And to think that at a time when Europe,Asia and the Middle East were all influencing each other to build their great civilizations our ancestors were already building great civilizations on their own with no outside influence from the old world...that's amazing
well that's if you consider native americans a single people.Remember that you had already skills before discovering America from Alaska.You descend from peoples that migrated and hence had to be resourceful.
It's not shown in Western history books, but Natives were actually one of the most advanced metallurgist in the ancient world...Love the art and metal work of our ancestors, I can see where today's Native silver smiths of the American Southwest get their crafting skills from, it handed down from our ancestors of the Americas.
Sintering, electroplating, and much more were being used by my ancestors. Everyday a little "shocking" truth comes up. People have the tendency of viewing us as weak, incapable of knowing such things. However, things are surfacing and everyday a dis_believer sees the truth and cannot turn away. Intelligent and strong we are.
Machu Michu was just an example.I have great respect for native american hunting culture, your freedom, your traditions. please nurture that, it is way more precious than the technical crap of western civilization.Don't let your gods and wisdom die, they may lead the way when nothing is left. Regards from a west african born in Europe struggling to know who he was...before colonization.
That's true, most Tribes and Nations were in the copper age hundreds of years ago. LOL, My Navajo People were in the stone age until the 1800's...My Navajo people did sometimes trade for copper during the 1500's, The Navajo imported copper and exported rugs and blankets that had creative geometric designs...We exported furs and imported avocado and pepper seeds from Native Mexicans...We were a Nomadic People that moved into the Southwest around 1300 AD and we learned how to farm from the Pueblo.
I'm working on another video that may replace this one, because I've found alot more metal working skills and more unique artifacts to remake this video better. Plus I made some errors in this video. Do you have any links to a website where I can use pics that show artifacts of the Purhepecha? I think the theme of the video I'm working on will be "The fashioning of precious metal and stones" example: any artifacts made of metals, obsidian, jade turquoise will be displayed on my video.
Hello Thomas Oklahoma, very interesting video, although I do have a question, what is an Irish torc doing here please? At around 12 minutes in there is an image of the Blessington Lunula from County Wicklow, Ireland, which is on display in The British Museum. Moreover, the caption reads that it is a gold copper and tin alloy. It is not, it is gold only.
If the greeks visited the Americas before columbus did, than the Greeks would have brought corn, tomatoes, sintering, sunfloweres, treasures of jade and gold, etc. would have been taken back to Mediterranean, but there are no evidence of that. All Ancient remains found in burial sites and copper artifacts in the Great Lakes area have been identified to be Native American by DNA or dental traits.
roflswamp6 no there isnt everything from religion and material isnt related, plus by the time the minoans were alive seafaring wasnt as good as the egyptians yet
During the 1200's there was a direct trade between the Anasazi (American Southwest) and the Toltec (Valley of Mexica)...The Anasazi exported turquoise beads and cut stones to the Toltec and imported copper bells and axes...The Anasazi did have copper smiths for thousands of years, but mostly relied on stone tools. More than have the Anasazi copper came from the Toltec and most of the turquoise the Toltec had came from the Anasazi...Trade broke down when the Toltec and Anasazi Nations collapsed.
Actually, mainstream scientist today rely on science rather than religions...In the past, archaeology was fueled by ethnocentrism and religion while scientific studies like archaeology, paleobotany, carbine dating among other fields of study were in the early days of development. I haven't studied Egypt all that much, but what I do know is that Egypt did not have seafaring ships to travel to a another land mass 6,000 years ago...Maybe they did travel during the Glory days of 2,000 B.C
G'day Thomas Oklahoma, I have a question for you if don't mind. I'm Australian, so I am a long way off. My question is have iron or steel swords ever been found in north america, particularly in the Washington state/Great Lakes area prior to the white man? Also, have any swords of any other metal been found also?
Sorry for the late reply, I haven't been on my videos for months. No, there wasn't any pre columbian iron or steel swords found in the Americas, there have been iron tools and some weapons found which were forged from cold or hot iron meteorites. The Tlingit daggers shown in the video are post colombian that the Tlingit and others forged from iron or steel that was acquired from French or Russian traders during the 1600's and so on.
Most pre-columbian metals were not smelted, much of those artifacts were forged by simple cold or hot hammering. There are areas in Mesoamerica that smelted bronze and other alloys, but the Andeans were the most advanced with 2.5 thousand years of smelting traditions. Dozens of Native Native of North America adopted smelting practices from Eurasia during the late 16 hundreds or later.
This was a great video. I wish more people made videos like this. Where it doesn't end with "Atlantis reptilian aliens did it." These people of prehistory are constantly being sold short. They made some amazing things. I wish I could be a fly on their wall....
Many Navajo people did learn how to smelt, cast and craft metal based on traditional and westernized metallurgy in the 1800's...We still use traditional symbolism and geometric designs of the Navajo, Zuni and Hopi on our Southwestern contemporary metal Jewelry and knifes...The Pueblo and Navajo's silver, bras, gold, turquoise and sterling jewelry is now world famous and is a billion dollar industry.
Today our metals and alloys professor told us about copper-gold alloys, and dealoying. Basically it's just a way to get the copper out of the gold by corrosion. You are left with a gold sponge. It seems that the incas would use this to make gold pieces that were stronger, required less gold yet still looked the same. They would work the surface and so on. Now I want to learn about their metallurgy, seems fascinating.
Fun fact: all extreme sports use techiques and clothes that native americans master: tents, canoes, booths, coats.You are the real deal.I remeber going to the polar caves in new hampshire as a teenager and being fascinated by native american culture.
So in other words you don't have solid proof just pure speculation that the Greeks "might had influenced them" and a Eurocentric agenda? And if they did make contact who's to say that the natives didn't influence them? Where's the written record that the Greeks had contact with the natives?...Surely that's something they would've written about.
The gold sculpture shown at 11:24 and as the icon for this video looks like the Moche god Ai Apaec. Ai Apaec was depicted as a spider, a winged creature, or a sea creature - as shown in this example with the octopus style arms - to symbolize dominion over land, air, and water. Ai Apaec also enjoyed cutting off human heads, and is often referred to as the Decapitator.
Excellent video Thomas. Very informative. The artifacts show beautiful workmanship. I wonder if the spear and arrow points were used for hunting or war or were ceremonial? Thank you for this video.
Yeah, most of the women I know loves to wear that sterling turquoise jewelry of the Southwest. The Anasazi and the Mound Builders introduced farming and cultivation that was inherited from Mesoamerica.
Thank You for giving me back my pass. All the movie's growing up dipick natives as barbaric. It's nice to know that they were on almost the same level. Where did it all go wrong?
At 13:35 is arsenic bronze. At 14:02 is platinum, gold, tin, zinc and copper alloy (it's a bronze knife), but what's the common name for it? At 1:43 is Iron that was used for hunting whales. And many Americans think Natives never used Metals until Europeans came and brought it to the Americas.
Even Plutarch mentions that this traderoute was upkept by a number of ''colonies'', actually more like small outpost ports which had to be manned continuously by colonists from the Aegean to maintain the links particularly in America where cohabitation with the numerous indigenous people meant quick absorption (intermarriages, cultural shift, linguistic shift etc.). Greeks in those mines could had been just the managers, running the mines and the ports - but the job was done by local workforce.
+Marina Doshkevich The diseases and imperialism that the Spanish brought disrupted the Native trade routes where metal was being distributed. Outbreaks of foreign diseases caused many Nations to collapse forcing many Natives to reorganize into smaller Nations or Tribes, most ancient metallurgy skills were lost with the collapse of many ancient Indigenous Civilizations and Cultures. As a result, most Natives began to trade for metal with the Europeans. Also, metal demand was at an all time low when the Euros first arrived.
Also the incas had leaf shaped bronze swords called tuccina And the moches who are 1800 years older than incans had full set of bronze armors for their warlords and bronze swords, curved and straight blades. The Moche and Chimu also worked with platina too
You live in a fantasy world of your own creation...Giant Sumerians in ancient America? Come on, you are uneducated and rely on pseudoscience created by Eurocentrics...No physical proof of giants have ever been found the Americas or anywhere on the planet...You need to go troll somewhere else.
Martin, you have to reailse that there is another thing to travel for fun and tourism and another to travel for making a living. Greeks travelled to make a living out of it. They maintained the link to Americas as long as it was financially viable. Bronze was gold in the so-called ''Bronze Era'' and it paid dividents to go to Americas to bring that trade organising all that intrinsic network of ports throughout the North Atlantic (Iberia, Britannia, Ogygia (that is Greenland) etc.).
The presence of a few islands in the Atlantic and of a large continent enveloping the Atlantic ocean was TOTALLY KNOWN to ancient Greeks, at least to the knowledgeable ones. It is another thing to know and another to spend money to organise expenditions. Greeks did not control Gibraltar at any point post-Bronze Age and they were certainly more than busy with more pressing affairs given the pressure from Phoenicians and Persians and others, than chasing other continents. Matter of conditions.
That by no means says that local natives ''imported'' high culture from the visiting Aegean people - most certainly they had theirs and in many aspects they were more advanced than European and Asian cultures. But the whatever (whatever was that, small or big) cultural impact of Aegean people would naturally be bigger on American natives than that of American natives on Aegean people as it was the Aegean people who were travelling there and not the opposite.
I started looking into this because of the stories of Minoans. I live in the UP and have been to the mines several times. I've read every journal and studied every map I could find. According to their own original journals, the surveyors of this area were specifically directed to ignore anything that portrayed the natives as capable of smelting copper and it WAS because of the whole Manifest Destiny concept. For the most part, the surveyors had a lot of respect for the natives, often inter-married with them, were not cool with it and said so but they did their jobs. Missionaries tended to say things like: "If God doesn't agree, He'd put a stop to it", which I have to say is messed up. In their defense, they were not after resources. They legitimately believed they were there to save souls. They lived pretty rough along side the natives, had compassion and love for them and actually did want and often tried to help. I can only come to these conclusions: The native culture and history here is easily several thousand years old and there were at least a few native towns, cemeteries, and mounds in every county up here. Those mines were worked by several different native peoples over the course of thousands of years and there was a trade network that spanned the entire country for that copper. Apparently 'smelting' was a line not to be crossed and the early surveyors of the country were specifically directed to ignore evidence of it. I'm quite sure they found plenty. The Native American's history, religion, culture and people deserve respect and always have. Their history is a part of the story that includes all of us and they deserve to be remembered without bias and honored as such. At the very least, we owe them that.
+chucky mcgun Then explain the stone arrows, no wheel, no using horses as draft animals, only for riding….something is wrong with this picture. And most of all..NO WRITTEN HISTORY.
+Marina Doshkevich There is recorded history of Native America across the Americas, it's in the Mayan and Aztec Writings, all pictographs, hieroglyphics, symbolism and oral history of Native America. The Spanish destroyed much of it, but the recorded history still exist.
Stone does not oxidize. There were no roads, but they did use wheels [just not for wagons]. Horses were brought by the Spanish, but natives _did_ use dogs for work animals. There is nothing wrong with _this picture_, only your ignorance and lack of education.
Marina Doshkevich Horses were not in the Americas until the Spanish introduced them. 1600's? There is little use for a wheel if there are no roads. Stone arrows? not sure what u mean.... The natives up here are certainly more aware of their ancestral history than I myself am. They most certainly have a history thousands of years old. Technically, kinda literally, (unless ur native) our ancestors took the place of theirs, our children, and grandchildren took the place of theirs. That is an unpleasant truth, for sure. You can respect that or not, but it is the truth. What that means and what we should do as a nation? I don't know.....Not hide it... Or lie..... First off..... I would say... Lets start with that....
You have also to put the numbers. In the '"Age of Sail'', it was Portugal, Spain, France, Holland & Flanders, Britain and then Russia in the East - with all these also drawing numbers of Italian and Greek specialist navigators as well as German, Scottish and Irish and Polish-Baltic workforce. I.e. much of the European continent worked on it. In the Bronze Age, it was an affair of small Mycenaean states - at best dragging around small numbers of other Mediterranean populations allied to them
Now when the Eastern Mediterranean collapsed in the 12th century BC - and you need to put in picture the magnitude of collapse (you have seen nothing like that in the last 800 years...no WWII and WWI can be compared to what happened in the 12th century BC... ) - all that complex but so fragile network of the Atlantic paths was abandoned and thus it would had to be reset from the beginning. By the 9th century Phoenicians were commercially in control of the Gibraltar and kept it closed
in school they teach you that metallurgy was only in europe asia middle east and north africa but is was in america too and the schools will not teach you that
In that way there is little possibility to find something extrovertly looking like Greek - most thigns we find (from objects to human remains) will naturally be beloning to the indigenous people. There is nothing strange in this. We know Greeks and later Phoenicians had such outposts in Britain - but then all what we find is of local people. Only occasionally we find some object linked to Greece/Phoenice.
As such, after centuries of non-use of the Atlantic traderoutes, all what remained was the distant memories kept either in historic records or in myths. And since myths are always difficult to use, read the historic records such as that of Plutarch (''on the apparent side of the orbit of the moon'') where the full geography of North Atlantic with distances is mentioned all the way into St. Lawrence gulf (entry point to the lakes). STILL, occasional trips were done. Plutarch mentions one such.
at 3 min into the video it would get ancient astronaut theorists thinking. a "bird man" sitting on a "bell" with "wings". got me thinking. plus the thought that when europeans came from the east they brought metal to the natives and traded it for furs which helped spread disease. cool to think that just 1000 years earlier they had metal already and were even fusing copper with gold.
You have to see the bigger picture : the Transatlantic Trade occured in the Bronze Age that is between 3000 and 1200 BC. I think you really still ignore the magnitude of destruction that occured in the 150 years period 1200 - 1050 BC and what followed. I do need to underline to you that WWII and WWI and Crimean War and Napoleontian wars ALTOGETHER would seem a joke, a child's game in front of the magnitude of destruction that occured in the period 1200 - 1050 BC.
Francisco P. What iron depiction are you referring to? I have a few pictures of meteorite iron tools that are 1,200 to 150 years old, with one picture of a tlingit forged iron spear point/knife made from east Asian or European scrap iron. I already admitted to a few mistakes in the video. But the majority of the artifacts are authentic with a few reproductions.
So sad they don’t teach about this in school. There has been a movement to vilify colonialism, but the material culture of Indians in North America is still down played. Anyone know anything about how these artifacts were made? I’m curious about the tools and techniques they used.
Yes, they don't teach that in k-12 schools, maybe just at the college level. As for as how the tools and such were made, well in North America is was all cold or hot hammering and filing. The Natives used mostly copper with a limited use of iron from meteorites. They also used gold, but that was rare. Some bronze and alloy jewerly made it way into eastern North America though trade with the Taino or Mesoamericans. Natives in the North used a blend of copper, iron and stone tools made from basset, flint, obsidian and black jade, which as also used across the Americas. In Mesoamerica they had some use of smelted cast bronze from copper and tin or silver. In South America they had a advanced metallurgy skills, making different types of bronze alloy tools from copper, tin, nickel or arsenic. The South Americans in the Andes also were able to melt and smelt platinum using a process called Sintering - mixing granules of silver with platinum to lower the melting point of platinum, which is 1770 C. The Andeans created various allows made from gold, tin, nickel, silver and platinum to create a variety of different shaped ornaments and jewelry.
In the Andes over billion ton of different metals were mined in the Andes and low lands of Western South America for nearly 2,000 years. In the Great Lakes region, there have been over a billion tons of copper mined with in 5,000 year span. Copper workings moved into Mesoamerica from North America nearly 3,000 years ago and bronze and alloy technology moved into Mesoamerica about 1,500 to 900 years ago.
The Indigenous culture most known for using iron and steel was the Tlingit and some other Nations of the Totem Culture. The Tlingit came across a wrecked Japanese ship during the late 1600s or early 1700s and found a whole ship filled with iron and steel technology, so they studied it and gave a name for iron and steel, they used all the metal on the ship to make tools and weapons similar to how they've always made iron tools from meteorites. They later acquired iron from the Russians, English and French during the fur trade. The European traders couldn't believe that some Indigenous Nation way up North were using steel and iron tools and weapons. You can google "Tlingit iron or steel knifes" to see 150 to 330 year old knives.
As such the number of ships from Mediterranean to America was far less than the numbers of ships from Western Europe to America, as was the number of people moving around. The Aegean people also seemed to maintain the link for precise purposes of particular trade - that of metals. It was not any conscious effort of conquest or colonisation of America but of getting in and taking what was valuable for them. Copper +Tin = Bronze A completely different layout.
You make the supposition that there should had been huge numbers of Greek settlers there and that there should be a huge transatlantic commerce. Which needs not be the case. Greeks were few in numbers and then they were going to America for a precise purpose : to upkeep a trade-route of metals mainly copper & tin as well as gold or silver. They did not seem that interested in food commerce - America back then did not produce large quantities that could be exported.
This is something we cannot answer but like with all other things, the first utilisation occured several millenia before the era we find the first attested usage. I.e. currently we find the earliest findings of usage of metal around 10,000 BC. Which means that easily usage of metal could had been developed several millenia before that. Do not forget that some 12,000 years ago the cataclysm occured and during that era we find few things in general, stones included...
First off those statues are not copper it is stone so about half of everything you did show it is not a metal it's stone or clay. Second all the metal that was shown was not ancient American. Stop trying to deceive people Mormon
magnificent people.I always liked indians better than cowboys even though in the movies they were dipicted as the bad guys. when playing with toys in the 80's me and my brother would fight over who was the cowboy cos none of us wanted to.Maybe my physical resemblance made me identify, we are half african half european.
This vid has its moments, basic display of artifacts with a little information has a place, no question. Unfortunately it is limited in its explanatory background on the technical advancements of the various cultures. As one goes farther south it becomes superior: The Mayans and the Inca produced remarkable works of art, in particular using gold. The Northern American Indians, far less so -- it is unclear, at best, whether they were able to smelt any metal at all. The copper age is still technically part of the Stone Age ("Chalcolithic" means copper-stone after all, and is defined as the later Neolithic). They did great work for what it was, but it is not necessary to exaggerate the accomplishments of the indigenous population of the Americas, it can be appreciated even if it was more primitive than what the Europeans had on hand when they arrived.
I beg to differ on the smelting by the Inca. Its clear that the Mapuche learned this from Mitmae groups such as the Diaguitas who learned it from the Inca. It only became a bit more sophisticated after the arrival of the Spanish.
I wonder why some of the "copper" or "bronze" stuff are made from stone or pottery (I cannot tell from the picture but I guess it is pottery) around 4:30 Lot of bullshit in this video.
+Telemnar númenórëan It's copper, I made a mistake and based my labeling on a site and amateur archaeologist, and the site doesn't exist anymore. However, that picture shows artifacts made of copper.
+Thomas Oklahoma The vasse or whatever it is on 4:30 is clearly not metal since piece was chipped off. Metal wouldn't do it. There are more artifact which are made of pottery but I cannot prove it because the pictures doesn't have really good quality. At least some of the bronze/copper stuff looks like european ones. I would also say that decoration of some artifact doesn't fit the culture. the !calendar" shown in mayan intro is anything but mayan. This together makes this video full of lies. Is that firesteel at 2:20? hardly copper or bronze
Telemnar númenórëan copper can be chipped, especially if it's hundreds of years old. Stone masons can't shape most rocks like that into a vase, unless it's jade or a few other types. When hammered copper is heated, it can easily be shaped into vases, cups and small statues Are you referring to the bronze gears? I've only come across speculations from historians and archaeologist from a Website that doesn't exist anymore either, on that site they speculated that the gears where used for calender's and mechanical experiments. But other historians and archaeologist continue to study and speculate what these bronze gears were used for. To me, they were experimenting with gears. Hey, if you got a better source, than present it, and I may use it in my next metallurgy video that will replace this one.
Telemnar númenórëan Look some of the artifacts were made after Columbus so of course some of the tools, weapons and silverware was influenced by th technology that developed in Southern Eurasia. "At least some of the bronze/copper stuff looks like european ones"? What are you trying to suggest, that it had to be europeans who created these artifacts? I hope you're not one of those Eurocentrics revisionist history types. BTW, people learn from other cultures and so did the Europeans who never began metallurgy on their own, Metallurgy began in the Middle East, Indian and China some thousands of years ago.
Thomas Oklahoma I'm not talking about how they were made. I suggest those artifact were made by Europeans. In Europe, found in Europe and never been in America. If you can give me reliable source that those artifact were found in America, that would be great. What you are saying about European metalurgy is missleading. Metalrugy was not invented in Europe but indoeuropeans - modern european populations - did bring metalurgy to Europe. It is much more complicated than you maybe think it is :) I also compared them to central europen items, not mediterran.
That does not mean that Greeks established the first American indigenous cultures but that through established traderoutes they might had influenced them at some point one way or another - how much or how little this is of course another question, but the reality is there : that the American continent in the Bronze Age (3000 BC to 1200 BC) was certainly linked through traderoutes to the Mediterranean world.
This metal work of indigenous people in North and South America is quite interesting,But with the exception of an ideographic system used by the Mayans and their neighbors near the Yucatan peninsula, none of the native languages of America had a writing system. So it's difficult to learn how they developed the technology. There is some similarity to works in South America with works done in the middle east and China, and there are Chinese researchers that claim that work came from China explorers in the ancient world.(Other theories exist too)
YangSunWoo There is, (and with a bit of speculation) based on things like cutting marks (etchings) In any event it takes a significant amount of research, and best guessing to try to come up with explanations for some of the truly odd things that are apart of the ancient past. Some things are really quite extraordinary, and conventional thinking just doesn't get to satisfactory answers. Here's a part of the list of research sites, note the bibliographies and further reading sections, as they to are required reading. Thanks for your interest,prepare to do some reading. www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/trade/hd_trade.htm depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/romchin1.html humansarefree.com/2013/12/the-amazing-connections-between-inaca.html news.sciencemag.org/archaeology/2015/02/mysterious-indo-european-homeland-may-have-been-steppes-ukraine-and-russia
YangSunWoo No problem. Just as an aside, be careful to sort the wheat from the chaff . I try to use genuine sources of the antiquities, but occasionally hit pseudoscience, and there's alot of that (pseudoscience on You tube,which I'm sure U are aware.Thanks and good hunting!
Supposably many ancient people (Phoenicians,Egyptians,Greeks,etc.) were traveling to America and back so apparently it was no big secret that many people knew that there was another continent to the west.That knowledge would've been passed down generation by generation and by the time of Columbus it would've been common knowledge(specially to sailors) don't you think?..but it wasn't since Columbus thought he had landed in the indies when he accidently "discovered America".
Yet to answer your story there is a long list of archaeological items found in America (from North to South) which relate directly to Bronze Age Greeks, to Phoenicians and then to Hellenistic and Roman times Greeks/Romans (Greeks manned largely the navies of Romans). There is no consensus today as most of these findings were found by non-archaeologists and the conext (precise place etc.) is cast in doubt while for others that were found they were archived without developing a theory around.
In this reality, during the Bronze Age, either the Mediterraneans would had gone to America or the local Americans would have travelled to the Mediterranean for that exchange. ALL evidence (and I can make it VERY long here) shows that it was the Mediterranean people (most precisely Aegean people, i.e. the ancestors of 1st millenium Greeks) who went there. Now on the question ''who influenced whom'' the answer is simple : influence went from the most progressive to the most regressive.
Mediterranean ancient material HAS been excavated in North and South America - though for many any other explanation would do than the much-hated reality for them Mediterranean (as European) presence. South American artwork bears extreme similarities with Bronze Age Aegean one and this has been pinpointed even by amateurs at one sight. Google, there is plenty on that stuff. Nothing is accidental on this earth. There were working links between the continents in the Bronze Age.
Well the reality is that there was influence. During the Bronze Age there were established traderoutes by Greeks linking the Mediterranean to North, Central and South America. The links are proven even through biology (e.g. there have been found fossilised insects living only in tobacco plants in fossilized stocks at Thera island in Greece). There are similarities of the pre-Aztecan/pre-Incas indigenous American cultures with Bronze Age Greek cultures are visible even today.
However, there are traces that scientifically prove that links (frequent or rare, but certainly active links!) existed between the Aegean and America. In Thera, the archaeological dig unearthed mid - Bronze Age silos that had fossilied food-stocks and among that were found insects that could had only come from America as they live only on tobacco leafs. There is no possibility these same insects were found anyway in southwestern Europe let alone Greece as there was no tobacco plants in Europe.
I doubt all that knowledge they supposably had about the Americas would be lost when so many people from different ancient cultures supposably had knowledge of it.I think that's a big hole in your eurocentric theory but we can go on for ever and never come to an agreement so let's just agree to disagree. Take care
And to think that at a time when Europe,Asia and the Middle East were all influencing each other to build their great civilizations our ancestors were already building great civilizations on their own with no outside influence from the old world...that's amazing
well that's if you consider native americans a single people.Remember that you had already skills before discovering America from Alaska.You descend from peoples that migrated and hence had to be resourceful.
It's not shown in Western history books, but Natives were actually one of the most advanced metallurgist in the ancient world...Love the art and metal work of our ancestors, I can see where today's Native silver smiths of the American Southwest get their crafting skills from, it handed down from our ancestors of the Americas.
Sintering, electroplating, and much more were being used by my ancestors. Everyday a little "shocking" truth comes up. People have the tendency of viewing us as weak, incapable of knowing such things. However, things are surfacing and everyday a dis_believer sees the truth and cannot turn away. Intelligent and strong we are.
Machu Michu was just an example.I have great respect for native american hunting culture, your freedom, your traditions. please nurture that, it is way more precious than the technical crap of western civilization.Don't let your gods and wisdom die, they may lead the way when nothing is left. Regards from a west african born in Europe struggling to know who he was...before colonization.
@@ivanbarbosa81 won’t be in Europe long
That's true, most Tribes and Nations were in the copper age hundreds of years ago. LOL, My Navajo People were in the stone age until the 1800's...My Navajo people did sometimes trade for copper during the 1500's, The Navajo imported copper and exported rugs and blankets that had creative geometric designs...We exported furs and imported avocado and pepper seeds from Native Mexicans...We were a Nomadic People that moved into the Southwest around 1300 AD and we learned how to farm from the Pueblo.
I'm working on another video that may replace this one, because I've found alot more metal working skills and more unique artifacts to remake this video better. Plus I made some errors in this video.
Do you have any links to a website where I can use pics that show artifacts of the Purhepecha?
I think the theme of the video I'm working on will be "The fashioning of precious metal and stones" example: any artifacts made of metals, obsidian, jade turquoise will be displayed on my video.
Hello Thomas Oklahoma, very interesting video, although I do have a question, what is an Irish torc doing here please? At around 12 minutes in there is an image of the Blessington Lunula from County Wicklow, Ireland, which is on display in The British Museum. Moreover, the caption reads that it is a gold copper and tin alloy. It is not, it is gold only.
If the greeks visited the Americas before columbus did, than the Greeks would have brought corn, tomatoes, sintering, sunfloweres, treasures of jade and gold, etc. would have been taken back to Mediterranean, but there are no evidence of that.
All Ancient remains found in burial sites and copper artifacts in the Great Lakes area have been identified to be Native American by DNA or dental traits.
Theres also similarities between minoans and aztecs so this may be true
roflswamp6 no there isnt everything from religion and material isnt related, plus by the time the minoans were alive seafaring wasnt as good as the egyptians yet
the vikings and the chinese visited america before columbus
During the 1200's there was a direct trade between the Anasazi (American Southwest) and the Toltec (Valley of Mexica)...The Anasazi exported turquoise beads and cut stones to the Toltec and imported copper bells and axes...The Anasazi did have copper smiths for thousands of years, but mostly relied on stone tools. More than have the Anasazi copper came from the Toltec and most of the turquoise the Toltec had came from the Anasazi...Trade broke down when the Toltec and Anasazi Nations collapsed.
Actually, mainstream scientist today rely on science rather than religions...In the past, archaeology was fueled by ethnocentrism and religion while scientific studies like archaeology, paleobotany, carbine dating among other fields of study were in the early days of development.
I haven't studied Egypt all that much, but what I do know is that Egypt did not have seafaring ships to travel to a another land mass 6,000 years ago...Maybe they did travel during the Glory days of 2,000 B.C
the soundtrack music is really cool ...
G'day Thomas Oklahoma, I have a question for you if don't mind. I'm Australian, so I am a long way off. My question is have iron or steel swords ever been found in north america, particularly in the Washington state/Great Lakes area prior to the white man? Also, have any swords of any other metal been found also?
Sorry for the late reply, I haven't been on my videos for months. No, there wasn't any pre columbian iron or steel swords found in the Americas, there have been iron tools and some weapons found which were forged from cold or hot iron meteorites. The Tlingit daggers shown in the video are post colombian that the Tlingit and others forged from iron or steel that was acquired from French or Russian traders during the 1600's and so on.
How about showing us the site where all this was smelted
Most pre-columbian metals were not smelted, much of those artifacts were forged by simple cold or hot hammering. There are areas in Mesoamerica that smelted bronze and other alloys, but the Andeans were the most advanced with 2.5 thousand years of smelting traditions. Dozens of Native Native of North America adopted smelting practices from Eurasia during the late 16 hundreds or later.
This was a great video. I wish more people made videos like this. Where it doesn't end with "Atlantis reptilian aliens did it." These people of prehistory are constantly being sold short. They made some amazing things. I wish I could be a fly on their wall....
❤
Many Navajo people did learn how to smelt, cast and craft metal based on traditional and westernized metallurgy in the 1800's...We still use traditional symbolism and geometric designs of the Navajo, Zuni and Hopi on our Southwestern contemporary metal Jewelry and knifes...The Pueblo and Navajo's silver, bras, gold, turquoise and sterling jewelry is now world famous and is a billion dollar industry.
Today our metals and alloys professor told us about copper-gold alloys, and dealoying. Basically it's just a way to get the copper out of the gold by corrosion. You are left with a gold sponge. It seems that the incas would use this to make gold pieces that were stronger, required less gold yet still looked the same. They would work the surface and so on.
Now I want to learn about their metallurgy, seems fascinating.
Fun fact: all extreme sports use techiques and clothes that native americans master: tents, canoes, booths, coats.You are the real deal.I remeber going to the polar caves in new hampshire as a teenager and being fascinated by native american culture.
WOW! Fantastic video! It will be FEATURED on my channel. Good going!
So in other words you don't have solid proof just pure speculation that the Greeks "might had influenced them" and a Eurocentric agenda?
And if they did make contact who's to say that the natives didn't influence them?
Where's the written record that the Greeks had contact with the natives?...Surely that's something they would've written about.
The gold sculpture shown at 11:24 and as the icon for this video looks like the Moche god Ai Apaec.
Ai Apaec was depicted as a spider, a winged creature, or a sea creature - as shown in this example with the octopus style arms - to symbolize dominion over land, air, and water.
Ai Apaec also enjoyed cutting off human heads, and is often referred to as the Decapitator.
Excellent video Thomas. Very informative.
The artifacts show beautiful workmanship.
I wonder if the spear and arrow points were used for hunting or war or were ceremonial?
Thank you for this video.
Yeah, most of the women I know loves to wear that sterling turquoise jewelry of the Southwest.
The Anasazi and the Mound Builders introduced farming and cultivation that was inherited from Mesoamerica.
Thank You for giving me back my pass. All the movie's growing up dipick natives as barbaric. It's nice to know that they were on almost the same level. Where did it all go wrong?
Name of the song?
At 13:35 is arsenic bronze.
At 14:02 is platinum, gold, tin, zinc and copper alloy (it's a bronze knife), but what's the common name for it?
At 1:43 is Iron that was used for hunting whales.
And many Americans think Natives never used Metals until Europeans came and brought it to the Americas.
There is no such thing as giants, those are found in myths and folklore.
Even Plutarch mentions that this traderoute was upkept by a number of ''colonies'', actually more like small outpost ports which had to be manned continuously by colonists from the Aegean to maintain the links particularly in America where cohabitation with the numerous indigenous people meant quick absorption (intermarriages, cultural shift, linguistic shift etc.). Greeks in those mines could had been just the managers, running the mines and the ports - but the job was done by local workforce.
Eurocentric’s are bigots, end of story. Peer-reviewed history along with archeological studies tells the truth.
So why are there all these stone arrows? Thast what they used in the time of settlers.???
+Marina Doshkevich
The diseases and imperialism that the Spanish brought disrupted the Native trade routes where metal was being distributed. Outbreaks of foreign diseases caused many Nations to collapse forcing many Natives to reorganize into smaller Nations or Tribes, most ancient metallurgy skills were lost with the collapse of many ancient Indigenous Civilizations and Cultures. As a result, most Natives began to trade for metal with the Europeans. Also, metal demand was at an all time low when the Euros first arrived.
Stone does not rust...
My bad, that was directed at GPlinthon.
Also the incas had leaf shaped bronze swords called tuccina
And the moches who are 1800 years older than incans had full set of bronze armors for their warlords and bronze swords, curved and straight blades. The Moche and Chimu also worked with platina too
You live in a fantasy world of your own creation...Giant Sumerians in ancient America? Come on, you are uneducated and rely on pseudoscience created by Eurocentrics...No physical proof of giants have ever been found the Americas or anywhere on the planet...You need to go troll somewhere else.
Martin, you have to reailse that there is another thing to travel for fun and tourism and another to travel for making a living. Greeks travelled to make a living out of it. They maintained the link to Americas as long as it was financially viable. Bronze was gold in the so-called ''Bronze Era'' and it paid dividents to go to Americas to bring that trade organising all that intrinsic network of ports throughout the North Atlantic (Iberia, Britannia, Ogygia (that is Greenland) etc.).
No one was using metal 12,000 year age, everyone used various types of stone!!!
The presence of a few islands in the Atlantic and of a large continent enveloping the Atlantic ocean was TOTALLY KNOWN to ancient Greeks, at least to the knowledgeable ones. It is another thing to know and another to spend money to organise expenditions. Greeks did not control Gibraltar at any point post-Bronze Age and they were certainly more than busy with more pressing affairs given the pressure from Phoenicians and Persians and others, than chasing other continents. Matter of conditions.
My people had those copper shields.
Impressive
That by no means says that local natives ''imported'' high culture from the visiting Aegean people - most certainly they had theirs and in many aspects they were more advanced than European and Asian cultures.
But the whatever (whatever was that, small or big) cultural impact of Aegean people would naturally be bigger on American natives than that of American natives on Aegean people as it was the Aegean people who were travelling there and not the opposite.
Did the native americans have their own gods of metal?
I started looking into this because of the stories of Minoans. I live in the UP and have been to the mines several times. I've read every journal and studied every map I could find. According to their own original journals, the surveyors of this area were specifically directed to ignore anything that portrayed the natives as capable of smelting copper and it WAS because of the whole Manifest Destiny concept. For the most part, the surveyors had a lot of respect for the natives, often inter-married with them, were not cool with it and said so but they did their jobs. Missionaries tended to say things like: "If God doesn't agree, He'd put a stop to it", which I have to say is messed up. In their defense, they were not after resources. They legitimately believed they were there to save souls. They lived pretty rough along side the natives, had compassion and love for them and actually did want and often tried to help.
I can only come to these conclusions: The native culture and history here is easily several thousand years old and there were at least a few native towns, cemeteries, and mounds in every county up here. Those mines were worked by several different native peoples over the course of thousands of years and there was a trade network that spanned the entire country for that copper. Apparently 'smelting' was a line not to be crossed and the early surveyors of the country were specifically directed to ignore evidence of it. I'm quite sure they found plenty.
The Native American's history, religion, culture and people deserve respect and always have. Their history is a part of the story that includes all of us and they deserve to be remembered without bias and honored as such. At the very least, we owe them that.
+chucky mcgun Then explain the stone arrows, no wheel, no using horses as draft animals, only for riding….something is wrong with this picture. And most of all..NO WRITTEN HISTORY.
+Marina Doshkevich
There is recorded history of Native America across the Americas, it's in the Mayan and Aztec Writings, all pictographs, hieroglyphics, symbolism and oral history of Native America. The Spanish destroyed much of it, but the recorded history still exist.
Stone does not oxidize. There were no roads, but they did use wheels [just not for wagons].
Horses were brought by the Spanish, but natives _did_ use dogs for work animals.
There is nothing wrong with _this picture_, only your ignorance and lack of education.
Marina Doshkevich
Horses were not in the Americas until the Spanish introduced them. 1600's? There is little use for a wheel if there are no roads. Stone arrows? not sure what u mean.... The natives up here are certainly more aware of their ancestral history than I myself am. They most certainly have a history thousands of years old. Technically, kinda literally, (unless ur native) our ancestors took the place of theirs, our children, and grandchildren took the place of theirs. That is an unpleasant truth, for sure. You can respect that or not, but it is the truth. What that means and what we should do as a nation? I don't know.....Not hide it... Or lie..... First off..... I would say... Lets start with that....
well said and im sure the comments i havent read are whites opposed to that notion. The written language of some tribes were destroyed as well
You have also to put the numbers. In the '"Age of Sail'', it was Portugal, Spain, France, Holland & Flanders, Britain and then Russia in the East - with all these also drawing numbers of Italian and Greek specialist navigators as well as German, Scottish and Irish and Polish-Baltic workforce. I.e. much of the European continent worked on it.
In the Bronze Age, it was an affair of small Mycenaean states - at best dragging around small numbers of other Mediterranean populations allied to them
"But, but, Native Americans were in the Stone Age!"
99% were
There is not DNA or cultural influences from the old world to the New World prior to Columbus. What you have presented is only “Pseudo Science”
Disease brought down the Aztec empire, because it was stated that the technology and manpower of the Spanish was not enough to bring down the empire.
Now when the Eastern Mediterranean collapsed in the 12th century BC - and you need to put in picture the magnitude of collapse (you have seen nothing like that in the last 800 years...no WWII and WWI can be compared to what happened in the 12th century BC... ) - all that complex but so fragile network of the Atlantic paths was abandoned and thus it would had to be reset from the beginning. By the 9th century Phoenicians were commercially in control of the Gibraltar and kept it closed
They never made it out of the chacolithic period or Copper Age, too bad they didn't discover tin. Still amazing work !
in school they teach you that metallurgy was only in europe asia middle east and north africa but is was in america too and the schools will not teach you that
In that way there is little possibility to find something extrovertly looking like Greek - most thigns we find (from objects to human remains) will naturally be beloning to the indigenous people. There is nothing strange in this. We know Greeks and later Phoenicians had such outposts in Britain - but then all what we find is of local people. Only occasionally we find some object linked to Greece/Phoenice.
As such, after centuries of non-use of the Atlantic traderoutes, all what remained was the distant memories kept either in historic records or in myths. And since myths are always difficult to use, read the historic records such as that of Plutarch (''on the apparent side of the orbit of the moon'') where the full geography of North Atlantic with distances is mentioned all the way into St. Lawrence gulf (entry point to the lakes). STILL, occasional trips were done. Plutarch mentions one such.
thanks man
at 3 min into the video it would get ancient astronaut theorists thinking. a "bird man" sitting on a "bell" with "wings". got me thinking. plus the thought that when europeans came from the east they brought metal to the natives and traded it for furs which helped spread disease. cool to think that just 1000 years earlier they had metal already and were even fusing copper with gold.
You have to see the bigger picture : the Transatlantic Trade occured in the Bronze Age that is between 3000 and 1200 BC. I think you really still ignore the magnitude of destruction that occured in the 150 years period 1200 - 1050 BC and what followed. I do need to underline to you that WWII and WWI and Crimean War and Napoleontian wars ALTOGETHER would seem a joke, a child's game in front of the magnitude of destruction that occured in the period 1200 - 1050 BC.
sorry i coudnt get back to u sooner, but yeah I have some.
If that knife was iron it would have showed signs of oxidation and rust
Francisco P.
What iron depiction are you referring to? I have a few pictures of meteorite iron tools that are 1,200 to 150 years old, with one picture of a tlingit forged iron spear point/knife made from east Asian or European scrap iron. I already admitted to a few mistakes in the video. But the majority of the artifacts are authentic with a few reproductions.
So sad they don’t teach about this in school. There has been a movement to vilify colonialism, but the material culture of Indians in North America is still down played. Anyone know anything about how these artifacts were made? I’m curious about the tools and techniques they used.
Yes, they don't teach that in k-12 schools, maybe just at the college level.
As for as how the tools and such were made, well in North America is was all cold or hot hammering and filing. The Natives used mostly copper with a limited use of iron from meteorites. They also used gold, but that was rare. Some bronze and alloy jewerly made it way into eastern North America though trade with the Taino or Mesoamericans.
Natives in the North used a blend of copper, iron and stone tools made from basset, flint, obsidian and black jade, which as also used across the Americas. In Mesoamerica they had some use of smelted cast bronze from copper and tin or silver.
In South America they had a advanced metallurgy skills, making different types of bronze alloy tools from copper, tin, nickel or arsenic. The South Americans in the Andes also were able to melt and smelt platinum using a process called Sintering - mixing granules of silver with platinum to lower the melting point of platinum, which is 1770 C. The Andeans created various allows made from gold, tin, nickel, silver and platinum to create a variety of different shaped ornaments and jewelry.
In the Andes over billion ton of different metals were mined in the Andes and low lands of Western South America for nearly 2,000 years. In the Great Lakes region, there have been over a billion tons of copper mined with in 5,000 year span. Copper workings moved into Mesoamerica from North America nearly 3,000 years ago and bronze and alloy technology moved into Mesoamerica about 1,500 to 900 years ago.
The Indigenous culture most known for using iron and steel was the Tlingit and some other Nations of the Totem Culture. The Tlingit came across a wrecked Japanese ship during the late 1600s or early 1700s and found a whole ship filled with iron and steel technology, so they studied it and gave a name for iron and steel, they used all the metal on the ship to make tools and weapons similar to how they've always made iron tools from meteorites. They later acquired iron from the Russians, English and French during the fur trade. The European traders couldn't believe that some Indigenous Nation way up North were using steel and iron tools and weapons. You can google "Tlingit iron or steel knifes" to see 150 to 330 year old knives.
As such the number of ships from Mediterranean to America was far less than the numbers of ships from Western Europe to America, as was the number of people moving around. The Aegean people also seemed to maintain the link for precise purposes of particular trade - that of metals. It was not any conscious effort of conquest or colonisation of America but of getting in and taking what was valuable for them. Copper +Tin = Bronze
A completely different layout.
no corn found in eastern hemishpere
I'm skeptical.
Nice.
You make the supposition that there should had been huge numbers of Greek settlers there and that there should be a huge transatlantic commerce. Which needs not be the case. Greeks were few in numbers and then they were going to America for a precise purpose : to upkeep a trade-route of metals mainly copper & tin as well as gold or silver. They did not seem that interested in food commerce - America back then did not produce large quantities that could be exported.
You listen to Coast to Coast AM to much which is also based on "Pseudeo Science".
you forgot about the purhepecha people (my people) from western mexico who were very famous for their metal workings too, other than that great video
Like 1000x
A lot of items there confused with other cultures. We know what was in those mounds.
cool homie
This is something we cannot answer but like with all other things, the first utilisation occured several millenia before the era we find the first attested usage. I.e. currently we find the earliest findings of usage of metal around 10,000 BC. Which means that easily usage of metal could had been developed several millenia before that. Do not forget that some 12,000 years ago the cataclysm occured and during that era we find few things in general, stones included...
Whats the name of the sing Dope Af
Ghost Dance by Cusco
First off those statues are not copper it is stone so about half of everything you did show it is not a metal it's stone or clay. Second all the metal that was shown was not ancient American. Stop trying to deceive people Mormon
magnificent people.I always liked indians better than cowboys even though in the movies they were dipicted as the bad guys. when playing with toys in the 80's me and my brother would fight over who was the cowboy cos none of us wanted to.Maybe my physical resemblance made me identify, we are half african half european.
This vid has its moments, basic display of artifacts with a little information has a place, no question. Unfortunately it is limited in its explanatory background on the technical advancements of the various cultures. As one goes farther south it becomes superior: The Mayans and the Inca produced remarkable works of art, in particular using gold. The Northern American Indians, far less so -- it is unclear, at best, whether they were able to smelt any metal at all. The copper age is still technically part of the Stone Age ("Chalcolithic" means copper-stone after all, and is defined as the later Neolithic). They did great work for what it was, but it is not necessary to exaggerate the accomplishments of the indigenous population of the Americas, it can be appreciated even if it was more primitive than what the Europeans had on hand when they arrived.
Stow your eurocentric attitudes of hierarchy.
I beg to differ on the smelting by the Inca. Its clear that the Mapuche learned this from Mitmae groups such as the Diaguitas who learned it from the Inca. It only became a bit more sophisticated after the arrival of the Spanish.
I wonder why some of the "copper" or "bronze" stuff are made from stone or pottery (I cannot tell from the picture but I guess it is pottery) around 4:30 Lot of bullshit in this video.
+Telemnar númenórëan
It's copper, I made a mistake and based my labeling on a site and amateur archaeologist, and the site doesn't exist anymore. However, that picture shows artifacts made of copper.
+Thomas Oklahoma The vasse or whatever it is on 4:30 is clearly not metal since piece was chipped off. Metal wouldn't do it. There are more artifact which are made of pottery but I cannot prove it because the pictures doesn't have really good quality. At least some of the bronze/copper stuff looks like european ones. I would also say that decoration of some artifact doesn't fit the culture. the !calendar" shown in mayan intro is anything but mayan. This together makes this video full of lies.
Is that firesteel at 2:20? hardly copper or bronze
Telemnar númenórëan
copper can be chipped, especially if it's hundreds of years old. Stone masons can't shape most rocks like that into a vase, unless it's jade or a few other types. When hammered copper is heated, it can easily be shaped into vases, cups and small statues
Are you referring to the bronze gears? I've only come across speculations from historians and archaeologist from a Website that doesn't exist anymore either, on that site they speculated that the gears where used for calender's and mechanical experiments. But other historians and archaeologist continue to study and speculate what these bronze gears were used for. To me, they were experimenting with gears. Hey, if you got a better source, than present it, and I may use it in my next metallurgy video that will replace this one.
Telemnar númenórëan
Look some of the artifacts were made after Columbus so of course some of the tools, weapons and silverware was influenced by th technology that developed in Southern Eurasia.
"At least some of the bronze/copper stuff looks like european ones"? What are you trying to suggest, that it had to be europeans who created these artifacts? I hope you're not one of those Eurocentrics revisionist history types. BTW, people learn from other cultures and so did the Europeans who never began metallurgy on their own, Metallurgy began in the Middle East, Indian and China some thousands of years ago.
Thomas Oklahoma I'm not talking about how they were made.
I suggest those artifact were made by Europeans. In Europe, found in Europe and never been in America. If you can give me reliable source that those artifact were found in America, that would be great.
What you are saying about European metalurgy is missleading. Metalrugy was not invented in Europe but indoeuropeans - modern european populations - did bring metalurgy to Europe. It is much more complicated than you maybe think it is :) I also compared them to central europen items, not mediterran.
What?..that's what I been saying all along
No disrespect, but song totally reminds me of Donkey Kong.
That does not mean that Greeks established the first American indigenous cultures but that through established traderoutes they might had influenced them at some point one way or another - how much or how little this is of course another question, but the reality is there : that the American continent in the Bronze Age (3000 BC to 1200 BC) was certainly linked through traderoutes to the Mediterranean world.
the natives had corn before the greeks existed all they had metal work before they existed
This metal work of indigenous people in North and South America is quite interesting,But with the exception of an ideographic system used by the Mayans and their neighbors near the Yucatan peninsula, none of the native languages of America had a writing system. So it's difficult to learn how they developed the technology. There is some similarity to works in South America with works done in the middle east and China, and there are Chinese researchers that claim that work came from China explorers in the ancient world.(Other theories exist too)
starview1 That's an interesting theory about the Chinese. Is there anything to support it?
YangSunWoo There is, (and with a bit of speculation) based on things like cutting marks (etchings) In any event it takes a significant amount of research, and best guessing to try to come up with explanations for some of the truly odd things that are apart of the ancient past. Some things are really quite extraordinary, and conventional thinking just doesn't get to satisfactory answers. Here's a part of the list of research sites, note the bibliographies and further reading sections, as they to are required reading. Thanks for your interest,prepare to do some reading.
www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/trade/hd_trade.htm
depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/romchin1.html
humansarefree.com/2013/12/the-amazing-connections-between-inaca.html
news.sciencemag.org/archaeology/2015/02/mysterious-indo-european-homeland-may-have-been-steppes-ukraine-and-russia
starview1 Thank you!
YangSunWoo No problem. Just as an aside, be careful to sort the wheat from the chaff . I try to use genuine sources of the antiquities, but occasionally hit pseudoscience, and there's alot of that (pseudoscience on You tube,which I'm sure U are aware.Thanks and good hunting!
+starview1 I would just chalk it up to parallel development. There are only so many ways to do something and like they say, Great minds think alike.
Supposably many ancient people (Phoenicians,Egyptians,Greeks,etc.) were traveling to America and back so apparently it was no big secret that many people knew that there was another continent to the west.That knowledge would've been passed down generation by generation and by the time of Columbus it would've been common knowledge(specially to sailors) don't you think?..but it wasn't since Columbus thought he had landed in the indies when he accidently "discovered America".
Yet to answer your story there is a long list of archaeological items found in America (from North to South) which relate directly to Bronze Age Greeks, to Phoenicians and then to Hellenistic and Roman times Greeks/Romans (Greeks manned largely the navies of Romans).
There is no consensus today as most of these findings were found by non-archaeologists and the conext (precise place etc.) is cast in doubt while for others that were found they were archived without developing a theory around.
In this reality, during the Bronze Age, either the Mediterraneans would had gone to America or the local Americans would have travelled to the Mediterranean for that exchange.
ALL evidence (and I can make it VERY long here) shows that it was the Mediterranean people (most precisely Aegean people, i.e. the ancestors of 1st millenium Greeks) who went there.
Now on the question ''who influenced whom'' the answer is simple : influence went from the most progressive to the most regressive.
Talk don't just show pictures
Mediterranean ancient material HAS been excavated in North and South America - though for many any other explanation would do than the much-hated reality for them Mediterranean (as European) presence.
South American artwork bears extreme similarities with Bronze Age Aegean one and this has been pinpointed even by amateurs at one sight. Google, there is plenty on that stuff. Nothing is accidental on this earth. There were working links between the continents in the Bronze Age.
Well the reality is that there was influence. During the Bronze Age there were established traderoutes by Greeks linking the Mediterranean to North, Central and South America. The links are proven even through biology (e.g. there have been found fossilised insects living only in tobacco plants in fossilized stocks at Thera island in Greece).
There are similarities of the pre-Aztecan/pre-Incas indigenous American cultures with Bronze Age Greek cultures are visible even today.
not really all these invention were native american homegrown
However, there are traces that scientifically prove that links (frequent or rare, but certainly active links!) existed between the Aegean and America. In Thera, the archaeological dig unearthed mid - Bronze Age silos that had fossilied food-stocks and among that were found insects that could had only come from America as they live only on tobacco leafs. There is no possibility these same insects were found anyway in southwestern Europe let alone Greece as there was no tobacco plants in Europe.
no greek dna in native americans
I doubt all that knowledge they supposably had about the Americas would be lost when so many people from different ancient cultures supposably had knowledge of it.I think that's a big hole in your eurocentric theory but we can go on for ever and never come to an agreement so let's just agree to disagree.
Take care
What pseudoscience books are you worshipping? Please tell.
Pseudoscience = Eurocentric?
Someone's got a fantasy world all of their own, it seems :)