Statement of Comment Etiquette for New Thinking Allowed You are asked to be courteous at all times to all participants, and to limit your comments to the topics discussed in the videos. Your thoughtful participation is encouraged. If you post insulting comments here or promote political propaganda, conspiracy theories, or religious dogmas as if they were the absolute truth, you will have disqualified yourself and you will be permanently banned from posting on this channel. Except however, if you still want to post an aggressively rude or off-topic comment (and haven't yet been banned from posting), go visit our monolog about George Carlin at th-cam.com/video/e5MKv667TRI/w-d-xo.html. All comments will be accepted there, but not here.
I see Gary Lachman, I click. 👍 That first trichotomy of personality types he mentions also appears in Colin Wilson's The Outsider, providing the key chapter on Lawrence, Njinsky, and Van Gogh.
I also became interested in Gurdjieff after reading Colin Wilson's book, "The Occult" in my 20s (this would have been in the early 1980s). Around the same time I first encountered Nicoll's name in EF Schumacher's book, "Guide for the Perplexed". Subsequent to this I started reading Ouspensky and the first volume of Nicoll's, "Psychological Commentaries". This latter was interesting because it was a methodical survey. I then contacted a Gurdjieff group, because I was interested in joining. I will never forget speaking to the young lady and being creeped out. I suppose she was "self-remembering" throughout the conversation, but paradoxically, I felt like I was talking to a robot. That was the end of that. I know that I am generalizing but over the years my impression of many of its followers is that they come from the strain of New Agers who want to slavishly believe in something. I will admit that the notion that "man is a machine, and that he is not awake" is compelling and contains no small amount of truth. My problem with it all is that it places too much emphasis on the "heroic ego". It recognizes that there are "many I's" but it looks at them as pathological and that they must be reeled in under the Self. Nicoll's interpretation of the biblical parables seems stilted and seems to want to interpret them all from the perspective of a Gurdjieffian world view. My take away is to stay away from any system such as this. Yes, take into account that "man is a machine" and that attention is very important as is introducing some form of chaos to break up habitual thinking.
The lesson is being able to know exactly why you never "give it a break" when you speak And having knowledge of the machine that makes modern science look like blind Which means knowing exactly what levers to pull to make that Wolf a Shepard But when you write like that, its clear to those that know, your no Sheep , you may be wearing their clothing though :) In context to the Human narrative "little moving radiations of evil"
I first encountered Gary Lachman through his book on Jung, I just finished the one on Swedenborg. I think I've seen all the interviews on this channel. His writing and his converational style make these figures in mysticism and esoterica very accessible to someone like me, who -- other than the two I just mentioned and another of his subjects, Colin Wilson -- I have known nothing or very little about. Thank you.
Cheers! I've been happily waiting for this book and interview. Gary Lachman is the best researcher to shine a light on Nicoll, whose Psychological Commentaries enabled me to grasp the Fourth Way teaching.
The two most important words I've ever read; "remember yourself" - IN SEARCH OF THE MIRACULOUS , Ouspensky Gurjieff instructs Ouspensky to do this exercise, Ouspensky finds it takes years to do it without constantly forgetting (as it did me!)
Its great I know, "I remembered my whole childhood" Which according to science is not possible , no one remembers below the age of 7 , its not possible , I can remember everything to the age of 3, nothing below that Now why is that ? I mean what events did you remember ? What has happened to you ? during your life that you still carry with you every moment of your existence ? That thing that means every interaction you have with life, is through the lens of that thing you actually learnt to remember occurring , That machine records everything past the age of 7, not before, why is that ? What did you learn ? can you remember In the now there is nothing, there is no SELF the futures self has not happened so that SELF cant be remembered the only SELF that you can remember is the past self, the one that experienced the things that made you act the way you act today , can you remember yourself ? Start by just remembering you walking around yesterday, fight to remember the good stuff Your in a negotiation with your Thalamus and your Thalamus speaks in wishes
@@GaryLachman Mr. Lachman: It may be of interest to you, that I subsequently learned the source of Gurdjieff's teaching about the "positive emotions of the HEC", which for some reason he did not transmit to his students. Both Orage and Ouspensky complained about that. It's the "lataif" of Sufism -- Wikipedia has a good article about it . . .
Monty Python is gods own humor, therefore I purchased a Nicoll book 😂❤ if the court-jester of the universe John Cleese reads it that’s all I need to know. I loved this talk, it was so very human. I’m not used to understanding in this way. But I’m warming up to it. It has its charms. If you want weird, I’m your man and woman. ❤
Gary relates these histories with commendable fidelity and discrimination, in my opinion. One small detail about the car crash -- some days earlier, a student at the Prieure was asked by G to take the Citroën to town for a safety inspection, and to pay particular attention to the steering components. So, like other notable people in the Work, he may well have had a premonition about it. As for anyone who has faced these questions honestly, the potential for progress is at the same time evident and yet dismayingly elusive. Or rather, progress is not something to be kept or relied on, but improved. The potency for that seems to be what sets G apart from most of his followers. But readers of Beelzebub's Tales will find there plenty of material for practice.
wow. 1915 Saint Petersburg … with a 1917 departure. that’s the same timeline as Mathilde Kschessinska 😳💘 i am suddenly much more interested in hearing more about The Fourth Way, and in reading this book. i am not all that far into the interview yet, but so far it is Top-Shelf. thanks for another great interview, Jeffrey + Gary. 💙💚
that Observatory sounds really cool 🥹✨🪐✨ and it sounds more like a toy for Guirdeff, not the cornerstone for an Institution. i too vote yes on the observatory and no on the church building! i wish he had built it so i could visit it…
Gary is amazing and I became a fan when I saw and bought his lecture about Jung in Amazon Prime video and listen to it a lot plus the imagery is great.
@@GaryLachman apocryphal=Of questionable authorship or authenticity. Erroneous; fictitious. So you are saying the book is fiction, not true. Any proof that is written by Idries Shah? The book basically says that Gurjieff was trained by the Sufis as an experiment to bring it to the West, and the Gurdjieff's teaching has no successors. Those claiming to represent Gurdjieff's teaching are not in the real lineage. Best to look elsewhere, is my understanding.
Can anyone confirm here that Gurdjieff once spent time incarcerated on Rikers Island? And if this is the case, have any of his students subsequently attempted to gain access to records of his time there?
I hear you. I only asked because I recall reading about this peculiar titbit back in the 90s (possibly in James Webb's Harmonious Circle) and it has subsequently stuck in my mind. I mean, imagine being the cellmate who ended up sharing a bunk bed with Gurdjieff.
“Multiple experiments with spirit contact transmitted the name Matthew Edward Hall on several occasions. I predict this to be a very important future individual in humanities development. Possibly the second embodiment of Christ on Earth.” G.I. Gurdjieff Gentlemen, are either of you familiar with this quote from G ?
Wow, was very much into this until time stamp 14:30ish when guest so arrogantly assumes writers from any lineage posses polite political comforts so as to speak freely. Shameful
Statement of Comment Etiquette for New Thinking Allowed
You are asked to be courteous at all times to all participants, and to limit your comments to the topics discussed in the videos. Your thoughtful participation is encouraged. If you post insulting comments here or promote political propaganda, conspiracy theories, or religious dogmas as if they were the absolute truth, you will have disqualified yourself and you will be permanently banned from posting on this channel. Except however, if you still want to post an aggressively rude or off-topic comment (and haven't yet been banned from posting), go visit our monolog about George Carlin at th-cam.com/video/e5MKv667TRI/w-d-xo.html. All comments will be accepted there, but not here.
Always good to hear Gary Lachman's historical thoughts.
thank you Mr. Lachman for your body of work and thank you Dr. Mishlove for sharing these interviews.
I see Gary Lachman, I click. 👍
That first trichotomy of personality types he mentions also appears in Colin Wilson's The Outsider, providing the key chapter on Lawrence, Njinsky, and Van Gogh.
Nicoll’s Psychological Commentaries are remarkable.
I must re-read them.
Love Gary and his books! A Very Favorite of mine.❤ (Not to mention his music!)
Gary Lachman is just amazing. I listen to him all the time. He's a genius.
I also became interested in Gurdjieff after reading Colin Wilson's book, "The Occult" in my 20s (this would have been in the early 1980s). Around the same time I first encountered Nicoll's name in EF Schumacher's book, "Guide for the Perplexed". Subsequent to this I started reading Ouspensky and the first volume of Nicoll's, "Psychological Commentaries". This latter was interesting because it was a methodical survey. I then contacted a Gurdjieff group, because I was interested in joining. I will never forget speaking to the young lady and being creeped out. I suppose she was "self-remembering" throughout the conversation, but paradoxically, I felt like I was talking to a robot. That was the end of that. I know that I am generalizing but over the years my impression of many of its followers is that they come from the strain of New Agers who want to slavishly believe in something. I will admit that the notion that "man is a machine, and that he is not awake" is compelling and contains no small amount of truth. My problem with it all is that it places too much emphasis on the "heroic ego". It recognizes that there are "many I's" but it looks at them as pathological and that they must be reeled in under the Self. Nicoll's interpretation of the biblical parables seems stilted and seems to want to interpret them all from the perspective of a Gurdjieffian world view. My take away is to stay away from any system such as this. Yes, take into account that "man is a machine" and that attention is very important as is introducing some form of chaos to break up habitual thinking.
The lesson is being able to know exactly why you never "give it a break" when you speak
And having knowledge of the machine that makes modern science look like blind
Which means knowing exactly what levers to pull to make that Wolf a Shepard
But when you write like that, its clear to those that know, your no Sheep , you may be wearing their clothing though :)
In context to the Human narrative
"little moving radiations of evil"
Gary Lachlan is so likeable and so interesting and has the coolest credentials in the western world
I first encountered Gary Lachman through his book on Jung, I just finished the one on Swedenborg. I think I've seen all the interviews on this channel. His writing and his converational style make these figures in mysticism and esoterica very accessible to someone like me, who -- other than the two I just mentioned and another of his subjects, Colin Wilson -- I have known nothing or very little about. Thank you.
Cheers! I've been happily waiting for this book and interview. Gary Lachman is the best researcher to shine a light on Nicoll, whose Psychological Commentaries enabled me to grasp the Fourth Way teaching.
The two most important words I've ever read; "remember yourself" - IN SEARCH OF THE MIRACULOUS , Ouspensky
Gurjieff instructs Ouspensky to do this exercise, Ouspensky finds it takes years to do it without constantly forgetting (as it did me!)
Its great I know, "I remembered my whole childhood"
Which according to science is not possible , no one remembers below the age of 7 , its not possible ,
I can remember everything to the age of 3, nothing below that
Now why is that ?
I mean what events did you remember ?
What has happened to you ? during your life that you still carry with you every moment of your existence ?
That thing that means every interaction you have with life, is through the lens of that thing you actually learnt to remember occurring ,
That machine records everything past the age of 7, not before, why is that ?
What did you learn ?
can you remember
In the now there is nothing, there is no SELF
the futures self has not happened so that SELF cant be remembered
the only SELF that you can remember is the past self, the one that experienced the things that made you act the way you act today , can you remember yourself ?
Start by just remembering you walking around yesterday, fight to remember the good stuff
Your in a negotiation with your Thalamus and your Thalamus speaks in wishes
You are correct . . . . This is all new to me, In my 67th year! Thank you for this talk. ❤
Fascinating! Always love Gary Lachman interviews. Thanks for what you do and for posting this!
Superb! Thank you very much. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Such a learning experience as well. Good luck and best wishes. 🎉
Nicoll is awesome. Living Time is an amazing book
Just read the introduction on Amazon. Thx4 the recommendation.
this looks like it will be an important and illuminating book on a somewhat overlooked figure, thanks Gary for your hard work!
8:43 Interesting. I was in the Work in Los Angeles under Norma F. in the early 80s. I must have met Lachman at that time, not knowing who he was . . .
How odd. I didn't know who I was at the time either...
@@GaryLachman Mr. Lachman: It may be of interest to you, that I subsequently learned the source of Gurdjieff's teaching about the "positive emotions of the HEC", which for some reason he did not transmit to his students. Both Orage and Ouspensky complained about that. It's the "lataif" of Sufism -- Wikipedia has a good article about it . . .
Fantastic as ever thank you.
Gary and Jeffrey the coolest guys in the world…
Enjoyed this immensely. Thank you ❤
Monty Python is gods own humor, therefore I purchased a Nicoll book 😂❤ if the court-jester of the universe John Cleese reads it that’s all I need to know.
I loved this talk, it was so very human. I’m not used to understanding in this way. But I’m warming up to it. It has its charms. If you want weird, I’m your man and woman. ❤
Fascinating insights, thanks for this!
Gary relates these histories with commendable fidelity and discrimination, in my opinion. One small detail about the car crash -- some days earlier, a student at the Prieure was asked by G to take the Citroën to town for a safety inspection, and to pay particular attention to the steering components. So, like other notable people in the Work, he may well have had a premonition about it.
As for anyone who has faced these questions honestly, the potential for progress is at the same time evident and yet dismayingly elusive. Or rather, progress is not something to be kept or relied on, but improved. The potency for that seems to be what sets G apart from most of his followers. But readers of Beelzebub's Tales will find there plenty of material for practice.
wow. 1915 Saint Petersburg … with a 1917 departure. that’s the same timeline as Mathilde Kschessinska 😳💘 i am suddenly much more interested in hearing more about The Fourth Way, and in reading this book. i am not all that far into the interview yet, but so far it is Top-Shelf. thanks for another great interview, Jeffrey + Gary. 💙💚
interesting that i made this comment in light of the Eternal Remembrance. 🧐
that Observatory sounds really cool 🥹✨🪐✨ and it sounds more like a toy for Guirdeff, not the cornerstone for an Institution. i too vote yes on the observatory and no on the church building! i wish he had built it so i could visit it…
What an informative dialogue as usual. Thank you both so much.
Gary is amazing and I became a fan when I saw and bought his lecture about Jung in Amazon Prime video and listen to it a lot plus the imagery is great.
Man of Many Talents...
I got" Beldzebubs t h g ...." It's so hard to go through. Thanks for this great insightful talk
Its a great laugh, huge twist in the tail though
he does good work, thanks for posting this
Description of the Groups after Gurdjiegf dyed, is somehow vague. But the way they functioned may be another aspect, to be considered apart.
The meaning of words is not transmitted through genes or blood, but is constructed through speech.
yayy!
I think maybe system did not work without the movements and Beelzebub.
Must see "meetings with remarkable men"
The movements live. Thank you
The work was left to madam. Ahh yes
Is anyone familiar with "The Teachers of Gurdjieff" by Rafael Lefort, published by Victor Gollancz Ltd., London 1968, 157 pages ?
It's considered apocryphal and really written by Idries Shah.
@@GaryLachman apocryphal=Of questionable authorship or authenticity. Erroneous; fictitious.
So you are saying the book is fiction, not true. Any proof that is written by Idries Shah?
The book basically says that Gurjieff was trained by the Sufis as an experiment to bring it to the West, and the Gurdjieff's teaching has no successors. Those claiming to represent Gurdjieff's teaching are not in the real lineage. Best to look elsewhere, is my understanding.
@@soulrongang en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Teachers_of_Gurdjieff
That's an odd definition of apocryphal.
@@dananorth895 from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik
bravo
Can anyone confirm here that Gurdjieff once spent time incarcerated on Rikers Island? And if this is the case, have any of his students subsequently attempted to gain access to records of his time there?
He was known to obscure details of his life; breadcrumbs to nowhere
I hear you. I only asked because I recall reading about this peculiar titbit back in the 90s (possibly in James Webb's Harmonious Circle) and it has subsequently stuck in my mind. I mean, imagine being the cellmate who ended up sharing a bunk bed with Gurdjieff.
“Multiple experiments with spirit contact transmitted the name Matthew Edward Hall on several occasions. I predict this to be a very important future individual in humanities development. Possibly the second embodiment of Christ on Earth.”
G.I. Gurdjieff
Gentlemen, are either of you familiar with this quote from G ?
My Man Godfrey
do you thhink that the entity micheal finished gurdieffs system using the chelsea quinn yarbros groups
Do you?
@@NewThinkingAllowed i am not sure, i suspect this may have happened.
Blondie punk ? Nah....
there are reports that a contemporary of Gary .. Tina, the bassist for the Talking Heads, would pluck until her thumb bled
Wow, was very much into this until time stamp 14:30ish when guest so arrogantly assumes writers from any lineage posses polite political comforts so as to speak freely. Shameful
lol, wut?