A lot of people say that this is not representative because it looks too cute and happy but hey WE KNOW IT'S NOT THAT CUTE we literally live being rejected our hole lifes, we don't need to also see that in a show for entertainment. And above all, little queer people need to see that there is nothing wrong with them and they deserve a healthy love story. It's such a beautiful show, it changed my life ❤❤❤
And also; this was my experience. I grew up in the Netherlands and I did have such a positive experience so for some people it is this way, and I think it is a good example to support
Until recently I almost only knew 3 types of lesbian representing movies: a) at least one of them dies b) at least one of them decides to take the guy instead c) the stereotypical lesbian character is a flat written sidekick so the creators can wave a rainbow flag. Heartstopper and many other rather new shows and movies FINALLY have realistic, modern wlw relationships. I FINALLY feel represented. I don't need to see every lesbian die, thank you. And bonus points for the beautiful and wholesome representation of trans and ace in Heartstopper ❤
I always hated how so many horrible horror movies always relied on that horrible lesbian sex scene. Almost guarantee if it was a b-rate horror movie there was going to be at least one ridiculous scene with two women
I'm 33 now. But when I was 15 I told my mom I was Bi, sat her down to talk. And she looked me in the eye and said: it's a phase, you'll grow out of it. Got up and walked away. We never spoke about it again. I'm still Bi. And I don't speak to my mother anymore. She doesn't seem eher grandchildren either.
I know it's not much but I send you love and empathy.❤ If you felt your mother would not be able to be more open-minded and accept you for who you are, it's probably better that you and your children are not around her anymore. I am in a quite similar situation. Acceptance is respect of humanity. Not having it from our own mother is tough. We have to be who we are and love ourself for that, even if our mother doesn't. I hope you are surrounded by accepting and loving people.❤
My mother; in public when I was a teen, told me to my face that if I ever came out as anything other than straight I wouldn’t have a home or a family anymore. I’m a lesbian. Haven’t spoken to any of my family (they’re all Jehovah’s Witnesses) in years. To be an ally; understand that some of us have no one except our friends. Be kind, be loyal, understand that yes- it’s not the only thing we are but it is a huge deal. Please don’t get upset when it is a big deal. Sexuality is a big deal because of what we have to deal with to be ourselves. That’s what I wish I saw more of
I’m so sorry that happened to you and I hope you have a good support system now 😊 x I’m bi and basically waited for most of my family to pass away before I said anything. I think my Gran knew in my twenties, she had dementia and was just the sweetest person. She used to say I should be out dancing, no matter who it was with and then gave me the sweetest knowing smile. She was funny like that, just picked up on things super easily. It was like her super power.
I'm so sorry I understand me and my family are christians aswell but I'm bisexual I had a hard time coming out to my mom I told her once I thought she forgot I told her a second time I thought she forgot and this year I told her a third time she said she knew but then something happened cause she broke her ankle and let's just say she said "well then your not really bi-" I cut her off and said "ITS NOT THE SAME ITS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT" well I didn't yell but my voice was raised a bit but yeah we are ok now but still it fucked me up a bit but coming out to my dad was so fucking easy he is like me best friend and is chill ASF I love my father he is the best
a lot of the criticism levied against heartstopper is that it is too wholesome and pg and that it is unrealistic. but what is so important for young queer people including myself is to have representation like this that can show the happy sides of being queer. it shows us that even if we aren’t in a good situation now, queer joy is a possibility and we can have happy healthy relationships like nick and charlie. plus, the show also gets critiqued for not including sex but 1. they are 15/16 years old and 2. LGBTQ+ is NOT inherently sexual. queer relationships can just be lovey dovey romance like heartstopper instead of past representation where it has been depicted with lots of unnecessary sex scenes.
During truth and dare, there was a great opportunity to point out Issac’s asexual identity that, while in its beginning stage, it’s starting to surface. He’s not sure who or even if he’s attracted to anyone. Our default assumption is that he must be attracted to someone. While not part of the community, I think it’s important to recognize that part.
Ace and aro ppl are a part of the community? Also Isaac is not only ace, he has also been confirmed (outside of the show, hinted in the show) to aromantic! Ps: sorry if this felt aggressive or smthing, I'm just tired of seeing ppl (unintentionally) erasing Isaac's aromantic identity and pretending that the A in LGBTQAI+ doesn't stand for ace, aro & agender
As a 68 year old gay man, I have found that we're never really done coming out; it's surprising how often I have to do so even now. I resonate so much with the scene between Nick and his mom, and I tear up every time I watch it. She does all the right things: giving her full attention to her son when she realizes he has something important to say. And again when she says she's sorry if she ever made him feel like he couldn't tell her. Coming out is indeed a major life marker for most in the LGBT community, but I believe even straight people need to "come out," because coming out is about deciding to be authentic and comfortable in your own skin.
For people who want to be allies: call out homophobia, transphobia, biphobia wherever you see it, even if there's not an LGBTQIA person there. ESPECIALLY if there's not. Some people think they can get away with stuff like that when they think they're around other straight cisgender people, but they need to know it's unacceptable at all times.
I’ve called out coworkers for this behavior before one of which said if someone in his family came out as trans then they’d essentially be kicked out of the family I had some things to say about that and the next time he saw me he asked if I was still mad at him like yes I am and I always will be for your narrow minded views!
This is so important! Cis people need to stand up against transphobia. Straight people need to speak out against homophobia. Whyte people need to call out racism when they see it. Citizens need to take a stand against xenophobia.
To put in a nutshell, all humans should fight intolerance. We are all in this together. Hope more and more people realize this. And if they don't, tell them it could be their brother, their mom,, their friend, their kid who could suffer from discrimination. Good shows/ books like Heartstopper help educate people.🍃
I am aroace which I found out when I was 15 or 16 years old. I definitely experienced the younger generations to be more open, more accepting, though I don’t have that many people I felt the need to tell. None of them knew about aromance and asexuality, but the teens in my life simply accepted it. For some, it was obvious that it was a kind of weird concept, to never feel any kind of attraction, but it was also obvious that they only felt like this because it was new for them. My mom needed some time to understand that this is an actual sexuality, but she’s now fine with it. Unfortunately, my dad does not believe this. He only told me, that “he was that too, when he was my age” - I’ve never directly addressed my sexuality to him again. But at least he doesn’t make any comments now, if he ever hears me mentioning my sexuality. My advice for those who want to be allies is: Believe us. If you don’t understand something, that is totally fine. You can ask questions. But please just believe that what we tell you, what we experience - it is the truth.
Hello fellow ace i came on here to write thesame thing almost exactly From younger generation people accepting it easier but still really not getting what it was at first. To my dad not believing me either and "That it isn't a real thing and just a phase ill grow out of once I meet the right person" comments . That biggest thing is to believe that it is real and that its part of who we are dont dismiss it just cause you may not get "how it works " is the best way to be an ally.
"But please just believe that what we tell you, what we experience - it is the truth." Yes! Thank you! I am aro and am on the ace spectrum. I am also pan. (I sometimes describe myself as a gray pansexual.) I extremely rarely experience sexual attraction and have even less of a desire to act on it, but when I do, gender is not a factor to me. The majority don't understand and I am not surprised by that. I do really dislike it when people decide that people on ace (or aro) spectrum are one or the other, but not both. Especially after it is explained to them. This is related, but does not just apply to allies. I wish that people realized that there are multiple forms of attraction. Sexual, romantic, physical, emotional, and aesthetic attraction are different things and others can experience none, all, or any combination of them. I literally had to explain this to a queer person a week ago when they decided to proclaim that it is an all or nothing situation for everyone when someone asked for a clarification on a comment they made. I told them they are free to talk about their attractions, but please don't make definitive statements about other people's attractions.
…omg…this. Demiromantic Asexual. Also…I get far more trouble with either being told that having romance Sometimes means “I actually Just want A Close Friendship” (no, it feels different. and I shouldn’t feel pressured to kiss or have sex to “prove” it)…or…literal hate for…how I “can’t use aroace” when…I am ace…and demiromantic is part of the aromantic spectrum…and besides from Grey and Demi there are…other microlabels…like Angled and Oriented specific to Aroace…and…more. I am. So weary. Of the blatant Assumption that Anything But 0% Romo AND 0% Sexy Attraction Times… is… “not ace enough.” …I swear there’s more resources and support for Aces Who Choose To Have Sex or Grey/Demi Asexuals than…there is for Romantic Aces and Grey/Demi Aromantic Asexuals.
I am also Aroace, I realised this after watching a video about someone else never feeling romantic or sexual feelings towards anyone from middle school to university. After that, I sort of realised that I was Aroace because I never crushed on anyone from primary school onward, outside of close platonic friendships. Watching that video was probably the moment when it clicked with me that I was Aroace because I could resonate with the youtuber's feelings. I'll drop that video in the comments too🤗 #Aroace🤗💖
I'm 28, and I didn’t realize I was bi until this year. I was raised über-conservative, so I was completely ignorant of the LGBT existence until I graduated from college. I didn’t even have a concept that I might be bi even though I've clearly had female crushes my whole life. Turns out it was probably for the best that I didn’t know. My mom's side of the family treats me differently now. If that had happened while I was growing up, it probably would have made my trauma much worse.
Thanks for sharing! I had a similar experience, my mam's side just pretended I'd not said anything. I hope you find acceptance with people you feel comfortable around x
I’m much older and realized within the last 4-5 years that I’m bi. I just brushed aside my crushes on girls and women. I focused on the side of me that likes guys. I just never identified the feelings I had for women. Watching Heartstopper and other shows with bi representation helped me acknowledge that side of me.
1:48 Isaac doesn’t have a celebrity crush because he’s asexual and aromantic. As someone who’s on the ace spectrum myself, I’m the same way. I can obviously recognize when a celebrity is attractive or when they seem to be a good person, but I’ve never had that kind of crush on anybody. When I was younger, I’d just pick someone who seemed appropriate if the subject came up.
Friendly reminder/spoiler: Isaac, the “I haven’t had a celebrity crush” identifies as asexual later in the season, so it’s probably true that he never had a celebrity crush
As someone who's bisexual I wanted to kind of throw it out there that we sometimes at least in my experience get just as much judgment from other LGBT people. The first time I ever actually felt judged for being bisexual was from a very very very very very very very very very very very very very very gay man. And it was very surprising to me.
Oh I feel this. The most biphobic things ever said to me were from a lesbian schoolmate. It felt even more hurtful coming from someone within the community.
Omg right?? When our politicians gere were saying “gays and lesbians” and “gay and lesbian people” constantly in reference to same sex marriage here, when I said how awful it was to be consistently left out of the conversation, a lesbian told me I should be grateful. Just because we might get rights we didn’t have before. Just because I mentioned that the conversation around the issue had consistently ignored all the other groups that needed marriage equality.
I love how Nick’s mom said “you don’t have to say you like girls if you don’t”. A lot of people who come how test the waters and use bisexuality to do that. Nick’s mom gave him agency to let him know if he’s doing that, it’s okay and if he is bi, that’s okay too. It teaches people how they should react when someone comes out to them. It’s both a big deal and a small deal. Altogether, it should be a beautiful moment.
Just curious if you’re planning to talk at all about Charlie’s mental health and how the show deals with it? The emotional intimacy between Charlie and Nick at the end of ep 8 is just gorgeous. I feel like there’s a lot of “meat” there.
Yes! Queer relationships and queer lives don't HAVE to be tragic ALL THE TIME. We deserve to have sweet teenage romances too. Fiction offers a bit of an escape, and honestly, Nick coming out to his mom was healing for me to see. As a bisexual girl, my coming out wasn't awful, but not good either. I was treated as if I was just pretending and it took my mom quite a while to realize and accept that I am, in fact, bisexual. Nick's Coming Out was the one I dreamed of, but never got. That scene makes my heart ache in a good way. And all the sweet, romantic interactions between Nick and Charlie, all that genuine, innocent love is just as real for us. Who's to say only straight people get to have that in books or TV? Heartstopper helped me forget all the horrible homophobia I've experienced, at least for a little while. It felt safe.
I love how this show covers all types of sexualities, especially Allyship. Even supporting the LGBTQA Plus Community can be insanely rewarding. I'm a proud ally, and so are many of my friends! ❤️🥰🏳️🌈
Just FYI, being an ally isn't really considered a sexuality/lgbtqia+ identity. Some people might take offense to that. But thanks for learning and being an ally!
Yep no, allyship is not a sexuality. On another note, I've been an ally for à long time without being fully aware of it. I just felt I was tolerant and it was normal. And one of my best friends came out to me. I was the second person he told. I was so moved and honored and happy for him I almost cried. I realize even more than before how important allyship is. I still think it's just open-mind and should be normal for everyone, but it isn't.
While it is true that allyship isn't itself a sexuality or sexual orientation or gender identity or such in the way that actually being lgbtqia+ is-I think it's a little silly to feel the need to argue about the semantics of this and/or to be offended by acknowledging allies as a unique class of their own. It's not as if everyone actually is an ally, and it's not as if people never get bullied or attacked or discriminated against and such even just for being allies very similarly to how they could be for actually being lgbtqia+ themselves as well. I personally believe that the whole entire point of having an lgbtqia+ community shouldn't be just setting apart how different or unique everyone's identities and/or experiences can be but should instead be about bringing EVERYONE _together_ as one whole singular *united* community[ and/or acknowledging everyone as all being equal parts of *_humanity_* as a whole with equal value and worth in general] even in spite of all their differences and/or unique individualities &/or experiences or identities and all. And even though I respect the perspectives of those who might be offended or concerned and I fully acknowledge and understand why it can sometimes be harmful to conflate being an ally too closely together with actually being non-cis/non-het/non-allo[/etc.] oneself, I don't personally believe that merely including allies as a part of the greater lgbtqia+ community as a whole necessarily always does have to be doing that any more than saying that all the other sexualities/orientations/identities[ or etc.] are all part of one same greater lgbtqia+ community actually is or has to be the same thing as claiming that being any of those letters in the lgbtqia+ alphabet is zero different from and/or the literal exact same thing as being any other letter in that alphabet is either. But I'm sure that it is actually possible for some individuals' whole entire identities to be centered entirely around being an ally(or for being an ally to not really be so much a conscious choice as it was literally just a natural part of who they are as a person to simply not disinclude or discriminate against others). Much like there are plenty of other lgbtqia+ people who don't actually feel like their sexualities or genders and such are actually their whole entire identities either(or who do actually feel like their sexuality or gender and such was actually much more of a choice for them personally than it is or was for many other persons), who actually could find the implication that being lgbtqia+ is their whole identity to be offensive as well. I don't think it should really matter whether people's whole entire identities are being lgbtqia+ or being an ally or not(Nor should it[ in my opinion] really matter all that terribly much nor make any real difference to anything at all, whether any of it actually is a choice, or is simply some innate part of them which is just naturally ingrained into them since birth, or not , either); not to mention it is possible that the original commenter might not have been even trying to imply that allyship was the literal same kind of identity as being lgbtqia+ in the first place, it could be possible they just don't have perfect eloquence or perfect grammar(and English may or may not even be their first language) and it may have just come across that way entirely by accident. But maybe that's just me and my own personal way of looking at things. 🤷♀️🤷 🙂
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 The issue is that the A is for asexuals, aromantics, and agender. Making it “A for Ally” is a very real issue used to bar these orientations away from LGBTQIA+ spaces. Also no one here was disrespectful, they gently corrected Sincerely, a demiromantic asexual (ie, a AA Battery.)
@@spacecat8511 I never accused anyone here of being disrespectful, though. And I also acknowledged that there are valid issues, too. I never said that the A in lgbtqia+ should stand for Ally, just that I think it's fine to consider Allies as a part of the extended community(because a community can be built out of more than just the individuals of very specific peoples groups only - communities can also be formed by individuals from different peoples groups coming and unifying together) even if not necessarily specifically a part of the LGBTQIA+ alphabet; and even though allyship is certainly not a sexuality, and/or/ even if you don't personally consider it a queer(or non-cis/non-het/non-allo/etc.) identity specifically, that doesn't necessarily mean it can't actually be either some persons' whole identity or something that they someone was innately born with as a core part of who they are as a person rather than something they learned or consciously chose-because there is a difference between a sexuality and an identity, a person's sexuality is not always their whole entire identity, and a person's identity is not always just their sexuality. But including an A for Allies in the LGBTQIA+ alphabet actually wouldn't have to mean excluding one for Asexuals or Aromantics, despite the fact that some people do unfortunately try and use it that way, but what terrible people do with it does not necessarily always have to define or control what other people do with it-this would not be all that different from using 'nerd' or 'queer' or 'gay' in neutral or positive or reclaimed senses rather than as negative or derogatory slurs. I also pointed out the fact that it is not completely impossible that it may have been a mere miscommunication and not an actual misinformed belief that needed correction-and if what was being corrected isn't actually what the original commenter was even trying to say at all, correcting them about isn't going to correct anything, it's just going to make them feel attacked for accidentally phrasing what they were trying to say in a way that ended up coming across differently than they had meant it to. Even if you are being gentle and 100% respectful, it's still not impossible that you can sometimes still have negative impacts on others. Sincerely, a bi graysexual.
I'm a queer person, and I for one love that this tends to focus on the good parts of being queer. When I came out to my mom, I had the expectation that it wouldn't be at all good, largely because I grew up just before queer characters were portrayed at all well, so I prepared myself for the worst, which is funny, in retrospect, because I told her and she reacts wonderfully supportive and calmly. If I grew up with this, I know that my expectations would be entirely different and they'd have been positive, if slightly nervous. Besides, it's nice for the queer community to not be bludgeoned by the truth that there are people out there who want us to be harmed, simply for loving differently than they would for once, It's awesome.
*My good sir, you are a fantastic ally. You speak about queerness in respectful ways. You invite input/correction from those of us in the community. And I think these two scenes demonstrate allyship beautifully. *Disclaimer: I'm no angel, I was kinda homophobic in my younger days. Glad I expanded my mindset before having kids! *I've had the opportunity to experience allyship from both sides. When my eldest was figuring out their sexuality and gender, I honestly don't remember what I even said, exactly. I remember being really low-key, and just kind of "Okay. I'm glad you let me know." and hugs. With my youngest, I was literally right there to see the look on her face (we were watching a video of trans/egg memes) when she realized that "not all little boys dream of growing up to be women." Hugs and some tears of relief, because now we knew why she'd been struggling so much. We were watching another meme video (bisexual ones this time) when I 🤯. I processed for a little while, and then told my daughter that I realized I'm bisexual. Her response: "Yeah, and...?" And we both laughed. Then I called my eldest, and their reaction was EXACTLY THE SAME! *Just as important as accepting someone, is respecting if they're not ready to be out yet. FOR ANY REASON.* I had to continuously misgender and deadname my daughter, at her insistence, because she just wasn't ready. For 3 years.
I grew up in a Right-Wing American town in the 80s and 90s. If I had come out as gay in high school, I would have faced ridicule, violence, and would not have the support or protection of any authority figure. Living and loving the way I was meant to would have been suicidal. I'm still dealing with fear and self-doubt all these years later from knowing that everyone around me would hate me if they knew me. Heartstopper might as well be science-fiction to me. These kids might as well be living on floating cities in outer space for how much I can identify with their experiences. When I first watched Heartstopper, I was stunned. I couldn't process the idea of gay children being loved and accepted by their peers and family. I cried a lot watching it. Then I processed it a bit and became incredibly envious of the characters, and of kids that get to live in a world similar to that depicted in the show. I got pretty bitter too, as it brought up how lonely and awful my childhood was. Now, I just love everyone involved. We've had enough negative, dark, tragic, horrible depictions of queer people in pop culture. So critics of Heartstopper being too light or unrealistically positive, can just go watch the overwhelming majority of queer works that are unrealistically negative and punishing, and ask themselves, why can't there occasionally be an exception? I'm so happy that shows like this can exist now, and that queer kids get to see themselves in a positive light, and having positive experiences in pop-culture. Because queer kids need to know that they deserve to be happy. That's what Heartstopper does. That's it's purpose.
I know it’s not the point of the scene, but I just have to say that the spin the bottle scene was a great reminder of one of the reasons I love the character of Tao. He is a straight kid with a gay best friend and dating a trans girl. There are all these rumors going around about who gave his gay best friend a hickey but despite that he kisses him during the game, no issue whatsoever. He is completely secure in his sexuality.
1:49 I actually really relate to this line because I, too, do not have a celebrity crush. I have ones I admire and think are cool but none that is it. I identify as demi (on the ace spectrum) so I require a deep personal connection to someone to develop a crush on them, and for me, that condition isn't met through whatever means I "interact" with a celebrity.
I’m 22 now but I realized I was bi when I was 16. I immediately came out to my friends/ school mates because I knew it was just a non factor. People really did not care at all. At home I didn’t come out until 18 because I was afraid of what my parents would say. They also ended up not caring so it turned out as well as it could’ve I think.
I mean...I came out to my friends and they were like "Wait, what do you mean you *Just realized* you are asexual and biromantic?! 🤣" When I came out to my Mom, she had questions about what being Ace means and what being Biromantic means. She is 100% supportive, and she always asks questions about how she can support others in the LGBTQIA+ community ❤️
Hi, if you feel comfortable, could you elaborate on your sexual and romantic identity? I think that I might be asexual and biromantic too, but I have no idea how to be sure, especially since I don’t have any comparisons. How did you know? How do I tell the difference between sexual and romantic attraction? What does it mean if I want to kiss someone, but not have sex with them? I would be so grateful if you could share some of your experiences. ❤
@@kajsakonigk1982 How did I know I was asexual and biromantic? Honestly, I had no idea those existed. I only knew I had zero desire for a romantic relationship, I cared only about college and my friends. My friends are all members of the LGBTQIA+, so I learned about a lot of them from them coming out to me and helping me understand them. My boyfriend is the one who asked me, "Do you think you might be asexual and biromantic?" and together we looked into it and I agreed that fit me ❤️ How to tell the difference between romantic and sexual attraction? So I can only speak for myself. I always phrase it like "I find men and women very beautiful and I want to give them hugs and spoil them with compliments. I will feel my heart skip beats and I get butterflies in my belly--even after 13 years now with my boyfriend ❤️ However, I have no desire to act on these feelings, no "tug" that makes me want to do things." What does it mean if I want to kiss someone, but not have sex with them? This is honestly only a question you can answer. I can tell you that these feelings are perfectly valid and that you are not the only one who feels these things. Hope this helped ❤️ I encourage you to do your own research and whatever you decide, know that you are loved and I'm so proud of you 💖
@@ravenclawfairy3648 Thank you so much for your thorough answers and kind words! It means the world to me that you took the time for all of that. 🥹 I can relate a lot to the feeling of finding both men and women beautiful. I would say that I find them “aesthetically pleasing” but I don’t really know what to make out of that feeling - like you described, I have no desire to act upon it. However, I could imagine hugging/kissing both genders (but unrelated to their appearance, I think?), so I still struggle to understand what that means in terms of sexuality. Do you think that kissing falls under sexual acts? Or can it simply be a display of romantic feelings? Or does everyone have to decide that individually? I’m so happy to hear that you seem to have such a great and supportive friend group! That seems like such a wholesome, safe space to get to know yourself☺️. I honestly think that I will never come out (even once I’ve figured myself out) since my parents aren’t that supportive when it comes to this topic. So maybe it would be better to just ignore all of this, since I can’t do anything about it anyway. But on the other hand, I really want to understand myself. I guess that I just feel really lost. Thank you again for your reply! I hope you’re doing well. 🥰
My full identity is aesthetically attracted biromantic asexual. I find men and women pleasing to look at based on their personal aesthetic types; their personalities/souls and their hearts. So since you mentioned "aesthetically pleasing" that is an example of aesthetic attraction. So, for me and my partner, kissing is not a sexual act. It's simply one method to express our love. A method that my boyfriend enjoys more than me. I prefer hugs and cuddles. Yes, what counts as "sexual acts" is based on what each individual couple decides it means. Sure, the media and books, etc. have the popular examples of those things, however it's is up to each couple to decide what is and isn't allowed. That is perfectly okay if you never wish to come out. Especially if your environment is not going to be supportive/it is dangerous for you to come out. Only you can decide if you ever will, and that is perfectly fine. I would encourage you to do research, to help you understand yourself like you mentioned you want to. Whatever you decide, know that you are appreciated and supported ❤️
@@ravenclawfairy3648 Thank you for explaining all of that to me! I think that I also feel that kissing isn’t a sexual act - I just used to think that it was “decided” that kissing was sexual, so it really confused me why I want kisses but also feel asexual. 😅 Your explanation of it was really great and helped a lot! And thank you so much for the support and understanding. 🥺💚 It truly means so much to me.
1:50 I don't watch the show, but have heard A LOT of talk about Isaac being asexual representation. This little bit of "oh...I don't have one" certainly hits that note because he definitely knows his feels of a crush and the groups are very different. It might be easier to say he doesn't have one or he really doesn't have one. As a fellow ace, this little bit is so needed of a kid wanting to be a part but feeling that disconnect when talking about certain topics.
While the gang is generally accepting of Nick, it should be noted that he was actually forced out by the persistent nagging of that random girl who serves to play the bad guy. Even though it's Tara's party, no one tells that girl to stop it. It's only there to show Ben's reaction. Random girl pushes and pushes and pushes, but it never seems to get a comment.
Ppl tell her to stop it. Tao and Elle and Darcy and Tara(and maybe James and a few ppl i think...) but she keeps nagging. In the end he said it, i mean he could've told her to shut it but that woul've probably been an admission for that girl. Not that there's anything wrong with being Bi or excusing her, she defnitly should've just shut up
@@Newest_editsjustbecause But not Darcy nor Tara. They could have said "Hey, these are my friends and this is Tara's party, so don't ruin it. I want you to leave right now. Follow Ben right out."
I feel like allyship, along with what you’ve said about love and acceptance, is really about being clear that you are a safe person to be who you are around and express your feelings on your identity and place in society… like the norms are so hetero coded that we really have to actively work against them by consistently reassuring everyone (not just lgbt) that you are open to listening and understanding and and talking and it’s not uncomfortable or weird.
My impression was Charlie was the first boy he was attracted to and he just didn't know he was bi before. Teens are a pretty 'normal' age for figuring out your sexuality. He may not have been repressing anything, he may just not have felt it or realised before so then it took him a bit of time to figure out and process what it means for him (from first feeling attraction) although orientation is inate people are not always aware of it their whole lives or from very young, it takes longer for some people and its not always coz of repression although obviously that can often be the case. There are chrisitians and churches and Christian denominations that are fully inclusive to the lgbt community, queer christians also exist and I think it does matter whether you 'agree with' them. Not 'agreeing with' queerness is inherently dehumanising (from a bisexual christian) you said it doesn't matter whether you agree with people you can still treat them well, it does matter, because not agreeing with who people are is inherently dehumanising, and its never ok for people's humanity to be up for debate
yeah, I think what he said here about Nick "putting down" or "suppressing" his attraction to men is an example of how straight people can never really know what it's like to be queer (or in this case, bi), but it could also be him trying to simplify something that would usually take a lot longer to explain since it's quite a complicated subject. but on the other hand, he isn't entirely wrong either - at least in my opinion (both as a viewer of the show, and as a bisexual person myself). the thing is, that could have been what Nick was doing on some level, but the key thing is whether he was doing it consciously or not, and given how the series showed Nick's journey to realising he was bi, I'd say he did it subconsciously (if he even did it at all). Nick mentioned in 2x08 how he used to have a crush on his rugby instructor, and even acted on it since he tried to impress him and stuff, but also how he only realised it was a crush as he was talking about him in that moment. so he's clearly been attracted to guys before meeting Charlie, he just either truly wasn't aware that those feelings were romantic attraction, didn't think twice about them (hello heteronormativity), ooor he /did/ realise those feelings for what they were subconsciously and suppressed them, because "whoa this isn't what 'normal' people feel, abort, abort, think about something else, focus on a pretty girl instead!" and then bam, that thought/feeling has been suppressed without you even actively thinking about it or maybe even remembering doing it (or at least that's how it was for me, but I only remembered moments of me doing it and realising that that's what I was doing after actually coing to terms with my sexuality). but then with Charlie, those thoughts/feelings happened repeatedly and became harder to ignore, so it was only then Nick decided to actually listen to them and be like "okay, something might not be right here... am I gay?" and then the whooole journey starts lmao
@@tova1412 Once I finally moved from "functionally straight" (I'm in a long-term het relationship) to "ok fine I'm bi," I thought I was one of those people that had a strong gender preference with only occasional variation. Once I accepted my sexuality and effectively gave myself permission to experience same-sex attraction, I realize it happened to me a lot more than I thought. Add the bi-cycle to the mix, and I honestly couldn't tell you what my "percentages" are. The unconscious suppression of feelings is a very real struggle, and with all of the lies and misconceptions floating around about bisexuality, it's no wonder so many bis don't come to terms with themselves until well into adulthood. In my case, as a woman, I had to deal with the simultaneous "Well, all women are a little bi...women are just so beautiful, even other women can't help but love them!" and "Well, girls just do that sometimes to be edgy or to make themselves look hot." It was really hard to sort out my feelings when I was younger, and I always just assumed I was feeling something other than what I was actually feeling, like admiration. No, staring at another girl in class when you think no one's looking is not simply "admiration."
@@danieloneal7137 YES. The author herself, as well as the actor, said that Nick had believed all his life (until he met Charlie) that he was straight. It never was a question in his mind. His friends and family also assumed him to be straight. He had had a crush on Tara when he was about 13 and he says in one episode that he had liked girls before. If he had always believed he was straight, then having crushes on girls would have been what he expected (given the heteronormativity of the general society). So any attractions to boys probably could have flown past his radar. It was his friendship with Charlie, with whom he could really be comfortable and (as his mom said) be more himself --- that he started to have WTF moments that caused him to consider that he might be other than straight. At first, he wondered if he was gay, but that did not fit his experience. He did some research and found out what bisexuality was and eventually claimed that as his sexual identity. (But even that took a while for him to be clear on.) And yes, at the end of the second season, he tells Charlie the story of going to Rugby Summer Camp. And yes he says that he had a crush on the teacher/coach. He says that he did not realize it at the time, but that now (after learning more about himself) , by looking back, he could see it. *** *** *** I can say that I and another family member have had similar experiences. Speaking for myself, I was not a person to repress feeling occasional same sex attractions as an adult. My reaction to the thoughts were along the lines of "Well, that happened" -- meaning that I had had thoughts and feelings that I had not expected, but I just accepted that they were there. Unfortunately, being a young adult in the 1970s, I had trouble figuring out what to label myself. The ignorance and prejudices of the time about the label bisexual confused the issue. People said that bisexuality did not exist, or that it was a way to escape admitting you were gay, or that it was 'trendy' or that you just wanted to be promiscuous. Well, none of that fit my thoughts and experiences. And the natural linguistic thing to do is if you can't find the right word for an experience, you can make up your own. So for quite a while, I called myself "Straight AND Gay" (Please don't laugh) But as a means to communicate easily, well, that did not work -- I was still stuck going into longer explanations to whomever I felt like telling. But using my own 'word' for it, I began thinking back throughout my life and seeing the times I had crushes on girls (celebrities and people I'd met) -- but I could only see them in retrospect. I'm 72 now, and after watching Heartstopper, I have felt encouraged to take my time and work out for myself what kind of label to use, if any. And because of how bisexuality is discussed and represented in that show, I've decided that like Nick, I too am bi, actually.😊 *** *** *** And now, I'm seeing more clearly just how much bi-erasure there is. But that's a topic for another post...
I love that this show is so happy, because in so much lgbtqia+ media, and for decades now, it has been mainly about difficulty. Almost all of it encounters a major difficulty in the process, and to have one that's just happiness is being able to have peoples minds be put on screen, that yes, things CAN be that happy. It still is a show too, so they can make it as happy as they want. This show has basically almost stopped my heart because it's just filled with so much happiness. I physically had to get up and take breaks because of how overwhelmingly happy it was. I like shows where i can take a break from reality and just enjoy. This is the happiness for people that, you know, maybe if they did come out, things wouldnt go as perfectly, and this show is their dream for if it were that happy. I've been watching a lot of the Indian lgbtq+ shows on netflix, and if you know india's policies and views, you know how some of those shows/movies can circumvent into. There's plenty of media having hardship in either existing, coming out, living, etc. Same with Korea, uh watched a German one, Spanish, etc. (while writing this i literally had to get up and walk around because i was getting so overwhelmed by the happiness of just thinking about it) Over the last week, I've really wanted to just ingest movies and shows of queer content from other countries 1, because of the different languages, and it exercises another part of your brain 2, there isn't much on netflix to be honest, i mean, there's a lot, but most of it is just to fill in for the writers strike. 3. Get to learn how things work in different countries, and sometimes its better, sometimes its not. At the end of the day, its a show. It doesnt need to be uber realistic to the real world, that's not what these kinds of shows are for. If you want real, watch a documentary.
1:54 You may want to be careful about confirming the idea that everybody has celebrity crushes. Some people don’t, for example, some (but not all) people on the asexual or aromantic spectrum. Assuming that everybody has them plays into amatonormativity and can be uncomfortable or alienating for people who don’t have them, which is exactly why they have shown it in Isaacs story line, I guess.
@@tscimb Yes, but it is possible that he was being sarcastic(saying "yes, because everybody has celebrity crushes" but actually meaning that 'no, not everybody does')-parroting back what they said in the tv series, because that was the silly kid belief the characters in the show have, even though it isn't accurate and just like shaking his head and laughing at it-perhaps he just made the mistake of thinking that it should go almost without saying that this is such a ridiculously inaccurate assertion or claim that anybody should be able to pick up on the fact that it's not actually true even without specifically highlighting it and pointing it out?. (Even pointing out the one character who "even [x-character] does have a celebrity crush" could have been said in the same way, because it's actually a logical fallacy to believe that just because certain people do that means that every other person does too.)
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 possibly, but that's not what I - personally - got out of it. Especially not with the tone and sentence structure used. But, I ofc could be wrong.
@@tscimb Yes, but what you personally suspect or get out of it and what he was or wasn't personally putting into it are not necessarily automatically the same thing, at all. I just feel that we can all often enough stand to exercise a little more cautious or neutral interpretation, weighing both positive and negative possibilities, and not making assumptions about other people's intentions or mindsets any one way or the other without further information either way; that's all I was saying. 🙂 I'm not trying to say you shouldn't still caution against such inaccurate claims as that being potentially reinforced like this though-I'm just saying, unless we can prove that the claims were being reinforced intentionally and knowingly, we should be careful to make those cautions as compassionately and non-inflammatorily as possible. Because making someone feel targeted or attacked is rarely the way to get a genuine or sincerely heartfelt change in behavior or such out of anybody, especially if there is any chance that it was just a simple dumb-human misstep. (If that makes sense?) Like, that might not have been how you intended your comment to come across either, but our comments can still be hurtful to others sometimes even without intention-much like the inaccurate claim in the video that's being called out here in these comments can be too. That's all I meant.😊 I didn't mean it as a criticism of you or your comment directly, per se, more as just my own addition-to and/or expansion upon the broader discussion as a whole. I think we, human-people, should all be careful to try and avoid tearing others down for it even if they did make a legitimate mistake-even when we're calling each other out for possibly having done something harmful[ and perhaps especially even then], at the very least when we don't know for absolutely sure and certain[ beyond even any possible shadow of a doubt] that this harm was actually being done knowingly and intentionally. And I'm not trying to say that you disagree with this yourself, it was just something I felt important enough to be worth adding into the conversation as well. 💜
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 I didn’t think it wasn’t meant to be ironic, but I also don’t think it was meant to be a comment with a lot of weight and I am absolutely sure he didn’t do it on purpose. Unintentional things can still do harm, so I think it is important to make people aware of that so that they can make informed decisions about it in the future. I even think it is more effective to react to unintentional things than to intentional things, since people who do stuff intentionally probably aren’t that receptive to this kind of feedback. I feel like this channel finds it important to be respectful and minimise harm, so I’m sure they will appreciate the feedback. I am aware that harsh comments can be hurtful, but I feel like my comment wasn’t harsh? I intentionally used suggestive language instead of imperative language and I merely gave a factual explanation of the impact the thing said could have. If I came across as rude, my apologies, I explicitly tried not to be. I don’t think what they said is a super big deal, I’m also not mad about it. It was just a small unfortunate thing that sadly happens a lot, which is why they might want to avoid it in the future. It happens.
My mom came out 7 years ago as lesbian when she was 36 and her parents (my granparents) had a hard time accepting it at first, but now they are okay with it. They learned that it doesn’t hurt anyone or makes them love their daughter any less:)
#Jonathandecker - Thanks for your video. I would say if you want to be an ally you cannot stay silent in the face of discrimination. Jono, there have been times when people made transphobic comments on your videos and you thanked them for their comment. (How are they to take that other than support for what they said?) You were quick to correct people about misperceptions around LDS. But you can't build a bridge by throwing some of us under the bus. (See David Archuleta video comments.) It's amazing that you are making videos like this. (I mean that sincerely.) But how you respond to comments online and in person matters also. We are in the midst of hate (racial, antisemetic, xenophobic and homo- and transphobia) like we haven't seen in decades. We are in the midst of a trans genocide (not being hyperbolic). There are entire states that are not safe for me to even travel through. The acceptance you espouse in your videos is a great start! But if you want to be an ally you have to stand up to hateful and ignorant rhetoric. Ask yourself if you would feel comfortable attending a rally demanding trans affirming healthcare for youth? (Care that is standard of treatment according to every major medical and psych org in the U.S.). Utah was the first state to ban gender affirming care for trans youth. Did you protest? A person's level of comfort or discomfort is a great place to start to look at their allyship. This isn't just a disagreement about beliefs. Our existence and our humanity are not up for debate. And many of our lives (esp BIPOC trans women) are at stake. Thank you for watching Heartstopper. I'm so glad you love it as much as so many of us do. Thank you for making the effort and being willing to listen and learn, and for asking questions. Heartstopper is a beautiful representation of what being LGBTQIA+ can look like. (And we desperately need positive representation.) Queer folks, especially our youth, need support and safety. Thank you for all you do and for shining YOUR light. Cheers
Also…advice…don’t ask people if they are gay. If you’re not ready or you’re not aware…a question like that can really be upsetting. I still remember a couple of girls from high school who asked me and those interactions made me retreat and isolate myself even more because I was so terrified the truth would come out.
First, ouch opener: many of us who are ace/aro have a hard time understanding what everybody else means by "crushes" and such. Not ever having one (or taking it yo mean something different) isn’t unusual for a lot of us, but EVERYONE assumes everyone must - so it ends up being yet another way we're different and confused. Even when I'm around a new group of us Rainbows, I have to figure out if I'll be seen as "included" or a "poser." (If they're a group of straight folks I'm almost always automatically considered queer, if they know. Very rarely, I'll be asked if I've taken religious vows 🙃.) I LOVE how Heartstopper shows positive behavior and reactions. We want kids to learn how to interact appropriately, then we'd best give them examples of what to do (especially instead of only examples of not to do - particularly since there's usually no serious consequences for the abuser).😅 Allyship is not letting the microaggressions go. Not ignoring it or excusing it away. It's speaking up, not only to stop the comments; but also to explain why they're inappropriate. Also, you showed scenes of allyship, and not so, but missed 3 big ones: - Nick 'confirming' Tara's gayness (I get that it was Nick trying to understand the whole Bi thing, but that's not what she's getting from it) - Nick finally telling Imogen & her reaction (hilarious and truthful) - Isaac finally cracking and telling the group off for the teasing (not technically a traditional coming out - but so close and it is how some of us do) Lastly, coming out is a tiring never-ending lifelong cycle. Hetero- and allo- and cis- normativity is so rampant we end up having some variation of the same discussion with nearly everyone we want to keep interacting with. It is true that, depending on the environment and people, we'll use different terms or behaviors; but it's mostly either for simplicity's sake or for safety. Sometimes, though, i just don't want to have to explain it all to someone who isn't going to care, or who I suspect will react badly, and I just don't tell them. It makes social conversations seem like walking through a field of landmines with my eyes closed, but it gives my sense of self a much needed break and/or safety net. So: be a little more choosy in your jokes, be a little more aware of your interactions and reactions, and ask those around you if there's anything you're missing regardless of it being big or little. Wanting to be an ally is Step One. Thank you!
Not everyone’s experience with coming out is the same. I’ve had so many different experiences even though I’ve only come out a handful of times. Usually it’s kind of “oh cool” but there have been a couple of times where it’s been one extreme or the other, one of the worse times has seriously impacted my mental health and I think everyone should understand that you have to respect people when they feel comfortable enough to share things like this with you, it’s really important. This show has been so healing for me ❤ also thanks for addressing this, we need it 🏳️🌈🍂
My only critique is when you said that sometimes growing up bi people ignore that other half of themselves- I understand the sentiment, but bi is never 50/50. I'm bi, and genderfluid, and even before I accepted my genderfluidity I knew that my bi-ness was not 50/50, but hetero people made me feel broke for not feeling like that was how I was supposed to feel. We exist with all levels of preferences across all spectrums, but most importantly... WE EXIST
I've had a mix of reactions to coming out, most people have been really supportive and ok with it. But I had a best friend, and I came out to her and I thought she'd be all good with it but she blocked me on all social media, avoided me and wouldn't speak to me starting about a week after I came out, only found out about a year later for sure that it was because I'd come out to her. That really hurt and knocked my confidence coming out to people but I've recently moved to uni and am fairly openly out, which has been made easier by a lot of my new friends also being part of the LGBTQ+ community
I’m sorry that happened to you that must’ve really hurt, but in the end she wasn’t a true friend if she couldn’t accept you unfortunately that’s usually something you have to learn the hard way
I think all any of us want is to just be treated equally. If someone doesn't understand something, they should ask questions but not assume they know more about us than we do. Just be kind and respectful to other people.
I'm waiting for the day he watches She-Ra and The Princesses of Power. Oh there is so much material for him to work with. Every character needs therapy!
The thing is coming out is terrifying EVEN IF you’re 100% sure they’ll be accepting. You can’t take it back, you can never go back to the comfort of the closet, and you’re changing their perception of you forever, even if it’s a more accurate perception.
Im AroAce, but I didn't really have to come out to my mom as that. She never pushed any sort of relationship on me or my siblings or had expectations or us like "I cant wait till you're married and I have grandchildren!". So I didn't have to really have to come out to her about that more than "mom, relationships just arnt for me." But I DID have to come out as Trans-NB to her. One day in the car after we got back from the store, I was so scared I thought I was going to cry, and I asked my mom, "What would you think if I changed my name?" (I finally found a name that was mine, but haven't told my family yet), and she took 2 seconds and said "What is the name? You would't have asked if you didn't already have one in mind." I told her that I want my name to be 'Diem' and she thought it was the coolest name ever! She was so exceted for the cool new name (she still pronounces it wrong, her inflection on the syllables are off, but it is like a mom saying "THE pokeMAN", so its really enderaring). 2 years later she drove me to San Francisco to help me though Top-Surgery. She cooked for me, helped give me bed baths the first few days post-op, and fretted over the wound dressing and drains. Even before I came out to her, she fully accepted who I was. I liked to be more masculine. The only time she commented on how I dressed was if what I wore looked run down and dirty. When I asked to cut my hair short before I came out, she was excted because "It'll be like Halle Berry!" (a bit wrong, but she had the right spirit). She was just excited to have a human that was her kid and as long as that kid was safe and healthy, she just wanted me to be ME and she supported me completely. (She's a nurse who now wants to get into the Gender Conformation specilty because she just thinks its so ding-dang cool) I am SO INCREDIBLY LUCKY to have her in my life and I recognize that not everyone has this kind of support and love in theirs. Keep fighting, be who you are, and stay safe. That love WILL find you. A found family is waiting to be made just for you. So keep your heart open, I believe in you.
I never had a celebrity crush either. I could think they looked good, admire their work (even fangirl their work), admire their character, etc, but never have a crush on one. So whoever that was who didn't, I relate xxx
I’m 22, bisexual transgender man. Interestingly the reactions people had to my bisexuality were largely positive (even my strict catholic nan was ok with it) whilst people found it a lot harder to come around to it when coming out as trans. I also feel that it’s worth contextualising nick’s bisexuality in terms of his actor (kit Connor). He didn’t really get to ‘come out’ because of speculation around him and his costar, and a host of accusations of queer-baiting. I definitely feel that in terms of not really getting to ‘come out’ as such, I was outed by a not very nice person to both of my parents, and my mother then to extended family. Nick’s coming out scene really hit close to home, as somebody who never really got that experience.
My experience was my mother telling me to not tell anyone. Even my siblings. I'm not sure she's told my dad. She also said that I just think the same gender is pretty/handsome and not romantic material. I haven't told anyone and it's been months since that conversation. I don't talk to my mom about anything even related to my feelings. There are people saying that Nick's coming out scene isn't real enough but the whole point was to give the audience a little section of a happiness that others and I didn't get to experience. I love that scene and I love how nick handled it and I loved how his mom assured him that she was still there for him even saying that if he's lying about liking girls it's fine that he doesn't have to.
Your mom sucks and I’m sorry she didn’t support you the way she should I’ll never understand parents who treat their kids that way you deserve so much more
please use correct pronouns when being an ally and ask appropriate questions! I often get really personal questions, it is ok to ask the question in a respectful way and we will either answer or say I'm not answering that and if we do drop it. please don't minimize our (my) experiences when we are talking about them regardless if they were painful or positive it's our (my) experience. And if you are part of the community be an ally to the other identities within alphabet-mania (LGBTQIA+) you are not a part of
As a mixed race bi person I’ve always felt like I wasn’t enough one way for either group. Half just wasn’t enough for any of my groups. I’m still struggling to acknowledge and show appreciation to all of myself and not hide some sides of me depending who is around me. Not brown enough for the brown people, too brown for the white people, not gay enough for the gays and too gay for the straights. Simultaneously being too much and not enough. I’m finding more balance now but it took most of my twenties to do it! I found my people.
If you want to be an effective and active ally. Show up. Stand up when you see injustice in your community. Go out and vote if you can. Help us in our fight against these transphobic lawmakers.
I think being a good Ally is about listening, understanding and standing up when you hear homophobia wether or not you know there is someone in the community in the room or not. I think it’s about being supportive and being a defender and obviously educating yourself is great 😊
Part of the community here :) When it comes to allyship, I'm a bit torn because I feel like a lot of heterosexual people use the label "ally" to convey that they accept LGBTQ+ people, HOWEVER I understand allyship as something more than just accepting someone's love towards others. Allyship means that you stand up for the margalized and actively support. So, I'd rather abolish the noun "ally" and turn towards the verb "allying". It's something active you do, and have to do all over again, because we need people who ally for and with us.
Not “everyone” does have a celebrity crush. The importance of Isaac saying he doesn’t have a celebrity crush is that Isaac is slowly coming to realize he might be asexual.
And I came out in the very late 90s, and for the most part I had a good experience except for one thing. Coming out is one of the only things we should have control of. Who we come out to when we come out etc the first person I told quite instantly told everyone else at school. Although the reaction as I said was positive, she did take my choice away.
I’m straight but I read a lot about all different kinds of characters. It’s taught me a lot about lgbtia and all that goes with it. I watch shows like heartstopper, dear Victor and 911. I’ve also got several family members who are part of the rainbow family and I just want to say that it sucks that in this day and age it’s not more widely accepted, that there’s people who still think we should live in a time where everyone was too scared to be open about who they are. I’m sorry that many of you have families and friends who don’t accept you or don’t try to understand and while I might not fully understand your experience because i don’t share it. I 1000% accept you and think you are perfect and valid just the way you are and I’m just a stranger on the internet but I hope you don’t ever let anyone dull your shine because you’re amazing. I hope one day you never have to live in fear of discrimination or violence because of who you love or don’t love.
The best line here is "I'm sorry if I ever made you feel like you couldn't tell me." That's just a fantastic line and one that doesn't get talked about enough. No judgement. No "I can't believe you didn't tell me" or "I've always known" or "Are you sure you like boys?" or "It's just a phase." Just "I'm sorry if I ever made you feel like you couldn't tell me." A+ mum right there.
I love the show so much because it gives LGBTQIA people hope. All the gay movies I saw after I came out at 18 were filled with heartbreak, suicide and AIDS. I think my life would have been so transformed when I was a teenager in the 90s if I could have seen Heartstopper…especially at a time when I felt so alone and terrified from 13-18. The show makes me cry in so many places because the acting is so well done but also because so many things are relatable in the sense that Charlie and Nick were the dream I had when I was their age. It’s really beautiful.
14:03 One of the most important things someone has to do to be an Ally is to have 2SLGBTQIA+ people first refer to you as one. Often times people will go "As an Ally....(says something homophobic)" when no 2SLGBTQIA+ person has ever called them an Ally (and thus, they are not). As a queer person, I would agree that you are an Ally, and are allowed to refer yourself as such (though obviously, I don't speak for every 2SLGBTQIA+ person)
My coming out came during college/as I was leaving college as I came from a super religious hispanic home in a tiny conservative town in Texas. (Self ID transgender, genderfluid, panromantic demisexual (asexual) My resources were heavily limited and monitored until my 20s, really. So even figuring myself out, it came at coming out as different things. Figuring out things, for myself at least, has been so fluid. And just because I came out as one thing, doesn't invalidate it when I figure out more of myself. And coming out never really ends. I tried a 'one and done' coming out when I saw a lot of family and it backfired heavily. It took my sister in law pulling me aside and asking 'oh, so what name would you like to be called by the girls?' (my nieces) that reminded me that there is happiness as well. I love Heartstopper so much because it is so easy for me to sink into the hardships of being queer that I've experienced and what little I've seen in media. Its bittersweet in that I wish I had this as a kid, but I love that future generations can see the goodness in it and it is such a palate cleanser. Nick coming out always makes me cry because its something I'll never have from my parents, but it also was so healing to imagine that for my inner child. As for allyship, my sister in law (an ally before eventually coming out as well) and my partner (also an ally before coming out), they were the best allies I could have in the earlier years. They researched without my prompting but would ask me specifics just to make sure things were correct, they would correct people in their lives with my name and pronouns and call out transphobia or homophobia even to their loved ones (which is an incredibly hard thing to do in some of the cases). It was listening and caring and showing in unseen actions.
As a parent of a member of the LGBTQIA+ community....parents NEED good and positive examples out there on media. We've had a TON of dramatic and heart wrenching stories about the suffering of queer people. And I think that was my first thought when my child came out to me. "Oh, no! This means my child will suffer like all those stories you hear about. This means my child will be a statistic that increases their likelihood of abuse, violence, self harm, eating disorders, suicide, depression, anxiety, and discrimination." When what I wish could have been portrayed was the RIGHT way to do it. Most parents are caught off guard...even if they have a feeling about their child...they're still often surprised by the timing of their coming out. So we aren't ready. While the child has likely pondered and planned and weighed pros/cons, planned responses, prepared themselves emotionally and mentally for the results no matter what they are...the parent never gets this preparation time. And so expecting them to respond perfectly is unfair. But it would certainly help to have some narritives that show us how it's done. To get us to know that our kids are ALWAYS better off being themselves. And they shouldn't hide even in the name of public safety. And I hope I got it right. I've come to realize it's the parent's reaction and show of support that can increase or decrease their child's risk of all the terrible things we've heard about that come along with coming out. I want to see the wonderful things. I want to see how much it benefits the child, the parent, and society to have everyone live their truth. And I'm grateful that I'm starting to see that more and more as this young generation grows up. They're our finest generation yet. And I have so much hope for them for the very reason that they won't let archaic convention rule them. We should all be so lucky...and so brave.
another thing that’s important to note is even within the community, allyship is still needed. just because someone falls under the umbrella of LGBTQIA+ does not mean that they will understand the experience of someone else, as it is such a broad range of experiences. there are cis people who may have a queer sexuality who may be transphobic for example, and this is to varying degrees of blatantly hateful to accidentally triggering. some groups within the community feel more marginalized than others and may experience prejudice. we see in the truth or dare clip, isaac is uncomfortable when asked if he has a celebrity crush because he is asexual, but no one pauses to consider that could be his experience. it’s an identity he himself is still coming to terms with and figuring out. it is delicate for him and raw, and one of his own friends casually says (tho jokingly) “oh come on, everyone has a celebrity crush,” and in that moment, without realizing it, she invalidates him. we see it more with him in another scene when his friends think they are being encouraging by rooting for what they perceive as a blossoming relationship between him and another boy, and he gets frustrated with them because they are presuming his sexuality and putting societal expectations on him. it’s a similar sort of frustration a gay person might endure when their friends try to root for them to pursue a relationship with the opposite sex. it’s being unseen and forced into the closet. but what’s additionally upsetting, is this is coming from queer folks and allies. darcy herself is a lesbian, and she thinks her boisterous cheering for isaac to get together with the other boy is a show of support, because that’s how she would like to be shown support as a queer person. unfortunately she does not consider that isaac might not share that experience, so it’s always important not to presume sexuality, and this also extends to not presuming gender. it’s a running gag in the story how everyone presumes nick is either 1) straight, or in this truth or dare scene after he reveals he’s with charlie, 2) gay. repeatedly he has to assert that he is bisexual. bi erasure is a real problem in this sense, and bi people often experience their own issues of prejudice within the community, ranging from only part of their sexuality being acknowledged depending on who their partner is, to being judged for using the identifier “bi” instead of “pan.” there is an ongoing discourse that the term “bi” is actually non-inclusive to non-binary folks, because it seems to say there are only two genders. many bi folks counter that “bilingual” does not mean that you only know two languages, it could mean multiple. some people also use “bi” as a distinction from “pan” in that they may feel more attraction to certain genders than others and that “pan” suggests an equal attraction to all genders. it seems to trend that older generations prefer “bi” as they’ve identified with it already, and younger generations seem to lean toward “pan” out of respect to their nb peers. anyway, many long tangents in there, but my over-arching point is allyship does not end with cis heterosexual folks. everyone needs to be learning and trying to be better for each other.
I LOVE this show! It's so sweet and wholesome, in a good way. I didn't have these types of stories or representation in media during my formative years, because it was typically portrayed as mostly tragic and awful (which I experienced as well, cuz lord knows I was bullied during my teenage years in the 2000s), but i see the portrayal of the story as somewhat hopeful and idealistic in a good way, like it's letting us that nor everything has to be horrible, and while we're not all brought up under the same circumstances, theres still a chance that things can be okay. It covers heavy topics (aside from "coming out" or "being outed," more so in the second season, byt kets nor dorfet Ben in the fiesr season), but i just kove the show and wish I had it 15-20 years ago when i was questioning anf discovering my sexuality. I "semi" came out to my mom as gay when I was 11/12, and she just asked me if i was sure (which i wasn't really at the time, and thats as far as it really went until a couple years later), but when i officially came out around 14/15, she was so incredibly accepting, and essentially mirrored Olivia Coleman's character in Nick's coming out scene. My mom "knew" or at least suspected since I was in elementary school (not trying to promote stereotypes, but that was my experience), and was just so happy that i finally told her my truth for sure, and has been nothing but supportive since. She couldn't care less who i date/love/have a relationship with, as long as they're good to me... I always thought that would be the case, but it was still scary coming out to her and the rest of my family (the majority of whom also didnt care, were just waiting dor me to tell them, or came to accept it really quickly), and i think a big part of that is how tragically "coming out" stories were portrayed 20+ years ago (im 31). Kids need stories like this, whether theyre LGBTQ+ or not. Ive recommended this show to so many people.
I live in Texas, and every day there are reports of the anti-LGBTQ laws being passed by our legislature. There is also a significant rise in hate crimes here as well. What makes an ally" For me the best example is where I work. I am overwhelmed by the co-workers who go out of their way to ask me how my day was, how am I doing, et al - just being normal with me. One co-worker pulled me aside and quietly asked if she could ask a couple of questions. She asked me my pronoun preference and then asked me to go to her if there were any type of problems generated by me being LGBTQ. She wears a pin that says You Are Enough. The other things happened at a Pride Festival in Dallas. I went to the festival and noted a number of church booths among the vendors. I was very leery of them, until one booth - a Southern Baptist one at that, asked my permission to hug me before I went on my way. That made me cry because up until then I felt that the only people in my life were the community. To know that someone was willing to hug me, but first ask if that was ok was very overwhelming. To be an ally is to understand the fear many LGBTQ people have of non-LGBTQ people and also the skepticism of those who falsely call themselves Christian, while verbally or physically attacking LGBTQ people. To be an ally, you must freely give your love without any return expectations.
As a straight grandmother of 5 young people, Nick’s coming out to his mother was a very informative, educational lesson for me of the right way to react to those confessions. If any of my grandkids ever comes out to me I now feel confident that I will say the right things and ask the questions in the right way in the right way.
Listening without judging a person questioning their sexuality is a great place to start. Another way is to step up for that LGBTQ person if necessary. Heartstopper's positivity is a nice change when you look back on how gay people were portrayed in movies in the past. Every LGBTQ persons coming out is different. You do eventually find people who love and accept you just as you are in time.
Kit Connor, who plays Nick, tells of young teens sending him messages (twitter and other means) in which they said they had made a point of sitting with their parents to watch Heartstopper -- especially the scene where Nick comes out to his mom. They did so, in order to begin the conversation of their own coming out to the parents. Connor has said that those stories really make his role in the TV show meaningful; he had never thought that an actor his age (he was 18 at the time of the interviews where he talked about it) could affect someone's life like that. *** *** Joe Locke, who plays Charlie, had a similar experience when he went back to high school after he was done with filming. There were LGBT meetings in the library once a week -- and when he went to one of them, he saw a LOT of kids there, who said that the TV show had been beneficial to them, by giving them confidence to be who they really are.
I don't personally believe that "it's not realistic" is actually a truly valid criticism anyhow. It's okay if some people prefer to consume realistic fiction, that's fine; but it's not fine[ I don't personally think] for anyone to feel that all other consumers and/or creators of fiction must also be so equally obligated to prefer realistic fiction as well. I think it is every bit as okay for people to enjoy and/or create idealized fiction that portrays things as they personally wish things were or personally feel things *should* be as it is to portray things how they actually _are_ even when that's not always so prim or proper or pretty. Both things have, I believe, different yet equal merits and values and worths and importance in this world and in people's hearts/souls/spirits/minds and lives and all. 🙂💖
I think the show actually does a good job at showing the challenges of coming out or exploring your identity, but the difference is that it doesn't center that experience. Charlie's experience of bullying, Ben, Darcy ect. all have their own challenges or not being accepted, but I think what this show does is highlights the importance of a supportive queer friend group. I think so many of us experienced the grief of seeing this beautifully depicted and aching for that lost experience ourselves. This show is incredible for what it has done for the queer community. I hope allies can learn to stay curious and be aware of their own biases, and to keep in mind that not everyone gets this supportive experience, but that you can make a difference through your own allyship.
I think a very helpful thing can be if someone asks if they can do anything to help you. Like when I came out as aromantic I asked my family to stop teasing me about every time I spoke to random men, since there was nothing romantic in that for me and it was them forcing heterosexuality on me and made me uncomfortable. It can also be a great way to allow someone to ask to use different pronouns or help you buy new clothes or find out if they do or don't feel comfortable with over-the-top ally parents or whatever it may be. Any behaviour need correcting or anything new to be done to help the person? It's a great way to easily open up that conversation and let someone know you're willing to adapt to make them comfortable.
I think something I would add (as a bi person) is that coming out is always scary and awkward. It doesn't matter if you *know* your family or friends are going to be okay with it or happy for you, it's still difficult to work up the courage to do that. Telling my sister and my future mother in law was one of the most awkward and difficult things I've done, despite the fact that I knew they would both be so supportive. The more you love someone, the harder it is to tell them I think, maybe because you don't want anything to change between you , and the stakes are so high if you are rejected. But I am also so so glad that I told them, because being able to be who I really am around them, and knowing that they know who I am and still love me just as much is such a freeing experience.
I honestly don't remember coming out to my family. I remember telling my step-mom, and some of my friends, but it was in casual conversation, and everyone who I can remember directly coming out to was queer. Coming out becomes so inflated with being some big grand gesture or some deeply intimate moment, that I don't really consider what I did coming out, it's just me mentioning another fact about myself. For some advice on how allies should react, match their tone. If they are mentioning it casually because maybe it had to do with the conversation, you don't have to act like it's a big deal, you can continue the conversation as before. If it's clearly a big and important moment for them, take it seriously, validate them.
I think the truth or dare scene is one of my favorites, but definitely not always the case. I’m in college and I only feel comfortable in that way around my close friends, not even because they have proved their allyship, but because those “strangers” in the room are people that I don’t know the reaction of. It’s definitely more common with ppl my age to bare-minimum be neutral about it, but it’s another to back a friend up like that and it’s awesome to see when it happens.
I was outed by my sister as asexual to my mom, and was told that I was being demonic. Because I wasn't interested in sex??? She then made all of us listen to a lecture about the greatness of monogamous relationships and how every woman should have a man(not a woman either, but that's a whole other can of worms). I didn't even say I didn't want a relationship, I just wanted the romance part lol.
something that annoys me about when people criticise heartstopper for not being 'realistic' because they showed positive coming out experiences is that they did also have negative experiences. a major part of Charlie's trauma is the fact that when he first came out he was horrifically bullied, and when nick came out to his dad and brother it was really shitty for him. additionally, one of the reasons people love heartstopper is because they DIDN'T have a positive coming out experience, one of my friends watched it and cried when nick came out to his mom because he came out as gay and was immediately shut down and told that it was a phase. queer people want to see positive experiences so the can live vicariously through them.
This show is everything I needed when I was growing up. The closest thing I had to Bi rep was Willow from Buffy and even that was a bit sketch. I wish I grew up in a time where it was this nonchalant coming out.
11:34 yes, it is hard and that part does exist and it isn't always easy. But aren't people tiered of seeing that in movies/TV? I want to see how to do it right! I'm tiered of seeing how to do it wrong or how it can go poorly.
I only realized fully I was bi last year, on the way to maccas with two of my mates, where I just casually went 'oh, I think I'm bi'. No judgements, not really anything was said about it. I told mum later that year and I got a similar response, though this year I started getting some things from her that are 100% supportive (like some cool rainbow sunglasses from a color fun run), so yay to that. Heartstopper is such a cute story for me, and a very healthy one as my first LGBTQ+ novel series to read through, and its in turn inspired a lot of my own writing and acceptance of myself. Mended Light & Cinema Therapy have both also helped me with not just this, but more so life itself, so it's very nice to see you cover this show. Keep being awesome. ❤
I’m 55 years old. Back in the 80’s when I was 19 my mother initiated a conversation while I was talking to her about a friend at the time. I’d been spending a lot of time with him and she’d noticed it. “**** is a very special friend isn’t he” she said. I was horrified and just stared at the road ahead panicking inside but I realised she had me cornered in the car 😂. I just replied “yes he is” and she made it very clear that she was completely supportive, that she thought he was “very good looking and lovely” 😂 and that she’d tell dad when the time was right. She said that she suspected I may have been gay a long time ago after seeing some obvious differences between my younger brother I growing up and how close my friend and I were. Later that night I woke up to hear mum quietly explaining it to dad while they lay in bed. I remember laying there mortified of what his reaction may have been but he was 100% supportive and has always been great about it. My parents and whole family have been wonderful and I’ve never had an issue even from extended family over the years. I know not everyone has it as easy as I did especially considering it was nearly 40 years ago. There is a scene in series 1 episode 7 of “Heartstopper” after the fight scene at the cinema when Nick is with his mum in the car when she says “Charlie’s a very special friend isn’t he” and each time I see that said in a car (exactly what happened to me back in 1988) I still twitch and squirm a bit 😂🤣I really appreciate and applaud your analysis of this wonderful show. I know it was made for teens predominantly and it does kind of romanticise things a bit at times but I am obsessed with “Heartstopper” and I’m so happy it exists for younger people today. Having a show like this when I was a teen would have been amazing as even through I had 100% support from my family I’ve still had issues like being bullied at work etc back in the 90’s. Things are much better now than the but there is still homophobia and even though it’s 2023 not all parents are supportive like mine were nearly 40 years ago. Craig - Australia
This is so beautiful. I'm a huge heartstopper fan! I am straight Christian Ally, that moment with his mum is so lovely (am more her generation). My daughters age group (recently left high school) much more accepting and talk more openly in friend groups but many lgbt+ teens still don't come out til after h/s for fear of judgement by peers (not close) and staff/parents of peers
Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate religious allies. I'm gay and also religious myself, and so I just wanted to say that I recognize the many religious allies that are out there.
I wish I could watch this show, but I don't live in an accepting home at all. Coming out as trans was better in the community than it was my family. They are uber-conservative Christian Nationalists, and even though I've fully transitioned over the past 5 years, I still get publicly deadnamed and misgendered on a daily basis. I hate having to live here with them! HOWEVER, I have a very amazing and accepting community outside of my house that has been phenomenal over the past 5 years. I love them so much. They've made the journey so much easier for me in a VERY hostile state! I haven't even told my family I'm also bi, but they won't let me have ANYONE visit me in the house, so I just keep my life outside of their view and do my thing. It's their loss if they don't want to be part of my journey.
A few years ago I was asking the LDS church for help with my rent and the bishop there was so cool. First of all he had sleeve tattoos, he was a convert, I guess converted like in his twenties, and had an openly gay couple in his congregation
I worked with a woman who lied to her church about disowning her son for his sexuality. Made up fake legal documents and everything. She was a good mom.
First of all, this movie looks SO cute, and I need to watch it! Lol 😊 Second, in terms of allyship, I believe true allies will take the time to properly educate themselves about the LGBTQIA+ community. This is especially important with all of the misinformation, misconception, and rumours being spread about our community, especially the trans community, these days. It’s really painful when people you thought supported you actually believe the misinformation instead of you. Sadly, I’m speaking from experience here 😞
The criticisms about the show being too perfect and not showing the bad sides ring hollow in season 2 when we see Nick's relationship with his dad and brother and how hard it is for him to come out and be out to them respectively.
YES I remember someone posting a comment full of disdain for the lack of anything "real" in the show -- saying that it was all fluff. So I sat down and listed how much fluff there wasn't: *** *** The first season begins by showing a toxic subterranean "relationship", between 2 boys -- one a gaslighting 16-year-old and a 14-year-old boy, who had been recently outed and bullied so much that he had to hide at lunch time in the art classroom. The same older boy sexually assaulted the younger boy, when the younger had just asserted that he no longer wanted them to 'meet up' because the older boy did not care about his feelings. Let's see...what else does the show touch on? Stereotyping based on looks ... General bullying Homophobic comments told as "jokes" Peer pressure by bullies Homophobic responses (on Instagram) to a lesbian's coming out Bullying of Charlie (at the cinema) culminating in a the F-word slur and a fistfight between Harry and Nick. Eating disorder Charlie's depressive response to the bullying, including suggesting it would be better if Charlie "did not exist." Nick's brother bullying Nick, including bi-erasure (and queer-phobia in general) Nick's stress/anxiety/panic attacks as he tried to come out. Nick's uncaring/absentee father Charlie's authoritarian mother Charlie passing out from not eating all day Darcy's homophobic mother who kicked her out of the house for wearing clothes her mom did not approve of. Darcy believing she was unloveable. Isaac's emotional distress (due to his being asexual) Charlie's not wanting discuss his early bullying with his boyfriend NIck, because he didn't want to "burden" Nick. Charlie's story of being outed and bullied to the point of hating himself. Charlie confessing to self-harm on top of the eating disorder. *** *** Most TV show Reactors have commented that those events touch on things that are 'very real'. What mitigates them is the fact that the characters have supportive friends/friend groups and some supportive family members. What might seem 'fluffy' to people who overlook all those issues is the fact that it is love and acceptance that make the characters' lives bearable.
It’s sad to see how hated the community still is even in 2023! And the gen Z (especially post 2000 births) seem to be the most hateful of them all lately.
Being ace I'm afraid to tell people about it because its hard for me to explain without people thinking they way I feel is normal. Right now I think I'm Demisexual but when I try to explain it to people it just sounds like its how everyone feels so I get scared that I'm not actually ace so I don't tell people. Its also hard to explain why I don't have sexual feelings for someone when the social norm is that most people have all these feelings.
I'm Ace too! The way I explain it is "You know how you look at a table and don't think about how sexy the table is? Or how you don't want to be in a realtionship with that table? Thats how I feel about EVERYONE. That really hot celebrety? They are as attractive to me as that table." Not to say people are inanimate objects, but I try to get people to understand that people can look pretty and interesting, like a really well hand crafted table, but their beauty is akin to art rather than the basis of attraction. Others might not be attracted to EVERYONE but I'm attracted to NOONE, which is the big difference. People confuse the idea of "I don't actively want to persue sleeping with someone dispite being attracted to them" with "I don't think anyone is attracive so there is no persute in the name of attraction" (The end result is the same, but the MOTIVE is what makes you ace). At least this is my understanding of MY ace-ness and I hope it helps with possible future explinations for you. Trying to explain Ace-ness is hard, but I believe in you to find the words that make sence of it!
@diem1095 Thank you so much this does actually help! I just also do like having sex and can find people attractive after knowing them for awhile that's just the bit I find hard to explain 😊
I am straight and reading Radio silence has helped me understand what asexual and demisexual is. It's a YA fiction by Alice Oseman, the writer of Heartstopper. The main character Aled is demisexual and has a hard time figuring it out, but then he explains it quite simply / well to his BF and it ends well. Alice Oseman is ace so it has to be accurate. Aled is in the Heartstopper comics, but in the series adaptation he's replaced by Isaac, the ace guy who doesn't have a celebrity crash in the Truth or dare game. Sending some moral support!💕
I love that you used the term "queer community" in this video, even if just the one time. I kinda hate the whole LGBTQIA...... label. I don't like trying to say it, it's not easy to get right, which makes it harder for straight people to get used to (and easier to mock). I'm gay, not LGBTQIA... I'm not ALL of those labels... yeah, the queer community is diverse, but so are many others, and they don't need to give everyone their own letter. Lol. I would love to see the queer community take back this label as the norm. It also just sounds way better, and sounds more inclusive. My two cents. And I grew up in a time when "queer" was still really offensive and almost just as bad to say as the f*g word, but not as bad as homo. Lol. That's what I love about this show. I'm tired of all queer content being sad and depressing and just about misery and suicide and drugs, like, we can be happy, but it always ends with someone getting, aids, beaten or dying. Lol. Or all three. This show is so refreshing. Love it. What a world we are in now.
The only people who never had any expectations of me were my grandparents. I told them I was ace and expected the usual 'what is that?' 'it's just a phase' 'you're too young' 'you just haven't met the right person' 'that doesn't exist' 'you're just shy' etc. That I would get from almost everybody else. But no. They were so supportive. My nan just hugged me and said she loved me no matter what. I miss them so much.
In the game of Truth or Dare, after Nick comes out -- saying that he and Charlie are dating and that he himself is bisexual -- James asks if they want the information to be kept secret. Unfortunately, the video clip was cut off before we could hear the answer. Nick looks over to Charlie, who signals through facial expressions, what would be ok --- Nick says "We're okay with people knowing." That was a big deal for each of the guys.
It is possible to not have celebrity crushes, at least in a sense everyone usually understands them. I'm aroace and I have celebrity crushes but they are different for me. I don't want to be in any intimate relationship with them. I may find them aesthetically pleasing and set them as my wallpaper or I like their persona and want to be friends with them. But that's not how most people would describe celebrity crush.
A lot of people say that this is not representative because it looks too cute and happy but hey WE KNOW IT'S NOT THAT CUTE we literally live being rejected our hole lifes, we don't need to also see that in a show for entertainment. And above all, little queer people need to see that there is nothing wrong with them and they deserve a healthy love story. It's such a beautiful show, it changed my life ❤❤❤
Beautifully put xx
And also; this was my experience. I grew up in the Netherlands and I did have such a positive experience so for some people it is this way, and I think it is a good example to support
This is so true! The queers want some fluff too!!! 😊
Spot on ❤
Not all teens feel ready for sex so are not going at it like rabbits
Until recently I almost only knew 3 types of lesbian representing movies: a) at least one of them dies b) at least one of them decides to take the guy instead c) the stereotypical lesbian character is a flat written sidekick so the creators can wave a rainbow flag. Heartstopper and many other rather new shows and movies FINALLY have realistic, modern wlw relationships. I FINALLY feel represented. I don't need to see every lesbian die, thank you. And bonus points for the beautiful and wholesome representation of trans and ace in Heartstopper ❤
I always hated how so many horrible horror movies always relied on that horrible lesbian sex scene. Almost guarantee if it was a b-rate horror movie there was going to be at least one ridiculous scene with two women
Yes!
I'm 33 now. But when I was 15 I told my mom I was Bi, sat her down to talk. And she looked me in the eye and said: it's a phase, you'll grow out of it. Got up and walked away. We never spoke about it again. I'm still Bi. And I don't speak to my mother anymore. She doesn't seem eher grandchildren either.
I know it's not much but I send you love and empathy.❤
If you felt your mother would not be able to be more open-minded and accept you for who you are, it's probably better that you and your children are not around her anymore.
I am in a quite similar situation.
Acceptance is respect of humanity. Not having it from our own mother is tough.
We have to be who we are and love ourself for that, even if our mother doesn't.
I hope you are surrounded by accepting and loving people.❤
My mother; in public when I was a teen, told me to my face that if I ever came out as anything other than straight I wouldn’t have a home or a family anymore. I’m a lesbian. Haven’t spoken to any of my family (they’re all Jehovah’s Witnesses) in years. To be an ally; understand that some of us have no one except our friends. Be kind, be loyal, understand that yes- it’s not the only thing we are but it is a huge deal. Please don’t get upset when it is a big deal. Sexuality is a big deal because of what we have to deal with to be ourselves. That’s what I wish I saw more of
I’m so sorry that happened to you and I hope you have a good support system now 😊 x I’m bi and basically waited for most of my family to pass away before I said anything. I think my Gran knew in my twenties, she had dementia and was just the sweetest person. She used to say I should be out dancing, no matter who it was with and then gave me the sweetest knowing smile. She was funny like that, just picked up on things super easily. It was like her super power.
I'm so sorry I understand me and my family are christians aswell but I'm bisexual I had a hard time coming out to my mom I told her once I thought she forgot I told her a second time I thought she forgot and this year I told her a third time she said she knew but then something happened cause she broke her ankle and let's just say she said "well then your not really bi-" I cut her off and said "ITS NOT THE SAME ITS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT" well I didn't yell but my voice was raised a bit but yeah we are ok now but still it fucked me up a bit but coming out to my dad was so fucking easy he is like me best friend and is chill ASF I love my father he is the best
a lot of the criticism levied against heartstopper is that it is too wholesome and pg and that it is unrealistic. but what is so important for young queer people including myself is to have representation like this that can show the happy sides of being queer. it shows us that even if we aren’t in a good situation now, queer joy is a possibility and we can have happy healthy relationships like nick and charlie. plus, the show also gets critiqued for not including sex but 1. they are 15/16 years old and 2. LGBTQ+ is NOT inherently sexual. queer relationships can just be lovey dovey romance like heartstopper instead of past representation where it has been depicted with lots of unnecessary sex scenes.
During truth and dare, there was a great opportunity to point out Issac’s asexual identity that, while in its beginning stage, it’s starting to surface. He’s not sure who or even if he’s attracted to anyone. Our default assumption is that he must be attracted to someone. While not part of the community, I think it’s important to recognize that part.
Yes, there are definite hints about Isaac being ace.
Ace and aro ppl are a part of the community? Also Isaac is not only ace, he has also been confirmed (outside of the show, hinted in the show) to aromantic!
Ps: sorry if this felt aggressive or smthing, I'm just tired of seeing ppl (unintentionally) erasing Isaac's aromantic identity and pretending that the A in LGBTQAI+ doesn't stand for ace, aro & agender
As a 68 year old gay man, I have found that we're never really done coming out; it's surprising how often I have to do so even now. I resonate so much with the scene between Nick and his mom, and I tear up every time I watch it. She does all the right things: giving her full attention to her son when she realizes he has something important to say. And again when she says she's sorry if she ever made him feel like he couldn't tell her. Coming out is indeed a major life marker for most in the LGBT community, but I believe even straight people need to "come out," because coming out is about deciding to be authentic and comfortable in your own skin.
For people who want to be allies: call out homophobia, transphobia, biphobia wherever you see it, even if there's not an LGBTQIA person there. ESPECIALLY if there's not. Some people think they can get away with stuff like that when they think they're around other straight cisgender people, but they need to know it's unacceptable at all times.
Louder for the people in back!
Totally agree, it's so important!
I’ve called out coworkers for this behavior before one of which said if someone in his family came out as trans then they’d essentially be kicked out of the family I had some things to say about that and the next time he saw me he asked if I was still mad at him like yes I am and I always will be for your narrow minded views!
This is so important! Cis people need to stand up against transphobia. Straight people need to speak out against homophobia. Whyte people need to call out racism when they see it. Citizens need to take a stand against xenophobia.
To put in a nutshell, all humans should fight intolerance.
We are all in this together.
Hope more and more people realize this. And if they don't, tell them it could be their brother, their mom,, their friend, their kid who could suffer from discrimination. Good shows/ books like Heartstopper help educate people.🍃
I am aroace which I found out when I was 15 or 16 years old. I definitely experienced the younger generations to be more open, more accepting, though I don’t have that many people I felt the need to tell. None of them knew about aromance and asexuality, but the teens in my life simply accepted it. For some, it was obvious that it was a kind of weird concept, to never feel any kind of attraction, but it was also obvious that they only felt like this because it was new for them. My mom needed some time to understand that this is an actual sexuality, but she’s now fine with it. Unfortunately, my dad does not believe this. He only told me, that “he was that too, when he was my age” - I’ve never directly addressed my sexuality to him again. But at least he doesn’t make any comments now, if he ever hears me mentioning my sexuality.
My advice for those who want to be allies is: Believe us. If you don’t understand something, that is totally fine. You can ask questions. But please just believe that what we tell you, what we experience - it is the truth.
Hello fellow ace i came on here to write thesame thing almost exactly From younger generation people accepting it easier but still really not getting what it was at first. To my dad not believing me either and "That it isn't a real thing and just a phase ill grow out of once I meet the right person" comments . That biggest thing is to believe that it is real and that its part of who we are dont dismiss it just cause you may not get "how it works " is the best way to be an ally.
"But please just believe that what we tell you, what we experience - it is the truth." Yes! Thank you! I am aro and am on the ace spectrum. I am also pan. (I sometimes describe myself as a gray pansexual.) I extremely rarely experience sexual attraction and have even less of a desire to act on it, but when I do, gender is not a factor to me. The majority don't understand and I am not surprised by that. I do really dislike it when people decide that people on ace (or aro) spectrum are one or the other, but not both. Especially after it is explained to them.
This is related, but does not just apply to allies. I wish that people realized that there are multiple forms of attraction. Sexual, romantic, physical, emotional, and aesthetic attraction are different things and others can experience none, all, or any combination of them. I literally had to explain this to a queer person a week ago when they decided to proclaim that it is an all or nothing situation for everyone when someone asked for a clarification on a comment they made. I told them they are free to talk about their attractions, but please don't make definitive statements about other people's attractions.
…omg…this. Demiromantic Asexual.
Also…I get far more trouble with either being told that having romance Sometimes means “I actually Just want A Close Friendship” (no, it feels different. and I shouldn’t feel pressured to kiss or have sex to “prove” it)…or…literal hate for…how I “can’t use aroace” when…I am ace…and demiromantic is part of the aromantic spectrum…and besides from Grey and Demi there are…other microlabels…like Angled and Oriented specific to Aroace…and…more.
I am. So weary. Of the blatant Assumption that Anything But 0% Romo AND 0% Sexy Attraction Times… is… “not ace enough.”
…I swear there’s more resources and support for Aces Who Choose To Have Sex or Grey/Demi Asexuals than…there is for Romantic Aces and Grey/Demi Aromantic Asexuals.
I am also Aroace, I realised this after watching a video about someone else never feeling romantic or sexual feelings towards anyone from middle school to university.
After that, I sort of realised that I was Aroace because I never crushed on anyone from primary school onward, outside of close platonic friendships.
Watching that video was probably the moment when it clicked with me that I was Aroace because I could resonate with the youtuber's feelings. I'll drop that video in the comments too🤗
#Aroace🤗💖
I can’t wait to hear how you talk about the asexual representation in the show!
I'm 28, and I didn’t realize I was bi until this year. I was raised über-conservative, so I was completely ignorant of the LGBT existence until I graduated from college. I didn’t even have a concept that I might be bi even though I've clearly had female crushes my whole life.
Turns out it was probably for the best that I didn’t know. My mom's side of the family treats me differently now. If that had happened while I was growing up, it probably would have made my trauma much worse.
Thanks for sharing! I had a similar experience, my mam's side just pretended I'd not said anything. I hope you find acceptance with people you feel comfortable around x
@@JeccaJ Thank you 🥰
I’m much older and realized within the last 4-5 years that I’m bi. I just brushed aside my crushes on girls and women. I focused on the side of me that likes guys. I just never identified the feelings I had for women. Watching Heartstopper and other shows with bi representation helped me acknowledge that side of me.
1:48 Isaac doesn’t have a celebrity crush because he’s asexual and aromantic. As someone who’s on the ace spectrum myself, I’m the same way. I can obviously recognize when a celebrity is attractive or when they seem to be a good person, but I’ve never had that kind of crush on anybody. When I was younger, I’d just pick someone who seemed appropriate if the subject came up.
Friendly reminder/spoiler: Isaac, the “I haven’t had a celebrity crush” identifies as asexual later in the season, so it’s probably true that he never had a celebrity crush
As someone who's bisexual I wanted to kind of throw it out there that we sometimes at least in my experience get just as much judgment from other LGBT people. The first time I ever actually felt judged for being bisexual was from a very very very very very very very very very very very very very very gay man. And it was very surprising to me.
Same, I've had a lesbian family member tell me it was "trendy" now to be bisexual.
It's like some people forget that ALL bigotry is wrong, not just the ones they face.
Same 😢
Oh I feel this. The most biphobic things ever said to me were from a lesbian schoolmate. It felt even more hurtful coming from someone within the community.
Omg right?? When our politicians gere were saying “gays and lesbians” and “gay and lesbian people” constantly in reference to same sex marriage here, when I said how awful it was to be consistently left out of the conversation, a lesbian told me I should be grateful. Just because we might get rights we didn’t have before. Just because I mentioned that the conversation around the issue had consistently ignored all the other groups that needed marriage equality.
I love how Nick’s mom said “you don’t have to say you like girls if you don’t”. A lot of people who come how test the waters and use bisexuality to do that. Nick’s mom gave him agency to let him know if he’s doing that, it’s okay and if he is bi, that’s okay too. It teaches people how they should react when someone comes out to them. It’s both a big deal and a small deal. Altogether, it should be a beautiful moment.
Just curious if you’re planning to talk at all about Charlie’s mental health and how the show deals with it? The emotional intimacy between Charlie and Nick at the end of ep 8 is just gorgeous. I feel like there’s a lot of “meat” there.
Yes, I would also love to watch a video about that! It has become such a big part of the show that it would feel weird to just ignore it entirely.
Yes! Queer relationships and queer lives don't HAVE to be tragic ALL THE TIME. We deserve to have sweet teenage romances too. Fiction offers a bit of an escape, and honestly, Nick coming out to his mom was healing for me to see. As a bisexual girl, my coming out wasn't awful, but not good either. I was treated as if I was just pretending and it took my mom quite a while to realize and accept that I am, in fact, bisexual. Nick's Coming Out was the one I dreamed of, but never got. That scene makes my heart ache in a good way. And all the sweet, romantic interactions between Nick and Charlie, all that genuine, innocent love is just as real for us. Who's to say only straight people get to have that in books or TV? Heartstopper helped me forget all the horrible homophobia I've experienced, at least for a little while. It felt safe.
*puts on mom glasses * Thank you for telling me, and your trust. *hugs *
I love how this show covers all types of sexualities, especially Allyship. Even supporting the LGBTQA Plus Community can be insanely rewarding. I'm a proud ally, and so are many of my friends! ❤️🥰🏳️🌈
Just FYI, being an ally isn't really considered a sexuality/lgbtqia+ identity. Some people might take offense to that.
But thanks for learning and being an ally!
Yep no, allyship is not a sexuality.
On another note, I've been an ally for à long time without being fully aware of it. I just felt I was tolerant and it was normal. And one of my best friends came out to me. I was the second person he told. I was so moved and honored and happy for him I almost cried.
I realize even more than before how important allyship is. I still think it's just open-mind and should be normal for everyone, but it isn't.
While it is true that allyship isn't itself a sexuality or sexual orientation or gender identity or such in the way that actually being lgbtqia+ is-I think it's a little silly to feel the need to argue about the semantics of this and/or to be offended by acknowledging allies as a unique class of their own. It's not as if everyone actually is an ally, and it's not as if people never get bullied or attacked or discriminated against and such even just for being allies very similarly to how they could be for actually being lgbtqia+ themselves as well.
I personally believe that the whole entire point of having an lgbtqia+ community shouldn't be just setting apart how different or unique everyone's identities and/or experiences can be but should instead be about bringing EVERYONE _together_ as one whole singular *united* community[ and/or acknowledging everyone as all being equal parts of *_humanity_* as a whole with equal value and worth in general] even in spite of all their differences and/or unique individualities &/or experiences or identities and all. And even though I respect the perspectives of those who might be offended or concerned and I fully acknowledge and understand why it can sometimes be harmful to conflate being an ally too closely together with actually being non-cis/non-het/non-allo[/etc.] oneself, I don't personally believe that merely including allies as a part of the greater lgbtqia+ community as a whole necessarily always does have to be doing that any more than saying that all the other sexualities/orientations/identities[ or etc.] are all part of one same greater lgbtqia+ community actually is or has to be the same thing as claiming that being any of those letters in the lgbtqia+ alphabet is zero different from and/or the literal exact same thing as being any other letter in that alphabet is either.
But I'm sure that it is actually possible for some individuals' whole entire identities to be centered entirely around being an ally(or for being an ally to not really be so much a conscious choice as it was literally just a natural part of who they are as a person to simply not disinclude or discriminate against others). Much like there are plenty of other lgbtqia+ people who don't actually feel like their sexualities or genders and such are actually their whole entire identities either(or who do actually feel like their sexuality or gender and such was actually much more of a choice for them personally than it is or was for many other persons), who actually could find the implication that being lgbtqia+ is their whole identity to be offensive as well.
I don't think it should really matter whether people's whole entire identities are being lgbtqia+ or being an ally or not(Nor should it[ in my opinion] really matter all that terribly much nor make any real difference to anything at all, whether any of it actually is a choice, or is simply some innate part of them which is just naturally ingrained into them since birth, or not , either); not to mention it is possible that the original commenter might not have been even trying to imply that allyship was the literal same kind of identity as being lgbtqia+ in the first place, it could be possible they just don't have perfect eloquence or perfect grammar(and English may or may not even be their first language) and it may have just come across that way entirely by accident.
But maybe that's just me and my own personal way of looking at things. 🤷♀️🤷 🙂
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341
The issue is that the A is for asexuals, aromantics, and agender. Making it “A for Ally” is a very real issue used to bar these orientations away from LGBTQIA+ spaces. Also no one here was disrespectful, they gently corrected
Sincerely, a demiromantic asexual (ie, a AA Battery.)
@@spacecat8511 I never accused anyone here of being disrespectful, though. And I also acknowledged that there are valid issues, too. I never said that the A in lgbtqia+ should stand for Ally, just that I think it's fine to consider Allies as a part of the extended community(because a community can be built out of more than just the individuals of very specific peoples groups only - communities can also be formed by individuals from different peoples groups coming and unifying together) even if not necessarily specifically a part of the LGBTQIA+ alphabet; and even though allyship is certainly not a sexuality, and/or/ even if you don't personally consider it a queer(or non-cis/non-het/non-allo/etc.) identity specifically, that doesn't necessarily mean it can't actually be either some persons' whole identity or something that they someone was innately born with as a core part of who they are as a person rather than something they learned or consciously chose-because there is a difference between a sexuality and an identity, a person's sexuality is not always their whole entire identity, and a person's identity is not always just their sexuality.
But including an A for Allies in the LGBTQIA+ alphabet actually wouldn't have to mean excluding one for Asexuals or Aromantics, despite the fact that some people do unfortunately try and use it that way, but what terrible people do with it does not necessarily always have to define or control what other people do with it-this would not be all that different from using 'nerd' or 'queer' or 'gay' in neutral or positive or reclaimed senses rather than as negative or derogatory slurs. I also pointed out the fact that it is not completely impossible that it may have been a mere miscommunication and not an actual misinformed belief that needed correction-and if what was being corrected isn't actually what the original commenter was even trying to say at all, correcting them about isn't going to correct anything, it's just going to make them feel attacked for accidentally phrasing what they were trying to say in a way that ended up coming across differently than they had meant it to. Even if you are being gentle and 100% respectful, it's still not impossible that you can sometimes still have negative impacts on others.
Sincerely,
a bi graysexual.
I'm a queer person, and I for one love that this tends to focus on the good parts of being queer. When I came out to my mom, I had the expectation that it wouldn't be at all good, largely because I grew up just before queer characters were portrayed at all well, so I prepared myself for the worst, which is funny, in retrospect, because I told her and she reacts wonderfully supportive and calmly. If I grew up with this, I know that my expectations would be entirely different and they'd have been positive, if slightly nervous. Besides, it's nice for the queer community to not be bludgeoned by the truth that there are people out there who want us to be harmed, simply for loving differently than they would for once, It's awesome.
*My good sir, you are a fantastic ally. You speak about queerness in respectful ways. You invite input/correction from those of us in the community. And I think these two scenes demonstrate allyship beautifully.
*Disclaimer: I'm no angel, I was kinda homophobic in my younger days. Glad I expanded my mindset before having kids!
*I've had the opportunity to experience allyship from both sides. When my eldest was figuring out their sexuality and gender, I honestly don't remember what I even said, exactly. I remember being really low-key, and just kind of "Okay. I'm glad you let me know." and hugs.
With my youngest, I was literally right there to see the look on her face (we were watching a video of trans/egg memes) when she realized that "not all little boys dream of growing up to be women." Hugs and some tears of relief, because now we knew why she'd been struggling so much.
We were watching another meme video (bisexual ones this time) when I 🤯. I processed for a little while, and then told my daughter that I realized I'm bisexual. Her response: "Yeah, and...?" And we both laughed. Then I called my eldest, and their reaction was EXACTLY THE SAME!
*Just as important as accepting someone, is respecting if they're not ready to be out yet. FOR ANY REASON.* I had to continuously misgender and deadname my daughter, at her insistence, because she just wasn't ready. For 3 years.
I grew up in a Right-Wing American town in the 80s and 90s. If I had come out as gay in high school, I would have faced ridicule, violence, and would not have the support or protection of any authority figure. Living and loving the way I was meant to would have been suicidal. I'm still dealing with fear and self-doubt all these years later from knowing that everyone around me would hate me if they knew me.
Heartstopper might as well be science-fiction to me. These kids might as well be living on floating cities in outer space for how much I can identify with their experiences. When I first watched Heartstopper, I was stunned. I couldn't process the idea of gay children being loved and accepted by their peers and family. I cried a lot watching it. Then I processed it a bit and became incredibly envious of the characters, and of kids that get to live in a world similar to that depicted in the show. I got pretty bitter too, as it brought up how lonely and awful my childhood was. Now, I just love everyone involved.
We've had enough negative, dark, tragic, horrible depictions of queer people in pop culture. So critics of Heartstopper being too light or unrealistically positive, can just go watch the overwhelming majority of queer works that are unrealistically negative and punishing, and ask themselves, why can't there occasionally be an exception? I'm so happy that shows like this can exist now, and that queer kids get to see themselves in a positive light, and having positive experiences in pop-culture. Because queer kids need to know that they deserve to be happy. That's what Heartstopper does. That's it's purpose.
Yes yes yes!!! We have enough painful representation. We deserve to see queer joy! ❤
I know it’s not the point of the scene, but I just have to say that the spin the bottle scene was a great reminder of one of the reasons I love the character of Tao. He is a straight kid with a gay best friend and dating a trans girl. There are all these rumors going around about who gave his gay best friend a hickey but despite that he kisses him during the game, no issue whatsoever. He is completely secure in his sexuality.
1:49 I actually really relate to this line because I, too, do not have a celebrity crush. I have ones I admire and think are cool but none that is it. I identify as demi (on the ace spectrum) so I require a deep personal connection to someone to develop a crush on them, and for me, that condition isn't met through whatever means I "interact" with a celebrity.
I’m 22 now but I realized I was bi when I was 16. I immediately came out to my friends/ school mates because I knew it was just a non factor. People really did not care at all. At home I didn’t come out until 18 because I was afraid of what my parents would say. They also ended up not caring so it turned out as well as it could’ve I think.
I mean...I came out to my friends and they were like "Wait, what do you mean you *Just realized* you are asexual and biromantic?! 🤣" When I came out to my Mom, she had questions about what being Ace means and what being Biromantic means. She is 100% supportive, and she always asks questions about how she can support others in the LGBTQIA+ community ❤️
Hi, if you feel comfortable, could you elaborate on your sexual and romantic identity? I think that I might be asexual and biromantic too, but I have no idea how to be sure, especially since I don’t have any comparisons.
How did you know? How do I tell the difference between sexual and romantic attraction? What does it mean if I want to kiss someone, but not have sex with them?
I would be so grateful if you could share some of your experiences. ❤
@@kajsakonigk1982 How did I know I was asexual and biromantic? Honestly, I had no idea those existed. I only knew I had zero desire for a romantic relationship, I cared only about college and my friends. My friends are all members of the LGBTQIA+, so I learned about a lot of them from them coming out to me and helping me understand them. My boyfriend is the one who asked me, "Do you think you might be asexual and biromantic?" and together we looked into it and I agreed that fit me ❤️
How to tell the difference between romantic and sexual attraction? So I can only speak for myself. I always phrase it like "I find men and women very beautiful and I want to give them hugs and spoil them with compliments. I will feel my heart skip beats and I get butterflies in my belly--even after 13 years now with my boyfriend ❤️ However, I have no desire to act on these feelings, no "tug" that makes me want to do things."
What does it mean if I want to kiss someone, but not have sex with them? This is honestly only a question you can answer. I can tell you that these feelings are perfectly valid and that you are not the only one who feels these things.
Hope this helped ❤️ I encourage you to do your own research and whatever you decide, know that you are loved and I'm so proud of you 💖
@@ravenclawfairy3648
Thank you so much for your thorough answers and kind words! It means the world to me that you took the time for all of that. 🥹
I can relate a lot to the feeling of finding both men and women beautiful. I would say that I find them “aesthetically pleasing” but I don’t really know what to make out of that feeling - like you described, I have no desire to act upon it.
However, I could imagine hugging/kissing both genders (but unrelated to their appearance, I think?), so I still struggle to understand what that means in terms of sexuality.
Do you think that kissing falls under sexual acts? Or can it simply be a display of romantic feelings? Or does everyone have to decide that individually?
I’m so happy to hear that you seem to have such a great and supportive friend group! That seems like such a wholesome, safe space to get to know yourself☺️.
I honestly think that I will never come out (even once I’ve figured myself out) since my parents aren’t that supportive when it comes to this topic. So maybe it would be better to just ignore all of this, since I can’t do anything about it anyway. But on the other hand, I really want to understand myself.
I guess that I just feel really lost.
Thank you again for your reply! I hope you’re doing well. 🥰
My full identity is aesthetically attracted biromantic asexual. I find men and women pleasing to look at based on their personal aesthetic types; their personalities/souls and their hearts. So since you mentioned "aesthetically pleasing" that is an example of aesthetic attraction.
So, for me and my partner, kissing is not a sexual act. It's simply one method to express our love. A method that my boyfriend enjoys more than me. I prefer hugs and cuddles. Yes, what counts as "sexual acts" is based on what each individual couple decides it means. Sure, the media and books, etc. have the popular examples of those things, however it's is up to each couple to decide what is and isn't allowed.
That is perfectly okay if you never wish to come out. Especially if your environment is not going to be supportive/it is dangerous for you to come out. Only you can decide if you ever will, and that is perfectly fine. I would encourage you to do research, to help you understand yourself like you mentioned you want to. Whatever you decide, know that you are appreciated and supported ❤️
@@ravenclawfairy3648
Thank you for explaining all of that to me!
I think that I also feel that kissing isn’t a sexual act - I just used to think that it was “decided” that kissing was sexual, so it really confused me why I want kisses but also feel asexual. 😅 Your explanation of it was really great and helped a lot!
And thank you so much for the support and understanding. 🥺💚 It truly means so much to me.
1:50 I don't watch the show, but have heard A LOT of talk about Isaac being asexual representation. This little bit of "oh...I don't have one" certainly hits that note because he definitely knows his feels of a crush and the groups are very different. It might be easier to say he doesn't have one or he really doesn't have one. As a fellow ace, this little bit is so needed of a kid wanting to be a part but feeling that disconnect when talking about certain topics.
While the gang is generally accepting of Nick, it should be noted that he was actually forced out by the persistent nagging of that random girl who serves to play the bad guy. Even though it's Tara's party, no one tells that girl to stop it. It's only there to show Ben's reaction. Random girl pushes and pushes and pushes, but it never seems to get a comment.
Ppl tell her to stop it. Tao and Elle and Darcy and Tara(and maybe James and a few ppl i think...) but she keeps nagging. In the end he said it, i mean he could've told her to shut it but that woul've probably been an admission for that girl. Not that there's anything wrong with being Bi or excusing her, she defnitly should've just shut up
What? So many people tell her to stop and to leave it alone...
@@Newest_editsjustbecause But not Darcy nor Tara. They could have said "Hey, these are my friends and this is Tara's party, so don't ruin it. I want you to leave right now. Follow Ben right out."
I feel like allyship, along with what you’ve said about love and acceptance, is really about being clear that you are a safe person to be who you are around and express your feelings on your identity and place in society… like the norms are so hetero coded that we really have to actively work against them by consistently reassuring everyone (not just lgbt) that you are open to listening and understanding and and talking and it’s not uncomfortable or weird.
My impression was Charlie was the first boy he was attracted to and he just didn't know he was bi before. Teens are a pretty 'normal' age for figuring out your sexuality. He may not have been repressing anything, he may just not have felt it or realised before so then it took him a bit of time to figure out and process what it means for him (from first feeling attraction) although orientation is inate people are not always aware of it their whole lives or from very young, it takes longer for some people and its not always coz of repression although obviously that can often be the case. There are chrisitians and churches and Christian denominations that are fully inclusive to the lgbt community, queer christians also exist and I think it does matter whether you 'agree with' them. Not 'agreeing with' queerness is inherently dehumanising (from a bisexual christian) you said it doesn't matter whether you agree with people you can still treat them well, it does matter, because not agreeing with who people are is inherently dehumanising, and its never ok for people's humanity to be up for debate
yeah, I think what he said here about Nick "putting down" or "suppressing" his attraction to men is an example of how straight people can never really know what it's like to be queer (or in this case, bi), but it could also be him trying to simplify something that would usually take a lot longer to explain since it's quite a complicated subject. but on the other hand, he isn't entirely wrong either - at least in my opinion (both as a viewer of the show, and as a bisexual person myself). the thing is, that could have been what Nick was doing on some level, but the key thing is whether he was doing it consciously or not, and given how the series showed Nick's journey to realising he was bi, I'd say he did it subconsciously (if he even did it at all). Nick mentioned in 2x08 how he used to have a crush on his rugby instructor, and even acted on it since he tried to impress him and stuff, but also how he only realised it was a crush as he was talking about him in that moment. so he's clearly been attracted to guys before meeting Charlie, he just either truly wasn't aware that those feelings were romantic attraction, didn't think twice about them (hello heteronormativity), ooor he /did/ realise those feelings for what they were subconsciously and suppressed them, because "whoa this isn't what 'normal' people feel, abort, abort, think about something else, focus on a pretty girl instead!" and then bam, that thought/feeling has been suppressed without you even actively thinking about it or maybe even remembering doing it (or at least that's how it was for me, but I only remembered moments of me doing it and realising that that's what I was doing after actually coing to terms with my sexuality). but then with Charlie, those thoughts/feelings happened repeatedly and became harder to ignore, so it was only then Nick decided to actually listen to them and be like "okay, something might not be right here... am I gay?" and then the whooole journey starts lmao
@@tova1412 Once I finally moved from "functionally straight" (I'm in a long-term het relationship) to "ok fine I'm bi," I thought I was one of those people that had a strong gender preference with only occasional variation. Once I accepted my sexuality and effectively gave myself permission to experience same-sex attraction, I realize it happened to me a lot more than I thought. Add the bi-cycle to the mix, and I honestly couldn't tell you what my "percentages" are. The unconscious suppression of feelings is a very real struggle, and with all of the lies and misconceptions floating around about bisexuality, it's no wonder so many bis don't come to terms with themselves until well into adulthood. In my case, as a woman, I had to deal with the simultaneous "Well, all women are a little bi...women are just so beautiful, even other women can't help but love them!" and "Well, girls just do that sometimes to be edgy or to make themselves look hot." It was really hard to sort out my feelings when I was younger, and I always just assumed I was feeling something other than what I was actually feeling, like admiration. No, staring at another girl in class when you think no one's looking is not simply "admiration."
Nick does refer to having had a crush on a (male) rugby coach when he was 12, but only realizing it in retrospect.
@@danieloneal7137
YES.
The author herself, as well as the actor, said that Nick had believed all his life (until he met Charlie) that he was straight. It never was a question in his mind. His friends and family also assumed him to be straight.
He had had a crush on Tara when he was about 13 and he says in one episode that he had liked girls before.
If he had always believed he was straight, then having crushes on girls would have been what he expected (given the heteronormativity of the general society). So any attractions to boys probably could have flown past his radar.
It was his friendship with Charlie, with whom he could really be comfortable and (as his mom said) be more himself --- that he started to have WTF moments that caused him to consider that he might be other than straight.
At first, he wondered if he was gay, but that did not fit his experience.
He did some research and found out what bisexuality was and eventually claimed that as his sexual identity.
(But even that took a while for him to be clear on.)
And yes, at the end of the second season, he tells Charlie the story of going to Rugby Summer Camp. And yes he says that he had a crush on the teacher/coach.
He says that he did not realize it at the time, but that now (after learning more about himself) , by looking back, he could see it.
*** *** ***
I can say that I and another family member have had similar experiences.
Speaking for myself, I was not a person to repress feeling occasional same sex attractions as an adult. My reaction to the thoughts were along the lines of "Well, that happened" -- meaning that I had had thoughts and feelings that I had not expected, but I just accepted that they were there.
Unfortunately, being a young adult in the 1970s, I had trouble figuring out what to label myself. The ignorance and prejudices of the time about the label bisexual confused the issue. People said that bisexuality did not exist, or that it was a way to escape admitting you were gay, or that it was 'trendy' or that you just wanted to be promiscuous.
Well, none of that fit my thoughts and experiences.
And the natural linguistic thing to do is if you can't find the right word for an experience, you can make up your own. So for quite a while, I called myself "Straight AND Gay" (Please don't laugh)
But as a means to communicate easily, well, that did not work -- I was still stuck going into longer explanations to whomever I felt like telling.
But using my own 'word' for it, I began thinking back throughout my life and seeing the times I had crushes on girls (celebrities and people I'd met) -- but I could only see them in retrospect.
I'm 72 now, and after watching Heartstopper, I have felt encouraged to take my time and work out for myself what kind of label to use, if any. And because of how bisexuality is discussed and represented in that show, I've decided that like Nick, I too am bi, actually.😊
*** *** ***
And now, I'm seeing more clearly just how much bi-erasure there is.
But that's a topic for another post...
I love that this show is so happy, because in so much lgbtqia+ media, and for decades now, it has been mainly about difficulty. Almost all of it encounters a major difficulty in the process, and to have one that's just happiness is being able to have peoples minds be put on screen, that yes, things CAN be that happy. It still is a show too, so they can make it as happy as they want.
This show has basically almost stopped my heart because it's just filled with so much happiness. I physically had to get up and take breaks because of how overwhelmingly happy it was. I like shows where i can take a break from reality and just enjoy. This is the happiness for people that, you know, maybe if they did come out, things wouldnt go as perfectly, and this show is their dream for if it were that happy.
I've been watching a lot of the Indian lgbtq+ shows on netflix, and if you know india's policies and views, you know how some of those shows/movies can circumvent into. There's plenty of media having hardship in either existing, coming out, living, etc. Same with Korea, uh watched a German one, Spanish, etc.
(while writing this i literally had to get up and walk around because i was getting so overwhelmed by the happiness of just thinking about it)
Over the last week, I've really wanted to just ingest movies and shows of queer content from other countries
1, because of the different languages, and it exercises another part of your brain
2, there isn't much on netflix to be honest, i mean, there's a lot, but most of it is just to fill in for the writers strike.
3. Get to learn how things work in different countries, and sometimes its better, sometimes its not.
At the end of the day, its a show. It doesnt need to be uber realistic to the real world, that's not what these kinds of shows are for. If you want real, watch a documentary.
I hope you cover Heartstopper’s asexuality subplot! Would be lovely to hear your take on that
1:54 You may want to be careful about confirming the idea that everybody has celebrity crushes. Some people don’t, for example, some (but not all) people on the asexual or aromantic spectrum. Assuming that everybody has them plays into amatonormativity and can be uncomfortable or alienating for people who don’t have them, which is exactly why they have shown it in Isaacs story line, I guess.
I came to say this!
It was such an unfortunate opener to an "ally" discussion.
@@tscimb Yes, but it is possible that he was being sarcastic(saying "yes, because everybody has celebrity crushes" but actually meaning that 'no, not everybody does')-parroting back what they said in the tv series, because that was the silly kid belief the characters in the show have, even though it isn't accurate and just like shaking his head and laughing at it-perhaps he just made the mistake of thinking that it should go almost without saying that this is such a ridiculously inaccurate assertion or claim that anybody should be able to pick up on the fact that it's not actually true even without specifically highlighting it and pointing it out?. (Even pointing out the one character who "even [x-character] does have a celebrity crush" could have been said in the same way, because it's actually a logical fallacy to believe that just because certain people do that means that every other person does too.)
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 possibly, but that's not what I - personally - got out of it. Especially not with the tone and sentence structure used.
But, I ofc could be wrong.
@@tscimb Yes, but what you personally suspect or get out of it and what he was or wasn't personally putting into it are not necessarily automatically the same thing, at all. I just feel that we can all often enough stand to exercise a little more cautious or neutral interpretation, weighing both positive and negative possibilities, and not making assumptions about other people's intentions or mindsets any one way or the other without further information either way; that's all I was saying. 🙂
I'm not trying to say you shouldn't still caution against such inaccurate claims as that being potentially reinforced like this though-I'm just saying, unless we can prove that the claims were being reinforced intentionally and knowingly, we should be careful to make those cautions as compassionately and non-inflammatorily as possible. Because making someone feel targeted or attacked is rarely the way to get a genuine or sincerely heartfelt change in behavior or such out of anybody, especially if there is any chance that it was just a simple dumb-human misstep. (If that makes sense?) Like, that might not have been how you intended your comment to come across either, but our comments can still be hurtful to others sometimes even without intention-much like the inaccurate claim in the video that's being called out here in these comments can be too. That's all I meant.😊
I didn't mean it as a criticism of you or your comment directly, per se, more as just my own addition-to and/or expansion upon the broader discussion as a whole. I think we, human-people, should all be careful to try and avoid tearing others down for it even if they did make a legitimate mistake-even when we're calling each other out for possibly having done something harmful[ and perhaps especially even then], at the very least when we don't know for absolutely sure and certain[ beyond even any possible shadow of a doubt] that this harm was actually being done knowingly and intentionally. And I'm not trying to say that you disagree with this yourself, it was just something I felt important enough to be worth adding into the conversation as well. 💜
@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 I didn’t think it wasn’t meant to be ironic, but I also don’t think it was meant to be a comment with a lot of weight and I am absolutely sure he didn’t do it on purpose. Unintentional things can still do harm, so I think it is important to make people aware of that so that they can make informed decisions about it in the future. I even think it is more effective to react to unintentional things than to intentional things, since people who do stuff intentionally probably aren’t that receptive to this kind of feedback. I feel like this channel finds it important to be respectful and minimise harm, so I’m sure they will appreciate the feedback.
I am aware that harsh comments can be hurtful, but I feel like my comment wasn’t harsh? I intentionally used suggestive language instead of imperative language and I merely gave a factual explanation of the impact the thing said could have. If I came across as rude, my apologies, I explicitly tried not to be. I don’t think what they said is a super big deal, I’m also not mad about it. It was just a small unfortunate thing that sadly happens a lot, which is why they might want to avoid it in the future. It happens.
My mom came out 7 years ago as lesbian when she was 36 and her parents (my granparents) had a hard time accepting it at first, but now they are okay with it. They learned that it doesn’t hurt anyone or makes them love their daughter any less:)
Much appreciation, not just for the video but also for those in the comments who share advice on how to support you better!
#Jonathandecker - Thanks for your video. I would say if you want to be an ally you cannot stay silent in the face of discrimination. Jono, there have been times when people made transphobic comments on your videos and you thanked them for their comment. (How are they to take that other than support for what they said?) You were quick to correct people about misperceptions around LDS. But you can't build a bridge by throwing some of us under the bus. (See David Archuleta video comments.) It's amazing that you are making videos like this. (I mean that sincerely.) But how you respond to comments online and in person matters also.
We are in the midst of hate (racial, antisemetic, xenophobic and homo- and transphobia) like we haven't seen in decades. We are in the midst of a trans genocide (not being hyperbolic). There are entire states that are not safe for me to even travel through. The acceptance you espouse in your videos is a great start! But if you want to be an ally you have to stand up to hateful and ignorant rhetoric. Ask yourself if you would feel comfortable attending a rally demanding trans affirming healthcare for youth? (Care that is standard of treatment according to every major medical and psych org in the U.S.). Utah was the first state to ban gender affirming care for trans youth. Did you protest? A person's level of comfort or discomfort is a great place to start to look at their allyship.
This isn't just a disagreement about beliefs. Our existence and our humanity are not up for debate. And many of our lives (esp BIPOC trans women) are at stake.
Thank you for watching Heartstopper. I'm so glad you love it as much as so many of us do. Thank you for making the effort and being willing to listen and learn, and for asking questions. Heartstopper is a beautiful representation of what being LGBTQIA+ can look like. (And we desperately need positive representation.) Queer folks, especially our youth, need support and safety. Thank you for all you do and for shining YOUR light. Cheers
Also…advice…don’t ask people if they are gay. If you’re not ready or you’re not aware…a question like that can really be upsetting. I still remember a couple of girls from high school who asked me and those interactions made me retreat and isolate myself even more because I was so terrified the truth would come out.
First, ouch opener: many of us who are ace/aro have a hard time understanding what everybody else means by "crushes" and such. Not ever having one (or taking it yo mean something different) isn’t unusual for a lot of us, but EVERYONE assumes everyone must - so it ends up being yet another way we're different and confused.
Even when I'm around a new group of us Rainbows, I have to figure out if I'll be seen as "included" or a "poser." (If they're a group of straight folks I'm almost always automatically considered queer, if they know. Very rarely, I'll be asked if I've taken religious vows 🙃.)
I LOVE how Heartstopper shows positive behavior and reactions. We want kids to learn how to interact appropriately, then we'd best give them examples of what to do (especially instead of only examples of not to do - particularly since there's usually no serious consequences for the abuser).😅
Allyship is not letting the microaggressions go. Not ignoring it or excusing it away. It's speaking up, not only to stop the comments; but also to explain why they're inappropriate.
Also, you showed scenes of allyship, and not so, but missed 3 big ones:
- Nick 'confirming' Tara's gayness (I get that it was Nick trying to understand the whole Bi thing, but that's not what she's getting from it)
- Nick finally telling Imogen & her reaction (hilarious and truthful)
- Isaac finally cracking and telling the group off for the teasing (not technically a traditional coming out - but so close and it is how some of us do)
Lastly, coming out is a tiring never-ending lifelong cycle. Hetero- and allo- and cis- normativity is so rampant we end up having some variation of the same discussion with nearly everyone we want to keep interacting with.
It is true that, depending on the environment and people, we'll use different terms or behaviors; but it's mostly either for simplicity's sake or for safety.
Sometimes, though, i just don't want to have to explain it all to someone who isn't going to care, or who I suspect will react badly, and I just don't tell them. It makes social conversations seem like walking through a field of landmines with my eyes closed, but it gives my sense of self a much needed break and/or safety net.
So: be a little more choosy in your jokes, be a little more aware of your interactions and reactions, and ask those around you if there's anything you're missing regardless of it being big or little.
Wanting to be an ally is Step One.
Thank you!
Not everyone’s experience with coming out is the same. I’ve had so many different experiences even though I’ve only come out a handful of times. Usually it’s kind of “oh cool” but there have been a couple of times where it’s been one extreme or the other, one of the worse times has seriously impacted my mental health and I think everyone should understand that you have to respect people when they feel comfortable enough to share things like this with you, it’s really important. This show has been so healing for me ❤
also thanks for addressing this, we need it 🏳️🌈🍂
My only critique is when you said that sometimes growing up bi people ignore that other half of themselves- I understand the sentiment, but bi is never 50/50. I'm bi, and genderfluid, and even before I accepted my genderfluidity I knew that my bi-ness was not 50/50, but hetero people made me feel broke for not feeling like that was how I was supposed to feel. We exist with all levels of preferences across all spectrums, but most importantly... WE EXIST
I've had a mix of reactions to coming out, most people have been really supportive and ok with it. But I had a best friend, and I came out to her and I thought she'd be all good with it but she blocked me on all social media, avoided me and wouldn't speak to me starting about a week after I came out, only found out about a year later for sure that it was because I'd come out to her. That really hurt and knocked my confidence coming out to people but I've recently moved to uni and am fairly openly out, which has been made easier by a lot of my new friends also being part of the LGBTQ+ community
I'm sorry your best friend wasn't what she should have been and what you needed her to be. I'm glad you've found your people.
It sucks that you got frozen out, but I'm also glad that she wasn't still there trying to "convince" or "save" you.
I’m sorry that happened to you that must’ve really hurt, but in the end she wasn’t a true friend if she couldn’t accept you unfortunately that’s usually something you have to learn the hard way
I think all any of us want is to just be treated equally. If someone doesn't understand something, they should ask questions but not assume they know more about us than we do. Just be kind and respectful to other people.
I'm waiting for the day he watches She-Ra and The Princesses of Power. Oh there is so much material for him to work with. Every character needs therapy!
The thing is coming out is terrifying EVEN IF you’re 100% sure they’ll be accepting. You can’t take it back, you can never go back to the comfort of the closet, and you’re changing their perception of you forever, even if it’s a more accurate perception.
Im AroAce, but I didn't really have to come out to my mom as that. She never pushed any sort of relationship on me or my siblings or had expectations or us like "I cant wait till you're married and I have grandchildren!". So I didn't have to really have to come out to her about that more than "mom, relationships just arnt for me." But I DID have to come out as Trans-NB to her. One day in the car after we got back from the store, I was so scared I thought I was going to cry, and I asked my mom, "What would you think if I changed my name?" (I finally found a name that was mine, but haven't told my family yet), and she took 2 seconds and said "What is the name? You would't have asked if you didn't already have one in mind." I told her that I want my name to be 'Diem' and she thought it was the coolest name ever! She was so exceted for the cool new name (she still pronounces it wrong, her inflection on the syllables are off, but it is like a mom saying "THE pokeMAN", so its really enderaring). 2 years later she drove me to San Francisco to help me though Top-Surgery. She cooked for me, helped give me bed baths the first few days post-op, and fretted over the wound dressing and drains. Even before I came out to her, she fully accepted who I was. I liked to be more masculine. The only time she commented on how I dressed was if what I wore looked run down and dirty. When I asked to cut my hair short before I came out, she was excted because "It'll be like Halle Berry!" (a bit wrong, but she had the right spirit). She was just excited to have a human that was her kid and as long as that kid was safe and healthy, she just wanted me to be ME and she supported me completely. (She's a nurse who now wants to get into the Gender Conformation specilty because she just thinks its so ding-dang cool)
I am SO INCREDIBLY LUCKY to have her in my life and I recognize that not everyone has this kind of support and love in theirs. Keep fighting, be who you are, and stay safe. That love WILL find you. A found family is waiting to be made just for you. So keep your heart open, I believe in you.
I never had a celebrity crush either. I could think they looked good, admire their work (even fangirl their work), admire their character, etc, but never have a crush on one. So whoever that was who didn't, I relate xxx
I’m 22, bisexual transgender man. Interestingly the reactions people had to my bisexuality were largely positive (even my strict catholic nan was ok with it) whilst people found it a lot harder to come around to it when coming out as trans.
I also feel that it’s worth contextualising nick’s bisexuality in terms of his actor (kit Connor). He didn’t really get to ‘come out’ because of speculation around him and his costar, and a host of accusations of queer-baiting. I definitely feel that in terms of not really getting to ‘come out’ as such, I was outed by a not very nice person to both of my parents, and my mother then to extended family. Nick’s coming out scene really hit close to home, as somebody who never really got that experience.
My experience was my mother telling me to not tell anyone. Even my siblings. I'm not sure she's told my dad. She also said that I just think the same gender is pretty/handsome and not romantic material. I haven't told anyone and it's been months since that conversation. I don't talk to my mom about anything even related to my feelings.
There are people saying that Nick's coming out scene isn't real enough but the whole point was to give the audience a little section of a happiness that others and I didn't get to experience. I love that scene and I love how nick handled it and I loved how his mom assured him that she was still there for him even saying that if he's lying about liking girls it's fine that he doesn't have to.
Your mom sucks and I’m sorry she didn’t support you the way she should I’ll never understand parents who treat their kids that way you deserve so much more
please use correct pronouns when being an ally and ask appropriate questions! I often get really personal questions, it is ok to ask the question in a respectful way and we will either answer or say I'm not answering that and if we do drop it. please don't minimize our (my) experiences when we are talking about them regardless if they were painful or positive it's our (my) experience. And if you are part of the community be an ally to the other identities within alphabet-mania (LGBTQIA+) you are not a part of
Yes! We need to be accepting of our fellow queer folk!
As a mixed race bi person I’ve always felt like I wasn’t enough one way for either group. Half just wasn’t enough for any of my groups. I’m still struggling to acknowledge and show appreciation to all of myself and not hide some sides of me depending who is around me. Not brown enough for the brown people, too brown for the white people, not gay enough for the gays and too gay for the straights. Simultaneously being too much and not enough. I’m finding more balance now but it took most of my twenties to do it! I found my people.
If you want to be an effective and active ally. Show up. Stand up when you see injustice in your community. Go out and vote if you can. Help us in our fight against these transphobic lawmakers.
I think being a good Ally is about listening, understanding and standing up when you hear homophobia wether or not you know there is someone in the community in the room or not. I think it’s about being supportive and being a defender and obviously educating yourself is great 😊
Part of the community here :)
When it comes to allyship, I'm a bit torn because I feel like a lot of heterosexual people use the label "ally" to convey that they accept LGBTQ+ people, HOWEVER I understand allyship as something more than just accepting someone's love towards others. Allyship means that you stand up for the margalized and actively support. So, I'd rather abolish the noun "ally" and turn towards the verb "allying". It's something active you do, and have to do all over again, because we need people who ally for and with us.
Not “everyone” does have a celebrity crush. The importance of Isaac saying he doesn’t have a celebrity crush is that Isaac is slowly coming to realize he might be asexual.
Jono, you need like 50mg of benadryl at least. Props for you pushing through and filming through an allergy attack. Hope youre feeling better!
And I came out in the very late 90s, and for the most part I had a good experience except for one thing. Coming out is one of the only things we should have control of. Who we come out to when we come out etc the first person I told quite instantly told everyone else at school. Although the reaction as I said was positive, she did take my choice away.
I’m straight but I read a lot about all different kinds of characters. It’s taught me a lot about lgbtia and all that goes with it. I watch shows like heartstopper, dear Victor and 911. I’ve also got several family members who are part of the rainbow family and I just want to say that it sucks that in this day and age it’s not more widely accepted, that there’s people who still think we should live in a time where everyone was too scared to be open about who they are. I’m sorry that many of you have families and friends who don’t accept you or don’t try to understand and while I might not fully understand your experience because i don’t share it. I 1000% accept you and think you are perfect and valid just the way you are and I’m just a stranger on the internet but I hope you don’t ever let anyone dull your shine because you’re amazing. I hope one day you never have to live in fear of discrimination or violence because of who you love or don’t love.
The facial expressions, especially their eyes, capture everything as Nick comes out to his mom. The empathy is very real to both actors
This show is given all the stars in the world rating it's that good ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
The best line here is "I'm sorry if I ever made you feel like you couldn't tell me." That's just a fantastic line and one that doesn't get talked about enough. No judgement. No "I can't believe you didn't tell me" or "I've always known" or "Are you sure you like boys?" or "It's just a phase." Just "I'm sorry if I ever made you feel like you couldn't tell me." A+ mum right there.
I love the show so much because it gives LGBTQIA people hope. All the gay movies I saw after I came out at 18 were filled with heartbreak, suicide and AIDS. I think my life would have been so transformed when I was a teenager in the 90s if I could have seen Heartstopper…especially at a time when I felt so alone and terrified from 13-18. The show makes me cry in so many places because the acting is so well done but also because so many things are relatable in the sense that Charlie and Nick were the dream I had when I was their age. It’s really beautiful.
14:03 One of the most important things someone has to do to be an Ally is to have 2SLGBTQIA+ people first refer to you as one. Often times people will go "As an Ally....(says something homophobic)" when no 2SLGBTQIA+ person has ever called them an Ally (and thus, they are not).
As a queer person, I would agree that you are an Ally, and are allowed to refer yourself as such (though obviously, I don't speak for every 2SLGBTQIA+ person)
I would love to do a video with Jon and Alan about Heartstopper!!! ❤❤
I would love to see Jonathan's opinion on the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode _Conversations with Dead People._ Specifically the Buffy arc.
My coming out came during college/as I was leaving college as I came from a super religious hispanic home in a tiny conservative town in Texas. (Self ID transgender, genderfluid, panromantic demisexual (asexual) My resources were heavily limited and monitored until my 20s, really. So even figuring myself out, it came at coming out as different things. Figuring out things, for myself at least, has been so fluid. And just because I came out as one thing, doesn't invalidate it when I figure out more of myself. And coming out never really ends. I tried a 'one and done' coming out when I saw a lot of family and it backfired heavily. It took my sister in law pulling me aside and asking 'oh, so what name would you like to be called by the girls?' (my nieces) that reminded me that there is happiness as well. I love Heartstopper so much because it is so easy for me to sink into the hardships of being queer that I've experienced and what little I've seen in media. Its bittersweet in that I wish I had this as a kid, but I love that future generations can see the goodness in it and it is such a palate cleanser. Nick coming out always makes me cry because its something I'll never have from my parents, but it also was so healing to imagine that for my inner child. As for allyship, my sister in law (an ally before eventually coming out as well) and my partner (also an ally before coming out), they were the best allies I could have in the earlier years. They researched without my prompting but would ask me specifics just to make sure things were correct, they would correct people in their lives with my name and pronouns and call out transphobia or homophobia even to their loved ones (which is an incredibly hard thing to do in some of the cases). It was listening and caring and showing in unseen actions.
Please make a video about the TV show Fringe.
As a parent of a member of the LGBTQIA+ community....parents NEED good and positive examples out there on media. We've had a TON of dramatic and heart wrenching stories about the suffering of queer people. And I think that was my first thought when my child came out to me. "Oh, no! This means my child will suffer like all those stories you hear about. This means my child will be a statistic that increases their likelihood of abuse, violence, self harm, eating disorders, suicide, depression, anxiety, and discrimination." When what I wish could have been portrayed was the RIGHT way to do it. Most parents are caught off guard...even if they have a feeling about their child...they're still often surprised by the timing of their coming out. So we aren't ready. While the child has likely pondered and planned and weighed pros/cons, planned responses, prepared themselves emotionally and mentally for the results no matter what they are...the parent never gets this preparation time. And so expecting them to respond perfectly is unfair. But it would certainly help to have some narritives that show us how it's done. To get us to know that our kids are ALWAYS better off being themselves. And they shouldn't hide even in the name of public safety. And I hope I got it right. I've come to realize it's the parent's reaction and show of support that can increase or decrease their child's risk of all the terrible things we've heard about that come along with coming out. I want to see the wonderful things. I want to see how much it benefits the child, the parent, and society to have everyone live their truth. And I'm grateful that I'm starting to see that more and more as this young generation grows up. They're our finest generation yet. And I have so much hope for them for the very reason that they won't let archaic convention rule them. We should all be so lucky...and so brave.
another thing that’s important to note is even within the community, allyship is still needed. just because someone falls under the umbrella of LGBTQIA+ does not mean that they will understand the experience of someone else, as it is such a broad range of experiences. there are cis people who may have a queer sexuality who may be transphobic for example, and this is to varying degrees of blatantly hateful to accidentally triggering. some groups within the community feel more marginalized than others and may experience prejudice. we see in the truth or dare clip, isaac is uncomfortable when asked if he has a celebrity crush because he is asexual, but no one pauses to consider that could be his experience. it’s an identity he himself is still coming to terms with and figuring out. it is delicate for him and raw, and one of his own friends casually says (tho jokingly) “oh come on, everyone has a celebrity crush,” and in that moment, without realizing it, she invalidates him. we see it more with him in another scene when his friends think they are being encouraging by rooting for what they perceive as a blossoming relationship between him and another boy, and he gets frustrated with them because they are presuming his sexuality and putting societal expectations on him. it’s a similar sort of frustration a gay person might endure when their friends try to root for them to pursue a relationship with the opposite sex. it’s being unseen and forced into the closet. but what’s additionally upsetting, is this is coming from queer folks and allies. darcy herself is a lesbian, and she thinks her boisterous cheering for isaac to get together with the other boy is a show of support, because that’s how she would like to be shown support as a queer person. unfortunately she does not consider that isaac might not share that experience, so it’s always important not to presume sexuality, and this also extends to not presuming gender. it’s a running gag in the story how everyone presumes nick is either 1) straight, or in this truth or dare scene after he reveals he’s with charlie, 2) gay. repeatedly he has to assert that he is bisexual. bi erasure is a real problem in this sense, and bi people often experience their own issues of prejudice within the community, ranging from only part of their sexuality being acknowledged depending on who their partner is, to being judged for using the identifier “bi” instead of “pan.” there is an ongoing discourse that the term “bi” is actually non-inclusive to non-binary folks, because it seems to say there are only two genders. many bi folks counter that “bilingual” does not mean that you only know two languages, it could mean multiple. some people also use “bi” as a distinction from “pan” in that they may feel more attraction to certain genders than others and that “pan” suggests an equal attraction to all genders. it seems to trend that older generations prefer “bi” as they’ve identified with it already, and younger generations seem to lean toward “pan” out of respect to their nb peers. anyway, many long tangents in there, but my over-arching point is allyship does not end with cis heterosexual folks. everyone needs to be learning and trying to be better for each other.
I LOVE this show! It's so sweet and wholesome, in a good way. I didn't have these types of stories or representation in media during my formative years, because it was typically portrayed as mostly tragic and awful (which I experienced as well, cuz lord knows I was bullied during my teenage years in the 2000s), but i see the portrayal of the story as somewhat hopeful and idealistic in a good way, like it's letting us that nor everything has to be horrible, and while we're not all brought up under the same circumstances, theres still a chance that things can be okay. It covers heavy topics (aside from "coming out" or "being outed," more so in the second season, byt kets nor dorfet Ben in the fiesr season), but i just kove the show and wish I had it 15-20 years ago when i was questioning anf discovering my sexuality. I "semi" came out to my mom as gay when I was 11/12, and she just asked me if i was sure (which i wasn't really at the time, and thats as far as it really went until a couple years later), but when i officially came out around 14/15, she was so incredibly accepting, and essentially mirrored Olivia Coleman's character in Nick's coming out scene. My mom "knew" or at least suspected since I was in elementary school (not trying to promote stereotypes, but that was my experience), and was just so happy that i finally told her my truth for sure, and has been nothing but supportive since. She couldn't care less who i date/love/have a relationship with, as long as they're good to me... I always thought that would be the case, but it was still scary coming out to her and the rest of my family (the majority of whom also didnt care, were just waiting dor me to tell them, or came to accept it really quickly), and i think a big part of that is how tragically "coming out" stories were portrayed 20+ years ago (im 31). Kids need stories like this, whether theyre LGBTQ+ or not. Ive recommended this show to so many people.
I live in Texas, and every day there are reports of the anti-LGBTQ laws being passed by our legislature. There is also a significant rise in hate crimes here as well. What makes an ally" For me the best example is where I work. I am overwhelmed by the co-workers who go out of their way to ask me how my day was, how am I doing, et al - just being normal with me. One co-worker pulled me aside and quietly asked if she could ask a couple of questions. She asked me my pronoun preference and then asked me to go to her if there were any type of problems generated by me being LGBTQ. She wears a pin that says You Are Enough. The other things happened at a Pride Festival in Dallas. I went to the festival and noted a number of church booths among the vendors. I was very leery of them, until one booth - a Southern Baptist one at that, asked my permission to hug me before I went on my way. That made me cry because up until then I felt that the only people in my life were the community. To know that someone was willing to hug me, but first ask if that was ok was very overwhelming. To be an ally is to understand the fear many LGBTQ people have of non-LGBTQ people and also the skepticism of those who falsely call themselves Christian, while verbally or physically attacking LGBTQ people. To be an ally, you must freely give your love without any return expectations.
As a straight grandmother of 5 young people, Nick’s coming out to his mother was a very informative, educational lesson for me of the right way to react to those confessions. If any of my grandkids ever comes out to me I now feel confident that I will say the right things and ask the questions in the right way in the right way.
Listening without judging a person questioning their sexuality is a great place to start. Another way is to step up for that LGBTQ person if necessary. Heartstopper's positivity is a nice change when you look back on how gay people were portrayed in movies in the past. Every LGBTQ persons coming out is different. You do eventually find people who love and accept you just as you are in time.
Kit Connor, who plays Nick, tells of young teens sending him messages (twitter and other means) in which they said they had made a point of sitting with their parents to watch Heartstopper -- especially the scene where Nick comes out to his mom.
They did so, in order to begin the conversation of their own coming out to the parents.
Connor has said that those stories really make his role in the TV show meaningful; he had never thought that an actor his age (he was 18 at the time of the interviews where he talked about it) could affect someone's life like that.
*** ***
Joe Locke, who plays Charlie, had a similar experience when he went back to high school after he was done with filming. There were LGBT meetings in the library once a week -- and when he went to one of them, he saw a LOT of kids there, who said that the TV show had been beneficial to them, by giving them confidence to be who they really are.
I don't personally believe that "it's not realistic" is actually a truly valid criticism anyhow. It's okay if some people prefer to consume realistic fiction, that's fine; but it's not fine[ I don't personally think] for anyone to feel that all other consumers and/or creators of fiction must also be so equally obligated to prefer realistic fiction as well. I think it is every bit as okay for people to enjoy and/or create idealized fiction that portrays things as they personally wish things were or personally feel things *should* be as it is to portray things how they actually _are_ even when that's not always so prim or proper or pretty. Both things have, I believe, different yet equal merits and values and worths and importance in this world and in people's hearts/souls/spirits/minds and lives and all. 🙂💖
I think the show actually does a good job at showing the challenges of coming out or exploring your identity, but the difference is that it doesn't center that experience. Charlie's experience of bullying, Ben, Darcy ect. all have their own challenges or not being accepted, but I think what this show does is highlights the importance of a supportive queer friend group. I think so many of us experienced the grief of seeing this beautifully depicted and aching for that lost experience ourselves. This show is incredible for what it has done for the queer community. I hope allies can learn to stay curious and be aware of their own biases, and to keep in mind that not everyone gets this supportive experience, but that you can make a difference through your own allyship.
I think a very helpful thing can be if someone asks if they can do anything to help you. Like when I came out as aromantic I asked my family to stop teasing me about every time I spoke to random men, since there was nothing romantic in that for me and it was them forcing heterosexuality on me and made me uncomfortable. It can also be a great way to allow someone to ask to use different pronouns or help you buy new clothes or find out if they do or don't feel comfortable with over-the-top ally parents or whatever it may be. Any behaviour need correcting or anything new to be done to help the person? It's a great way to easily open up that conversation and let someone know you're willing to adapt to make them comfortable.
I think something I would add (as a bi person) is that coming out is always scary and awkward. It doesn't matter if you *know* your family or friends are going to be okay with it or happy for you, it's still difficult to work up the courage to do that. Telling my sister and my future mother in law was one of the most awkward and difficult things I've done, despite the fact that I knew they would both be so supportive. The more you love someone, the harder it is to tell them I think, maybe because you don't want anything to change between you , and the stakes are so high if you are rejected. But I am also so so glad that I told them, because being able to be who I really am around them, and knowing that they know who I am and still love me just as much is such a freeing experience.
I honestly don't remember coming out to my family. I remember telling my step-mom, and some of my friends, but it was in casual conversation, and everyone who I can remember directly coming out to was queer. Coming out becomes so inflated with being some big grand gesture or some deeply intimate moment, that I don't really consider what I did coming out, it's just me mentioning another fact about myself.
For some advice on how allies should react, match their tone. If they are mentioning it casually because maybe it had to do with the conversation, you don't have to act like it's a big deal, you can continue the conversation as before. If it's clearly a big and important moment for them, take it seriously, validate them.
I think the truth or dare scene is one of my favorites, but definitely not always the case. I’m in college and I only feel comfortable in that way around my close friends, not even because they have proved their allyship, but because those “strangers” in the room are people that I don’t know the reaction of. It’s definitely more common with ppl my age to bare-minimum be neutral about it, but it’s another to back a friend up like that and it’s awesome to see when it happens.
I was outed by my sister as asexual to my mom, and was told that I was being demonic. Because I wasn't interested in sex??? She then made all of us listen to a lecture about the greatness of monogamous relationships and how every woman should have a man(not a woman either, but that's a whole other can of worms). I didn't even say I didn't want a relationship, I just wanted the romance part lol.
something that annoys me about when people criticise heartstopper for not being 'realistic' because they showed positive coming out experiences is that they did also have negative experiences. a major part of Charlie's trauma is the fact that when he first came out he was horrifically bullied, and when nick came out to his dad and brother it was really shitty for him. additionally, one of the reasons people love heartstopper is because they DIDN'T have a positive coming out experience, one of my friends watched it and cried when nick came out to his mom because he came out as gay and was immediately shut down and told that it was a phase. queer people want to see positive experiences so the can live vicariously through them.
This show is everything I needed when I was growing up. The closest thing I had to Bi rep was Willow from Buffy and even that was a bit sketch. I wish I grew up in a time where it was this nonchalant coming out.
11:34 yes, it is hard and that part does exist and it isn't always easy. But aren't people tiered of seeing that in movies/TV? I want to see how to do it right! I'm tiered of seeing how to do it wrong or how it can go poorly.
I only realized fully I was bi last year, on the way to maccas with two of my mates, where I just casually went 'oh, I think I'm bi'. No judgements, not really anything was said about it. I told mum later that year and I got a similar response, though this year I started getting some things from her that are 100% supportive (like some cool rainbow sunglasses from a color fun run), so yay to that.
Heartstopper is such a cute story for me, and a very healthy one as my first LGBTQ+ novel series to read through, and its in turn inspired a lot of my own writing and acceptance of myself. Mended Light & Cinema Therapy have both also helped me with not just this, but more so life itself, so it's very nice to see you cover this show. Keep being awesome. ❤
I’m 55 years old. Back in the 80’s when I was 19 my mother initiated a conversation while I was talking to her about a friend at the time. I’d been spending a lot of time with him and she’d noticed it. “**** is a very special friend isn’t he” she said. I was horrified and just stared at the road ahead panicking inside but I realised she had me cornered in the car 😂. I just replied “yes he is” and she made it very clear that she was completely supportive, that she thought he was “very good looking and lovely” 😂 and that she’d tell dad when the time was right. She said that she suspected I may have been gay a long time ago after seeing some obvious differences between my younger brother I growing up and how close my friend and I were. Later that night I woke up to hear mum quietly explaining it to dad while they lay in bed. I remember laying there mortified of what his reaction may have been but he was 100% supportive and has always been great about it. My parents and whole family have been wonderful and I’ve never had an issue even from extended family over the years. I know not everyone has it as easy as I did especially considering it was nearly 40 years ago. There is a scene in series 1 episode 7 of “Heartstopper” after the fight scene at the cinema when Nick is with his mum in the car when she says “Charlie’s a very special friend isn’t he” and each time I see that said in a car (exactly what happened to me back in 1988) I still twitch and squirm a bit 😂🤣I really appreciate and applaud your analysis of this wonderful show. I know it was made for teens predominantly and it does kind of romanticise things a bit at times but I am obsessed with “Heartstopper” and I’m so happy it exists for younger people today. Having a show like this when I was a teen would have been amazing as even through I had 100% support from my family I’ve still had issues like being bullied at work etc back in the 90’s. Things are much better now than the but there is still homophobia and even though it’s 2023 not all parents are supportive like mine were nearly 40 years ago. Craig - Australia
This is so beautiful. I'm a huge heartstopper fan! I am straight Christian Ally, that moment with his mum is so lovely (am more her generation). My daughters age group (recently left high school) much more accepting and talk more openly in friend groups but many lgbt+ teens still don't come out til after h/s for fear of judgement by peers (not close) and staff/parents of peers
I love you so much, thanks for being a cool Christian! ❤
Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate religious allies. I'm gay and also religious myself, and so I just wanted to say that I recognize the many religious allies that are out there.
For those who have not read the heartstopper books I would recommend it as they were used as script for the tv show with some adaption for screen play
I'm so glad you finally watched it. It's a beautiful show.
Love the video! Watch Sex Education next ❤
I wish I could watch this show, but I don't live in an accepting home at all. Coming out as trans was better in the community than it was my family. They are uber-conservative Christian Nationalists, and even though I've fully transitioned over the past 5 years, I still get publicly deadnamed and misgendered on a daily basis. I hate having to live here with them! HOWEVER, I have a very amazing and accepting community outside of my house that has been phenomenal over the past 5 years. I love them so much. They've made the journey so much easier for me in a VERY hostile state! I haven't even told my family I'm also bi, but they won't let me have ANYONE visit me in the house, so I just keep my life outside of their view and do my thing. It's their loss if they don't want to be part of my journey.
I would love to see a Mended light & Mormon Stories crossover between Dr.Decker and Dr. Dehlin discussing navigating allyship in the LDS.
A few years ago I was asking the LDS church for help with my rent and the bishop there was so cool. First of all he had sleeve tattoos, he was a convert, I guess converted like in his twenties, and had an openly gay couple in his congregation
I worked with a woman who lied to her church about disowning her son for his sexuality. Made up fake legal documents and everything.
She was a good mom.
I can't believe the topic of this video is Allyship and there's no mention of The Iconic Line!!
"I'm not, like, homophobic... I'm an Ally!"
😆
First of all, this movie looks SO cute, and I need to watch it! Lol 😊 Second, in terms of allyship, I believe true allies will take the time to properly educate themselves about the LGBTQIA+ community. This is especially important with all of the misinformation, misconception, and rumours being spread about our community, especially the trans community, these days. It’s really painful when people you thought supported you actually believe the misinformation instead of you. Sadly, I’m speaking from experience here 😞
The criticisms about the show being too perfect and not showing the bad sides ring hollow in season 2 when we see Nick's relationship with his dad and brother and how hard it is for him to come out and be out to them respectively.
YES
I remember someone posting a comment full of disdain for the lack of anything "real" in the show -- saying that it was all fluff.
So I sat down and listed how much fluff there wasn't:
*** *** The first season begins by showing a toxic subterranean "relationship", between 2 boys -- one a gaslighting 16-year-old and a 14-year-old boy, who had been recently outed and bullied so much that he had to hide at lunch time in the art classroom.
The same older boy sexually assaulted the younger boy, when the younger had just asserted that he no longer wanted them to 'meet up' because the older boy did not care about his feelings.
Let's see...what else does the show touch on?
Stereotyping based on looks ...
General bullying
Homophobic comments told as "jokes"
Peer pressure by bullies
Homophobic responses (on Instagram) to a lesbian's coming out
Bullying of Charlie (at the cinema) culminating in a the F-word slur and a fistfight between Harry and Nick.
Eating disorder
Charlie's depressive response to the bullying, including suggesting it would be better if Charlie "did not exist."
Nick's brother bullying Nick, including bi-erasure (and queer-phobia in general)
Nick's stress/anxiety/panic attacks as he tried to come out.
Nick's uncaring/absentee father
Charlie's authoritarian mother
Charlie passing out from not eating all day
Darcy's homophobic mother who kicked her out of the house for wearing clothes her mom did not approve of.
Darcy believing she was unloveable.
Isaac's emotional distress (due to his being asexual)
Charlie's not wanting discuss his early bullying with his boyfriend NIck, because he didn't want to "burden" Nick.
Charlie's story of being outed and bullied to the point of hating himself.
Charlie confessing to self-harm on top of the eating disorder.
*** ***
Most TV show Reactors have commented that those events touch on things that are 'very real'.
What mitigates them is the fact that the characters have supportive friends/friend groups and some supportive family members.
What might seem 'fluffy' to people who overlook all those issues is the fact that it is love and acceptance that make the characters' lives bearable.
It’s sad to see how hated the community still is even in 2023! And the gen Z (especially post 2000 births) seem to be the most hateful of them all lately.
Being ace I'm afraid to tell people about it because its hard for me to explain without people thinking they way I feel is normal. Right now I think I'm Demisexual but when I try to explain it to people it just sounds like its how everyone feels so I get scared that I'm not actually ace so I don't tell people. Its also hard to explain why I don't have sexual feelings for someone when the social norm is that most people have all these feelings.
I'm Ace too! The way I explain it is "You know how you look at a table and don't think about how sexy the table is? Or how you don't want to be in a realtionship with that table? Thats how I feel about EVERYONE. That really hot celebrety? They are as attractive to me as that table." Not to say people are inanimate objects, but I try to get people to understand that people can look pretty and interesting, like a really well hand crafted table, but their beauty is akin to art rather than the basis of attraction. Others might not be attracted to EVERYONE but I'm attracted to NOONE, which is the big difference. People confuse the idea of "I don't actively want to persue sleeping with someone dispite being attracted to them" with "I don't think anyone is attracive so there is no persute in the name of attraction" (The end result is the same, but the MOTIVE is what makes you ace). At least this is my understanding of MY ace-ness and I hope it helps with possible future explinations for you. Trying to explain Ace-ness is hard, but I believe in you to find the words that make sence of it!
@diem1095 Thank you so much this does actually help! I just also do like having sex and can find people attractive after knowing them for awhile that's just the bit I find hard to explain 😊
I am straight and reading Radio silence has helped me understand what asexual and demisexual is. It's a YA fiction by Alice Oseman, the writer of Heartstopper. The main character Aled is demisexual and has a hard time figuring it out, but then he explains it quite simply / well to his BF and it ends well.
Alice Oseman is ace so it has to be accurate.
Aled is in the Heartstopper comics, but in the series adaptation he's replaced by Isaac, the ace guy who doesn't have a celebrity crash in the Truth or dare game.
Sending some moral support!💕
@lancelotfabre3530 Oh yeah I've got that book, will definitely read it one day 😊
I love that you used the term "queer community" in this video, even if just the one time. I kinda hate the whole LGBTQIA...... label. I don't like trying to say it, it's not easy to get right, which makes it harder for straight people to get used to (and easier to mock). I'm gay, not LGBTQIA... I'm not ALL of those labels... yeah, the queer community is diverse, but so are many others, and they don't need to give everyone their own letter. Lol. I would love to see the queer community take back this label as the norm. It also just sounds way better, and sounds more inclusive. My two cents. And I grew up in a time when "queer" was still really offensive and almost just as bad to say as the f*g word, but not as bad as homo. Lol. That's what I love about this show. I'm tired of all queer content being sad and depressing and just about misery and suicide and drugs, like, we can be happy, but it always ends with someone getting, aids, beaten or dying. Lol. Or all three. This show is so refreshing. Love it. What a world we are in now.
The only people who never had any expectations of me were my grandparents. I told them I was ace and expected the usual 'what is that?' 'it's just a phase' 'you're too young' 'you just haven't met the right person' 'that doesn't exist' 'you're just shy' etc. That I would get from almost everybody else. But no. They were so supportive. My nan just hugged me and said she loved me no matter what. I miss them so much.
In the game of Truth or Dare, after Nick comes out -- saying that he and Charlie are dating and that he himself is bisexual -- James asks if they want the information to be kept secret.
Unfortunately, the video clip was cut off before we could hear the answer.
Nick looks over to Charlie, who signals through facial expressions, what would be ok --- Nick says "We're okay with people knowing."
That was a big deal for each of the guys.
It is possible to not have celebrity crushes, at least in a sense everyone usually understands them. I'm aroace and I have celebrity crushes but they are different for me. I don't want to be in any intimate relationship with them. I may find them aesthetically pleasing and set them as my wallpaper or I like their persona and want to be friends with them. But that's not how most people would describe celebrity crush.
I'd love to see you therapize Marceline and Bubblegum's relationship from Advebture Time.