Hmm.. So after looking through the comments, the prevailing theory seems to be that the Ancients split into two groups. Some went to Angel Island, but the rest stayed on the Starfall Islands and quickly died out. The remaining Ancients, however, had their bodies and DNA forcibly corroded and mutated overtime due to the ambient radiation of the Master Emerald (which the Chaos Emeralds may have led them to on Angel Island), eventually turning them into the Chao. At some point, a Chaos Chao came into contact with the Master Emerald, and was transformed into its guardian and "God of Destruction." Considering the Master Emerald is implied to be sentient to a degree (not completely though), the stone itself may have done this on purpose, and in the process, restored some of the Ancients' corrupted DNA. However, while he may resemble his ancestors, Chaos is clearly different. His body is made up of actual, morphing liquid, he is granted immortality, and his connection to the Master Emerald caused his transformations to resemble the newly made shrine it was connected to. Remember, the Ark's Core in SA2 was built like the shrine to harness the power of the Chaos Emeralds. So assuming the Ancients made the shrine, they may have done so with the intent to link the Master Emerald to the Chaos Emeralds. And if the ME was connected to the shrine from that point onward, it explains why Chaos has elements resembling the shrine in its transformed state (because it mutated Chaos to be its guardian, and the shrine was now associated with it).
@@TheRealMightyEmperor True.. then again, Eggman did say they mutated "over eons", so perhaps the original Ancients on the island DID all die out, leaving behind their Koko charms, but their increasingly mutated _descendents_ became the Chao? I dunno.. that's assuming Eggman was strictly referencing the Ancients on the Starfall Islands when he said they all "died out within a generation," or perhaps he simply considered the Chao "relatives" of the Ancients, and just meant their original species was gone within a generation. Though.. that last bit doesn't make too much sense, considering it's implied they evolved into the Chao, which means SOME generations must've been born. Which log came first? It's a stretch, but if he only had Sage run that diagnostic AFTER believing they all swiftly died out, it's possible he may have just been mistaken before (hence the contradictory information). Edit: Honestly though, I don't get why I'm jumping through hoops to explain away these holes, lol. I guess it’s just sort of fun picking it apart.
@@DLxxx perhaps the reason for that they were wiped within a generation, was that the ancients who were yet to be born ended up being more apt to be affected by radiation, biologically speaking babies tend to be easier to have their body structure modified since they haven't had their bodies fully formed yet , perhaps the next generation of ancients were mutated too much while still in their fetus form (assuming they had one), however to get to the level of mutation of a Chao it probably took at least another generation or two, however already in the first generation could perhaps be enough for them to become a barely recognizable species.
@@willbrgamer5137 Right, that's sort of what I was thinking in my reply. Eggman did they were mutated in a NEW species, so even if the Chao are the mutated descendents of the Ancients, they're so radically different from eachother that you could still say the Ancients effectively died off.
One of the flashback cutscenes explains that if they lose against The End, they would send a group with the Chaos Emeralds over to the Master Emeralds. It's implied that these were the Ancients that built Sky Sanctuary and possibly other ruins on Angel Island, but they were slowly mutated into Chao by some kind of radiation. Hope that clears things up.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I think it's safe to assume that the radiation which mutated them came from the Master Emerald, but it's still a mystery. I think they intentionally left it open so they can revisit it later in another game or perhaps a DLC.
@@Galewind. According to the Sonic News News Network wiki, JP manual for Sonic 3 states that the Master Emerald "radiates" the same energies as the Chaos Emerald. That can't really be the case anymore, but it at least establishes that the Master Emerald does radiate energy.
@@boneneedle3360 it could be the moraine and other being from Sonics world have a natural resistance to it. Having developed on a world with the master emerald being there, polluting the world with low levels of chaos energy when everything was still forming. But to species without this natural defense long term expose can be a disaster.
Sorry I haven't finished the video yet; I think Eggman is referencing that The Ancients themselves evolved or mutated into Chao; Which explains the DNA aspect of Chaos. The Mutation from the Master Emerald reverted Chaos genetics back into a Primitive state... Basically de-evolutionized him.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor yeah it's pretty difficult to explain as Eggman doesn't say that The Ancients mutated into Chao. Instead he kept it vague for some reason in the Memos.
Chao are a super adaptable species. They take on forms and attributes from other animals and even their caretakers which fits with the Chao Garden mechanics from the Adventure Games. (Remember most of the ancients could not adapt to Earths environment putting an evolutionary pressure on them). A Chaos Chao with Master Emerald radiation reveals its primordial form of its evolution hence Chaos resembling the ancients but since Chaos is enhanced by Chaos Energy, it gains new abilities like Metamorphosis with each emerald obtained even to the level of Perfect Chaos. Perhaps thats what Eggman meant about radiation. Chaos Energy. The Black Arms (specifically Black Doom) demonstrated Chaos Control and knew about the Chaos Emeralds seemingly for a long time (making the Space Fairing Emerald route make sense). Shadows abilities stem from Black Doom (Gerald sampled his blood) hence why he doesn't need an external power source to produce Chaos Energy unlike the Biolizard. It's by blood apparently. The evolution route is my favorite one at the moment. I'm just glad they are getting back to lore and that there is something of substance to talk about.
So many aspects of Frontiers lead to greater conversations. This has been missing from the Sonic series for a long time. There is still a bit more that needs to be done, but Frontiers was a good first step.
I always just assumed the Ancients evolved into the Chao in an attempt to adapt to their new home, and whatever happened to Chaos reawakened it's much more alien like atributes, while still retaining it's Chao characteristics.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor if the fact chao are native to angel island and the ancients fleed to angel island and they are the ancestors of the chao. And that's what eggman meant.
So since you touched on the Ancients connection to the structures of Angel Island, it should be worth noting that the ruins on Starfall Island had pinball machines. Meaning that mysterious casino in Sonic 3 & Knuckles that we've been scratching our heads over for years, may have actually been built by them after all 😆 And looking back at Sky Santurary Zone, those red teleporters (along with the ones in Hidden Palace Zone), have a slight visual resemblance to the effects of when a character is transported into Cyberspace. Specifically in the Knuckles prologue. So perhaps the Ancients built them as well? In which case, perhaps the mural in Hidden Palace was shown to them via a vision from the Master Emerald (since SA1 shows that it can freely give people visions, and Sonic Rivals tells us it exist simultaneously at all points in time, so it would know about Sonic and Eggman's clash in the future), and they made the mural as a warning for future inhabitants? I dunno.. It’s an interesting thought experiment, but the idea seems quite plausible I think. What are you're thoughts?
The ancients almost certainly had a hand in the mysteries of Angel island. They may even be why it can float. The warp spheres of Sky Sanctuary likely were made by them for similar reasons. As for the Mural Vision, perhaps? I always saw that as Echidna prophecy though.
I don't doubt that a lot of story content was cut from the game as its apparently obvious the "budget" ran out by the end of the 3rd island. The information we were given also brings up more question than answers like the master emerald origins and how do the temple of gaias fit in all of this if the chaos emeralds originated from outer space. Unless more information comes out, I don't think the story did a good job explaining a lot of these things but I'm at least glad Sonic lore seems to be a priority within Sonic Team now.
From what I remember the Gaia temples look similar to sky sanctuary zone except for the color of the materials used, maybe the ancients built them in the brief period between coming to earth and dying? (yeah I know this post is a week old)
My head canon is that the gaia temples just so happen to have 7 because of how the planet splits into 7 pieces. My theory is that a temple was placed there so the master emerald could be put into the temple no matter where it happened to be when the planet splits. And that putting the master emerald on any of the alters would put the planet back together since its more powerful than the chaos emeralds. And the recharging of the Emerald was just a side effect caused by eggman firing their power into the earth so it was just them reabsorbing their power.
12:05 That’s wrong, it was mentioned in the flashback on on the 3rd island after beating the boss that the backup plan was to relocate to Angel Island through the portal. Of course some effort would have been made to rebuild Starfall island but the entire remaining population would have left eventually due to mental scars. Why would you want to come back to rebuild on a graveyard? Eggman didn’t know about the Backup plan like Sonic was exposed to. It was hidden behind locks that Sage didn’t want opened cause it would have released THE END, so he’s only working on the assumption that they all just died out, not evacuated to Angel Island (what they actually did)
Just a quick non-Sonic clarification, plenty of people / cultures have and continue to rebuild over lost/destroyed territory even if they are a graveyard (This is happening right now), so it isn't unreasonable for the ancients to do the same.
I think the answers are these: Chao fundamentally corroded ancients. Eggman doesn't say it directly, but by saying their DNA corroded into a completely diffrent speicies after mentioning Chaos means that he is most definitely talking about the chao as to get from ancients to chaos, he would reasonably be taking a train stop to look at the chao. As Chaos looking like an ancient and having the same DNA wouldn't be a completely diffrent species. He would have to find some kind of reason for the DNA matching and Chaos being a mutated chao is that connection. So we have to assume some kind of radiation (that may be or not be from the Master Emerald itself) corroded the ancients DNA into being chao, and then Chaos is a chao that was mutated back to an ancient by accidental use of the Master Emerald. However he has diffent characteristics due to the DNA being so diffrent and corroded at this point and the Master Emerald's powers being unpredictable he became somewhere in between a chao and ancient, with him regaining the appearance of an ancient, but also keeping the abilities of a chao. Chao are able to mutate their body characteristics of other beings, but the mutations aren't perfect they can only change so much of their body to be that of other beings, however when they evolve they can completely change their appearance. we see this in chao gardens when raising a chao. Chaos was probably a chao that with the use of the Master Emerald super charged his ability of mutation and became an ancient through evolving (maybe he evolved while playing on the master emerald). As such with hus mutation ability he has much more control over his liquid new body than the ancients. He however has no knowledge of the ancients because at this time every ancient had evolved into the chao with no knowledge of their past. He still keeps the Chao abilities of mutation and with no real clue protects his speicies and the Master Emerald. Then finally the reason why the Chaos Emeralds change him so much and add structures to him when chaos takes them in is simply his super charged mutation ability along with a bunch of Chaos Emerald fuckery, as their energy just does what ever the fuck it wants to do sometimes.
My head cannon is over eons, like the game said, the Ancients eventually mutated into Chao which would explain Eggman saying they’re mutation would leave them “unrecognizable”. Then at some point one of the mutated Ancients turned Chao touched the Master Emerald which then brought the Chao back to a similar form to its original while also giving it extra abilities (such as being made of water, and being able to transform by absorbing the chaos emeralds). This is pretty much the only thing that makes sense to me.
Some issues I have with it are the fact that Koco husks can still be found at Sky Sanctuary, indicating at least some of the small group who went their died. Then there is the problem that if a handful of ancients did mutate into Chao, their numbers would have had been so low that the population couldn't have sustained itself.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor can't Chao like reincarnate each time they die same chaos as long as there happy their age won't kill them the mutation gave them a cursed form immortality.
I see a few clues throw into Knuckle's animation (and oddly enough the twitter take over 6???) where we see Flickies, Chao and Koco. Flickies have the ability to fly between dimensions. -Most older sonic games have the gems hidden in pocket dimensions. Chao take on the aspects of creatures they come in contact with, even just the DNA. -Chao take on animal aspects, but also sonic character aspects. Koco are living totems that absorb the regrets and last will of their Ancient creators. -The Ancients carried with them many regrets regarding their civilizations and their actions in life, but only on Starfall islands.... I don't know what any of this means, but your comment has me compiling all of this trivia trying to see if it tells a story. At the very least, we know all there of those creatures either directly affect the chaos emeralds or are affected by them and there are many more visual motifs sort of linking some of the artistic choices between the emeralds, the titans and the various critters. Heck, I'd bet money that having a chao play with and then put on a Koco mask is a writer/animator hinting at something.
Ya know, I always thought the reason the Chaos Emeralds we're important to every known civilization, mythos, and random eldritch god was cus they are space time altering gems so they can technically be important to multiple places in multiple time placements
Considering that Sonic has played around with pocket dimensions since the early days I would actually agree with this. No to the grand scale of a multiverse, but rather the ability to warp reality/time. Isn't that part in parcel the nature of chaos control?
I thought some Sonic games was a different multiverse even in the comics he can travel the multiverse, he even came across his evil twin scourge which also implies negative power in the chaos emeralds that scourge completely understands and with Sonic the positive power in the chaos emeralds that Sonic knows so well because for the games like Sonic Rush, Sonic riders even 06 are all reference even Tangled from IDW Comics is now reference so would that end the multiverse theory or imply Sonic traveled the multiverse games and all ? maybe like Sonic Prime that's supposed to be coming out lol
@@djangosouthwest6043 the games and comics use to be separate cannons with a few exceptions (brotherhood, cartoons, etc). Since IDW sonic started 5yrs ago, they have slowly started to decide what is part of a single timeline. Games and comics only (excluding Archie).
Sage says that the koco are lucky charms that the ancients wore (probably why the koco mask was on angel island), and since they just straight up stop living when the ancients' spirits leave them, I don't think the koco are actually alive themselves. The hermit koco tells sonic that 'Just like the koco, you have touched the digital dream.' So we know the koco gained the memories from cyberspace, and didn't just have them by default. This probably means the koco were formed from the cyberspace memories, since inanimate objects wouldn't be able to coincidentally roll onto portals- especially not that many of them- even after thousands of years. The chao, as covered, are probably ancients that escaped to angel island and mutated due to the master emerald (we more or less know it was the master emerald since it turned a chao into chaos, so it can definitely do the opposite.) Chaos- whilst similar- is not a complete recreation of the ancients. The reason for this is debatable but my theory is that the master emerald is very powerful, and probably just decided to make a more powerful version of the ancients (this is purely speculation.) The thing I'm most confused about is where the phantom ruby comes into play. Its powers are similar to that of cyberspace and the visual effects are near identical, but It just doesn't fit into any of the plot points well enough to have a reason to exist. I think that the ruby in mania and the one in forces are not the same: eggman claims to have made it in forces (the prototypes are proof that he is able to). In mania, you see him dig it up from the ground. My theory is that the natural phantom ruby- while powerful- wasn't 'weapon' enough to utilise against sonic, so he used it as a base to create a new one. This would explain why its abilities vary between games and why it needs a power source in forces but not mania. This, however, doesn't explain what the original ruby is unfortunately. Tl,dr: chao are not koco, koco are not living, koco are from cyberspace, I don't have a clue about the phantom ruby. Any ideas?
When it comes to the Phantom Ruby I predominantly use Mania + Infinite uses of it as the "True" version, since forces royally messes everything up like it does. Regardless I also have no idea. I previously had a theory video about this topic but obviously the game proved me wrong there. At a completely random guess I may say the Ruby is some "waste product" of cyber space that condensed into the physical ruby, and the fact it is on Angel island is because that was where the last of the Ancients were. As for the Ancient - Chao connections, I agree the Master Emerald has the most plausible explanation but I also still do not buy it. Unless we get new lore about the Master Emerald having somewhat of a conscience with goals, or a being that created it with goals, the ancients becoming Chao (which there would only have been a handful anyway) just sounds like a reach since they are supposed to die of within a generation.
@@robertwyatt3912 maybe, but it was found for the first time in two different timelines following the same event (generations) in both. If it was just a magical gem, modern eggman would have discovered it at the same moment in time as classic, but he didn't, it took him until forces whilst classic eggman had it by around triple trouble or something. I have reason to believe that it didn't exist until generations, and was created as a result of the game's events.
@@robertwyatt3912 you see, the use of the word 'must've (used as the adjective which is a synonym of 'simply'), connotes that the point of the prior comment is to imply that the ruby is a magical gem *and nothing more.* This resulted in my response being about how it is more than 'just' a magical gem, rather than agreeing that it is- indeed- magical. Sorry for the formality, but sonic the hedgehog lore is serious, important business and should be treated as such.
Seems like it could be pretty simple. When the Master Emerald transformed a chao into Chaos, it based it on a species it previously encountered. So Chaos could just be its homage to them.
The Ancients that died out as Koco/evolved into Choas likely built the shrines and Sky Sanctuary since the other Ancients on Starfall were attacked and couldn’t keep the Chaos Emeralds safe. The Ancients probably worshiped or feared some god of destruction at the shrine using the emeralds, maybe a form that the End took? Might be some sort of defense mechanism where the ME transforms a Choa into a mutated form of their ancestors while the Choas Emeralds are required to transform into a mimic of the God they worshiped from their planet, which is why Choas 0 needed Emeralds to slowly transform into the shrine and then perfect Choas. In short the off world emeralds transformed Choas 0(or “Ancients form Choas”), into their off world God that has some unknown connection to the Choas emeralds. The Master Emerald from Earth turn the Choa into a form similar to the ancients because Choa evolved from Ancients, are known to take many forms, and maybe only an “Ancient” can transform into that form known as Perfect Choas? So many mysterious things that we’ll sure to learn more about
@@ColorHero I honestly can see the ancients becoming the chao, it's just too uncomfortable. Intelligent, advanced being turning into diminutive, child like animals the you breed? That's so god damned dark and disturbing. Maybe the survivors became the water around the master emeralds shrine after they died and gave chaos its form.
Before I watch I want to say. Considering the ancients were never shown stretching or turning into shapes of water. It's fair to assume that the ancients were more akin to the chaos chao that were solid but translucent. So I think the water like abilities were granted by the master emerald when the ancients were still in the process of transforming into chao and that is why chaos looks like the middle ground for an ancient and a chao. Because he has a tail!
I feel like it's fairly obvious that Eggman implies that the ancients that left to Angel Island slowly evolved into the Chao, and Chaos' mutation somehow "de-evolved" him into something more akin to the Ancients
what I think could be the real explanation is that the ancients mutated into the chaos, and a Chao coming into contact with the master emerald somehow made the ancients corrupted DNA resurface, and the corrupted DNA made Chaos look and act more like water. If my theory is correct, that could explain why Chaos hasn't the intelligence of an ancient, and instead acts like a chao
@@TheRealMightyEmperor The Egg Memo number 11 says that the ancients DNA corroded to the point that they transformed into a new species, is it possible the chao is this new species he's talking about?
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Maybe Eggman is trying to say that the ones who didn't evolve into chaos couldn't survive? But again I think the next game will reveal more about Sonic's world (sorry for the late reply)
They shared DNA, but the ancients were unrecognizable after centuries of evolution. Unrecognizable. That means their evolved form looks incredibly different from what we know of the ancients. Chao look incredibly different than the ancients, and Chao can turn into chaos. Making Chao and chaos related. Ancients and Chao are related. So ancients became Chao. Probably due to the master emeralds energy, and coming into direct contact with the master emerald allows them to regain a version of their ancient form. There's no one in the game saying the KOKO are related to either Chao or chaos. Just the ancients themselves.
you are looking at this to broadly. The master emeralds radiation mutated the ones on angel island into chao. Time passes and for some unkown reason, the master emerald mutated a chao back into its water form. although this form was incomplete looking like both a child and an adult. The brain could be the remnants of when it was a chao.
I always figured that Chaos being related to the Ancients meant that a Chao mutating into Chaos would be their true state. And the Chao is what happens when they're no longer exposed to Chaos energy. Sort of like how we went from wolves to domesticated dogs. From powerful and vicious, to more innocent and friendly
This is how I understand it, the ME, CEs and all life were created by the actual gods (Classic era manuals, plus the mere existence of Solaris, Chip and Dark Gaia) and originally all existed on Earth. However, after some kind of event, most likely either other aliens like the Black Arms stealing them or the Gaia cycle displacing them, the CE were lost to space where they were found by the Ancients. The Ancients only assumed they originated from space due to their lack of knowledge, thus the ME catching them off guard as it needs the CEs to solely exist on Earth for the Gaia cycle. As for the species, while both forms of life do come from the Ancients, they are two separate branches, (thus the similarities) death and possessing the charm for the kokos or ME transforming the Angel Island branch for some reason and making them more spirit like in the process and thus becoming eternal via the reincarnation cycle. (at the cost of their sapience) Chaos was actually somewhat restored to serve as a guardian. (though now that I think of it the chao also serve kinda as stewards if taking the past of the Knuckles tribe and the angel and demon imagery into account) Eggman knows this because he has Chaos' bio data due to two different opportunities, both involving Froggy. (Froggy getting Chaos' tail or Metal Sonic) Considering the CEs can resurrect people and "turn wishes into power" it isn't a stretch that they can grant eternal life.
Oooh, I see! So the Ancients that went to Angel Island devolved into the Chao (with the "radiation" presumably coming from the Master Emerald), but the ones left on the Starfall Islands quickly died out during their last confrontation with "the End." And their memories were passed into their charms through some phenomenon with Cyberspace, thus creating the Koco. I suppose that much makes sense at least, though the history of the Emeralds themselves is still quite iffy for me. If they were made by the gods like the classic manuals imply, then it's not impossible that they'd all be made on Earth specifically, because we know multiple gods reside on the planet, or are connected to it in some way. Perhaps an unknown god (also connected to earth) is what created them before they were seemingly displaced? Also, if the Master Emerald can mutate an entire species THAT much simply by being in its radius, that also raises some questions about the Echidna as well. Perhaps that's why some of them have connections to the Master Emerald (like Knuckles and Tikal)? It was just a side effect of having their civilization built around it?
@@DLxxx The interesting thing about your idea in the final paragraph is that the ME for some reason has always been implied to be somewhat sapient, (going as far as giving Knuckles visions without Tikal's aid) so I would not be surprised if manipulated events to always have someone protecting it.
I honestly like the idea that the Chaos Emeralds originally were from Earth like the Master Emerald better. But were drawn back to their origin where their original controller resided (Earth's Master Emerald, not the copy the Ancients tried to create) for the Gaia Cycle when the Time of Awakening happened again previously. Also, the Ancients I believe didn't turn into the Chao as another branch, they instead were mutated with said mutation influenced by the lingering energies of Light and Dark Gaia into energy beings similar to them. While the Light Chaos Chao that became Chaos was already a liquid-like lifeform as a Chao, becoming a liquid Chaos energy creature instead of a being of pure energy with a similar form like the Ancients. In case I was too confusing, I believe the Ancients were mutated similarly to Chaos by the scattered Chaos Emeralds, but in a different way than Chaos.
Some really good theories in this thread!! I think linking Light and Dark Chao to Gaia (also a titan/primordial of Greek nomenclature btw) is a big step in tying some of the confusing/conflicting lore together. I also subscribe to the idea that the emeralds where all together before the Ancients discovered them but am unsure if there is anything in the lore to support that. We'd have to know more about their origin.
It could be that chaos emeralds spontaneously formed on different planets, and the master emerald was just another chaos emerald that, due to an unexplained process (that might even have to do with how the Earth happens to have embodiments of light and darkness in its core, the latter of which happens to be capable to shatter the world and keep the continents floating in a similar way to Angel island), grew in size and power. It's also possible chaos energy works a bit like gravity or electromagnetism for the chaos emeralds, so a larger source of energy would draw smaller sources to it. That might explain why the chaos emeralds seemed to have been attracted by the master emerald once near Earth.
I am not confused over the Master Emerald attracting the Chaos Emeralds, that is perfectly understandable. As for spontaneous Chaos Emeralds, it is possible for sure. But the Ancients seem to state all the Chaos Emeralds are from their world, no all over space.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Oh. I didn't recall that part. Then maybe it's because the methods of the gems' formation were slightly different. In one planet, the ancients' homeworld, chaos energy took shape in the form of seven jewels, and in another planet, Earth, it formed a single, larger gem. By this logic, the reason the master emerald is so powerful might simply be because, to form the chaos emeralds, whatever energy or matter caused their creation world would have had to split in seven equal parts, while the same did not happen with the master emerald.(Although I'm still quite sure the presence of Light and Dark Gaia would have also contributed to its greater power, since they're pure positive and negative energy)
@@ironcloud3463 Something other commentors have pointed out is that the Emeralds coming from space doesn't mesh well with Gaia Temples needing Emeralds
@@TheRealMightyEmperor it could be that the stuff with the ancients happened far enough in the past to let ancient humans discover the emeralds' power, their connection to the Gaias (It's safe to assume Light and Dark are universal constants, so even across distant galaxies the emeralds would have similar, yet not as concentrated, positive and negative energy) and build the Light Gaia temples.
@@ironcloud3463 The Problem is Gaia existed since the start of time, presumably the very important role the emeralds play would also have started with them.
Chaos didn’t die because he was sealed in the master emerald by Tikal. Tikal also survived because she was sealed with him despite Echidna’s having regular life spans.probably like a suspended animation kind of deal, they basically time travelled to when Eggman released them from the Master Emerald.
Tikal was dead, she was a spirit. Chaos was real though and I never assumed he died from being sealed. What I meant was once he was sealed I was no longer worried about if he had a life span.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor The last thing we see in Sonic Adventure with Tikal is her pleading/convincing the Master Emerald to intervene with Chaos having gone mad with rage- so Tikal seems to have become a spirit/immortal then, and basedo n the Sonic Frontiers prologue showing Tika's light and Chaos's Ripples(tho he reappeared in Sonic battle)- They are still alive. Credit to tvtropes for spotting that chaos and tikal are shown in sega's prologue video. They're not dead, thouhg ...perhaps 'spirits' And chaos has no more rage in him after Super Sonic eliminated it
@@tippership I already agreed that Chaos and Tikal post being sealed in the Master Emerald were immortal spirit like beings so no issue. I was just wondering about before then. (Also a lot of use noticed Tikal and Chaos in the animation). Chaos potentially being an ancient just made me bring up if that would make sense for the time he had to be alive, it seems he cannot be an actual ancient due to this.
On top of all this, Eggman got most, if not all info from Cyber Space, right? And if it is confirmed that several Ancients moved to Angel Island, it makes sense that what is recorded in Cyber Space is true, specifically for what occurs on the Starfall Islands. The Ancients on the Starfall Islands died within a generation and that is what is recorded in the data, but they didn't have a way to communicate with the ones on Angel Island and those continued to live through the eons, getting changed by the radiation of the Master Emerald and getting changed into Chao. Chaos, through that same power was mutated, and his dormant genes reactivated and he changed to resemble the Ancients once more, but he is not identical to them, as he has already been heavily altered by the Master Emerald, and presumably that allows him to harness the other emeralds. And with the Master Emerald already attracting the Chaos Emeralds, it would stand to reason that the Chaos Emeralds were driven by the Master Emerald to leave the Starfall Islands, eventually putting Cyber Space in a sort of sleep mode, never to be updated or used in any sort of way until Frontiers. At least, that's how I can make sense of it
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Ah that's true, but that was after Eggman and Sage had activated Cyber Space again.. But it does bring to question why Eggman couldn't find any more data on the Ancients who moved away... Hmm..
This is a great video and highlights alot of the problems I have with Frontiers’ lore. I’m going to be honest, the Chaos Emeralds not being from Earth/Sonic’s world is probably my biggest overall issue with the new lore and now there’s even more hoops that have to be jumped through in order to tie everything together. I also am not a fan of the ancients as a concept. If they *had* to have the ancients, I’d say the best way to do it is that they are run off by The End, just like the story suggests, but then they search for a new planet with a more reliable and stronger power source. That being the Master Emerald *and* the Chaos Emeralds of Earth/Sonic’s world. That tiny adjustment could already fix so much. Although it still wouldn’t explain the ancients as a species and how they actually relate to Chaos.
In everyone's excitment for the new game people are quick to just accept all new information without checking first. Regardless on if my theories are right or not, we certainly could do with some clarification.
Trey!! So cool to see you engaging in the discussion around Frontiers :D I agree though, it was a VERY strange move to have the Emeralds come from space. While their exact origins have always been unknown, there were still strong implications that they were at least made ON Sonic's world. The fact that they're connected to the Gaia Temples and can be recharged by the planet (as well as the Master Emerald, their literal controller, always being on earth), directly conflicts with the idea that they originated in space. At the very least it makes their history significantly more convoluted than it needed to be (you're proposed alternative would've actually been MUCH cleaner, since they didn't even make the Titans till they arrived on Earth _anyway,_ so nothing about the main plot would need to be changed).
@@DLxxx . The fact that they're connected to the Gaia Temples and can be recharged by the planet (as well as the Master Emerald, their literal controller, always being on earth), directly conflicts with the idea that they originated in space. " This isn't a conflict at all. A correlation with the gaia temples doesn't mean it originated from Earth; it's just a correlation, that's it. We don't know why the gaia temples were built for the emeralds, but I think that'll be explained in the future. People gotta remember that from here on out, Sonic games will be ALOT more connected, meaning more lore will come and explain things. However, my theory is that the emeralds must've came to earth one time and solidified itself as a power source for the gaia temples? Or perhaps another energy source was empowering the gaia temples before the emeralds and is similar to the chaos emeralds.
@@Prime_Legend Fair point about them appearing to aim for a more connected story in future Sonic games (at least, based on the direction of Frontiers). I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to answer some of these lingering questions in the upcoming DLC. Though to be clear: I wasn't saying it _couldn't_ work, just that it was a strange move because it can over complicate things if not handled well. As for your theory, I saw someone else theorize that perhaps the Master Emerald was used in place of the Chaos Emeralds prior to their arrival. Which.. is plausible.
This is a MAJOR issue I have with Frontiers. I respect that they wanted to try to do more regarding story. But I fear this level of either retconning or just outright contradiction harms the continuity. I love Sonic Adventure so much. And I care deeply about its lore. And just feel worried that its being affected.
I hear you. One the one hand seeing Adventure actually get acknowledge alongside other long ignored content is great! On the other hand some of the integration is a bit rough (regardless of it there is an explanation or not) which rubs the risk of distorting aspect of the material Frontiers is trying to pay homage to.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I’d love to hear your thoughts regarding a common theory that ancients evolved into Chao. In Egg Memo 11, it alludes to them evolving to a new species. I feel like there are still holes personally but would love ur thoughts!
@@EmuEmi I find that really difficult to believe. A lot of my viewers here on the comments have had a variety of opinions on how it is true, with some more reasonable than others. For me personally, the fact that the Chao and Ancients are so radically different means the only way this could have happened was if all the survivors mutated in the exsact same way to all become Chao. This is enough for some people, but we have never actually seen the Master Emerald act like an unstable radioactive bomb. Chaos seems to be the exception for Mutation and was likely a Chaos Chao to begin with. The Master Emerald possibly mutated him to protect other Chao. If the Master Emerald does mutate all the ancients, why haven't put heroes or Eggman ever had any strange alterations? (Super forms do not count as those are temporary). And just in case someone brings up the Koco, Frontiers flat out tells us they are not real but possessed charms.
My theory is that since the chaos energy reacts to there heart, the master emerald's energy changed them to what there heart wanted because by nature them seem to be a dosical species that did not want war or volience. It's kind of like how people evolved over time losing things that were required to survive. So the koco evolved with the master emerald's energy losing things they don't need in the process like high intelligence, because you would not need that if you were just trying to live. This can explain why chaos can't speak or do thing to complicated because he is evolved not to do these things
I like to think the master emerald made chaos immortal and a proper god since he’s still treated as a god even after the events of SA where he came back from heaven in a game I forgot the name off
Sonic Battle is what you're thinking of as that's the game where Knuckles even remarks Chaos appears in times of great crisis. And it was also why thought that was the reason for his return in Forces but we all know how that went down with the story potential. -_-
about the emeralds and master emerald consider this both planets had atleast 1 brilliant cut gemstone brimming with the EXACT same type of energy. that would hint that ALL the emeralds arent native to the planets they were found on. and that there could be more and that something major happened a long long time ago tldr the emeralds were originally together (or even ONE super massive chaos planet?) something happened and they were scattered across the stars
After playing the game, I was surprised to be right to a degree about the Kuco being ancient Chao, given the whole Chao in Space parody background visual gag and animated short, and connection to Chaos. Of course I could be wrong there and just thinking out of loud. I'm personally under the impression that someone on the writing team either forgot or overlooked details in their research when doing the Kucos being alien versions of Chaos the Mutated Chao. And yes there are points of the game where it's so confusing like the Chaos Emeralds being from space yet the Master Emerald is on Earth, or how Eggman managed to figure out the DNA comparison when both are seemingly made out of water like substance. Perhaps it's set up like this because there's still more mysteries to discover around the origins of the Chaos Emeralds, Master Emerald, and Chao if this is the direction that Sega and Sonic Teamm wanna go towards just to bring back some of the Sonic lore many of us were craving for in the past decade. And there could've been better ways to handle the mysteries explanation better, but mysteries are meant to be solved and cracked by looking into things. Granted, sometimes there's no perfect answer, but life itself is complicated.
Well the Koko and Chao could have a divergent origin. From what I saw in one of the Amy cutscenes is that the Koko as rock people who protect themselves using a humanoid form that resembled Chaos.
we know that chaos and by extension chao are indeed descendants of the ancients as the egg memos outright say it for chaos and says the ancients evolved to be unrecognisable due to master emerald radiation, we also know that some ancients migrated to what would eventually become angel island bringing the chaos emeralds along with them whilst the ancients on the starfall islands were preparing for the arrival of the end. the ancients arrived tens of thousands of years prior to the games which is the same time given for the last time light and dark gaia awakened. we also know that the master emerald is sentient. because we know that chaos is a mutated chao we can assume that chao are the unrecognisable form the ancients mutated into as 1: chaos being a mutated chao and a descendent of the ancients means that the chao have to be related to the ancients and 2: the chao look nothing like the ancients (barring chaos). using this we can theorise that the master emerald, being aware of dark and light gaia awakening soon uses its control over the chaos emeralds to summon the passing by chaos emeralds to earth as their power can aid in speeding up the process of restoring the earth,upon arriving on earth the ancients split up into two groups, the starfall island ancients: the ancients that stayed behind on the starfall islands because they were either unable to join the other group leaving for some reason, or staying to prepare to fight the end, who all died when the end attacked. and the angel island ancients who left to bring the chaos emeralds to the master emerald who built the ancient ruins on angel island upon arriving to angel island the master emerald somehow communicated to the ancients about light and dark gaia who then proceeded to travel the globe building the gaia temples to aid light gaia and the master emerald in restoring the earth quicker explaining why the gaia temples are designed to use the emeralds power, after building the temples the ancients returned to angel island where the built many of the ruins and through some means were able to prophocise events in the future (possibly through the master emerald) such as sonic fighting dr eggman over the master emerald and chaos attacking station square. however the extended time spent around the master emerald caused them to mutate and over many generations evolve into the chao by the time civilisation was starting to get advanced, weher the echidnas had gotten power hungry and tried to steal the emeralds for themselves, the master emerald responded by scattering the chaos emeralds to south island (and westside island for the 7th emerald) possibly awakening some ancient dna within one of the chao mutating it into chaos however the ancient dna had been coroded over so many generations that chaos while having some notable similarities was also fairly different too, the master emerald also likely gave chaos the ability to utilise the emeralds to get stronger. from threats to atone for their mistake and eventually leaving knuckles with the responsibility on his own until i met sonic and had learnt to rely on others for assistance
That's an interesting idea you have there that the Master Emerald attracts the Chaos Emeralds in relation to Gaia. Although, we have no indication that the Master Emerald has that level of conscious, nor a reason to care even if it did.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor the master emerald is aware of the locations of its shards and even guids knuckles to the egg carrier to gather it showing that it has that consciousness and it has a reason to care, self preservation (which was shown woth the emerald guiding knuckles to the egg carrier to gain its remaining shards) as if earth is destroyed so is the master emerald
*whistles* This was quite the read! I love how you managed to cohesive connected all of these far flung dots together into a story of its own. The Ancients could very well be the root of so many of the things we've seen in the series! Though it doesn't quite explain why the Master Emerald would be light years away from the Chaos Emeralds, I think I can swallow that somewhat.. It'd be acceptable if we don't get any concrete origin for the Emeralds (otherwise, it could take away their mystique and storytelling potential).
I think we should also talk about Gaia's temples, and the fact that chaos emeralds are recharged through them, how can these temples exist if the emeralds came from another planet? supposedly the temples of gaia are as old as light and dark gaia themselves, so they couldn't have been built by the ancients, are there temples like these on each planet? is there a dark and light gaia on each planet?
Yeah, the Emerald's connection to the Gaia cycle really does imply they were made on Earth originally (especially considering the planet itself can recharge them, and the Master Emerald was already there). I guess we just have to assume the Emeralds were taken off the planet at some point, and made their way back thanks to the Ancients.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor So after listening to some dialogue between Sonic and Sage, the game explicitly says the Chaos Emeralds came from space afterall. It's not just implied. Sonic: "I'm so used to using the Chaos Emeralds it's kinda hard to believe they're from space." Sage: "Yes. They were central to the Ancients power and native to their world." Sage is pulling this data from Cyberspace/the Ancients recorded history, so that implies the Ancients themselves believed the Emeralds were from their own home planet. Meaning they must have been with the Ancients a long time for that belief to spread around.
My idea is, is that chaos is more of an amoeba so he can absorb pretty much anything. The fact he can transform due to the emeralds is probably because he ultimately is still a chao. With the master emerald I think it probably floated threw space after the creation event and wound up falling to angel island. Now since the koco Charms r clearly inside there bodies they would most likely contain their DNA so since chaos is an amoeba like creature he probably absorbed the eroded koco charm bits into him which then fused into his dna
A lot of Frontier was handled by Ian Flynn a prolific writer of the Archie abd IDW Sonic comics, an interesting note from the comics is the Chais Emeralds came from soace in the comics in an event called Chaos Fall, this wiped out most of the Mobosaur's as green emeralds rained down on Earth. We later learn during a deep space arc and other aliens that a similar event happened on 6 other worlds, eventually all these countless eneralds of varying colors are summoned to Mobius and fused together into 7 main emeralds. Its possible Ian Flynn is referencing this udea which is interesting considering he didnt write any of those issues they happened before he joined the staff. An in univetse exlkaination also going by other similar artofavts like the Phantom Ruby, Super Rings, Sol Emeralds, World Rings, Time Stones, and the Black Onyx the Sonic universe has all sorts of crazy mcguffin items and it was weord the Black Arms knew how to do Chaos Control. We know now that the ancients likely became the Chao and Chaos is thus likely a gebetic throwback and do to his prolonged exposure to tje emerald energies its possible he gained tje ability to tap into their power in a way the ancients who took a more scientific rather then spiritual approach ever could.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor true but a key writer of the comics wrote Frontiers and he even put in a line referencing a comic character he made Tangle the Lemur.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I'm not arguing that I am merely saying that the Chaos Emeralds being from space isn't a new idea abd Ian Flynn likely was aware of this so he could be rehashing the idea in a new way.
I don't understand it either but I think is a good start is how you can get a chaos chao from sa2 one of the things you need to do is give the chao every animal in the game and reincarnate twice so the most I can make is somehow chaos got some of the ancients (DNA as we've seen when a chao gets an animal's DNA it copies some of its appearance)was about at its reincarnating phase when it got mutated by the master emerald giving it chaos abilities like shadow(who has direct link to the chaos emeralds cause of the black arms link)and as you can see he's made of water don't know how that would fit in tho do you have anyway of how
As far as I thought while nearing the end of my playthrough, I wish it was confirmed by Eggman or characters, but my theory while playing is that the Koco charms were left behind and the ancients didn't actually die out like everyone was thinking. But instead, they evolved into the chao. As for Chaos, I figured the retcon would be that Chaos wasn't a chao that mutated due to the Master Emerald but was actually an Ancient that was chosen by the rest to receive artificial enhancements using the power of the Master Emerald to become Perfect Chaos by using all 7 Chaos Emeralds, and thus Perfect Chaos was what lead the fight against The End and the one who sealed her away in Cyberspace. After the exceedingly costly battle, Chaos was tasked with guarding all the emeralds and watched as his species slowly evolved into Chao over millions of years due to difficulty adjusting to Earth Life without the use of their destroyed tech. Of course, after beating the game, the only part of my theory that might still ring true is that the Ancients evolved into the Chao.
My little theory on its creation is that the Choas emerald and the Master emerald weren't made by the same creator but instead it is created with the same energy, chaos energy. Like who's to say that the energy used to create it is only used in one planet.
Oh yes most definitely. Though I can get the confusion on how it is a massive coincidence that all the emeralds have the same shape. But I do feel like that this is only the beginning and that, like many things with Sonic Frontiers, they might answer more questions on the future games.
Here's how I squared away the Chaos Emeralds being on the Ancients world. We all know the Chaos Emeralds are able to warp time and space and end up in mundane to wildest places as in special stages, which are like strange pocket dimensions. Who's to say they were used at some point but got warped to the Ancients world? But they were technologically sophiscated enough to build a Society that could function with them, even able to keep them housed so they don't disspear, which is why in Frontiers Sonic has to retrieve most of them from stasis in each island. Then when they fled their world they got in to close proximity to the Master Emerald. In that way maybe even calling them back home? Which allows the Gaia Temple lore to still exist in that at one point they were on Earth and then they were absent (Which is Nothing New to Chaos Emeralds) then they got drawn back? You can even argue that the same could of happend to the Black Arms at some point the only other confirmed alien species and society that knew of the Chaos Emeralds, but they may not been as technologically advanced as the ancients which Eggman alludes to in one of his notes. And I agree with the Sentiment that the Ancients diverged into two groups. The ones on the starfall islands didn't leave and got wiped out, maybe frozen with grief or regret their wills or memories the ones that died tragically got imprinted into the Koco's that Sonic and the others help them work through. The other group encountered Angel Island tried adapting at some point as evidence of the tower Knuckles stumbled upon and failed being mutated by the Emeralds until they became Chao like beings, then a Chaos Chao made contact with the Master Emerald and became Chaos as we knew him? Mutated and all. His longevity or life span? Chaos Chao are already immortal in nature anyway so it could have survived whatever the Master Emerald put it through making it a perfect vessel.
Pretty good way of looking at things. Good point with the Chaos Emeralds as well, if that is the case my question would be for how long were they absent from Earth?
@@TheRealMightyEmperor That is a good question and for a specific time frame I don't know. I tried to leave as much as what we know about the Chaos Emeralds track record of showing up in the strangest of places as the most compelling part of the theory leaving little to pure headcanon. Though if I had to delve into it my take given the whole Gaia Temples being attributed to being millions of years sort of cycle maybe one could argue they could of got separated after a cycle of Light Vs Dark Gaia on Earth and appeared on a different world entirely. It's speculation whether the Ancients already had advanced enough of a civilization to use the Chaos Emeralds on the Daily or it helped elevated their progression. Either way based on what we know in game and from other games, Dark Doom supposedly left some of his invasion force Dormant on Earth some 2,000 years ago according to Shadow the Hedgehog, and The Echinda tribe may have been wiped out not too far from that prior. In Frontiers they constantly hammer in how old the Ancients seem to be compared to most ancient civilizations and the Master Emerald was found just in the dirt in Frontiers in a Flash Back, suggesting it they could have arrived before even the Echidna Tribe even formed. So for the sake of argument the Ancients predated most ancient civilizations alien or other wise on Earth save for the Gaia Temples given how integral are to the Earth and the Cycle of Light and Dark Gaia. Maybe after one cycle the Chaos Emeralds disappeared ended up on the Ancients world for an unspecified period of time only to get drawn back by the Master Emerald. The Ancients could of built some of the structures on Angel Island but struggled to adapt to a primative world one way or another until the Echidna Tribe rose to prominence in their place.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor My guess? It could of been fresh off the Cycle before Unleashed. We don't have any history that I'm aware of anything of their past ones. As likely the only being who would even need to make use of the Emeralds around that time would no doubt be Chip/Light Gaia anyone else would be pure speculation.
Here's an interesting thought: we know that the Black Arms, specifically Black Doom, has the power to use Chaos abilities without an Emerald (as seen very early on in the game when he warps himself and Shadow to the Glyphic Canyon), which was a trait passed on to Shadow that Gerald would further develop. So perhaps instead of using the Emeralds to power technology, the Black Arms instead conducted biological experiments on themselves? Actually, now that I think about it, there's some _very_ strong evidence for this in hindsight. First of all, the Black Comet itself is a living organism, and most of their weapons in the game are based on organic materials as well. So it would make sense that they would take a more biological approach to improving themselves, as opposed to a technological one like the Ancients. Secondly, if you read the sequel comic to Shadow The Hedgehog (named "Shadow Fall"), this is EXACTLY what they do! Eclipse was born through their attempts to evolve their own DNA as a counter to Shadow, and the "Dark Arms" are revealed to be wisps infused with Black Arms DNA (so they used Hyper Go On energy to evolve themselves, setting a precedent for them having potentially done the same thing with the Chaos Emeralds).
This is my theory with the Chaos Emeralds. I don’t think they actually originated on The Ancients’ planet, but rather were created alongside the Master Emerald, by whatever means brought them about. With that in mind, looking back on the Sonic franchise as a whole, the Chaos Emeralds always seem to appear where they’re meant to. Like on South Island in Sonic 1, West Side Island in Sonic 2, ect. My best guess is that the Chaos Emeralds, at one point or another, were meant to appear to The Ancients’ because, ultimately, The Ancients’ were meant to use the Chaos Emeralds to bring about a way to defeat The End, and eventually would be returned to the Master Emerald. And while this hasn’t appeared in an official Sonic game, we have had Chaos Emeralds dispersed across different planets before in Sonic X season 3. Whether that fact could be considered plausible to the main game canon, I’m unsure, but I mainly bring it up due to the fact there’s precedent for the Chaos Emeralds being on a different planet from the Master Emerald. It’s possibly implied Sonic caused the dispersal across different planets himself, but I think WHERE the Chaos Emeralds ended up was important and that the Chaos Emeralds chose where to end up in the universe after being released by Sonic. So, perhaps one time they were used and then subsequently released, they were sent to the The Ancients’ planet, and they were eventually discovered and used which was ultimately meant to bring about the destruction of The End. That’s my take, anyway. Otherwise, I feel the Chaos Emeralds always end up a little TOO close together to be a coincidence, whether it be on the same island, continent, or the fact it’s always the same planet unless forcibly moved elsewhere. I think they’re always where they’re meant to be, and that seems to be how it always has worked in Sonic canon.
The emeralds after use are scattered away from one another, factor in the light year distance to earth on top of that and its unlikely all would be on the ancients home world if they were not created their.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I understand the likelihood is astronomically low for that to happen at random, which is why I have the stance the Chaos Emeralds almost have a type of sentience in which they will appear where they’re meant to be at any given time. I mean, the likelihood that all 7 Chaos Emeralds would appear on West Island in Sonic 2 seems just as low considering it’s one small island out of hundreds. In other words, the Chaos Emeralds kind of go by their own rules. But obviously, no one really knows how the Chaos Emeralds work anyway, so that’s my best attempt at explaining it with established Sonic canon.
I think the chaos emeralds are probably attracted to literal chaos. Like, conflict and stuff. They appear where rapid change is going to happen. Usually, they stay on the same planet for long periods of time, because there would have to be a massive amount of conflict to draw them to other planets, (like, for instance, a universe-ending manifestation of entropy.)
@@jadonh they do have sentience considering Sonic Rush and Rush Adventure, those two games talk about how the Chaos Emeralds were acting always on the heroes advantage there ( they even speculated that it wanted Sonic and Blaze to win. ) There is also the fact that Sonic doesn't consider a coincidence the chaos emeralds being assembled when he found them in colors DS. We can also talk about the fact that the chaos emeralds can also travel through time like in 2006 or not be affected by time at all in generations.
I was referring to his superiors there. As Ian has said numerous times, he had minor influence on the story and full control of the English script, but the meat of the plot was not in his hands.
Here's my theory I think that the ancients were ancestors to the chao overtime when they died out their dna created a brand new species which are the chao that's why when that one chao touched the master emerald it turn him to the origin species that made his dna which were the ancients
Just throwing some random ideas out there: I don’t think it’s far fetched to think the chaos emeralds and Master emerald have a shared origin despite how far away they were from each other. Hypothetically, if the super emeralds, the time stones from CD, the Secret Rings, and the Sol Stones from Sonic Rush are all canon, what if it’s possible that there’s a link between all of them? We could possibly even throw the phantom ruby in there tho I forget whether Eggman had a hand in creating that or not. Who’s to say that there isn’t also other emerald adjacent power sources on other planets as well? When it comes to the Ancients/Coco/Chao, I’d argue that Chaos Chao already bare resemblance to the ancients where even if Chaos never came to being, the resemblance would be uncanny. We’ve seen in Sonic ‘06 that the chaos emeralds have the power of revival so I think it’d be possible that the coco that found their way to Angel Island/Sky Sanctuary could have been reincarnated by the Chaos/Master Emerald into the Chao wherein their strongest state as a Chaos Chao brings them closer to their original form. Chaos happened to evolve passed that point to take a form even closer to that of the original Ancients. What makes Chaos different from the Ancients is that in SA2 Chaos Chao are immortal so Chaos may have also achieved a state of immortality where the Ancients did not. I think it’s also safe to then assume that Chaos came into creation with both the power of the chaos emeralds AND the Master Emerald making Chaos vastly superior to the Ancients.
Chao take on the form of whatever creature they interact with. It is possible that a chao was found by one of the ancients, and the chao mimicked the appearance of one of the ancients, so the ancient who found the chao was intrigued by it's ability, so they experimented on it by placing it on top of the master emerald. By then, the transformation was complete, and being infused with the energy from the master emerald had caused it's lifespan to far exceed any normal species. The ancients likely worshiped Chaos and the Chao, and built the shrine not for the master emerald, but for Chaos. Chaos and the chao would make the shrine their home. During the attack from the end, Chaos likely used the power of the master emerald to protect the chao and its self, hence why Chaos survived the end. It is reasonable to believe the reason why Chaos has DNA from the ancients is because he copied them much like a chao would copy a penguin, gorilla, otter, or rabbit.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I’m thinking maybe the chao aren’t descendants of the ancients. Maybe they were around at about the same time, and the one who copied the appearance of the ancients is Chaos. You could argue that a chao with gorilla arms is mutated. That’s not something the chao had hatched with. It’s the result of them taking the DNA of the gorilla, and adding a small portion of that DNA to their body. Any chao that doesn’t gain strength solely through chaos energy (via the master emerald, or chaos emeralds before Adventure 2, chaos drives during Adventure 2) can be considered mutated, because they have attributes that don’t naturally occur. My theory is that the chao use chaos energy as their primary source of strength, and the ones who stay far from the master emerald or chaos emeralds can’t use chaos energy, so as a cheat, they copy the DNA of whatever animals they can find. Here’s a possible story. The ancients arrive on earth, and not too long after, the chao migrate to the master emerald to revive their seasonal chaos energy feeding. One of the ancients stumbles across a chao who was struggling to make its way to the master emerald. The ancient picks it up, and gently carries the small Chao over to the emerald, where it receives it’s first energy feeding since it was hatched. It became comfortable around the ancient. We’ll name him Fred for simplicity’s sake. Fred and Chaos begin to bond more, and one day, the chao samples Fred’s DNA, and inherits Fred’s appearance.
I just thought of something really grim. When the ancients die, their charms are left behind. and when knuckles found the koco mask, it was under a bunch of rubble, conveniently covering a cyberspace portal. Maybe the portal was transporting a bunch of the ancients to sky sanctuary, and the last one to leave quickly pulled out the portal gear, before being crushed to death under the rubble of a cave-in. and now this random ass chao wants to play with it's remains lol
10:46 or the ancients devolved into the chao due to the master emerald and one of the chao re evolved back into a ancient due to the master emerald needing a protector
Covering the disparity between the chaos emeralds and the master emerald, it could be a red herring. The emeralds could have originated on earth, an event could have occurred that caused them to leave the planet, and the master emerald could have been calling them back all along
I think the ancients might have looked way different in their past, but due to long time exposure to the Chaos Emeralds might have mutated them into the watery beings we see. So, when a Chao touched the Master Emerald, a stronger emerald, it was turned instantly into a watery being
Retcon's are a headache and I think this is going to be a remake of Sonic Adventure and Adventure 2 if they are going to make the continuity more fluent.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor by the way i think there really is a close connection to chaos the ancients master emerald and the chaos emeralds its really unknown what connects to all of them but I hope we find out in the future
Actually no. The story was written by Sega Japan. Flynn was occasionally allowed to influence the story, but was mostly limited to the English Dialogue which is not the same thing.
@@SwampKryakwa This isn't something I am making up. Flynn wrote the entire English Script but the story itself I.E what happens, major plot points etc was Sega Japan. Flynn himself has said this
Not that everything would add up perfectly, but if you consider that the ancients were running from the end, and were an advanced civilization, the link between chaos, the chao and the ancients could be stages of imbuement of the emeralds. We never see chao utilize emeralds, we are told a chao became chaos because of the master emerald, and the ancients all share the emeralds. This on its own makes little sense because of how far the ancients came from, but if you think of how the master emerald was portrayed in the sonic movie (which themes such as the blue lightning seem to be slowly carrying over), it could be taken that the ancients were from so far away, that their home was a more developed parallel universe, placing the collective of the emeralds at multiverse equivalent of the master emerald. Sonic’s universe and the ancients universe being parallels means chao and koko can be alternates, just like sonic and blaze explaining the sample match, and the master emerald, and the chaos emeralds are alternates, explaining how chaos reaches levels the ancients wouldn’t, since he starts similar to the ancients form, achieved with the master, and gaining as he solely gains the emeralds. Lastly, the end taking the ancients home would mean that the emeralds, few remaining ancients, and tech would have nowhere to return to and so wouldn’t be forced to return, and since the end was sealed, and even later defeated, there is nothing stopping the emeralds to become a permanent part of Sonic’s world early enough that it still makes sense as it was before. This however does mean that the adopted emeralds in combination the the master emerald make Sonic’s universe way more powerful than other potential parallel universes. Come the think of it… I don’t recall if a master sol emerald was ever mentioned. Either way, that’s just how I have rationalized it out. 🎉makes sense to me🎉
There's also the issue with the Gaia Temples, so the Chaos Emeralds should've been around on Earth FAR longer than the time when the Ancients came to Earth
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Yeah, which is weird when they had Tails name drop Dark gaia in the game as well. Which leads to one of two problems: 1. The Gaia Temples were around longer, so they had to be on Earth before the Ancients brought them. 2. The Gaia Temples were made after the Ancients came to Earth, but then the issue is that the Ancients haven't been around long enough to have been around at the last time the cycle occurred. Plus, it bring sup the question of how the Earth has been fixed all the previous times Dark Gaia has awakened.
Think another good theory is to go off of what Eggman said about some form of radiation mutating the ancients and changing them into a completely different form. What if the surviving ancients that fled to angel island were actually mutated into the Chao we see today, and when the events of the echidna tribe happened, the chaos Chao absorbed the energy of the emeralds and was transformed back into a form closer to their original one
Simplier theory The chao were ancients who used thei master emerald to turn back into similar creatures, touching the emerald mutated it back to a proto form. Him being stuck in the master emerald mutated his body and gave him new powers, thing gives sonics tons of power when he just steps on it, sleeping in it for thousands of years will do something. He is not made of water but just something very similar probably mostly water.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor which could be explained by him napping in the master emerald for thousands of years mutating him. Also could just be a substance so close to water that its pretty hard to tell apart and can absorb more water to grow.
It’s gotta be the emeralds and master emerald both have a similar origin and that they mutated the ancients and mutated chao Chaos, or ya this otherwise all falls apart. I’m sure Ian Flynn has something in store that’s gonna clear up this confusion. I got the impression it was intentional that we weren’t given the whole picture in one game.
What if every planet has some Chaos Emerald equivalent? Like every planet has a Dark Gaia equivalent inside of them. The Chaos and Master Emeralds are two sources of the same energy. It’s just that the Master Emerald is stronger and so whoever has it can enforce their will onto the weaker Emeralds. Or do the inverse and overcharge the Chaos Emeralds. Creating the Super Emeralds. And Hyper Sonic
@@TheRealMightyEmperor perhaps not all. But there’s probably a lot more then we thought. Especially since Blaze’s world has its equivalent in the Sol Emeralds despite being from a different dimension if not universe And Black Doom was aware of the Chaos Emeralds and their power despite having never been to Earth before. Perhaps he’s encountered something similar on other planets? But maybe that’s headcanon idk
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Black Doom could’ve been referring to 50 years before when he met Gerald Robotnik. That’s what I referring to when I said he was privy to the Emeralds despite never being to Earth. Unless he showed up some time earlier then that
So my question is this, could it be possible that chaos isn't actually related to the ancients, but he was instead mutated into a form resembling them by the master emerald, given what we know about it? Basically the master emerald took ques from them and molded chaos' watery form into that shape, be it a tribute or warning...?
@@TheRealMightyEmperor true, but that could be because the emerald made more literal changes in his biology, like a medley of many creatures and eras. But again, all speculation
In regards to the lifespan and DNA issues, I would argue that the chaos emeralds were present at the altar with the master emerald in every flashback we saw in sa1. You're assuming chaos was mutated by the master emerald alone, when he was more than likely mutated by both in tandem. That would explain why he becomes the same species as the ancients, since they both would have been exposed to the chaos energy radiated by the emeralds. Same catalyst, same result. I would also argue that chaos is a special case, and his long lifespan was almost certainly due to the energy from the emeralds keeping him alive.
Personally, I think we still don't have a definitive answer for where the Chaos Emeralds came from. It's entirely possible that the Ancients simply DISCOVERED the Chaos Emeralds, otherwise why go out of their way to show that the Master Emerald's origin and connection to the other gems is a mystery, even to the Ancients?
Yes but if they discovered the Chaos Emeralds, they would still have been all the way on their own home planet. the Master Emerald was shown so that we know it pulled the Chaos Powered Ships to Earth.
I'd say it wasn't a retcon per-sey, but rather The Ancients likely evolved into the chao, and he was one that flash-mutated back into their original form. That's why he can't talk, he's basically just an innocent regressed animal given heightened levels of comprehension and sentience. He can't speak, but that's because he either isn't developed enough to do it or he can't develope the ability to due to being past the potential "age" most people need to due to brain development. That's why he seems to be difference when compared to the rest of them, too. They evolved naturally, he was flash-mutated in a split moment. As for the emeralds and master emerald, its likely that the Master Emerald and the Chaos Emeralds were cut from The Chaos entities body/sculpted from remnants of its formation/debris. ANd since its bigger, it attracts them like smaller magnets to larger ones. That, or he was genetically imprinted upon and/or the chao are a related species genetically
I agree with a lot of this, but not everything. I am going to want to see / hear definitively from Sega about how exactly (If at all) the ancients are connected to Chao / Chaos
Oooo, I really like this idea! It explains why Chaos would have the (mutated) form of an Ancient, but the intelligence of a Chao. He simply never properly developed the ability to perform things like speech (and why he can act so animalistic in his other forms) due to his body being transformed so rapidly.
I belive the Ancient evolved into the Chao, and then that Chao got mutated and became Chaos, resembling a lot more of their ancestors. Also it makes sense that he doesn't talk like the Ancient, why would he had a language if he has nobody to talk to?
You would think he would talk with his fellow Chao no? And the language thing was more to show a connection to the ancients then to have a conversation. The ability to speak at all would be a good link.
My guess is the Chaos Emeralds and the Master Emerald have a common origin. Maybe the Ancients didn't create them, or maybe the Master Emerald originates from the Ancients own world but was lost?
A number of the issues are actually solved via Sonic Adventure 1, particularly the deeper dives into Tikal and Chaos when they were friends in the game during Sonic, and Knuckles routes. Tikal's job as priestess meant she could actually hear the voice of the master emerald, and Chaos could as well, it's actually why they became friends ontop of both mutually liking the Chao. Him being able to hear the voice of the master emerald implies a much deeper connection between him and the master emerald, nevermind the fact that in Tikal and Chaos first encounter he literally came out of the master emerald, ontop of Tikal sealing both herself and chaos in the master emerald afterwards, and it being implied that they both went back inside the emerald again after the first adventure game. It's also heavily implied Dr.Eggman took Chaos DNA during the time he had a deep look at the emerald and found Chaos sealed inside intially, ontop of glyphs and ruins on angel island and sky sanctuary pointing towards Chaos existence(hence why sonic adventure 2 happened) Overall its my personal theory that the master emerald was most likely created by the ancients after spending time on earth. They already proved they were masters at harnessing and controlling the energy in frontiers and the technology there. It wouldn't be a stretch for them to then perfect that technology after coming to earth, and making a chaos emerald to control the 7 emeralds. Chaos existence therefore is most likely completely tied to the master emerald, and is either the master emerald itself, or something akin to it. This is the pure speculation part, but like how eggman made sage to operate and mess around with the frontiers ancient technology, Chaos is probably an A.I made for the master emerald itself. Or at the very least, is a system the ancients put into the master emerald, for what reason is uncertain. But if Chaos was programmed to protect the Chao, and the Chao are mutated ancients, and the rogue ekidna tribe killed the Chao, then...
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I know they are from another dimension, they are the blazes dimensions equivalent to the chaos emerald, doesn't mean they aren't related somehow though
My personal theory that the Ancients eventually became the Chao, rather than Chao being separate and eventually one of them eventually becoming a Chaos Chao and then being turned into Chaos by the Master Emerald. After all, Chaos Chao exist in-game; if a Chao is to grow up to be neutral, is happy enough, has enough reincarnations and has access to every single animal-ability, then the Chao will lose the ability to die or reincarnate (or the ability to show animal parts on its body), but more importantly, it will resemble Chaos, who also resembles and supposedly shares DNA with the Ancients. So, this means that a Chao can naturally grow (given an environment where it can learn all small animal abilities) into a form much like the Ancients. By extension, the Chao must have some link to the Ancients, since they can grow eventually into a form that resembles them; which in my mind debunks the idea that the Chao are separate. They didn't absorb any Ancient DNA to take on that form, after all; the Ancients are already dead by the time the player is able to raise Chao in the Chao Gardens. Note also how the Chao, unlike Chaos, are not capable of morphing their shape, and neither are they made out of water. Rather, they naturally grow up and die, or reincarnate as an egg if happy enough. Similar to how the Ancients themselves grew up, aged and died naturally. (although the "reincarnation as an egg" part doesn't fit.) However, Chaos is made of water, and we know for sure that he's descended from a Chao, meaning that the whole "water being that can change shape" thing is purely as a result of the Master Emerald, rather than the Ancients also being water-beings. Now, for the Koco mask in Sky Sanctuary. There's not much seen of it, but there is one big thing I'd like to make clear about it; it is not an actual Koco. It's merely a mask. Potentially, it could be a charm from the Ancients that was not infused with their spirits after death. However, the Chao is seen desparately trying to break it free and, after Knuckles uncovers it, the Chao flies away - wearing the mask, as if it was that Chao's all along. As if that Ancient became a Chao, but continued to reincarnate and eventually found its charm. Even if that's not the case, the fact that the Chao was trying to break the mask free likely does signify some sort of connection, even if it's a flimsy one. Now, how do some of these things tie in to Chaos? Well, firstly, if he originated as a Chaos Chao, the previous attributes would explain the Ancient-like appearance, as well as his lack of a life cycle; Chaos Chao don't age, after all. But, for a Chaos Chao to exist in the first place, there has got to be some DNA present to allow the Chao to look like the Ancients, but this likely would not exist unless the Chao originated from them; the only other way would be for a Chao to absorb Ancient DNA, but this is impossible because there are none around anymore. The Koco mask mainly just connects the Chao to the Koco in my eyes, rather than connecting the Ancients to Chaos, but it's still a reasonable point in my opinion. Of course, that's all just a theory. tl;dr: Chao are linked to Ancients, due to Chaos Chao. Chaos Chao turned into Chaos, hence link from him to Ancients. Chao also linked to Ancients and Koco because of the mask in Sky Sanctuary, as the Chao was seemingly desparate to obtain it. Chaos only got his water-like body and ability to morph or use the Chaos Emeralds from the Master Emerald, rather than from the Ancients or the Chao.
Nice theory and good presentation. Most people don't bother with the mask so it was nice to see you do so. One thing I will say is that Chaos Chao (The form) may not be based on ancients. The Neutral version actually has water-like effects on the tips of its frills, but more importantly are the Dark and Hero versions which look like Neutral Chaos but not like the ancients. Of course, that doesn't mean you are wrong about Ancient DNA, but there is a chance it is separate.
5:05 I thought they were all artifacts from the special stages that somehow leaked into the Sonic universe and crystallized into rings and emeralds (maybe this energy also has something to do with the nautrual forming loops and checkerboard looking soil and humanoid looking animals)
Hmm.. 🤔 That is a very strong point. If anyone can weird the chaos emeralds to access a super state, it's strange the Ancients never appeared to understand how to harness their power outside of technology.
Several factions and characters were name dropped in Frontiers and it's nice to have all that acknowledged after so long. One question I had related to Dark/Light Gaia from Unleashed. They've been in a struggle for a LONG time and the Chaos Emeralds are important to healing the planet when/if it's broken apart by Dark Gaia. Were the Chaos Emeralds always integral to the planet healing? If so and the Master/Chaos Emeralds have been on Earth for the extent of Dark/Light Gaia's seemingly eternal conflict, how does that relate to the Ancients and the Chaos Emeralds? There's plenty about Sonic Unleashed's plot that I've forgotten about so I might be talking out of my ass here.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor That'd be pretty convenient for these primordial beings to wait for the Chaos Emeralds to show up before starting their eternal struggle.. unless the Ancients's arrival predates all life on the planet and they're over a billion years old or something. I just hope that the Ancient's are brought up again in the future because there are times where Sega brings up something and then never mentions it again outside of a cameo. The Ancients are intrinsic to the Chao Emeralds which are the crux of so much Sonic stuff so I'm pretty sure this isn't the last time we'll see the Ancients.
I have a theory. When Light Gaia defeated Dark Gaia long ago, Light Gaia sent the Chaos Emeralds into the Special Zones (one of the places where the Emeralds can recover their energy). Later on, the Special Zones were discovered by the Ancients who built constructs to harness their power. Eventually, "The End" showed up causing the Ancients to flee to Earth (thanks to the Master Emerald guiding the Chaos Emeralds home). This theory helps prevents any reconning shenanigans. What do you think?
At a glance nothing about your theory contradicts official lore, the only grey spot is if that is something within Dark Gaia's power (Since it is supposed to just be concerned with earth) and if it was possible at that time in the cycle.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor You mean Light Gaia not Dark. It is a little grey, but I’m using the connection he has with the emeralds through the temples to justify the ability to send them away to recover their energy within the Special Zones.
I was thinking that chao naturally would evolve into chaos like creatures (like the chaos chao) and in their final stage of life grow up into the ancients, so the ancients off-sping very well could be chao
It's never stated if the chaos emeralds came for the same planet as the earliest point of the ancients' history that we know of them is fleeing the end. Who's to say they haven't been planet hoping for a while now, fleeing their enemy and collecting chaos emeralds from planets that had one eventually getting sucked in by the master emerald. I feel like it makes more senses for the emeralds to be spread out whether then have 7 on 1 planet and the controller on another. Granted this solves none of the questions in the video but i feel like it makes the bigger picture easier to look at albeit still a bit blurry.
I would take a guess that the Ancients created the Master emerald when they learned that The End followed them. So when the created the Master emerald the Ancients stored some of the data of themselves so when Chaos interacted and became mutated that is what gave him the form that he has. I would admit after finishing the game some stuff feels missing but who knows dlc might add some lovely lore to fill in the missing pieces of the puzzles
One of the things I’ve heard was that the Master Emerald was created by the gods to halt anyone from misusing the Chaos Emeralds. Don’t recall which game or source it’s from or if it’s just in-lore speculation, it could possibly work but on a galactic scale.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor it would mean the chaos emeralds started out on earth then eventually made their way to the ancient's world This fully solves the master emerald chaos emerald connection, but means there's more history from WAAAAY back
Maybe Chaos is part of the ancients but he was absorbed by the master emerald or atleast was hiding within the emeralds, when he came out to fight the Echidnas he was fully powered up but when he came back in SA1 was crippled and in a very bad state which was why he was made of water and had machines, since he was inside of the master emerald it's maybe like how a caveman would be frozen in ice, and he has a much smaller base form (AKA chaos Zero) because he wasn't fully grown yet. This makes absolutely no sense I know but I wanted to try some way to figure it out.
I'd say the most likely reason behind the apparent connection of the ancients, chao and Chaos - is that the Master Emerald has some... pseudo intelligence behind it. The ancients probably left some imprint upon the Master Emerald since they had similar stones and treated it with respect, building the grand alter for it. The ancients die out, and eventually chao come in. The ME has some sense of longing for it's old guardians and given that Chao seems very responsive to different shapes and forms (even resembling Sonic, Shadow and other characters on occasion), they accidentally pick up the ability to take on this "chaos" form. Then later a chaos chao absorbs an abundant amount of energy from the ME and becomes Chaos - his form again is made from the imprint on the ME's "memory". Though this would mean that there is no direct connection between the Chaos and Master Emeralds, the ME would seem to be the "master" just because it's the bigger and stronger one - possibly created by the same ancient natural process (with minimal variance to change the number, size, power and colour), and by extension means that there might be other emeralds out in the Sonic galaxy that we simply don't know about. I also have doubts that the ancients made Sky Sanctuary - at least not directly. More likely imo that Sky Sanctuary was built over what the ancients made, since Knuckles makes a point in his short that the room with the starfall island cyberspace shrine is much older than the rest of the ruins.
It's not that the master emerald is called like that because it is bigger and stronger. The chaos emeralds have positive energy, while the master emerald has negative. The prayer of Tikal says that ME controls the chaos emeralds, fact that happened twice, once when she locked herself and chaos in ME, and second when Knuckles prayed to stop Biolizard
@@CedroEscarlate That's demonstrably not true. The Chaos Emeralds have been explicitly shown to hold equal amounts of positive and negative energy within them during the final story of Adventure. Super Sonic used the positive energy of them, Perfect Chaos used the negative energy and their collisions during the battle cancelled out both power ups. The Master Emerald isn't just a negative to their positive, it holds controlling power over them (if you accept 3&K as canon it can also power them up as well). Given they now no longer have a shared origin, it being the larger stronger gem is the one (unsatisfying) explanation I can think of as to why it has this dominion over the others.
@@WolforNuva that's not the kind of positive and negative energy i'm talking about. I was talking about their interaction, which is revealed in somewhere i can't remember. They have an interaction of polarity, with one being positive and one being negative. You're refering to evil/good energy that is absorved and used through emotions, just like tikal's prayer said: Power enriched by the heart. Sorry for the confusion
@@WolforNuva also it can vary its size depending on the holders' will. And ME can neutralize the power of the chaos emeralds, it's not just a size problem
It makes the most sense to me that after The End was contained, the remaining Ancients left and formed Angel Island. Whatever happened to them after that isn't clear, but the Chao popping up tells me that they aren't the Ancients because of the existence of the Chaos Chao. The emeralds mutated a chao and it became Chaos 0.
Yeah, I don't like it either. I think it would make much more sense if the Chaos Emeralds still remained a mystery. But if they needed connections to anyone or anything, Light and Dark Gaia would have been MUCH better.
@@DangerousArmyGuy the Ancients found them on their planet but they never created them and the Master Emeralds to be already on earth just gives it away that they belonged to earth at this point and this leads to the creation of earth and DarkGaia at the same time with LightGaia( stated in Unleashed Lore ) lightgaia wanted to make sure that DarkGaia doesn’t separate earth in pieces wich leads us to LightGaia asking for help from the people of earth to use the Chaos emeralds energy into Temples a Gaia ( who were built by unknown users that understood Chaos energy in the Time during the first battle of Light and Dark gaia ) LightGaia and his followers were successful sealed Darkness away but the cost of it were the Chaos emeralds who went off space to the Ancients planet but that’s my theory
I think Chaos is a genetically engineered golem created by the ancients, and created to protect the master emerald from outsiders and hostile tribes from misusing it's power. All while the ancients were being effected by the master emeralds radiation turning them into chao. Therefore the golem they made ended up protecting the chao his original creators who were the once the ancients and the master Emerald and the chaos emeralds themselves.
15:02 I'm personally adamant about the ancient dying and turning into cocoa and then the cocoa mutating into Chao, everything in game and the knuckles short just points to it.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor that actually makes me even more insistent it has to be the same because the chao literally put on a shell of a coco as a mask they could have just shedded the stone like shell cuz they are more than likely hollow since if you look at them with a beam of light hitting them you see light bouncing around inside of them, plus we really can't ignore the fact that they're designs are super similar especially with the eyes and mouth, perhaps the coco being around the Master emerald for so long mutated them into having something inside of their coco bodies or something, I understand your theory does make a lot of sense but I hope it's not that they are just so similar it would be kind of lazy Imo to be separate
I mean, it wouldn't be hard to say that Chao ARE the Master Emerald-mutated descendants of the Ancient's Koco that migrated to Angel Island. Eggman's Memo implies that evolution upon EONS had occurred, so it's not a stretch to also believe that the Master Emerald restored one of the Chao's DNA into that of the Ancients, creating Chaos. Chaos then, would be a vessel to protection his people against any threats. This would also go hand-in-hand with Knuckles' role to guard the Master Emerald. He's not just guarding a gem with godlike power, but preventing an emissary of revenge from being unleashed, and his ancestors must've known that, because it is said that the Echidna tribe was inspired by the Ancients. So the theory would go, Ancients escaped The End to Earth, bringing the Chaos Emeralds with it. They (may) have built the Gaia temples to assist Chip (Sky Sanctuary gives them a place to go that isn't affected by Dark Gaia, so it all comes full circle but is also a reach). The End comes to Earth, and the Ancients disperse for survival. The End attacks the Starfall Islands and is later sealed away inside of Supreme and cyberspace. The Koco on Starfall are the Ancients that did not go to Angel Island. The Ancients that went to Angel Island died off, and became their Koco, but the Master Emerald mutated them into Chao, slightly restoring the DNA of the ancients (The Rocks are now blue blobs). One Chao in particular becomes Chaos, and now (depending on the lifespan of Koco/Chao) it's very possible that Chaos could be one on the Ancients that were aware of their home's destruction, or the attack on Earth eons ago, so he protects his people, THE CHAO. Love your video, but I do think you may have complicated your thinking here a bit, but I don't blame you as much of the connected dots I presented are inferences, and not alot is direct in this game.
Thanks for the support and time put into the comment. The Koco however are not the ancients and cannot be generic ancestors of the Chao. Why? Because not only do we know they are just charms, the game let's us know they are not "alive" but simply repeating memories trapped within Cyber Space. Chaos also has to have come from a Chao as this has always been the case, if this is no longer the case that is a retcon.
I’m hoping they answer some questions we have now in future games. Especially with why the Master Emerald was on “earth” but the chaos emeralds came from elsewhere. Are there more chaos emeralds on other planets? Maybe equivalents?
@@ww1483 That would make more sense if the Master Emerald affected anything other than the specific 7 chaos emeralds we've seen in all the mainline games. Granted, the timestones from CD probably only exist in the timespace of little planet...
@@TheRealMightyEmperor That would make sense... After all "The master is the controller, the seven are the servers." That line could mean subservience from the 7 or that the 7 act like nexuses and the master is useful for directing that energy.
Anyone else thinking that the Phantom Ruby came from Cyber Space? with the powers that it has, it could've been sent through due to the effect that it has of distorting reality and it could have been sent to crack reality enough to get a signal to Eggman so that The End could be freed from its dimensional prison.
I would also like to mention the ancients predates everything we know so we dont know who or what put in stone about chaos' nature an why he was inside the master emerald we also do not know what happened to the rest of the ancients because yeah they would have died off but heres the thing its before any events pf the sonic universe took place so for all we know chao could be the actual relatives to the ancients and while yes exposure to chaos energy is something to note chaos was inside that master emerald for a long time not to mention there were things left put on purpose but its already a wider narrative being set up
The game makes statements about these things so that we do know key points, the is the whole point of this game. Eggman states all the ancients did die off, the ancients in flash backs seem to suggest the same outcome. Chaos did not exist during the time of the ancients, what we know about him is unchanged unless there was a retcon.
Hmm.. So after looking through the comments, the prevailing theory seems to be that the Ancients split into two groups. Some went to Angel Island, but the rest stayed on the Starfall Islands and quickly died out. The remaining Ancients, however, had their bodies and DNA forcibly corroded and mutated overtime due to the ambient radiation of the Master Emerald (which the Chaos Emeralds may have led them to on Angel Island), eventually turning them into the Chao.
At some point, a Chaos Chao came into contact with the Master Emerald, and was transformed into its guardian and "God of Destruction." Considering the Master Emerald is implied to be sentient to a degree (not completely though), the stone itself may have done this on purpose, and in the process, restored some of the Ancients' corrupted DNA. However, while he may resemble his ancestors, Chaos is clearly different. His body is made up of actual, morphing liquid, he is granted immortality, and his connection to the Master Emerald caused his transformations to resemble the newly made shrine it was connected to. Remember, the Ark's Core in SA2 was built like the shrine to harness the power of the Chaos Emeralds. So assuming the Ancients made the shrine, they may have done so with the intent to link the Master Emerald to the Chaos Emeralds. And if the ME was connected to the shrine from that point onward, it explains why Chaos has elements resembling the shrine in its transformed state (because it mutated Chaos to be its guardian, and the shrine was now associated with it).
Thing is I am pretty sure the Ancients that went to angel Island did just die hence why we find the Koco mask
@@TheRealMightyEmperor True.. then again, Eggman did say they mutated "over eons", so perhaps the original Ancients on the island DID all die out, leaving behind their Koko charms, but their increasingly mutated _descendents_ became the Chao? I dunno.. that's assuming Eggman was strictly referencing the Ancients on the Starfall Islands when he said they all "died out within a generation," or perhaps he simply considered the Chao "relatives" of the Ancients, and just meant their original species was gone within a generation. Though.. that last bit doesn't make too much sense, considering it's implied they evolved into the Chao, which means SOME generations must've been born.
Which log came first? It's a stretch, but if he only had Sage run that diagnostic AFTER believing they all swiftly died out, it's possible he may have just been mistaken before (hence the contradictory information).
Edit: Honestly though, I don't get why I'm jumping through hoops to explain away these holes, lol. I guess it’s just sort of fun picking it apart.
@@DLxxx Yeah its better than damage control needed after Forces
@@DLxxx perhaps the reason for that they were wiped within a generation, was that the ancients who were yet to be born ended up being more apt to be affected by radiation, biologically speaking babies tend to be easier to have their body structure modified since they haven't had their bodies fully formed yet , perhaps the next generation of ancients were mutated too much while still in their fetus form (assuming they had one), however to get to the level of mutation of a Chao it probably took at least another generation or two, however already in the first generation could perhaps be enough for them to become a barely recognizable species.
@@willbrgamer5137 Right, that's sort of what I was thinking in my reply. Eggman did they were mutated in a NEW species, so even if the Chao are the mutated descendents of the Ancients, they're so radically different from eachother that you could still say the Ancients effectively died off.
One of the flashback cutscenes explains that if they lose against The End, they would send a group with the Chaos Emeralds over to the Master Emeralds. It's implied that these were the Ancients that built Sky Sanctuary and possibly other ruins on Angel Island, but they were slowly mutated into Chao by some kind of radiation. Hope that clears things up.
Thanks but I do actually cover that in this video and explain how the game is unclear on what exsactly happens to that group
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I think it's safe to assume that the radiation which mutated them came from the Master Emerald, but it's still a mystery. I think they intentionally left it open so they can revisit it later in another game or perhaps a DLC.
@@boneneedle3360 have we actually heard of radiation from the emeralds before?
@@Galewind. According to the Sonic News News Network wiki, JP manual for Sonic 3 states that the Master Emerald "radiates" the same energies as the Chaos Emerald. That can't really be the case anymore, but it at least establishes that the Master Emerald does radiate energy.
@@boneneedle3360 it could be the moraine and other being from Sonics world have a natural resistance to it. Having developed on a world with the master emerald being there, polluting the world with low levels of chaos energy when everything was still forming. But to species without this natural defense long term expose can be a disaster.
Sorry I haven't finished the video yet;
I think Eggman is referencing that The Ancients themselves evolved or mutated into Chao; Which explains the DNA aspect of Chaos.
The Mutation from the Master Emerald reverted Chaos genetics back into a Primitive state... Basically de-evolutionized him.
Yeah it may be referencing that but the wording is messy
@@TheRealMightyEmperor yeah it's pretty difficult to explain as Eggman doesn't say that The Ancients mutated into Chao.
Instead he kept it vague for some reason in the Memos.
@@Supermariorpg6 Its so we the players can figure it out.
@@Supermariorpg6 he probably didn’t cross reference them with any chao because he never knew chaos’s backstory
Chao are a super adaptable species. They take on forms and attributes from other animals and even their caretakers which fits with the Chao Garden mechanics from the Adventure Games.
(Remember most of the ancients could not adapt to Earths environment putting an evolutionary pressure on them). A Chaos Chao with Master Emerald radiation reveals its primordial form of its evolution hence Chaos resembling the ancients but since Chaos is enhanced by Chaos Energy, it gains new abilities like Metamorphosis with each emerald obtained even to the level of Perfect Chaos. Perhaps thats what Eggman meant about radiation. Chaos Energy.
The Black Arms (specifically Black Doom) demonstrated Chaos Control and knew about the Chaos Emeralds seemingly for a long time (making the Space Fairing Emerald route make sense). Shadows abilities stem from Black Doom (Gerald sampled his blood) hence why he doesn't need an external power source to produce Chaos Energy unlike the Biolizard. It's by blood apparently.
The evolution route is my favorite one at the moment. I'm just glad they are getting back to lore and that there is something of substance to talk about.
So many aspects of Frontiers lead to greater conversations. This has been missing from the Sonic series for a long time. There is still a bit more that needs to be done, but Frontiers was a good first step.
I like this
I always just assumed the Ancients evolved into the Chao in an attempt to adapt to their new home, and whatever happened to Chaos reawakened it's much more alien like atributes, while still retaining it's Chao characteristics.
No6thing wrong with that, however as you yourself say it is just an assumption. This theory tries to find a way to explain.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor if the fact chao are native to angel island and the ancients fleed to angel island and they are the ancestors of the chao. And that's what eggman meant.
@@themarinefan it’s sounds like they DEVOLVED rather than EVOLVED.
@@kanewilson8624 there is no such thing as deevolution. Only evolution that goes in a different direction.
@@kanewilson8624 I mean, they technically did, but even still it allowed them to live on earth better than they were.
So since you touched on the Ancients connection to the structures of Angel Island, it should be worth noting that the ruins on Starfall Island had pinball machines. Meaning that mysterious casino in Sonic 3 & Knuckles that we've been scratching our heads over for years, may have actually been built by them after all 😆
And looking back at Sky Santurary Zone, those red teleporters (along with the ones in Hidden Palace Zone), have a slight visual resemblance to the effects of when a character is transported into Cyberspace. Specifically in the Knuckles prologue. So perhaps the Ancients built them as well?
In which case, perhaps the mural in Hidden Palace was shown to them via a vision from the Master Emerald (since SA1 shows that it can freely give people visions, and Sonic Rivals tells us it exist simultaneously at all points in time, so it would know about Sonic and Eggman's clash in the future), and they made the mural as a warning for future inhabitants? I dunno.. It’s an interesting thought experiment, but the idea seems quite plausible I think. What are you're thoughts?
The ancients almost certainly had a hand in the mysteries of Angel island. They may even be why it can float. The warp spheres of Sky Sanctuary likely were made by them for similar reasons. As for the Mural Vision, perhaps? I always saw that as Echidna prophecy though.
Hidden Palace also looks like Starfall island's underground. Same teal/purple/green color scheme.
Omg that future thing just blew my mind with the murals
I don't doubt that a lot of story content was cut from the game as its apparently obvious the "budget" ran out by the end of the 3rd island. The information we were given also brings up more question than answers like the master emerald origins and how do the temple of gaias fit in all of this if the chaos emeralds originated from outer space. Unless more information comes out, I don't think the story did a good job explaining a lot of these things but I'm at least glad Sonic lore seems to be a priority within Sonic Team now.
I agree with this assessment
From what I remember the Gaia temples look similar to sky sanctuary zone except for the color of the materials used, maybe the ancients built them in the brief period between coming to earth and dying? (yeah I know this post is a week old)
@@dap1489 Yeah I think the ancients did build sky sanctuary
My head canon is that the gaia temples just so happen to have 7 because of how the planet splits into 7 pieces. My theory is that a temple was placed there so the master emerald could be put into the temple no matter where it happened to be when the planet splits. And that putting the master emerald on any of the alters would put the planet back together since its more powerful than the chaos emeralds. And the recharging of the Emerald was just a side effect caused by eggman firing their power into the earth so it was just them reabsorbing their power.
@@iananderson4754 Not a bad idea. I don't think its what the developers intended, but still an interesting idea.
12:05 That’s wrong, it was mentioned in the flashback on on the 3rd island after beating the boss that the backup plan was to relocate to Angel Island through the portal. Of course some effort would have been made to rebuild Starfall island but the entire remaining population would have left eventually due to mental scars. Why would you want to come back to rebuild on a graveyard? Eggman didn’t know about the Backup plan like Sonic was exposed to. It was hidden behind locks that Sage didn’t want opened cause it would have released THE END, so he’s only working on the assumption that they all just died out, not evacuated to Angel Island (what they actually did)
Just a quick non-Sonic clarification, plenty of people / cultures have and continue to rebuild over lost/destroyed territory even if they are a graveyard (This is happening right now), so it isn't unreasonable for the ancients to do the same.
7:10
@@Alejandro333777 context please
I think the answers are these: Chao fundamentally corroded ancients. Eggman doesn't say it directly, but by saying their DNA corroded into a completely diffrent speicies after mentioning Chaos means that he is most definitely talking about the chao as to get from ancients to chaos, he would reasonably be taking a train stop to look at the chao. As Chaos looking like an ancient and having the same DNA wouldn't be a completely diffrent species. He would have to find some kind of reason for the DNA matching and Chaos being a mutated chao is that connection. So we have to assume some kind of radiation (that may be or not be from the Master Emerald itself) corroded the ancients DNA into being chao, and then Chaos is a chao that was mutated back to an ancient by accidental use of the Master Emerald.
However he has diffent characteristics due to the DNA being so diffrent and corroded at this point and the Master Emerald's powers being unpredictable he became somewhere in between a chao and ancient, with him regaining the appearance of an ancient, but also keeping the abilities of a chao.
Chao are able to mutate their body characteristics of other beings, but the mutations aren't perfect they can only change so much of their body to be that of other beings, however when they evolve they can completely change their appearance. we see this in chao gardens when raising a chao. Chaos was probably a chao that with the use of the Master Emerald super charged his ability of mutation and became an ancient through evolving (maybe he evolved while playing on the master emerald). As such with hus mutation ability he has much more control over his liquid new body than the ancients. He however has no knowledge of the ancients because at this time every ancient had evolved into the chao with no knowledge of their past. He still keeps the Chao abilities of mutation and with no real clue protects his speicies and the Master Emerald.
Then finally the reason why the Chaos Emeralds change him so much and add structures to him when chaos takes them in is simply his super charged mutation ability along with a bunch of Chaos Emerald fuckery, as their energy just does what ever the fuck it wants to do sometimes.
The Emeralds can be cruel gods ;)
My head cannon is over eons, like the game said, the Ancients eventually mutated into Chao which would explain Eggman saying they’re mutation would leave them “unrecognizable”. Then at some point one of the mutated Ancients turned Chao touched the Master Emerald which then brought the Chao back to a similar form to its original while also giving it extra abilities (such as being made of water, and being able to transform by absorbing the chaos emeralds). This is pretty much the only thing that makes sense to me.
Some issues I have with it are the fact that Koco husks can still be found at Sky Sanctuary, indicating at least some of the small group who went their died. Then there is the problem that if a handful of ancients did mutate into Chao, their numbers would have had been so low that the population couldn't have sustained itself.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor can't Chao like reincarnate each time they die same chaos as long as there happy their age won't kill them the mutation gave them a cursed form immortality.
@@justinorper6298 That would only be relevant IF the Chao are genetically related to the Ancients
I see a few clues throw into Knuckle's animation (and oddly enough the twitter take over 6???) where we see Flickies, Chao and Koco.
Flickies have the ability to fly between dimensions.
-Most older sonic games have the gems hidden in pocket dimensions.
Chao take on the aspects of creatures they come in contact with, even just the DNA.
-Chao take on animal aspects, but also sonic character aspects.
Koco are living totems that absorb the regrets and last will of their Ancient creators.
-The Ancients carried with them many regrets regarding their civilizations and their actions in life, but only on Starfall islands....
I don't know what any of this means, but your comment has me compiling all of this trivia trying to see if it tells a story. At the very least, we know all there of those creatures either directly affect the chaos emeralds or are affected by them and there are many more visual motifs sort of linking some of the artistic choices between the emeralds, the titans and the various critters. Heck, I'd bet money that having a chao play with and then put on a Koco mask is a writer/animator hinting at something.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor why do you assume their numbers would've been low to the point they couldn't evolve?
Ya know, I always thought the reason the Chaos Emeralds we're important to every known civilization, mythos, and random eldritch god was cus they are space time altering gems so they can technically be important to multiple places in multiple time placements
So a Multiverse?
@@TheRealMightyEmperor in a sense
Considering that Sonic has played around with pocket dimensions since the early days I would actually agree with this. No to the grand scale of a multiverse, but rather the ability to warp reality/time. Isn't that part in parcel the nature of chaos control?
I thought some Sonic games was a different multiverse even in the comics he can travel the multiverse, he even came across his evil twin scourge which also implies negative power in the chaos emeralds that scourge completely understands and with Sonic the positive power in the chaos emeralds that Sonic knows so well because for the games like Sonic Rush, Sonic riders even 06 are all reference even Tangled from IDW Comics is now reference so would that end the multiverse theory or imply Sonic traveled the multiverse games and all ? maybe like Sonic Prime that's supposed to be coming out lol
@@djangosouthwest6043 the games and comics use to be separate cannons with a few exceptions (brotherhood, cartoons, etc). Since IDW sonic started 5yrs ago, they have slowly started to decide what is part of a single timeline. Games and comics only (excluding Archie).
Sage says that the koco are lucky charms that the ancients wore (probably why the koco mask was on angel island), and since they just straight up stop living when the ancients' spirits leave them, I don't think the koco are actually alive themselves.
The hermit koco tells sonic that 'Just like the koco, you have touched the digital dream.' So we know the koco gained the memories from cyberspace, and didn't just have them by default. This probably means the koco were formed from the cyberspace memories, since inanimate objects wouldn't be able to coincidentally roll onto portals- especially not that many of them- even after thousands of years.
The chao, as covered, are probably ancients that escaped to angel island and mutated due to the master emerald (we more or less know it was the master emerald since it turned a chao into chaos, so it can definitely do the opposite.) Chaos- whilst similar- is not a complete recreation of the ancients. The reason for this is debatable but my theory is that the master emerald is very powerful, and probably just decided to make a more powerful version of the ancients (this is purely speculation.)
The thing I'm most confused about is where the phantom ruby comes into play. Its powers are similar to that of cyberspace and the visual effects are near identical, but It just doesn't fit into any of the plot points well enough to have a reason to exist.
I think that the ruby in mania and the one in forces are not the same: eggman claims to have made it in forces (the prototypes are proof that he is able to). In mania, you see him dig it up from the ground. My theory is that the natural phantom ruby- while powerful- wasn't 'weapon' enough to utilise against sonic, so he used it as a base to create a new one. This would explain why its abilities vary between games and why it needs a power source in forces but not mania. This, however, doesn't explain what the original ruby is unfortunately.
Tl,dr: chao are not koco, koco are not living, koco are from cyberspace, I don't have a clue about the phantom ruby. Any ideas?
When it comes to the Phantom Ruby I predominantly use Mania + Infinite uses of it as the "True" version, since forces royally messes everything up like it does. Regardless I also have no idea. I previously had a theory video about this topic but obviously the game proved me wrong there. At a completely random guess I may say the Ruby is some "waste product" of cyber space that condensed into the physical ruby, and the fact it is on Angel island is because that was where the last of the Ancients were.
As for the Ancient - Chao connections, I agree the Master Emerald has the most plausible explanation but I also still do not buy it. Unless we get new lore about the Master Emerald having somewhat of a conscience with goals, or a being that created it with goals, the ancients becoming Chao (which there would only have been a handful anyway) just sounds like a reach since they are supposed to die of within a generation.
What if it’s just a magical gem
@@robertwyatt3912 maybe, but it was found for the first time in two different timelines following the same event (generations) in both. If it was just a magical gem, modern eggman would have discovered it at the same moment in time as classic, but he didn't, it took him until forces whilst classic eggman had it by around triple trouble or something. I have reason to believe that it didn't exist until generations, and was created as a result of the game's events.
@@wolef3344 Well if it was created by those events, that seems pretty magical to me.
@@robertwyatt3912 you see, the use of the word 'must've (used as the adjective which is a synonym of 'simply'), connotes that the point of the prior comment is to imply that the ruby is a magical gem *and nothing more.* This resulted in my response being about how it is more than 'just' a magical gem, rather than agreeing that it is- indeed- magical.
Sorry for the formality, but sonic the hedgehog lore is serious, important business and should be treated as such.
Seems like it could be pretty simple. When the Master Emerald transformed a chao into Chaos, it based it on a species it previously encountered. So Chaos could just be its homage to them.
So does that mean if chaos dies he could be recreated by the Emerald to look like knuckles? Aqua knux.
The Ancients that died out as Koco/evolved into Choas likely built the shrines and Sky Sanctuary since the other Ancients on Starfall were attacked and couldn’t keep the Chaos Emeralds safe. The Ancients probably worshiped or feared some god of destruction at the shrine using the emeralds, maybe a form that the End took? Might be some sort of defense mechanism where the ME transforms a Choa into a mutated form of their ancestors while the Choas Emeralds are required to transform into a mimic of the God they worshiped from their planet, which is why Choas 0 needed Emeralds to slowly transform into the shrine and then perfect Choas.
In short the off world emeralds transformed Choas 0(or “Ancients form Choas”), into their off world God that has some unknown connection to the Choas emeralds. The Master Emerald from Earth turn the Choa into a form similar to the ancients because Choa evolved from Ancients, are known to take many forms, and maybe only an “Ancient” can transform into that form known as Perfect Choas? So many mysterious things that we’ll sure to learn more about
@@ColorHero I honestly can see the ancients becoming the chao, it's just too uncomfortable. Intelligent, advanced being turning into diminutive, child like animals the you breed? That's so god damned dark and disturbing.
Maybe the survivors became the water around the master emeralds shrine after they died and gave chaos its form.
@@bradleythomas3 They could have been some of the Children. Chaos is literally RELATED biologically to the Ancients.
Before I watch I want to say. Considering the ancients were never shown stretching or turning into shapes of water. It's fair to assume that the ancients were more akin to the chaos chao that were solid but translucent. So I think the water like abilities were granted by the master emerald when the ancients were still in the process of transforming into chao and that is why chaos looks like the middle ground for an ancient and a chao. Because he has a tail!
You had a similar though to me in that case, but I completely forgot to mention Chaos' tail!
I feel like it's fairly obvious that Eggman implies that the ancients that left to Angel Island slowly evolved into the Chao, and Chaos' mutation somehow "de-evolved" him into something more akin to the Ancients
One of my most favorite villains of all time and seeing all of the back story in sonic frontiers is insane to me
It was nice seeing chaos again
what I think could be the real explanation is that the ancients mutated into the chaos, and a Chao coming into contact with the master emerald somehow made the ancients corrupted DNA resurface, and the corrupted DNA made Chaos look and act more like water. If my theory is correct, that could explain why Chaos hasn't the intelligence of an ancient, and instead acts like a chao
I don't think the Ancients became the chao
@@TheRealMightyEmperor yeah i know it sounds a bit strange, but i'm 99% sure they'll explain more in the next game
@@TheRealMightyEmperor The Egg Memo number 11 says that the ancients DNA corroded to the point that they transformed into a new species, is it possible the chao is this new species he's talking about?
@@dap1489 Yes but I also already knew of this. That memo is very unclear as it also suggests the ancients died out rather quickly
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Maybe Eggman is trying to say that the ones who didn't evolve into chaos couldn't survive? But again I think the next game will reveal more about Sonic's world (sorry for the late reply)
They shared DNA, but the ancients were unrecognizable after centuries of evolution. Unrecognizable. That means their evolved form looks incredibly different from what we know of the ancients.
Chao look incredibly different than the ancients, and Chao can turn into chaos. Making Chao and chaos related. Ancients and Chao are related.
So ancients became Chao. Probably due to the master emeralds energy, and coming into direct contact with the master emerald allows them to regain a version of their ancient form.
There's no one in the game saying the KOKO are related to either Chao or chaos. Just the ancients themselves.
I am pretty sure the unrecognisable meant the actual DNA sequence, regardless of the visible differences
you are looking at this to broadly. The master emeralds radiation mutated the ones on angel island into chao. Time passes and for some unkown reason, the master emerald mutated a chao back into its water form. although this form was incomplete looking like both a child and an adult. The brain could be the remnants of when it was a chao.
Seeing how we will be getting story DLC for Frontiers in the future, I really hope a lot of these questions do get answered
As do I. The ending set a lot of things up
I always figured that Chaos being related to the Ancients meant that a Chao mutating into Chaos would be their true state. And the Chao is what happens when they're no longer exposed to Chaos energy. Sort of like how we went from wolves to domesticated dogs. From powerful and vicious, to more innocent and friendly
This is how I understand it, the ME, CEs and all life were created by the actual gods (Classic era manuals, plus the mere existence of Solaris, Chip and Dark Gaia) and originally all existed on Earth. However, after some kind of event, most likely either other aliens like the Black Arms stealing them or the Gaia cycle displacing them, the CE were lost to space where they were found by the Ancients. The Ancients only assumed they originated from space due to their lack of knowledge, thus the ME catching them off guard as it needs the CEs to solely exist on Earth for the Gaia cycle.
As for the species, while both forms of life do come from the Ancients, they are two separate branches, (thus the similarities) death and possessing the charm for the kokos or ME transforming the Angel Island branch for some reason and making them more spirit like in the process and thus becoming eternal via the reincarnation cycle. (at the cost of their sapience) Chaos was actually somewhat restored to serve as a guardian. (though now that I think of it the chao also serve kinda as stewards if taking the past of the Knuckles tribe and the angel and demon imagery into account) Eggman knows this because he has Chaos' bio data due to two different opportunities, both involving Froggy. (Froggy getting Chaos' tail or Metal Sonic) Considering the CEs can resurrect people and "turn wishes into power" it isn't a stretch that they can grant eternal life.
I like some of what you have here, but ultimately just like my own Theory it relies heavily on some core assumptions
Oooh, I see! So the Ancients that went to Angel Island devolved into the Chao (with the "radiation" presumably coming from the Master Emerald), but the ones left on the Starfall Islands quickly died out during their last confrontation with "the End." And their memories were passed into their charms through some phenomenon with Cyberspace, thus creating the Koco. I suppose that much makes sense at least, though the history of the Emeralds themselves is still quite iffy for me. If they were made by the gods like the classic manuals imply, then it's not impossible that they'd all be made on Earth specifically, because we know multiple gods reside on the planet, or are connected to it in some way. Perhaps an unknown god (also connected to earth) is what created them before they were seemingly displaced?
Also, if the Master Emerald can mutate an entire species THAT much simply by being in its radius, that also raises some questions about the Echidna as well. Perhaps that's why some of them have connections to the Master Emerald (like Knuckles and Tikal)? It was just a side effect of having their civilization built around it?
@@DLxxx
The interesting thing about your idea in the final paragraph is that the ME for some reason has always been implied to be somewhat sapient, (going as far as giving Knuckles visions without Tikal's aid) so I would not be surprised if manipulated events to always have someone protecting it.
I honestly like the idea that the Chaos Emeralds originally were from Earth like the Master Emerald better. But were drawn back to their origin where their original controller resided (Earth's Master Emerald, not the copy the Ancients tried to create) for the Gaia Cycle when the Time of Awakening happened again previously.
Also, the Ancients I believe didn't turn into the Chao as another branch, they instead were mutated with said mutation influenced by the lingering energies of Light and Dark Gaia into energy beings similar to them. While the Light Chaos Chao that became Chaos was already a liquid-like lifeform as a Chao, becoming a liquid Chaos energy creature instead of a being of pure energy with a similar form like the Ancients.
In case I was too confusing, I believe the Ancients were mutated similarly to Chaos by the scattered Chaos Emeralds, but in a different way than Chaos.
Some really good theories in this thread!! I think linking Light and Dark Chao to Gaia (also a titan/primordial of Greek nomenclature btw) is a big step in tying some of the confusing/conflicting lore together. I also subscribe to the idea that the emeralds where all together before the Ancients discovered them but am unsure if there is anything in the lore to support that. We'd have to know more about their origin.
It could be that chaos emeralds spontaneously formed on different planets, and the master emerald was just another chaos emerald that, due to an unexplained process (that might even have to do with how the Earth happens to have embodiments of light and darkness in its core, the latter of which happens to be capable to shatter the world and keep the continents floating in a similar way to Angel island), grew in size and power. It's also possible chaos energy works a bit like gravity or electromagnetism for the chaos emeralds, so a larger source of energy would draw smaller sources to it.
That might explain why the chaos emeralds seemed to have been attracted by the master emerald once near Earth.
I am not confused over the Master Emerald attracting the Chaos Emeralds, that is perfectly understandable. As for spontaneous Chaos Emeralds, it is possible for sure. But the Ancients seem to state all the Chaos Emeralds are from their world, no all over space.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Oh. I didn't recall that part. Then maybe it's because the methods of the gems' formation were slightly different. In one planet, the ancients' homeworld, chaos energy took shape in the form of seven jewels, and in another planet, Earth, it formed a single, larger gem. By this logic, the reason the master emerald is so powerful might simply be because, to form the chaos emeralds, whatever energy or matter caused their creation world would have had to split in seven equal parts, while the same did not happen with the master emerald.(Although I'm still quite sure the presence of Light and Dark Gaia would have also contributed to its greater power, since they're pure positive and negative energy)
@@ironcloud3463 Something other commentors have pointed out is that the Emeralds coming from space doesn't mesh well with Gaia Temples needing Emeralds
@@TheRealMightyEmperor it could be that the stuff with the ancients happened far enough in the past to let ancient humans discover the emeralds' power, their connection to the Gaias (It's safe to assume Light and Dark are universal constants, so even across distant galaxies the emeralds would have similar, yet not as concentrated, positive and negative energy) and build the Light Gaia temples.
@@ironcloud3463 The Problem is Gaia existed since the start of time, presumably the very important role the emeralds play would also have started with them.
Chaos didn’t die because he was sealed in the master emerald by Tikal. Tikal also survived because she was sealed with him despite Echidna’s having regular life spans.probably like a suspended animation kind of deal, they basically time travelled to when Eggman released them from the Master Emerald.
Tikal was dead, she was a spirit. Chaos was real though and I never assumed he died from being sealed. What I meant was once he was sealed I was no longer worried about if he had a life span.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor The last thing we see in Sonic Adventure with Tikal is her pleading/convincing the Master Emerald to intervene with Chaos having gone mad with rage- so Tikal seems to have become a spirit/immortal then, and basedo n the Sonic Frontiers prologue showing Tika's light and Chaos's Ripples(tho he reappeared in Sonic battle)- They are still alive. Credit to tvtropes for spotting that chaos and tikal are shown in sega's prologue video. They're not dead, thouhg ...perhaps 'spirits'
And chaos has no more rage in him after Super Sonic eliminated it
@@tippership I already agreed that Chaos and Tikal post being sealed in the Master Emerald were immortal spirit like beings so no issue. I was just wondering about before then. (Also a lot of use noticed Tikal and Chaos in the animation). Chaos potentially being an ancient just made me bring up if that would make sense for the time he had to be alive, it seems he cannot be an actual ancient due to this.
On top of all this, Eggman got most, if not all info from Cyber Space, right? And if it is confirmed that several Ancients moved to Angel Island, it makes sense that what is recorded in Cyber Space is true, specifically for what occurs on the Starfall Islands. The Ancients on the Starfall Islands died within a generation and that is what is recorded in the data, but they didn't have a way to communicate with the ones on Angel Island and those continued to live through the eons, getting changed by the radiation of the Master Emerald and getting changed into Chao. Chaos, through that same power was mutated, and his dormant genes reactivated and he changed to resemble the Ancients once more, but he is not identical to them, as he has already been heavily altered by the Master Emerald, and presumably that allows him to harness the other emeralds. And with the Master Emerald already attracting the Chaos Emeralds, it would stand to reason that the Chaos Emeralds were driven by the Master Emerald to leave the Starfall Islands, eventually putting Cyber Space in a sort of sleep mode, never to be updated or used in any sort of way until Frontiers.
At least, that's how I can make sense of it
It does make sense, however, sky sanctuary has a working Cyber Space portal so the ancients there could still access it
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Ah that's true, but that was after Eggman and Sage had activated Cyber Space again.. But it does bring to question why Eggman couldn't find any more data on the Ancients who moved away... Hmm..
This is a great video and highlights alot of the problems I have with Frontiers’ lore. I’m going to be honest, the Chaos Emeralds not being from Earth/Sonic’s world is probably my biggest overall issue with the new lore and now there’s even more hoops that have to be jumped through in order to tie everything together. I also am not a fan of the ancients as a concept. If they *had* to have the ancients, I’d say the best way to do it is that they are run off by The End, just like the story suggests, but then they search for a new planet with a more reliable and stronger power source. That being the Master Emerald *and* the Chaos Emeralds of Earth/Sonic’s world. That tiny adjustment could already fix so much. Although it still wouldn’t explain the ancients as a species and how they actually relate to Chaos.
In everyone's excitment for the new game people are quick to just accept all new information without checking first. Regardless on if my theories are right or not, we certainly could do with some clarification.
Trey!! So cool to see you engaging in the discussion around Frontiers :D
I agree though, it was a VERY strange move to have the Emeralds come from space. While their exact origins have always been unknown, there were still strong implications that they were at least made ON Sonic's world. The fact that they're connected to the Gaia Temples and can be recharged by the planet (as well as the Master Emerald, their literal controller, always being on earth), directly conflicts with the idea that they originated in space. At the very least it makes their history significantly more convoluted than it needed to be (you're proposed alternative would've actually been MUCH cleaner, since they didn't even make the Titans till they arrived on Earth _anyway,_ so nothing about the main plot would need to be changed).
@@DLxxx . The fact that they're connected to the Gaia Temples and can be recharged by the planet (as well as the Master Emerald, their literal controller, always being on earth), directly conflicts with the idea that they originated in space. " This isn't a conflict at all. A correlation with the gaia temples doesn't mean it originated from Earth; it's just a correlation, that's it. We don't know why the gaia temples were built for the emeralds, but I think that'll be explained in the future. People gotta remember that from here on out, Sonic games will be ALOT more connected, meaning more lore will come and explain things. However, my theory is that the emeralds must've came to earth one time and solidified itself as a power source for the gaia temples? Or perhaps another energy source was empowering the gaia temples before the emeralds and is similar to the chaos emeralds.
@@Prime_Legend Fair point about them appearing to aim for a more connected story in future Sonic games (at least, based on the direction of Frontiers). I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to answer some of these lingering questions in the upcoming DLC. Though to be clear: I wasn't saying it _couldn't_ work, just that it was a strange move because it can over complicate things if not handled well.
As for your theory, I saw someone else theorize that perhaps the Master Emerald was used in place of the Chaos Emeralds prior to their arrival. Which.. is plausible.
@@Prime_Legend thank you
This is a MAJOR issue I have with Frontiers. I respect that they wanted to try to do more regarding story. But I fear this level of either retconning or just outright contradiction harms the continuity. I love Sonic Adventure so much. And I care deeply about its lore. And just feel worried that its being affected.
I hear you. One the one hand seeing Adventure actually get acknowledge alongside other long ignored content is great! On the other hand some of the integration is a bit rough (regardless of it there is an explanation or not) which rubs the risk of distorting aspect of the material Frontiers is trying to pay homage to.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I’d love to hear your thoughts regarding a common theory that ancients evolved into Chao. In Egg Memo 11, it alludes to them evolving to a new species. I feel like there are still holes personally but would love ur thoughts!
@@EmuEmi I find that really difficult to believe. A lot of my viewers here on the comments have had a variety of opinions on how it is true, with some more reasonable than others. For me personally, the fact that the Chao and Ancients are so radically different means the only way this could have happened was if all the survivors mutated in the exsact same way to all become Chao.
This is enough for some people, but we have never actually seen the Master Emerald act like an unstable radioactive bomb. Chaos seems to be the exception for Mutation and was likely a Chaos Chao to begin with. The Master Emerald possibly mutated him to protect other Chao.
If the Master Emerald does mutate all the ancients, why haven't put heroes or Eggman ever had any strange alterations? (Super forms do not count as those are temporary).
And just in case someone brings up the Koco, Frontiers flat out tells us they are not real but possessed charms.
Uhmm. I'm sorry but the master emerald is so unstable that breaking it makes all pieces scatter throught the world, like a BOMB.
My theory is that since the chaos energy reacts to there heart, the master emerald's energy changed them to what there heart wanted because by nature them seem to be a dosical species that did not want war or volience. It's kind of like how people evolved over time losing things that were required to survive. So the koco evolved with the master emerald's energy losing things they don't need in the process like high intelligence, because you would not need that if you were just trying to live. This can explain why chaos can't speak or do thing to complicated because he is evolved not to do these things
I love being interested in Sonic lore for the first time in ages. Lol
That is a good sign!
I like to think the master emerald made chaos immortal and a proper god since he’s still treated as a god even after the events of SA where he came back from heaven in a game I forgot the name off
After he was sealed for sure, before that maybe
Sonic Battle is what you're thinking of as that's the game where Knuckles even remarks Chaos appears in times of great crisis. And it was also why thought that was the reason for his return in Forces but we all know how that went down with the story potential. -_-
Chaos got the Picolo treatment. Started out as a god/demon only for ti to be revealed that he was an alien all along.
Can't wait for him to raise Sonic's Son
about the emeralds and master emerald
consider this
both planets had atleast 1 brilliant cut gemstone brimming with the EXACT same type of energy.
that would hint that ALL the emeralds arent native to the planets they were found on.
and that there could be more
and that something major happened a long long time ago
tldr
the emeralds were originally together (or even ONE super massive chaos planet?)
something happened and they were scattered across the stars
Maybe. So far nothing supports this however as even Black Doom felt there were only 7 Chaos Emeralds and he could travel through space.
After playing the game, I was surprised to be right to a degree about the Kuco being ancient Chao, given the whole Chao in Space parody background visual gag and animated short, and connection to Chaos. Of course I could be wrong there and just thinking out of loud. I'm personally under the impression that someone on the writing team either forgot or overlooked details in their research when doing the Kucos being alien versions of Chaos the Mutated Chao. And yes there are points of the game where it's so confusing like the Chaos Emeralds being from space yet the Master Emerald is on Earth, or how Eggman managed to figure out the DNA comparison when both are seemingly made out of water like substance. Perhaps it's set up like this because there's still more mysteries to discover around the origins of the Chaos Emeralds, Master Emerald, and Chao if this is the direction that Sega and Sonic Teamm wanna go towards just to bring back some of the Sonic lore many of us were craving for in the past decade. And there could've been better ways to handle the mysteries explanation better, but mysteries are meant to be solved and cracked by looking into things. Granted, sometimes there's no perfect answer, but life itself is complicated.
More lore is something we desperately need
Well the Koko and Chao could have a divergent origin. From what I saw in one of the Amy cutscenes is that the Koko as rock people who protect themselves using a humanoid form that resembled Chaos.
@@zenvariety9383 When you get further into the game you will learn more about them
10:14 the same way Metal was able to copy Chaos's data using Froggy or he could have gotten it from the Egg carrier wreckage
we know that chaos and by extension chao are indeed descendants of the ancients as the egg memos outright say it for chaos and says the ancients evolved to be unrecognisable due to master emerald radiation, we also know that some ancients migrated to what would eventually become angel island bringing the chaos emeralds along with them whilst the ancients on the starfall islands were preparing for the arrival of the end.
the ancients arrived tens of thousands of years prior to the games which is the same time given for the last time light and dark gaia awakened.
we also know that the master emerald is sentient.
because we know that chaos is a mutated chao we can assume that chao are the unrecognisable form the ancients mutated into as 1: chaos being a mutated chao and a descendent of the ancients means that the chao have to be related to the ancients and
2: the chao look nothing like the ancients (barring chaos).
using this we can theorise that the master emerald, being aware of dark and light gaia awakening soon uses its control over the chaos emeralds to summon the passing by chaos emeralds to earth as their power can aid in speeding up the process of restoring the earth,upon arriving on earth the ancients split up into two groups, the starfall island ancients: the ancients that stayed behind on the starfall islands because they were either unable to join the other group leaving for some reason, or staying to prepare to fight the end, who all died when the end attacked.
and the angel island ancients who left to bring the chaos emeralds to the master emerald who built the ancient ruins on angel island upon arriving to angel island the master emerald somehow communicated to the ancients about light and dark gaia who then proceeded to travel the globe building the gaia temples to aid light gaia and the master emerald in restoring the earth quicker explaining why the gaia temples are designed to use the emeralds power, after building the temples the ancients returned to angel island where the built many of the ruins and through some means were able to prophocise events in the future (possibly through the master emerald) such as sonic fighting dr eggman over the master emerald and chaos attacking station square.
however the extended time spent around the master emerald caused them to mutate and over many generations evolve into the chao by the time civilisation was starting to get advanced, weher the echidnas had gotten power hungry and tried to steal the emeralds for themselves, the master emerald responded by scattering the chaos emeralds to south island (and westside island for the 7th emerald) possibly awakening some ancient dna within one of the chao mutating it into chaos however the ancient dna had been coroded over so many generations that chaos while having some notable similarities was also fairly different too, the master emerald also likely gave chaos the ability to utilise the emeralds to get stronger.
from threats to atone for their mistake and eventually leaving knuckles with the responsibility on his own until i met sonic and had learnt to rely on others for assistance
That's an interesting idea you have there that the Master Emerald attracts the Chaos Emeralds in relation to Gaia. Although, we have no indication that the Master Emerald has that level of conscious, nor a reason to care even if it did.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor the master emerald is aware of the locations of its shards and even guids knuckles to the egg carrier to gather it showing that it has that consciousness and it has a reason to care, self preservation (which was shown woth the emerald guiding knuckles to the egg carrier to gain its remaining shards) as if earth is destroyed so is the master emerald
*whistles* This was quite the read! I love how you managed to cohesive connected all of these far flung dots together into a story of its own. The Ancients could very well be the root of so many of the things we've seen in the series!
Though it doesn't quite explain why the Master Emerald would be light years away from the Chaos Emeralds, I think I can swallow that somewhat.. It'd be acceptable if we don't get any concrete origin for the Emeralds (otherwise, it could take away their mystique and storytelling potential).
I think we should also talk about Gaia's temples, and the fact that chaos emeralds are recharged through them, how can these temples exist if the emeralds came from another planet? supposedly the temples of gaia are as old as light and dark gaia themselves, so they couldn't have been built by the ancients, are there temples like these on each planet? is there a dark and light gaia on each planet?
Gaia lends itself more to the mini theory at the end of the video, where in decpit good intentions whoever wrote this overlooked some of the lore
Yeah, the Emerald's connection to the Gaia cycle really does imply they were made on Earth originally (especially considering the planet itself can recharge them, and the Master Emerald was already there). I guess we just have to assume the Emeralds were taken off the planet at some point, and made their way back thanks to the Ancients.
@@DLxxx Incredibly messy
@@TheRealMightyEmperor So after listening to some dialogue between Sonic and Sage, the game explicitly says the Chaos Emeralds came from space afterall. It's not just implied.
Sonic: "I'm so used to using the Chaos Emeralds it's kinda hard to believe they're from space."
Sage: "Yes. They were central to the Ancients power and native to their world."
Sage is pulling this data from Cyberspace/the Ancients recorded history, so that implies the Ancients themselves believed the Emeralds were from their own home planet. Meaning they must have been with the Ancients a long time for that belief to spread around.
@@DLxxx Indeed, hence my confusion about how this effects the lore. Especially in relation to Gaia.
My idea is, is that chaos is more of an amoeba so he can absorb pretty much anything. The fact he can transform due to the emeralds is probably because he ultimately is still a chao. With the master emerald I think it probably floated threw space after the creation event and wound up falling to angel island. Now since the koco Charms r clearly inside there bodies they would most likely contain their DNA so since chaos is an amoeba like creature he probably absorbed the eroded koco charm bits into him which then fused into his dna
So far this is actually among the more believable ideas I have heard that tries to explain the Ancients connection to Chaos. Nice work.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor thank u kind being, finally... a use for the useless amoeba knowledge from high-school biology class
A lot of Frontier was handled by Ian Flynn a prolific writer of the Archie abd IDW Sonic comics, an interesting note from the comics is the Chais Emeralds came from soace in the comics in an event called Chaos Fall, this wiped out most of the Mobosaur's as green emeralds rained down on Earth.
We later learn during a deep space arc and other aliens that a similar event happened on 6 other worlds, eventually all these countless eneralds of varying colors are summoned to Mobius and fused together into 7 main emeralds.
Its possible Ian Flynn is referencing this udea which is interesting considering he didnt write any of those issues they happened before he joined the staff.
An in univetse exlkaination also going by other similar artofavts like the Phantom Ruby, Super Rings, Sol Emeralds, World Rings, Time Stones, and the Black Onyx the Sonic universe has all sorts of crazy mcguffin items and it was weord the Black Arms knew how to do Chaos Control.
We know now that the ancients likely became the Chao and Chaos is thus likely a gebetic throwback and do to his prolonged exposure to tje emerald energies its possible he gained tje ability to tap into their power in a way the ancients who took a more scientific rather then spiritual approach ever could.
All I know is Archie Comics have no impact on the games
@@TheRealMightyEmperor true but a key writer of the comics wrote Frontiers and he even put in a line referencing a comic character he made Tangle the Lemur.
@@doujinloverXD IDW comics are tied to the games by SEGA, Archie never was
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I'm not arguing that I am merely saying that the Chaos Emeralds being from space isn't a new idea abd Ian Flynn likely was aware of this so he could be rehashing the idea in a new way.
@doujinloverXD Ah maybe. But I remember Ian saying Sega took some of his suggestions more literally than he thought they would.
I don't understand it either but I think is a good start is how you can get a chaos chao from sa2 one of the things you need to do is give the chao every animal in the game and reincarnate twice so the most I can make is somehow chaos got some of the ancients (DNA as we've seen when a chao gets an animal's DNA it copies some of its appearance)was about at its reincarnating phase when it got mutated by the master emerald giving it chaos abilities like shadow(who has direct link to the chaos emeralds cause of the black arms link)and as you can see he's made of water don't know how that would fit in tho do you have anyway of how
That doesn't fill in any of the missing gaps unfortunately
@@TheRealMightyEmperor what gaps do you mean?
@@sethmushambavanhu8391 I mention them near the end of the Video
As far as I thought while nearing the end of my playthrough, I wish it was confirmed by Eggman or characters, but my theory while playing is that the Koco charms were left behind and the ancients didn't actually die out like everyone was thinking. But instead, they evolved into the chao.
As for Chaos, I figured the retcon would be that Chaos wasn't a chao that mutated due to the Master Emerald but was actually an Ancient that was chosen by the rest to receive artificial enhancements using the power of the Master Emerald to become Perfect Chaos by using all 7 Chaos Emeralds, and thus Perfect Chaos was what lead the fight against The End and the one who sealed her away in Cyberspace.
After the exceedingly costly battle, Chaos was tasked with guarding all the emeralds and watched as his species slowly evolved into Chao over millions of years due to difficulty adjusting to Earth Life without the use of their destroyed tech.
Of course, after beating the game, the only part of my theory that might still ring true is that the Ancients evolved into the Chao.
Yeah it's all very confusing isn't it?
My little theory on its creation is that the Choas emerald and the Master emerald weren't made by the same creator but instead it is created with the same energy, chaos energy. Like who's to say that the energy used to create it is only used in one planet.
That's fair, but if so clearly the Master Emerald creator puts the other to shame
Oh yes most definitely. Though I can get the confusion on how it is a massive coincidence that all the emeralds have the same shape. But I do feel like that this is only the beginning and that, like many things with Sonic Frontiers, they might answer more questions on the future games.
@@1000shadowmario maybe crystalized chaos energy automatically turns into a diamond shape?
13:06 "there is no water" "cut and dry" what a funny joke
😉
Also, "Chaos Theory" being a reference to ACTUAL chaos theory 😆
Here's how I squared away the Chaos Emeralds being on the Ancients world. We all know the Chaos Emeralds are able to warp time and space and end up in mundane to wildest places as in special stages, which are like strange pocket dimensions.
Who's to say they were used at some point but got warped to the Ancients world? But they were technologically sophiscated enough to build a Society that could function with them, even able to keep them housed so they don't disspear, which is why in Frontiers Sonic has to retrieve most of them from stasis in each island. Then when they fled their world they got in to close proximity to the Master Emerald. In that way maybe even calling them back home? Which allows the Gaia Temple lore to still exist in that at one point they were on Earth and then they were absent (Which is Nothing New to Chaos Emeralds) then they got drawn back? You can even argue that the same could of happend to the Black Arms at some point the only other confirmed alien species and society that knew of the Chaos Emeralds, but they may not been as technologically advanced as the ancients which Eggman alludes to in one of his notes.
And I agree with the Sentiment that the Ancients diverged into two groups. The ones on the starfall islands didn't leave and got wiped out, maybe frozen with grief or regret their wills or memories the ones that died tragically got imprinted into the Koco's that Sonic and the others help them work through. The other group encountered Angel Island tried adapting at some point as evidence of the tower Knuckles stumbled upon and failed being mutated by the Emeralds until they became Chao like beings, then a Chaos Chao made contact with the Master Emerald and became Chaos as we knew him? Mutated and all. His longevity or life span? Chaos Chao are already immortal in nature anyway so it could have survived whatever the Master Emerald put it through making it a perfect vessel.
Pretty good way of looking at things. Good point with the Chaos Emeralds as well, if that is the case my question would be for how long were they absent from Earth?
@@TheRealMightyEmperor That is a good question and for a specific time frame I don't know. I tried to leave as much as what we know about the Chaos Emeralds track record of showing up in the strangest of places as the most compelling part of the theory leaving little to pure headcanon.
Though if I had to delve into it my take given the whole Gaia Temples being attributed to being millions of years sort of cycle maybe one could argue they could of got separated after a cycle of Light Vs Dark Gaia on Earth and appeared on a different world entirely. It's speculation whether the Ancients already had advanced enough of a civilization to use the Chaos Emeralds on the Daily or it helped elevated their progression.
Either way based on what we know in game and from other games, Dark Doom supposedly left some of his invasion force Dormant on Earth some 2,000 years ago according to Shadow the Hedgehog, and The Echinda tribe may have been wiped out not too far from that prior. In Frontiers they constantly hammer in how old the Ancients seem to be compared to most ancient civilizations and the Master Emerald was found just in the dirt in Frontiers in a Flash Back, suggesting it they could have arrived before even the Echidna Tribe even formed.
So for the sake of argument the Ancients predated most ancient civilizations alien or other wise on Earth save for the Gaia Temples given how integral are to the Earth and the Cycle of Light and Dark Gaia. Maybe after one cycle the Chaos Emeralds disappeared ended up on the Ancients world for an unspecified period of time only to get drawn back by the Master Emerald. The Ancients could of built some of the structures on Angel Island but struggled to adapt to a primative world one way or another until the Echidna Tribe rose to prominence in their place.
@@Naruku2121 If it was not between the most recent cycles I have no idea how it would work.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor My guess? It could of been fresh off the Cycle before Unleashed. We don't have any history that I'm aware of anything of their past ones. As likely the only being who would even need to make use of the Emeralds around that time would no doubt be Chip/Light Gaia anyone else would be pure speculation.
Here's an interesting thought: we know that the Black Arms, specifically Black Doom, has the power to use Chaos abilities without an Emerald (as seen very early on in the game when he warps himself and Shadow to the Glyphic Canyon), which was a trait passed on to Shadow that Gerald would further develop.
So perhaps instead of using the Emeralds to power technology, the Black Arms instead conducted biological experiments on themselves? Actually, now that I think about it, there's some _very_ strong evidence for this in hindsight. First of all, the Black Comet itself is a living organism, and most of their weapons in the game are based on organic materials as well. So it would make sense that they would take a more biological approach to improving themselves, as opposed to a technological one like the Ancients. Secondly, if you read the sequel comic to Shadow The Hedgehog (named "Shadow Fall"), this is EXACTLY what they do! Eclipse was born through their attempts to evolve their own DNA as a counter to Shadow, and the "Dark Arms" are revealed to be wisps infused with Black Arms DNA (so they used Hyper Go On energy to evolve themselves, setting a precedent for them having potentially done the same thing with the Chaos Emeralds).
This is my theory with the Chaos Emeralds. I don’t think they actually originated on The Ancients’ planet, but rather were created alongside the Master Emerald, by whatever means brought them about. With that in mind, looking back on the Sonic franchise as a whole, the Chaos Emeralds always seem to appear where they’re meant to. Like on South Island in Sonic 1, West Side Island in Sonic 2, ect.
My best guess is that the Chaos Emeralds, at one point or another, were meant to appear to The Ancients’ because, ultimately, The Ancients’ were meant to use the Chaos Emeralds to bring about a way to defeat The End, and eventually would be returned to the Master Emerald.
And while this hasn’t appeared in an official Sonic game, we have had Chaos Emeralds dispersed across different planets before in Sonic X season 3. Whether that fact could be considered plausible to the main game canon, I’m unsure, but I mainly bring it up due to the fact there’s precedent for the Chaos Emeralds being on a different planet from the Master Emerald. It’s possibly implied Sonic caused the dispersal across different planets himself, but I think WHERE the Chaos Emeralds ended up was important and that the Chaos Emeralds chose where to end up in the universe after being released by Sonic.
So, perhaps one time they were used and then subsequently released, they were sent to the The Ancients’ planet, and they were eventually discovered and used which was ultimately meant to bring about the destruction of The End. That’s my take, anyway. Otherwise, I feel the Chaos Emeralds always end up a little TOO close together to be a coincidence, whether it be on the same island, continent, or the fact it’s always the same planet unless forcibly moved elsewhere. I think they’re always where they’re meant to be, and that seems to be how it always has worked in Sonic canon.
The emeralds after use are scattered away from one another, factor in the light year distance to earth on top of that and its unlikely all would be on the ancients home world if they were not created their.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I understand the likelihood is astronomically low for that to happen at random, which is why I have the stance the Chaos Emeralds almost have a type of sentience in which they will appear where they’re meant to be at any given time. I mean, the likelihood that all 7 Chaos Emeralds would appear on West Island in Sonic 2 seems just as low considering it’s one small island out of hundreds. In other words, the Chaos Emeralds kind of go by their own rules. But obviously, no one really knows how the Chaos Emeralds work anyway, so that’s my best attempt at explaining it with established Sonic canon.
I think the chaos emeralds are probably attracted to literal chaos. Like, conflict and stuff. They appear where rapid change is going to happen. Usually, they stay on the same planet for long periods of time, because there would have to be a massive amount of conflict to draw them to other planets, (like, for instance, a universe-ending manifestation of entropy.)
@@jadonh they do have sentience considering Sonic Rush and Rush Adventure, those two games talk about how the Chaos Emeralds were acting always on the heroes advantage there ( they even speculated that it wanted Sonic and Blaze to win. )
There is also the fact that Sonic doesn't consider a coincidence the chaos emeralds being assembled when he found them in colors DS.
We can also talk about the fact that the chaos emeralds can also travel through time like in 2006 or not be affected by time at all in generations.
This never changed the way Knuckles’ ancestors saw Chaos.
7:10 right there it was explained that half the ancients went to the master emerald while the other half eggman said died out
@17:31-.-Given how the main writer of this game (Ian Fluen) is a diehard sonic fan, I doubt the “lack of research” explanation.
I was referring to his superiors there. As Ian has said numerous times, he had minor influence on the story and full control of the English script, but the meat of the plot was not in his hands.
What if the Master Emerald was 1 of 7 Master Emeralds scattered around the universe?
That would be an interesting turn. We're all the others lost/destroyed? Stuff to think about.
GOOD VIDEO
Thank You! I love your work by the way :)
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Thanks so much!! 💙💙💙
I just thought the ancients evolved into chao over time lol
If it wasn't for the fact that they seemed to have gone extinct in a short amount of time, I would have thought so too
Here's my theory I think that the ancients were ancestors to the chao overtime when they died out their dna created a brand new species which are the chao that's why when that one chao touched the master emerald it turn him to the origin species that made his dna which were the ancients
Just throwing some random ideas out there:
I don’t think it’s far fetched to think the chaos emeralds and Master emerald have a shared origin despite how far away they were from each other. Hypothetically, if the super emeralds, the time stones from CD, the Secret Rings, and the Sol Stones from Sonic Rush are all canon, what if it’s possible that there’s a link between all of them? We could possibly even throw the phantom ruby in there tho I forget whether Eggman had a hand in creating that or not. Who’s to say that there isn’t also other emerald adjacent power sources on other planets as well?
When it comes to the Ancients/Coco/Chao, I’d argue that Chaos Chao already bare resemblance to the ancients where even if Chaos never came to being, the resemblance would be uncanny. We’ve seen in Sonic ‘06 that the chaos emeralds have the power of revival so I think it’d be possible that the coco that found their way to Angel Island/Sky Sanctuary could have been reincarnated by the Chaos/Master Emerald into the Chao wherein their strongest state as a Chaos Chao brings them closer to their original form. Chaos happened to evolve passed that point to take a form even closer to that of the original Ancients. What makes Chaos different from the Ancients is that in SA2 Chaos Chao are immortal so Chaos may have also achieved a state of immortality where the Ancients did not. I think it’s also safe to then assume that Chaos came into creation with both the power of the chaos emeralds AND the Master Emerald making Chaos vastly superior to the Ancients.
All of this is possible, but we don't have enough to go on to be sure
Chao take on the form of whatever creature they interact with. It is possible that a chao was found by one of the ancients, and the chao mimicked the appearance of one of the ancients, so the ancient who found the chao was intrigued by it's ability, so they experimented on it by placing it on top of the master emerald. By then, the transformation was complete, and being infused with the energy from the master emerald had caused it's lifespan to far exceed any normal species. The ancients likely worshiped Chaos and the Chao, and built the shrine not for the master emerald, but for Chaos. Chaos and the chao would make the shrine their home. During the attack from the end, Chaos likely used the power of the master emerald to protect the chao and its self, hence why Chaos survived the end. It is reasonable to believe the reason why Chaos has DNA from the ancients is because he copied them much like a chao would copy a penguin, gorilla, otter, or rabbit.
An interesting theory, although it puts you at odds with the more popular theory of those who believe all Chao are genetic decendents of the Ancients
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I’m thinking maybe the chao aren’t descendants of the ancients. Maybe they were around at about the same time, and the one who copied the appearance of the ancients is Chaos. You could argue that a chao with gorilla arms is mutated. That’s not something the chao had hatched with. It’s the result of them taking the DNA of the gorilla, and adding a small portion of that DNA to their body. Any chao that doesn’t gain strength solely through chaos energy (via the master emerald, or chaos emeralds before Adventure 2, chaos drives during Adventure 2) can be considered mutated, because they have attributes that don’t naturally occur. My theory is that the chao use chaos energy as their primary source of strength, and the ones who stay far from the master emerald or chaos emeralds can’t use chaos energy, so as a cheat, they copy the DNA of whatever animals they can find. Here’s a possible story. The ancients arrive on earth, and not too long after, the chao migrate to the master emerald to revive their seasonal chaos energy feeding. One of the ancients stumbles across a chao who was struggling to make its way to the master emerald. The ancient picks it up, and gently carries the small Chao over to the emerald, where it receives it’s first energy feeding since it was hatched. It became comfortable around the ancient. We’ll name him Fred for simplicity’s sake. Fred and Chaos begin to bond more, and one day, the chao samples Fred’s DNA, and inherits Fred’s appearance.
@@beanmchocolate3900 Next thing you know Fred will get erased by a copyright strike issued by Ken Penders
@@TheRealMightyEmperor 🤣Exactly, nothing strikes fear into people's hearts like a man child who thinks everyone is his OC.
I just thought of something really grim. When the ancients die, their charms are left behind. and when knuckles found the koco mask, it was under a bunch of rubble, conveniently covering a cyberspace portal. Maybe the portal was transporting a bunch of the ancients to sky sanctuary, and the last one to leave quickly pulled out the portal gear, before being crushed to death under the rubble of a cave-in.
and now this random ass chao wants to play with it's remains lol
Grim for sure.... But maybe your are right
local chao plays with great grandpa’s bones
10:46 or the ancients devolved into the chao due to the master emerald and one of the chao re evolved back into a ancient due to the master emerald needing a protector
That is one possibility, but I am not sold on it
10:21 Chaos is a water entity maybe he sheds (or drips in this case) and Robotnik got the DNA from the excess water
Covering the disparity between the chaos emeralds and the master emerald, it could be a red herring. The emeralds could have originated on earth, an event could have occurred that caused them to leave the planet, and the master emerald could have been calling them back all along
I think the ancients might have looked way different in their past, but due to long time exposure to the Chaos Emeralds might have mutated them into the watery beings we see. So, when a Chao touched the Master Emerald, a stronger emerald, it was turned instantly into a watery being
Retcon's are a headache and I think this is going to be a remake of Sonic Adventure and Adventure 2 if they are going to make the continuity more fluent.
I'm still not sure we are getting remakes
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I think we will, don't when or how but they will happen.
That would make sense if they did and do it that way
This is gonna be good im glad everyone is getting to know more about chaos
Yeah it's great he is getting more attention
@@TheRealMightyEmperor by the way i think there really is a close connection to chaos the ancients master emerald and the chaos emeralds its really unknown what connects to all of them but I hope we find out in the future
@@mc5428 I really want to know why the Master Emerald was not with the rest
@@TheRealMightyEmperor same
@@TheRealMightyEmperor and more importantly what created all of the emeralds and the ancients
I definitely think it’s retconned. But even tho this is most likely a retcon, they can still make it work if done right.
We just need to see more
@@TheRealMightyEmperor yes for sure. Regardless I’m very much hyped for what Sega has planned for our blue blur in the future!
18:34 I highly doubt that as the story was written by Ian Flynn who is a huge sonic lore nerd
Actually no. The story was written by Sega Japan. Flynn was occasionally allowed to influence the story, but was mostly limited to the English Dialogue which is not the same thing.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor no, Flynn is the lead writer, bruh
@@SwampKryakwa This isn't something I am making up. Flynn wrote the entire English Script but the story itself I.E what happens, major plot points etc was Sega Japan. Flynn himself has said this
Not that everything would add up perfectly, but if you consider that the ancients were running from the end, and were an advanced civilization, the link between chaos, the chao and the ancients could be stages of imbuement of the emeralds. We never see chao utilize emeralds, we are told a chao became chaos because of the master emerald, and the ancients all share the emeralds. This on its own makes little sense because of how far the ancients came from, but if you think of how the master emerald was portrayed in the sonic movie (which themes such as the blue lightning seem to be slowly carrying over), it could be taken that the ancients were from so far away, that their home was a more developed parallel universe, placing the collective of the emeralds at multiverse equivalent of the master emerald. Sonic’s universe and the ancients universe being parallels means chao and koko can be alternates, just like sonic and blaze explaining the sample match, and the master emerald, and the chaos emeralds are alternates, explaining how chaos reaches levels the ancients wouldn’t, since he starts similar to the ancients form, achieved with the master, and gaining as he solely gains the emeralds. Lastly, the end taking the ancients home would mean that the emeralds, few remaining ancients, and tech would have nowhere to return to and so wouldn’t be forced to return, and since the end was sealed, and even later defeated, there is nothing stopping the emeralds to become a permanent part of Sonic’s world early enough that it still makes sense as it was before. This however does mean that the adopted emeralds in combination the the master emerald make Sonic’s universe way more powerful than other potential parallel universes. Come the think of it… I don’t recall if a master sol emerald was ever mentioned.
Either way, that’s just how I have rationalized it out. 🎉makes sense to me🎉
Interesting theory. Blaze and the Soul dimension are accessible via time space nonsense however, so for me I do not think it checks out.
This was the exact theory I came up with when I saw the ancients to looked like chaos
Great minds think alike
There's also the issue with the Gaia Temples, so the Chaos Emeralds should've been around on Earth FAR longer than the time when the Ancients came to Earth
The gaia temples do not seem to have been considered at all by Frontiers. Some people suggest the Temples were only built in the latest cycle.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Yeah, which is weird when they had Tails name drop Dark gaia in the game as well. Which leads to one of two problems:
1. The Gaia Temples were around longer, so they had to be on Earth before the Ancients brought them.
2. The Gaia Temples were made after the Ancients came to Earth, but then the issue is that the Ancients haven't been around long enough to have been around at the last time the cycle occurred. Plus, it bring sup the question of how the Earth has been fixed all the previous times Dark Gaia has awakened.
Think another good theory is to go off of what Eggman said about some form of radiation mutating the ancients and changing them into a completely different form. What if the surviving ancients that fled to angel island were actually mutated into the Chao we see today, and when the events of the echidna tribe happened, the chaos Chao absorbed the energy of the emeralds and was transformed back into a form closer to their original one
It is possible
Simplier theory
The chao were ancients who used thei master emerald to turn back into similar creatures, touching the emerald mutated it back to a proto form.
Him being stuck in the master emerald mutated his body and gave him new powers, thing gives sonics tons of power when he just steps on it, sleeping in it for thousands of years will do something.
He is not made of water but just something very similar probably mostly water.
I do believe Adventure states he is actually made of Water
@@TheRealMightyEmperor which could be explained by him napping in the master emerald for thousands of years mutating him. Also could just be a substance so close to water that its pretty hard to tell apart and can absorb more water to grow.
It’s gotta be the emeralds and master emerald both have a similar origin and that they mutated the ancients and mutated chao Chaos, or ya this otherwise all falls apart. I’m sure Ian Flynn has something in store that’s gonna clear up this confusion. I got the impression it was intentional that we weren’t given the whole picture in one game.
But even then, why haven’t Sonic and the gang gotten mutated. It really messy lore.
@@the.bloodless.one1312 Indeed it is, we really need more clarification
What if every planet has some Chaos Emerald equivalent? Like every planet has a Dark Gaia equivalent inside of them.
The Chaos and Master Emeralds are two sources of the same energy. It’s just that the Master Emerald is stronger and so whoever has it can enforce their will onto the weaker Emeralds. Or do the inverse and overcharge the Chaos Emeralds. Creating the Super Emeralds. And Hyper Sonic
It's possible other planets have power sources, but probably not all due to how none of the planets in Colours did... Unless you count the Wisps
@@TheRealMightyEmperor perhaps not all. But there’s probably a lot more then we thought. Especially since Blaze’s world has its equivalent in the Sol Emeralds despite being from a different dimension if not universe
And Black Doom was aware of the Chaos Emeralds and their power despite having never been to Earth before. Perhaps he’s encountered something similar on other planets? But maybe that’s headcanon idk
@@TheUncivilizedNation Just so you know, Black Doom had been to earth long ago, he tells Shadows when going to the ruins
@@TheRealMightyEmperor Black Doom could’ve been referring to 50 years before when he met Gerald Robotnik. That’s what I referring to when I said he was privy to the Emeralds despite never being to Earth. Unless he showed up some time earlier then that
@@TheUncivilizedNation I am pretty sure he says the ruins are way older than 50 years
So my question is this, could it be possible that chaos isn't actually related to the ancients, but he was instead mutated into a form resembling them by the master emerald, given what we know about it?
Basically the master emerald took ques from them and molded chaos' watery form into that shape, be it a tribute or warning...?
I would like to say yes, but we cannot ignore Eggman saying he does see a DNA connection
@@TheRealMightyEmperor true, but that could be because the emerald made more literal changes in his biology, like a medley of many creatures and eras. But again, all speculation
In regards to the lifespan and DNA issues, I would argue that the chaos emeralds were present at the altar with the master emerald in every flashback we saw in sa1. You're assuming chaos was mutated by the master emerald alone, when he was more than likely mutated by both in tandem. That would explain why he becomes the same species as the ancients, since they both would have been exposed to the chaos energy radiated by the emeralds. Same catalyst, same result. I would also argue that chaos is a special case, and his long lifespan was almost certainly due to the energy from the emeralds keeping him alive.
Weather you are right or wrong, it was not my assumption. The Master Emerald has always been the only element associated with the mutation of Chaos.
Personally, I think we still don't have a definitive answer for where the Chaos Emeralds came from. It's entirely possible that the Ancients simply DISCOVERED the Chaos Emeralds, otherwise why go out of their way to show that the Master Emerald's origin and connection to the other gems is a mystery, even to the Ancients?
Yes but if they discovered the Chaos Emeralds, they would still have been all the way on their own home planet. the Master Emerald was shown so that we know it pulled the Chaos Powered Ships to Earth.
I'd say it wasn't a retcon per-sey, but rather The Ancients likely evolved into the chao, and he was one that flash-mutated back into their original form. That's why he can't talk, he's basically just an innocent regressed animal given heightened levels of comprehension and sentience. He can't speak, but that's because he either isn't developed enough to do it or he can't develope the ability to due to being past the potential "age" most people need to due to brain development. That's why he seems to be difference when compared to the rest of them, too. They evolved naturally, he was flash-mutated in a split moment. As for the emeralds and master emerald, its likely that the Master Emerald and the Chaos Emeralds were cut from The Chaos entities body/sculpted from remnants of its formation/debris. ANd since its bigger, it attracts them like smaller magnets to larger ones. That, or he was genetically imprinted upon and/or the chao are a related species genetically
I agree with a lot of this, but not everything. I am going to want to see / hear definitively from Sega about how exactly (If at all) the ancients are connected to Chao / Chaos
Oooo, I really like this idea! It explains why Chaos would have the (mutated) form of an Ancient, but the intelligence of a Chao. He simply never properly developed the ability to perform things like speech (and why he can act so animalistic in his other forms) due to his body being transformed so rapidly.
I belive the Ancient evolved into the Chao, and then that Chao got mutated and became Chaos, resembling a lot more of their ancestors.
Also it makes sense that he doesn't talk like the Ancient, why would he had a language if he has nobody to talk to?
You would think he would talk with his fellow Chao no? And the language thing was more to show a connection to the ancients then to have a conversation. The ability to speak at all would be a good link.
Never knew a person that could get so close yet SO FAR FROM THE TRUTH OMG.
😉
My guess is the Chaos Emeralds and the Master Emerald have a common origin. Maybe the Ancients didn't create them, or maybe the Master Emerald originates from the Ancients own world but was lost?
A number of the issues are actually solved via Sonic Adventure 1, particularly the deeper dives into Tikal and Chaos when they were friends in the game during Sonic, and Knuckles routes.
Tikal's job as priestess meant she could actually hear the voice of the master emerald, and Chaos could as well, it's actually why they became friends ontop of both mutually liking the Chao. Him being able to hear the voice of the master emerald implies a much deeper connection between him and the master emerald, nevermind the fact that in Tikal and Chaos first encounter he literally came out of the master emerald, ontop of Tikal sealing both herself and chaos in the master emerald afterwards, and it being implied that they both went back inside the emerald again after the first adventure game.
It's also heavily implied Dr.Eggman took Chaos DNA during the time he had a deep look at the emerald and found Chaos sealed inside intially, ontop of glyphs and ruins on angel island and sky sanctuary pointing towards Chaos existence(hence why sonic adventure 2 happened)
Overall its my personal theory that the master emerald was most likely created by the ancients after spending time on earth. They already proved they were masters at harnessing and controlling the energy in frontiers and the technology there. It wouldn't be a stretch for them to then perfect that technology after coming to earth, and making a chaos emerald to control the 7 emeralds. Chaos existence therefore is most likely completely tied to the master emerald, and is either the master emerald itself, or something akin to it. This is the pure speculation part, but like how eggman made sage to operate and mess around with the frontiers ancient technology, Chaos is probably an A.I made for the master emerald itself. Or at the very least, is a system the ancients put into the master emerald, for what reason is uncertain. But if Chaos was programmed to protect the Chao, and the Chao are mutated ancients, and the rogue ekidna tribe killed the Chao, then...
The Master Emerald was not made by the ancients though. That is something the game itself explains clearly.
I'm hoping stuff in the future explains a lot of the weird chaos emerald lore
Also I wonder how other things fit in like the phantom ruby and time stones
And the soul emeralds
@@sonicjhiq Soul Emeralds are from another Dimension and are therefore unrelated
@@TheRealMightyEmperor I know they are from another dimension, they are the blazes dimensions equivalent to the chaos emerald, doesn't mean they aren't related somehow though
My personal theory that the Ancients eventually became the Chao, rather than Chao being separate and eventually one of them eventually becoming a Chaos Chao and then being turned into Chaos by the Master Emerald.
After all, Chaos Chao exist in-game; if a Chao is to grow up to be neutral, is happy enough, has enough reincarnations and has access to every single animal-ability, then the Chao will lose the ability to die or reincarnate (or the ability to show animal parts on its body), but more importantly, it will resemble Chaos, who also resembles and supposedly shares DNA with the Ancients.
So, this means that a Chao can naturally grow (given an environment where it can learn all small animal abilities) into a form much like the Ancients.
By extension, the Chao must have some link to the Ancients, since they can grow eventually into a form that resembles them; which in my mind debunks the idea that the Chao are separate.
They didn't absorb any Ancient DNA to take on that form, after all; the Ancients are already dead by the time the player is able to raise Chao in the Chao Gardens.
Note also how the Chao, unlike Chaos, are not capable of morphing their shape, and neither are they made out of water. Rather, they naturally grow up and die, or reincarnate as an egg if happy enough. Similar to how the Ancients themselves grew up, aged and died naturally. (although the "reincarnation as an egg" part doesn't fit.)
However, Chaos is made of water, and we know for sure that he's descended from a Chao, meaning that the whole "water being that can change shape" thing is purely as a result of the Master Emerald, rather than the Ancients also being water-beings.
Now, for the Koco mask in Sky Sanctuary.
There's not much seen of it, but there is one big thing I'd like to make clear about it; it is not an actual Koco. It's merely a mask. Potentially, it could be a charm from the Ancients that was not infused with their spirits after death.
However, the Chao is seen desparately trying to break it free and, after Knuckles uncovers it, the Chao flies away - wearing the mask, as if it was that Chao's all along. As if that Ancient became a Chao, but continued to reincarnate and eventually found its charm.
Even if that's not the case, the fact that the Chao was trying to break the mask free likely does signify some sort of connection, even if it's a flimsy one.
Now, how do some of these things tie in to Chaos? Well, firstly, if he originated as a Chaos Chao, the previous attributes would explain the Ancient-like appearance, as well as his lack of a life cycle; Chaos Chao don't age, after all. But, for a Chaos Chao to exist in the first place, there has got to be some DNA present to allow the Chao to look like the Ancients, but this likely would not exist unless the Chao originated from them; the only other way would be for a Chao to absorb Ancient DNA, but this is impossible because there are none around anymore.
The Koco mask mainly just connects the Chao to the Koco in my eyes, rather than connecting the Ancients to Chaos, but it's still a reasonable point in my opinion.
Of course, that's all just a theory.
tl;dr: Chao are linked to Ancients, due to Chaos Chao. Chaos Chao turned into Chaos, hence link from him to Ancients. Chao also linked to Ancients and Koco because of the mask in Sky Sanctuary, as the Chao was seemingly desparate to obtain it. Chaos only got his water-like body and ability to morph or use the Chaos Emeralds from the Master Emerald, rather than from the Ancients or the Chao.
Nice theory and good presentation. Most people don't bother with the mask so it was nice to see you do so. One thing I will say is that Chaos Chao (The form) may not be based on ancients. The Neutral version actually has water-like effects on the tips of its frills, but more importantly are the Dark and Hero versions which look like Neutral Chaos but not like the ancients. Of course, that doesn't mean you are wrong about Ancient DNA, but there is a chance it is separate.
You can still see water ripples in the Ancients when they move though. So they're made of water (or some other liquid) but just can't morph into water
I do call them "liquid-like", but not water because they do not make the ground wet
id like to think that the chaos emeralds have always been from sonics world but just scattered to another planet and got lost?
5:05 I thought they were all artifacts from the special stages that somehow leaked into the Sonic universe and crystallized into rings and emeralds (maybe this energy also has something to do with the nautrual forming loops and checkerboard looking soil and humanoid looking animals)
Perhaps that's why they seem to still react to eachother despite existing on different planets
As far as the games are concerned, that has never been stated nor suggested
After watching this I’d like to know why sonic can use the power of the chaos emeralds
You will probably be told he has some special connection or something. Then again even Tails can use the Chaos Emeralds
@@TheRealMightyEmperor now I have more questions. What are the perquisite to wielding the chaos powers when the ancient had to use technology.
@@uzumakifiyin These are excellent questions!
Hmm.. 🤔
That is a very strong point. If anyone can weird the chaos emeralds to access a super state, it's strange the Ancients never appeared to understand how to harness their power outside of technology.
Several factions and characters were name dropped in Frontiers and it's nice to have all that acknowledged after so long. One question I had related to Dark/Light Gaia from Unleashed. They've been in a struggle for a LONG time and the Chaos Emeralds are important to healing the planet when/if it's broken apart by Dark Gaia. Were the Chaos Emeralds always integral to the planet healing? If so and the Master/Chaos Emeralds have been on Earth for the extent of Dark/Light Gaia's seemingly eternal conflict, how does that relate to the Ancients and the Chaos Emeralds? There's plenty about Sonic Unleashed's plot that I've forgotten about so I might be talking out of my ass here.
I think Sega say the gaia cycle didn't start before the ancients?
@@TheRealMightyEmperor That'd be pretty convenient for these primordial beings to wait for the Chaos Emeralds to show up before starting their eternal struggle.. unless the Ancients's arrival predates all life on the planet and they're over a billion years old or something. I just hope that the Ancient's are brought up again in the future because there are times where Sega brings up something and then never mentions it again outside of a cameo. The Ancients are intrinsic to the Chao Emeralds which are the crux of so much Sonic stuff so I'm pretty sure this isn't the last time we'll see the Ancients.
@@TheAccursedHunter01 We will see. I have my doubts
I have a theory. When Light Gaia defeated Dark Gaia long ago, Light Gaia sent the Chaos Emeralds into the Special Zones (one of the places where the Emeralds can recover their energy). Later on, the Special Zones were discovered by the Ancients who built constructs to harness their power. Eventually, "The End" showed up causing the Ancients to flee to Earth (thanks to the Master Emerald guiding the Chaos Emeralds home).
This theory helps prevents any reconning shenanigans. What do you think?
At a glance nothing about your theory contradicts official lore, the only grey spot is if that is something within Dark Gaia's power (Since it is supposed to just be concerned with earth) and if it was possible at that time in the cycle.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor You mean Light Gaia not Dark. It is a little grey, but I’m using the connection he has with the emeralds through the temples to justify the ability to send them away to recover their energy within the Special Zones.
I was thinking that chao naturally would evolve into chaos like creatures (like the chaos chao) and in their final stage of life grow up into the ancients, so the ancients off-sping very well could be chao
It would have to be decedents rather than offspring, we see young Ancients in the game and they have clear differences to Chaos.
It's never stated if the chaos emeralds came for the same planet as the earliest point of the ancients' history that we know of them is fleeing the end. Who's to say they haven't been planet hoping for a while now, fleeing their enemy and collecting chaos emeralds from planets that had one eventually getting sucked in by the master emerald. I feel like it makes more senses for the emeralds to be spread out whether then have 7 on 1 planet and the controller on another. Granted this solves none of the questions in the video but i feel like it makes the bigger picture easier to look at albeit still a bit blurry.
I understand that but is equally likely that they did come from the ancient planet
I would take a guess that the Ancients created the Master emerald when they learned that The End followed them. So when the created the Master emerald the Ancients stored some of the data of themselves so when Chaos interacted and became mutated that is what gave him the form that he has. I would admit after finishing the game some stuff feels missing but who knows dlc might add some lovely lore to fill in the missing pieces of the puzzles
Not sure if you played the game yet, but we already know the Anciants did not create the Master Emerald
One of the things I’ve heard was that the Master Emerald was created by the gods to halt anyone from misusing the Chaos Emeralds. Don’t recall which game or source it’s from or if it’s just in-lore speculation, it could possibly work but on a galactic scale.
Under these circumstance it doesn't seem likely
That could have just been the Echidna tribes religious belief about its origin. What it really is and where it came from could be complete different.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor it would mean the chaos emeralds started out on earth then eventually made their way to the ancient's world
This fully solves the master emerald chaos emerald connection, but means there's more history from WAAAAY back
@@tippership But how/why did the Chaos Emeralds travel light years for a planet to another?
Maybe Chaos is part of the ancients but he was absorbed by the master emerald or atleast was hiding within the emeralds, when he came out to fight the Echidnas he was fully powered up but when he came back in SA1 was crippled and in a very bad state which was why he was made of water and had machines, since he was inside of the master emerald it's maybe like how a caveman would be frozen in ice, and he has a much smaller base form (AKA chaos Zero) because he wasn't fully grown yet.
This makes absolutely no sense I know but I wanted to try some way to figure it out.
Fair attempt, but unlikely
I'd say the most likely reason behind the apparent connection of the ancients, chao and Chaos - is that the Master Emerald has some... pseudo intelligence behind it. The ancients probably left some imprint upon the Master Emerald since they had similar stones and treated it with respect, building the grand alter for it. The ancients die out, and eventually chao come in. The ME has some sense of longing for it's old guardians and given that Chao seems very responsive to different shapes and forms (even resembling Sonic, Shadow and other characters on occasion), they accidentally pick up the ability to take on this "chaos" form. Then later a chaos chao absorbs an abundant amount of energy from the ME and becomes Chaos - his form again is made from the imprint on the ME's "memory".
Though this would mean that there is no direct connection between the Chaos and Master Emeralds, the ME would seem to be the "master" just because it's the bigger and stronger one - possibly created by the same ancient natural process (with minimal variance to change the number, size, power and colour), and by extension means that there might be other emeralds out in the Sonic galaxy that we simply don't know about.
I also have doubts that the ancients made Sky Sanctuary - at least not directly. More likely imo that Sky Sanctuary was built over what the ancients made, since Knuckles makes a point in his short that the room with the starfall island cyberspace shrine is much older than the rest of the ruins.
Fair point actually about sky sanctuary. I do think the ancients engineered the floating abilities though as Frontiers shows us they did that a lot.
It's not that the master emerald is called like that because it is bigger and stronger. The chaos emeralds have positive energy, while the master emerald has negative. The prayer of Tikal says that ME controls the chaos emeralds, fact that happened twice, once when she locked herself and chaos in ME, and second when Knuckles prayed to stop Biolizard
@@CedroEscarlate That's demonstrably not true. The Chaos Emeralds have been explicitly shown to hold equal amounts of positive and negative energy within them during the final story of Adventure. Super Sonic used the positive energy of them, Perfect Chaos used the negative energy and their collisions during the battle cancelled out both power ups.
The Master Emerald isn't just a negative to their positive, it holds controlling power over them (if you accept 3&K as canon it can also power them up as well).
Given they now no longer have a shared origin, it being the larger stronger gem is the one (unsatisfying) explanation I can think of as to why it has this dominion over the others.
@@WolforNuva that's not the kind of positive and negative energy i'm talking about. I was talking about their interaction, which is revealed in somewhere i can't remember. They have an interaction of polarity, with one being positive and one being negative. You're refering to evil/good energy that is absorved and used through emotions, just like tikal's prayer said: Power enriched by the heart. Sorry for the confusion
@@WolforNuva also it can vary its size depending on the holders' will. And ME can neutralize the power of the chaos emeralds, it's not just a size problem
It makes the most sense to me that after The End was contained, the remaining Ancients left and formed Angel Island. Whatever happened to them after that isn't clear, but the Chao popping up tells me that they aren't the Ancients because of the existence of the Chaos Chao.
The emeralds mutated a chao and it became Chaos 0.
According to the writing team, the ancients are indeed the ancestor of chao as I suspected was the intent here
Going to be Completely Honest here. I don't like this "Revelation" like at all. Way too confusing and just doesn't make sense to me
Even with my theory there are some holes, there is a chance this addition was not researched enough before the gave it the green light
Yeah, I don't like it either. I think it would make much more sense if the Chaos Emeralds still remained a mystery. But if they needed connections to anyone or anything, Light and Dark Gaia would have been MUCH better.
@@DangerousArmyGuy they still are a mystery, a mystery from another planet
@@DangerousArmyGuy the Ancients found them on their planet but they never created them and the Master Emeralds to be already on earth just gives it away that they belonged to earth at this point and this leads to the creation of earth and DarkGaia at the same time with LightGaia( stated in Unleashed Lore ) lightgaia wanted to make sure that DarkGaia doesn’t separate earth in pieces wich leads us to LightGaia asking for help from the people of earth to use the Chaos emeralds energy into Temples a Gaia ( who were built by unknown users that understood Chaos energy in the Time during the first battle of Light and Dark gaia ) LightGaia and his followers were successful sealed Darkness away but the cost of it were the Chaos emeralds who went off space to the Ancients planet but that’s my theory
Do you know Sonic Loreposting? He explained this in a simple way on his Twitter account and he has a blog too
I think Chaos is a genetically engineered golem created by the ancients, and created to protect the master emerald from outsiders and hostile tribes from misusing it's power.
All while the ancients were being effected by the master emeralds radiation turning them into chao. Therefore the golem they made ended up protecting the chao his original creators who were the once the ancients and the master Emerald and the chaos emeralds themselves.
The ancients evolved in to chaos and the master emerald mutated a chao in to Chaos.
In this video I explain why it's possible that is not the case
15:02 I'm personally adamant about the ancient dying and turning into cocoa and then the cocoa mutating into Chao, everything in game and the knuckles short just points to it.
Actually no, The Knuckles short seems to support my theory that after setting up Sky Sanctuary the Ancients died, leaving their empty charms behind.
@@TheRealMightyEmperor that actually makes me even more insistent it has to be the same because the chao literally put on a shell of a coco as a mask they could have just shedded the stone like shell cuz they are more than likely hollow since if you look at them with a beam of light hitting them you see light bouncing around inside of them, plus we really can't ignore the fact that they're designs are super similar especially with the eyes and mouth, perhaps the coco being around the Master emerald for so long mutated them into having something inside of their coco bodies or something, I understand your theory does make a lot of sense but I hope it's not that they are just so similar it would be kind of lazy Imo to be separate
I mean, it wouldn't be hard to say that Chao ARE the Master Emerald-mutated descendants of the Ancient's Koco that migrated to Angel Island. Eggman's Memo implies that evolution upon EONS had occurred, so it's not a stretch to also believe that the Master Emerald restored one of the Chao's DNA into that of the Ancients, creating Chaos. Chaos then, would be a vessel to protection his people against any threats. This would also go hand-in-hand with Knuckles' role to guard the Master Emerald. He's not just guarding a gem with godlike power, but preventing an emissary of revenge from being unleashed, and his ancestors must've known that, because it is said that the Echidna tribe was inspired by the Ancients.
So the theory would go, Ancients escaped The End to Earth, bringing the Chaos Emeralds with it. They (may) have built the Gaia temples to assist Chip (Sky Sanctuary gives them a place to go that isn't affected by Dark Gaia, so it all comes full circle but is also a reach). The End comes to Earth, and the Ancients disperse for survival. The End attacks the Starfall Islands and is later sealed away inside of Supreme and cyberspace. The Koco on Starfall are the Ancients that did not go to Angel Island. The Ancients that went to Angel Island died off, and became their Koco, but the Master Emerald mutated them into Chao, slightly restoring the DNA of the ancients (The Rocks are now blue blobs). One Chao in particular becomes Chaos, and now (depending on the lifespan of Koco/Chao) it's very possible that Chaos could be one on the Ancients that were aware of their home's destruction, or the attack on Earth eons ago, so he protects his people, THE CHAO.
Love your video, but I do think you may have complicated your thinking here a bit, but I don't blame you as much of the connected dots I presented are inferences, and not alot is direct in this game.
Thanks for the support and time put into the comment. The Koco however are not the ancients and cannot be generic ancestors of the Chao. Why? Because not only do we know they are just charms, the game let's us know they are not "alive" but simply repeating memories trapped within Cyber Space. Chaos also has to have come from a Chao as this has always been the case, if this is no longer the case that is a retcon.
I’m hoping they answer some questions we have now in future games. Especially with why the Master Emerald was on “earth” but the chaos emeralds came from elsewhere. Are there more chaos emeralds on other planets? Maybe equivalents?
We need clarification for sure. Multiple Emeralds is a possible solution, but then should earth had a set of its own?
This theory holds merit if one considers the Sol Emeralds to be canon.
Maybe Earths set of Chaos Emeralds is JUST the Master Emerald?
@@ww1483 That would make more sense if the Master Emerald affected anything other than the specific 7 chaos emeralds we've seen in all the mainline games. Granted, the timestones from CD probably only exist in the timespace of little planet...
@@ww1483 I always considered the Jewel Sceptre to be the sol master emerald
@@TheRealMightyEmperor That would make sense... After all "The master is the controller, the seven are the servers." That line could mean subservience from the 7 or that the 7 act like nexuses and the master is useful for directing that energy.
Anyone else thinking that the Phantom Ruby came from Cyber Space? with the powers that it has, it could've been sent through due to the effect that it has of distorting reality and it could have been sent to crack reality enough to get a signal to Eggman so that The End could be freed from its dimensional prison.
There may be a connection, some traits seem to be shared
I would also like to mention the ancients predates everything we know so we dont know who or what put in stone about chaos' nature an why he was inside the master emerald we also do not know what happened to the rest of the ancients because yeah they would have died off but heres the thing its before any events pf the sonic universe took place so for all we know chao could be the actual relatives to the ancients and while yes exposure to chaos energy is something to note chaos was inside that master emerald for a long time not to mention there were things left put on purpose but its already a wider narrative being set up
The game makes statements about these things so that we do know key points, the is the whole point of this game. Eggman states all the ancients did die off, the ancients in flash backs seem to suggest the same outcome. Chaos did not exist during the time of the ancients, what we know about him is unchanged unless there was a retcon.