The neatest "spoiler-free" incident I've had in a long time was when I found out my mother-in-law had never seen Empire Strikes Back and didn't know the twist. I got to see her reaction in real time. (For the record, her reaction was, "He's got to be lying, right?")
I'm with Brandon on that one. People have told me enough that I know or can conclude what's gonna happen and it's so long I don't really have time to get into it and have it be over in a timely manner and having tried a few episodes I wasn't hooked. A few years ago I did have some free time and I though now is when I'm gonna get into Avatar. I made it as far as 12 episodes, after which I didn't care for any of the character, found several fan favorites utterly annoying and over all found the series too childish. Like, it wasn't bad for a kids animated show and I can understand that people who watched it as children overlook certain aspects of it due to nostalgia, like I do with Digimon for example, but I felt the massive following of adult fans who got into it as adults was unwarranted and felt a bit cheated out of £50 (it wasn't on any streaming service I could access and I don't deal with piracy so I had to buy the boxset and import it from the UK to where I live in order to get the original English audio rather than a dub). People kept telling me it got better and that the first season was the weakest and I should just power through, but I just didn't have any interest in continuing.
This spoiler conversation is on point. I am currently reading "I am not a serial killer" And I am anticipating this supernatural killer so hard thanks to dan constantly bringing it up. haha
I believe Avatar is an amazing show, even if you know the plot. I love the character development and magic system. It is a show I would happily watch again (I have watched it 3 times). Highly recommended by me, but it doesn’t stop me from loving your books. I also love this podcast, it makes my workdays a million times better every Wednesday. Thank you both, you guys are great!
Yeah Avatar really is just fantastic. I sincerely believe it is one of, if not the single greatest pieces of film or television ever created. It just has such fine expert craft in all aspects. Character arcs, voice acting, dialogue, world building, music, visuals. It's all just so well done. It tells a great story, if not a particularly complex one, but it weaves in such important and meaningful themes in surprisingly nuanced ways. I cannot give Avatar: The Last Airbender _enough_ praise to do it justice. (Now, the Shamalan film adaptation, on the other hand…)
@@JimCullen Honestly, kind of surprised that Sanderson won't give it a go even if he knows the ending considering 'Journey before destination' but there you go.
I don't think I can really get attached to the characters as what they are in the begining since I already know what they'll become by the end. See, I'm a very gullible person - I, for instance, didn't know who was gonna be the main villain in _Thor_ before it was explicitly shown - and even the most obvious developments have me stick with a hope and/or fear that it'll go some other way. But if I know it from hindsight, there's not even the slightest chance left for that. Also, when watching and figuring the upcoming character or story arcs myself, I could at least feel superiority for how very clever I was outsmarting a childrens' cartoon. With spoilers, I don't have even that.
I think there's two kinds of enjoyment when watching media. The first is the blind discovery... and the second is piecing out how it was done. I don't doubt that being spoiled makes it a more enjoyable experience for some people... but it also robs them of the first time enjoyment. Without spoiler I can watch a movie for the first time... then watch it again later. I also think there's something with cognitive load. As in consuming something for the first time requires greater concentration to piece things together. And if you know what's gonna happen, it makes it easier. One example for me is The Way of Kings. First time reading I wasn't understanding anything... I was reading but not fully processing. It wasn't until Chapter 2 with Kaladin in the slave wagon that things settled down and I started to comprehend the book, since the setting was familiar. Only after finishing the book that I was able to go back to the 475 prologues and was actually read them and process what was happening.
The thing about spoilers is that often time you are presented with information out of context and in an uncontrolled way that could give an incomplete or wrong impression of a work. It's one thing to receive knowledge of the story from the work itself, with all the build-up, context, and connective tissue a story has, and another to read a bullet point list on reddit where people are getting angry about contextless details. Personally, I want that discovery of the first time through a story AND the revisit with full context. With spoilers, your discovery of a story can be completely taken away and you are only left with the 2nd type of experience.
I mostly agree, but I'd argue that the discovery isn't completely taken away. When you have certain details spoiled, it changes your first viewing (or reading) but it doesn't immediately jump you to your second viewing. You'll still be experiencing most of the story for the first time, you'll just do so with some advanced knowledge instead of being completely blind. So yes, you do lose a certain kind of experience when something is spoiled for you, but you still get something else in its place. I think personal mentality regarding spoilers plays a bigger role than the actual effect of the information. I'm lucky enough that I'm not terribly affected by spoilers, but for people that are very sensitive to them, it can ruin their experience before they even see the story because they're upset at losing that blind viewing you're talking about. That's why I generally don't spoil details about a story even if I think the details wouldn't ultimately detract from the experience. It's better to be safe and not say anything, unless you know the person you're talking to well enough that you'll know if they're bothered by the spoiler.
I was told the basics of Hoid (that he was a world hopper who showed up in other cosmere books) before I started my first cosmere book, and it massively increased my engagement and thus my enjoyment
Interesting to hear how writers can pick apart a movie's plot and setup, from the perspective of a story-creater themselves. For us muggles there are always times the movie hits us over the head (hence, TV Tropes), but that nuanced superpower is cool!
A movie I appreciated more the second time around was A Knights Tale. First time around, the constant anachronistic motifs distracted me so much I couldn't appreciate it for what it was. Now, I am able to see past that one oddity, and am genuinely fond of the characters, and I am touched so deeply by a few scenes in it, despite it being light fare comedy. Firstly, when his father realises the sacrifice he made worked out for his son exactly how he had hoped, and secondly, how the protagonists friends stand up for him at his lowest point (including the king in waiting).
I love spoilers. Most of the stuff I read or watch is because I sought out a spoiler that made me interested in learning the context for it, or even just in seeing it executed. Part of that might be that not a lot of people are good at selling what makes something worth reading/watching *without* spoiling it (especially if that's not their job), but still.
I think the name of the Wind is a really interesting case study. I think the book is basically unspoilable (there are maybe just a few things you can say about it that would make someone's experience worse, and not by much), but more than that, the book actually reveals what's going to happen in the future on its own, and pretty much depends on it. By telling you Kvothe has gone to and expelled from the university, killed kings, saved princess, and so on, it makes feel like someone in the world who already knows the myths about Kvothe and is now coming to get the full and true story. And rather than be disappointed by knowing what's going to happen, you're eager to finally get to all of it.
I think that a part of why spoilers might sometimes increase the enjoyment of something is related to the "gloss of the classics". Everybody knows the story of the classics. When you pick up Dracula by Bram Stoker, you are not going in like "Oh, yeah, I wonder what is this book about!". You have already an idea of what the book is going to be about, you have been spoiled. However, many times, your enjoyment may increase because it is an interesting subversion of the history that you have already formed in your head with those spoilers. Italo Calvino said something on the line of "classics are books which everybody knows but are always different from what you expected in your first reading". I think that spoilers are worse when the story itself is highly reliant on the surprise factor to have an impact. Nothing wrong with that, but of course if you take that out with an spoiler, it is like a flat coca cola, still drinkeable, but not the same. Finally, related to something that you have already commented in Writing Excuses: The difference between saying that there is a bomb under the table and having the tension versus something going boom and dealing with the fall out. When you get spoiled, you are creating that tension. You are starting to see the duplicity of some character, the second meaning of a clue, etc. It is like you are in for the joke or comment.
Only thing spoilers have ever ruined for me are jokes from comedies. I basically believe that if something is good it is going to be good even on rewatch and as you are spoiled on rewatch it basically doesn't matter if you have been spoiled.
Somewhat related, and a pet peeve or just a weird question I obsess about is, why is the whodunnit the dominant form of intrigue for cop shows? Those TV episodes, especially those after 2000 where the mystery is just background noise for the character's relationship development, do not rely on their mystery all that much to function, and given the fact that they're factory produced, the mystery is rarely all that compelling. So why do they use a formula that requires some of the most finely tuned storytelling to work? All this to say, all the Lucifers, castle's , mentalist and why not should use columbo as a model rather than the crime of the orient express in order to provide character focused stories with detectives in it;
One thing that I liked better the second time was The Way of Kings. The first time I read it, there was so much going on that I didn't understand, so I missed a lot of clues. But the second time through, I saw all of those clues, and it was a very cool feeling.
I found that sometimes a spoiler is more likely to make me watch something i wouldn't have otherwise. It piques my curiosity to find out how it gets to that point, how does it happen... But for the things i really care about and look forward to, i absolutely hate spoilers.
For me, it often happens a "spoiler" will convince me that I might actually like the story I would've dismissed otherwise. A good ending is one of if not the most important element in a story for me. Another are characters. If I don't like the characters at the beginning, I probably won't read the book unless I get "spoiled" how those characters become better by the end. And the chances of getting a good ending from a random book are so low, I won't even consider picking a book I know nothing about from an author I'm not absolutely certain will make at least decent endings.
Spot on with Prestige. I watched it not knowing the twist, was absolutely blown away by The Prestige(s) of the movie, and then now get enjoyment everytime i watch it cause i can rediscover new clues and reminicise on how it got past me. If i went in knowing all of that, i feel id just have heard the "its a double" thing and gone Yep, and then sat there as everyone denied it and stalled the obvious. On the other hand, I was fully spoiled for Endgame, but when we were concerned whether it would payoff, having the payoffs spoiled actually allowed me to go in excited to see HOW they did it rather than whether they did it.
@@mussoletart8485 I read the chapter summary on the wiki, me. I pretend that I'm reading a 19th century novel; Chapter Six: In which our heroes meet at last, a secret Horneater princess, a theft of boots And so on. I don't think it's chapter 6, but whatever
Avatar is incredible and you should totally watch it. In fact I got into it during season two because season one Aang was very very 12. I later went back and watched it from the beginning and loved it. I think the reason you could still enjoy it is because it is so character driven, and the bending is just so cool to watch.
Dan's thing about always forgetting one of The Prestige's spoilers because he is so focused on the other one reminds me of how I interacted with the video game Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective. Long before I played it, I read the Wikipedia plot summary, so I knew the key twist. Except I actually mixed two of the twists together and so was wrong. This worked out great because I still saw all of the important clues that I only paid attention to because I knew they hinted at the twist, but still got to be pleasantly surprised at the end. Best of both worlds.
In case anyone is interested, the Ghost Trick spoilers I mixed up are below: The protagonist Sissel is actually a cat, not a human (though he can't remember this) and one of the NPCs is a version of the dog character Missile from the future. My brain combined those two so I thought Sissel was Missile the dog from the future. Thus, I noticed all the hints that he's an animal (like the fact that he can't read) but still got surprised.
There's been a lot of studies done on music and hits, and how familiarity tends to play a fairly significant role in which songs reach the top of the charts. (That is, people will tend to listen to songs on the radio they are already familiar with.) I find I tend to experience the same thing with books/movies/stories, familiarity helps me enjoy things more and get more out of them and sometimes spoilers/hearing a story talked about helps give me an early connection to things and know what to look forward to. Ah, and Avatar. I had a friend who was really into the show (and even read a couple of their fanfictions) years ago, and I think I might have watched maybe the first ten episodes, but didn't really get into it. Years later I saw the series was free on prime and was looking for a show to throw on while working on a project, and it was with Season 2 that I really started to get hooked, and see what people loved so much about the series. Now I've been an obsessive fan who's been following the various media releases for quite a while, but it didn't happen all at once, I enjoyed the series more after listening to other fans' discussion and becoming more familiar with the characters and details of the storyline and lore over time.
With the village, the big twist for me was in the middle. In the trailers, it was representing Joaquin Phoenix as the protagonist. You don't even see Bryce Dallas Howard in the early part of the movie. So when he got taken out and it ended up being her quest, That was a great twist for me.
The Wheel of Time might as well be a study in the spoiler vs. non-spoiler experience. It works great on the first read, but on subsequent reads so many scenes take on additional meaning when you have the proper context to view it through. For example the prologue of Eye of the World and our introduction to Rand mean so much more when you know the connection that is there (although it is intentionally made quite obvious, the ordering still means that first time readers don't get the same experience as if they go back and re-read it even just after having finished the first book).
Book spoilers can, but don't always, increase my enjoyment. Never decreases enjoyment (so far, at least). Any sort of visual media spoilers almost always lowers my enjoyment. My only thought on why is that when reading I am only experiencing the journey and that can't really be spoiled. Any sort of visual media has an additional element where I'm seeing the setting or character expressions and if I know what the result is going to be, seeing those things is less impactful. i.e. knowing person 1 dies before person 2 sees/learns of it means I'm already prepared for person 2's emotional response and I don't get to experience it with them.
i feel like it depends on the spoiler my friends spoiled the way in which the magic system works in mistborn but I would be lying if I said it wasn't one of the things that pulled me into it
Knowing how a narrative is being put together never ended up lessening my enjoyment of a movie, book, or game, I think because I came to think of it pretty early on like a chef appreciating a meal. The nuance and craft involved in preparing the dish is only brought to the fore, allowing the chef to recognize ingredients used, cooking methods chosen or disregarded, pairing choices, etc. A good meal tastes as delectable as ever, and knowledge--from this point of view, at least--only deepens the experience of it.
I have a lot of things that I still enjoyed the second time through, but the only thing that immediately jumps out at me as enjoying it more on a repeat viewing was the start of Altered Carbon. The first episode is so dense, simultaneously introducing you to the crazy setting and also this huge gallery of characters, that the first time I was a bit overwhelmed and missed a lot of stuff, and a repeat viewing made me really go "oh wow, this episode is incredible."
That final line about action scenes being boring? 100% agree! I'm watching them in films/reading them in books for the emotional payout! The good action scenes, particularly in books, do this throughout the fight. In the Stormlight Archive, the arena fight in book 2 is pretty close to perfect for an action scene for me.
I was spoiled on books 1-9 of the Wheel of Time and I still loved it. I did find that I almost "looked forward" to certain events happening. This means that even when it was boring I had something to look forward to. However, I did enjoy the books after book 9 far more than the previous ones due to this.
The most memorable example of enjoying it more the second time for me was with an anime called Tatami Galaxy. The series has a penny drop moment and so when you watch it again you see everything with new eyes.
I enjoyed the Pursuit of Happiness the second time through better because I knew everything would turn out alright. The first time I spent the entire movie super stressed out for Will Smith’s character.
Anecdote on spoilers: I've been playing through the main story of Final Fantasy XIV. It's a good story, but it's very, very long. I would periodically look up the next quest and spoil myself a bit. Seeing the interesting things that were ahead gave me the motivation to continue on. It worked super well.
I know you've said you don't like it, but I feel like you can't mention a story better the second time through without mentioning Fight Club. I love the recontextualization
one of the way you could improve those studies (I'm talking about the convo up to 6:25) is by giving them all a survey of different media (other movies, books etc) and then looking at correlations between people who otherwise agree on quality of similar pieces of media. you need a larger cohort for that though
Some details of the end of Rythm of War were spoiled for me, and at first I was mad because I missed the reveal. But, as I read the book, I just loved watching the book build up to the end, and how much Brandon tries to trick you before the Sanderslide. It was so cool and I did enjoy it better, but now I don't really have a reason to re-read it.
The Prologue to the Stomlight Archive in Way of Kings is like this. First time was utter confusion but this is cool. Second time was "Hey I know who these people are "
I enjoy spoilers as it gives me a much larger hint than previews as to if I want to read or watch the story. I am not saying I want every bit spoiled but I want enough of the story to know and get a feeling from someone how they enjoyed the story. Even when spoiled there is so much more to get out of a good story while a mediocre story just doesn't have that much to begin with.
Having something about an art Explained to you does increase your enjoyment. Since you get more nuisance about the art. Watching the portrait of love made me realize what the true value of art history is.
I can't believe Brandon missed the connection between the topic of spoilers and the Spoiler Q & A's he does every now and then! I mean I missed it too and now have to come back to this video just to mention it, but I think that would've been an interesting example of spoilers that made people enjoy something more as opposed to them learning at the pace the author intended. The fact that a lot of these q&a spoilers are things that Brandon hinted at but maybe didn't explicitly right in a current work probably has an impact on enjoyability. Also because you're not getting spoiled for something that you can access currently in a way I feel like you're not getting spoiled so much as you're just accessing content early.
Hmm, I've never watched/read the Prestige and now I've been spoiled for it. But now I wonder if I watch/read it it will be more interesting now that I already know. That twist definitely made me want to read it though!
Fun fact about 6th sense - it self spoiled by being translated to Polish. Reason is "you" in english can be plural or singular but when you translate you need to pick one and this indicated that only 1 person is in the scene while 2 were on the screen.
I am not a writer in the slightest, but I routinely belt out dialog, verbatim, before it is delivered on screen for shows and movies I haven't seen before. My wife thinks I have a super power.
A recent example of that CinemaScores issue was The Green Knight, which got a C+. If you went expecting a true to see a fantasy action film, or even just a scene by scene adaptation of say Tolkien's version of the story, you are going to be incredibly frustrated by the very A24 arthouse acid trip you got instead.
Regardless if no spoilers in does make it slightly more enjoyable, you can (usually) only experience something without spoilers once, and with spoilers as many times as you like.
Personally, I think The Village is perfect the way it is, its merely a casualty of Shyamalan's reputation at the time. People seem to be hung up on the elements of the plot about the nature of the village, and the thriller elements of the creatures, when all of that is just backdrop to the actual story. Its just setting. The twist isn't even this huge reveal (cue inception sound), its a quiet little scene where it has room to sink in. The film is a love story, a character piece set with a really interesting backdrop that creates stakes almost never seen in a love story. And I love the film because of this.
Bahahahaha! Goblets and yarn amigurumi beasties. Yes, Brandon, you were a GoH at ConQuesT, but that was before a chunk of big staff turnover landed me on the ConComm. I currently head Guest Liaisons, and I'd say I'm sorry you didn't get an official ConQuesT amigurumi, but you've already got a few things kicking around your home and office by me, including a tiny!Vin that I've seen on camera on one of your weekly updates. The goblets happened due to a variety of reasons. Normally we do mugs.
What happens when you know a particular beloved character will die is that you're constantly wondering: "Will it happen now? Oh no, it's happening, is it? Aaah, don't walk through that dark tunnel without a weapon!" And then the movie is almost over, nothing bad happened, you begin to think: "Maybe they were wrong. Maybe he survives! Yes, he survives! They were all liars!!" You relax, then witness a few shady figures meeting on a tower in the dark: "Severus, please."
My brother managed to unspoil a character death for me by lying about it. I used to flip and read the last few pages of a book if I hit a boring part and saw everyone was sad about my favorite character being gone and my brother pretty much said "no, they just got separated" and I believed him. I was both upset and impressed by his duplicity particularly considering it made me grieve over a character death twice.
The movie Million Dollar Baby was one that I wish someone had "spoiled" for me because the actual premise of the film ended up being so wildly different from what I thought that it truly messed with me.
So, funnily enough, I tend to seek out spoilers because I'm generally of the belief that if a story can be truly spoiled then it isn't really worth it anyway because it wouldn't have held up to repeat readings, so by getting the spoiled version I'm either skipping to the more in depth second reading or I'm getting everything I would have gotten from the first reading because it's all just a twist. The only case in which this has backfired on me was Mistborn, which I had had the big Cosmere level plot spoiled for me by my siblings years before and, having aready read the first two books of the Stormlight Archive, I spent way too much time wondering when Ruin and Preservation were gonna show up that it hampered my enjoyment of the series.
Ladyhawke 🙌🏼 I wonder if people who hate spoilers, also enjoy surprises? Perhaps there’s something in the personalities - and those who don’t mind spoilers are also those who like to know what is coming in life? For example, waiting in line for a rollercoaster is terrifying to some people- they hate seeing the horrors that are looming around them as they que. however, other people are more excited looking on at their upcoming encounter with Adrenalin & it almost enhances the experience to know what’s coming. How many people prefer space mountain (being in the dark and not seeing what’s ahead) to a fully exposed rollercoaster? Is anticipation something that ruins, or something that adds to the experience?
The story Brandon described with different siblings telling a story through journal entries sounds exactly like the movie What Happened to Monday, about a family of seven identical twin women who each get one day to go out into the world and one of them disappeared, so the other 6 have to find out what happened to her. It has an extremely sad world premise.
Such an odd thing to remember, but “The Truman Show” being the protagonist’s life filmed wasn’t a spoiler. They show that in the trailer. I had to go back and look to be sure 😅 Oh, and the Rock’s baking movie should be titled either: “The Great Baker’s Pie” or “The Great Baker Spy”
Each season of Avatar TLA is 7-8 hours. If you're committed, you can technically start and finish within a calendar day. I know that's still a huge commitment for some people. But please, if some of you haven't tried it... Give it season 1.
I'm glad they brought up the Village! I had that spoiled to me and I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. Another for me is La La Land. I knew they didn't end up together and was also told to look out for the color themes in the cinematography. I absolutely loved the movie (and still hated the ending but was able to brush it off). But for the most part, I'll try to dodge spoilers still 😇
The first time I watched Howl's Moving Castle I jumped in 15 minutes after it started and was lost the entire time, but was intensely interested in figuring out what was going on and thought it was brilliant. Going back to watch the part I missed only told me what I had spent the entire film trying to understand the first time and made it feel more flat as they basically told everything to vegin with.
(about spoilers: I've written a comment to exactly the same effect two or three weeks ago, maybe more, on a Dusty Wheel podcast! I know many things, but it doesn't tell me how it will all happen! i'm fine with spoilers!- sometimes. And I used "Journey before destination!🍃)
(let's be honest: we very often spoil ourselves, by watching videos or following things on social media we should just wait to check till we can't get spoiled any longer... The last times it happened, I know I mostly did it to myself....)
Well, I wasn't around for the theatrical release for LadyHawke, but if you mean the twist I suppose you mean, it's written in large letters on the DVD cover, at least the one I have. If you turned the case to read the back to see if it was for you, then you already know the "twist" going in, which I did, and I still love that movie
I don't want the movie spoiled for me, I just want to know what to expect. Should I bring tissues, will I be laughing, will I be scared? If I am expecting a laugh and it is really more of a drama with some humor, I'll be disappointed. I love watching the twists unfold and I don't try to figure it out, I just try to be immersed in the experience.
I think it depends a lot on the type of spoils. For example, theRed Wedding, or the "I am your father" are things that if spoiled can destroy the enjoyment. On other hand, I was reading the Malazan book of the fallen and when I finished the 4rth book I just wanted to know one thing.. if Gnaw (Karsa dog) had survived. I read the following 4 books with a single focus.. to reach the point of reunion.. I wanted to read that scene that I spoiled myself (searching in the internet), because that type of emotion is one that spoiling just enhances the time you can experience it..
I greatly encourage people to go into The World's End directed by Edgar Wright without even reading the synopsis (some of the spoil the twist) because it blew my mind when that bathroom scene happens about 45 minutes in. I was getting a little bored with it by that point and was wondering if I shouldn't stop watching and that scene just completely changed my feelings about it. It's one of my favorite movies and has plenty to notice on repeated viewings
Momento is a film you basically need to watch twice. Fifth Sense is one that may fit in that category. Most movies it is the other way though, especially with most twists. Very interesting question though.
The thing is fighting scenes that are there just for filling a "action" checklist are dumb. Fights that matter, for a reason that matter, those are different.
It's the same for me. I could never finish John Wick because it was an un-ending sequence of a guy killing guys that I knew how it was going to end before it even begun.
@Producer Adam, Dan also spoils Usual Suspects right at the beginning of the video (it's perhaps the kind of spoiler you wouldn't notice unless you already watched the film, but still) 3:15
Also I agree about the Village- the twist was just not signposted at all and it ruined my enjoyment of the film. However I still really like Signs despite the fact that the twist is nonsensical and undermines the tension.
I have not listened to this episode yet, but I'm excited! I really like this spoilers topic, not many people talks about this, I'm VERY careful with not getting my favorite stuff spoiled so I will like to hear your thoughts on this, I know you will talk about various tangents too haha but I don't mind
2 years ago YT channel _Resonant Arc_ made a great video called _The Magic Of Final Fantasy 7's Plot Twists_ that actually begins with the creator talking about reading Well of Ascension and how good Brandon is at setting up twists. The main thrust of the video is about how a well executed plot twist is a lot like a stage magic trick and it uses The Prestige to explain why. Michael Caine's character is quoted explaining the three stages of a magic trick (the pledge, the turn and the prestige) and the video narrator compares these to how a good plot twist is created. The video is about how well the plot twist in Final Fantasy VII was engineered in the original game (the _real_ plot twist, not the end of disc 1). I found this podcast episode with Brandon talking about The Prestige and plot twists in general extra interesting as a result. I do also recommend checking out the 11 minute video in question (so long as you've seen Star Wars and played FFVII... or don't mind spoilers of course)
Not all spoilers are the same. This discussion comes close to, and even acknowledges this, but never actually says it. In the part with the discussion of The Prestige, both men talked about a different element of the story that they viewed as spoilers, with very different results, though to be fair, they were also not the same person with the two different spoilers, so that example becomes anecdotal. But, with statements explaining why they will never spoil Ladyhawk (excellent movie, by the way!) but then agreeing to spoil The Village we see a clear acknowledgement that spoilers are different. From this discussion, it does not seem that the studies considered that to be a possibility. There is no mention of how much information was revealed in the study or what type of information. Basic plot and setting information, incidental background, important background that is scheduled to be revealed as a specific point in the story, mechanics of how things work in the story, major climax scenes and outcomes. These are all different. I think an honest study needs to test for and evaluate the results of different types of spoilers. Back at the end of 2000 or early 2001 I was discussing Winter's Heart with some coworkers. We had all read the book and nobody was going to be spoiled even though the book was recently published. Then, another coworker joined the conversation just in time to hear the result of the main story climax. (I'm still sorry, Chris.) We didn't shift gears and check that it was okay when he joined the discussion and we should have. Yes, 21 years later I still feel bad about that one.
I can approach a story for the first time only once in my entire life. I prefer that approach to be as blind as possible. Then, I have time to re read if I want to.
I"m totally on board with spoilers occasionally benefitting a story. If you get the "right" spoiler, it adds an unintended level of dramatic irony to the story, where you are now as a reader elevated above the characters in terms of special knowledge. It oftentimes inadvertently creates drama for the reader in a superior way to the unspoiled experience.
Miller's Crossing. I liked it best about the fifth time I watched it. That's when I really felt that the whole movie clicked for me. I loved it before, but I didn't feel like I completely understood it, until I'd watched it a few times.
I will say: re-watching the prestige is a TREAT because christian bale fundamentally edits his performance depending on which brother he is that day and it becomes really apparent if you know
I had a similar experience to Brandon's "arthouse movie marketed as horror" anecdote with the Korean film 301/302. The VHS cover depicts a couple in bed, a heaping plate of food and the tagline "A deliciously different comedy about the most unpredictable neighbors." So, believing it was a fun sexy comedy, I rented it. This movie is NOT THAT. It's a dark, DARK drama about a woman trapped in a failing marriage who finds companionship with her anorexic neighbor, who's in the final stages of starving herself to death. I have never before or since been so thoroughly bamboozled by a movie cover. I watched it through anyway once I realized the jokes were never coming but I definitely would've liked it more if I'd known what I was actually getting into.
Oh yeah the first ~8ish episodes of Avatar TLA are the weakest (watchable, but mostly just kinda okay) but soon after that it grabs you and slams you against the wall
The neatest "spoiler-free" incident I've had in a long time was when I found out my mother-in-law had never seen Empire Strikes Back and didn't know the twist. I got to see her reaction in real time.
(For the record, her reaction was, "He's got to be lying, right?")
We need a Man Carrying Thing skit of trying to watch a movie with Brandon
Love when Brandon talks about Batman and Wolverine's characters in The Prestige.
Yeah, I'd watch a movie with Batman and Wolverine as rivals.
@@vamsiampolu8438 Alloy of Law
Don't forget Alfred and Black Widow are in the movie too
You make me want to whach The Prgest again
Brandon: I don't have the buy in to watch Avatar
Me: That's rough buddy
I'm with Brandon on that one. People have told me enough that I know or can conclude what's gonna happen and it's so long I don't really have time to get into it and have it be over in a timely manner and having tried a few episodes I wasn't hooked. A few years ago I did have some free time and I though now is when I'm gonna get into Avatar. I made it as far as 12 episodes, after which I didn't care for any of the character, found several fan favorites utterly annoying and over all found the series too childish. Like, it wasn't bad for a kids animated show and I can understand that people who watched it as children overlook certain aspects of it due to nostalgia, like I do with Digimon for example, but I felt the massive following of adult fans who got into it as adults was unwarranted and felt a bit cheated out of £50 (it wasn't on any streaming service I could access and I don't deal with piracy so I had to buy the boxset and import it from the UK to where I live in order to get the original English audio rather than a dub). People kept telling me it got better and that the first season was the weakest and I should just power through, but I just didn't have any interest in continuing.
This spoiler conversation is on point.
I am currently reading "I am not a serial killer" And I am anticipating this supernatural killer so hard thanks to dan constantly bringing it up. haha
I believe Avatar is an amazing show, even if you know the plot. I love the character development and magic system. It is a show I would happily watch again (I have watched it 3 times). Highly recommended by me, but it doesn’t stop me from loving your books. I also love this podcast, it makes my workdays a million times better every Wednesday. Thank you both, you guys are great!
I watch it at least once a year. It's just one of those stories that, like a white lotus, is beautiful to watch unfold.
Yeah Avatar really is just fantastic. I sincerely believe it is one of, if not the single greatest pieces of film or television ever created. It just has such fine expert craft in all aspects. Character arcs, voice acting, dialogue, world building, music, visuals. It's all just so well done. It tells a great story, if not a particularly complex one, but it weaves in such important and meaningful themes in surprisingly nuanced ways. I cannot give Avatar: The Last Airbender _enough_ praise to do it justice. (Now, the Shamalan film adaptation, on the other hand…)
@@JimCullen Honestly, kind of surprised that Sanderson won't give it a go even if he knows the ending considering 'Journey before destination' but there you go.
I don't think I can really get attached to the characters as what they are in the begining since I already know what they'll become by the end.
See, I'm a very gullible person - I, for instance, didn't know who was gonna be the main villain in _Thor_ before it was explicitly shown - and even the most obvious developments have me stick with a hope and/or fear that it'll go some other way. But if I know it from hindsight, there's not even the slightest chance left for that.
Also, when watching and figuring the upcoming character or story arcs myself, I could at least feel superiority for how very clever I was outsmarting a childrens' cartoon. With spoilers, I don't have even that.
I think there's two kinds of enjoyment when watching media. The first is the blind discovery... and the second is piecing out how it was done. I don't doubt that being spoiled makes it a more enjoyable experience for some people... but it also robs them of the first time enjoyment. Without spoiler I can watch a movie for the first time... then watch it again later.
I also think there's something with cognitive load. As in consuming something for the first time requires greater concentration to piece things together. And if you know what's gonna happen, it makes it easier.
One example for me is The Way of Kings. First time reading I wasn't understanding anything... I was reading but not fully processing. It wasn't until Chapter 2 with Kaladin in the slave wagon that things settled down and I started to comprehend the book, since the setting was familiar. Only after finishing the book that I was able to go back to the 475 prologues and was actually read them and process what was happening.
The thing about spoilers is that often time you are presented with information out of context and in an uncontrolled way that could give an incomplete or wrong impression of a work. It's one thing to receive knowledge of the story from the work itself, with all the build-up, context, and connective tissue a story has, and another to read a bullet point list on reddit where people are getting angry about contextless details.
Personally, I want that discovery of the first time through a story AND the revisit with full context. With spoilers, your discovery of a story can be completely taken away and you are only left with the 2nd type of experience.
I mostly agree, but I'd argue that the discovery isn't completely taken away. When you have certain details spoiled, it changes your first viewing (or reading) but it doesn't immediately jump you to your second viewing. You'll still be experiencing most of the story for the first time, you'll just do so with some advanced knowledge instead of being completely blind. So yes, you do lose a certain kind of experience when something is spoiled for you, but you still get something else in its place.
I think personal mentality regarding spoilers plays a bigger role than the actual effect of the information. I'm lucky enough that I'm not terribly affected by spoilers, but for people that are very sensitive to them, it can ruin their experience before they even see the story because they're upset at losing that blind viewing you're talking about. That's why I generally don't spoil details about a story even if I think the details wouldn't ultimately detract from the experience. It's better to be safe and not say anything, unless you know the person you're talking to well enough that you'll know if they're bothered by the spoiler.
I was told the basics of Hoid (that he was a world hopper who showed up in other cosmere books) before I started my first cosmere book, and it massively increased my engagement and thus my enjoyment
Interesting to hear how writers can pick apart a movie's plot and setup, from the perspective of a story-creater themselves. For us muggles there are always times the movie hits us over the head (hence, TV Tropes), but that nuanced superpower is cool!
A movie I appreciated more the second time around was A Knights Tale. First time around, the constant anachronistic motifs distracted me so much I couldn't appreciate it for what it was. Now, I am able to see past that one oddity, and am genuinely fond of the characters, and I am touched so deeply by a few scenes in it, despite it being light fare comedy. Firstly, when his father realises the sacrifice he made worked out for his son exactly how he had hoped, and secondly, how the protagonists friends stand up for him at his lowest point (including the king in waiting).
Just finished The Prestige after being spoiled for it by this episode. It was still absolutely captivating.
I love spoilers. Most of the stuff I read or watch is because I sought out a spoiler that made me interested in learning the context for it, or even just in seeing it executed. Part of that might be that not a lot of people are good at selling what makes something worth reading/watching *without* spoiling it (especially if that's not their job), but still.
I think the name of the Wind is a really interesting case study. I think the book is basically unspoilable (there are maybe just a few things you can say about it that would make someone's experience worse, and not by much), but more than that, the book actually reveals what's going to happen in the future on its own, and pretty much depends on it. By telling you Kvothe has gone to and expelled from the university, killed kings, saved princess, and so on, it makes feel like someone in the world who already knows the myths about Kvothe and is now coming to get the full and true story. And rather than be disappointed by knowing what's going to happen, you're eager to finally get to all of it.
I think that a part of why spoilers might sometimes increase the enjoyment of something is related to the "gloss of the classics". Everybody knows the story of the classics. When you pick up Dracula by Bram Stoker, you are not going in like "Oh, yeah, I wonder what is this book about!". You have already an idea of what the book is going to be about, you have been spoiled.
However, many times, your enjoyment may increase because it is an interesting subversion of the history that you have already formed in your head with those spoilers.
Italo Calvino said something on the line of "classics are books which everybody knows but are always different from what you expected in your first reading".
I think that spoilers are worse when the story itself is highly reliant on the surprise factor to have an impact. Nothing wrong with that, but of course if you take that out with an spoiler, it is like a flat coca cola, still drinkeable, but not the same.
Finally, related to something that you have already commented in Writing Excuses: The difference between saying that there is a bomb under the table and having the tension versus something going boom and dealing with the fall out. When you get spoiled, you are creating that tension. You are starting to see the duplicity of some character, the second meaning of a clue, etc. It is like you are in for the joke or comment.
Only thing spoilers have ever ruined for me are jokes from comedies. I basically believe that if something is good it is going to be good even on rewatch and as you are spoiled on rewatch it basically doesn't matter if you have been spoiled.
Yeah can relate. Loved finding out that the (ehh) four musketeers are absolute douches
Somewhat related, and a pet peeve or just a weird question I obsess about is, why is the whodunnit the dominant form of intrigue for cop shows?
Those TV episodes, especially those after 2000 where the mystery is just background noise for the character's relationship development, do not rely on their mystery all that much to function, and given the fact that they're factory produced, the mystery is rarely all that compelling. So why do they use a formula that requires some of the most finely tuned storytelling to work?
All this to say, all the Lucifers, castle's , mentalist and why not should use columbo as a model rather than the crime of the orient express in order to provide character focused stories with detectives in it;
100% here for people quoting Italo Calvino
One thing that I liked better the second time was The Way of Kings. The first time I read it, there was so much going on that I didn't understand, so I missed a lot of clues. But the second time through, I saw all of those clues, and it was a very cool feeling.
I finally got to listen to that Black Widow episode when the movie released on Disney+ last week!!!
I just listened to it the other day myself for the same reason.
I found that sometimes a spoiler is more likely to make me watch something i wouldn't have otherwise. It piques my curiosity to find out how it gets to that point, how does it happen...
But for the things i really care about and look forward to, i absolutely hate spoilers.
For me, it often happens a "spoiler" will convince me that I might actually like the story I would've dismissed otherwise. A good ending is one of if not the most important element in a story for me. Another are characters. If I don't like the characters at the beginning, I probably won't read the book unless I get "spoiled" how those characters become better by the end. And the chances of getting a good ending from a random book are so low, I won't even consider picking a book I know nothing about from an author I'm not absolutely certain will make at least decent endings.
Spot on with Prestige. I watched it not knowing the twist, was absolutely blown away by The Prestige(s) of the movie, and then now get enjoyment everytime i watch it cause i can rediscover new clues and reminicise on how it got past me. If i went in knowing all of that, i feel id just have heard the "its a double" thing and gone Yep, and then sat there as everyone denied it and stalled the obvious.
On the other hand, I was fully spoiled for Endgame, but when we were concerned whether it would payoff, having the payoffs spoiled actually allowed me to go in excited to see HOW they did it rather than whether they did it.
The rival magician Batman vs. Wolverine...
Man, I'd watch the hell outta that.
ATLA is "So long". Brandon, you have no room to talk about things being too long. (Also nobody tell him about One Piece)
I think he'd appreciate it to be honest.
He would love the magic system
He would love the goofiness for sure. But I guess we gotta give up😢
One piece is trash though
I suffer from anxiety, and sometimes feeling a twist coming up in the book can trigger that. I've needed to do this more than once in the Cosmere.
same. i have to check the last few pages to make it through.
@@mussoletart8485 I read the chapter summary on the wiki, me. I pretend that I'm reading a 19th century novel; Chapter Six: In which our heroes meet at last, a secret Horneater princess, a theft of boots
And so on.
I don't think it's chapter 6, but whatever
Avatar is incredible and you should totally watch it. In fact I got into it during season two because season one Aang was very very 12. I later went back and watched it from the beginning and loved it. I think the reason you could still enjoy it is because it is so character driven, and the bending is just so cool to watch.
Dan's thing about always forgetting one of The Prestige's spoilers because he is so focused on the other one reminds me of how I interacted with the video game Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective. Long before I played it, I read the Wikipedia plot summary, so I knew the key twist. Except I actually mixed two of the twists together and so was wrong. This worked out great because I still saw all of the important clues that I only paid attention to because I knew they hinted at the twist, but still got to be pleasantly surprised at the end. Best of both worlds.
In case anyone is interested, the Ghost Trick spoilers I mixed up are below:
The protagonist Sissel is actually a cat, not a human (though he can't remember this) and one of the NPCs is a version of the dog character Missile from the future. My brain combined those two so I thought Sissel was Missile the dog from the future. Thus, I noticed all the hints that he's an animal (like the fact that he can't read) but still got surprised.
There's been a lot of studies done on music and hits, and how familiarity tends to play a fairly significant role in which songs reach the top of the charts. (That is, people will tend to listen to songs on the radio they are already familiar with.) I find I tend to experience the same thing with books/movies/stories, familiarity helps me enjoy things more and get more out of them and sometimes spoilers/hearing a story talked about helps give me an early connection to things and know what to look forward to.
Ah, and Avatar. I had a friend who was really into the show (and even read a couple of their fanfictions) years ago, and I think I might have watched maybe the first ten episodes, but didn't really get into it. Years later I saw the series was free on prime and was looking for a show to throw on while working on a project, and it was with Season 2 that I really started to get hooked, and see what people loved so much about the series. Now I've been an obsessive fan who's been following the various media releases for quite a while, but it didn't happen all at once, I enjoyed the series more after listening to other fans' discussion and becoming more familiar with the characters and details of the storyline and lore over time.
With the village, the big twist for me was in the middle. In the trailers, it was representing Joaquin Phoenix as the protagonist. You don't even see Bryce Dallas Howard in the early part of the movie. So when he got taken out and it ended up being her quest, That was a great twist for me.
The Wheel of Time might as well be a study in the spoiler vs. non-spoiler experience. It works great on the first read, but on subsequent reads so many scenes take on additional meaning when you have the proper context to view it through. For example the prologue of Eye of the World and our introduction to Rand mean so much more when you know the connection that is there (although it is intentionally made quite obvious, the ordering still means that first time readers don't get the same experience as if they go back and re-read it even just after having finished the first book).
Book spoilers can, but don't always, increase my enjoyment. Never decreases enjoyment (so far, at least).
Any sort of visual media spoilers almost always lowers my enjoyment.
My only thought on why is that when reading I am only experiencing the journey and that can't really be spoiled. Any sort of visual media has an additional element where I'm seeing the setting or character expressions and if I know what the result is going to be, seeing those things is less impactful. i.e. knowing person 1 dies before person 2 sees/learns of it means I'm already prepared for person 2's emotional response and I don't get to experience it with them.
i feel like it depends on the spoiler my friends spoiled the way in which the magic system works in mistborn but I would be lying if I said it wasn't one of the things that pulled me into it
Knowing how a narrative is being put together never ended up lessening my enjoyment of a movie, book, or game, I think because I came to think of it pretty early on like a chef appreciating a meal. The nuance and craft involved in preparing the dish is only brought to the fore, allowing the chef to recognize ingredients used, cooking methods chosen or disregarded, pairing choices, etc. A good meal tastes as delectable as ever, and knowledge--from this point of view, at least--only deepens the experience of it.
The Prestige just might be my favorite movie, and so cool one of my favorite authors covered it
I have a lot of things that I still enjoyed the second time through, but the only thing that immediately jumps out at me as enjoying it more on a repeat viewing was the start of Altered Carbon. The first episode is so dense, simultaneously introducing you to the crazy setting and also this huge gallery of characters, that the first time I was a bit overwhelmed and missed a lot of stuff, and a repeat viewing made me really go "oh wow, this episode is incredible."
That final line about action scenes being boring? 100% agree! I'm watching them in films/reading them in books for the emotional payout!
The good action scenes, particularly in books, do this throughout the fight. In the Stormlight Archive, the arena fight in book 2 is pretty close to perfect for an action scene for me.
no one can write an action scene like Brandon. the master
I was spoiled on books 1-9 of the Wheel of Time and I still loved it. I did find that I almost "looked forward" to certain events happening. This means that even when it was boring I had something to look forward to. However, I did enjoy the books after book 9 far more than the previous ones due to this.
"It is better when you know it is coming: free from the shock of actual surprise you can attend better to the intrinsic surprisingness." C.S. Lewis.
The most memorable example of enjoying it more the second time for me was with an anime called Tatami Galaxy. The series has a penny drop moment and so when you watch it again you see everything with new eyes.
I enjoyed the Pursuit of Happiness the second time through better because I knew everything would turn out alright. The first time I spent the entire movie super stressed out for Will Smith’s character.
Anecdote on spoilers:
I've been playing through the main story of Final Fantasy XIV. It's a good story, but it's very, very long. I would periodically look up the next quest and spoil myself a bit. Seeing the interesting things that were ahead gave me the motivation to continue on. It worked super well.
Moral of the story: If you have an opportunity to be the guest of honor at Conquest, you should do it.
I know you've said you don't like it, but I feel like you can't mention a story better the second time through without mentioning Fight Club. I love the recontextualization
Vague spoiler for Fight Club
"Wait. Were all those people just watching him punch himself in the face?"
@@chestersnap :0 i have neve thought of that in that way
"Brandon is out of Pens" -- Ep 19 of Intentionally Blank
one of the way you could improve those studies (I'm talking about the convo up to 6:25) is by giving them all a survey of different media (other movies, books etc) and then looking at correlations between people who otherwise agree on quality of similar pieces of media. you need a larger cohort for that though
Some details of the end of Rythm of War were spoiled for me, and at first I was mad because I missed the reveal. But, as I read the book, I just loved watching the book build up to the end, and how much Brandon tries to trick you before the Sanderslide. It was so cool and I did enjoy it better, but now I don't really have a reason to re-read it.
The Prologue to the Stomlight Archive in Way of Kings is like this. First time was utter confusion but this is cool. Second time was "Hey I know who these people are "
I enjoy spoilers as it gives me a much larger hint than previews as to if I want to read or watch the story. I am not saying I want every bit spoiled but I want enough of the story to know and get a feeling from someone how they enjoyed the story. Even when spoiled there is so much more to get out of a good story while a mediocre story just doesn't have that much to begin with.
Having something about an art Explained to you does increase your enjoyment. Since you get more nuisance about the art. Watching the portrait of love made me realize what the true value of art history is.
I can't believe Brandon missed the connection between the topic of spoilers and the Spoiler Q & A's he does every now and then! I mean I missed it too and now have to come back to this video just to mention it, but I think that would've been an interesting example of spoilers that made people enjoy something more as opposed to them learning at the pace the author intended. The fact that a lot of these q&a spoilers are things that Brandon hinted at but maybe didn't explicitly right in a current work probably has an impact on enjoyability. Also because you're not getting spoiled for something that you can access currently in a way I feel like you're not getting spoiled so much as you're just accessing content early.
Hmm, I've never watched/read the Prestige and now I've been spoiled for it. But now I wonder if I watch/read it it will be more interesting now that I already know. That twist definitely made me want to read it though!
I haven't watched or read it yet either, and now I want to do both!
Damn brandon and his team are so good at the youtube title game
Totally agree about the Ladyhawke comment!
Fun fact about 6th sense - it self spoiled by being translated to Polish. Reason is "you" in english can be plural or singular but when you translate you need to pick one and this indicated that only 1 person is in the scene while 2 were on the screen.
25:00 that time where its hard to enjoy things becasuse you're learning about narrative. Thats literally happening to me right now
I am not a writer in the slightest, but I routinely belt out dialog, verbatim, before it is delivered on screen for shows and movies I haven't seen before. My wife thinks I have a super power.
A recent example of that CinemaScores issue was The Green Knight, which got a C+. If you went expecting a true to see a fantasy action film, or even just a scene by scene adaptation of say Tolkien's version of the story, you are going to be incredibly frustrated by the very A24 arthouse acid trip you got instead.
Regardless if no spoilers in does make it slightly more enjoyable, you can (usually) only experience something without spoilers once, and with spoilers as many times as you like.
00:25:00 Shad M. Brooks from Shadiversity needs to watch this point so hard.
Personally, I think The Village is perfect the way it is, its merely a casualty of Shyamalan's reputation at the time. People seem to be hung up on the elements of the plot about the nature of the village, and the thriller elements of the creatures, when all of that is just backdrop to the actual story. Its just setting. The twist isn't even this huge reveal (cue inception sound), its a quiet little scene where it has room to sink in. The film is a love story, a character piece set with a really interesting backdrop that creates stakes almost never seen in a love story. And I love the film because of this.
Spoilers don't bug me because it is the "journey before destination" for me
Yeah but sometimes knowing the destination make the journey worse.
Depends on the genre for me.
I’m always sad when the episode ends.
Bahahahaha! Goblets and yarn amigurumi beasties.
Yes, Brandon, you were a GoH at ConQuesT, but that was before a chunk of big staff turnover landed me on the ConComm. I currently head Guest Liaisons, and I'd say I'm sorry you didn't get an official ConQuesT amigurumi, but you've already got a few things kicking around your home and office by me, including a tiny!Vin that I've seen on camera on one of your weekly updates.
The goblets happened due to a variety of reasons. Normally we do mugs.
What happens when you know a particular beloved character will die is that you're constantly wondering: "Will it happen now? Oh no, it's happening, is it? Aaah, don't walk through that dark tunnel without a weapon!"
And then the movie is almost over, nothing bad happened, you begin to think: "Maybe they were wrong. Maybe he survives! Yes, he survives! They were all liars!!"
You relax, then witness a few shady figures meeting on a tower in the dark: "Severus, please."
My brother managed to unspoil a character death for me by lying about it. I used to flip and read the last few pages of a book if I hit a boring part and saw everyone was sad about my favorite character being gone and my brother pretty much said "no, they just got separated" and I believed him. I was both upset and impressed by his duplicity particularly considering it made me grieve over a character death twice.
The movie Million Dollar Baby was one that I wish someone had "spoiled" for me because the actual premise of the film ended up being so wildly different from what I thought that it truly messed with me.
Going back to the “ prestige “ conversation - this is why watching The Book of Eli for the second time is amazing
So, funnily enough, I tend to seek out spoilers because I'm generally of the belief that if a story can be truly spoiled then it isn't really worth it anyway because it wouldn't have held up to repeat readings, so by getting the spoiled version I'm either skipping to the more in depth second reading or I'm getting everything I would have gotten from the first reading because it's all just a twist. The only case in which this has backfired on me was Mistborn, which I had had the big Cosmere level plot spoiled for me by my siblings years before and, having aready read the first two books of the Stormlight Archive, I spent way too much time wondering when Ruin and Preservation were gonna show up that it hampered my enjoyment of the series.
Ladyhawke 🙌🏼
I wonder if people who hate spoilers, also enjoy surprises? Perhaps there’s something in the personalities - and those who don’t mind spoilers are also those who like to know what is coming in life? For example, waiting in line for a rollercoaster is terrifying to some people- they hate seeing the horrors that are looming around them as they que. however, other people are more excited looking on at their upcoming encounter with Adrenalin & it almost enhances the experience to know what’s coming. How many people prefer space mountain (being in the dark and not seeing what’s ahead) to a fully exposed rollercoaster? Is anticipation something that ruins, or something that adds to the experience?
The story Brandon described with different siblings telling a story through journal entries sounds exactly like the movie What Happened to Monday, about a family of seven identical twin women who each get one day to go out into the world and one of them disappeared, so the other 6 have to find out what happened to her. It has an extremely sad world premise.
37:35. "Old grey bearded man".
Me: gives screen the side-eye.
Brandon looks terrified for a moment after he realizes that all pens are finished.
Such an odd thing to remember, but “The Truman Show” being the protagonist’s life filmed wasn’t a spoiler. They show that in the trailer. I had to go back and look to be sure 😅
Oh, and the Rock’s baking movie should be titled either:
“The Great Baker’s Pie”
or
“The Great Baker Spy”
Each season of Avatar TLA is 7-8 hours. If you're committed, you can technically start and finish within a calendar day.
I know that's still a huge commitment for some people. But please, if some of you haven't tried it... Give it season 1.
I'm glad they brought up the Village! I had that spoiled to me and I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. Another for me is La La Land. I knew they didn't end up together and was also told to look out for the color themes in the cinematography. I absolutely loved the movie (and still hated the ending but was able to brush it off). But for the most part, I'll try to dodge spoilers still 😇
Brando managing his time super efficiently
The first time I watched Howl's Moving Castle I jumped in 15 minutes after it started and was lost the entire time, but was intensely interested in figuring out what was going on and thought it was brilliant. Going back to watch the part I missed only told me what I had spent the entire film trying to understand the first time and made it feel more flat as they basically told everything to vegin with.
The Prestige is as good as a movie can be. Perfect movie.
I agree it’s a perfect movie, not in my top 5 Nolan though
(about spoilers: I've written a comment to exactly the same effect two or three weeks ago, maybe more, on a Dusty Wheel podcast! I know many things, but it doesn't tell me how it will all happen! i'm fine with spoilers!- sometimes. And I used "Journey before destination!🍃)
That's a pretty zen way to see spoilers... I just get mad when I get spoiled haha
(let's be honest: we very often spoil ourselves, by watching videos or following things on social media we should just wait to check till we can't get spoiled any longer...
The last times it happened, I know I mostly did it to myself....)
My personal stance: if a story can be ruined by a spoiler, then it wasn't a great story to begin with.
I enjoyed the fun surprise in I Am Not a Serial Killer!
Well, I wasn't around for the theatrical release for LadyHawke, but if you mean the twist I suppose you mean, it's written in large letters on the DVD cover, at least the one I have. If you turned the case to read the back to see if it was for you, then you already know the "twist" going in, which I did, and I still love that movie
I don't want the movie spoiled for me, I just want to know what to expect. Should I bring tissues, will I be laughing, will I be scared? If I am expecting a laugh and it is really more of a drama with some humor, I'll be disappointed.
I love watching the twists unfold and I don't try to figure it out, I just try to be immersed in the experience.
I think it depends a lot on the type of spoils. For example, theRed Wedding, or the "I am your father" are things that if spoiled can destroy the enjoyment. On other hand, I was reading the Malazan book of the fallen and when I finished the 4rth book I just wanted to know one thing.. if Gnaw (Karsa dog) had survived. I read the following 4 books with a single focus.. to reach the point of reunion.. I wanted to read that scene that I spoiled myself (searching in the internet), because that type of emotion is one that spoiling just enhances the time you can experience it..
I greatly encourage people to go into The World's End directed by Edgar Wright without even reading the synopsis (some of the spoil the twist) because it blew my mind when that bathroom scene happens about 45 minutes in. I was getting a little bored with it by that point and was wondering if I shouldn't stop watching and that scene just completely changed my feelings about it. It's one of my favorite movies and has plenty to notice on repeated viewings
My husband has an uncanny ability to predict screen characters' dialogue right before it comes out of their mouths.
Are you married to Joseph Joestar?
Momento is a film you basically need to watch twice. Fifth Sense is one that may fit in that category. Most movies it is the other way though, especially with most twists. Very interesting question though.
Considering Dan's negative take on fight scenes, I dare him to watch Invincible. No, I don't need to bet, I just want him to enjoy the action again.
The thing is fighting scenes that are there just for filling a "action" checklist are dumb. Fights that matter, for a reason that matter, those are different.
It's the same for me. I could never finish John Wick because it was an un-ending sequence of a guy killing guys that I knew how it was going to end before it even begun.
@Producer Adam, Dan also spoils Usual Suspects right at the beginning of the video (it's perhaps the kind of spoiler you wouldn't notice unless you already watched the film, but still) 3:15
First spoiler at 3:22 🤣🤣🤣
Also I agree about the Village- the twist was just not signposted at all and it ruined my enjoyment of the film. However I still really like Signs despite the fact that the twist is nonsensical and undermines the tension.
I have not listened to this episode yet, but I'm excited! I really like this spoilers topic, not many people talks about this, I'm VERY careful with not getting my favorite stuff spoiled so I will like to hear your thoughts on this, I know you will talk about various tangents too haha but I don't mind
Journey before Destination is what watching Avatar last airbender is about.
2 years ago YT channel _Resonant Arc_ made a great video called _The Magic Of Final Fantasy 7's Plot Twists_ that actually begins with the creator talking about reading Well of Ascension and how good Brandon is at setting up twists. The main thrust of the video is about how a well executed plot twist is a lot like a stage magic trick and it uses The Prestige to explain why. Michael Caine's character is quoted explaining the three stages of a magic trick (the pledge, the turn and the prestige) and the video narrator compares these to how a good plot twist is created. The video is about how well the plot twist in Final Fantasy VII was engineered in the original game (the _real_ plot twist, not the end of disc 1).
I found this podcast episode with Brandon talking about The Prestige and plot twists in general extra interesting as a result. I do also recommend checking out the 11 minute video in question (so long as you've seen Star Wars and played FFVII... or don't mind spoilers of course)
Yes! I love the village. And I even liked the twist but I genuinely don't know why people hate it, aside from personal taste.
For a moment I was excited because I thought you were talking about Bong Joon Ho's Mother . You should watch that
These are always too short. Great podcast fellas
Not all spoilers are the same. This discussion comes close to, and even acknowledges this, but never actually says it. In the part with the discussion of The Prestige, both men talked about a different element of the story that they viewed as spoilers, with very different results, though to be fair, they were also not the same person with the two different spoilers, so that example becomes anecdotal. But, with statements explaining why they will never spoil Ladyhawk (excellent movie, by the way!) but then agreeing to spoil The Village we see a clear acknowledgement that spoilers are different. From this discussion, it does not seem that the studies considered that to be a possibility. There is no mention of how much information was revealed in the study or what type of information. Basic plot and setting information, incidental background, important background that is scheduled to be revealed as a specific point in the story, mechanics of how things work in the story, major climax scenes and outcomes. These are all different. I think an honest study needs to test for and evaluate the results of different types of spoilers.
Back at the end of 2000 or early 2001 I was discussing Winter's Heart with some coworkers. We had all read the book and nobody was going to be spoiled even though the book was recently published. Then, another coworker joined the conversation just in time to hear the result of the main story climax. (I'm still sorry, Chris.) We didn't shift gears and check that it was okay when he joined the discussion and we should have. Yes, 21 years later I still feel bad about that one.
I can approach a story for the first time only once in my entire life. I prefer that approach to be as blind as possible. Then, I have time to re read if I want to.
I"m totally on board with spoilers occasionally benefitting a story. If you get the "right" spoiler, it adds an unintended level of dramatic irony to the story, where you are now as a reader elevated above the characters in terms of special knowledge. It oftentimes inadvertently creates drama for the reader in a superior way to the unspoiled experience.
Miller's Crossing. I liked it best about the fifth time I watched it. That's when I really felt that the whole movie clicked for me. I loved it before, but I didn't feel like I completely understood it, until I'd watched it a few times.
I will say: re-watching the prestige is a TREAT because christian bale fundamentally edits his performance depending on which brother he is that day and it becomes really apparent if you know
I had a similar experience to Brandon's "arthouse movie marketed as horror" anecdote with the Korean film 301/302. The VHS cover depicts a couple in bed, a heaping plate of food and the tagline "A deliciously different comedy about the most unpredictable neighbors."
So, believing it was a fun sexy comedy, I rented it. This movie is NOT THAT. It's a dark, DARK drama about a woman trapped in a failing marriage who finds companionship with her anorexic neighbor, who's in the final stages of starving herself to death.
I have never before or since been so thoroughly bamboozled by a movie cover. I watched it through anyway once I realized the jokes were never coming but I definitely would've liked it more if I'd known what I was actually getting into.
Brandon will never know Uncle Iroh. 😔
EDIT: He watched JUNGLE CRUISE?!? But refuses to watch AtLA. 🤦♂️
Oh yeah the first ~8ish episodes of Avatar TLA are the weakest (watchable, but mostly just kinda okay) but soon after that it grabs you and slams you against the wall