@marcosdheleno Which, this movie shows that is NOT even a literal phrase for what needs to happen, since Clint didn't 'sacrifice' Natasha but still got the stone. It's also taking in some huge assumption about this being 'the universe' judging things, when it could all be some mystical equivalent of a basic series of logic gates. "If: Death occurs at bottom of cliff; And-Living sentient being detected at top of cliff; and-grief detected in said being; then-Give Soul Stone to being on cliff." The only thing that matters is that Thanos felt grief, that in his mind, this was a 'sacrifice', not how valid said feelings were to anyone else.
7Seraphem7 exactly! thats why i said "the universe doesnt care", its a trial challenge, it asks for something "loved" to be given, and by "loved" it means something YOU love, not "something that loves you", not "something that has felt true love", and certainly not "something most people see as love". it asks for 1 thing, "sacrifice something YOU LOVE". and like you said, it could be something the person who placed the stone set as basically "show me loss".
I don't know if you end up covering this because I paused it after you commented on your disagreement regarding Gamora and the timeline issue. The way I read it was that each time jump that made a paradoxical change caused a alternate timeline, and the stones needed to be returned, not to stop a paradox of 'the past movies can't happen if the stones disappear', but 'if the stones don't go back we're dooming the alternate realities that needed the stones to stop the threats of their timeline'. e.g. If the time and mind stone wasn't returned to the New York timeline then Domamu would have succeeded in his plans. This would also mean there are two majorly divergent timelines (since the Asgard timeline didn't really have any major damage outside of the aether and Mjolnir being temporarily stolen) of Loki escaping with the teseract in the New York timeline and Thanos and his children disappearing from the Space timeline.
Missing the forest for the trees on Vormir I think. The subtext is clearly that Thanos uses love as a blunt instrument to get what he wants where as Black Widow is showing the honest to god self sacrificing love. It doesn't matter that both "gain the approval of the universe" another phrase that tired of hearing yeah the universe allows bad things to happen, thanks eagle eye, it matters that one gains the approval of the narrative. You know the act that ends up winning.
It's not even some 'the universe' doing anything, it's just how the Stone was set up. It could be just some unfeeling computer at work that is doing nothing more then following a series of logic gates. "If: Death occurs at bottom of cliff; And-Living sentient being detected at top of cliff; and-grief detected in said being; then-Give Soul Stone to being on cliff." No judgement needed beyond we there basic, objective facts.
I like to think that Thor going off with the Guardians is his way of getting his groove back after the trauma and whatnot of the past 5 years. Would've been better if he told Valkyrie that he'd be back, but after everything he's been thru, I think he merits a bit of r&r.
I personally don't think 2012 Loki getting the Space Stone will affect anything, it was a wrench in the original plan to get it but that's as far as it goes. Howard the Duck was in the fight too. No my friend, 2014 Thanos and his army were just killed, 2014 Gamora is wandering around somewhere in 2019, and the stones (and Thor's Hammer) were returned to their respective points in time cause they still needed to do that. I'm not happy with the idea of replacing Gamora with a version of herself from a previous point in time, replacement Goldfish much?, but I'm pretty sure it's implied she is still in the present. Also, Tony gets a funeral....but not Natasha?!??! WTF?!
Spoiler spoiler: I think that the alternate realities did occur because of the past Loki who escaped with the Space Stone survived and we don't see what's happening to him or how it resolved in the film. I don't know, maybe I'm completely wrong. But, Disney did planned on making a Loki series, so....?
About the "live action" Lion King trailer: I'm with you on that Viga. The original Lion King is one of my favorite movies of all time that I grew up watching over and over, and I could probably literally recite the entire movie line for line. I don't want a tacky low-effort "remake" version, when the original, though imperfect, was fantastic and has no need for that. Another thing I didn't like was how, in the trailer I saw, they did a lot of the same stuff, literally SHOT-FOR-SHOT EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE ORIGINAL! What is the freaking point, you are literally doing the same thing but not as well, and it made me want to cry.
SPOILER BELOW, TAGGING JUST IN CASE My issue with nat's fridging wasn't the fridging itself. It's how much it got overshadowed. Tony gets a whole chunk of funeral/mourning stuff etc. Nat gets... a couple throwaway lines afterwards between two characters.
Linkara man I love your content but sometimes dude I feel like talking out your butt what happened to Thor is calling negative character arc he has a man in the mourning he has fallen he's lost his home his father his mother his brother 3/4 of his peoplefirced to kill his sister and is obviously suffering from severe alcoholism and depression again bro I love your content but I feel like you need a a world view outside of the bubble you live in I think that his storeyArc in all the movies is a perfect next step in who he is and who he has become and who he is going to further become in future movies
I think the logic of time travel is branching futures, and cap came back old from an alternate timeline. And the reason the stones have to go back is per timeline. Still, it seems to be multiversal logic in play.
maybe is more like "some are stable time loops, and sme aren't". while the time travel they did to get the infinity gems was to mch it branches out timelines, forming alternate universes, some other time travels were for some reason "not enough to branch", like say, clint's "test run" and steve's "staying"
It's starting to feel like a subset of the internet is going to knee-jerk yell "FRIDGING" every time a woman dies in a comic book movie and a man reacts to it. Vanessa in Deadpool 2 was fridged; to the point the PG13 edit called it out. Gamora and Black Widow were not. Also for fuck's sake: if you're going to complain it's disrespectful or whatever how Black Widow died, you could get her name right at least once in a 45-minute video.
This film made me realize just what a herculean task making a movie with ALL these different characters from these different settings (The wackiness of Ragnarok, the seriousness of CA: Winter Soldier, the darkness of Infinity War, the irreverence of GotG) work together and still feel natural. I tip my hat to the writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, they are truly great writers and this was a wonderful send-off to the current era of the MCU. I view Natasha's death less as "Killing a woman just to get an emotional reaction" and more as a character who has committed horrific crimes in the past, both knowingly under the KGB and unknowingly under Hydra-Shield, finally seeing a way to get the red off her ledger for good, while saving her best friend's life and saving his children from having to live without their father. In the word's of Bolvar Fordragon "You still have your own stories to tell. This last act of service... is mine alone."
What happened to Black Widow wasn't fridiging. She killed herself for the plot and to save the universe. Calling it a frigidning is like calling Thanos's abusive love to Gamora as actual love.
Old Gamora is dead, as everyone is gone that was not snapped. So past Gamora is still alive but in the future. The thor to me seems quite a bit more natural then you guys think it is. More than a google of people died because of him. Having ptsd and survivor guilt can shatter a lot of people.
Hell, he was pretty on the edge of barely holding his shit together after Thanos' attack in the start of IW. It was just focusing on getting vengeance that kept him functional, and then he failed at even that. Yeah, I can fully see him just saying 'fuck it' after that.
Sadly, we'll probably never see Cap return the Soul Stone to Vormir and find out that Red Skull is still alive. I imagine his reaction would be similar to his earlier line of "You gotta be shitting me."
Loki and Scarlet Witch are getting their own show and The show for Loki is about him messing around with human history after he escaped with the Tesseract. I really hope Linkara sees this
Spoilers, With past Gamora maybe she will start remembering stuff from her future self. Also Capt will run into the Red Skull again, since he replaced the Infinity Stones (and Mjolnir) to their original places in time, to try to limit the damage to the time line. (I do wonder what happened when someone 'returns' the Soul Stone, would that mean Natasha could come back) One other thing the fact that Clint and Natasha was sent to get the Soul Stone raises a ton of questions about Nebula and Tony's motives if they knew what the cost of the Soul Stone would be.
Something that threw me off was Ned seeing Peter and hugging him while starting to cry. No problem with that short scene itself, but it implies that Ned had survived the finger snap and had been around for 5 years, yet he looks the same age he was in Homecoming. Shouldn't he look older like Cassie Lang did and not even be in high school anymore? Or was he a student teacher at this point? Other than that, Nebula killed her past self and Thanos forces from 2014 were wiped out, so shouldn't a paradox have been created? I'm curious how Gunn is going to tackle this and the new Gamora Quill relationship in Vol 3.
Ned didn't survive the snap, none of Peter's friends survived, hence why they're not out of high school in Far From Home. I feel like that scene was meant to illustrate Peter seeing a bunch of new kids and realizing how long it's been, only to see his best friend still there for him
@@typhontwister still think Ned's reaction implied that he survived while thinking Pete was dead. Now if aunt May had been around for 5 years it would have been a good reason to age her up a bit
25:00 for some reason, one of my favorite moments in the movie was Peter Parker/Spider-Man protecting the Infinity gauntlet with everything he got, and even during the missiles falling he grabbed to that like if his live depended on it, and meekly says hello to carol when she comes. like, peter reminded me of miles morales from into the spider-verse at that moment
I got the reference, and recognize that it's even funnier when you realize that Howard is actually in the movie (you can see him next to a group of Ravagers right when Wasp appears for the final battle.)
Ok favorite parts/theories of the movie and SPOILERS below: -Best Callback: Peter finally gets that hug from Iron Man. -Favorite Part: All the portals open up and the army of allies pours through to the Avengers theme. -Theory: Cap returned the Soul Stone so does that mean Natasha is returned to us because the soul is returned. -Theory: Scarlet Witch will use her magic to reassemble Vision. -Thought: Time is still very screwed because there is no Thanos and his army past Guardians 1. This possibly means Ronan never gets the power stone. Xandar is never destroyed by Thanos. Loki is never arrested and thus never is imprisoned for Thor 2. Loki and Heimdall are never killed by Thanos. There not even a Thanos to destroy the stones. Nebula doesn't exist in the past anymore so she can't be there for the Sovreign to arrest leading to the events of Guardians 2. -Theory: If Loki's Disney+ show is based on time travel how much you want to bet it's about correcting all those timeline anomalies.
Natasha was very cryptic and likely led a violent, brutal early life in the service of the Soviets or/and HYDRA alongside Bucky - that's a good reason for her selfless, silently heroic suicide. She also had no family to resurrect like Hawkeye did and like Gamora, had a tragic and abusive upbringing, so more inclined to have a violent and untimely demise.
Okay, here's my ten-cents on the matter. Black Widow's death is not firidging. It was on her own terms and done in service to the greater good. So no, it's not firidging. It's just a normal, not well-executed death.
I see there’s a lot of complaining about Captain Marvel being overpowered. My response to this: if it wasn’t solidified in my mind, it was after Thanos headbutted her and needed the use of the power stone to fend her off; the MCU writers clearly intend her to be the Avengers’ “Superman” of the team abilitywise. In fact, the first thing I thought of after she no-sold Thanos’ headbutt was Superman no-selling Batman’s robot punches in BvS when the kryptonite wore off. I wonder if that was intentional.
I think that's what they're gonna do with Guardians 3. And with Thor around, there's someone on par with the kind of power he has, and can put up a fight.
Even if Gamorra still dies, the spacetime continuum was altered before Cap because Loke got the cube and transported away (which is probably setup for the tv-show on Disney+)
26:44 missed opportuniy. If at least 1 DEFENDER, just one, it would have made everyone fangasm. like, it could have been Punisher or Daredevil and everyone would have lost their collective minds. When Rocket and Bucky are shooting, they could have shown Frank and/or deadpool with them (deapool just saying "Just roll with it"), as cameos at that would have made everyone pee in geeky bliss
Ok so if you want an idea of how many was actually there in the final battle...even freaking HOWARD THE DUCK was there. It's a blink-and-miss, but when Wasp first appears you can see Howard with a gun marching alongside. So yeah, I think we found something that put's Smash Ultimate's EVERYONE IS HERE to shame.
There was the sound of a hammer on an anvil at the end of the credits, unless I was hearing things. Tied it back to Iron Man, kind of worked. Still wanted that Adam Warlock teaser though. But yeah. This movie just worked. It was everything we needed it to be.
I can't help but feel that it would have made more sense if Scott was freed by a squirrel instead of a rat. If not, that rat better become Lady Vermin cause she deserves something.
When I was six, my family got moved to Germany. My last big request for a birthday present was that ROM Spaceknight toy Linkara is holding. It made farting electronic noises, but the comic made me LOVE that toy -- for the three minutes I owned it. My brother dismantled my ROM because electronics fascinated him. It was in pieces in a trice. My dad also got me the Shogun Warriors GODZILLA that year. But man -- ROM.
I was a bit taken aback when it was revealed that the after the snap, the Avengers stopped being heroes and instead now reviewed lamps online in an Internet review show.
Actually, having heard that Doug never paid any attention to what people reviewed, that joke is rather less funny now.
Still like it though, its just done so well.
Thatguywiththestuffies TH-cam page. The main joke is that Linkara reviews lamps as a reference from to boldly flee where Linkara asks paw what he reviews and paw replies “lamps?”. It’s been a running gag since
Someone had to replace linkara when he was snapped in that universe. :D
@@lexinelson1805 Actually, that's NOT the source of the joke, just another reference to it. The original source is a 2012 video by Sad Panda entitled "Forget About It: Top 10 TGWTG Reviewers". This was a show in which Sad Panda intentionally mis-remembers things for hilarious effect, such as Harry Potter. This particular episode featured him intentionally screwing up the shows and characters of then top TGWTG reviewers including Linkara whom he mis-characterized as a lamp reviewer. Unfortunately, that video was lost in the Blip-pocalypse and has yet to be reposted.
Ehhhh not exactly.
The joke DOES originate from To Boldly Flee. Sad Panda wrote his video after the script for To Boldly Flee came out and made a reference to it. However, because To Boldly Flee kept getting delayed, his video premiered first and thus it looked like the movie was referencing his video, instead.
I love that Hank Pym actually came to Tony's funeral, bringing him full circle, acepting a Stark
I mean he was friends with his father until his wife died
"Just making sure he's dead."
Widow's fate felt like a natural conclusion to her arc to me. Whether or not you like it is personal preference. That said I don't believe it fits the Fridge trope at all. She was more than just a plot device to motivate her male counterparts. She had her own character journey in the mcu and this was, to me at least, a fitting end.
exactly, his argument also misses how EVERYBODY expected Hawkeye to die instead, because of how he lost everything, and was always considered the weakest link of the team.
I agree. A heroic sacrifice that fits a character’s arc isn’t fridging, imo.
In another note, I do love how, like in Avengers: AoE, the writers again did everything to signal Hawkeye was going to die only to ultimately have him live. I honestly hope this becomes an ongoing gag of sorts.
Widow's fate doesn't conclude her arc at all.
Arcs are about change - they're about bringing the hero to a point where he makes a choice that he wouldn't make at the beginning of the story.
Nat's final choice, on the other hand, is just the same choice that she's been willing to make since long ago, since at least Age of Ultron. She didn't change at all in this movie. She had no arc.
It's literally as un-fridgey as a female death could be. It was wholly her own decision-- a decision she FOUGHT for. She died on her own terms.
I agree. The first Avengers movie gave us a lot of insight into Natasha's character, specifically her relationship to Clint and her reason to join Shield. She wasn't lying to Loki when she spoke about all the "red ink in her ledger"; she wasn't always on the right side and took lives, but she was given mercy and chance to make up for it by Clint. When they faced off, she could have killed so easily, but she fought as hard not to kill him as she did to save herself and others. In Ultron, she is shown as part of Clint's family as an affectionate aunt figure. Which is why she would never let Clint die. If there was a chance they could do get the stones back, Clint's family would return to a world without him if he made the sacrifice. In her mind, he had already saved her life and one that actually gave her one with friends/family and understanding. They all vowed to do whatever it took and that's what she did. She cleared that ledger and she gave Clint his cherished life with his family. A former killer who was robbed of her ability to make life herself was part of the reason that all that life in the universe came back. Very fitting and heroic.
I’m confused, I thought the problem with Women in Refrigerators was that it robbed the female characters of their agency and turned them into props. That’s not what happened with Natasha’s death. She chose to sacrifice herself both to save Clint and the universe. And yes, there is man-angst after she dies, but that’s because most of her closest friends were men. It would’ve been worse if they hadn’t been upset about her death because she was a valued member of their found family. If Wanda had still been alive I’m sure she would have been grieving too. And that actually does come up in the end when she talks with Clint about how both lost people they loved. So while this was adjacent to Women in Refrigerators, I don’t think it wasn’t a true example because the spirit of it wasn’t there. Natasha is a fully realized character who willingly gives her life, Kyle Rayner’s girlfriend was a prop.
it was a hero doing hero things with heros reacting to it like heros would.
Another thing that is a bit of a knock against it being a fridge moment is that her death does NOT motivate the characters in any way or form. It also fits the arc Natasha had been going through, to clean the red from her ledger
There is a real problem with frigging women in stories, no doubt. But I'm not sold on that being the case for natasha romanov
On your debate I think the Ancient One’s point was less about the timeline changing and more about the stones not being there to protect against specific threats in the future. For example without the time stone there’s no “Dormammu, I’ve come to bargain”.
So the timeline has already changed but if they don’t bring back the stones they’re creating a new threat for that timeline.
I get you. Banner basically told The Ancient One that as long as they closed the loop by putting the stones back they don't have to worry about screwing over HER timeline.
Yeah that’s what I interpreted too
@@ayandanxumalo9699 Just looked at IMDB quotes, found that conversation... and they've marked all Bruce's lines as the Ancient One's and vice versa. I can never unimagine that they did that, then realised they had the scripts reversed and had to do over.
Yeah that what I got too. But to be fair exposition in this movie is not very clear.
Who else thought this was just going to be Viga chanting "AVENGERS AVENGERS" for 47 minutes?
Would've been fine with that, tbh xD
I'd watch that
I mean, she did it for like 10 minutes after we got out of the theatre.
✋🏻
@@SuperheroRundown You're friends with Viga?
I mean no disrespect to you or anyone who felt bothered by Black Widow's death. That's completely fair emotional feeling to have and I have no place to tell anyone that their emotions are "wrong."
However, I feel that we are tossing fridge - criticism around too lightly. It's starting to feel like that no matter how layered they are, how much agency they had or how tasteful/thoughtful the death was, female characters dying seems to be always automatically be fridgin.
BW wasn't there just to die, she was 3 dimensional fleshed out character, her killing herself came from herself and was natural part of her character, her death wasn't meaningless and she went out in heroic way. And most importantly, the point of her death wasn't to motivate the male characters, even if they are pained by it (and they would be pretty awful, if they weren't).
Your points are well made. I also feel that, in that situation, Black Widow's sacrifice makes sense. Hawkeye has a family that will be restored, BW was alone. Combined with her life as a soldier and spy, she's the kind of person who is mentally prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice. Combine that with having to watch her closest friends devolve into misery and despair from grief for 5 years, and she may even developed depression or survivor's guilt and have welcomed the chance to sacrifice herself to fix things.
But the problem is, we tend to treat plotlines as unquestionable. "The stone needs a sacrifice, BW is there, and BW is the kind of person to make that sacrifice." But we have to recognize that none of these plotlines are sacrosanct. The characters could have gone back in time far enough to get the stone before it needed the sacrifice. Another pair could have gone. The writers of the movie chose to define parameters that would lead to BW sacrificing herself, and we have to recognize and respect that fact.
They chose to kill off one of the primary female avengers, and take a lot of wind out of the sails of the upcoming BW movie. It's not surprising people are a bit sore about the decision, given the expansive list of characters that could have gone to get the soul stone.
@@Metrion77 Problem is, they didn't know where the stone was before Vormir. They just know that's where Gamora found out and that's it.
@@callianr6980 You're thinking as if the characters were real, instead of a script on a page typed out one letter at a time. "They" don't exist, and the writers have full control of what "they" would know. There's any number of ways the writers could have written a way for the characters to learn where the stone was before Vormir. There were any number of ways for them to write a loophole for the sacrifice, and any number of other people who could be sacrificed. They chose to write the story in such a way that Black Widow specifically was at Vormir and a sacrifice was needed.
We have to recognize that both writers, the russo brothers, and a whole bunch of suits from Disney and Marvel signed off on a script that killed off Black Widow. And, for the record, I don't think it was a BAD decision, being on par with Supergirl's death in Crisis on Infinite Earths. But I can absolutely see why people view it as the complete avoidable and wasteful death that it is.
@@Metrion77 you make a valid point. My problem with Black Widow's sacrifice is that it would have made more sense if Bruce was there instead of Clint. They established a Bruce/Natasha romance in Ultron and her being the thing that Bruce had to sacrifice would have made more sense since they were a couple and not just best friends. I also felt like the Natasha/Clint scenes in this movie would have been more impactful if they had been a couple like many thought they were after seeing the first Avengers movie. As it stands, the Natasha/Bruce romance seems to be a plot thread left unresolved
I feel like of all the characters, natasha's sacrifice made the most sense regarding her arc. I understand that people are upset that we lost the only female in the original lineup, but if the A-Force scene in the final battles showed us anything, we have so many more now. With different personalities, powers, skills, backgrounds....and all incredibly badass. We lost nat but going forward we are more than set
That was NOT fridging. It was an heroic sacrifice, and the pain wasn't "man pain", it was pain for a friend. She wasn't the "female Avenger". She was an Avenger who happened to be female. If anyone was fridged, it was Vision.
Guys. Guys. Natasha. Black Widow's name is Natasha.
Came to the comments hoping I wasn't the only one who noticed 😂
It’s also Natalia. But that’s in Russian.
Natasha Romanoff = Natalia Romanova.
14:55: The “Loki getting the Tesseract and escaping” scene is probably set up for the Loki tv show coming to Disney’s new streaming service.
Probably it could be about that Loki learning of his future self's journey and death. AND if we et Luck enough, that alternate loki could gain the memories of his original now death ones.
AND Maybe Gamora too
I'm pretty sure once Captain America returns the Space Stone to its original time, the timeline is snapped back into place as per the discussion between Banner and the Ancient One. The Avengers will have never gone back in time and Loki will have never escaped. At least, I believe that's how it's supposed to work by the way it was explained.
@@loosesprocket5643 No, every change, no matter how minor, creates parallels.
the issue the ancient one brought up was the LACK of the stones in THEIR universe, as for the shenanigans that happened due to them taking them, those are permanent changes. all that cap was able to do was, return the stones.
SPOILERS AND OPINIONS BELOW
I personally don’t consider Black Widow’s death to be fridging as it makes sense for the character.
Tbh, yeah. Widow seemed stressed out and depressed in the first act in running things after the Snap. She was probably desperate to revive everyone no matter what, and that included giving up her life.
People can call it whatever they want, but to me, Widow's death is her ultimate testament of being a hero.
@@youngsmitty347 The beauty of it is that it works for both Widow and Hawkeye. Hawkeye obviously wanted to do it in order to bring his family back at this expense of his own life.
You do have a point about Thor's character "reversion" but it is kind of addressed in the film. Being the King of Asgard is what Thor is meant to be, but he wants to try to find out who he is.
Missed opportunity: An end credits scene featuring Deadpool showing up at the ruins of Avengers HQ shouting "OK what'd I miss?!"
Yes
It's a small thing but I liked when Spider-man activated Instant Kill mode because it linked back to Homecoming when he was messing with the new suit and nearly turned it on by accident. It'd be funny if he accidentally turned on interrogation mode during the big battle though.
The thing about Thor's arc is that Ragnarok wasn't the end of it. The point of the arc through Ragnarok and Infinity War was to keep taking things away from him until he broke. Until he recognised that he _could_ fail. Because for every humbling event before that he'd gotten it back. But he lost his dad, his hammer, his home, his brother, his people... and it was on him. And now in Endgame he gets to the low point where he gives up on everything he was given, everything he was told he was... and with his mother's blessing starts becoming who he _chooses_ to be.
Also, the Thor stuff isn't a waste of time. Thor had a traumatic experience and part of his arc over the Guardian's film and Taika's new movie will take that character through those experiences.
Spoilers:
I disagree on the black widow death being a fridge moment. It made sense for the character and for her to do that so hawkeye could be with his family.
I agree with a lot of the comments that it wasn't fridging. One the one hand it was her choice and a heroic sacrifice. On the other hand it was the most emotional way to do this, because of the relationship between Clint and Nat, and was a satisfying closure to her character arc of wiping out the red in her ledger.
“The renaissance has happened, it’s gone”
Disney needs to get to the enlightenment already, honestly
The issue wasn't anything with the Space-time continuum, it was just that the alternate timelines also needed the Infinite Stones.
About Black Widow’s death, the scene was originally written for Hawkeye to die, but it was a woman on the crew on the film’s development who told the writers and directors not to take this heroic moment away from Black Widow.
The fridge term is being misapplied too often these days, and preventing people from seeing the scene’s true intentions.
When I think of Fridging, I think of characters who go down without putting up a fight (Or putting up a very weak and pointless fight), where their agency is stripped away and it doesn't matter what they think or what choices they make, they're going to die as a poor little victim who couldn't do anything while the hero spends a lot of time remembering her that way, as a poor little victim. Vanessa in deadpool 2 getting shot in the chest with no way to protect herself was fridging. Gwen Stacey hanging helplessly until the line was cut and all she could do was look up shock and terrified as she fell was fridging.
That's not what happened to BW. She died proud, sure and ready as a result of an choice she made. She fought hard against her friend for the right to make that choice, knowing full well why she was doing it. That's not bing a victim, that's being self sacrificing, and person who risks or self sacrifices for the sake of others? That's dictionary definition of a hero.
Although admittedly it is kind of shitty that we see Tony Stark's big funeral but nothing for her. I mean I guess it would have messed up the pacing to have two funeral scenes but still, something that says when the battle is over and done with that she was honored.
MadameTamma Black Widow reminds me most of Supergirl from Crisis on Infinite Earths, which I consider the greatest death scene in all of fiction.
Very few people likely even knew who Black Widow was, and fewer would really have been the 'invite to the funeral' type. As they said, the only 'family' she ever had was the avengers, so they likely just had a private memorial service for her. Where-as Tony's death was big news and his funeral was the sort of thing EVERYONE who possibly could would show up for, giving us that massive scene.
Why did she need a funeral? The Avengers clearly grieved her. And it was more than just a token acknowledgement.
@7Seraphem7
Most of people we saw in Iron Man’s funeral were Avengers (and some family and Pepper’s family probably but that wasn’t the focus of the shot). BW could have had the same. But I imagine she did off screen, there didn’t need to be two funerals on screen.
I can't believe you didn't recognize that Bruce had become "professor hulk" from the comics
I don't think anyone has, everyone I've seen just keeps complaining about him " not being their Hulk "
@@WinterFox1000 i know (i was the only comic geek in my theater ) i was saying professor hulk? ...holy crap my least fave hulk (fave is joe fixit or what i call him mobster hulk) but still cool to see him
He reads little Marvel comics.
Ok im saying this as a huge black widow fan.....that was not a fridging. Natasha is not Rayners girlfriend killed in the first issue for shock value. She made the choice to self sacrifice, has a lot of character growth throughout the mcu, and seriously...man pain? Clints pain is because he lost his best friend. This was about showing how true their friendship was, the fact one is a man and other is a woman is irrelevant. This was earned. Also, apparently the original plan was for Hawkeye to die, but one of the production assistants went to the writers and said "dont take this moment from her." Like seriously, Linkara, i agree we with 99% of what you say regarding this kind of topic.....but you are way off base here.
Agreed, female characters can never died if everything is fridging. They in review say it caused pain for the others but actually people have been more upset that there wasn’t a bigger deal made of her death since Iron Man had a funeral. I think if you are comic book reader you might get too hyper aware of possible fridging.
First off, how did you guys miss mentioning...
"Hey Cap. On your left."
Second, I agree with viga here with gamora. Past gamora is the one that's around. And the space time continuem is likely not circling the drain, because ONLY the stones being removed from time impacts the time steams. So the stones likely have a power to self correct events once they go back in time. Making it as though the time heist never happened.
As for past gamora, I think she will somehow gain the memories of the present gamora in the next guardiens movie. Which is in the future...
past gamora is the equivalent of preset trunks staying in future trunks timeline and not coming back to present (apply to the MCU dragon ball logic of time travel).
i agree n her somehow gaining the memoris of the original gamora. because maybe, when the soul gem was destroyed "the souls got released" somehow
It might be that removing the timestone specifically caused the timeline to get screwed up. Cause it was needed to beat Dormamu later.
Omg Rocket knows more about the Earth then star lord does
BlackMagicRose3 also star lord arriving on earth is the first time he'd been on earth since he was 8. I like to think that after Tony's funeral but before leaving Norway that he went to Missouri, tracked down his mom's remaining family (assuming his grandfather is still alive) in order to properly say goodbye/visit his mom's grave.
Avengers: Endgame was pretty much if the three Back to the Future movies were edited into one big movie and I freaking love it!
Scott Lang: "Back to the Future is full of shit."
30:39 They explained earlier in the movie that time travel in this universe is like Dragon Ball Z. Going back doesn't change history, it creates an alternate timeline universe. This is how present Nebula was able to kill past Nebula without any consequences. And how killing past Thanos and all his minions didn't completely screw up time. Or how Loki was able to run off with the Tesseract without changing history. The only thing that messes this theory up is old man Cap staying in the past and growing old to the present (unless he jumped back to the present at some point off camera).
but didn't bruce say that when you bring back the power stone to where they got then the new universe would cease to exist?
Per the directors, that's exactly what he did. Jumped back to the 'main' timeline after Peggy died in his.
And the talk with Bruce was rather confusing. No matter what, that timeline would split off into it's own, even if they were right about putting the stone's back, since they already changed major events by letting Loki get free with the Tesseract. The bigger issue was that without the Time Stone, that whole timeline would be utterly fucked later on when Strange would need it to stop Dormamu.
Rom Spaceknight is actually having its own movie and it's going to be written by the same guy who made Ready Player One!
I love that bit at the end
Viga: Why do you love me?
Lewis: Cos you make me smile
Now I know, and understand another level about relationships
I find it incredibly ironic that you guys are bashing on Black Widow's death for the Soul Stone as "man pain" (whatever the hell that is?), when *neither* of you can even remember her actual name. It's Natasha, not Natalie.
... You know that only adds to the point right? That only shows how she's a plot device for most movies (Except Winter Soldier)
@@MiloKuroshiro Or it just shows that Linkara and his wife weren't paying attention...
actually it's both
"The snap may have taken all of my friends, but at least the lines at Disney World and Six Flags are short! :D "
*the last snap brings everyone back*
"DAMMIT!"
Also, about the soul stone scene, I remember thinking "I wouldn't necessarily call it 'fridging' or at least one of the more egregious examples, but wouldn't it have been *so* much more effective if it was Hawkeye?"
Logan Palmer Widow had red in her ledger. She feels this sacrifice will help deal with that red.
For how little she was in the movie, I feel like Captain Marvel did a lot of good when she was in it. Helped kill Present Thanos, acts as a tank as she's Kirbying into Thanos' ship just in the nick of time to prevent Spider-Man from developing PTSD. Which I think is one of the most heroic things that anyone manages to pull off in this movie.
I can't agree with this idea that Nat's sacrifice was a bad thing just because she was a woman. Personally I think they should have both gone over the side and had their selflessness rewarded by being given the Soul Stone without need for a sacrifice. That said I don't see this as fridge material. I don't think Nat died to "move a male character's story forward". Yes, she sacrificed herself to keep Clint alive, but that was a choice made of her own volition for the sake of his family. In other words: It was an in-story choice not a narrative imposition.
As for returning the stones vs returning Gamora etc. Returning the stones to the exact point at which they were taken would trim the timeline in which Thanos takes his fleet to the future. Past Gamora is a cosmic leftover from the timeline where Thanos comes to the future. At least that's my read.
Agree.
Tony/Iron Man: The selfish man becomes selfless
Steve/CPT America: The selfless man becomes selfish
You guys know that Black Widow’s real name is Natasha and not Natalie, right?
It’s Natalia. That’s her real name in Russian.
@@dvader518 Natalia is her full name. Natasha can be fully considered as her real name too
Glass of gas Yes.
In Russia, it’s Natalia Romanova.
Anglicised, it’s Natasha Romanoff.
Loki's disappearance is most likely set up for a Loki TV series for disney's streaming platform.
EDIT: Also, I think the reason nobody died when Thanos bombed the compound was because Tony activated the bomb doors to keep them safe when Hulk used the gauntlet.
The gigantic battle when Cap says "AVENGERS, ASSEMBLE" was like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate ("Yes, everyone is here!
except for Vision and Black Widow and Loki and Heimdall and the Warriors Three and Lady Sif and also 2018!Gamora is still dead so 2014!Gamora fighting against Thanos' army doesn't count but she'll probably come back for (As)Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3))
Great vlog!
I saw the film earlier this morning and absolutely loved it! It was everything I wanted it to be. The action, comedy and drama was all great. The whole final battle from when Cap, Thor and Iron Man confront Thanos to the end of it was my absolute favourite part of the film! There were loads of cheering moments for me. The four parts that I loved the most were Cap holding the hammer, everyone coming out and getting ready to fight and the "Avengers Assemble" line, Scarlet Witch attacking Thanos, Captain Marvel's entrance and the women of the MCU shot. Those moments were AMAZING!!!
On a different note, while I get your complaint about Thor going backwards character wise, I'd argue that him not being king anymore made sense for his character. The way I see it is that while he had accepted being king of Asgard, it wasn't what he really wanted. After all, he DID decline being king in The Dark World. I see him not being king anymore as a bit of a relief for him. Him being king was what he HAD and accepted to do, but not what he WANTED to do. Hope I made sense here.
Keep up the great videos :)
“I don't want to make merely intellectual films. I want audiences to feel, to sense my films. This to me is much more important than their understanding them.”
- Ingmar Bergman
Well, we know there's going to be a Loki series on Disney+, so that might cover his adventures with the Tesseract?
Have to admit, didn't think of Natalie dying as fridging, she played a major role, someone had to go and there are other female heroes.
Honestly that group female shot kind of felt forced, its not like Carol needed the help, she just blasts through everything, but yeah, plenty of strong females for Phase 4.
To all who have been a part of this journey, thank you for everything.
And to all who are joining?
Welcome to the *Marvel Universe*
This was the most epic comic book movie I've ever seen. Even the time travel makes comic book sense. But that final fight, oh god that was the most glorious thing I've ever seen in history
May it forever go down in cinema history like the T-Rex intro scene in Jurassic Park or the Death Star trench attack in Star wars.
Plus, the time travel rules are consistent with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 5 where the concern over how time travel works is a big part of the conflict and the characters worrying about what they should be doing to prevent what happens in that season, so that was cool to me as a fan of the movie and show sides of the MCU.
@@Logan912 Maybe you can explain it to me. I was all on board with the whole diverging timelines thing, but I don't get why Cap shows up at the end? Seems like it conflicts with the rest of the movie. Like, shouldn't he be off in a different timeline?
@@Judicator11 as far as I can tell, it's kinda like doctor who rules of time travel. There are specific fixed points in time, and everything else is fair game when done right. The stones are fixed points, while cap going back to Peggy changed the timeline slightly but didn't implode the space-time continuum
@@BionicleGio22210 mmm, I guess I see what you mean. Makes the movie somehow worse to me though, it sounds a bit too half-assed and convenient - a silly complaint for a comic book movie I suppose, but I liked it better as a scientifically plausable multiverse kinda thing.
Just like with the first Avengers in 2012, Avengers: Endgame has instantly become one of my favorite films of 2019.
The ending climatic battle is one of my nerd fantasies come true.
Finally some appreciation for the Ladies shot.
I just loved it.
Btw, I went "YEAH!" to when Cap got Mjölner.
the thing about the "abusive love" is that, the stone DOESNT CARE, what it DOES CARE, is if THE PERSON DOING THE SACRIFICING belives the feeling to be real. and in Thanos case, he does see her as his most precious thing. so was he a monster? yes, but he also trully belived that he loved her above everything else.
on Black widows case, however, it was a play on what we expected to see, she was an integral part of the team, and he was always considered the "weakest link" of the team, so it made sense to sacrifice him, but the movie pulled a switcheroo on the last minute.
Yeah, here's the thing: what you are using is called the Thermian Argument. The idea is that it's okay as long as it's consistent with the rules established within the universe.
Problem is: this is fiction. It is a fictional world. It is a world a writer made up. And a writer decided "Yeah, your abusive, controlling emotions are a valid expression of love in the eyes of a universal cosmic force."
again, you are missing the point of the thing, the movie didnt defend thanos, on the contrary! it shows just how twisted he is. he was called the "mad titan", and we can see that indeed, the guy is insane. he trully belives what he did was love.
so while i get what you are saying, i disagree because you are coming from a place of "but that isnt love", and me, and the movie agrees with you, that's just how disturbing thanos mental gymnastics is...
look, your argument is, "the universe agrees with him", thing is, the universe doesnt care, the task was, "sacrifice something YOU love", not "sacrifice something I SEE AS LOVE".
@@marcosdheleno Which, this movie shows that is NOT even a literal phrase for what needs to happen, since Clint didn't 'sacrifice' Natasha but still got the stone. It's also taking in some huge assumption about this being 'the universe' judging things, when it could all be some mystical equivalent of a basic series of logic gates. "If: Death occurs at bottom of cliff; And-Living sentient being detected at top of cliff; and-grief detected in said being; then-Give Soul Stone to being on cliff."
The only thing that matters is that Thanos felt grief, that in his mind, this was a 'sacrifice', not how valid said feelings were to anyone else.
7Seraphem7 exactly! thats why i said "the universe doesnt care", its a trial challenge, it asks for something "loved" to be given, and by "loved" it means something YOU love, not "something that loves you", not "something that has felt true love", and certainly not "something most people see as love".
it asks for 1 thing, "sacrifice something YOU LOVE". and like you said, it could be something the person who placed the stone set as basically "show me loss".
I don't know if you end up covering this because I paused it after you commented on your disagreement regarding Gamora and the timeline issue. The way I read it was that each time jump that made a paradoxical change caused a alternate timeline, and the stones needed to be returned, not to stop a paradox of 'the past movies can't happen if the stones disappear', but 'if the stones don't go back we're dooming the alternate realities that needed the stones to stop the threats of their timeline'. e.g. If the time and mind stone wasn't returned to the New York timeline then Domamu would have succeeded in his plans. This would also mean there are two majorly divergent timelines (since the Asgard timeline didn't really have any major damage outside of the aether and Mjolnir being temporarily stolen) of Loki escaping with the teseract in the New York timeline and Thanos and his children disappearing from the Space timeline.
Missing the forest for the trees on Vormir I think. The subtext is clearly that Thanos uses love as a blunt instrument to get what he wants where as Black Widow is showing the honest to god self sacrificing love. It doesn't matter that both "gain the approval of the universe" another phrase that tired of hearing yeah the universe allows bad things to happen, thanks eagle eye, it matters that one gains the approval of the narrative. You know the act that ends up winning.
It's not even some 'the universe' doing anything, it's just how the Stone was set up. It could be just some unfeeling computer at work that is doing nothing more then following a series of logic gates. "If: Death occurs at bottom of cliff; And-Living sentient being detected at top of cliff; and-grief detected in said being; then-Give Soul Stone to being on cliff." No judgement needed beyond we there basic, objective facts.
SPOILERS!
Fun fact: That random kid behind Wanda and co. at Tony's funeral was the kid from Iron Man 3. Now he's lost two dads in his life.
holy shit so that's who he was
Thank you! I didn’t recognize him ^_^
That wasn't fun at all.
Thanos with power stone: I AM A MAN!!!
I like to think that Thor going off with the Guardians is his way of getting his groove back after the trauma and whatnot of the past 5 years. Would've been better if he told Valkyrie that he'd be back, but after everything he's been thru, I think he merits a bit of r&r.
I personally don't think 2012 Loki getting the Space Stone will affect anything, it was a wrench in the original plan to get it but that's as far as it goes.
Howard the Duck was in the fight too.
No my friend, 2014 Thanos and his army were just killed, 2014 Gamora is wandering around somewhere in 2019, and the stones (and Thor's Hammer) were returned to their respective points in time cause they still needed to do that. I'm not happy with the idea of replacing Gamora with a version of herself from a previous point in time, replacement Goldfish much?, but I'm pretty sure it's implied she is still in the present.
Also, Tony gets a funeral....but not Natasha?!??! WTF?!
Last time we see Thor's hammer is in Cap's hand. Old cap doesn't have it. Maybe he gave it back to past/future Thor, but I don't see how.
@@daltonwilliams1723 He just dropped it off in Asgard at the same time he returned The Aether there.
ok I admit it's been a while but I'm pretty sure Black Widow's real name is NATASHA, not "Natalie."
It's actually Natalia Romanova. Natasha Romanoff is an anglosized version though.
In the comics it was natasha but was retconned to be natalia. In the mcu natasha was her real name but natalie was her undercover name in iron man 2
Spoiler spoiler:
I think that the alternate realities did occur because of the past Loki who escaped with the Space Stone survived and we don't see what's happening to him or how it resolved in the film. I don't know, maybe I'm completely wrong.
But, Disney did planned on making a Loki series, so....?
Nanna Leifa I just imagine Loki running amok in the universe being all "I'm in your timeline fucking up your shit"
About the "live action" Lion King trailer: I'm with you on that Viga. The original Lion King is one of my favorite movies of all time that I grew up watching over and over, and I could probably literally recite the entire movie line for line. I don't want a tacky low-effort "remake" version, when the original, though imperfect, was fantastic and has no need for that. Another thing I didn't like was how, in the trailer I saw, they did a lot of the same stuff, literally SHOT-FOR-SHOT EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE ORIGINAL! What is the freaking point, you are literally doing the same thing but not as well, and it made me want to cry.
SPOILER BELOW, TAGGING JUST IN CASE
My issue with nat's fridging wasn't the fridging itself. It's how much it got overshadowed. Tony gets a whole chunk of funeral/mourning stuff etc. Nat gets... a couple throwaway lines afterwards between two characters.
I think Black Widow's movie is a prequel set in the late 90's-early 00's. The villain is confirmed to be Taskmaster.
Confirmed to be a prequel.
The Sokovia Accords are dead because someone figured out that they were unconstitutional.
Linkara man I love your content but sometimes dude I feel like talking out your butt what happened to Thor is calling negative character arc he has a man in the mourning he has fallen he's lost his home his father his mother his brother 3/4 of his peoplefirced to kill his sister and is obviously suffering from severe alcoholism and depression again bro I love your content but I feel like you need a a world view outside of the bubble you live in I think that his storeyArc in all the movies is a perfect next step in who he is and who he has become and who he is going to further become in future movies
The rat was Master Splinter
Garrison Moncher To quote Screen rant Super easy barely and inconvenience
Considering the ooze canister that mutated him and the turtles was the same one that blinded Daredevil, that would make too much sense.
The random boy at Iron Man's funeral was the boy from Iron Man 3.
I think the logic of time travel is branching futures, and cap came back old from an alternate timeline. And the reason the stones have to go back is per timeline. Still, it seems to be multiversal logic in play.
maybe is more like "some are stable time loops, and sme aren't". while the time travel they did to get the infinity gems was to mch it branches out timelines, forming alternate universes, some other time travels were for some reason "not enough to branch", like say, clint's "test run" and steve's "staying"
It's starting to feel like a subset of the internet is going to knee-jerk yell "FRIDGING" every time a woman dies in a comic book movie and a man reacts to it. Vanessa in Deadpool 2 was fridged; to the point the PG13 edit called it out. Gamora and Black Widow were not.
Also for fuck's sake: if you're going to complain it's disrespectful or whatever how Black Widow died, you could get her name right at least once in a 45-minute video.
Wait a minute... if Cap put back all the stones, including the Soul Stone, then he ran into Red Skull. I wonder what that reunion was like.
rogers son of.........bitch your still alive?
same here
This film made me realize just what a herculean task making a movie with ALL these different characters from these different settings (The wackiness of Ragnarok, the seriousness of CA: Winter Soldier, the darkness of Infinity War, the irreverence of GotG) work together and still feel natural. I tip my hat to the writers Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, they are truly great writers and this was a wonderful send-off to the current era of the MCU.
I view Natasha's death less as "Killing a woman just to get an emotional reaction" and more as a character who has committed horrific crimes in the past, both knowingly under the KGB and unknowingly under Hydra-Shield, finally seeing a way to get the red off her ledger for good, while saving her best friend's life and saving his children from having to live without their father. In the word's of Bolvar Fordragon "You still have your own stories to tell. This last act of service... is mine alone."
What happened to Black Widow wasn't fridiging. She killed herself for the plot and to save the universe. Calling it a frigidning is like calling Thanos's abusive love to Gamora as actual love.
Old Gamora is dead, as everyone is gone that was not snapped. So past Gamora is still alive but in the future. The thor to me seems quite a bit more natural then you guys think it is. More than a google of people died because of him. Having ptsd and survivor guilt can shatter a lot of people.
makes me wonder then what the hell "Wandavision" is gonna be about.
you now, given vision is dead
Hell, he was pretty on the edge of barely holding his shit together after Thanos' attack in the start of IW. It was just focusing on getting vengeance that kept him functional, and then he failed at even that. Yeah, I can fully see him just saying 'fuck it' after that.
Sadly, we'll probably never see Cap return the Soul Stone to Vormir and find out that Red Skull is still alive. I imagine his reaction would be similar to his earlier line of "You gotta be shitting me."
The rematch I was hoping for, but sadly won't get to see... Damn it!
@@johnnygyro2295 Red Skull really seems to have mellowed out after getting the Soul Stone keeper gig. I don't think he'd want to fight Cap again.
Black widow is a confirmed prequel
I was sooo down about Dr.Strange and Iron Man. I was so prepared to see that one of them say "No sh!t, Sherlock" to another XD
Loki and Scarlet Witch are getting their own show and The show for Loki is about him messing around with human history after he escaped with the Tesseract. I really hope Linkara sees this
Loki tv show will probably explain your one
Question
Spoilers,
With past Gamora maybe she will start remembering stuff from her future self.
Also Capt will run into the Red Skull again, since he replaced the Infinity Stones (and Mjolnir) to their original places in time, to try to limit the damage to the time line. (I do wonder what happened when someone 'returns' the Soul Stone, would that mean Natasha could come back)
One other thing the fact that Clint and Natasha was sent to get the Soul Stone raises a ton of questions about Nebula and Tony's motives if they knew what the cost of the Soul Stone would be.
Splinter saved the day! TMNT in MCU Series 2 confirmed!
My favorite part of Endgame was when US-1 saved the day by running Thanos over with his truck.
Definitely didn't see that coming!
If Natasha's death was a fridging, then Tony's death was a fridging as well (even though neither of them are).
Something that threw me off was Ned seeing Peter and hugging him while starting to cry. No problem with that short scene itself, but it implies that Ned had survived the finger snap and had been around for 5 years, yet he looks the same age he was in Homecoming. Shouldn't he look older like Cassie Lang did and not even be in high school anymore? Or was he a student teacher at this point? Other than that, Nebula killed her past self and Thanos forces from 2014 were wiped out, so shouldn't a paradox have been created? I'm curious how Gunn is going to tackle this and the new Gamora Quill relationship in Vol 3.
Ned didn't survive the snap, none of Peter's friends survived, hence why they're not out of high school in Far From Home. I feel like that scene was meant to illustrate Peter seeing a bunch of new kids and realizing how long it's been, only to see his best friend still there for him
Ace Möwick I don’t think it implies he survived that 5 years but that they knew something had happened and were glad to see each other again.
@@typhontwister still think Ned's reaction implied that he survived while thinking Pete was dead. Now if aunt May had been around for 5 years it would have been a good reason to age her up a bit
@@80s_Kid_and_Collectibles plausible, however I think the tears Ned had implied otherwise, but that's just me
25:00 for some reason, one of my favorite moments in the movie was Peter Parker/Spider-Man protecting the Infinity gauntlet with everything he got, and even during the missiles falling he grabbed to that like if his live depended on it, and meekly says hello to carol when she comes. like, peter reminded me of miles morales from into the spider-verse at that moment
It wasn't a rat, it was Howard the Duck forced into the body of a rat!
(Please tell me someone gets this reference)
I got the reference, and I appreciate your attempt at comedy
@Frost E Bear haw. That is just the tip of the iceberg
I got the reference, and recognize that it's even funnier when you realize that Howard is actually in the movie (you can see him next to a group of Ravagers right when Wasp appears for the final battle.)
@@mr_lrb6879 I gotta rewatch the movie just for that
The hammer moment made everyone in my cinema cheer as well.
Yeah, cheer and clap and holler AND WHO CAN BLAME THEM?!?
Ok favorite parts/theories of the movie and SPOILERS below:
-Best Callback: Peter finally gets that hug from Iron Man.
-Favorite Part: All the portals open up and the army of allies pours through to the Avengers theme.
-Theory: Cap returned the Soul Stone so does that mean Natasha is returned to us because the soul is returned.
-Theory: Scarlet Witch will use her magic to reassemble Vision.
-Thought: Time is still very screwed because there is no Thanos and his army past Guardians 1. This possibly means Ronan never gets the power stone. Xandar is never destroyed by Thanos. Loki is never arrested and thus never is imprisoned for Thor 2. Loki and Heimdall are never killed by Thanos. There not even a Thanos to destroy the stones. Nebula doesn't exist in the past anymore so she can't be there for the Sovreign to arrest leading to the events of Guardians 2.
-Theory: If Loki's Disney+ show is based on time travel how much you want to bet it's about correcting all those timeline anomalies.
Captain America is running a support group for directors of this movie who lived though the snap :)
Natasha was very cryptic and likely led a violent, brutal early life in the service of the Soviets or/and HYDRA alongside Bucky - that's a good reason for her selfless, silently heroic suicide. She also had no family to resurrect like Hawkeye did and like Gamora, had a tragic and abusive upbringing, so more inclined to have a violent and untimely demise.
I hope that in the next Spiderman movie that Peter becomes sort of a surrogate older brother for Morgan Stark.
To me, one thing funny thing about Endgame is how much it connects to Age of Ultron of all things.
Okay, here's my ten-cents on the matter. Black Widow's death is not firidging. It was on her own terms and done in service to the greater good.
So no, it's not firidging. It's just a normal, not well-executed death.
I see there’s a lot of complaining about Captain Marvel being overpowered. My response to this: if it wasn’t solidified in my mind, it was after Thanos headbutted her and needed the use of the power stone to fend her off; the MCU writers clearly intend her to be the Avengers’ “Superman” of the team abilitywise. In fact, the first thing I thought of after she no-sold Thanos’ headbutt was Superman no-selling Batman’s robot punches in BvS when the kryptonite wore off. I wonder if that was intentional.
Isn’t Adam warlock in a relationship with gamora at one point? So couldn’t it be a love triangle with a past version of gamora?
Matthew Rooney Right now he is still in a cocoon
I think that's what they're gonna do with Guardians 3. And with Thor around, there's someone on par with the kind of power he has, and can put up a fight.
Good to see that I wasn't the only one to think of Star Trek VI when the actors' autographs came on screen. :)
Even if Gamorra still dies, the spacetime continuum was altered before Cap because Loke got the cube and transported away (which is probably setup for the tv-show on Disney+)
Please don't diss Thorstagg, Norse God of Beer and Chicken Wings
26:44 missed opportuniy. If at least 1 DEFENDER, just one, it would have made everyone fangasm. like, it could have been Punisher or Daredevil and everyone would have lost their collective minds. When Rocket and Bucky are shooting, they could have shown Frank and/or deadpool with them (deapool just saying "Just roll with it"), as cameos at that would have made everyone pee in geeky bliss
Even though they say New Asgard is in Norway, I prefer to think it was in Scotland, based on the fact you can see a bottle of Irn Bru on the table.
well from what most people say it's somewhere in Scandinavia
I assume someone has already pointed out that “Nat” is short for “Natasha,” not “Natalie?” :p
I died of laughter when we got instant kill from spider-man, and when ant man punched the spaceship
Ok so if you want an idea of how many was actually there in the final battle...even freaking HOWARD THE DUCK was there. It's a blink-and-miss, but when Wasp first appears you can see Howard with a gun marching alongside. So yeah, I think we found something that put's Smash Ultimate's EVERYONE IS HERE to shame.
There was the sound of a hammer on an anvil at the end of the credits, unless I was hearing things.
Tied it back to Iron Man, kind of worked.
Still wanted that Adam Warlock teaser though. But yeah. This movie just worked. It was everything we needed it to be.
I can't help but feel that it would have made more sense if Scott was freed by a squirrel instead of a rat. If not, that rat better become Lady Vermin cause she deserves something.
When I was six, my family got moved to Germany. My last big request for a birthday present was that ROM Spaceknight toy Linkara is holding. It made farting electronic noises, but the comic made me LOVE that toy --
for the three minutes I owned it.
My brother dismantled my ROM because electronics fascinated him. It was in pieces in a trice. My dad also got me the Shogun Warriors GODZILLA that year.
But man -- ROM.