The Truth About Mazda's Banned Supercar
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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Mazda pioneered the rotary engine and set out on a mission to prove that it was capable of beating anything with pistons. And after decades of racing and development, they finally created their masterpiece, the 787b. But when it came time for Mazda to race at the 24 hours of Le Mans, they were outright banned...
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#mazda #lemans #787b
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8 hours ago??
just kidding i know he just uploaded the video but posted the comment 8 hours ago
Isn’t this an old video? A re run broski really
What about the 12 rotor?
"it was deemed illegal"
correction: it was MADE illegal. it was never deemed illegal. the races it won, it adhered to the rules of. the rules it could not adhere to, were races it did not participate in.
consider phrasing yourself less like a clickbait bot.
So many still think this car was so dominant that it was banned, but it was quite the opposite. Mazda never really was a big player in Group C, but when the rules changed they had their final shot to win the big one - and that in itself is a big achievement. Many will fail under pressure, but they managed to put it all together one last time to finally achieve what they fought for all these years. Very remarkable.
The 787B pretty much won because the better cars crapped out. But full respect to Mazda, they did build a fully capable car
@Whyteeford you say that but all the competitors were running at the time it was in second but got first because merc broke down and besides the point what makes this car great is that in racing it's most stable power output that's balance doesn't upset chassis along with its lightweight fuel efficiency and reliability in racing because not many people realize this but rotarys are in reality the most reliable engine in racing sadly not as reliable on street but there is too much description behind that but anyways the fuel efficiency dominates the rest it's actually able to run a double stint for other teams as a single stint because it's tire management and fuel management and most people don't realize that in le mans the car actually was tuned down because they found that turning the tune down would have fuel efficiency go up 30% for a 8% power reduction that's not actual numbers except for the rough 30% fuel efficiency improvement but this comment is too long already I plan to make a video going over all the details in the future
Hey, there's this car called the Mazda RX792P that uses an engine almost identical to the Mazda 787B. It was built _after_ the 1991 24 Hours of Lemans race.
@sandasturner9529 yea rotarys weren't banned it's a misconception it was group c as a whole that was ended because they wanted to change it to be more like f1 with same engine types get rid of the variety and ruin it until imsa came around and made them see how stupid they were
Agreed, as great as the rotary was, Mazda could not compete in terms of outright pace. By the time R26B came into play, Mazda had sorted it out to make it super reliable, albeit down on power compared to the likes of Porsche, or even its domestic competition, Nissan And Toyota.
The reason the 787B was so reliable is because it was at high RPM constantly, rotaries are most reliable at high RPM, because at low RPM carbon build up starts to occur, which is why the apex seals are the main issue
If you want your rotary engine to last long, drive it hard, at least once a day
76k on my rx8 and i drive it like a bastard everytime, no hot or cold start issues, also raced it a few seasons aswell, but this is just the best advice, also premix
@@heeroguy Yeah premix and red lining are the way to keep a rotary healthy
Lol, you're not going to get any carbon build up on one race. They take these motors apart and rebuild them after every race.
The reason is was reliable is because they were allowed to run without the 350lbs they were supposed to have for the last race.
What I really love about Mazda is their persistent belief in doing things thier own way, even if it makes things more difficult or is a significant departure of proven solutions. From rotary engines, naturally aspirated petrol engines with high compression ratio, daring design and innovative features like in the Eunos Cosmo, and even striving to be a multi-brand group from small cars with Autozam to luxury cars with Amati - only money can limit their goals, not the doubt of others.
Same. My favorite car company. There's just so many "Go home Mazda, you're drunk" moments that they actually put into production. They're still doing it! It's like "Ok Mazda, we all need to make EVs now ok?" and Mazda goes and makes a usual, crappy, EV appliance crossover but then jams a rotary in it to use as a generator lol.
They've kept the Miata alive for this long...and made it less feminine looking over the years. For that, I'm grateful.
Now, if they could only manage to bring back the RX7, make it reliable, and as gorgeous as the FD🙏🏽
Yeah, and they still haven't put a turbo in a miata despite people saying it's too slow, which would make it heavier and much more expensive. I really respect that, they stick to their own formula.
@@szymusu I can't lie though...I'd love to see them release a supercharged Mazdaspeed Miata. Still keeping the normal N/A in the lineup though, of course.
this is pretty much honda to a tee when it comes to motorsport. they pretty much prefer to do things their way.
Did you know that after 1991, a rotary-powered Mazda car was back to Le Mans in 1994, right? And there were several rotary prototypes (Kudzu) racing there from 1995 onwards, and one even got the very same R26B engine that was used by the 787B in 1991. So in fact, Mazda + rotary were NEVER banned from Le Mans
count up how many braincells you lose everytime seeing this old myth being spewed around because i can physically feel it rotting my brain
yeah its funny how everyone wanted to go after the 3.5 engine but it only lasted one season, after that everyone went their own ways on engines with mazda making engines for the Kudzu LMP675 cars
I believe the class which they competed in was eliminated altogether, which a lot of people seem to confuse with a "ban". I could be getting my motorsport history's mixed up, but I believe that is the truth behind the disappearance of the 787b and subsequent models.
Honestly the story to the 787b and the engineering is much deeper and I actually been debating on explaning rotarys and racing in the future for this reason to compile all the info that gets left out in videos but this is a extremely hard task because im not making a script
It entered like 30 races and won one. Wow.
By shedding a ballast accounting for a quarter of its weight, thanks to race director pity for their last entry. Thats something eh .
Michael Schumacher is in that race that Mazda won....He's with the Mercedes Sauber team....This is also where Johnny Herbert got sick after the victory....he didn't even came in the podium....
Such a awesome story about the underdog! 🏁
@4:32 Bob fell so hard, that he forgot his name is Geoff
I always thought that this story deserved a Hollywood movie production of its own, such a great narrative
why? the movie would just 80% of everyone watching the 717,727,737,757,767 just fail at racing Lemans or even finishing it. then the other 20% would be watching the other C1 cars just drop out like flies from the race, the 787b won by luck and only luck.
What a stupid click bait title. The car wasn't "banned" at all. The FIA changed the rules, therefore making the car ineligible to enter the next year.
THIS
Exactly. FIA planned all teams should mount the 3.5L engines used in F1 so any maker who developed Turbo, Rotary or whatever different than an natural aspirated 3.5L engine wouldn't be alloud to compete. So, as you say, not banned, just new regulations.
@EnriqueThiele no.
English isn’t my first language but I think banning and changing the rule on experimental engines in 1992 is the same thing
Thanks for another video and you are very close to 300k though if you have time on 300k you should do a stream like all the other 1 mil youtubers
Thank you!
Rotary engines sound AMAZING‼️‼️‼️
The closest thing we can get to the 787B in Mazda civilian cars is the RX7 or RX 8.
This story was truly about GRIT...
still think the rx3 was the cutest coupe ever ,and a light weight V8 killer .the 7 just got to heavy .
Only 500 hp in 1987? Weren't the Porsche 917s making 800 hp way back in 1971??
Four stroke piston engine displacement is rated based on 2 revolutions of the crankshaft to fire all chambers. To join the billion 4 stroke engines in displacement ratings, the rotary displacement must also be based on 2 engine revs, not one. And ja the car was slow... To finish first you first have to finish! And at that moment the car was rated at 2.6 l instead of the actual displacement. None matters Mazda finished #1 🎉🎉 .
the only thing that MAZDA did was they left a huge mark in motorsport history as the first ever japanese manufacturer and as well as the only rotary engine powered car to win in the prestigious 24hrs of lemans...
the OG sigmas of the world
Better make cheaper reasonable maverick 12:00 that saleen truck aint do 80's-2000's size easy on insurance and afford labor parts
reliability, lol yay!
🎉
Yes you Piston Hater
how is this video so dead
We just posted!
They basically cheated their way to the most undeserved win in the history of Le Mans...
Brap brap brap! Has Mazda ever won a series or race on merit alone. Very good at politicing,, the reason they ever won here in Oz.
Noisy antisocial things that have always suffered from engine and ancilary issues. Stupid high exhaust temps and as a production based car very fragile gearboxes.
I have raced against no end of them in Australian Sports Sedans and seldom have been beaten by them. And my car raced [with a Chev] on about 10% of the budget. And far exceeded the reliability of the brap braps.
To be precise, Rotary was never banned on Le Mans nor "Endurance" but only at World Sportscars Championship series where Le Mans had their own regulations back then. After their win, there's a few rotary racecars still compete at Le Mans, from their IMSA GTO RX7 with 3 Rotor in 1994, Kudzus, to WR thanks to Jim Downing effort. Heck, even in this current regulation you can bring rotary to Hypercar class, it's just no one running it yet.
I find it hilarious that both the 717 and 787 scored their wins based on reliability and fuel efficiency. Two things that are meme worthy massive weaknesses of the rotary in popular parlance
Exactly haha
@bennyb.1742: Not all rotaries though. Remember, the 13b in the FD got a bad name because it was overengineered for the time, and was made with a lot of cheap parts to keep the cost down (I owned a '93). The older non-turbo rotaries in the FB and FC were pretty reliable though.
Their weak point was always the oil consumption. Apex seals weren't an issue until the 3rd gen.
Rotaries last longer when revved high
@@realherobrine5636precisely, i was tryna find someone who hasd said this. The only reason the rotary could survive the whole 24 with no.maintnence issues is because it was being pushed hard the whole 24, the wayit was built to be used.
I remember seeing interviews with Alan Moffat who ran the fb rx7 in the Australian Touring Car Championship going on about how reliable the rotary engines were and that Mazda Australia gave them more engines than they ever needed
Dorito engine go hard
This should become an actual movie about the history of Mazda's Early racing days to the win at Le mans like Ford V Ferrari. The driver that finished first had a broken leg and also health problem that you can see the mazda team carrying him. This one race was a truly one of the greatest moments in automotive history from some bored Mazda dealerships guys and their racing attempts to finally taste the victory after 2 decades. It was the Le mans car that could and it did beat them all in reliability, fuel efficiency and the race.
it’s not that good of a story, it’s just another basic le mans story
He had food poisioning
Thank you, finally, someone see's that this story needs a movie! And whoever says it doesnt, and that it's boring, needs to go back to focus on their goddamn ABC's, thank you.
@@duhlorean741 Yeah true the first reply guy definitely does
Definitely will watch that if it's happening
Fun fact: Mazda won Le Mans 8 times, but only the 787B took the overall victory. The fact that most of Mazda's other Le Mans victories were attributed to Mazda being the only one to compete in a particular class is another story. Every car that wins the 24h Le Mans wins because it should win, in Le Mans you don't win by chance.
13:00 sounds 2000's 14:40 ; 15:20 Roca wear est1999
16:00 ;16:38
2.6 to 4.0 liter 4 banger testing 18:00 ; 16:00 ; 17:50 ; 17:00 ; 18:39 note colors dan meaning
19:59 ; 21:00
Complete dribble.
Thank you for making a video on this legend
Fun Fact - RENOWN was still making clothing up until they filed for bankruptcy in mid 2020
As the old saying goes "To finish first, first you must finish".
Who else here has a Hot Wheels 787b?
The legend came back! Amazing production quality man
the engine was never illegal, in 1990 the rules for the new 3.5 F1 engine were going to be used for the 1992 season, so mazda knew that the 1991 LeMans was going to be their last chance since the new 3.5 F1 engine would be used for the 1992 season. thats the only thing, the engine was never illegal, it never got banned, just a change in the engine rules that got voted in back in 1990 for the 1992 season. kinda like everyone knew that the 1994 season would see the WSC group.
Not banned, just the last day of the old reg and this mazda got lucky. But win is a win. So, not banned
Conquering Le Mans is an astonishing accomplishment. Doing so in the incredible Group C is something else. Add a rotary engine to the mix and it's almost unbelievable.
A big congrats to the dedication of those engineers and drivers for persevering. Would love to see Mazda returning to Le Mans.
As usual, this was a superb production. Great research, editing and narration. I'm really beginning to enjoy your work.
Yeah ... if you think it is unbelievable, thats because it is. Mazda didnt run the 350lbs ballast they were supposed to. Thats a quarter of the total car weight. I dont believe the author missed that, rather he deliberately "forgot" to talk about it, as it didnt fit the narrative he was developping.
forget to add so many things...
1) the 787B was so outclased that the FIA allowed it to race at 850kg... 250kg ligther than the Jag... the one and only reason it was more full efficent and more reliable
2) with the weigth penalty they gave the Jag, it was impossible for them to win
3) Mercedes dominated the whole seaon and run into technical problems only at the 24h of LeMans
4) the Porsche 962 were already years of their peak and were still faster than Mazda in every other endurance race
5) Mazada was far from being the first winning races with rotary engines... this honor goes to NSU with their Wankel Spider which won the German Rally championship overall in 1966 driven by Karl-Heinz Panowitz and in 1967 and 1968 Siegfried Spieß won the german hillclimb championship overall.
6) Rotary was not pioneered by Mazda engineers and they did not pit the first rotary engine into production...that was NSU, Mazda was only the first to put a two rotor engine into a street car
all in all the win of the 787B was 90% luck and 10% performance
My dude got a RX7 and knew he wanted to make this video. Lol
Hahahahaha yep
24:07 The sheer dedication of Johnny Herbert :') Imagine giving it all till the very end
Albon Posts A Video... I Click It... Its That Simple. 🤷🏽
I love this story! I could listen to it over and OVER again!
Though being a Mazda enthusiast I wish MazdaSpeed would come back! Great video as ALWAYS!
lol all the other cars had 200 kg added ballast the jags wasnt ment to run at that weight . Also the ACO received 300 sports cars from Mazda and a replica 787b very strange .
If the phrase "f**k the meta!" was a car. It may not be the fastest but it showed you don't have to do the things the "right" way to succeed.
Having seen you included pictures from the 1991 sporting regulations appendix J, I assumed you'd be talking about Mazda being discounted on the Category 2 weight penalty and effectively being closer to a light C1 than to its classmates.
750-830-1000 kg
The extra 100 to 150 kg is what killed the Jaguars and the Porsches on pace and reliability
Well the C11s also had the weight penalty
@@ItzAnonyms it already weighed 1000kg the year before
The rotary engine was invented by a German engineer
Felix Wankel (born Aug. 13, 1902, Lahr, Ger.-died Oct. 9, 1988, Lindau, W.Ger.) was a German engineer and inventor of the Wankel rotary engine.
Mazda was the only car manufacturer who would put it into a car for he was turned down by almost every brand
Well, you are wrong. NSU did it first, and it was so bad they went under. Then citroen bought NSU and tried to. It was also a disaster and it lead them to bankrupcy too. Mazda had more money to throw at it so they didnt die off, but it never made them money basically
Also a crazy part of the story is that Volker Weidler, car #55's third driver lost one of his earplugs while driving the car. The super high-pitched scream from the rotary engine caused him permanent hearing damage, which also affected his sense of balance and he had to retire from racing altogether the next year. Quite tragic, he won Le Mans, but it cost him his career.
Yes, the crazy exhaust note resulted in vertigo as I recall. Once about 20 years ago at mighty Road America, during the IMSA American LeMans era, there was one 911 in particular that stood out. This dude was running headers from another planet, operating at an ungodly pitch right at the edge of some imaginary barrier. By the third day (after multiple practice sessions, qualifying, then the race), with a touch of a hangover, this one freaking car out of a huge pack in the various classes was making me physically ill, no shit. So I totally get it! Weird. 🏁
🙌🏽 Dorito power
Nothing else sounds like it either.
Rotary engines sound amazing 😢
Mazda's one podium finish ever in their entire endurance career...and somehow the car became a legend like it was dominant. It's a great cinderella story but it really kinda ruins the tale when car gets portrayed as some dominant beast that needed to be banned for anyone else to have a chance. It was the car that *at best* qualified 12 seconds slower a lap and was 2 laps down when the lead car had a clutch failure. The true magic of the 787b le mans win is because it had absolutely zero chance of competing...but somehow it the stars aligned, the Mercedes failed, car 55 held together and decided to go full-send and not take the reserved approach they were planning on.
So, couple clarifications. The 787b was never banned. All cars were required to change engines, and mazda didnt want to. More important, the 787b didnt have better fuel efficiency. it ran WITHOUT the 350lbs ballast it was supposed to run with. Why ? Because mazda officials went crying to race officials as they were not competitive, so they asked to run without. Officials took pity on them since it was the last and allowed it ... And at that point mazda tuned the engine up. Still, the only reason they won is everyone in front broke down. And there are still people worshipping those cheaters ... You want to see those group C competing today ? Come to the Castellet in France for the 10,000 laps of Castelet, august 30 - sept 1, 2024 . you will see those 962C and silk cut jaguars. 787B though ? nope ...
I always love underdog stories. This one as equivalent good as Ford v Ferrari.
Mazda till this day remains an underdog compared to its Japanese counterarts. Persistent? Most definitely!
maybe to Toyota and Honda, but not the others anymore
12:10 „Is he actually gonna show the Mercedes footage? He isn‘t gonna show the Mercedes footage is he? Oh, YUP. HE IS.“
16:43 Technically incorrect, the rotary(Wankel) engine was first created by Dr. Felix Wankel. The engineers at Mazda just improved upon his design. You did a lot of research for this video, yet failed to acknowledge the father of the Wankel engine, you know, the man whom which it is named after......
13:43 I can imagined how funny it went.
Engineers: Can we make a 3-rotors?
HQ: Well, yes.
Engineers 1 minute later.. : Okay, here it is.
HQ: Great!!
I was at Le Mans for the Mazda years. Even got into the pit but non pf the mechs spoke english so it was all arm waving. Great motor, great car and what a sound!! :)
My 18 yr old Mazda has endured me for 7 years, still shiny and runs like a Swiss watch. Love Mazda.
The Mazda engineers never took the L.
I love them rotary engines
I don't think I have ever heard the words reliable and rotary in the same sentence. I am hoping that in the next few years, a company like DuPont will make an Apex seal that will not need to be replaced every 5 tanks of gas lol
I hate it when people pronounce it "LeMawwww" or "LeMoe". We're Americans, we say "LeMahnzzz"
8:56 what am I looking at
fb rx7
Seems like a editing issue or something.
Dude did you call 60s Le Mans a NEW endurance race? It is the most famous endurance race since the 1920s
Did anyone else notice an artifact on the side of his face? Looked like compression or maybe a greenscreen glitch? Might just be my computer
6:10 Mazda even have Lightning Mcthunder, a sentient sparkle in their crew (He was bitten by mutated electric eel when he was young)
Makes zero sense for the regulations not to allow a smaller engine. Thats the dumbest shit ever.
I am Japanese. There is a stone monument engraved on the Mazda test course that reads "Unrelenting Challenge."
Mazda is my favorite out of the 'regular' car makers. I've owned a Mazda continuously for over a decade. From Miatas to CX-5s. My first sportscar was an NB Mazdaspeed, and I've owned an NC2.5, ND1, and ND2. I've since moved on to Porsche for sportscars, but I own a CX-50 as a daily. I really hope Mazda makes the Iconic SP. If it's any good, it could entice me back to getting another Mazda sportscar.
Even their normal cars look great, built quality is excellent too
I got Mazda 323, FB rx7, Mazda 3 and RX8> Mazda is great
717c 4 banger size, arch weight displacement balance planted downforce
GT-C class 500,000 miles displacement before up grading
❤ #Toyota GR Corolla ❤️
The rototy engine was designed by Dr. Wrankle who worked for Audi.
I wasn't gonna subscribe but then you said scrilla. I'm in.
Thanks Albon!🫵🤡
What a fantastic story and so well told. Mazda owe you a beer!
This is my most driven car on gran turismo 7, anyone else?
When your going up against Mercedes, Porsche, Jaguar, Ferrari. You never had a chance to win
Fearrari didnt come back to LeMans until 1995
Quality commentary as always mate, loved this one, the perfect summary of an amazing race. I finally managed to see the 767B in action a few weeks ago in Adelaide, now just need to track down an event with the 787B running :)
didn't felix wankel a german create the rotary from a dream he had
This Engine Is Illegal ......... No its not........ nice clickbait
Hey Albon, any thoughts on bringing back the "why you cant afford" series? Would love to see it expand maybe even dabble in european or american tuner cars :)
Anyone else just watch this just to hear that sweet sweet exhaust note
Oh, its that one hotwheels car
Yo I didn't know we had a racetrack here in sebring
They need to bring back the Mazda Furaiiiiiiiiiiiii ~~~
A lot of young people don't realise how far back rotors go, yes Chevrolet were first but Im super glad Mazda's 70's and 80's development played out the way it did giving us the RX3. RX4 and then RX7 (i realise there were cars before these eg r100) and the 3/4 rotor configurations. A win is a win however you spin it, and its history. I hope Mazda Motorsport continue to tour the world with the historic cars of this era so people can see and hear them in person.
Gang Gang.
The thing about the 787B is what we rotary guys now understand, the more rotors, the more reliable the engine is. But alas the more rotors, the more fuel the car's guzzle.
The best way to get a reliable rotary powered car is to swap a conventional engine in it. Sorry, not sorry XD
@@TontonCrousti-v2m then it stops being rotary. Which just shows how smooth brained such jokes and people who tell them are.
The Morgan & Morgan butt-case..
The Japanese guy was never known as Mr Le mans to any meaningful extent. Only 2 drivers have ever earned that exhalted title, Jackie Ickx, with 6 wins, and a career that saw him drive, and win, for Ferrari in Formula 1. And of course the great Tom Kristensen, who won 9 times at Le Mans.
Most fun car that I ever had was an rx3 station wagon in original silver gray. It had an IMSA racing engine in it and would do 160 mph. Hidden aerodynamic changes to keep it from becoming a flying brick.
05:43 that's footage from Australia 😂😂
*brap* *brap* *brap* *brap* *RAAAAAAAAAAH* *RAAAAAAAAAAH* *RAAAAAAAAAAAH*
Now I know the origin of the Mazdaspeed A-Spec "Type 2" FD RX-7 running lights come from, the 717C
Le Mans wasn’t new at the time of the Cosmo, and it wasn’t just then “taking over the world”. Le Mans is the oldest endurance race in the world, first run in 1923
Persistence is the only way a rotary owner can be described... yes we're nuts but I've owned my FD since 2010 and still loving every moment of it...thanks for the video... it made my day