I really enjoyed Aviendha’s visit to Rhuidean, but you’re right-the first one was master class writing. For many readers, Rand’s visit to the Way Back ter’angreal is the most impactful pair of chapters in the entire series, especially on a re-read.
Rand's visit to Rhuidean was more impactful for me personally. I was blown away how Robert Jordan chose to give us the history of the Aiel. Where other authors would have given us a big exposition dump, Jordan shows us the past through multiple peoples eyes. I thought it was mind blowing when I first read it, and I think it's part of what makes this series special. About Moridin rescuing Lanfear, the way I interpreted that was that Moridin had to pay something for Lanfear, similar to how Mat had to give up something to get Moraine. What did Moridin give up, I have no idea. You might be right, but those were my thoughts when reading.
I don’t think he rescued her. He just killed her while is why she’s brought back as Cyndane. I also assumed he has knowledge and possibly the use of the true power that makes it easier to travel there and back
Im curious about about how you viewed the black tower. It may not have been this way but turning is mentioned once in the first book or some early book. You kind of forget about it. It seems like it would have been different to learn of that at that moment. When I started this series there were 5 books out. I reread the series every time a new book came out so I was pretty familiar with this idea by the time a memory of light came out. It may not have made a difference at all. The whole idea still creeps me out. I’m going to keep my head canon that once the dark one is completely sealed away they die. I’m also curious about how excited you were for a memory of light. You mentioned it kind of. I had been reading g this series for almost 20 yrs at that point. I had been through the time when the books took a few years to come out and then when we’d never get the ending. So to finally get it was crazy. Normally I’d reread the series before a new book. However that time I reread gathering storm and towers. So I was able to put it off for a few days. Other than work I read almost nonstop from the end to finish towers through memory. I couldn’t sleep. I probably slept a few hours because my body forced me to. I finished it in 3 days
@@conorreads yeah. The reason I say they die is the way they’re described. Like there’s no soul. I saw it as basically using the dark one’s power to kill the soul but save the body. So once the dark ones power is no longer available, the body dies
1) We read the first dark prophecy at the start of Book 2 :) „Daughter of the Night, she walks again. The ancient war, she yet fights. Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still. …“ 2) About the Daughter of the Night. Lanfear is already back since a couple of books, but I dont get if you have found it out. So before you read the next book, maybe you reread the clensing of Saidin … she was there :) 3) I can’t say if Rands or Aviendahs visit in Rhuidesn was better, beause both where great! 4) In book one in Baerlon Min told Moiraine she would marry Tom. It was hinted a couple times over the books :)
Aha there is way to much to remember in this series! Thankyou for the additions. Yeah they clarified that Cyndane is lanfear in the first chapter of AMOL
I must admit, the first visit (Rand) was so foggy in my memory, and I was rushing through the books then, while I only had towers of midnight when it came out. So I have muxh clearer memories of it. So, Aviendha's revelations and the hope that she can still do something about the future of the Aiel had me tight. I kept thinking about possibilities how she could achieve her goal.
The first visit was the best for me. Coming to understand the history for the first time was just awesome even compared to the implications of what Aviednha sees. But also because of everything that went down with Rand and Mat together. I think some of Rand and Mats truest interactions are in that book. Like I have said before it will be fun looking back and see which specific predictions have been hits and misses. There are things that line up with rereads and there are things that definitely seem to come out of nowhere. But I do agree that some things leave more questions than I had going in but a world this massive would never be able to tie up every single little thing. There are some questions only Jordan knew the answer to and I feel he would never have explained everything even if finished out the series and were still alive.
@conorreads One side effect of the length of the series that applies to most save the fastest of readers is that the time between reading book 4 and 13 for example in real world reading time really helps to make it feel like time has passed in the world of the series/monumental experiences come and gone for the characters.
Another enjoyable video. It's kind of sad that you'll soon record your last WoT video. I thought long, and I can't decide which Rhuidean visit had a bigger impact on me. The one with Rand makes WoT a piece of SciFi set in the far future of our earth, which is mind-boggling. The one with Aviendha makes it clear that winning the last battle isn't the end of all problems, which is food for thought: Even if this particular future will be avoided somehow, it doesn't guarantee that the Aiel will survive as a people. At least that's my interpretation. So unless the Aiel all die in AMoL already, or it covers the next 500 years, the book will end in a cliff hanger.
I know! I think my relationship with WOT won’t end! Both great points, I never considered that WOT could be our world, where is all the magic right now though?
@@conorreads The hints are very early, eg in The Eye of the World Thom Merrillin wonders whether 'Mosk and Merk were really giants that fought with spears of fire'. This is generally considered to mean Moscow, America, and ICBMs. He also mentions 'Elsbet, queen of all' aka Queen Elizabeth II, and 'Materese, the healer' aka Mother Teresa. All from stories from the first age, that he knows as a gleeman. WoT takes place in the third age, so I guess magic must appear in the second age. In book 4 Nyneave sees a Mercedes-Benz star in the natural history museum in Tanchico before she fights with Moghedien. As you know, memory becomes legend and legend fades to myth. Naturally, all these hints were completely lost on me on my first read.
Great question, i think i would have to choose Rand's go at Rhuidean because you are still freshish to WoT at that point and everything is such a mystery.
I like both, but slightly prefer the first visit. Maybe exactly because it was expected, or because there was much more involved. Rand, Mat and Moiraine all went even though we never hear about Moiraines story. We just know she went through the Ter-Angreal as well and eventually what she learned in there. Looking forward to hear about your "Memory of light" experience :)
Yeah I liked the first one a little better also, it gave so much depth to why the Aiel are so strange in custom and attitude! The fact we met the Aiel first and found them hard to understand and strange was such a cool way to tell the story. Both awesome though.
I think aviendha's was more impactfull just because when rand went in, i was so fresh to the story and had a lot of questions and was like "oh ok then" and the second time was a like after all this you still don't know this world and was nice to be surprised so late in the series
thats a great question man - I've never considered it before!! So............................................... shit I dunno!!!!!!!!!!! I think the first time i read Rands trip back in time I was very young, and it didnt really land in my brain properly, whereas Avi's trip forwards blew my mind first time read as I was like a man instead of a boy - so I think Avis will always stick out in my mind for this reason. But, if i think about which one is better on this current re-read, I would say Rands lol. So I would say i PREFER Avis because of the place it holds in my heart.
Another good prediction! I guess i very much skipped over the visions on my first listen and only paid more attention later on. They provide a lot of meaning to the world and the aiel in particular As my last re-listens started somewhere halfway i have a more lively memory of the future visions. Understanding these future visions makes one chapter in the next book much more interesting, well even more interesting ... Cant say much more. I do like the references to technology from our world. It sparks the visual imagination. It's also more political then the visions of the past. Or to play with words: "Those future visions feel much more historical" P.S. Is Verin really to blame here? Mat being Mat is the problem.. Question for you to ponder. Could Olver be taveren?
Olver could be Tavaren, but can’t aes Sedai see who is Tavaren and who isn’t…. And he has hung around with quite a few of them. Maybe they can’t see it until they are older though. Aha another comment that gets me excited to read on
I liked Aviendah’s trip to the future because it showed possible outcomes after the last battle. It seemed like the Seanchan could become an even bigger problem, for the Aiel at least, in the future. I loved them both. That sucks having to wait on the book to come. I had the last book ready to go in advance and I’m enjoying the long prologue lol. My question to you Conor is did you watch that awful Wheel of Time show and if so how did you like it?
I just got it yesterday! I watched the first couple of episodes, I may return to it at some point. It wasn’t very absorbing if I’m honest. Obviously no series adaptation will be exactly what you want it to be, but even with that in mind I just wasnt very entertained. I thought it could’ve been grittier and darker (maybe it will go in that direction). So yeah not impressed overall but I don’t really care because I have the books to read rn lol
Both visits are impactful, but personally the first was a little more polished for me. As for the shipping of the blue lady and the gleeman, there are hints very early in the series, but think of it the way Min does about Rand, once she sees the vision its going to happen, there is no sense in fighting it.
I think Aviendha's trip was better because the truths the Aiel see in the Ter'Angreal drive a lot of them to suicide, but i think that is because it is very counter cultural to the way they are brought up. Rand wasn't raised in that culture so he wasn't really at risk when he went in to them, mind you we don't know that until halfway through his trip in there when he sees the potential Shaido chief has ripped out his eyes. Aviendha on the other hand was raised in that culture, and while she had been through the rings once to see the past, that future would most likely have been just as hard for her as the Aiel past was for Aiel men.
All the women misjudge Mat right to the end. Lanfear was killed and transferred to a new body(Cyndane It means last chance). Personally I enjoyed Rand's trip through the past more than Aviendha's future sight that was practically a horror story really, mostly because of the glimpse of life before and at the beginning the Breaking.
I’m happy for you Conor. Your enjoyment is palpable… which makes what I feel about this book… pretty much all 3 WOT books written by Sanderson easier to bear thinking about. I don’t agree with any of your judgements, but just listening to you talk about this book throughout was an emotional balm. For me, this book is a poorly written, terribly edited, cratered wasteland of underwhelming conclusions to either crappy storylines or eagerly anticipated developments. Worst of all was the Tower of Genjei. I’ve read Primary School process writing that was more polished and with more satisfying denouement. I’d call it juvenile, but I don’t think it even reaches that level tbh. Rand’s Zen Completion early on was promising, but ultimately wasted on the messy strands Jordan’s unnecessary obtuseness left for Sanderson to tie up. The Black Tower resolutions fall victim to Jordan’s mean spirited retcon which basically trashed the very style that had formed the spine of what gave the early WoT books so much unique storytelling Body. Normally, if I’m forced to analyse this book, I would vehemently declare I hate it with the heat of a thousand Suns. But to my absolute shock, your enjoyment has emotionally won me over so completely, that I’m basically prepared to accept that it worked for you and move on. There was a time I’d have taken great pleasure in tearing this book to shreds, but that’s not necessary here. Given all that, I suppose it’s obvious what my answer to your question is. And while YES, I prefer Rand’s visit to the Columns of Rhuidean, that little bit of storytelling is one of Sanderson’s rare Hits, a bullseye even, where his version of the WoT authorial voice is pure & clear. It didn’t happen often enough, but thankfully, sometimes, it DID happen! Cheers Conor. I hope you keep finding that fantastic sense of enjoyment all the way to the end mate. -g
I appreciate the time you took to watch and comment! I’m glad to have entertained! Yeah Sandersons pace definitely takes changes everything, the way he reveals information is much more direct and simplistic. Tower of ghenjei was so heavily anticipated that I would’ve been hooked regardless of what was written, it had such a Different set up to any other big scene I felt! It wasn’t mysterious, or enchanting in the same way Jordan would’ve made it so, but it was very fun! Thanks for watching bro
The first visit for sure for me. The writing was so amazing and the feeling when you realize what’s happening the first time is hard to replicate
Yeah it was confusing at first and then as you realized it was amazing
I really enjoyed Aviendha’s visit to Rhuidean, but you’re right-the first one was master class writing. For many readers, Rand’s visit to the Way Back ter’angreal is the most impactful pair of chapters in the entire series, especially on a re-read.
Yeah it blew my mind when I read that
Rand's visit to Rhuidean was more impactful for me personally. I was blown away how Robert Jordan chose to give us the history of the Aiel. Where other authors would have given us a big exposition dump, Jordan shows us the past through multiple peoples eyes. I thought it was mind blowing when I first read it, and I think it's part of what makes this series special.
About Moridin rescuing Lanfear, the way I interpreted that was that Moridin had to pay something for Lanfear, similar to how Mat had to give up something to get Moraine. What did Moridin give up, I have no idea. You might be right, but those were my thoughts when reading.
Yeah it would be interesting to know what he gave up if that’s the case.
Such an amazing way to tell history! Brilliant both times
I don’t think he rescued her. He just killed her while is why she’s brought back as Cyndane. I also assumed he has knowledge and possibly the use of the true power that makes it easier to travel there and back
Yay, you’ve met my namesake in the books😂
I have indeed! Very cool weapon!
Im curious about about how you viewed the black tower. It may not have been this way but turning is mentioned once in the first book or some early book. You kind of forget about it. It seems like it would have been different to learn of that at that moment. When I started this series there were 5 books out. I reread the series every time a new book came out so I was pretty familiar with this idea by the time a memory of light came out. It may not have made a difference at all. The whole idea still creeps me out. I’m going to keep my head canon that once the dark one is completely sealed away they die.
I’m also curious about how excited you were for a memory of light. You mentioned it kind of. I had been reading g this series for almost 20 yrs at that point. I had been through the time when the books took a few years to come out and then when we’d never get the ending. So to finally get it was crazy. Normally I’d reread the series before a new book. However that time I reread gathering storm and towers. So I was able to put it off for a few days. Other than work I read almost nonstop from the end to finish towers through memory. I couldn’t sleep. I probably slept a few hours because my body forced me to. I finished it in 3 days
Turning is for sure a scary concept, but if you can turn one way surely they can the turned back no?
@@conorreads yeah. The reason I say they die is the way they’re described. Like there’s no soul. I saw it as basically using the dark one’s power to kill the soul but save the body. So once the dark ones power is no longer available, the body dies
Also, I'm kind of sad you are finishing the series, though I am excited for you to see the culmination of it all.
Yeah every time I pick up the final book (I have it now) I am so expectant of big things.
1) We read the first dark prophecy at the start of Book 2 :)
„Daughter of the Night, she walks again.
The ancient war, she yet fights.
Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.
…“
2) About the Daughter of the Night. Lanfear is already back since a couple of books, but I dont get if you have found it out. So before you read the next book, maybe you reread the clensing of Saidin … she was there :)
3) I can’t say if Rands or Aviendahs visit in Rhuidesn was better, beause both where great!
4) In book one in Baerlon Min told Moiraine she would marry Tom. It was hinted a couple times over the books :)
Aha there is way to much to remember in this series! Thankyou for the additions.
Yeah they clarified that Cyndane is lanfear in the first chapter of AMOL
I must admit, the first visit (Rand) was so foggy in my memory, and I was rushing through the books then, while I only had towers of midnight when it came out. So I have muxh clearer memories of it. So, Aviendha's revelations and the hope that she can still do something about the future of the Aiel had me tight. I kept thinking about possibilities how she could achieve her goal.
Yeah the fact it seems negotiable still makes a difference
Anothe great video mate. The history of the Aeil blew me away more than the posssible future of the Aeil.
Same bro, both awesome scenes though
The first visit was the best for me. Coming to understand the history for the first time was just awesome even compared to the implications of what Aviednha sees. But also because of everything that went down with Rand and Mat together. I think some of Rand and Mats truest interactions are in that book.
Like I have said before it will be fun looking back and see which specific predictions have been hits and misses. There are things that line up with rereads and there are things that definitely seem to come out of nowhere. But I do agree that some things leave more questions than I had going in but a world this massive would never be able to tie up every single little thing. There are some questions only Jordan knew the answer to and I feel he would never have explained everything even if finished out the series and were still alive.
It was a really tight know team over there in Rhuidean, they were heading into something so unknown and different!
Feels so long ago now
@conorreads One side effect of the length of the series that applies to most save the fastest of readers is that the time between reading book 4 and 13 for example in real world reading time really helps to make it feel like time has passed in the world of the series/monumental experiences come and gone for the characters.
@@raea29 yeah very true!
Book 4 will forever be my favourite specifically because of the sequence in the glass columns. Theres nothing like it
With him chasing down and overtaking the prospective clan leader! Yeah I agree it was awesome
Another enjoyable video. It's kind of sad that you'll soon record your last WoT video.
I thought long, and I can't decide which Rhuidean visit had a bigger impact on me. The one with Rand makes WoT a piece of SciFi set in the far future of our earth, which is mind-boggling. The one with Aviendha makes it clear that winning the last battle isn't the end of all problems, which is food for thought: Even if this particular future will be avoided somehow, it doesn't guarantee that the Aiel will survive as a people. At least that's my interpretation. So unless the Aiel all die in AMoL already, or it covers the next 500 years, the book will end in a cliff hanger.
I know! I think my relationship with WOT won’t end!
Both great points, I never considered that WOT could be our world, where is all the magic right now though?
@@conorreads The hints are very early, eg in The Eye of the World Thom Merrillin wonders whether 'Mosk and Merk were really giants that fought with spears of fire'. This is generally considered to mean Moscow, America, and ICBMs. He also mentions 'Elsbet, queen of all' aka Queen Elizabeth II, and 'Materese, the healer' aka Mother Teresa. All from stories from the first age, that he knows as a gleeman. WoT takes place in the third age, so I guess magic must appear in the second age.
In book 4 Nyneave sees a Mercedes-Benz star in the natural history museum in Tanchico before she fights with Moghedien.
As you know, memory becomes legend and legend fades to myth.
Naturally, all these hints were completely lost on me on my first read.
@@1m1s damn you just blew my mind. That’s insane!
Great question, i think i would have to choose Rand's go at Rhuidean because you are still freshish to WoT at that point and everything is such a mystery.
I agree
I like both, but slightly prefer the first visit. Maybe exactly because it was expected, or because there was much more involved. Rand, Mat and Moiraine all went even though we never hear about Moiraines story. We just know she went through the Ter-Angreal as well and eventually what she learned in there.
Looking forward to hear about your "Memory of light" experience :)
Yeah I liked the first one a little better also, it gave so much depth to why the Aiel are so strange in custom and attitude!
The fact we met the Aiel first and found them hard to understand and strange was such a cool way to tell the story.
Both awesome though.
I think aviendha's was more impactfull just because when rand went in, i was so fresh to the story and had a lot of questions and was like "oh ok then" and the second time was a like after all this you still don't know this world and was nice to be surprised so late in the series
I feel like the fact that it’s a warning (I hope) not set in stone like the past (again, I hope) impacts the story a lot more.
But both are awesome
thats a great question man - I've never considered it before!! So............................................... shit I dunno!!!!!!!!!!! I think the first time i read Rands trip back in time I was very young, and it didnt really land in my brain properly, whereas Avi's trip forwards blew my mind first time read as I was like a man instead of a boy - so I think Avis will always stick out in my mind for this reason. But, if i think about which one is better on this current re-read, I would say Rands lol. So I would say i PREFER Avis because of the place it holds in my heart.
Yeah man how old you are and where you are in life can make such a big difference to your perspective when reading things! Good answer!
If I had to pick between Rhudien visits, I'd probably go with Rand's. The idea of cataclysm and the loss of high technology is fascinating to me.
Yeah they were both crazy, I was completely absorbed
Another good prediction!
I guess i very much skipped over the visions on my first listen and only paid more attention later on. They provide a lot of meaning to the world and the aiel in particular As my last re-listens started somewhere halfway i have a more lively memory of the future visions. Understanding these future visions makes one chapter in the next book much more interesting, well even more interesting ... Cant say much more. I do like the references to technology from our world. It sparks the visual imagination. It's also more political then the visions of the past. Or to play with words: "Those future visions feel much more historical"
P.S. Is Verin really to blame here? Mat being Mat is the problem.. Question for you to ponder. Could Olver be taveren?
Olver could be Tavaren, but can’t aes Sedai see who is Tavaren and who isn’t…. And he has hung around with quite a few of them. Maybe they can’t see it until they are older though.
Aha another comment that gets me excited to read on
Great thumbnail 😂
Thanks bro 😂 it’s always strange making a thumbnail of your own face (especially as I’ve only got like 7 facial expressions max)
@@conorreads 🤣🤣🤣
Rand and the tinkers for me I think, but they were both good
I liked Aviendah’s trip to the future because it showed possible outcomes after the last battle. It seemed like the Seanchan could become an even bigger problem, for the Aiel at least, in the future. I loved them both.
That sucks having to wait on the book to come. I had the last book ready to go in advance and I’m enjoying the long prologue lol. My question to you Conor is did you watch that awful Wheel of Time show and if so how did you like it?
I just got it yesterday!
I watched the first couple of episodes, I may return to it at some point. It wasn’t very absorbing if I’m honest.
Obviously no series adaptation will be exactly what you want it to be, but even with that in mind I just wasnt very entertained. I thought it could’ve been grittier and darker (maybe it will go in that direction).
So yeah not impressed overall but I don’t really care because I have the books to read rn lol
🤔well, I thought the Aviendha's was more of a shock but I enjoyed Rand's far more. Her's was way too sad. 🖖😎👍
Reads had some very sad scenes also! But yes the future one is desperate on a whole new level
Both visits are impactful, but personally the first was a little more polished for me. As for the shipping of the blue lady and the gleeman, there are hints very early in the series, but think of it the way Min does about Rand, once she sees the vision its going to happen, there is no sense in fighting it.
Yeah very true, min knows all
Lets gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
let's gooooooooooooo... 😎
Let’s gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I think Aviendha's trip was better because the truths the Aiel see in the Ter'Angreal drive a lot of them to suicide, but i think that is because it is very counter cultural to the way they are brought up. Rand wasn't raised in that culture so he wasn't really at risk when he went in to them, mind you we don't know that until halfway through his trip in there when he sees the potential Shaido chief has ripped out his eyes. Aviendha on the other hand was raised in that culture, and while she had been through the rings once to see the past, that future would most likely have been just as hard for her as the Aiel past was for Aiel men.
That’s a really good point that I hadn’t thought off
All the women misjudge Mat right to the end. Lanfear was killed and transferred to a new body(Cyndane It means last chance). Personally I enjoyed Rand's trip through the past more than Aviendha's future sight that was practically a horror story really, mostly because of the glimpse of life before and at the beginning the Breaking.
Yeah that is a very cool part of the Rhuidean journey.
Yes Cyndane was clarified for me in the first chapter of the final book (I got it yesterday!)
I’m happy for you Conor. Your enjoyment is palpable… which makes what I feel about this book… pretty much all 3 WOT books written by Sanderson easier to bear thinking about.
I don’t agree with any of your judgements, but just listening to you talk about this book throughout was an emotional balm.
For me, this book is a poorly written, terribly edited, cratered wasteland of underwhelming conclusions to either crappy storylines or eagerly anticipated developments.
Worst of all was the Tower of Genjei.
I’ve read Primary School process writing that was more polished and with more satisfying denouement. I’d call it juvenile, but I don’t think it even reaches that level tbh.
Rand’s Zen Completion early on was promising, but ultimately wasted on the messy strands Jordan’s unnecessary obtuseness left for Sanderson to tie up.
The Black Tower resolutions fall victim to Jordan’s mean spirited retcon which basically trashed the very style that had formed the spine of what gave the early WoT books so much unique storytelling Body.
Normally, if I’m forced to analyse this book, I would vehemently declare I hate it with the heat of a thousand Suns.
But to my absolute shock, your enjoyment has emotionally won me over so completely, that I’m basically prepared to accept that it worked for you and move on.
There was a time I’d have taken great pleasure in tearing this book to shreds, but that’s not necessary here.
Given all that, I suppose it’s obvious what my answer to your question is. And while YES, I prefer Rand’s visit to the Columns of Rhuidean, that little bit of storytelling is one of Sanderson’s rare Hits, a bullseye even, where his version of the WoT authorial voice is pure & clear.
It didn’t happen often enough, but thankfully, sometimes, it DID happen!
Cheers Conor.
I hope you keep finding that fantastic sense of enjoyment all the way to the end mate.
-g
I appreciate the time you took to watch and comment! I’m glad to have entertained!
Yeah Sandersons pace definitely takes changes everything, the way he reveals information is much more direct and simplistic.
Tower of ghenjei was so heavily anticipated that I would’ve been hooked regardless of what was written, it had such a Different set up to any other big scene I felt! It wasn’t mysterious, or enchanting in the same way Jordan would’ve made it so, but it was very fun!
Thanks for watching bro