Sharpening Single Bevel Knives (A Demonstration)- Japanese Knife Imports
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video, I demonstrate the basic concepts of sharpening single bevel knives. We go over the steps involved in sharpening, hamaguri edges, the importance of shinogi lines, uraoshi sharpening, and more. This is intended to be used in conjunction with our other videos. We hope you find it helpful. As always, please let us know if you have any questions.
-Jon
www.JapaneseKnifeImports.com
Jon@japaneseknifeimports.com - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Brilliant. Everything that my Japanese head chef taught me 30 years ago. Best sharpening video I've watched so far.
glad you enjoyed... thanks for taking the time to watch
Love the videos, keep up the good work. I sharpened my first single bevel knife after watching your other video on single bevel knives. It had been dull for years because I didn't know how to resharpen it, now its back to new, maybe better.
Beautiful final stone, clear and concise video as always.
Outstanding video mate. Great narration and while giving a great demonstration. Nice work.
EXCELLENT PRESENTATION. Thanks for taking the time and posting 😁
Thanks! This was very helpful for my reed-making knife for bassoon!
This an excellent video demo!! Thank you!
This is the best Single bevel sharpening video ever!
Thanks so much.
Jon, thanks so much for the video. You have the passion and the generosity to share. We will be in LA area this xmas and would like to visit the store.
This channel has been great. I bought my first yanagiba about a week ago and the man at the shop highly recommended this channel. I am very familiar with sharpening my chef knives (teppan chef) but now that I'm doing sushi I am really appreciating your tips.
Loads of good info. Kudos.
Best video ive seen about the topic
THANK YOU nor explaining the convex edge for Japanese knives. Jso many people think this a ROUNDED grind of shorts. Ots just a few grind angles that flow seamlessly. Love you guys!
Because thats what a compound is.
A bunch of angles blended.
Very useful! Thank you!
NIce demonstration, now I know I won't be having any single bewels to home :D Definitely need master grade sharpening skills to get the job done.
Oh right, the site where I bought it were actually selling it as a single bevel.well thanks for the advice, I'll have another go at it tomorrow. I think I'll practice my sharpening skills on that knife before I invest in a better one. Thanks again for your advice and the videos.
Really solid video 💪💪👍👍
Great video Jon! have always been scared to sharpen single bevel knives i think i will try to fix my usuba now haha
I have only seen Bill at knife merchants mention such micro bevel not in detail as to how to achieve that. The way you shift your weight to hit that shinogi line. I’m just speechless. You may be the only one person I’ll say puts shame to Tormek t8. Heck even better than Murray Cutter 17 generation yoshimoto blade smith in sharpening.
Mastery at work. Thank you so much for the lesson worth every seconds for years
I’ll subscribe with pleasure wanna aborb all you can share. I was thinking Tormek for badly damaged blade but whetstone is where I’ll always stay.
Very good video.
great video! thanks so much
Excellent. Thanks !!
Legend! Thankyou!
Just watched uraoshi video, and it quite clearly answered my question however, I do have another question. So as I have seen, the general process seems to be sharpen higher on the major bevel, lower on the major bevel, uraoshi, then burr removal. Since you emphasized that uraoshi can easily be over done, would you recommend that uraoshi is done every time one sharpens their blade? Of course, I know this can be a highly subjective question, but just wondering.
Thank you so much!
very few of those are actually knife craftsmen... and if you're looking for a traditional knife, i would say take a look at our gesshin hide line... its my personal favorite.
love the video so helpfull really apprechade the time and love you put into it.
but i still have one question, what forgemaster would you tell ppl to go to if tey are looking for a awesome traditional japanese knife
Haiku Damascus
Kasumi
Global
Wasabi
Kai Shun
Tojiro DP 3 layers
Tojiro Damaskus Pro
Hattori
Tamahagane
Tamahagane San
Nagomi Damast
Kyocera Keramik
Kamo Katsuyasu
Kamo Shirou
Takefu
TonTenKan
Kato Hiroshi
Saji Takeshi
Masami Azai
Kitaoka Hideo thanks so much
what kind of yanagiba do you have? (brand/line?)
my pleasure... i'll get back to you on that later today
I just bought my first Yanagiba. I was wanting to know if, even though it is razor sharp now, to sharpen it as you do in this video to change the type of edge it has????
Any additional advice for restoring a polished out shinogi? Hissatsu blade? Thanks. I pretty much polished out the shinogi and the yokote. Oops
Hello
Very good video. But I have a question on single bevel sharpening. Have bought some really inexpensive (15 $) yanagiba in order to train on single bevel sharpening. But even if I try to follow your video I do not manage to got it arm hair cutting sharp. It seem like that I am not able to get rid of the burr on the flat back side. Do you think that the steel is to cheap in order to get it sharp, or do I have to practice more? I can get a cheap double bevel knife razor sharp with no problem.
you should have access to a number of good knives out there... we can ship there too, but i know it can be expensive. Is there a place you can go and see the knives in person?
hi jon..what an educational video! totally love it. i wonder what you can do if you dont have the muddy stone ? i just got my single bevel deba knife, and ur video has been the most helpful one, except i dont have the muddy stone. thanks in advance.
Muddy stones are mostly an aesthetic thing... any decent stone should leave a more than functional edge with good sharpening technique.
Jon, I sent you a few emails with pictures attached. I tool them from a couple different angles on my phone. I hope they are good enough quality for you to see what you need. Just so you know to be looking for them. Once again, thank you!!!
you took off the sharpie with a medium grit stone, do you usually do this and the other steps just once or more times?
How do you suggest a sharpen the yanagiba that i have? or can i still sharpen it in the same way you do here?
what grit is the natural stone u did the micro bevel on?
Nice! Great video with a good info!
I have a Yanagi (Sakai Takayuki White steel) and I'll like to practice but in the process sharpening and polishing the blade what stones you recommend from your store? Specially for a contrast between the jigane and the hagane.
It realy depends on the amount of effort you want to put in, budget constraints, and skill level. I feel like this probably needs a more in depth conversation, so if you would like, please feel free to email me at Jon@japaneseknifeimports.com and we can go from there.
What level grit of sharpening stones are you using?
Blade flat and parallel to the stone during uraoshi?
I tried the sharpie technique on my yanagiba and at the beginning phase of sharpening, I cannot seem to get the sharpening technique correct. (I am incompetent, apparently x_x). I have removed all sharpie marks save for the area in the beginning of sharpening. Any thoughts or methods to help me out?
what kind of knife are you sharpening?
That finishing stone is very thick! I am curious about that. Is that line just a natural coloration or do you have it laminated to another stone? I love the slurry you got from the dark stone. I am dying to go to Japan where I can see some natural stones in person, but I am on the other side of the world and flights are not cheap. I use Choseras and Shaptons now primarily.
+mmschweizer its a completely natural stones... the lines are all part of it. Its one of the more expensive stones in my personal collection, but its so much fun. That size is totally unnecessary, but i'm dorky about this kind of stuff, so i had to have it :)
my pleasure
So with the two bevels being sort of blended together, would that make them a sort of convex grind (but only on one side)? Thank you for the video! Super helpful 🙏
yeah... a compound bevel blended into a convex-like grind
Does the uraoshi sharpening scratch the knife?
Hi John, one of my yanagi had some micro chips which stones do you use to fix chips on knife.
depends on how big the chips are... you want to shoot me an e-mail with some pictures? jon@japaneseknifeimports.com
I've a question about the uraoshi.
Is it normal to have knives with an uneven shaped uraoshi? I have a knife with a strange uraoshi where the tip uraoshi (front 2 cm) is thicker than the rest of the blade, so it looks more like a bottleneck than a gentle Λ. I don't have this experience with my old company Aritsugu or my Sakai Takayuki (therefore I don't think it's a technique problem), so I've been wondering is it an imperfection on the part of the knife maker?
Yeah... creating a nice and even ura is rather difficult, so you see many products (often less expensive, but not always) with high and low spots on the ura. Also, various craftsmen have different ways of doing this so you will see different shapes from time to time. Anyways, it's a rather common imperfection, but if you want to e-mail me pictures of the knife in question, I'd be happy to take a look.
Great video, great info.
Can you please tell me if a Tojiro Shirogami white 2 Gyutoh 210mm 50/50 ratio ,wich comes with a microbevel works ok for most kitchen jobs including veggies or should i thin out the micro bevel in order to get less resistance when cutting.
I would like to know if in real use, if i eliminate the microbevel will the edge stand ok or will it chip or get dull verry fast.
I am sharpening on whetstones and i'm just a normal home cook.
Fabian... shoot me an email if you can- Jon@japaneseknifeimports.com. The answers I want to provide are a bit longer than what makes sense for the comments section in youtube.
man... you should have seen the one i fixed today... it was a beastly repair. I keep forgetting to take before pics like an idiot though.
yokote requires great pressure control and angle control... the tip adjustment is different. The tip sharpening is separated into two parts at different angles of approach. There's no easy way to do it... just practice.
it only has a bevel on one side...but the back flat...so do I just treat the one side as if I'm sharpening a double bevel but just sharpen it on one side?
This looks very difficult compared to double bevel sharpening, definitely need to get some skills before attempting this
Honestly, there are parts of it that I find easier, in the sense that its easier to feel what is going on what what is right or wrong, but there are more potential areas for mistakes for sure. If you have any questions as you get rolling with this, please don't hesitate to reach out and bug us with any questions.
how many times do you repeat this process?
Hello John. first of all, Great videos! love your channel. By the way, I am having few troubles with sharpening ura.
I found it is impossible to remove burr of ura when ura is flat on the stone.I spent like 3 mins to remove burr of ura, but nothing changed. But when I give slight angle (like 5 to 10 degree), burr is cleanly removed.
I am using cheap tojiro yanagiba (around 30 dollars) and some people state that if you sharpen cheap and soft stainless steel yanagiba, you need to give between 5 to 10 degree angle for uraoshi sharpening.
Is that true or did i just ruin my knife?
Thanks a lot!
Thanks so much. If you could e-mail me some pictures of your knife, i'd be more than happy to help you try to figure out whats going on here. My e-mail address is Jon@japaneseknifeimports.com
“Is that true or did I just ruin my knife” LOL, great question haha
Jon, do honyaki blades have the same compound bevel?
Joe M depends on the craftsmen, but for the most part, yes.
Hi jon , should i sharpen my knife start with the nakato / medium stone on weekly sharpening or shiageto / finishing stone is fine?
Also , i feel like my uraoshi line is little bit too much , should i only sharpen my uraoshi on the last step with shiageto as i don't want to do too much uraoshi sharpening anymore ?
It depends on what kind of condition your knife is in. I feel like if youre doing a single bevel knife weekly and you use it every day, you will need a medium grit stone. If you are doing it every day, you may be ok with just a finishing stone. On the ura, would you mind e-mailing me some pictures? Jon@japaneseknifeimports.com
What grit stone do you do the microbevel on? Do you just use the highest grit stone available? Or do you want to use a particular type of stone?
the simple answer is the highest girt you have, but sometimes that can be too high. You want it to be a finishing stone for sure, but aside from that, edge preference can have a lot of impact on what you choose to do. Ideally, harder stones will work better for microbevels than softer ones. And, also remember that micorbevels are not necessary 100% of the time. They can be very helpful in specific cases, but overuse seems to be a common problem nowadays. Fee free to bug me with any followup questions.
my pleasure... if you're still having trouble after new years, shoot me an e-mail or give me a call at the store and i'll see if i can help out a bit more
What do you do when the blade has a Yokote?
Are you managing the angle of the knife or just putting presure on the bevel that you want to sharpen and this way creating the correct angle ?
not exactly... there is a bit more than pressure involved. But it is a feeling thing. You can measure if you feel the need, and there are smartphone apps that help with that, but i dont think they are necessary, as long as you have a decent idea of what various angles look/feel like.
Japanese Knife Imports I will practice. Thanks for the video.
This is cool and all, but honestly after watching this I'm like:fk this I'm just gonna get a sujihiki
Hello Jon,
The quality of all of your videos are extraordinary!
I do have a question about the hamaguri edge. When you did the top bevel (Shinogi line down to the lamination line) I was surprised to see sharpie was removed from the lower bevel (lamination line down to the edge). Because the hamaguri is a compound bevel, shouldn’t the sharpie only be removed from one side of the lamination line at a time? Obviously the sharpie says otherwise, but I don’t understand what is happening.
Sure... knife grinds arent always perfect, so you will see some variation. This was a yanagiba that i ground as part of my training in Japan, and clearly my grinding was not the best. You will almost always see some inconsistencies in terms of the grind. In an ideal and perfect world, you would be correct though. I just dont often see ideal situations. Anyways, sometimes the first part of sharpening (Shinogi line down) will look like this, but i can correct some of that in my next step when i sharpen near the edge. Does that make sense?
Thanks Jon, that does make sense!
This video makes me a lot more comfortable with eventually getting a sharpening system (from JKI) and trying to sharpen my yanagiba
@@BBB_025 thanks... feel free to bug me with questions anytime
Do you offer sharpening services? I have a fairly valuable Japanese style tanto that I want to get sharpened, but I don't want to damage it as I've never sharpened a knife that doesn't have a secondary bevel.
normally, yes. However, as noted at the top of our website currently, all service-based offerings, including sharpening, are currently on hold. We are just a bit too busy to take on new work right now. Really sorry about that.
Great video John, you are the best, but quite frankly I think I will stay away from single bevel knives because the sharpening seems very much more complex than double bevel.
Its a little bit more complicated, but in reality its not that hard. Anyways, if you change your mind, know that we are always here to be a resource for you along the way.
Hi Jon, just out of curiosity, have you sharpened a maguro bocho before?
yes... they are quite time consuming and tricky, mostly as a function of how they need to be held while sharpening. In all honesty, not something i enjoy doing, but certainly something i am capable of doing.
Most yanagiba already ship with this kind of edge geometry
Hello what are your wheat stones and the base that you use and where can I purchase them
Ty
almost every stone we use is on our website... the container we use is a 4 in deep hotel pan, the bridge we use is called the stone bridge on our site, and the holder is the large stone holder on our site.
What grit are you using? Great video btw!!
in this video is appears as though i was using a gesshin 2k (medium grit stone) and the gesshin 6k (finishing stone)
hamaguri edges offer better edge strength, resistance to chipping, better edge retention, and better food release
Can I just send you my knives? That looks like a lot of work! good video
Yeah... we have people send in knives for thinning and sharpening all of the time... feel free to e-mail me with questions if you have any Jon@JapaneseKnifeImports.com
what do you mean by that?
Hey, I don't know if you still answer questions, but I could use your help. Thanks for your videos, really did help me a lot to get better and inspired me. I bought an Sakai Takayuki Homura Kengata Gyuto 225mm. There are some videos on that knife. I was wondering how to sharpen it due to its unique form. Do I have to treat it like a double bevel knife? Since it is 50/50? Or do I have to sharpen it like a single bevel knife? Hope you can help me :) Best regards
If you want to shoot me an e-mail at jon@japaneseknifeimports.com, i'd be happy to help. Just send over some pictures so i can see what kind of condition its in and what has been done to it so far. Thanks.
-Jon
I would have to question why you would purchase a $1000+ blade and not be able to answer that question - a 50:50 edge functionally should remain a DOUBLE BEVEL EDGE, for the best/ideal performance!
Thanks for the video, I tend to sharpen debas this way but I end up losing some of the beautiful distinction between hard and soft steel so I am wondering is it strictly a stone thing or could it be technique ? I personally think the most beautiful knives have that perfect contrast towards the edge so it annoy me ! Two are white #2 and the third is blue #1 steel
Its a function of stone choice as well as a bit of technique. What stones are you using?
Well I’ve experimented amongst my stones I’ve found the shapton glass stones to be the worst at contrast and the suehiro rika to provide the best contrast which surprised me as I thought the muddiness of the suehiro would polish higher up but I have a lot of stones probably too many I find Naniwa stones have too much polish above the 3k so that’s no good. My natural stones also aren’t as good as the suehiro is with contrast
yeah... harder synthetic stones tend to not do quite as well for contrast relative to softer muddier stones. There are some synthetic stones that do a really excellent job with that kind of contrast though... for example, we have a jinzo aoto that is designed to leave that kind of nice contrast. There are others as well. Not all natural stones will do well for contrast, but there are many that can. But with natural stones, technique (in terms of pressure and water control) come in to play much more. Have you considered using uchigumori finger stones? That might be the easiest way for you to consistently get nice, smooth looking finishes with good contrast. Not the least expensive way, but they work well.
Very good video, i just bought a Gladiator Dalstrong yanagiba and can't make it be as sharp as a double beveled, Thoughts on this knife? And any advice for sharpening it? It recommends you to sharp from 16 to 18 degrees. Thank you.
I also own a global takohiki if it's more advisable to use however find it very uncomfortable not because of the handle but due to I miss a tip on takohiki knives (bought it because global's yanagiba have a weird shape)
Sadly, its not a knife I have first hand experience with, so its hard to make any comments on it. I have seen it in pictures and a video or two, but thats a hard way to judge a knife. It looked a bit off to me in terms of shape and grind, but thats about the most i can say. Again, sorry about that.
I would probably pick the global over the dalstrong (again, sight unseen, so please keep that in mind), but even that is not a paricularly great single bevel knife. The steel is a bit soft for that kind of geometry, and the grind has some issues as well. Any reason you went with something like that instead of a more tradtional yanagiba or takobiki (i prefer the yanagiba due to the funcational tip, among many other others, for what its worth).?
Yes you are right, I've been testing the dalstrong and it is really bad, it has not even joking 16-18 degrees of sharpen, more like 45 which will never be a razor sharp fine edge, glad I got it for the least price with sales. Ty for your comment and video.
Great video Jon. I had no idea that you sharpen a yanagiba that high up on the blade. If your Yanagiba has a Kasumi finish, is that a concern when sharpening that high or do you just use finger stones to add a new Kasumi? Do you even need that finish?
So, the kasumi finish will be affected. This is not really an issue, though many people prefer to have it look nice. If you're looking to have it look nice/new again, there are a number of ways to do that, varying in cost and ease of application (for lack of a better way of putting it). However, it is important to make sure you sharpen from the shinogi line down, as a function of maintaining a useful cross-sectional geometry that cuts well. Kasumi Finish... necessary, no. Looks great, yes. Bug me if you have any questions about sharpening or kasumi finishes.
Thank you! So you sharpen pretty much only until the you remove all of the blue sharpie from your blade. I am guessing this is only to show the whole area that must be sharpened and not how long you should sharpen the knife or is that long enough on the bevel beneath the shinogi line? and then you continue to sharpen the edge bevel until you raise a burr. Also if you are using a larger progression of stones would you repeat that for every stone or just continue on the edge bevel and the back of the knive as you progress?
The sharpie is just used as a guide to help assist in angle accuracy. The length of time required is dependent on other things. For example, the shinogi line should move up the same amount that the edge will move up. The edge moving up will depend on edge condition (are there chips, etc.) and how small of a burr you can consistently feel. You would ideally use your full stone progression from the shinogi-line down, but that may not be true 100% of the time. I can think of at least a few exceptions, though, they are exceptions rather than the norm.
Ok! I understand. Next question. When I sharpen double edge knives, I raise a burr with the first stone, remove the burr and then continue with edge trailing strokes to refine the edge through a progression of stones. Is that the same idea here or do I continue to raise a burr and remove it through the progression?
Even with double bevel knives, there is some burr formation that happens at each grit until you begin the burr removal process. The goal is to help reduce the size of the burr at each stage until the final step of burr removal. Does that make sense?
Not sure if you will see this but I am having issues with the tiniest of chips in my Deba after cutting multiple fish. They are mostly towards the heel as that is where I am contacting bone but I’ve never run into these micro chips as I am with this new Deba. It’s White #2 steel and a nice knife it’s 7.5mm thick above the heel in the spine so it’s very heavy and proficient at running through fish bones but these darned tiny tiny chips are killing me. Any advice? I’m not a big fan of microbevels across an edge but I’m thinking about putting a steep microbevel just in the first 2 inches of the edge. Thanks!
I’ve been sharpening single bevel knives for a decade now. Not a chef, no crazy usage, just like Japanese knives too much. I have 5 Debas now and find it’s a very different knife because my favorite Deba is AUS8 steel, 165mm long and 6mm thick. I didn’t buy it but the knife is superb and I thought this White 2 knife would match it but the darned chips get in the way. I have 2 blue super Debas that are very nice when entertaining but my workhorse is the knife with to me very mediocre steel.
I know you're not a big fan of microbevels, but they really do help. You dont need to do a lot of them to have them be effective. For example, if they are so pronounced that they take a crazy amount of time to remove in the next sharpening, they were probably too big. In terms of angles, in the 35-40 degree range for a very light stroke or two should do it. If you wanted to do it only near the heel, there are no rules against it :) Some japanese chefs also do a microbevel on the back (ura) near the heel (the last 1-1.5in or so on a 180mm deba for example) and use that for really rough work (i.e. splitting heads). That is an option too, but I really dont like that, and once you do it, going back is really not easy.
Could you what the first and second stones are. for the second, it sounded like you said "Manzanto" but I probably missed that :D. thanks for these excellent videos
Hammer757 Gesshin 2000, Gesshin 6000s, and monzento
Thanks, I actually just found the Monzento just a few minutes after I asked. Sorry!
Hammer757 no prob
Japanese Knife Imports www.knifekits.com/vcom/knife-making-parts-screws-c-60_81.html
is it every sharpie can use or have to buy a special one?
just a regular sharpie will work perfectly
When sharpening a wide bevel, but double bevel knife, would that require the same process highlighted here, just without the uraoshi sharpening? I'm uncertain if I would use a high angle microbevel like in this process with that kind of knife and just treat the lamination line to the edge as the main cutting edge and develop a burr there, or if I would just grind down the wide bevels a bit like the first part of this process focusing pressure near the shinogi line and then do the usual 9-15 degrees or so as you do on most double bevel knives after that little bit of thinning.
Instinct would tell me that a double bevel knife isn't designed to hold an edge that would require an angle so low as to hit the lamination line to the edge, and that just thinning using the wide bevel laid flat as a guide to maintain the original geometry and then putting on the usual double bevel 9-15 degree would make sense, but I'm really not certain of that.
More or less. The microbevel will depend on the steel/heat treatment as well as the overall cross-sectional geometry. Feel free to email me at jon@japaneseknifeimports.com if you want to have a more in-depth conversation about this (you can all call us at the store if that's easier).
@@JKnifeImports Thanks. Will do, next time I check out the store.
Hey Jon, i was wondering what grit the Stones are that you are using?
I just bought a usuba from Miki, (my first single bevel knife) and i've been trying to sharpen it With the instructions in your video, but i cant seen to get it as Sharp as possible. I use a 1000 grit and a 5000 grit stone from naniwa.
Greetings from Holland,
Thijs Toetenel
Vierentwintig Karaat you probably want to start off with a coarser stone on the front side and a medium girt stone on the back for the initial work. Once everything looks good, switch to a finishing stone for the back and a medium grit stone for the front. The a finishing stone for both the front and back. As long as you form an even and consistent burr from heel to tip and then remove it, your knife will be sharp.
I also have a 400 grit stone. So i Should use that for the front? And do you suggestie getting a finishing stone With a higher grit like 10.000?
Vierentwintig Karaat Yes... i think it will help speed up the process of cleaning up the high and low spots and form the burr more quickly. Just be careful to not overdo it, and make sure you are being angle consistent. With the higher grit stones, its not necessary. Some people like to go that high, but most do not. 6-8k is about perfect for most.
Hi, thanks for doing these videos. They helped me a lot with sharpening my knife with a stone for the first time. The only trouble I had was the bevel on my knife is very small so it's hard to see the angles on it, have you got any tips that could help me cope with this? Thanks again.
Would it be weird not to make a micro bevel? I really don't prefer using them, but I am not too familiar with my new single bevel knife.
Max Savino not at all... many people choose to sharpen that way. It will be just a bit more delicate that way.
+Japanese Knife Imports So I took upon my self to do my new small okeya Deba with this process. I have some good sharpening experience under my belt as it is.
After I thinned the knife, and then formed my bur doing the bevel "compound" like you suggest, I then turned the knife over to do some back side sharpening.
I did just a few quick light strokes on my 6k stone like you showed here, but just that alone was enough to raise a burr on the bevel side.... so I then did some stropping strokes on the bevel side and AGAIN I got a burr on the back... so I did the back side again and ANOTHER BURR! I am using light pressure and only on the forward stroke.
What am I doing wrong here? I've never had a Japanese knife with white steel hold a burr like this... they usually come off right away considering how hard and brittle the steel is. I am trying to do this WITHOUT a micro bevel. Any suggestions? Thanks
So if I understand correctly, not having a “muddy-natural stone,” I can use my Cerax #1000 splash stone for the “clam shell” portion of the sharpening?
for sure... thats a nice and muddy medium grit stone... you can use a finishing stone too if you would like.
Thanks so much in advance! I consider myself an above-average double-bevel sharpener, should I try this (single bevel sharpening), on my Masamoto KS Kamagata Usuba, or send it in when it need sharpening?!?!?
WoW, thanks so much for the rapid-response Jon❣️My finishing stone is the King S-1 #6000 - so could I use both, #1000 -> #6000 or would that be overkill - which would you use - my gut is saying the “muddier” #1000.
@@Chihuahuauno1 I think you should be ok to try it yourself. Sharpening should, in reality, be something we can all do. Sharpening services exist for more serious problems or for people who don't have time to or don't want to learn sharpening.
@@Chihuahuauno1 just try the blending on the 6k... as long as you've done good work before that point, it should be totally fine
Hi John, would you sharpen a deba the same way?
yup... single bevel knives are all sharpened this way
@@JKnifeImports John I can't thank you enough for the response as well as the amazing learning material you've put out. Hope you have been doing well and healthy!
the sharpie can be reapplied before each stone if you find it more helpful (it often is a good idea as you get started)... for normal sharpening, i usually use a coarse, medium, and fine stone (sometimes more than 1 fine stone). Outside of uraoshi and microbevels which are only done on a finishing stone, the rest of the sharpening process should be done on each stone.
removing sharpie is just part of it... you should also be looking for burr development when sharpening the edge, even raising of the shinogi line when sharpening that area, making sure both move at the same rate, checking to make sure you have a nice even scratch pattern along the blade and that the scratch pattern reflects the kind of stone and grit level you are using. What specifically is wrong with yours right now? Not sharp? Doesnt look nice? Both?
Essentially both.
I have a Mercer 12" Yanagiba. It's stainless steel
I know im quiet late😅 anyways, what grid is the first stone?
that one is a gesshin 2000 stone
I am asking as an experienced specialist at what angle to sharpen single- and double-sided Japanese knives because I have such knives.
single bevel knives essentially have the angle built into the wide bevel, so try to follow that as a guide. Double bevel knives are far more flexible. Generally, angles from 10-15 degrees per side are a safe bet range. The higher you go (i.e. closer to 15 or even beyond that) the more durable the knife will be but the less sharp it will feel. The lower you are (i.e. closer to 10 or even lower), the sharper it will feel, but the more brittle it will be.
What stone are you working on? Lease tell me
i shot this a long time ago, so i'm working just from what i can see in the video. The first stone appears to be a gesshin 2000 grit stone. The second one is either a gesshin 4000 or 8000. The third is a natural monzento. And the fourth is a shobu suita.
So the two "styles" of sharpening a yanagiba that i've found here on the youtube is either your style where you focus on the shinogi line first than the edge creating a small arcing bevel between the two and the other style is a more simple style where they dont bother with that step and just does a straight bevel between the shinogi and the edge, The uraoshi is done the same way in both styles. As im having a really difficult time finding that shinogi angle im scared that i will undercut the angle and fuck the knife up is the second style of sharpening worse in any way?
they are different for sure, and both have their strengths and weaknesses. The second method you're describing is called "beta-togi"... "beta" (pronounced like the "be" in "best" and "ta" in "talk") is onomatopoeia for the sound of laying something down flat on something else.... consists of laying the bevel flat on the stone entirely. This kind of bevel will feel a bit sharper, and requires a bit less technical know-how to be able to do effectively, but the edge is much more brittle, food release is not quite as good, and the shinogi line and edge geometry are linked. Hamaguri edges, like what I teach, will not feel quite as sharp (but still will feel extremely sharp... we're talking small differences here), but will be more tough and durable, will have a longer lasting edge, better food release, and allows for independent control of the shinogi line and edge, which can be very helpful. Neither is wrong. Almost every craftsman I've ever met in Japan recommends hamaguri edges (I honestly can't think of one who didn't recommend it, but I don't want to say 100% just in case I forgot someone), but they also understand that some people feel more comfortable with beta-togi. Most chefs who have not had any professional sharpening training will use beta-togi. This is often for no other reason than just not knowing about hamaguri, though I've got a few friends who enjoy the feeling of the edge from beta-togi a bit more, and are capable enough to not have chipping issues with this style of sharpening (as the edge will be more brittle). Does that make sense?
Wow thanks for the thorough answer. If you dont mind, i just recently (2h ago) tried to sharpen my yanagiba the way you showed in the video, the blade got sharper than it was out of the box, however i kinda butchered the finish and the look of the knife. (please dont take this as if im blaming you)
If you dont mind, could you maybe take a moment and look at some picture i took of the result and maybe give me some advice on how to turn the knife back to something beautiful again? The stones i use where the only one i have a shapton pro 2000 and a shapton pro 8000. Pictures; imgur.com/a/hNPxLDz
Thanks in advance
looks like you didnt spend enough time to remove the previous scratches (from the finish of the new and unsharpened knife) before moving on.... a lot of those splotches are from the original kasumi finish. A bit more time should clean that up. I often use a coarse stone for this, as its faster. But if you arent comfortable with sharpening quite yet, the medium grit range will be ok... it will take a bit longer, but thats ok. Also, the shapton stones won't leave contrast between the 2 steels, but that is ok.
Thanks for the advice, i was kinda scared about removing too much material but i'll go at it tomorrow and see if i can fix it :)
realistically, you dont have to remove any more metal, if you're ok with the way the knife looks. There's nothing wrong with it functionally, and the scratches will come out over time, so no need to rush. If the look bothers you enough, then feel free. Also, i noticed some scratching above the shinogi line, so be careful about rotating over the shinogi line a bit more when you sharpen next.
What was that really muddy stone?
its been a while since i shot this, but i think i was using a gesshin 2k, followed by a gesshin 4k, monzento (the super muddy dark brown one), and then a shobudani suita
do I need the mud stone? Was unclear - I just have 1k and 6k
you're fine with the 1k/6k
you dont press on the knife as you push it toward yourself?
ideally, you want to employ edge trailing pressure on the bevel size and edge leading pressure on the ura (back side)
natural stones dont really operate in the same way as synthetic stones with regard to grit ratings... lets just say its pretty high grit finishing stone (its my shobudani renge suita)
how do you keep your hands and nails so clean despite sharpening so much?
Lol… used to washing hands a lot from being in kitchens… use soap with abrasive and nail brushes
@@JKnifeImports i also work in a kitchen which is why im very self aware of the staining on my fingers lol. thanks though, will have to keep a brush in the bag then!
are you 100% sure the back is flat? Honestly, i would have to see the knife to figure out the best way to sharpen it. If you want to shoot me an e-mail with some pictures, i think i should be able to help. You can find my e-mail address on our website JapaneseKnifeImports.