I brought my M&P 12 home 2 days ago... Wanted a home defense shotgun instead of a 'hunting' shotgun since I don't hunt. I feel like this is a great option... Everyone talks about reloading it in stressful situations... If 12+1, 14+1 or 20+1 rounds of 12 ga ammo isn't enough to solve the problem, you're in trouble The whole point of this weapon is to have enough ammo to NOT have to reload
You don’t hunt... yet. By the time Biden is out of office, we’ll all be master outdoorsman from food shortages and supply chain issues. I’ve never seen a president run a country into the ground faster than he has.
@@frawdulent Like many have said, you couldn't do this much damage by accident and you couldn't plan to do this much damage much better. FJB... And as for hunting, that may be true, but maybe I'll just stock up on ammo and let others do the hunting for me and just take theirs 😆
Hey, question, I just got one and working through the manual. Did you do that cleaning they recommend before use or were you able to shoot it out of the case?
You’ve gotta find the entrance to that hole there, I’m sure some of you are familiar with that procedure (says with strait face)… bahahahahaha nice one Eric, keeping it PG without missing out on the fun!
My friend handed me the kel-tek a few days ago to check out. I thought it looked pretty small and then I held it and it weighed quite a bit. He said it's neat, but for quick response house defense, he'd go with one of his more simple to operate guns until he gets more practice in with it. Thanks for the great vids.
I noticed right away how much heavier and generally SOLID this felt compared to Kel-Tec. That and the feel of the action made me understand why this was priced so much more.
People are still hanging on to the Remington R51 pistols. Not me personally though. I'll wait for the Roundhill group (Remington's new owners) to bring Remington's gun designs back to reliability before I buy anything Remington.
Even though nowdays there are so many channels on TH-cam floating around you guys are my favourite period . Iqv8888 keep going 💯 still the fav and always will be I'm a subscriber since Barry and you both started the channel . R.I.P Barry we miss you
@@frenchonion4595 true dat for real life's too short , "Time waits for no man. Time heals all wounds. All any of us can wants, is more time. Time to stand up. Time to grow up. Time to let go." -Meredith Grey
Glad to see it takes mini-shells! Personally, I prefer the ks7 single tube because of the annoyance of having to switch tubes with the KSG but the S&W switching methodology might convince me to go the double tube route.
@@FernandoChaves ran my buddies KSG which sold me on the KS7. Without a doubt, having fully loaded double tubes of the KSG is greatly faster than a KS7 and having to reload it but I also a proponent of not only the simplicity of the ks7 but also the weight savings. Not saying it’s the perfect setup by any means but this S&W may have me reconsider the double tube option.
@@artimla492 The KS7 is an interesting option for sure. I have thought about getting one. There are at least a couple other Turkish pump bullpup options to consider as well though. As far as the KSG, the S&W is the first competitor after 10 years on the market. One thing I love about my KSG is that is fits in my Harley hard saddlebag. The KSG in one side, an AK pistol in the other, and a 9mm on my hip, is a awful lot of mobile firepower. A fully loaded KSG is certainly heavy, and with a lot of that weight out front, unlike a detachable magazine fed semi-auto bullpup 12ga that has that magazine rearward. I have one of those too and really dig it, but it will not fit in my saddlebag.
@@FernandoChaves pros and cons to each thing. But without a doubt, that’s a lot of power on a very small package. Good on you to find the right firearms to fit the right needs. I’m surprised you’re not running a 10mm for a sidearm?
@@artimla492 I have been shooting 9mm for 40 years. I cut my teeth on DA/SA 9mm. And I have a number of 9MM. Old habits die hard I guess. I have nothing against 10mm, just haven't been terribly motivated to chase it.
I just sent mine back because of their recall. Anyone that was manufactured before October 15th has to be sent back to S&W because they found a hairline crack in the barrel of two M&P 12's. I only put 10 rounds of slugs through it, but it is a Beast!
Excellent thorough review. Going to order one. Beretta 1301 COMP with Nordic Components Extended Tube. Holds 10 and 1x in the chamber. Shoots silky smooth and absolutely no kick. Piston operated. BLINK system 4x shots per second. But very long broomstick.
For these double magazine shotguns to really shine, a company needs to design a removable magazine tube. Something that allows you to quickly detach the tube and pop in a new one to really make them viable as more than a range toy
At that point you might as well buy an SRM shotgun and have a semi auto with 4 different magazine tubes comprising a removable and easily changed mag though
DP 12 sucks mainly because the operation is awkward because it requires you to pump, pull trigger 2 times, then pump again. It deviates from standard pump shotgun operation, and would take significant training to be able to run quickly, accurately, and efficiently. I prefer the Tavor TS12, KSG, or even the SRM 1216.
@@diedfrombored5295 I'm not really into shotguns, especially expensive pump shotguns. The only shotgun I own is an old Winchester 1100 with a 28" barrel lol.
@@boomerisadog3899 Yeah same the only one i'd want is one that's a banned semi-auto. Badass 25 round short barrel semi-auto shotgun. Make quite a mess out of some thugs.
The bottom eject and ambi. Stuff i like. Being a lefty in the shooters world sucks.. Shells wing past my face hit my arm. Or just using a safety.. Or putting it on when i shoot.
I could see this shotgun being used by a SWAT team member to clear a building with, but not much else. It's short(good for clearing buildings), has good capacity(always a plus), has no barrel length sticking out from beyond the pump(barrel can't be grabbed and the gun yanked away from officer), the ability to mount optics/lights is much improved over most police shotguns, and the dual tube design allows you to load one with buckshot and the other with slugs - reducing the time needed to load and chamber a slug when you need to make a more distant shot outside of a building or in a warehouse/factory type building. Home defense is also a potential use, but imo for most people it's unnecessarily complex and pricey in comparison to the old standby Remington 870s and Mossberg 88/500/590s. I don't think it will do well as far as sales numbers(It's about $350 more than the KSG), but it's good to see S&W venture into what is for them uncharted territory.
Once again. Great video from 8888. But now, it's official, we as viewers and pur-chasers would like to see a comparison between the top 3-4 bullpup pump 12ga with a gauntlet test for each. S&W, KSG, TAVOR,...? Can't wait. Thanks 😊 🙏
@@scottlawrence1826 The TAVOR Tactical 12 gauge shotgun is a gas regulated bullpup shotgun. Which wouldn't be a pump action, but a semi auto? Still with multiple feeding tubes. So we're both partly confused, lol.
They could also throw in some of the newer Turkish Bullpup shotguns, just for poops and Snickers. They're not my cup of tea but I'd like to see how they fared against a gauntlet style test.
Why is it so hard for someone to make a shotgun like this that automatically switches to the next tube once one runs dry....that could be the difference between life and death
I've never understood that either... like couldn't the follower on the first tube have a small arm that trips the lever over to the second tube as the first tubes last round is chambered? Seems so simple in my mind.
The Utas UTS-15 has dual 7-round magazines with automatic alternating or selectable feed. Not sure where it is on the reliability metrics these days but it at least allows you to feed from both tubes at the same time.
Really cool video! Nice KSG update. "It does take it's lineage from another very popular shotgun that's out there." The KSG fits in my Harley hard saddlebag. The biggest difference between the KSG and the S&W is that the KSG was released in 2011. Before looking at any of the details of the design differences, that is the first matter that must be observed. The hand runs into the trigger guard on the S&W because the forward grip on the S&W is present, take it off and the hand is clear. The importance of the presence of that grip is to keep your hand from slipping in front of the muzzle on the forward stroke. This is why a forward grip is often recommended on the KSG, of course. It's a simple accessory, not really a feature or design element. Beyond that, the magazine selector placement is the biggest practical difference, which apparently took another pound to accomplish. With an aftermarket accessory extended magazine selector, the KSG can be operated with the wrist on the primary hand without releasing the grip. Loading is less cumbersome from other shotguns (plural) in this particular range? There is only one other shotgun in this range. Loading the S&W seems about the same as loading the KSG. What is amazing to me is that the KSG was so derided for the basic design by so many yet some that have derided it are not deriding the S&W for the same things. Reloading is a matter of practice and training, but even more to the point the design makes that matter superfluous. This isn't a competition shotgun. In a defense situation, if you can't do the job with those two magazine tubes, you likely have bigger problems than a single firearm could handle. Further, the option of mini-shells only further makes that point. Gotta dig the S&W version of this design, and I am getting one. But I am pretty sure it will not fit in my Harley hard saddlebag. Oh, and it only took 10 years to move the magazine selector. It's certainly not a jungle and mud and muck shotgun at all. There are no such environments in my house nor in 98% of situations where I would be realistically needing such a shotgun. After 10 years, the KSG has a competitor.
I expect this to have better components than the KSG. Less polymer. If not, what is the point ? The loading/unloading tabs and the magazine selector in a different place minus the ability to set it to alter mags so you don't have to mess with it at all ? They both added and removed convenience and functionality at the same time. Dumb. These guns, especially this one, are definitely not meant for use in any kind of field/adverse conditions. This thing has as many ingress points as a cheese cloth. To top it off, this thing is bigger/bulkier and it manages to be ugly as sin. It's not *that* different from the KSG, but the KSG actually looks good. How did they manage that ?
"What is amazing to me is that the KSG was so derided for the basic design by so many yet some that have derided it are not deriding the S&W for the same things." I mean, the S&W gun has only been out for a few weeks, so you probably haven't seen much of what you're claiming. "After 10 years, the KSG has a competitor." Yeah, almost like other gun companies were giving it a good bit of time to see how the market would take to such a weapon. But hey, keep making blithe comparisons like "herpa derpa 10 years to move the magazine selector". What I find hilarious is that you didn't bring up the lack of a shell deflector.
@@cstgraphpads2091 I believe we have seen what I am claiming already, pretty clearly. I am getting a S&W, already have a KSG, plan to keep both. I am not sure what your issues are. Maybe you can comment on your KSG or M&P-12?
@Nathan 10 years? Yup. That's what it took. I haven't got one yet, so I don't know if it fits in my Harley saddlebag like the KSG. That's a really important point to me.
@@nelsonr1467 I’ve heard stories of the newer made ones having metal shavings coming out the chamber the first time you pump it, anyone have any experience with that because I would like to own an 870
@@animalmother5902 dude I just bought a new in the box 870 express 2019 production. The chamber is near perfect no burrs or not rough at all. it's very smooth all around. And it not the rust bucket people say. I live in humid North Carolina I can attest.
@@nelsonr1467 oh yeah I know how that NC humidity is, the carcano that was passed to me by my grandpa was stored in a wood gun cabinet that had no moisture control for most of his life so I had a fun time cleaning it up
That is gorgeous. But what I like about the lever on the KSG12 is you can leave it in the middle stopping shells from clambering acting as a 2nd safety.
I just bought one yesterday I wanted to learn more and your video popped up. I appreciate it! Also I hit that follow button as well lol keep them coming!
Dude, thank you so much for your videos. Can you please make a video discussing the 3 most durable handguns, shotguns and rifles? The sorta stuff you can run over with a truck, set on fire and piss on to put it out and it would still run like a champ. Looking to upgrade my shopping list. Thank you, brother!
Very perfect video and love it I actually purchased one and handles very well with slugs 1600 velocity and Remington’s 1320 velocity very beautiful loading it. I forgot that those release levers were there so I was pushing them in in an angle like you were saying and hard. I ended up taking a piece of my finger the skin not a big deal, but I’m going to remember about to leave now😂😂😂😂
Loading isn’t that bad on this firearm or the KSG (Which I own). Just takes some practice and getting used to. I load my KSG with my left hand on the VFG bracing it up to my shoulder still aiming on target and reload the shells into the tube without having to look or flip the gun. With practice and repetition I can reload my KSG with the same speed as my 590.
I like My DP-12 It has to barrels and I of excellent build quality but either way these types of shotguns are just so much fun at the range and to be honest I wouldn’t hesitate to use mine as a serious self defense option it has been very reliable
When I went through Basic Training in 1989, we used M-16A1s, and those definitely had issues when they got dirty. I'm not sure what was modified, but once I was issued an A2 after Basic, it ran just fine with dust and mud. This shotgun is pretty badass though! I'm gonna look it up and see what the MSRP is!
Mechanically it should be a easy thing to design and put in a transfer arm/piece that automatically switches to the other mag-tube when the first used feeds the last round in it(kind of a duh' oversight from S&W since it is both a big and obvious advantage and mechanically doable without much fuss...), and it should be doable in a way that retains the manual tube select option(which is more of a gimmick than anything with realistic real-world usability)...
Ordered one from my preferred dealer and already read the article in Shooting Illus. Got it in 2 days but it was under the S&M recall so had them send it back as we must wait 3 days anyway. So hope it comes in next week. Nice review. You're now subscribed........please do a cleaning review? Every lil bit helps! Thx......
No... it holds 10 minishells in each tube, 20+1 total. And I don't know where you get 2 in the barrels... this is a single barrel gun. I own this gun, so yes, I know what it's capacity and functions are.
What’s up Eric how you doing? I wanted to ask you what kind of optic would you recommend for the MMP 12 I purchased one and there’s a range I go to that don’t allow anyone that has those particular tactical shotguns without a scope tissue like for instance, the one you have on that MMP 12 and white wool. A reasonable price will be just for indoor range and outdoor range. Thank you.
Reloading a bullpup shotgun is awkward, but a friend of mine figured something that works for him. He just rest his KSG upside down on his left arm, grabbing the gun with his left hand, and then push shells into the tubes with his right hand.
The thing most people forget is that switching magazines does not change what's already in the chamber. Some people tried to use one mag for non-lethal ammo, and the other for lethal ammo, and switching it from one to the other... Just remember if there is something already in the chamber. This is a practice I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND.
You can also press the button fully and you get a shell fountain lol. I never owned a Smith and Wesson till this shotgun and I'm pretty happy with it so far. To be honest I prefer it without the front pistol grip.
Great review. Very good job touching on the loading of the system. I do not see the rail-mounted sight listed in your description. I was not able to find it in the comment section. What type of sight do you have on the rail? Thanks.
@@pennywisdom9435 it’s called a joke, Penny. It looks like both, doesn’t mean it has to have two barrels. The furniture and operations are a mix of both, that’s the joke.
Will it feed the minis? KSG cycles them flawlessly its a big deal if you wanna maximize the double tube capacity. Getting 22rnds fully loaded mini shells with the KSG
They've had the Governor out for a while already. It simply looking the same really isn't an issue, given that pretty much every revolver they make looks the same as every other revolver.
May be challenging to load but you can top it off as you move on. I think. 😉 This intrigues me. 15 + 12 guage buckshot for home defense is likely adequate. God bless all here
Nice addition and review. Do you know if M&P12 is drop safe? For me personally, I would like to see an easier loading ability or mod...possibly to flair the outside slightly. If you are in a stressful situation, that loading area and manual of arms could be more smoother. It would be interesting to see that with a rear mag configuration.
Speaking from the perspective of the KSG, the manual of arms does get a lot smoother with practice. It was a totally new platform. I haven't loaded mine muzzle down like that since late 2014 lol
Great video and review, not excited about this gun because it doesn't seem to offer any advantages over any good standard pump or auto. I get the idea of 15 rounds ready to go, but the reload is horrible and it seems so damn bulky and cumbersome. That said, I wouldn't cry if someone gave me one as a gift. 🇺🇸
Bought a ksg after watching many reviews and keltec lived up to its name. It didn't function properly. I'll stick to my Mossbergs, they've never let me down, not once, after years of abuse!
@@jechezeqelgonzalez9263 keltek makes gimmicky plastic guns. They have some parts even 3d printed. Nothing wrong with it if its a range toy. Ill stick to reputable manufacturers like FN,Glock,S&W and Magnum Research.
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I brought my M&P 12 home 2 days ago... Wanted a home defense shotgun instead of a 'hunting' shotgun since I don't hunt.
I feel like this is a great option... Everyone talks about reloading it in stressful situations... If 12+1, 14+1 or 20+1 rounds of 12 ga ammo isn't enough to solve the problem, you're in trouble
The whole point of this weapon is to have enough ammo to NOT have to reload
You don’t hunt... yet. By the time Biden is out of office, we’ll all be master outdoorsman from food shortages and supply chain issues. I’ve never seen a president run a country into the ground faster than he has.
@@frawdulent Like many have said, you couldn't do this much damage by accident and you couldn't plan to do this much damage much better.
FJB...
And as for hunting, that may be true, but maybe I'll just stock up on ammo and let others do the hunting for me and just take theirs 😆
Home defense from what
@@Ambitious_973 Zombie's what do you think?
Hey, question, I just got one and working through the manual. Did you do that cleaning they recommend before use or were you able to shoot it out of the case?
Keltec: check our KSG
Smith&Wesson: check out OUR KSG
Copy and paste basically
I was just about to say it looks like a keltec design
I think its more of a BP 12 knockoff than a Keltec IMO.
If bp 12 and keltec had a baby 😆
@@richieglass6798 different furniture, that makes it a TOTALLY DIFFERENT gun
If you still need to reload under fire after 15 rounds of buck shot then you probably have bigger issues than reloading lol
That’s why you use Vepr12 aka Borris
If you need to keep up a higher volume of fire than that, you need to be using a rifle
@@fujimi715 exactly
@@fujimi715 That's only one of the reasons why I would just START with the rifle. I wish S&W well with their shotgun though.
@@Sherman62 a rifle is a superior weapon anyway. A situation where you are using a shotgun just use an SBR
You’ve gotta find the entrance to that hole there, I’m sure some of you are familiar with that procedure (says with strait face)… bahahahahaha nice one Eric, keeping it PG without missing out on the fun!
Damn that sound when its racked...sweet Christmas
I rented this gun in Texas and honestly as impractical it is, it’s an awesome bull pop. Good job Smith and Weston!
My friend handed me the kel-tek a few days ago to check out. I thought it looked pretty small and then I held it and it weighed quite a bit. He said it's neat, but for quick response house defense, he'd go with one of his more simple to operate guns until he gets more practice in with it. Thanks for the great vids.
This is actually much heavier than the KSG.
I noticed right away how much heavier and generally SOLID this felt compared to Kel-Tec. That and the feel of the action made me understand why this was priced so much more.
Exactly. Fat, heavy, clunky pigs. SW bullpup is the same.
I'd like to see kel-tec make a modern lever action rifle with 2 magazine tubes. maybe for a range of different calibers.
Why don’t you go apply for a job with them lol that seems like something they’d make
Yeah that's actually not a bad Idea
Do you think before you type? Holy shit.
@@jessiebreaux7996 Why????????
Or not......sounds like an idea that nerf would put into production.
Águilas are great to reduce recoil as well. It’s definitely a good idea to use low recoil shells for home defense. Thanks for doing the full report.
I like Smith and Wesson products but I think I'll pass on this one. Then again, I could buy one for the sake of preserving firearms history.
People are still hanging on to the Remington R51 pistols. Not me personally though. I'll wait for the Roundhill group (Remington's new owners) to bring Remington's gun designs back to reliability before I buy anything Remington.
There’s 1001 ways to justify a firearm purchase!!
It's a knockoff of the actual GOOD DP-12 shotgun, plus DP-12 gets two shots per pump.
Even though nowdays there are so many channels on TH-cam floating around you guys are my favourite period .
Iqv8888 keep going 💯 still the fav and always will be I'm a subscriber since Barry and you both started the channel .
R.I.P Barry we miss you
Crazy it's been 8 years already. Time freaking fly's
@@frenchonion4595 true dat for real life's too short , "Time waits for no man. Time heals all wounds. All any of us can wants, is more time. Time to stand up. Time to grow up. Time to let go." -Meredith Grey
Glad to see it takes mini-shells! Personally, I prefer the ks7 single tube because of the annoyance of having to switch tubes with the KSG but the S&W switching methodology might convince me to go the double tube route.
Easier and faster to switch tubes on a KSG than to reload a KS7. Do you actually have both or are you speculating?
@@FernandoChaves ran my buddies KSG which sold me on the KS7. Without a doubt, having fully loaded double tubes of the KSG is greatly faster than a KS7 and having to reload it but I also a proponent of not only the simplicity of the ks7 but also the weight savings. Not saying it’s the perfect setup by any means but this S&W may have me reconsider the double tube option.
@@artimla492 The KS7 is an interesting option for sure. I have thought about getting one. There are at least a couple other Turkish pump bullpup options to consider as well though. As far as the KSG, the S&W is the first competitor after 10 years on the market. One thing I love about my KSG is that is fits in my Harley hard saddlebag. The KSG in one side, an AK pistol in the other, and a 9mm on my hip, is a awful lot of mobile firepower. A fully loaded KSG is certainly heavy, and with a lot of that weight out front, unlike a detachable magazine fed semi-auto bullpup 12ga that has that magazine rearward. I have one of those too and really dig it, but it will not fit in my saddlebag.
@@FernandoChaves pros and cons to each thing. But without a doubt, that’s a lot of power on a very small package. Good on you to find the right firearms to fit the right needs. I’m surprised you’re not running a 10mm for a sidearm?
@@artimla492 I have been shooting 9mm for 40 years. I cut my teeth on DA/SA 9mm. And I have a number of 9MM. Old habits die hard I guess. I have nothing against 10mm, just haven't been terribly motivated to chase it.
What a beast. Gotta get me one of those.
I just sent mine back because of their recall. Anyone that was manufactured before October 15th has to be sent back to S&W because they found a hairline crack in the barrel of two M&P 12's. I only put 10 rounds of slugs through it, but it is a Beast!
good to know.
Excellent thorough review. Going to order one. Beretta 1301 COMP with Nordic Components Extended Tube. Holds 10 and 1x in the chamber. Shoots silky smooth and absolutely no kick. Piston operated. BLINK system 4x shots per second. But very long broomstick.
For these double magazine shotguns to really shine, a company needs to design a removable magazine tube. Something that allows you to quickly detach the tube and pop in a new one to really make them viable as more than a range toy
Like on the game killing floor 2
The tavor 12 is pretty cool
At that point you might as well buy an SRM shotgun and have a semi auto with 4 different magazine tubes comprising a removable and easily changed mag though
They would be bulky but I guess better than a dangerously long reload.
You’d consider this just a range toy? Lmao
Very cool,I’m surprised it took the mini shells so well!! Also like how Smith and Wesson they made it with the M&P slide cuts and grip style!👍🏿
So it's a re branded KSG? Or no?
I prefer the DP12 from standard manufacturing with its double barrel setup.
DP 12 sucks mainly because the operation is awkward because it requires you to pump, pull trigger 2 times, then pump again. It deviates from standard pump shotgun operation, and would take significant training to be able to run quickly, accurately, and efficiently. I prefer the Tavor TS12, KSG, or even the SRM 1216.
Shout out to that bad ass fender hat!
Love the channel so much. Just ordered an Aero lower. Love this country
This country’s gone to hell unless you’re in a rural area
I used to like this country. Doesn't feel like home anymore
God i love this shotgun
It gives me a chub!
me: "can we get a ksg"?
parents: "we have a ksg at home".
-ksg at home:
Neither are really my thing but I like this better than the ksg.
I think you have that backwards
@@boomerisadog3899 Then get the DP-12 because it's better than both of these and the M&P tried to clone it
@@diedfrombored5295 I'm not really into shotguns, especially expensive pump shotguns. The only shotgun I own is an old Winchester 1100 with a 28" barrel lol.
@@boomerisadog3899 Yeah same the only one i'd want is one that's a banned semi-auto.
Badass 25 round short barrel semi-auto shotgun.
Make quite a mess out of some thugs.
The bottom eject and ambi. Stuff i like.
Being a lefty in the shooters world sucks.. Shells wing past my face hit my arm. Or just using a safety.. Or putting it on when i shoot.
This whole loading procedure really makes me love my Nova all the more.
Eric,
I've got some single .78 caliber round ball (slug, but more musket) handloads for the 10ga "thumpers" if yall would like to try some?
The S&W M&P12 has been recalled due to barrel cracks. Send them in if you got one already.
Nice to see a left handed friendly firearm
Yes. Most bullpup designs aren't ambidextrous or lefty friendly because of loading/ejection ports.
I could see this shotgun being used by a SWAT team member to clear a building with, but not much else. It's short(good for clearing buildings), has good capacity(always a plus), has no barrel length sticking out from beyond the pump(barrel can't be grabbed and the gun yanked away from officer), the ability to mount optics/lights is much improved over most police shotguns, and the dual tube design allows you to load one with buckshot and the other with slugs - reducing the time needed to load and chamber a slug when you need to make a more distant shot outside of a building or in a warehouse/factory type building. Home defense is also a potential use, but imo for most people it's unnecessarily complex and pricey in comparison to the old standby Remington 870s and Mossberg 88/500/590s. I don't think it will do well as far as sales numbers(It's about $350 more than the KSG), but it's good to see S&W venture into what is for them uncharted territory.
We really do live in the future. Firearms are starting to look like space guns more often than not.
you'll need them against the robodogs with mounted guns they just started testing XD
Once again. Great video from 8888. But now, it's official, we as viewers and pur-chasers would like to see a comparison between the top 3-4 bullpup pump 12ga with a gauntlet test for each. S&W, KSG, TAVOR,...? Can't wait. Thanks 😊 🙏
SRM 1216
DP 12
Ain’t the tavor a 5.56 gun?
@@scottlawrence1826 Tavor TS12 is a shotgun
@@scottlawrence1826 The TAVOR Tactical 12 gauge shotgun is a gas regulated bullpup shotgun. Which wouldn't be a pump action, but a semi auto? Still with multiple feeding tubes. So we're both partly confused, lol.
They could also throw in some of the newer Turkish Bullpup shotguns, just for poops and Snickers. They're not my cup of tea but I'd like to see how they fared against a gauntlet style test.
I took a look at this in my local gun store. The forearm was super loose and rattle-y, felt very cheap for a $1000 gun.
1000 dollars? Whole lotta nope
on this piece
@@tonyelbows8045 Exactly, at that price I could arm an entire basketball team with Maverick 88's and have change left over!
@@PaleandPastey 🤣 🤣 🤣
first thing i thought when i started this video was "man this thing looks clunky" thats before I knew it was $1000. gonna be a no from me.
It would be a $600 gun if we had a different president and less inflation.
Looking forward to what S&W come up with once they finish moving to TN!!
Pretty cool that it will cycle the Mini-shells.
GREAT VIDEO - best one I've found on the Smith & Wesson M&P-12. Answered all my questions. Thanks!
Why is it so hard for someone to make a shotgun like this that automatically switches to the next tube once one runs dry....that could be the difference between life and death
I've never understood that either... like couldn't the follower on the first tube have a small arm that trips the lever over to the second tube as the first tubes last round is chambered?
Seems so simple in my mind.
The Utas UTS-15 has dual 7-round magazines with automatic alternating or selectable feed. Not sure where it is on the reliability metrics these days but it at least allows you to feed from both tubes at the same time.
Just one more mechanism to malfunction. I can't imagine too many situations where you'd need that much 12 gauge without reloading.
@@hamie7624 must not have a very active imagination 😅
Why is it so hard for people to make a drum fed semi-auto shotgun?
I was literally the first person in middle TN to own the mp 12. It had been out for all of 2 hours when I bought it. I love it.
How do you like it
Seems like a fun Toy for the range and that's about it.
Let's go Brandon!
Like the KSG?
@@borkwoof696 I'm not familiar with the ksg.
Let's go Brandon!
Yea. Never understood a shotgun being a range toy. This thing is ridiculous
I hate people that take shotguns to the range and completely destroy the target holders. Super gay.
Really cool video! Nice KSG update. "It does take it's lineage from another very popular shotgun that's out there." The KSG fits in my Harley hard saddlebag. The biggest difference between the KSG and the S&W is that the KSG was released in 2011. Before looking at any of the details of the design differences, that is the first matter that must be observed. The hand runs into the trigger guard on the S&W because the forward grip on the S&W is present, take it off and the hand is clear. The importance of the presence of that grip is to keep your hand from slipping in front of the muzzle on the forward stroke. This is why a forward grip is often recommended on the KSG, of course. It's a simple accessory, not really a feature or design element. Beyond that, the magazine selector placement is the biggest practical difference, which apparently took another pound to accomplish. With an aftermarket accessory extended magazine selector, the KSG can be operated with the wrist on the primary hand without releasing the grip. Loading is less cumbersome from other shotguns (plural) in this particular range? There is only one other shotgun in this range. Loading the S&W seems about the same as loading the KSG. What is amazing to me is that the KSG was so derided for the basic design by so many yet some that have derided it are not deriding the S&W for the same things. Reloading is a matter of practice and training, but even more to the point the design makes that matter superfluous. This isn't a competition shotgun. In a defense situation, if you can't do the job with those two magazine tubes, you likely have bigger problems than a single firearm could handle. Further, the option of mini-shells only further makes that point. Gotta dig the S&W version of this design, and I am getting one. But I am pretty sure it will not fit in my Harley hard saddlebag. Oh, and it only took 10 years to move the magazine selector. It's certainly not a jungle and mud and muck shotgun at all. There are no such environments in my house nor in 98% of situations where I would be realistically needing such a shotgun. After 10 years, the KSG has a competitor.
I expect this to have better components than the KSG. Less polymer. If not, what is the point ? The loading/unloading tabs and the magazine selector in a different place minus the ability to set it to alter mags so you don't have to mess with it at all ? They both added and removed convenience and functionality at the same time. Dumb.
These guns, especially this one, are definitely not meant for use in any kind of field/adverse conditions. This thing has as many ingress points as a cheese cloth.
To top it off, this thing is bigger/bulkier and it manages to be ugly as sin. It's not *that* different from the KSG, but the KSG actually looks good. How did they manage that ?
"What is amazing to me is that the KSG was so derided for the basic design by so many yet some that have derided it are not deriding the S&W for the same things."
I mean, the S&W gun has only been out for a few weeks, so you probably haven't seen much of what you're claiming.
"After 10 years, the KSG has a competitor."
Yeah, almost like other gun companies were giving it a good bit of time to see how the market would take to such a weapon. But hey, keep making blithe comparisons like "herpa derpa 10 years to move the magazine selector".
What I find hilarious is that you didn't bring up the lack of a shell deflector.
@@cstgraphpads2091 I believe we have seen what I am claiming already, pretty clearly. I am getting a S&W, already have a KSG, plan to keep both. I am not sure what your issues are. Maybe you can comment on your KSG or M&P-12?
@Nathan 10 years? Yup. That's what it took. I haven't got one yet, so I don't know if it fits in my Harley saddlebag like the KSG. That's a really important point to me.
I'll stick with my 590A1 and 870.
870
@@henrystutman5636 870 for me.
@@nelsonr1467 I’ve heard stories of the newer made ones having metal shavings coming out the chamber the first time you pump it, anyone have any experience with that because I would like to own an 870
@@animalmother5902 dude I just bought a new in the box 870 express 2019 production. The chamber is near perfect no burrs or not rough at all. it's very smooth all around. And it not the rust bucket people say. I live in humid North Carolina I can attest.
@@nelsonr1467 oh yeah I know how that NC humidity is, the carcano that was passed to me by my grandpa was stored in a wood gun cabinet that had no moisture control for most of his life so I had a fun time cleaning it up
Watch the early KSG company videos reloading without removal from the shoulder, takes practice but it's quick.
That's what I do, kind of hard to describe but easy to demonstrate. I didn't realize Kel-Tec had videos showing this procedure.
Already recalled 😂😂😂 good old s&w
Glad I waited a bit. Mine is exempt from the recall. Bought it in 2022
I'll Just keep my Mossberg 500 !!
That is gorgeous. But what I like about the lever on the KSG12 is you can leave it in the middle stopping shells from clambering acting as a 2nd safety.
Definitely would be a strong contender if I was in the market for a bullpup... think I'll stick with my 590A1 for now though. 😀
My choice as well!
Agreed, bps is super smooth. Old wingmasters are also incredibly smooth
Slugs on the left< dragons breath on the >right
So wait, does that mean S&W will be selling those AR pistol grips separately?
Well that would require them listening to their customer base and giving them something they actually want🤷♂️
Well my SWBI shares are doing well & this is one explaination to why that is.
G17 hogue grips fit the KSG better than fine!
Good point! I think that could be a valid & worthwhile replacement.
Once there’s a surplus I sure hope so!
Can’t wait for the KSG comparison vid!
That was a fast recall!
I'm not a fan of bull pup designs but I do love S&W and this shotgun is pretty cool.
Always great content brother! I need that shotgun!
This one got me excited tbh. Finally a chance for bullpup shotgun done right... or mostly right ;)
The EOTECH 512 looks right at home on top of that shotgun!
I like the Holosun AEMS better.
I own an EoTech. Also better than the “Huey” UH1
Very informative and useful video. I appreciated your insights on some of the details. Thank you.
those 30 dislikes are from ksg owners that can't stand other bullpups
THIS GUY IS GREAT! i have watched so many videos and he is so descriptive and knowledgeable keep the videso coming!
I just bought one yesterday I wanted to learn more and your video popped up. I appreciate it! Also I hit that follow button as well lol keep them coming!
I got plenty of shotguns... I'll take 2.
Thanks for the video, catching up on old videos. Thanks for the refresh on the procedure. Lol
Dude, thank you so much for your videos. Can you please make a video discussing the 3 most durable handguns, shotguns and rifles? The sorta stuff you can run over with a truck, set on fire and piss on to put it out and it would still run like a champ. Looking to upgrade my shopping list. Thank you, brother!
Very perfect video and love it I actually purchased one and handles very well with slugs 1600 velocity and Remington’s 1320 velocity very beautiful loading it. I forgot that those release levers were there so I was pushing them in in an angle like you were saying and hard. I ended up taking a piece of my finger the skin not a big deal, but I’m going to remember about to leave now😂😂😂😂
More MELTDOWNS pleaseeeeeee.......!
Ultimate shotgun: bullpup that can be pump or semi-auto ala SPAS12, with removable magazine tubes for fast reloads. Make it happen! (probably Keltec)
How much weight would be added for that feature and multiple tubes. I like that they are experimenting but its more cumbersome than a 870 or Mossberg.
Those magnum slugs looked like black powder with the amount of smoke
Carry two of them, you will have 30 shells. Its always faster to go to your sidearm than reload.
Loading isn’t that bad on this firearm or the KSG (Which I own). Just takes some practice and getting used to. I load my KSG with my left hand on the VFG bracing it up to my shoulder still aiming on target and reload the shells into the tube without having to look or flip the gun. With practice and repetition I can reload my KSG with the same speed as my 590.
i like it. As a 80s kid I love that blocky transformer look
I like My DP-12 It has to barrels and I of excellent build quality but either way these types of shotguns are just so much fun at the range and to be honest I wouldn’t hesitate to use mine as a serious self defense option it has been very reliable
These had a recall, i still want a DP-12.
Good overview of another interesting bullpup shotgun.
Eric, You're the best!!!
When I went through Basic Training in 1989, we used M-16A1s, and those definitely had issues when they got dirty. I'm not sure what was modified, but once I was issued an A2 after Basic, it ran just fine with dust and mud. This shotgun is pretty badass though! I'm gonna look it up and see what the MSRP is!
Mechanically it should be a easy thing to design and put in a transfer arm/piece that automatically switches to the other mag-tube when the first used feeds the last round in it(kind of a duh' oversight from S&W since it is both a big and obvious advantage and mechanically doable without much fuss...), and it should be doable in a way that retains the manual tube select option(which is more of a gimmick than anything with realistic real-world usability)...
Ordered one from my preferred dealer and already read the article in Shooting Illus. Got it in 2 days but it was under the S&M recall so had them send it back as we must wait 3 days anyway. So hope it comes in next week. Nice review. You're now subscribed........please do a cleaning review? Every lil bit helps! Thx......
Dang looks like someone at Smith &Wesson was watching Battlestar Galactica lol I love it.
"Sorry watermelon, Its you or me" lol I love this channel
Pleasantly thorough & informative !
Do we need to buy them now before keltec sues them into the dirt🤣
With mini shells this gun holds 11 in each tube,
Total capacity with mini shells is 24!
22 in the tubes, 2 in the barrels.
Time to kill zombies!
No... it holds 10 minishells in each tube, 20+1 total.
And I don't know where you get 2 in the barrels... this is a single barrel gun.
I own this gun, so yes, I know what it's capacity and functions are.
This is a beautiful looking shotgun
You can change feed tubes by bumping selector with your forearm without removing your hands from the grips.
What’s up Eric how you doing? I wanted to ask you what kind of optic would you recommend for the MMP 12 I purchased one and there’s a range I go to that don’t allow anyone that has those particular tactical shotguns without a scope tissue like for instance, the one you have on that MMP 12 and white wool. A reasonable price will be just for indoor range and outdoor range. Thank you.
Definitely want to see a bullpup shotgun shootout
Reloading a bullpup shotgun is awkward, but a friend of mine figured something that works for him. He just rest his KSG upside down on his left arm, grabbing the gun with his left hand, and then push shells into the tubes with his right hand.
The 'slide-pumping' sounds so dramatic lol, I like it. :D
Hay when the 870 is out, I be still going, Love my KSG
The thing most people forget is that switching magazines does not change what's already in the chamber. Some people tried to use one mag for non-lethal ammo, and the other for lethal ammo, and switching it from one to the other... Just remember if there is something already in the chamber. This is a practice I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND.
You can also press the button fully and you get a shell fountain lol. I never owned a Smith and Wesson till this shotgun and I'm pretty happy with it so far. To be honest I prefer it without the front pistol grip.
Great review. Very good job touching on the loading of the system. I do not see the rail-mounted sight listed in your description. I was not able to find it in the comment section. What type of sight do you have on the rail? Thanks.
If a KSG 12 and a DP12 hooked up=M&P 12
@@pennywisdom9435 it’s called a joke, Penny. It looks like both, doesn’t mean it has to have two barrels. The furniture and operations are a mix of both, that’s the joke.
Will it feed the minis? KSG cycles them flawlessly its a big deal if you wanna maximize the double tube capacity. Getting 22rnds fully loaded mini shells with the KSG
apparently it runs mini's with modification.
I heard it was built with mini shells in mind, idk if there's an adapter or if they run with no mods.
He loads and fires 21 in the video,no problem. Just watch. Jesus
Did any of you watch the video? Finish the video, maybe he answers your question. 🤦♂️
Interesting shot gun!! Glad to see another bull pup shot gun entry!!!
Lineage? KSG? So S&W made a clone? "Made it their own'? The arm chair lawyer in me finds this problematic.
They've had the Governor out for a while already. It simply looking the same really isn't an issue, given that pretty much every revolver they make looks the same as every other revolver.
They cloned the DP-12 and this MP is a terrible clone.
NICE no flinch!
May be challenging to load but you can top it off as you move on. I think. 😉 This intrigues me. 15 + 12 guage buckshot for home defense is likely adequate.
God bless all here
Very nice, thanks for the video!
Nice addition and review. Do you know if M&P12 is drop safe? For me personally, I would like to see an easier loading ability or mod...possibly to flair the outside slightly. If you are in a stressful situation, that loading area and manual of arms could be more smoother. It would be interesting to see that with a rear mag configuration.
Speaking from the perspective of the KSG, the manual of arms does get a lot smoother with practice. It was a totally new platform. I haven't loaded mine muzzle down like that since late 2014 lol
Shotguns are never drop safe.
I'm surprised too. Is that a _"new"_ *Smith & Wesson M&P-12* or an _"old"_ *Kel-Tex KSG* which broke/breaks a lot.
Great video and review, not excited about this gun because it doesn't seem to offer any advantages over any good standard pump or auto. I get the idea of 15 rounds ready to go, but the reload is horrible and it seems so damn bulky and cumbersome. That said, I wouldn't cry if someone gave me one as a gift. 🇺🇸
Come on man, where u gonna get a shotgun that holds 15 rounds ??? After that, pitch it and run like hell !!!
@@thatsmytwocents4372 would be cooler if it was a semi auto then It def would be a buy lmao
Bought a ksg after watching many reviews and keltec lived up to its name. It didn't function properly. I'll stick to my Mossbergs, they've never let me down, not once, after years of abuse!
Funny how I have not had 1 problem at all with my KSG, that said I also own mossberg 12gauge.
@@jechezeqelgonzalez9263 keltek makes gimmicky plastic guns. They have some parts even 3d printed. Nothing wrong with it if its a range toy. Ill stick to reputable manufacturers like FN,Glock,S&W and Magnum Research.