You had me right up until the end. I don't think self-expression is over-rated at all- because I think there's a lot of people who experience things that don't get talked about, don't get shared enough, and it can be awful feeling like you're the only person in the world dealing with something or experiencing something. We as artists have an opportunity to take what happens to us as people, and put it out there for other people to see and find that Eureka moment- that they're not alone, that someone else sees what they see or feels what they feel. I think sharing our own experience so others can feel a connection to us, is just as important as pandering to what we *think* people what to hear and read. you're right that it can suck if we've been vulnerable and it doesn't catch the audiences we hope for, but- i don't think it's right to dissuade artists from telling their story, rather than the human story- because all of our stories *are* the human story, just facets of it that don't always get to see the light of day. Then again- i'm a queer, trans, disabled, neurodivergent artist, so for me a lot of 'human condition' stories fall flat when they come from the cis, straight, neurotypical and able bodied perspective. My connection to that is learned, at best- but it doesn't hit as close to home as something put out there by artists that tell stories that shed light on our shared struggles and joys.
We probably agree more than you think. But that's also why I added the caveat that something of the author will always enter into the work. But that in list of priority, that self-expression should fall under the quest for commonality. In your response, you're also arguing for commonality, but that it's best achieved through the telling of the individual story. In a way, I also agree with that, but I see many modern examples used to emphasize difference over the shared qualities of life. So our disagreement is more a difference in amount or priority than anything else.
well-said! If you don't self-indulge or self-express, we wouldn't have nearly as much variety in stories. You don't have to worry about making something for others because only you can make what you can make, if that makes sense.
yeah like i can write something that panders to everyone in my sleep by following patterns i’ve read but then why would i bother writing something that’s already written? a general audience has tons of things they can read but it’s important to know that when you pander to a general audience, you will entertain everyone and touch no one. most of the comics i remember i remember because the author put their experience *first* and *then* worried about how to present it to an audience
@@jholtilluswhat dire beast wrote is everything you shouldn't do for any entertainment. Deconstructing the truth doesn't help people overcome problems. Nor do I want to read about someone's personal life biography in a comic.
I would have to say I was 60% there in turning my clusterfluck of workflow into something that could make a completed story. You sir just gave me that other 40% and have gained a subscriber!
the part about forgetting about it for a while rings so true. back when my life schedule was hectic from uni while i was making my webcomic, i get these almost a full week period of not finishing a page. so that i can graduate from uni. right after that dormancy period when i return to check my half-finished comic i spot all these awkward dialogue and wonky panels. so of course i fix stuff & reword some, and it ends up being better than what i started with. and that's why i advocate this to other artists, let it alone for a while & forget! you'll come back seeing with better eyes. then again my comic didn't have a deadline to adhere to. so unless your comic is under a strict deadline, don't take too long off it but still use that time for breaks. your health is important too, body and mind.
Your final thought about self expression is exactly how I look at art, music and most creative mediums. I really related to that last part and the video as a whole has given me tips on how to go about building my comic I've had wurring around in my head for a few years. No guarantees but this helps as a jumping off point. So thanks for your video I'm glad I came across it.
I've been searching for a video/information like this for a while and this is by far the best video on how to start. I was so stumped on how to get my ideas out of my head and out to paper. Thank you for this very informative video!!!! I'll be checking out your other comic videos too 😊
Good vid! Always interesting to see another writer/creative go through their process. I really like how you say writing is about going from the general, to the specific, good turn of phrase. Getting into making my own comics at the moment, and when to add lettering has been something I’ve been wondering about, interesting to see your perspective of finishing the art and coming back to it with fresh eyes later to do another dialogue pass while lettering. That’s smart!
Thanks a ton for the video. Always happy to find a new create to follow and learn from. I always question my writing process, thinking that there has to be a faster more efficient way to do it. But funneling general ideas into a more specific story has always been my go-to. It the easiest way for me to write and keep my ideas organized. Happy to know I'm not doing something wrong.
I'm glad it resonated and thanks for watching. And yes, it doesn't seem like the nuts and bolts of process get talked about a lot but it can be reassuring to hear the literal "first this, then that" steps another person is using.
This is a great channel! and this is a great video. like your humor. I am a hobbyist comic creator (for now :-) Thanks for sharing your process. I really appreciate the advice for creative block "draw something and fix it. don't stare at a blank page."
Had a quick peek, and gotta say your style is so vivid. I hope I can draw like you one day. I wanna make a little comic series for the sake of it. Gotta just do your thing, am I right? :P
I really appreciate it. And yeah, the best way to learn how to make comics is to make comics. It's the best thing I ever did for my drawing ability and I waited far too long to get started. Go for it.
I like your goal of exploring virtuous change to connect with people. I agree that these are some of the stories that really speak to people and that stick with them. Maybe this is why Ghibli is so effective because they tend to portray individuals in their attempts at repairing the world? I think subverting these arcs or exploring the inverse of virtuous change can sometimes accomplish similar goals, in they have a lot to say about the nature of change and morality? I love nuance but I guess if I knew I could only read one story for the rest of my life I tend to believe that I would opt for one that told a story with a positive arc, so overall I agree with what you had to say at the end there. Thank you for sharing your methods, I've been really enjoying this series and will be checking out your work :]
Thanks for sharing your process! I actually just discovered doing the Marvel method with myself recently. It feels more natural to me and like you were saying it gives you a starting point to mold as you go. For me it grew out of starting as simply as possible, using a four page ashcan format I heard at a panel: Cover, Establish Problem, Change of Perspective, Overcomic It! After a few of those I moved eight pages using Dan Harmon's story circle. Then recently I finished two 16 page stories trying to use the Hero's Journey, but ended up diverging following my intuition. I think learning to trust your own instincts really helps, like doing improv. Do you ever use a story structure to start with or do you think it gets internalized with time?
I could probably benefit from thinking more about structure --I rarely go beyond what I said in the video: the character arc, the problem, the way in which solving that problem affects the character arc. I'm sure I could get better by studying other approaches.
I'm close very close to releasing my own comic and I naturally use the same process you use for creating pages. Do you have any videos or tips for the copyright process. That right now is the one thing holding me back from releasing
No videos on the subject....but in the US copyright is automatic upon creation. When published work is pretty easily traceable to its source--though you can also use the copyright office to put a stamp of extra protection there. You should find some legit legal sources on it though, as I am just an illustrator who took media law in college 15 years ago.
Probably the error about self expression is to think of it as something you try to do. “I’m going to self express through a comic today” just doesn’t make sense. It just bursts out of you, despite you, in the middle of the creative process.
Defining it is difficult. You're defining it as an impulse, but I think most would agree that not EVERY impulse needs to be taken, so there's some kind of guardrails to be placed around it, or some means to direct it that is a product of rational intelligence. My entire position is that self-expression needs to be filtered through higher priorities, allowing through the filter some things and holding back others. If placed at the highest point of the pyramid where there is no, or only minimal filtering, it produces self-indulgent outcomes unrefined by aesthetic, communication, or moral demands. This would be "overrating" it.
@@jholtillus I understand and I agree, I think for people who have something important to tell about themselves (often coming from trauma), it just naturally transpire subconsciously through their arts.
For some reason, I can't find the subscribe button. I'm not being funny or ironic, I genuinely cannot find the subscribe button. Did TH-cam remove it or something? I absolutely want to subscribe.
Well it's supposed to be right there in the bottom right corner of the video. If TH-cam is hiding it my subscribe button then what hope do any of us have?
Unfortunately yes, the site is being migrated to another host right now and the process is automated, so we're just waiting for it to fix itself at this point.
Wow it’s almost like he’s insulting Disney but he’s not, it’s just Disney writers SOMEHOW were hired doing the complete opposite of what he’s telling the rest of us NOT to do. Especially when he spoke about self indulgence/Self Expression. For some reason Disney seems to do this with all of their products…actually that’s what A LOT of writers are doing in today’s age.
Poor Disney gets made fun of a lot. I certainly wasn't trying to talk about them but I see your point. In terms of self-expression, I need to do a longer video on that. It's nuanced enough that it deserves long explanation, especially because a high priority on self expression makes perfect sense with a particularly modern mindset that all of us have a measure of, although I think it leads to unhappy creators and lower quality work as it gets into excess.
Some random writer out there: Western audiences are just not smart enough to understand. Also another random writer: They are just haters. This guy: Maybe I didn't put it together as clearly as I thought.
Even if I turned out to be completely wrong on that thought...I'd still rather believe it. If it's the audience's fault, there's not a thing in the world I can do about it. If it's my fault, at least I can try to fix it.
As much as I agree with your process advice, I strongly disagree with your philosophy. Or rather I find it ironic that your focus on connecting with other people is… expression of your own wishes and ideals.;) Which is great for your art, but still ends up being self-expression.
I definitely annoyed a handful. It's probably something that deserves its own video at some point, because self-expression is a natural consequence of making, as I mentioned there at the end. My problem with it is that it has become the end-all of art, and ranked at the top of the priority list. I think that's disordered priority, and ultimately does more harm than good. But even if I lay it out in total clarity as an argument, I have no doubt many will still disagree. Debates about priority are challenging even internally, so people of good intention will undoubtedly disagree.
Oh, wow, pack it in, artists - self expression is dead. Best to hammer out the same stories, in the same style, until we’re all one homogenized lump of an form, minus the art.
You had me right up until the end. I don't think self-expression is over-rated at all- because I think there's a lot of people who experience things that don't get talked about, don't get shared enough, and it can be awful feeling like you're the only person in the world dealing with something or experiencing something. We as artists have an opportunity to take what happens to us as people, and put it out there for other people to see and find that Eureka moment- that they're not alone, that someone else sees what they see or feels what they feel. I think sharing our own experience so others can feel a connection to us, is just as important as pandering to what we *think* people what to hear and read. you're right that it can suck if we've been vulnerable and it doesn't catch the audiences we hope for, but- i don't think it's right to dissuade artists from telling their story, rather than the human story- because all of our stories *are* the human story, just facets of it that don't always get to see the light of day. Then again- i'm a queer, trans, disabled, neurodivergent artist, so for me a lot of 'human condition' stories fall flat when they come from the cis, straight, neurotypical and able bodied perspective. My connection to that is learned, at best- but it doesn't hit as close to home as something put out there by artists that tell stories that shed light on our shared struggles and joys.
Thank you.
We probably agree more than you think. But that's also why I added the caveat that something of the author will always enter into the work. But that in list of priority, that self-expression should fall under the quest for commonality. In your response, you're also arguing for commonality, but that it's best achieved through the telling of the individual story. In a way, I also agree with that, but I see many modern examples used to emphasize difference over the shared qualities of life. So our disagreement is more a difference in amount or priority than anything else.
well-said! If you don't self-indulge or self-express, we wouldn't have nearly as much variety in stories. You don't have to worry about making something for others because only you can make what you can make, if that makes sense.
yeah like i can write something that panders to everyone in my sleep by following patterns i’ve read but then why would i bother writing something that’s already written? a general audience has tons of things they can read but it’s important to know that when you pander to a general audience, you will entertain everyone and touch no one. most of the comics i remember i remember because the author put their experience *first* and *then* worried about how to present it to an audience
@@jholtilluswhat dire beast wrote is everything you shouldn't do for any entertainment. Deconstructing the truth doesn't help people overcome problems. Nor do I want to read about someone's personal life biography in a comic.
I would have to say I was 60% there in turning my clusterfluck of workflow into something that could make a completed story. You sir just gave me that other 40% and have gained a subscriber!
Glad something in there could help!
the part about forgetting about it for a while rings so true. back when my life schedule was hectic from uni while i was making my webcomic, i get these almost a full week period of not finishing a page. so that i can graduate from uni. right after that dormancy period when i return to check my half-finished comic i spot all these awkward dialogue and wonky panels. so of course i fix stuff & reword some, and it ends up being better than what i started with. and that's why i advocate this to other artists, let it alone for a while & forget! you'll come back seeing with better eyes.
then again my comic didn't have a deadline to adhere to. so unless your comic is under a strict deadline, don't take too long off it but still use that time for breaks. your health is important too, body and mind.
I'm from Brazil, and honestly this video helped a lot, thanks man
Extremely glad it helped. Thanks for the comment!
I've had the hardest time finding this info in a manner i could understand. Thanks, man!
Glad it helped! Thanks for watching!
Your final thought about self expression is exactly how I look at art, music and most creative mediums. I really related to that last part and the video as a whole has given me tips on how to go about building my comic I've had wurring around in my head for a few years. No guarantees but this helps as a jumping off point. So thanks for your video I'm glad I came across it.
I'm glad you got something from it! Thanks for watching!
I've been searching for a video/information like this for a while and this is by far the best video on how to start. I was so stumped on how to get my ideas out of my head and out to paper. Thank you for this very informative video!!!! I'll be checking out your other comic videos too 😊
I'm glad it helped! thank you for watching!
I like the study of Laocoön...nice touch! Thanks for the video.
It's a great one to sketch! So much movement. Thanks for watching!
Good vid! Always interesting to see another writer/creative go through their process. I really like how you say writing is about going from the general, to the specific, good turn of phrase. Getting into making my own comics at the moment, and when to add lettering has been something I’ve been wondering about, interesting to see your perspective of finishing the art and coming back to it with fresh eyes later to do another dialogue pass while lettering. That’s smart!
Thanks! That method has been a huge help to me, so I hope it works for others too.
Thanks a ton for the video. Always happy to find a new create to follow and learn from. I always question my writing process, thinking that there has to be a faster more efficient way to do it. But funneling general ideas into a more specific story has always been my go-to. It the easiest way for me to write and keep my ideas organized. Happy to know I'm not doing something wrong.
I'm glad it resonated and thanks for watching. And yes, it doesn't seem like the nuts and bolts of process get talked about a lot but it can be reassuring to hear the literal "first this, then that" steps another person is using.
I agree one hundred percent. @@jholtillus
Solid technique dude! Never enough knowledge
Appreciate it!
This is a great channel! and this is a great video. like your humor. I am a hobbyist comic creator (for now :-) Thanks for sharing your process. I really appreciate the advice for creative block "draw something and fix it. don't stare at a blank page."
It has really helped me, I hope it helps others too. Thank you!
I love the quality of your content, Its very informative and helpful
Thank you!
Good stuff! Looking forward to more.
Thank you! More is coming.
Had a quick peek, and gotta say your style is so vivid. I hope I can draw like you one day. I wanna make a little comic series for the sake of it. Gotta just do your thing, am I right? :P
I really appreciate it. And yeah, the best way to learn how to make comics is to make comics. It's the best thing I ever did for my drawing ability and I waited far too long to get started. Go for it.
I like your goal of exploring virtuous change to connect with people. I agree that these are some of the stories that really speak to people and that stick with them. Maybe this is why Ghibli is so effective because they tend to portray individuals in their attempts at repairing the world? I think subverting these arcs or exploring the inverse of virtuous change can sometimes accomplish similar goals, in they have a lot to say about the nature of change and morality? I love nuance but I guess if I knew I could only read one story for the rest of my life I tend to believe that I would opt for one that told a story with a positive arc, so overall I agree with what you had to say at the end there.
Thank you for sharing your methods, I've been really enjoying this series and will be checking out your work :]
Thanks for creating this channel! I’ve been sitting on an idea for a comic for a long while, and each video answers so many questions I have.
Glad you got something from it! Thank you for watching.
Thank you for the great advice!
Couldn't have been recommended this video at a better time 🙏
Serendipity. Thank you for watching! Glad you got something from it.
Outstanding work, divine craftsmanship 🎉
Thank you for stopping in!
Thanks for sharing your process! I actually just discovered doing the Marvel method with myself recently. It feels more natural to me and like you were saying it gives you a starting point to mold as you go. For me it grew out of starting as simply as possible, using a four page ashcan format I heard at a panel: Cover, Establish Problem, Change of Perspective, Overcomic It! After a few of those I moved eight pages using Dan Harmon's story circle. Then recently I finished two 16 page stories trying to use the Hero's Journey, but ended up diverging following my intuition. I think learning to trust your own instincts really helps, like doing improv. Do you ever use a story structure to start with or do you think it gets internalized with time?
I could probably benefit from thinking more about structure --I rarely go beyond what I said in the video: the character arc, the problem, the way in which solving that problem affects the character arc. I'm sure I could get better by studying other approaches.
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching. Tell your friends! Your enemies too. Let's not leave anyone out.
Lol 😂😂
Thank you for sharing your experience
Thanks for watching!
So helpful! Thank you!
Glad you got something from it! Thanks for watching!
Looks awesome , very helpful
I'm close very close to releasing my own comic and I naturally use the same process you use for creating pages. Do you have any videos or tips for the copyright process. That right now is the one thing holding me back from releasing
No videos on the subject....but in the US copyright is automatic upon creation. When published work is pretty easily traceable to its source--though you can also use the copyright office to put a stamp of extra protection there. You should find some legit legal sources on it though, as I am just an illustrator who took media law in college 15 years ago.
Probably the error about self expression is to think of it as something you try to do. “I’m going to self express through a comic today” just doesn’t make sense. It just bursts out of you, despite you, in the middle of the creative process.
Defining it is difficult. You're defining it as an impulse, but I think most would agree that not EVERY impulse needs to be taken, so there's some kind of guardrails to be placed around it, or some means to direct it that is a product of rational intelligence. My entire position is that self-expression needs to be filtered through higher priorities, allowing through the filter some things and holding back others. If placed at the highest point of the pyramid where there is no, or only minimal filtering, it produces self-indulgent outcomes unrefined by aesthetic, communication, or moral demands. This would be "overrating" it.
@@jholtillus I understand and I agree, I think for people who have something important to tell about themselves (often coming from trauma), it just naturally transpire subconsciously through their arts.
For some reason, I can't find the subscribe button.
I'm not being funny or ironic, I genuinely cannot find the subscribe button.
Did TH-cam remove it or something? I absolutely want to subscribe.
Well it's supposed to be right there in the bottom right corner of the video. If TH-cam is hiding it my subscribe button then what hope do any of us have?
Aw cheese, I think my version of TH-cam is cursed or something.
@@jholtillus, oh found out the issue.
I had my subscribe button disabled.
You've got yourself a new subscriber.
Another tech issue slain. Welcome aboard@@Adventstein
heads up! your website is getting blocked by the unsafe thing! you need an ssl I belive
Unfortunately yes, the site is being migrated to another host right now and the process is automated, so we're just waiting for it to fix itself at this point.
Wow it’s almost like he’s insulting Disney but he’s not, it’s just Disney writers SOMEHOW were hired doing the complete opposite of what he’s telling the rest of us NOT to do.
Especially when he spoke about self indulgence/Self Expression. For some reason Disney seems to do this with all of their products…actually that’s what A LOT of writers are doing in today’s age.
Poor Disney gets made fun of a lot. I certainly wasn't trying to talk about them but I see your point. In terms of self-expression, I need to do a longer video on that. It's nuanced enough that it deserves long explanation, especially because a high priority on self expression makes perfect sense with a particularly modern mindset that all of us have a measure of, although I think it leads to unhappy creators and lower quality work as it gets into excess.
The reader does not always have to understand your page only if your audience is brainwashed by autotune and fortnite
Some random writer out there: Western audiences are just not smart enough to understand.
Also another random writer: They are just haters.
This guy: Maybe I didn't put it together as clearly as I thought.
Even if I turned out to be completely wrong on that thought...I'd still rather believe it. If it's the audience's fault, there's not a thing in the world I can do about it. If it's my fault, at least I can try to fix it.
As much as I agree with your process advice, I strongly disagree with your philosophy. Or rather I find it ironic that your focus on connecting with other people is… expression of your own wishes and ideals.;) Which is great for your art, but still ends up being self-expression.
I definitely annoyed a handful. It's probably something that deserves its own video at some point, because self-expression is a natural consequence of making, as I mentioned there at the end. My problem with it is that it has become the end-all of art, and ranked at the top of the priority list. I think that's disordered priority, and ultimately does more harm than good. But even if I lay it out in total clarity as an argument, I have no doubt many will still disagree. Debates about priority are challenging even internally, so people of good intention will undoubtedly disagree.
@@jholtillus I would love to listen to your thoughts on that matter. One does not have to agree with an argument to find it enlightening;)
Oh, wow, pack it in, artists - self expression is dead. Best to hammer out the same stories, in the same style, until we’re all one homogenized lump of an form, minus the art.