@@KINGJTH6306bro fat buu LITERALLY dogged and toyed with majin vegeta who was stated to be STRONGER than gohan was when he went super sayian 2 what is wrong with these folks lmao
Yea like two ppl that were considered equal and even stronger than super cell got no diffed by fat buu instantly so that take just cannot be agreed with if u actually watched the buu arc
Now i can see Cell having some wincons against Fat Buu and even better against Good Buu (After evil Buu was Born) 'cause Dabura was said to be on Cell's level but then later on It was said he was a bit stronger so he's supposedly stronger than Perfect Cell but weaker than Super Perfect 'cause Dabura struggled against a rusty Ssj2 Gohan while Cell with Little effort broke a prime Ssj2 Gohan and to take down Cell It was needed to be distracted by Vegeta and It took a Rage boost for Gohan in order to beat him but he'd need to be Super Perfect to have a chance against Fat Buu or Good Buu (and on a unrelated note Super Perfect Cell annihilates Second Coming Broly)
That’s just being too generous cmon now…… Fat Buu who fought SUPER SAIYAN FUCKING 3!!! GOKU…. Gets clapped by PERFECT FORM or SUPER PERFECT FORM…. Cell………… yeah ok that makes sense have a good day🙂
Goku spends a lot of time in the anime spending time with Goten in DBS. During when he is farming in the fields and even he went out shopping to get gifts for Chichi. Even complimenting the social cues and manners Goten displayed there that were taught to him by Chichi. Then there is Yo Son a Goku & Friends Return Special!, (which is canon), where he is actively encouraging Goten and letting him Fight Abo & Cado. Goku has been a great father Goten after coming back to life in the Buu Saga. Heck even before was alive again he calmly greeted his second son for the fist time, taught him & Trunks fusion, and demonstrated SSJ3 for them.
the crazy thing is that during the hit rematch arc goku was literally chilling at home with goten and chichi for weeks at that point and people seem to forget that but honestly I lowkey agree that gohan isn't a great dad because he's more focused on his work than his daughter when they literally live in the same house he has no excuse and he still makes piccolo train her and pick her up from school consistently because in the movie this is literally not the first time this has happened. Also I just realized he literally works online in the movie this man has no excuse he doesn't even need to come into work anymore
It's absolutely bonkers to say Gohan is a bad dad because he forgot to pick up Pan from school one time. At least he had Piccolo go get her. And Pan loves Piccolo
17:07 the bad parental move was Piccolo telling him “bro it’s your kid drop your project and pick her up” and him going “well I’ll know you’ll do it” but even then the second she is in danger he crashed the fuck out for her that man did a shitty to his daughter because he put too much focus on his stupid big project but he made up for it INSTANTLY
I could rock with that Frieza/Cooler idea. Cooler and Frieza train together, and while Frieza goes gold, Cooler finds that same form from his movie. You can call it the same power-up expressed in a different way. Frieza prefers the look of his true form, so Gold kept the shape and size. Cooler had less of a desire to keep his look locked to that true form, hence why his expression of this new power is so drastically different. If you want, you can even make Cooler still stronger than Frieza. That way you can have a 1v1 with Goku and Cooler and a 1v1 with Vegeta and Frieza. Goku still gets to fight the strongest, while Vegeta gets to have the kill on Frieza.
but this ain’t what he was saying gang. he literally says to establish cooler mask form , and to challenge & be defeated by Goku. also explicitly doesn’t want cooler to surpass frieza again. the issue is cooler would never knowingly be fodder compared to frieza, especially if he sees his bro GLOWING GOLD 😂 I can see him being weaker but no shot he wouldn’t have any desire to unlock the form or a new one
Bro thought he was cooking, Cell is no where NEAR being the best villain in Dragonball. Frizea and Goku Black/Zamasu are honestly my picks for best villains. Yes, Frizea gets smacked around but each time he reappears he ACTUALLY posed a threat. Cell begged Vegeta to get his Perfect Form, if he didn't then Cell would've been space dust
@@HimenoWYD nope frieza negs cell, cells literally created by a petty human and steals peoples dna, freizas aspects makes cell cool, freiza himself has so much more to offer
Jiren boring. They literally decided to give him a backstory like a few episodes to the end, and it's just a generic "I lost my family" backstory. And then he destroyed any goodwill he had by attacking Goku's friends. You should really read the manga. It handled him and his story much better.
they easily coulda made jiren like this He's selfish and was bored and numb since he's been stronger than a god for years and the reason he's not eliminating everyone at the start of the tournament is because he finally senses a challenge, don't make him about justice make him someone who fights people and kills innocents for the sake of forcing them to get stronger, that woulda been more interesting than his sasuke backstory with unexplainable power and for no reason he meditates and doesn't eliminate everyone right away IMO
the backstory doesnt matter tho it's just suppose to show his mindset. Him attacking goku's friends also shows that. he's suppose to be a reflection of goku's journey in Z
@@baked7423 His backstory does matter given that it makes him a much less interesting and less likeable character than when he was just an obstacle with a face and occasional voice. Whatever they were going for with him, they missed the mark and turned an otherwise cool character into a bitch that'll resort to some pussy shit when he's not getting his way. Versus the manga where he still maintained some level of respectability thanks in part to his backstory being better fleshed out there.
@@espurrseyes42 it doesnt matter because his character is the same without it. It just helps show how he got to where he is. If it makes him more of a bitch in ur eyes thats subjective. The manga jiren is better personality wise but it sacrifices the narrative for it. The anime does the whole parallel much better while the manga makes jiren more of a warrior but that leads to him not actually having an arc
@@baked7423 It's literally not. Jiren without the backstory is just a strong guy that likes being strong. Jiren WITH his backstory is a guy pursuing power as a result of the tragedies in his life and not caring about his allies because of his belief in absolute power and that he's too strong to need help from others. He very much does have an arc in the manga. And it's done better since there's an actual focus on it unlike the anime. He's not a team player for the reasons previously stated, so his master had him join the Pride Troopers in hopes that he'd learn the value of working with others. Something he ultimate doesn't learn, casting aside his allies her were unable to save themselves from elimination. And it was that attitude towards teamwork that got him defeated by the combined efforts of Goku, Frieza, and Vegeta (17 was hiding out in the manga and didn't rejoin the battle). Belmond literally spells all this out during the fight when he's giving Jiren's more fleshed out backstory. You either didn't read the material (typical DB fan moment), or you're just an idiot. One way or the other, Jiren does have an arc in the manga, and it's done without compromising his character like the anime did, having him mald over Goku having friends and shooting at them on some Frieza BS because he's salty about losing.
I woulda introduced Cooler in the universe 6 tournament as an alternative to Frost. Cause to me it don’t make sense to try to introduce him this late in the story without him ever being mentioned by Frieza, Cold, King Kai, or Beerus
The only take from sage that I genuinely disagree with is his takes on the Bojack movie. Bojack himself is ass for sure, but everything else about it was great
When was the last time you watched that movie? If literally fighting is the only think you care about, then i can understand why you and other would like that movie
@@supersaiyangodsupersaiyanm7886 what, that movie connects the dots of grey area between cell saga and buu saga which the series itself doesn't cover so whatchu on about, it's not just fighting it shows vegetas depression and gokus afterlife
I hate the Dbs super heroes movie more a lot of reasons, one of the biggest is calling Goku a bad dad. Then they depict Gohan as a bad dad, then they make Piccolo look like a great parent. The superhero movie is so disappointing, I get the action is good but the story, no
the movie makes 0 sense tbh,only thing I liked was Mystic gohan and vegeta finally being happy he won, beast and orange look silly, and gamma being God level made 0 sense and cell max is garbage
@@IIIISai Gamma gets a pass given that Gero made numerous Androids stronger than 100% Frieza and even post-3-year training SSJ Goku and Vegeta at the highest. Without having known about the gang going to Namek or studying them during the Frieza return and training period.
Honestly, I feel like Golden Frieza but not Golden Cooler COULD theoretically work, considering Frieza's relations with both the Saiyans and Cooler. To my understanding, Frieza specifically made his next form a golden reversion of his fourth form to mock the original yellow-haired Super Saiyan (feel free to correct me if I am mistaken). The way I see it, while yes, Frieza and Cooler aren't exactly fond of Saiyans, Frieza would likely have "more beef" with them than Cooler due to his past experiences with Goku and Trunks. Therefore, while Frieza would develop Golden specifically to mock them in addition to the power amp, Cooler might not be as inclined to do the same due to his sibling rivalry with Frieza, pride in his own race, and comparative lack of personal grievances with Goku and the others on Earth. I think that while Cooler may still accompany Frieza in order to restore his family's honor (mirroring his motivations in DBZ: Cooler's Revenge), he may choose to further develop his Fifth Form instead of unlocking Golden because he would rather rely on the might of his own race than mimic the Saiyan's parlor tricks or copy his brother. Now, as to how the MOVIE or ARC would change with the addition of Cooler, I have NO IDEA, I'm simply referring to what I thought would happen if specifically Frieza was training with Cooler and why they might not both roll up to Earth with Golden. Feel free to break my arguement down wherever and however you think it falls flat, as I'm relatively new to this side of media as a whole and DEFINITELY know a lot less than a lot of long-term Dragon Ball fans. Thank you for making your way through this wall of text, and have a nice day.
That’s cool and all but Golden Cooler and Golden Metal Cooler from SDBH are raw af so opinion discarded (btw they gave GMC the coolest Super Nova he forms 3 at once imagine Blue Vegeta and Goku getting like 3K Supernovas chucked at them on New Namek)
"agenda must agend" takes are hilarious bruh. perfect cell probably goes mid-high diff with dabura, never mind what ANY version of buu would do to that mf 😭
I can't say the Shadow Dragon ARC was good but I did like 3/7 of the Shadow Dragons and I don't think I need to explain which ones. Plus I liked the concept of the show started with the Dragonballs so we're gonna end it with the Dragonballs.
Broly 2 i definitely felt was a better showing bcuz for the most part he was holding his own by himself against broly who he stated is as strong as ever and in the previous movie we watched broly dog walk 4 saiyans n a fused namekian vs bojack who we really only seen jump the Z fighters with his crew and even in that final fight they were still jumping even with bojacks power up
I don't do paragraph comments but, I really thought homie was about to cook with a similar take and he just shit the bed. (So cont. if you like) (Making Cooler Canon) 11:15 So a way I thought they could add Cooler that ACTUALLY would have made sense would have been to have Gohan fight him. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed Super Hero but I think we all thought him fighting Cell again was lazy as hell. Instead have Cooler come down either looking for Broly after hearing about the events that happened in the Broly movie to try to restore some honor back to their family's name. Like they did with King Cold the Z-Fighters would notice the Frieza-like ki just stronger or at least relative to T.O.P Frieza. Cooler would prolly still have his own Armored squadron (I'm personally thinking only two though this time to replace the Gammas) and they'd storm through the human fighters to have trouble with Piccolo but eventually beat him and take Pan assuming she belongs to Broly this would force not only Gohan into the fight but Piccolo to still make his strength wish. To wrap it up (I'd love to go into more detail low-key) everything plays out PLOT WISE damn near the same as Super Hero. Gohan goes down with Piccolo to get Pan they'll fight the henchmen which will have them power up and get the rust off of Gohan. They'll start to fight Cooler, Piccolo will get "Bodied" (Knowing Cooler low-key he just might and if we're REALLY getting crazy he might off Pan 💀)and then Gohan snaps and still transforms into Beast. All should be in order but that's simplifying it.
Idk about allat but I fw the passion and agree there can be a good way to implement cooler as cannon, and it's easy to explain why cooler wasn't present this whole time, if he's on the other side of the universe thriving as emperor and friezas dead, it makes sense why cooler never came around, so they can play on some freiza lore and connecting the dots to super
Hot take: Bulma is the most hoed side character in the series even more then vegeta is(funny cause they are married) Side note: don’t take this rant personally, it’s just for fun and i genuinely want to know how ya feel about this take out side me being accused of rage bate Reasons: 1. She consistently gets sidelined from being the secondary protag by backwater characters(all of the Z fighters) even though 1 the show is named dragon ball due to the adventure she started when she made the dragon radar and 2 she’s a founding father of the Z fighters 2. She was brought to namek just to be made fun of when she could’ve played a more prominent role then just sitting in a cave watching the dragon balls 3. (Future timeline) her best friend get macked by a heart disease then some horny old man from Redhub creates robots to Mack all her friends, which forces her to create a Time Machine just to find out that the past doesn’t change the future so she’s cooked regardless 4. She creates a remote that can kill the same androids that macked the z fighters in the future, gives it to the second most trusted adult she knows just for him to get horny and break it which allowed cell to become perfect 5. Got macked by Majin Buu, I just don’t like how dirty Buu did my homies this is a nit pick 6. Got smacked by Beerus just for her homies to not spin the block, they got cooked so bad they started begging bro to train them and to this day VEGETA specifically has not spun for his love(bro has to be a cuck) 7. Is only ever needed for the dragon balls or to contact whis when’s she more value than that I’m tired of the bulma disrespect, I need a movie dedicated to my glorious queen
Bro I missed the best arguments, cell is literally just dabura level and he got f up. Like I'm pretty sure it was stated so, also w stream when I there
@TSO_Sage so...remember when vegeta trained trunks and used blue? Also remember trunks in ssj2 is just as strong as ssj3 goku...somewhat 🤣. Trunks has been through a lifetime of struggle with two instances of training...or 3. Him and vegeta in z. Him and the ki. But the key is Him with vegeta being exposed to God ki. He already had an abnormal strong ssj2, so I don't think it's out the realm of possibility for a hybrid, who's been through hell to unlock a unique form. Especially when you seen yo moms get obliterated by this said person. I think beast gohan and broly are giving us a look into prodigy and hybrid
Bojack Movie is the equivalent to when WWE fed Sheamus, Alberto Del Rio, Rusev & Wade Barrett(The League of Nations) be fed to Roman Reigns(back when Roman was hated for being a good guy)😂 Roman: Gohan Sheamus: Bojack Am I wrong?😂
I definitely enjoyed the shadow dragon arc way more than most of the super anime to me the super anime should’ve started at the universe 6 arc we didn’t need worse versions of the BOG and ROF movies for bout the first 30 episodes of the anime universe 6 should’ve gotten explored more instead, future saga starts strong but then u get to the 2nd half n just like this ain’t it TOP definitely best arc in super n the only arc o can say is actually better than all of GT for super
10:56 I don't want to be that guy, but didn't you make fun of the people saying defending Yamcha with the Saibamen kamikaze which is the damn near the same thing except Cell made it out alive. If someone sneaks you and kills you despite being weaker, they won.
Imo GT isn’t as bad as people make it out to be for me personally once GT gets to the general rildo arc to me gt is good it does have some bad moments especially with most of the shadow dragons but for me baby,super android 17,shadow dragons,baby and general Rildo was all good arc to Me, plus GT peaks are way higher than Super peaks for me personally GT>Super
12:50 OK. I kinda get what this dude means. Write it so Frieza's potential is higher than Cooler, while Cooler did not necessarily work for his power and just was stronger in base. Since we know Cooler found out a higher level of transformation. He did not train for it. He could have easily been an artificial mutant while Frieza was an actual mutant in terms of power.
Ive always had the take for a while now at least, why didnt king kai help gohan or trunks or bulma during trunk's timeline, about the andriods? I refuse to believe that king kai, that training the guy who beat freiza, a SPACE HITLAR, and his father who might be as strong as him, saving the universe, doesn't care about earth or cant do anything because the andriods aren't a universal threat. He just like "thanks for helping out with that freiza thing and bringing universal peace from a planet conquering empire... but i cant help you with these robots because i dont feel like or i cant do anything about, because theres some rule in place about me interfering. But thanks anyways" and he just sees all the other z fighters dying and showing up to his planet like "bro, you gonna help us?"
future trunks has tons of plot holes but you'll always have someone try to headcannon-splain it, don't overthink the timeline, i overthought it and now see future gohan differently, he seems like such s dumb character in hindsight toriyama thought of the timeline frozen until the special began
@@IIIISai not even the timeline. As the other z fighters died by the andriods, where do they go? Just straight to heaven or hell or go back to king kais? You mean to tell me piccolo, kami, tien, chaiotzu, Yamcha and krillan all died and didn't give a message to king kai or better yet, the told him and he said "naw"? No shot he dosnt do anything about as the people he trained died when half his roster fought freiza and he trained the guy who beat/killed freiza (in the trunks timeline). He saved the universe from space hitler, that's gotta count for something, a favor, anything
@@Lokoclutch98 you're correct, also piccolo risking his life instead of being in hiding with gohan made 0 sense, so from the jump the premise doesn't make sense, once he fused with kami he would be more careful, and as you've given examples for king kais absence isn't explained, I'd assume the z fighters are on kais planet and vegeta is in hell without a body, so yea timeline is a bit plot holey, also the androids were stated as killers right and destroy when they're bored so how come the world wasn't destroyed after 13 YEARS, they just played patty cake with gohan and trunks for that long, and gohan and trunks happened to be with the androids out of all the places in the world for that long ? gohan not getting enough zenkais by then, and bulma comviently making a time machine After 13 years once gohan dies, very plot holeish
Not gonna lie, Baby and shadow dragon arc is better than everything in super besides TOP and the manga arcs. I would say Black arc too but the execution of that arc is god awful and I think they could have done so many things better.
People talk about "Oh this proves Goku is a bad dad." "That proves Goku is a bad dad." and people find ways to argue it. _Shows picture of Goku throwing Cell a Senzu bean._ Goku is a bad father, your argument is invalid.
@@gdmewmewgod6653 "Here you go, biomechanical android with Saiyan cells _who gets a Zenkai boost_ , take this healing bean before you fight my only son who I just sent out to fight you after fighting you first myself." Great parenting, eh?
Man literally died for his kid. Then came back just in time to save his kid. Then wanted his kid to get out of the fight with Vegeta until things started going good for the team. Then pep-talked his kid TWICE to help him do the things he needed to do in order to beat Vegeta. I think he gave him another pep talk too when he got body swapped and his kid had to beat up Ginyu in his body. And as for that Senzu Bean moment, he did that because he had faith in his kid's potential and wanted him to realize it. And then immediately wanted to jump Cell when he realized his mistake about his kid. Also he died AGAIN to save his kid after he made a fatal mistake, and then gave him another pep-talk to help him win a Beam Struggle against the revived Cell. Also, you don't know how Zenkais work. It has to be a NEAR DEATH experience to proc. Cell simply being low on power and energy with some injuries isn't going to make him stronger. And apparently getting everything from the waste up blown apart didn't give him a Zenkai, so everything Goku did to him after that point wouldn't have. Typical DB fan being ignorant about the show he claims to like.
i would question about cell being more powerful than fat buu- at least super perfect cell anyway. Only because it took literally all the Z fighters. all of SS2 teen gohan’s strength, and the help of Vegeta to just distract Cell’s attention and throw him off his game for Cell to be wiped out… im not down playing fat buu, but i do feel like we didn’t get to see the full strength of Cell in his super perfect form. I feel there is some debate on it is all, i don’t trust myself for it to be fact.
No is not, first it was just Vegeta in the mamga that attaked Cell, second Dabura eas stablized to be as strong as perfect Cell and he was one shot by fat Buu
Yeah tbh it feels like people saw it after the Cell saga and might've seen it as Gohan coming into his role as protector of Earth. Too bad it's not canon and didn't really matter
Genuinely curious how? I thought the line was worded super weird but I essentially view it as “put some respect on my fathers name” which is pretty in character for Gohan.
@@ghostlegend9723 mostly cause goku and gohan just went through a whole im different from my father ark and then immediately goes and talks about him being like his father
@@JustBagon it clearly went over your head, he's taking pride in being the son of goku, has nothing to do with being the same overall lmao, also what arc did they have about being different, goku just understood gohans merciful side, but gohan still has a demon
Second Coming Broly is more interesting than Bojack. I don’t like either. Also Ngl I think I’m someone who just loves dragon ball. Cause I dunno depending on circumstances I have a different top 3 characters. I’m in some weird phase of my life where I like fat Buu Merged Zamasu and Baby are some of my favorite characters. It just comes down to mindset. So just know these characters I love when I speak my take.
That Cooler take isn’t awful. Cooler isn’t written to be a prodigy that rivals or even surpasses Freeza, that was never the case. The only reason Cooler had his evolved form is because he actually trained, unlike King Cold and Freeza who just naturally had unimaginable power. Cooler was arrogant and thought he was better because he didn’t think he was spoiled like Freeza and actually had to “pull up his bootstraps and work” like everyone else, him not achieving golden as easily as Freeza honestly makes sense.
I'm not gonna lie perfect cell would mop everyone in supers verse if having goku vegetta gohan piccolo cells he should have there transformations or power
If you wanna use goku training with whis for 6 months for being a bad dad wouldn't you also have to say Vegeta in super is a bad to present day trunks to
Also you don’t need to be a powerscaler to prove fat buu is stronger than cell 💀. Vegeta straight up said SSJ 2 Goku was stronger than Gohan when he beat cell. That same Goku had to pull out SSJ 3 to fight fat buu. Not to mention Vegeta who fought equally (with SSJ2) Goku had to blow himself up to not even kill fat buu lol
Time to air my grievances with y'all. DBS Fans are annoying. DBGT Fans are delusional. DBS Fans stay yapping about Goku outside of his own verse, putting him scenarios where he most likely loses. They in denial because most people don't like the idea of Goku losing, which also applies to GT Fans. They also on average, don't know what the hell they be talking about, when debating with other fans. Inconsistent scaling and ridiculous powercreep all the damn time, to the point where people can say with their whole chest that SSJ2 Caulifa could beat a Goku Black Arc SSB Goku and be right. That just sounds wrong. Super could've def used another 2 years to cook, because the art quality shows they cut mad corners. They also should've never made that dumbass explanation of Goku absorbing his Initial SSG into his base, because that's were most of our scaling problems come from. DBGT Fans like to conveniently forget the first half of GT, like it didn't happen. The literally only thing GT Fans have are good villans in concept, and Super Saiyan 4. MF's wanna also forget the first 4 Shadow Dragons, they only wanna take about the last 3. Gee, I wonder why? Don't wanna talk about the constantly reusing frames right? On average, I bet most of y'all can't even remember the planet Baby comes from. Spoiler alert, it's not Plantet Plant or Tuffle. At least Super Fans can manage that. Also no, GT Goku cannot run the hands with his Super Counterpart, nor any of the supporting saiyan cast. Y'all gonna gave to cope harder. I'm taking no questions, I'm taking no complaints. Y'all entitled to vent why you think I'm wrong, and for me to not read it, cuz I'm done.
that dude with the "bad dads" take was just yapping. if he genuinely thinks theyre horrible parents because they dont spend every single second onscreen with their kid, then he shouldnt be watching dragonball because how tf are they supposed to hold their kids hand while fighting gods
13:50 to try and fix his plot hole you literally just have Cooler act like Cooler he doesn’t like Frieza so he just watches Frieza about to die/die and goes “Welp that’s what he gets” then if you want Cooler either pulls a Black Frieza and dips for no real reason other than “I’ll fuck you 2 up later” or he retreats and then comes back later honestly swap him out for Tien for TOP
Every time the Z movies get brought up by you my fire gets stoked, my drive to create- I NEED to defend my points- either making videos explaining my opinions or debating or both I WILL STAND BY MY TRUTH: BIO BROLY IS GOOD
@@IIIISai Broly 1 is ass cheeks, it’s boring to look at its a boring story, there’s no character development, and the whole thing goes on WAY too long. Best parts were the fun hanging out stuff on Earth and the backstory, both these sections had the best art to look at too. Goku and Chi-Chi at the school or whatever and the cherry blossom backdrop of the picnic, and the art direction and mood of the flashbacks was tense and dark. Otherwise the movie sucked. Broly was boring af and the music for his fights made me sick of the Dub score. I liked the style in Lord Slug and maybe Cooler but it became overplayed with Broly.
@@ScapeVEVO Wow, that was certainly something to read, I guess we are polar opposites but fair enough, I also like the chichi section and backstory tho
Fat buu toyed with dabura, who is said to be on par with cell. You even have fat buu beating majin vegeta, who is equal to goku. And goku, in the anime, is stronger than pikkon, who one shot cell. Fat buu annihilates cell, with zero difficulty
Sooo hold up kid gohan at max ssj2 witch is what it took to kill super perfect cell. was stronger then majin vageta witch almost killed boo cell may not walk fat boo but can win the fight
Cooler isn’t as strong as Frieza. Cooler’s whole thing is because he was inferior to Frieza he trained like a madman to surpass him. This ties into lore as well Frieza is an unparalleled prodigy even greater than the likes of Gohan/Broly. People also need to understand in DB characters with higher potential can grow exponentially strong without as much effort in comparison to others. I’ll put it into perspective this way. Gero had made five androids in Z. 16, 17, 18, 19, and Cell. Mind you four of the five he made were stronger than Grade 1/2 Super Saiyan despite not having access to any of the data to assess how strong the Goku, and the other Z Fighters got on Namek. Meaning the last fight he had data on was the fight against Nappa/Vegeta but he made made numerous androids that surpassed Super Saiyans in strength, and one that could completely dwarf mastered Super Saiyan rivaling Super Saiyan 2. (Super Perfect Cell) Later on we see the same feat basically replicated to a higher extent in the Super Hero movie. Dr. Hedo was aware of things like Revival of F but couldn’t possible know about the Granolah Arc, but made Gamma 1/2 who could rival Goku/Vegeta from that arc even surpassing them with imperfect Cell Max.
The Shadow Dragon Arc isn't good until the last 3 Dragons imo. Baby Arc carries GT but has a direct counterpart in the Goku Black Arc. Isn't it said that Dabura is as strong as Perfect Cell? As in Dabura the mf that Fat Buu absolutely claps before Vegeta shows up??? The Frieza movie take is whatever but the fact that mfs were and still are bothered that Sorbet was able to catch a battle weary Goku off guard with a laser through the chest proves that none of them remember Krillin throwing a rock at Goku in SUPER SAIYAN and him getting hurt by it. Defense only works in DB if it's ACTIVE. Besides that he basically wants to nerf Cooler's potential to make Frieza appear bigger??? Hell nah. Gohan being a bad dad is actually hilarious. Imagine being caught up in work and basically asking your brother to pick up your kid in your stead and getting called a bad dad for it.
If we are being honest, there is about an arc and a half of gt that we could actually count as good. Baby omega and ssj4 cannot carry a show. The first 16 episodes are terrible, along with making goku a kid. I could understand goku turning info a adult in ssj4 if he actually stay as a adult. Making him only become a adult in that form makes no sense and to me was a indication that the writters copped out to keep kid goku for more of the goofy bits and then also have a adult version for serious fights. The baby arc was the most consistent of the series. The only flaws is the lack luster figbts but i give it a pass only because this was a series wide problem. Gt has the worst fight choreography of any DragonBall series. The lack of imput from akria beyond designs really hurt gt. Super 17 is not a good arc in concept or execution. I havs no idea how you explain gero and the other guy ( yes i forgot his name lol) made another android 17 in hell when both android 17 and 18 where originally humans. The arc started off weak. They have a portal open between hell and earth. While i can excuse how they did it. Idk how they where able to .control the original 17. Originally the only way gero could control the androids was to shut them down. But its never been shown he has the ability to completely control them. Gero couldn't do that and he was a fucking android. The goku being stuck in hell is dumb and notbing was interesting about him fighting cell and freiza in hell. They show movie villians which is honestly cool. To bad they do nothing with them and most get off screened. It was kinda interesting to see the 18 and 17 stuff but honestly as much as a wish they would have did more with the other characters then just having goku being the only one who can actually do anything. I honestly didnt care for this part . Them we have essentially everyone including Uub being fucking uesless and the was he lost was being shot by essentially bullets. The figbt eith 17 and goku wasn't good. It honestly mskes ssj4 look weak asf. The ending is just ok. The shadow dragon arc.... Great concept. Has really good highs especially the ending. What holds it back is more than half of the shadow dragons being forgettable. The only good shadow dragons where nova ice and syn/omega. Now notuce how i dont mention super ar all when making these points. Super being mid doesn't make GT bettter in comparison. Pointing out the flaws of super are not a defense against the flaws of GT. I watched GT faithfully when it aired on cartoon network. So no im not a hater that jumped on the GT hate bandwagon. I used to look at GT fondly. Before super was announced. I bought the GT box set from Walmart. I was buying all tbe dragin ball dvds at the time. Tbis was i was 22. This when my opinion changed and Gt became damn near unwatcha ld at times. Im not speaking from hate, nor am i just a super fan, boi. I haven't defended super once in this long as comments. Because more than likely i might actually agree with criticism of super. Im not biased even tho i can still watch super and enjoy parts of it. I just enjoy more parts of super than gt
There's various transformations that heavily morph the body of the user, including the Great Ape transformation that's a prerequisite to SSJ4. Goku maintaining his adult form when using SSJ4 isn't that out of the ballpark.
@@espurrseyes42 yes it is. The great ape transformation completely changes the size and outward appearance from a human to a giant ape. This doesn't justify goku becoming a adult in ssj4. Which im not mad about tbh because I hated the idea of kid goku in GT. The mistake was turning him back into a kid after the fight. It makes no sense. I know why they did it this way as I explained in in my op.
Super being so ass has alot of people looking at GT fondly as they should. Half the people hating GT never watched it they been talking all the videos and memes about it as their own opinions
@@richborn6700 nah more likely GT fanbois who overrate GT became of ssj4 baby and 3 out of 7 shadow dragons. Super isn't ass. It's mid, it's better than Gt and yes I watched GT. I watched it when it first aired on toonnami and a bought the series box set and rewatched it. It's not good at all tbh. It has the weakest fights. Bad pacing and overall was wasted potential. GT fanbois are the ones who love to qoute youtubers. When totallynotMark did his review of GT. I swear to God every GT fanboi was repeating points from that video. The ironic part is he didn't rate it above super. Yet everyone keeps using his points of praise to argue GT was better than super.
The intro alone is crazy
Facts
Dabura might beat Super Perfect Cell Fat Buu definitely winning 😭😭😭
@@KINGJTH6306bro fat buu LITERALLY dogged and toyed with majin vegeta who was stated to be STRONGER than gohan was when he went super sayian 2 what is wrong with these folks lmao
Yea like two ppl that were considered equal and even stronger than super cell got no diffed by fat buu instantly so that take just cannot be agreed with if u actually watched the buu arc
Now i can see Cell having some wincons against Fat Buu and even better against Good Buu (After evil Buu was Born) 'cause Dabura was said to be on Cell's level but then later on It was said he was a bit stronger so he's supposedly stronger than Perfect Cell but weaker than Super Perfect 'cause Dabura struggled against a rusty Ssj2 Gohan while Cell with Little effort broke a prime Ssj2 Gohan and to take down Cell It was needed to be distracted by Vegeta and It took a Rage boost for Gohan in order to beat him but he'd need to be Super Perfect to have a chance against Fat Buu or Good Buu (and on a unrelated note Super Perfect Cell annihilates Second Coming Broly)
Ohh in 2024 we still doing Goku bad dad yeah we are finished.
😂😂
our community ret*rded
It's true
@@alatusedits ya...we are cooked
@@IIIISai 🗿
Fat buu who dogged Majin vegeta who was stronger than gohan when he fought cell
*Fat Buu who dogged Dabura, who alone was as strong as Perfect Cell
@@thedarknessinthelight9824 i think Dabura is atleast little stronger by Cell,but problem is that Cell regeneration
@@CelestialCutStudios That would be a problem if Fat Buu didn't have regeneration 10x better.
@@thedarknessinthelight9824 im talking about cell vs dabura,cell vs buu isnt fair at all
That’s just being too generous cmon now……
Fat Buu who fought SUPER SAIYAN FUCKING 3!!! GOKU…. Gets clapped by PERFECT FORM or SUPER PERFECT FORM…. Cell………… yeah ok that makes sense have a good day🙂
Goku spends a lot of time in the anime spending time with Goten in DBS. During when he is farming in the fields and even he went out shopping to get gifts for Chichi. Even complimenting the social cues and manners Goten displayed there that were taught to him by Chichi. Then there is Yo Son a Goku & Friends Return Special!, (which is canon), where he is actively encouraging Goten and letting him Fight Abo & Cado. Goku has been a great father Goten after coming back to life in the Buu Saga. Heck even before was alive again he calmly greeted his second son for the fist time, taught him & Trunks fusion, and demonstrated SSJ3 for them.
Dude really just wanted to point out cell's perfect jawline
That’s fair though
the crazy thing is that during the hit rematch arc goku was literally chilling at home with goten and chichi for weeks at that point and people seem to forget that but honestly I lowkey agree that gohan isn't a great dad because he's more focused on his work than his daughter when they literally live in the same house he has no excuse and he still makes piccolo train her and pick her up from school consistently because in the movie this is literally not the first time this has happened. Also I just realized he literally works online in the movie this man has no excuse he doesn't even need to come into work anymore
Nah Gohan the main character that literally chooses him life with his wife and kid over fighting being a bad father is a new take 😂
It's absolutely bonkers to say Gohan is a bad dad because he forgot to pick up Pan from school one time. At least he had Piccolo go get her. And Pan loves Piccolo
@@MrPonytron is he the one that had piccolo pick up pan? I thought that was videl
17:07 the bad parental move was Piccolo telling him “bro it’s your kid drop your project and pick her up” and him going “well I’ll know you’ll do it” but even then the second she is in danger he crashed the fuck out for her that man did a shitty to his daughter because he put too much focus on his stupid big project but he made up for it INSTANTLY
Understanding what half these guys are saying with that mic quality is a talent
That last guy has some familiar issues he lowkey tried to dump 😭
At this point might as well make a video on “how Jiren isn’t that bad” cause seriously he is so misunderstood as charatcter
Jiren isn't bad he's just boring in terms of character.
@@suru7064^^^^
Super manga Jiren is a more palatable character ngl
He is very misunderstood, ppl prefer Z broly over Super Broly so its understood why ppl thing Jirens a bad character.
misunderstood? like there's depth to misunderstand
I could rock with that Frieza/Cooler idea.
Cooler and Frieza train together, and while Frieza goes gold, Cooler finds that same form from his movie. You can call it the same power-up expressed in a different way.
Frieza prefers the look of his true form, so Gold kept the shape and size. Cooler had less of a desire to keep his look locked to that true form, hence why his expression of this new power is so drastically different.
If you want, you can even make Cooler still stronger than Frieza. That way you can have a 1v1 with Goku and Cooler and a 1v1 with Vegeta and Frieza.
Goku still gets to fight the strongest, while Vegeta gets to have the kill on Frieza.
but this ain’t what he was saying gang. he literally says to establish cooler mask form , and to challenge & be defeated by Goku. also explicitly doesn’t want cooler to surpass frieza again.
the issue is cooler would never knowingly be fodder compared to frieza, especially if he sees his bro GLOWING GOLD 😂 I can see him being weaker but no shot he wouldn’t have any desire to unlock the form or a new one
@@TSO_Sage well that's what I mean. I could rock with the idea of it, I'd just make the changes I mentioned.
This is why TSO_sage is underrated
Isn't dabura like as strong as perfect cell and didn't buu beat him in one kick
Bro thought he was cooking, Cell is no where NEAR being the best villain in Dragonball. Frizea and Goku Black/Zamasu are honestly my picks for best villains.
Yes, Frizea gets smacked around but each time he reappears he ACTUALLY posed a threat. Cell begged Vegeta to get his Perfect Form, if he didn't then Cell would've been space dust
Zamasu is the best DBS villain (manga included), Cell is the best Z villain.
u cooked with frieza and dropped the ball with zamasu HELL NO 💀
@@HimenoWYD nope frieza negs cell, cells literally created by a petty human and steals peoples dna, freizas aspects makes cell cool, freiza himself has so much more to offer
@@IIIISai And why is that? Zamasu is the best written villain in all of Dragon Ball
@@Santzu_ crazy work
Jiren boring. They literally decided to give him a backstory like a few episodes to the end, and it's just a generic "I lost my family" backstory. And then he destroyed any goodwill he had by attacking Goku's friends. You should really read the manga. It handled him and his story much better.
they easily coulda made jiren like this
He's selfish and was bored and numb since he's been stronger than a god for years and the reason he's not eliminating everyone at the start of the tournament is because he finally senses a challenge, don't make him about justice make him someone who fights people and kills innocents for the sake of forcing them to get stronger, that woulda been more interesting than his sasuke backstory with unexplainable power and for no reason he meditates and doesn't eliminate everyone right away IMO
the backstory doesnt matter tho it's just suppose to show his mindset. Him attacking goku's friends also shows that. he's suppose to be a reflection of goku's journey in Z
@@baked7423
His backstory does matter given that it makes him a much less interesting and less likeable character than when he was just an obstacle with a face and occasional voice. Whatever they were going for with him, they missed the mark and turned an otherwise cool character into a bitch that'll resort to some pussy shit when he's not getting his way. Versus the manga where he still maintained some level of respectability thanks in part to his backstory being better fleshed out there.
@@espurrseyes42 it doesnt matter because his character is the same without it. It just helps show how he got to where he is. If it makes him more of a bitch in ur eyes thats subjective. The manga jiren is better personality wise but it sacrifices the narrative for it. The anime does the whole parallel much better while the manga makes jiren more of a warrior but that leads to him not actually having an arc
@@baked7423
It's literally not. Jiren without the backstory is just a strong guy that likes being strong. Jiren WITH his backstory is a guy pursuing power as a result of the tragedies in his life and not caring about his allies because of his belief in absolute power and that he's too strong to need help from others.
He very much does have an arc in the manga. And it's done better since there's an actual focus on it unlike the anime. He's not a team player for the reasons previously stated, so his master had him join the Pride Troopers in hopes that he'd learn the value of working with others. Something he ultimate doesn't learn, casting aside his allies her were unable to save themselves from elimination. And it was that attitude towards teamwork that got him defeated by the combined efforts of Goku, Frieza, and Vegeta (17 was hiding out in the manga and didn't rejoin the battle). Belmond literally spells all this out during the fight when he's giving Jiren's more fleshed out backstory. You either didn't read the material (typical DB fan moment), or you're just an idiot. One way or the other, Jiren does have an arc in the manga, and it's done without compromising his character like the anime did, having him mald over Goku having friends and shooting at them on some Frieza BS because he's salty about losing.
I woulda introduced Cooler in the universe 6 tournament as an alternative to Frost. Cause to me it don’t make sense to try to introduce him this late in the story without him ever being mentioned by Frieza, Cold, King Kai, or Beerus
Cell about one hell of a tasty cookie
The only take from sage that I genuinely disagree with is his takes on the Bojack movie. Bojack himself is ass for sure, but everything else about it was great
When was the last time you watched that movie? If literally fighting is the only think you care about, then i can understand why you and other would like that movie
@@supersaiyangodsupersaiyanm7886 The vast majority of the older Z movies are also just 100% entirely fighting. You new here?
the movie is amazing
@@supersaiyangodsupersaiyanm7886 what, that movie connects the dots of grey area between cell saga and buu saga which the series itself doesn't cover so whatchu on about, it's not just fighting it shows vegetas depression and gokus afterlife
Just by the intro I know how bad this is gonna be.
Edit: after watching the video is was WAAAY better than expected
Yeah it was just that 3rd guy who was tripping. “Cell beats Buu”, “Cell better than Frieza”, “Krillin stronger than Trunks”.
Bojack Unbound is an objectively good Dbz movie
fax and it's not even about gohan , it shows an after math of cell saga, and just solid world building and it coulda fit right into the story tbh
I hate the Dbs super heroes movie more a lot of reasons, one of the biggest is calling Goku a bad dad. Then they depict Gohan as a bad dad, then they make Piccolo look like a great parent. The superhero movie is so disappointing, I get the action is good but the story, no
This is fair.
the movie makes 0 sense tbh,only thing I liked was Mystic gohan and vegeta finally being happy he won, beast and orange look silly, and gamma being God level made 0 sense and cell max is garbage
@@IIIISai
Gamma gets a pass given that Gero made numerous Androids stronger than 100% Frieza and even post-3-year training SSJ Goku and Vegeta at the highest. Without having known about the gang going to Namek or studying them during the Frieza return and training period.
honestly the only good thing in the broly movie was seeing tenshinhan beating trunks in base and forcing him to go super saiyan.
Perfect cell is not touching buu AT ALL😭
Dabura is as strong as Cell and he got dog walked by Buu lmao
unless cell trains then only he will be able to beat buu
17:39 if anything gohan is the most overprotective parent in the db verse
Honestly, I feel like Golden Frieza but not Golden Cooler COULD theoretically work, considering Frieza's relations with both the Saiyans and Cooler. To my understanding, Frieza specifically made his next form a golden reversion of his fourth form to mock the original yellow-haired Super Saiyan (feel free to correct me if I am mistaken). The way I see it, while yes, Frieza and Cooler aren't exactly fond of Saiyans, Frieza would likely have "more beef" with them than Cooler due to his past experiences with Goku and Trunks. Therefore, while Frieza would develop Golden specifically to mock them in addition to the power amp, Cooler might not be as inclined to do the same due to his sibling rivalry with Frieza, pride in his own race, and comparative lack of personal grievances with Goku and the others on Earth. I think that while Cooler may still accompany Frieza in order to restore his family's honor (mirroring his motivations in DBZ: Cooler's Revenge), he may choose to further develop his Fifth Form instead of unlocking Golden because he would rather rely on the might of his own race than mimic the Saiyan's parlor tricks or copy his brother.
Now, as to how the MOVIE or ARC would change with the addition of Cooler, I have NO IDEA, I'm simply referring to what I thought would happen if specifically Frieza was training with Cooler and why they might not both roll up to Earth with Golden. Feel free to break my arguement down wherever and however you think it falls flat, as I'm relatively new to this side of media as a whole and DEFINITELY know a lot less than a lot of long-term Dragon Ball fans. Thank you for making your way through this wall of text, and have a nice day.
That’s cool and all but Golden Cooler and Golden Metal Cooler from SDBH are raw af so opinion discarded (btw they gave GMC the coolest Super Nova he forms 3 at once imagine Blue Vegeta and Goku getting like 3K Supernovas chucked at them on New Namek)
@@rayquaza000 I'll not contest you on SDBH Cooler, I haven't seen much but I do know about his own Golden reversion
"agenda must agend" takes are hilarious bruh. perfect cell probably goes mid-high diff with dabura, never mind what ANY version of buu would do to that mf 😭
I can't say the Shadow Dragon ARC was good but I did like 3/7 of the Shadow Dragons and I don't think I need to explain which ones. Plus I liked the concept of the show started with the Dragonballs so we're gonna end it with the Dragonballs.
Damn cut again, had a good time tho
Broly 2 i definitely felt was a better showing bcuz for the most part he was holding his own by himself against broly who he stated is as strong as ever and in the previous movie we watched broly dog walk 4 saiyans n a fused namekian vs bojack who we really only seen jump the Z fighters with his crew and even in that final fight they were still jumping even with bojacks power up
cell farming zenkais is the only way he could possibly win but he probably wouldn't last long enough
I don't do paragraph comments but, I really thought homie was about to cook with a similar take and he just shit the bed. (So cont. if you like)
(Making Cooler Canon)
11:15
So a way I thought they could add Cooler that ACTUALLY would have made sense would have been to have Gohan fight him. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed Super Hero but I think we all thought him fighting Cell again was lazy as hell. Instead have Cooler come down either looking for Broly after hearing about the events that happened in the Broly movie to try to restore some honor back to their family's name.
Like they did with King Cold the Z-Fighters would notice the Frieza-like ki just stronger or at least relative to T.O.P Frieza. Cooler would prolly still have his own Armored squadron (I'm personally thinking only two though this time to replace the Gammas) and they'd storm through the human fighters to have trouble with Piccolo but eventually beat him and take Pan assuming she belongs to Broly this would force not only Gohan into the fight but Piccolo to still make his strength wish.
To wrap it up (I'd love to go into more detail low-key) everything plays out PLOT WISE damn near the same as Super Hero. Gohan goes down with Piccolo to get Pan they'll fight the henchmen which will have them power up and get the rust off of Gohan. They'll start to fight Cooler, Piccolo will get "Bodied" (Knowing Cooler low-key he just might and if we're REALLY getting crazy he might off Pan 💀)and then Gohan snaps and still transforms into Beast. All should be in order but that's simplifying it.
Idk about allat but I fw the passion and agree there can be a good way to implement cooler as cannon, and it's easy to explain why cooler wasn't present this whole time, if he's on the other side of the universe thriving as emperor and friezas dead, it makes sense why cooler never came around, so they can play on some freiza lore and connecting the dots to super
Hot take: Bulma is the most hoed side character in the series even more then vegeta is(funny cause they are married)
Side note: don’t take this rant personally, it’s just for fun and i genuinely want to know how ya feel about this take out side me being accused of rage bate
Reasons:
1. She consistently gets sidelined from being the secondary protag by backwater characters(all of the Z fighters) even though 1 the show is named dragon ball due to the adventure she started when she made the dragon radar and 2 she’s a founding father of the Z fighters
2. She was brought to namek just to be made fun of when she could’ve played a more prominent role then just sitting in a cave watching the dragon balls
3. (Future timeline) her best friend get macked by a heart disease then some horny old man from Redhub creates robots to Mack all her friends, which forces her to create a Time Machine just to find out that the past doesn’t change the future so she’s cooked regardless
4. She creates a remote that can kill the same androids that macked the z fighters in the future, gives it to the second most trusted adult she knows just for him to get horny and break it which allowed cell to become perfect
5. Got macked by Majin Buu, I just don’t like how dirty Buu did my homies this is a nit pick
6. Got smacked by Beerus just for her homies to not spin the block, they got cooked so bad they started begging bro to train them and to this day VEGETA specifically has not spun for his love(bro has to be a cuck)
7. Is only ever needed for the dragon balls or to contact whis when’s she more value than that
I’m tired of the bulma disrespect, I need a movie dedicated to my glorious queen
We still waiting for that Bojack movie 👀
Bro I missed the best arguments, cell is literally just dabura level and he got f up. Like I'm pretty sure it was stated so, also w stream when I there
ye
I want a debate with you about the rage transformation. I think i might have your solution...and don't worry its not mickey😂
🫠
💀
@TSO_Sage so...remember when vegeta trained trunks and used blue? Also remember trunks in ssj2 is just as strong as ssj3 goku...somewhat 🤣. Trunks has been through a lifetime of struggle with two instances of training...or 3. Him and vegeta in z. Him and the ki. But the key is Him with vegeta being exposed to God ki. He already had an abnormal strong ssj2, so I don't think it's out the realm of possibility for a hybrid, who's been through hell to unlock a unique form. Especially when you seen yo moms get obliterated by this said person. I think beast gohan and broly are giving us a look into prodigy and hybrid
I need to get in one of these cuz there’s definitely a path for main character gohan and I need to get that off
Bojack Movie is the equivalent to when WWE fed Sheamus, Alberto Del Rio, Rusev & Wade Barrett(The League of Nations) be fed to Roman Reigns(back when Roman was hated for being a good guy)😂
Roman: Gohan
Sheamus: Bojack
Am I wrong?😂
I definitely enjoyed the shadow dragon arc way more than most of the super anime to me the super anime should’ve started at the universe 6 arc we didn’t need worse versions of the BOG and ROF movies for bout the first 30 episodes of the anime universe 6 should’ve gotten explored more instead, future saga starts strong but then u get to the 2nd half n just like this ain’t it TOP definitely best arc in super n the only arc o can say is actually better than all of GT for super
WE LITERALLY HAVE A CELL INSERT (Dabura) FIGHT FAT BUU
10:56 I don't want to be that guy, but didn't you make fun of the people saying defending Yamcha with the Saibamen kamikaze which is the damn near the same thing except Cell made it out alive. If someone sneaks you and kills you despite being weaker, they won.
Imo GT isn’t as bad as people make it out to be for me personally once GT gets to the general rildo arc to me gt is good it does have some bad moments especially with most of the shadow dragons but for me baby,super android 17,shadow dragons,baby and general Rildo was all good arc to
Me, plus GT peaks are way higher than Super peaks for me personally GT>Super
12:50 OK. I kinda get what this dude means. Write it so Frieza's potential is higher than Cooler, while Cooler did not necessarily work for his power and just was stronger in base. Since we know Cooler found out a higher level of transformation. He did not train for it. He could have easily been an artificial mutant while Frieza was an actual mutant in terms of power.
Yall wrong, Moro is the best designed antagonist.
Oh nah mans did not say cell could beat fat buu💀
Ive always had the take for a while now at least, why didnt king kai help gohan or trunks or bulma during trunk's timeline, about the andriods? I refuse to believe that king kai, that training the guy who beat freiza, a SPACE HITLAR, and his father who might be as strong as him, saving the universe, doesn't care about earth or cant do anything because the andriods aren't a universal threat. He just like "thanks for helping out with that freiza thing and bringing universal peace from a planet conquering empire... but i cant help you with these robots because i dont feel like or i cant do anything about, because theres some rule in place about me interfering. But thanks anyways" and he just sees all the other z fighters dying and showing up to his planet like "bro, you gonna help us?"
future trunks has tons of plot holes but you'll always have someone try to headcannon-splain it, don't overthink the timeline, i overthought it and now see future gohan differently, he seems like such s dumb character in hindsight toriyama thought of the timeline frozen until the special began
@@IIIISai not even the timeline. As the other z fighters died by the andriods, where do they go? Just straight to heaven or hell or go back to king kais? You mean to tell me piccolo, kami, tien, chaiotzu, Yamcha and krillan all died and didn't give a message to king kai or better yet, the told him and he said "naw"? No shot he dosnt do anything about as the people he trained died when half his roster fought freiza and he trained the guy who beat/killed freiza (in the trunks timeline). He saved the universe from space hitler, that's gotta count for something, a favor, anything
@@Lokoclutch98 you're correct, also piccolo risking his life instead of being in hiding with gohan made 0 sense, so from the jump the premise doesn't make sense, once he fused with kami he would be more careful, and as you've given examples for king kais absence isn't explained, I'd assume the z fighters are on kais planet and vegeta is in hell without a body, so yea timeline is a bit plot holey, also the androids were stated as killers right and destroy when they're bored so how come the world wasn't destroyed after 13 YEARS, they just played patty cake with gohan and trunks for that long, and gohan and trunks happened to be with the androids out of all the places in the world for that long ? gohan not getting enough zenkais by then, and bulma comviently making a time machine After 13 years once gohan dies, very plot holeish
@@IIIISai piccolo was the 2nd to die when the andriods showed up. And another thing, how tf did bulma figure out time travel?
Not gonna lie, Baby and shadow dragon arc is better than everything in super besides TOP and the manga arcs. I would say Black arc too but the execution of that arc is god awful and I think they could have done so many things better.
Oh my god people dont watch the fucking show holy geez that intro hurt
The only arcs in super I think are better than GT Baby & Shadow Dragon are Battle of Gods (Movie Version) and tournament of power.
shadow dragon..
Goku Black arc, Moro arc, Broly movie, Granolah arc and Superhero all clear and it's not even close
@@Santzu_ ehhhhhhhhhh
I wonder he'll have a discord stream of dbz or db takes in general and people talk about those takes like here
People talk about "Oh this proves Goku is a bad dad." "That proves Goku is a bad dad." and people find ways to argue it.
_Shows picture of Goku throwing Cell a Senzu bean._
Goku is a bad father, your argument is invalid.
What?
@@Бобёр-ю8гNo matter the opinions or debates, Goku is a bad dad because he gave cell a senzu
(Is what I think they’re saying)
@@gdmewmewgod6653 "Here you go, biomechanical android with Saiyan cells _who gets a Zenkai boost_ , take this healing bean before you fight my only son who I just sent out to fight you after fighting you first myself."
Great parenting, eh?
Man literally died for his kid. Then came back just in time to save his kid. Then wanted his kid to get out of the fight with Vegeta until things started going good for the team. Then pep-talked his kid TWICE to help him do the things he needed to do in order to beat Vegeta. I think he gave him another pep talk too when he got body swapped and his kid had to beat up Ginyu in his body. And as for that Senzu Bean moment, he did that because he had faith in his kid's potential and wanted him to realize it. And then immediately wanted to jump Cell when he realized his mistake about his kid. Also he died AGAIN to save his kid after he made a fatal mistake, and then gave him another pep-talk to help him win a Beam Struggle against the revived Cell.
Also, you don't know how Zenkais work. It has to be a NEAR DEATH experience to proc. Cell simply being low on power and energy with some injuries isn't going to make him stronger. And apparently getting everything from the waste up blown apart didn't give him a Zenkai, so everything Goku did to him after that point wouldn't have. Typical DB fan being ignorant about the show he claims to like.
i would question about cell being more powerful than fat buu- at least super perfect cell anyway. Only because it took literally all the Z fighters. all of SS2 teen gohan’s strength, and the help of Vegeta to just distract Cell’s attention and throw him off his game for Cell to be wiped out… im not down playing fat buu, but i do feel like we didn’t get to see the full strength of Cell in his super perfect form. I feel there is some debate on it is all, i don’t trust myself for it to be fact.
No is not, first it was just Vegeta in the mamga that attaked Cell, second Dabura eas stablized to be as strong as perfect Cell and he was one shot by fat Buu
bro, Dabura was stated cell tier, fat buu molested him
Decent try, and I really want to agree, but buu is no matter what, always gonna rapə cell (u could even add the juniors & it wouldn't change anything)
How do we get involved in these discords i got some
Pretty good takes
That guy with his cooler take was terrible. Man didn't even preheat the oven before trying to cook that take.
Why did you stop the old content you use to do with your nba analyses
The funniest part of im my fathers son is that its the most out of character thing gohan has said in all of the movie
Yeah tbh it feels like people saw it after the Cell saga and might've seen it as Gohan coming into his role as protector of Earth. Too bad it's not canon and didn't really matter
Genuinely curious how? I thought the line was worded super weird but I essentially view it as “put some respect on my fathers name” which is pretty in character for Gohan.
@@ghostlegend9723 mostly cause goku and gohan just went through a whole im different from my father ark and then immediately goes and talks about him being like his father
huh?
@@JustBagon it clearly went over your head, he's taking pride in being the son of goku, has nothing to do with being the same overall lmao, also what arc did they have about being different, goku just understood gohans merciful side, but gohan still has a demon
Second Coming Broly is more interesting than Bojack. I don’t like either.
Also Ngl I think I’m someone who just loves dragon ball. Cause I dunno depending on circumstances I have a different top 3 characters. I’m in some weird phase of my life where I like fat Buu Merged Zamasu and Baby are some of my favorite characters. It just comes down to mindset. So just know these characters I love when I speak my take.
second broly coming ruined everything good about movie 1 and killed all his rep
your right that based off how your feelings, your fav character changes
That Cooler take isn’t awful. Cooler isn’t written to be a prodigy that rivals or even surpasses Freeza, that was never the case. The only reason Cooler had his evolved form is because he actually trained, unlike King Cold and Freeza who just naturally had unimaginable power. Cooler was arrogant and thought he was better because he didn’t think he was spoiled like Freeza and actually had to “pull up his bootstraps and work” like everyone else, him not achieving golden as easily as Freeza honestly makes sense.
Buddy with the freeza agenda needs to read the manga
I'm not gonna lie perfect cell would mop everyone in supers verse if having goku vegetta gohan piccolo cells he should have there transformations or power
Sometimes this shit is painful to watch. Ima join, I gotta be there to make sure my ears are bleeding correctly
Love ur vids
If you wanna use goku training with whis for 6 months for being a bad dad wouldn't you also have to say Vegeta in super is a bad to present day trunks to
Mr.TSO the discord link expired and i would like to join
If you’re a PAN enjoyer… there’s this place called prison for most of them..
How I join the server?
Also you don’t need to be a powerscaler to prove fat buu is stronger than cell 💀. Vegeta straight up said SSJ 2 Goku was stronger than Gohan when he beat cell. That same Goku had to pull out SSJ 3 to fight fat buu. Not to mention Vegeta who fought equally (with SSJ2) Goku had to blow himself up to not even kill fat buu lol
I hate some of Us I hate some of Us a lot
Time to air my grievances with y'all.
DBS Fans are annoying.
DBGT Fans are delusional.
DBS Fans stay yapping about Goku outside of his own verse, putting him scenarios where he most likely loses. They in denial because most people don't like the idea of Goku losing, which also applies to GT Fans. They also on average, don't know what the hell they be talking about, when debating with other fans. Inconsistent scaling and ridiculous powercreep all the damn time, to the point where people can say with their whole chest that SSJ2 Caulifa could beat a Goku Black Arc SSB Goku and be right. That just sounds wrong. Super could've def used another 2 years to cook, because the art quality shows they cut mad corners. They also should've never made that dumbass explanation of Goku absorbing his Initial SSG into his base, because that's were most of our scaling problems come from.
DBGT Fans like to conveniently forget the first half of GT, like it didn't happen. The literally only thing GT Fans have are good villans in concept, and Super Saiyan 4. MF's wanna also forget the first 4 Shadow Dragons, they only wanna take about the last 3. Gee, I wonder why? Don't wanna talk about the constantly reusing frames right? On average, I bet most of y'all can't even remember the planet Baby comes from. Spoiler alert, it's not Plantet Plant or Tuffle. At least Super Fans can manage that. Also no, GT Goku cannot run the hands with his Super Counterpart, nor any of the supporting saiyan cast. Y'all gonna gave to cope harder.
I'm taking no questions, I'm taking no complaints. Y'all entitled to vent why you think I'm wrong, and for me to not read it, cuz I'm done.
fat buu destoryed debura who was litlarlay as strong as cell bruh 😭
that dude with the "bad dads" take was just yapping. if he genuinely thinks theyre horrible parents because they dont spend every single second onscreen with their kid, then he shouldnt be watching dragonball because how tf are they supposed to hold their kids hand while fighting gods
It’s crazy how people genuinely consider Piccolo to be Gohan’s real dad when he only looked after him for 6 months 😂
Guy: Krillin is stronger than Trunks
Yeah and Kaioken X4 Goku is stronger than Beerus😂
LMAOO
13:50 to try and fix his plot hole you literally just have Cooler act like Cooler he doesn’t like Frieza so he just watches Frieza about to die/die and goes “Welp that’s what he gets” then if you want Cooler either pulls a Black Frieza and dips for no real reason other than “I’ll fuck you 2 up later” or he retreats and then comes back later honestly swap him out for Tien for TOP
Every time the Z movies get brought up by you my fire gets stoked, my drive to create- I NEED to defend my points- either making videos explaining my opinions or debating or both
I WILL STAND BY MY TRUTH: BIO BROLY IS GOOD
u should argue movie 1 broly is good which gets hate, bio is doodoo
@@IIIISai Broly 1 is ass cheeks, it’s boring to look at its a boring story, there’s no character development, and the whole thing goes on WAY too long. Best parts were the fun hanging out stuff on Earth and the backstory, both these sections had the best art to look at too. Goku and Chi-Chi at the school or whatever and the cherry blossom backdrop of the picnic, and the art direction and mood of the flashbacks was tense and dark. Otherwise the movie sucked. Broly was boring af and the music for his fights made me sick of the Dub score. I liked the style in Lord Slug and maybe Cooler but it became overplayed with Broly.
@@ScapeVEVO Wow, that was certainly something to read, I guess we are polar opposites but fair enough, I also like the chichi section and backstory tho
I’m a Gohan fan but the Bojack movie was terrible…
Fat buu toyed with dabura, who is said to be on par with cell. You even have fat buu beating majin vegeta, who is equal to goku. And goku, in the anime, is stronger than pikkon, who one shot cell. Fat buu annihilates cell, with zero difficulty
Sooo hold up kid gohan at max ssj2 witch is what it took to kill super perfect cell. was stronger then majin vageta witch almost killed boo cell may not walk fat boo but can win the fight
The dude yapping about gt really said “erm actually ☝🏽🤓”
Cooler isn’t as strong as Frieza. Cooler’s whole thing is because he was inferior to Frieza he trained like a madman to surpass him. This ties into lore as well Frieza is an unparalleled prodigy even greater than the likes of Gohan/Broly. People also need to understand in DB characters with higher potential can grow exponentially strong without as much effort in comparison to others. I’ll put it into perspective this way. Gero had made five androids in Z. 16, 17, 18, 19, and Cell. Mind you four of the five he made were stronger than Grade 1/2 Super Saiyan despite not having access to any of the data to assess how strong the Goku, and the other Z Fighters got on Namek. Meaning the last fight he had data on was the fight against Nappa/Vegeta but he made made numerous androids that surpassed Super Saiyans in strength, and one that could completely dwarf mastered Super Saiyan rivaling Super Saiyan 2. (Super Perfect Cell) Later on we see the same feat basically replicated to a higher extent in the Super Hero movie. Dr. Hedo was aware of things like Revival of F but couldn’t possible know about the Granolah Arc, but made Gamma 1/2 who could rival Goku/Vegeta from that arc even surpassing them with imperfect Cell Max.
cooler forced out super saiyan from a base goku, that bodied frieza in that movies timeline, goku beat freiza in base and cooler as ssj
@@IIIISai Doesn’t matter. My argument isn’t who’s stronger it’s who’s more of a prodigy, and who has higher potential.
The Shadow Dragon Arc isn't good until the last 3 Dragons imo. Baby Arc carries GT but has a direct counterpart in the Goku Black Arc.
Isn't it said that Dabura is as strong as Perfect Cell? As in Dabura the mf that Fat Buu absolutely claps before Vegeta shows up???
The Frieza movie take is whatever but the fact that mfs were and still are bothered that Sorbet was able to catch a battle weary Goku off guard with a laser through the chest proves that none of them remember Krillin throwing a rock at Goku in SUPER SAIYAN and him getting hurt by it. Defense only works in DB if it's ACTIVE. Besides that he basically wants to nerf Cooler's potential to make Frieza appear bigger??? Hell nah.
Gohan being a bad dad is actually hilarious. Imagine being caught up in work and basically asking your brother to pick up your kid in your stead and getting called a bad dad for it.
If we are being honest, there is about an arc and a half of gt that we could actually count as good. Baby omega and ssj4 cannot carry a show. The first 16 episodes are terrible, along with making goku a kid. I could understand goku turning info a adult in ssj4 if he actually stay as a adult. Making him only become a adult in that form makes no sense and to me was a indication that the writters copped out to keep kid goku for more of the goofy bits and then also have a adult version for serious fights.
The baby arc was the most consistent of the series. The only flaws is the lack luster figbts but i give it a pass only because this was a series wide problem.
Gt has the worst fight choreography of any DragonBall series. The lack of imput from akria beyond designs really hurt gt.
Super 17 is not a good arc in concept or execution. I havs no idea how you explain gero and the other guy ( yes i forgot his name lol) made another android 17 in hell when both android 17 and 18 where originally humans. The arc started off weak. They have a portal open between hell and earth. While i can excuse how they did it. Idk how they where able to .control the original 17. Originally the only way gero could control the androids was to shut them down. But its never been shown he has the ability to completely control them. Gero couldn't do that and he was a fucking android.
The goku being stuck in hell is dumb and notbing was interesting about him fighting cell and freiza in hell. They show movie villians which is honestly cool. To bad they do nothing with them and most get off screened. It was kinda interesting to see the 18 and 17 stuff but honestly as much as a wish they would have did more with the other characters then just having goku being the only one who can actually do anything. I honestly didnt care for this part . Them we have essentially everyone including Uub being fucking uesless and the was he lost was being shot by essentially bullets. The figbt eith 17 and goku wasn't good. It honestly mskes ssj4 look weak asf.
The ending is just ok.
The shadow dragon arc....
Great concept. Has really good highs especially the ending. What holds it back is more than half of the shadow dragons being forgettable. The only good shadow dragons where nova ice and syn/omega.
Now notuce how i dont mention super ar all when making these points. Super being mid doesn't make GT bettter in comparison. Pointing out the flaws of super are not a defense against the flaws of GT.
I watched GT faithfully when it aired on cartoon network. So no im not a hater that jumped on the GT hate bandwagon. I used to look at GT fondly. Before super was announced. I bought the GT box set from Walmart. I was buying all tbe dragin ball dvds at the time. Tbis was i was 22. This when my opinion changed and Gt became damn near unwatcha ld at times.
Im not speaking from hate, nor am i just a super fan, boi. I haven't defended super once in this long as comments. Because more than likely i might actually agree with criticism of super. Im not biased even tho i can still watch super and enjoy parts of it. I just enjoy more parts of super than gt
There's various transformations that heavily morph the body of the user, including the Great Ape transformation that's a prerequisite to SSJ4. Goku maintaining his adult form when using SSJ4 isn't that out of the ballpark.
@@espurrseyes42 yes it is. The great ape transformation completely changes the size and outward appearance from a human to a giant ape. This doesn't justify goku becoming a adult in ssj4. Which im not mad about tbh because I hated the idea of kid goku in GT. The mistake was turning him back into a kid after the fight. It makes no sense. I know why they did it this way as I explained in in my op.
The only reason GT still gets love is because of the fan stuff like absalon 😂
Super being so ass has alot of people looking at GT fondly as they should. Half the people hating GT never watched it they been talking all the videos and memes about it as their own opinions
@@richborn6700 nah more likely GT fanbois who overrate GT became of ssj4 baby and 3 out of 7 shadow dragons. Super isn't ass. It's mid, it's better than Gt and yes I watched GT. I watched it when it first aired on toonnami and a bought the series box set and rewatched it.
It's not good at all tbh. It has the weakest fights. Bad pacing and overall was wasted potential.
GT fanbois are the ones who love to qoute youtubers. When totallynotMark did his review of GT. I swear to God every GT fanboi was repeating points from that video.
The ironic part is he didn't rate it above super. Yet everyone keeps using his points of praise to argue GT was better than super.
Idk how people say kid buu is weaker than buuhan. It’s literally noted on cannon that kid buu is “stronger than ever”