I’m a historian and I’m on it. When I say JS was guilty, I mean there is no doubt that he violated the statute for disorderly persons. He confessed it and his witnesses confirmed it. The records show that Neely had found enough evidence to send the case to the Court of Special Sessions, but changed his mind and decided the case himself. His verdict: JS guilty. It began as a hearing, but turned into a trial when JS changed his plea after having been brought back to South Bainbridge.
This was honestly the first thing that started my drifting from the church. I already stopped attending church the second I moved out, but after a few years being happily inactive, I thought "why was he getting chucked into jail all the time?" I'd always been taught that Joseph was persecuted because the devil turned people's hearts against the church...but as an adult I realized that, that's just not how people function. Read a wikipedia article and never turned back. Thanks Dan for these videos. They've really helped me see the blatant fraud I was raised in.
He was guilty of pretending to see underground and to find lost objects with a seer stone, which under NY law at the time was consider disorderly conduct. The law did not care who approached whom or if JS was a real or pretended seer. Stowell approached JS because he had a reputation for this kind of thing, which he actively cultivated for three years prior, according to his own admission at trial.
He had authority to convict on disorderly cases, and in this case JS made confession of guilt. So witnesses weren't needed and under the statute Neely could rule. In my reconstruction, JS had to be brought back to South Bainbridge by Constable DeZeng, at which time JS apparently threw himself on the mercy of the court and reached an off-the-record agreement with Neely.
Seer stones are associated with divination, something the Bible condemns. See Lev. 19:26, Deut. 18:10, Jer. 14:14, Acts 16:16 Joseph Smith was tried and convicted in New York for deceiving others that he could find buried treasure by looking at seer stones. Is it any wonder why the church and its missionaries paint a different picture to its converts and members.
@@mikerope5785 This would assume that Jesus was a mere man and not the Son of God. I realize however that Mormons at one time believed that JS would be present on the last day with Adam and Jesus .Another scenario involves Adam, Jesus, and God the Father. It all depends on whom you judge to be a god, and Mormons assume that men can become gods, a very different concept from that of the Old Testament.
You people are so into defending the occult practicing Smith that you're willing to slander the Lord Jesus Christ to defend your sect's nefarious founder. This is one of the many reasons I don't believe you people are even remotely Christians
I explain in the video that it began as a pre-trial hearing because Neely wanted to send it to a three-justice Court of Special Sessions, but he changed his mind and decided the case himself. However, although JS was found guilty, Neely didn’t formally convict him.
I’m not sure you are following my argument here. Testimony given at the trial by Joseph Smith himself and those defending him establishes that he used a seer stone to supposedly locate buried treasure or lost objects. The issues of conviction and sentencing have no bearing on the court record’s use as historical evidence. Stowell defended Smith, but he also confirmed he claimed to find buried treasure that was not recovered due to its slipping away under enchantment.
I suppose that when someone gets a good con rolling and people start believing, it's actually easier to make new stuff up and keep the con going than to back off. Smith's progress shows that pattern. He was already thought to be what believers in folk magic called a seer, a person with "second sight" since he was a boy. He just capitalized on that.
So was The Boy Prophet Samuel of The Old Testament:1 Samuel 3:9-11King James Version (KJV) 9 Therefore Eli said unto Samuel, Go, lie down: and it shall be, if he call thee, that thou shalt say, Speak, Lord; for thy servant heareth. So Samuel went and lay down in his place. 10 And the Lord came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth. 11 And the Lord said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle., not to mention David:. 1Chronicles 29:29 29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer
@@scottwins2 these scripture examples do not legitimize Joseph Smith. The gifts are from the Spirit of God and never used for gain and money. We see how a magician was rebuked in the new testament for even wanting to buy such gifts from an apostle. Joseph was engaging in the occult such as divination and interpretation of omens and etc. That is clearly not gifts of the Holy Spirit. Many in that era practiced such folk magic and it's ridiculous to attribute such wordly filth of a practice to the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
@@scottwins2 which Mormon apologist book did you rely on for that citation? That verse doesn’t in anyway vindicate the use of fraud and deception to dupe others into paying you
I assure you that there is no need for me to rant. You haven’t said anything that I haven’t heard before by better apologists than you. I suspect that you either haven’t watched my video or don’t understand it. You apparently don’t understand that my video answers the old apologetic you are repeating. The verdict of guilty is recorded at the end of Neely’s record. To understand why that is, watch the video.
I was speaking historically. Historians don't care if someone gets off on a technicality or was given leniency. Whether or not Joseph Smith was convicted the evidence is clear that he violated NY law by "pretending" to see treasures under ground and finding lost objects with a seer stone. He confessed to having done so.
Clearly, we see Joseph as the coo coo person here, literally making trouble for the community. And now we see his followers making trouble for the community at large in these latter days.
Scott, This video is an intellectual endeavor to understand Mormon origins. It’s not persecution. Calling anyone who disagrees with JS’s claims a persecutor is an accusation that works against you, not for you. Mormonism proclaims that all other churches are false and the creeds are an abomination. By your definition, that’s persecution.
This is rediculous. It doesn't matter how many times Joseph was arrested. Where there's smoke, there's fire. B.I.T.E. control has kept you in the dark. In reality you should be questioning Josephs character. Mr. Hale did. He tried his best to protect his daughter from harm. He failed and Emma suffered for it.
That’s a non-sequitur since a non-conviction does not mean not guilty. It can mean there wasn’t enough evidence to convict, or there was a plea bargain. There was enough evidence to convict. The 6 instances of “pretended” point to that conclusion and clearly a Court of Special Sessions was called, but because of his youth JS escaped punishment. It's less important that JS violated NY law than the testimony detailing his method of operation as a treasure seerer and stories of enchanted treasures.
There is a big difference between the old testament prophets and Joseph Smith. The old testament prophets made no false prophecy. Which means that Smith was a false prophet. No doubt. Fair arguments can be made as to whether or not he was a scam artists or Charlatan but no argument can honestly be made that he was a prophet of God. If you believe that he was your deceived by the enemy. Don't let pride rob you of the grace of God. He paid dearly for it.
+grunner brazell You claim, The old testament prophets made no false prophecy. Obviously you have never read the Old Testament. Each of these Biblical prophets made a prophecy that failed, that did not come true. 1.Jonah prophecy -- Jonah3 [4] AndJonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. result -- was not destroyed 2. Isaiah prophecy -- Isa 38 [1] In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live. result -- Hezekiah did not die for another fifteen years 3.Nathan -- prophecy -- 2 Sam 7 [2] That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains. [3] And Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee. Nathan result -- David did not build the temple, but his son built it.
+niu motu'u Thanks for leaving on your own...you saved us the trouble of throwing your weak ass out. We're stronger for your leaving and you appear happier...a win-win. Have a nice, unaccountable life.
Another factor about the 1826 Hearing is that the early critics essentially ignored it. They didn’t bring it up in another trial in the same area in 1830. It was not mentioned in any of the affidavits collected by Hurlbut in 1833. Although the trial was briefly mentioned in 1831, it was not mentioned again in a published record for 46 years
Scott, So what’s that supposed to prove? Are you trying to make some argument from silence? How can you say the 1826 trial wasn’t mentioned in the 1830 trials? According to Justice Noble JS plead the statute of limitations in South Bainbridge, which necessitated another trial in Colesville. So, you are wrong. It was mentioned and the same people were involved. Hurlbut didn’t interview anyone from the area of the trial.
Smith wasnt a prophet but he was an interesting character fo sure. I wonder how much treause he ever actally located as a peoffessional treasure hunter . Are there any records to this affect?
There is no point to be made by Hurlbut not mentioning the trial since it was not widely known, nor did he interview anyone in South Bainbridge. The records are there for historians to use regardless of what anti-Mormons may or may not have thought about the trial. It’s simply not relevant. The 1826 trial was relevant to the 1830 trials since some of the same witnesses testified and, as Noble stated, JS pled statute of limitations.
Straight up clown show..... I remember hearing of JS trying to walk on water in from of residents of South Bainbridge, only to fall off in the water from a board being removed by some onlookers watching his scheme to persuade.... I grew up across the street from the house where JS married Emma Hale. I was constantly watching tour busses and visitors paying homage to their false founder....what a shame...
This chapter from Joseph Smith's early life is relevant to his later claims that he had the ability to translate ancient records using the same peep stone method and whether the golden plates existed in reality, or simply as a figment of human imagination.
Past behaviour predicts future behaviour... Once a disorderly person, always a disorderly person until he discharged a gun in a jail.... and was rebuffed for it.
This is interesting but I think largely moot because DNA science has proven the Book of Mormon false and inaccurate. Therefore Mormonism is itself moot. All LDS are spiritual refugees from the Book of Mormon, eventually.
While I'm pretty sure JS was a fraud. DNA is not that easily dismissed with the discovery of Haplogroup X in the mound builders DNA. But during JS's era, there were more than a few theories abounding that the mound builders were from European or Israeli descent. Not a novel concept on JSs part. Truth is probably that there were people's circumnavigating the globe much, much farther back than our paid for propagandized history tells us. Much has been covered up, falsified, and or fabricated to tell us a story of history that a certain very small group of people wish us to believe. Keep an open mind is all I'm saying.
There is so much satanic BS here! The statement about DNA evidence is just another one of these evil satanic lies! If you really want to know the damn truth instead of just helping Satan and this evil apostates to destroy the church, then just look at DNA evidence for Book of Mormon Geography by Rod Mildrum! I dare apostate! Then you will see how wrong and stupid you are!!!
The Savior said,.."Blessed are ye when men shall revile you,...and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake; rejoice and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so persecuted they the Prophets which were before you." ..., we are the men; for we know that the world not only hate us, but they speak all manner of evil of us falsely, for no other reason than that we have been endeavoring to teach the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ - Josep Smith
To historians, it doesn’t matter if JS was found guilty or not. What matters is the testimony given at the trial about JS’s activities as a treasure seer. The verdict of any court can’t decide whether or not he was a prophet. So I have no motivation to make JS guilty and don’t understand the need of apologists to keep JS’s legal record pure.
In my opinion, one should be highly skeptical of anything Joseph Sr. and Lucy said if their claims were in their own self interest. For example, I don't believe that Joseph Sr. was sincere when he allegedly testified at the 1826 trial that both he and Joseph were mortified that Joseph's "gift" should be used in search of filthy lucre. Joseph Sr. was himself a treasure digger and used Joseph to help him find treasures. Joseph Sr. was hardly the distinguished gentleman that Mormons suppose him to have been, but was a dirt poor, ragged man with a serious drinking problem. I believe Joseph Sr. and Jr. were simply lying to try to get Joseph off the hook. As another example, Lucy claimed that on the night Moroni first appeared to Joseph Jr. the family spent the evening discussing religion, but Martin Harris claimed that Joseph Jr. had led a treasure digging excursion that evening.
Scott, please note that I have argued that it was begun as a preliminary hearing with Neely concluding that there was enough evidence to proceed with a three-justice Court of Special Sessions. Further, I argue that Neely changed his mind and passed judgment himself, but that a plea bargain prevented the judgment from being made official. This explains why the record reads like a pre-trial hearing but has a judgment at the end.
Wesley Walters, really? Walters was known to be extremely anti-LDS and hated the saints. He would do anything he could to destroy the church and defame the prophet Joseph Smith. His findings or writings are worthless.
More helpful to attack the arguments and his documentation than the man. Accusations of bias easily go both ways. Your words can be applied just as easily to anyone presenting against Hitler.
My statement is true; Walters hated the saints and worked tirelessly to defame Joseph Smith, a man he never knew. I'm not attacking Walters, just his bigotry towards the saints of God and God's prophet.
Great research, it appears to be fair and balanced, Thank you Dan! Reading the comments below it appears that most are not understanding the bigger picture context of the issue of the trial in the first place. The minimizing of the involvement and overhauling of a public persona. It appears that is what was/is necessary to make the rest of the story acceptable. It takes courage to face issues that challenge your personal beliefs, many seem so threatened by anything that goes against the official story. The truth always survives the lies, it's important for anyone searching for accuracy and truth to keep pressing forward. Onward and upward!
Scott M Calling it a "Hearing" sounds boring (even though it was just a hearing). So, yahoo's like Dan play loose with the truth. If a lie will make the church look bad, they use one.
-- I have visited many different "Biblical " churchs and have never found anyone with a closer relationship with our Savior than good Mormons. Regardless of criticisms of J Smith , isn't it interesting that a "false prophet" could start a Church that has better fruit than any other I visited? Consider this article I wrote. ----- Why not the Best? ----- When I was just a boy, I was quite serious minded and as I would look up into the night sky, I would wonder, “What is God like?” and “Who am I to him?” Well, I quickly discovered that there was no agreement on questions about God among any of the religions. Thus began a lifelong quest to find the answers. I have spent over thirty years talking to people of other faiths and visiting their services. It has been a wonderful experience and I think it has helped me to get a glimpse of why God allows so many religions. First of all, I have discovered that God answers the prayers of all people who call on Him. I have heard compelling testimonies of God’s mercy and miracles in all faiths, and even those without a church. It seems irrefutable that He does not require you to pronounce His Name correctly. Father, Jesus, God, Allah, Jehovah, Lord, etc. all seem to be understood by Him. He seems to know the intent of our prayers and our heart. We can communicate with Him even with incorrect beliefs. He loves all men (and women) and we are truly all brothers and sisters. Unfortunately when God answers the prayers of people in the different faiths, they misunderstand that answer as being “proof” of the correctness of their particular faith. They think God has put His stamp of approval on their religion and that they are authorized to persecute and sometimes kill people of other religions in defense of their “God”.None the less, There is an overwhelming amount of good that all religions accomplish. Looking at the big picture closer I discovered that all religions are trying to get their membership to do three things, 1. They want you to have a personal love and relationship with God. 2. They want you to actually live-----what boils down to be the “Ten Commandments” (Christians, Muslims ,Buddhists, Jews Hindus phrase it differently but it all comes down to the Ten Commandments) 3. They want you to treat our body as if it is the temple of God. This is what the leaders of all the different faiths would like their members to do. I discovered that when people actually do these three things, they all have the same results---Heaven on Earth. Or to be more realistic, they have greater happiness than through any other path. The good days are better and the tragedies are easier to survive. There are people in every faith that achieve these three things, and get “Heaven on Earth” So does that mean it doesn’t matter what religion you have? No, there is a difference. I’m a practical guy, and the practical measurable difference in the different religions is the percentage of members in a religion that achieve those three things. Some faiths may only have less than 10% of their members that do those three things. Other religions may have 20%, and others 30% . Results matter! In my lifetime of personal observations, I have not found any faith that comes close to success the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) has in getting it’s members to live those three things. It is the Best. I have six children who are happily married in the temple. I have twenty grandchildren who go to church with both parents every Sunday. I love my kids and grand kids more than life itself. I would not lead them anywhere, but where they will receive the greatest joy. Remember--- Results matter.----- Good enough is not good enough.------ Why not the Best?-------Let me use an example, Let us imagine that you have a son who you are sending to law school. You need to choose a school. School “A” has a record that 10% of it’s graduating students are able to pass the bar. School “B” has a record that 90% of its graduating students pass the bar exam. Now, I think my son is smart enough that he could be part of the 10% in school “A”, but as a loving father, I want him to have every advantage, so I want him to go to school “B” where 90% pass. It’s the best. and I want my loved ones to have every opportunity for happiness! As I said: - Good enough is not good enough for my family--. My wife and I are both converts to the Church, We have done what the Church teaches for the last 35years. It has delivered Heaven on Earth and that tremendous Joy that comes from a very personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Everyone we know who has done likewise, has had the same results. The Church instills a increased testimony of Jesus Christ that helps its members do “those three things” that brings heaven here and hereafter. Why not the Best? I have observed most ex Mormons are bitter and unchurched. Not what I want for my family. I'm sure some ex Mormons are happy, but, it seems to be a very small percentage. So,Please write something like this that is positive that highlights the good things about your path that I am missing. Scott Marshall
+Scott Marshall I am with you, my son told me the other day he noticed something that all th epeople he knows that left the lDS Faith never sem to improve their position. I thought for amoment and agreed. I found also that most Mormon bias haters and critics don't keep the Sabbath Day Holy and profess no Religion.
Dan does his research well, I have no doubt. But he's such a poor reader that it's painful to listen to him for more than a few minutes, and his monotonous and hesitant speech hinders comprehension.
One can read public writings, extemporaneous sermons, and private journals. One can reflect on the hundreds or thousands of miles of travel on missionary journeys and Church business. If the writings of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Heber C. Kimball, George Q. Cannon and many others cannot persuade someone that they were honest men (even if mistaken) then one should sincerely question whether such a person is capable of looking charitably upon any Mormon.
Now. It seems that the scryer profession wasn't good enough. But by the time Smith got the Mansion House in Nauvoo, I think it's safe to say that the scryer profession had successfully been turned into the Prophet profession. From a log cabin to Mansion House. The scheme was working very well, eh?
Have you ever lived in Utah County as the only non-Mormon in your neighborhood? I ask because I remember when we decided to move our family there from a very diverse California in the early 2000's. Our friends and family told us we were nuts for considering moving there amongst the mormons. I lost count at the number of times I responded with the question, "Really, how bad can it be? They are mormons, so what?" I had met a few mormons while in nursing school, even had plenty of knocks at my door from them. They seemed rather harmless to me. Boy was I naive! Nothing could have prepared me (or my children!) for the gang like ongoing extreme harrassment and bullying inflicted on my kids by the other kids and the outward ostracism directed towards all of us from the adults in the neighborhood. I've lived in many places in this country, from one end of the socioeconomic spectrum to the other and I've never experienced anything like it. We were initially greeted with many warm welcomes and introductions until I outed ourselves by mowing the lawn on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Neighbors that once waved as they passed by literally turned their heads and would even walk to the other side of the street to avoid passing our house from the sidewalk. When my vocal "hello's", "how are you's" and "good to see you's" were met with faster turning away and scramblings to get inside their front door, I was hit so hard with laughter. A sense of humor sure came in handy during those 8 yrs.
The drunken mobs could never get there stories straight. 44 times in court and not one conviction. They were the murders and them you give a free ride. Boggs would be proud of you.
The men who shot Smith in Carthage were the same city leaders who allowed the fraud and his dupes into Illinois in the first place... Smith had called out the Nauvoo Legion to rescue him and was killed trying to escape out a window. Neither a "Saint" or a "Martyr" by definition...
That includes historically. No technicality or leniency. In the case you are talking about the man he supposedly lied to defended him. After all it was him that approached Joseph for help not the other way around.
The whole Smith family was in on the con... one day you'll get sick of these hucksters, like the good people of NY, OH, MO, IL, and coming soon - Utah, Idaho, Arizona, Mexico, etc..
And yet, in spite of all the times Joseph Smith was arrested, he was only found guilty _once_ - and that for a small infraction that he paid an equally small fine for.
He was a thoroughly interesting man, a con man, a false prophet (there's no such thing as a prophet, and never was,) and a well-read person. He synthesized a religion from diverse previous fantasies.
Smell the cognitive dissonance - right up until the TBMs stick their fingers in their ears and start chanting "Pay Lay Ale, la la la, I can't hear you!"
Scott, I have not argued for a post-trial commitment, but for JS’s re-arrest ten miles away with the view of taking him to jail, which was averted by an off-the-record agreement. I am not judging JS based on the verdict of this trial.
Persecution has not stopped the progress of truth, but has only added fuel to the flame, it has spread with increasing rapidity. Proud of the cause which they have espoused, and conscious of our innocence, and of the truth of their system, amidst calumny and reproach, have the Elders of this Church gone forth, and planted the Gospel in almost every state in the Union. . . . It has also spread into England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. History of the Church, 4:540. Joseph Smith
What it comes down to is this and it simple. The more you complicate things I lot of people start to loose interest. After 184 years of the LDS church's existence their should be a book of mormon artifact appearing in so called book of mormon lands and there truly isn't !
Yes, Walters removed the water-soaked documents from the basement of the Norwich Jail out of concern to preserve them. No serious researcher on either side believes the documents were tampered with. If Walters had, it would be possible to demonstrate it. Nobody has.
He could not have ruled anyway since there were no formal witnesses and if there were they would have had to sign their names. Therefore no conviction because there was no case.
"...He who addeth unto My Word unto him shall be added the plagues contained therein..." Smith was always dodging the women's husbands that he put his hands on, ever embarrassing himself by people with better sense (Kinderhook Plates, Greek Psalter, Book of Abraham, etc.), tarred and feathered in Kirtland, wanted for bank fraud in OH, always surrounded by religious nuts and fruitcakes, expulsed under the threat of extermination, fleeing - then calling for his flock to follow (unlike any other prophet/God ordained leader in the Bible), betrayed by his own witnesses and finally shot like a rat after shooting 3 men then attempting escape. Stop embarrassing yourself! No one is going to take a bite of your turd sandwich!
To which mobs are you referring? The former Mormons that would attack current Mormons or the faithful danite Mormons that would attack the former and nonmormons?
Jason Marlow Using the innocent a cannon fodder, I would hope would be even below you, sir. You know where the blood lies yet the lies of the Lilburn Boggs and his Extermination Order 44 fan club still exist. Sad really
GOD Has never Called Prophets in His time because they were perfect. He called them because they were Humble and willing to be taught of the Lord. Even in the Bible, i read of Prophets accepted of the Lord but they had a lot of weaknesses. All this criticism of JOSEPH SMITH is full of crap.
If God doesn't call prophets because they are perfect, why are you concerned about this criticism? It seems like even if Joseph Smith was a fraudulent man, it wouldn't change your opinion of him as a prohpet
The original transscripts were taken for there historial place without documentation thusly they can nott be relied upon even though there is no trial shown whatsoever.
Smith admitted guilt when he said he could really find treasures underground with the stone. No treasure was ever found. Smith made many men into fools - you included!
Hell may pour forth its rage like the burning lava of Mount Vesuvius . . . and yet shall "Mormonism" stand. . . . God is the author of it. He is our shield. . . . It was by Him we received the Book of Mormon; and it is by Him that we remain unto this day; and by Him we shall remain, if it shall be for our glory; and in His Almighty name we are determined to endure tribulation as good soldiers unto the end. Joseph Smith
Wesley P. Walters has demonstrated that this is not a trial. The Constable’s charges of “19 cents attached to the mittimus marks it as the pre-trial ‘commitment for want of bail’ …and not the post-trial ‘warrant of commitment, on conviction, twenty-five cents
LDS Church leader Dallin H. Oaks has cautioned, “We should judge the actions of our predecessors on the basis of the laws and commandments and circumstances of their day, not ours. Wesley P. Walters has demonstrated that this is not a trial. The Constable’s charges of “19 cents attached to the mittimus marks it as the pre-trial ‘commitment for want of bail’ …and not the post-trial ‘warrant of commitment, on conviction, twenty-five cents
If I had a brick in my hand that doesn't mean it was once library. Same with historians, depends on the perception. This was not trial and all your ranting will never make it so. Nor was there a verdict of guilty recorded by the courts of the matter .
YOUR LIAR JOSEPH ONLY HAS ONE WIFE EMMA. HINCKLEY TALKED ABOUT THIS. SO IF I BASE EVERYTHING ON HINCKLEY IF HE IS LiyING LEAVE LDS IF HE IS CORRECT STAY IN LDS.
If Gods are individuals who have passed through mortality and have progressed to Godhood, how has one person of the Trinity (the Holy Spirit) attained Godhood without getting a body?
j.s was a poor glass looker, he's in his 20's without a dime to his name, however? j.s has tried everything until he claimed that he saw a vision of angels and a god? Anyways? records are not for the fainted hearts hhhhhhhaaaa
The lawyers of the time would have had a copy of Blackstone's Commentary on the English Law, which was published 50 years earlier. Here is Blackstone's entry on mittimus: "UPON the whole, if the offense be not bailable, or the party cannot find bail, he is to be committed to the county jail by the mittimus of the justice, or warrant under his hand and seal, containing the cause of his commitment; there to abide till delivered by due course of law. But this imprisonment, as has been said, is only for safe custody, and not for punishment: therefore, in this dubious interval between the commitment and trial, a prisoner ought to be used with the utmost humanity; and neither be loaded with needless fetters, or subjected to other hardships than such as are absolutely requisite for the purpose of confinement only: though what are so requisite, must too often be left to the discretion of the jailers; who are frequently a merciless race of men, and, by being conversant in scenes of misery, steeled against any tender sensation. Yet the law will not justify them in fettering a prisoner, unless where he is unruly, or has attempted an escape: this being the humane language of our ancient lawgivers, “custodes poenam sibi commissorum non augeant, nec eos torqueant; sed omni saevitia remota, pietateque adhibita, judicia debite exequantur.”
@@danvogel6802 hahahaha it was a real problem? or did the court recorder just make it up? show us another case any person other than against Joseph Smith.. it was a bogus charge.
@@michaelparks5669 If you watch the video, you will see that it was part of the statute against disorderly persons. It was seldom enforced, usually when some complained. Ransford Rogers was convicted and imprisoned briefly for similar activity. Look him up, if you're interested.
@@danvogel6802Are you serious? hahaha "disorderly persons" is when a cop has nothing better to charge someone with. It is a minor charge at best. How many times was Jesus accused of such a charge? Many times. Jesus simply walked away. If convicted most often there is no jail time. it is expunged in most states in a year at the most.. You make it sound like Joseph Smith was a felon . this is a nothing burger.
@@michaelparks5669 I'm glad you are relieved that it was a minor infraction of a law that no longer exists, but that is not what you asked. The most important thing to learn from the 1826 court proceedings is the testimony given by JS and Josiah Stowell about JS's method of operation.
Another factor about the 1826 Hearing is that the early critics essentially ignored it. They didn’t bring it up in another trial in the same area in 1830. It was not mentioned in any of the affidavits collected by Hurlbut in 1833. Although the trial was briefly mentioned in 1831, it was not mentioned again in a published record for 46 years
I’m a historian and I’m on it. When I say JS was guilty, I mean there is no doubt that he violated the statute for disorderly persons. He confessed it and his witnesses confirmed it. The records show that Neely had found enough evidence to send the case to the Court of Special Sessions, but changed his mind and decided the case himself. His verdict: JS guilty. It began as a hearing, but turned into a trial when JS changed his plea after having been brought back to South Bainbridge.
I grew up in Afton, the stories and BS around this whole entity, is nothing but fraud.... theft by deception....
7.2.23 What EXQUISITE IRONY. This Merlot is "aging" perfectly 💜
This was honestly the first thing that started my drifting from the church. I already stopped attending church the second I moved out, but after a few years being happily inactive, I thought "why was he getting chucked into jail all the time?" I'd always been taught that Joseph was persecuted because the devil turned people's hearts against the church...but as an adult I realized that, that's just not how people function. Read a wikipedia article and never turned back. Thanks Dan for these videos. They've really helped me see the blatant fraud I was raised in.
He was guilty of pretending to see underground and to find lost objects with a seer stone, which under NY law at the time was consider disorderly conduct. The law did not care who approached whom or if JS was a real or pretended seer. Stowell approached JS because he had a reputation for this kind of thing, which he actively cultivated for three years prior, according to his own admission at trial.
He had authority to convict on disorderly cases, and in this case JS made confession of guilt. So witnesses weren't needed and under the statute Neely could rule. In my reconstruction, JS had to be brought back to South Bainbridge by Constable DeZeng, at which time JS apparently threw himself on the mercy of the court and reached an off-the-record agreement with Neely.
Seer stones are associated with divination, something the Bible condemns. See Lev. 19:26, Deut. 18:10, Jer. 14:14, Acts 16:16
Joseph Smith was tried and convicted in New York for deceiving others that he could find buried treasure by looking at seer stones.
Is it any wonder why the church and its missionaries paint a different picture to its converts and members.
Turning water into wine is also associated with divination. I don't see you calling out Jesus for being a sorcerer.
@@mikerope5785 This would assume that Jesus was a mere man and not the Son of God. I realize however that Mormons at one time believed that JS would be present on the last day with Adam and Jesus .Another scenario involves Adam, Jesus, and God the Father. It all depends on whom you judge to be a god, and Mormons assume that men can become gods, a very different concept from that of the Old Testament.
Translation in Deut. 18 deviate markedly from original usages.
You people are so into defending the occult practicing Smith that you're willing to slander the Lord Jesus Christ to defend your sect's nefarious founder. This is one of the many reasons I don't believe you people are even remotely Christians
I explain in the video that it began as a pre-trial hearing because Neely wanted to send it to a three-justice Court of Special Sessions, but he changed his mind and decided the case himself. However, although JS was found guilty, Neely didn’t formally convict him.
Well done Dan. The ranks of X-Mormons swell.
I’m not sure you are following my argument here. Testimony given at the trial by Joseph Smith himself and those defending him establishes that he used a seer stone to supposedly locate buried treasure or lost objects. The issues of conviction and sentencing have no bearing on the court record’s use as historical evidence. Stowell defended Smith, but he also confirmed he claimed to find buried treasure that was not recovered due to its slipping away under enchantment.
I suppose that when someone gets a good con rolling and people start believing, it's actually easier to make new stuff up and keep the con going than to back off. Smith's progress shows that pattern. He was already thought to be what believers in folk magic called a seer, a person with "second sight" since he was a boy. He just capitalized on that.
So was The Boy Prophet Samuel of The Old Testament:1 Samuel 3:9-11King James Version (KJV)
9 Therefore Eli said unto Samuel, Go, lie down: and it shall be, if he call thee, that thou shalt say, Speak, Lord; for thy servant heareth. So Samuel went and lay down in his place.
10 And the Lord came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.
11 And the Lord said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle., not to mention David:. 1Chronicles 29:29
29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer
@@scottwins2 these scripture examples do not legitimize Joseph Smith. The gifts are from the Spirit of God and never used for gain and money. We see how a magician was rebuked in the new testament for even wanting to buy such gifts from an apostle. Joseph was engaging in the occult such as divination and interpretation of omens and etc. That is clearly not gifts of the Holy Spirit. Many in that era practiced such folk magic and it's ridiculous to attribute such wordly filth of a practice to the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
yea we see proof with Trump lies backed by false prophets backing him all conman
@@scottwins2 which Mormon apologist book did you rely on for that citation? That verse doesn’t in anyway vindicate the use of fraud and deception to dupe others into paying you
I assure you that there is no need for me to rant. You haven’t said anything that I haven’t heard before by better apologists than you. I suspect that you either haven’t watched my video or don’t understand it. You apparently don’t understand that my video answers the old apologetic you are repeating. The verdict of guilty is recorded at the end of Neely’s record. To understand why that is, watch the video.
HRC was ruled as innocent by the human made American justice system. I am sure that verdict is just as correct as yours, mortal boy.
I was speaking historically. Historians don't care if someone gets off on a technicality or was given leniency. Whether or not Joseph Smith was convicted the evidence is clear that he violated NY law by "pretending" to see treasures under ground and finding lost objects with a seer stone. He confessed to having done so.
Clearly, we see Joseph as the coo coo person here, literally making trouble for the community. And now we see his followers making trouble for the community at large in these latter days.
That's a lie
Scott M - The history -- yea, even in the LDS library, shows that he was coo coo and a fraud.
***** That's why the members of The Church affectionately, called him, "Brother Joseph"
So did the church members of Jim Jones venerate their "pastor"...
That too is a lie, pathetic
Scott,
This video is an intellectual endeavor to understand Mormon origins. It’s not persecution. Calling anyone who disagrees with JS’s claims a persecutor is an accusation that works against you, not for you. Mormonism proclaims that all other churches are false and the creeds are an abomination. By your definition, that’s persecution.
This is rediculous. It doesn't matter how many times Joseph was arrested. Where there's smoke, there's fire. B.I.T.E. control has kept you in the dark. In reality you should be questioning Josephs character. Mr. Hale did. He tried his best to protect his daughter from harm. He failed and Emma suffered for it.
That’s a non-sequitur since a non-conviction does not mean not guilty. It can mean there wasn’t enough evidence to convict, or there was a plea bargain. There was enough evidence to convict. The 6 instances of “pretended” point to that conclusion and clearly a Court of Special Sessions was called, but because of his youth JS escaped punishment. It's less important that JS violated NY law than the testimony detailing his method of operation as a treasure seerer and stories of enchanted treasures.
There is a big difference between the old testament prophets and Joseph Smith. The old testament prophets made no false prophecy. Which means that Smith was a false prophet. No doubt. Fair arguments can be made as to whether or not he was a scam artists or Charlatan but no argument can honestly be made that he was a prophet of God. If you believe that he was your deceived by the enemy. Don't let pride rob you of the grace of God. He paid dearly for it.
+grunner brazell
You claim, The old testament prophets made no false prophecy.
Obviously you have never read the Old Testament.
Each of these Biblical prophets made a prophecy that failed, that did not come true.
1.Jonah
prophecy -- Jonah3 [4] AndJonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
result -- was not destroyed
2. Isaiah
prophecy -- Isa 38 [1] In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.
result -- Hezekiah did not die for another fifteen years
3.Nathan --
prophecy -- 2 Sam 7 [2] That the king said unto Nathan the prophet, See now, I dwell in an house of cedar, but the ark of God dwelleth within curtains. [3] And Nathan said to the king, Go, do all that is in thine heart; for the LORD is with thee. Nathan
result -- David did not build the temple, but his son built it.
+niu motu'u Thanks for leaving on your own...you saved us the trouble of throwing your weak ass out. We're stronger for your leaving and you appear happier...a win-win. Have a nice, unaccountable life.
+Tgirl B I'll not stereotype Mormons...I'll leave that to you.
+Tgirl B Not hateful, just honest. Truth hurts sometimes. Look away if it offends you.
+niu motu'u I have no problem with you leaving the church...I was wishing you well on your new journey out of accountability.
what an exhausting and damning video series. thanks.
Another factor about the 1826 Hearing is that the early critics essentially ignored it.
They didn’t bring it up in another trial in the same area in 1830.
It was not mentioned in any of the affidavits collected by Hurlbut in 1833.
Although the trial was briefly mentioned in 1831, it was not mentioned again in a published record for 46 years
Scott, So what’s that supposed to prove? Are you trying to make some argument from silence? How can you say the 1826 trial wasn’t mentioned in the 1830 trials? According to Justice Noble JS plead the statute of limitations in South Bainbridge, which necessitated another trial in Colesville. So, you are wrong. It was mentioned and the same people were involved. Hurlbut didn’t interview anyone from the area of the trial.
Smith wasnt a prophet but he was an interesting character fo sure. I wonder how much treause he ever actally located as a peoffessional treasure hunter . Are there any records to this affect?
I dont know of any actual record of him finding treasure. The only he ever did with that stone was supposedly write the book of Mormon. Pretty suspect
There is no point to be made by Hurlbut not mentioning the trial since it was not widely known, nor did he interview anyone in South Bainbridge. The records are there for historians to use regardless of what anti-Mormons may or may not have thought about the trial. It’s simply not relevant. The 1826 trial was relevant to the 1830 trials since some of the same witnesses testified and, as Noble stated, JS pled statute of limitations.
Straight up clown show..... I remember hearing of JS trying to walk on water in from of residents of South Bainbridge, only to fall off in the water from a board being removed by some onlookers watching his scheme to persuade.... I grew up across the street from the house where JS married Emma Hale. I was constantly watching tour busses and visitors paying homage to their false founder....what a shame...
This chapter from Joseph Smith's early life is relevant to his later claims that he had the ability to translate ancient records using the same peep stone method and whether the golden plates existed in reality, or simply as a figment of human imagination.
Past behaviour predicts future behaviour... Once a disorderly person, always a disorderly person until he discharged a gun in a jail.... and was rebuffed for it.
I am alarmed by how much a TBM will embarrass themselves trying to defend all of this.
This is interesting but I think largely moot because DNA science has proven the Book of Mormon false and inaccurate. Therefore Mormonism is itself moot. All LDS are spiritual refugees from the Book of Mormon, eventually.
While I'm pretty sure JS was a fraud. DNA is not that easily dismissed with the discovery of Haplogroup X in the mound builders DNA.
But during JS's era, there were more than a few theories abounding that the mound builders were from European or Israeli descent. Not a novel concept on JSs part.
Truth is probably that there were people's circumnavigating the globe much, much farther back than our paid for propagandized history tells us.
Much has been covered up, falsified, and or fabricated to tell us a story of history that a certain very small group of people wish us to believe.
Keep an open mind is all I'm saying.
the only one who believes what you are saying is BYU
Yeah but the true origins of mormonism is still interesting even if we already know it's not true.
There is so much satanic BS here! The statement about DNA evidence is just another one of these evil satanic lies! If you really want to know the damn truth instead of just helping Satan and this evil apostates to destroy the church, then just look at DNA evidence for Book of Mormon Geography by Rod Mildrum! I dare apostate! Then you will see how wrong and stupid you are!!!
The Savior said,.."Blessed are ye when men shall revile you,...and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake; rejoice and be exceeding glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so persecuted they the Prophets which were before you." ..., we are the men; for we know that the world not only hate us, but they speak all manner of evil of us falsely, for no other reason than that we have been endeavoring to teach the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ - Josep Smith
Smith plagiarized that from the Gospels - doesn't make him any better than a mimic!
To historians, it doesn’t matter if JS was found guilty or not. What matters is the testimony given at the trial about JS’s activities as a treasure seer. The verdict of any court can’t decide whether or not he was a prophet. So I have no motivation to make JS guilty and don’t understand the need of apologists to keep JS’s legal record pure.
In my opinion, one should be highly skeptical of anything Joseph Sr. and Lucy said if their claims were in their own self interest. For example, I don't believe that Joseph Sr. was sincere when he allegedly testified at the 1826 trial that both he and Joseph were mortified that Joseph's "gift" should be used in search of filthy lucre. Joseph Sr. was himself a treasure digger and used Joseph to help him find treasures. Joseph Sr. was hardly the distinguished gentleman that Mormons suppose him to have been, but was a dirt poor, ragged man with a serious drinking problem. I believe Joseph Sr. and Jr. were simply lying to try to get Joseph off the hook. As another example, Lucy claimed that on the night Moroni first appeared to Joseph Jr. the family spent the evening discussing religion, but Martin Harris claimed that Joseph Jr. had led a treasure digging excursion that evening.
"Joseph Sr. was himself a treasure digger "
Credible, verified source, please. Or is this just a myth.
Scott, please note that I have argued that it was begun as a preliminary hearing with Neely concluding that there was enough evidence to proceed with a three-justice Court of Special Sessions. Further, I argue that Neely changed his mind and passed judgment himself, but that a plea bargain prevented the judgment from being made official. This explains why the record reads like a pre-trial hearing but has a judgment at the end.
Scott may be Porter Rockwell's Grand-baby? Facts are not part of the equation with him...
What is suspect about the documents? Be specific.
Wesley Walters, really? Walters was known to be extremely anti-LDS and hated the saints. He would do anything he could to destroy the church and defame the prophet Joseph Smith. His findings or writings are worthless.
More helpful to attack the arguments and his documentation than the man. Accusations of bias easily go both ways.
Your words can be applied just as easily to anyone presenting against Hitler.
My statement is true; Walters hated the saints and worked tirelessly to defame Joseph Smith, a man he never knew. I'm not attacking Walters, just his bigotry towards the saints of God and God's prophet.
D.L. Russell I've read some of Walters works. I was not impressed.
@@terrytippets7023 If you put your magic underwear on backwards - can you still ward off evil spirits?
Great research, it appears to be fair and balanced, Thank you Dan! Reading the comments below it appears that most are not understanding the bigger picture context of the issue of the trial in the first place. The minimizing of the involvement and overhauling of a public persona. It appears that is what was/is necessary to make the rest of the story acceptable. It takes courage to face issues that challenge your personal beliefs, many seem so threatened by anything that goes against the official story. The truth always survives the lies, it's important for anyone searching for accuracy and truth to keep pressing forward.
Onward and upward!
It was not a Trial it was a Hearing. Dan says it was, where is the fairness in that statement?
Scott M Calling it a "Hearing" sounds boring (even though it was just a hearing). So, yahoo's like Dan play loose with the truth. If a lie will make the church look bad, they use one.
Terry Tippets Dan uses a lot of supposition and also 3rd and 4th hand information.
-- I have visited many different "Biblical " churchs and have never found anyone with a closer relationship with our Savior than good Mormons. Regardless of criticisms of J Smith , isn't it interesting that a "false prophet" could start a Church that has better fruit than any other I visited? Consider this article I wrote. -----
Why not the Best? -----
When I was just a boy, I was quite serious minded and as I would look up into the night sky, I would wonder, “What is God like?” and “Who am I to him?” Well, I quickly discovered that there was no agreement on questions about God among any of the religions. Thus began a lifelong quest to find the answers. I have spent over thirty years talking to people of other faiths and visiting their services. It has been a wonderful experience and I think it has helped me to get a glimpse of why God allows so many religions. First of all, I have discovered that God answers the prayers of all people who call on Him. I have heard compelling testimonies of God’s mercy and miracles in all faiths, and even those without a church. It seems irrefutable that He does not require you to pronounce His Name correctly. Father, Jesus, God, Allah, Jehovah, Lord, etc. all seem to be understood by Him. He seems to know the intent of our prayers and our heart. We can communicate with Him even with incorrect beliefs. He loves all men (and women) and we are truly all brothers and sisters. Unfortunately when God answers the prayers of people in the different faiths, they misunderstand that answer as being “proof” of the correctness of their particular faith. They think God has put His stamp of approval on their religion and that they are authorized to persecute and sometimes kill people of other religions in defense of their “God”.None the less, There is an overwhelming amount of good that all religions accomplish. Looking at the big picture closer I discovered that all religions are trying to get their membership to do three things, 1. They want you to have a personal love and relationship with God. 2. They want you to actually live-----what boils down to be the “Ten Commandments” (Christians, Muslims ,Buddhists, Jews Hindus phrase it differently but it all comes down to the Ten Commandments) 3. They want you to treat our body as if it is the temple of God. This is what the leaders of all the different faiths would like their members to do. I discovered that when people actually do these three things, they all have the same results---Heaven on Earth. Or to be more realistic, they have greater happiness than through any other path. The good days are better and the tragedies are easier to survive. There are people in every faith that achieve these three things, and get “Heaven on Earth” So does that mean it doesn’t matter what religion you have? No, there is a difference. I’m a practical guy, and the practical measurable difference in the different religions is the percentage of members in a religion that achieve those three things. Some faiths may only have less than 10% of their members that do those three things. Other religions may have 20%, and others 30% . Results matter! In my lifetime of personal observations, I have not found any faith that comes close to success the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) has in getting it’s members to live those three things. It is the Best. I have six children who are happily married in the temple. I have twenty grandchildren who go to church with both parents every Sunday. I love my kids and grand kids more than life itself. I would not lead them anywhere, but where they will receive the greatest joy. Remember--- Results matter.----- Good enough is not good enough.------ Why not the Best?-------Let me use an example, Let us imagine that you have a son who you are sending to law school. You need to choose a school. School “A” has a record that 10% of it’s graduating students are able to pass the bar. School “B” has a record that 90% of its graduating students pass the bar exam. Now, I think my son is smart enough that he could be part of the 10% in school “A”, but as a loving father, I want him to have every advantage, so I want him to go to school “B” where 90% pass. It’s the best. and I want my loved ones to have every opportunity for happiness! As I said: - Good enough is not good enough for my family--. My wife and I are both converts to the Church, We have done what the Church teaches for the last 35years. It has delivered Heaven on Earth and that tremendous Joy that comes from a very personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Everyone we know who has done likewise, has had the same results. The Church instills a increased testimony of Jesus Christ that helps its members do “those three things” that brings heaven here and hereafter. Why not the Best?
I have observed most ex Mormons are bitter and unchurched. Not what I want for my family. I'm sure some ex Mormons are happy, but, it seems to be a very small percentage. So,Please write something like this that is positive that highlights the good things about your path that I am missing. Scott Marshall
+Scott Marshall I am with you, my son told me the other day he noticed something that all th epeople he knows that left the lDS Faith never sem to improve their position. I thought for amoment and agreed. I found also that most Mormon bias haters and critics don't keep the Sabbath Day Holy and profess no Religion.
@@scottwins2 You are both starry-eyed idiots!
Dan does his research well, I have no doubt. But he's such a poor reader that it's painful to listen to him for more than a few minutes, and his monotonous and hesitant speech hinders comprehension.
I agree. However, there are speed settings on the TH-cam viewer that make it tolerable. Suggest 1.25 or 1.5.
Stephen Lowther I agree. I will try the setting wheel and give it a try.
It is truly difficult. He could fix it by just reading the whole line in one reading
One can read public writings, extemporaneous sermons, and private journals. One can reflect on the hundreds or thousands of miles of travel on missionary journeys and Church business. If the writings of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Heber C. Kimball, George Q. Cannon and many others cannot persuade someone that they were honest men (even if mistaken) then one should sincerely question whether such a person is capable of looking charitably upon any Mormon.
Neely should have given the fraud a stiff prison term... feeling sorry and letting the thug go was a mistake we are all suffering from.
Now. It seems that the scryer profession wasn't good enough. But by the time Smith got the Mansion House in Nauvoo, I think it's safe to say that the scryer profession had successfully been turned into the Prophet profession.
From a log cabin to Mansion House. The scheme was working very well, eh?
He had to get a bigger house to hold all the broads he was banging.
I don't have a dog in this fight but I think they are some of the nicest people I have ever met, and they do have the most beautiful churches
I think you mean the temples, the LDS churches are all extremely similar in design and pretty bland inside
@@scrub3359 yeah but they got basketball courts in them!!! That's pretty sweet
Anton Lavey's Church of Satan is pretty snazzy, too!
Have you ever lived in Utah County as the only non-Mormon in your neighborhood? I ask because I remember when we decided to move our family there from a very diverse California in the early 2000's. Our friends and family told us we were nuts for considering moving there amongst the mormons. I lost count at the number of times I responded with the question, "Really, how bad can it be? They are mormons, so what?" I had met a few mormons while in nursing school, even had plenty of knocks at my door from them. They seemed rather harmless to me.
Boy was I naive! Nothing could have prepared me (or my children!) for the gang like ongoing extreme harrassment and bullying inflicted on my kids by the other kids and the outward ostracism directed towards all of us from the adults in the neighborhood. I've lived in many places in this country, from one end of the socioeconomic spectrum to the other and I've never experienced anything like it.
We were initially greeted with many warm welcomes and introductions until I outed ourselves by mowing the lawn on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Neighbors that once waved as they passed by literally turned their heads and would even walk to the other side of the street to avoid passing our house from the sidewalk. When my vocal "hello's", "how are you's" and "good to see you's" were met with faster turning away and scramblings to get inside their front door, I was hit so hard with laughter. A sense of humor sure came in handy during those 8 yrs.
@@treesab Yeah, you're not supposed to mow the lawn naked...people frown on that what ever the day of the week.
The drunken mobs could never get there stories straight. 44 times in court and not one conviction. They were the murders and them you give a free ride. Boggs would be proud of you.
The men who shot Smith in Carthage were the same city leaders who allowed the fraud and his dupes into Illinois in the first place... Smith had called out the Nauvoo Legion to rescue him and was killed trying to escape out a window. Neither a "Saint" or a "Martyr" by definition...
That includes historically. No technicality or leniency. In the case you are talking about the man he supposedly lied to defended him. After all it was him that approached Joseph for help not the other way around.
The whole Smith family was in on the con... one day you'll get sick of these hucksters, like the good people of NY, OH, MO, IL, and coming soon - Utah, Idaho, Arizona, Mexico, etc..
Joseph smith was a cult leader.
And yet, in spite of all the times Joseph Smith was arrested, he was only found guilty _once_ - and that for a small infraction that he paid an equally small fine for.
smith was a con all the way to his holly underware
He was a thoroughly interesting man, a con man, a false prophet (there's no such thing as a prophet, and never was,) and a well-read person. He synthesized a religion from diverse previous fantasies.
This doesn't mean he is guilty of anything as Stowell approached Smith... Not Smith approaching Stowell.
Judges made good money. That was $66.00 for one case if he tried like 5 a day whew...
away with Joseph Smith ..Give me Jesus
Smell the cognitive dissonance - right up until the TBMs stick their fingers in their ears and start chanting "Pay Lay Ale, la la la, I can't hear you!"
The content is good, but Vogel's narration is slow and tedious to the extreme. Suggest the user set TH-cam speed settings to 1.25 or 1.5.
Is this the trial jospeh fled from ?
Scott, I have not argued for a post-trial commitment, but for JS’s re-arrest ten miles away with the view of taking him to jail, which was averted by an off-the-record agreement. I am not judging JS based on the verdict of this trial.
Persecution has not stopped the progress of truth, but has only added fuel to the flame, it has spread with increasing rapidity. Proud of the cause which they have espoused, and conscious of our innocence, and of the truth of their system, amidst calumny and reproach, have the Elders of this Church gone forth, and planted the Gospel in almost every state in the Union. . . . It has also spread into England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales.
History of the Church, 4:540. Joseph Smith
There are flakes there, too!
What it comes down to is this and it simple. The more you complicate things I lot of people start to loose interest.
After 184 years of the LDS church's existence their should be a book of mormon artifact appearing in so called book of mormon lands and there truly isn't !
Yes, Walters removed the water-soaked documents from the basement of the Norwich Jail out of concern to preserve them. No serious researcher on either side believes the documents were tampered with. If Walters had, it would be possible to demonstrate it. Nobody has.
He could not have ruled anyway since there were no formal witnesses and if there were they would have had to sign their names. Therefore no conviction because there was no case.
"...He who addeth unto My Word unto him shall be added the plagues contained therein..." Smith was always dodging the women's husbands that he put his hands on, ever embarrassing himself by people with better sense (Kinderhook Plates, Greek Psalter, Book of Abraham, etc.), tarred and feathered in Kirtland, wanted for bank fraud in OH, always surrounded by religious nuts and fruitcakes, expulsed under the threat of extermination, fleeing - then calling for his flock to follow (unlike any other prophet/God ordained leader in the Bible), betrayed by his own witnesses and finally shot like a rat after shooting 3 men then attempting escape.
Stop embarrassing yourself! No one is going to take a bite of your turd sandwich!
And how can people see him as a profet of God after watching this
The lies of the mob always get a free pass during Josephs time. Never are they challenged, ever.
Hahahahahahahaha..... hahahahahaha.... nice!
Jason Marlow So you like the lIars that inflame the mobs to burn 200 homes and kill 22 people?
To which mobs are you referring? The former Mormons that would attack current Mormons or the faithful danite Mormons that would attack the former and nonmormons?
Jason Marlow Using the innocent a cannon fodder, I would hope would be even below you, sir. You know where the blood lies yet the lies of the Lilburn Boggs and his Extermination Order 44 fan club still exist. Sad really
Jason Marlow The Missouri mobs, Gov. Boggs and his murdering ilk
GOD Has never Called Prophets in His time because they were perfect. He called them because they were Humble and willing to be taught of the Lord. Even in the Bible, i read of Prophets accepted of the Lord but they had a lot of weaknesses. All this criticism of JOSEPH SMITH is full of crap.
They were not into the occult.
If God doesn't call prophets because they are perfect, why are you concerned about this criticism? It seems like even if Joseph Smith was a fraudulent man, it wouldn't change your opinion of him as a prohpet
The original transscripts were taken for there historial place without documentation thusly they can nott be relied upon even though there is no trial shown whatsoever.
Smith was actually killed while trying to escape martyrdom. Not very Jesus-like...
Need to renaim your piece here Dan there was no verdict
Was not a Trial there needed to be witness signatures and there were none. That was the Law
Why doesn't any other Christian denomination/sect recognize the Book of Moron? Because they all know it is a ridiculous fraud!
"since a non-conviction does not mean not guilty"
It sure does. Well here in America it does. Innocent until proven guilty.
Smith admitted guilt when he said he could really find treasures underground with the stone. No treasure was ever found. Smith made many men into fools - you included!
Gpd should be ashamed of himself for the waste he had on smiths life
Wadye waste on LIES
Dan , if you were ethical you would take down the Heading, There was no Verdict, its misleading and you know it.
Joseph Smith, spent no time in jail nor paid any fine, what does that tell. No guilt
Smith certainly found his way into the Carthage jail...
This was a Hearinbg not a Trial, there were no witness signatures. If Dan wre honest he would Rename the Heading but he won't
...Doing a poor job defending your monkey gods, Scott.
Hell may pour forth its rage like the burning lava of Mount Vesuvius . . . and yet shall "Mormonism" stand. . . . God is the author of it. He is our shield. . . . It was by Him we received the Book of Mormon; and it is by Him that we remain unto this day; and by Him we shall remain, if it shall be for our glory; and in His Almighty name we are determined to endure tribulation as good soldiers unto the end. Joseph Smith
More proof look up fort david or Lehi Tomb
@@rickyodom8189 If there were any evidence, relic or artifact proving BoM true these hucksters running your cult would have made it well known....
Wesley P. Walters has demonstrated that this is not a trial. The Constable’s charges of “19 cents attached to the mittimus marks it as the pre-trial ‘commitment for want of bail’ …and not the post-trial ‘warrant of commitment, on conviction, twenty-five cents
LDS Church leader Dallin H. Oaks has cautioned, “We should judge the actions of our predecessors on the basis of the laws and commandments and circumstances of their day, not ours.
Wesley P. Walters has demonstrated that this is not a trial. The Constable’s charges of “19 cents attached to the mittimus marks it as the pre-trial ‘commitment for want of bail’ …and not the post-trial ‘warrant of commitment, on conviction, twenty-five cents
Once upon a time the glass looking charge was persecution and a devious plot to destroy Josephs character. ( oops ) Pants on fire, egg on face.
If I had a brick in my hand that doesn't mean it was once library. Same with historians, depends on the perception.
This was not trial and all your ranting will never make it so. Nor was there a verdict of guilty recorded by the courts of the matter .
Maybe you should stay in that bogus church - you only proved yourself a fool on the 'net.
Great information, but I had to listen to this at 1.25. You speak way too slow. Great content however.
Thanks for your comment. My new videos are faster.
YOUR LIAR JOSEPH ONLY HAS ONE WIFE EMMA. HINCKLEY TALKED ABOUT THIS. SO IF I BASE EVERYTHING ON HINCKLEY IF HE IS LiyING LEAVE LDS IF HE IS CORRECT STAY IN LDS.
Joseph Smith's 1826 Trial (Pt 1) - "The Verdict" (heh-heh ... the plot thickens. (Where's Perry Mason when you need him?)
If Gods are individuals who have passed through mortality and have progressed to Godhood, how has one person of the Trinity (the Holy Spirit) attained Godhood without getting a body?
j.s was a poor glass looker, he's in his 20's without a dime to his name, however? j.s has tried everything until he claimed that he saw a vision of angels and a god? Anyways? records are not for the fainted hearts hhhhhhhaaaa
Oh yeah, because the truth is all over youtube right?
The lawyers of the time would have had a copy of Blackstone's Commentary on the English Law, which was published 50 years earlier. Here is Blackstone's entry on mittimus:
"UPON the whole, if the offense be not bailable, or the party cannot find bail, he is to be committed to the county jail by the mittimus of the justice, or warrant under his hand and seal, containing the cause of his commitment; there to abide till delivered by due course of law. But this imprisonment, as has been said, is only for safe custody, and not for punishment: therefore, in this dubious interval between the commitment and trial, a prisoner ought to be used with the utmost humanity; and neither be loaded with needless fetters, or subjected to other hardships than such as are absolutely requisite for the purpose of confinement only: though what are so requisite, must too often be left to the discretion of the jailers; who are frequently a merciless race of men, and, by being conversant in scenes of misery, steeled against any tender sensation. Yet the law will not justify them in fettering a prisoner, unless where he is unruly, or has attempted an escape: this being the humane language of our ancient lawgivers, “custodes poenam sibi commissorum non augeant, nec eos torqueant; sed omni saevitia remota, pietateque adhibita, judicia debite exequantur.”
The facts you find r great but the conclusions you come up with our bias
You are not being totally honest
Smith false propg
Irs a shame u put in so me work for lies. What a shame god lied about it all
hahaha fake charges... tell us where in black's legal dictionary were such charges are described.
If you would watch, you will se that glass looking was against the law at the time.
@@danvogel6802 hahahaha it was a real problem? or did the court recorder just make it up? show us another case any person other than against Joseph Smith.. it was a bogus charge.
@@michaelparks5669 If you watch the video, you will see that it was part of the statute against disorderly persons. It was seldom enforced, usually when some complained. Ransford Rogers was convicted and imprisoned briefly for similar activity. Look him up, if you're interested.
@@danvogel6802Are you serious? hahaha "disorderly persons" is when a cop has nothing better to charge someone with. It is a minor charge at best. How many times was Jesus accused of such a charge? Many times. Jesus simply walked away. If convicted most often there is no jail time. it is expunged in most states in a year at the most.. You make it sound like Joseph Smith was a felon . this is a nothing burger.
@@michaelparks5669 I'm glad you are relieved that it was a minor infraction of a law that no longer exists, but that is not what you asked. The most important thing to learn from the 1826 court proceedings is the testimony given by JS and Josiah Stowell about JS's method of operation.
JOSEPH SMITH WAS GOOFYER VANNA WOODEN WATCH
@Richard Van Riper hahaha the comments would be reduced by at least 50% if that were a rule lol
7.2.23. Thank you !!!
Witch hunt witch Trail
Not a Tria,l it was a Hearing
HAHAHAHA WAS JOSEPH SMITH FOUND GUILTY? NOPE
HOW MANY TIMES WAS JESUS ACCUSED OF SUCH THINGS?
Comparing Jesus, God , to Joseph Smith is blaspheme, HERETIC. LDS are frauds and heretics.
THE PROPHETS WERE KILLED AS WAS JOSEPH SMITH.
Michael Parks Parley Pratt stole another man's wife. Smith was shot while doing an armed escape.
@@michaelparks5669 Smith was killed while escaping martyrdom...
Another factor about the 1826 Hearing is that the early critics essentially ignored it.
They didn’t bring it up in another trial in the same area in 1830.
It was not mentioned in any of the affidavits collected by Hurlbut in 1833.
Although the trial was briefly mentioned in 1831, it was not mentioned again in a published record for 46 years
Tell us how the Fancher party was "itchin' for it" again, Scott!