I'm much younger than you James, my friends and I started playing 5e with no idea how. Over the few years we've been playing, I discovered how bereft newer editions are - I have been lurking in the OSR for a while. You're definitely right, philosophy comes before mechanics (though they should support each other). Planning to run a b/X game soon, thanks for the advice
Good stuff, man. I started playing in 95 and ran 2E for five years while taking a lot of inspiration from 1E. We switched to 3E when it came out, then to Pathfinder 1E, then 5E, and now I'm sick of the modern game and the culture around it. I'm sitting here pondering the next game to run for my group and my thoughts keep drifting to the hardback original 1E books on my shelf. I think it's time to dust them off.
I feel like a child next to you. I started playing Dungeons & Dragons when I was 13 years old, when it was released here in Brazil, with that beautiful art by Jeff Easley. Six months later, there was no material available here, such as adventures or scenarios, and we wanted to pass the second level, so we started playing AD&D 2e, which was what we found in the few bookstores that imported the material to Brazil. I didn't have the opportunity to get to know the first edition (don't fight me, please 😂). Since I played AD&D 2e for most of my life, I got used to its rules. Other than that, in addition to the Tolkienian fantasy, I really like the Dark Sun setting. Maybe it should be a separate game like Gamma World was. Well, having said all that, thanks for the video.
I played a lot of 2e, never changed the demon/devil thing. I would agree the splat books did start to weigh it down. I liked THAC0, I thought it made it easier. I don't remember many 2e modules that stick out
Check out the Gates of Firestorm Peak (2e). We finished it, very awesome and bizarre. Lots of PCs deaths and the ones who made it through are effed up/traumatized. One of them went insane (I secretly rolled, and they'll come back to "normal" after 3 game years)
started on 1e shortly before 3e came out. we used some 2e modules sometimes but never bothered to get new books. still run a 1e group and its still my preferred game for many reasons you talk about. thanks again for the book, mine has over 20 years worth of use and its been on the verge of falling apart for years. it deserves to retire on a shelf at this point lol.
There is no roleplaying when everyone can do everything. The limitations that exist in B/X, BECMI & AD&D are what create the opportunities for roleplay.
In defense of all my years of running in, and occasionally playing in, 2nd edition, we used UE racial level limits very strictly, and did away with individual XP awards. But, you're right in that once it left true 1E, humanocentric focus flew out the window and munchkin did start with many tables. I fought that hard all my DM-ing life at my personal table and at Cons where I ran it, and at college in the late-night game sessions. 3E and beyond is just a mess in that way. Some good points here, James.
Good video! Keep up the good work. I like hearing stories of the good old days. Unfortunately, I didn't get to play D&D when I was younger. So, I don't have a lot of the memories that some have of older editions. I eventually got into the hobby later in life. Reguardless, I've had a good time with each edition I've played. I think a lot of it is what you and your group make of it. 👍
Yup. You hit it on the head. Agree 100%. First ed. is the way to go to capture thr true spirit of what is AD&D. Well done vid, James. Appreciated. ~Fritz
Fascinating video. I've always wondered what the differences were for 1st and 2nd edition. I've played a lot of different rpg systems and am always interested in learning more about them. I recently picked up Old-School Essentials Classic Fantasy, and wondered what was similar to early D&D.
1E player from 1979 here. Thanks for the comparison-haven’t tried 2E yet. Don’t hate 3.5 or 5, but neither beats 1E for quality play, especially 1E modified by Judges Guild and Dragon Mag optional rules.
As someone who played both in the 90s, I can confidently say 2e was NOT power-gaming. It was just as deadly as 1e. Having more class/race options did NOT equate to more power, like 99% of the time. You had to wrench the book as hard as you could just to get a single +1 bonus, and oftentimes that bonus came with multiple baked-in hindrances. Multi-classing was possible, but your XP growth rate was horrendously slow. Even the crunchiest builds weren't stealing the show or undermining the modules. Most of the kits and other options either had hindrances that were too crippling, or only provided social interaction bonuses that did nothing useful in a dungeon or encounter. Sure there would always be that one guy who would attempt the whole power-gaming thing, but they would tend to fail a save and system shock, and die in a fluke monster encounter. Or fail a surprise roll and get sucker punched by bandits... they'd soon be rolling up a new character. Although the multi-class demi-humans were more front-loaded, they would be quickly outpaced by human clerics, or fighters, or thieves. Conversely, 1e had the barbarian which basically undermined the concept of party roles by being a class that could run the whole show by themselves. Heck, I've seen a 1e barbarian solo modules. Unless the definition of power-gaming has changed, I think we need to look no further than that 1e class. I also find the accusation of 2e's power-gaming unusual, as a LOT of 1e veterans accuse 2e of powering down several classes.
My man! Well said and totally true! I am just getting back into DnD after stopping play when we found Warhammer 40k. Now, were ready for our old DnD game again. And should the nieces and nephews showvan interest, theyre getting the full blown ADnD from 1981. JOY!❤
I have played both 1st and 2nd edition and can confortably say that they play the same. I can't see all that difference in the phylosophy behind the systems. The differences are in the rules, more messy and unrefined in 1st, more organized and versatile in 2nd. On my part, 2nd edition always felt better, exactly because it was more versatile. Not being from the US, I didn't care in the least about satanic panic and other idiocies that were fashionable there at the time, so for me a demon is a demon and any character could be an assassin, if it killed for money or for phylosophy. All the splatbooks added something. There was absolutely no need to use everything every time, but you could always find some bit that was perfect for your next campaign, so they were actually useful, even if they ended up as moneygrabbing tools for TSR. Albeit some form of "build" was possible in 2nd edition, by carefully combining race, base class(es), kits, and proficiencies, it was nowhere near to what true character customization became with 3rd edition. The only true building-oriented material in 2nd edition was the skill points system from Skills and Powers, which was VERY optional and required a lot of adaptation work on the DM's part. It was rather incomplete, though, because it didn't include most of the optional material, as well as poorly balanced.
I played a lot of 1st ADnD and you'd have the conversation "I want to play a [Race] [Class] but max level is only 5" DM: "Just ignore that." As a DM, I tended to apply it to monsters/NPCs, so you would never find a Level 8 Half-Orc Wizard, but if that's what a player wanted to play, I'd totally let them without the restriction.
I started with 1E back in 1982! After i was kicked out of the navy for having Beta Thalsemia in 1990. i found a group and they played 2E and i played with them for 19 years till i had to drop from the game! I prefer 2E over 1E, but love both!
I started playing when I was 6(1991), borrowing (stealing) my dad's Mystara books. My brother and I would create our own games with the setting, toys, and what 6 siders we got from the Yahtzee box. Finally my dad let me join the group when I was 10. So 1995 I started with the black series 2e.
Wish I could have gotten in on that player’s handbook prize. I’m 2 years late! Still, better late than never, at least I got an informative video out of it. I was like 7 when 3e came out, and started playing a few years later at 11. I played crpgs that utilized older systems, but never got to experience 1st or 2nd ad&d over the table. Thanks for the video.
I feel like the 1e DMG (Best DMG of any edition, IMO) and its thickness compared to the 1e PHB hint at a different philosophy of DM:Player knowledge (thus power?) Ratio?
I'm currently running DCC but I continually refer to the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide due to all the great information in there. It's definitely worth buying and reading even if you aren't playing AD&D.
I really came late to the party. I started in the mid-90s at the age of 13 with a local german game-system (Midgard) and stayed with it a really long time before I tried out something different. It was AD&D 2nd at that time that caught my attention and I really loved it (including the additional books). I have to say, that we almost always played homebrewed adventures so I have no memory of game modules of that time. Then I quited playing for a long time due to my work-load and missing freetime. We started a new group 2016 with 5E. At first I didn't noticed what was missing. We stopped playing 5E after one campaign. Now I am 46 years old and we started an Old-School-Essentials campaign this year. I really like the feel of that game. The pure heart and soul of a game as it was meant to be played. It is now that I got into it and started buying the old AD&D 1E books. Now I know what was missing in 5E. It is the feeling of real adventure and danger that I never got out of 5E. My players need a bit more time to adjust to the old-school-systems. As I did they grew up in a power-play-environment and it is hard to let go the old habits. But I am sure it will pay out in the end. Thank you for giving insights. I really like your channel.
I am still entwined with 1E and I only bought ANY 5E books when Adventures in Middle Earth came out - those guys did GREAT at presenting Tolkein in an RPG, despite the challenges of working with 5E IP and the players of 5E in my experience.
I started with BECMI. I switched to AD&D 1e later. I looked into AD&D 2e when it came out. I switched to 2e because of how the core books are organized. With the way my brain works, it is easier for me to find things in 2e. I only need two books, instead of the whole 1e library for the information I use in my game. 1e is great, but as a DM I have an easier time running 2e. I also prefer the format of the 2e Monstrous Compendiums over that of the 1e Monster Manuals and Fiend Folio. I find the extra information helpful. Yes, the hostile corporate takeover of TSR changed D&D. Yes, there was an over abundance of books and box sets released for 2e. It Was a big money making scheme. However, no one Had to invest heavily into 2e to be able to have fun. The PHB, DMG, and a Monstrous Compendium are all you need. The same is true of 1e. You just need the PHB, DMG, and a Monster Manuel or the Fiend Folio. But like I said, I used the whole 1e library. Switching for me made sense. My game bag was a Lot lighter after the switch. lol
Old vid but people are still commenting on it sooo... I started playing (Living) AD&D 1st in 1983. Absolutely absorbed the main 3 and somehow managed to play more hours a week than I spent in school. Like most of my gaming friends I was a walking AD&D encyclopedia. Years later when we did finally get around to AD&D 2nd ed. I only ever read skills and powers because that's where our power gamer interest lay. I still have my AD&D 2nd books but I've never read the players or the DM's. For me personally I just can't as the layout, art, etc. drives my ADHD nuts! When we finally got around to 3rd addition in 2003 I pretty much hated it. I was running a table of 6 in those days and holy cheese was it over powered. By about 6th or 7th level my group was laying waste to everything I threw at them. We played it for a year and at the end of the campaign I passed out 1st ed players manuals to those that didn't have them and said we'll be playing this from now on. These days I'm more into the OSR: whitebox, C&C, etc.. C&C is pretty good imo and I enjoy house ruling some of the others. Adding my own flavor to games like whitebox, OSE, and others brings back a lot of memories for this old Grognard.
@@goodbuddy7607Arneson never even had rules for his game so without Gygax you wouldn't even have a game to play. Arneson basically made things up as he went.
Changing Demons and Devils was definitely an overreaction at the time. But, in my opinion, Baatazu sounds a lot more mysterious and evil than Devil. When I think Devil, the first image that comes to my mind is a man in a red suit with horns, a cape, and a pitchfork.
I've got core books for Basic and every version of AD&D and going through them it is surprising how much more of a complete game Basic and 1e present (the only two versions I have that I've never actually played). I think 2e is good, it's what I started with and I've got good and bad to say about every edition that I've played, but every edition seems to have removed more and more from the base book and either moved it to a supplement or nowhere at all.
2:13 Oddly the 1e DMG has thac0 in the back monster listing.. aaand that is also where you find how many xp an orc is worth. My big thing with 2e was it's compatibility/crossover value with B/X or RC.
I will disagree with you on one point. Yes, you are right that 1e will have the spirit of Gygax's D&D, especially due to the nature of how writing works, BUT it is not the only edition one can make fun and epic memories from, or even horrible ones that stick with you for a lifetime. To be honest, I don't think it's the system that prompts these memories to hold with us to our graves. I personally think it's the people we are playing with. Case in point, I don't like 5e, though that's the only game in the d&d lineup that I CAN run at the moment, but I can tell you the major events that happened in each session of 20 main session, and 11 one on one side sessions, majority of which were not planned and a good number of that could have happened regardless of the system. That all being said, I wanted to ask you, since I have never had the pleasure of playing 1e or 2e, with little hope of you having 3e, 4e, or 5e books, and with slightly greater hope of you having a little experience playing or running those systems, which do you think would be best for a low fantasy setting? High fantasy setting? And as a side question, best and worst system to homebrew into a high or low fantasy setting?
I am trying to get my group to try 1e. Everything about 1e encourages you to interact with the world and setting. 3e and on has you interacting with your character sheet.
Indeed. If you're interested in gaming on-line , or just want to compare notes on 1E play I have a discord for my campaign The Ten Thousand Islands - a world of Vikings and Greeks
When 2E came out, I went and bought Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing. That was the obvious choice for me. That was one new RPG book to spend money on, as opposed to three. And Warhammer had all the atmosphere that AD&D 2E didn't.
1st and 2nd are like Canadian and American English, not enough to matter. But 2nd edition manuals were physically crap. The splat books were uncoordinated junk. You get a better purchase with 1st AD&D. If you are not wanting to play 1st AD&D then just go to 3.5 and forget 2nd ever happened.
@@dmjamesplaysosr My definition may vary. (I don't count the core 3 as splatbooks.) I was thinking of... A couple of black books like "Player's Option: Skills and powers" The Tome of Magic & Book of Artifacts A few green or blue softcovers like DMRG3 Arms and Equipment Guide or Sages and Specialists The score or so "Complete guide to " brown softcovers PHBR1 The Complete Fighter's Handbook That put me in the range of 3 dozen or so. Upon further review, I missed several.
Most of that material was damn good, too. Combat & Tactics was great. High-Level Campaigns was important. The Book of Villains is still useful today. There's a world of difference between this thing and something like The Book of Vile Darkness.
I believe that players attempting to min/max, or power game, is more of a product of player mentality. We live in a generation of video gamers instead of war gamers. One needs only glance at 3rd thru 5th Edition to see the difference from 1E & 2E AD&D
xp for gold it is optional for 2e: it is there if you want to use it (as I do). to me, the main difference is phylosophy but it is true that 2e changed some basics that were fundamental part of 1e.
I owned the 1e books, but they were so dense that they felt inaccessible to me. We didn't actually start playing AD&D until 2e because the text was just so much more cleaned up. I don't think any of us actually played with the splat books, so it still had a 1e feel, especially in comparison with later versions.
I would love to partner up with guys like you to reorganize all ADND 1E books into one PHB to rule them all! So we could spread the 1E greatness to all
This already happened years ago, when OSRIC was published. It created the entire OSR movement, birthed the phenomena of Retroclones, and remains the cheapest, easiest, best laid out version of 1e AD&D available. Recently, someone pulled all the player relevant content and published it alone as a phb, as OSRIC was a full replacement for the core trilogy, PHB, DMG and MM. I think the phb is about 8$ on lulu. And they're all free .pdfs of course.
Wild how much worse each edition got. 2e still pretended to prioritize setting. Now in 5e it's just, "your identity is all that really matters ." Like some kind of GQ multiverse.
Do you recomend Osric? I m thinking about printing osric and getting the pdfs of first edition, for comparison and for monsters like the beholder and mindflayers
Awesome video. Thanks for making it. I am coming froom DMing 5e. I picked up the B/X books and loved them. Now I'm trying to decide between 1e and 2e. Am I too late for the prize? :D
Before 2E people used xp as a guide, people could figure out a monster’s AC by what it took to hit. The way I see it, it’s all just the old brown Greyhawk/ Blackmoor books with some home brew on it. Pick the home brew that’s fun for you.
How about initiative? I'm running 2e with 1d10, minus Dex bonus and magic bonus of weapon, add speed factor or casting time. Start calling low numbers and go up "Anyone less than 1? Okay 1s? 2s..." Don't need " Counterspell" spells like 5e, when you can stab the caster during his casting time.
If I wanted to become a dungeon master for Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1st Edition, which book should I read first between players handbook and Dungeon Masters guide? I’m coming from 5e and BX
I remember when 2e came out and looking at it and thinking “yeah it’s cleaner but it’s not different enough” so we stuck with 1e. BUT we stole thac0 … that was a god send. Interesting insight. I never realised the whole build culture started in 2e.
Except that it didn't; look up Roger M. Wilcox's _The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters;_ it has all the build culture and ridiculous proliferation of powers, and it was written with 1e in mind. The sequel _The Sick Kids_ takes a shot as _Unearthed Arcana,_ and the never quite finished _The Intercontinental Proliferation of Disgusting Characters_ deals with the transition to 2nd Edition. It is also a riot, I recommend it. Regardless, those strains existed well before Gary was defenestrated from TSR and the bigshots there decided they needed a new edition to stop paying him royalties. 2e has a lot of blame to receive, but getting started with build culture is not one of them.
I played 2e as a teen, I never even knew the history or that anything was lost. Just bought heroquest to play with my boys but after we finish I would like to move up. What would you recommend?
Yeah I started with 2nd edition and the BECMI set (I still have all those sets minus the boxes) we used some things from 1st edition like monks and assassins but never really played a purely 1st edition game... I am still with the same dungeon master I had then, we are best friends and have been gaming together since I was like.. 15 maybe??? I'll be 47 in the later part of the year xD. Our go to D&D game system now is Adventurer Conqueror King for our BECMI style games, and for the advanced feel, we change between castles & crusades and swords and wizardry.
2nd was removing the flavor, the DnDness from it and made more vanilla fantasy. For me, they took a lot of the arbitrary nonsense (level caps, XP for gold come to mind) out of it. But I play Rolemaster, Runequest, Harnmaster and Gurps, which all strive after realism.
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons was created so that Gary could remove Dave Arneson from the copy write of D&D. Second edition was created to remove Gary from the copy right of D&D and to also make it a family friendly game to sell more copies of the game. Yes it was a cash grab.
I wouldn't, myself and didn't, discredit it for that, but we just threw that Satanic Panic crap out and called them what they were...Devils and Demons. Marketing might try, but tables rule the day in the end! 👍Good to see ya, Sunshin. Sorry about the Play-by-Email, man...life and stuff.
The one thing I hate, absolutely hate, about ADnD1e is Gary saying in the opening there won't be any baseless restriction of female character, only to look at character creation where female PCs are consistenly worst than male. It's so fucking sexist I wanna puke every time I see the beautiful cover art.
I'm much younger than you James, my friends and I started playing 5e with no idea how. Over the few years we've been playing, I discovered how bereft newer editions are - I have been lurking in the OSR for a while. You're definitely right, philosophy comes before mechanics (though they should support each other). Planning to run a b/X game soon, thanks for the advice
Good stuff, man. I started playing in 95 and ran 2E for five years while taking a lot of inspiration from 1E. We switched to 3E when it came out, then to Pathfinder 1E, then 5E, and now I'm sick of the modern game and the culture around it. I'm sitting here pondering the next game to run for my group and my thoughts keep drifting to the hardback original 1E books on my shelf. I think it's time to dust them off.
I feel like a child next to you. I started playing Dungeons & Dragons when I was 13 years old, when it was released here in Brazil, with that beautiful art by Jeff Easley. Six months later, there was no material available here, such as adventures or scenarios, and we wanted to pass the second level, so we started playing AD&D 2e, which was what we found in the few bookstores that imported the material to Brazil. I didn't have the opportunity to get to know the first edition (don't fight me, please 😂). Since I played AD&D 2e for most of my life, I got used to its rules. Other than that, in addition to the Tolkienian fantasy, I really like the Dark Sun setting. Maybe it should be a separate game like Gamma World was.
Well, having said all that, thanks for the video.
I played a lot of 2e, never changed the demon/devil thing. I would agree the splat books did start to weigh it down.
I liked THAC0, I thought it made it easier. I don't remember many 2e modules that stick out
@@toonz9971 Many of those settings are 1e settings.
Check out the Gates of Firestorm Peak (2e). We finished it, very awesome and bizarre. Lots of PCs deaths and the ones who made it through are effed up/traumatized. One of them went insane (I secretly rolled, and they'll come back to "normal" after 3 game years)
Great video. I came in with the 2nd printing (covers) of 1e AD&D. Best memories! Starting N1 today for a big group of players!
2e was the beginning of D&D's disneyfication. The less said about the unplayable options books the better. I started with B/X in October, 1982.
We went to different schools together
I started in 1979, 2nd edition splat books destroyed 2e. If you exclude them and play a game combining 1e with small parts of 2e it all works.
started on 1e shortly before 3e came out. we used some 2e modules sometimes but never bothered to get new books. still run a 1e group and its still my preferred game for many reasons you talk about. thanks again for the book, mine has over 20 years worth of use and its been on the verge of falling apart for years. it deserves to retire on a shelf at this point lol.
There is no roleplaying when everyone can do everything. The limitations that exist in B/X, BECMI & AD&D are what create the opportunities for roleplay.
Exactly my point.
In defense of all my years of running in, and occasionally playing in, 2nd edition, we used UE racial level limits very strictly, and did away with individual XP awards.
But, you're right in that once it left true 1E, humanocentric focus flew out the window and munchkin did start with many tables. I fought that hard all my DM-ing life at my personal table and at Cons where I ran it, and at college in the late-night game sessions.
3E and beyond is just a mess in that way. Some good points here, James.
Good video! Keep up the good work. I like hearing stories of the good old days. Unfortunately, I didn't get to play D&D when I was younger. So, I don't have a lot of the memories that some have of older editions. I eventually got into the hobby later in life. Reguardless, I've had a good time with each edition I've played. I think a lot of it is what you and your group make of it. 👍
Glad you enjoyed!
Yup. You hit it on the head. Agree 100%. First ed. is the way to go to capture thr true spirit of what is AD&D. Well done vid, James. Appreciated.
~Fritz
Fascinating video. I've always wondered what the differences were for 1st and 2nd edition. I've played a lot of different rpg systems and am always interested in learning more about them. I recently picked up Old-School Essentials Classic Fantasy, and wondered what was similar to early D&D.
Glad you enjoyed it!
1E player from 1979 here. Thanks for the comparison-haven’t tried 2E yet. Don’t hate 3.5 or 5, but neither beats 1E for quality play, especially 1E modified by Judges Guild and Dragon Mag optional rules.
As someone who played both in the 90s, I can confidently say 2e was NOT power-gaming. It was just as deadly as 1e. Having more class/race options did NOT equate to more power, like 99% of the time. You had to wrench the book as hard as you could just to get a single +1 bonus, and oftentimes that bonus came with multiple baked-in hindrances. Multi-classing was possible, but your XP growth rate was horrendously slow. Even the crunchiest builds weren't stealing the show or undermining the modules. Most of the kits and other options either had hindrances that were too crippling, or only provided social interaction bonuses that did nothing useful in a dungeon or encounter. Sure there would always be that one guy who would attempt the whole power-gaming thing, but they would tend to fail a save and system shock, and die in a fluke monster encounter. Or fail a surprise roll and get sucker punched by bandits... they'd soon be rolling up a new character. Although the multi-class demi-humans were more front-loaded, they would be quickly outpaced by human clerics, or fighters, or thieves.
Conversely, 1e had the barbarian which basically undermined the concept of party roles by being a class that could run the whole show by themselves. Heck, I've seen a 1e barbarian solo modules. Unless the definition of power-gaming has changed, I think we need to look no further than that 1e class. I also find the accusation of 2e's power-gaming unusual, as a LOT of 1e veterans accuse 2e of powering down several classes.
Not to mention that many of the 2e monsters were far deadlier then 1e.
My man! Well said and totally true! I am just getting back into DnD after stopping play when we found Warhammer 40k. Now, were ready for our old DnD game again. And should the nieces and nephews showvan interest, theyre getting the full blown ADnD from 1981. JOY!❤
I have played both 1st and 2nd edition and can confortably say that they play the same. I can't see all that difference in the phylosophy behind the systems. The differences are in the rules, more messy and unrefined in 1st, more organized and versatile in 2nd.
On my part, 2nd edition always felt better, exactly because it was more versatile. Not being from the US, I didn't care in the least about satanic panic and other idiocies that were fashionable there at the time, so for me a demon is a demon and any character could be an assassin, if it killed for money or for phylosophy.
All the splatbooks added something. There was absolutely no need to use everything every time, but you could always find some bit that was perfect for your next campaign, so they were actually useful, even if they ended up as moneygrabbing tools for TSR.
Albeit some form of "build" was possible in 2nd edition, by carefully combining race, base class(es), kits, and proficiencies, it was nowhere near to what true character customization became with 3rd edition.
The only true building-oriented material in 2nd edition was the skill points system from Skills and Powers, which was VERY optional and required a lot of adaptation work on the DM's part. It was rather incomplete, though, because it didn't include most of the optional material, as well as poorly balanced.
I played a lot of 1st ADnD and you'd have the conversation "I want to play a [Race] [Class] but max level is only 5" DM: "Just ignore that." As a DM, I tended to apply it to monsters/NPCs, so you would never find a Level 8 Half-Orc Wizard, but if that's what a player wanted to play, I'd totally let them without the restriction.
I started with 1E back in 1982! After i was kicked out of the navy for having Beta Thalsemia in 1990. i found a group and they played 2E and i played with them for 19 years till i had to drop from the game!
I prefer 2E over 1E, but love both!
I started playing when I was 6(1991), borrowing (stealing) my dad's Mystara books. My brother and I would create our own games with the setting, toys, and what 6 siders we got from the Yahtzee box. Finally my dad let me join the group when I was 10. So 1995 I started with the black series 2e.
Wish I could have gotten in on that player’s handbook prize. I’m 2 years late! Still, better late than never, at least I got an informative video out of it. I was like 7 when 3e came out, and started playing a few years later at 11. I played crpgs that utilized older systems, but never got to experience 1st or 2nd ad&d over the table. Thanks for the video.
I feel like the 1e DMG (Best DMG of any edition, IMO) and its thickness compared to the 1e PHB hint at a different philosophy of DM:Player knowledge (thus power?) Ratio?
I'm currently running DCC but I continually refer to the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide due to all the great information in there. It's definitely worth buying and reading even if you aren't playing AD&D.
I really came late to the party. I started in the mid-90s at the age of 13 with a local german game-system (Midgard) and stayed with it a really long time before I tried out something different. It was AD&D 2nd at that time that caught my attention and I really loved it (including the additional books). I have to say, that we almost always played homebrewed adventures so I have no memory of game modules of that time. Then I quited playing for a long time due to my work-load and missing freetime. We started a new group 2016 with 5E. At first I didn't noticed what was missing. We stopped playing 5E after one campaign. Now I am 46 years old and we started an Old-School-Essentials campaign this year. I really like the feel of that game. The pure heart and soul of a game as it was meant to be played. It is now that I got into it and started buying the old AD&D 1E books. Now I know what was missing in 5E. It is the feeling of real adventure and danger that I never got out of 5E. My players need a bit more time to adjust to the old-school-systems. As I did they grew up in a power-play-environment and it is hard to let go the old habits. But I am sure it will pay out in the end.
Thank you for giving insights. I really like your channel.
Love 1e... I do have the fifth edition but I prefer the original
I am still entwined with 1E and I only bought ANY 5E books when Adventures in Middle Earth came out - those guys did GREAT at presenting Tolkein in an RPG, despite the challenges of working with 5E IP and the players of 5E in my experience.
I started with BECMI. I switched to AD&D 1e later. I looked into AD&D 2e when it came out. I switched to 2e because of how the core books are organized. With the way my brain works, it is easier for me to find things in 2e. I only need two books, instead of the whole 1e library for the information I use in my game. 1e is great, but as a DM I have an easier time running 2e. I also prefer the format of the 2e Monstrous Compendiums over that of the 1e Monster Manuals and Fiend Folio. I find the extra information helpful.
Yes, the hostile corporate takeover of TSR changed D&D. Yes, there was an over abundance of books and box sets released for 2e. It Was a big money making scheme. However, no one Had to invest heavily into 2e to be able to have fun. The PHB, DMG, and a Monstrous Compendium are all you need. The same is true of 1e. You just need the PHB, DMG, and a Monster Manuel or the Fiend Folio. But like I said, I used the whole 1e library. Switching for me made sense. My game bag was a Lot lighter after the switch. lol
Gotta disagree on this one. My 2e games had a lot of D&D soul in them.
Just imagine how much more awesome they would have been had you been running AD&D1e?
@@dmjamesplaysosrHey this is off topic but I couldn't help but notice the icon corner behind you. Are you orthodox?
I try to be. @@the-real-John-Oconnor
@@dmjamesplaysosr God bless you. ☦️
That's because 2e is vastly superior to 1e
Old vid but people are still commenting on it sooo... I started playing (Living) AD&D 1st in 1983. Absolutely absorbed the main 3 and somehow managed to play more hours a week than I spent in school. Like most of my gaming friends I was a walking AD&D encyclopedia. Years later when we did finally get around to AD&D 2nd ed. I only ever read skills and powers because that's where our power gamer interest lay. I still have my AD&D 2nd books but I've never read the players or the DM's. For me personally I just can't as the layout, art, etc. drives my ADHD nuts! When we finally got around to 3rd addition in 2003 I pretty much hated it. I was running a table of 6 in those days and holy cheese was it over powered. By about 6th or 7th level my group was laying waste to everything I threw at them. We played it for a year and at the end of the campaign I passed out 1st ed players manuals to those that didn't have them and said we'll be playing this from now on. These days I'm more into the OSR: whitebox, C&C, etc.. C&C is pretty good imo and I enjoy house ruling some of the others. Adding my own flavor to games like whitebox, OSE, and others brings back a lot of memories for this old Grognard.
Thank you for the post.
Personally I'd say Unearthed Arcana was the 1st cash grab with it's weal content and garbage binding.
I am partial to the Cavalier.
The first cash grab was Gygax realizing Arneson had discovered a gold mine and seizing control of it.
@@goodbuddy7607Arneson never even had rules for his game so without Gygax you wouldn't even have a game to play. Arneson basically made things up as he went.
Changing Demons and Devils was definitely an overreaction at the time.
But, in my opinion, Baatazu sounds a lot more mysterious and evil than Devil.
When I think Devil, the first image that comes to my mind is a man in a red suit with horns, a cape, and a pitchfork.
I've got core books for Basic and every version of AD&D and going through them it is surprising how much more of a complete game Basic and 1e present (the only two versions I have that I've never actually played). I think 2e is good, it's what I started with and I've got good and bad to say about every edition that I've played, but every edition seems to have removed more and more from the base book and either moved it to a supplement or nowhere at all.
Thanks for the video, brother. Christ is risen!
2nd ed AD&D (amongst other things) drowned beneath their own bloat...
2:13 Oddly the 1e DMG has thac0 in the back monster listing.. aaand that is also where you find how many xp an orc is worth.
My big thing with 2e was it's compatibility/crossover value with B/X or RC.
I will disagree with you on one point. Yes, you are right that 1e will have the spirit of Gygax's D&D, especially due to the nature of how writing works, BUT it is not the only edition one can make fun and epic memories from, or even horrible ones that stick with you for a lifetime. To be honest, I don't think it's the system that prompts these memories to hold with us to our graves. I personally think it's the people we are playing with. Case in point, I don't like 5e, though that's the only game in the d&d lineup that I CAN run at the moment, but I can tell you the major events that happened in each session of 20 main session, and 11 one on one side sessions, majority of which were not planned and a good number of that could have happened regardless of the system.
That all being said, I wanted to ask you, since I have never had the pleasure of playing 1e or 2e, with little hope of you having 3e, 4e, or 5e books, and with slightly greater hope of you having a little experience playing or running those systems, which do you think would be best for a low fantasy setting? High fantasy setting? And as a side question, best and worst system to homebrew into a high or low fantasy setting?
I can enjoy chocolate ice cream but I prefer Strawberry.
Yeah. This video sounds really grodnardy and all about edition warring. He's clearly blinded by nostalgia.
The Friday night game I’m in is 2nd edition. It’s fun!
Bad AD&D is better than no AD&D
Love your wall in the back. CIX
I am trying to get my group to try 1e. Everything about 1e encourages you to interact with the world and setting. 3e and on has you interacting with your character sheet.
Indeed.
If you're interested in gaming on-line , or just want to compare notes on 1E play I have a discord for my campaign The Ten Thousand Islands - a world of Vikings and Greeks
Don't do it. 1e is not good.
I got Osric for free, no money for WOTC. Plus I have TSR books, no money for WOTC there either.
Facinating 🖖
When 2E came out, I went and bought Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing. That was the obvious choice for me. That was one new RPG book to spend money on, as opposed to three. And Warhammer had all the atmosphere that AD&D 2E didn't.
2e is organized better in many ways, but gets too crunchy IMO.
OSRIC is better organized than 2e. I for one love that High Gygaxian writing style.
@@dmjamesplaysosr true. OSRIC did good organization
1st and 2nd are like Canadian and American English, not enough to matter. But 2nd edition manuals were physically crap. The splat books were uncoordinated junk. You get a better purchase with 1st AD&D. If you are not wanting to play 1st AD&D then just go to 3.5 and forget 2nd ever happened.
When you get a chance...no would love to see a video from you regarding the difference between AD&D, BECME and even Holmes...
Here, here, Gamer! Let's hear it, James....thnx 👍
A pity those older editions are out of print, i wish i could have the books
They are available on drivethrurpg.com
Hundreds of splatbooks? Tsk. Tsk...dozens yeah, but not hundreds. 😉
How many do you reckon? By my count TSR released 97 or so books not counting starter sets.
@@dmjamesplaysosr My definition may vary. (I don't count the core 3 as splatbooks.)
I was thinking of...
A couple of black books like "Player's Option: Skills and powers"
The Tome of Magic & Book of Artifacts
A few green or blue softcovers like DMRG3 Arms and Equipment Guide or Sages and Specialists
The score or so "Complete guide to " brown softcovers
PHBR1 The Complete Fighter's Handbook
That put me in the range of 3 dozen or so.
Upon further review, I missed several.
Most of that material was damn good, too. Combat & Tactics was great. High-Level Campaigns was important. The Book of Villains is still useful today. There's a world of difference between this thing and something like The Book of Vile Darkness.
I believe that players attempting to min/max, or power game, is more of a product of player mentality. We live in a generation of video gamers instead of war gamers. One needs only glance at 3rd thru 5th Edition to see the difference from 1E & 2E AD&D
xp for gold it is optional for 2e: it is there if you want to use it (as I do). to me, the main difference is phylosophy but it is true that 2e changed some basics that were fundamental part of 1e.
I owned the 1e books, but they were so dense that they felt inaccessible to me. We didn't actually start playing AD&D until 2e because the text was just so much more cleaned up. I don't think any of us actually played with the splat books, so it still had a 1e feel, especially in comparison with later versions.
Great video keep it up
Thank you.
I would love to partner up with guys like you to reorganize all ADND 1E books into one PHB to rule them all! So we could spread the 1E greatness to all
This already happened years ago, when OSRIC was published. It created the entire OSR movement, birthed the phenomena of Retroclones, and remains the cheapest, easiest, best laid out version of 1e AD&D available. Recently, someone pulled all the player relevant content and published it alone as a phb, as OSRIC was a full replacement for the core trilogy, PHB, DMG and MM. I think the phb is about 8$ on lulu. And they're all free .pdfs of course.
Wild how much worse each edition got. 2e still pretended to prioritize setting.
Now in 5e it's just, "your identity is all that really matters ." Like some kind of GQ multiverse.
Just ordered my DMG yesterday
I doubt you will regret it.
These two additions are virtually identical.
2nd edition is 1st edition, but more tidy, and with better artwork.
I'll say this...someone asked me what was the best year in/of rpg games...my reply was...when I was 12...
13-16 with the old crew. Playing AD&D from dusk till dawn.
2nd ed had some great art. The 2ed phb cover is still one of my faves
Do you recomend Osric? I m thinking about printing osric and getting the pdfs of first edition, for comparison and for monsters like the beholder and mindflayers
Yes very much so.
Curious. Ignoring modules, anything worth raiding from 2e otherwise?
The one and Only One Ad&D 1. Brutal
Except maybe Ad&D 2. Other versions is for little Disney adventurers
Where do you buy these books?
preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/
I always said 1e lets you play your character any way you want. 5e’s rules play the character for you.
I was very annoyed with Ad&D 2e. I only played it because everyone switched over.
As an osr guy , i get where you are coming from.
Awesome video. Thanks for making it. I am coming froom DMing 5e. I picked up the B/X books and loved them. Now I'm trying to decide between 1e and 2e. Am I too late for the prize? :D
Hi James, great video man!
Before 2E people used xp as a guide, people could figure out a monster’s AC by what it took to hit. The way I see it, it’s all just the old brown Greyhawk/ Blackmoor books with some home brew on it.
Pick the home brew that’s fun for you.
How about initiative? I'm running 2e with 1d10, minus Dex bonus and magic bonus of weapon, add speed factor or casting time. Start calling low numbers and go up "Anyone less than 1? Okay 1s? 2s..."
Don't need " Counterspell" spells like 5e, when you can stab the caster during his casting time.
There is RAW initiative and then there is how ever works best for you.
If I wanted to become a dungeon master for Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 1st Edition, which book should I read first between players handbook and Dungeon Masters guide? I’m coming from 5e and BX
The DMG1e is a must read for every DM imo regardless of what game you run.
I remember when 2e came out and looking at it and thinking “yeah it’s cleaner but it’s not different enough” so we stuck with 1e. BUT we stole thac0 … that was a god send.
Interesting insight. I never realised the whole build culture started in 2e.
Except that it didn't; look up Roger M. Wilcox's _The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters;_ it has all the build culture and ridiculous proliferation of powers, and it was written with 1e in mind. The sequel _The Sick Kids_ takes a shot as _Unearthed Arcana,_ and the never quite finished _The Intercontinental Proliferation of Disgusting Characters_ deals with the transition to 2nd Edition. It is also a riot, I recommend it.
Regardless, those strains existed well before Gary was defenestrated from TSR and the bigshots there decided they needed a new edition to stop paying him royalties. 2e has a lot of blame to receive, but getting started with build culture is not one of them.
Agreed. D&D 3e is the logical progression of AD&D 2e.
2nd edition elf maximum level for fighter is 12.
2e has cool settings released such as Birthright, Dark Sun and Planescape, how viable it's to play them in 1e without reworking too much?
2e is vastly superior to 1e
I played 2e as a teen, I never even knew the history or that anything was lost. Just bought heroquest to play with my boys but after we finish I would like to move up. What would you recommend?
Your comparison helped me a lot. Thank you.
You are welcome!
Ebay them...
Try HACKMASTER 5TH EDITION RPG. FROM KENZER AND COMPANY. A MIX BETWEEN WARHAMMER, AND 1ST EDITION D&D.
Gary Gygax got the same treatment as Walt Disney by the Disney corporation now. His legacy gets scrubbed from the public and demonized.
Yeah I started with 2nd edition and the BECMI set (I still have all those sets minus the boxes) we used some things from 1st edition like monks and assassins but never really played a purely 1st edition game... I am still with the same dungeon master I had then, we are best friends and have been gaming together since I was like.. 15 maybe??? I'll be 47 in the later part of the year xD. Our go to D&D game system now is Adventurer Conqueror King for our BECMI style games, and for the advanced feel, we change between castles & crusades and swords and wizardry.
A real grognard's perspective, but I appreciate the overview. Yes, I started in 2nd, but I miss it not.
AD@D 1ST EDITION IS BEST
Wow, so this is filled with so much misinformation!
2nd was removing the flavor, the DnDness from it and made more vanilla fantasy.
For me, they took a lot of the arbitrary nonsense (level caps, XP for gold come to mind) out of it. But I play Rolemaster, Runequest, Harnmaster and Gurps, which all strive after realism.
peanut-butter and fried salami sandwiches.
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons was created so that Gary could remove Dave Arneson from the copy write of D&D. Second edition was created to remove Gary from the copy right of D&D and to also make it a family friendly game to sell more copies of the game. Yes it was a cash grab.
Hey-o!
D&D has always been a cash grab, from the moment Gary Gygax came up with the idea to sell the game Dave Arneson was playing. 😊
Level 1 Godling is the difference well in defence that is 2.5
2e sucks. Tanaar'ri & baatezu are reason enough to discredit 2e entirely.
I wouldn't, myself and didn't, discredit it for that, but we just threw that Satanic Panic crap out and called them what they were...Devils and Demons.
Marketing might try, but tables rule the day in the end! 👍Good to see ya, Sunshin. Sorry about the Play-by-Email, man...life and stuff.
Selling out to normies never works out for the actual fans.
No it isn't. Planescape had some of the best fluff material from this entire era.
The one thing I hate, absolutely hate, about ADnD1e is Gary saying in the opening there won't be any baseless restriction of female character, only to look at character creation where female PCs are consistenly worst than male. It's so fucking sexist I wanna puke every time I see the beautiful cover art.