A young, naiive, impressionable girl is forced into old practices and mentalities, and she seems really interested in the new ways of modern life. She's scared of dabbling in these new progressive acts because her mom doesn't want her to, but her lesbian family members step in, and help her get into it, so now she loves it. What an incredibly specific scenario... huh....
However it's realistic. In any generation that's always been the case. There are things that I'm more progressive on than most of my family. Look at rock and roll, the older generation hated it called it devil music but the younger generation loved it
Hmm yes. take the advice of random individuals based on what they like fucking instead of the EVIL parents that totally just want you to live a monotonous life
@@squeaky1963 parents who they admitted tried it already and decided not to continue but they didn’t bother asking her mom why she doesn’t want her to learn they just do it without discussing yup that always turns out well
The SW prequels had better political allegories as it’s a basis for world building. It failed in HGS because it’s just little self inserts that have no pay offs and are only mentioned briefly
Lord of the Rings has better political allegory because it doesn't try to be and the focus on the story IS the story, Tolkien never wanted to spoon feed you his world-view like C.S. Lewis did. Instead he built a world and sprinkled his world view into it, but left it open enough for you to explore and make your own decisions. That's why Tolkien's stories are absolutely timeless and used more or less as the basis for all fantasy. High Guardian Spice is wish fulfilment for a group of blue haired tumblrites, it's not written to be timeless, it doesn't want to tell you a good story, and it CERTAINLY doesn't want you forming your own opinions. HGS is basically a high budget Sonichu, and nobody will convince me otherwise.
The mom isn't being a hypocrite. Being a recovering drug addict and telling your child not to be one isn't hypocrisy. Now if she used one when Sage wasn't around, that's hypocrisy.
Well here's the thing...you can't argue with someone who twists the facts and play word games, who's purpose from an argument is not to reach a unanimous truth but to be the victor no matter the case.
She was raised on 'old magic', so maybe she feels right using it. They don't explain WHY Sage has to learn 'new magic'. They just tell her that she should just do it. They never ask her what her personal viewpoint on the matter is, or whether she wants to learn it because she wants to or because she feels pressure to do so because she gets bullied for using 'old magic'. They just cast aspersions on Sage's mother out of nowhere and we're just supposed to take that as them being in the right. What a load of shit.
Exactly what annoys me so much. Not only is it a bad real-life insert, They don't even do anything interesting with the fact that it's just a political metaphor. They just say "Old stuff bad, new stuff good" it's so pathetically 1-dimensional.
@@BlackLightJack. Not only that, but they're basically pressuring a character to change a part of who she is because...it's new, I guess? Very progressive in a show that seems to tout itself as forward thinking and open minded, but also tells the femboy that he doesn't have to be who others expect him to be. Mixed messaging much?
i watched the show however they never really explain why she doesn't like using it other than it takes from nature or something ang the only real argument for new magic is that well... its new and easier to use which is debatable if it's safe as it misfired and killed a sea dragon however old magic is kinds obsolete in there world my one major gripe with the character of sage is that when her view points are challenged about the fact that it kinda useless in their current society she got mad at time for saying she was taking long... because she was..... both ways of magic just kinda suck and im mad it took a whole show for the concept of simply taking the best from both came up
You wanna lose your mind a little more? XD Later on its hinted 'NEW MAGIC' is what is behind the corruption or 'rot' as they call it. So....what the hell is that supposed to mean with our metaphor?! Keep in mind the trans character is using new magic to stay in their male form, but, new magic is behind the corruption so....WTF show?!
This entire show is one giant political insert cluster. This wasn’t made with the idea of telling a legitimate story, it was made with the idea of catering to a very specific demographic. Which I would be more understanding of if they did anything interesting or unique with it, but the fact of the matter is they just don’t here. Nothing about this feels unique to their world and certainly nothing about it is creative. UPDATE: I think this comment says it enough, but just because I want my hunk of meat after suffering 7 episodes of this thing, I do genuinely consider it one of the worst pieces of media I've ever experienced. Nothing has ever come close to the levels of failure this show reaches. It genuinely does nothing right, and a part of me believes the show runners did that on purpose for whatever reason.
It's just propaganda, actual storytelling provides an escape from reality and let's you to create entire world's where everything is the opposite of our daily lives, meanwhile Propaganda is exactly what you said right there, it's an entire fake argument on why the supporting side is good and anything else isn't All throughout the series it's the only thing they do, they give things they dont like in actuality something that is easy to hate in order to prove their point without actually elaborating on why their side is a good one Honestly, I wished companies could see through these shams they call "storytelling" nowadays, actual storytelling doesn't favor any real parties or movements
@@nutsandbolts1264 the would rather cater for views then actually make a good story and have am actual good message, with how things work is as you said with the propaganda, one side will tell you they are good well making a straw man for the opposition and tell you to never ever ask them why they do what they do or think what they think. When you raise people to never question and only listen to your side you create a group that are easy to control and manipulate. And thats why this show doesn't dive in to asking the mother why because they would need to make her side understandable which will make kids open minded amd you can't have that.
@@Ordep_Aviaras As a matter of fact it's the opposite, they made a show that they thought appealed to the vast majority of users only to realize not everyone in the internet is like them
Sage's old magic is so much cooler than new magic tho, its honestly OP, she should really embrace it rather than listen to what everyone else thinks. This is really counter intuitive to fantasy writing.
The 'new magic' Is what's causing the corruption on this world and It's being used to satisfy selfish desires and deforming and twisting reality to make It fit into your personal delusions.
@@davidfrancisco3502 also since there are fantasy classes The rogue/thief class would be very powerful just steal it and use it against them for absolutely no cost
@@davidfrancisco3502 Kinda weird considering writters are woke, don't they think people can connect the dots and think "new magic=progressives, since both corrupt the world" A very poor choice in terms of writting on their part
More like they should revamp the new magic and old magic concept or basically re-write the whole concept of it honestly. Like how new magic are convenient,easy to use but less powerful and limited while old magic being more powerful and limitless while harder to master and inconvenient at times. That way it is one step direction to have better writing. And don't forget to have Sage experience the fatal risk of new magic so that she can understand why her mum didn't let her or prohibited her from using it. Even Boruto they show us why ninjutsu is way stronger than ninja tools and even show an episode where Inojin try to cut corner on his drawing jutsu by simply printing out his drawing and activate them whenever he wants only to find later on that his jutsu's from the printing failed to work.
You know the saying "don't knock it till you tried it"? Her mom tried it She didn't like it She knocked it She's not a hypocrite. She speaking from her own experience.
Maybe she's not being a great communicator and hasn't told her (14 year old daughter, btw) the reason why she stopped using that kind of magic, but you're right, she's not hypocritical
@@seekingabsolution1907 Maybe she didn't want to talk about it because it brings back memory? It makes sense that She 'hates' New Magic by Sage's words if that's the case. Few would be able to talk about their past trauma to their children and chose to just steer those children in the direction that they deemed right by experience
It's really the simple fact that they never explain WHY she stopped using new magic that makes this scene so attrocious. There has to be a reason she stopped, and they just choose to ignore that.
@@rachelciel3330 If that really is the case, I'd imagine it's because her New Magic got out of control and caused some...dire accidents (as Sage would later do to the Scypith). Thoughts like that make me wish that Old and New were nothing more than a parallel to manual effort and advanced tech.
Subtlety is a lost art. Truly. If they'd used the word "traditional", we would've understood without the slap in the face. Someone else reviewed this scene, and the best comment I saw for the video was this, "I think the better question here is *why did she stop being rebellious*."
And also, why did "new magic" somehow become almost synonymous with present day butch lesbian fashion and punk culture? It's not "punk" or rebellious if EVERYONE is doing it so casually!
Can't have that, if they do that then that means they will encourage kids to take in both sides of a political argument and get a better understanding of why both do what they do. Can't control kids if they are free thinking don't be silly!
My thoughts exactly. I thought there was going to be some twist about New Magic being tied to that weird tree rot or something. I thought the mom had gotten into Nu-Magic, realized how fucked it is, and went back to the traditional (implied to be more in line with nature) magic. But I had given the show far too much credit
@@Unclaimed_Username gotta love how the same teacher who ridiculed the girl for using old magic turns around after an accident involving new magic/nu-magic and tells her, "it's ease and effectiveness hides how uncontrollable it is." BRUH WHO MADE THIS IDIOT A TEACHER?!
"Your mom used to be cool, but now she's lame, don't ask why." That's the only message I'm getting from this spiel. I would think the reason that her mom gave up New Magic would be a PRETTY IMPORTANT DETAIL, but I guess agendas are more important than well-thought-out storytelling.
To be fair, it could have been the start of something that would get explored further in later episodes, and maybe they just don’t know her reasoning… But if they do, then this would probably be a good time to tell her, seeing how this could be an important character developing moment…
@@goodmachines7743 if it was meant to be something we find out later, we would have some sort of clue... A pensive scene, something to make it seem like there is something beyond what we're being told... So far, we only see one side of the argument
I wouldn’t mind this as much if they bothered to explain WHY Sage’s mother despises new magic and reverted back to using old magic. Like, did she hurt someone in a way that involved new magic? Did someone hurt her in a way that involved new magic? We don’t know, cuz this is so poorly written-
@@frootsnacc6790 Its heavily implied that new magic is the source of the blight that is spreading across the magical forest . Im not sure what message its trying to push aside from some kind of generic climate change/ pollution. Therefore, it isn't to far a stretch that maybe the mom found out new magic is literally killing everything or "sensed a disturbance in nature" (at least if the writers were competent) and opted back to tradition. I mean the whole shows lore is just one giant IOU letter that raises so many questions and answers none. What even is magic? Is there a God that owns it or is it enviromental/dimensional? They pulled this plot from Little Witch Academia, except there its Magic vs. Technology rather than New Magic V. Old magic.
@@t.r2603 so basically New Magic vs Old Magic is *actually* a metaphor for climate change and New Magic is corporatist climate denialism and Old Magic is people who actually care about the future of the world
The funny part is, I don't doubt that this is what they were going for. But they still weirdly tried retcon it later by making Caraway use the shitty slow old magic WITH new magic for no reason. They just didn't know what they wanted to do with it and had a different idea each episode.
Thats what happens when your main focus is on shoving politics on kids and focusing on trying to be so progressive you do the opposite. There's no focus on plot or good storytelling, only how much crap can they cram in to show how "progressive" they are.
@@keiranleeoates The funny thing is, this is not a kids cartoons. Because later, They showed violence and blood. And some minor swearing. But at the same time, the writing and "exposition" style is really for a kids cartoons. Where the writers assumed the audience has a brain of 5 years old. Which makes me question one thing. WHO IS THIS SHOW ACTUALLY MADE FOR?!
And in this part they can just explain why Sage's mum who formerly use New Magic stop using it. Like they can literally explained any valid reason why Sage's mum prohibits Sage using the new magic despite she was using one herself. Like idk something might happened to her when she wield new magic that decides her to refuse using it any longer.
I'm insulted by this insert! Why must they feel that Sage HAS to be like everyone else, and use 'new magic'? Why couldn't they just make her enjoy old magic, because of it's nostalgic or simple use? Did they really have to push this?!
It would have been interesting to see Sage stick to her guns, they could have pushed a message that being unique is what matters-- But the writers wanted to make it political, so the message is simply "Old stuff bad, new stuff good".
@@BlackLightJack. Just like from what I’ve seen how the writers obviously show their own sexist true colors with how many of the male cast is treated and how it feels like forcing sex changes via transition magic with Snapdragon rather than letting him be comfortable in his own skin…
I imagine this could have been an interesting concept. As in, they don’t try to push for either magic; they just present both with their own set of strengths and weaknesses, and then let each character decide what works best. Like, maybe old magic could be an example of ‘proven’ way; stuff that hasn’t really changed a lot, but has always worked for what it has been used for. Downside could be that it doesn’t really evolve with time, so it might not always have what you’re looking for. New magic, meanwhile, is the more hypothesis-stage of magic experimentation. It’s a constantly evolving field with new spells getting introduced regularly, and it can therefore improve on both the old magic and itself. A downside with THAT could be that it’s not as reliable as old magic; that it has less chance of working due to them not having been able to replicate the results yet. It could create a reliability vs. efficiency dynamic; that could be a good theme for some interesting episodes.
@@goodmachines7743 Or, if they are hell bent on having the magic systems be political allegory, they should go whole hog. Make it so "Old magic" is more intimately taught within families leading to little innovation, but its consistent and has survived for eons. Whereas new magic is often considered the youth's magic as it is primarily used by younger generations. It can do much more, but is greatly unexplored so there is potential danger. And lastly, "new magic" can eventually become "old magic" if it exists for long enough. Typically two generations.
@@NotSpecialDude the problem is that the writers are just *not* good enough to make even that, they just make hamfisted messages at best without thinking about nuance or complexity
Translation: Sage: I don't know why, but being an alt E-girl feels so good. My trad mom would kill me if she knew I was "using new magic" Anise: "Your mother wasn't always so conservative. Aloe: "Bruh we are not talking about this" Anise: "Yeah no your mother went through a phase where she did drugs and went to hippie rallies. Ashamed of this, after a few years she went back to being 'conservative'."
Im literally Sage's mom. I dont use drug but im pretty rebellious or, you know, teens. Now im very traditional with tons of reasons. This isnt hypocrisy.
@@Vyansya I relate but in another way. When I was 12 I was obsessed with shows I shouldn't be watching like Orange is the New Black, gore animes and few ecchi animes (not that those type of media were bad, but I definitely shouldn't have been watching that). And I'm now 17 and I'm practically only consuming kid stuff (I returned to my Pokémon, Digimon, Yokai Watch, Disney Channel and My Little Pony lover era).
So the moral lesson here is...? When the older generation tries to pass its wisdom and help you avoid mistakes, feel free to shit on them because THEY made mistakes when they were young? Not the kind of message you would expect in a kid's show. It's like a twisted G.I.Joe PSA where they tell you, go ahead and play with that downed power line. You learn by doing!
It’s funny because later on a character uses a mix of old and new magic and it ends up working pretty well, feels like that would’ve been a better message that by combining the wisdom past generations have accumulated with new experimental and fresh ways of doing things it can end up creating something more then the sum of its parts. But knowing the writers that message was probably completely unintended
I think the point is a child wants to try new things and see for yourself but parents especially ones who hold traditions dear (conservative) and instead of letting the child see themselves, the parents think they're protecting them by preemptively telling them to stick to old magic, not realizing every generations goes through similar trials and discovery, and its important for young people to figure out themselves what they like. Just because the old guard turns away from it, doesn't mean that the new generation doesn't want to explore these ideas and ideologies and they certainly have a right to But yea, the show is written like garbo
@@MangoSmoothy Well I kind of feel like the point is "conservatives bad because we disagree" basically. The kind of people who wrote this seem like the type to hate everyone who disagrees with them. I'm not even old enough to vote so I don't care much about politics, but I'd say I agree generally more with conservatives. That doesn't mean I won't listen to the other side's points. Some people just can't figure out how to take constructive criticism.
Knowing one of the leading animators/writers openly stated her sexism and bigotry against the same demographics that are seen as comically evil and irredeemable in the show (namely, straight men, usually white men on top of that), this is practically given. They truly put politics and representation (they still do a shitty job at THAT) before writing and characters. This is one of the worst shows I’ve watched lol
I hope that if they are going to add another transman that he is going to be a piece of shit human, but ofc they don't wanna treat cismen the same as transmen. Because someone who is sexist is probably also transphobic
I'm not a big fan of the idea of representation and prefer the characters to be in harmony with the story, not with the political interests. However, this...is no representation, it's far worse...you know those edgy wattpad self insert stories you hear people meming about, where the protagonist, who is the writer's views are "right" and everyone who disagrees is evil and wants to kill babies, all all while the writer keeps describing in length how good of a person he is, why his mother who disagrees is the devil but with a different name and how everyone's either loves him or are jealous from him? Yeah that's what this is...this should have remained in the cursed lands of Tumbler where it belongs because even wattpad community won't stoop that low
Even ignoring the incredibly obvious political propaganda, the blue haired girl being ashamed of using old magic looks dumb. I mean, in the context of the show old and new magic are just different types of magic casting, what's the big deal of having anyone using old or new magic? It is as if someone in our world begins to feel ashamed of just knowing how to play a violin instead of an electric guitar or something like that...
@@deadumbreon2512 Yeah, if at least they explained what are the differences that make new magic better than the old one, maybe it would make some sense. But still, making someone having a crisis for sticking with old ways of doing something, just because it's old is just superficial and dumb drama.
But the mix of new and old magic is what stops it. So if anything they shockingly giving a good message, that both [political] sides should coexist to create something better for everyone.
@@federicopalacios7439 problem is you can say that both sides are needed but thats lost when it's more like saying we need both political sides and you notice one side is having more of its views being used and preached as the other has only a few of theirs. It's not a true we need both sides and more of a we should have both sides but we need way more of my side because I think so and think my side is right.
@@federicopalacios7439 See, that kind of narrative complexity is wasted on a show like this. As in, even if they did include a smart point in there, given their lackluster track record thus far, it sure feels more like they stumbled upon these things by accident… This show isn’t made by thinking people; it’s made by mindless drones.
“Your mom wasn’t always so conservative”. Uh conservative isn’t just limited to politics; it just means to uphold traditions. This show has the subtlety and nuance of a bleeding stomach ulcer
Anise and Aloe are so focused on calling Sage's mom a hypocrite that they forget to question WHY she stopped using new magic. I bet all our parents did something really crazy or new in their days too, realized it was dangerous or unnecessary, and afterwards they try to warn us to not repeat the same mistakes. Considering this show is hinting that new magic is hurting nature and creating Rot, maybe Sage's mom realized this and tried to encourage her daughter more on harmony and balance that the old magic is better at.
Well actually, Here's my Take: New Magic is So Easy to use, right? So anyone can do anything with it, right? What will happen when someone Overuse It and cause Extreme Dangers to the surroundings? Or if someone was to use it for Evil? For all we know, it Can Petrify an Entire City Block almost instantly at little to no effort making it The Instrument of The Devil! Something like this is Extremely Dangerous and shouldn't be treated lightly, yet *It Is*
You know, the fact the blue-haired mom tried both "old" and "new magic" and chose to stick with the old, actually makes her point stronger, since she gave a fair try to both types and decided that "old magic" was better...
Sage, your hat isn't _stupid._ Like the rest of your outfit, it's basic, bland and lacks any creativity - kind of like you as a character! So don't worry, it suits you perfectly 💖
@@bluubandette8871 I'm well aware of the numerous flaws this show has, but I LOVED her Halloween costume. Along with Amaryllis and Snapdragon, she looked great in that episode
what would have made this work. 1. Change it from conservative to traditional. 2. Make it so Sage is feeling a bit of FOMO seeing all the people at school use all this new magic that can basically do anything (it's like a major deus ex machina that they don't even refer back to.) And while She's not confident she'll be good at new magic, she finds a way to mix both old and new magic in her own way. cause the only thing the show gives us as a negative to old magic is "it has a cost but new magic is free!"
I sort of saw a bit of the ending in HGS and Sage sort of mixed new magic and old magic to beat the antagonist and that new magic drains the environment. I kinda wish it wasn't just "Old" and "New" magic, but rather just be the general term.
@@zerozero4101 that's true it would be better if they just used general terms of magic. i know the ending has the magic gets mixed with the teacher but i don't feel sage as a character made the mixture of magic her own. but then again it is this show soo *shrug* maybe it never could work with the way they built it.
I mean, conservatism is just the idea of holding up traditions. It doesn't just refer to political ideas. Still, this show has no concept of subtlety or nuance.
There's some holes in that logic there chief queef. 1: There is no Japanese dub, this wasn't really used for other societies in mind when it was made. 2: Majority of the writers know what that word means and in the context of literally anything. There ain't no living person saying "We gotta be conservative about nature" its usually "We gotta conserve nature" 3: There multiple ways of saying the same things making it apolitical "She wasn't always a hardass about this" "She didn't always had the moral high ground" "Your mom used to be really cool when she was doing new magic" This had 2+ years of development.
@@WhyYouMadBoi you're absolutely right. I was just saying that the term "conservative" has more than one meaning. There's all kinds of traditions, and this could have been a cool scene if the writers cared about their craft.
This could be a really good moment of characterization if "new" and "old" magic were actually defined outside of, "one involves a slightly different kind of phlebotinum power-source." You know, like how it's done in The Dragon Prince, AtLA, The Owl House, and so many other, better shows. Otherwise the choice between "old" and "new" magic is completely arbitrary.
You know what would have been a great twist? Uses new magic, finds out shes amazing at it, leagues above her friends with it. Then rejects it because she loves her family more and having a deeper understanding of it then her friends can point out it's flaws and why it would be bad for her to do. Saying that her family heritage means more to her then a quick and easy grab at power.
Knowing the Amish, this is a based message Don't respect anyone's home culture. Criticize, ridicule and deconstruct all cultures. Maybe one day we'll end up with a decent one
"Your mom wasn't always so conservative." ... Which makes me wonder. If her mom used to do New Magic, why did she stop? Was it, like, dangerous to the planet and so she stopped out of ethical concerns? Seriously harmed someone she cared about and it gave her PTSD or something? Very important question she should have asked.
Might be a bit of a boring answer but there are many people that tend to become more conservative as they age. What might be progressive once could end up being seen as conservative.
If I were writing for this show I would have made it so that new magic is somehow responsible for the rot that seems to be taking over the world, but it’s so easy and convenient to use that society has adopted new magic entirely and is now reliant upon it to keep their lives going.
@@randomduck8679 yeah and from that I would have the bad guys goal be to overthrow the current ruling power and bring old magic back in an effort to stop the rot. Give them some real depth and cause some drama between the main characters. Since Sage’s family mainly supports old magic she would be conflicted between supporting her family or her friends and the elf thyme would also have to choose between saving her forest with the aid of the bad guys or standing with her friends despite their allegiance to new magic and the academy.
When I watch shows like these, I start to understand the problem Tolkien had with allegory in his stories. He argued allegory forced the reader to see nothing but the writer's own view, and thus prevented them from immersing themselves in the story. If anything, I feel "HGS" is most indicative of a growing trend I notice in fiction (especially web-original stuff) that allegory is making a serious comeback, and I think fiction is going to be hurt to that end, discouraging critical thinking.
I believe allegory CAN inspire critical thinking. After all, if an allegory is a viewpoint from the author, if conveyed right, it could make you think about what it means, and then maybe develop your own understanding on both the story and your own way of thinking. But yeah… it has to be done in a way that isn’t this.
@@goodmachines7743 I think the OP means specifically pushing your own thoughts down the throat of your readers and expect them to go along with it. But I agree with you, if the writer is open-minded with certain thoughts and point of views and doesn't force the reader to agree with him and focuses on you know... writing a good story lol, THEN allegory is your friend
Fucking agreed. Example would be Watchmen. The original had nuance, it asked questions on heroism, the morality was grey and there wasn't just a good or bad guy. Now HBO's watchmen has the villains be evil white supremacists which makes the show less nuanced. It doesn't try to get to the root of racism and properly break down the ideology it just says "racism bad" which yeah no shit but that's not very insightful. Compare that to the original where it broke down what it means to be a hero. The governments influence on heroes, the morality of heroes, and and what really drives people to become a hero. It takes the idea and looks at it through multiple lenses to deconstruct it and show the complexity of it.
Personally, I don't think allegory is a bad thing but only if used in broad contexts or short tales (and even then, as a maybe and if it comes down to allegory or story, story comes first).
"Two lesbians take advantage of an emotionally vulnerable girl and convince her to try something she's uncomfortable with because of her traditional values" the video. Hmmm
So do they ever say WHY Sage's mom stopped using new magic? Like, you always hear people say things like this, "Your mom used to do this, your dad used to do that, your parents used to do what you did!" But it's never explained WHY the parents stopped doing those things. Sometimes, they have a pretty good reason for stopping. In the context of the show however, I'm sure Sage's mom didn't have *any* good reason to stop using new magic other than for her to serve as a political point for the writers.
I feel like they were supposed to explain more of this shit in a season 2 since it seems the show's creator seemed ambitious enough to have this last more than 13 episodes. but considering this show sucked really hard and garnered alot of negative responses, I highly doubt we'll ever see an answer.
@@Dekomata I just wonder what crunchyroll was thinking, they basically released a bootleg owl house Steven universe abomination to their *anime* site so not only would it have been hated by the cartoon community, but being released on a platform where the community isn’t interested in cartoons like this on that site was bound to get it hated hard
What do you expect? She married an out-of-place looking butch lesbian without questioning why [Anise] married [Aloe] to begin with, other than [Aloe] looks like how feminist lesbians & incels see women. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Anise is just Kate Leth's self-insert of who she wishes to be, and still hate men to the core.
@@keshiaanders6452 I’m fairly certain Anise is considered to be Kate Leth’s self insert. I’ve heard a few people compare her design to the writer, so it’s not too much of a stretch. I mean, the trans professor is literally the creator’s self insert and Rosemary is also a self insert of the creator before they transitioned.
We still need to teach the elf lady what “hypocritical” means. Yes sage should try out new things but also... why did the mom decide to go back to her old roots? There must’ve been something! Like people don’t just try out something new and better and then decide “meh yeah that’s it”. In most cases similar to this a person would probably just use both and blend the two.
I wish they'd explain their magic system better or at all like what specifically goes into the process of new magic and why old magic is viewed as inferior. From what little the show offers to that explanation I figured new magic is like a gun and old magic is like a bow and arrow. New magic's effects are instant while old magic takes skill and time. Though no one explains how new magic is made to have such effects and why it isn't considered old magic if you're making "ammo" for your "gun". and how the preparation of that ammo wouldn't be considered old magic.
Honestly I do find the idea of there being “old” and “new” magic being rather fascinating but the show flops over itself so much in worldbuilding (let’s not talk about its general writing) that it ends up never meaningfully explores that concept or even sow the seeds for it
As more and more time passes, the more I am convinced that the demographics of this cartoon are tumblr (or twitter) people That is why this program is so childish but so violent with very "specific" themes, it appeals to those people with an immature mentality but mired in "political issues", those people who spend their time watching "cartoons for children" (emphasized the quotation marks) that appeal to a "certain group". . . you know
i see this all the time, i feel like so many shows meant for adults are really just kids shows peppered with unnecessary violence out of the blue, to the point where there’s literally no depth at all. cussing and mature themes doesn’t make a show good or ‘deep’, it’s what they do with them and how the plot works with it- you can’t just throw stuff in and expect it to work without actually sewing it into the story itself
Let me guess: if HGS got more episodes it would probably have been revealed that Sage's father was the one who pushed her mother back into the old magic stuff. He is a white cishet male. So of course it would all be his fault.
@@bluubandette8871 One day, when the population stops being able to procreate they will blame straight men even if gays can not generate human :V **Sorry, this joke was homophobic too much**
Not really a fan of this show, but I am looking at this scene from an editor's perspective. I think this character's development should focus around blending old and new magic that makes something spectacular. It honors the old while embracing the new. Does the show detail the pros and cons, the dangers and or sacrifices of using old magic verses new magic? What importance does new magic have on Sage's life. Is she any good at magic period? If her mother did once use new magic, why did she stop? Was it dangerous? Was it family pressure? Are the old ways in danger of becoming extinct and she wanted to preserve it? Sure, young people buck tradition but as they grow older they rediscover traditions that they incorporate in their current belief system or use it to reevaluate what they currently believe.
Yeah it would be better if things were properly explained beyond superficial stuff like 'old magic is slow and lame, new magic is fast and cool'. I don't even know if they have a mana system or if magic is an inherited trait or if anyone can just learn to do it. I think Sage trying to discover WHY her mum ditched 'new magic' and Thyme knowing about the rot should lead to them teaming up and to them figuring out that 'new magic' does have a cost ie instead of the cost of mana from yourself it eats the mana of the world. Gives Thyme something to do besides brood and Sage can prove sometimes easier isn't always better.
Honestly that could’ve made for great and interesting messages and themes… unfortunately tye writing team just went with the lazy “old bad new good” without taking nuance into account
"She liked this new thing but not this new new thing, therefore hypocrite" That doesn't even make sense, is it hypocritical to like pokemon B&W when they were new but not Sword and shield when they're new? "Well you like this new thing so you have to like all new things" they focus so much in how "New" something is because newer is always better no matter the quality.
@@carlweeper7436 From what I've heard, this show was most likely finished multiple years ago but they went and released it now so that it could see the light of day before the Sony merger (it prolly would've been better if they just kept the show behind the tons of boxes in the closet)
I'm all for "Learning from the old and Embracing the new." mentality. Being stuck in the old ways and ignoring the present is a good way to get yourself gutted in the future. But I can also understand that change can be... scary. Not a lot of folks like to see things change, even if it is for the better.
There's also the fact that change for the sake of change isn't always good. Something being old isn't instantly bad and something being new isn't instantly good. Something being old isn't inherently a good reason to change it by itself.
@Logan Roof News I like how bigotry has a negative connotation as if having firm unwavering beliefs is a bad thing but yes your right nobody is scared.
true. there was always people of the old generations disliking "the new". Our grandparents were the new generations at some point, and their old generations complained about them too. Hell some people were against books at some point.
@@fluidwolf it’s sad that if this show was written better it could’ve really tackled the nuances of change and whether change is good or not using new and old magic, but sadly it was never meant to be
I hate how you can tell new magic and old magic were never going to be fleshed out or an interesting mechanic in the show’s universe and only existed for this moment. It’s honestly more sad when this message is actually really messed up, the girl who grew up in a traditional family is manipulated into thinking she’s lived a life without something and should not listen to her parental figures in favor of her new two influencers. This is like a teenager taking acid after being told her mom once smoke a cigarette so she’s just a hypocrite. This show is crazy.
God now that you say it, this sounds horrifying a teen getting manipulated by older ones to try something that’s experimental (ends up being highly dangerous in the end) just because their parents did it once before
Spoiler: The "new magic" ends up being the source of the blight that is killing the forest. So...extrapolating the thinly veiled allegory you come up with the idea that new magic (i.e. LGBT, modernity, insert your own idea) is the rot thats killing the forest (society) and magic. And that kiddies is why you do not try to push your narrow world view first and the story second. Otherwise you end up with unintended messages that may muddle or outright murder your intended message. Focus on the story and characters. The message will appear, as if from vapor, afterwards.
Yeah instead of having complexity the writers have wrote themselves into a corner because now the messages they’re sending don’t mix together at all properly
This is what I find the most amusing about how they wrote the conflict. They completely crossed the wires and by linking progressive teachings to decay and destruction, they made conservative viewpoints and practices sound like a better deal. The idea they were trying to convey falls flat on its face. If they decide to attempt a season 2 I fully expect them to retcon it.
*Rewriting* Anise: and if your mom don't like it, we can try to talk to her Aloe: if atleast we knew what happened in the past... *gasps* Anise: Aloe! Aloe: sorry... Sage: past? Anise: listen Sage, your mother wasn't always so traditional. During our younger years, she decided to give a try on New Magic, but then she just stopped and told us to never use New Magic again. We don't know why she just decided to stop and everytime that we asked, she would get really nervous and try to change topics.
You know, in concept I like the idea of a magic system being used to parallel our world, like using Old Magic vs New Magic, but... I can't explain why exactly, but... The way this show is doing it, makes it feel a little, I don't know, forced? unnatural? Like it doesn't quite fit, something is out of place
Its political propoganda, thats why. It can be compared to conservatism and the way progressivism is an "improvement" to it and that certain people are stuck on the old ways because it worked for them. The comparison is sloppy and flawed though, and her mother's reason for using old magic is honestly justified because she tried new magic and didn't like that. That's perfectly understandable, and its also understandable that she wishes to pass it on her daughter cause her experience with it wasn't good at all. Its just virtue narcissism. What's wrong with people enjoying conservative ways? Whats good about falling in line and accepting new thinking? We're all fucking individuals and trying to paint the old ways as "wrong" or "outdated" paints a discriminatory light on those who follow those values.
It could be used like how there are low tech/no tech communities and people vs high tech communities and people ie how you have farmers who farm using oxen and horses to plough the fields and grow crops while other farmers use machines.
@@hjrujana @Pie-Lord See, now, I like these ideas here, I think we could even put them together, these are fun, good ideas with great potential OldScarecrow, I really like the inclusion of how new magic is not perfect, and also has it's cons, 10/10 And you know what Pie-Lord, your ideas and comparisons are giving me all these cute ideas, and just, I really enjoy your analogy, 10/10
So... "old magic" is "conservative", which means... witch hat. And "new magic" is "progressive", which means... a punked out look with a nose ring? That's how her mom had a "progressive" phase? What did this explain to us, exactly?
0:22 Okay, all joking aside, this statement is extremely, extremely harmful to adolescents and young kids. It's basically telling kids, "I'm getting bullied and pressured to the point of changing something about myself." I'm glad kids aren't watching this show (or anyone, for that matter).
I really like how they go down the “your mother tried new magic before coming to the conclusion new magic shouldn’t be used” as if it’s a counter to not using new magic.
No, what is hypocritical is telling a young girl she is wrong for using old magic and trying to change her, yet telling the femboy that its okay to be yourself and he doesn't have to change. And also for putting her mother down for trying new magic but finding it wasn't right for her so she went back to the old way. Like, what else do they want from her? Reminds me a lot of the left ideology, its either their way or you're wrong. Period.
@Ume Sama I mean, if you read the whole thing you would realize I just did make a legit argument about this scene. Not my fault you have tunnel vision. But since you apparently need me to explain more thoroughly, this type of mindset does coincide a lot with the left ideology. Considering the people who wrote the show are clearly left leaning since the idea of conservatism (usually equating to the right wing aka "old magic" in this shows terminology) is frowned upon as they so openly stated in this clip. "Your mother wasn't always so conservative". Its a parallel to both political parties. The right = old magic The left = new magic Its an obvious attempt at conversion.
@@wheelshoe I meant it was an obvious attempt at conversion on Sage in the show. Not right winged people. And I didn't say all leftists had to agree with it, but that many leftists do have this ideology hence why this is even a thing in the first place. You hardly ever hear about this sort of thing on the right.
Tried to rewrite this scene Alert / my English isn't the best "She's repeating her mum past ahh" "Your mum was really insecure when she was young, I mean hold on" "She doesn't like bringing that" "She needs to learn from others experiences , maybe then she won't have a mid life crisis at 14 over magic types" "Not funny" "So when I was still in witch country your mum went through a phase where she rejected old magic ,new magic was all the hype back then so I thought it was cool " " She realised few years later that she liked old magic better" " Turns out she was embarrassed to use old magic, but She grow as a person and stopped caring about what others think and so do you .. The kind of magic you use doesn't matter as long as it work for you got it . Sage - yeah maybe it doesn't matter
The amount of retcon in a single season is enough to tell they just dont know how to make a story. I like Sage and hate what was made there, by her and her Mom. Never expected that witness such a waste could be painful.
Would be cool to have a character that’s different from the others by using old magic. Would add something interesting to her character and surprise people with how awesome it is
The writers: and she THROWS her hat at the ground with FORCE-- The animators: *draw the hat softly landing on the ground with a soft paff noise* It would be comical but this is meant to be taken seriously???
I really hate the push of that lesbian couple in this show too. Notice how they zoom in on the picture of them unnecessarily just so you KNOW they're a couple. Now I'm not against LGTBQ+ couples at all but when they're done like this, it shows they're mainly doing it for points. Shows like The Owl House or the She-Ra reboot did LGTBQ+ couples amazingly! Why? Because they treated it like a normal couple and not shoving it in your face every two seconds because "omg two women as couplez?!??!? Isn't that so amazing and make us great people!!!"
Honestly using lgbtq+ couples like this is more of a problem rampant in the animation industry as a whole, but yeah the way it’s done here is so forced and frankly feels unneeded
Fun fact: 98% of people who say they are "liberals"/"conservatives" don't even know what those words mean, they just wanna use it because it makes it easier to blame others and put yourself on a higher pedestall
Hell, I've seen lesbian couples that feel WAY more human than Anise and Aloe despite not being human! (I of course refer to Ruby and Sapphire, and Lizbert and Eggabell.)
I dunno. New magic is strongly implied to be responsible for the rot and there's a few scenes focusing on combining old and new magic where doing so is shown to be very effective. You might be looking into that line too hard. That doesn't mean it's not a metaphor for something though.
Her mom isn't a hypocrite, her mom tried new magic and something happend for her to not use it anymore and is teaching her daughter to not do it either. It's pretty much parents did something when they were younger and regretted it and don't want their kids to do the same thing
The point they should take from this is not "why was your mom once rebellious?" The point you should take away from this is: "why is your mom *no longer* rebellious, what happened that made her change lifestyle?"
As someone who was genuinely curious what Old and New Magic is because it's been 3 episodes, Episode 4 frustrated me immensely because Sage's been acting like seeing New Magic with her naked eyes will make her family disown her so when the lesbians showed the truth about her mom I was pissed af because it looks like New Magic isn't some forbidden magical art it's an IDEOLOGY aka LESBIANISM. "Your mom deviated." And at that point I was all "Shut the fuck up" and wrote my own magic system for my rewrite. It's so infuriating because the show has some good ideas but the writers are so obsessed with writing lesbianisms and the "Old is Bad. New and the absence of consequence is ALWAYS Good" rhetoric that they're willing to throw the worldbuilding away.
If anyone in this show is a hypocrite, it's the teachers at High Guardian Academy. Not only do they exclusively teach new magic, despite seeing that it's harmful, but they also knowingly let the children into life-threatening situations, knowing that they will probably die, despite that going against what being a guardian (whatever that is) stands for.
There's a very interesting kind of people that can be found anywhere in the political spectrum, they make "being right" their entire life goal. They're not really interested in standing for what they think it's right, they just wanna BE right. The people involved in this show are just like that. They don't wanna talk about LGBT+ lives, they don't wanna inspire empathy and love, they just wanna "own" whoever disagrees with them. That's just sad, man. They spend the entire show reinforcing the same gender stereotypes they try so hard to break, snapdragon gender arc is the biggest proof. so just because he's kinder and more empathetic than his father that means he's a mtf person? just because sage's mom decided to go back to being "conservative" she's being repressed and forced to be this way? this is so fucking dumb omg this show should be called Twitter: the animation
If this wasn't just one of the author's self-insert persecution complex this might actually be a good hook: if the mother used to practice this type of magic and then not only stopped but got hostile to it, *there might be a good reason for it.*. They actually made it so that the mother can't look like some sort of bigot with prejudices!
Sofia the First already did this plot better, where Lucinda wants to be a good witch, but her mom is an evil witch, and she's afraid of what would happen if she founds out. In the end, Lucinda's mom accepted that while she doesn't agree with Lucinda's new life style, she wouldn't stop her from doing what makes her happy ("but I hope it's just a phase"). I think they did it way better, And instead of being some oddly specific shit, it's applicable to lots of things
Yeah but why did her mom stop using new magic? If she tried it and deemed it to be too dangerous, then she's not a hypocrite, just cautious and scared for her daughter to do something hurtful too. (Like hurting the water dragon, hint, hint) If she just wants to use old magic to be hip or something and pretend she never used it, then yes, she's a hypocrite. Context matters, Cousin Anise.
The main reason why I hated Sage and her mother because all I see in the “anime”that the mother just wanted her to do the “old” way, cause they didn’t explain it properly and it’s impossible for me to understand the magic system because the writing is so bad.
Why would the mom want to talk about a period in her life that runs counter to her current beliefs? Maybe she should’ve told her daughter about why she thinks new magic sucks, but she’s not a monster for not talking about her rebellious teenage years
This whole situation feels like an Amish/Mennonite girl being forced to conform to aspects of mainstream culture that conflict with her own upbringing and ideals. This is why people of those communities prefer to stay in their communities.
What bothers me the most about this storyline is that they never go into why her mom went back to old magic. That seems like something important to bring up. It could have explained why she forces her family to stay with old practices. Just one of the multiple reasons I wish this show could be remade.
By the end of the show the message is totally the opposite because it’s revealed New Magic is evil and killing the planet while Old Magic is actually environmentally beneficial. They just shot themselves in the foot.
Now the questions the series should have asked which could have really helped the series: Why did Sage's mom move from old magic to new magic? Why did she go back to old magic? Is there something about the new magic that the students aren't being told? Why is the teresphere(not sure how to spell that) important and why does it activate when Sage touches it and ONLY Sage? Is the teresphere trying to tell Sage something? What is there about old magic that is so unlikable?
I have four things to say about this scene and the show in general: 1) the rebel mother stereotype was supposed to be about that she was rebel by the standars of her time not about been rebel by the standars of the actual time and this explain why she was not rebel in the actual days. 2) subtlety is not existent in the show in general and in this scene in particular,subtlety is importand because without it your message feels more like an accusation based in a stereotype that a genuine critic about a situation 3) is funny how the crew behind that tries to say that the middle age people especially the parents are bad because they obligates young people to thinks like them but the crew literally thinks that they form of thinking is the only true 4) they dont even explain what is the diffence between old and new magic and that only cotributes that the audience sees that metafore about the two types of magic is just a social propaganda not a real thing
Basically "your mom wasn't always a hardline heterosexual, she experimented around in college with other girls, but later pretended it never happened "
Maturity is when you do something stupid in your youth and as you grow older you teach younger inexperienced people not to do it because you know how bad it is. Hypocrisy is when you do something and tell others not to do it. If theres one thing I hate about this scene its the fact that nobody asks why her mom stopped using the sphere's in the first place its almost as if the writers knew the answer would demolish their argument.
*Intense Snoring* Y'know last I checked, I've NEVER come across anime that talks about modern day American politics, especially in a medieval like era. (Remember that the cast said that this series has unique plot, but it's literally just political agendas made by toxic feminists)
Wikipedia had the nerve to say this series was review-bombed by hate groups and internet trolls. I take it the people who worked on the High Guardian Spice page didn't try to actually research what people had to really say about this series. Especially those from the groups this series was meant to cater to. And their ultimate displeasure at what came about.
Its not religion. its Sustainability. Sage's mom uses slower, harder magic and plants trees after any major spell, instead of blasting out spells in one second and damaging the planet. New magic is taking a plane to go to another city. Old magic is Is taking a train powered by renewables. slower, sure, but better for the planet.
This is like something I saw that was a Christian conservative aka her mom talking to a atheist liberal aka her cousin talking about indoctrination or what ever and this is like that but more complicated
Ok.....so they made this scene to show that this cartoon tells you that you cant be yourself. That you need other people to decide that for you. "Lets be progressive by saying that you should be the same as everyone else"
I think the sad part about this is that, concept wise, this is a interesting plot line, having a character who has been forced to live a strictly old-fashioned style and trying to adjust to more modern methods could've been a creative way to go about character development whilst also teaching audience members the importance of change. However, due to the writers preference to TELL us these things instead of show, the whole bit just falls flat on it's face, (just like a lot of other character plots this show tries and fails to introduce) 😔
This would be so much better if the reveal was that new magic took energy from the earth and was slowly killing it, something many people refused to believe. I mean it’s still ham-fisted, but it works better
One thing I like about anime stories is the "never giving up" attitude of an underdog character. Sage is clearly written as an underdog character with her being made fun of at school and anxiety over her old magic (she's kinda like Lee from Naruto). So wouldn't it be better if she continued to hone her skills in old magic and prove to everyone that she can be just as capable to be a guardian with it like the ones who practice new magic? Besides, new magic seems a bit lazy for me. I've seen some clips of characters using new magic like freaking crutches. Like Sage's cousin making a portal to travel from her kitchen to her dining room or that crazy witch teacher bragging to Sage about how new magic is better than old magic but at the same time, her terra sphere runs out of juice and immediately replaces it with another one (Which means not only is it lazy, it's also only temporary and it's expensive).
Here’s the thing, I actually like the concept behind this allegory. However, there are two major problems: One, it puts the allegory before the story. There are multiple different ways that they could have used it better. Having some kind of conflict between old magic and new magic users that causes the group to get fractured, giving Sage a legitimate character arc about learning about how good new magic is and the problems it can cause, while also using the conflict to flesh out the magic system. Or literally anything that turns the allegory into an actual story. (Or maybe it did, but poorly. I have not actually seen the show. I don’t even have a Crunchyroll subscription and I don’t feel like getting one just to watch this show.) It’s worse than Supergirl (at least the last 5 seasons). At least *that* show tried to turn it’s allegories into stories, even if they weren’t always entertaining. Two, the allegory isn’t even communicated properly. No joke, when clips started getting shared around on TH-cam, I legit thought that it was intended to be a “nature vs technology” story, given the way they all talk about old and new magic, and the general personality of Sage, our resident old magic user. It took me months of watching these clips for me to realize that *this* is what it was going for, because again, it feels the need to put saying “we’re right, you’re wrong” in any way they can over telling a good story. And this is coming from a guy that agrees with the politics that seem to be coming from this show.
A young, naiive, impressionable girl is forced into old practices and mentalities, and she seems really interested in the new ways of modern life. She's scared of dabbling in these new progressive acts because her mom doesn't want her to, but her lesbian family members step in, and help her get into it, so now she loves it.
What an incredibly specific scenario... huh....
maybe if they went in 'that' direction the show would be less of a fuck up
However it's realistic. In any generation that's always been the case. There are things that I'm more progressive on than most of my family. Look at rock and roll, the older generation hated it called it devil music but the younger generation loved it
Hmm yes. take the advice of random individuals based on what they like fucking instead of the EVIL parents that totally just want you to live a monotonous life
@@squeaky1963 parents who they admitted tried it already and decided not to continue but they didn’t bother asking her mom why she doesn’t want her to learn they just do it without discussing yup that always turns out well
Sounds like the plot to a specific type of genre...
The Lord of the Rings has better political allegory and Tolkien hated allegory.
i think you need to remember that lord of the rings is a pretty fucking far comparison to make to a show like this
@@yoot3008 yeah for many reasons, for example, Lord of The Rings is good
The SW prequels had better political allegories as it’s a basis for world building. It failed in HGS because it’s just little self inserts that have no pay offs and are only mentioned briefly
Lord of the Rings has better political allegory because it doesn't try to be and the focus on the story IS the story, Tolkien never wanted to spoon feed you his world-view like C.S. Lewis did. Instead he built a world and sprinkled his world view into it, but left it open enough for you to explore and make your own decisions. That's why Tolkien's stories are absolutely timeless and used more or less as the basis for all fantasy.
High Guardian Spice is wish fulfilment for a group of blue haired tumblrites, it's not written to be timeless, it doesn't want to tell you a good story, and it CERTAINLY doesn't want you forming your own opinions. HGS is basically a high budget Sonichu, and nobody will convince me otherwise.
@@GreenTomas2372 star wars has one of the worst world buildings I had ever seen, buy at least the main plot is interesting.
The mom isn't being a hypocrite. Being a recovering drug addict and telling your child not to be one isn't hypocrisy. Now if she used one when Sage wasn't around, that's hypocrisy.
Well here's the thing...you can't argue with someone who twists the facts and play word games, who's purpose from an argument is not to reach a unanimous truth but to be the victor no matter the case.
Well, the elf girl is just like these progressive people. Don't know the meaning of some words and still use them to insult others.
Yes. I mean, she gave both magic kinds a fair try, and decided based on her own experience that the old ways were better...
@@DonVigaDeFierro It's incredibly weird they made this parallel considering how new magic is destroying the environment.
What was the thing that made her switch back? It seems they never asked that question themselves.
She was raised on 'old magic', so maybe she feels right using it. They don't explain WHY Sage has to learn 'new magic'. They just tell her that she should just do it. They never ask her what her personal viewpoint on the matter is, or whether she wants to learn it because she wants to or because she feels pressure to do so because she gets bullied for using 'old magic'. They just cast aspersions on Sage's mother out of nowhere and we're just supposed to take that as them being in the right. What a load of shit.
Exactly what annoys me so much. Not only is it a bad real-life insert, They don't even do anything interesting with the fact that it's just a political metaphor. They just say "Old stuff bad, new stuff good" it's so pathetically 1-dimensional.
seems like arguments people use for "new magic" irl as well lmao
@@BlackLightJack. Not only that, but they're basically pressuring a character to change a part of who she is because...it's new, I guess? Very progressive in a show that seems to tout itself as forward thinking and open minded, but also tells the femboy that he doesn't have to be who others expect him to be. Mixed messaging much?
i watched the show however they never really explain why she doesn't like using it other than it takes from nature or something ang the only real argument for new magic is that well... its new and easier to use which is debatable if it's safe as it misfired and killed a sea dragon however old magic is kinds obsolete in there world my one major gripe with the character of sage is that when her view points are challenged about the fact that it kinda useless in their current society she got mad at time for saying she was taking long... because she was..... both ways of magic just kinda suck and im mad it took a whole show for the concept of simply taking the best from both came up
You wanna lose your mind a little more? XD Later on its hinted 'NEW MAGIC' is what is behind the corruption or 'rot' as they call it. So....what the hell is that supposed to mean with our metaphor?! Keep in mind the trans character is using new magic to stay in their male form, but, new magic is behind the corruption so....WTF show?!
This entire show is one giant political insert cluster. This wasn’t made with the idea of telling a legitimate story, it was made with the idea of catering to a very specific demographic. Which I would be more understanding of if they did anything interesting or unique with it, but the fact of the matter is they just don’t here. Nothing about this feels unique to their world and certainly nothing about it is creative.
UPDATE: I think this comment says it enough, but just because I want my hunk of meat after suffering 7 episodes of this thing, I do genuinely consider it one of the worst pieces of media I've ever experienced. Nothing has ever come close to the levels of failure this show reaches. It genuinely does nothing right, and a part of me believes the show runners did that on purpose for whatever reason.
It's just propaganda, actual storytelling provides an escape from reality and let's you to create entire world's where everything is the opposite of our daily lives, meanwhile Propaganda is exactly what you said right there, it's an entire fake argument on why the supporting side is good and anything else isn't
All throughout the series it's the only thing they do, they give things they dont like in actuality something that is easy to hate in order to prove their point without actually elaborating on why their side is a good one
Honestly, I wished companies could see through these shams they call "storytelling" nowadays, actual storytelling doesn't favor any real parties or movements
@@nutsandbolts1264 the would rather cater for views then actually make a good story and have am actual good message, with how things work is as you said with the propaganda, one side will tell you they are good well making a straw man for the opposition and tell you to never ever ask them why they do what they do or think what they think.
When you raise people to never question and only listen to your side you create a group that are easy to control and manipulate.
And thats why this show doesn't dive in to asking the mother why because they would need to make her side understandable which will make kids open minded amd you can't have that.
As part of the demographic, I'll skip this one.
They are smart actually, if you make a woke show/cartoon there will be people watching and defending it regardless of how bad it is.
@@Ordep_Aviaras As a matter of fact it's the opposite, they made a show that they thought appealed to the vast majority of users only to realize not everyone in the internet is like them
Sage's old magic is so much cooler than new magic tho, its honestly OP, she should really embrace it rather than listen to what everyone else thinks. This is really counter intuitive to fantasy writing.
The 'new magic' Is what's causing the corruption on this world and It's being used to satisfy selfish desires and deforming and twisting reality to make It fit into your personal delusions.
@@davidfrancisco3502 also since there are fantasy classes
The rogue/thief class would be very powerful just steal it and use it against them for absolutely no cost
I think she should use both.
@@davidfrancisco3502 Kinda weird considering writters are woke, don't they think people can connect the dots and think "new magic=progressives, since both corrupt the world"
A very poor choice in terms of writting on their part
More like they should revamp the new magic and old magic concept or basically re-write the whole concept of it honestly. Like how new magic are convenient,easy to use but less powerful and limited while old magic being more powerful and limitless while harder to master and inconvenient at times. That way it is one step direction to have better writing. And don't forget to have Sage experience the fatal risk of new magic so that she can understand why her mum didn't let her or prohibited her from using it. Even Boruto they show us why ninjutsu is way stronger than ninja tools and even show an episode where Inojin try to cut corner on his drawing jutsu by simply printing out his drawing and activate them whenever he wants only to find later on that his jutsu's from the printing failed to work.
You know the saying "don't knock it till you tried it"?
Her mom tried it
She didn't like it
She knocked it
She's not a hypocrite. She speaking from her own experience.
Maybe she's not being a great communicator and hasn't told her (14 year old daughter, btw) the reason why she stopped using that kind of magic, but you're right, she's not hypocritical
Well no, that would only be the case if she said she was speaking from experience, but Sage never even knew she'd dabbled.
@@seekingabsolution1907 Maybe she didn't want to talk about it because it brings back memory? It makes sense that She 'hates' New Magic by Sage's words if that's the case. Few would be able to talk about their past trauma to their children and chose to just steer those children in the direction that they deemed right by experience
It's really the simple fact that they never explain WHY she stopped using new magic that makes this scene so attrocious.
There has to be a reason she stopped, and they just choose to ignore that.
@@rachelciel3330 If that really is the case, I'd imagine it's because her New Magic got out of control and caused some...dire accidents (as Sage would later do to the Scypith).
Thoughts like that make me wish that Old and New were nothing more than a parallel to manual effort and advanced tech.
Subtlety is a lost art. Truly. If they'd used the word "traditional", we would've understood without the slap in the face. Someone else reviewed this scene, and the best comment I saw for the video was this, "I think the better question here is *why did she stop being rebellious*."
That is the greatest 1st question a made after seeing this scene.
And also, why did "new magic" somehow become almost synonymous with present day butch lesbian fashion and punk culture? It's not "punk" or rebellious if EVERYONE is doing it so casually!
Can't have that, if they do that then that means they will encourage kids to take in both sides of a political argument and get a better understanding of why both do what they do.
Can't control kids if they are free thinking don't be silly!
My thoughts exactly. I thought there was going to be some twist about New Magic being tied to that weird tree rot or something. I thought the mom had gotten into Nu-Magic, realized how fucked it is, and went back to the traditional (implied to be more in line with nature) magic.
But I had given the show far too much credit
@@Unclaimed_Username gotta love how the same teacher who ridiculed the girl for using old magic turns around after an accident involving new magic/nu-magic and tells her, "it's ease and effectiveness hides how uncontrollable it is." BRUH WHO MADE THIS IDIOT A TEACHER?!
"Your mom used to be cool, but now she's lame, don't ask why." That's the only message I'm getting from this spiel.
I would think the reason that her mom gave up New Magic would be a PRETTY IMPORTANT DETAIL, but I guess agendas are more important than well-thought-out storytelling.
To be fair, it could have been the start of something that would get explored further in later episodes, and maybe they just don’t know her reasoning…
But if they do, then this would probably be a good time to tell her, seeing how this could be an important character developing moment…
@@goodmachines7743 if it was meant to be something we find out later, we would have some sort of clue... A pensive scene, something to make it seem like there is something beyond what we're being told...
So far, we only see one side of the argument
I wouldn’t mind this as much if they bothered to explain WHY Sage’s mother despises new magic and reverted back to using old magic. Like, did she hurt someone in a way that involved new magic? Did someone hurt her in a way that involved new magic? We don’t know, cuz this is so poorly written-
Who stopped you contuining
They do explain, and it absolutely murders the message they tried to push here
@@t.r2603 oh really? What’s the explanation, I can’t find it anywhere-
@@frootsnacc6790 Its heavily implied that new magic is the source of the blight that is spreading across the magical forest . Im not sure what message its trying to push aside from some kind of generic climate change/ pollution. Therefore, it isn't to far a stretch that maybe the mom found out new magic is literally killing everything or "sensed a disturbance in nature" (at least if the writers were competent) and opted back to tradition.
I mean the whole shows lore is just one giant IOU letter that raises so many questions and answers none. What even is magic? Is there a God that owns it or is it enviromental/dimensional?
They pulled this plot from Little Witch Academia, except there its Magic vs. Technology rather than New Magic V. Old magic.
@@t.r2603
so basically New Magic vs Old Magic is *actually* a metaphor for climate change and New Magic is corporatist climate denialism and Old Magic is people who actually care about the future of the world
The funny part is, I don't doubt that this is what they were going for. But they still weirdly tried retcon it later by making Caraway use the shitty slow old magic WITH new magic for no reason.
They just didn't know what they wanted to do with it and had a different idea each episode.
It's like:
This is a good idea.
"Can you make it better or at least make it make sense?"
Why?
Thats what happens when your main focus is on shoving politics on kids and focusing on trying to be so progressive you do the opposite.
There's no focus on plot or good storytelling, only how much crap can they cram in to show how "progressive" they are.
@@keiranleeoates The funny thing is, this is not a kids cartoons.
Because later, They showed violence and blood. And some minor swearing.
But at the same time, the writing and "exposition" style is really for a kids cartoons. Where the writers assumed the audience has a brain of 5 years old.
Which makes me question one thing.
WHO IS THIS SHOW ACTUALLY MADE FOR?!
I doubt it, the advertising and promos were all about how "woke" they were. It was political to begin with.
And in this part they can just explain why Sage's mum who formerly use New Magic stop using it. Like they can literally explained any valid reason why Sage's mum prohibits Sage using the new magic despite she was using one herself. Like idk something might happened to her when she wield new magic that decides her to refuse using it any longer.
I'm insulted by this insert! Why must they feel that Sage HAS to be like everyone else, and use 'new magic'? Why couldn't they just make her enjoy old magic, because of it's nostalgic or simple use? Did they really have to push this?!
It would have been interesting to see Sage stick to her guns, they could have pushed a message that being unique is what matters-- But the writers wanted to make it political, so the message is simply "Old stuff bad, new stuff good".
@@BlackLightJack. Just like from what I’ve seen how the writers obviously show their own sexist true colors with how many of the male cast is treated and how it feels like forcing sex changes via transition magic with Snapdragon rather than letting him be comfortable in his own skin…
I imagine this could have been an interesting concept. As in, they don’t try to push for either magic; they just present both with their own set of strengths and weaknesses, and then let each character decide what works best.
Like, maybe old magic could be an example of ‘proven’ way; stuff that hasn’t really changed a lot, but has always worked for what it has been used for. Downside could be that it doesn’t really evolve with time, so it might not always have what you’re looking for.
New magic, meanwhile, is the more hypothesis-stage of magic experimentation. It’s a constantly evolving field with new spells getting introduced regularly, and it can therefore improve on both the old magic and itself.
A downside with THAT could be that it’s not as reliable as old magic; that it has less chance of working due to them not having been able to replicate the results yet.
It could create a reliability vs. efficiency dynamic; that could be a good theme for some interesting episodes.
@@goodmachines7743 Or, if they are hell bent on having the magic systems be political allegory, they should go whole hog.
Make it so "Old magic" is more intimately taught within families leading to little innovation, but its consistent and has survived for eons. Whereas new magic is often considered the youth's magic as it is primarily used by younger generations. It can do much more, but is greatly unexplored so there is potential danger.
And lastly, "new magic" can eventually become "old magic" if it exists for long enough. Typically two generations.
@@NotSpecialDude the problem is that the writers are just *not* good enough to make even that, they just make hamfisted messages at best without thinking about nuance or complexity
Translation:
Sage: I don't know why, but being an alt E-girl feels so good. My trad mom would kill me if she knew I was "using new magic"
Anise: "Your mother wasn't always so conservative.
Aloe: "Bruh we are not talking about this"
Anise: "Yeah no your mother went through a phase where she did drugs and went to hippie rallies. Ashamed of this, after a few years she went back to being 'conservative'."
Im literally Sage's mom. I dont use drug but im pretty rebellious or, you know, teens. Now im very traditional with tons of reasons. This isnt hypocrisy.
@@Vyansya I relate but in another way. When I was 12 I was obsessed with shows I shouldn't be watching like Orange is the New Black, gore animes and few ecchi animes (not that those type of media were bad, but I definitely shouldn't have been watching that). And I'm now 17 and I'm practically only consuming kid stuff (I returned to my Pokémon, Digimon, Yokai Watch, Disney Channel and My Little Pony lover era).
So the moral lesson here is...?
When the older generation tries to pass its wisdom and help you avoid mistakes, feel free to shit on them because THEY made mistakes when they were young? Not the kind of message you would expect in a kid's show. It's like a twisted G.I.Joe PSA where they tell you, go ahead and play with that downed power line. You learn by doing!
It’s funny because later on a character uses a mix of old and new magic and it ends up working pretty well, feels like that would’ve been a better message that by combining the wisdom past generations have accumulated with new experimental and fresh ways of doing things it can end up creating something more then the sum of its parts. But knowing the writers that message was probably completely unintended
Funny thing is, this isn’t a kids show. This is intended for grown adults
I think the point is a child wants to try new things and see for yourself but parents especially ones who hold traditions dear (conservative) and instead of letting the child see themselves, the parents think they're protecting them by preemptively telling them to stick to old magic, not realizing every generations goes through similar trials and discovery, and its important for young people to figure out themselves what they like. Just because the old guard turns away from it, doesn't mean that the new generation doesn't want to explore these ideas and ideologies and they certainly have a right to
But yea, the show is written like garbo
@@MangoSmoothy Well I kind of feel like the point is "conservatives bad because we disagree" basically. The kind of people who wrote this seem like the type to hate everyone who disagrees with them. I'm not even old enough to vote so I don't care much about politics, but I'd say I agree generally more with conservatives. That doesn't mean I won't listen to the other side's points. Some people just can't figure out how to take constructive criticism.
@@kny.heartzThat’s even worse!
Knowing one of the leading animators/writers openly stated her sexism and bigotry against the same demographics that are seen as comically evil and irredeemable in the show (namely, straight men, usually white men on top of that), this is practically given. They truly put politics and representation (they still do a shitty job at THAT) before writing and characters. This is one of the worst shows I’ve watched lol
I hope that if they are going to add another transman that he is going to be a piece of shit human, but ofc they don't wanna treat cismen the same as transmen. Because someone who is sexist is probably also transphobic
There is a lot of leftist politics in this show
I'm a straight white man. MHWAHWAHWA!!!
I'm soooooo evil!!! 😈
its like sections of the body black latina and colombiana she its only bi but for extra plot armor also lesbian
I'm not a big fan of the idea of representation and prefer the characters to be in harmony with the story, not with the political interests. However, this...is no representation, it's far worse...you know those edgy wattpad self insert stories you hear people meming about, where the protagonist, who is the writer's views are "right" and everyone who disagrees is evil and wants to kill babies, all all while the writer keeps describing in length how good of a person he is, why his mother who disagrees is the devil but with a different name and how everyone's either loves him or are jealous from him? Yeah that's what this is...this should have remained in the cursed lands of Tumbler where it belongs because even wattpad community won't stoop that low
Even ignoring the incredibly obvious political propaganda, the blue haired girl being ashamed of using old magic looks dumb. I mean, in the context of the show old and new magic are just different types of magic casting, what's the big deal of having anyone using old or new magic? It is as if someone in our world begins to feel ashamed of just knowing how to play a violin instead of an electric guitar or something like that...
Being straight is for boomers, gay is the new trend
They dont even explain the differences or why is better the new one when it seems like old magic is better in every aspect
@@deadumbreon2512 Yeah, if at least they explained what are the differences that make new magic better than the old one, maybe it would make some sense. But still, making someone having a crisis for sticking with old ways of doing something, just because it's old is just superficial and dumb drama.
@@ocurimi being gay is for zoomers, it's time for the -smbdynctldmz- to step in.
@@somerandomguyontheinternett I see you're one of my people
And in the ultimate irony and furthers the political hypocrisy. New magic is responsible for the crisis with the rot.
But the mix of new and old magic is what stops it. So if anything they shockingly giving a good message, that both [political] sides should coexist to create something better for everyone.
@@federicopalacios7439 good messages does not excuse poor storytelling sadly.
@@federicopalacios7439 problem is you can say that both sides are needed but thats lost when it's more like saying we need both political sides and you notice one side is having more of its views being used and preached as the other has only a few of theirs.
It's not a true we need both sides and more of a we should have both sides but we need way more of my side because I think so and think my side is right.
And the new magic Is only used to satisfy selfish desires and warping reality to make It fit into your personal delusions.
@@federicopalacios7439 See, that kind of narrative complexity is wasted on a show like this. As in, even if they did include a smart point in there, given their lackluster track record thus far, it sure feels more like they stumbled upon these things by accident…
This show isn’t made by thinking people; it’s made by mindless drones.
“Your mom wasn’t always so conservative”. Uh conservative isn’t just limited to politics; it just means to uphold traditions. This show has the subtlety and nuance of a bleeding stomach ulcer
I completely agree. Also nice way to describe the show lmao
Spot on
This is why America's losing their traditions over oppressed liberals
@@bluubandette8871 Because... Of this show? What?
@@bluubandette8871 This is only a byproduct of that, not the one tha's causing it.
Anise and Aloe are so focused on calling Sage's mom a hypocrite that they forget to question WHY she stopped using new magic.
I bet all our parents did something really crazy or new in their days too, realized it was dangerous or unnecessary, and afterwards they try to warn us to not repeat the same mistakes.
Considering this show is hinting that new magic is hurting nature and creating Rot, maybe Sage's mom realized this and tried to encourage her daughter more on harmony and balance that the old magic is better at.
Well actually, Here's my Take:
New Magic is So Easy to use, right? So anyone can do anything with it, right?
What will happen when someone Overuse It and cause Extreme Dangers to the surroundings? Or if someone was to use it for Evil?
For all we know, it Can Petrify an Entire City Block almost instantly at little to no effort making it The Instrument of The Devil!
Something like this is Extremely Dangerous and shouldn't be treated lightly, yet *It Is*
You know, the fact the blue-haired mom tried both "old" and "new magic" and chose to stick with the old, actually makes her point stronger, since she gave a fair try to both types and decided that "old magic" was better...
Sage, your hat isn't _stupid._
Like the rest of your outfit, it's basic, bland and lacks any creativity - kind of like you as a character! So don't worry, it suits you perfectly 💖
“Witch hats are cool”
Her Halloween costume was more interesting
@@bluubandette8871 I'm well aware of the numerous flaws this show has, but I LOVED her Halloween costume. Along with Amaryllis and Snapdragon, she looked great in that episode
@@constantdisappointment5658 Yea they could've used those outfits instead
@@bluubandette8871 I can imagine Amaryllis calling Sage "bird-brain" whenever she geeks out about old magic, or history of something she enjoys
what would have made this work.
1. Change it from conservative to traditional.
2. Make it so Sage is feeling a bit of FOMO seeing all the people at school use all this new magic that can basically do anything (it's like a major deus ex machina that they don't even refer back to.) And while She's not confident she'll be good at new magic, she finds a way to mix both old and new magic in her own way.
cause the only thing the show gives us as a negative to old magic is "it has a cost but new magic is free!"
I sort of saw a bit of the ending in HGS and Sage sort of mixed new magic and old magic to beat the antagonist and that new magic drains the environment.
I kinda wish it wasn't just "Old" and "New" magic, but rather just be the general term.
@@zerozero4101 that's true it would be better if they just used general terms of magic.
i know the ending has the magic gets mixed with the teacher but i don't feel sage as a character made the mixture of magic her own. but then again it is this show soo *shrug* maybe it never could work with the way they built it.
I mean, conservatism is just the idea of holding up traditions. It doesn't just refer to political ideas. Still, this show has no concept of subtlety or nuance.
The show as the nuance of a bleeding stomach ulcer
There's some holes in that logic there chief queef.
1: There is no Japanese dub, this wasn't really used for other societies in mind when it was made.
2: Majority of the writers know what that word means and in the context of literally anything. There ain't no living person saying "We gotta be conservative about nature" its usually "We gotta conserve nature"
3: There multiple ways of saying the same things making it apolitical "She wasn't always a hardass about this" "She didn't always had the moral high ground" "Your mom used to be really cool when she was doing new magic"
This had 2+ years of development.
@@WhyYouMadBoi you're absolutely right. I was just saying that the term "conservative" has more than one meaning. There's all kinds of traditions, and this could have been a cool scene if the writers cared about their craft.
@@WhyYouMadBoi "we gotta be conservative about nature" we gotta be traditional about nature. You sound dumb
This could be a really good moment of characterization if "new" and "old" magic were actually defined outside of, "one involves a slightly different kind of phlebotinum power-source."
You know, like how it's done in The Dragon Prince, AtLA, The Owl House, and so many other, better shows. Otherwise the choice between "old" and "new" magic is completely arbitrary.
Yup so many better shows
To be watching
Or slightly better
Like iron arm or whatever that shit anime was
The Owl House Is woke trash just like High Guardian Spice and thank god It was cancelled.
@@davidfrancisco3502 how is it woke trash? All it had was one lesbian couple and the they never outright said "I'm a lesbian" unlike this show
@@egg7491 One of the writers Is a raging mysandric feminazi didn't you watched any news?
@@davidfrancisco3502 that doesn’t make it a bad show thou
You know what would have been a great twist? Uses new magic, finds out shes amazing at it, leagues above her friends with it. Then rejects it because she loves her family more and having a deeper understanding of it then her friends can point out it's flaws and why it would be bad for her to do. Saying that her family heritage means more to her then a quick and easy grab at power.
Moral of the story- convert the amish kid. Dont respect their home culture. I know it's a gay metaphor, but this is another interpretation I'm getting
I mostly got a drug angle out of this.
Knowing the Amish, this is a based message
Don't respect anyone's home culture. Criticize, ridicule and deconstruct all cultures. Maybe one day we'll end up with a decent one
"Your mom wasn't always so conservative."
...
Which makes me wonder. If her mom used to do New Magic, why did she stop? Was it, like, dangerous to the planet and so she stopped out of ethical concerns? Seriously harmed someone she cared about and it gave her PTSD or something? Very important question she should have asked.
Might be a bit of a boring answer but there are many people that tend to become more conservative as they age. What might be progressive once could end up being seen as conservative.
If I were writing for this show I would have made it so that new magic is somehow responsible for the rot that seems to be taking over the world, but it’s so easy and convenient to use that society has adopted new magic entirely and is now reliant upon it to keep their lives going.
@@blakebridges8989 Sort of like fossil fuels
@@randomduck8679 yeah and from that I would have the bad guys goal be to overthrow the current ruling power and bring old magic back in an effort to stop the rot. Give them some real depth and cause some drama between the main characters. Since Sage’s family mainly supports old magic she would be conflicted between supporting her family or her friends and the elf thyme would also have to choose between saving her forest with the aid of the bad guys or standing with her friends despite their allegiance to new magic and the academy.
When I watch shows like these, I start to understand the problem Tolkien had with allegory in his stories. He argued allegory forced the reader to see nothing but the writer's own view, and thus prevented them from immersing themselves in the story.
If anything, I feel "HGS" is most indicative of a growing trend I notice in fiction (especially web-original stuff) that allegory is making a serious comeback, and I think fiction is going to be hurt to that end, discouraging critical thinking.
I believe allegory CAN inspire critical thinking. After all, if an allegory is a viewpoint from the author, if conveyed right, it could make you think about what it means, and then maybe develop your own understanding on both the story and your own way of thinking.
But yeah… it has to be done in a way that isn’t this.
@@goodmachines7743 I think the OP means specifically pushing your own thoughts down the throat of your readers and expect them to go along with it. But I agree with you, if the writer is open-minded with certain thoughts and point of views and doesn't force the reader to agree with him and focuses on you know... writing a good story lol, THEN allegory is your friend
@@VibingMeike Then yes, I agree completely.
Fucking agreed. Example would be Watchmen. The original had nuance, it asked questions on heroism, the morality was grey and there wasn't just a good or bad guy. Now HBO's watchmen has the villains be evil white supremacists which makes the show less nuanced. It doesn't try to get to the root of racism and properly break down the ideology it just says "racism bad" which yeah no shit but that's not very insightful. Compare that to the original where it broke down what it means to be a hero. The governments influence on heroes, the morality of heroes, and and what really drives people to become a hero. It takes the idea and looks at it through multiple lenses to deconstruct it and show the complexity of it.
Personally, I don't think allegory is a bad thing but only if used in broad contexts or short tales (and even then, as a maybe and if it comes down to allegory or story, story comes first).
"Two lesbians take advantage of an emotionally vulnerable girl and convince her to try something she's uncomfortable with because of her traditional values" the video.
Hmmm
Considering this is seen as the twitter show this feels like allegory for grooming
Lol
@@carlweeper7436pretty much lmao
So do they ever say WHY Sage's mom stopped using new magic? Like, you always hear people say things like this, "Your mom used to do this, your dad used to do that, your parents used to do what you did!" But it's never explained WHY the parents stopped doing those things. Sometimes, they have a pretty good reason for stopping.
In the context of the show however, I'm sure Sage's mom didn't have *any* good reason to stop using new magic other than for her to serve as a political point for the writers.
I feel like they were supposed to explain more of this shit in a season 2 since it seems the show's creator seemed ambitious enough to have this last more than 13 episodes. but considering this show sucked really hard and garnered alot of negative responses, I highly doubt we'll ever see an answer.
Actually it’s probably because sage’s mom realized that new magic was destroying the world, but yeah nothing in this show is explained well
@@Dekomata I just wonder what crunchyroll was thinking, they basically released a bootleg owl house Steven universe abomination to their *anime* site so not only would it have been hated by the cartoon community, but being released on a platform where the community isn’t interested in cartoons like this on that site was bound to get it hated hard
The elf chick clearly doesn’t know what hypocrisy is. She should read it in a dictionary.
What do you expect? She married an out-of-place looking butch lesbian without questioning why [Anise] married [Aloe] to begin with, other than [Aloe] looks like how feminist lesbians & incels see women.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Anise is just Kate Leth's self-insert of who she wishes to be, and still hate men to the core.
@@keshiaanders6452 I’m fairly certain Anise is considered to be Kate Leth’s self insert. I’ve heard a few people compare her design to the writer, so it’s not too much of a stretch. I mean, the trans professor is literally the creator’s self insert and Rosemary is also a self insert of the creator before they transitioned.
Hello again! I think? I’ve seen you somewhere before, in hero hei’s comment section?
@@littlebabyman8494 Yes?
We still need to teach the elf lady what “hypocritical” means. Yes sage should try out new things but also... why did the mom decide to go back to her old roots? There must’ve been something! Like people don’t just try out something new and better and then decide “meh yeah that’s it”. In most cases similar to this a person would probably just use both and blend the two.
I wish they'd explain their magic system better or at all like what specifically goes into the process of new magic and why old magic is viewed as inferior. From what little the show offers to that explanation I figured new magic is like a gun and old magic is like a bow and arrow. New magic's effects are instant while old magic takes skill and time. Though no one explains how new magic is made to have such effects and why it isn't considered old magic if you're making "ammo" for your "gun". and how the preparation of that ammo wouldn't be considered old magic.
Honestly I do find the idea of there being “old” and “new” magic being rather fascinating but the show flops over itself so much in worldbuilding (let’s not talk about its general writing) that it ends up never meaningfully explores that concept or even sow the seeds for it
As more and more time passes, the more I am convinced that the demographics of this cartoon are tumblr (or twitter) people
That is why this program is so childish but so violent with very "specific" themes, it appeals to those people with an immature mentality but mired in "political issues", those people who spend their time watching "cartoons for children" (emphasized the quotation marks) that appeal to a "certain group". . . you know
Hey don't bring tumblr into this, we can't help someone listened to the crazies and made a show about their ideas lol.
Tumblr is shitting on this show as well- every time I see an add for this it’s full of people calling it out lol.
i see this all the time, i feel like so many shows meant for adults are really just kids shows peppered with unnecessary violence out of the blue, to the point where there’s literally no depth at all. cussing and mature themes doesn’t make a show good or ‘deep’, it’s what they do with them and how the plot works with it- you can’t just throw stuff in and expect it to work without actually sewing it into the story itself
this was apparent from the time it was announced three years ago.
You mean like Teen Titans Go?
Let me guess: if HGS got more episodes it would probably have been revealed that Sage's father was the one who pushed her mother back into the old magic stuff. He is a white cishet male. So of course it would all be his fault.
They should promote you to fortune-teller
Every political insert movie and series just loves blaming straight men
@@bluubandette8871 One day, when the population stops being able to procreate they will blame straight men even if gays can not generate human :V **Sorry, this joke was homophobic too much**
@@lobaoguara2332 Dont worry I'm not a snowflake lol. Next thing you know they'll tweet or cry on tiktok saying, "Its because I'm ugly? Waah Waaah!!"
@@bluubandette8871 and i respect you for that
Not really a fan of this show, but I am looking at this scene from an editor's perspective. I think this character's development should focus around blending old and new magic that makes something spectacular. It honors the old while embracing the new. Does the show detail the pros and cons, the dangers and or sacrifices of using old magic verses new magic? What importance does new magic have on Sage's life. Is she any good at magic period? If her mother did once use new magic, why did she stop? Was it dangerous? Was it family pressure? Are the old ways in danger of becoming extinct and she wanted to preserve it? Sure, young people buck tradition but as they grow older they rediscover traditions that they incorporate in their current belief system or use it to reevaluate what they currently believe.
Yeah it would be better if things were properly explained beyond superficial stuff like 'old magic is slow and lame, new magic is fast and cool'. I don't even know if they have a mana system or if magic is an inherited trait or if anyone can just learn to do it.
I think Sage trying to discover WHY her mum ditched 'new magic' and Thyme knowing about the rot should lead to them teaming up and to them figuring out that 'new magic' does have a cost ie instead of the cost of mana from yourself it eats the mana of the world. Gives Thyme something to do besides brood and Sage can prove sometimes easier isn't always better.
@@Lesbiwolf92 That's a really good idea too.
Honestly that could’ve made for great and interesting messages and themes… unfortunately tye writing team just went with the lazy “old bad new good” without taking nuance into account
Moral of the story: If everyone makes fun of you for your traditions, abandon them. Do what's new and popular. 👍🏽
"She liked this new thing but not this new new thing, therefore hypocrite"
That doesn't even make sense, is it hypocritical to like pokemon B&W when they were new but not Sword and shield when they're new? "Well you like this new thing so you have to like all new things" they focus so much in how "New" something is because newer is always better no matter the quality.
How did they not catch this after having this show be in development for over 3 years if I remember correctly
@@carlweeper7436 From what I've heard, this show was most likely finished multiple years ago but they went and released it now so that it could see the light of day before the Sony merger (it prolly would've been better if they just kept the show behind the tons of boxes in the closet)
I'm all for "Learning from the old and Embracing the new." mentality.
Being stuck in the old ways and ignoring the present is a good way to get yourself gutted in the future.
But I can also understand that change can be... scary. Not a lot of folks like to see things change, even if it is for the better.
There's also the fact that change for the sake of change isn't always good. Something being old isn't instantly bad and something being new isn't instantly good. Something being old isn't inherently a good reason to change it by itself.
I like that a lot, that's very wise
@Logan Roof News I like how bigotry has a negative connotation as if having firm unwavering beliefs is a bad thing but yes your right nobody is scared.
true. there was always people of the old generations disliking "the new". Our grandparents were the new generations at some point, and their old generations complained about them too.
Hell some people were against books at some point.
@@fluidwolf it’s sad that if this show was written better it could’ve really tackled the nuances of change and whether change is good or not using new and old magic, but sadly it was never meant to be
I hate how you can tell new magic and old magic were never going to be fleshed out or an interesting mechanic in the show’s universe and only existed for this moment. It’s honestly more sad when this message is actually really messed up, the girl who grew up in a traditional family is manipulated into thinking she’s lived a life without something and should not listen to her parental figures in favor of her new two influencers. This is like a teenager taking acid after being told her mom once smoke a cigarette so she’s just a hypocrite. This show is crazy.
God now that you say it, this sounds horrifying a teen getting manipulated by older ones to try something that’s experimental (ends up being highly dangerous in the end) just because their parents did it once before
Spoiler:
The "new magic" ends up being the source of the blight that is killing the forest. So...extrapolating the thinly veiled allegory you come up with the idea that new magic (i.e. LGBT, modernity, insert your own idea) is the rot thats killing the forest (society) and magic.
And that kiddies is why you do not try to push your narrow world view first and the story second. Otherwise you end up with unintended messages that may muddle or outright murder your intended message. Focus on the story and characters. The message will appear, as if from vapor, afterwards.
Yeah instead of having complexity the writers have wrote themselves into a corner because now the messages they’re sending don’t mix together at all properly
This is what I find the most amusing about how they wrote the conflict. They completely crossed the wires and by linking progressive teachings to decay and destruction, they made conservative viewpoints and practices sound like a better deal. The idea they were trying to convey falls flat on its face. If they decide to attempt a season 2 I fully expect them to retcon it.
So they played themselves...
*Rewriting*
Anise: and if your mom don't like it, we can try to talk to her
Aloe: if atleast we knew what happened in the past... *gasps*
Anise: Aloe!
Aloe: sorry...
Sage: past?
Anise: listen Sage, your mother wasn't always so traditional. During our younger years, she decided to give a try on New Magic, but then she just stopped and told us to never use New Magic again. We don't know why she just decided to stop and everytime that we asked, she would get really nervous and try to change topics.
You know, in concept I like the idea of a magic system being used to parallel our world, like using Old Magic vs New Magic, but... I can't explain why exactly, but... The way this show is doing it, makes it feel a little, I don't know, forced? unnatural? Like it doesn't quite fit, something is out of place
Its political propoganda, thats why. It can be compared to conservatism and the way progressivism is an "improvement" to it and that certain people are stuck on the old ways because it worked for them. The comparison is sloppy and flawed though, and her mother's reason for using old magic is honestly justified because she tried new magic and didn't like that. That's perfectly understandable, and its also understandable that she wishes to pass it on her daughter cause her experience with it wasn't good at all.
Its just virtue narcissism. What's wrong with people enjoying conservative ways? Whats good about falling in line and accepting new thinking? We're all fucking individuals and trying to paint the old ways as "wrong" or "outdated" paints a discriminatory light on those who follow those values.
It could be used like how there are low tech/no tech communities and people vs high tech communities and people ie how you have farmers who farm using oxen and horses to plough the fields and grow crops while other farmers use machines.
Or new magic could be actually new and we are in an transitional period where very few people know the all the pros and cons of new magic.
@@hjrujana @Pie-Lord
See, now, I like these ideas here, I think we could even put them together, these are fun, good ideas with great potential
OldScarecrow, I really like the inclusion of how new magic is not perfect, and also has it's cons, 10/10
And you know what Pie-Lord, your ideas and comparisons are giving me all these cute ideas, and just, I really enjoy your analogy, 10/10
The way she was talking about the terasphere, is the exact same energy as realizing you're gay
So... "old magic" is "conservative", which means... witch hat. And "new magic" is "progressive", which means... a punked out look with a nose ring? That's how her mom had a "progressive" phase? What did this explain to us, exactly?
Tired of this notion that we should embrace things simply because they’re new. Not all new things or ideas are good.
0:22 Okay, all joking aside, this statement is extremely, extremely harmful to adolescents and young kids. It's basically telling kids, "I'm getting bullied and pressured to the point of changing something about myself." I'm glad kids aren't watching this show (or anyone, for that matter).
I really like how they go down the “your mother tried new magic before coming to the conclusion new magic shouldn’t be used” as if it’s a counter to not using new magic.
"Yeah I used heroin once and lost my house, but I guess that is hypocritical of me to persuade you from repeating my failures."
No, what is hypocritical is telling a young girl she is wrong for using old magic and trying to change her, yet telling the femboy that its okay to be yourself and he doesn't have to change. And also for putting her mother down for trying new magic but finding it wasn't right for her so she went back to the old way. Like, what else do they want from her? Reminds me a lot of the left ideology, its either their way or you're wrong. Period.
“The left ideology” Holy shit make a better argument
@Ume Sama I mean, if you read the whole thing you would realize I just did make a legit argument about this scene. Not my fault you have tunnel vision.
But since you apparently need me to explain more thoroughly, this type of mindset does coincide a lot with the left ideology. Considering the people who wrote the show are clearly left leaning since the idea of conservatism (usually equating to the right wing aka "old magic" in this shows terminology) is frowned upon as they so openly stated in this clip. "Your mother wasn't always so conservative". Its a parallel to both political parties.
The right = old magic
The left = new magic
Its an obvious attempt at conversion.
@@UmeSama2080 I mean... Are they wrong though?
@@wheelshoe I meant it was an obvious attempt at conversion on Sage in the show. Not right winged people. And I didn't say all leftists had to agree with it, but that many leftists do have this ideology hence why this is even a thing in the first place. You hardly ever hear about this sort of thing on the right.
@@wheelshoe I feel like it’s shows like this and twitter in general that give leftists a really bad name
Tried to rewrite this scene
Alert / my English isn't the best
"She's repeating her mum past ahh"
"Your mum was really insecure when she was young, I mean hold on"
"She doesn't like bringing that"
"She needs to learn from others experiences , maybe then she won't have a mid life crisis at 14 over magic types"
"Not funny"
"So when I was still in witch country your mum went through a phase where she rejected old magic ,new magic was all the hype back then so I thought it was cool "
" She realised few years later that she liked old magic better"
" Turns out she was embarrassed to use old magic, but She grow as a person and stopped caring about what others think and so do you ..
The kind of magic you use doesn't matter as long as it work for you got it .
Sage - yeah maybe it doesn't matter
The amount of retcon in a single season is enough to tell they just dont know how to make a story.
I like Sage and hate what was made there, by her and her Mom.
Never expected that witness such a waste could be painful.
Strange for a show with such subtextual emphasis on progressivism to use old tropes poorly to tell lectures instead of stories.
Would be cool to have a character that’s different from the others by using old magic. Would add something interesting to her character and surprise people with how awesome it is
The writers: and she THROWS her hat at the ground with FORCE--
The animators: *draw the hat softly landing on the ground with a soft paff noise*
It would be comical but this is meant to be taken seriously???
Have you ever thrown a piece of paper? A thin flimsy hat will do the same
I really hate the push of that lesbian couple in this show too. Notice how they zoom in on the picture of them unnecessarily just so you KNOW they're a couple.
Now I'm not against LGTBQ+ couples at all but when they're done like this, it shows they're mainly doing it for points. Shows like The Owl House or the She-Ra reboot did LGTBQ+ couples amazingly!
Why? Because they treated it like a normal couple and not shoving it in your face every two seconds because "omg two women as couplez?!??!? Isn't that so amazing and make us great people!!!"
Honestly using lgbtq+ couples like this is more of a problem rampant in the animation industry as a whole, but yeah the way it’s done here is so forced and frankly feels unneeded
Fun fact: 98% of people who say they are "liberals"/"conservatives" don't even know what those words mean, they just wanna use it because it makes it easier to blame others and put yourself on a higher pedestall
Well in the chapter you can see the portrait of their wedding of them in one part and it looks so clear.
Hell, I've seen lesbian couples that feel WAY more human than Anise and Aloe despite not being human!
(I of course refer to Ruby and Sapphire, and Lizbert and Eggabell.)
I dunno. New magic is strongly implied to be responsible for the rot and there's a few scenes focusing on combining old and new magic where doing so is shown to be very effective. You might be looking into that line too hard. That doesn't mean it's not a metaphor for something though.
Her mom isn't a hypocrite, her mom tried new magic and something happend for her to not use it anymore and is teaching her daughter to not do it either. It's pretty much parents did something when they were younger and regretted it and don't want their kids to do the same thing
The point they should take from this is not "why was your mom once rebellious?" The point you should take away from this is: "why is your mom *no longer* rebellious, what happened that made her change lifestyle?"
To be fair, Sage's whole outfit is stupid. It looks like a Halloween costume.
A lesbian woman saying “What’s wrong, tiger” is sending me into cringe till 2030
Sounds like smth a pedophile would say😭😭
As someone who was genuinely curious what Old and New Magic is because it's been 3 episodes, Episode 4 frustrated me immensely because Sage's been acting like seeing New Magic with her naked eyes will make her family disown her so when the lesbians showed the truth about her mom I was pissed af because it looks like New Magic isn't some forbidden magical art it's an IDEOLOGY aka LESBIANISM.
"Your mom deviated." And at that point I was all "Shut the fuck up" and wrote my own magic system for my rewrite. It's so infuriating because the show has some good ideas but the writers are so obsessed with writing lesbianisms and the "Old is Bad. New and the absence of consequence is ALWAYS Good" rhetoric that they're willing to throw the worldbuilding away.
It could’ve worked, had it not been so nakedly obvious. Just the wording alone makes it feel more like a thesis than a story.
If anyone in this show is a hypocrite, it's the teachers at High Guardian Academy. Not only do they exclusively teach new magic, despite seeing that it's harmful, but they also knowingly let the children into life-threatening situations, knowing that they will probably die, despite that going against what being a guardian (whatever that is) stands for.
There's a very interesting kind of people that can be found anywhere in the political spectrum, they make "being right" their entire life goal. They're not really interested in standing for what they think it's right, they just wanna BE right. The people involved in this show are just like that. They don't wanna talk about LGBT+ lives, they don't wanna inspire empathy and love, they just wanna "own" whoever disagrees with them. That's just sad, man.
They spend the entire show reinforcing the same gender stereotypes they try so hard to break, snapdragon gender arc is the biggest proof. so just because he's kinder and more empathetic than his father that means he's a mtf person? just because sage's mom decided to go back to being "conservative" she's being repressed and forced to be this way? this is so fucking dumb omg
this show should be called Twitter: the animation
So THAT'S why the show's magic system is so confusing af
If this wasn't just one of the author's self-insert persecution complex this might actually be a good hook: if the mother used to practice this type of magic and then not only stopped but got hostile to it, *there might be a good reason for it.*.
They actually made it so that the mother can't look like some sort of bigot with prejudices!
They never did explain why Sage's mom stopped using new magic, it's kinda clear she didn't just get bored of it...
That, and the Plot Damage Control system.
Sofia the First already did this plot better, where Lucinda wants to be a good witch, but her mom is an evil witch, and she's afraid of what would happen if she founds out. In the end, Lucinda's mom accepted that while she doesn't agree with Lucinda's new life style, she wouldn't stop her from doing what makes her happy ("but I hope it's just a phase"). I think they did it way better, And instead of being some oddly specific shit, it's applicable to lots of things
Yeah but why did her mom stop using new magic? If she tried it and deemed it to be too dangerous, then she's not a hypocrite, just cautious and scared for her daughter to do something hurtful too. (Like hurting the water dragon, hint, hint)
If she just wants to use old magic to be hip or something and pretend she never used it, then yes, she's a hypocrite.
Context matters, Cousin Anise.
The main reason why I hated Sage and her mother because all I see in the “anime”that the mother just wanted her to do the “old” way, cause they didn’t explain it properly and it’s impossible for me to understand the magic system because the writing is so bad.
Why would the mom want to talk about a period in her life that runs counter to her current beliefs? Maybe she should’ve told her daughter about why she thinks new magic sucks, but she’s not a monster for not talking about her rebellious teenage years
0:47 “I don’t know what to do, and now I’m yelling and I hate yelling!”
*THEN STOP YELLING!!!*
This whole situation feels like an Amish/Mennonite girl being forced to conform to aspects of mainstream culture that conflict with her own upbringing and ideals. This is why people of those communities prefer to stay in their communities.
What bothers me the most about this storyline is that they never go into why her mom went back to old magic. That seems like something important to bring up. It could have explained why she forces her family to stay with old practices.
Just one of the multiple reasons I wish this show could be remade.
The wizard version of
"My parents are Republican and I'm becoming Democrat!"
Conservative just means being into old ways. That's how the political party got it's name
Conservative is not just a political ideology…
By the end of the show the message is totally the opposite because it’s revealed New Magic is evil and killing the planet while Old Magic is actually environmentally beneficial.
They just shot themselves in the foot.
“I dOn’T kNoW wHaT tO Do AnD nOw I’m YeLliNG…. aNd I hAtE yElLiNG 🥰😘🤩😛😋🤪😜😝” 💀💀💀
This is definitely how normal human beings speak in everyday conversations.
Now the questions the series should have asked which could have really helped the series:
Why did Sage's mom move from old magic to new magic?
Why did she go back to old magic?
Is there something about the new magic that the students aren't being told?
Why is the teresphere(not sure how to spell that) important and why does it activate when Sage touches it and ONLY Sage? Is the teresphere trying to tell Sage something?
What is there about old magic that is so unlikable?
I wish I had a clearly cyberpunk family member to explain magic systems to me :(
You know they missed out, Sage should of done the opposite and she should of embarced and proved how great old magic is.
I have four things to say about this scene and the show in general:
1) the rebel mother stereotype was supposed to be about that she was rebel by the standars of her time not about been rebel by the standars of the actual time and this explain why she was not rebel in the actual days.
2) subtlety is not existent in the show in general and in this scene in particular,subtlety is importand because without it your message feels more like an accusation based in a stereotype that a genuine critic about a situation
3) is funny how the crew behind that tries to say that the middle age people especially the parents are bad because they obligates young people to thinks like them but the crew literally thinks that they form of thinking is the only true
4) they dont even explain what is the diffence between old and new magic and that only cotributes that the audience sees that metafore about the two types of magic is just a social propaganda not a real thing
Basically "your mom wasn't always a hardline heterosexual, she experimented around in college with other girls, but later pretended it never happened "
Maturity is when you do something stupid in your youth and as you grow older you teach younger inexperienced people not to do it because you know how bad it is.
Hypocrisy is when you do something and tell others not to do it.
If theres one thing I hate about this scene its the fact that nobody asks why her mom stopped using the sphere's in the first place its almost as if the writers knew the answer would demolish their argument.
*Intense Snoring*
Y'know last I checked, I've NEVER come across anime that talks about modern day American politics, especially in a medieval like era.
(Remember that the cast said that this series has unique plot, but it's literally just political agendas made by toxic feminists)
Wikipedia had the nerve to say this series was review-bombed by hate groups and internet trolls.
I take it the people who worked on the High Guardian Spice page didn't try to actually research what people had to really say about this series. Especially those from the groups this series was meant to cater to. And their ultimate displeasure at what came about.
Whoa, sage actually has emotion in her voice
0:29
*Tf2 soldier crashes in*
tf2 soldier: this is mine now
"What if we advocate against religion, but we call it OlD mAgIc?"
-Someone who thought she's smart
Its not religion. its Sustainability. Sage's mom uses slower, harder magic and plants trees after any major spell, instead of blasting out spells in one second and damaging the planet.
New magic is taking a plane to go to another city. Old magic is Is taking a train powered by renewables. slower, sure, but better for the planet.
“HAHA! THESE PEOPLE ARE BAD BECAUSE WE SAY IT IS!”
-Someone who thought she was smart too
This is like something I saw that was a Christian conservative aka her mom talking to a atheist liberal aka her cousin talking about indoctrination or what ever and this is like that but more complicated
Ok.....so they made this scene to show that this cartoon tells you that you cant be yourself. That you need other people to decide that for you. "Lets be progressive by saying that you should be the same as everyone else"
this scene would have some potential if the magic was explained in some point of this "anime"
I think the sad part about this is that, concept wise, this is a interesting plot line, having a character who has been forced to live a strictly old-fashioned style and trying to adjust to more modern methods could've been a creative way to go about character development whilst also teaching audience members the importance of change. However, due to the writers preference to TELL us these things instead of show, the whole bit just falls flat on it's face, (just like a lot of other character plots this show tries and fails to introduce) 😔
“And now I’m yelling, and I hate yelling!”
Such dialogues
This would be so much better if the reveal was that new magic took energy from the earth and was slowly killing it, something many people refused to believe. I mean it’s still ham-fisted, but it works better
One thing I like about anime stories is the "never giving up" attitude of an underdog character.
Sage is clearly written as an underdog character with her being made fun of at school and anxiety over her old magic (she's kinda like Lee from Naruto). So wouldn't it be better if she continued to hone her skills in old magic and prove to everyone that she can be just as capable to be a guardian with it like the ones who practice new magic?
Besides, new magic seems a bit lazy for me. I've seen some clips of characters using new magic like freaking crutches. Like Sage's cousin making a portal to travel from her kitchen to her dining room or that crazy witch teacher bragging to Sage about how new magic is better than old magic but at the same time, her terra sphere runs out of juice and immediately replaces it with another one (Which means not only is it lazy, it's also only temporary and it's expensive).
This whole clip screams “twitter: the anime” towards me
Here’s the thing, I actually like the concept behind this allegory. However, there are two major problems:
One, it puts the allegory before the story. There are multiple different ways that they could have used it better. Having some kind of conflict between old magic and new magic users that causes the group to get fractured, giving Sage a legitimate character arc about learning about how good new magic is and the problems it can cause, while also using the conflict to flesh out the magic system. Or literally anything that turns the allegory into an actual story. (Or maybe it did, but poorly. I have not actually seen the show. I don’t even have a Crunchyroll subscription and I don’t feel like getting one just to watch this show.) It’s worse than Supergirl (at least the last 5 seasons). At least *that* show tried to turn it’s allegories into stories, even if they weren’t always entertaining.
Two, the allegory isn’t even communicated properly. No joke, when clips started getting shared around on TH-cam, I legit thought that it was intended to be a “nature vs technology” story, given the way they all talk about old and new magic, and the general personality of Sage, our resident old magic user. It took me months of watching these clips for me to realize that *this* is what it was going for, because again, it feels the need to put saying “we’re right, you’re wrong” in any way they can over telling a good story. And this is coming from a guy that agrees with the politics that seem to be coming from this show.
Her hair is animated like it’s one solid ceramic object