Cutting the Smash Bros. Ultimate Roster in Half with Alpharad
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ย. 2023
- Scott sits down with Alpharad to cut half of the roster in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
Alpharad: @Alpharad
This video was originally released via Card #40 of the Scott The Woz Collectible Trading Cards in late 2022.
Edited by Sam Essig and Scott Wozniak
Main Channel: @ScottTheWoz
Twitter: / scottthewoz
Facebook: / scottthewoz
Instagram: / scottthewoz
This video serves as a good reminder on why we should be glad Scott can’t choose the next Smash roster.
Scott would put chibi robo over steve probably
@@KirvyxJust when i thought Scott couldnt get more based.
We can't add MegaMan even though I like him *proceeds to explain why they should keep wii fit trainer for 5 minutes*
@@Kirvyx That... would actually be so hype and let's not even pretend it wouldn't.
“We should keep Chrom over Lucina, he’s more iconic and popular”
Lucina: voted as the third most popular FE character behind only Lyn and Ike via Heroes polls
Chrom: Couldn’t get a win until year 6
(Is just joke, I genuinely enjoy watching people debate smash roster restructuring even if I don’t agree)
I WILL SAY ONE THING;
captain falcon is currently surviving off of super smash bros. LIFE SUPPORT. remove him from the game, you kill him
He has more going for him than Earthbound I think. Cause at least Nintendo threw F-Zero a bone with F-Zero 99 not that long ago and F-Zero is still currently a part of Mario Kart all while Nintendo has pretty much stomped on any chance of Mother 3 being localized and I don’t even think anyone’s asking for a new Earthbound game. F-Zero might be a dead horse but Earthbound is a just a skeleton at this point.
@boydixonentertainment Without Ness, we'll at least still have Earthbound-inspired indie RPGs for the foreseeable future. F-Zero has had comparatively very little influence on racing games, and without Falcon Punch the entire series might disappear from people's memories.
@@boydixonentertainment No one asks for new Earthbound games because the series is finished, like it's story wrapped up and the creator doesn't want to do more, has nothing to do with popularity. But despite this one of the single most requested Nintendo games to this day is an English version of that final game, hell, there's an entire company in Japan that to this day makes and sells official Mother series merch. Not to mention how much modern game devs site Earthbound as an inspiration and lead people to those games. None of those things can be said for F-Zero.
@@rennythespaceguy7285100%, The mother series has had a big impact on indie RPGs and gaming culture. it’s rep is very distinct from traditional JRPGs like ff7, it definitely has earned it’s rep
I think what people don't get sometimes about Captain Falcon is he is almost like the face of Smash Bros. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE who plays smash knows Captain Falcon, fucking loves him regardless of who they pick and he is almost always gonna be taken by someone weather they play a little bit or a lot. Like the man just became Smash Bros.
Keeping Min-Min but cutting Fox is certainly *a* take
Yea wtf
Arms is a more relevant game than StarFox rn, but they should both probably stay
@@Stratilex ...It is????? The most relevant Arms had been in years was getting a character in Smash, not the presence of the game itself. Surely I can agree Starfox hasn't been super relevant for a long time, but even Starfox 2 coming out of the unreleased game vault for the SNES Classic and Nintendo Online was probably more hype than Arms and Min Min. Nintendo self-sabotaging its ESports involvement taking a big part of blame for this.
saying arms is more relevant than starfox is like saying my corpse is fresher than your corpse
@@boop53 except one corpse has been revived a few times and still can't stay alive lol
I love how much time they spent arguing over the final cuts, meanwhile Scott just forgot he was supposed to cut Yoshi
wait I didn't even notice that, that's a chuckle and a half
@@crashmate3583no shot yoshi will ever be cut
@@splaturials9156 Probably a better cut than a lot of them, at least.
I took that comment they made as more of a haha funny joke meming more so than being serious
@@splaturials9156exactly smh
cutting Fox, Falcon, and Mega Man but keeping Greninja and Min Min is absolutely wild
Greninja is a popular Pokemon, he's def staying
Min Min though.....
Think about it this way, the last ARMS game was a few years ago. When was the last F-Zero game?
Edit: ALRIGHT I GET IT!!! F-ZERO 99 EXISTS!!!
@@EyeOfArgus Think about it this way, does anyone not know what a falcon punch is? Falcon is THE Smash character. The popularity of F Zero is irrelevant. This was an awful choice by them to try to let Falcon go, it will NEVER happen.
Also F Zero 99 was literally just released a couple months ago and has been popping off, showing that the fans never left. It is okay that they didnt mention this in the vide because this was clearly recorded many months ago (before Street Fighter 6 released, since Alpharad mentions its release date as being in the future.)
@@brandonfoley6826 I don’t agree with the idea that characters should stay because of their relevance in smash, their relevance outside of it takes priority every time. But I’ll concede about F-Zero 99, i forgot about it
@@EyeOfArgusTwo and a half months ago. Though to be fair, it hadn’t been released or revealed when this video was made.
How is Scott brave enough to just drop this on humanity?
Yeah, keeping Greninja and Chrom over Cap. Falcon, Fox, and Megaman is extremely, extremely wild to me.
@@FeiFongWangIt seems like they're cutting based on character relevancy as opposed to their popularity in smash. It's an interesting as approach to say the least.
@@shehzadyousaf7918 Yeah, can't wait to see Freddy Fazbear take Sonic's spot for the next game if it ever comes out lmao
Very because Alpharad defended Nario
@@davidtg803 wtf does that have to do with anything? Besides, those allegations were settled in court by both parties so again, what relevance is this?
Keeping min min will be great for the 5 arms fans out there
The rapid fire cuts at the very end went from a reasonable list to absurdity 😭
I will always be an advocate for replacing Dr. Mario with Paper Mario and no one can ever change my mind
Even crazier idea, replace Ice Climbers with Mario & Luigi from Superstar Saga
@DonWeaselYeehawEdition I like the idea but I feel like it's be hard to make them look distinct enough from regular Mario and Luigi and might confuse newcomers for example. Paper Mario has a more distinct appearance with him being made of paper and whatnot
Love that idea
@@StenExStended Compromise and make it Baby Mario and Luigi. While I don't personally want this, that's a a neat idea based off the fact they're babies, Partners in Time, and Double Dash. Actually scratch all that I don't think Nintendo wants you beating up babies lol.
@@DonWeaselYeehawEdition Your Mind Is So Beautiful
I believe Sakurai once said in the interview that he never wants to cut the original twelve from 64, so I think they're here to stay in the franchise. But I agree their movesets need some reworking
Jigglypuff and Ness almost got cut twice
I’d agree with him about the original 11. Jigglypuff though? Completely expendable.
@@yellowletters9465 And the reason is still applicable as to why Jiggly and Ness didn't get cut.
@@LuckXvaatiShe's a completely unique archetype in the game and is, like falcon, more famous for her smash archetype than as a pokemon. She absolutely deserves a spot.
As much as I can agree with some of them objectively not needing to be in the game anymore a piece of me loves that he is set on keeping them in there. Like I could see them holding a special place as they are the characters that made smash, idk kind of cool.
I love how their webcams are in the player boxes
Thank you.
1:10:42 “So Lincoln might’ve been gunner, which is unfortunate considering Lincoln’s fate.” Goddamn Scott, that was brutal
What I'm getting from this is there's an alternate timeline where Lincoln shot back and was added to Smash as his own fighter.
Nico :D
Robin and Chrom could absolutely be made into a cooler ice climbers
Better yet, reference the pair-up system in FEA and have them swap like P/M.
@@bekkfxsteven in Ultimate, without even changing their current movesets, could just give them Shield B to do the switch. Being able to switch between a rushdown sword character and a ranged character (especially if Robin could still recharge times while switched out) would be pretty sick AND an Awakening reference.
@@bekkfxst Heck, you can make it so they can call also each other in like an assist to help extend combos and whatnot like it's Mahvel or Dragon Ball Fighterz.
I want that modded into the game now.
@@bekkfxstI love this idea, it makes so much sense for referencing Awakening. Also, a swap mechanic that’s mainly projectile/disjoint instead of combo/killpower would be really unique.
Scott and Alpharad for 2 whole hours??? Forget Smash, *this* is the best crossover of all time
So true lol
Funniest man VS Meme Master
alpharad fell off years ago
@@wilsuhe really didnt lmao
Because maybe he's not one of the sheeple? Lmfao
Scott should make a tier list based on how fun a character is to “just dick around with.”
I am both shocked and a little betrayed that Alpharad axed Joker. What a wild ride this video was.
As an joker main, he deserved it
I agree with the idea that Joker can be replaced by a new Atlus JRPG Protag. since Atlus JRPG's are all basically an offshoot of the Megaten. Or better yet. HEE-HO this bitch and put jack frost in
They cut Joker for the same reason that they kept Chrom. I'd argue that Joker diversifies the roster much more, so that decision doesn't really make sense to me
Just add P3 representation or P6 if it comes out
@@quacksonja2147Except maybe to promote reload P3 is not as much popular and streamline than p5 or even p4. Also Makoto would be another swordfighter, joker add more diversifies (I prefer p3 over p5). As a big Persona fan, other series are more influencal and known but were still cut in the roster.
Nintendo not wanting to pay Tetris for licensing fees is hilarious considering one of the first successes for them was unlicensed copies of Tetris on the NES
It's amusing to hear Scott talk in this video from a year ago about how if he actually sat down and gave Fire Emblem enough time he'd enjoy it, now that we know he liked Engage.
Or jacob saying "yeah pikmin 4 seems fine. Don't know who the protagonist is." I wonder why this video stayed unreleased for so long?
@@MaidenOfAirtrading cards
But he also stated that he hates the story and characters calling them dogshit, i feel he would not change his opinion
I’m so glad Scott’s frankly incredible custom Patrat isn’t the limit for interaction between these two
SNK being popular in latin america was less due to it being considered some sort of "street fighter at home" thing (Capcom was more successful but both were respected companies) and mostly had to do with how SNK used arcade machines that read the game data from cartridges which meant that arcade owners didn't have to get a new cabinet for every single new game they add (which they just couldn't afford with being in poorer countries with a higher expense of importing to)
Sub-Zero, Raiden and Scorpion needs to be in Smash. They are also from a major fighting game franchise.
Halfway through: cutting Fox but sparing ZSS is wild
They kept Greninja and Chrom over Megaman too...
@@FeiFongWangI can see Greninja due to the X and Y anime, and Chrom is definitely personal preference, but there is zero reason Mega Man should EVER be considered to be cut. He’s too iconic.
I would 100% agree except for the fact that I main ZSS
@@K0DA._.Greninja isn't that famous anymore.
I'd only keep Pikachu, maybe Charizard and a Pokémon that's from the current gen at the time(maybe Gen 10)
@@TheTwistedTreant526 I’m just saying that as far as newer-gen Pokemon go, he’s probably one of the most recognizable outside of the legendaries. Tbh, I’m tired of Charizard getting everything. I’d rather keep Lucario or Greninja, or get two new reps, one gen 5, one new gen, alongside Pikachu. If we’re looking for something unique, that isn’t already in a Pokeball, I think Mienshao or Bisharp might be neat. Zoroark, if you wanted to take him out if the Pokeball.
They probably singlehandedly angered every Starfox fan.
All 4 of us and Scott even likes Assault too so lol
Bro they kept Greninja over Fox like what 😂
@@FeiFongWang I wish I wasn't joking but greninja is debatably more popular than the entire starfox series :(
@@edmarcuscabie134 He's a Pokemon character, he doesn't represent his own series or has significance in video game history, they left 6 Pokemon left in the roster and they said Incineroar would just be switched for the flavor of the week. It's extremely strange to not have such iconic pillars of Nintendo but also have a just kind of cool ninja Pokemon that's mostly popular because he starred in the anime for a season.
@@edmarcuscabie134 and idk man, in my mind if you talk to a random normie that has only a passing knowledge of Nintendo, 9 times out 10 they will recognize Fox over Greninja, imo at least
"Falcon and Fox are iconic mostly for being Smash characters." ∴ "let's cut Falcon and Fox from Smash."
???
No way either of those two are getting cut. They are both some of, if not *the most* iconic characters in Smash. Yes, they are generally more popular in Smash than their own series, but that doesn't matter. The likelihood of them being in the game is just as good as Mario himself.
I just think you cannot have a smash game without Fox and Falcon, they are iconic to the series and up the games cool factor ten fold. To me I'm keeping them even if we cut the roster down to 20 characters you would just lose so much.
Agreed. Fox's and falcon's histories as smash characters alone are enough to get them in over 80% of the rest of the roster
How has Scott become so consistent on this channel, while also dropping gems on his main channel
he (somehow) created all these videos on scott’s stash over the course of (probably around) a year or so as bonuses for his trading cards
@@BROJANGSTERyeah, alpha said “breath of the wild 2” and not TOTK so it’s before the reveal fs
Hired editors = more output
@@z.r.r4593
AlphaRad also talked about Pikmin 4 as a hypothetical release.
There's a video from 7 days ago if you want to know
Scott casually dropping another 2hr video after a banger.
The chaos that ensued during the last few minutes where they just purged whoever. The bias to keep Chrom was strong with this one.
You can tell Jacob started with awakening because it's NUTS how much he fights for chrom
It’s always fun hearing small hints of when these videos are recorded like alpharad saying there is excitement for ryu with the upcoming street fighter 6
yeah or alpharad saying "whichever characters from breath of the wild 2"
Scott having to figure out every Pokémon vs 1 billion lions is absolute art
1 billion lions stand no chance.
I don't understand this argument
If we're talking in-game, lions stand somewhat of a chance
If we're talking Pokedex wise, lions get fucking folded by just magcargo, who if you didn't know, is hotter than the surface of the sun...
@@CrimsonGold-pq8xy wdym in-game? The diamond and pearl trio + Arceus solos everything imo
@@luigitoes5887 I meant like how they work in-game
( Movesets, stats, etc.)
@CrimsonGold-pq8xy ohhh then yeah I still think pokemon win no contest. earthquake, surf, and also there are ghost types
I think you could probably condense the miis into one fighter
Well that's what they effectively did, no? From what I could tell they just went with Mii Brawler specifically since it best fits the Miis conceptually, but they would draw customization from all three movesets.
@@Marshall.RI would love one mii fighter who is based on the wii games and tomodachi life, like just little weird attacks
you forgot miitopia >:o@@someguy496
they can be condensed into sans.
so did they lmao
Letting Final Fantasy have 2 reps but getting rid of Mega Man is crazy.
Also I say this as a long-time advocate for King K Rool in Smash (I've had a pfp of him since long before Ultimate came out), Diddy Kong deserves the spot over him any day. DK and Diddy are an iconic tag team.
Speaking of K Rool
Please someone on Planet Earth give me these DK Characters
Give me Dixie Kong (Would someone just please make her playable already)
Funky Kong
Cranky Kong
The DK 64 Crew (Lanky, Chunky, Tiny)
Stanley The Bugman
Ect........................................
Final fantasy is equally as iconic as an 'old franchise' except it's also a behemoth franchise today. Mega man still has games but isn't even nearly as big.
If K. Rool gets cut I will riot. Been wanting him since Melee (along with Ridley). In fact when these two were revealed for Ultimate it literally almost brought a tear to my eye. As someone who was just an elementary school kid when Smash 64 and Melee were around, it made me feel like a kid again to finally see these guys, who seemed to have zero shot of ever being playable, make it in (together no less) as a grown adult in their 30s.
If either of these guys get cut, I legit might skip the next game. Though honestly, I do feel that their low usage (due to their low-tier status) might put them in danger of making it to the next game.
@@N.i.E.M.O I feel the same way about K. Rool (I cried with joy at his trailer) but I think it's unrealistic to expect him to ever appear in Smash again. The only reason he got in was because of the ballot and the fact that Ultimate was all about pleasing the fans. Once they reboot, he'll be swept under the rug and ignored again.
"we need more recent, well known characters" * cuts megaman but not ness *
i'm glad alpharad managed to bring up the 1 billion lions argument in the middle of this
FR LMAO
scott never answered the question
@@dogexearceus would decimate a billion lions alone
@@SyperLmao It'd really be a tougher question if there weren't several actual gods included on one side
@@marzipancutter8144 Also, Guardevoir can summon black holes.
Not pulled from the Pokedex, but from the fighting games, meaning that IS straight up possible.
i love alpharads smile when scott says a billion lions is a billion lions
I couldn’t help laughing at Scott saying he probably wouldn’t try Fire Emblem, knowing that he later got really into Engage
I wouldn't try Fire Emblem either
Since Fire Emblem is complete worthless garbage in every sense of the word
Too many bullshit political speeches about "Is Our Kingdom Worth Saving" which sounds pretentious
Dogshit gameplay which is more or less you the player scrolling through 10 billion stupid menus for 5 hours
Confusing badly written dog vomit stories that make zero sense that would give an M Night Shymalan film a run for it's money
Bland uninteresting characters who have no personality or motivation to do anything (Other than that the plot demands that they do stuff)
And the series is extremely boring and is basically the Japanese version of Call Of Duty (With you getting the exact same thing in every single game with nothing new ever added to the game)
Also. Please Nintendo. JUST PLEASE STOP ADDING 10 BILLION FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS TO SMASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Especially since adding 10 billion Anime Waifu Dating Simulator Emblems characters is not going to make me want to buy 30 million things of Fire Emblem merchandise
Terrible opinion
@@dylansmith5206 on the one hand l wanna say to each their own right, but l cant help but feel like there's a smidge of bias in your otherwise very rational and reasonable synopsis of the series as a whole :d
@@dylansmith5206I think we need more FE characters actually
could settle for 20.
Getting rid of Fox and Faclon is beyond an unga bunga caveman, smooth brained maneuver
Captain Falcon plainly never had business being in this game. If theyre making smash 6 you obviously keep, if youre making smash again from the ground up he's one of the last characters you'd think to put in the game
@radaf4429 F-Zero 99 came out after the video, so Captain Falcon still has enough relevance to remain in Smash.
Some characters also end up being more iconic in their crossover appearances than in their original series. Morrigan hasn't appeared in a Darkstalkers game in ages, but she has appeared in every Capcom Vs. Game since MvC1 (besides Capcom Fighting Evolution, but that game sucked). Captain Falcon is the same way, so it wouldn't make sense for them to remove Captain Falcon from Smash in a supposed reboot.
Captain Falcon also has notoriety in the Smash fanbase (see competitive Smash, comics, parodies, etc.), so removing him for a reboot would be a low blow to them. Seeing that he's also effectively the remnant of the original Dragon King prototype for Smash 64 (compare his moves to the fighters in Sakurai's video on it and you'll see the resemblance), he's pretty much a shoe-in for future installments.
@@theonewhowrotethis5681 F-Zero 99 does not make Captain Falcon relevant lmao
@@radaf4429What a troll comment 😂😂😂
@yusifudo46 F-Zero is super relevant huh?
I think the biggest argument in favor of the Pokemon in the "one of every Pokemon VS 1 billion lions" argument is that.... there are Pokemon who can fly. And survive in space. What would any number of lions be able to do against a Pokemon who is entirely out of their reach?
I mean, are they counting legendaries? Because Kyogre on it's own could just drown every lion unless they get rebreathers or something.
Gardevoir can open black holes and Magcargo is made of lava and is as hot as the sun (or something like that)-even without legends, mythics, and boosts like Maxing and Mega Evolution, I think the Pokémon would still have a solid chance.
And all those pokemon can fall to the hands of a rattata, which a Lion can also defeat.
@@sielklavari mean thats just because the rattata has the tools to do so
i could probably kill a lion if i had a gun, doesn't mean the lion's weaker than me
@@AFluffyFiend yes, but my main point is people say "this pokemon can fly" or "this pokemon can survive in space" yet somehow those same pokemon get hit be a small rats quick attack, so why should we assume lions cannot reach flying pokemon when other grounded pokemon are able to do so?
1:55:39 I feel like Sora would most likely be dropped from the next game is that Disney would probably want to make their own Smash Clone like WB and Nickelodeon, so they don’t need Nintendo anymore
I'd express doubts, but they've also got a Magic The Gathering ripoff, so what do I know?
I think he is likely to be dropped, or at least not become a mainstay of every future entries, even if Dysney don't make their own Smash-like. There's probably just a whole tangled forests of licensing and contract needed to get him in there, and I doubt Dysney would ever just go "sure, you can use him in every game from this point forward", so that forest would have to be navigated again every time.
As someone who plays very casually and with friends at get togethers. If they ever got rid of Captain Falcon I will riot.
Speaking of Captain Falcon
Please someone give me more F-Zero Characters
Please me give me Samurai Goroh
Black Shadow
Deathborn
Might Gazelle
Bio Rex
Ect..............................................
Cutting MegaMan is crazy, he is the whole face of retro gaming
Cutting Captain F is ridiculous too, FZero99 is going strong.
@@minicritman999tbf this video talks about the pikmin 4 reveal trailer and how that’s new, so this video must have been recorded ages, also Zelda’s Tears of the kingdom was referred to as “breath of the wild 2”
I do think Fzero 99 would’ve kept falcon on this list
@@supaskiltz9877Yeah I think it says in desc it's from 2022
I'd probably say Pac-Man is the face of retro. Pac-man fever was huge, and he pops up in media a ton.
more like he's one of many icons for retro gaming lol
This is one of the Scott collabs I've been hoping for.
Kid
@@shinryogawords
I'd love for him to so something with Alax again, but don't see any way in which they could connect
@@pez.emikazoobro is weird
They'd do it eventually
I think you can't get rid of Megaman for the music alone. If Megaman X was represented, that's like 12 bangers with so much potential for unique stages. And an X fighter has so many cool possibilities to design a fighter around.
It’s simple: if Wood Man’s theme is in the game, he doesn’t get to leave.
Mega Man is also one of the 4 gaming icons of Smash and there used to be a time when we all never imagined them being together. Mario, Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man. Keeping Bayonetta over him is such a dogshit take
Also cut man, drill man, gemini man, snake man, spark man, dust man... hard to find a bad track on MM2 - 4. And the X soundtrack might as well have been made for smash. Every track is hype. Not a wasted note or shred of fat.@@bekkfxst
Always happy to see a classic Scott's Stash December release with a video they recorded in January.
Next year Scott’s gonna drop a December vid that recorded in January 2025.
Love Alpharad, known for a long time his name is Jacob, but hearing Scott just immediately drop the "Hey Jacob" is such a way to start a video
This whole popularity argument for keeping Wii Fit Trainer over Megaman has got to be the dumbest argument I've heard from these guys. If popularity was such a big deal, the entire roster would be Pokemon Animal Crossing and Just Dance.
It's usually a big factor. It's also the reason why Mario and Pokemon have the most characters
@@blocks4857 Yeah Mario and Pokemon is obvious, but it gets messy when you can easily make the argument to add 5 different Minecraft characters over most of the roster. They could literally cut the entire Fire Emblem cast and replace them with Ring Fit Adventure and Clubhouse Games characters lol
@@FeiFongWang I said it's a big part. Not that the end all be all
@@blocks4857 I see, I agree with that but at a certain point it gets ridiculous.
@DeidaraSenpai789 I mean this video was going to have a shit ton of bias. (I would personally cut all of the 3rd parties for example)
I think that genuinely, if they were to cut characters but keep Pokemon Trainer, they'd do Charizard, Greninja, and Meowscarada. You could maybe make the argument for Sceptile or Decidueye over Meowscarada, but I think they'd want that new blood to keep things more balanced between old and new.
Fully evolved PkmnTrainer would be amazing
I doubt it, it would make more sense to do the gen 3 starter trio (mudkip, grovyle and blaziken) as they are the most popular trio outside gen 1
I think they'd do something like the Hisuian Pokémon Trainer. Use the three starters from that game which represents the modern series, while also giving representation to Generations 2, 5 (which never had a character) and 7 (which was supposed to originally be Decidueye but they chose Incineroar).
meowscarada would be a very interesting inclusion in terms of moveset
Another important detail about Pokemon Trainer is that they not only got the 3 starters of 3 different types; but they're all at 3 different stages of evolution
So I think a cool cross-gen roster based on the current Pokemon games would be Sprigatito, Prinplup or Dewott depending on where they decide is the current mid-point, and then of course Charizard.
If the release of the next smash ends up coinciding with the next gen of Pokemon: Then gen 5 would be pretty clearly the mid-point rep so Dewott or Servine would be pretty firmly the 2 mid-evs to pick depending on what type the next popular starter is going to be (imo: I do not know who out of those 2 is the more popular)
As a big Pokémon fan who observes what the community is up to, Greninja is extraordinarily popular. Older fans might not think so, many chill fans say their favourites are weird little guys like Joltik or Spheal but Greninja is a massive deal for the franchise. The impact from the Anime was just huge and frankly, Greninja carried the entirety of the XY games and anime on its back and marched beyond what anyone could imagine. Cutting Greninja from future Smash titles would cause people to go absolutely RABID, especially considering how people reacted when the XY anime series ended and Ash and Greninja parted ways.
Frankly I prefer Incineroar, both cause his personality is fun and Smash doesn’t really have a traditional grappler besides him.
considering how huge Incineroar is in the competitive Pokemon scene I'd say he deserves to be in to represent that aspect of Pokemon.
Which is funny, because his Smash playstyle doesn't represent what he does there at all.
Yeah Spheal!!
The discussion on wii fit trainer and the miis made me think about having one mii character representing wii sports, and I think that would be incredible
Minmin Making it to the final cut Hurts me so much
I have genuinely never seen anyone care about Arms. Hell I don’t think they even really care about it besides being Nintendo’s “new thing” lmao
I love arms but they don't work in 2d. Just a well made stage would have been enough
I think Arms had potential, but their biggest flaw comes down to the interesting characters not having interesting enough movesets. They might all have a gimmick, but ultimately, the gameplay still suffers from being too samey across the board. So I think it could reclaim relevancy with a sequel, but goodness, will it need to be highly renovated.
@@droyconThat's the thing, I don't even think Nintendo gives a shit about it. Unlike other games, Min Min did absolutely nothing to boost the series' popularity, and I think that was their last hail Mary attempt to try and make Arms "a thing."
Personally think Miis can be reworked into one character, but with legacy of the sports, play, and streetpass games
No way they kept greninja, sephiroth, min-min, and chrom but removed every starfox character and captain falcon.
While I am not a big Fire Emblem fan, I can definitely say that Ike is one of the most popular characters in the series. Cutting him feels weird from most perspectives other than "fe bad"
Ike is a funny case because his popularity comes half from Smash, and half from people pirating his games. Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn sold like garbage, never got re-released, and then he won the first Fire Emblem Heroes popularity poll.
@@TriforceWisdom64 Nah. Gamecube emulation was not nearly as big back then (you needed a decent machine, too), and Dolphin still has unfixed crash issues on Radiant Dawn to this day.
Ike got 33.871 votes at 1 vote a day over 14 days. Smash did its part no question, but the older FE fanbase who did buy his games can weigh a good portion of that.
Also, if you wanted to play FE 1-6 back then, and to an extent today still, emulation was more or less your only recourse. So your statement is kinda funny in that light.
@@TriforceWisdom64You also have to largely consider that Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn had huge hurdles that were more the fault of the company rather than consumers. Path of Radiance was released just a few months before the Wii was released and Intelligent Systems did not advertise the game at all or tried to make a Wii port of the game.
Radiant Dawn was unfairly review bombed during its initial release because of a localization error that changed the name of difficulties so most people played the game at its highest difficulty setting and judged their experience by that "instead of Normal-Hard-Lunatic, the localization had it Easy-Normal-Hard, with most reviewers unknowingly playing the game on Hard and Lunatic modes. Also, Micaiah, the new protagonist, was greatly disliked at the time and no one even knew Ike was present and playable in this game until months after the reviews. Most reviewers didn't even reach him.
TLDR; The Tellius and their relevance are mostly Nintendo and IS fault because of bad marketing and price gouging, not lack of fan interest.
As a big Fire Emblem fan, I’d say you are right that Ike is extremely popular, and I personally like him a lot more than Marth or Chrom in the FE games. However, I think if you are cutting FE to two reps, it makes sense to have Marth and someone from Awakening (even though I don’t really like the game) or Marth and Byleth because those two games sold much better than the rest of the series.
@@Joel_Pierson I feel at this point Marth can be cut for Lucina, no one particularly likes him, and he has only has relevance on being "the first one"
3 Mario's isn't enough, we need all Mario variations in this. INCLUDING AVIATOR CAP AND OUTFIT MARIO.
Already a good video so far :D
One of the things that’s really hard with choosing characters like this is that you’re creating a roster that will be played in large part by people born after the Wii-U released (god that feels weird saying but those people are 10 or 11 now). It might seem odd keeping characters like Min-Min over characters like Ness, but even a lot of people up to the age of 14 or 15 now will still probably not really know what Earthbound is.
That’s one thing that I would almost argue in favour of a character like Joker. Persona 5 was a massive deal both in Japan and The West, and it’s barely lost relevance since its debut thanks to Royal, Strikers, and Tactics.
I think the four major retro reps here, DK, Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, and Pac-Man, are the perfect picks. Game & Watch and DK are the things that made Nintendo into a game company; Pac-Man is still arguably the most famous character in video game history (nowadays Steve and Mario put up good competition), and even Duck Hunt. Not only was the Zapper a really iconic piece of Nintendo’s history, but Duck Hunt was bundled in with nearly every single NES, at least in North America. You could make the argument for Little Mac or ROB, but I think the one who literally came with every console is the better pick.
The one major thing I would disagree with this list is Captain Falcon. Yeah F-Zero isn’t a relevant series anymore, but at this point, Falcon just is a Smash character, I’d argue THE Smash character. There’s a lot of characters even on this new roster a lot of people might not know well, but if you know Smash, you know what a Falcon Punch is. That single sound byte alone makes him an almost irreplaceable pick in my opinion
The thing is Smash always had multi-generational appeal. you have a rep for the latest Pokemon games, and one of the gen 1. you have the latest fire emblem lord, plus Marth the original one. The splatoon rep for the more recent nintendo fans, then classics like Fox for thoses who grew up in the N64 or Nes era.
i'd Keep Min-Min and the inklings, but i wouldn't put out Mega Man, Falcon or Fox. Overall their choices seems to have a slight recency bias.
and i understand cutting Joker since while popular, not only he is not particularly strongly associated with Smash (or even Nintendo), and the audience for Persona skew older anyway, so i don't think he'll do much for born post-Wii U generation, and older generations, well...have classic characters.
I think all of the original 12 characters should be kept on principle regardless imo, but the interesting thing about Ness specifically is that Earthbound is significantly more popular today than when Ness was first added to Smash 64 both because of Smash itself and popular games that were inspired by Earthbound. I have a 9 year old cousin who knows about Earthbound because of Undertale and Smash. You could argue he deserves a spot based on popularity more than ever.
King of Fighters is SO important to the history, development, and mechanics of Smash. The entire movement system of Smash is directly based off of SNK games, I just don't think you can cut Terry without having an SNK rep.
Bizarre that they completely missed that in their discussion despite Sakurai making a whole history lesson on it
King of Fighters directly made Sakurai make Smash due to him beatin ass in KoF 95
Maybe if anyone played an SNK game in the past 20 years, you might have a point then
@@mor3gan285 Trying to start a fight with the entirety of Latin America isn't something I would do... But feel free I guess.
@@evilded2 newest kof didn't break 1 million sales, it's popular with old arcade players in Latin America that's it
I think it's really interesting to see how long ago this was recorded. Based on the number of pokemon mentioned, it has to be before last November, meaning this is at least over a year old. Alpharad also called Tears of the Kingdom Breath of the Wild 2, which mean this was before the title was announced, which places the recording before September 2022.
I didn't look at the description until after I wrote all this, and it says it right there.
Good list, but I feel like they could've axed either Villager or Isabelle for sole Animal Crossing rep and make space for someone they were hoping to keep like Kazuya or Ike.
-Or Megaman-
I think they should've removed Bayonetta ngl
Keeping bayo was dumb as shit
Min Min should've been removed
Nintendo would remove Villager, Isabelle and Tom Nook are the faces of the series now and the player character is just shown as an avatar in new horizons, there’s no connection with how they are a unique figure in the universe but is now defined as the self insert you control
Masking the webcams in the character UI boxes rules like what a small but smart decision
When they were talking about Greninja I didn't expect the "let's move the X onto Palutena", I got whiplash from that, it felt like she caught a stray bullet 💀
For Dark Samus, you’d think they’d make her more like how she appears in Metroid Prime, spraying phazon all over and conjuring more to gain more power, but her being a literal echo fighter makes her so easy to cut out 😞
I love the idea of the collaboration of scott and alpharad. However, as someone who has the most fun in this game playing every character, this premise and how easily they write off characters breaks my heart.
Honestly it’s pretty ridiculous that they see how many characters are in this game and go “yeah it would be better if we didn’t have this”
I feel like these two are really overestimating Chrom importance, yes he is the lord of awakening, but he is not the face of fire emblem or even his own game, the guy lost a populairty poll to Gatekeeper and Marth.
There is a reason why Lucina and especialy Robin got in to Smash 4 and not Chrom. Chrom might be the least important lord in their respective game.
Imagine saying that when Lucina is even less important in her own game...
Totally. Not to mention the fact he’s still far too similar to Marth to warrant keeping both of them on the roster while axing Ike, Corrin, Robin, and Byleth and other characters from other series.
@@V-Jes I'd say Chrom and Lucina are roughly as important in Awakening. They're both major characters early on, and then Robin takes center stage. It's just that Lucina is leagues more popular.
But yeah, keeping Chrom just felt like a Jakob thing that Scott didn't feel qualified to contest. He's among the first characters I'd take out no question, there's quite a lot going against him.
@@CyclonSilver Chrom still has plenty of plot importance after the first story as he is the 1 who gets the plot sword of the game to beat the final boss, while with Lucina you can literally remove all of her story scenes from the game and the story would still be the same because that's how little she matters in that games story, what is also why the game has no issues if she dies but if Chrom dies it's an instant game over even on Casual mode...
@@V-Jes The same is true for Lucina, as she has the Basilio and "traitor" Robin sub-plots going for her. She's also one of numerous "I cannot die, I must retreat" characters throughout the series, which is the way FE keeps plot-relevant characters, well, part of the plot, even if they die in gameplay. Chrom being a game-over condition is only a mechanical difference as a result.
I always thought Paper Mario would be a cool addition to a Smash roster; he's visually and technically distinct enough that I think you could make it work.
Keeping Chrom but cutting Fox and Falcon is a wild choice. When I was much younger in the Brawl days, I didn't know what an F-Zero was, I didn't know there were Starfox games after 64, but I DID know "FALCON-- PUNCH!" or how Fox was "the best [Smash] character ever." I didn't know Melee had a competitive scene in 2010, I just knew it was "that old, mysterious Smash game my cousin also has that he allowed me to play one time."
The collab no one expected, but everyone wanted
I can't keep up with so many quality videos at once, Scott!
Let's cut Fox and Captain Falcon cause their not relevant to Nintendo anymore.
*1 minute later
Let's keep Ness. We need more niche Nintendo representation.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Greninja is the marking of the change in the Pokemon franchise, he was the swap from 2D to 3D and showed just how truly cool and good the design art could be, he was the most popular pokemon and when he’s available for rankings you see greninja consistently sought after. My friends swapped his starter out in every game from Kalos to now for a froakie, no that’s not a joke, and yes I also think it’s dumb.
Your friend has good taste honestly. Though not using an Alolan starter hurts.
@@TheAwesomeDarkNinja Yeah no it does but it’s funny as hell to be honest, he waited to get scarlet and violet until he could use greninja.
I dunno if this has been proposed before but I do like the concept of the echo fighters serving as a "legacy toolkit" for characters that will be reworked in the next smash game. Kinda like how Young Link plays more like traditional Link with regular bombs and stuff - if they rework samus and peach and mario to have new kits Dark Samus and Daisy and Dr Mario could all have their original movesets for folks looking for that familiar (if outdated) kit :)
i'd much prefer that dark samus gets her own moveset tbh, so much missed potential
@@kiwi_arms If it came down to Samus getting reworked and Dark Samus mostly staying the same, I would happily take that.
@@totalradlad the perfect world for me is that they rework both of em-- it's weird as hell for dark samus to not have any of the stuff she actually does, like what her assist trophy did
@@kiwi_arms It is definitely pretty strange and I think she deserves a reworking to some extent. Like, she logically shouldn't have any of the same special moves aside from maybe the charge shot. I guess I just really want a new Samus moveset based on Dread a lot more.
Incin is literally the most perfect pokemon for a smash game personality wise. Gameplay wise, he's just exciting to watch. You're on the edge of your seat watching an Incin match at high level because he has to work his butt off to get in, but when he does the enemy just explodes. But he can explode just as quickly himself if he messes up even once.
If any Non-gen1 rep should stick around it's him.
I wouldn’t cut Banjo because he is a pretty distinct looking and acting character on the roaster, you don’t have a lot of real animals here and Rare is super important to Nintendo’s history. They really helped carry Nintendo during the n64 era. Meanwhile Final Fantasy 7 has never been on a Nintendo system but has two reps.
I'm shocked they kept min-min. She would be one of my first non-echo fighter axes.
I think it make sense to keep her (or replace it with another ARMS character) it might have not taken off like Splatoon, but ARMS was still a new Nintendo IP that deserve to be acknowledged.
It's good to know that Scott is talking to more and more TH-camrs
I hope he chats with Dunkey some day
@@dariel2048 hes worked with dunkey before
This was like one or two years ago lmao, it was for one of the charity bonanza things
"I don't think it's a hot take"
_Proceeds to drop the hottest takes known to man._
The fact that this video has several mentions of Street Fighter 6 followed by "upcoming" and "on the horizon" makes me wonder for how long this video has been cold in the oven.
It was part of the trading cards for Scott's 2022 Charity Bonanza, so it'd probably been about a year since it was recorded
>cuts F-Zero and Star Fox
Cue me re-enacting that Vince McMahon meme
I hope if we do get another smash game, if nothing happens with daisy to actually make her a unique playable character/they cut her echo fighter slot, I hope they just make her an alt with 3 recolours. Keep all her visual effects and voicelines and it works out just fine imo
Could rework Peach based on the new game, keep Daisy the same.
I was actually one of the few people who was excited for Byleth in Smash.
Definitely a lot of completely insane picks I can't get behind, but on some level I respect how unilaterally it manages to be a hot take heaven instead of feeling like it's snubbing a particular community. On top of that, it feels like it never got too reductive? A lot of Smash roster vids like this or even discussion about Smash tends to get very reductive around certain arguments, and sometimes even feels hypocritical. So at least this feels well-explained and thought out.
Someone in the comments put it really well, Smash is a celebration of history, it feels like a really weak argument to talk about how a franchise is right now or if it'll be popping off in the future. On top of that, it's really easy to go back in time and point at instances of Smash raising the stock of certain franchises! Fire Emblem got picked to make the jump to the west because of Smash. I think Captain Falcon's presence in Smash is what keeps fans asking for new F-Zero, because people love him in Smash. Hell, if we want to get meta, look at the games that build on top of Smash like Rivals of Aether or even Nick All-Star Brawl, and they put in a Fox archetype. Maybe Fox doesn't represent what StarFox is about, but he's become more than that; he's arguably become the Ryu of Smash!
I'd absolutely not cut out Mega Man for one. He's been present in some fashion in gaming for years, the influence of the Mega Man series cannot be understated, and he's arguably the platonic ideal of a Smash inclusion to me - down to having strong Nintendo ties. If anything, we should be getting Zero in the game too is my take on that. Simon is absolutely the same. Castlevania is half of a damn genre name and you're gonna cut the guy? Nuh uh, they gotta stay in my eyes. Hell, throw in Alucard, or Soma Cruz. Banjo should stay too. Rare probably defined half of the N64 library, and Banjo is the face of that. He's also going to be my vector to demand a Jet Force Gemini assist trophy of some kind.
Man, I don't want to be mean to ARMS, but that game just did not pop off in any capacity. It's really hard to even make the case a fighter for it should be a thing. I think it'd be easier to accept if a lot of easier shoe-ins were kept but I don't think ARMS has remotely maintained any stock, not in the same way franchises that haven't been around for ages have. People STILL want an official Mother 3 release close to two decades later!
Now my hot take is that quite frankly, Cloud and Sephiroth should go. I know FF7 is the most iconic game, but quite frankly, they lack the Nintendo factor, I know Smash has started to branch out to video games as a whole but I think it's still fundamentally a Nintendo fighter, so when it comes down to it, I'd rather see an FF6 character or even Crono from Chrono Trigger. Even now most people will put FF6 and Chrono Trigger as some of the best RPGs of all time, and RPGs have also come to define the SNES in a big way too.
For Cloud and Sephiroth you said yourself Smash is a celebration of video game history and yeah SNES was a big part of JRPGS, especially for FF and i'm not gonna even argue that, but I do think Cloud and Sephiroth are the biggest characterrs in terms of JRPGS and not having them both would be weird. I'm not saying that other FF should not be here but when it comes down to it...yeah
@@ErnieWick Cloud and Sephiroth are definitely not the biggest characters in terms of JRPGs though, they were just the biggest for a very specific age group of people since it was the only JRPG they played. For smash specifically, it feels like it should be a character that at least showed up on a Nintendo console.
If we did want to keep FF representation, only the first 6 were on Nintendo consoles. Logically speaking, it should be limited to FF1/4/6, as those were the ones with US releases and have some of the more iconic characters. The best options that jump out are Terra/Cecil or FF1 generic characters. A pokemon trainer style switch of FF1 black mage/fighter/white mage would probably be pretty popular. A chocobo/moogle would also be pretty safe.
Outside of FF, Hero was a great choice, and Crono would have been a much smarter choice in terms of nintendo factor.
@@KaosOrder Okay yeah I can see that Cloud and Sephirot might not be the biggest JRPG characters but they are still up there. Hero and Crono are great choices.
And technically speaking Cloud shows up in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories for the Game Boy Advance...so it counts, barely, but it does
@@ErnieWick True, that's a good reason Cloud is a better choice than Sephiroth, but I still think a core FF would be better representation considering how much they meant on the NES/SNES, particularly FF1.
@@KaosOrder It's definitely true that FF7 didn't originally come out on Nintendo, but it and Crisis Core are on Switch, so there's really no reason to get rid of Cloud at the very least, even if other Square series like Chrono/TWEWY/FF1-6/etc. are more closely associated with Nintendo.
removes fox and cpt falcon
"yea we have to keep 4 FE characters, ike is so unique"
THIS IS THE CROSSOVER I NEVER KNEW I NEEDED
I tried pulling for this card in 2022 and never got it... I'm so glad it's finally open to everyone.
I'm sorry, but as much as I like Chrom, I'd rather have Robin in Smash instead of him. Their use of tomes and the weapon durability mechanic is very unique and unlike anything else seen in Smash. I enjoy playing Robin a lot.
Turns out only focusing on recent relevancy and high-selling series makes for a pretty boring character roster
i’m glad he specified it was from the cards in 2022 in the description because i got thrown for a loop when alpharad called it breath of the wild 2
Seeing my two favorite TH-camrs interacting is the one of the best ways to get whiplash!
my two dads arguing about what pets i can keep (i found them in the woods)
For the most I think I'm on the same page as the two of you. That said (and maybe it's just because I'm a few years older than you guys), cutting Mega Man compared to some of your other keeps was absolutely wild to me.
Literally two of my favorite TH-camrs in one 2 hour video??? Fucking crazy
Getting rid of fox is the most crazy pants thing I can possibly think of when making a roster. The outrage alone from the competitive community alone wouldn’t be worth it lol
Good thing the competitive community is so tiny in the grand scheme of things they don't matter at all lol
@@gligarguy4010 I guess I do not *really* know what I’m talking about haha. I used to watch the finals at Evo and that’s pretty much it. But it feels *wrong* not having Fox around to be top tier lol
@@gligarguy4010Nintendo apparently thinks they matter a lot. Matter enough that Nintendo very openly hates the smash competitive scene and has made several attempts to kill it because… i don’t know, old dinosaur company logic.
@@tropicturtle9021So they don’t matter then
Nintendo hates competitive so much they would definitely axe old favourites just to keep them away
Cut everyone except the Fire Emblem characters.
Alpharad: “I like the how the Animal Crossing reps have really non violent move sets”
*proceeds to show Villager burying Luigi alive before dropping a bowling ball on his head*
Suika Month has been capped off with a Scott the Woz crossover
Personally speaking, if we are talking about cutting Mega Man and Simon, then yes cutting Banjo Kazooie makes sense. But to say they had the least impact is something I completely and utterly disagree about. There was almost no reaction to Min Min or Kazuya compared to Banjo. People were screaming and crying tears of joy over their release, and while I do agree that it has almost flatlined since they came out, at least they got that insane initial reaction whereas Min Min or Kazuya got almost nothing for both sides of announcements and release
Their inclusion was cool and impactful for the people that have been wanting them in for years, but the issue comes in with that not everyone knows them when compared to other reps. smash fans wanted them in but who really cared outside of that community? it wasnt like Steve where EVERYONE has played minecraft or even like isabelle where a more casual gaming fanbase can like and enjoy them in a modern aspect.
@@lilgvbjr4683 I completely agree with not everyone knowing who they are. For most people it's Yogi bear with a fucking bird in his backpack. But for those people who did know them, they were a HUGE impact on people; whereas someone like Min Min was almost dead silence in reaction. Also they represent the heyday of 3D platformers, and were huge in the late 90's early - 2000's. Those are my arguments but again I think it would be wrong to say that they got the least reaction out of all the smash dlc
@@Aidswayz yeah but thats the point, his inclusion was for a more niche collective. for characters like min min or kazuya the fanbases for them freaked out as much as the smash fans. the point of the video is to run the bases. get all that we can that’s necessary and needed in a smash game. banjo aint necessary cause not everyone knows him and the smash community got fed with characters like Ridley and King K that were wanted since melee like Banjo but have appeared more often through the years than banjo
@@lilgvbjr4683I personally disagree with you, as I think there was a larger group freaking out for Banjo than characters like Min Min. And once again I do agree with not everyone knowing them. But I’m mainly arguing that they weren’t the least impactful characters in smash and still have a more powerful history than someone like Min Min. Just imo
Kazuya and Min Min where just less surprising. Namco was working on the game, and Ryu and Terry set a precedent for Fighting Game characters, it was only a matter of time before Kazuya or Jin.
They really had so many good choices and then nosedived at the end lmao😂
this being recorded before totk's title was even announced is wild
I think the perfect Fire Emblem representation would be Marth, Robin, Byleth, and whoever the most recent protag is at the time. They all play uniquely from each other and represent important points in the series' history. FE deserves the representation, but I think cutting the number of reps in half is objectively correct.
I completely agree. Roy, Ike, Lucina, and Corrin all had a well-deserved place in 4 and Ultimate, but just don't bring much to the table going forward.
I have a really hard time justifying avatar characters. Especially Robin where there was a character creator. Doesn’t feel like it represents the game as well when people can change name and appearance. Also weird because villager and hero are also nameable but they aren’t given a name.
I think Robin or Byleth should be cut way before Ike. If I had to pick, I would lean heavily towards Robin.
@@crushdavis7048 Robin using tomes, having weapon durability, being tied with Chrom as the main lord of Awakening, and representing the series' paradigm shift to self-insert protagonists makes them *the* most important FE character in Smash.
@shepherd6692 I think the fact that Robin and Byleth both have canon names, appearances, and backstories makes them justifiable. Plus Robin in Awakening actually has his own thoughts and talks like everyone else.
When was this recorded? Breath of the Wild 2, 905 Pokemon?? This is like before May 2022. Truly a stash of Scott's
I remember I had a conversation about Steve being added to Smash, a few hours before he got announced. It was so strange...
I get that they set up some ground rules or expectations as they started to cut but like.... looking at the remaining roster, did that look like a fun game? I feel like it was left campier than ever, with fewer counter play characters. Gutted the rushdown and more rounded boxer types.
They chose the wrong ground rules clearly. Cutting C. Falcon is objectively wrong.
@@austingoyne3039 Honestly, I think I'd rather play the game made up of the characters they cut, than the ones they kept