Yes; I think a well known bike fit specialist has been saying this for a while; race bikes are designed for 20 somethings putting out 350-400+ watts for many hours. A 9-5 office worker needs a different bike.....
Race, Endurance, All Road and Gravel, soon to be announced Unobtainium (the 20k bike everyone must have) . Based upon all the marketing hype, you could N+1 yourself into the poor house.
I agree with the n+1 philosophy. However, I adhere more to the "n-1" principle; the maximum number of bikes you can have because just one more could result in divorce 🙂
I have a specialized diverge 2019. This had the best geromomitry for endurance riding comfort for me at the time.48/32 at front and 11/34 rear. 2 sets of wheels with 28mm Conti for road and 38mm panaracer for gravel. Completed plenty of 60 plus Sportives.
Frames make a huge difference. Fork rake, trail, steerer angle define handling. The resistance to twisting between front & rear axle (that thing marketing refers to as "lateral stiffnesss") is the key metric for how well it can track a line through corners. As for getting any frame & just getting the measurements right for you, that's not strictly true either. eg: if someone needs a lot of spacers under their bars, their handling is going to be markedly different than on a frame that suits their flexibility & supports a more upright position throughframe design (think in terms of how far down the steering shaft the bearings are with v without spacers). Sorry, the design engineer in me came out for a minute.😂
@@adamjd7645 Sure, but bikes for a specific purpose (race, endurance, race gravel, bikepacking gravel) are pretty homogeneous these days. The differences in geo angles and stiffness of mainstream bikes is really small within a design category. There isn't going to be much difference with 2cm of spacer vs slammed with a taller headtube. Just avoid steerer extenders. With these factors, a back-to-back review can identify these small differences, but the owner of a modern bike will acclimate and normalize over just a few rides.
Wrong. The frame matters the most in a bike choice. I have an aethos and an orbea aero, both fitter to have the exact same ride position. Even with the same wheels; they could not feel more different.
@@slowcyclist4324 You are right about handling. Of course you can feel difference between frames, even within the same frame category. I was more thinking about the comfort and endurance aspect. I¨m just as comfortable riding 150k on my Reacto as I was on my Domane, just because my fit is the same (more or less) and I run similar tyres and pressures.
It's worty to invest into a bike fitter first before buying anything. The fitter will tune you into the correct position first, then (s)he will advise if the geometry of your preferred bike is matching the fit you need. Then by using proper saddles, stems, handlebars, etc you can perfectly get tuned to the optimal fit. Monobloc and aero cockpits are a nightmare to achieve a personalized fit. I personally have a cannondale supersix evo with an upward pointing stem and a gravel handlebar. This was the only way to achieve the best fit. The bike kind of looks ugly but the rides (4+ hrs) are painless and comfortable. I also use 28-30 tubeless tires at 4.7 bars. So all in all get a bike fit first then the bike. This way you will get the best experience out of cycling as a sport.
Great video, David, as always. I could not agree more about the premise of endurance bikes for we mere mortals. One of things you touched on was geometry between endurance and road bikes. Just this week; I was looking closely at the geometry of the new 61cm Synapse vs the new 61cm SuperSix. The dimensions are nearly identical. What I think really separates the two are things like aero tube shaping and the carbon layup between the two models. But apart from that; you are very much correct that the gap between the endurance and race platforms are starting to narrow! I always enjoy your content, Sir! Thanks!
I think you are absolutely right. Ive been riding strictly road race bikes for the last 15 years. I limit my rides to no more than 2 hours as it gets fatiguing. When I get a bit older I will get a Ti endurance bike.. For now I still love the pure racer as it makes you want to ride as hard as you can.
Riding tougher gravel stuff on my road race bike is what taught me I was wrong about my bike choice. After a few leery trails, I built up a bike that could handle trails and found it was also more comfortable on the road. I still like my more stretched out bike geometry on occasion, but I've found myself actually looking at the scenery and noticing the world around me on my gravelish bike.
The 'fitness and fun' argument was what really convinced me. Most people just give the simple advice of, "you don't need a race bike if you aren't going on races", but don't mention the other or opposite side, which is just going on fun rides every now and then, possibly to increase fitness, something most people will be more interested in. Thanks for making this video, I'll look at maybe getting an endurance bike 🙂
100% Agree. I purchased a Domane SL6 back in 2018 and love the versatility. Can Keep up with group rides and long 50 plus mile rides are more enjoyable. Super comfortable. I still have my old 2007 madone Ill take out on occasion. Thanks for making this video.
I'd still get a good gravel bike over an endurance bike. With road tires it will be comparable to the endurance bike but also with the possibility to do gravel and possibly bike packing. The manufacturers are just finding ways to milk the cow by inventing gravel race, gravel bikepacking, endurance and race bikes.
I sold my Roubaix during the pandemic because I wanted an even more versatile and comfortable ride. I bought a Lynskey titanium GR300 gravel bike and have three wheelsets I cycle through (pun intended) depending on my mood; 700c road, 700c gravel and 650b mtb. The Shimano 600 GRX 2x drivetrain meets most of my needs splendidly. My favorite setup is with 650b tires and WTB Sendero knobbies; I feel like I can ride nearly anywhere with this setup. BTW, I also use a Redshift suspension stem and suspension seatpost because singletrack descents are brutal! I start with riding road from my house to my nearby (of farby) trailhead and often concoct loops with all three surfaces; backroad , doubletrack and singletrack to boot. When riding 9n 700c road mode, I give up a little top end gearing but not much else. Score!
Yes, most people are buying the wrong bike. They should be buying a used bike with a steel or aluminum frame and rim brakes, external cable routing, and a standard seat post, stem, and handlebar. They should be focusing on a proper saddle, dialed in height and reach, good quality aluminum wheels with serviceable bearings, and supple tires (irrespective of width) instead of aero BS and high-tech gadgetry.
Spot on me and the Mrs ride 2010 to 2015 bikes and with the external cable I was able to fit the Mrs with some palm brakes so she didn't get a bad back all the time on the drops..
Sounds like a bike I tried to sell several years ago, without success, but now I'm glad I kept it, would have been one of my biggest regrets if it had sold.
@@fitzy2006uk I could afford own a "high-end" carbon bike, but there's no justification for me to do so. The bikes I own now are more than good enough for the riding I will ever do. There are many things I could buy that I'm smart enough to avoid.
This year I switched to the road bike race category. Until then I was riding the endurance category. And I've found that I'm much more comfortable riding the race than the endurance. So, at least in my case, it's not true that the endurance frame is more suitable for longer rides. I quickly figured out why the race frame is more comfortable for me. It's due to the fact that I have a longer trunk and thus longer arms relative to the length of my legs, so a more elongated frame suits me.
I think I’d get measured up and fitted for a custom steel frame , external cable routing and put a lovely mechanical campag groupo on it. Simple to work on and a joy to ride. Nice looking Willier though.
I agree 100%. I've done a couple of PBP1200 rides and hundreds of Audaxes. The biggest improvement I made (apart from modern LED lights) was buying a Trek Domane. It's by far the quickest bike I've owned but more comfy than any of my "Really comfy Steel frame" bikes. The bars are quite high BUT it means I use the drops much more than I ever did before. OK, it's not exactly like Mark Cavendish on the final sprint but I can stay in the drops for a few hours. It has micro suspension, is flexible in all the right places but totally stiff along the Drive train. That's beauty of Carbon Fibre.
It is a fallacy that endurance geometry suits everyone. A lot of people need longer & lower bikes to be comfortable and powerful. Get a bike fit and find out what geometry you need. Don’t fall for the narratives.
I absolutely agree. I have Cannondale Supersix EVO. It is technically not endurance but the comfort is close. I have reduced the stem, changed the gears to new Shimano Ultegra 12 speed and the cassette 11-34t. I also have Conti GP5000 30mm tubeless tires. I can ride rough and long routes now. By the way, I have just ridden the Hell of North with this bike.
I apply this thinking to MTB. I have a rigid steel adventure bike with 3" tyres with a tubeless set-up [20psi front, 25 rear]. This essentially provide 3cm suspension travel fore and aft. The key thing is rear cushioning - upper body has built-in suspension [fingers/wrists/elbow/shoulder] but shocks from the rear wheel are always transmitted directly to the body and this is what makes cycling tiring. Fat tyres are a simple, cheap and effective solution - but the industry want to sell you complicated suspension to make the bike more expensive than it needs to be. There is only just one bike currently on the market that fits this gap is (the surly ogre) which can run 2.8" tyres. Just as 1x drivetrains simplified gears - so fat tyres could eliminate front suspension forks and rear suspension gimmicks - making bikes easier to maintain and cheaper to produce. Carbon frames and carbon wheels could be offered to keep the luxury market alive.
My Cannondale CAAD10 use😂 to get to my lower back in 29 miles. Switched to a BMC Granfondo 01 with 28s and let's say the difference is like night and day. Very happy now.
If I didn't like bikes so much, I'd get one endurance bike, and have a couple sets of wheels for varying whatever (heck I'd even gamble and try cross too on the same setup), and simplify my life. I just like bikes.
If the tarmac had a 35mm clearance. That would really be the do it all bike. If people run extreme cross courses with 33's. The clear problem, way to expensive.
The latesr Roubaix.had a better aero than the Tarmac before...of course its Made for Paris Roubaix and have to bei fast...with.AeroRims IT looks almost like a Roadrace Aerodynamik Bike
Still waiting to see used bikes sold at a worthwhile discount. Most sellers are out of their minds thinking their used bike has retained 95% of its original price
I did that this spring. The seller bought a bike and rode it 2-3 times and then something changed and he didn’t need it any more. I bought it for a tad more than a third of what it cost brand new. It did take me awhile to find it, but I’m happy.
Absolutely correct! You make a very strong case for endurance bikes. Not every one of us is a pro racer. As for me … I can’t wait to take delivery of my Trek Domane and enjoy the heck out of it. Cheers!
If they made it as common as like the Brompton foldable bike's "suspension" block, it would probably be better. Even after years of the first Brompton being produced, they're still making it to this day.
@@Nebulacore98 And if you modify the Bromy for lightness and mid range external gearing, it's also fast and fun for the fitness buffs who aren't career racer types.
@@letsif Yup! I own an Aceoffix Ace01 (similar to a Brompton P-Line) and have it modded with Speed Mini Cycles Plume Carbon Wheelset (w/ ceramic Hubsmith Hubs) and bladed spokes along with a Carbon Litepro Seatpost, Fizik Saddle and Schwalbe Pro One Tyres with RideNow TPU Tubes (even lighter than Tubolitos). The most fun bike I've owned alongside my Aethos and it just puts a smile to my face as much as the Aethos does! It's no where near as fast as the Aethos but it's small, portable, light and the sound from the ceramic hubs is simply great and everyone including the bike shop mechanics is intrigued. Weighs 9.5kg and feels much better than the heavy internal hub Brompton A-Line/C-Line
Just buy a new bike? Most people don’t ride the same bike for more than 2-3 years anyway. Since covid, almost all the folks I know have changed bikes multiple times since they first started riding. Those who still have the same bikes, are those who don’t sell their bikes and just keep swapping between their old and new bikes.
Just bought a Canyon Endurace, absolutely love it so far. My back isn't great so the riding position works for me plus 30mm tyres and the flex seatpost mean I don't want to cry after half an hour.
Along came aluminium, then carbon, then the compact nonsesnce. Cue a load of skuldugery trying to regain the comfort. Just buy a steel bike in a size that doesn't have a ton of seatpost showing with traditional geometry, space for 30mm tyres and then it will be as it was before the marketing. Just a fraction heavier.
We don't need new bikes, nor different. We need to clone Neill Stanbury and distribute him all over the world so everybody can correct the atrocities done by sellers and retul. The right bike is the bike that fits.
In contrast to pure race bikes, endurance bikes come in a wide variety of designs, A BMC Roadmachine is essentially a race bike with higher stack and shorter reach, while the Trek Domane is almost a Gravel bike. So, it is hard to give general recommendations.
This topic has been in the forefront of my brain for many years - as once I can afford a new bike - this will be the big decision. I own a carbon synapse from 2011 and it is fast, light and comfy. But have always wondered how different it really is to a race bike, as have never had one. Would be really useful in a future video - to give a lowdown on the full spectrum of the current endurance bikes. Ie racy vs non-racy. And maybe just how different they are to their race-bike brothers (eg synapse bs supersix evo). Would be great to see a practical listing that would help decision-making for buyers. Video by Sam (can’t remember which TH-cam channel) a few days ago did this kind of comparison with synapse vs domane. So something similar but across all main bike brands. Thanks Dave!
Good idea! I raced a Synapse once, was fine apart from the compact chainset in the sprint. The new Synapse could be worth you looking at, quite racey but still comfy as well
I have a 2018 Synapse which is my goto bike. I was luucky enough to borrow a friend's £10k Systemsix evo for a week and boy, did that bike go but boy, was I glad to get off it after 50 miles!
@@ashleyhouse9690 I also have a 2017? 2018? Synapse, last of the rim brake Synapse, very comfy and my go to bike as well, I have a disc TCR which I use for sprint training but that's all. I also get blown about on the TCR with it's twitchy geometry where as riding my Synapse in the wind doesn't bother me at all.
@@davidarthur thanks Dave. Am hoping cannondale comes to its senses and over the next year or 2 accept (partial) defeat on smart sense and offer all their range of the synapse without it. And with something to then cover up where the battery currently goes (perfect for a storage space). We’ll see …
Reading some of these comments as a layperson wanting to learn what to buy, it seems that gravel bikes fitted with fast tyres for road and fat ones for gravel is the best choice.
Have a Ribble Endurance Ti. Put a REDSHIFT ShockStop PRO Suspension Seatpost on it, which is great as can stay seated on terrible road surfaces. No suspension on the front as not needed, just a light grip on the handlebars. Also have a leather brooks b17 saddle for supreme comfort. Comfortable as the Endurance bike is, the Kona Sutra tourer is even better as soaks up everything on the road , no numbness atall in the hands due to upright riding position. The Endurance bike though is more fun, light, agile and 10% faster on all routes. Next bike will be a touring recumbent tadpole trike for ultimate comfort and attention.
Gravel bike. Your average endurance frame can take wider tyres, or mudguards, not both. With the state of your typical British road, 35mm-or wider- and mudguards- are the best option.
Agree, relative to buying a road race bike when you are not actually racing. But, totally disagree. Because an endurance bike is made completely irrelevant by gravel race bikes.
Most bicycles in motion, as your read this, are getting people from A to B. I commute to work on a Dura-Ace equip Pinnarello Prince with 700X23 tiers. This is perfect for a short (d
Please don't think it's a contrarian take for contrarianism's sake, but...I really like my race bike. I'm comfortable on it, and can easily do a 5-hour ride without pain. While I agree with the general premise, as ever, "it depends." Granted I don't have a hyper-stiff, high-mod carbon frame, but my mid-range Supersix Evo feels good from mile 1 to mile 100. It definitely has some deficiencies where comfort's concerned, but I ride poorly-maintained rural roads slathered in rough chipseal and unpaved paths without feeling like I'm rattling apart. The snappy handling and general get-up-and-go nature of the bike more than make up for what it lacks, in my opinion. I've got a steel commuter fixie that a friend once described as a "couch" due to its relaxed geometry. It's upright and smooth, and I I've put as many miles on it as my C'dale. However, I'd rather go attack the road with my race frame if the mileage count starts to head north of 20-25 mi. To sum it all up: I'm with you that many people would be better served by reaching for a Roubaix or Synapse instead of a Tarmac or SuperSix, but that won't be the case for everyone. Fitness, flexibility, age, goals...all of these factor in. Probably the best option for those looking to plonk down a tidy sum on a new frame would be for folks to get a good, unbiased fit *before* reaching for their wallets.
You can set any bike up for comfort, no need to buy a specific endurance bike. Also, wider tyres are only faster on flat rough roads at lower pressure. However, too many people run 28-32mm tyres but still run 80+ psi! And when the road points upwards, the extra weight of the wider tyres slows you down.
Hey with your logic everyone would drive a Volvo :-). If you like bikes, go for the coolest fastest, blingiest one you can afford. Make it fun for you, not practical.
I agree.. My first road bike was comfy specialized and I should’ve gotten the more aggressive “cool” bike! I now have the cool bike and ride it way more just because it’s so much more fun
@@TheTomster21 If you don't always descend long or ride in wet conditions, rim brakes are fine. I'm OK with disc brakes too, especially since I know how to work on them.
I returned mine within 6 weeks when the stock carbon wheels cracked. Got a tarmac instead. Otherwise was a nice bike. Pro tip: Always pay with AMEX. They will warrant the purchase and give your money back if there is a problem.
Comfort, performance and versatility. Asgreens crux is the answer. That is if you can afford one. To me the endurance bike is becoming irrelevant. You can either choose for a race bike or a gravel bike (with a road friendly gearing if you ask me)
It's funny how bike usage differs across countries. In the Netherlands we use bicycles for a lot more and a bike like this would be totally unsuitable for most of it.
I have a mid-range Gravelbike (Cannondale Topstone 1) and an entry-mid range Roadbike (Cube Attain Race). I think especially for the city the Gravelbike is the better option, as you have badly maintained roads, lots of changes on to biking lanes etc. - so for me it's an do it all bike. While saying that, even my entry-mid range Roadbike IS faster than the Gravelbike in avarage, or at least I am faster on that... But the comfort-penalty that I take with the Roadbike, isn't worth it. So in day to day action, I usually use my Gravelbike.
Lets face it, the ONLY way u can keep your avg speed, after a big climb, is to BOMB the downhill without even thinking about the brakes (or breaking yur tuck). Its SO much easier to do on a bicycle that has stability.
I'll agree that most cyclists need an endurance bike, but I'd disagree with the premise that it must be an either/or scenario. What is my garage for if not for more bikes. Aggressive road-race bike? Check. Cyclocross / gravel bike? Check. MTB with suspension? Check. Alloy frame endurance bike with disc brakes? Check (if you allow for the fact that I bought one for my son that I occasionally "borrow"). Don't let on to our wives that it may be reasonable to go through life with only one bike. Otherwise, I'll have to start spending my money on golf clubs!
Thanks nice video I have a lovely endurance bike I have a Boardman slr 8.9 it’s my first road bike I love it, the only issue for me is to get a longer stem it feels a bit short for me
I ordered a new carbon Giant tcr on 22/3/23, still waiting like hell! Hope the Ribble doesnt take as long for you as the other commentator alludes to!😢
@@aveedub7403 technically speaking. you should be fine as its a GIANT TCR. Everything should be put together from their own factory/warehouse. The delay is more so to do with Ribble's own brand of bikes as they have been having logistics and distribution issues with suppliers since the pandemic. New ownership hasnt really helped them either and there are customer service related hoops to jump through (which arent great) when you receive your bike and its either not the one that you wanted or has lots of frame damage for odd reasons, I would prefer to deal with Giant directly, its just easier. If its not too late, I would cancel my order with Ribble and go directly to GIANT instead and see if they are willing to price match Ribble if Ribble is selling it cheaper.
As someone that's been on a flatbar hybrid for some time now, I find myself looking at the endurance road category for the next bike. I was all about the gravel bike for the even more relaxed geo and big tire clearance. But being on flat roads 99% of the time I don't need the big tires. Just changed from 38mm to 28mm tires on my hybrid, and that alone has made a big difference. Although I think 32mm would be the sweet spot for width.
Current generation endurance bikes are overlapping a lot with older gravel bikes, these days. I'd just get a gravel ("all-road" for the newest marketing crankery) bike with clearance for a round 40mm tires and you can always just run something smaller.
@joohan If your roads allow for it, 32s are a pretty good sweet point. I ride out in the middle of no where West Texas so some of the farm connectors are borderline XC rock gardens
@joohan Those things get punctured here unfortunately. Too much road debris here. And if you even sniff offroad tubeless is mandatory given our spiky plants and seeds.
@joohan You ride in Europe. Even your worst conditions are tame compared to western US. Here, we have cactus and goat heads. You can run any tire you want, it will puncture. Tubes are absolutely a no go here. And in some places tubes will put your life at risk if you get a puncture too far from rescue in the summer heat. Every smart here rides tubeless.
To be honest i see many comments that tell the endurance is mach slower than aero well something that you never realize is that the aero bikes the most of the times have 53/54 teeth crankset and endurance bikes 48/50 crank in my endurance road bike i chance from tiagra 48/50 crank to dura ace 53/54 the difference on the flat is significant from 25 khm to 32 khm per our with tiagra with dura ace 40 khm without even try so in the bikes there is a lot of manufacturers that its matter but when i hear all the time about aero is a pure bullshit the comments do the most of job and especially the rider want a good bike you dont have to spent 10.000 dolars . My is 7.590 weight without pedals and the the price was 2240 not bad i see many brands that the cost a lot and to me its make no sense. Just enjoying the rides with whatever bike it is
I hate bikes with short top tubes. I find them far too cramped, more difficult to get up for climbing. For me to compensate for the long top tube, I use a shorter stem, and raise the handlebars.
I ride my bike twice a week. It is a Specialized Allez Spint first gen. No spacers, 17ª degrees stem, outer cables, 54 tooth 1x chainring and a 132 cm wide saddle with no padding. As a normal cyclist, I think it is the worst combination as you can find, but for me, even for an alloy bike (not the most confortable material), it is the most confortable bike in the world. With all respect, for me this video does not make sense at all. Everyone has to ride the bike that get you a smile, and fulfill your needs.
A few years ago I would have said, No way--too much stack, too little reach, stupidly slack head angles, too much gimmickry with Zertz, decouplers, Future Shock, silly handlebar shapes, multi-angle stems, padded handlebar tape, etc., etc. Now I'm seeing bikes like the Giant Defy, Scott Addict, and Cannondale Synapse and I say. what took you so long?
That's a lot of negative stem angle for an endurance bike 😮 I've noticed that when reviewing endurance bikes, reviewers who are very experienced cyclists, often go for the ones that are most like race bikes. Inflexible old gits like me need something shorter and more upright. Also it seems odd to put integrated handlebar / stems on an endurance bike. Surely most of us would benefit from the flexibility of an independent stem and handlebar to tune in position and comfort.
Just got back into cycling (stopped in 1990). Major factor was because I heard how comfortable the Trek Domane was etc. No way I was coming back to a race bike geometry. I want comfort and value not straining my back etc. Some of us just want to ride for enjoyment and health. Not planning on entering races.
The latest dropped rear stays in relation to where it meets the seat-tube, give flex/suspension already - if it’s say a third of the way down the down tube, it gives about 0.5 to 1 degree flex which is about 2.5-3mm at the rear axle (55cm frame).
Given that's true, you don't need those carbon wheels then, and could be just as happy on bike that costs 1/2 that like my carbon synapse - Nice looking bike though!
Its very hard to get a low head tube aggressive frame even as spec now. Finding a 56cm effective top tube bike lower bb sub 70mm and a low stack is not easy outside if a custom build. A head tube length of 165 to 170 on a 56 is common with only a couple i can think of tbh.
A more comfortable bike will let you ride longer and more often, which will make you stronger and fitter. Being fitter is going to make you faster than any marginal aero gains ever could.
so 10 years ago a 23mm was considered a wider tyre? maybe when indurain was racing 21's you could say that, but 10 years ago aero bikes were already a thing and the last 5 years those aerobikes are used in paris roubaix. i think we are forgetting that it always was an endurance sport and these bikes are making you sit longer in the saddle as we drift away from the efficiency towards comfort. the endurance model is neither here nor there and geometry is negated by offering less sizes and non adjustable cockpits. just an opinion of course. peace
I disagree with the basic assumption of this video. Around here (Switzerland), I would estimate that at least 90% of sportive amateurs do not have aero positions or anything aero. For this reason, they require something like 50 supplementary Watts to go 40kph on flat ground, and any kind of group ride is frustratingly slow on flat ground, I'm rarely above 150W when drafting. So if you're consistently riding over 30kph on flat ground, you should definitely be considering aero.
The Wilier there is $12,786, not very attainable for the average person! How would a trek Emonda ALR 5 (2023) be? - with the stock 28 tires, or with GP5000 28’s? Or GP5000 25’s? Or the trek Domane AL5 etc.?
If you are a ‘normal’ person with normal fitness I would argue even that bike is too aggressive. Certainly if you are in your thirties and later and new to cycling. And flexibility needs to be considered. Cannot touch your toes? You might struggle on any modern road bikes without some serious alterations. I would consider a hybrid or mountain bike.
I would say the best geometry is the one you can ride without spacers under the stem. Endurance /gravel frames are better suited for most people unless you prefer a flat bar. Still, head tubes and reaches vary a lot across gravel and endurance frames.
this bike looks a bit like an oxymoron. Made for endurance, where you probably don't care too much about being aero...but then you have a one piece bar and stem and it's all internally routed! Have fun adjusting your position. It simply does not make any sense. But I agree on the concept of using an endurance road bike.
At 6:07 you’re talking about the benefits of low gearing while passing a guy walking his red Wilier up the very steep hill. Hard to tell but is it the exact same bike you are using as the example? 😀
I wondered if anybody would notice that! I think the other Wilier was a different model, not sure which one though. It highlights my point about having suitable gears for the riding you do though
True. I have an endurance bike and loving the fact I get to use the whole gear range more often, compared to the older 53-39 standard ring and 11-28 cluster.
I asked the question of whether endurance bikes still have a future, I didn’t declare them pointless. It’s part of an ongoing conversation around the evolution of bike design and matching riders to the best option
Personally I wouldn't call any bike with drop handle bars a comfortable bike , Personally if you want a bike for long rides & can go anywhere I'd have at least 2.25" tyres with a Jones handle bar .I really can't see it he point in this bike if you're not going for records .
How comfortable are you on the drops on an endurance bike vs a road, since a shorter reach would mean your back might be a bit more bent on an endurance than a road bike? EDIT: do you feel like you would be falling over' compared to a road bike ?
When I first started riding, I rode an aero bike (Merida Reacto) but hated the vibrations and the position. After that, I swapped to an endurance bike - 2022 Cervélo Caledonia 5 SRAM Rival eTap AXS - for more comfort. I loved the comfort on the flats but it was terribly heavy on the climbs with the 32mm DT Swiss E1800 Spline Aluminium Wheelset and SRAM Rival eTap AXS Groupset. It wasn't aero or light. It never suited me. It felt slower than present day aero bikes and even lightweight bikes over the climbs. So I sold the bike. Now, I'm riding a Specialized Aethos which somehow soaked up bumps better and is so much more reactive and lighter. Specialized really built the Aethos for the general public who don't do UCI races. After two bike fits and testing different sizes, it was a no brainer. One of the test bikes having an aluminium DT Swiss R470 Wheelset with SRAM Rival eTap AXS Groupset as well but felt so much different from the Cervélo Caledonia 5. I guess that's also why Cervélo ditched the Caledonia 5 endurance bike for the all-rounder Soloist at Paris Roubaix. Endurance bikes are great for comfort but my personal take is that in order to get even remotely near modern day lightweight or aero bikes like the Aethos or SL7, one would have to go up in spec to Ultegra/Force or Dura-ace/Red.
Yes; I think a well known bike fit specialist has been saying this for a while; race bikes are designed for 20 somethings putting out 350-400+ watts for many hours. A 9-5 office worker needs a different bike.....
Race, Endurance, All Road and Gravel, soon to be announced Unobtainium (the 20k bike everyone must have) . Based upon all the marketing hype, you could N+1 yourself into the poor house.
I’m just waiting for Cannondale to include a VR augmented reality head-up display and Self-Riding AI with their Smart Sense system.
..... could? 😂
I agree with the n+1 philosophy. However, I adhere more to the "n-1" principle; the maximum number of bikes you can have because just one more could result in divorce 🙂
Luckily, you decide what to get or not:)
Im thinking to buy Aero bike instead of endurance. Im extremely flexible and very comfortable with low position for long ride 150km+.
I have a specialized diverge 2019. This had the best geromomitry for endurance riding comfort for me at the time.48/32 at front and 11/34 rear. 2 sets of wheels with 28mm Conti for road and 38mm panaracer for gravel. Completed plenty of 60 plus Sportives.
And it didn't cost a million dollars. New bike prices are beyond absurd.
I am new to cycling, so thanks for this share. It is a simple solution compared to buying an expensive bike without comfort.
As long as seat height and middle seat to hoods alignment fits you, the bike does not matter much IMO. Tyre choice and tyre pressure matters much more
Frames make a huge difference. Fork rake, trail, steerer angle define handling. The resistance to twisting between front & rear axle (that thing marketing refers to as "lateral stiffnesss") is the key metric for how well it can track a line through corners.
As for getting any frame & just getting the measurements right for you, that's not strictly true either. eg: if someone needs a lot of spacers under their bars, their handling is going to be markedly different than on a frame that suits their flexibility & supports a more upright position throughframe design (think in terms of how far down the steering shaft the bearings are with v without spacers).
Sorry, the design engineer in me came out for a minute.😂
@@adamjd7645 Sure, but bikes for a specific purpose (race, endurance, race gravel, bikepacking gravel) are pretty homogeneous these days. The differences in geo angles and stiffness of mainstream bikes is really small within a design category. There isn't going to be much difference with 2cm of spacer vs slammed with a taller headtube. Just avoid steerer extenders. With these factors, a back-to-back review can identify these small differences, but the owner of a modern bike will acclimate and normalize over just a few rides.
@@overbikedrandonneuring No, they're really not. I don't think you really appreciate how much of a difference half a degree or 5mm makes.
Wrong. The frame matters the most in a bike choice.
I have an aethos and an orbea aero, both fitter to have the exact same ride position.
Even with the same wheels; they could not feel more different.
@@slowcyclist4324 You are right about handling. Of course you can feel difference between frames, even within the same frame category. I was more thinking about the comfort and endurance aspect. I¨m just as comfortable riding 150k on my Reacto as I was on my Domane, just because my fit is the same (more or less) and I run similar tyres and pressures.
It's worty to invest into a bike fitter first before buying anything. The fitter will tune you into the correct position first, then (s)he will advise if the geometry of your preferred bike is matching the fit you need. Then by using proper saddles, stems, handlebars, etc you can perfectly get tuned to the optimal fit. Monobloc and aero cockpits are a nightmare to achieve a personalized fit. I personally have a cannondale supersix evo with an upward pointing stem and a gravel handlebar. This was the only way to achieve the best fit. The bike kind of looks ugly but the rides (4+ hrs) are painless and comfortable. I also use 28-30 tubeless tires at 4.7 bars. So all in all get a bike fit first then the bike. This way you will get the best experience out of cycling as a sport.
Underrated comment. You can go to the bike fit and spend the money. Definitely worthy. Especially the saddle position.
Great video, David, as always. I could not agree more about the premise of endurance bikes for we mere mortals. One of things you touched on was geometry between endurance and road bikes. Just this week; I was looking closely at the geometry of the new 61cm Synapse vs the new 61cm SuperSix. The dimensions are nearly identical. What I think really separates the two are things like aero tube shaping and the carbon layup between the two models. But apart from that; you are very much correct that the gap between the endurance and race platforms are starting to narrow! I always enjoy your content, Sir! Thanks!
I think you are absolutely right. Ive been riding strictly road race bikes for the last 15 years. I limit my rides to no more than 2 hours as it gets fatiguing. When I get a bit older I will get a Ti endurance bike.. For now I still love the pure racer as it makes you want to ride as hard as you can.
Riding tougher gravel stuff on my road race bike is what taught me I was wrong about my bike choice. After a few leery trails, I built up a bike that could handle trails and found it was also more comfortable on the road. I still like my more stretched out bike geometry on occasion, but I've found myself actually looking at the scenery and noticing the world around me on my gravelish bike.
The 'fitness and fun' argument was what really convinced me. Most people just give the simple advice of, "you don't need a race bike if you aren't going on races", but don't mention the other or opposite side, which is just going on fun rides every now and then, possibly to increase fitness, something most people will be more interested in. Thanks for making this video, I'll look at maybe getting an endurance bike 🙂
100% Agree. I purchased a Domane SL6 back in 2018 and love the versatility. Can Keep up with group rides and long 50 plus mile rides are more enjoyable. Super comfortable. I still have my old 2007 madone Ill take out on occasion. Thanks for making this video.
I'd still get a good gravel bike over an endurance bike. With road tires it will be comparable to the endurance bike but also with the possibility to do gravel and possibly bike packing. The manufacturers are just finding ways to milk the cow by inventing gravel race, gravel bikepacking, endurance and race bikes.
I sold my Roubaix during the pandemic because I wanted an even more versatile and comfortable ride. I bought a Lynskey titanium GR300 gravel bike and have three wheelsets I cycle through (pun intended) depending on my mood; 700c road, 700c gravel and 650b mtb. The Shimano 600 GRX 2x drivetrain meets most of my needs splendidly. My favorite setup is with 650b tires and WTB Sendero knobbies; I feel like I can ride nearly anywhere with this setup. BTW, I also use a Redshift suspension stem and suspension seatpost because singletrack descents are brutal! I start with riding road from my house to my nearby (of farby) trailhead and often concoct loops with all three surfaces; backroad , doubletrack and singletrack to boot. When riding 9n 700c road mode, I give up a little top end gearing but not much else. Score!
Gravel bikes are where its at. There's no reason to buy a different bike unless you're intent is hyper specialization.
Yes, most people are buying the wrong bike. They should be buying a used bike with a steel or aluminum frame and rim brakes, external cable routing, and a standard seat post, stem, and handlebar. They should be focusing on a proper saddle, dialed in height and reach, good quality aluminum wheels with serviceable bearings, and supple tires (irrespective of width) instead of aero BS and high-tech gadgetry.
Spot on me and the Mrs ride 2010 to 2015 bikes and with the external cable I was able to fit the Mrs with some palm brakes so she didn't get a bad back all the time on the drops..
Sounds like a bike I tried to sell several years ago, without success, but now I'm glad I kept it, would have been one of my biggest regrets if it had sold.
Well now that’s interesting. I’m just about to sell my kona 2010 Jake the snake,which I’ve had from new, for a new fully integrated headset bike
Sounds like you can’t afford a high end bike
@@fitzy2006uk I could afford own a "high-end" carbon bike, but there's no justification for me to do so. The bikes I own now are more than good enough for the riding I will ever do. There are many things I could buy that I'm smart enough to avoid.
This year I switched to the road bike race category. Until then I was riding the endurance category.
And I've found that I'm much more comfortable riding the race than the endurance. So, at least in my case, it's not true that the endurance frame is more suitable for longer rides.
I quickly figured out why the race frame is more comfortable for me. It's due to the fact that I have a longer trunk and thus longer arms relative to the length of my legs, so a more elongated frame suits me.
I think I’d get measured up and fitted for a custom steel frame , external cable routing and put a lovely mechanical campag groupo on it. Simple to work on and a joy to ride.
Nice looking Willier though.
I wish people would stop banging on about bloody endurance bikes. I'm old and fat but absolutely love my tarmac SL7.
I agree 100%. I've done a couple of PBP1200 rides and hundreds of Audaxes. The biggest improvement I made (apart from modern LED lights) was buying a Trek Domane.
It's by far the quickest bike I've owned but more comfy than any of my "Really comfy Steel frame" bikes.
The bars are quite high BUT it means I use the drops much more than I ever did before. OK, it's not exactly like Mark Cavendish on the final sprint but I can stay in the drops for a few hours.
It has micro suspension, is flexible in all the right places but totally stiff along the Drive train. That's beauty of Carbon Fibre.
It is a fallacy that endurance geometry suits everyone. A lot of people need longer & lower bikes to be comfortable and powerful. Get a bike fit and find out what geometry you need. Don’t fall for the narratives.
I have a Canyon Aeroad and a Canyon Endurace. To be honest the Aeroad is just as comfortable on long rides and it’s faster and more fun to ride.
i feel the same way about my giant tcr and giant defy.
I absolutely agree. I have Cannondale Supersix EVO. It is technically not endurance but the comfort is close. I have reduced the stem, changed the gears to new Shimano Ultegra 12 speed and the cassette 11-34t. I also have Conti GP5000 30mm tubeless tires. I can ride rough and long routes now. By the way, I have just ridden the Hell of North with this bike.
You have a great bike. Having 30 mm tires seems like a nice modification.
Bet I’d beat you on my triban rc500 running my sora 😎
I apply this thinking to MTB. I have a rigid steel adventure bike with 3" tyres with a tubeless set-up [20psi front, 25 rear]. This essentially provide 3cm suspension travel fore and aft. The key thing is rear cushioning - upper body has built-in suspension [fingers/wrists/elbow/shoulder] but shocks from the rear wheel are always transmitted directly to the body and this is what makes cycling tiring. Fat tyres are a simple, cheap and effective solution - but the industry want to sell you complicated suspension to make the bike more expensive than it needs to be. There is only just one bike currently on the market that fits this gap is (the surly ogre) which can run 2.8" tyres. Just as 1x drivetrains simplified gears - so fat tyres could eliminate front suspension forks and rear suspension gimmicks - making bikes easier to maintain and cheaper to produce. Carbon frames and carbon wheels could be offered to keep the luxury market alive.
My Cannondale CAAD10 use😂 to get to my lower back in 29 miles. Switched to a BMC Granfondo 01 with 28s and let's say the difference is like night and day. Very happy now.
If I didn't like bikes so much, I'd get one endurance bike, and have a couple sets of wheels for varying whatever (heck I'd even gamble and try cross too on the same setup), and simplify my life. I just like bikes.
If the tarmac had a 35mm clearance. That would really be the do it all bike. If people run extreme cross courses with 33's. The clear problem, way to expensive.
The latesr Roubaix.had a better aero than the Tarmac before...of course its Made for Paris Roubaix and have to bei fast...with.AeroRims IT looks almost like a Roadrace Aerodynamik Bike
Nah buy bikes second hand the ones that get ridden a couple of times then get fed up and sell them for a fraction of the retail price🤫
Still waiting to see used bikes sold at a worthwhile discount. Most sellers are out of their minds thinking their used bike has retained 95% of its original price
Yeah you're got to be patient I snagged a trek 1.2 ridden twice for 70 pound and a KTM mint condition for 120🤷
1111¹11111¹11111111111¹1111111@@plain-bagel
I did that this spring. The seller bought a bike and rode it 2-3 times and then something changed and he didn’t need it any more. I bought it for a tad more than a third of what it cost brand new. It did take me awhile to find it, but I’m happy.
Absolutely correct! You make a very strong case for endurance bikes. Not every one of us is a pro racer. As for me … I can’t wait to take delivery of my Trek Domane and enjoy the heck out of it. Cheers!
What happens in 10 years time if u need to get a new elastimer insert and they dont make them any more? Why not just build flex into the frame?
Because planned obsolescence. They want everyone on an "upgrade" path like electronics.
If they made it as common as like the Brompton foldable bike's "suspension" block, it would probably be better.
Even after years of the first Brompton being produced, they're still making it to this day.
@@Nebulacore98 And if you modify the Bromy for lightness and mid range external gearing, it's also fast and fun for the fitness buffs who aren't career racer types.
@@letsif Yup!
I own an Aceoffix Ace01 (similar to a Brompton P-Line) and have it modded with Speed Mini Cycles Plume Carbon Wheelset (w/ ceramic Hubsmith Hubs) and bladed spokes along with a Carbon Litepro Seatpost, Fizik Saddle and Schwalbe Pro One Tyres with RideNow TPU Tubes (even lighter than Tubolitos). The most fun bike I've owned alongside my Aethos and it just puts a smile to my face as much as the Aethos does!
It's no where near as fast as the Aethos but it's small, portable, light and the sound from the ceramic hubs is simply great and everyone including the bike shop mechanics is intrigued. Weighs 9.5kg and feels much better than the heavy internal hub Brompton A-Line/C-Line
Just buy a new bike? Most people don’t ride the same bike for more than 2-3 years anyway.
Since covid, almost all the folks I know have changed bikes multiple times since they first started riding. Those who still have the same bikes, are those who don’t sell their bikes and just keep swapping between their old and new bikes.
Just bought a Canyon Endurace, absolutely love it so far. My back isn't great so the riding position works for me plus 30mm tyres and the flex seatpost mean I don't want to cry after half an hour.
Hi! can you fit 38mm tires?
@@RomanPaniavkin 30mm max on my CF SL, think it's 32-35mm on the CF.
@@Fallington thank you for the answer! In the end I need to buy gravel for the wider tires.
So annoying when your eyes start leaking water after 30 mins of cycling
I'm running 32s with plenty of clearance my Endurace CF SL @@RomanPaniavkin
Along came aluminium, then carbon, then the compact nonsesnce. Cue a load of skuldugery trying to regain the comfort. Just buy a steel bike in a size that doesn't have a ton of seatpost showing with traditional geometry, space for 30mm tyres and then it will be as it was before the marketing. Just a fraction heavier.
And aluminum box section rims, not the fancy high profile plastic rubbish
Dave, you are awesome..I recently switched to pirelli p zero 30mm tires and i can say they are super comfy,fast and traction is top of the game..
We don't need new bikes, nor different. We need to clone Neill Stanbury and distribute him all over the world so everybody can correct the atrocities done by sellers and retul. The right bike is the bike that fits.
In contrast to pure race bikes, endurance bikes come in a wide variety of designs, A BMC Roadmachine is essentially a race bike with higher stack and shorter reach, while the Trek Domane is almost a Gravel bike. So, it is hard to give general recommendations.
This topic has been in the forefront of my brain for many years - as once I can afford a new bike - this will be the big decision. I own a carbon synapse from 2011 and it is fast, light and comfy. But have always wondered how different it really is to a race bike, as have never had one.
Would be really useful in a future video - to give a lowdown on the full spectrum of the current endurance bikes. Ie racy vs non-racy. And maybe just how different they are to their race-bike brothers (eg synapse bs supersix evo). Would be great to see a practical listing that would help decision-making for buyers. Video by Sam (can’t remember which TH-cam channel) a few days ago did this kind of comparison with synapse vs domane. So something similar but across all main bike brands. Thanks Dave!
Good idea! I raced a Synapse once, was fine apart from the compact chainset in the sprint. The new Synapse could be worth you looking at, quite racey but still comfy as well
I have a 2018 Synapse which is my goto bike. I was luucky enough to borrow a friend's £10k Systemsix evo for a week and boy, did that bike go but boy, was I glad to get off it after 50 miles!
@@ashleyhouse9690 I also have a 2017? 2018? Synapse, last of the rim brake Synapse, very comfy and my go to bike as well, I have a disc TCR which I use for sprint training but that's all. I also get blown about on the TCR with it's twitchy geometry where as riding my Synapse in the wind doesn't bother me at all.
@@ashleyhouse9690 thanks for the insight. Probably a wise choice to (one day) go conservative. But hell those new system six evo’s look beaut
@@davidarthur thanks Dave. Am hoping cannondale comes to its senses and over the next year or 2 accept (partial) defeat on smart sense and offer all their range of the synapse without it. And with something to then cover up where the battery currently goes (perfect for a storage space). We’ll see …
Reading some of these comments as a layperson wanting to learn what to buy, it seems that gravel bikes fitted with fast tyres for road and fat ones for gravel is the best choice.
Throw in carbon wheels, and you’re set
buy a used bike. more importantly research bike fit.
Have a Ribble Endurance Ti. Put a REDSHIFT ShockStop PRO Suspension Seatpost on it, which is great as can stay seated on terrible road surfaces. No suspension on the front as not needed, just a light grip on the handlebars. Also have a leather brooks b17 saddle for supreme comfort.
Comfortable as the Endurance bike is, the Kona Sutra tourer is even better as soaks up everything on the road , no numbness atall in the hands due to upright riding position. The Endurance bike though is more fun, light, agile and 10% faster on all routes.
Next bike will be a touring recumbent tadpole trike for ultimate comfort and attention.
Gravel bike. Your average endurance frame can take wider tyres, or mudguards, not both. With the state of your typical British road, 35mm-or wider- and mudguards- are the best option.
Agree, relative to buying a road race bike when you are not actually racing.
But, totally disagree. Because an endurance bike is made completely irrelevant by gravel race bikes.
Most bicycles in motion, as your read this, are getting people from A to B. I commute to work on a Dura-Ace equip Pinnarello Prince with 700X23 tiers. This is perfect for a short (d
Please don't think it's a contrarian take for contrarianism's sake, but...I really like my race bike. I'm comfortable on it, and can easily do a 5-hour ride without pain.
While I agree with the general premise, as ever, "it depends." Granted I don't have a hyper-stiff, high-mod carbon frame, but my mid-range Supersix Evo feels good from mile 1 to mile 100. It definitely has some deficiencies where comfort's concerned, but I ride poorly-maintained rural roads slathered in rough chipseal and unpaved paths without feeling like I'm rattling apart. The snappy handling and general get-up-and-go nature of the bike more than make up for what it lacks, in my opinion.
I've got a steel commuter fixie that a friend once described as a "couch" due to its relaxed geometry. It's upright and smooth, and I I've put as many miles on it as my C'dale. However, I'd rather go attack the road with my race frame if the mileage count starts to head north of 20-25 mi.
To sum it all up: I'm with you that many people would be better served by reaching for a Roubaix or Synapse instead of a Tarmac or SuperSix, but that won't be the case for everyone. Fitness, flexibility, age, goals...all of these factor in. Probably the best option for those looking to plonk down a tidy sum on a new frame would be for folks to get a good, unbiased fit *before* reaching for their wallets.
You can set any bike up for comfort, no need to buy a specific endurance bike. Also, wider tyres are only faster on flat rough roads at lower pressure. However, too many people run 28-32mm tyres but still run 80+ psi! And when the road points upwards, the extra weight of the wider tyres slows you down.
By about 0.05%
What goes up must come down.
Hey with your logic everyone would drive a Volvo :-). If you like bikes, go for the coolest fastest, blingiest one you can afford. Make it fun for you, not practical.
Volvos are comfortable but can be fast, too 😅
I agree.. My first road bike was comfy specialized and I should’ve gotten the more aggressive “cool” bike! I now have the cool bike and ride it way more just because it’s so much more fun
Completely agree on confort, endurance. Hail endurance bikes
IMO, Giant TCR is the best of both worlds!
Had one for 2 years now. It’s pretty much slammed on the front end but absolutely love it
Almost bought a rim brake version back in late 2020, but really, there's not much to fault about this bike.
@@yonglingng5640 not rim brakes 🤢
@@TheTomster21 If you don't always descend long or ride in wet conditions, rim brakes are fine. I'm OK with disc brakes too, especially since I know how to work on them.
I returned mine within 6 weeks when the stock carbon wheels cracked. Got a tarmac instead. Otherwise was a nice bike. Pro tip: Always pay with AMEX. They will warrant the purchase and give your money back if there is a problem.
Comfort, performance and versatility. Asgreens crux is the answer. That is if you can afford one. To me the endurance bike is becoming irrelevant. You can either choose for a race bike or a gravel bike (with a road friendly gearing if you ask me)
That's why I love my Defy Advanced. Perfect all round.
It's funny how bike usage differs across countries. In the Netherlands we use bicycles for a lot more and a bike like this would be totally unsuitable for most of it.
Just bought a Willier Triestina Garda and it's so comfortable compared to my Storck which is a more aggressive set up.
I have a mid-range Gravelbike (Cannondale Topstone 1) and an entry-mid range Roadbike (Cube Attain Race). I think especially for the city the Gravelbike is the better option, as you have badly maintained roads, lots of changes on to biking lanes etc. - so for me it's an do it all bike. While saying that, even my entry-mid range Roadbike IS faster than the Gravelbike in avarage, or at least I am faster on that... But the comfort-penalty that I take with the Roadbike, isn't worth it. So in day to day action, I usually use my Gravelbike.
Wow..running to the store to buy everything you say i need😂
LOL!!!
Lets face it, the ONLY way u can keep your avg speed, after a big climb, is to BOMB the downhill without even thinking about the brakes (or breaking yur tuck). Its SO much easier to do on a bicycle that has stability.
Yep I can bomb the big downhills on my Synapse, however my TCR is just too twitchy for me in any kind of wind to descend as confidently.
Not many people would know that
Thank you for your professional opinion.
Interesting topic from the channel with topics like is "Endurance bike dead" One minute hacking a gravel bike now back to Endurance bikes
I'll agree that most cyclists need an endurance bike, but I'd disagree with the premise that it must be an either/or scenario. What is my garage for if not for more bikes. Aggressive road-race bike? Check. Cyclocross / gravel bike? Check. MTB with suspension? Check. Alloy frame endurance bike with disc brakes? Check (if you allow for the fact that I bought one for my son that I occasionally "borrow"). Don't let on to our wives that it may be reasonable to go through life with only one bike. Otherwise, I'll have to start spending my money on golf clubs!
I was thinking this would only cool one room, but it does well at cooling the entire floor.
love my 700x40c... dont want to go narrower that that ;)
Thanks nice video I have a lovely endurance bike I have a Boardman slr 8.9 it’s my first road bike I love it, the only issue for me is to get a longer stem it feels a bit short for me
I love my 2018 specialized Roubaix
Ordered a Ribble Endurance SL a couple weeks ago, can't wait for it to show up
Ribble? Youre going to be waiting a long time friend.
I ordered a new carbon Giant tcr on 22/3/23, still waiting like hell! Hope the Ribble doesnt take as long for you as the other commentator alludes to!😢
@@aveedub7403 technically speaking. you should be fine as its a GIANT TCR. Everything should be put together from their own factory/warehouse. The delay is more so to do with Ribble's own brand of bikes as they have been having logistics and distribution issues with suppliers since the pandemic. New ownership hasnt really helped them either and there are customer service related hoops to jump through (which arent great) when you receive your bike and its either not the one that you wanted or has lots of frame damage for odd reasons, I would prefer to deal with Giant directly, its just easier.
If its not too late, I would cancel my order with Ribble and go directly to GIANT instead and see if they are willing to price match Ribble if Ribble is selling it cheaper.
I'll follow up how it goes. It said the bike should ship in the beginning of june so we'll see
@@swazi5 you have my thoughts and prayers mate 🤣🤣
As someone that's been on a flatbar hybrid for some time now, I find myself looking at the endurance road category for the next bike. I was all about the gravel bike for the even more relaxed geo and big tire clearance. But being on flat roads 99% of the time I don't need the big tires. Just changed from 38mm to 28mm tires on my hybrid, and that alone has made a big difference. Although I think 32mm would be the sweet spot for width.
Current generation endurance bikes are overlapping a lot with older gravel bikes, these days. I'd just get a gravel ("all-road" for the newest marketing crankery) bike with clearance for a round 40mm tires and you can always just run something smaller.
@joohan If your roads allow for it, 32s are a pretty good sweet point. I ride out in the middle of no where West Texas so some of the farm connectors are borderline XC rock gardens
@joohan Those things get punctured here unfortunately. Too much road debris here. And if you even sniff offroad tubeless is mandatory given our spiky plants and seeds.
@joohan You ride in Europe. Even your worst conditions are tame compared to western US. Here, we have cactus and goat heads. You can run any tire you want, it will puncture. Tubes are absolutely a no go here. And in some places tubes will put your life at risk if you get a puncture too far from rescue in the summer heat. Every smart here rides tubeless.
To be honest i see many comments that tell the endurance is mach slower than aero well something that you never realize is that the aero bikes the most of the times have 53/54 teeth crankset and endurance bikes 48/50 crank in my endurance road bike i chance from tiagra 48/50 crank to dura ace 53/54 the difference on the flat is significant from 25 khm to 32 khm per our with tiagra with dura ace 40 khm without even try so in the bikes there is a lot of manufacturers that its matter but when i hear all the time about aero is a pure bullshit the comments do the most of job and especially the rider want a good bike you dont have to spent 10.000 dolars . My is 7.590 weight without pedals and the the price was 2240 not bad i see many brands that the cost a lot and to me its make no sense. Just enjoying the rides with whatever bike it is
I hate bikes with short top tubes. I find them far too cramped, more difficult to get up for climbing. For me to compensate for the long top tube, I use a shorter stem, and raise the handlebars.
I ride my bike twice a week. It is a Specialized Allez Spint first gen. No spacers, 17ª degrees stem, outer cables, 54 tooth 1x chainring and a 132 cm wide saddle with no padding.
As a normal cyclist, I think it is the worst combination as you can find, but for me, even for an alloy bike (not the most confortable material), it is the most confortable bike in the world. With all respect, for me this video does not make sense at all. Everyone has to ride the bike that get you a smile, and fulfill your needs.
A few years ago I would have said, No way--too much stack, too little reach, stupidly slack head angles, too much gimmickry with Zertz, decouplers, Future Shock, silly handlebar shapes, multi-angle stems, padded handlebar tape, etc., etc. Now I'm seeing bikes like the Giant Defy, Scott Addict, and Cannondale Synapse and I say. what took you so long?
Wasn’t this same video made about 10 years ago when bikes like the Trek Domane and Specialized Roubaix were being promoted?
A well informing video thanks
That's a lot of negative stem angle for an endurance bike 😮 I've noticed that when reviewing endurance bikes, reviewers who are very experienced cyclists, often go for the ones that are most like race bikes. Inflexible old gits like me need something shorter and more upright. Also it seems odd to put integrated handlebar / stems on an endurance bike. Surely most of us would benefit from the flexibility of an independent stem and handlebar to tune in position and comfort.
Just got back into cycling (stopped in 1990). Major factor was because I heard how comfortable the Trek Domane was etc. No way I was coming back to a race bike geometry. I want comfort and value not straining my back etc. Some of us just want to ride for enjoyment and health. Not planning on entering races.
Giant defy, Specialized Roubaix-great examples of endurance bikes that loose 80% off their resale value in a heart beat-not recommended😢
Great advice thank you!
The latest dropped rear stays in relation to where it meets the seat-tube, give flex/suspension already - if it’s say a third of the way down the down tube, it gives about 0.5 to 1 degree flex which is about 2.5-3mm at the rear axle (55cm frame).
Given that's true, you don't need those carbon wheels then, and could be just as happy on bike that costs 1/2 that like my carbon synapse - Nice looking bike though!
5:47 Ouch, that rust! You should look into chain lubes and waxes. 🙂
Its very hard to get a low head tube aggressive frame even as spec now. Finding a 56cm effective top tube bike lower bb sub 70mm and a low stack is not easy outside if a custom build. A head tube length of 165 to 170 on a 56 is common with only a couple i can think of tbh.
Thanks for good tip to choose bike. ❤
Willier make beautiful looking bikes love it.
A more comfortable bike will let you ride longer and more often, which will make you stronger and fitter. Being fitter is going to make you faster than any marginal aero gains ever could.
Girvin Flex-Stem making a comeback, I'm holding out!
so 10 years ago a 23mm was considered a wider tyre? maybe when indurain was racing 21's you could say that, but 10 years ago aero bikes were already a thing and the last 5 years those aerobikes are used in paris roubaix. i think we are forgetting that it always was an endurance sport and these bikes are making you sit longer in the saddle as we drift away from the efficiency towards comfort. the endurance model is neither here nor there and geometry is negated by offering less sizes and non adjustable cockpits. just an opinion of course. peace
Any chance of reviewing the cube agree or wilier garda??
Nice gravel bike.
I disagree with the basic assumption of this video. Around here (Switzerland), I would estimate that at least 90% of sportive amateurs do not have aero positions or anything aero. For this reason, they require something like 50 supplementary Watts to go 40kph on flat ground, and any kind of group ride is frustratingly slow on flat ground, I'm rarely above 150W when drafting. So if you're consistently riding over 30kph on flat ground, you should definitely be considering aero.
The Wilier there is $12,786, not very attainable for the average person!
How would a trek Emonda ALR 5 (2023) be? - with the stock 28 tires, or with GP5000 28’s? Or GP5000 25’s?
Or the trek Domane AL5 etc.?
Front tire on backwards m8
Any suggestions on a good endurance aluminum bike?
David please. What is the difference between a caad 13 and a synapse aluminium. Thank you
synapse has a more relaxed endurance geometry, and the caad series is more like an aluminium version of the supersix.
Thank you
If you are a ‘normal’ person with normal fitness I would argue even that bike is too aggressive. Certainly if you are in your thirties and later and new to cycling. And flexibility needs to be considered. Cannot touch your toes? You might struggle on any modern road bikes without some serious alterations. I would consider a hybrid or mountain bike.
I can’t touch my toes 😪
I would say the best geometry is the one you can ride without spacers under the stem. Endurance /gravel frames are better suited for most people unless you prefer a flat bar. Still, head tubes and reaches vary a lot across gravel and endurance frames.
I have an endurance/gravel bike. Now I’m looking at an additional race bike.
I ride bikes for exploring nature,new locations,adventure travel,touring,not just fitness
Still want a gravel bike. Being slower doesn't matter because I ride solo.
Last week you were telling us gravel bikes are the perfect bike🙄
Depends on what you want to do with them
this bike looks a bit like an oxymoron. Made for endurance, where you probably don't care too much about being aero...but then you have a one piece bar and stem and it's all internally routed! Have fun adjusting your position. It simply does not make any sense. But I agree on the concept of using an endurance road bike.
Be careful, David. You’ll soon find yourself recommending gravel bikes with their relaxed geometry, passive suspension elements, low gears ratios
At 6:07 you’re talking about the benefits of low gearing while passing a guy walking his red Wilier up the very steep hill. Hard to tell but is it the exact same bike you are using as the example? 😀
I wondered if anybody would notice that! I think the other Wilier was a different model, not sure which one though. It highlights my point about having suitable gears for the riding you do though
True. I have an endurance bike and loving the fact I get to use the whole gear range more often, compared to the older 53-39 standard ring and 11-28 cluster.
is it possible for an endurance RB to have a dropper post for additional comfort?
28 32mm tyres still too thin 36mm are best if you can fit them
Didn’t you do a video on the trek domane recently saying endurance bikes were pointless?
I asked the question of whether endurance bikes still have a future, I didn’t declare them pointless. It’s part of an ongoing conversation around the evolution of bike design and matching riders to the best option
I'm 51 and I use my bike to get me about and doing bunny hops.
Personally I wouldn't call any bike with drop handle bars a comfortable bike , Personally if you want a bike for long rides & can go anywhere I'd have at least 2.25" tyres with a Jones handle bar .I really can't see it he point in this bike if you're not going for records .
How comfortable are you on the drops on an endurance bike vs a road, since a shorter reach would mean your back might be a bit more bent on an endurance than a road bike?
EDIT: do you feel like you would be falling over' compared to a road bike ?
When I first started riding, I rode an aero bike (Merida Reacto) but hated the vibrations and the position.
After that, I swapped to an endurance bike - 2022 Cervélo Caledonia 5 SRAM Rival eTap AXS - for more comfort. I loved the comfort on the flats but it was terribly heavy on the climbs with the 32mm DT Swiss E1800 Spline Aluminium Wheelset and SRAM Rival eTap AXS Groupset. It wasn't aero or light. It never suited me. It felt slower than present day aero bikes and even lightweight bikes over the climbs. So I sold the bike.
Now, I'm riding a Specialized Aethos which somehow soaked up bumps better and is so much more reactive and lighter. Specialized really built the Aethos for the general public who don't do UCI races. After two bike fits and testing different sizes, it was a no brainer. One of the test bikes having an aluminium DT Swiss R470 Wheelset with SRAM Rival eTap AXS Groupset as well but felt so much different from the Cervélo Caledonia 5.
I guess that's also why Cervélo ditched the Caledonia 5 endurance bike for the all-rounder Soloist at Paris Roubaix.
Endurance bikes are great for comfort but my personal take is that in order to get even remotely near modern day lightweight or aero bikes like the Aethos or SL7, one would have to go up in spec to Ultegra/Force or Dura-ace/Red.
28c is nice and all but what about us rim brake riders? Do they still fit?
They sure do, as long as your frameset isn't too old as 23 mm was the norm before the 2010s.
@@yonglingng5640 yea ifk I got a 2009 giant defy. I got to borrow someone's 28c tires and see.
I had 28mm w/rims on my entry road bike from 2018.
Yep, I had 28s on a Giant Defy
@@grahamriley8124 what year?