Cardassians: that children's story is a big graphic for kids..! Also Cardassians: Here you go, Daughter. Here's my pet human. I've been torturing it for weeks.
Habituation, people become accustomed to situations. We had a neighbour who lived near us who used to bang the doors and windows, we simply got used to him. The Nazis went home after killing babies and had dinner with their families, the got used to violence. People can embrace great contradictions!
I mean, that is definitely a lesson you can take from the story. Fables like these were told to teach children from the mistakes of others in a memorable way. There are many interpretations to this story- if others expect you to lie nobody will believe you, if you repeat lies you can be more easily caught in a lie, if you don't trust the person guarding your flock the flock may be eaten, and so on. All these interpretations have some validity and one story can teach many lessons.
I’ve used this very scene to teach Intro to Anthropology students on the relativism of culture. A brilliant scene. I may have to add the Vulcan ship scenes from the recent Lower Decks episode.
I'm so glad that DS9 began featuring Garak more and more as the series went on. Such a great character. Could be my favorite. Pretty impressive considering he wasn't even one of the show's main characters.
@@rreagan007 Apparently, he was ment as a one off character, but they liked the actor's performance so much, and the chemistry between Bashir and Garrak, that they kept bringing him back until he became a feature of the show.
The fans liked him. The fans create rating systems that advertisers have access to. Advertisers pay more when ratings are better. Corporate members of the TV station say, "hey, that character is good for ratings, tell the studio to put him in more." The studio execs say, "Hey writers, come up with more Garak stuff, he's a hit!" And finally, the writers return to their dungeons with a new task.
As a forever DM I found that this show was a never ending gold mine of philosophy and theology. The campaign setting my friends and I constructed together over a dozen summers includes many, playable, "monster" races. Our Dark Elves are 100% just Cardassians with Garak as the key source. :)
I think the world is poorer for sanitizing children's stories and coddling children. I honestly miss the '80s and '90s, because kids shows could both be for children AND could treat children better than the "educational" drek that's out nowadays. Also... watch some of the classic '80s and '90s kids movies like Secret of Nimh, The Black Cauldron, Mask of the Phantasm, and more. They treated kids in the ''80s and '90s better than Hollywood treats adults now.
Lol I love how impressed he is with the boy at the start of the story. Lie to get attention and praise from your village? Heck yeah, that's the Cardassian way!
On the other hand, he also taught people to abandon the lie when it was discovered, and start a new one going. And occasionally, tell the truth. Just to keep people guessing.
Garak and his big brain. Tbh hes right, you could observe the story and resolve the moral to be to lie differently each time. Since he did achieve his goal of not being lonely. Alot of fables kinda have multiple choice answers.
Whats funny is Garak's point is disproved before he even says it, since he complains that nobody believes him even though he's telling the truth. Edit: since people wont stop bothering me about it: I'm not talking about what actually happens in the scene, I'm talking about what Garak says. When I say "he complains that nobody believes him even though he's telling the truth", that is what I am saying Garak says. I am not saying that he is telling the truth; I am saying that he *says* he's telling the truth. The entire point is that his own dialogue contradicts his point; the actual circumstances surrounding the scene are not relevant to that.
@@dipperjc Well if he interprets the lesson as something else which wouldn't solve the issue at hand, that still makes him wrong. If you applied his takeaway to the story, then the boy may have just lied about everything to the extent that they still wouldn't have believed him about the wolves, even if he never lied about that specific thing (or only lied about it once)
And yet he is far truer to himself than everyone else. Tell me when anyone else cared for the Cardassian lives lost before the Dominiom was forced back to Cardassia Prime other than Garak. Especially when Dax was checking up on him after he broke their codes. Dax: You will be saving lives by allowing us to attack your people with their guard down and ending the war Garak: OH? And what lives would those be? Every species not Cardassian? Dax: No you'll be saving Cardassians too Garak: Don't you dare lie to me! Don't you dare use the mass wartime casualties of my people to try and justify what is going to happen! I did all of this to save my people, but all I've done is open the door to let them destroy themselves! I'm nothing more than a traitor!
The fact that contemporary television cannot produce mainstream shows of such quality any longer is very telling of the sad (dumb) times in which we live.
This was me as a kid, I watched the veggie tales Larry boy special about fibbing And how lies can grow too large it destroy your whole way of life. And that taught me that if I'm going to lie I should do it in a way that doesn't require any evidence to believe.
I always had a hard time accepting that actor in _Star Trek_ because he played the murdering psychopath in the first _Dirty Harry_ film. Even under all that prosthetic makeup I can still see his crazy eyes..
@@happyslapsgiving5421 - Yeah, he was always great in the role. But because I saw _Dirty Harry_ on TV when I was like 10 and he was so good in it, I’ve never been able to not immediately picture him as that guy! _”My, that’s a big one…”_
Garak may have a point about the story. But still he is the one people now always thinks is lying. And so the doctors explanation of the story rings far more true. Sounding cool in a conversation is not always the same as being right.
Perhaps a better version is to never get caught telling a lie. But that seems like a rather trivial point, and something liars already know and aspire to.
Well considering he made a prolific career out of maximizing that skill set and even after being exiled was still a valuable asset to the highly moral federation due to that skill. I feel Garak might argue that being known as being duplicitous is a positive trait, even if the federation cant admit it.
The boy told one lie, about the wolf, and the villagers stop believing him about the wolf. Garak tells all lies, about everything, and no-one believes him about anything.
Nah, he was used properly and had his storylines where he was a main or influential character. Ultimately he was an ex operative in exile that still had certain knowledge and connections. To force him unnecessarily into the standard main cast would have done a disservice to the nuances of the character individually and the story of the show overall.
@@Konahagure That's a good way of looking at it. I guess I just like his character, and I consider him a main character. As I said, I think he's the best recurring character in Star Trek. Thanks for your opinion.
Ah, the art of lying. A good lie always has an element of truth in it. And the very best is the complete, full truth said in such a was as not to be believed.
D@mn, I remembered this different. I thought Garak said: " don't let children do adult work" or something like that. It seemed I remembered my own interpretation of 'the boy who cried wolf'.
I thought that the point of the story is don't put someone in charge of watching your valuables if you've already pre-committed to ignoring their alarm. You could save your money and get the same results by making no false show of security at all.
the point of a parable is that it is applicable to whatever situation is present. As there are many lessons to gain. On a side note I think I just figured out Tamarian while writing this lol. Sokath his eyes uncovered. The River Temarc in Winter!
Besides if the boy had a good faith belief that the villagers would help him, it seems like the family of the boy could sue the village for his death. They should have relieved him of duty if they weren't going to carry out their duty to the boy and flock.
"Well, it's the moral of the story, isn't it? If you lie too many times, you won't be believeved when you telling the truth." "No, Mr. Shepherd, with respect it is not the moral of the story. The moral of the story is that if you have grounds to believe there is a ferocious predator at large, don't appoint as your sole watchman a twelve year old child whom you have resolved to ignore."
Thank you! Perhaps one day. I confess that I'm terrible at editing and I'd take me forever to assemble a decent video with clips from the episode discussed. And, in a sense, it would be even nicer to have a panel discussion with a group of Trekkies. More clips (from DS9, S04) coming out soon!
@@FalconNest I could see a panel discussion being a cool way to tackle it. Specially if editings not your fortay. Looking forward to the future clips :)
Garak was just the best. He was a 007 of Star Trek. I would love to see him return in Picard for a small cameo as the head of new Obsidian Order or something like that. 👍👍👍
Even though I love Andrew Robinson acting as Garak, I pray that they do not sully one of my most beloved characters of all time in that dumpster-fire show! Such worthless garbage, which is totally undeserving of Star Trek's heritage.
If you want to see more Garak, watch the show "Alone Together", with Siddig and Robinson reprising their memorable roles: th-cam.com/video/M44QMKWMxuQ/w-d-xo.html
I think, canonically, Garak is now a political leader on Cardassia. In the novels and video game he is mentioned as being the “president” but that is a rough translation.
Shame there was never a proper series after this. set maybe a decade further to show what has become of star fleet, Bajor and Cardassia after the war. Would have liked to see how Garak rebuilt Cardassia with his new outlook after his life exiled from his home. And I mean a proper series btw, not Star Trek Discoery which but in costume only. Like me being a ghost by under a sheet.
@@Slavir_Nabru I've tried lower decks and I really can't get into it. To me that is more sudo-Trek more than anything. The original animated series did it better. Plus I am sick of the same/similar animation style everyone seems to use.
@@Gitimus01 I'm a huge fan of Garak, so I'd certainly love to see that future explored, but you need to come to terms with Discovery. The exact same complaints people have about Discovery are the same complaints they had about DS9 back in the day. What has changed? You've become on of the voices you ignored back then.
Whoever wrote that scene is brilliant.. Depending on your societal upbringing, you're likely to interpret fables differently and come to unintended conclusions..
but Garak isnt actually right The conversation they just had demonstrates that Nobody believes him anymore even if he doesnt tell the same lie again Just because he sounds clever doesnt mean he has a point; the fable's original point is basically proven true by the conversation they ahve before its even brought up.
I mean we're also supposing Cardassians to have the same morals and virtues as a Human. Which in itself is a bit near-sighted in its own suggestion. A story that speaks of hidden wisdom could say something entirely if told to different ears.
I’ve used this very scene to teach Intro to Anthropology students on the relativism of culture. A brilliant scene. I may have to add the Vulcan ship scenes from the recent Lower Decks episodes as well.
To be completely honest, it would be such a bizarre--if not inappropriate--juxtaposition to show students a clip from an excellent show such as DS9 and then a clip from a dumb cartoon like Lower Decks. Unless you aim to illustrate the low (no pun intended) quality of contemporary Trek.
@@FalconNest To be frank, you sound like my Professors from DECADES ago complaining about using visual media like, I dunno, TV shows, to illustrate what they considered “high concepts” instead of using literature or “pure texts”. Now here I am using Naruto, Avatar, the Animatrix, Cowboy Bebop or yes, even Lower Decks, in addition to the “pure literature” of old, to expound on this or that idea. Times change. I simply recognize the value of an educational moment wherever and whenever they arise. As such, the Vulcan scenes on that last episode are BRILLIANTLY illustrative of different cultural attitudes as regards emotional display. It’s fascinating really, because a friend and I were talking a few days ago about their culture shock moving from Seoul back to NYC and not being prepared for how differently people act in terms of public displays and outbursts. Very close parallels to that episode. In any event, as I said times change. Shakespeare is considered the epitome of cultured literature now when in his time they were mere plays performed in pubs, bars and other low brow establishments. Every one knows (of course!) REAL literature from that time was done by Marlowe. Can you quote any Marlowe titles? Can any average person? Dukes, Lower Decks may be animated, but it has more of the feel of Star Trek and certainly evidence of a deeper understanding of the lore of Star Trek than anything put out since 2009.
I think you are perhaps getting confused, or that you may be intentionally misrepresenting what I said to make a point. I myself use abundantly visual media (this channel should be sufficient evidence of it) but I wholeheartedly dislike Lower Decks as much as the rest of J.J. Abrams & Alex Kurtzman's version of Trek. I find Lower Decks even more insulting than the rest of their garbage because of what it pretends to be, not because it is a cartoon. Feel free to do whatever you wish with your teaching (frankly, I do not see the point of flaunting this on TH-cam, and I could not care less), but this is my channel and I am entitled to my opinion.
I wonder what would be Garak's view on Gobbels？You know “Repeat the lie 1,000 times and it becomes the truth” or some shit like that？Of course some people say gobbels didn't actually say that but what he did certainly were consistent with the line
"The boy was attending his flock of *[TERRAN FARM ANIMALS]* when he decided to prank the villagers and yell that a *[TERRAN PREDATOR ANIMAL]* had arrived."
Garak has got to be one of the best characters in all of Star Trek
Agreed! Definitely the most cunning character in Trek lore.
HARD AGREE. It's not even a question at this point. Right up there with Guinan.
He's the best character in fiction, period
Certainly one of the most interesting.
No character is more interesting. He is indeed the best character in all of trek.
"Clever lad. Charming story."
I love Garak
Good tea.. Nice house..
I love the fact that it's GARAK who calls out human child's stories for being too graphic.
Well, Cardassian's are very big on family.
The boy doesn't lie because he's lonely, he lies to prank the villagers.
Compared to German children stories the boy who cried wolf is very tame.
@@Lyoko012345 And I thought this IS a story of German origin.
But you are right. German fairytales can be uniquely cruel.
I mean... he'd be the expert XD
Cardassians: that children's story is a big graphic for kids..!
Also Cardassians: Here you go, Daughter. Here's my pet human. I've been torturing it for weeks.
Habituation, people become accustomed to situations. We had a neighbour who lived near us who used to bang the doors and windows, we simply got used to him. The Nazis went home after killing babies and had dinner with their families, the got used to violence. People can embrace great contradictions!
Garak is so sly. Turning the meaning thats meant to sway you into not lying instead into becoming better at it. Classic lol
I mean, lying is a skill like any other...
And if you want to be good at something you have to practice constantly.
I know other people who would view the story the same way as Garak!
I mean, that is definitely a lesson you can take from the story. Fables like these were told to teach children from the mistakes of others in a memorable way. There are many interpretations to this story- if others expect you to lie nobody will believe you, if you repeat lies you can be more easily caught in a lie, if you don't trust the person guarding your flock the flock may be eaten, and so on. All these interpretations have some validity and one story can teach many lessons.
I’ve used this very scene to teach Intro to Anthropology students on the relativism of culture. A brilliant scene. I may have to add the Vulcan ship scenes from the recent Lower Decks episode.
I'm so glad that DS9 began featuring Garak more and more as the series went on. Such a great character. Could be my favorite. Pretty impressive considering he wasn't even one of the show's main characters.
He was in the third episode of the first season. The writers must have had some vague plan for him.
@@rreagan007 Apparently, he was ment as a one off character, but they liked the actor's performance so much, and the chemistry between Bashir and Garrak, that they kept bringing him back until he became a feature of the show.
The fans liked him. The fans create rating systems that advertisers have access to. Advertisers pay more when ratings are better. Corporate members of the TV station say, "hey, that character is good for ratings, tell the studio to put him in more." The studio execs say, "Hey writers, come up with more Garak stuff, he's a hit!" And finally, the writers return to their dungeons with a new task.
Ex Cardassian space station, hes a Cardassian, why would he not be there. Its logical writing.
@@stevenkies802 Of course people liked his performance. It's Andrew Robinson aka Scorpio. They definitely knew they'd be bringing him back.
Never tell the same lie twice. One of the best lines in tv history.
I like how Garak seems genuinely intrigued to hear an old earth story.
Learning about a persons culture helps you learn how better to manipulate them
I love Garak’s other advice: Why tell the truth when a lie will do.
Also, shooting someone in the back is the safest way.
I think the moral is “don’t choose a boy to watch out for wolves if you have resolved to ignore him.”
Unless they decided to get out of the sheep business and sold their land to a casino developer.
The moral of the story is don't live near wolves
The moral is have more than one shepherd, and maybe a dog too.
As a forever DM I found that this show was a never ending gold mine of philosophy and theology. The campaign setting my friends and I constructed together over a dozen summers includes many, playable, "monster" races. Our Dark Elves are 100% just Cardassians with Garak as the key source. :)
That's such an excellent BTFO by Garak. Knowing when to lie and what lie to tell are invaluable.
Have to love Cardassian logic.
The writing for this show was incredible at times.
This is one of my favorite scenes from DS9. Andrew Robinson's portrayal of Garak is perfect.
"Well, that's a little graphic for children, wouldn't you say?" - Garek of all people spitting truth.
Actually I think he was mocking the federation.
I think the world is poorer for sanitizing children's stories and coddling children.
I honestly miss the '80s and '90s, because kids shows could both be for children AND could treat children better than the "educational" drek that's out nowadays.
Also... watch some of the classic '80s and '90s kids movies like Secret of Nimh, The Black Cauldron, Mask of the Phantasm, and more. They treated kids in the ''80s and '90s better than Hollywood treats adults now.
Lol I love how impressed he is with the boy at the start of the story. Lie to get attention and praise from your village? Heck yeah, that's the Cardassian way!
Walks out like a boss.
Rule of Acquisition #60. Keep your lies consistent.
That moment when Garak takes the same meaning from the story that you did when you were a child…
The absolute best character on a show full of great characters
our politicians could learn a few things from garek's views on honesty.
please no, they'd be unstoppable.
One thing that Garak taught me is that to "keep your lies consistent." Helped me out in life.
On the other hand, he also taught people to abandon the lie when it was discovered, and start a new one going.
And occasionally, tell the truth. Just to keep people guessing.
Garak and his big brain. Tbh hes right, you could observe the story and resolve the moral to be to lie differently each time. Since he did achieve his goal of not being lonely.
Alot of fables kinda have multiple choice answers.
Garak and Quark are my absolute favorite DS9 characters
Whats funny is Garak's point is disproved before he even says it, since he complains that nobody believes him even though he's telling the truth.
Edit: since people wont stop bothering me about it: I'm not talking about what actually happens in the scene, I'm talking about what Garak says. When I say "he complains that nobody believes him even though he's telling the truth", that is what I am saying Garak says. I am not saying that he is telling the truth; I am saying that he *says* he's telling the truth.
The entire point is that his own dialogue contradicts his point; the actual circumstances surrounding the scene are not relevant to that.
I'm struggling to remember the context of this episode, but I will fall back on that Garak IS always lying. Especially when he is telling the truth.
Doesn't really disprove Garak's point. His own troubles, and the takeaway from the boy who cried wolf, can be two disparate things. ;)
@@dipperjc Well if he interprets the lesson as something else which wouldn't solve the issue at hand, that still makes him wrong. If you applied his takeaway to the story, then the boy may have just lied about everything to the extent that they still wouldn't have believed him about the wolves, even if he never lied about that specific thing (or only lied about it once)
And yet he is far truer to himself than everyone else. Tell me when anyone else cared for the Cardassian lives lost before the Dominiom was forced back to Cardassia Prime other than Garak. Especially when Dax was checking up on him after he broke their codes.
Dax: You will be saving lives by allowing us to attack your people with their guard down and ending the war
Garak: OH? And what lives would those be? Every species not Cardassian?
Dax: No you'll be saving Cardassians too
Garak: Don't you dare lie to me! Don't you dare use the mass wartime casualties of my people to try and justify what is going to happen! I did all of this to save my people, but all I've done is open the door to let them destroy themselves! I'm nothing more than a traitor!
He was lying tho
You just know René Echevarria always had the supposed moral of The Boy who Cried Wolf stuck in his craw when he wrote that.
Gotta love Garak.
Could have come straight out of "Yes Minister"!
The fact that contemporary television cannot produce mainstream shows of such quality any longer is very telling of the sad (dumb) times in which we live.
This was me as a kid, I watched the veggie tales Larry boy special about fibbing And how lies can grow too large it destroy your whole way of life. And that taught me that if I'm going to lie I should do it in a way that doesn't require any evidence to believe.
A point that Garak, "A simple tailor", doesn't agree with
Quite possibly the greatest quote in all of Star Trek.
Brilliant observation by Garak.
I always had a hard time accepting that actor in _Star Trek_ because he played the murdering psychopath in the first _Dirty Harry_ film.
Even under all that prosthetic makeup I can still see his crazy eyes..
Robert O'Rielly might have some experience there too
The crazy eyes are what make him great... 😁
@@happyslapsgiving5421 - Yeah, he was always great in the role.
But because I saw _Dirty Harry_ on TV when I was like 10 and he was so good in it, I’ve never been able to not immediately picture him as that guy!
_”My, that’s a big one…”_
Garak may have a point about the story. But still he is the one people now always thinks is lying. And so the doctors explanation of the story rings far more true. Sounding cool in a conversation is not always the same as being right.
Perhaps a better version is to never get caught telling a lie. But that seems like a rather trivial point, and something liars already know and aspire to.
i don't think Garak really cares, he is exiled so why not have a little fun with these smug, moralizing humans
Well considering he made a prolific career out of maximizing that skill set and even after being exiled was still a valuable asset to the highly moral federation due to that skill. I feel Garak might argue that being known as being duplicitous is a positive trait, even if the federation cant admit it.
Being right and sounding right are two entirely different things, unfortunately
The boy told one lie, about the wolf, and the villagers stop believing him about the wolf. Garak tells all lies, about everything, and no-one believes him about anything.
Love it! Garak is my favourite character in DS9
Garak was the best recurring character in all Star Trek history. They should have made him a main character.
AS much as he was on the show, he probably was considered a main character by the actual main characters.
But you best pay heed to the “showbiz” advice: “Always leave them wanting more!”. :-)
@@briandeschene8424 I get what you're saying. However I think he could have been a main character, and they could have still left people wanting more.
Nah, he was used properly and had his storylines where he was a main or influential character. Ultimately he was an ex operative in exile that still had certain knowledge and connections. To force him unnecessarily into the standard main cast would have done a disservice to the nuances of the character individually and the story of the show overall.
@@Konahagure That's a good way of looking at it. I guess I just like his character, and I consider him a main character. As I said, I think he's the best recurring character in Star Trek. Thanks for your opinion.
Lol, oh that garak and his unending wit 😄
doctor thinks hes lecturing but Garak is like oh yes this again
Garak, tailor, gardener...but never, shepard.
That's actually good life advice!
My favourite Garak quote 🤣
Best parenting advice I've ever known. It's always worked for me because of Garak
I suspect the scene should have been allowed to play out for a few more seconds to catch the doctor's reaction to the comment
Andrew J. Robinson is so goddamn expressive in his makeup. Michael Westmore was a genius, Marc Aliamo was a stroke of luck to have based that race on.
"That's a little graphic for children "
oh poor sweet Garick.......*opens a book of the Grim Brothers fairy tales"
Ah, the art of lying. A good lie always has an element of truth in it. And the very best is the complete, full truth said in such a was as not to be believed.
D@mn, I remembered this different. I thought Garak said: " don't let children do adult work" or something like that. It seemed I remembered my own interpretation of 'the boy who cried wolf'.
Don't tug on Superman's cape, don't spit into the wind, don't pull the mask off that old lone ranger, and never tell the same lie twice.
Garak does have a point never tell same lie twice
I thought that the point of the story is don't put someone in charge of watching your valuables if you've already pre-committed to ignoring their alarm. You could save your money and get the same results by making no false show of security at all.
the point of a parable is that it is applicable to whatever situation is present. As there are many lessons to gain. On a side note I think I just figured out Tamarian while writing this lol. Sokath his eyes uncovered. The River Temarc in Winter!
Besides if the boy had a good faith belief that the villagers would help him, it seems like the family of the boy could sue the village for his death. They should have relieved him of duty if they weren't going to carry out their duty to the boy and flock.
Quark approves lol
"Well, it's the moral of the story, isn't it? If you lie too many times, you won't be believeved when you telling the truth."
"No, Mr. Shepherd, with respect it is not the moral of the story. The moral of the story is that if you have grounds to believe there is a ferocious predator at large, don't appoint as your sole watchman a twelve year old child whom you have resolved to ignore."
Pretty sure its the boys flock not the villages flock
Garak: What's a wolf, what's a sheep?
Good ol Garak
You would think that MSM news agencies would have been smart enough to know this.
I enjoyed the description, the context of the clip and your thoughts on it too. Would make for an interesting watch your thoughts on trek.
Thank you! Perhaps one day. I confess that I'm terrible at editing and I'd take me forever to assemble a decent video with clips from the episode discussed. And, in a sense, it would be even nicer to have a panel discussion with a group of Trekkies. More clips (from DS9, S04) coming out soon!
@@FalconNest I could see a panel discussion being a cool way to tackle it. Specially if editings not your fortay. Looking forward to the future clips :)
Then they won't believe you about anything.
I miss Garak, I would've much rather had seen a series about him, than Discovery.
The best liars convince everyone they're the worst liars
Classic and iconic.
Garak was just the best. He was a 007 of Star Trek. I would love to see him return in Picard for a small cameo as the head of new Obsidian Order or something like that. 👍👍👍
Even though I love Andrew Robinson acting as Garak, I pray that they do not sully one of my most beloved characters of all time in that dumpster-fire show! Such worthless garbage, which is totally undeserving of Star Trek's heritage.
If you want to see more Garak, watch the show "Alone Together", with Siddig and Robinson reprising their memorable roles: th-cam.com/video/M44QMKWMxuQ/w-d-xo.html
@@FalconNest Absolutely!
I think, canonically, Garak is now a political leader on Cardassia. In the novels and video game he is mentioned as being the “president” but that is a rough translation.
My moto is; tell the truth only when it's in your best interest, if not why tell the truth when a lie will suffice.
They are so awesome together. :-)
Shame there was never a proper series after this. set maybe a decade further to show what has become of star fleet, Bajor and Cardassia after the war. Would have liked to see how Garak rebuilt Cardassia with his new outlook after his life exiled from his home.
And I mean a proper series btw, not Star Trek Discoery which but in costume only. Like me being a ghost by under a sheet.
There are novels with a long continuity and new characters, if you're into that sort of thing. They're way better than I thought they would be.
@@justas538 I knew of the novels. I forgot they exist because they are not cannon, Still worth giving a try.
Lower Decks is really doing 90s Trek justice. It's totally off tone from Discovery and Picard.
@@Slavir_Nabru I've tried lower decks and I really can't get into it. To me that is more sudo-Trek more than anything. The original animated series did it better. Plus I am sick of the same/similar animation style everyone seems to use.
@@Gitimus01 I'm a huge fan of Garak, so I'd certainly love to see that future explored, but you need to come to terms with Discovery. The exact same complaints people have about Discovery are the same complaints they had about DS9 back in the day. What has changed? You've become on of the voices you ignored back then.
Two equally good meanings tbh.
I wish the title didn’t give away the punch line
from their own point of view, both Garak and Julian were right in this conversation
Whoever wrote that scene is brilliant..
Depending on your societal upbringing, you're likely to interpret fables differently and come to unintended conclusions..
The truth is surrounded by a body of lies
GARAK has always been my favorite character on DS9.
Garak always my favorite.
"I'm not finished."
LOL Garak is the bomb.
U.S. Acres: Sometimes, even liars tell the truth
Now I'm curious about what stories Cardassians tell their children
If you don't tell the same lie twice that'd be inconsistent and you'll eventually be found out.
You should only lie when you really need to.
Never tell a lie.
Sooo... Lies are like magic tricks?*
Never do the same trick twice?
(*or the other way around?... but we already know that, at least at some level)
Well....so much for the doctors enhanced intelligence.
but Garak isnt actually right
The conversation they just had demonstrates that
Nobody believes him anymore even if he doesnt tell the same lie again
Just because he sounds clever doesnt mean he has a point; the fable's original point is basically proven true by the conversation they ahve before its even brought up.
If anything, this scene shows that Bashir is the smarter of the two, while Garak is merely the more stubborn.
He told the same lie all the time........ that he was an ordinary tailor ~_^
Cant argue with that.
That sly look on Garak's face....... He really stole the show sometimes. One of my favorite characters.
I love Garak.
He does have a point.
This always makes me laugh.
I mean we're also supposing Cardassians to have the same morals and virtues as a Human. Which in itself is a bit near-sighted in its own suggestion. A story that speaks of hidden wisdom could say something entirely if told to different ears.
1:24 mic drop.
I mean it's pretty accurate
Brilliant
Absolutely
I don't talk to anyone, period. That means there's no chance for me to lie to anyone. I speak facts always anyways so...
I’ve used this very scene to teach Intro to Anthropology students on the relativism of culture. A brilliant scene. I may have to add the Vulcan ship scenes from the recent Lower Decks episodes as well.
That's quite enough of your outbursts, young sir/lady.
To be completely honest, it would be such a bizarre--if not inappropriate--juxtaposition to show students a clip from an excellent show such as DS9 and then a clip from a dumb cartoon like Lower Decks. Unless you aim to illustrate the low (no pun intended) quality of contemporary Trek.
@@FalconNest To be frank, you sound like my Professors from DECADES ago complaining about using visual media like, I dunno, TV shows, to illustrate what they considered “high concepts” instead of using literature or “pure texts”. Now here I am using Naruto, Avatar, the Animatrix, Cowboy Bebop or yes, even Lower Decks, in addition to the “pure literature” of old, to expound on this or that idea. Times change. I simply recognize the value of an educational moment wherever and whenever they arise. As such, the Vulcan scenes on that last episode are BRILLIANTLY illustrative of different cultural attitudes as regards emotional display.
It’s fascinating really, because a friend and I were talking a few days ago about their culture shock moving from Seoul back to NYC and not being prepared for how differently people act in terms of public displays and outbursts. Very close parallels to that episode. In any event, as I said times change. Shakespeare is considered the epitome of cultured literature now when in his time they were mere plays performed in pubs, bars and other low brow establishments. Every one knows (of course!) REAL literature from that time was done by Marlowe. Can you quote any Marlowe titles? Can any average person?
Dukes, Lower Decks may be animated, but it has more of the feel of Star Trek and certainly evidence of a deeper understanding of the lore of Star Trek than anything put out since 2009.
I think you are perhaps getting confused, or that you may be intentionally misrepresenting what I said to make a point. I myself use abundantly visual media (this channel should be sufficient evidence of it) but I wholeheartedly dislike Lower Decks as much as the rest of J.J. Abrams & Alex Kurtzman's version of Trek. I find Lower Decks even more insulting than the rest of their garbage because of what it pretends to be, not because it is a cartoon. Feel free to do whatever you wish with your teaching (frankly, I do not see the point of flaunting this on TH-cam, and I could not care less), but this is my channel and I am entitled to my opinion.
lol what's the first?
He wasn't wrong.
I wonder what would be Garak's view on Gobbels？You know “Repeat the lie 1,000 times and it becomes the truth” or some shit like that？Of course some people say gobbels didn't actually say that but what he did certainly were consistent with the line
I thought it was more tell a lie big enough and it'll be impossible not to believe it.
I never could work out how a translator would deal with species specific words.
Does it translate wolf and sheep into alien animals?
"The boy was attending his flock of *[TERRAN FARM ANIMALS]* when he decided to prank the villagers and yell that a *[TERRAN PREDATOR ANIMAL]* had arrived."
Clap........ Clap......... Clap........
Nice
And this is why you should like Garek. Now you know that he might not lie to you about the same thing more than once.
In fact, he may even tell you a very important truth...but you'll never know *when*.
Garak: 1
Julian: None
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