Hey, love the videos ! I noticed you wrap your strapes around & hook to the rub-rail ( I know, eveybody does this, & 9 out of 10 DOT inspectors won't say a word, but get an "old timer" & he will ) For "safty' & proper way, I put mine through rub-rail down to the trailer I-beam to hook ( I carry 30' straps), or if they are too short or a wheel or something is in way, I'll go through rub-rail & hook to C-channel right there. I just feel better having EVERYTHING inside my rub-rails. Anyway, seems like things are going well for you ! keep it up. Thanks, & God Bless. Ric / Marshall Trucking
Thanks Ric appreciate it! Its been good recently makes up for January haha. I recently ordered all 30 footers to replace my 27s as I slowly take them out of service. I sometimes hook the C channel but usually the rub rail as you know.
I run a small space heater in my truck with a small generator you could either put in the bed of your truck or in the neck of your trailer. Works very well. Costs about $5 to heat the interior of my truck vs a hotel. I’ve had no issues heating my truck can into the single digits.
Thats very smart sir! Thank you! What space Heater do you have? Do you run the extension cord through the back window? Can you run AC as well during the summer?
The space heater brand is “ give best” bought on Amazon. It’s got 2 heat settings. Low is 750 watts and hi is 1500w. I’ve always run 750 watt setting. I power it with a Honda 2000. I’m switching to a predator 3500 ( harbor freight tools) because the Honda will only run for about 6hrs before running out of gas. The predator should run about 11hrs on 2 gallons of gas or so. I run the thin power cord from the heater pinched in the passenger door seal. The larger ext cord I just lay on the running board and up and over the truck bed. A/c a guy has a TH-cam video on. I’m going to try that soon. Make sure whatever space heater you buy has a thermostat dial on it. That way it will turn on and off as needed on its own
@Olson's In Overdrive Thank you so much for this insight man means a lot to me! I prefer sleeping in the truck most of the time too. Feels more like home.
Thanks man that load taught me a whole lot. I've only ever run like a tarped pallet size load, so really nothing. I run out of Colorado Springs. I'm looking forward to watching your new videos. Glad to see you didn't call it quits I thought for sure you were done after that load you brought to steamboat. I avoid Anything west of I25 until mid April if I can. Those mountains are a pain unless it's summer.
Did you do that three hours on duty? Just curious I’m thinking about getting into the hot shot myself. I bought a brand new truck should be here in a couple weeks.
I did it off duty. If the truck isn't running, it's all off duty for me. I just left the business. I hope you plan on running CDL because you won't make it non cdl in this current market.
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTech yes sir I currently run 53 foot drive-van I live in New York but I’m always running to Oregon, Washington, California and everything in between. Yeah I’m definitely struggling here now even the business I’m in I don’t own the truck I lease it. But the lease agreements really good one I pay nothing on the truck. Trailer and I mean nothing no fuel no insurance no repairs but in exchange for that I only get $.75 a mile which brings me to a weekly income of roughly on average 2000 some weeks I can do 3K gross so yeah, I made some mistakes for sure. I made some decisions when I was angry I don’t recommend that I bought a brand new truck which was beautiful dodge truck, heavy duty, 1 ton Dooley brand new 23 has a towing capacity of 33,000 pounds I think give it take a couple pounds I just got financing for a trailer 35 foot deck with another 5 feet ramp that’s like 26,000 bucks plus but yes I would be doing CDL and things are getting tough all around
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTech i’ll be honest with you I make decent amount of money on a weekly basis so I have considered not buying the trailer going forward with the hot shot and just staying where I’m at and writing out this wave because I know I can make on average a minimum of 1500 a week with no expenses and obviously I can go up to 3K so I thought in the beginning I could do better than that and hot shot. I really didn’t examine or do the proper research prior to making the decision to move forward. Like I said, I did some things out of anger, so there’s pros and cons everywhere. I’m not afraid to work I guess that’s a benefit the only thing I’m concerned about is sleeping in the truck in the summertime and in the winter time how do you stay? Cool, winter time I figure I’ll just buy a small generator and get a oil filled electric heater. I think that would be sufficient to keep me warm in the winter and in the summertime. I looked into some air conditioning units that are actually pretty cool, but I don’t know how efficient
Do you have an email or something? I would like to send you some pictures of my Grandpa's truck when he worked hotshot back in the late 90's hauling doubles with a fully loaded trailer. Man I love seeing this!
Hi! Do you do private direct hot shot trucking? I may be buying a used garbage truck and need it transported from Indianapolis to San Diego port. I'm just trying to get quotes and price out shipping. Let me know if this is something you are able to do :)
Sorry man I don't run that lane and refuse to go into California. Probably plan for about 4-5 dollars a mile on your cost to move it at a minimum. Especially going into California and to a port.
I need to know about the 5h Bloomer trailer. Did you have a roll of 6/7 way wire on hand to make the doubles harness, and how did you come up with a length that will suit multiple uses?
I carry a 35 foot 7 way harness. I disconnect the brake wire at both ends because the brake gain won't match on the trailers which can cause serious safety problems. I won't pull doubles if the main trailer is over 30 foot long.
Hey Tyler, how’s it going what size trailer are you running and is it non CDL. Getting ready to buy a trailer just getting into Hotshot.Been pulling RV’s no money any suggestions would be helpful.
I ran a 28 footer so I could carry 10500 lbs and work local. Would recommend at least a 36 footer if you run OTR. If you can legally run a 40 I would but be careful don't exceed 65 foot total length unless your truck has no bed or has a hotshot CM bed
To be honest, you will not be able to profit from doing it part-time. The insurance kills you, not including everything else. I will attach a link to my video about it. It's a very common misconception, even I thought to try it part-time until I got into it. I love channel name BTW badass! th-cam.com/video/LloZdpRgbWs/w-d-xo.html
@Tyler the Hotshot Hauler thank you for the reply and your opinion. Also, thanks for the compliment. My Instagram and tik tok are the same names. gotta keep it consistent
I'm in Denver CO and I've been wanting to start hot shot but don't know where to start I'd love to pick your brain how can I get ahold of you if that's ok?
Don't get caught haha. There is a legal loophole for pulling anything considered as an RV from the factory to dealer to pull up to triples. But for flats with loaded dumps I would be screwed. There is not a law that says you can't pull doubles without a CDL but my GCWR of 26k would be exceeded from the second trailer. The answer is take back roads like those outlaw livestock and grain haulers in the 389 peterbilts. I've never been stopped or bothered they even let me go through a portable they asked me if i had a CDL last year. I said no they said have a good day. Not sure why I thought I was screwed. I saw 8 troopers on the way back for this load haha 😅😅
@Kali Messiah if you have a cdl, you must have the endorsement. However, there is no law that says you can't pull doubles without a CDL. However your GCWR would be exceeded. There is loop holes in place for moving trailers considered RVs from the factory to dealers to cover you up to triples without a CDL.
Yeah he's leaving out too many expenses like cost of truck trailer commercial insurance tolls if he pays for load boards or anything like that ongoing expenses have it easily take another $1,500 off that amount. Week. Unless he has his truck paid off. Insurance is usually never paid off unless you pay it all up front
I was talking about direct expenses from the week. Not planned or any other expenses. Recurring expenses is a whole different ball game. All equipment and insurance is paid in full.
Doubles are much more dangerous for added trailer sway and the added Crack the whip effect. I've only seen one person in my life who could actually back doubles up. Kudos to you I couldn't imagine that shitshow for deliveries.
B trains are different from doubles connected via ball hitch. Fifth wheels minimize lateral swaying, ball hitches dont, they allow movement in all directions which allcan give way to swaying and fishtailing. Not to mention, ball hitches are much smaller than fifth wheels.
@redneck826 there is no difference as far as sway. Hitch strength doesn't matter as long as your under the recommended/rated weight. It's weight distribution that will be a major factor on sway. Super btrains can be crazy if you mess up on where you put the weight
Only 30% of what you gross is actually yours to spend after expenses and equipment these youtube hot shots love to post their gross but never their expenses
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTechyes that’s 1500 on average a week…i was driving a flatbed hauling agriculture machines local home daily paid vacations, medical insurance and my take home was 1200-1400 every week…videos like this reeled me into this sh!t 🕳️ hotshot industry because youu guys emphasize on your gross amd make it seem all dandy…emphasize on the expenses so no one else gets tricked into this low paying over worked industry I suggest you get your CDL license and get a local job pretty much same pay zero expenses zero liability for compliance or maintenance and home with wife n kids
@JS-90.S Left hotshot after a year of struggling. Went back to being a heavy diesel tech 80k a year working 4 days a week, much better lifestyle for sure.
I've been fortunate. They have stopped me twice in the last year. Once they saw it was from a factory to dealer, they didn't care. They checked my trailer connections and said good job for hooking shit up correctly and sent me on my way. The load in this video was Hella illegal, especially on combination length and pretty certain I was overweight. I'm glad i didn't get stopped on this load it would have been bad news bears. Usually, for doubles, I just move a stock combo trailer with a small bumper pull behind. There are loopholes for pulling trailers that classify as an RV up to triples as long as your total weight doesn't exceed 26k without a CDL
I came back here to tell you that you were right. A Trooper stopped me yesterday he told Me that he sees Me all the time and wanted to check if I had a cdl. Long story short he could have destroyed me with fines, violations, and 60 days out of service. I won't be doing doubles again till I get my CDL.
It is worth it when I could pick it up at 830 am and drive to pick up the second load because I couldn't pick up the second load until 11am and it only was only 9 miles off the interstate I was already on to head back to Kansas to drop it. Including the deadhead, it was an additional 100 miles total to move it. 400 dollars for 100 miles is a good rate last time I checked. 4 bucks a mile. Even accouting for my fuel mpg loss of 3 mpg for the high profile. When you add in the other factors, it makes sense. Regularly, I would have never touched that load.
Always great 👍🏻 content man …. Hey I’m in the elevator business I’m a mechanic and I want to give this hotshot a try …I scale about 130k a year … Can I scale something like that or more in this business.?? Thanks in advance
@JOSE MOYA Stay with your current career haha 100% honest. I appreciate the nice compliment. To leave a job like that to work 60 plus hours a week and maybe gross 150k a year before expenses. Stick with what you got. Much better option
I love attempted insults that make zero sense. They're always riddled with misspelling and failed grammar. There are plenty of people with CDLs who can't drive a semi to save their life. FYI... Lol
You said you have 3k left over …not really I k is you either have your truck payment,trailer payment or insurance payment amd fuel set aside for the next week in reality you only have about 1500-1800 left over that’s what I was making as a w2 employee semi driver
@JS-90.S 3k left over after direct expenses. I would dump half of that in the business and keep the other half in a perfect scenario. Nobody gets rich in Hotshot even if you're grossing 6k a week its not enough. I left hotshot and went back to being a diesel mechanic. Got tired of not making any money for how hard I was working.
Sorry, man, I don't do private communication. People don't compensate you for your time or even bother to say thanks, so I quit doing it a long time ago.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[1/2] เปิดแคมป์หลอนต้อนรับ 2 ตัวพ่อแห่งวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2uPuHYHgwiI/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey, love the videos ! I noticed you wrap your strapes around & hook to the rub-rail ( I know, eveybody does this, & 9 out of 10 DOT inspectors won't say a word, but get an "old timer" & he will ) For "safty' & proper way, I put mine through rub-rail down to the trailer I-beam to hook ( I carry 30' straps), or if they are too short or a wheel or something is in way, I'll go through rub-rail & hook to C-channel right there. I just feel better having EVERYTHING inside my rub-rails. Anyway, seems like things are going well for you ! keep it up. Thanks, & God Bless. Ric / Marshall Trucking
Thanks Ric appreciate it! Its been good recently makes up for January haha. I recently ordered all 30 footers to replace my 27s as I slowly take them out of service. I sometimes hook the C channel but usually the rub rail as you know.
I run a small space heater in my truck with a small generator you could either put in the bed of your truck or in the neck of your trailer. Works very well. Costs about $5 to heat the interior of my truck vs a hotel. I’ve had no issues heating my truck can into the single digits.
Thats very smart sir! Thank you! What space Heater do you have? Do you run the extension cord through the back window? Can you run AC as well during the summer?
The space heater brand is “ give best” bought on Amazon. It’s got 2 heat settings. Low is 750 watts and hi is 1500w. I’ve always run 750 watt setting. I power it with a Honda 2000. I’m switching to a predator 3500 ( harbor freight tools) because the Honda will only run for about 6hrs before running out of gas. The predator should run about 11hrs on 2 gallons of gas or so. I run the thin power cord from the heater pinched in the passenger door seal. The larger ext cord I just lay on the running board and up and over the truck bed. A/c a guy has a TH-cam video on. I’m going to try that soon. Make sure whatever space heater you buy has a thermostat dial on it. That way it will turn on and off as needed on its own
@Olson's In Overdrive Thank you so much for this insight man means a lot to me! I prefer sleeping in the truck most of the time too. Feels more like home.
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTech me too. I sleep better in the truck. Hate hotels
Professional! (tarp job) I didn’t know you live out there. What city are you in?
Thanks man that load taught me a whole lot. I've only ever run like a tarped pallet size load, so really nothing. I run out of Colorado Springs. I'm looking forward to watching your new videos. Glad to see you didn't call it quits I thought for sure you were done after that load you brought to steamboat. I avoid Anything west of I25 until mid April if I can. Those mountains are a pain unless it's summer.
A good place for those tarps are plastic bins from Home Depot can secure it and not damage it from weather so it lasts lot longer
Did you do that three hours on duty? Just curious I’m thinking about getting into the hot shot myself. I bought a brand new truck should be here in a couple weeks.
I did it off duty. If the truck isn't running, it's all off duty for me. I just left the business. I hope you plan on running CDL because you won't make it non cdl in this current market.
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTech yes sir I currently run 53 foot drive-van I live in New York but I’m always running to Oregon, Washington, California and everything in between. Yeah I’m definitely struggling here now even the business I’m in I don’t own the truck I lease it. But the lease agreements really good one I pay nothing on the truck. Trailer and I mean nothing no fuel no insurance no repairs but in exchange for that I only get $.75 a mile which brings me to a weekly income of roughly on average 2000 some weeks I can do 3K gross so yeah, I made some mistakes for sure. I made some decisions when I was angry I don’t recommend that I bought a brand new truck which was beautiful dodge truck, heavy duty, 1 ton Dooley brand new 23 has a towing capacity of 33,000 pounds I think give it take a couple pounds I just got financing for a trailer 35 foot deck with another 5 feet ramp that’s like 26,000 bucks plus but yes I would be doing CDL and things are getting tough all around
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTech i’ll be honest with you I make decent amount of money on a weekly basis so I have considered not buying the trailer going forward with the hot shot and just staying where I’m at and writing out this wave because I know I can make on average a minimum of 1500 a week with no expenses and obviously I can go up to 3K so I thought in the beginning I could do better than that and hot shot. I really didn’t examine or do the proper research prior to making the decision to move forward. Like I said, I did some things out of anger, so there’s pros and cons everywhere. I’m not afraid to work I guess that’s a benefit the only thing I’m concerned about is sleeping in the truck in the summertime and in the winter time how do you stay? Cool, winter time I figure I’ll just buy a small generator and get a oil filled electric heater. I think that would be sufficient to keep me warm in the winter and in the summertime. I looked into some air conditioning units that are actually pretty cool, but I don’t know how efficient
Zero breeze Mark two AC unit it’s about 1500 bucks
Do you have an email or something? I would like to send you some pictures of my Grandpa's truck when he worked hotshot back in the late 90's hauling doubles with a fully loaded trailer. Man I love seeing this!
Hi! Do you do private direct hot shot trucking? I may be buying a used garbage truck and need it transported from Indianapolis to San Diego port. I'm just trying to get quotes and price out shipping. Let me know if this is something you are able to do :)
Sorry man I don't run that lane and refuse to go into California. Probably plan for about 4-5 dollars a mile on your cost to move it at a minimum. Especially going into California and to a port.
I need to know about the 5h Bloomer trailer. Did you have a roll of 6/7 way wire on hand to make the doubles harness, and how did you come up with a length that will suit multiple uses?
I carry a 35 foot 7 way harness. I disconnect the brake wire at both ends because the brake gain won't match on the trailers which can cause serious safety problems. I won't pull doubles if the main trailer is over 30 foot long.
Hey Tyler, how’s it going what size trailer are you running and is it non CDL. Getting ready to buy a trailer just getting into Hotshot.Been pulling RV’s no money any suggestions would be helpful.
I ran a 28 footer so I could carry 10500 lbs and work local. Would recommend at least a 36 footer if you run OTR. If you can legally run a 40 I would but be careful don't exceed 65 foot total length unless your truck has no bed or has a hotshot CM bed
That portable toilet was a shitty load 😂
What we used to do when I had a delivery job was also go around the trap load with rope after the tie downs so it’s doesn’t blow around in the road
I kinda want to get into part-time hotshoting. While keeping my full-time job. Non-CDL, do you think it's possible to make a profit that way
To be honest, you will not be able to profit from doing it part-time. The insurance kills you, not including everything else. I will attach a link to my video about it. It's a very common misconception, even I thought to try it part-time until I got into it. I love channel name BTW badass!
th-cam.com/video/LloZdpRgbWs/w-d-xo.html
@Tyler the Hotshot Hauler thank you for the reply and your opinion. Also, thanks for the compliment. My Instagram and tik tok are the same names. gotta keep it consistent
What the a portapoty joke hahaha
Bro when it hits you gotta do what you gotta do
I'm in Denver CO and I've been wanting to start hot shot but don't know where to start I'd love to pick your brain how can I get ahold of you if that's ok?
You can email me at
wethepeoplehotshothauling@gmail.com
Please reply to this comment. If you send me an email, they often get lost in spam.
Not being a CDL driver how do you pull doubles.
Don't get caught haha. There is a legal loophole for pulling anything considered as an RV from the factory to dealer to pull up to triples. But for flats with loaded dumps I would be screwed. There is not a law that says you can't pull doubles without a CDL but my GCWR of 26k would be exceeded from the second trailer. The answer is take back roads like those outlaw livestock and grain haulers in the 389 peterbilts.
I've never been stopped or bothered they even let me go through a portable they asked me if i had a CDL last year. I said no they said have a good day. Not sure why I thought I was screwed. I saw 8 troopers on the way back for this load haha 😅😅
You’ll still the doubles/triples endorsement on your cdls or license
@Kali Messiah if you have a cdl, you must have the endorsement. However, there is no law that says you can't pull doubles without a CDL. However your GCWR would be exceeded. There is loop holes in place for moving trailers considered RVs from the factory to dealers to cover you up to triples without a CDL.
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTech daaammmnnn that’s dope as hell. Bro that was the main reason for me getting my CDL so I can pull double/triples.
Yeah he's leaving out too many expenses like cost of truck trailer commercial insurance tolls if he pays for load boards or anything like that ongoing expenses have it easily take another $1,500 off that amount. Week. Unless he has his truck paid off. Insurance is usually never paid off unless you pay it all up front
I was talking about direct expenses from the week. Not planned or any other expenses. Recurring expenses is a whole different ball game. All equipment and insurance is paid in full.
doubles like that are also illegal. the 2nd trailer cannot rest on the first trailer. You must have a dolly
Why do you take a 30 min break if you don't have a CDL
Because I still have to follow all hours of service. I have to follow everything except IFTA and drug consortium.
Doubles are not dangerous, nor are they impossible to back up. I run a super b-train at times. I back them down subdivision roads for deliveries.
Doubles are much more dangerous for added trailer sway and the added Crack the whip effect.
I've only seen one person in my life who could actually back doubles up. Kudos to you I couldn't imagine that shitshow for deliveries.
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTech I'll totally agree with you on that. You definitely have to be a smoother driver.
B trains are different from doubles connected via ball hitch. Fifth wheels minimize lateral swaying, ball hitches dont, they allow movement in all directions which allcan give way to swaying and fishtailing. Not to mention, ball hitches are much smaller than fifth wheels.
@redneck826 there is no difference as far as sway. Hitch strength doesn't matter as long as your under the recommended/rated weight. It's weight distribution that will be a major factor on sway. Super btrains can be crazy if you mess up on where you put the weight
Bro thanks for the videos but please u guys have to stop taking CHEEP dollar loads it’s only going to get worse for u
It is 2500 or 3500 ram
2500. I wish I would have got a derated 3500 SRW to give me that stronger rear axle by 1000 lbs
Only 30% of what you gross is actually yours to spend after expenses and equipment these youtube hot shots love to post their gross but never their expenses
If you watched the entire video I say that exactly. Direct expenses are about 33% I leave 34% in the business and take 33% in a perfect scenario.
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTechyes that’s 1500 on average a week…i was driving a flatbed hauling agriculture machines local home daily paid vacations, medical insurance and my take home was 1200-1400 every week…videos like this reeled me into this sh!t 🕳️ hotshot industry because youu guys emphasize on your gross amd make it seem all dandy…emphasize on the expenses so no one else gets tricked into this low paying over worked industry I suggest you get your CDL license and get a local job pretty much same pay zero expenses zero liability for compliance or maintenance and home with wife n kids
@JS-90.S Left hotshot after a year of struggling. Went back to being a heavy diesel tech 80k a year working 4 days a week, much better lifestyle for sure.
That’s a risky move to tow a double with no cdl. Honestly it’s not worth the driving out of class ticket and being put out of service.
I've been fortunate. They have stopped me twice in the last year. Once they saw it was from a factory to dealer, they didn't care. They checked my trailer connections and said good job for hooking shit up correctly and sent me on my way. The load in this video was Hella illegal, especially on combination length and pretty certain I was overweight. I'm glad i didn't get stopped on this load it would have been bad news bears. Usually, for doubles, I just move a stock combo trailer with a small bumper pull behind. There are loopholes for pulling trailers that classify as an RV up to triples as long as your total weight doesn't exceed 26k without a CDL
I came back here to tell you that you were right. A Trooper stopped me yesterday he told Me that he sees Me all the time and wanted to check if I had a cdl. Long story short he could have destroyed me with fines, violations, and 60 days out of service. I won't be doing doubles again till I get my CDL.
@@TylerTheFieldServiceTech glad it worked out ok for you. Not all troopers are out to hurt the trucking industry.
@@Jddlincoln Another lesson learned to grow from. Just gotta save up to get that CDL setup sometime in the future.
Do you have your own rights and authority
I have my own authority. Not sure what you mean by rights.
Hope the cat got out, or he/she is in for a long ride. Lol
Haha yeah I had to find her and put her in the house before I secured the tarp. She always wants to help me do everything haha
In house security.😃
500 bucks to go 400 miles. Not worth it
It is worth it when I could pick it up at 830 am and drive to pick up the second load because I couldn't pick up the second load until 11am and it only was only 9 miles off the interstate I was already on to head back to Kansas to drop it.
Including the deadhead, it was an additional 100 miles total to move it. 400 dollars for 100 miles is a good rate last time I checked. 4 bucks a mile. Even accouting for my fuel mpg loss of 3 mpg for the high profile. When you add in the other factors, it makes sense. Regularly, I would have never touched that load.
Always great 👍🏻 content man …. Hey I’m in the elevator business I’m a mechanic and I want to give this hotshot a try …I scale about 130k a year … Can I scale something like that or more in this business.?? Thanks in advance
@JOSE MOYA Stay with your current career haha 100% honest. I appreciate the nice compliment. To leave a job like that to work 60 plus hours a week and maybe gross 150k a year before expenses. Stick with what you got. Much better option
What I better reason why you don’t have a CDL probably can you can’t drive a semi lol
I love attempted insults that make zero sense. They're always riddled with misspelling and failed grammar. There are plenty of people with CDLs who can't drive a semi to save their life. FYI... Lol
@Tyler the Hotshot Hauler I tried to read his comment, and I have no idea what he was trying to say
These TH-cam hotshot dudes have hidden resentment towards actual CDL drivers
You said you have 3k left over …not really I k is you either have your truck payment,trailer payment or insurance payment amd fuel set aside for the next week in reality you only have about 1500-1800 left over that’s what I was making as a w2 employee semi driver
@JS-90.S 3k left over after direct expenses. I would dump half of that in the business and keep the other half in a perfect scenario.
Nobody gets rich in Hotshot even if you're grossing 6k a week its not enough. I left hotshot and went back to being a diesel mechanic. Got tired of not making any money for how hard I was working.
So to start I'm gonna need a truck and a trailer ??
Yeah unless you got hired on as a driver for someone
How to contact u to have a conversation
Sorry, man, I don't do private communication. People don't compensate you for your time or even bother to say thanks, so I quit doing it a long time ago.