Mammonis, Italian Mama's boys, and the Declining Italian Birth Rates
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2024
- The phenomena of "Mammonis" in Italy, referring to Italian Mama's boys, and the declining birth rates in the country have been significant topics of discussion and concern in recent years.
"Mammonis" are adult men, often in their late 20s or older, who remain highly dependent on their mothers for various aspects of their lives, including financial support, decision-making, and even day-to-day tasks. This cultural trend is rooted in the strong family ties and the central role of mothers in Italian society.
Simultaneously, Italy has been facing a decline in birth rates for several decades. Factors contributing to this trend include changing social norms, economic challenges, high youth unemployment rates, limited support for working parents, and the high cost of raising children. These factors have led to fewer young adults feeling financially stable enough to start families and have children.
The combination of these two phenomena, Mammonis and declining birth rates, has raised concerns about the future demographic and economic landscape of Italy. Policymakers and social commentators are exploring ways to address these issues, such as promoting work-life balance, providing support for young families, and encouraging a more equitable distribution of household responsibilities.
Addressing these challenges will be crucial for Italy to sustain its population growth, support its aging population, and ensure the well-being of future generations in the country.
#Italy #italian #decliningbirthrate #birthrate #mammoni #Mammonis #ItalianMamasBoys #ItalianCulture #FamilyTies #DecliningBirthRate #ItalyDemographics #Parenting #FamilySupport #SocialChallenges #EconomicTrends #WorkLifeBalance #PopulationIssues #FutureGenerations
I don’t think this is cute at all. This is how the patriarchy survives. The moms are basicly saying, I was a slave for the men in my life, so so should you.
It's mamas fault for keeping her sons infantile. Living at home is okay but he should be paying rent and helping out. You can bet that daughters are kicked out at a young age.
True
Seems like she was just caring for her family, not making a statement that all women should do this. If she doesn't mind it why should we?
They fail to mention how the daughters (especially the eldest daughter) is NOT treated like this, she’s expected to help her mother around the house, including having to clean up after her brothers. It’s always phrased as “family love” but it’s not the whole family doing all that work, it’s just the women and girls.
SO this is global then ... This is expected in latino culture, in asían culture, in african culture, in indian culture .... SO is not only a thing in usa or Germany ? Cuz i don't SEE white women saying is the norm...that moms raise their daughers but love their sons (aka want girls to help at Home but brothers don't do sh1t)
@@AyAReI00Abrahamic religions and other misogynistic religions spread this nonsense everywhere.
correct! "family love" but only for the males! the women and girls are treated like work mules 😠
Ughhh 🤮 Sounds like our Hispanic households…. The boys are the princesses of the house & the girls are basically unpaid maids.
I'm Latina and that's not how things are in my family. I think that's more traditional in any patriarchal society, but as women gain more rights and power, it tends to lesson. The Latina women I know don't put up with this in any way, but we aren't abuelas yet lol
Paradiso for the son, purgatory for the mother.
Future wife would work the first shift outside the home, then the second for her husband and children, the third for her parents and the fourth for her in laws. I guess that is why the say "uh uh get someone else"
‼️🎯💯
Facts
Hell for the wife!
She becomes the lowest rung on the ladder
@@aazhie true, because purgatory is a safety net for those given a second chance to get to heaven.
There's no problem with living at home, if you PULL YOUR OWN WEIGHT. Pay rent, clean up after yourself, do things for your parents.
🤬The sons won't be taking care of their aging mothers, the daughters or daughter-in-laws will be expected to do that. I get so mad at these situations, even though I am not personally affected. I want all my 'sisters' to have a good life whatever they choose to do with it.
Me too!
Everyone wants a son, but everyone NEEDS a daughter.
Bruh, the grown ass man says it is paradise because he does not do anything to help. Why would he change when he is served like a king? He is a king baby 🤢
😂
3:29 The lies. They don’t send these women to nursing homes because who will clean after them while gma is in the home actually relaxing during her last days? Who’s going to be the “backbone” and carry all of the stress of the family? No. She has to cater to everyone and neglect herself to her last breath. But I like the way they tried to spin it as “love and care” for these women. Real smooth.
Ya that was ridiculous omg! "we take care of them" after we just saw a 77 year old woman picking up a 40 year olds dirty drawers off the floor.
"Can't teach new tricks to old dog". It was hard for me when at 17 grandma passed away and I had to learn to cook and some other things because nobody ever taught me that, I almost burned house down few times. Now imagine old man who had mommy doing EVERYTHING for him for half century, I don't believe he will suddenly grow up and start to do what he never did, at best he will quickly marry someone to throw this responsibility on her but more likely he will leave it to his female siblings or throw old mom in nursing home unless he finish her off by overworking her to grave before she becomes unable to serve him. My sisters ex husband is like this, my sister would be doing it all to this day if he didn't cheat and mistreat her teaming with his mother against her. After 2 failed marriages and countless relationships he is now in early 40s and nobody volunteers to be his wife number 3 so mom will be filling that spot until her last days when he will most likely end on streets because despite having major in law even having job is too hard for him unless he needs to lure woman in marriage. Be careful, too many defective men out there.
Now I fully understand divorces by 70 and 80 year olds now..
I'm italian and i can assure this is true: males here don't help in the house and leave all the responsabilities to the mother. I hear some horror stories from my collegues at work, where the father don't watch "their" kids and end up getting hurt. The of course they cry about divorce and how much dads don't have rights... it's not like Italy hates dads, it's fathers who hates being fathers. I tell you, families are NOT united in Italy: a union is when 2 or more people work TOGHETHER, share their duties and support each other, family in Italy is not like that. Moms do everything, inculding working outised the home, while men come home from work and rest on the couch. This is not support, it's slavery. Support goes both side. I would feel ashamed of myself, if i would let my stuff on the floor to my mom to pick it up, it's disgusting how men don't have any shame and parents are okay with that. And these men should be our "leaders" XD. Women are tired and women my age (i'm 26) refuse to have kids or even live with a man. Times are changing and i'm proud of that.
My 11 year old nephew is already like this. He is self-sufficient, able-bodied and super smart but when his mom is around, he acts like his hands and brain don’t work.
I believe if it doesn’t start in their formative years and get reinforced almost constantly, this type of behavior from them will continue for generations to come.
@@briana14333scary
Also Italian here. I will add that “family” is not the family you make with your spouse, it’s the family you come from. So intestacy laws don’t assume your property goes to the spouse - it goes to your kids or your family of origin if you don’t have kids. I have friends who don’t work because they have young kids and their parents send money to help them. My suggestion - for both Italians and Italian-Americans: look to see if the Mom in the family worked when the kids were little. If she did, there is a half hope. If she did not, the expectations will be set that Mom will do 100% of the invisible labor.
I grew up and currently live in Italy too. I see many people over the age of 25 yo living with their families, and that is purely for economic reasons. The pay is so low in certain areas that it does not allow one to be financially independent. I live in Milan where there are millionaires but also people who work “in Nero” and they get paid as little as 6 euros an hour. That is totally insufficient to live currently.
@@khadyadjisall5708 There is nothing wrong with living with parents/family for economic (or emotional) reasons. The issue is allowing/expecting your parents (mother specifically) to treat you like a little child while living in the home-- cooking, cleaning, laundry, pampering.
They take care of their elders for the rest of their lives? 😐 Momma is already damn near 80. She has little life left after they work her like a horse.
If these baby men aren't marriedmwho will take care of them when mom can't?😊
And the daughters are next in line to be drained like momma
Bless the heart of the mother with only sons. she will be a servant til she dies.
Sadly, that sometimes includes while she is dying from a diagnosed terminal illness!
Here, (Italy) even when there are only sons, you usually don't put your parents in a home until the very end, it's not like America at all, hence why my American parents want to retire here. In America however, we Stick our elderly in homes ASAP.
I saw a post recently on Twitter. This Nigerian man posted a photo of himself cooking, the caption was (paraphrasing) "I'm cooking for my father and my brothers because my mother didn't not have a daughter to take over her duties before she died."
@@joylastname3035... omg!! That is such a disgusting caption and also... a failure to both parents not make their children self suficient
@@joylastname3035wow!!!
As the mother of two little boys, I'd be damned to stunt my own kids growth and evolution by continuing to baby a grown man. No ma'am, no ham, no spam. Out the door with you.
Right? Both my son and my daughter are on the autism spectrum. They are both high functioning but may never be 100% independent. That's why I have my son in Independent Living programs to help teach him things that are harder for me to help with. He might never be independent but he can eventually live in a group home with helpers and have a job.
He's worked before but wasn't fully ready. He's already graduated college and my daughter is in her last year and I will help her get into those programs too.
They simply need a bit more help getting their own lives started but as individual human beings, they need and deserve their own lives.
I'm happy to be the "Hands on" mom a bit longer and they actually still need me that much, but we've still got goals to accomplish.
I wish good luck, blessings and amazing futures for both you and your children. 😊
Or if he lives at home he takes care of himself and helps his elderly mother out
@Deandadee At least teach you're boys to be independent so they don't sleep on the streets at 18. You dont have to do their laundry or feed them. They can feed themselves and clean for themselves
@ms.pirate I feel like I need to be clear, I wouldn't let my kids be homeless and in a bind. But, that's why I am teaching them to be an adult now and making sure they know it's unacceptable expect me to care for them as children when they are adults. They need to learn independence. There will be no such thing as adult mama's boys in my home. I don't hover, I'm doing my job now so they can do it themselves later.
This is emotional MENCEST! Weird in any culture.
😂 mencest, you're a genius
It’s actually sad seeing a woman at 77 doing all this labour for her son. She’s so bought into the patriarchy and her husband sitting right there beside her nodding and smiling. It’s the men who need to say something, both the fathers and the sons.
I’m 25yrs younger than her and the thought of doing all that still at her age for a grown ass man? Nah. She never gets a chance to do her hobbies, the things she enjoys, friends to socialize with and the things she wants to put energy into. Who ever does anything kind and nurturing for her? Who makes her meals and her fav foods? Cleans for her, does the laundry etc? Sad sad sad. I would rather just do my own clean up and cooking single.
Thank you to all the feminists years ago, this Canadian woman is so very grateful
I live in a similar culture. It’s true that these moms don’t care as hard for their adult daughters. But sometimes they do but the adult daughters don’t take advantage and are often worried more about the health of their nurturing parent. Men will suck their mom dry and not even show up to the hospital when their mom is sick.
That's sad. My mom made me move home temporarily when I broke a foot, and I cared for her when she was post-surgical. The mom/daughter relationship has its challenging moments, but what relationship doesn't? It's one of the few I've ever had where we do for each other out of love, not expectation.
Yep. I believe it.
i agree at least in my case. My mom never forced me to do stuff around the house or anything like that, but i do it myself, because i want to do it. I would feel ashamed if i would let my mother do everything for me. These men and their parents should feel ashamed
Like my friend's older brother. He was their father's golden child, but he wasn't there to clean up his poop and bathe him when he fell sick. It was the 2 daughters that he treated like trash that returned home to care for him. He always had an excuse to be elsewhere (no, he didn't have a job, nor was he married). When their dad took his last breath with his 2 daughters holding him, my friend was looking for her brother to come home. He left everything to his son after all that. Paid his daughters dust.
@@joylastname3035unbelievable!! That’s terrible
This explains my college roommate. She came from Florence, and the first thing she did when she arrived in Canada was announce that she would go back to Italy in a coffin or not all. She refused to date and has never gotten married. She owns a lovely home, bought and paid for with her own business, and has never gone back to Europe.
Good for her!
* In my Jodeci voice * It’s like a dreeeaam
There was JUST a New York Times story about a researcher who studies longevity and diet. He found that there were communities in the mediterranean where people live long and relatively healthful lives. An American commenter said he lived in one of the villages - can't recall if it was Greece or Italy, but he said you would see adult DAUGHTERS caring for the very elderly parents. He said it wasn't uncommon to see adult DAUGHTERS in public, "lovingly" feeding their very old parents.
It doesn't seem to me that this intense service is reciprocated by the men. It appears to be the work of women.
I think that sometimes daughters want to spend time knowing that their parents won’t be alive forever and somehow give them “pay back” for all they’ve done. I don’t think sons even think like that, just how every situation or interaction will benefit them.
@@briana14333My parents are in their 80s, and I know that I and my sister are worried about them being able to do everything on their own.
I certainly think there are a lot of adult children in general who want to be there for their parents. I will say this in my own limited. Experience: the other women, my age and a little bit older who are caring for elderly parent and also have brothers? They all talk about how little they can rely on their brothers to give them any kind of respite. But I think you're right. A lot of adult daughters want to support and care for their parents. I know that's my preference.
Wait, wait... So, the mother takes care of the adult son so she doesn't end up in a retirement home.. but what happens when she can't clean up after the son anymore? Do they just let her rot in her own filth till she dies? OR is that what the wife is for?
Usually she dies from stress or exhaustion before being that old or ends up there anyway.
He puts her in a nursing home😒😑
Yes. The women usually end up caring for the monarch and the men may or may not foot the bill, if they can afford a care taker. The sons never actually take care of the mother. They push it off on their wives or some other woman.
Maybe he finally marries so that his wife can care for his mother?
Yes, the wife is supposed to take care of his parents and her parents when they are old as well as the husband child. And children if they have them. So, in total at least 2. elderly + family = at least 6. people on your back. Or 8. people if the both parents are alive. Marriage is beautiful. It is pure love. Being single sucks😂
It's not cohabitation with family that's the problem. It's a problem when servitude from women is expected in these dynamics. America is not an individualistic society. Many of us are simply beginning to embrace self preservation over being ran into the ground by toxic people.
I agree with the issue not being the cohabitation, but disagree that America is not an individualistic society. It is. You are allowed to not think of others and to prioritize yourself. Just go to a playground in Italy and stand there: you’ll get yelled at if a kid (who is not your kid) does anything dangerous and you don’t intervene so they don’t hurt themselves. While some parents may intervene if they see something unsafe, they would not get yelled at if they don’t in the US.
@ms-corleone it's not. Individualism exists in every society to some degree because it's a personal choice, not a societal trait.
@@childfreechick2980America is extremely individualistic society and everyone says this all the time, sociologists and other research experts have wrote about this, like it’s not even a debate. You cannot say anything to cautiously warn anyone about their child that is not their own child. That is the very definition of individualism. 💯💯🎯🤷🏾♀️
@@childfreechick2980the US is the primary exemple of hyper individualism, which has both positive and negative implications.
It's not about families sticking together it's forcing all this labor onto the women in the family. If it's truly family taking care of family as they say then the kids can help clean and cook etc.
Exactly. I wonder if the interviewer asked how Italian men contribute to this dynamic.
They do: the daughters do.
Families eveywhere stick together for the women work .... Hollydays are prepare by women, if the women don't Cook or decorate then there is no Xmas or new year ... And son or men only go cuz they don't Even have to give money and relax .... If men were asked money to contribute them suddendly other plans sounds better ....why would i pay to eat for Xmas dinner at Home ? (Those are the words of men who were interview )
It is true that different cultures have children stay in the house until they get married. But it seems that these adult men are not contributing to maintaining the household and instead leave it to the women (mom, sister, auntie, grandma,etc.) to do it. Burbie is right we women don’t want to be servants!
I knew brothers who were in their 30s (back in the 80s). They lived in their mother’s apartment in Queens. The mother had to leave them for a week (to care for her sister). She made and froze individual meals (3 for each man, per day) before she left. They ate them all and got into fist fight about who ate too many. They were Italian Americans. We lived in NYC. You could walk out your door and buy excellent food from hundreds of restaurants within 10 minute walk.🙄
I wish these things didn't happen anymore, but my Russian mother in law did the same for her husband and the youngest son, who was 20, when she came to stay with us when my son was born. She also has a part time job, mind you, and her husband is retired.
We live in Austria, and I want to say that feminism has totally changed this dynamic, I see it in our, millennial, generation, but there are plenty of women I see online complaining about men not doing housework and childcare.
I don't know why I found this funny that they got into a fight over food. Im also from NYC and I know how easy it is to get good food.😅 My mom didn't even do this when we were teens. My dad cooked and cared for us the few times my mom went to visit her sister when we were underage. As adults, we would have been on our own because we were taught how to take of ourselves. I feel sorry for any woman who got entangled with those brothers. They sound like they would have been a nightmare! 😢
What happened when their mother died? Did they hastily get married to some women they barely dated before proposing?
The mother-in-law doesn't find happiness in her marriage, so she attaches herself to the son and being a mother is her only happiness. That's why they can't let go.
You were right the first time, they are definitely princesses.
😂😂😂
Right. Being a multigenerational home is not the issue. It’s treating your adult child like a baby, and being expected to be a forever work horse.
Was married to an Italian and can confirm these reports.
When I initially wanted to separate from my husband in 2006, I was told I needed to seek therapy or mediation first. Then therapist (Italian woman in her 50s at the time) told me I had to be "nicer" to my husband.
Then, verbally abused in front of my children for the 2nd time in 2008 and that was it!! Left the mf.
In my defence, I never knew that Italians were mammoni, otherwise I would have never.
Both my (grown) children are aware of what their father is like. They've seen it with their own eyes.
Glad that we're making women aware of this. It's not just in Italy, true. But Italy is considered a "developed" country. This is why this phenomenon feels even more backwards.
10:01 because why have children with men who have an inappropriate relationship with their mothers? Let the mothers have their children.🤷🏽♀️
I agree
Exactly. It’s a competition that the wife/gf/child’s mother will never win.
"Boy moms" at it again 🙄
I have two adult sons, and I feel the same. If mothers of sons don't want to let go, may as well take it next level and birth your own grandkids 😵💫! The relationship is already creepy!
He'll never be a good "man" for anyone being a forever boy.
I made the mistake of having the son of a boy mom as my first boyfriend. Let me tell you… never again. 😂 Never ever ever. She really tried to make my life hell but I was so good to her son she ended up loving me and being a lot nicer. Still though. That relationship included weirdness I will never deal with again. Ask me about the time I caught them spooning. Guy was like 30 years old. 🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
Even if this is 'normal' in some countries, it bothers me. These are adult men who are being waited on hand and foot by their elderly mothers. If they get married, their wives will not only have to compete with their mothers for their attention, but they'll expect them to be their servants like their mothers were. They're not doing this for their daughters, the female family members are also forced to wait on the males. When does the Italian mom get a break? She's slaving away for grown kids into their old age. I see why ladies in Italy are opting out, I wouldn't want a man like this for a husband.
The case last year where the Italian mother sued her 40 year old sons for eviction and won lives in my head rent free.
All those Italian mommies in the comments remind me of my ex’s mom who was Mexican. They have a similar issue of infantilizing and spoiling adult men. It’s all very codependent and unhealthy in many ways. I have a lot of Mexican friends and the unhealthy way they are guilted into being beholden to their families and putting up with mistreatment, especially from male relatives, is very concerning.
I see it in my own culture as well, east Asians have a huge problem with spoiling the sons; especially the youngest sons. My dad was the youngest son and my mom said he was utterly useless at first when it came to domestic tasks cause he had mommy to wait on him his whole life. We need to stop babying grown men, period. It’s not about family, you can show love for family without this creepy infantilizing of adults and extreme codependency.
I dated an Italian man, and yes, they live with their parents until they get married. My boyfriend was very self sufficient, building his career, and cooked, and cleaned just as well as me.
I dated an Italian man as well. He cooked well and he also cleaned. He was also very considered and kind. If I told him I liked chocolate ice cream, the next time I saw him he would have chocolate ice cream. The reason it didn't work out is because he was a little too old for me. But Joe was/is amazing.
@@Play4keeksI had a French bf when I studied abroad. He had his own, clean place, and a job, and he was a sweetie. Super fun, planned little outings, and liked to bring me currants which I adore & we can't get in the states. He wanted kids and I didn't 😢
Nobody said all Italian men are mama's boys, I'm sure many people have stories like you.
There not I was engaged to an Italian guy in my 20s but he passed away from a heart attack there good chefs but sometimes they put too much cheese on their pizzas. Sometimes I wonder if he staged his death because my family never had a chance to go to his funeral they shipped him up to Tennessee to have the funeral closer to his mom they can be very loving but shady and secretive at the same time. They definitely believe women are the head of the households and I was Irish that's why my family thought it would have been a good match but sadly it never worked out.
You definitely got the rare example. His Mom might of not coddled him like the norm.
The dust is global. Never any word on what happens when something happens to the mother. What happens to these a male sons? I wonder how these king baby sons are doing now? None of this would be done for adult daughters though. Any wives these type of men have will never measure up to the mothers of these sons. I refuse to deal with these type of dudes. I’m not competing with their mothers either! They treat their sons like an additional husband it’s not healthy. Regardless of culture this needs to stop! No more free labor by women married or not for these menz.
Exactly!
The father or the son will just go out and marry some other naive, unsuspecting woman and she'll take over the role.
This isn’t a hard concept to understand. That is an excuse. Because, the notion falls apart when daughters aren’t given the same treatment, the mother’s interfere with their son’s marriages, daughters are expected to also clean up after their brothers, and mom is treated like a workhorse. There is no excuse for this caring on at the expense of other family members.
I remember when an italian son sued his mother because she didn't want him at home anymore, and won.
👀👀 that's crazy
This is absolutely some of the worst cases of mammying that I've ever heard. Ain't no way in hell!! These women have unhealthy relationships with their infantile sons and lack boundaries. 😮😮🤯🤯🚩🚩🚩🚩
For REAL.
I'm ok with my kids living with me, but they gotta contribute. My 19 year old has been fairly self sufficient since about 12. The only person I cater to is my 16 year old because she's disabled and requires 24/7 care.
I hear you on that one too. I have a disabled son that does require 24/7 care. He is learning how to do things for himself but with him being nonverbal and autistic it's pretty difficult. Sadly many people knew my family don't seem to understand why. He doesn't like to be around many people. He gets anxious around crowds and he won't act "properly". Family reunions are a no-go because I'm tired of the snickering behind my back and the talk that they do around me. Thinking that you can beat mental /disability out of a child is just appalling. So I removed my child and myself from that.
My ex was Macedonian and he was like this. His mum did EVERYTHING for him at 29 including making him lunch for work and laundry. He didn’t know how to work a kettle, make a bed or cook ANYTHING. He was supposed to come to mine for the weekend of new years before we broke up and the morning after he got to my parents place he said he had to go home because his mum wanted to spend new years with him even though we had planned that weekend months in advance l. I’m so glad I got out of that relationship because I could see how she viewed him as “her man”
I'm married to an Italian man and currently live in Italy. This is so true. I was one of the lucky ones. My husband went to college on the other side of the country and so he had no choice but to get his own apartment and cook and clean for himself. After he graduated, he got a job in the same city as his alma matar and so he purchased his own place nearby. By the time I met him, he had been living on his own for 20 years (including his time getting his bachelor's, master's, and doing an internship).
Edit to add that there is a nursing hom near me and it is full. So some Italians DO put their parents in homes.
There was a case recentlh where an italian mom had to sue to get her 2 sons out of her house. They were old af.
😂😂😂
MOMMA: GET OUT, NOW!!!
SONS: But momma, who will feed us? Who will make our beds? Who will squeeze our orange juice at 5 am? 😢😢😢😢
Finally a woman with her senses
I remember that!!!!
That’s why I clicked on this one so fast! I remembered reading about that article
I read the article too. It was last year. 😅
I cannot fathom living with anyone and expecting them to do all of the housework, cooking, etc. How do you not feel like a turd taking advantage like that?
You would think!
This is my sire with my mom and believe me, he doesn’t care unless he is inconvenienced by something she DOESN’T do; he feels entitled to her labor. (Boomer/silent generation)
Something i learn the wrong way is that men don't feel shame, are very selfish and all their relationships are transactional... If they do You a favor they always what something in return
When you're raised in that environment you think it's normal. That's why it's so hard to fight patriarchy even when it also harms men.
Probably they give grocery money to their mothers, maybe small gifts from time to time, and think that it will cover all the hard work.
There is nothing wrong with living with your parents into adulthood. There is SO MUCH wrong with treating adults like children. Adult children at home have to contribute to the household by doing chores and/or financially.
My cousin in law lives in Italy. This woman has a degree, speaks at least 3 languages, and IRONS SHEETS. She cooks, shops, posts intellectually stimulating stuff on Facebook. Inflation has recently made her life difficult. I hope she's doing okay.
You know what? This reminds me of the scene in Money Talks when the rich Italian dude asked Chris Tucker what he wanted for breakfast. Rich Italian Dude rings a bell to call over the chef: an elderly Italian woman. After he finishes ordering and she walks away he says “thanks, Ma” and informs Chris Tucker afterwards that that’s his mother. This makes sense now.
Whats the Haitian version called?! My bf in college lived with his mom and she cleaned his room and his brother (who is like 10 years older than us) and didn’t live there would leave his laundry for him to do. I meeeean why don’t you want your son to grow up and do these normal adult things on his own?! Just… weird and gross 😒
I hear you. something about this triggers me too. I guess I feel like these women are taken advantage of. Especially when they look worn down. However, as someone who is married to a Haitian, I learned that it is common for some men to remain in the childhood home if they are not married, and the mom still serves a lot. It's the culture. Things are changing though. Women are more independent, and some are opting out of marriage or divorcing if it's not what they expected. I think we don't realize that most societies still view women as being primarily sacrificial caretakers and men in their lives assume these women are happy being like this. And unfortunately, some men don't recognize their mom as an individual. Be blessed
One other important point I wanted to add Is that MOST not ALL but MOST multigenerational homes here are not like One big house. They are duplexes, triplexes and quadriplexes. Each branch of the family Is in the same building but everyone has their own kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, living room, seperate front Doors ect. You might have a common yard, farm, garden, or patio, but it's more like being in a duplex.
Of course Italian women don’t get this treatment. They’re somewhere being mothers to their husbands.
I live at home, but it will be a cold day in Heck when my mom cleans my room, takes care of my dog, does my laundry, or cooks. But I am a woman and am American. I buy my own groceries and sometimes run errands for my parents (like getting milk or dropping off packages at the post office). My dad cooks the best and he takes care of the cats and patch up the cars. We call clean up after ourselves and keep ourselves clean.
Exactly! Due to health issues, I live with my mom and she only does a few things around the house, like putting her own laundry away. I do everything else. My son moved in with us two years ago. He's on the autism spectrum and has Independent Living classes during the day. He cleans up after himself and does a lot of the "heavy lifting" around here; like bringing the trash cans to the curb and back, assembling things like patio furniture, literally carries my mom's hamper for her and any other household projects.
I moved back home to care for my mom and stepdad. They both have cancer so I'm here. They don't have to clean up after me. I cook and clean for them. My mom loves to make tea for me. That's all I allow her to do. I take care of all chores.
My Italian husband not only Is not like this but can Cook and clean like a champ. Everyone in my husband's family Is an Amazing Cook, male and female. He is not and only child though. Also, multigenerational living Is very common here, and one or all of the children inherit the family home or a part of It. You only send nonna or nonno to a nursing home at the VERY END OF LIFE. In my family, the baby sister Is actually the Little princess, especially now that She Is pregnant, mind you She Is 39, lol. Little prince treatment as depicted in this slightly outdated video Is much more common in the Deep South. I get along super well with my mother-in-law and I don't think he actually calls her enough. Italy Is not a monolith Just like nowhere Is. My American mother Is actually jealous of how close knit families are here. The main driver of the low birthrate here Is the dramatic shift in Age of First child. My sister in Law Is having her First kid at 40, her partner 44. A generation ago, the First kid was had at 19 or 20. Also, families used to be huge here and now people only want 1-3, not 4-6. These are Just my observations as and American Who has been here 5 years. I would still rather be here than America every damn day.
I have severe stories from my own family members. It's not cute but unfortunately common. Even more funny how my mother pointed it out, rolling her eyes at her husband's brother still living at home (he was a surprise baby and the youngest) and never moving out until the parents died, and her best friends husband being a mommys boy and immediately brushing off his own daughter when the son was born (Italian) BUT my brother literally stayed living at home until his 30ies and she let him drink and smoke his behind off, the whole house stank. You would open the door to the upstairs floor and the smoke fog looked like the fog from the silent Hill movie. She was full blown enabling him herself.
The same time, I was only tolerated to come home to live there temporarily when I got out of my first abusive relationship.
Yep.
I have a 9 year old son.
When i took him to see the new Super Mario movie, and it was revealed that Mario still lived at home with his parents, he asked me "Mama, is Mario a....man (grown up)?
😅😅😅😅
In India we call this man the "raja beta". I know nothing about Italy but would not be surprised to find similar dynamics. Indians traditionally have had marriages that were planned by their parents. This could mean that the parents helped their adult child to choose a partner, or it could mean that a teenager was told to prepare for a wedding and arrived to find out that it was their own wedding to a stranger. This set up many young people for sad marriages. Boy and girl may have had someone in mind that they preferred. The girl then made a surrogate husband of at least one of her sons. After that she will not want to let him go. This was the case in the sitcom Everybody Loves Raymond.
🎯🎯🎯🎯
Damn, that's a good analysis 👍
On CBS sunday morning 9 years ago, they did a report on the declining birth rate in Italy! Most people gave the reason for only wanting one child was income! One woman that they profiled said she saved up for years so she could have her son via artificial insemination! Italy also doesn't have standard kindergarten or daycare! School age starts at 6 years old! That report is here on TH-cam!
Oh wow! I didn’t know this! So a new mom would have to employ a full-time nanny for at least 6 years if she works 😧
@briana14333 Well, they have free pre-school, but it only takes care of 13% of the children who need it! Everyone else pays out of pocket! Nursery school is three months to three years! Preschool is 3 years to 6 years! So basically, yes, you have to have a nanny, a grandma, or a babysitter! They also end their school day at 1:30 pm and school is also on Saturdays!
@@cindychristian1700 oh wow! Sad
I remember this from the original broadcast. My background is not Italian, plus we grew up with corporate moves around the country, so overwhelmingly just the nuclear family for good or ill. At a new job in the nineties, I was surprised that an older coworker (M 60s) had dinner every Sunday at his Italian mom's; attendance was mandatory.
My only child is pretty severe autistic. Anyone can see he is autistic the moment that they look at him. Hes 15 now. I have been having to try and prepare myself and come to accept the fact that he may never have a job, drive, or have a relationship. I have seen this as a sad thing thats bee a source of guilt and depression for me worrying about what kind of life he will have. I know I may have to be supporting him indefinitely and I consider that my job because I brought him into the world and hes not fully capable.
Then you have these Italian women just hoping their sons turn out with a life like what Ive feared my son will.
Oh wow my son is autistic too. He's 10 and I have to make sure he gets care indefinitely. I feel guilty most times. He's an amazing kid and learning to do things. I want to make sure we reside in a place where he can thrive.
Their girlfriends have not chance. I live in Italy and this is exactly how it is. One of my ex was like this and his sister was out of the house.
My ex is 42. When he lives in Italy, despite owning his own apartment in Rome, he spends on average two nights a week at his parent’s house and drives 1 hr 45 minutes to get there. I thought it was really cute for a guy to have a twin sister, but not if he’s Italian. There are a lot of cultures where it’s far more likely that the women in the family are going to fight you for their boy. They all discriminated against Americans, so I was screwed. If you’re American, I strongly suggest you never date a man who has talked smack about America all their lives with their friends and family. You will be made the ‘black object’ when things eventually turn.
Like do women ever get a break????? I started assisting my mom with doing chores at 5 and also taking care of my younger brothers. No wonder why i don't want kids, i am already burnt out.😂😂
I can't imagine infantalizing a 39 yr old man! Universe forbid!!!!!
Word choice is so important! It’s not the family unit or that family is serving family because they’re not. MOM is serving everyone-THAT is individualistic as hell for everyone except her! It’s so slavery-adjacent and it’s horrendous! It’s not that mom has to stop if she wants to do this, but it’s about the OTHER people in the home carrying for her as she cares for them. America is often individualistic but in this context, having the mom do everything g when you’re capable until you siphon the life out of her is the most narcissistic and individualistic you can get.
I think this behavior is so toxic. One of the men is 39 years old, but his mother is still making him fresh orange juice every morning, cleaning his room, washing and ironing his clothes, and cooking him hotel meals!!!😵💫It's giving oedipus /jocasta complex and toxic boy mom 😒And if this 39 year old man is so used to his mother acting like his maid for life, what do you think he will expect from his wife
This happens a lot in Brazil too (or used to happen a lot), with single men. Now, it still happens with single men, but it has extended to include single women as well, ever since women started taking part in the work force, if they work outside the house they don't usually work inside unless they are married. I know my uncle lived with my grandmother until he married his wife in his mid-thirties. He never did any of the housework either, and my aunt is 57 and only started doing housework about some 10 years ago, after my step-grandfather passed away. She then started doing his half of the domestic chores, but she still doesn't cook, and my married aunt started cooking for my grandmother. There's still another aunt that lives in an apartment that's attached to the house of my grandmother, which my grandmother owns, and she doesn't pay rent. She lives there with her son and husband and hates taking care of my grandmother. My uncle, the one that got married in his mid-thirties, also doesn't pay rent for the property my grandmother owns, and where he now runs a very lucrative bakery with his wife. My mother is always complaining that her siblings take advantage of her mother and don't even want to contribute to her medical care. The uncle I was speaking about asked, some months, for my mom to pay for some medical treatment my grandmother received, and he has the money. It's like the Brazilian culture idealizes mothers so much as these sacrificing people, always doing "everything" for their children. My mom wants my grandmother to come live in the US with us, but she won't even move in with her the one daughter that does the most for her, and they live in the same city!
At least if they're with their mamas they're not making a nuisance of themselves in another woman's life, long may they stay right where they are.
Wasn't it a while back a Italian mother of like 70+ kicked her two sons how were in their 50s out because she was so done with them
I get family taking care of each other but I don’t see any unity in this, the mom is doing all the work. Other than the son and/or husband working, how else are they helping? Being in a never ending loop of servitude is not healthy.
This sounds like hell...
I can see this in 1974
Not in 2024…..No Way
As Woman of today we should never tolerate that 1894 -1974 mentality boy bye ✌️
The dust is truly global and governors of the world don't understand why women don't want to put up with this
I remember being 9 and my brother was 13. We were both going to boarding school. I had to sew on my own name tags while my mum did it for my brother😢
Congratulations to italian women!
Sounds like my brother 😅
Both of my brothers were treated well and got to do whatever they wanted
I just realized this dynamic is the norm in families with a narcissistic mother. The daughters are expendable, the son is the golden child.
I will be damned if I would let my mother take care of me in her 70's. My sister and I took care of her like how it is supposed to be. When I was a kid if you were an adult and still living with you parents you were ridiculed and mocked harshly. Because as an adult you should be on your own and providing for yourself.
It's funny how cultures like this like to frame "taking care of the family" as some noble and selfless pursuit, but really these women are trying to secure their own long-term care in old age.
I asked my 16 yo and they said they'd be embarrassed and hate themselves. I would always let them live with me, but they better take care of themselves.
As far as I understand Colombian adults are typically expected to stay home until they marry (from my couple years living there). I think it’s great to live as a big family, if that’s what everyone wants. If it’s toxic or manipulative, I’m all for living ALONE. 💖
The sociologist looks devilish
My MIL is from Michigan, afaik not Italian but she invaded with every kid. God it was hell. She rearranged cabinets, took over the laundry and got us all sick even the newborn. And this went on for over a month THREE TIMES. I never got to have my own experience this B was always invading it was so awful. She works in food service too so it was like my kitchen want my own. Plus she didn’t give a rip about me it was all about my hubby the whole month+ as if he needed any help. I had already had everything planned. And it took months for the house to feel like home again. When we divorce I’m giving my hubby full parental rights and his kids are going to live with his mom LOL thanks for making me feel like a surrogate and ruining my connections B you get the teen years. 👅🤣
These adults that still live with Mom should be doing housework and be doing more than mom.
Nothing wrong with living with your parents a long time if things are symbiotic. My uncle had to move back in with my grandmother a few times in his adult life. But he was never without a job, did some light housework but he took care of most of the home maintenance things; including putting in a new deck and stairs at the kitchen door, repairing the ceiling and roof and lots of other things here and there.
My Italian brother in law was never like this. He cooks cleans and makes it a team effort. My sister has always worked 6 days a week, so he had my niece by himself every Saturday. He sometimes did more at home than my sister. They're house was always spotless.
I watched the whole video, these men have their own houses and are executives or professionals but choose to live with mommy and have her do everything for them
Reddit Quote: It's easier to dump a Momma's boy than it is to divorce one - and both of those are easier than changing a Momma's boy!
That's a big no! Mama's Boys. I rather prefer an orphan than a guy who didn't have his shit together. They're abusing their own mother's by being their maid.
My mom is Sicilian and even she said not to date Italian men. 😂
It’s not just Italy. Go to Miami and see. That was my house growing up. My Mom was in her 80s before she had enough. And yes, my mother would have done it for me if I let her after I got married. While I was single, no, I had to do chores. I walked away and lived on my own as soon as I could. After my kids were born she tried to move in with me to help out. We politely declined. Years later she would try to clean my house when visiting. I’d have to stop her. She took care of my brother even after he married. It eventually led to his marital problems (but just a small part, TBH). Again, she finally had enough in her 80s but she really enabled her own abuse for many years.
Hello i am an Italian. I basically had a different set of parents than my brothers, they treated us so differently. ESP me as the oldest.
Italy and Greece. Avoid those men at all costs. It’s bringing Oedipus complex vibes, intense ones! I choose happiness, not whatever the heck that is.
6:20 In Italy most people are Roman Catholic, it’s the center of Catholicism. These women are raised to be Mary the Madonna. How did Mary the Madonna treat Jesus?! They are supposed to strive to be that type of martyring mother. It’s not an obsession it is codependent programming on the whole mother level.
At 77 years?
I’m loving the thinly-veiled contempt from the interviewer, you can tell how much she disapproves of this. 😂 this kind of thing being applauded as part of Italian culture is so male chauvinistic and disgusting. There is no reason why grown men need to be treated like babies. Everyone in a household who is able to contribute, should contribute. And that includes household chores. These men are in for a rude awakening once mommy dies. I’m sure they’ll be on the hunt for a wife to replace her very soon after she’s gone.
Don't they read the Bible in Italy? Doesn't it say the man is supposed to leave and cleave to his wife? Nona going to mass all the time but not following instructions in book is wild. This clinging to mommy is unnatural.
They're catholic. They read the catechism
I believe most cultures stay with their parents until they get married. Americans encourage individualism at 17/18 which is not a problem but it's good if the young person is equipped for the real world before their parents push them out. Now these men on the other hand know doggone well they should have been left because they're not doing anything
What happened to young people? I'm 73 and we couldn't wait to get out on our own after high school. We shared houses or apartments, had used or makeshift furniture, had beater cars but we had fun. Lots of gatherings, parties, loud music. See ya later Mom and Dad! Edited for typo.
This made my day.
I remember watching this segment 20 years ago! It definitely made a (negative) impression on me then as a 20-something American woman, and even more so now as a 40-something. The only difference now is that I now own my own home, helped my parents buy their own home near me, and see them each week to spend time with them and to also help them with their needs. The "mamoni" thing has nothing to do with being family-oriented. You can be family-oriented and take responsibility for yourself like a functioning adult. My parents are retired, and I want them to enjoy it, not slaving over me.
These enabler mothers created a monster. Good luck to them - they have a burden for the rest of their lives.
It’s sad for years growing up I heard stories of women unaliving their own baby girls in countries all over the world because they said we had an “over population crisis” now all of a sudden they want women to start having more babies. Didn’t china have a limit on the number of children you could have not so long ago?
Italian here. Yes, a lot of adults - males and women alike - live with their parents well into adulthood. HOWEVER I don't think they get coddled as much as this man in the reportage😂 but I think that was a very extreme situation. But for example, my grandma's way of thinking is: "you are female and need to be able to do xyz, your uncle poor baby is only 55 and I need to wash and iron his clothes because he's not able of course. he is a male!"
I'm American but with Italian heritage. My mom and dad and their siblings lived with their parents until their married. I didn't think it was abnormal to live with your parents as adults until they are able to get on their feet. I'm 24 and living with mine and trying to get a job. No I'm not planning to get married, but I do want more freedom to be independent. Its nice knowing that the heritage has always been this way 😊
At least its better than being kicked out to the streets at the age of 18
I'm a Canadian woman with an Italian background (my parents, grandparents, etc were all born and raised in Italy). My brother and I were kicked out on the same day when I was 21 and he was 19 (we're now in our early 30s). We've both been on our own ever since. We've gone no contact with our mom and low contact with our dad. There is NO WAY IN HELL I would ever take care of a grown ass man. I'm single, my brother is on his second marriage, our lives are our own. Neither of us agree with mommy taking care of us. No fkn thank you.
Hold my ravioli, I've been waiting for this!!! I'm Sicilian American and it's very much like this, I'm my family and I'm my network.
I got a sneak peak of this Italian culture from the show ‘Everyone Loves Raymond’.
The way that old dude made it seem like it was “normal” for men to expect their mammas (and by extension their wives) to wait on them hand and foot, and that it’s a place of honor for their mothers to serve them… it’s this kind of sht that keeps patriarchy alive and male entitlement to women’s labor fat and well-fed. FFS.
Oh hell to the naw. She's 77 years old. I also want to know if they doing this for their daughters also and can the daughters stay at home until she's married.