Here's the Problem With the George Floyd Protests...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 เม.ย. 2022
- Watch the full episode - • The Uncomfortable Trut...
Dr. Glenn Loury and I discuss the Pareto principle, the economics of inequality, PC culture, climate change, race in America, IQ and The Bell Curve, intelligence vs. wisdom, AA meetings, Christianity, and more.
Dr. Glenn Loury is an American economist, academic, and author. In 1982, he became the first African American tenured professor of economics at Harvard. Among Dr. Loury’s published works are The Anatomy of Racial Inequality and Race, Incarceration, & American Values. He was elected president of the Eastern Economics Association in 2013 and received the Bradley Prize in 2022.
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The Anatomy of Racial Inequality: amazon.com/Anatomy-Racial-Ine...
Race, Incarceration, and American Values:
amazon.com/gp/product/B08BT4W...
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@@dustinM613 You eloquently spoke my sentiments exactly. 👍💪
[TH-cam deleted this comment because it contained Truth about George Floyd]
@@geneticsmatter3834 Have you thought about this: Mr. Peterson only discusses things that he's spent years researching, conversing with experts and really working to wrap his head around. Maybe he isn't discussing the topic you want him to because he doesn't feel well versed in it? Just a thought...
@@geneticsmatter3834 well if it's not in his interest then maybe thnk about it again
The George Floyd stuff was honestly just a giant case study on human response when Confirmation Bias sets in.
I agree. Confirmation of a fact
@@davidkinoti4051 And what was this fact?
You’re being delusional. So what the government secretly told this cop to kill Floyd? Come on kid get with reality, it’s not a conspiracy.
@@davidkinoti4051 that fentanyl is lethal?
Oh boy. I really wanna hear what this fact is.
Nearly all the people that called the protest mostly peaceful didn't have them in their neighborhood.
An exception being Los Angeles. They rioted around Beverly Hills, Melrose, and West LA. They didn’t do it in the poor areas like they did back in the ‘92 LA Riots thankfully, even though those areas became more gentrified.
@@umiluv
I saw the Beverly hills Police run them out of the Rich big Millionaires homes. The same day. The Police ran the Protesters out quickly in Rich home areas in LA. That's not me saying this. I saw it filmed by a person filming. Not big media showing at news time.
Exactly!
@@umiluv Gentrification is going far you'd be surprised. Feels like I'm being kicked out of Idaho because they won't raise wages and people from outside states have jobs from home that pay a lot and they can easily afford a home here. Since my state is beautiful and offers just as much as California just no beaches, it's become gentrified since the locals can't afford it. Really is a shame but I've noticed its not just Idaho. This all happened in places that are near California. Happened to Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Nevada and Idaho.
@@Tokomi As in prices for groceries are going up? What changed to become more expensive that it is difficult to afford?
If the world was as those two intelligent gentlemen, this planet will be a lot better.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. If you haven't noticed, there's a lot of conflict on Earth.
He says it best. Dissecting complex problems is difficult and most people today don't want that. They want easy.
The black "gentleman" called George Floyd a "gentleman", LOL
@@AngriestAmerican Tell that to our Founding Fathers. Even the Bible says there is a time for Peace and a time for War. Only a weak pacifist believes what you said.
Your statement doesn't make sense
There's still empty lots where burnt buildings used to be and no one wants to replace around my city. That self destruction just bred bitterness, and all that money raised never touched the poor and needy.
Sure that money touched the poor and needy, I mean look at all the mansions that money bought some poor black women to live in!
The money bought mansions for the communist 'leaders' of that rat gang.
@@keithsj10
I see public transit buses in my area. Not state were this all happened. With the big add areas on side of buss. With big support to BLM. I look at this public transit bus. And all I can think of is the million dollar homes that the BLM Leadership bought with the Donated funds, that were as everyone thought to go to change Police community Policing. Training if you will
Have not heard of any money Donated fixing the problem. Just 3 African American Female Drinking champagne talking all gangster like. Laughing having a good old time. With video equipment filming them. All payed for by Donation. Are State is investigating the Funds of BLM, yet are public bus's have big reader boards on side of them. Saying support BLM.
I ask were is the Accountability for all these Funds. The Leadership of BLM needs a MLK type person. This just spending the Donated money's on self serving Leadership. Just Destroy's any messages they have. There Protest from now on, are a lost cause.
Buying Large Mansions, never gets old.
It'd be like rebuilding in a flood plain after you're washed out. There will just be more riots in those areas in the future, as ginned-up riots are politically useful. You'd be looted and torched again and again.
You can hear the genuine care and concern in Dr. Loury's voice. May God bless and protect those coming together to discuss where we're at and where we are heading.
racism is a democrat conspiracy theory
The fact that you can't have an opinion on black America without being black is the problem. If you don't have that skin pigment your thoughts and perspective arent real or valuable. Sad day..
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Amen.
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The L.A. riots after the Rodney King verdict turned out to be have some of the most pronounced effects on poor areas of L.A. than any bad policy or law. Many companies in the area lost everything and the few that didn't left as soon as they could. This destroyed economic opportunity for locals as nobody wanted to invest in those neighborhoods. Even mundane activities like grocery shopping became a chore as there were no grocery stores in those areas anymore and public transportation was the only option for many inhabitants. The few restaurants that remained were all high profit margin fast food which drastically affected the health of the general population for decades afterward.
Any talking head who justifies rioting under the guise of being "the voice of the unheard" is short sighted to the point of being dangerous.
Especially since the media deliberately didn’t show the entire video. People would have seen that the beating wasn’t the issue. King’s consistent attack on the police was the problem.
Those are facts though...how's the average everyday lib gonna select some outrage with those?
@@fieryeurochick3194 >> King’s consistent attack on the police was the problem.
Rubbish. No matter how violent King was, a group of police armed with batons who could not safely subdue and arrest a single suspect were grossly incompetent at best, and probably should have been charged with far more serious offences than they were. None of that justifies the subsequent riots however
@@talltroll7092 You really need to watch the original video if you can find it. He was a charging bull. His friend didn’t get hurt at all. He complied. Why do you think King felt so badly about the riots? He knew the truth and he knew the truth wasn’t being told.
Shaun King, great example.
Conflict is the inevitable outcome of diversity.
I love when Dr Loury is surprised when Dr Peterson reiterated what he said in his words... better than he felt he said it.. that is the power of truly listening then communicating back that skill... so fundamental!! And so uncommon...
Peterson is a trained psychologist. I'm sure that has something to do with it
That’s a debate technique Jordan recently released a video on, like last week… the video is called something like “do this one thing during every argument you get into”
I’d look it up, it was interesting.
@@The.Nasty. he said it in his class years ago...
@@wolfy8006 okay… and there’s a YT video on it that’s not from years ago and probably a bit easier to find than the class lecture.
It could also undermine the person who made the point originally.
The worst problem is that people felt emboldened to commit crime while praising a criminal. No matter the phrase they use to defend their actions, they all committed criminal acts which is what they stand AGAINST.
The people who committed criminal acts don’t stand against crime. They stand for obtaining advantages for themselves / their pawns. Don’t assign spurious virtue to people who have none.
I personally enjoy the hypocrisy and irony of the whole thing because there's so many layers to it.
People on the left who proclaim themselves to be evolved humans with better morality and empathy end up with the cities and states with the highest levels of police abuse, homelessness/poverty, hate crimes, and racism. When people were protesting about the treatment of black people, they essentially burned down and destroyed black communities.
I don't know if this is related, but I remember the look on Steve Carrel's face as they were pointing out that he was donating to the bail funds. Those people looked positively evil.
@@bobsmith5185 when I say that, I am stating that on their exterior they CLAIM to stand against criminal acts. I should have been more clear as this is all a reduction to absurdity: that they would claim to fight violence and then burn down cities for a few months
I think a lot of the looters and rioters had a penchant for criminality--- but were largely on the fence. This was the opportunity for them to take criminal action using George Floyd as an excuse. Self awareness is not the average street criminal's strong suit.
Glenn Loury is a national treasure. I've been following his youtube channel for over a year now and he never disappoints. I feel like I've learned so much from him. Thanks Glen!
I have to pushback on Dr. Loury. The mass incarceration is because of a lack of good values in the home. We can't ignore the absence of fathers as our communities have the highest single parent percentage in the nation.
And why is that, do you believe? Black people just have loose morals, I suppose?
Can't argue with that point. But when this is brought up, the activist just deflects it like it doesn't exist
Correct!
How can you be sure that the cycle starts with the absence of fathers, when unequal incarceration is a direct cause of absent fathers?
Knowing Better - Neoslavery
You guys really hit the nail on the head here. There’s is a real danger to normalizing the instinct to classify individuals down to the worst traits of other individuals in the group or demographic they happen to belong to. Those pushing for this kind of reductionist thinking neglect to consider that it can be used against them.
@@keithsj10 it might be. My point is that it needs to be considered case by case, individual to individual. We can’t just assume motivations based on race alone. Most victims of robberies are usually targeted because they appear vulnerable, aka easy prey, and give the appearance of having something worth stealing.
@@pirateskeleton7828 people saw chauvin as racist idk about that! What I do know is that cops need to be trained better and police reform is needed! There’s some sort of racial bias that definitely exists when you see black people (proportionally) are 2wice as likely to be shot!
@@keithsj10 not sure what your point is. My point is that people shouldn’t be assuming other peoples motivations solely based on what races were involved, and instead determine the case on its own merits. This particular case doesn’t seem to be too complicated so we can probably jump to some conclusions and be correct. Other cases aren’t so cut and dry.
@@dfredankey People saw chauvin as racist.... why? Where was the evidence? Too many people scream racism for no good reason. Right there is what's tearing society apart. Wokeness. Taking the knee and all the rest of it.
@@dfredankey There might be racial bias but it can just as easily be explained by the fact that black people are disproportionally poor, and poor people tend to get involved in blue collar crime more, especially if there is poor welfare state support, which usually carries a high risk of getting shot by police.
With the Chauvin verdict I see people saying "who cares that he didn't get a fair trial because I hate him and what he did". Not realizing the Titanic sized moral iceberg that kind of thinking leads us toward.
yea he didnt get a free trial, he shouldve been publicly excecuted and dragged in the streets just like he did to his victim
Chain in got the correct verdict. The black kid who murdered the white female college student in the park got the correct verdict.
That kid preyed on that White girl
Chauvin preyed on the Black guy.
In both their eyes, they had someone they saw as valueless under their Black & White power.
Sorry... That is the real truth we don't want to admit!
@@computer_janitor Did you watch the trial? There was at least one biased juror who lied on the voir dire questionnaire. He said he wasn't involved in any BLM events/protests. Then a picture surfaced of him at a rally in DC wearing a shirt that read "Get Your Knee Off Our Necks". I'm not saying the cop is innocent, he just didn't get a fair trial. The judge refused to even hold a hearing about the possible perjury.
That trial should not have been in Minneapolis.
@@computer_janitor Did you see the whole arrest tape ? Floyd with a visible chunk of meth and fent. in his mouth . The 20 minute panic attack before he was on the ground . He was dying long before. Chauvin was a bad cop that was the only thing proven. If Floyd was white he still would have a boot on his neck. The whole trial was a shit show. The real crime is the way the left and the left media used it to tear down the nation. Never let a crisis go to waste. Right out of the Marxist play book..
This is spot on, the thing that always pissed me off the most about this whole thing is the presumption that it was racially motivated. Absolutely no room for an ounce of critical thinking or debate in public discourse. You either agreed with the constructed narrative completely, or you were an evil racist.
You're exactly correct and I heard officer chauvin called George Floyd "Sir" several times. "Sir have you taken anything?" "Sir are you on anything? You are foaming at the mouth!." George Floyd replied "No." & That was immediately after officer chauvin and his partner arrived on the scene and Floyd had forced himself out of the car or was in the process thereof.
Cultural Marxism in action
Why did it piss you off more that the murder was presumed to be racially motivated than the fact that a cop strangled someone to death?
@@thescribe3184 Because this case was racialized/politicized to an insane degree by opportunistic evil clout chasing race hustlers and a multi million/billion dollar "media" complex hell-bent on creating a low resolution and largely false narrative about police brutality and race relations in the country at large. A narrative that was (and is) designed to pit people against one another and stir up chaos and otherwise perpetuate misery needlessly.
The riots that ensued shortly after this incident caused massive amounts of human suffering through assaults, murders, and billions of dollars in property destruction. Less immediately, the constructed narrative around this incident was (and is being) used as justification by corrupt city officials and morally bankrupt mega corporations to push for the defunding of police departments nationwide, the implementation of CRT in public education and the injection of divisive one sided racial politics into sports, entertainment, and pretty much every facet of public life.
The fallout from this case has had a much bigger negative impact on society as a whole than the incident itself. I'm not a fan of police brutality, but I'm even less of a fan of the anarcho tyranny LARP that our country is currently going through. In my mind the person most responsible for George Floyd's fate is George Floyd, and we need to stop trying martyr career criminals regardless of what race they are.
The worst part of all is that it's the black community that has likely bore the biggest cost in all of this when it's all said and done. Does that answer the question?
@@relaxingsounds5469 It does. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
As a victim of police misconduct, I can tell you it's not the fault of the media. These riots were overdue. I told a coworker that if officers keep killing unarmed black people, they'll eventually become targets themselves. Years later, my words have become reality.
Thanks again for sharing.
I'm a 53 yr old white male and have friends of all colors, as I did growing up on my block in the mid to late 1970's. This is great conversation by two great men, and the main point I take out of this discussion is that this whole "white guilt" thing, and making George Floyd the poster boy for injustice, along with CRT in schools, etc is nonsense, and only further divides, and IMO the powers that be want this division, I just don't know exactly why. People are people, some good some bad, and most of the differences are in "Culture", not Color, but they never talk about that because common sense doesn't seem to exist when it comes to these topics. Eight year old innocent kid's should not be taught, or made to feel bad about things that happened 10 generations ago, when they have enough to content with in this cyber world they are growing up in.
I’m also in my 50’s and grew up in the 60’s & 70’s with black families, Jewish families, Mexican families & white families. Brand new neighborhood. We were all friends. My black friend was extremely popular. Not because of her skin color but because she was a good person.
In London large numbers of people decended on the city centre after Floyd's murder. There was violence and vandalism and it was horrible. They acted like 1 this had happened in the UK and 2 a riot would help. It was during a lockdown and felt like an enormous excuse for cathartic destruction. Certainly helped nobody and solved nothing.
Yeah, here in the US a bunch of Ukrainians took to the street to protest the war, even though the US isn't involved. Things like that happen.
Wonder what the mystery reply was
It just showed people’s ignorance and the power the media has on the small minded.
Let me guess why they were protesting was it because they wanted to go shopping at the high end stores.
@@thegooglearchipelago8253 it’s hard to be representative when UK police only shoot 3-5 people a year…
Being poor doesnt give you an excuse to be a criminal
I'm a 63yr old black man. Back in the 60's and 70's we had less money and fewer resources... yet, we were not as violent towards each other as I see black behaving people today.
Or rich !
Data shows being poor is a cause.
@@computer_janitor It isnt the main cause at all. Social welfare systems..no fathers in the homes, no accountability, Leftie apologists and those using the racism of low expectations and over lenient justice system that puts criminals right back on the street. Stealing alcohol from walgreens is not feeding your family. They have no excuse.
@@computer_janitor do you think it could be a vicious circle? Businesses won't open up in high crime areas, work isn't available to the locals, poverty increases, people commit crime to make ends meet, businesses are even less likely to open up in that area and poverty and crime increase even more.
An open dialogue with patience , honesty and respect . Thank you both for modeling appropriate behavior .
Yes, so true. Open dialogue is sure missing in our world to day. 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
The young woman was Tessa Majors, who was part of a family that is very dear to Volunteer fans at the University of TN. If I remember correctly, Johnny Majors, the great football coach, was her uncle. That family went through a lot of tragedies over the years.
I just thought it was important that someone mention her name, and thanks to Dr. Loury for remembering the incident that so many have already forgotten.
Thank you
Forgot about it? I never even heard about it.
@@iwantthe80sback59
It was a local news story here in New York. The national media ignored it, as it didn't fit their narrative.
@@jimwerther Thank you for letting me know. Cheers, Toronto
@@iwantthe80sback59
👍
Protesting on behalf of a violent career criminal is never a good idea generally.
We accomplished more than those pathetic peaceful Canadian trucker protests which accomplished absolutely *NOTHING*
In the early 80's corrections personnel were trained that being incarcerated was the punishment (loss of freedom), not for punishment. Strides were being made to occupy inmates with education, counseling and toward the end of their sentence, work release to reintroduce them gradually to freedom with responsibility. It was also shown that removing an inmate from his home area, diminished the societal and economic influences and their safety net that endorsed the criminal behavior. Results were that first time offenders that did not go back to their home area, did not re-offend. Multiple offenders continued to offend, until the age of 45. Then they seemed more open to change. Those that were able to continue in the their work release job, did not re-offend. What happened to these programs?
Now in some areas it's common for a newly released inmate to be given a bill for expenses incurred during incarceration. Not only are they not given much assistance to get back to a responsible and meaningful existence, they're penalized further. And what happens WHEN this debt becomes unmanageable? The same thing for any debt you don't pay. The legal system just keeps grinding. It's not just cruel. It's malevolent.
I spent way too long working in corrections , the programs are still there , but not a lot of takers . Teachers in a prison with 1,500 men with class rooms of 10 to 15 people attending ( 90s and beyond ) . At first I noticed that the low numbers for education was a too cool for school attitude , now it’s because BLM , trans rights , ( the saddest part ) fear for being singled out by other inmates ( that’s never been good ). With work release you have to follow the rules or you get kicked back to medium security . They must be and want to change .
@@sugarmagnolia7735 Prison's main utility should be to prevent harm to society by locking up harmful people. A secondary goal should be offering opportunities and rehabilitation to those who prove they are serious about it.
What also happened is that a large amount of US citizens do NOT want any cent of their tax money to go towards making criminals’ lives any better
@@worsethanjoerogan8061 , “ the safety and security of the institution and the public .”
An observation I've repeatedly made over the years is that I've never seen a Progressive treat another person as a human being, they treat everyone and everything around them as a talking point. The 'fiery but mostly peaceful' protests is certainly a testament to how much they actually cared about their own communities.
Remember who pays THEIR bills also.. 99% taxpayer funded leaches.
"I've never seen a progressive treat another person as a human being" is exactly the kind of rigid ideological rhetoric Peterson and Loury are fighting against imo
@rahn45 And yet here you are, speaking of all “Progressives” as non-humans, as a mere taking point
@@dgoodall It's called an "observation". If you put a gun to my head and told me to come up with an example where I witnessed a Progressive treat someone else like a human being I'd come up short.
I actually tried to go through my head of various Progressive figures I'm aware of and tried to think of instances where they treated someone else like a person, and I couldn't think of any. Is this because I don't know that many Progressives? Maybe. Perhaps all outspoken Progressives behave that way, and the 'quiet' ones actually do treat other people like human beings? Maybe. I don't know.
Besides, I never made the claim that Progressives are 'non-human'; I said I've never seen them treat someone else like a human being.
@@rahn45 the dehumanizing and reducing to a talking point happens on both sides. It’s the basis of what we now call “debate” unfortunately.
Often disastrous confrontations between police and any individual begin with refusing to obey the officers at the beginning.
You are speaking of Ukraine’s refusal to obey the Minsk agreements, correct?
If so, I agree.
Thoughtful comments and insights from JP and Dr. Loury.
I keep you both in prayer.
Thank you.
The Problem? Making a Saint out of a common criminal. Then using him as a Martyr to justify your crimes.
@@computer_janitor Listen pal, i'm an immigrant from a poor background, and i had multiple opportunities to make the wrong choice.. I didn't, because morals. Stop victimizing and take responsibility.
It's racist to police Blacks in a country with a Jewish elite that intensely hates the White population.
exactly
@@computer_janitor AHAHAHAHAHA
Should we continue to justify criminal behavior by cops though?
Not only is this content insightful, but Dr. Peterson gives a masterful example of active listening, accurately paraphrasing, and clarifying.
His listening is far, far superior to the incompetent and biased Cathy Newman of Channel 4 News!
Where are the replies to this comment? It says there should be 2 replies.
Masterclass
Thank you both!
Thank you so much I wish we all could have discussions openly great job
Martin Luther King Jr., Malcolm X, Medgar Evers would all be facepalming in their graves at this BS.
ABSOLUTAMENTE! Rejecting and contradicting MLK & JESUS
will only make things worse.
These morons existed in MLK's camp. It's just that people followed MLK instead of the other jerks trying to lead, because MLK won his position with logic and reason. I miss logic and reason.
@@theBear89451 I am so less ignorant, fooled, and dangerous than I used to be. But, I am old. "and then, another little baby's born in the ghetto" "and so it goes"
MLK would be right next to Al Sharpton race grifting like they always did
@@Fozzimo - I don’t think so. Otherwise, MLK wouldn’t have been assassinated. So far Al Sharpton isn’t a threat to the oligarchy so he’s still alive.
what a profound conversation... thank you both for your intellectual contributions.
Man o man! This convo was beautiful!, I wish I had the level of knowledge these 2 guys have, hats off to Both of you Gentlemen! 🍾💯
The Floyd response was so dishonest and I REFUSE to believe that the people who inflate the issue don't know the truth
They know the truth - they are intentionally trying to keep people enraged and confused. Mainstream Media is straight evil
i think theyre seeking some kind of moral purpose and have no clue how to do it. SJWs, dumb as dirt
💯 saved a burning and looting
Justice must be equally applied no matter what a person's characteristics are. We also can't ignore reality and actual statistics when talking about who is committing crimes and why they may have gone down that path in life. Society is so quick to yell "racism!" instead of acknowledging the truth and finding solutions to prevent more people from ending up in the same situation. Education and a solid support structure of family, friends and community matter most, no matter who you are.
Maybe we should stop making statistics taking into account non scientific classifications such as "race", because that assumes your skin color somehow affects your behavior as a person, and that's the definition of racism. If we made statistics according to length of the... hand, maybe we also would find out that "those longhanders are all criminals!"🙄
@@mx2201 Agreed. The left makes everything about specific categories like race to push their own agendas and divide us all further. Each person is their own self and we as a society need to treat people as individuals first and foremost instead of categorizing them into 1,000 different boxes and basing people solely on those checked boxes.
@@QuietCastle I am afraid it's not just "the left" who thinks it is reasonable to make statistics with race. I would say is just accepted as normal in USA. In europe I rarely see such statistics, although I am sure soon will copy the USA overlords, because we copy even their mistakes. 🙄
EXACTLY !! I THINK MANY PEOPLE DONT KNOW THAT MORE WHITES ARE KILLED BY COPS THAN BLACKS ..
So refreshing to hear intelligent discussion like this, thank you!
racism is a democrat conspiracy theory
Honestly, the whole "George Floyd" incident woke me up to what is happening in America. I was shocked, then pissed that I had been so fooled. Fooled about EVERYTHING! Thank you, for the wake up!
eye see you
ok Bonny, it'll be fine. Just please for the love of god take your meds before you hurt someone :(
it's very easy to fool someone who'll believe a story that changed 4 times can't breathe but he can talk just fine underacting crisis
@@youar33y3
shuddup red rose
i too read el zuhar
What's US foreign policy? Bombing countries & stealing resources has nothing to do with Communism or Socialism. Rules Based Order is Colonialism 2.0.
This is so spot on. Intelligent logical conversations are a must
This kinda perfectly articulates how I view the “race issue” in America. We’re still ironing out a lot of the issues and it’s hard because of the people in charge, not the structures. But we actually go backwards in our development as a society if we paint everything in the broad brush stroke of “racism is inherent and alive as ever.” I hate to try to speak for anyone, but to me it seems incorrect to think that every African American is for BLM.
race is real, it's more than just skin color, and it matters. no, this doesnt mean it's completely determinant. yes, it does mean it matters. people should be free to identify with their race if they want to without being cast as a boogeyman.
@@billyumbraskey8135 identity politics is the reason we are so divided as it is
@@Red-zh7vq low-thought response.
Black folks and White folks form different cultures and ultimately different societies. White majority culture and societies may not be an ideal fit for Black folks, and I suspect the reverse may be equally true as well. The most humane step may be to free Black folks from the ‘round peg in a square hole’ incongruence of White society and give them greater latitude to build their own cultures and societies which best fit them (support localism).
When you say America do you mean the US ?
So happy to see Jordan Peterson and Glenn Loury talking together!!! Love you both!! ❤️
Having this discussion is amazing. Im open to ideas with this man
I think it requires mentioning that Dr. Loury's synopsis of the protests in the beginning was woefully lacking. Lacking the murders at said protests. Sure some would say that is encompassed within the term "riot". However calling mob and individual murder of innocents, "rioting" is downplaying the severity of murder. Rioting is simply a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd. Id say multiple murders is a bit more than a violent disturbance of the peace. Keep in mind the "autonomous zones" that were the cause of many murders, started with a george floyd protest.
This whole conversation was so satisfying from start to finish. I started writing a comment on the main conversation only to notice it quickly turned into an essay so I deleted it lol. Suffice it to say, bravo gents.
If you haven't noticed, we people here who gather on intellectual videos don't mind essays or long comments.
Should’ve copied and pasted that essay on a Word document and kept working on it. I know Jordan would agree
You just self censored yourself.
"Well I listened to you, so thats a big help."
Jordans way of speaking/interacting is just beautiful
I hate that this conversation is so rare to see and so hard for people with much bigger platforms to have.
"The attacker stabbed Majors several times in the chest, with one stab wound piercing the heart."
Not some thing happened to some people...
But nothing to do with race!
I've watched Dr. Peterson use this analysis in other discussions, how low-resolution analysis doesn't really unpack the complexity of the situation. I completely agree with that. He has also emphatically stated that you can't *train* people out of their biases. I also largely agree with that, which means that even thoughtful dialogues such as this will do very little if anything to create the possibility that more people will be capable engaging in the depth of analysis required for high-resolution perspectives. A dramatic, transformational shift in consciousness in individuals is required for that to happen.
Jordan Peterson in my life I didn't know how to get emotional maturity. I couldn't leave an abussive relationship. I couldn't stop self medication. Your the only one who's made life make sense and help to heal me and I've always adored my children more than life itself but you have improved my mothering and hopefully saved my life. Before there were a million things I wanted to do but the feeling whats the point would not go away. I got away from the abuse I experienced since tge day I was born and pray I still have time to be who I know I can. And to help others out of the hell I was in. Thank you Jordan.
Words of a wise man. We need more people like him. 🙂
Which one?
@@joelonsdale both :)
@@KajsaBernhardina Aahh.... Words of a wise men... no... words of the wise mans... um...
Yet neither mentioned Tessa was 💯 innocent…
@Dale Snoloje
Ofc Dominik Tarczynski 😊
So impressed that people stand up for the guy who had been in prison for 9 times before he gets 40 and pointed a gun to a pregnant womans belly before
❤ your sarcasm
Its the same people who put up Posters of a mass murderer because he is photogenic, ask someone what they know about Che Guevara and despair
He was a saint! (by their standards).
Sober almost 2 years now
On his way to church while helping an elderly woman cross the street.
St. George
I believe the issue is an inability or unwillingness to assimilate, parent, or take responsibility for either. That mixed with the glorification of a criminal lifestyle in pop culture by people who live in mansions. To suggest that loosening drug laws will change the race disparity in prisons is naive at best.
However, even when you try to assimilate all races reject Americans of African descent. Especially African American males. I speak from experience of having graduated from and Ivy League college and still facing discrimination on a minute to minute basis in largely Latino and Asian controlled Los Angeles.
@@andre1987ephit's a pattern worldwide. There's a reason for it. You might not feel that it's particularly fair to you as an individual but you probably 'play the percentages' in your daily life in many ways too.
thanks for the lesson sir. :)
You have to address each problem in more detail, to find a better solution.
This was one of my favourite interviews and to observe Peterson don the Clinical psychologist hat (to carefully and non judgementally listen Dr Lourys personal story of chaotic addiction), was like watching a little bit of his Rogerian training take a momentary and welcomed surface!
Here's an idea..STOP BREAKING THE LAW!!
Great conversation
These two needs to do a daily podcast. I would listen every single day.
Drugs had a big part to do for the loss of life. 3 times lethal dose of fentanyl including other drugs.
Can you please show the medical examination / autopsy report where it shows that George Floyd a 110kg male had 3x the lethal dose of fentanyl in his system.
I thought it was 10x
@@Adam-ez8dw I'll try,but with media taking facts down, I can't guarantee it.
@@relaxingsounds5469 nah those are the voices In your head, feeding your confirmation bias. Not to worry though, soon you'll have no head. Decapitation of a nation, ain't nothing worth more than that.
@Mitthenstein I get that sarcasm is difficult to detect In a written comment section but holy crap, calm down. However now that you’ve revealed yourself I’d like to know what you find racist about questioning the extent to which drugs played a role in his death? Looking at the toxicology report it sure seems like he was likely already a dead man walking by the start of the encounter. Unfortunately for our society, It’s mindless virtue signaling and knee jerk attribution to racism like what you’ve displayed here that have helped to turn this case into an absolute cultural dumpster fire… the fallout of which we’re still grappling with to this day.
The media is largely to blame. They lied about Floyd. They didn't tell people that he was on tons of drugs. That's why his heart gave out. Doesn't necessarily justify kneeling on his neck, but he was resisting arrest and crazy high.
yup the second he stepped out of the truck floyd was saying "I can't breathe". This is what happens when you OD on fentanyl. The cop was too dumb to recognize what was happening. Maybe the criminal could have survived and certainly the cop wouldn't have gone to prison if he had been smarter.
Resisting arrest should count as an admission of guilt.
The media are largely to blame for almost every problem we have. Then, once you find out they are colluding as a larger organization with the government and the largest tech corporations we have in the country, combined with a president who it couldn’t be more clear isn’t running anything, we have a serious, existential problem as a free society.
@@zitools don’t know about that. A person shouldn’t resist arrest, but an innocent person may feel that they shouldn’t be arrested and resist as much as a guilty person. There has been many people convicted for resisting arrest that was not charged for anything else, but I would agree that it does make you look guilty if you do resist arrest.
I saw the security cam vids in the store before he left. He was flying on some bad drug all during the vids. No one knows what killed that druggee.
The Art of Comunication involves listening and not allowing our preconceived notions get in the way. We need more people like these two gentlemen. Thank you.
One Of The Few People I Know Who Are More Interested In Solving Problems Instead Of Just Discussing Them✌🏾
Necessary conversation. Greetings from Spain
Hola, Espania
Love you, JP! 🇨🇦🇺🇸 i’m so glad to have you back, and so glad you remain undaunted and willing to take on the most dangerous subjects imaginable.
until you mention jews
great conversation
Very important points being made here. Sadly you'll never see a conversation like this on CNN.
In today's generation once someone invokes the racism card, you can only walk away there is no more discussion that can be made.
@Anya Wale Whoever programs you bot accounts really isn't that clever. I mean, almost 500 comments on Jordan Peterson's TH-cam videos in just 3 months? That's not fooling anyone with half a brain lol.
Meghan Markle threatened Royal Family with races card, they folded she got million s and millions until they stood up to her. She played the card on Oprah and only the stupid believed.
You may not want black on white crime to be processed racially but we need to call things by their proper name.
Far more black people live around white people than white people live around black people. This is a consequence of sheer numbers.
So I'm not sure why that, in and of itself, should be ominous unless you're ascribing a racial motive to all crimes where the people involved are of different races.
I live in a northern suburb of Minneapolis. The protests spread out and vandalism was prevalent. There was an ominous feeling permitting from my neighborhood. It felt as though I was living in a zombie apocalypse. The sense you get when a tornado is near and sirens are sounding, yeah… that’s it. Exactly. Stores being boarded up. No exposed glass. It was as if we were preparing for a hurricane. I work in Brooklyn Park MN where Daunte Wright was shot during a routine traffic stop by officer Kim Potter. It was not racially motivated but they made such the example of her. Horrible, horrible accident. All on video.
God bless you both
Dont do ALL your drugs before talking to the police
Disparity in incarceration is caused by disparity in criminality
As well as disparity of single mother households
@@Daniel_Lee_Forrest it isn’t socioeconomic disparity; it’s culture. Other groups of previously poor Americans have been able to improve their socioeconomic standing and haven’t stayed so violent for so long (or were never so violent).
Do you have numbers regarding criminality that you are referring to specifically?
@@bobsmith5185 I'm sorry, but this is wrong. Peterson himself has a video talking about the GINI coefficient, which is a measure of the material inequality that exists within any given geographic area. And he concurs that the GINI coefficient is the BEST predictor of violence in the social sciences.
"Culture", on the other hand, does not at all have the same degree of measurable robustness.
@@olivesama certain groups remain poor & violent because of their culture. And members of those groups frequently stay violent even if they somehow acquire wealth.
I saw the full bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest. He was saying he couldn't breath before they even pulled him from the car. He overdosed on something, or had some sort of panic induced respiratory failure. He was resisting the entire time, while yelling "I'm not resisting!"
EXACTLY !! THEY SHOULD HAVE STOPPED RIGHT THERE AND OFFERED HIM SOME AIR ! WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THEY CANT BREATH THEN THEY CANT BREATHE!! THE POOR MR FLOYD WAS DENIED MEDICAL HELP
Correct. Fentanyl FLOYD was already dying from all his drug use. His drug pimp, was sitting in his car. Nothing happened to the drug dealer. 3 times the amount of fentanyl in his system, that would normally killl a man. HE HAD THAT ON HIS TONGUE. The black culture wants to make it a racial thing. They DO, do, most of the crime. Change the culture.
@@salamjihad3449
Yup 👍
And they should have given Floyd a sandwich too , in case Floyd was hungry …
Offering to give Floyd a shoulder massage would have been a nice gesture by the cops , too !
Heck , the least those cops could have done is pay for them pack of cigarettes that Floyd tried to buy with a counterfeit $20 bill … am I right ?
These cops are awful
@@angelozachos8777 LOL EXACTLY !! THESE THUGS ARE GETTING THE ROYAL TREATMENT FROM THE BLM SNOWFLAKES !!
@X vonPocalypse WHO TOLD YOU THAT?
The lightning strike on the "mural" was really spectacular ..... almost a judgement call ( even for the "non- superstitious) ..
When he talked about prison reform, I tend to agree with him...I watched Pastor Art Pawlowski's interview last month with Rebel news and the treatment he received during his 50 days of incarceration(for practicing the essential service of Mass), and the treatment and drug access he witnessed during that time(he believed that although it was the hardest trial in his life, he believes God had a purpose for him there) to help in some way in reforming the prison system. The terrible treatment that alot of prisoners receive hardens them more and when they do finally get out into society they will reoffend.
Don't be foolish
@@bubbag8895 that's quite glib, care to expand?
He also overdosed on fentanyl. Left that important detail out
@Mitthenstein To prevent riots and violence to the jurors?
He also tested positive for Covid. I've heard it has some negative impacts on the respiratory system.
@Mitthenstein Hmmm, and Oj was innocent?
@Mitthenstein The relevance is that the justice system isn't perfect. Some innocent people go to jail, and some guilty people get off the hook.
It sounded to me as if you were claiming that during the trial everybody did things just right and justice was served.
Thank you!
I can never listen to Dr. Loury without being completely spellbound.
People all over the world would give up their lives for their children to live in America, yet some Americans are constantly saying that America is a terrible place. We need some perspective.
It’s ok to criticize your own country if your intention is to make it better. I would call it patriotism. Way better than close your eyes to all the flaws and accept it as is.
Some?
@@gugy68 you are correct. Like everything there is a balance. Burning down your own community is a bad start
It is a terrible place for some. How is that an inconsistency?
It doesn't have to be worse than every other place for the suffering of people in your own country to matter.
@@valcaron sure, like I said earlier, if your intention is to make it better I am all for protests but unfortunately there are individuals that want just to create chaos. So it’s important t make this distinction.
It's so sad when the people who think they are helping the world are hurting it most
I don't think they think they're helping. They know they're out for themselves
You're literally describing yt supremacy, "manifest destiny", and the last 500 years.
YT Supremacy did this, the pendulum went up, but a wrecking ball will come down. Fk America, may it fall and shatter into a billion pieces.And may all those that were complicit in its atrocities despair and suffer.
@@abepresume8132 Self-hating whites should relieve the planet of their own existence.
Like this? Find and listen to the entire conversation! Absolutely wonderful! 🙏💞🇺🇸
Brilliant interview by JP
Thank you, Jordan. High resolution point: Jordan Peterson and his talks.
As long as we have different cultures, we will have social problems. It is true in the United States (and the West), just like it is true in Iraq, Israel, and anyplace else that has two cultures both with sizeable numbers. It is made all the worse when members of those cultures can be determined by skin color.
@Mitthenstein lmao what?! do you know how ignorant this take is? and counter to the reality of the modern west today, the west was way more peaceful (nationaly) when cultural hegemony was comman and if you think today we have less problem then before becouse we have more "mixed-culture" then you are delusional as hell and that true for every nation not just the west, you just butthurt because of your cringy worldview got disprove by today reality and you can't bring your self to admit that
@Mitthenstein I think you need to be specific there, or your point will be misconstrued. When you say "mixing cultures" it can either mean having multiple siloed cultures forced to share a physical space while not integrating with each other, or it can mean cultures freely exchanging with each other and blending, eventually becoming a rich hybrid culture.
The first case is usually a ticking time bomb, while the second case is closer to what you describe: a rich culture that becomes stronger. For instance within what you would call "white America" are many very different and disparate European cultures that have successfully blended into a strong whole, despite histories of bloodshed and war on their home continent. However, due to deliberate practices of exclusion, there is a tension between "black" and "white" America which has deliberately been forced to remain separate and thus is more like the scenarios the OP was referring to.
That is unfortunate. The skin colour is first thing people notice. No black man has said that they were enslaved by Anglo-Saxons or Spaniards. Had the crusaders been black, Baltic people would use that observation to describe crusaders as evil black people, but it wasn't the case, so Germanic it was.
@@clockpenalty A "mixing of cultures" will become one culture. I think of early in American history, the mixing of German culture with Irish culture, for example. It has long since become one culture. In this country we currently have a segment of the population that rails against cultural appropriation. Other parts of the population have other sociological complaints specifically concerning what are perceived as negative cultural characteristics of others. How can that possibly be a healthy society?
@@ootmaster1 Yes, it is called "assimilation". And it can be done by any two populations if the desire is sufficient. I do not know what you mean by "diluting the host population". The characteristics of the majority culture will be changed to some degree by the assimilation of minority cultures. For the good of society, everyone must accept at least some change.
Great convo
"Separation of concerns". It behoves us to look at each concern in isolation there by getting a "high resolution understanding". Yet there are also complexities involved in teasing out the parts/concerns and also a issue of complexity (i.e. many issues multiplies the issues and gives rise to emergent issues/concerns which arise from the interaction/interleaving of the concerns in the problem space). Unfortunately the human brain requires training to even approach a treatment/resolution of this magnitude and this is not even management of truly complex problems aka "wicked-problems".
I think the incarceration rates are a reflection of culture. African-Americam culture, to be specific. People usually disregard this as an alt-right talking point. But recently, I've been reading this book called Black Rednecks and White Liberals written by Thomas Sowell. I think he makes a compelling case. Didn't expect that in the least. The man has done his research, but no one us taking that seriously.
Mr Jordan, if by some chance you're reading this. Please, invite Dr Sowell to your podcast. I think you two should have a real discussion.
YES to all of this. Sowell is excellent.
@@computer_janitor He is taken seriously. Basic Economics is required reading in many universities. Why would you say he's not taken seriously in academia?
He's only not taken seriously by leftist media, for obvious reasons.
@Mitthenstein nobody said anything about hidden. And he's certainly not neoliberal.
I never hear any detractors of Sowell actually offer any evidence, let alone an actual argument. I wonder why.
Jordan has reached out. Unfortunately Sowell is too old and has retired from public discourse.
IT'S too bad that criminals, in the act of breaking laws are the modern day heroes. IF compliance saves your life, why isn't that a talking point.
He was arrested for a crime he hadn’t committed and was a victim of excessive and needless force.
@@AT-mu6ov You didn't watch the full 30 minute video, did you.....
@@PreppinShootinLivin I did, it was for sure excessive and needless force, the man was anxious, nervous, he needed a break that the officers refused to give him before entering the car, so one if them irresponsibly forced him in, the worst thing you can do to a claustrophobic person, so he tried to squirm out, something thw officers took act of possible hostility towards them instead of trying to understand the reason
He wasn't a corfirmed criminal, and not seen as a hero, but a victim of racist prejudice
@@PreppinShootinLivin I watched the 2 hour podcast. My statement stands. What is your point ?
Way to gentlemen... Simply awesome like a Boss 💪🏾🙏🏾💪🏾
True conversation on a hot topic!
Just began following you on you tube. You are fantastically informed on so many controversial issues. I’ve always wanted some sort of explanation of why every Newspaper, tv news stations,journalists, most colleges, any news outlet can be that devastatingly left winged devils? and a congress completely divided . I just don’t understand?
“left winged devils?” No one in a
political disagreement is a devil.
Please remember that. We are all
Americans.
Forty years ago i dropped out of college because a Sociology Professor was assigning stereotypical views to inner city America. Nobody has ever wanted to assign personal responsibility to those persons in those communities. It was crap then, and it is forty years more tragic now. I believed then that accepting personal responsibility for your own success was the only way to advance in this life. So far, I have been correct and They have continued to blame and be disappointed.
5:13 - 5:46 A very good example of summarising the other person's point in a way they're satisfied with it!
I absolutely love both of these men.....so wise.....wisdom is color blind!
Lol ....no homo 😆
“The only lives that truly matter are those who respect the lives of others”.
So well put ❤️
Here you go. Have a like for old time’s sake.
“We” didn’t make George Kirby’s OD death about race, the lame stream media did
Well said!
Damn this is powerful. Glenn Loury and John Mcwhorter are both amazing intellects and should be much more popular than they are.
As an engineer you are always battling with peoples lack of understanding of complexity.
As well as the complexity of finding analogous language to communicate there seems to be a larger problem. One I have internally fought tooth and nail against but I am running out of excuses not to capitulate.
It's almost like everyone has a limit to the size and depth of the abstract problem that they can carry in their heads at once and some people have more than others.
That limit precludes their ability to understand some problems that are otherwise simple for others because if, even when those ideas are distilled down to their most abstract and high level forms they are too large to fit, well, where do you go from there?
It's an insurmountable problem in communication. It's like not having enough ram to load in the full software or the data the software needs to use to solve the problem.
I still have hope that its just a lack of knowledge or poor communication but the older I get the more proof (albeit anecdotal) there seems to be to the contrary.
@Mitthenstein What specifically did you feel was rambling?
I know what it is referred to as. I know why heuristics and stereotypes are used I literally just said that.
Which dichotomies am I thinking in?
@NotSure It could well be reenforced with the fear that school is simply the beginning of ones educative journey.
Especially for those that didn't have a particularly good relationship with education up until that point or probably worse in those that did but weren't particularly autodidactive.
i.e. Being thrust into a world where people tell you, "now you have to do that, oh btw you have to self motivate, oh also you have to do it whilst you amass all these other responsibilities that were previously delegated to other people." is probably quite overwhelming for some people.
So yes maybe it is compelling to think that what you already know will be sufficient to navigate the world.
Maybe even there is enough societal forgiveness at first to bolster that assumption.
It feels like you would invariably get stuck with that attitude i.e. if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts looking like a nail.
Some problems really aren't nails though. Some problems are bombs and you are going to make a really big mess if you start wailing on them with a hammer.
@Mitthenstein Which words specifically am I using incorrectly?
@Mitthenstein Actually I rated in the top 0.1% nationally when tested for my vocabulary as a child (in Britain where I was privately educated by doctors (PhDs) of English). I have had no reason to believe that much has changed since then.
So you may have to start being specific and substantiating the things you are saying if you expect me to care about your opinion.
I know my punctuation is all over the place, but on the internet writing extremely formally is often counter productive. I also know that the semantics wont be because I am quite deliberate in my word choice.
@Mitthenstein "What is the the ‘lack of understanding of complexity’ that you refer to?"
That was in reference to the video. If you watched it maybe understanding what it was in reference to would be quite apparent.
"Everything is more or less complex, and nothing is complex or not. There’s your example of dichotomous thinking."
What on earth are you talking about? Complexity:
complexity
/kəmˈplɛksəti/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the state or quality of being intricate or complicated.
People struggle with understanding complexity. They make assumptions based on their lack of understanding, they oversimplify problems. Which part of this is difficult to understand?
"I don’t know why you told us that you’re an engineer"
Because engineers are always having to reconcile requirements from people who lack a technical understanding. Why did I say it, because it was context to the agreement of the sentiment shared in the video.
"anybody who has contact with engineers could tell you that that they’re generally extremely stupid in areas they don’t have expertise in."
Oh really? You think that huh? It doesn’t sound like you know much about it to be honest.
Every single job and client I work for takes me into widely different domains, I have worked in the health, fitness, beauty, finance, music, electronics, marketing, sales, logistics, the military, automotive and more industries all in the last 5 years. Every single time I shift into one of those industries I need to have learned a reasonable amount of domain specific knowledge in order to solve problems in that space.
So, it is literally a prerequisite of the job to be the complete opposite of what you are implying.
"They are also known for thinking in dichotomies (due to the discrete nature of thinking often involved)."
This sentence doesn’t mean anything. I know you think it does. But it doesn't.
"You’ll find plenty of engineers at your local church or your local incel hangout. Don’t be proud of being an engineer."
Is this really the argument you are going with? Is this how you want to represent yourself? I will be kind and ignore it.
"Analogous language to communicate? Analogous to what, for what, and to who?"
Analogous to the problem you are trying to communicate. i.e. trying to find the balance in conveying the information accurately enough to not cause problems through a lack of resolution or improper/ incomplete analogy but simple/ relatable enough that they can understand.
"What are you capitulating to?"
Again, I did actually say this but ok. I am capitulating to the idea that IQ/ intelligence is an insurmountable inhibiting factor in communication (this conversation is if anything evidence of that).
"What is the larger problem you refer to?"
Not to sound like a broken record but this was the literal main body of the comment.
The larger problem is the thing I just said. That there does not seem to be a way to simplify some problems enough for some people to understand them.
"Why are you telling us about some unspecified internal battle? What is your point? 😂"
Again, literally what I said.
"People have limits, yes. What size and depth are you referring to?"
Again, what I just said.
"Every thought we have is abstract. Abstract thinking is also the most simple and general, the least cognitively demanding."
I know it’s less cognitively demanding, that is literally the point of the abstraction and what I was saying. Again, I was saying that no matter how much or how perfectly you abstract the constituent parts of some problems, that some problems are still too large for some people to retain and process.
"Are you wanting to talk about information bottlenecks? Dual processes?"
No, I was wanting to talk about exactly what I talked about which is why I talked about it.
"You’d think that as an engineer you wouldn’t talk about such basic things in such an uneducated manner, since this has some relevance to all fields of engineering."
As well as being a professional engineer I have a history studying behavioural psych. Also: before switching exclusively to engineering work over a decade ago I worked doing other things.
I have a pretty eclectic range of skills and interests.
"If you knew the first thing about cognition you’d also know that limits of parallel process and information storage is not even close to being a problem for anyone."
Yet here we are. With you struggling to understand even simple ideas.
"You’re using computer analogies and you miss these basics, so I question if you’re even an engineer."
Which computer analogies am I missing the basics of? Do you really want to start down this road? Pretending to know more than someone that is a literal expert in computers?
"Would an engineer use the word ‘proof’ when the correct word was ‘evidence’?"
No, I meant proof. As evidence implies that it is not confirmative and that was literally the implication I was making.
"You don’t have an intelligent or scientific bone in your body."
"The thing about smart mother fuckers is that sometimes, they sound like crazy mother fuckers to stupid mother fuckers…"
I like how this man knows math, its refreshing to see someone actually understand the term minority without a racial bias to it.
Really heartfelt input from Dr Glenn Loury. I think anyone who has the wisdom to see the bigger picture during these times is very, very welcome.
Jordan Peterson 2024. How did you just unpack his feelings in that way? Completely astounded! I would LOVE if you took a moment one of these days to share information on how enhance listening skills. This is truly a great clip. Thank you!
Tessa Mayors right? The girl who was murdered? It’s so strange to me how Floyd has been treated like a hero but Tessa’s name never gets mentioned. Someone explain?
The media loves to stoke racial divide in our country because if we unite as a people we can stop the psychos at the top from destroying our country for their own personal gain. They need us divided and they’ll do it on every level they can.
@@ootmaster1 - it’s to divide and conquer. A distracted and divided populace is easier to control. Don’t take the bait.
I’ll also add that there was a young white man (Tony Timpa) who was killed by police officers in the same way where he was suffocated to death and the cops were mocking him. There was no racial discrepancy between the man and the officers so the news doesn’t care.
@@ootmaster1 a cop didn't kneel on her neck.......
@@umiluv And who owns the media? Who is trying to set black against white? Who is using black people as proxy warriors?