Yeah I want to challenge him to a rematch... I'm lighter now and have more power and 4.777 so I think I'll give him a better run for his money! 💪 stay tuned!!
Yeah he almost turned into you. HPDE-4 is supposed to be open passing, no point bys, with competent drivers... but i've taken a few passes before and it seemed like the guy was surprised to find me along side him. not safe, and makes me question how/why they are in HPDE-4 if their awareness is that poor. drivers being overtaken should never be "surprised" in HPDE-4...
An interesting battle. I can't say much about prepped to prepped, but I'm pretty familiar stock to stock. The RX8 does have the power advantage but is heavier, and the tall gearing kind of sucks compared to the tighter and more useful ratios of the BRZ. The BRZ is inherently better set up (stock to stock) for racing with a firmer suspension configuration. I'm not sure why the BRZ was pulling away on the straights. The 40hp deficit is pretty noticeable against a RX8 or S2000 when driven back to back. Maybe it was better gearing out of the corners or that the Subaru engine responds reasonably to mods while the RX8 engine is pretty close to maxed out in stock form. The RX8 pulls power too if hot as the ECU is pretty protective. The BRZ has a slightly better drag coefficient (barely, and not really important after the added wing). I'm curious if some of the advantage is simply a byproduct of the decade advantage in engineering knowledge and two larger companies behind the project. I'd also expect the BRZ to have the advantage in both CG and rotating inertia allowing it to move about more readily. The RX8 is sort of a pig relatively speaking due to the door design and added structure. This is quite apparent when considering it is effectively a 4 door gen 3 Miata with a rather sizable weight gain for what little more car is there. Some of this makes it a great GT car, an awesome cruiser, but it's a compromised chassis when racing only aided by the reasonable HP pushing it. The BRZ and more so the S2000 are more uncompromised. It's pretty apparent when driven, especially the S2000. There's not a lot of other cars out there that feel as distilled down to a singular purpose as the S2000. However, the BRZ does not feel bad against it.
pretty thorough assessment!! I think my buddy has a little more in the way of mods than i do. i don't think the BRZ has an advantage in terms of CG or moment of interia. The BRZ has a much greater front static weight distribution, and the RX8's compact and lightweight rotary engine is completely behind the front axle (true front-midship) and incredibly low, even compared to the boxer. The RX8 also, despite being older, has a superior suspension design at the front and at least as good at the rear. and yes, it does get a reputation as a pig... but mine has full interior, AC, power locks/windows, etc... and weighs less than 2740# with 1/4 tank of gas. not too shabby for a car that can truly fit four adults (opposed to the cramped BRZ...). Agree that from the factory the BRZ is definitely tighter and more competitive, but it doesn't take much at all to transform a factory-soft "GT style" RX8 to a sharp track machine. The doors are VERY nice to have in everyday situations, especially when packing up the car and putting four full-size racing slicks in the rear seats! Having driven all of them, they are all excellent sports cars. Fun discusson.
The BRZ is 53/47 for weight distribution, and the RX8 is 52/48, only very slight advantage RX8. The BRZ is around 200 lbs lighter but also about 40 HP down (but around the same torque, just doesn't hold it as high). The RX8 has the power to weight advantage. The BRZ has nicer gearing for acceleration though, however, they evened out with the newer RX8s getting the revised final drive. They're effectively tied for both 0-60 and 1/4 mile. The CG of the BRZ is 18.11" and the CG of the RX8 is 18.5" to 18.6" so advantage BRZ. I did not find any specific polar moment of inertia numbers, other than that both tout them to be "low" haha. The Renesis engine is light at 247 lbs. Even a decently small 2.0L Subaru engine is still a good 130 lbs higher at 377 lbs. Including the gearbox, the RX8 engine and transmission is still lighter than just the Subaru engine at 350 lbs. The Subaru package is 480 lbs comparatively. Their transmissions are basically the same weight, and the advantage is all engine. Advantage is certainly the RX8, and like you said, it's placed back quite well. I really do like the Renesis engine. I like it better than even the S2000 engine. Despite the sea of numbers and difference in driving feel, stock to stock, they both feel very similar in overall capability. Modded is a crap shoot. Plus a lot of people are terrible at setting up cars. We do big test and tune days for autocross where I'm from, and it's basically 6 hours of goofing off. You can ride along with anyone, drive anyones cars, and you can quite literally put in a hundred laps if you want to just going around and around all day. For these I love to hop in other people's cars, see how they drive, how their car is set up, and then I beg to drive them and get a feel for how they actually drive. It is mind boggling how bad a LOT of cars are set up. Now a lot of people just tossed on new coilovers or are testing different setups, and most don't have a lot of experience, so everything's all over the place. The real takeaway is how bad people can mess up what should be a darn fast car, even when modded and prepped for a class. I've come to take the idea of "prepped" for a class kind of lightly, unless the person's well experienced and knows what they're doing, and there's some folks with nutty cars that make you think "how the hell is the the car doing this?!" One guy has an old M3 that corners faster than any car I've ever been in, ever, and even without much for aero. It was XP prepped and drove like it. Unfortunately there's quite a spectrum between both ends. And then there's actual driving, reading the course, following good driving lines, and hitting your braking and acceleration points well and carrying momentum. Even a tiny mistake can add seconds, and the driver may not even be aware of their mistake. This is where racing videos are incredibly hard to evaluate because the guy in front could be walking away or getting run down solely based on driving the corner slightly different or using slightly more or less margin of safety for braking or accelerating and use of track space. Too often it's the driver, not the car, that's really putting down the numbers. A humorous analogy is Sabine Schmitz doing the 10 minute Nurburgring van challenge on Top Gear. She can drive arguably a piece of shit vehicle faster than a whole lot of people in a whole lot of much faster cars just because she can and does drive the up to the limit of the vehicle and the course.
Only 30kg difference stock... we can't really say "heavier" in this case ^^ The major point for the RX8 is it's perfect weight ratio of 50/50, the rapid acceleration/taking RPM and chassis ^^
@@rx8matt Because peoples are jealous of japanese cars, 'cause with a 1.3L we can win against a huge 6272904L v8 😂 But, yeah it's 30kg more than the BRZ, but it's the only Coupe in the world with 4 REAL adult places. And yeah, the seats are fucking heavy 😂😂 If you remove them, you easily remove 100kg, making the 8 around 1240 kg ^^ But you also lost the 50/50 weight ratio, except if you take a fat copilote and eat a lot too 😂😂 I have one with little modifications, and it's a real pleasure 😍 Except for the price of Gazoline.... I live in France near the Luxemburg but wow.. 😂 Sorry, I'm not fluent with the Imperial system, so I can't give you stats' in this measurement 😅
I, ll pick your brain's Matt soon on suspention set up for my 8, as soon as the kids free up some money of mine. Wealth of questions to ask ya, many thanks again for these uploads.. Some of the best
hey matt, just picked up an RX-8, if you could share some knowledge on this chassis for suspension setup that would be amazing, coming from a TT prepped FRS.
ConnorLug hey man. Yeah I put my latest modifications and setup in the video description in my latest videos, so that's a good starting point. 13.5" ride height center of hub to fender all around, about -2.7 front and -2.3 rear camber, zero front toe, a hair of rear toe in.
I saw in another post you were using 245 tire size as your wet tire but in this video you are using a 235. I have an rx8 and use 245 Sp4s but I’m thinking of getting a 17 inch wheel and running lower tread wear tire, 235. Was hopping for your thoughts on this.
For high speed tracks, 235-245 width is best. For lower speed tracks and autocross, wider is better (255-265+). You lose quite a bit of mph on straights with taller, wider, heavier tires in a low power car like rx8.
Berry29tm yes I have fuel cut issues below 1/3 tank during left hand turns. Mainly dominion and summit point Shenandoah. Vir I am generally good down to 1/4 tank ish. Sustained left hand corners is a known rx8 issue due to the fuel tank design.
Thanks, yesterday i had issues with half a tank even in the straight after a huge u-turn left hander.. i had to exit the track and go to the nearest fuel station to get it filled up.. i was worried it could be related to oil premixing and thus injectors.. Is there any known way to fix the problem?
Berry29tm some guys use a series 2 fuel pump. Rx8club had discussion on the subject. Your girl pump may just be weak. I got an airtek aftermarket pump and it's working pretty well
Berry29tm I'm not 100% on this as I haven't pulled my tank (09 RX8). But I was told the series 2 basically has 2 fuel pumps due to the tank design. One on each side to avoid this issue of cutting. I haven't had any cutting out even in left or right turns at tires breaking point with 1/8 tank. Even with fuel light in I haven't had it cutting out
Well, my opinion is what I see. First you have to upgrade your differential with 4.77 ring and pinion. Second you aren't experienced, your shifting times are slow and very slow your down shifting. Rx8 definitely should beat gt86. It's not the car it's you. Imagine you are 200 kilos heavier and car performed so well even with you inexperience. To my rx8 have made some upgrades that performed very well and looking forward for some more.
Slow shifting is so the relatively fragile s1 transmission lasts for multiple seasons. Sure i can shift faster but I'd prefer to not to grenade the trans. I street drive to and from events and don't have a trailer. Regarding not driving well, do you have any other specific pointers? I'm always open to recommendations from those more skilled than me.
@@rx8matt well about trans add motorkote. I have changed water pump, water radiator with misimoto, ffs in stock ecu. Transmission is fragile, only with the wrong care. Good oil and good additive as motorkote you can enjoy it as you want
nan3r well... it's a premier facility, with all the maintenance and upkeep. and they have the EMT staff and event organizers. it's not cheap, but there's definitely cost required to operate it.
nan3r if you're looking to try it out for cheap, NASA often offers "hyperdrives", which are single sessions for $50. Good way to get on track and experience it first hand.
Davis Saelee thanks man. I could certainly shave some time with quicker shifts, and I do shift quicker during timed competition sessions, but when I'm not racing I go easy on the synchros. No transmission lasts forever and the easier you are generally the longer it will last.
Matt Huffman no problem, I been seeing your recommendation videos, and thought I may as well comment. If you already know how to quick shift, I do apologize. Keep bringing in more content, surely will subscribe.
![Mazda Miata vs. Subaru BRZ Track Battle! [ POV Track Day @ NJMP Thunderbolt]](/img/n.gif)
You know when you were chasing the BRZ... I was thinking... I'm going on youtube aren't I...
Yep... lol
As if you weren't famous enough for appearing in the recent issue of GRM!! That was a nice pic.
Matt Huffman haha that was an ad for TNIA. I didnt even know the photog picked my car till I got the issue.
Mate, i dont think id ever get tired of watching these uploads..... Very, VERY close match...... Keep em coming dude
They aren't close match, actually, the 8 is faster.
@@calmandrest9513 what clip have you been watching? This is about as close as it gets match wise.....
@@darrenlucas2768 no, not this clip.
@@darrenlucas2768 comparing what is what
Wow interesting outcome! I didn't expect to see it pull away on the straights like that
Yeah I want to challenge him to a rematch... I'm lighter now and have more power and 4.777 so I think I'll give him a better run for his money! 💪 stay tuned!!
Rotaries are always faster on the turns, you put one more rotor on the RX8, and this game over for all these other cars.
For sure. Glad that folks are still finding my old videos!
Dude, I just noticed that @4:48 it seems the Miata was surprised to see me there.
Yeah he almost turned into you. HPDE-4 is supposed to be open passing, no point bys, with competent drivers... but i've taken a few passes before and it seemed like the guy was surprised to find me along side him. not safe, and makes me question how/why they are in HPDE-4 if their awareness is that poor. drivers being overtaken should never be "surprised" in HPDE-4...
way to go man! i owned the RX8 too! hello from Malaysia! keep uploading the videos!!
Qayyum Arafat thanks for the kind words! See you around.
An interesting battle. I can't say much about prepped to prepped, but I'm pretty familiar stock to stock. The RX8 does have the power advantage but is heavier, and the tall gearing kind of sucks compared to the tighter and more useful ratios of the BRZ. The BRZ is inherently better set up (stock to stock) for racing with a firmer suspension configuration. I'm not sure why the BRZ was pulling away on the straights. The 40hp deficit is pretty noticeable against a RX8 or S2000 when driven back to back. Maybe it was better gearing out of the corners or that the Subaru engine responds reasonably to mods while the RX8 engine is pretty close to maxed out in stock form. The RX8 pulls power too if hot as the ECU is pretty protective. The BRZ has a slightly better drag coefficient (barely, and not really important after the added wing). I'm curious if some of the advantage is simply a byproduct of the decade advantage in engineering knowledge and two larger companies behind the project. I'd also expect the BRZ to have the advantage in both CG and rotating inertia allowing it to move about more readily. The RX8 is sort of a pig relatively speaking due to the door design and added structure. This is quite apparent when considering it is effectively a 4 door gen 3 Miata with a rather sizable weight gain for what little more car is there. Some of this makes it a great GT car, an awesome cruiser, but it's a compromised chassis when racing only aided by the reasonable HP pushing it. The BRZ and more so the S2000 are more uncompromised. It's pretty apparent when driven, especially the S2000. There's not a lot of other cars out there that feel as distilled down to a singular purpose as the S2000. However, the BRZ does not feel bad against it.
pretty thorough assessment!! I think my buddy has a little more in the way of mods than i do. i don't think the BRZ has an advantage in terms of CG or moment of interia. The BRZ has a much greater front static weight distribution, and the RX8's compact and lightweight rotary engine is completely behind the front axle (true front-midship) and incredibly low, even compared to the boxer. The RX8 also, despite being older, has a superior suspension design at the front and at least as good at the rear. and yes, it does get a reputation as a pig... but mine has full interior, AC, power locks/windows, etc... and weighs less than 2740# with 1/4 tank of gas. not too shabby for a car that can truly fit four adults (opposed to the cramped BRZ...). Agree that from the factory the BRZ is definitely tighter and more competitive, but it doesn't take much at all to transform a factory-soft "GT style" RX8 to a sharp track machine. The doors are VERY nice to have in everyday situations, especially when packing up the car and putting four full-size racing slicks in the rear seats! Having driven all of them, they are all excellent sports cars. Fun discusson.
The BRZ is 53/47 for weight distribution, and the RX8 is 52/48, only very slight advantage RX8. The BRZ is around 200 lbs lighter but also about 40 HP down (but around the same torque, just doesn't hold it as high). The RX8 has the power to weight advantage. The BRZ has nicer gearing for acceleration though, however, they evened out with the newer RX8s getting the revised final drive. They're effectively tied for both 0-60 and 1/4 mile. The CG of the BRZ is 18.11" and the CG of the RX8 is 18.5" to 18.6" so advantage BRZ. I did not find any specific polar moment of inertia numbers, other than that both tout them to be "low" haha. The Renesis engine is light at 247 lbs. Even a decently small 2.0L Subaru engine is still a good 130 lbs higher at 377 lbs. Including the gearbox, the RX8 engine and transmission is still lighter than just the Subaru engine at 350 lbs. The Subaru package is 480 lbs comparatively. Their transmissions are basically the same weight, and the advantage is all engine. Advantage is certainly the RX8, and like you said, it's placed back quite well. I really do like the Renesis engine. I like it better than even the S2000 engine.
Despite the sea of numbers and difference in driving feel, stock to stock, they both feel very similar in overall capability. Modded is a crap shoot. Plus a lot of people are terrible at setting up cars. We do big test and tune days for autocross where I'm from, and it's basically 6 hours of goofing off. You can ride along with anyone, drive anyones cars, and you can quite literally put in a hundred laps if you want to just going around and around all day. For these I love to hop in other people's cars, see how they drive, how their car is set up, and then I beg to drive them and get a feel for how they actually drive. It is mind boggling how bad a LOT of cars are set up. Now a lot of people just tossed on new coilovers or are testing different setups, and most don't have a lot of experience, so everything's all over the place. The real takeaway is how bad people can mess up what should be a darn fast car, even when modded and prepped for a class. I've come to take the idea of "prepped" for a class kind of lightly, unless the person's well experienced and knows what they're doing, and there's some folks with nutty cars that make you think "how the hell is the the car doing this?!" One guy has an old M3 that corners faster than any car I've ever been in, ever, and even without much for aero. It was XP prepped and drove like it. Unfortunately there's quite a spectrum between both ends. And then there's actual driving, reading the course, following good driving lines, and hitting your braking and acceleration points well and carrying momentum. Even a tiny mistake can add seconds, and the driver may not even be aware of their mistake. This is where racing videos are incredibly hard to evaluate because the guy in front could be walking away or getting run down solely based on driving the corner slightly different or using slightly more or less margin of safety for braking or accelerating and use of track space. Too often it's the driver, not the car, that's really putting down the numbers. A humorous analogy is Sabine Schmitz doing the 10 minute Nurburgring van challenge on Top Gear. She can drive arguably a piece of shit vehicle faster than a whole lot of people in a whole lot of much faster cars just because she can and does drive the up to the limit of the vehicle and the course.
Only 30kg difference stock... we can't really say "heavier" in this case ^^
The major point for the RX8 is it's perfect weight ratio of 50/50, the rapid acceleration/taking RPM and chassis ^^
Beelzebuth yeah the rx8 gets a reputation as a heavy car... But mines almost 2700 and certainly feels light on its feet!!
@@rx8matt Because peoples are jealous of japanese cars, 'cause with a 1.3L we can win against a huge 6272904L v8 😂
But, yeah it's 30kg more than the BRZ, but it's the only Coupe in the world with 4 REAL adult places. And yeah, the seats are fucking heavy 😂😂
If you remove them, you easily remove 100kg, making the 8 around 1240 kg ^^
But you also lost the 50/50 weight ratio, except if you take a fat copilote and eat a lot too 😂😂
I have one with little modifications, and it's a real pleasure 😍
Except for the price of Gazoline.... I live in France near the Luxemburg but wow.. 😂
Sorry, I'm not fluent with the Imperial system, so I can't give you stats' in this measurement 😅
I, ll pick your brain's Matt soon on suspention set up for my 8, as soon as the kids free up some money of mine.
Wealth of questions to ask ya, many thanks again for these uploads.. Some of the best
Darren Lucas I've finally gotten mine dialed in, so I'd be happy to share the setup!
hey matt, just picked up an RX-8, if you could share some knowledge on this chassis for suspension setup that would be amazing, coming from a TT prepped FRS.
ConnorLug hey man. Yeah I put my latest modifications and setup in the video description in my latest videos, so that's a good starting point. 13.5" ride height center of hub to fender all around, about -2.7 front and -2.3 rear camber, zero front toe, a hair of rear toe in.
197hp 2005 rx8. 2012 brz 200hp
Neck to Neck i would say
I saw in another post you were using 245 tire size as your wet tire but in this video you are using a 235. I have an rx8 and use 245 Sp4s but I’m thinking of getting a 17 inch wheel and running lower tread wear tire, 235. Was hopping for your thoughts on this.
For high speed tracks, 235-245 width is best. For lower speed tracks and autocross, wider is better (255-265+). You lose quite a bit of mph on straights with taller, wider, heavier tires in a low power car like rx8.
Matt Huffman Really appreciate your input! 235 it is! 💪
似てますね😊
Do you have a stock oil regulator, modified one or one from an FD?
Modified... Tweaked by the engine builder, pineapple racing. Along with other tweaks like seals, balancing.
Matt Huffman gotcha! Thanks 😁
Cool ! ^^
But you know that you can deactivate the "biiip" ? x)
Beelzebuth I did not know that, although I don't mind having it there.
Hey Matt, have you ever experienced unexpected fuel cuts during the narrower left handers??
Berry29tm yes I have fuel cut issues below 1/3 tank during left hand turns. Mainly dominion and summit point Shenandoah. Vir I am generally good down to 1/4 tank ish. Sustained left hand corners is a known rx8 issue due to the fuel tank design.
Thanks, yesterday i had issues with half a tank even in the straight after a huge u-turn left hander.. i had to exit the track and go to the nearest fuel station to get it filled up.. i was worried it could be related to oil premixing and thus injectors..
Is there any known way to fix the problem?
Berry29tm some guys use a series 2 fuel pump. Rx8club had discussion on the subject. Your girl pump may just be weak. I got an airtek aftermarket pump and it's working pretty well
Berry29tm I'm not 100% on this as I haven't pulled my tank (09 RX8). But I was told the series 2 basically has 2 fuel pumps due to the tank design. One on each side to avoid this issue of cutting. I haven't had any cutting out even in left or right turns at tires breaking point with 1/8 tank. Even with fuel light in I haven't had it cutting out
I was having issues with power drops in hard corners and it turned out to be a failing fuel pump.
That rx8 looks down on power , especially the straights. And One quick BRZ !
That was much closer to stock. It's a lot quicker these days. I'd say quicker than the brz. 😉
Damn traffic!
Well, my opinion is what I see. First you have to upgrade your differential with 4.77 ring and pinion. Second you aren't experienced, your shifting times are slow and very slow your down shifting. Rx8 definitely should beat gt86. It's not the car it's you. Imagine you are 200 kilos heavier and car performed so well even with you inexperience. To my rx8 have made some upgrades that performed very well and looking forward for some more.
Slow shifting is so the relatively fragile s1 transmission lasts for multiple seasons. Sure i can shift faster but I'd prefer to not to grenade the trans. I street drive to and from events and don't have a trailer. Regarding not driving well, do you have any other specific pointers? I'm always open to recommendations from those more skilled than me.
Oh and i do have the 4.77 now. It's a great upgrade
@@rx8matt well about trans add motorkote. I have changed water pump, water radiator with misimoto, ffs in stock ecu. Transmission is fragile, only with the wrong care. Good oil and good additive as motorkote you can enjoy it as you want
I placed Castrol oil 75w90 gl4 and motorkote. I place motorkote and in engine oil too.
@@rx8matt I don't see anything wrong with your driving Matt👍
Nice
五分ってこと？
Too bad the cost of VIR is ridiculous...
nan3r well... it's a premier facility, with all the maintenance and upkeep. and they have the EMT staff and event organizers. it's not cheap, but there's definitely cost required to operate it.
nan3r if you're looking to try it out for cheap, NASA often offers "hyperdrives", which are single sessions for $50. Good way to get on track and experience it first hand.
Matt Huffman very cool, I will have to look into that. Thanks!
Matt Huffman You sure can tear VIR up. Great driving, great videos
I think you should learn how to up shift quicker. Otherwise nice driving
Davis Saelee thanks man. I could certainly shave some time with quicker shifts, and I do shift quicker during timed competition sessions, but when I'm not racing I go easy on the synchros. No transmission lasts forever and the easier you are generally the longer it will last.
Matt Huffman no problem, I been seeing your recommendation videos, and thought I may as well comment. If you already know how to quick shift, I do apologize. Keep bringing in more content, surely will subscribe.
Davis Saelee thanks, will do!
一体何人乗っているの？
はい、大きな品種があります
Sadly the brz could do few laps more while the dude in rx8 had to find a petrol station xD
Ooo, burn! Honestly their on-track fuel consumption doesn't differ drastically. Street is a different story