I’m so glad my algorithm put your content in my home page! I positively love your take on pop culture! I’ve caught myself watching your videos multiple times. Exceptional stuff! Keep creating!
Before Star Wars, all I wanted to be was a Paleontologist. I was so obsessed about dinosaurs, people who knew me would go out of their way to avoid talking to me. I pity them these days. There's nothing worse than a 10 year high on the Cretaceous Period or Permian Explosion, except for an 11 year trying to figure out how he can get legal custody of his body so he could sell his extra kidney in order to buy Star Wars figures and cards. Yes, I was THAT kid. My grades went from B's with a few C's, to straight A's all the way through high school, in order to make it into the best college for a career at Nasa, to design spaceships. After the Challenger blew up, I was told by my counselors in college to change majors, since 40,000 Aerospace engineers who had worked on the program were currently working at McDonalds, flipping burgers. I decided the next best career path was film. So off to film school I went. I ran out of cash before I could finish my MFA in Film, but I have still loved, and been inspired by, so many films in my last 56 years alive, starting from the early talkies in the 1930s until around 2000 when quality started to fizzle out. In 1993, I watched every episode of Star Trek: TNG several times, as I had an opportunity to submit some teleplays to Paramount for the show. While in Hollywood at Paramount, I talked about my hopes to one day write for a Star Trek spin-off show about a ship from the fleet that gets stuck on the other side of the Universe. I didn't get chosen as a staff writer, but I felt a sigh of relief when I saw Voyager was announced; even with the holographic crew member I had blabbered on about. What has happened to Picard these days is a tragedy. Alex Kurtzman should be shoved inside the Burning Man effigy just before it's ignited, in order to atone for his crimes against humanity. In the mid-2000s, things started to change. I could tell from 20 years of writing stories and reading books on character and story design, that the destruction of the hero was the new paradigm. Even early on, before wokeness took hold, you could feel the tide turn against while males in general. Maybe it was the Obama years that cemented the idea that white guys were inherently evil, but afterwards, only women and minorities were the heroes in films. That was about the time I stopped going to the theater, and only watched Korean television. All the K-Drama stories were awesome, the actors were amazing, and there wasn't a hint of wokeness anywhere to be found. Korean television saved my mind, since American media has become a steady stream of drivle about how whites in general, and white men specifically, could do no right. Thankfully, along the way I learned that America was built by unskilled, black tribesmen who could neither read nor write English, yet were able to interpret complex building designs and erect massive structures from them. Like magic. That's when I realized white men had stolen all the African people's glory, and that blacks were to thank for literally every invention and innovation in America for the last 1600 years. But I digress. The last 10 years or so has been a retcon of EVERY MAJOR white, male character in film into a sniveling, evil, pathetic low life, who can't tie his shoe or make a dollar unless he's stealing it from some poor, genius minority he's had his bootheel on. It's so obvious and pathetic that the left has chosen the path of communism and the destruction of the America I've always loved. They obviously learned that only way to destroy America was not militarily, but through destroying its heroes and culture. That IS THE REASON we are seeing every iconic hero from Indiana Jones to Luke Skywalker be systematically destroyed. In order to gut the pride of American men. Joy Reid and Joy Behar (The Two Joys of the American Left) have made to a career out of gutting the pride of America. Where were they when Cosby and Weinstein were raping their way to the top of the media world? I guess they missed the signs. I have no hope for Hollywood anymore, as they have long since sold their sold to Satan. There will be no redemption there. The future of film will lie in new studios and in alternatives to Hollywood. I'm sure it will happen, but in the meantime, the world of film, and hope itself, is truly dead.
I did not want to like your comment, until I saw what you said about Joy Reid and Joy Behar. Shame on them for not finding a better way to gut the pride of America than to tear down fictional male heroes who did not deserve it!
"I tend to sway away from his more conservative proclivities" my guy, this all started happening when people started to ignore conservative proclivities - we have good reasons to believe what we believe
That is why I absolutely despise Star Trek: Discovery/Picard, The Rings of Power and Velma. They pee and dump on the graves of Gene Roddenberry, J.R.R. Tolkien, and Joe Ruby/Ken Spears by being the opposite of entertainment, and write for an audience that does not exist unless they are the audience that hates those franchises and popular IPs. Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and Velma were made for the nerds, Discovery, Picard, The Rings of Power and Velma were made for the bullies.
I love a lot of the reviews done by the Drinker and a few others of that group, but as someone who doesn't lean right politically, sometimes that does get tiresome. Thank you for, in the span on one video saying exactly what I've been trying to for years. Hating what has been done to our legacy characters is NOT a political issue. It's one of the few things that can unite folks from all over. You just got another subscriber by the way.
Thanks, man. You sound a lot like me! I like those guys a lot, but there's always a liiiitle bit of a libertarian streak that doesn't quite gell. My bet is there's thousands just like us who can build up a community that tires to skirt the politics on the way to getting to the heart of things. Thanks for the sub.
I feel this a lot. A bunch of takes out there lose me In the weeds. I think the major problems are entertainment by committee, even things written by good faith creatives has all of the heart sucked out by executive meddling. The content factory is so wildly out of touch, the end products please no one. I'd rather watch someone I disagree with here and there tear into trash remakes than 2 seconds of diddnee apologia any day.
I’m conservative, and completely agree. Things like Star Wars and the MCU used to unite us all. Now it’s the exact opposite. Meanwhile we have to watch the heroes, characters, and stories we’ve all loved for decades be destroyed. And criticizing those sort of things often means getting yelled at or called horrible names. But nowadays people can’t discuss and debate movies/shows/games without bringing politics or even personal attacks into everything. Criticism of a film is not political, as u said. Nor does it warrant attacking fellow fans just bc they expressed a dislike for things such as the treatment of legacy characters. All this insanity from Hollywood has led to them not only ruining characters+stories, but fandoms themselves. It’s so sad. Honestly I love that ppl like us who are on opposite ends of the political spectrum exist within the same fandoms. Like I said, this stuff used to bring us all together. Sharing ur love for a certain property with other ppl is one of the best parts of being a fan. As is debating the movies themselves.
Incredible how you display the very same opinions I have, only you present them with greater clarity and eloquence than I can. I love your brief, sharp essays on pop-culture immensely. Thanks for sharing.
It is not so much what is happening just to the characters. The wave of woke tries to systematically destroy everything and anything that it perceives as not woke enough - which is pretty much everything. Star Trek was inclusive from the moment Gene Roddenbery invented it - Uhura, Chekov, Spock, Kirk, Scotty... it was an idealized future where everyone worked together to better themselves and humanity. Yet it was not woke enough for "them", and Picard and Discovery tried to fix what wasn't broken. Star Wars was ruined too ... then Wheel of Time... Game of Thrones before that... and soon Lord of the Rings.
@@chasehedges6775 We still have Andor, so...I can only hope Season 2 will keep up the good work from Season 1. Do you think Season 1 of Andor was better than Season 1 of The Mandalorian?
I rewatched Raiders of the Lost Ark last night for the first time in a while and I thought “jeez, people used to actually make fun entertaining movies with likable characters”.
I generally like art to be good and well made with craft and patience. I also enjoy art that was ill conceived and bad if it is interesting or funny in an ironic way. The worst enemy of art, in all its forms, is a lack of care for the material. Beyond all the political and messaging reasons and the money and whatever else surrounds a project, the only thing that really matters is that it’s interesting. If all the many belated remakes and sequels of all these franchises were judged purely on that metric, only a few would even be worth thinking about. That should be the primary concern for creators right now. Quality over quantity… so we don’t have to sift through 20 perfectly average movies to find one we really like.
I mean, that's why I never saw any of the new Star Trek's, or any of the new Star Wars. Despite loving both growing up, I completely ghosted the new movies and shows and wanted absolutely nothing to do with them. I foresaw the issue to come, and am happier not having them in my life.
Great video, but also it made me realize that I'd never actually seen the Drinker in person before! He's quite handsome, as I'm sure you are as well. Anyway, keep the spot-on critiques up, lads.
As an avid (and some would say, unhealthily obsessed) Dune fan, I can only guess that Paul Atreides will eventually become ground down by the existential ennui of his own superiority. He'll probably just put on a dark cloak and wander off into desert to sulk or something. Then, they'll probably just go on to turn his son into some sort of deformed mutant phallic symbol. And then, almost every Dune faction will be taken over by women. *shakes head*
@Echo video idea for you: how they ruin same-race hetero relationships consistently Ironman-gwinith? ironman dies Hulk-widow? Widow dies Jane-Thor? Jane dies Vision-witch? vision dies Strange-whatername? she leaves him because of blip and it was never meant to be "the widespread destruction of the happily ever after" Just notice how in RoP the only relationship that doesn't give virtue points is gonna end up with the man being literally sauron
They will, once the box office failures of Terminator: Dark Fate and Ant-Man: Quantumania, the cancellations of Batgirl and Star Trek: Discovery, and all of the hate for Velma proves them wrong about one vital fact: You make a lot more money with simple entertainment, than you make with complex exitainment.
Personally, I hate the politically driven writing of today not because of the politics themself, but because the hack writers sacrificed every other aspect for it.
Yeah, what is the point of sacrificing your entertainment value, your budget, and the audience who funds your box office profits, just because you want to constantly remind your audience that you do not want the highest jobs in entertainment and award-winners to be dominated by white men anymore?
I really do wonder how different this discussion would be if our current CEO on this site wasn't in charge. Ironically, she plays a part in this topic. Anyway, nothing irks me more than when ppl call this problem a "trend" or the director's/writer's "political beliefs" being inserted in media. This isn't some trend. This is a culture war. Do you understand what that really means? It means yes, this is an actual war to either protect or lose the dominant culture we live in. This woke shit confuses most ppl bc they don't understand what's going on and here's the kicker - if they were to hear the truth and a thorough explanation, they wouldn't want to understand. They don't really want the truth when they hear it. They're content on thinking happy, uncontroversial things. Like children and also like children they need their fairytales intact. Make no mistake, this is an agenda to change the dominant culture and those who really are behind this decided everything about the dominant culture needs to go. Did you notice anything most legacy characters have in common? Look really hard. By the way, whixh culture is the dominant one we live in? If anyone out there really wants to know the actual truth and solve the mystery, you need to not be squeamish with your research. If you are then go no further bc the truth isn't something said in polite conversation or civilized society. That's how the truth is covered up and how the lies stay protected and how the ppl stay stupid.
I didnt REALLY care that Luke and Han Leia or any of the others got rubbished, because I wasnt invested. BUT that doesnt mean it needed to be done. It didnt. I guess we are just lucky that Tolkein doesnt actually ahve any 4th age works otherwise Galadriel, Aragorn, Frodo, Gandalf and Elrond would suffer the same treatment and that would suck... instead some of their younger selves get that treatment instead... ugh, boring and unoriginal.
They are miserable people who can't stand that people have a love of these characters who don't affirm their world view/ideology and often refute it.Therefore they destroy the beloved characters instead of creating their own characters to contrast them or represent their own views.
How was Terminal List MAGA-ish? Near as I can tell, it would have received just as good reviews if it came out twenty years ago, aside from the fact that it would have been in a rather more swamped market at that time full of similar ideas. It spoke to a bygone zeitgeist, which is why people liked it, in fact it eschewed contemporary political messaging to tell a warrior story. the main villains were amoral officers and stolen valour wannabes.
When a movie or a television show gets a studio-mandated sequel to legacy characters that bring them back just to ruin them like this, I only have one pair of words to describe the purpose of such a failure of a cash-grab that hates the idea of fan service: *Negative Nostalgia.* Bob Gale and Robert Zemeckis were wholly prepared for this when they had enough power as filmmakers with proven quality creative control, to negotiate with Universal and protect the copyright rights of Back to the Future from any uncreative who could pull the same rubbish as The Last Jedi and Star Trek: Discovery. You could could even say as a joke...that they saw this coming into the *future!* XD April 26, 2023, 12:14am
Another thing that kills me are how some characters are treated when the writer is a fan of the property. I tolerate Jurassic World, if anything I just like seeing dinosaurs doing dinosaur things. In the case of JW Dominion, the legacy characters are caricatures of themselves. Ellie is turned into an independent girl boss, Ian is comic relief who has monologues about chaos, and Alan is doesn’t understand technology and is there to end up with Ellie. It’s basically just taking the character traits and dialing them up to 11 to get the nostalgia response from the audience. I went through a phase of not liking JP3, it’s still not my favorite of the original trilogy but I do like Alan’s little journey of over coming his PTSD. At the beginning of the movie he is haunted by his ties to Jurassic Park in both his dreams (I would have handled that scene differently but I get the point) and in his work. I like the chat he had with Eric about astronomers and astronaut. It’s not on the same level as JP but it’s still got me thinking which if a movie can get me thinking I consider it a win. Dominion on the other hand… doesn’t really use it’s cast to evolve them or ask questions… they just do their thing and the plot just moves them around as needed. The dialogue with the legacy characters feels more like a fanfic then actual dialogue. Anyway, all this to say, even people who are fans of the material may not actually understand it to write it. I guess one big reason why The Lost World and JP3 still at least feel like JP was because Michael Critchon was still involved at least as an advisor in the writing room.
Old Legacy Characters don't deserve what Hollywood is doing to them because of Woke Culture. I grew up with these characters. Just like many other people did. If they want my money stop doing this.
The trick is not to care (hard to do in practice, of course). I liken the new zeitgeist of popular media as it being possessed by an ethereal demon that senses what stories and characters that are beloved by filthy anglo straight men and then aims to destroy them once detected. If people just learnt the lesson from the Force Awakens and realise that Disney et al have no clue what they are doing, and just ignore the content they produce as akin to lollies/candy from a creepy pedo - things wouldn't likely be so bad. The more I see the rant videos from nerds on youtube getting angry the more that creature thrives. It doesn't care about money - or rather how much money the big media companies lose - all this demon cares about is hurting and angering the people that seem to care about it. The answer is to just not care. There are more pressing problems to get worried about. I also like your position in only stating a 90% like/support for the youtubers you mention. I too feel that the often rational and sensible takes on a lot of these things are then quickly shepherded into right-wing or left-wing positions on other topics that I dont support. All too often I will agree with one of those people ranting against the hollywood thought police but then next thing they trying to sway my support for some conservative politician or businessman - and then I am out. The Critical Drinker is certainly one of them. I am liking your content and hope you keep it up.
Question not related to this video: If I remember correctly you uploaded an Video called something like "goodbye disney star wars". I can not find this anymore. Did you put it down or was it on another channel?
@@adampkalb No the deleted Video was a Music Video making fun about Disney Star Wars (was really good). The Video you reference it's just a Star Wars Video, which I also watch.
Of course creators want to put their own personal politics into the things they create. Creators have done that since the dawn of time. It's the very reason for the act of creation, consciously realised or not! But... CREATE SOMETHING NEW, FOR GOD'S SAKE. Creators should come up with THEIR OWN creation and put THEIR OWN politics into THAT, and let it stand or fall on its own terms. Not hijack SOMEONE ELSE'S creation, with potentially different political, moral, and ethical messages, for clout!
If you do this to characters i love then i will stop watching the franchise. It is rather depressing to see the destruction of characters i love. Star Wars was a horrible loss. I also gave up on Terminator and Star Trek because i heard bad things and did not want to see the destruction.
What makes Terminator: Dark Fate and Seven of Nine's presence in some episodes of Star Trek: Picard hit even harder than usual is that they proved white female heroes are not safe from the same tragedies that white male heroes typically suffer from uncreative writers who want more diverse heroes with no imagination or skill or personal experience to create their own original content like the filmmakers of Everything Everywhere All At Once. April 26, 2023, 12:10am
I can't believe you were onto something and then still had to make a snarky comment about testosterone driven material. I haven't seen testosterone driven material in over 5 years. Where is it? Please show me I haven't had a strong male lead in so long I'm already starting to paint my toenails
What audience are they appealing to? The audience for these legacy IPs that does not exist, aka everybody who hates them and want something to use to bully their nerds, or the far left who sees diversity and sheer representation to push a message as an excuse to justify bad writing? April 25, 2023, 11:52pm
Let me first say, I agree with you here, in broad sense. With that in mind, there are two major points you should consider. 1. "Writers are inserting their opinions into modern media." I think there's a systemic bait & switch happening in modern media with regard to this point. At face value the above statement appears correct, but let's take moment to dig deeper. Disney is surely one of the biggest offenders of this trend, right? Where does Disney actually stand, as a company. It's certainly not "woke." Disney as a company is very conservative, cancelling shows like Owl House (etc) because of their inclusivity. And to be sure, Disney is quick to claim any positive reaction to said inclusivity, but at the end of the day, Disney is beholden to its investors and the largely conservative forces that drive modern society. In essence, Disney wants to appear like the "rebels" by paying superficial lip-service to 'wokeness', but in reality they are firmly entrenched as the empire. So, are writers injecting their personal politics into media, or are writers simply working in servitude of a opportunistic and predatory institution that forces them to push whatever is the current hot-topic button in modern pop culture? 2. "Media nowadays is too political." This might be a bit of a fallacy. I think you could make the argument that media has always been political. What's really changed is social mores. Old media does not appear political because society has moved past the politics of previous decades. The politics of decades past seem insignificant or inconsequential to us now. We are effectively blind to any topic that was considered questionable of disruptive 30+ years ago. The presence of politics across different eras is of course complex and not easily categorized for simplicity, so I'm speaking in broad strokes here. No doubt you can find examples that run counter to my argument, but the overall trends are worth examining. I hope you get a chance absorb and examine the observations I've made here, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts.
You Echo my thoughts on those two men, but what really bothers me is that they DO say to leave politics out of our favorite media franchises - YET that is ALL they talk about when there are AMERICAN ELECTIONS! Either walk the walk, or all you are is just talk - This is my message to you all.
Middle age men complaining about childhood media is a career and that is sad. Cheap nostalgia fills seats and in a risk adverse industry it is enough. Add in outrage is great marketing and you get current blockbusters.
This isnt that new. Lotr was good but we pretend the hobbit didnt happen. Same thing with the matrix and the sequels. Terminator has been trash after #2. Marvel has been trash after phase 3. Starwars has been trash since the original trilogy. New era. Same problems.
True but the decline is down a few extra notches and is more widespread. I'm not a lover of the SW prequels but there is substance enough there to be properly expressed in a few rewrites. The Disney Wars moves on the other hand are unsalvageable. Just pure, lifeless product.
Agree with you on the Drinker. 90% of his critiques are really accurate but he has this maga blind spot which I guess comes from hanging with a lot of the American anti-woke crowd. It's odd since the Republicans make the Tories look nice and having a Scot support a Ultra-Tory is just wierd. I really love the Red Letter media crew, just the vids are a bit long
Movies used to be entertaining.
Movies now feel like products
Or feature-length political ad campaigns telling you things in 100 minutes that would have been much cheaper and easier to tell in just 10 minutes.
The worst part is that People eat it up too. There is community that thing the videos that echo mentioned are crazy
Movies were always products, look at how they were produced during the days of the studio systems,
Movies were always productions
Correction: Products that were ENTERTAINING and had good storytelling
The last ten years, where it went from "Enjoy the movie?" to "Enjoy the lecture?".
Never stop making videos you are awesome
You're the awesome one, dude!
I’m so glad my algorithm put your content in my home page! I positively love your take on pop culture! I’ve caught myself watching your videos multiple times. Exceptional stuff! Keep creating!
Thanks so much, man.
Before Star Wars, all I wanted to be was a Paleontologist. I was so obsessed about dinosaurs, people who knew me would go out of their way to avoid talking to me. I pity them these days. There's nothing worse than a 10 year high on the Cretaceous Period or Permian Explosion, except for an 11 year trying to figure out how he can get legal custody of his body so he could sell his extra kidney in order to buy Star Wars figures and cards. Yes, I was THAT kid. My grades went from B's with a few C's, to straight A's all the way through high school, in order to make it into the best college for a career at Nasa, to design spaceships. After the Challenger blew up, I was told by my counselors in college to change majors, since 40,000 Aerospace engineers who had worked on the program were currently working at McDonalds, flipping burgers. I decided the next best career path was film. So off to film school I went. I ran out of cash before I could finish my MFA in Film, but I have still loved, and been inspired by, so many films in my last 56 years alive, starting from the early talkies in the 1930s until around 2000 when quality started to fizzle out. In 1993, I watched every episode of Star Trek: TNG several times, as I had an opportunity to submit some teleplays to Paramount for the show. While in Hollywood at Paramount, I talked about my hopes to one day write for a Star Trek spin-off show about a ship from the fleet that gets stuck on the other side of the Universe. I didn't get chosen as a staff writer, but I felt a sigh of relief when I saw Voyager was announced; even with the holographic crew member I had blabbered on about. What has happened to Picard these days is a tragedy. Alex Kurtzman should be shoved inside the Burning Man effigy just before it's ignited, in order to atone for his crimes against humanity.
In the mid-2000s, things started to change. I could tell from 20 years of writing stories and reading books on character and story design, that the destruction of the hero was the new paradigm. Even early on, before wokeness took hold, you could feel the tide turn against while males in general. Maybe it was the Obama years that cemented the idea that white guys were inherently evil, but afterwards, only women and minorities were the heroes in films. That was about the time I stopped going to the theater, and only watched Korean television. All the K-Drama stories were awesome, the actors were amazing, and there wasn't a hint of wokeness anywhere to be found. Korean television saved my mind, since American media has become a steady stream of drivle about how whites in general, and white men specifically, could do no right. Thankfully, along the way I learned that America was built by unskilled, black tribesmen who could neither read nor write English, yet were able to interpret complex building designs and erect massive structures from them. Like magic. That's when I realized white men had stolen all the African people's glory, and that blacks were to thank for literally every invention and innovation in America for the last 1600 years. But I digress.
The last 10 years or so has been a retcon of EVERY MAJOR white, male character in film into a sniveling, evil, pathetic low life, who can't tie his shoe or make a dollar unless he's stealing it from some poor, genius minority he's had his bootheel on. It's so obvious and pathetic that the left has chosen the path of communism and the destruction of the America I've always loved. They obviously learned that only way to destroy America was not militarily, but through destroying its heroes and culture. That IS THE REASON we are seeing every iconic hero from Indiana Jones to Luke Skywalker be systematically destroyed. In order to gut the pride of American men. Joy Reid and Joy Behar (The Two Joys of the American Left) have made to a career out of gutting the pride of America. Where were they when Cosby and Weinstein were raping their way to the top of the media world? I guess they missed the signs. I have no hope for Hollywood anymore, as they have long since sold their sold to Satan. There will be no redemption there. The future of film will lie in new studios and in alternatives to Hollywood. I'm sure it will happen, but in the meantime, the world of film, and hope itself, is truly dead.
I did not want to like your comment, until I saw what you said about Joy Reid and Joy Behar. Shame on them for not finding a better way to gut the pride of America than to tear down fictional male heroes who did not deserve it!
Well said.
"I tend to sway away from his more conservative proclivities"
my guy, this all started happening when people started to ignore conservative proclivities - we have good reasons to believe what we believe
DO NOT forget about peeps
outside the horseshoe!😃😇😜
You've earned another subscriber, good sir. Keep up the good work.
The treatments our legacy heroes got pretty much shows what their creators or legal inheritors through of their audiences.
That is why I absolutely despise Star Trek: Discovery/Picard, The Rings of Power and Velma. They pee and dump on the graves of Gene Roddenberry, J.R.R. Tolkien, and Joe Ruby/Ken Spears by being the opposite of entertainment, and write for an audience that does not exist unless they are the audience that hates those franchises and popular IPs. Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and Velma were made for the nerds, Discovery, Picard, The Rings of Power and Velma were made for the bullies.
I love a lot of the reviews done by the Drinker and a few others of that group, but as someone who doesn't lean right politically, sometimes that does get tiresome. Thank you for, in the span on one video saying exactly what I've been trying to for years. Hating what has been done to our legacy characters is NOT a political issue. It's one of the few things that can unite folks from all over. You just got another subscriber by the way.
Thanks, man. You sound a lot like me! I like those guys a lot, but there's always a liiiitle bit of a libertarian streak that doesn't quite gell. My bet is there's thousands just like us who can build up a community that tires to skirt the politics on the way to getting to the heart of things. Thanks for the sub.
I feel this a lot. A bunch of takes out there lose me In the weeds. I think the major problems are entertainment by committee, even things written by good faith creatives has all of the heart sucked out by executive meddling. The content factory is so wildly out of touch, the end products please no one.
I'd rather watch someone I disagree with here and there tear into trash remakes than 2 seconds of diddnee apologia any day.
I’m conservative, and completely agree. Things like Star Wars and the MCU used to unite us all. Now it’s the exact opposite. Meanwhile we have to watch the heroes, characters, and stories we’ve all loved for decades be destroyed.
And criticizing those sort of things often means getting yelled at or called horrible names. But nowadays people can’t discuss and debate movies/shows/games without bringing politics or even personal attacks into everything. Criticism of a film is not political, as u said. Nor does it warrant attacking fellow fans just bc they expressed a dislike for things such as the treatment of legacy characters.
All this insanity from Hollywood has led to them not only ruining characters+stories, but fandoms themselves. It’s so sad. Honestly I love that ppl like us who are on opposite ends of the political spectrum exist within the same fandoms. Like I said, this stuff used to bring us all together. Sharing ur love for a certain property with other ppl is one of the best parts of being a fan. As is debating the movies themselves.
Even the sensible articulate liberal sees eye-to-eye with the sensible articulate conservative on an issue, you know that the situation is fucked.
Incredible how you display the very same opinions I have, only you present them with greater clarity and eloquence than I can. I love your brief, sharp essays on pop-culture immensely. Thanks for sharing.
It is not so much what is happening just to the characters. The wave of woke tries to systematically destroy everything and anything that it perceives as not woke enough - which is pretty much everything. Star Trek was inclusive from the moment Gene Roddenbery invented it - Uhura, Chekov, Spock, Kirk, Scotty... it was an idealized future where everyone worked together to better themselves and humanity. Yet it was not woke enough for "them", and Picard and Discovery tried to fix what wasn't broken. Star Wars was ruined too ... then Wheel of Time... Game of Thrones before that... and soon Lord of the Rings.
Star Wars was ruined too.
The Mandalorian was awesome but it could only keep it safe for so long
@@chasehedges6775 We still have Andor, so...I can only hope Season 2 will keep up the good work from Season 1. Do you think Season 1 of Andor was better than Season 1 of The Mandalorian?
I rewatched Raiders of the Lost Ark last night for the first time in a while and I thought “jeez, people used to actually make fun entertaining movies with likable characters”.
I generally like art to be good and well made with craft and patience. I also enjoy art that was ill conceived and bad if it is interesting or funny in an ironic way. The worst enemy of art, in all its forms, is a lack of care for the material. Beyond all the political and messaging reasons and the money and whatever else surrounds a project, the only thing that really matters is that it’s interesting. If all the many belated remakes and sequels of all these franchises were judged purely on that metric, only a few would even be worth thinking about. That should be the primary concern for creators right now. Quality over quantity… so we don’t have to sift through 20 perfectly average movies to find one we really like.
I mean, that's why I never saw any of the new Star Trek's, or any of the new Star Wars.
Despite loving both growing up, I completely ghosted the new movies and shows and wanted absolutely nothing to do with them. I foresaw the issue to come, and am happier not having them in my life.
I found you after your appearance on drinker after hours. Thanks for adding to the chorus. Your voice is much appreciated.
Great video, but also it made me realize that I'd never actually seen the Drinker in person before! He's quite handsome, as I'm sure you are as well. Anyway, keep the spot-on critiques up, lads.
As an avid (and some would say, unhealthily obsessed) Dune fan, I can only guess that Paul Atreides will eventually become ground down by the existential ennui of his own superiority. He'll probably just put on a dark cloak and wander off into desert to sulk or something. Then, they'll probably just go on to turn his son into some sort of deformed mutant phallic symbol. And then, almost every Dune faction will be taken over by women. *shakes head*
Yeah it’s crazy someone did all that shit 60 years ago without the obnoxiously preachy attitude about it we have today.
@Echo video idea for you: how they ruin same-race hetero relationships consistently
Ironman-gwinith? ironman dies
Hulk-widow? Widow dies
Jane-Thor? Jane dies
Vision-witch? vision dies
Strange-whatername? she leaves him because of blip and it was never meant to be
"the widespread destruction of the happily ever after"
Just notice how in RoP the only relationship that doesn't give virtue points is gonna end up with the man being literally sauron
Very sad. Hopefully 1day they will stop destroying great things.
They will... when they've run out of things to destroy.
They will, once the box office failures of Terminator: Dark Fate and Ant-Man: Quantumania, the cancellations of Batgirl and Star Trek: Discovery, and all of the hate for Velma proves them wrong about one vital fact: You make a lot more money with simple entertainment, than you make with complex exitainment.
Personally, I hate the politically driven writing of today not because of the politics themself, but because the hack writers sacrificed every other aspect for it.
Yeah, what is the point of sacrificing your entertainment value, your budget, and the audience who funds your box office profits, just because you want to constantly remind your audience that you do not want the highest jobs in entertainment and award-winners to be dominated by white men anymore?
I really do wonder how different this discussion would be if our current CEO on this site wasn't in charge. Ironically, she plays a part in this topic.
Anyway, nothing irks me more than when ppl call this problem a "trend" or the director's/writer's "political beliefs" being inserted in media. This isn't some trend. This is a culture war. Do you understand what that really means? It means yes, this is an actual war to either protect or lose the dominant culture we live in.
This woke shit confuses most ppl bc they don't understand what's going on and here's the kicker - if they were to hear the truth and a thorough explanation, they wouldn't want to understand. They don't really want the truth when they hear it. They're content on thinking happy, uncontroversial things. Like children and also like children they need their fairytales intact.
Make no mistake, this is an agenda to change the dominant culture and those who really are behind this decided everything about the dominant culture needs to go. Did you notice anything most legacy characters have in common? Look really hard. By the way, whixh culture is the dominant one we live in? If anyone out there really wants to know the actual truth and solve the mystery, you need to not be squeamish with your research. If you are then go no further bc the truth isn't something said in polite conversation or civilized society. That's how the truth is covered up and how the lies stay protected and how the ppl stay stupid.
I didnt REALLY care that Luke and Han Leia or any of the others got rubbished, because I wasnt invested. BUT that doesnt mean it needed to be done. It didnt. I guess we are just lucky that Tolkein doesnt actually ahve any 4th age works otherwise Galadriel, Aragorn, Frodo, Gandalf and Elrond would suffer the same treatment and that would suck... instead some of their younger selves get that treatment instead... ugh, boring and unoriginal.
I think the South Park episode about Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull is another example that fits this video perfectly. LOL!
That was a microcosm...
"They're taking Indiana Jones and...they're raping him!"
They are miserable people who can't stand that people have a love of these characters who don't affirm their world view/ideology and often refute it.Therefore they destroy the beloved characters instead of creating their own characters to contrast them or represent their own views.
How was Terminal List MAGA-ish? Near as I can tell, it would have received just as good reviews if it came out twenty years ago, aside from the fact that it would have been in a rather more swamped market at that time full of similar ideas. It spoke to a bygone zeitgeist, which is why people liked it, in fact it eschewed contemporary political messaging to tell a warrior story. the main villains were amoral officers and stolen valour wannabes.
When a movie or a television show gets a studio-mandated sequel to legacy characters that bring them back just to ruin them like this, I only have one pair of words to describe the purpose of such a failure of a cash-grab that hates the idea of fan service: *Negative Nostalgia.* Bob Gale and Robert Zemeckis were wholly prepared for this when they had enough power as filmmakers with proven quality creative control, to negotiate with Universal and protect the copyright rights of Back to the Future from any uncreative who could pull the same rubbish as The Last Jedi and Star Trek: Discovery. You could could even say as a joke...that they saw this coming into the *future!* XD April 26, 2023, 12:14am
Another thing that kills me are how some characters are treated when the writer is a fan of the property. I tolerate Jurassic World, if anything I just like seeing dinosaurs doing dinosaur things. In the case of JW Dominion, the legacy characters are caricatures of themselves. Ellie is turned into an independent girl boss, Ian is comic relief who has monologues about chaos, and Alan is doesn’t understand technology and is there to end up with Ellie. It’s basically just taking the character traits and dialing them up to 11 to get the nostalgia response from the audience. I went through a phase of not liking JP3, it’s still not my favorite of the original trilogy but I do like Alan’s little journey of over coming his PTSD. At the beginning of the movie he is haunted by his ties to Jurassic Park in both his dreams (I would have handled that scene differently but I get the point) and in his work. I like the chat he had with Eric about astronomers and astronaut. It’s not on the same level as JP but it’s still got me thinking which if a movie can get me thinking I consider it a win. Dominion on the other hand… doesn’t really use it’s cast to evolve them or ask questions… they just do their thing and the plot just moves them around as needed. The dialogue with the legacy characters feels more like a fanfic then actual dialogue. Anyway, all this to say, even people who are fans of the material may not actually understand it to write it. I guess one big reason why The Lost World and JP3 still at least feel like JP was because Michael Critchon was still involved at least as an advisor in the writing room.
Your channel is so underrated
Good material. Your audio levels are all over the place.
what’s the other guys name? Dan Morill? i can’t find him for some reason on YT
Murrell
@@EchoChamberlain 🙏
Old Legacy Characters don't deserve what Hollywood is doing to them because of Woke Culture. I grew up with these characters.
Just like many other people did.
If they want my money stop doing this.
You were doing so well until MAGAish. Gonna have to explain that one,bud
The trick is not to care (hard to do in practice, of course). I liken the new zeitgeist of popular media as it being possessed by an ethereal demon that senses what stories and characters that are beloved by filthy anglo straight men and then aims to destroy them once detected. If people just learnt the lesson from the Force Awakens and realise that Disney et al have no clue what they are doing, and just ignore the content they produce as akin to lollies/candy from a creepy pedo - things wouldn't likely be so bad. The more I see the rant videos from nerds on youtube getting angry the more that creature thrives. It doesn't care about money - or rather how much money the big media companies lose - all this demon cares about is hurting and angering the people that seem to care about it. The answer is to just not care. There are more pressing problems to get worried about.
I also like your position in only stating a 90% like/support for the youtubers you mention. I too feel that the often rational and sensible takes on a lot of these things are then quickly shepherded into right-wing or left-wing positions on other topics that I dont support. All too often I will agree with one of those people ranting against the hollywood thought police but then next thing they trying to sway my support for some conservative politician or businessman - and then I am out. The Critical Drinker is certainly one of them. I am liking your content and hope you keep it up.
Question not related to this video:
If I remember correctly you uploaded an Video called something like "goodbye disney star wars". I can not find this anymore. Did you put it down or was it on another channel?
Hey. I wasn't sure anyone was getting the 'vibe' of that video so I took it off...
@@EchoChamberlain sorry to hear that. I really liked the video
I believe the new version of that deleted video is Rey Returns - To A Film Franchise We're All Done With.
@@adampkalb No the deleted Video was a Music Video making fun about Disney Star Wars (was really good). The Video you reference it's just a Star Wars Video, which I also watch.
MAGA-ish all the way!
Of course creators want to put their own personal politics into the things they create. Creators have done that since the dawn of time. It's the very reason for the act of creation, consciously realised or not!
But...
CREATE SOMETHING NEW, FOR GOD'S SAKE. Creators should come up with THEIR OWN creation and put THEIR OWN politics into THAT, and let it stand or fall on its own terms. Not hijack SOMEONE ELSE'S creation, with potentially different political, moral, and ethical messages, for clout!
If you do this to characters i love then i will stop watching the franchise. It is rather depressing to see the destruction of characters i love. Star Wars was a horrible loss. I also gave up on Terminator and Star Trek because i heard bad things and did not want to see the destruction.
What makes Terminator: Dark Fate and Seven of Nine's presence in some episodes of Star Trek: Picard hit even harder than usual is that they proved white female heroes are not safe from the same tragedies that white male heroes typically suffer from uncreative writers who want more diverse heroes with no imagination or skill or personal experience to create their own original content like the filmmakers of Everything Everywhere All At Once. April 26, 2023, 12:10am
I can't believe you were onto something and then still had to make a snarky comment about testosterone driven material. I haven't seen testosterone driven material in over 5 years. Where is it? Please show me I haven't had a strong male lead in so long I'm already starting to paint my toenails
What audience are they appealing to? The audience for these legacy IPs that does not exist, aka everybody who hates them and want something to use to bully their nerds, or the far left who sees diversity and sheer representation to push a message as an excuse to justify bad writing? April 25, 2023, 11:52pm
Let me first say, I agree with you here, in broad sense. With that in mind, there are two major points you should consider.
1. "Writers are inserting their opinions into modern media."
I think there's a systemic bait & switch happening in modern media with regard to this point. At face value the above statement appears correct, but let's take moment to dig deeper. Disney is surely one of the biggest offenders of this trend, right? Where does Disney actually stand, as a company. It's certainly not "woke." Disney as a company is very conservative, cancelling shows like Owl House (etc) because of their inclusivity. And to be sure, Disney is quick to claim any positive reaction to said inclusivity, but at the end of the day, Disney is beholden to its investors and the largely conservative forces that drive modern society. In essence, Disney wants to appear like the "rebels" by paying superficial lip-service to 'wokeness', but in reality they are firmly entrenched as the empire. So, are writers injecting their personal politics into media, or are writers simply working in servitude of a opportunistic and predatory institution that forces them to push whatever is the current hot-topic button in modern pop culture?
2. "Media nowadays is too political."
This might be a bit of a fallacy. I think you could make the argument that media has always been political. What's really changed is social mores. Old media does not appear political because society has moved past the politics of previous decades. The politics of decades past seem insignificant or inconsequential to us now. We are effectively blind to any topic that was considered questionable of disruptive 30+ years ago. The presence of politics across different eras is of course complex and not easily categorized for simplicity, so I'm speaking in broad strokes here. No doubt you can find examples that run counter to my argument, but the overall trends are worth examining.
I hope you get a chance absorb and examine the observations I've made here, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts.
what the hell does The Terminal List have to do with MAGA? you just lost my subscription, that was gifted to you by the Drinker
Agreed. That was a biased and certainly oddball take by Echo. He lost me on that one.
Lol. I cant imagine being this sensitive...
I think he confused being a Conservative with MAGA?
I do agree with one comment calling you soft though lol.
It's ok to disagree with people.
You Echo my thoughts on those two men, but what really bothers me is that they DO say to leave politics out of our favorite media franchises - YET that is ALL they talk about when there are AMERICAN ELECTIONS!
Either walk the walk, or all you are is just talk - This is my message to you all.
What? They talk about politics when there are elections? That is unheard of!
@@mala6238 in the context of keeping our beloved franchises as their own worlds. Do not insert real world things into them unless you are a woke moron
Luke Skywanker.
Middle age men complaining about childhood media is a career and that is sad. Cheap nostalgia fills seats and in a risk adverse industry it is enough. Add in outrage is great marketing and you get current blockbusters.
This isnt that new. Lotr was good but we pretend the hobbit didnt happen. Same thing with the matrix and the sequels. Terminator has been trash after #2. Marvel has been trash after phase 3. Starwars has been trash since the original trilogy.
New era. Same problems.
True but the decline is down a few extra notches and is more widespread. I'm not a lover of the SW prequels but there is substance enough there to be properly expressed in a few rewrites. The Disney Wars moves on the other hand are unsalvageable. Just pure, lifeless product.
Agree with you on the Drinker. 90% of his critiques are really accurate but he has this maga blind spot which I guess comes from hanging with a lot of the American anti-woke crowd. It's odd since the Republicans make the Tories look nice and having a Scot support a Ultra-Tory is just wierd. I really love the Red Letter media crew, just the vids are a bit long
If it wasn’t for the “woke ideologies” wtf would all these TH-camrs be doing exactly? They’ve made lotsa $$$$$ off crying about children’s movies 🤣
this is bait
i know you're being a dck, but you have a piont.