Smart sponsorship from Prevost.. that pipe systems looks NICE. Nice way to show 200k+ people just how quick and slick their system installs. Must have been a joy to work with.
More like 2 million. But ya it was an excellent idea because it's not a commercial. It is in the video forever... more like a brilliant investment than idea lol
The compressor might be good enough, but your air reserves might be lacking. You don't run the hammer non-stop, but you pause while heating. If you added another air tank, you will increase the full tilt runtime. The test for the compressor would be if it is finished topping off the tanks before the heating is done and you're ready to use the hammer again. Judging by this video, the compressor tops off the tank quickly. That would indicate the tank also empties quickly. Again, that shows that the tank is too small. The point is that an additional tank is much less expensive than a larger compressor. Or even a taller tank that sits in the same footprint but goes up to the ceiling
Also the tank should be as close to the hammer as possible, with a connecting hose that is slightly bigger than the port it is feeding into. same with the out port of the tank.
On this note, you might consider putting a second tank immediately behind the power hammer. It might not be an issue with the large diameter pipe, but the expansion tank near the hammer might lessen any effect of pressure decrease during flow from the piping.
The nice thing about this is that you can also wait for your budget and a sale to align. It's already fully functional, and patience can save you a bundle!
@@brandongraham3509 The gas draw of the hammer is most likely not steady also. There might be back and forth oscillations in the long pipe from the hammer valves slamming open and shut. I also wonder if a cubic meter tank behind the hammer would allow better airflow in the pipe by isolating the flow in the pipe from the effects of the valves in the hammer.
@@wombatillo that was my thinking. The air tank near the hammer would help isolate the line and act as a capacitor to isolate the main line and also minimize losses in the line due to the short run from the tank
Alec! The prv on top of the yellow vessel is absoluteley not the right one by means of airflow quantity. It has to be at least the same amount, the compressor can deliver. Just a little hint from a german inspector. Stay safe.❤
Extra comment to hopefully boost this up as I was thinking the same but didn't know for sure, looks too small, as it looks much like one I'd use but just what flow rate is possible in that sort of size
@foldionepapyrus3441 it depends on the set pressure of the valve and the size of the orifice. I'd assume it's set around 150-200 psig, if you know what type of valve it is, you can look at some tables on the manufacturer's website to get your answer. For a little air valve like this, it's pretty easy to get the correct size. It gets complicated when you are dealing with anything else
for screw compressors i prefer burst discs. those compresor move lots of air, any malfunction due time on valves is a big no no in my book. i have seen enough air tank rockets for my time. get a burst disc plumb it up to outside. if it burst you just get a very large bang without damaging anything. 1st it warns you that your compressor shat the bed 2nd when a burst disc fails there is absolutely NO WAY you can build pressure in asystem.
You should run coolent when dressing the wheel on the grinder, it cuts down on the dust and prolongs the life of the diamond. The diamond is also an extreme heat conductor transferring the heat to the metal around it making it expand as you traverse the grinding wheel this can result in a few microns across the wheel. I do centerless, centred, and other outer diameter grinding operation in a precision mechanical workshop where we usually work within tolerances of 10 micron sometimes smaller. For me it just feels wrong not using coolant while dressing.
You need to add if you want to use coolant when dressing it needs to be fed with high pressure directly on the diamond, if you cant get perfect cooling its better to run it dry. The most important is to take small cuts so the diamond doesent heat too much and vaporize. The diamond Alec is using is completely burnt off.
As long as the coolent overcomes the air barrier of the grinding wheel it will push coolent into the pores and carry it with the wheel. And it greatly cuts down on the dust.
@@AlecSteeleYou got a world of fans to pull info from. Bet thats a cool feeling :D. Keep at it homie. Itd be cool to work on a project with ya sometime!
it's called a Panel Key , it has four different shapes on it to open up electrical panels , it will work on the new compressor, it's a standard tool we use in the maintenance industry
You don't need it to run forever, just for a couple of minutes while the iron is hot. That means the problem isn't really that the air compressor is too small, but that you need more storage. Which is quite a bit cheaper to solve! lol
Was genuinely my favourite bit. I think I watched it four times in succession and laughed every time. Last one I think was tinkering with / testing / installing the new (old) machines. Love every one😅
Hey Alec, we have a ton of compressed air piping around work, you may have done it, but something we deal with a ton is condensation, to address that, we have a few pipes through the system with ball valves so we can purge any fluids out of the line on occasion.
Alec I am so glad you got that old Steam Hammer working again, you saved a valuable piece of engineering and history! You should be so proud of yourself!!
Just astonishing how powerful that steam hammer is, how quickly it moves that steel. Even if it doesn't work for that long, the amount of work you can get done on it for that duration is still brilliant.
I watched your content a lot in the early UK days and during the he Montana time. Not so much in the last 3 years or so. But these steam powerhammer and shop upgrade videos pulled me back in. Restoring old machines and setting up a workshop never gets old. Keep it up :)
_Cost?_ I'm a grad student, and my field of research dabbles into a bit of business management. I am not an accountant or a financier, but I have a thing or two to say about costs. Whenever I took courses in basic principles from the field, I felt humbled that so many things in the world hold properties and values that we can not measure and quantify, let alone convert said quantitative value into a fair monetary representation. Balance sheets often include the value of "intangible assets" in a corporation, and deciding what number to write into that account is barely better than glorified guesswork. No matter what material investments and codified procedures you tally up within an organization, in the end, the human element will be the judge of that because it always walks in last -- as if it were the judge who is always the last to enter the courtroom before any trial can start -- and throws a giant wrench at every calculus. The whole point was to remember how hard and complicated it is to research real-world phenomena in human society because, unlike lab experiments in science and engineering, too many important variables in so-called social sciences are obscured to researchers and practitioners. But when it comes to your steam hammer restoration project, the cost-benefit calculus is made crystal clear rather than hard and complicated. As long as someone was not seriously hurt or your business didn't lose a ton of money to the point of bankruptcy, *that cost is negligible.* You estimated the total restoration/installation cost to be around 13k GBP. You've also said that its estimated operating cost was around 74.40 GBP per six hours to power the thing, which is more than five times higher than your other hammers. The cost is not unreasonable because I can tell you what this steam hammer will cost you in context: it costs you *one metric South Korean.* The restoration cost you've spent is about the annual salary of a minimum wage worker in South Korea, and you've spent it in less than a year. The steam hammer's energy cost of 12.4 GBP per hour is about 23k KRW per hour. But unlike what you said about the steam hammer in 16:32, a Korean office worker who earns twice the minimum wage can't give you *hot steel,* let alone help you forge a billet of metal QR code. And you are not even spending the totally-not-ridiculous payroll of a Korean office worker exclusively on that single machine. In a pencil-pusher's lingo, you've "created and accrued additional value in the form of primary and secondary capabilities." You have renovated electrical and pneumatic systems in your workshop. You've gained contacts you can rely on when you need to refurbish or replace heavy-duty machine parts in the future. You've looked through old patent documents, found schematics from their included drawings, and compared them with the physical machine right before you. I've never done such a thing when I had to work with patent documents myself, and I don't know a colleague on my floor who does it. Moreover, your Discord is filled with real people with real experiences. Services like ChatGPT can not give you the same kind of information and advice those people have given you, and it is *categorically* impossible for the next 5 years at a minimum because of how LLMs work. Meanwhile, the whole process was published as a series of videos that, in total, gained millions of views. This means that while you've been restoring a rusty mass of iron and steel to its former glory, you've made thousands and thousands of people around the world spend their time watching your progress, which, when combined, will be of several orders of magnitude greater than the total time you've invested into this machine and TH-cam videos thereof. Try putting a "cost" to that. This is my ode to big machines and videos of people working with big machines. Thank you for taking ten hours of my life away from me. 17:28 and "Gosh, that is beautiful."
if the compresor shuts down while you are reheating the metal, you can double your air storage, just add another tank. it will give you around %50 more work time.
I'd say it got to do with the distance to the tank as well, the lenght of the pipes takes a lot of punch because it has lot's of room to fill and distance to travel.
Hi Alec, Something to consider is that your tank will take a predefined pressure.. perhaps 150bar, so I cannot see your entire set up, but if you incorporate an intensifier, which is powered by your compressor, this will compress more air into your existing tank ( be careful that this does not over compress the defined limit of your existing small tank) then once there is let's say 120bar of super compressed air in the main tank ( I'll reiterate please check it's max permissable working pressure) then you regulate the air into your system to facilitate the operation of the steam hammer for more sustained periods of time. Your regulated requirement of CFM will be consistent, your compressor will be running a little more to run the intensifier, but it should be a much better system overall. Hopefully this all makes sense. And.. if this has already been considered then that's great. Best of luck. I've been in engineering a very long time, and it's lovely to see someone as young as you so enthused by all aspects of engineering. Keep it all up.
Hey Alex, just a quick bit of advice, I know you got the oiler on the steam hammer working for now, but since your running off of compressed air, there are some inline devices it might be good to up grade with. You can get compressed air automatic oilers that are normally used for air tools, but might be good for the hammer as well. You should also add some sort of water extraction method in the air compressed set up, especially since your using aluminum pipe. Alot of the internal pipe on your compressors is likely copper, and the mismatched metals can cause galvanic corrosion, which is accelerated by the presence of water. You probably don't need anything extreme like a desiccant filter or anything like that, just some automatic water drains on the low points, and an oil separator filter would do. Over all though, it looks great so far!
Tha Atlas Compressor is a FF or “Full function” machine, indicating it has an integral refrigerant dryer fitted from factory, so if working water shouldn’t be an issue
Those things you mentioned doesent make any difference. And galvanic corrotion only happens when two metals meet in a connection. A water trap does nothing to lower the dew point.
We need more videos Alec!!! I've never been more excited for your videos than this titanium series. Everyday I go on TH-cam awaiting another vid from the series.
Having done an air replumb of a shop using old technology, that Prevost push-to-fit stuff is super nice. Really cool of them to hook you up with the piping and tools.
Alec that's simply amazing the work you've put in order to get that steam power hammer working!! You're a genius and incredible at getting things done!!! Congrats, we cannot wait till you start really using that power steam hammer ‼️
I've just suggested that he reviews the max permissable working pressure of that tank, as he could add a unit called and intensifies. This would super compressed the air in the tank, so that he can regulate the outgoing air to the system. Thus providing far greater run times from the same setup. But, if his tank isn't rated sufficiently it won't work.. looking at it, it looks like a 150 to 200 bar tank, plenty for him.
@@christopherbradford2133 man the pressure in the tank was only 125psi 14:24 his compressor can't do 150-200 bar that's on up there with scuba tank compressors [diff design]
April 27 20011, I was going through one of the worst years of my adult life. Getting diagnosed with a disease that forced me to retire from the trades. Experiencing horrible pain constantly. But I found a little kid beating hot steel on TH-cam. Seems almost half of your lifetime but to me it's just 13 short years. Thank you Alec , you are a prime example of the adage: "If you do what you love you will never work a day in your life". 👍
Being a metal worker, i can tell you that you need something like this: "4-Wege-Multifunktionsschlüssel,Universeller Schaltschrankschlüssel,Multifunktionale Cross Key"😊 for your compressor
Steam hammer is an epic machine and workshop upgrades look great. I have a similar size compressor that i do sandblasting with, when was used in a shop we ran 2" or 50mm line for that sort of CFM an you really want direct lines to machines if possible with less 90s/bends due to help with pressure loss and i found personally expansion tanks were better suited at end of a line that inline especially if your pushing lots of air through a rotary pump as can slow down airspeed(i would consider getting bigger pressure release valve on expansion tank) and final thing you can buy valve so the system stays running but vents if not loaded as with the little amount of expansion tank you have will get filled up super quick and motors as you might know don't like turning on and off all the time Keep up your hard work and appreciate what you do
"I've been installing some very serious piping in the workshop." And also some very serious LED backlighting along the pipes. And steel rack. And a few other places. Looks pretty cool!
Ayyo, Alec! Just now finding your channel, and I gotta say, I love it! Even just the stuff of you fixing up your shop, not making anything in particular, is just awesome to me. Cheers, mate!
Wow! That hammer is absolutely beautiful! It’s very surprising how much more powerful it is than the stanko as well. A 30 second duty cycle with a hammer that powerful doesn’t really seem too bad either, sure it could be better but that’s still really good. Could you ask the company who gave you all the piping for a discount code of some kind, that you can share with us in the next video? I’d love to replace some of my existing air lines in my shop with that stuff.
I would advise you to install an automatic condensate drain on your buffer tank like the EWD 50 by atlas copco. If you want to work for a longer period of time you probably need an 120 gallon tank, the compressor is plenty powerful enough. Also, the pressure relieve valve is too small and you should regularly blow out the air cooler of the compressor. Your pipe installment was top notch but I didn't expect anything less from you.
I used to install Prevost Air, Water and Nitrogen lines. That is quite a nice gift you received! Just about the best stuff you can get, I loved working with it. (Small tip, use some glass cleaner inside the fitting before applying it to the tubing to lubricate the O-rings and it evaporates with little residue.)
The amount of good content in your videos is a pleasure 🤩 some channels videos feel like they are 70% fluff and crap just fill a 10-15 min video. But I find your videos to be packed with great content throughout! Thank you Alec 😍
Loved this diversion but I’m about ready for a 76 part series of you making an 1897 infantry officer’s sword, with a blue and gilt blade, silver wire-wrapped shagreen grip &c &c
It's great to see old machinery like this given a second chance at doing what it does best. So much stuff is discarded without a bit of outside-the-box thinking to keep it going. I guessed it had cost a fair amount to get up and running as it looks like you had no money left for even a haircut by the end. Keep up the great content.
Coming from a ventilation engineer- I’d suggest I either mastic seal or at least foil tape all the joints on your extraction system so make it run at its most efficient minimising pressure loss, also maybe swap the blast gates for iris dampers for fine tune control 👌 Also make sure to do regular inspections of the inside, just as you might get build up of potentially combustible debris then following up slinging sparks up it from sanding etc 👍🏼 Very jealous of your workshop 😂
While the operating cost seems so large, one ought to also consider how much faster it is to work on it. If it makes forging things outside the oven twice faster, that in of itself also reduces the cost of heating. We won't even account for the salary of a blacksmith, but that also would enter the operating cost equation.
regular machine shops nowadays include a lot of cost benefit calculations with the runtimes of machines, and the cost of not running them but still having bought them (taking space in a rented workshop space, amortissment). the truth is Alec probably didn't need that hammer but it's still an interesting piece and at the end of the day he makes his money by creating interesting things (videos or objects), so having interesting things to show off still makes sense business wise.
@@Themoonisachees No absolutely not but as you said, this is a youtube channel at the forefront and the series generated about 7mil views at a quick glance with sponsors for every video. Im guessing this wasnt a loss overall although the titanic damascus pulls a lot more views, which isnt surprising i guess, but you could argue that he could have spent his time in a different way and earned more money. I think most fans of the channel really enjoyed this series though, maybe more than titanic damascus.
You might be able to run the steam hammer consuming less air by modifying the exhaust pressure. Currently it just blows into the room and has no output regulation. I am not sure if that is optimal (for its performance or its air efficiency). It might help to give it a little something to push against, so it will not lose all pressure after a cycle. Adding a pressure regulator after the exhaust might help. You could then set it to release the exhaust at a certain pressure (x% of input pressure) and try out some values. Then you can measure yourself how helpful it is.
Love you man! Your videos make me keep on going with my jewellery passion and although my hammers and anvils are tiny compared to yours I am thankfull for your videos that give me the passion for artisan works!
That pressure relief valve at 10:38 looks a bit small to me considering the rest of the system - are you sure it would keep up with the compressor output in case the compressor doesn't shut off correctly?
Came here to second that! That thing is tiny!! Even without the bushing in that tank a properly sized PRV likely wouldn’t fit in the system… Wouldn’t be a bad idea to install a larger one directly on the line.
Just a quick heads up warning about the couplings joining all the aluminum pneumatic lines. My last employer had the same style (I think they actually had Prevost branded parts) though possibly an earlier generation of fittings. The issue that came up was that after around two years, the o-rings all started leaking around the pipes, even though they were installed by a professional installation crew, supposedly to the correct tightness. I ended up going through the building and disassembling all the fittings, lubricating them slightly with some Nylog White (a heavy o-ring lube/sealant, probably silicone based.) Once the various leaky fittings were suitably slimed, there was no more leakage at the previously leaking couplings, and our compressors quit cycling so often.
I often machine hot tapping saddles for water pipes. Most often with an inbuilt spade valve, so you can hot tap and mount the valve with minimum leaks.
I love that you have gone through all the time, effort and expense to bring this old steam beast back to life and I love even more to watch it run! Great work Alec!
In our shop, we ran salvaged 4" galvanized steel pipe along the walls and tapped of it with a ¾" to each station. The 4" pipe acted like a huge compressed air tank buffer, keeping the pressure constant at each station. At each station, we had a T; the bottom had a ball valve to collect and drain moisture, and the side opening was a quick connect for the nail gun hose.
I really appreciate your transparency in sharing the cost of restoring and operating the steam hammer! It is definitely less fiscally efficient, but boy do I love that hammer - something about taking a beautiful old machine, restoring it, and running it off the modern version of the original power source is just beautiful
So stoked, you made another video of the shop upgrades! As a new subscriber, I am absolutely thrilled with your videos. Keep up the good work as I am learning a lot!
Great install on a very nice compressor, like others said if you would like more run time then you just need more volume. I did not notice a water seperator for the rest of your tools, the steam hammer obviously is going to love the moisture but the rest of your ait tools are not. Dont forget to drain your tank regularly, add a foot or so to all you downspouts with a valve so you can contain it to a spot and its not just blowing through your tools, a water seporator from your hard line to soft line befor ethe tool would also be benificial to keep your tools in good working order. Love the video's y'all make, looking forward to seeing what ypu come up with next! Have a blessed day.
The sheer power of that hammer is insane...a lapse in attention could mean failed parts pretty quick I bet... Glad you got this old machine running Alec... gives me inspiration to keep my metal lathe from the 1920's going...
I was recently at a blacksmith workshop in Slovenia and I'm pretty sure the guy also had a hammer working on air, it was like a museum in there. But honestly, I could be wrong, it was still a pretty cool experience.
so worth the investment in my opinion! it's just beautiful to see how you gave this almost historic machine another life and instead of letting it stand still in a museum (no shade, they are great) you actually use it, as was intended. ❤ congratulations to such an amazing tool and congratulations to you for taking the restauration apon yourself.
might also be a good idea to have a pressure valve around the hammer, so you can see the amount of available pressure whilst working, without having to look at the back of the workshop. unless you are planning to somehow upgrade your air storrage/suply so it can run for longer between heats, though it might still be confvenient to be able to quickly see if it is back to opperating pressures either way.
I love your enthusiasm and your content as well as your trips to some really interesting manufacturers. Come on over the top titanium experimental projects!
When drilling with a hole saw, large stepped bit, or any other bit that is likely to grab and tweak your wrists you should use your tightest clutch setting. It will be stiff enough to drill, but give just a little when you need it to! Saved my wrists loads of times.
You need BIGGER pressure relief valve with that size compressor. THE PUMP WILL OVERPOWER the one you have. Cheers and G'day from Tasmania. 40 years fitting pneumatics. Ran miles of pipe up to 8 inch. You can use a diesel powered portable compressor on a trailer! Most are quite running these days.Just need to pay fuel. You can hire one if you have a big run of material. I would plumb in a outside fitting to allow you to hook one up.
Goodnes Alec, you're such an inspiration! The energy, commitment and execution of your work ethic is beyond impressive! I caught myself wanting to like this video 6 times! Good stuff.
Used to sell a similar compressed air pipe system here in Australia; Branded for a local company. You DIDN'T mention filters or water/humidity control. With a system pushing that much air, especially w the steam hammer, you Will get water in your system. Huge amounts along the pipe between the compressor and the hammer. Get advice about that; short term, pipe the compressor in low on the tank, outlet high; that lets the tank be a water trap. But conpressing air concentrates the heat and moisture OF that air; hot, wet air will cool and condense as it travels. Down pipes are Also water traps; we teed tee'd our outlets on the pipe, so we could fit autodrain water traps below. Sooo... air and particles moving in a tube create static electricity. Wood shops ground their extractors because there is Always some places for dust to build up; one spark makes a lovely fire. Yours generally aren't flammable, but avoid the static shock; ground the tubes.
I dont know why but watching a dude build his shop to be better was so entertaining. Love this series you're doing and the work you put into all your videos!
I know it's obvious as you're a blacksmith. But I love seeing how if you need brackets you just make some. Whereas for me when I need brackets for my workshop I have to run down to B&Q. It's always fun seeing you make little simple things like brackets etc
That steam hammer chooches like no tomorrow! Saw another comment saying bigger air tank. There should be a way to change the setting for the low pressure to trip the compressor on. It would increase the run time of your compressor (look up the duty cycle of the compressor to make sure you don’t overdue it) but it may stretch the use time out a bit longer if you have a higher low pressure setting to trip the compressor to start refilling. And the heat cycles would be the test to make sure your compressor can fill the tank by the time the steel is done heating as someone else previously mentioned
For the strange fastener on the compresser they take a key but, I just cut down an old chisel to fit in the width and then cut a slot in the middle to go around the center pin. Kinda like a big thick screwdriver with a slot in the middle.
14:05 try googling double-Bit Key, they come in different sizes though. could ne a type of spanner key too. I think you can make one yourself. hollow tip with a wing on either side.
I recommend getting husky portable worklights with tripod. I know you won't really loose power to the shop but as someone with out a shop who is always moving lights they make things so much easier
"We've spent a lot of time talking about sucking, but now we need to talk about blowing" Please Alec, don't change. Like ever. Love your videos!
How did he get through that without laughing. I was rolling!
Between that and all the sexy Prevost pipe and fitting I think some viewers made need a cigarette! 😉
And he wasnt wrong when he said everything needs a little lube lol
I looked at the comments right away after he said that 😂
Then he opens up and shows off his new monster Siemens motor
😂
Smart sponsorship from Prevost.. that pipe systems looks NICE. Nice way to show 200k+ people just how quick and slick their system installs. Must have been a joy to work with.
And you just know Alec was 100% sincere in raving about the stuff, which is fantastic advertising for them.
I will be buying Prevost for my new factory install based upon this video
And thanks to Christopher, that company sort of got their money's worth out of it already
More like 2 million. But ya it was an excellent idea because it's not a commercial. It is in the video forever... more like a brilliant investment than idea lol
621K people as of 3 weeks later.
Also, Christopher do you really have a factory if so then let a man know if you are hiring?
The compressor might be good enough, but your air reserves might be lacking. You don't run the hammer non-stop, but you pause while heating. If you added another air tank, you will increase the full tilt runtime. The test for the compressor would be if it is finished topping off the tanks before the heating is done and you're ready to use the hammer again. Judging by this video, the compressor tops off the tank quickly. That would indicate the tank also empties quickly. Again, that shows that the tank is too small. The point is that an additional tank is much less expensive than a larger compressor. Or even a taller tank that sits in the same footprint but goes up to the ceiling
Also the tank should be as close to the hammer as possible, with a connecting hose that is slightly bigger than the port it is feeding into. same with the out port of the tank.
On this note, you might consider putting a second tank immediately behind the power hammer. It might not be an issue with the large diameter pipe, but the expansion tank near the hammer might lessen any effect of pressure decrease during flow from the piping.
The nice thing about this is that you can also wait for your budget and a sale to align. It's already fully functional, and patience can save you a bundle!
@@brandongraham3509 The gas draw of the hammer is most likely not steady also. There might be back and forth oscillations in the long pipe from the hammer valves slamming open and shut. I also wonder if a cubic meter tank behind the hammer would allow better airflow in the pipe by isolating the flow in the pipe from the effects of the valves in the hammer.
@@wombatillo that was my thinking. The air tank near the hammer would help isolate the line and act as a capacitor to isolate the main line and also minimize losses in the line due to the short run from the tank
"Borderline Professional" is a great description for about everything you do and it's amazing lol
Totally stolen
Alec! The prv on top of the yellow vessel is absoluteley not the right one by means of airflow quantity. It has to be at least the same amount, the compressor can deliver. Just a little hint from a german inspector. Stay safe.❤
Extra comment to hopefully boost this up as I was thinking the same but didn't know for sure, looks too small, as it looks much like one I'd use but just what flow rate is possible in that sort of size
@foldionepapyrus3441 it depends on the set pressure of the valve and the size of the orifice. I'd assume it's set around 150-200 psig, if you know what type of valve it is, you can look at some tables on the manufacturer's website to get your answer. For a little air valve like this, it's pretty easy to get the correct size. It gets complicated when you are dealing with anything else
for screw compressors i prefer burst discs. those compresor move lots of air, any malfunction due time on valves is a big no no in my book. i have seen enough air tank rockets for my time. get a burst disc plumb it up to outside. if it burst you just get a very large bang without damaging anything. 1st it warns you that your compressor shat the bed 2nd when a burst disc fails there is absolutely NO WAY you can build pressure in asystem.
@@dkongul Agreed on all points!
Listen to the German safety man please!
You should run coolent when dressing the wheel on the grinder, it cuts down on the dust and prolongs the life of the diamond. The diamond is also an extreme heat conductor transferring the heat to the metal around it making it expand as you traverse the grinding wheel this can result in a few microns across the wheel. I do centerless, centred, and other outer diameter grinding operation in a precision mechanical workshop where we usually work within tolerances of 10 micron sometimes smaller. For me it just feels wrong not using coolant while dressing.
You need to add if you want to use coolant when dressing it needs to be fed with high pressure directly on the diamond,
if you cant get perfect cooling its better to run it dry. The most important is to take small cuts so the diamond doesent heat too much and vaporize. The diamond Alec is using is completely burnt off.
Thank you so much for the info! Really appreciate it!
As long as the coolent overcomes the air barrier of the grinding wheel it will push coolent into the pores and carry it with the wheel. And it greatly cuts down on the dust.
@@AlecSteeleYou got a world of fans to pull info from. Bet thats a cool feeling :D. Keep at it homie. Itd be cool to work on a project with ya sometime!
it's called a Panel Key , it has four different shapes on it to open up electrical panels , it will work on the new compressor, it's a standard tool we use in the maintenance industry
Thank you! Came right up on Amazon with that, just ordered one! 🙏🏻
*COMMUNITY*
If you search for a Rittal key, you can get one that has a beer bottle opener built in…just saying…
@@kevinsnyder9376 priorities !!!
"Schaltschrankschlüssel" in german ... say that three times
You don't need it to run forever, just for a couple of minutes while the iron is hot. That means the problem isn't really that the air compressor is too small, but that you need more storage. Which is quite a bit cheaper to solve! lol
the jumpscare at 14:11 is one of the absolute most diabolical things ive ever seen. i had a mini heart attack. electricity is so scary
Was genuinely my favourite bit. I think I watched it four times in succession and laughed every time. Last one I think was tinkering with / testing / installing the new (old) machines. Love every one😅
As fun as it was watching Alec & Will, there's just something very comical and British with Alec & Jamie.
@@cocodojoA bit of Monty Python in the mix. 😂
@@cocodojoI’m so happy for Will doing his own thing but I miss those two working together. Throwing Jamie in the mix would be perfect
@@cocodojo it's because he talks like a little Victorian child 😂😂
Hey Alec, we have a ton of compressed air piping around work, you may have done it, but something we deal with a ton is condensation, to address that, we have a few pipes through the system with ball valves so we can purge any fluids out of the line on occasion.
Alec I am so glad you got that old Steam Hammer working again, you saved a valuable piece of engineering and history! You should be so proud of yourself!!
Absolutely agree!! Such an amazing piece of equipment and the fact Alec's fixed it and going to use it is just something really special!
Just astonishing how powerful that steam hammer is, how quickly it moves that steel. Even if it doesn't work for that long, the amount of work you can get done on it for that duration is still brilliant.
You have very rapidly become one of my favorite channels on youtube, it been great to learn so much by your work.
I watched your content a lot in the early UK days and during the he Montana time. Not so much in the last 3 years or so. But these steam powerhammer and shop upgrade videos pulled me back in. Restoring old machines and setting up a workshop never gets old. Keep it up :)
_Cost?_
I'm a grad student, and my field of research dabbles into a bit of business management. I am not an accountant or a financier, but I have a thing or two to say about costs.
Whenever I took courses in basic principles from the field, I felt humbled that so many things in the world hold properties and values that we can not measure and quantify, let alone convert said quantitative value into a fair monetary representation. Balance sheets often include the value of "intangible assets" in a corporation, and deciding what number to write into that account is barely better than glorified guesswork. No matter what material investments and codified procedures you tally up within an organization, in the end, the human element will be the judge of that because it always walks in last -- as if it were the judge who is always the last to enter the courtroom before any trial can start -- and throws a giant wrench at every calculus.
The whole point was to remember how hard and complicated it is to research real-world phenomena in human society because, unlike lab experiments in science and engineering, too many important variables in so-called social sciences are obscured to researchers and practitioners. But when it comes to your steam hammer restoration project, the cost-benefit calculus is made crystal clear rather than hard and complicated. As long as someone was not seriously hurt or your business didn't lose a ton of money to the point of bankruptcy, *that cost is negligible.*
You estimated the total restoration/installation cost to be around 13k GBP. You've also said that its estimated operating cost was around 74.40 GBP per six hours to power the thing, which is more than five times higher than your other hammers. The cost is not unreasonable because I can tell you what this steam hammer will cost you in context: it costs you *one metric South Korean.* The restoration cost you've spent is about the annual salary of a minimum wage worker in South Korea, and you've spent it in less than a year. The steam hammer's energy cost of 12.4 GBP per hour is about 23k KRW per hour. But unlike what you said about the steam hammer in 16:32, a Korean office worker who earns twice the minimum wage can't give you *hot steel,* let alone help you forge a billet of metal QR code.
And you are not even spending the totally-not-ridiculous payroll of a Korean office worker exclusively on that single machine. In a pencil-pusher's lingo, you've "created and accrued additional value in the form of primary and secondary capabilities." You have renovated electrical and pneumatic systems in your workshop. You've gained contacts you can rely on when you need to refurbish or replace heavy-duty machine parts in the future. You've looked through old patent documents, found schematics from their included drawings, and compared them with the physical machine right before you. I've never done such a thing when I had to work with patent documents myself, and I don't know a colleague on my floor who does it. Moreover, your Discord is filled with real people with real experiences. Services like ChatGPT can not give you the same kind of information and advice those people have given you, and it is *categorically* impossible for the next 5 years at a minimum because of how LLMs work.
Meanwhile, the whole process was published as a series of videos that, in total, gained millions of views. This means that while you've been restoring a rusty mass of iron and steel to its former glory, you've made thousands and thousands of people around the world spend their time watching your progress, which, when combined, will be of several orders of magnitude greater than the total time you've invested into this machine and TH-cam videos thereof. Try putting a "cost" to that.
This is my ode to big machines and videos of people working with big machines.
Thank you for taking ten hours of my life away from me.
17:28 and "Gosh, that is beautiful."
Jamie should edit the power hammer hits to make the "cha-ching" sound effect with little coins flying away.
or the Sonic "rings" sound effect
I was thinking Mario hitting a multi-coin block, but these are good options too
every hit is worth 1 penny probably
Dude I love that you do things the RIGHT way. THANKS PREVOST FOR HELPING MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!
Every time a steam hammer video releases I drop everything and watch it
Oh no, drop & power hammer mentioned 😂
2:12 that's what she said
if the compresor shuts down while you are reheating the metal, you can double your air storage, just add another tank. it will give you around %50 more work time.
I'd say it got to do with the distance to the tank as well, the lenght of the pipes takes a lot of punch because it has lot's of room to fill and distance to travel.
Was about to comment about adding a bigger tank. Probably the cheapest way to extend the peak output duration between heats.
@@CrazyManuel94 All those bends had me crying. Edit: I was thinking about the ducting not the compressed air.
@@PanoptesDreams you and every process engineer who’s done pressure drop calcs..
@@thorwaldjohanson2526 only works if the compressor can actually fill up the tank between heats
Hi Alec, Something to consider is that your tank will take a predefined pressure.. perhaps 150bar, so I cannot see your entire set up, but if you incorporate an intensifier, which is powered by your compressor, this will compress more air into your existing tank ( be careful that this does not over compress the defined limit of your existing small tank) then once there is let's say 120bar of super compressed air in the main tank ( I'll reiterate please check it's max permissable working pressure) then you regulate the air into your system to facilitate the operation of the steam hammer for more sustained periods of time. Your regulated requirement of CFM will be consistent, your compressor will be running a little more to run the intensifier, but it should be a much better system overall. Hopefully this all makes sense. And.. if this has already been considered then that's great. Best of luck. I've been in engineering a very long time, and it's lovely to see someone as young as you so enthused by all aspects of engineering. Keep it all up.
Hey Alex, just a quick bit of advice, I know you got the oiler on the steam hammer working for now, but since your running off of compressed air, there are some inline devices it might be good to up grade with. You can get compressed air automatic oilers that are normally used for air tools, but might be good for the hammer as well. You should also add some sort of water extraction method in the air compressed set up, especially since your using aluminum pipe. Alot of the internal pipe on your compressors is likely copper, and the mismatched metals can cause galvanic corrosion, which is accelerated by the presence of water. You probably don't need anything extreme like a desiccant filter or anything like that, just some automatic water drains on the low points, and an oil separator filter would do. Over all though, it looks great so far!
His name is Alec, not Alex.
@Heimdall1987 Sorry my bad, auto corrected
Tha Atlas Compressor is a FF or “Full function” machine, indicating it has an integral refrigerant dryer fitted from factory, so if working water shouldn’t be an issue
@Pricey143 Good to know
Those things you mentioned doesent make any difference. And galvanic corrotion only happens when two metals meet in a connection.
A water trap does nothing to lower the dew point.
We need more videos Alec!!! I've never been more excited for your videos than this titanium series. Everyday I go on TH-cam awaiting another vid from the series.
The videos for the last couple of months are the reason I started watching back in the day, glad to have some of the madness and experimentation back
Thank you for sharing this incredible project and being so transparent with the price. It was a fun journey ❤
Knipex makes a really nice universal key for all your locks called the twinkey. I really love mine!
I am so happy that I could watch this basically one year long project. It was a lot of greatly entertainting videos. Keep up the good work.
I love those "BANG" moments so much, they just crack me up every time ! 🤣
Same here, Jamie's such an amazing cinematographer, yet he's also got the ability to just scare the bejeebus outta Alec almost every single time 🤣
One thing I love about this channel is you do the projects that excite you. Not necessarily money makers, but your passion is contagious
Having done an air replumb of a shop using old technology, that Prevost push-to-fit stuff is super nice. Really cool of them to hook you up with the piping and tools.
Alec that's simply amazing the work you've put in order to get that steam power hammer working!! You're a genius and incredible at getting things done!!! Congrats, we cannot wait till you start really using that power steam hammer ‼️
Add another expansion tank and you might be able to get a little more runtime for less money than a bigger compressor. Awesome work as always Alec 🛠️
I've just suggested that he reviews the max permissable working pressure of that tank, as he could add a unit called and intensifies. This would super compressed the air in the tank, so that he can regulate the outgoing air to the system. Thus providing far greater run times from the same setup. But, if his tank isn't rated sufficiently it won't work.. looking at it, it looks like a 150 to 200 bar tank, plenty for him.
@@christopherbradford2133 man the pressure in the tank was only 125psi 14:24
his compressor can't do 150-200 bar that's on up there with scuba tank compressors [diff design]
April 27 20011, I was going through one of the worst years of my adult life. Getting diagnosed with a disease that forced me to retire from the trades. Experiencing horrible pain constantly. But I found a little kid beating hot steel on TH-cam. Seems almost half of your lifetime but to me it's just 13 short years. Thank you Alec , you are a prime example of the adage:
"If you do what you love you will never work a day in your life".
👍
Oh wow, I never even realised this channel is that old. That's so cool xD
Being a metal worker, i can tell you that you need something like this: "4-Wege-Multifunktionsschlüssel,Universeller Schaltschrankschlüssel,Multifunktionale Cross Key"😊 for your compressor
If you say "Schaltschrankschlüssel" three times in front of a mirror
a property manager might appear and ask you if you are okay.
@@Culpride 🤣
Steam hammer is an epic machine and workshop upgrades look great. I have a similar size compressor that i do sandblasting with, when was used in a shop we ran 2" or 50mm line for that sort of CFM an you really want direct lines to machines if possible with less 90s/bends due to help with pressure loss and i found personally expansion tanks were better suited at end of a line that inline especially if your pushing lots of air through a rotary pump as can slow down airspeed(i would consider getting bigger pressure release valve on expansion tank) and final thing you can buy valve so the system stays running but vents if not loaded as with the little amount of expansion tank you have will get filled up super quick and motors as you might know don't like turning on and off all the time
Keep up your hard work and appreciate what you do
Yeah, I was thinking Alec should add a tank right at the machine because of the pressure drop throughout the line under load.
"I've been installing some very serious piping in the workshop." And also some very serious LED backlighting along the pipes. And steel rack. And a few other places. Looks pretty cool!
Ayyo, Alec! Just now finding your channel, and I gotta say, I love it! Even just the stuff of you fixing up your shop, not making anything in particular, is just awesome to me. Cheers, mate!
Wow! That hammer is absolutely beautiful! It’s very surprising how much more powerful it is than the stanko as well. A 30 second duty cycle with a hammer that powerful doesn’t really seem too bad either, sure it could be better but that’s still really good. Could you ask the company who gave you all the piping for a discount code of some kind, that you can share with us in the next video? I’d love to replace some of my existing air lines in my shop with that stuff.
14:10 I was hoping for one of these moments. It makes sure Alex and the audience is ready for anything!
I would advise you to install an automatic condensate drain on your buffer tank like the EWD 50 by atlas copco.
If you want to work for a longer period of time you probably need an 120 gallon tank, the compressor is plenty powerful enough.
Also, the pressure relieve valve is too small and you should regularly blow out the air cooler of the compressor.
Your pipe installment was top notch but I didn't expect anything less from you.
I used to install Prevost Air, Water and Nitrogen lines.
That is quite a nice gift you received! Just about the best stuff you can get, I loved working with it.
(Small tip, use some glass cleaner inside the fitting before applying it to the tubing to lubricate the O-rings and it evaporates with little residue.)
2:07 thats a phrase I thought I'd never hear you say.. 😆
I think I am Gay by that comment
So you actually thought about it? That's disgusting man!
The amount of good content in your videos is a pleasure 🤩 some channels videos feel like they are 70% fluff and crap just fill a 10-15 min video.
But I find your videos to be packed with great content throughout!
Thank you Alec 😍
Loved this diversion but I’m about ready for a 76 part series of you making an 1897 infantry officer’s sword, with a blue and gilt blade, silver wire-wrapped shagreen grip &c &c
You might have to wait for the Titanium Damascus project, unless you want it made of titanium Damascus.
@@NeSeeger No, thanks. Even with that interface layer, I wouldn’t fancy a sword made out of that stuff.
I have followed this series from the beginning and I have loved the whole thing. What a beautiful machine!!
Alec's laugh always gets me. Reminds me of the crazy weasel's laugh from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" 10:08
It's great to see old machinery like this given a second chance at doing what it does best. So much stuff is discarded without a bit of outside-the-box thinking to keep it going. I guessed it had cost a fair amount to get up and running as it looks like you had no money left for even a haircut by the end. Keep up the great content.
I love seeing this. But add more air storage.
Coming from a ventilation engineer- I’d suggest I either mastic seal or at least foil tape all the joints on your extraction system so make it run at its most efficient minimising pressure loss, also maybe swap the blast gates for iris dampers for fine tune control 👌
Also make sure to do regular inspections of the inside, just as you might get build up of potentially combustible debris then following up slinging sparks up it from sanding etc 👍🏼
Very jealous of your workshop 😂
While the operating cost seems so large, one ought to also consider how much faster it is to work on it. If it makes forging things outside the oven twice faster, that in of itself also reduces the cost of heating. We won't even account for the salary of a blacksmith, but that also would enter the operating cost equation.
regular machine shops nowadays include a lot of cost benefit calculations with the runtimes of machines, and the cost of not running them but still having bought them (taking space in a rented workshop space, amortissment). the truth is Alec probably didn't need that hammer but it's still an interesting piece and at the end of the day he makes his money by creating interesting things (videos or objects), so having interesting things to show off still makes sense business wise.
@@Themoonisachees No absolutely not but as you said, this is a youtube channel at the forefront and the series generated about 7mil views at a quick glance with sponsors for every video. Im guessing this wasnt a loss overall although the titanic damascus pulls a lot more views, which isnt surprising i guess, but you could argue that he could have spent his time in a different way and earned more money. I think most fans of the channel really enjoyed this series though, maybe more than titanic damascus.
The way Alec jumps when Jamie yells...BANG!!! Gotta love the lunacy!!!
You might be able to run the steam hammer consuming less air by modifying the exhaust pressure. Currently it just blows into the room and has no output regulation. I am not sure if that is optimal (for its performance or its air efficiency). It might help to give it a little something to push against, so it will not lose all pressure after a cycle. Adding a pressure regulator after the exhaust might help. You could then set it to release the exhaust at a certain pressure (x% of input pressure) and try out some values. Then you can measure yourself how helpful it is.
Love you man! Your videos make me keep on going with my jewellery passion and although my hammers and anvils are tiny compared to yours I am thankfull for your videos that give me the passion for artisan works!
That pressure relief valve at 10:38 looks a bit small to me considering the rest of the system - are you sure it would keep up with the compressor output in case the compressor doesn't shut off correctly?
Came here to second that! That thing is tiny!! Even without the bushing in that tank a properly sized PRV likely wouldn’t fit in the system…
Wouldn’t be a bad idea to install a larger one directly on the line.
The compressor has its own pressure relief valve built-in, so it'll just vent at the compressor head, instead of overpressuring the rest of the system
Love that you used a piece of wood to test the hammer. Seeing it immediately pancake and splinter like that was very satisfying!
Just a quick heads up warning about the couplings joining all the aluminum pneumatic lines.
My last employer had the same style (I think they actually had Prevost branded parts) though possibly an earlier generation of fittings.
The issue that came up was that after around two years, the o-rings all started leaking around the pipes, even though they were installed by a professional installation crew, supposedly to the correct tightness.
I ended up going through the building and disassembling all the fittings, lubricating them slightly with some Nylog White (a heavy o-ring lube/sealant, probably silicone based.)
Once the various leaky fittings were suitably slimed, there was no more leakage at the previously leaking couplings, and our compressors quit cycling so often.
that piping system is VERY cool. As a journeyman plumber it looked like a ton more work than traditional methods haha. Glad it worked out for you!
16:37 so you'll be sticking solar on the roof and a battery in the back to top up that leccy bill?
I often machine hot tapping saddles for water pipes. Most often with an inbuilt spade valve, so you can hot tap and mount the valve with minimum leaks.
14:11 i was laughing so hard
I love that you have gone through all the time, effort and expense to bring this old steam beast back to life and I love even more to watch it run! Great work Alec!
This feels illegally early
In our shop, we ran salvaged 4" galvanized steel pipe along the walls and tapped of it with a ¾" to each station. The 4" pipe acted like a huge compressed air tank buffer, keeping the pressure constant at each station. At each station, we had a T; the bottom had a ball valve to collect and drain moisture, and the side opening was a quick connect for the nail gun hose.
I really appreciate your transparency in sharing the cost of restoring and operating the steam hammer! It is definitely less fiscally efficient, but boy do I love that hammer - something about taking a beautiful old machine, restoring it, and running it off the modern version of the original power source is just beautiful
So stoked, you made another video of the shop upgrades! As a new subscriber, I am absolutely thrilled with your videos. Keep up the good work as I am learning a lot!
amazing to see how far you and your shop have come!!
Awesome video. Watching Alec get so excited does something to the soul. Thank you sir and thank you so much for going over the costs.
Alec's laugh is the best. So excited and joyful.
Great install on a very nice compressor, like others said if you would like more run time then you just need more volume. I did not notice a water seperator for the rest of your tools, the steam hammer obviously is going to love the moisture but the rest of your ait tools are not. Dont forget to drain your tank regularly, add a foot or so to all you downspouts with a valve so you can contain it to a spot and its not just blowing through your tools, a water seporator from your hard line to soft line befor ethe tool would also be benificial to keep your tools in good working order. Love the video's y'all make, looking forward to seeing what ypu come up with next! Have a blessed day.
The sheer power of that hammer is insane...a lapse in attention could mean failed parts pretty quick I bet...
Glad you got this old machine running Alec...
gives me inspiration to keep my metal lathe from the 1920's going...
I was recently at a blacksmith workshop in Slovenia and I'm pretty sure the guy also had a hammer working on air, it was like a museum in there. But honestly, I could be wrong, it was still a pretty cool experience.
Oh wow, hammer ran way better on compressed air than I remember thinking it would after you ran it on steam. Absolutely ferocious.
so worth the investment in my opinion! it's just beautiful to see how you gave this almost historic machine another life and instead of letting it stand still in a museum (no shade, they are great) you actually use it, as was intended. ❤ congratulations to such an amazing tool and congratulations to you for taking the restauration apon yourself.
might also be a good idea to have a pressure valve around the hammer, so you can see the amount of available pressure whilst working, without having to look at the back of the workshop. unless you are planning to somehow upgrade your air storrage/suply so it can run for longer between heats, though it might still be confvenient to be able to quickly see if it is back to opperating pressures either way.
I love your enthusiasm and your content as well as your trips to some really interesting manufacturers. Come on over the top titanium experimental projects!
When drilling with a hole saw, large stepped bit, or any other bit that is likely to grab and tweak your wrists you should use your tightest clutch setting. It will be stiff enough to drill, but give just a little when you need it to! Saved my wrists loads of times.
You need BIGGER pressure relief valve with that size compressor. THE PUMP WILL OVERPOWER the one you have. Cheers and G'day from Tasmania. 40 years fitting pneumatics. Ran miles of pipe up to 8 inch. You can use a diesel powered portable compressor on a trailer! Most are quite running these days.Just need to pay fuel. You can hire one if you have a big run of material. I would plumb in a outside fitting to allow you to hook one up.
this was a blast to watch...you were happy and proud...thank you for sharing!
Goodnes Alec, you're such an inspiration! The energy, commitment and execution of your work ethic is beyond impressive! I caught myself wanting to like this video 6 times! Good stuff.
Used to sell a similar compressed air pipe system here in Australia; Branded for a local company.
You DIDN'T mention filters or water/humidity control. With a system pushing that much air, especially w the steam hammer, you Will get water in your system. Huge amounts along the pipe between the compressor and the hammer.
Get advice about that; short term, pipe the compressor in low on the tank, outlet high; that lets the tank be a water trap.
But conpressing air concentrates the heat and moisture OF that air; hot, wet air will cool and condense as it travels.
Down pipes are Also water traps; we teed tee'd our outlets on the pipe, so we could fit autodrain water traps below.
Sooo... air and particles moving in a tube create static electricity.
Wood shops ground their extractors because there is Always some places for dust to build up; one spark makes a lovely fire.
Yours generally aren't flammable, but avoid the static shock; ground the tubes.
It's a joy to watch Alec I just love how excited he gets with his work it's just inspiring🔥🔥
One of your best videos in awhile. The editing is on point with this one!
I dont know why but watching a dude build his shop to be better was so entertaining. Love this series you're doing and the work you put into all your videos!
Loved the stats at the end! It is super cool to get perspectives like that, please share info like that again when ya can 👍
I know it's obvious as you're a blacksmith. But I love seeing how if you need brackets you just make some. Whereas for me when I need brackets for my workshop I have to run down to B&Q. It's always fun seeing you make little simple things like brackets etc
That steam hammer chooches like no tomorrow! Saw another comment saying bigger air tank. There should be a way to change the setting for the low pressure to trip the compressor on. It would increase the run time of your compressor (look up the duty cycle of the compressor to make sure you don’t overdue it) but it may stretch the use time out a bit longer if you have a higher low pressure setting to trip the compressor to start refilling. And the heat cycles would be the test to make sure your compressor can fill the tank by the time the steel is done heating as someone else previously mentioned
For the strange fastener on the compresser they take a key but, I just cut down an old chisel to fit in the width and then cut a slot in the middle to go around the center pin. Kinda like a big thick screwdriver with a slot in the middle.
But to see the joy on your face, it’s worth every penny. I’ve enjoyed seeing you doing this restore.👍👍
I am sad that it wont handle a whole heat, but for the love of everything...that thing SLAPS!!!! Damn Alec. What an amazing project. You rock
It's been genuinely excellent watching your journey of getting this beast running
Absolutely incredible work. It was fun to watch through your journey with this power hammer.
Won’t lie, I loved the fireball tools clamps. Jason is a real one and makes some darn good tools!
I don't know why seeing you so happy makes me so happy, but I'm so happy that it does.
14:05 try googling double-Bit Key, they come in different sizes though.
could ne a type of spanner key too. I think you can make one yourself. hollow tip with a wing on either side.
I remember when you were making tiny knives in Montana and now you’re here. Well done, sir. Keep it up
Geez... Props on how much you got done by yourself.
Tremendous works and neat, kudos to you Alec!
The editing is superb. Nice work Jamie
steam hammers must be one of the coolest pieces of technology i know of. they're so old but surprisingly intricate and have so much power too
I recommend getting husky portable worklights with tripod. I know you won't really loose power to the shop but as someone with out a shop who is always moving lights they make things so much easier
I've got a stack of the keys for those cabinet locks, they have a bottle opener at the handle end, very practical.