I always hated the "lore accurate" argument because it's not a tenable point. If they really wanted lore accurate, then why doesn't UI goku kill half the cast with one punch? Why does hurcule do any damage at all to most characters? Why, because being lore accurate isn't always fun or reasonable and doesn't make sense in an online video game
People using the lore accurate argument are the same ones who are happy that Z broly is a 9DP better than all the super characters and Z characters past ssj2
The lore accurate argument was always lame. I get what they mean by that, but its not true to begin with. They just look at Hercule and say “okay, this is lore accurate” and that’s about it. With that balancing, Super base Goku should oneshot every character from Z and OG dragonball. But whatever. This balancing worked in previous BT games because they were designed for offline play. Sparking zero would work that way as well, but its pretty hard when the game barely has any offline content and they obviously focused on online competitive play way more than they should’ve, but not enough to make it fun.
@@SolidSnake240 way too many actually. On release, the biggest content creators’, like Doto, rhyme, Seereax, etc, Twitter was full of it, while they were still nonstop glazing the game
Well yeah, they made sparking zero look boring as fuck as opposed to the actual online experience where it's broken as fuck and you die to Broly and Super Vegito caving your skull in, not android 19 and 20 running away for the whole match. What's even worse is they both chose to play like that.
Edit because i’m too lazy to reply to everyone: Its literally in the video that he asked the tournament admin if its allowed or not, he didn’t get a reply from him, but someone else said that there is nothing in the rules about that. Writing way too vague rules and ghosting the players when they want to clear it up is not on the players either. Was their playstyle mad lame? Yes it was. Did they chose cheese characters? Yes they did. Was it boring as hell to watch? Yes it was. Was any of these forbidden by rules? No, it wasn’t. This is not a competitive game, with no set rules, written or unwritten. It was pretty much the same with BT3, that’s why it was on the tournament organizers were always the ones to make the rules. It’s why ssj4 Gogeta was banned most of the time for example. Personally, if i would make a tournament, i wouldn’t allow players to play the stalling game and make it obnoxious to watch. But they didn’t do it, therefore the DQ was uncalled for.
@@BlaxkSun what they did is not inactivity. It’s stalling. 2 pretty different things. But even if it was inactivity, it could’ve been solved if the mods responded to the guy’s messages instead of ghosting him and letting him trying to figure out what they mean by their vague as hell rules.
@ did you watch they Bayonetta fight a few years back. Stalling and/or Stalling is still illegal and there is a precedent set in the past. Only difference is it happened live and the staff was around to tell them
They colluded man. They didn’t do this until they got to the finals. They got the finals without playing that way. They both were going to play as obnoxious as possible. It’s textbook collusion.
Banning players from using a playstyle your game allows instead of actually going “ hmm this is a problem, let’s look into it” is peak Bandai. People have been talking about legit broken tactics for the entirety of November, and if this is what Tourney gameplay looks like, imagine how much worse it is en masse online. Naturally the company got greedier and wanted to push for DLC and Tourneys to generate more revenue. A multi billion dollar company that struggles to both address issues and do something about them is crazy.
The organizers are separate from the developers. Yes, they need to fix it and rules needed to be more clear for cheap players who lack enough common sense to fight in an actual fighting tournament. Using the creator's metaphor. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you can around and threat everyone with it to do what you want. Either player had the option of fighting, too. The organizers handled this in an awful manner, but they did the right thing
@@phasi2182 The rules were not clear, they didn’t answer the players when they asked them about it, changed the message about the rules afterwards. The players played the game, with a playstyle that’s the most likely to give them a W. You can’t even do mental gymnastics about this, you just have to be ignorant to say that the admins did nothing wrong.
@@UtlawBroine it's not mental gymnastics it's common sense. the whole point of the tournament is to play the game so why would you assume that NOT PLAYING is acceptable behavior
They should have not disqualified anyone. Bamco and the announcers should have sat there and taken notes on what these players have found to later patch it out. Just like Sakurai Did for Smash bros on its tournaments.
so if i quit a game because someone is ki spamming me with broly , by their definition, that person should actually lose points and not have their win count....... because of the way that they played the game.....
@@Darkri56789yea it kinda should be this way with all competitive gaming imo. Exploits and cheese shouldn’t allow for credibility and accolades over ppl legit grinding and getting better
Funny how it was not an issue in the 4th and 5th BT game, but the 6th one somehow it is. Maybe its because many base mechanics are missing. If someone was stun locking you but had only 1or 2 frames to escape like in the issue with KI spaming in SZ, you would use SUPER RISING in The 4th and 5th game to escape it. Super Rising is completely missing in Sparking Zero the so called 6th game that has less mechanics then the 2nd game.
The game not being balanced for competitive play is fine. What isn't is putting that game into a competitive tournament and then acting surprised when players use cheese tactics. That's like making a Xenoverse 2 tournament and then banning anyone from using custom characters. Then what the fuck is the point?
This has been my thought. I get that they made the game unbalanced in purpose to make it more lore accurate etc. But if you do that why have stuff like a ranked mode and tournaments (ie competitions). They're trying to have it both ways.
I'm sorry but some things you obviously shouldn't do. I'll use the same anology from the video "Don't give me a gun then be surprised when I start firing it," and to that I have to say don't be suprised when you get locked up after firing the gun. I get that the game has problems and I have my own fair share of greivances with it, but this is not how you bring awareness to the problems because this only makes you look bad and taint the message behind your actions. It's a common issue that many activist and activist groups have to day where they go out and make fools of themselves so no one takes them or their message seriously. Saying that the players bare no responsibility in this situation is stupid because this is something that'd get you DQ'd in any other fighting game and it's no different here. Yes the game needs fixing but that doesn't mean that you go out and make an ass of yourself during an official tournament just to make a point, and if you do decide to do that, then you better be prepared for the consequences and don't go crying when they come.
I think banning tech is fine, but it needs to be done in advance. Reminds me of the list of things you cant do in melee because its pure cheese. They have a list of those things in advance.
I always said that Sparking Zero doesn't need a competetive scene, because it's so difficult to balance. They should have let OP characters remain OP, and let casuals have fun. Let players who want a tournament scene work out the balancing rules. Ranked play is a nightmare to solve.
I wouldnt say it would be impossible as BT2 and BT3 tmk both had relatively balanced rosters and mechanics. But would still be a big thing here due to how many mechanics need some major adjustment
Imo, if they want the game to last, their top priority should be adding a ton of offline content into the game. Like, i can have fun online, but what can i do when i get bored or annoyed? Run tournament mode for the 100th time? I just quit the game, even though i do want to play, just not online. Like another guy said in this comment section, just let go of the competitive scene, this game is not built for that. Give us missions, survival mode, add way more cosmetics for ingame currency, etc. Custom battles sounded nice but it didn’t live up to the hype at all.
@@arpadszabo661there’s alot of features just missing in the game in general. In story mode, certain characters have custom movesets but these dont exist in game? Lots of characters have missing outfits or customization items. The old games let you customize auras. Alternate colors are gone, alternate modes are gone, you can’t save preset and filters, you have to redo them every time, custom battles has no filters. Online, filters barely work, if I set my match completion to the highest, I still get matched up with the same guy who plugged on me 3 times in the same day. Input delay is atrocious and there’s no indicator for an opponent’s connection status in ranked, like there is for tekken, the list goes on and on. Tournament mode itself is lack luster because you only get 8 participants. Online is in an awful state, and offline content is absolutely abysmal. The game looks pretty and thats it, if any other series released like this, the devs would have been slandered beyond belief.
What is casual? Almost every body want to win. How do you win if again Op carakter? Oh use op carakter to. Then it will be boring because fight the same carakter offer again. The dev can make half the roster op so player can have many options.
Idk but i feel like it's one of those things that doesn't need to be said. Don't play like that.... but yea, not outlining the rules is 100% on them. People like to be intentionally obtuse, that's why the world has rules. You gotta be airtight
Dash spamming isn't even the strongest cheese in the game, it got the players banned specifically because it was the most embarassing one for bandai namco to see, they're expecting tournament players to read the company's mind and figure out what strategies are and arent fine to use
"Do you see the problem here, Bandai Namco? You haven't picked a lane and now you're in open traffic getting hit by both sides." I love that metaphor so much
Man i love dragonball so much but a spade is a spade we are not in 1990, devs can change the game and we got the power to speak up. Bandai can get drug through the mud for all i care but sparking zero needs to change
In the form when reporting a player after a ranked match there’s something to the affect of “Player did not engage in match”. If it’s grounds for reporting a player, they should have known better
God damn right I was right about this game not being competitive. I hate it when I say stuff like that and it immediately gets dismissed as some sort of malice or elitism, a dogpile ensues where everyone is attacking a strawman of what they THOUGHT I said.. and then a mere few weeks later it turns out I was right and everyone arrived at that exact same position walking into the room like they were always here. How about no. How about we stop getting sucked up into these hyper defensive honeymoon phases where no one is allowed to say anything negative lest our sensitive hype bubble burst prematurely. Not every criticism is someone trying to tear the game down in the most petty, elitist way possible. It makes a LOT of people look like massive clowns after the heat dies down.
What i hate the most is when content creators do it. At least Mike takes accountability for it. But the biggest Sparking zero content creators are acting like they didn’t get multiple opportunities early to play the game, and they glazed it to no end to stay on the good side of the company for future opportunities like that, but now they act like people who always gave proper feedback about the game. I remember getting laughed at for saying the same things i do now on Seereax’s or rhymestyle’s channel, everyone calling me a hater (even though i still like the game), and now they are suddenly making videos about why the game is not fun in ranked and “how could they release the game like this”. Like, bruh, people who got early access invitations and didn’t speak up should lose their right to complain now imo
Yeah. One of the reasons I like Mike is actually because he can OWN it when he gets something wrong and has the same mentality as me; disagreements are disagreements. We can beef about it a bit but it's never personal, always attack the argument before the person. I can jive with someone like that in real life, me and MY friends love to just have discourse about things and make stupid jokes. The problem is nowadays everyone presumes things about what people "intend". Everyone does this sometimes but it's gotten out of hand. I also feel like people have generally just forgotten how to admit how to just acknowledge when they're wrong without making a bigger deal out of it than there has to be. Mike does it right; admits defeat, moves forward, we're all on the same page now. Most people just push the goalpost indefinitely.
I am loving this meltdown. They thought we were hating when anyone pointed out that this game will never be tournament ready and that it's unbalanced..
I'm sorry. Anybody thinking an 'anime sim' like the Tenkaichi series should be balanced closer to competitive rather than lore, when FighterZ is right there, we're kidding themselves. And I could have sworn everybody was excited for the lore based, arcadey wackiness of the Tenkaichi gameplay so all this drama is strange. Namco doing a tourney series for this is strange. That's like 2K doing a tourney for WWE2k and not expecting Roman mirror matches, counter spam, running attack spam, etc. It's simply not that kind of game, that's not what was being sold. I knew this tourney was a train wreck coming. Not everything needs to be competitive, tourney viable balance wise.
@ it’s not a party game and it’s not being forced into anything (Bandai dgaf) Is smash just a party game? It’s still balanced because other characters need to be worth using. Even budokai 3 from 2004 is a more competitive game and it’s full of cheese
People try to make every game a e-sport despite the fact that the creators said it isn't. Same thing as Smash Bros Sakurai has stated many times that Smash isn't meant to be a competitive game.
"This is only happening because they dumbed down the game." I'm sorry man but I'm not buying it LOL. People from the very beginning were saying that Sparking Zero wouldn't be a serious competitive game for reasons exactly like this. You could do this in BT3 too. But an entire battalion of people who played BT3 for fun back in the day were like "Nah dude it'll be different bro you'll see BT3 is different," then when exactly what they were predicting comes to pass that same battalion is like "No dude it's only cuz they dumbed the game down bro it's not the same." Sorry but picking infinite energy androids and running all match has nothing to do with the game being dumbed down, this was called way pre-release. Sometimes you just gotta hold the L and admit you were wrong from the very beginning.
To be quite honest the community attempted to tell them this game was not qualified for competitive tournament standards. Now, we have this situation which makes the game and the community look far worse. There are a plethora of issues that occurred during this event. It is an embarrassment on Bandai and the organizers behalf.
Unsolicited advise: If you're creating content to be monetized, you get more bang for your buck if viewers watch through the entire video. Your outro doesn't need to be 90 seconds long.
To the goobers saying "there is a counterplay to that." Sure. Too bad you will never get it. If you get super lucky, sure. But then it becomes a lucky draw, not a counterplay. I can guarantee you will never counter that shit more than 4 times a day. Sure there may be some kind of counter, but the odds of you pulling it off are astronomically low. "You aren't that guy."
The game clearly needs fixes to improve its mechanics. Yes, the organizers needed to be more clear and the players needed to read. In the end they deserved getting disqualified for the awful display. Just because you can exploit something doesn't mean you are obligated to, you can choose to fight properly in the fighting tournament. You think you can go into a fighting tournament without fighting and just run away?
that's what i'm saying! you need to be explicitly TOLD not to throw shit at your opponents mid match or can you just use your goddamn head and think EDIT: nobody threw anything from what I know it's just an extreme example using shiryu's logic
I think a XV2 Tournament would have looked better. No players fault, event holder and game devs let it happen and did nothing about it despite THOUSANDS saying that something was wrong
Punishing players for doing everything in their power (short of exploiting bugs and cheats) to win is wrong. If efficient play ends up being boring to watch, then it's 100% the designers' fault.
@@waskarvega5301 100% agree. The game needs fixes. But, just because something is allowed in the game does not necessarily mean you are obligated to exploited. You, as a player, can also choose to play and fight.
It's clear by the replies that you all don't play fighting games. In every fighting game there is a way to "play lame" and it is 100% a viable strategy to use especially if it's effective and money is on the line. Just because you don't like it didn't mean players should be punished for it.
@@blackmail2459 THANK GOD PEOPLE WERE WATCHING. So they might go to Bandai and ask them to fix this fucking game. The Nostalgia glasses have come off, Sparking Zero is a joke competitively and if they wanna run a competitive scene they better fix it. Otherwise leave it as an unbalanced party game, stop organizing official tournies for a game that cant clearly do that. Its like Mojang and Microsoft organizing official Minecraft PvP tournaments... that shit wont happen cause Minecraft isnt a competitive game
Its honestly about time they came under fire tbh. This company runs a monopoly on anime arena fighters, and are NOTORIOUS for cutting corners with their games, and every time someone criticizes a legitimate flaw, you get an army of angry fans trying to hush that person cause they see criticism of a multi billion dollar company as an attack on their childhood. Thats why things never actually get fixed with these games.
@@JohnGlow2 they just cant seem to make any "Good" games especically with their netcode how is it that capcom figured their shit out yet bandai cannot lowkey wish asbr wasnt owned by them cause it could be super competive with updates/ connection
Chunsoft and Bandai needs to rethink their approach to this game and realize that BT fans didn’t want an unbalanced online and competitive mess. We wanted an unbalanced offline fun experience, like why everyone played the old games. If they want a competitive game, make a new Budokai game at best, not a Budokai tenkaichi. What this game needs is way less focus on online and a ton more offline content. Give me missions, survivor mode, that rpg mode from BT3, whatever, but it has to be offline. You know who would care about balance then? Literally no one, because the cpu is not cheesing you nonstop.
@@fluidwolf well, it certainly got a huge focus compared to singleplayer content, because that’s pretty much nonexistent outside of tournament mode and the very underwhelming custom battles.
Is it really that hard to balance Competitive PvP sepparately from Offline and casual PvP? Many games have different servers with different stats, functionality, etc. Just have 2 modes you can pick, Legacy (current unbalanced mess) and Balanced. That way, the sweatiest of players and tournaments can have their fair matches and it doesn't affect the Offline experience.
@@Mr.MasterOfTheMonsters For this game yes because they'd effectively need to make 2 different games. Its not like smash where you can turn off items, or a tcg where you can ban certain sets. The CORE gameplay of this game is what makes it extremely not competitive. Its why a lot of people skipped this game or are simply waiting for mods to enjoy cpu vs cpu battles. The fault of this lies on the TO's and arguably content creators who pushed this game to have an official tournaments without really knowing what that means.
The most dissapointing shit about all this is..THEY COULD HAVE JUST WAITED AFTER THE DECEMBER AND LET THE GAME BREATH BEFORE MAKING A TOURNAMENT CIRCUIT.. Game isnt even 3 month old and mind you we had no beta test to discover all the broken shit to disocver so they patch them before day 1. Imagine a scenario where Tekken 8 didnt have a beta and released in the state the beta was. Holy smokes would it be a mess. I genuienly like this game even though its very subpar and dumb down compared to Bt3 but the potential is there if they listen and fix what needs fixing and rework the game. This tournament was a massive mistake and should never have happened this early. The damage has been done. I dont see this game getting any extra sales going forward
The game it self is more of the problem right now not the players or the tournament if it’s unbalanced there shouldn’t be ranked or atleast not ONLY ranked Being ranked for a matchmaking it’s stupid and ruins the game for people you can have sweats in casual of course but it’s less likely the games ranked is a toxic mess that is what dragged people away from it should of never stared with a ranked yet at all
@@eproductions5115 it is a real fighting game. Just an insanely broken one. Arena "Fighter" is a sub genre of fighting game. Clearly not designed for competitive play but a fighting game nonetheless.
@RealMikeHollow i get youre using the t3chnical definition but i believe the balance is needed to be considered an actual respectable fighter. This was the conversation people were trying to have earlier and i believe like now, most of yall were using the technical definition, but still, even the fact that shit like this (the tournament situation) happens helps my case, no? Is this just misinterpretation?
@eproductions5115 yeah, when I speak about fighting games I acknowledge there are many sub genres in it just like there are in Shooting games. You've got games like Cod and games like Gears. Games like Medal of Honour and games like Uncharted online. Starfox on the GameCube even. They're all shooting games but belong in their own genres.
multiple times God rank player in DBL- the most famous dragon ball mobile game. the pvp scene is and always was very toxic and expensive, not playing ranked pvp is so refreshing and cool, i feel much better now. just bought sparking zero and will stick only to the campaign mode not even gonna bother with online matches
Globku actually ran a tournament for Sparking Zero and it seems it went off without a hitch. So the game can have a tournament scene if the people running the tournament know how to communicate the rules and expectations of what's allowed. Still not balanced to be a very viable tournament game since it was mostly UI Goku and some Fusion Variants but still.
The people that think this game would be a nightmare to balance because of all the characters is laughable. The game has like 8 different skills and 15 blasts. They're all just variations of the same core moves. What's broken 1) is that there are 3 Skills that make a character meta (Full Power, AIS, Full Ki), 19/20 are the only real exception with false courage. 2) That the mechanics themselves lead to cheese an broken gameplay. You don't need to go into character sheets and adjust stats or make sweeping changes to how each character functions. Fix the damn mechanics, and 3 skills.
They’re trying to use them as an example. It’s embarrassing to rail someone, but no one else will want to risk follow in their footsteps(remind you of that previous discussion?) The only way they’re going to hold them accountable enough to fix the game is if a lot more people do it in the further part of the tournament, because it needs to be more efficiently in the game itself. It’s not hard to make dashes going away slower than dashes going towards an opponent.
This game will never be competitive and they should stop trying to make it so. Competitive Brawl was less of a joke. Games are allowed to just be for fun too you know.
Okay to be fair this is absolutely shambolic I did not think this is the turn that this was going to take bad bandai namco where's the water bottle we need to spray it like a bad cat.
I don’t agree that just because a game pits players against each other that it should always cater to a competitive audience cuz it inherently has the space for competition…. That’s like saying Mario party is competitive then. Or katamari , Some games are just made to play for shits in giggles and yea they can have a competitive aspect to them and that is being aware that the game isn’t “ competitively balanced” so if you pick a character that is canonically weaker then just like in an actual anime that character is just gonna have to will themselves a victory based on their skill and knowledge of the game and not just because they picked the guy with the strongest move or most health. Both things can be true tbh
You can say the Playstyle shouldn't be punished because the game allows that's disingenuous... any game no matter how well made nowadays can get trivialized by cheese created by the players. Even games of the year titles like elden ring that are inherently meant for offline have the problem of players cheesing bots instead of engaging in honest play. Its literally just the player base of gaming today. This also existed back in the day too but the difference is people were playing for fun with friends on the couch so you wouldn't do bs . But Now that everything is online and most people cant handle losing everyone just plays like a weirdo to protect their ego . The game development team clearly didn't intend for players to play like weirdos and suck the fun out of it or they wouldn't have banned those two. Sure the game has some fault for allowing it but realistically the person or people thar play like that are at fault because they are making a conscious choice to go into a game search for cheese tactics and then apply it online repeatedly despite knowing it's cheese.
I heavily agree, it the developers fault for making their game the way it is. The TOs / Bandi has staged it to say it is the player's fault for why the game is the way it is? Everyone has the tools to run away with the androids so why ban the player? Bandi needs to correct their game and return those banner players to the finals invite to L.A.
Did GBG use items in all his matches or just one specific match? I seen some of his matches but i dont recall any capsules being used , not saying they weren't present but i didnt catch them
So many comments here are still blaming the players despite everything you showed in this video. It's extremely clear that the Sparking Zero community has no idea how ppl play competitive fighters and expect their opponents to fight with "honor" or some BS.
@@sevenapollo6882 See, before I got the evidence that they had specifically asked about this and were not given a clear 'No, do not do that.' (heck, one can reasonably argue they were told 'this is fine'.) I would agree with you. But you can't punish someone for doing what they specifically asked for permission to do, when you gave that permission.
@@Sorain1 If you ask your mom to stick your hand in boiling water and she doesn't answer so you do it, do you blame her when you get burned? I get that the game has problems and I have my own fair share of greivances with it, but this is not how you bring awareness to the problems this only makes you look bad. Saying that the players bare no responsibility in this situation is stupid because this is something that'd get you DQ'd in any other fighting game and it's no different here. Yes the game needs fixing but that doesn't mean that you go out and make an ass of yourself during an official tournament just to make a point, and if you do decide to then you better be prepared for the consequences and don't go crying when they come.
I can think of times where tournament play resulted in a rule change or adhoc ban on one tactic that the game allows for, but i dont think i've ever seen a set that also resulted in a simultaneous DQ. BN could have just made their rule change and enforced it next meetup. Removing the two winners for finding a winning strategy just flies in the face of being competitive. It's whatever though...the fgc kept laughing at the idea of the game being tournament viable, BN decided to still do a series for it despite their stated design goals, and ultimately the gameplay engine and their designated TOs are just proving the community right.
It's ok to be wrong, i was too unfortunately, but i still believe this game can be viable competitively with a lot of adjustments. but its sad that storm doesn't get this attention from the developers when the game is more viable
People trying to argue the rules arent goofy because the players were being cheesy are goofballs. Unless something is completely overpowering "cheese" is generally fair game in tourney play
@@ChrisM-wv4gs Who, me? Most tournaments I have entered never banned anything that wasn't outright impossible to fight against. Like Gambit jumping off screen in MVC2 or 1.0 Kokonoe who had ToD's on nearly the entire cast. Oddly enough in MVC2 some insanely cheesy strats are perfectly fair game. Like the Doom/Strider team is a big example where properly played puts the other player in defense forever and chipping them out. The grand majority of casual players would likely consider Cable in his entirety cheesy. A large part of playing Storm had players jumping super high into the air and spamming heavy for meter gain, Sentinel got abused in big part due to chipping on everything, etc. Examples in Marvel 3 being when Morrigan got to do her copy super and turn the game into a bullet hell or every team having Phoenix as a third because xfactor level 3 Dark Phoenix was basically god mode.
Make an example of them. It's what I would've done. You can lie and say it's optimal to play the way they were it isn't. You can cry and say it's more important for the players to be able to protest than it is for them to play the game but it isn't. Say what you want when you load up into a tournament with the intention of not playing the game and making a spectacle of yourself you deserve to be banned. To think that these guys thought there would be 0 consequence for this is crazy. You can't just sign up to fight and then not fight then blame the event cause they can't make you fight. Me personally would've shut down the tournament and banned them both on the spot. 100%
@LowResCatExplosion Sadly at torunaments, you do what you have to in order to win. You would do the same thing if you were in that spot, knowing the other person is going to as well. There is no honor in tournaments.
Self fulfilling prophecy. May be true but this is one of those truths that is better not to accept, because it's not like it COULDN'T happen, just that it consistently doesn't because devs for some reason don't want their games to be good long term.
@@Dhiontae True. and I'm gonna sound like a broken record, but good thing Gundam Extreme Vs limits the boost resource, cuz if not, this fiasco happens
Also we accept your apology for those of us who KNEW this wasn’t gonna pop off. too many many hands in this pot n every one is attached to a mindless individual tryna just make a buck or gain something of a boost of clout. It’s all weird energy in this group of gamers.
you could just use your common sense that the running away the whole match isn't fun to watch so obviously you shouldn't do it the mods have to respond to every question or else it's the wild west? furthermore, how is it the tournament hoster's fault that the players are butthurt about the games balance? nobody is forcing you to participate
Its the admin’s fault for making the rules as vague as possible, ghosting the players (while obviously being there because they were talking a minute before, and lets not act like there was more than one question) and changing the message about the already vague rules AFTER the match to justify the DQ. “Shouldn’t” isn’t enough to justify a DQ anyway. Idk why does it feels so good to suck up Bamco, you won’t get anything out of it.
“But why did they market it to a competitive scene??” Because Mike that’s just how the business is when you don’t have the audience appeal. Sucks to suck but this is a valid point going back to something i said along the lines of this is why smash works as a competitor and less of a casual. The team behind melee had 6 months to figure it out n have is one of THE BEST fighters to touch the stars. And now everyone is reaching to have that level of success but with have to work load and a fraction of the team to get into action. It’s the money game these companies are involved in not “let’s make a actually good game and set a solid market for it to grow from its grassroots” They should tho. But they won’t until we get rid of who is in charge now
Expect smash appeals to both the rules allow competition and casual chaos with a massive roster sure not every character is balences but the sheer amount of viable options makes up for it balence the characters around their DP cost but remove boring cheese fix certain mechanics and if people want a stupid fun mess THERE ARE ITEMS
The crazy part is they removed more casual elements from Tenkachi 3 tbh. In offline play, there's one map. Map destruction is only on planet namek. The game's story is lacking and customization in general is abysmal.
I currently play the game. But just costume battle. The online network is really bad. The characters don't respond on time when you press for a counter or vanishing.
This only confirms that the December patch will be the make or break the game the online scene as a whole most people don't agree with what Bandai did and it's like they are backtracking as one one hand they never said this game was gonna be Competitive but now they are bring up Code Of Conduct and changing rules at the very last minute after Shinryu and Hillia player it's like the devs can't make up their mind on what they want this game to be. They should had made a open beta before the game released so that way all of us would be able to test it but we didn't get that so now we are stuck in the situation we are in now.
You wanna solve this up-down-up-down and flying away problem, follow Gundam Extreme Vs' boost resource. It limits how much you can freely fly around for a few seconds and recharges once you land, but at that point, it wouldn't be Tenkaichi anymore now would it? But people want this game to be "competitive" right?
This isn't a tournament game but they ran a tournament anyway and this is what happenes. This game was only ever meant to be played for 30mins at a time with a friend or online (Ranked never should have been included either. Just player matches). They made the game perfect and got the wrong idea about what it could be. I dont play ranked, and I wouldn't play this in a tournament, so I enjoy the game freely. Anyone who thinks the game is competitive in any way is having a field day with all this nonsense. The game isn't competition worthy. It isn't a competitive game. The people playing it are competitive, but that doesn't mean the game is in a state where winning means you're better (which is the essence of competition).
This is like banning people for playing Steve in Ultimate when he came out lol. Steve is objectively broken on many levels. The objective, optimal way to play Steve is turtling, stalling, and running away so you can get resources and force people into horrid situations by sitting behind a wall. Steve and sonic being the most optimal picks in tournaments for Ultimate absolutely sucks the fun out of every match they are in. But instead of consulting the community and limiting Steve’s tech or banning Steve, or balancing Steve so he can’t do that anymore they just banned everyone who played Steve lol. Steve makes the game look bad, not because of the players, but because the optimal game choice is to pick Steve and stall the entire game out with boring tech. So many tournament organizers banned Steve after much thought. A completely optimal playstyle being so absolutely boring it ruins your tournament is 100% on the devs and organizers lol. It’s not like they were exploiting a glitch, or chose to do a boring strategy on purpose even though it wasn’t helping them win or being optimal. That was unironically the 100% optimal playstyle for the game. The only reason these two got banned and not other people that were doing actual exploits is because it absolutely flash banged Bandai’s product and made them look bad. Not because it was boring, but because the game they’re pushing into the competitive scene when played at a tournament level is so absolutely unengaging nobody wants to watch it, commentate on it, or play it.
I think sparking zero players should look at games that have balance issues like mvc2 or mvc3. Game has some serious bs and cheese but people still play them competitively because they have accepted the game for what it is. Sparking players have it good since their game is new and still getting support so if any overwhelming tech has been discovered will hopefully be nerfed or removed and if not then at least banned
Was it a booring and lame show for a tournament? Yes. Was it allowed by the tournament? Yes. Anything that isn't strictly forbiden is strictly allowed. This was an L from the organizers for not setting limits and now its an even bigger L for disqualifying players for using a META strategy (for those who dont know Most Effective Tactic Available=META).This wasn't an exhibition match, it was a win or go home match. So even though the match was boring and had no sportmanship it wasn't illegal.
that's fucking stupid. "the tournament rules don't say anything about me dropping pants and shitting on the floor after i lose" EDIT: there's META, and then there's cheating
Reckon they should have a "tournament" mode that has rebalancing to make everyone viable in tournament play? Or would that be pointless coz the pros (and I imagine many others) would be like "why would we use this mode"... oh yeah and then ranked... hmm... okay I now think this is a bad idea but does anyone want to weigh in on my thinking?
We been trying to tell yall this this not a competitive game fighting game it’s just a great ass game to have fun with the bro with it’s a great good game just not in a competitive way
Okay Xenoverse fan, calm down. Just because its not a competitive game that should be in tournaments (like literally everyone with a single working braincell said since day 1), doesn’t mean it needs “saving”
@@stefanjuarez6565 U just assumed the dudes' hobbies and his opinions on SZ just from one comment? U need a lot of help getting this emotional over a game catered for teens.
@@stefanjuarez6565 if it’s not intended to be in anyway competitive then it wouldn’t have a ranked mode and leaderboards…(ranked being the main mode that’s keeping the game alive), the game does indeed need saving from it’s current state if it wants to keep players interested. This tournament just highlighted one of many broken mechanics that can be abused to guarantee wins.
@@stefanjuarez6565 Even if I were a Xenoverse fan, what does that have to do with my comment? I was merely quoting other people who said the December patch will "save" the game. Also did you not WATCH the video? Mike even stated that if the game was intended to be an unbalanced broken mess, why would they HOST tournaments for COMPETITIVE play. Bamco literally CONTRADICTED themselves on that front.
We should not say "this game isnt competitive" we should say "there is design oversights that need fixing for skill expression." there is really good players without abusing cheese, there is a skill ceiling it just cant be shown off as much with the major design oversights and lack of fixes and feedback taken when feedback is necessary for any game to improve, casuals need to stop hating players for wanting to get good at a game they like. Smash brothers was competitive and that wasnt even made with competitive in mind. In conclusion to sum it up, if there is skill expression like top players in budokai tenchaichi 3 where that game was more nuanced then most casual players think in the small little competitive side to the game. Casuals and competitive players are both important to allow all players to enjoy a game. I like both sides of sparking zero other than flawed mechanics that we all agree need fixing
6:37 This. It seems to me like they want to make this competitively viable, which is fine, but if they are, TREAT IT LIKE A COMPETITIVE FIGHTING GAME. You cant drop the game as a mess then treat like its the next generation of fighting games. They look stupid lol.
I love it I said before players who sign up to a tournament to disrespect the viewers deserves this hell banned them for 2 to 3 years yes they need to fix the game but they dont need to allow your level of disrespect they should not be allow in any other tournament of any game you just don't do things like that now I'm not saying that the game can't and shouldn't be fix i said it earlier in my message now yes they need to mention and banned this moves much like any other game does when a player is broken or has a TOD and if they did it is the players that needs to read it which they probably didn't and if they did then move that banned to 5 years
Damn, i misread it as “Yakuza in Tekken” and got unreasonably happy… lmao. I’m not giving up hope of Kiryu being in Tekken one day as long as the franchise exists
I always hated the "lore accurate" argument because it's not a tenable point. If they really wanted lore accurate, then why doesn't UI goku kill half the cast with one punch? Why does hurcule do any damage at all to most characters? Why, because being lore accurate isn't always fun or reasonable and doesn't make sense in an online video game
People using the lore accurate argument are the same ones who are happy that Z broly is a 9DP better than all the super characters and Z characters past ssj2
The lore accurate argument was always lame. I get what they mean by that, but its not true to begin with. They just look at Hercule and say “okay, this is lore accurate” and that’s about it. With that balancing, Super base Goku should oneshot every character from Z and OG dragonball. But whatever. This balancing worked in previous BT games because they were designed for offline play. Sparking zero would work that way as well, but its pretty hard when the game barely has any offline content and they obviously focused on online competitive play way more than they should’ve, but not enough to make it fun.
People actually try to use that as an argument? 😂
@@SolidSnake240 way too many actually. On release, the biggest content creators’, like Doto, rhyme, Seereax, etc, Twitter was full of it, while they were still nonstop glazing the game
Finally someone with a brain
Sounds like "Y'all made our game look bad so we're disqualifying you both"
Well yeah, they made sparking zero look boring as fuck as opposed to the actual online experience where it's broken as fuck and you die to Broly and Super Vegito caving your skull in, not android 19 and 20 running away for the whole match.
What's even worse is they both chose to play like that.
@@jaymal82 to be fair to bandai it is easier to disqualifie the players than to fix the game
@@codysorenson4298easier and WAYYY cheaper for them.
Edit because i’m too lazy to reply to everyone: Its literally in the video that he asked the tournament admin if its allowed or not, he didn’t get a reply from him, but someone else said that there is nothing in the rules about that. Writing way too vague rules and ghosting the players when they want to clear it up is not on the players either.
Was their playstyle mad lame? Yes it was. Did they chose cheese characters? Yes they did. Was it boring as hell to watch? Yes it was. Was any of these forbidden by rules? No, it wasn’t. This is not a competitive game, with no set rules, written or unwritten. It was pretty much the same with BT3, that’s why it was on the tournament organizers were always the ones to make the rules. It’s why ssj4 Gogeta was banned most of the time for example. Personally, if i would make a tournament, i wouldn’t allow players to play the stalling game and make it obnoxious to watch. But they didn’t do it, therefore the DQ was uncalled for.
Inactivity is against the rules in any fighting game tournament
@@BlaxkSun what they did is not inactivity. It’s stalling. 2 pretty different things. But even if it was inactivity, it could’ve been solved if the mods responded to the guy’s messages instead of ghosting him and letting him trying to figure out what they mean by their vague as hell rules.
@ did you watch they Bayonetta fight a few years back. Stalling and/or Stalling is still illegal and there is a precedent set in the past. Only difference is it happened live and the staff was around to tell them
MUSTARDDDDDDD
They colluded man. They didn’t do this until they got to the finals. They got the finals without playing that way. They both were going to play as obnoxious as possible. It’s textbook collusion.
Banning players from using a playstyle your game allows instead of actually going “ hmm this is a problem, let’s look into it” is peak Bandai. People have been talking about legit broken tactics for the entirety of November, and if this is what Tourney gameplay looks like, imagine how much worse it is en masse online. Naturally the company got greedier and wanted to push for DLC and Tourneys to generate more revenue. A multi billion dollar company that struggles to both address issues and do something about them is crazy.
The organizers are separate from the developers. Yes, they need to fix it and rules needed to be more clear for cheap players who lack enough common sense to fight in an actual fighting tournament.
Using the creator's metaphor. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean you can around and threat everyone with it to do what you want. Either player had the option of fighting, too.
The organizers handled this in an awful manner, but they did the right thing
i would go even further and say the organizers did nothing wrong. players didn't wanna play the game so they got banned
@@phasi2182 The rules were not clear, they didn’t answer the players when they asked them about it, changed the message about the rules afterwards. The players played the game, with a playstyle that’s the most likely to give them a W. You can’t even do mental gymnastics about this, you just have to be ignorant to say that the admins did nothing wrong.
@@UtlawBroine they did send a message to one of them and asked him to play seriously.
@@UtlawBroine it's not mental gymnastics it's common sense. the whole point of the tournament is to play the game so why would you assume that NOT PLAYING is acceptable behavior
They should have not disqualified anyone. Bamco and the announcers should have sat there and taken notes on what these players have found to later patch it out. Just like Sakurai Did for Smash bros on its tournaments.
Sakurai is the goat
so if i quit a game because someone is ki spamming me with broly , by their definition, that person should actually lose points and not have their win count....... because of the way that they played the game.....
That would be hilarious. If you cheese you auto lose the game.
Yea that does seem logical
Imo
@@Darkri56789yea it kinda should be this way with all competitive gaming imo. Exploits and cheese shouldn’t allow for credibility and accolades over ppl legit grinding and getting better
Funny how it was not an issue in the 4th and 5th BT game, but the 6th one somehow it is. Maybe its because many base mechanics are missing. If someone was stun locking you but had only 1or 2 frames to escape like in the issue with KI spaming in SZ, you would use SUPER RISING in The 4th and 5th game to escape it. Super Rising is completely missing in Sparking Zero the so called 6th game that has less mechanics then the 2nd game.
@ lol and yet somehow reviewers gave this game near perfect scores smh
“Don’t give me a gun then be surprised when I start firing it.”
As an American, I’m uncomfortable with this lol
lol
also as an American who hears gun shots every night that checks out XD
Well the added context is you’re handed a gun and put into a life or death situation
The game not being balanced for competitive play is fine. What isn't is putting that game into a competitive tournament and then acting surprised when players use cheese tactics. That's like making a Xenoverse 2 tournament and then banning anyone from using custom characters. Then what the fuck is the point?
This has been my thought. I get that they made the game unbalanced in purpose to make it more lore accurate etc. But if you do that why have stuff like a ranked mode and tournaments (ie competitions). They're trying to have it both ways.
Whoever came up with “lore accurate gameplay” needs to be held at point no cap
I'm sorry but some things you obviously shouldn't do. I'll use the same anology from the video "Don't give me a gun then be surprised when I start firing it," and to that I have to say don't be suprised when you get locked up after firing the gun. I get that the game has problems and I have my own fair share of greivances with it, but this is not how you bring awareness to the problems because this only makes you look bad and taint the message behind your actions. It's a common issue that many activist and activist groups have to day where they go out and make fools of themselves so no one takes them or their message seriously.
Saying that the players bare no responsibility in this situation is stupid because this is something that'd get you DQ'd in any other fighting game and it's no different here. Yes the game needs fixing but that doesn't mean that you go out and make an ass of yourself during an official tournament just to make a point, and if you do decide to do that, then you better be prepared for the consequences and don't go crying when they come.
And meanwhile other players broke the rules by using capsules and they were not disqualified…
100% because it was less noticeable and didn't make their game look as bad.
At this point its clear Bandai contacted them afterwards to not allow those players to continue playing because its bad for the game’s reputation
At least they played the game
never underestimate a scrub’s ability to camp in a fighting game
How about just getting rid of the time limit if they don't like this?
I think banning tech is fine, but it needs to be done in advance. Reminds me of the list of things you cant do in melee because its pure cheese. They have a list of those things in advance.
100% agree
The fact that they even asked about it first and they said it should be fine is crazy to me
I always said that Sparking Zero doesn't need a competetive scene, because it's so difficult to balance. They should have let OP characters remain OP, and let casuals have fun. Let players who want a tournament scene work out the balancing rules. Ranked play is a nightmare to solve.
I wouldnt say it would be impossible as BT2 and BT3 tmk both had relatively balanced rosters and mechanics. But would still be a big thing here due to how many mechanics need some major adjustment
Imo, if they want the game to last, their top priority should be adding a ton of offline content into the game. Like, i can have fun online, but what can i do when i get bored or annoyed? Run tournament mode for the 100th time? I just quit the game, even though i do want to play, just not online. Like another guy said in this comment section, just let go of the competitive scene, this game is not built for that. Give us missions, survival mode, add way more cosmetics for ingame currency, etc. Custom battles sounded nice but it didn’t live up to the hype at all.
@@arpadszabo661there’s alot of features just missing in the game in general. In story mode, certain characters have custom movesets but these dont exist in game? Lots of characters have missing outfits or customization items. The old games let you customize auras. Alternate colors are gone, alternate modes are gone, you can’t save preset and filters, you have to redo them every time, custom battles has no filters. Online, filters barely work, if I set my match completion to the highest, I still get matched up with the same guy who plugged on me 3 times in the same day. Input delay is atrocious and there’s no indicator for an opponent’s connection status in ranked, like there is for tekken, the list goes on and on. Tournament mode itself is lack luster because you only get 8 participants. Online is in an awful state, and offline content is absolutely abysmal. The game looks pretty and thats it, if any other series released like this, the devs would have been slandered beyond belief.
What is casual? Almost every body want to win. How do you win if again Op carakter? Oh use op carakter to. Then it will be boring because fight the same carakter offer again.
The dev can make half the roster op so player can have many options.
@@fluidwolfBT2 and BT3 are just as unbalanced for competitive play as Sparking Zero. Quit the cope and move on..
Idk but i feel like it's one of those things that doesn't need to be said. Don't play like that.... but yea, not outlining the rules is 100% on them. People like to be intentionally obtuse, that's why the world has rules. You gotta be airtight
Dash spamming isn't even the strongest cheese in the game, it got the players banned specifically because it was the most embarassing one for bandai namco to see, they're expecting tournament players to read the company's mind and figure out what strategies are and arent fine to use
Management with no clarity is so stupid that it hurts, even worse that they’ll get away with it at this rate.
Lmao, they violated the rules that were just made up during grandfinals in empty heads of the organizers
Rules made after the fact actually. They were told “nothing in the rules against running away” during the grand finals
"Do you see the problem here, Bandai Namco? You haven't picked a lane and now you're in open traffic getting hit by both sides."
I love that metaphor so much
Man i love dragonball so much but a spade is a spade we are not in 1990, devs can change the game and we got the power to speak up. Bandai can get drug through the mud for all i care but sparking zero needs to change
Wouldn’t be surprised to see this game get review bombed tbh
In the form when reporting a player after a ranked match there’s something to the affect of “Player did not engage in match”.
If it’s grounds for reporting a player, they should have known better
Lore accurate just means “no fun” only to ppl looking to be sweaty and overly competitive in a game that’s essentially a party game
They are making it even worse 🤦♂️
How tf can you enforce a code of conduct that was made up after the final match? First n second place got robbed.
God damn right I was right about this game not being competitive.
I hate it when I say stuff like that and it immediately gets dismissed as some sort of malice or elitism, a dogpile ensues where everyone is attacking a strawman of what they THOUGHT I said.. and then a mere few weeks later it turns out I was right and everyone arrived at that exact same position walking into the room like they were always here.
How about no. How about we stop getting sucked up into these hyper defensive honeymoon phases where no one is allowed to say anything negative lest our sensitive hype bubble burst prematurely. Not every criticism is someone trying to tear the game down in the most petty, elitist way possible. It makes a LOT of people look like massive clowns after the heat dies down.
😂 You said it, brother
What i hate the most is when content creators do it. At least Mike takes accountability for it. But the biggest Sparking zero content creators are acting like they didn’t get multiple opportunities early to play the game, and they glazed it to no end to stay on the good side of the company for future opportunities like that, but now they act like people who always gave proper feedback about the game. I remember getting laughed at for saying the same things i do now on Seereax’s or rhymestyle’s channel, everyone calling me a hater (even though i still like the game), and now they are suddenly making videos about why the game is not fun in ranked and “how could they release the game like this”. Like, bruh, people who got early access invitations and didn’t speak up should lose their right to complain now imo
From day one I said this game will never be a balanced game for competition. I don't feel bad for this tournament.
Yeah. One of the reasons I like Mike is actually because he can OWN it when he gets something wrong and has the same mentality as me; disagreements are disagreements. We can beef about it a bit but it's never personal, always attack the argument before the person. I can jive with someone like that in real life, me and MY friends love to just have discourse about things and make stupid jokes.
The problem is nowadays everyone presumes things about what people "intend". Everyone does this sometimes but it's gotten out of hand. I also feel like people have generally just forgotten how to admit how to just acknowledge when they're wrong without making a bigger deal out of it than there has to be. Mike does it right; admits defeat, moves forward, we're all on the same page now. Most people just push the goalpost indefinitely.
I am loving this meltdown. They thought we were hating when anyone pointed out that this game will never be tournament ready and that it's unbalanced..
I'm sorry.
Anybody thinking an 'anime sim' like the Tenkaichi series should be balanced closer to competitive rather than lore, when FighterZ is right there, we're kidding themselves.
And I could have sworn everybody was excited for the lore based, arcadey wackiness of the Tenkaichi gameplay so all this drama is strange. Namco doing a tourney series for this is strange. That's like 2K doing a tourney for WWE2k and not expecting Roman mirror matches, counter spam, running attack spam, etc. It's simply not that kind of game, that's not what was being sold. I knew this tourney was a train wreck coming.
Not everything needs to be competitive, tourney viable balance wise.
Didn't expect a competitive fighter but I thought in 2024 they could do better than the PS2 games
@CornellD.Cavendish Better in what sense because I seen that people wanted that PS2 experience.
Judging by the comments, this still hasn't sunk in for some people. They still think Sparking Zero can be the next FighterZ. That's never happening..
Fucking thank you. Go play FighterZ if you want a competitive game. Don't force a party game to be a competitive game
@ it’s not a party game and it’s not being forced into anything (Bandai dgaf) Is smash just a party game? It’s still balanced because other characters need to be worth using.
Even budokai 3 from 2004 is a more competitive game and it’s full of cheese
An unbalanced fighting game shouldn’t even have a professional tournament…..
People try to make every game a e-sport despite the fact that the creators said it isn't. Same thing as Smash Bros Sakurai has stated many times that Smash isn't meant to be a competitive game.
"This is only happening because they dumbed down the game."
I'm sorry man but I'm not buying it LOL. People from the very beginning were saying that Sparking Zero wouldn't be a serious competitive game for reasons exactly like this. You could do this in BT3 too. But an entire battalion of people who played BT3 for fun back in the day were like "Nah dude it'll be different bro you'll see BT3 is different," then when exactly what they were predicting comes to pass that same battalion is like "No dude it's only cuz they dumbed the game down bro it's not the same."
Sorry but picking infinite energy androids and running all match has nothing to do with the game being dumbed down, this was called way pre-release. Sometimes you just gotta hold the L and admit you were wrong from the very beginning.
This is equivalent to banning players for continuous Kuni backdashing on infinite cuz it was most op strat in T7 season 4
To be quite honest the community attempted to tell them this game was not qualified for competitive tournament standards. Now, we have this situation which makes the game and the community look far worse.
There are a plethora of issues that occurred during this event. It is an embarrassment on Bandai and the organizers behalf.
Imagine buying a game and getting banned for playing it without even using mods or any kind of cheats.
Unsolicited advise: If you're creating content to be monetized, you get more bang for your buck if viewers watch through the entire video. Your outro doesn't need to be 90 seconds long.
To the goobers saying "there is a counterplay to that."
Sure. Too bad you will never get it. If you get super lucky, sure. But then it becomes a lucky draw, not a counterplay. I can guarantee you will never counter that shit more than 4 times a day. Sure there may be some kind of counter, but the odds of you pulling it off are astronomically low. "You aren't that guy."
Any future players should use the same strategy and start running away and run the timer down.
F the devs and the tournament organizers
All of this makes perfect sense when you embrace the fact that this isn’t a fighting game.
The game clearly needs fixes to improve its mechanics. Yes, the organizers needed to be more clear and the players needed to read.
In the end they deserved getting disqualified for the awful display. Just because you can exploit something doesn't mean you are obligated to, you can choose to fight properly in the fighting tournament. You think you can go into a fighting tournament without fighting and just run away?
that's what i'm saying! you need to be explicitly TOLD not to throw shit at your opponents mid match or can you just use your goddamn head and think
EDIT: nobody threw anything from what I know it's just an extreme example using shiryu's logic
I think a XV2 Tournament would have looked better. No players fault, event holder and game devs let it happen and did nothing about it despite THOUSANDS saying that something was wrong
Punishing players for doing everything in their power (short of exploiting bugs and cheats) to win is wrong. If efficient play ends up being boring to watch, then it's 100% the designers' fault.
That's dumb. They should be punished for abusing the mechanics AND the company should fix those issues. Both can happen.
@@waskarvega5301 100% agree. The game needs fixes. But, just because something is allowed in the game does not necessarily mean you are obligated to exploited. You, as a player, can also choose to play and fight.
it’s a tournament EVENT. its always that u cant expect to win by being lame, ppl are watching.
It's clear by the replies that you all don't play fighting games. In every fighting game there is a way to "play lame" and it is 100% a viable strategy to use especially if it's effective and money is on the line. Just because you don't like it didn't mean players should be punished for it.
@@blackmail2459 THANK GOD PEOPLE WERE WATCHING. So they might go to Bandai and ask them to fix this fucking game.
The Nostalgia glasses have come off, Sparking Zero is a joke competitively and if they wanna run a competitive scene they better fix it. Otherwise leave it as an unbalanced party game, stop organizing official tournies for a game that cant clearly do that.
Its like Mojang and Microsoft organizing official Minecraft PvP tournaments... that shit wont happen cause Minecraft isnt a competitive game
What a bunch of clowns. If you’re playing for money do everything but use third party cheats. Period.
Oof Bandai
Time is ticking
Its honestly about time they came under fire tbh. This company runs a monopoly on anime arena fighters, and are NOTORIOUS for cutting corners with their games, and every time someone criticizes a legitimate flaw, you get an army of angry fans trying to hush that person cause they see criticism of a multi billion dollar company as an attack on their childhood. Thats why things never actually get fixed with these games.
@@JohnGlow2 they just cant seem to make any "Good" games especically with their netcode how is it that capcom figured their shit out yet bandai cannot lowkey wish asbr wasnt owned by them cause it could be super competive with updates/ connection
Chunsoft and Bandai needs to rethink their approach to this game and realize that BT fans didn’t want an unbalanced online and competitive mess. We wanted an unbalanced offline fun experience, like why everyone played the old games. If they want a competitive game, make a new Budokai game at best, not a Budokai tenkaichi. What this game needs is way less focus on online and a ton more offline content. Give me missions, survivor mode, that rpg mode from BT3, whatever, but it has to be offline. You know who would care about balance then? Literally no one, because the cpu is not cheesing you nonstop.
They did release a survey about what they should do to improve the game. They are listening to us!! Which is good. Be sure to say that in the survey
I dont get why people act like online got a huge focus to begin with. The online mode is pretty much as barebones as can be.
@@fluidwolf well, it certainly got a huge focus compared to singleplayer content, because that’s pretty much nonexistent outside of tournament mode and the very underwhelming custom battles.
Is it really that hard to balance Competitive PvP sepparately from Offline and casual PvP?
Many games have different servers with different stats, functionality, etc. Just have 2 modes you can pick, Legacy (current unbalanced mess) and Balanced.
That way, the sweatiest of players and tournaments can have their fair matches and it doesn't affect the Offline experience.
@@Mr.MasterOfTheMonsters For this game yes because they'd effectively need to make 2 different games. Its not like smash where you can turn off items, or a tcg where you can ban certain sets.
The CORE gameplay of this game is what makes it extremely not competitive. Its why a lot of people skipped this game or are simply waiting for mods to enjoy cpu vs cpu battles.
The fault of this lies on the TO's and arguably content creators who pushed this game to have an official tournaments without really knowing what that means.
The most dissapointing shit about all this is..THEY COULD HAVE JUST WAITED AFTER THE DECEMBER AND LET THE GAME BREATH BEFORE MAKING A TOURNAMENT CIRCUIT.. Game isnt even 3 month old and mind you we had no beta test to discover all the broken shit to disocver so they patch them before day 1. Imagine a scenario where Tekken 8 didnt have a beta and released in the state the beta was. Holy smokes would it be a mess. I genuienly like this game even though its very subpar and dumb down compared to Bt3 but the potential is there if they listen and fix what needs fixing and rework the game. This tournament was a massive mistake and should never have happened this early. The damage has been done. I dont see this game getting any extra sales going forward
The game it self is more of the problem right now not the players or the tournament if it’s unbalanced there shouldn’t be ranked or atleast not ONLY ranked Being ranked for a matchmaking it’s stupid and ruins the game for people you can have sweats in casual of course but it’s less likely the games ranked is a toxic mess that is what dragged people away from it should of never stared with a ranked yet at all
Remember when yall claimed this was a real fighting game? 😂
@@eproductions5115 it is a real fighting game. Just an insanely broken one. Arena "Fighter" is a sub genre of fighting game. Clearly not designed for competitive play but a fighting game nonetheless.
@RealMikeHollow i get youre using the t3chnical definition but i believe the balance is needed to be considered an actual respectable fighter. This was the conversation people were trying to have earlier and i believe like now, most of yall were using the technical definition, but still, even the fact that shit like this (the tournament situation) happens helps my case, no? Is this just misinterpretation?
@eproductions5115 yeah, when I speak about fighting games I acknowledge there are many sub genres in it just like there are in Shooting games. You've got games like Cod and games like Gears. Games like Medal of Honour and games like Uncharted online. Starfox on the GameCube even. They're all shooting games but belong in their own genres.
@@RealMikeHollow i agree
multiple times God rank player in DBL- the most famous dragon ball mobile game.
the pvp scene is and always was very toxic and expensive, not playing ranked pvp is so refreshing and cool, i feel much better now.
just bought sparking zero and will stick only to the campaign mode
not even gonna bother with online matches
Dragonball tournament organizers when a fight lasts as long as a Dragonball fight: 😮
Globku actually ran a tournament for Sparking Zero and it seems it went off without a hitch. So the game can have a tournament scene if the people running the tournament know how to communicate the rules and expectations of what's allowed. Still not balanced to be a very viable tournament game since it was mostly UI Goku and some Fusion Variants but still.
The people that think this game would be a nightmare to balance because of all the characters is laughable. The game has like 8 different skills and 15 blasts. They're all just variations of the same core moves. What's broken 1) is that there are 3 Skills that make a character meta (Full Power, AIS, Full Ki), 19/20 are the only real exception with false courage. 2) That the mechanics themselves lead to cheese an broken gameplay. You don't need to go into character sheets and adjust stats or make sweeping changes to how each character functions. Fix the damn mechanics, and 3 skills.
They’re trying to use them as an example. It’s embarrassing to rail someone, but no one else will want to risk follow in their footsteps(remind you of that previous discussion?) The only way they’re going to hold them accountable enough to fix the game is if a lot more people do it in the further part of the tournament, because it needs to be more efficiently in the game itself. It’s not hard to make dashes going away slower than dashes going towards an opponent.
Punishing the players for the TO own incompetance is disgusting and shows they dont deserve a single viewer or competitor. Filth.
This game will never be competitive and they should stop trying to make it so. Competitive Brawl was less of a joke.
Games are allowed to just be for fun too you know.
Okay to be fair this is absolutely shambolic I did not think this is the turn that this was going to take bad bandai namco where's the water bottle we need to spray it like a bad cat.
I don’t agree that just because a game pits players against each other that it should always cater to a competitive audience cuz it inherently has the space for competition…. That’s like saying Mario party is competitive then. Or katamari , Some games are just made to play for shits in giggles and yea they can have a competitive aspect to them and that is being aware that the game isn’t “ competitively balanced” so if you pick a character that is canonically weaker then just like in an actual anime that character is just gonna have to will themselves a victory based on their skill and knowledge of the game and not just because they picked the guy with the strongest move or most health. Both things can be true tbh
You can say the Playstyle shouldn't be punished because the game allows that's disingenuous... any game no matter how well made nowadays can get trivialized by cheese created by the players. Even games of the year titles like elden ring that are inherently meant for offline have the problem of players cheesing bots instead of engaging in honest play. Its literally just the player base of gaming today. This also existed back in the day too but the difference is people were playing for fun with friends on the couch so you wouldn't do bs . But Now that everything is online and most people cant handle losing everyone just plays like a weirdo to protect their ego .
The game development team clearly didn't intend for players to play like weirdos and suck the fun out of it or they wouldn't have banned those two. Sure the game has some fault for allowing it but realistically the person or people thar play like that are at fault because they are making a conscious choice to go into a game search for cheese tactics and then apply it online repeatedly despite knowing it's cheese.
I agree 100% I say it’s a common sense statement
If you choose to play like a tool ruin the tournament don’t expect a reward
I heavily agree, it the developers fault for making their game the way it is. The TOs / Bandi has staged it to say it is the player's fault for why the game is the way it is? Everyone has the tools to run away with the androids so why ban the player? Bandi needs to correct their game and return those banner players to the finals invite to L.A.
Did GBG use items in all his matches or just one specific match? I seen some of his matches but i dont recall any capsules being used , not saying they weren't present but i didnt catch them
So many comments here are still blaming the players despite everything you showed in this video.
It's extremely clear that the Sparking Zero community has no idea how ppl play competitive fighters and expect their opponents to fight with "honor" or some BS.
You clearly missed the point on WHY they are also to blame. Saying it's not their fault is pure ignorance.
Those players are just as much to blame. Just because they could dosen't mean they should.
@sevenapollo6882 yeah
@@sevenapollo6882 See, before I got the evidence that they had specifically asked about this and were not given a clear 'No, do not do that.' (heck, one can reasonably argue they were told 'this is fine'.) I would agree with you. But you can't punish someone for doing what they specifically asked for permission to do, when you gave that permission.
@@Sorain1 If you ask your mom to stick your hand in boiling water and she doesn't answer so you do it, do you blame her when you get burned? I get that the game has problems and I have my own fair share of greivances with it, but this is not how you bring awareness to the problems this only makes you look bad.
Saying that the players bare no responsibility in this situation is stupid because this is something that'd get you DQ'd in any other fighting game and it's no different here. Yes the game needs fixing but that doesn't mean that you go out and make an ass of yourself during an official tournament just to make a point, and if you do decide to then you better be prepared for the consequences and don't go crying when they come.
I can think of times where tournament play resulted in a rule change or adhoc ban on one tactic that the game allows for, but i dont think i've ever seen a set that also resulted in a simultaneous DQ. BN could have just made their rule change and enforced it next meetup. Removing the two winners for finding a winning strategy just flies in the face of being competitive. It's whatever though...the fgc kept laughing at the idea of the game being tournament viable, BN decided to still do a series for it despite their stated design goals, and ultimately the gameplay engine and their designated TOs are just proving the community right.
It's ok to be wrong, i was too unfortunately, but i still believe this game can be viable competitively with a lot of adjustments. but its sad that storm doesn't get this attention from the developers when the game is more viable
People trying to argue the rules arent goofy because the players were being cheesy are goofballs. Unless something is completely overpowering "cheese" is generally fair game in tourney play
No it's not.
Someone's never actually entered a tournament
@@ChrisM-wv4gs Who, me? Most tournaments I have entered never banned anything that wasn't outright impossible to fight against. Like Gambit jumping off screen in MVC2 or 1.0 Kokonoe who had ToD's on nearly the entire cast. Oddly enough in MVC2 some insanely cheesy strats are perfectly fair game. Like the Doom/Strider team is a big example where properly played puts the other player in defense forever and chipping them out. The grand majority of casual players would likely consider Cable in his entirety cheesy. A large part of playing Storm had players jumping super high into the air and spamming heavy for meter gain, Sentinel got abused in big part due to chipping on everything, etc.
Examples in Marvel 3 being when Morrigan got to do her copy super and turn the game into a bullet hell or every team having Phoenix as a third because xfactor level 3 Dark Phoenix was basically god mode.
Make an example of them. It's what I would've done. You can lie and say it's optimal to play the way they were it isn't. You can cry and say it's more important for the players to be able to protest than it is for them to play the game but it isn't. Say what you want when you load up into a tournament with the intention of not playing the game and making a spectacle of yourself you deserve to be banned. To think that these guys thought there would be 0 consequence for this is crazy. You can't just sign up to fight and then not fight then blame the event cause they can't make you fight. Me personally would've shut down the tournament and banned them both on the spot. 100%
Wasn't a rule that said they couldn't. You need to calm down the game doesn't need defended. They aren't going to reach out to you, my friend.
@@SpecialGradeHunter3Imagine needing rules to tell you not to be a dweeb. Lmao couldn't be me
@LowResCatExplosion Sadly at torunaments, you do what you have to in order to win. You would do the same thing if you were in that spot, knowing the other person is going to as well. There is no honor in tournaments.
This tournament just lost all credibility after this decision tbh
Arena fighters will never be competitive.
Self fulfilling prophecy. May be true but this is one of those truths that is better not to accept, because it's not like it COULDN'T happen, just that it consistently doesn't because devs for some reason don't want their games to be good long term.
That is a ridiculous opinion.
Fighting games are inherently competitive. (If I may steal a line out of this very video.)
Gundam Extreme Vs is a bonified e-sport.
@@GambitX37 yeah, that opinion worked out really well for Sparking Zero too.
@@Dhiontae True. and I'm gonna sound like a broken record, but good thing Gundam Extreme Vs limits the boost resource, cuz if not, this fiasco happens
Thanks for exposing this ish Mike, how embarassing really
I was being attacked when I said this game wasn’t competitive. The bleach game is being marketed as competitive. PLEASE SUPPORT THE BLEACH GAME!!!
There's a bleach game?
Made by Bandai
sparking zero and BT3 were never meant to be competitive games!!!!
😂
Also we accept your apology for those of us who KNEW this wasn’t gonna pop off. too many many hands in this pot n every one is attached to a mindless individual tryna just make a buck or gain something of a boost of clout. It’s all weird energy in this group of gamers.
you could just use your common sense that the running away the whole match isn't fun to watch so obviously you shouldn't do it
the mods have to respond to every question or else it's the wild west? furthermore, how is it the tournament hoster's fault that the players are butthurt about the games balance? nobody is forcing you to participate
i 100% agree with the choice to dq the players
Its the admin’s fault for making the rules as vague as possible, ghosting the players (while obviously being there because they were talking a minute before, and lets not act like there was more than one question) and changing the message about the already vague rules AFTER the match to justify the DQ. “Shouldn’t” isn’t enough to justify a DQ anyway. Idk why does it feels so good to suck up Bamco, you won’t get anything out of it.
@@arpadszabo661 projection at its finest. i don't defend bandai cuz i think i'm gonna get anything i defend them cuz they're right
What a joke. Almost as funny as having a pro tour for a game they've openly stated is "not balanced"
“But why did they market it to a competitive scene??”
Because Mike that’s just how the business is when you don’t have the audience appeal. Sucks to suck but this is a valid point going back to something i said along the lines of this is why smash works as a competitor and less of a casual. The team behind melee had 6 months to figure it out n have is one of THE BEST fighters to touch the stars. And now everyone is reaching to have that level of success but with have to work load and a fraction of the team to get into action. It’s the money game these companies are involved in not “let’s make a actually good game and set a solid market for it to grow from its grassroots”
They should tho. But they won’t until we get rid of who is in charge now
Expect smash appeals to both the rules allow competition and casual chaos with a massive roster sure not every character is balences but the sheer amount of viable options makes up for it balence the characters around their DP cost but remove boring cheese fix certain mechanics and if people want a stupid fun mess THERE ARE ITEMS
Yeah the items thing since they didnt address it is far more serious to me and shows this tournament is a joke
What’s going on with the fighting game developers this time around. Hard headed as hell
The crazy part is they removed more casual elements from Tenkachi 3 tbh. In offline play, there's one map. Map destruction is only on planet namek. The game's story is lacking and customization in general is abysmal.
I currently play the game. But just costume battle. The online network is really bad. The characters don't respond on time when you press for a counter or vanishing.
Not gonna lie. They did handle it poorly. But on the other hand. An action can't be made at a reaction.
This only confirms that the December patch will be the make or break the game the online scene as a whole most people don't agree with what Bandai did and it's like they are backtracking as one one hand they never said this game was gonna be Competitive but now they are bring up Code Of Conduct and changing rules at the very last minute after Shinryu and Hillia player it's like the devs can't make up their mind on what they want this game to be. They should had made a open beta before the game released so that way all of us would be able to test it but we didn't get that so now we are stuck in the situation we are in now.
Well said Mike.
This wasnt built for tournies
You wanna solve this up-down-up-down and flying away problem, follow Gundam Extreme Vs' boost resource. It limits how much you can freely fly around for a few seconds and recharges once you land, but at that point, it wouldn't be Tenkaichi anymore now would it? But people want this game to be "competitive" right?
that kind of DBZ game already existed, it's called Zenkai Battle
which is sadly arcade only, just like most of the Gundam VS games
@@tedjomuljono3052 Ah Zenkai Battle. . . I still wish for that game to come to consoles one day
Mike bt3 not a tournament game either wtf 😂😂
No, but it had many tournaments without nonsense drama like this, because organizers made the rules clear and made character ban lists beforehand
I think most of the bt3 fanbase never played the game online. It seemed just as unbalanced as sparking zero
This isn't a tournament game but they ran a tournament anyway and this is what happenes. This game was only ever meant to be played for 30mins at a time with a friend or online (Ranked never should have been included either. Just player matches). They made the game perfect and got the wrong idea about what it could be. I dont play ranked, and I wouldn't play this in a tournament, so I enjoy the game freely. Anyone who thinks the game is competitive in any way is having a field day with all this nonsense. The game isn't competition worthy. It isn't a competitive game. The people playing it are competitive, but that doesn't mean the game is in a state where winning means you're better (which is the essence of competition).
This is like banning people for playing Steve in Ultimate when he came out lol. Steve is objectively broken on many levels. The objective, optimal way to play Steve is turtling, stalling, and running away so you can get resources and force people into horrid situations by sitting behind a wall. Steve and sonic being the most optimal picks in tournaments for Ultimate absolutely sucks the fun out of every match they are in. But instead of consulting the community and limiting Steve’s tech or banning Steve, or balancing Steve so he can’t do that anymore they just banned everyone who played Steve lol. Steve makes the game look bad, not because of the players, but because the optimal game choice is to pick Steve and stall the entire game out with boring tech. So many tournament organizers banned Steve after much thought. A completely optimal playstyle being so absolutely boring it ruins your tournament is 100% on the devs and organizers lol. It’s not like they were exploiting a glitch, or chose to do a boring strategy on purpose even though it wasn’t helping them win or being optimal. That was unironically the 100% optimal playstyle for the game. The only reason these two got banned and not other people that were doing actual exploits is because it absolutely flash banged Bandai’s product and made them look bad. Not because it was boring, but because the game they’re pushing into the competitive scene when played at a tournament level is so absolutely unengaging nobody wants to watch it, commentate on it, or play it.
How is it that the most technical Arena fighter made in the last 10 years is the least tournament viable?
I think sparking zero players should look at games that have balance issues like mvc2 or mvc3. Game has some serious bs and cheese but people still play them competitively because they have accepted the game for what it is. Sparking players have it good since their game is new and still getting support so if any overwhelming tech has been discovered will hopefully be nerfed or removed and if not then at least banned
Wen i won my tournament at my locals i didnt get my reward never playing a sparking tournament again
Was it a booring and lame show for a tournament? Yes. Was it allowed by the tournament? Yes. Anything that isn't strictly forbiden is strictly allowed. This was an L from the organizers for not setting limits and now its an even bigger L for disqualifying players for using a META strategy (for those who dont know Most Effective Tactic Available=META).This wasn't an exhibition match, it was a win or go home match. So even though the match was boring and had no sportmanship it wasn't illegal.
that's fucking stupid. "the tournament rules don't say anything about me dropping pants and shitting on the floor after i lose"
EDIT: there's META, and then there's cheating
Reckon they should have a "tournament" mode that has rebalancing to make everyone viable in tournament play? Or would that be pointless coz the pros (and I imagine many others) would be like "why would we use this mode"... oh yeah and then ranked... hmm... okay I now think this is a bad idea but does anyone want to weigh in on my thinking?
Speaking facts as always.
No words for these TOs ...
Anyone know where to watch the match?
Man this game is doing wonders lmaoo
We been trying to tell yall this this not a competitive game fighting game it’s just a great ass game to have fun with the bro with it’s a great good game just not in a competitive way
And people think the December patch will save the game? Heck no 💀
Honestly the December patch should’ve came weeks ago
Okay Xenoverse fan, calm down. Just because its not a competitive game that should be in tournaments (like literally everyone with a single working braincell said since day 1), doesn’t mean it needs “saving”
@@stefanjuarez6565 U just assumed the dudes' hobbies and his opinions on SZ just from one comment? U need a lot of help getting this emotional over a game catered for teens.
@@stefanjuarez6565 if it’s not intended to be in anyway competitive then it wouldn’t have a ranked mode and leaderboards…(ranked being the main mode that’s keeping the game alive), the game does indeed need saving from it’s current state if it wants to keep players interested.
This tournament just highlighted one of many broken mechanics that can be abused to guarantee wins.
@@stefanjuarez6565 Even if I were a Xenoverse fan, what does that have to do with my comment? I was merely quoting other people who said the December patch will "save" the game. Also did you not WATCH the video? Mike even stated that if the game was intended to be an unbalanced broken mess, why would they HOST tournaments for COMPETITIVE play. Bamco literally CONTRADICTED themselves on that front.
We should not say "this game isnt competitive" we should say "there is design oversights that need fixing for skill expression." there is really good players without abusing cheese, there is a skill ceiling it just cant be shown off as much with the major design oversights and lack of fixes and feedback taken when feedback is necessary for any game to improve, casuals need to stop hating players for wanting to get good at a game they like. Smash brothers was competitive and that wasnt even made with competitive in mind.
In conclusion to sum it up, if there is skill expression like top players in budokai tenchaichi 3 where that game was more nuanced then most casual players think in the small little competitive side to the game. Casuals and competitive players are both important to allow all players to enjoy a game. I like both sides of sparking zero other than flawed mechanics that we all agree need fixing
6:37 This. It seems to me like they want to make this competitively viable, which is fine, but if they are, TREAT IT LIKE A COMPETITIVE FIGHTING GAME. You cant drop the game as a mess then treat like its the next generation of fighting games. They look stupid lol.
imagine being banned because they didnt like how you played and for no other reason 😭
So you trash on the state of the game but when it gets fixed you dont say anything at all?
I love it I said before players who sign up to a tournament to disrespect the viewers deserves this hell banned them for 2 to 3 years yes they need to fix the game but they dont need to allow your level of disrespect they should not be allow in any other tournament of any game you just don't do things like that now I'm not saying that the game can't and shouldn't be fix i said it earlier in my message now yes they need to mention and banned this moves much like any other game does when a player is broken or has a TOD and if they did it is the players that needs to read it which they probably didn't and if they did then move that banned to 5 years
Have you heard about the rumors of Yakuza and Tekken characters in Fortnite?
That made me think of Jonsey in Tekken Heat engager while building.
Damn, i misread it as “Yakuza in Tekken” and got unreasonably happy… lmao. I’m not giving up hope of Kiryu being in Tekken one day as long as the franchise exists