Such an encouraging message. As one who is currently displaced because of the toxic church cultures I’ve been apart of, what was talked about here and in the book “A Church Called Tov” I find a glimmer of hope that there are men who actually see the plight of the abused behind the church doors. All glory to God for this!
I very much liked this talk. There’s a great book called “when narcissism comes to church“ by Chuck DeGroot. The problem with narcissists is that they can never admit their sins. Churches are a great place for abusers to hang out, because many times there are no real checks and balances. They can’t really be disciplined for what they’re doing. I will be reading this book on TOV. Thank you for adding to the discussion. God‘s blessings.
I really appreciated this talk and agreed with a great deal of what he said. Messages like this are timely and needed within the church today. He anticipated that some people would be hesitant to agree with him when he said; "I don't like the term 'leader' for a pastor..." (20:30). I am among those that struggled to accept this idea. The OT idea of a shepherd is quite literally a leader, which is why God spoke so harshly to the wicked leaders of the people in Ez 34 and elsewhere. Both Romans 12 and 1 Cor 12 identify the spiritual gift of leadership. 1 Tim 3 lists higher qualifications for leaders. If no one is a leader, do anyone need to meet those qualifications? The NT warns against blind loyalty to a human leader (1 Cor 1, 3 Jn 1:9) but also recognizes that some people are in leadership in local churches ( 1 Tim, Titus and Hebrews). I imagine that he was probably trying to get at some very specific point, and I would love to know more of what he meant by that statement. However, as I heard it in this video, it seemed like he was advocating for leadersless flocks.
A. 1. Power over; 2. Power to influence; 3. Power with; 4. power for another; B. Form TOV character C. Discern church culture D. Build a coalition for TOV E. Be the example F. Trust God G. Become hospitable so we can serve our community. C.
Julie, really love this and the work you put into this, and I believe it could be really good to put time trackers in the description. This is literally gold.
As I listen to this, my spirit landed on 2nd Corinthians 5 and how Paul defines Jesus as the Minister of Reconciliation and us as His ambassadors. Therefore, we are to be co- ministers of reconciliation and a Church full of people sold on this heart set would be a Tov Church!!!!
Over the years I have said that a person who is making disciples who makes disciples has never given me any trouble outside of some disagreements. They want to reach people with the gospel and help those people to become all God wants them to be. Making disciples requires giving away your power and control for the betterment of the other person. Making disciples is about correct doctrine and correct practice. It is about character development mostly. It requires that each person learn to make Jesus the celebrity and serve him.
As I see this, repentance is a more biblical term for what we are to do than reformation. Reformation, or more accurately, transformation, is something only God can do.
Such an encouraging message. As one who is currently displaced because of the toxic church cultures I’ve been apart of, what was talked about here and in the book “A Church Called Tov” I find a glimmer of hope that there are men who actually see the plight of the abused behind the church doors. All glory to God for this!
I really like what was said about leadership. We shouldn’t have leaders, we should have followers.
This talk was VERY informative & well done! Thankseverso for posting this!
I very much liked this talk. There’s a great book called “when narcissism comes to church“ by Chuck DeGroot. The problem with narcissists is that they can never admit their sins. Churches are a great place for abusers to hang out, because many times there are no real checks and balances. They can’t really be disciplined for what they’re doing. I will be reading this book on TOV. Thank you for adding to the discussion. God‘s blessings.
I really appreciated this talk and agreed with a great deal of what he said. Messages like this are timely and needed within the church today.
He anticipated that some people would be hesitant to agree with him when he said; "I don't like the term 'leader' for a pastor..." (20:30). I am among those that struggled to accept this idea. The OT idea of a shepherd is quite literally a leader, which is why God spoke so harshly to the wicked leaders of the people in Ez 34 and elsewhere. Both Romans 12 and 1 Cor 12 identify the spiritual gift of leadership. 1 Tim 3 lists higher qualifications for leaders. If no one is a leader, do anyone need to meet those qualifications? The NT warns against blind loyalty to a human leader (1 Cor 1, 3 Jn 1:9) but also recognizes that some people are in leadership in local churches ( 1 Tim, Titus and Hebrews).
I imagine that he was probably trying to get at some very specific point, and I would love to know more of what he meant by that statement. However, as I heard it in this video, it seemed like he was advocating for leadersless flocks.
Bravo! God bless
man this is good stuff and needed
A. 1. Power over; 2. Power to influence; 3. Power with; 4. power for another;
B. Form TOV character
C. Discern church culture
D. Build a coalition for TOV
E. Be the example
F. Trust God
G. Become hospitable so we can serve our community.
C.
Julie, really love this and the work you put into this, and I believe it could be really good to put time trackers in the description. This is literally gold.
I thought the first couple of minutes was very charismatic 🙌🏼
As I listen to this, my spirit landed on 2nd Corinthians 5 and how Paul defines Jesus as the Minister of Reconciliation and us as His ambassadors. Therefore, we are to be co- ministers of reconciliation and a Church full of people sold on this heart set would be a Tov Church!!!!
Over the years I have said that a person who is making disciples who makes disciples has never given me any trouble outside of some disagreements. They want to reach people with the gospel and help those people to become all God wants them to be. Making disciples requires giving away your power and control for the betterment of the other person. Making disciples is about correct doctrine and correct practice. It is about character development mostly. It requires that each person learn to make Jesus the celebrity and serve him.
We need reformation, again and again
As I see this, repentance is a more biblical term for what we are to do than reformation. Reformation, or more accurately, transformation, is something only God can do.
What is the definition of TOV and how is it different from good ?
Good question. I think this video would have more viewers by describing it in the title.