Stradivari vs Guarneri (Oistrakh's tone production vs Heifetz's tone production)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- ~Stradivari vs Guarneri
Tone production through the emphasis on overtones vs tone production through string penetration.
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~ The Sibelius Violin Concerto's Recording History (1934-1968)
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~ Strad vs Guarneri PART 2
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~ Strad vs Guarneri PART 3
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Vladimir Dyo's Library (PDF downloads)
Sauret-Kogan Cadenza (plus cadenzas by Kreisler, Wilhelmj, Sauret 1912, Kubelik)
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Heinz Provost - Intermezzo
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Easy cadenza to Mozart Violin Concerto No. 3
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Tchaikovsky/Auer - Violin Concerto
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The Application of Bel Canto Principles to Violin Performance (monograph)
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#stradivari #guarneri #strad #oistrakh #heifetz #tchaikovsky
You can’t compare the two. The quality of the recordings are different.
You are correct in that the recording quality differs. However, the physics of Oistrakh's and Heifetz's tone production have different applications, which can be compared.
@@vladimirdyo7301 true. It seems that Heifetz’s more direct and strict interpretations suit the Guarneri better.
@@vladimirdyo7301The physical difference is mostly because of the style of their playing. The instrument isn't really the cause of the style they learnt to play
The quality of the artists are very different too. Heifetz is the goat. Also Guarneri > Strad, Everyday
Consider the bow hold, and the heavier, stiffer bow used by Oistrakh - doubtless a factor - Oistrakh refused to let up on his ribbon of pressure, perfectly chosen bow placement for the luscious sound.
Oistrakh's was the Strad of all Strads. But so few people understand that a great deal of this credit goes to the master Luthier who made that bridge and set the location of the bridge, sound post, tailpiece, etc. It is an art to properly set up a violin.
Agreed. Kudos to luthiers who make performers sound their best.
I’ve heard that Oistrakh’s Strad was not a particularly outstanding example.
@davidbrickman4880 depends in what respect we're talking. Measurements? Workmanship? Period?
Regardless, that indeed emphasizes the work of the luthier even more.
@@davidbrickman4880 to my knowledge it was a very unique instrument in a way that only David Oistrakh could find the key to it, when Igor (his son) performed on it later (and he was a very fine violinist) it didn’t sound as good or even close. In my observation only Milstein was very close in generating as much overtones as Oistrakh. In my opinion that was the key to Oistrakh’s “Marsick.” Oistrakh developed his unmatched golden ratio between bow speed, pressure, sound point, and amounts of bows. I would compare it to a delicate and elegant (yet powerful) figure skating on a very thin ice and not braking it.
None of his students knew how to do it (did he keep it secret?) Gidon Kremer has a similar approach to tone production, but he is not even close (too much air in the sound).
David Oistrakh’s Strad had the most uniquely identifiable voice - incredibly beautiful
Ah, its the strad, anybody playing that violin would sound incredibly beautiful. How can someone be THAT ignorant…?
@@leonardoiglesias2394did he say that the strad was the only element ?
@@JeanDeLaCroix_ its IMPOSSIBLE to recognize a violin. Its very possible to recognize a violinist playing very different violins. Keep believing in THE INSTRUMENTS.
I play a Nicola Gagliano and a Pressenda since many years.
I played violins which cost 2000 euros too. You will never be able to say what violin I am playing.
@@leonardoiglesias2394 well I heard several concert where the concept was to play on multiple instruments and guess what violin it was. Although I can agree that there wasn't a immense difference, we were able to say which was the strad (and it's not just me, the audience could). And I do play cello, the different instruments all have a personal voice and a different sound, though off course the musician makes 90% of it.
Nonsense to compare. There was a story; that in one of his classes, a student said to Heifetz that it was unfair to complain about his sound because the student wasn't playing a famous old violin. Heifetz took the student's violin, and to the class, Heifetz still sounded like Heifetz. It's not the violin that you hear, it is the violinists connection to their instruments.
Heifetz would sound like heifetz playing a poor violin. There is absolutely everything to do with the quality of instruments - why on earth would we violinists invest thousands in quality instruments otherwise???
Now I have to listen to the whole concerto two times tonight. ❤️
Oh yes!
Most beautiful violins played by master violinist
Oistrakh used all steel strings, while Heifetz used gut on the lower three strings (bare gut on the A, wrapped gut on G and D). This accounts for a significant amount of the difference in sound. Also, it's likely that different microphones were used on the two recordings. The bow also affects the sound, but it was said that both Oistrakh and Heifetz often used German bows, so there may be little difference there.
Heifetz recorded Mendelssohn concerto twice, using his Dolphin Stradivarius at 1949 and David Guarneri at 1959, these two records sounds very different.
This is Tchaikovsky concerto
Do you know the recording equipment and the hall in which the two recordings were made? Hahahahahaahah! Ignorants!
@@yangsungsic9087oh well, also russian, who cares……
@@leonardoiglesias2394 That would be the most idiotic remark ever.
Art transcends politics or religion.
@@littleredwitch oh!!!! Take lessons on irony.
When it comes to the Tchaikovsky concerto although Heitfetz’s playing is astonishing I’ll go for Oisktrakh’s tone production all day long. I just love the sound he made on the violin! Never thought about the different approaches in tone production though. Also, I think the Strad way of tone production suited Oistrakh to perfection. Interesting comparison!
Можно только наслаждаться исполнительским мастерством обоих величайших скрипачей, существует некая незаметная граница, преодолев которую ты становишься великим мастером и здесь нет ни вторых, ни первых, а есть величайшее искусство воплощенное совершенно разными людьми, каждый со своими индивидуальными особенностями исполнительства и интерпретации, что безусловно насыщаем музыку новыми яркими красками и интересным содержанием и доставляет ценителям музыки истинное наслаждение скрипичным искусством.
I like the overtones,I also appreciate the the very clean tones from Heifetz
And also, you are hearing these two recordings played in different acoustics and using two different microphones. The first sample is recording the hall's reverb (which is not "overtones") where the second is not. It isn't the violins making that effect.
Excellent
Beatiful
Two differents mens
Two diff personas
Two diff Italian violins
Two diff bows
Two diff rosins
2 diff concert halls
2 diff equipement of recording
2 diff sets of strings, heifetz gamut tricolore, Oistrack Pirastro Oliv + Eudoxa
Heifetz no use sholder rest
Oistrack uses
Its impossível compere two giants of the violin history from movies. Only in the concerthalls you see the true…
2 greatest in 2 different style..
Exactly..! LOVE FROM BHARAT 🌹🌹🌹 - Shrirang Kshatriya Violin And Sitar Student, Mumbai Maharashtra Bharat.
Two very different playing styles and bow strokes, Both sound great because great players play them. wonderful
Esattamente!!!!
@@Universe2929 i love sitar playing and also the accompanying tabla.
Good for you to learn the violin.
Wishing you all the very best. 🍀
Divine. Both.
The only accurate way to compare the tone of two different instruments, as stated in the primary title of this video, is to have one artist play the same excerpt in the same environment on both instruments (having the same level of familiarity with the two instruments) back to back. Any knowledgeable player knows this.
All this video really does is compare the recording/performance of one top tier artist to another.
Yes and no. Agree with you when it comes to just one comparison video on Youtune but If you listen to enough recordings of the two artists you can beginning to recognise the differences in their sound/tone production and its uniqueness and even to a lesser degree the differences between their two violins.
The overiding difference is in the playing, not the instrument. Both instruments can project though.
Heifetz is phenomenal !!!!
Absolutely❤
Best of all time!!!!
I love how one cannot just say "Guar" Xd
XD
Or GdG 😂
Some people call it Gesu
Gets too close to Guad
Let's abbreviate it more... Gua.
Gua vs Strad 😂
Страдивари имеет более объемный звонкий глубокий звук. Гварнери - глубокий, но более мягкий звук
Of course, the acoustics of the hall is also very important
I've actually played a Stadivarius owned by Nathan Milstein. It sounded absolutely incredible. It played like nothing I've ever played. But the one complaint I had, the fingerboard was super tiny, I have very small hands too. I felt very uncomfortable playing it.
When you say tiny, do you mean narrow?
@@FodorPupil yes the neck is very narrow.
@James Boone Are you familiar with James Hoffman, the great pianist and what he did? I wonder if Milstein had the neck narrowed on purpose.
now modern violin can have same song for 3000/80 000 $ ....but own a 300 years item of art cannot be replace ! but blind test are really withouth polemics.
Increíble la stradivarius
It’s depends, sometimes some guarneri are better than some straudivari, Guarneri and Straudivari were humans, don’t forget
Definitely so, and vice versa. A lot depends on the performer's style of playing. Not all instruments suit all performers. But these two particular instruments sounded best in the hands of these masters. It is said that the Oistrakh's 1705 "Marsick" Strad doesn't sound well in the hands of other violinists.
@@vladimirdyo7301 I was lucky enough to hear Oistrakh live as a kid. The sound was sumptuous and made a deep impression. The man was a genius - for the Romantic repertoire there was no-one better. I expect you could have given him any decent student-level instrument and it would have still have sounded exceptional. It's 90% the player, I think, and only 10% the fiddle and bow...
@@tullochgorum6323 certainly, true artists sound themselves on any instrument.
Onde tem o vídeo completo por favor?
Guarneri ❤
It's not only different violins... It's two different performances. Oistrakh was sharing opinion like his Strad is not an easy one to play... Nevertheless his performance of Tchaikovsky concert is absolutely outstanding, and his Strad sounds just perfect... Guarneri sounds differently and also fantastic, I especially love it in hands of Leonid Kogan and Yehudi Menuhin
Best Brilliant vs Dark violin sound comparison.
I always thought the qualities were opposite of what is said here. For a real comparison the Bach concerto for 2 violins with Grumieux and Krebbers on Philips. One plays a strad the other garnering. Listen to the slow movement. Can you tell them apart?
Yes, Grumiaux plays the first violin and brings out more overtones from his Strad than Krebbers does from his Guarneri. If it were Kreisler or Ysaÿe, you would hear a much richer tone from the Guarneri than what Krebbers delivers.
...los dos mas grandes violinistas de todos los tiempos
Guila Bustabo! and Viktor Tretjakov!
Heifetz plays more matter of fact, Oistrakh is more sentimental.
Não adianta muito comparar assim, com dois violinistas diferentes, uma comparação válida seria Oistrakh ou Heifetz tocando a mesma peça num Strad e num Guarneri, porque a maior diferença no som é o próprio violinista, e não no violino em si; uma comparação válida seria o álbum "What About This, Mr. Paganini?", by Saschko Gawriloff, onde ele toca um Guarneri e um Strad, além de outros violinos.
Orange vs Apple, what’s the point???😞
Both of them....Both genius at the violin!
Creo que hay muchos aspectos a considerar antes de una comparación al sonido de dos instrumentos de gran calidad como en este caso. A juzgar por el vídeo creo que el Stradi hace honor a su fama en sonoridad y proyección súperando ampliamente al Guarneri. Pero sería bueno compararlos en igualdad de condiciones y tener en cuenta los aspectos de relevancia tales como : la acústica y tamaño del lugar en que se está usando, el tipo de cuerdas, la brea, el arco, la temperatura, la humedad hambiente, todo tiene mucho que ver. El uso de mentonera o cojinillo, ya que la capacidad de absorción de vibraciones que tiene la elasticidad de la cara, no es la misma que la capacidad que tiene el corcho que se encuentra muchas veces entre la mentonera y la madera. Parece increíble pero hasta la presencia de cortinas y muebles en la sala cambiaría por completo la calidad de sonido. Y otro factor no menos importante es el intérprete 😅
Very interesting. Sadly, as a non-violinist, full understanding of this will always be just beyond my grasp...
Strad 😍
Interessante ma poco affidabile per dare giudizi assoluti.
Puoi confrontare i due strumenti nella stessa sala, con lo stesso esecutore e sistema di registrazione
Great
What the heck is string penetration?
It's when you apply a significant amount of pressure, as if the bow penetrates the string, yet without producing a scratchy tone.
@@vladimirdyo7301 Thank you. IOW, typical Heifetz.
I think it's more the way each of them play, than the instrument
in tweeters Strad is the best.. Guarneri king of expression in bass....copy of great quslity give same results. form have action on songs
Who can find difference in 20 second with low quality of sound!? RIDICULOUS!
What piece of music is this from?
차이코프스키 바이올린 협주곡 D장조
Oistrakh vibra, heifetz bela
Different quality of recordings. There is no way to compare these.
Stradivari recording equipment is better
Es como comparar un Steinway y un Bechstein. Son maravillosos y diferentes.
different recording qualities, instruments sound different because they just have diffrrent voices, typically only the performer will ever notice a difference like that (they are both very high quality instruments)
"Emphasis on overtones" and "string penetration" mean what, exactly? Sounds like two ideas you just made up.
King David's vibrato is slower and a little wider maybe.
O ambiente não é o mesmo. Quero ver a comparcao no relente. Nabru . Ai sim
it is not proper to compare who is better who is more brilliant and has edge because they are two different great fiddlers
The comparison is about different tone production techniques. Some prefer Oistrakh's style, while others prefer Heifetz's.
Strad oistrakh ❤❤❤❤
Russian players also used a steel A string. 2 steel + 2 gut.
I did read that Heifetz used a covered G string, the D and A strings were just pure gut, and he got his steel E string from Germany.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
I mean Yes and No. I can tell you Guarnieri do need more pressure than most other ancient instruments. But yea you can't really compare these two, since the difference in thecnique is too big and recordigs also are completely different from the USSR and USA in the same period
David kicks,ass. Celibidache was right about David. and right about Heifetz too
GUARNIERI ❤️
Guarneri is the best!
Silvery vs blunted sharpness
Oistrakh's sound was warmer; his rich tonality, more emotionally expressive.
Heifetz' sound -- at least in this brief sample -- drier and flatter...🤔💥😖
Too much reverb on Ostk recording imposible to compare
Strad ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Heifetz said he preferred Guarneri due to more robust and manly tone.
Did the Guarnieri sound a little thinner?
Oistrakh's overtones give lots of volume to the tone and it does seem that Heifetz's Guarneri sounds thinner. Perhaps we would have different perception hearing them in a concert hall. It's also likely that Heifetz's audio was recorded in the studio and then synchronized with the image, as opposed to Oistrakh's live recording in the concert hall.
I just know I can’t afford either 🤷🏻♀️
Guarneri tutta la vita ❤
Чего говорить? - первый при всей разности записей всё же богаче звуком - особенно, на басах. Это и ежу понятно.
私はアイザック・スターンが好きなので、「いぶし銀のヴァルネリ」派！
Also, take into account that Heifetz had the Russian bow hold, whereas Oistrakh had the Franco-Belgian bow hold.
Stradvarius os melhores
Wrong comparison, mics, amplifiers, mastering, acoustics, reverb.....everything is different.
Heifetz
❤strad ❤❤❤
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉Guarnerius🎉🎉
Oistrakh above the rest
Little men giving opinions on two of the greatestest masters of all time😂
Strad Strad Strad Strad Strad Strad
Ойстрах!
what piece is this
This is Tchaikovsky’s Violin Concerto in D major, 1st movement.
Нельзя их сравнивать!
Always abuot hands, never about violins anyway, Strad or Del Gesu..Sorry Guys😀
我还是更喜欢大卫奥伊斯特拉赫的斯特拉迪瓦里琴声！
Certainly! These are two giants in the violin realm who achieved an absolute mastery of the art in their own way. With totally different approaches in tone production and expression principles. Some love Oistrakh’s style while others prefer Heifetz’s style or enjoy both.
@@vladimirdyo7301 两个人的风格我非常喜欢，我只是更喜欢大卫的斯特拉迪瓦里
Stradivari❤
Heifetz had a slight accidental pizzicato
Guarneri🎻🎵🎶💪
Guarneri and Heifetz better 😉
Stradivari🎻🏆
È un paragone poco veritiero,i due ambienti di registrazione sono totalmente diversi
Es absurdo comparar a dos grandes violinistas tan diferentes
nonsense
Невыгодное для Маэстро Хейфица и скрипки Гварнери сравнение.
Просто, как подмастерье по сравнению с М. Ойстрахом и скрипкой Страдивари.
Здесь М. Ойстрах во всей силе : сочный, пронзительный, отпущенный звук и с точностью до наоборот у другого "мастера".
The recordings are different and not realistic. Reverb verses dry. Not fair.
Any recordings are unfair as they do not capture the full essence of a live performance, especially with these great artists. Yet, it is still possible to distill their tone production technique.
Heifetz is quite a bit better. I feel uncomfortable saying that but he's just on another level, maybe two levels better.
strad
Oistrakh had fat fingers.
I feel like heifetz should have used a strad
He had both, but preferred Guarneri.
@@vladimirdyo7301 strad suits his playing way better
They both are product of Russin violin school...0istrah spend his lifetime in thriving musical world of the Soviet Union. Heifetz just lived in Beverly Hills
This video makes no sense and it's the player that produces the tone. Not the instrument. The difference is right arm technique.