Im glad you remembered to point out the crew wasnt at fault. Most people seem to forget that or even look into things before attacking. Good on you man.
No way dude, it was Trump's fault! I know there's absolutely NO link whatsoever between the president and this particular train, but since when do "links", or evidence matter these days? As long as something bad happens somewhere, the media will blame Trump! Of course it be the Russians! Just ask Rachel Maddow, or "Morning Joe" Scarborough, or anyone else at CNN, MSNBC, etc.
@@patrickmcleod111 yes! Because of his rhetoric the train supremacists just got too bold and attacked those innocent cars whose only fault was being after the 151st car!
@@elteescat Exactly! Hateful rhetoric(words) was the catalyst, as it always is. Words are SO dangerous! Its why we desperately need to criminalize words and speech, to prevent train derailment, AND Naziism! Of course it's crucial that ONLY people from just ONE side of the political spectrum should have THEIR speech criminalized! That's because we know that people from the left NEVER say hateful or negative things! Sure, they may verbally call for police officers to be arbitrarily assaulted and murdered, but that's nothing compared with those evil conservatives, moderates(and even traditional liberals) who openly discuss corruption and bad policies of democrats! We can't have that. If someone were to find out that a Democrat was legitimately involved in corruption, that person may get "angry", and anger "may" lead to violence! We can't take the risk..... The 1st amendment must fall, in the name of virtuousness!
It was a retarded feminist that thinks trains are phallic and a symbol of the patriarchy. She believes all freight should be moved by a pontoon hulled ship with the opening between the two pontoons clearly visible from far away. Those are the only people stupid enough to vote a video this good down.
Yeah interesting video but the dude sucks at narrating - thinks he’s on an NPR podcast or something. Or some public access railroad show with stock footage
Very cool and thanks for the explanation. I have always marveled that every car has to be strong enough to tow the entire train behind it. (I'm a beginning railfan.)
That's something that I've never really thought about till now (even though it's common sense), and I feel like that's something I'm going to remember for a very long time.
I hope this young TH-cam channel owner/narrator becomes an engineer, or whatever your dream is within the industry. You seem very passionate about this. Good luck buddy.
Fantastic catch, great camera work and narration! One of the most interesting videos I've seen in a while, I was expecting to see a busted knuckle, but had a laugh seeing the whole box hanging on for the ride..LOL . The Dash8 earned her money that day! Top stuff, cheers Gregg.
Good video work! I responded to many pull a parts in my days.cushioning units ripped out,sills cracked in half ,you name it . Always interesting . I learned more than a few tricks to get things expedited and moving again.Sadly nowadays,rail car periodic maintenance is a long forgotten thing. The companies react when equipment fails rather than being pro active with maintenance. There are so so many accidents just waiting to happen it would make your head spin! The new normal I guess! 42 years in heavy repair shops,wreck truck work,inspections ,kind of saw it all and the lack of maintenance and lack of knowledge is just phenomenal! The railroads run in spite of their leadership ,not because of it!
One correction; the knuckle pin bears no draft load, that's the knuckle's job. In fact once a knuckle is locked, the knuckle pin can be removed without any effect on draft forces.
I know I've told you this before but your style of narration is very very good. Enjoyable to listen to but also very educational as well. Keep up the great work.
good job on this video this sounds like a young person and he has a very good understanding of what is going on I was a engineer on csx cv sub for 14 years and this is a impressive young person keep up the good work I always told my cubs I would rather have common sense than book smarts any day
You sir are a GREAT narrator, video artist, and extremely knowledgeable railroad expert! Thanks for putting this informative RR video together for us Rail Fans. 😀👍🚂
Great camera work and documentation of this event. The DC traction motors in that trailing C40-8W must have been screaming for mercy by the time they reached the top of the hill, but nice to see it hung in there all the way to the top.
@@send2gl the first two looked like AC4400s. They have AC motors, which do fine at any speed. The last unit was a C40-8W(?) which has DC motors. DC motors can only run at low speeds for a limited time before damage occurs.
Hmm learned a new term today. "Coupler box". Interesting terminology since there is no such animal. The box like structure which runs down the center of a rail car is the center sill. At the ends of the car there are sets of draft lugs which keep the draft gear in its proper place and transfer the forces of the draft gear to the center sill. The weight of the draft gear is carried by a strap which is riveted (like the draft lugs) to the center sill. In this incident the center sill suffered a catastrophic failure which probably could have been prevented with proper inspections. Another point. Once the trainline breaks and pressure drops, the ENTIRE train goes into emergency ( I believe that this would include the loco's). You cannot throw the tail end into emergency unless you close the valve to maintain pressure ahead of the break. To do so would be a deliberate act of sabotage. E Frawley Carman CN GO (retired)
Hi Ed - thanks for your explanation - indeed I termed it "coupler box" due to more railfan familiarity with that term from model railroading, and I did not want to get into the nitty gritty details of sills, draft gear, etc. I'm glad folks like you step in and fill in those blanks for the inquiring. I am no carman, just a lowly civil engineer in training! haha
Any change in brake pipe pressure, whether by deliberate brake application or a break in the pipe, will take some time to propagate along the length of the train. In a train this long, a pressure loss near the rear of the train will have the rear in full emergency braking well before the loco's brakes apply.
And to put the braking in still further perspective, there's an EOT on the last car with an RF link to the lead loco. When the BP ruptures, the pressure drop propagates in both directions, to either end of the train. As the pressure drop reaches a certain level at each car, the car's triple valve makes an emergency application and vents the BP to accelerate the drop. When the drop reaches the EOT, the EOT will send an RF signal to the HOT indicating BP pressure loss. So: in this case, where BP ruptured between cars 150 & 197, it's likely the loco blew an emergency in response to the EOT report. If the rupture happened at, say, car 50, the loco would've detected the BP drop first.
Rear end applications on 8800' trains takes up to 15 to 20 seconds to reach the head end. (45 years as a Conductor on SP/UP). 9 years building out intermodal/double stack trains at ICTF and City of Industry, CA...
Great video, you can really see those locos putting in some heavy work on that gradient. In the UK we refer to the black exhaust as 'Clag'. Class 47s in particular were known for it.
You may already be aware of this but what happened on that CSX train wasn't an uncommon occurance during steam days before the advent of m.u. or multiple-unit connections that are found on diesel locomotives where in an engineer can control multiple units. In steam days, when tackling a grade with more than one locomotive, each one had its own engineer who had to coordinate the speed of his engine with that of his counterpart.
And I though your knuckle breaking video was the worst that could happen to a train crew, guess the train gremlins got a little destructive with one of the cars. XD
Talk about chasing a train. I bet you didn't have to worry about breaking any speed limits as long as Q335 was running Restricted Speed for the duration. Great video and narration!
Conductor: I think I might go fishing when I get off, or climb in the stand. We should tie up at 1600 Train: So much for your early quit. Dispatcher: I got a 1800 relief crew coming with the van. Lol soo speaking from experience
Those things are incredibly impressive. The crazy amount of weight they are able to move is a testament to modern train engineering. That can be one dangerous job.
Wow. Great video! Nice photography, and instead of 15 minutes of pictures you give lots of details information about what may have happened and what was done about it. Not boring in the least. Thank you.
I was surprised to see that MMA boxcar at the 1:22 mark. That is from the now defunct Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railroad. After the Lac Megantic disaster in 2013, MMA went bankrupt and was purchased by Fortress Investment Group to form the Central Maine and Quebec Railway. It's quite rare to see any rail equipment from Maine out this far west. Normally railroads that operate in the northeast keep their cars within the region.
naw they don't care too much... stuff like this is par for the course when you work a pool turn... as long as the PAY CLOCK is ticking them guys are okay
@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries As a professional in the filmmaking industry, I'll second GeForce's Father. Your narration kept the whole thing flowing and made it more of a documentary that wasn't unnecessarily long and informative. I only have a passing interest in trains and you also helped to educate. Very good job indeed.
I can't believe I didn't find or hear about this until now I've lived in Grand Rapids for the past 18 years. I just found your channel and instantly subscribed!
If CSX would run their ridiculously long trains with DPUs more often, then they wouldn't have this problem! I've seen a hell of a lot more CSWrecks trains this happened to than any other railroad!
I will take a truss bridge for looks over the current boring concrete designs. The most boring of which are the over used cable-stayed designs currently in vogue, (see the Tappan Zee replacement).
Great Video. This reminds me of the TONS of HO Scale trains I have boxed up in my home that I haven't ran in years. Maybe its time to break them out into the light for a little exercise. Also, at 03:59 you stated that the coil car was scrapped on site. Was it carrying a load? If so, was the load damaged in any way?
1 more thing the person who last inspected this car did not do it right , or the defect would have been seen. The box did not just fail, it had to have stress cracks that should have been seen. By the way the coupler release lever is called a cut lever.A very nice video too by the way, you don't often get to witness something like this happen.
Great video which was not only interesting but fun to watch and also easy to follow. The great narration was also well done - easy to listen to, fun to follow and interesting. Thanks for posting
This is a guess but 403 might have been there for dynamic braking effort. Theoretically, you wouldn't need the prime mover lit to harvest electricity from the motors to divert to the resistors. I have no idea if locomotives are designed to do that.
@@rickboivin7732 The C40-8W is capable of MU Operation, thus a Prime Mover can be idling or shut off during operation because power from other engines within the consist can be harvested by the traction motors of the middle or trailing unit, sometimes lead, but it's not as common as middle or trailing, about the braking effort part, you're right, it also helps into having a greater brake efficiency, thus, shriking breaking distances dramastically, a 197 car consist with 2 engines would take approximately 2 miles to stop, with 3 engines but one with an idle or shut off prime mover, you can reduce that to 1.6 miles.
While at the Norfolk Southern Pomona Yard, me and a couple friends caught a NB Norfolk Southern 12R Manifest breaking a train knuckle right in front of us, later that day, we heard that the Norfolk Southern 12R broke 3 more knuckles and ripped one whole coupler right out of another train car on a single main line that brought both NB and SB trains to a halt, that night, we saw 2 Norfolk Southern SD40-2's bring the remaining train cars of the Norfolk Southern 12R back to the yard that we were at That was an experience while railfanning
@@dethronekingmma1246 He was making a model railroad reference joke, kadee makes model railroad couplers. As for the rust, he's right, that's really the only thing that can explain how the whole assembly, box and all came off the railcar like that, as that is not supposed to be a fail point, the pins are what are supposed to fail before anything else. Also, yes, model railroaders are more knowledgeable about railroads and how they work than most non-railroad workers as we usually strive for a more realistic model railroad and research into things to make the models as close to the real thing as possible.
When a car detaches from the rest of the train like one did in this case, how does the crew in the front of the train know? I imagine that possibly the sudden loss in brake pipe pressure would stop the entire train but is there more to it than just that? What about the last trailing car? Does that car have a plug installed on the brake pipe to seal it or is there more to it?
The loss of brake pipe pressure sets of the emergency brakes throughout the entire train. The end-of-train device is capable of "dumping" the train from the rear by venting directly to the atmosphere. Crews have a switch in the cab they can hit to trigger it. It's just an electrically-controlled valve, which can be closed again when they need to. Some crews will use it to prevent the slack from rolling out in certain situations
Quarter mile from the crossing, so no, unfortunately. There is a photo out there of the coil car still sitting in Lansing from a few months ago, but I can't link in comments.
Looks like the center sill (frame) just decided to give up the ghost. May be metal fatigue or those ever present "gremlins" Just another day of railroading.
look a little closer, there are football patches on the center sill. It's been cut out and re-welded in place at some time in the past. (Retired carman, I've cut more than a few cars down, shortened the center sill and made a different type car from it on programs @ Raceland Car Shops. Never worked a Gon program in that area, but I'd say it was poor welding from someone.
Looks like it could be metal fatigue. And I understand then if they scrapped that car, probably the safest way to handle that problem. And it's things that happens, nothing the crew could have done about it. Probably hard to spot at maintenance too unless you knew what you were looking for.
ehsnils It's not that hard, GP-38s are prone to this and we have a task at inspection time to inspect the coupler pockets for cracks. If they're cracked, it's usually in the gussets in the corners. We arc gouge the cracks out and weld it all back up, gooder than new!
@@ralfie8801 you see this sort of thing in fifth wheel plates in tank trailers , cracks corosion, wear. Rain water , cemical spilled. Sometimes they are in very poor condition by the time for inspection.
Timothy Terrell Railroad equipment is a bit different. They have periodic Federal inspections mandated by the FRA. I don't know what the time period is on rail cars, but on locomotives it's quarterly, with some inspections of safety related equipment being daily.
Nah, that's not much to fix, they'll roll it into a GBW, Watco, or one of the dozens of other railcar rebuilders around the country and it'll roll back out looking like new.
This isn't the only reason. Train crews have limited work hours for safety reasons. If a crew hits their hour limit before a fresh crew can relieve them, they have to stop the train RIGHT THEN AND THERE... even if it's on a crossing.
Or not...that car is still sitting in Lansing, where it was setoff later that night...wonder if the broken off stuff is still laying in the right of way there in Whitneyville?
It actually _was_ running, it was just under less strain due to its position, so it wasn't smoking and chugging as much. The train was going slowly because of regulations - the damage forced them to operate at restricted speed in case of strained couplers elsewhere in the train.
@@cdavid8139 GE just got rid of their locomotive business because they weren't making money anymore, and just about every railroad now is getting rid of their Dash 8s which aren't even that old
@@floridianrailauto9032 No. Get your facts straight. GE did not 'just get rid' of their locomotive business because they weren't making money'. GE sold their ENTIRE transportation division because they are desperate and WABTEC was willing to pay a shitload for that business. If you followed the stock market at all you would know this and could have avoided writing something so ignorant. Before you babble, understand your topic
At the 4:06 mark your incorrect. They are at restricted speed because they were delayed in a block. GCOR Rule 6.27 says, When required to move at restricted speed, movement must be made at a speed that allows stopping within half the range of vision short of: Trains, Engine, Railroad cars,Men or equipment fouling the track, Stop signal, Derail or switch lined improperly. When a train or engine is required to move at restricted speed, the crew must keep a lookout for broken rail and not exceed 20 MPH. GCOR Rule 9.9 talks about being delayed in a block.If a train has entered a block on a proceed indication that does not require restricted speed, and the train stops or its speed is reduced below 10 MPH, the train must proceed at restricted speed. The train must maintain this speed until the next signal is visible, that signal displays a proceed indication, and the track to that signal is clear.
Sort of. In this case they were in fact under the restricted speed due to their being in emergency. I'm not totally familiar with the rules, but in this case, as I recall, DIB would not have been in effect due to receiving direct dispatcher order/permission to proceed West when it was time. I'm fairly certain that overrides DIB, which is more intended for passenger trains stopping and locals switching, protecting themselves against other trains fouling former authority given by signals due to the time elapsed. Since the dispatcher could affirm that they allowed no conflicting movements, I don't therefore think they needed DIB. In either case, they both saw their next signal and cleared the emergency zone at the same time anyways. Side note, CSX doesn't use GCOR, they use their own rulebook.
There is no rule to go restricted speed after going into emergency. You are only governed under rule 9.9. With Restricted Speed you may resume speed after the leading wheels pass the point the restricted speed is no longer required. If there is a worry about broken rail they would proceed with a speed restriction. the difference between restricted speed and a speed restriction is that you can proceed at normal speed when the leading wheels pass the point that restricted speed is no longer required, A speed restriction the entire train must pass the restriction. Just to let you know, I work for the railroad.
Matthew Daniel Yes Mr. Daniel, but CSX doesn't use GCOR nor NORAC rules. They have their own rule book which doesn't follow either format. CSX doesn't dictate restricted speed after DIB unless the crew has been changed. CSX does, however, require restricted speed following an emergency brake application for the length of the train. This is to hedge against possible track damage caused by harsh train forces as the result of the emergency braking and unknown slack effects. CSX also requires the train to be prepared to stop at the next signal until it is determined that the signal is favorable to proceed. There are different requirements for trains operating in ABS territory vs. TCS.
When the air pipe is disconnected the entire train goes into emergency, not just the part toward the rear of the train from the disconnection. Broken knuckles and locking pins were common in the steam era as rod steam locomotives have poor starting Tractive Effort. The engineers (American slang for “locomotive driver”) would back the locomotive, bunching the cars together. Then release the brakes and start off when the locomotive is pulling only the first car, then the second when tender-1, then 1-2, 2-3, etc., cars’ slack is taken up: bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam all the way to the caboose. T.E. increases greatly as the locomotive reaches as little as ½ mph, and will approach maximum at 2-5 mph. Diesel-electric and electric locomotives don’t need to do this as their T.E. is maximum at starting, 0 mph/kmh. An electric drive locomotive rated 50,000# T.E. can pull with 50,000# at starting. Modern electric drive locomotives have traction (“slip”) control to prevent wheel slippage, coupler breakage and car load damage and shifting. The engineer will “creep” (drive the locomotive slowly) as coupling slack is taken out to avoid jerking the cars. When all slack is gone the locomotive can be accelerated at full traction-controlled maximum T.E., considering if the train is on a curve, how sharp the curve, superelevation (“banking” or lateral tilt of the track). Cars, especially unloaded flat cars, can be derailed or even turned over if the train is on a curve. There’s a lot more to driving a train than appears at first look.
Obviously the whole train does go into emergency, but the key thing to realize is that it takes time for all the air to run out of the lines so it takes a minute to propagate. In this case they believe a low hanging hose hit a crossing and initiated an emergency application towards the rear end of the train, which took time to propagate forward through all 10,000+ feet of train. Because they were moving downhill the coupler slack was bunched - so the rear end suddenly and quickly slowing down jerked the slack out and found a weak link in an old car. Rather than finding a knuckle, it happened to be this whole coupler draft gear.
several years ago I was listening to rail ops on the radio. radio tx from the loco "im in emergency" dispatch tx "any idea what happened" loco tx "i think it broke" dispatch tx "smart Alec"
Perfectly allowable by GCOR rules. Though 8 d9nt know about CSX specific rules. UP rules say that giving off moving equipment is not allowed, unless an emergency. Glove rules is to wear them to protect against injury, but not required.
In general, when a coupler is broken or torn apart causing a separation of cars, is there a device or mechanism that stops the uncontrolled part of cars from rolling or running away?
Since the train's air take hose is parted when this sort of thing happens, it all goes into emergency braking, stopping everything. In this case, the crew then set numerous hand brakes on the cars they could no longer couple to, become departing with what they could still pull.
jerry arnold it was beyond repair you cant fix that damage by welding and they probily harvested parts wheels/couplers/air lines/top of the car/and wheel sets leaving not much left and they cant fix that without tearing the car apart and to fix it it costs more to fix than buy a new one and you cant weld it good enough
as a conductor myself, I must say myself and most my peers absolutely hate being watched and taped by foamers. I mean how would you like being being put on youtube while working?
You should be flattered that others envy your job and want to film it. You could always get a job at Home Depot loading lumber. I doubt you would get filmed there then you'd be happy.
That's odd. So many people would LOVE to have a job that fascinates others and that a hobby is built around. I've railroaded my entire career and find it enjoyable that someone finds the amazing work we do interesting. (What I hate are those who second guess us). But if I can I go out of my way to be friendly.
Im glad you remembered to point out the crew wasnt at fault. Most people seem to forget that or even look into things before attacking. Good on you man.
No way dude, it was Trump's fault! I know there's absolutely NO link whatsoever between the president and this particular train, but since when do "links", or evidence matter these days? As long as something bad happens somewhere, the media will blame Trump! Of course it be the Russians! Just ask Rachel Maddow, or "Morning Joe" Scarborough, or anyone else at CNN, MSNBC, etc.
@@patrickmcleod111 yes! Because of his rhetoric the train supremacists just got too bold and attacked those innocent cars whose only fault was being after the 151st car!
@@elteescat Exactly! Hateful rhetoric(words) was the catalyst, as it always is. Words are SO dangerous! Its why we desperately need to criminalize words and speech, to prevent train derailment, AND Naziism! Of course it's crucial that ONLY people from just ONE side of the political spectrum should have THEIR speech criminalized! That's because we know that people from the left NEVER say hateful or negative things!
Sure, they may verbally call for police officers to be arbitrarily assaulted and murdered, but that's nothing compared with those evil conservatives, moderates(and even traditional liberals) who openly discuss corruption and bad policies of democrats! We can't have that. If someone were to find out that a Democrat was legitimately involved in corruption, that person may get "angry", and anger "may" lead to violence! We can't take the risk..... The 1st amendment must fall, in the name of virtuousness!
@@patrickmcleod111 🤣🤣🤣
@@patrickmcleod111 bs
You sir get a like for not having a dumb intro, followed by 2 minutes of silence and nothing happening. Keep up the good editing.
I know what you mean there.
I'd give a hundred thumbs up for this if I could!!!
Why the hell would anybody vote this down? Interesting stuff...well filmed. Keep up the goodwork
Maybe they felt that the word "destroyed" was a bit of an exaggeration.
It was a retarded feminist that thinks trains are phallic and a symbol of the patriarchy. She believes all freight should be moved by a pontoon hulled ship with the opening between the two pontoons clearly visible from far away. Those are the only people stupid enough to vote a video this good down.
@@indridcold8433 I agree
They disliked because they problem hate csx
Yeah interesting video but the dude sucks at narrating - thinks he’s on an NPR podcast or something. Or some public access railroad show with stock footage
Very cool and thanks for the explanation. I have always marveled that every car has to be strong enough to tow the entire train behind it. (I'm a beginning railfan.)
That's something that I've never really thought about till now (even though it's common sense), and I feel like that's something I'm going to remember for a very long time.
I hope this young TH-cam channel owner/narrator becomes an engineer, or whatever your dream is within the industry. You seem very passionate about this. Good luck buddy.
One of the best displays of power management under a full load.
A 197 car freight train is only as strong as its weakest coupler box!!
Excellent, well done video and narration explanation!!
Fantastic catch, great camera work and narration! One of the most interesting videos I've seen in a while, I was expecting to see a busted knuckle, but had a laugh seeing the whole box hanging on for the ride..LOL . The Dash8 earned her money that day!
Top stuff, cheers Gregg.
Stunning video, never seen a train ripped apart before, many thanks for the lovely HD quality too.
Good video work! I responded to many pull a parts in my days.cushioning units ripped out,sills cracked in half ,you name it . Always interesting . I learned more than a few tricks to get things expedited and moving again.Sadly nowadays,rail car periodic maintenance is a long forgotten thing. The companies react when equipment fails rather than being pro active with maintenance. There are so so many accidents just waiting to happen it would make your head spin! The new normal I guess! 42 years in heavy repair shops,wreck truck work,inspections ,kind of saw it all and the lack of maintenance and lack of knowledge is just phenomenal! The railroads run in spite of their leadership ,not because of it!
One correction; the knuckle pin bears no draft load, that's the knuckle's job. In fact once a knuckle is locked, the knuckle pin can be removed without any effect on draft forces.
My father is a retired Conrail engineer of 46 yrs. I've always been a fan of trains of all kinds.. Good video.. Great job
Excellent narration. It makes the video much more interesting when you know the story behind it.
I know I've told you this before but your style of narration is very very good. Enjoyable to listen to but also very educational as well. Keep up the great work.
good job on this video this sounds like a young person and he has a very good understanding of what is going on I was a engineer on csx cv sub for 14 years and this is a impressive young person keep up the good work I always told my cubs I would rather have common sense than book smarts any day
As one with a master's degree, I say, "So true." You can't buy common sense, and you can't inject it either.
little Johny: Daddy! Hows work?
Dad, I tore my train apart.
Johny at school:
My dad's so strong, he tore a train apart with his hands!
You sir are a GREAT narrator, video artist, and extremely knowledgeable railroad expert! Thanks for putting this informative RR video together for us Rail Fans. 😀👍🚂
Classic CSX. We move tomorrow because we didn't move today.
Classic BS railfan comment. Huge railroad running profitably, safely and efficiently and that is not good enough for railfans. Pathetic
It was just a joke! Also what do you mean that's not good enough for him?
@@cdavid8139 EXACTLY
Can you take a joke?
c david since when do they do any of the things you mention
Great camera work and documentation of this event. The DC traction motors in that trailing C40-8W must have been screaming for mercy by the time they reached the top of the hill, but nice to see it hung in there all the way to the top.
I have to concur. This was awesome and thank you for your efforts!!
eSPeeScotty thinksp
Yea right 😂
Why would the trailing one be different? Not a railway man so not sure of the mechanics.
@@send2gl the first two looked like AC4400s. They have AC motors, which do fine at any speed. The last unit was a C40-8W(?) which has DC motors. DC motors can only run at low speeds for a limited time before damage occurs.
Hmm learned a new term today. "Coupler box". Interesting terminology since there is no such animal. The box like structure which runs down the center of a rail car is the center sill. At the ends of the car there are sets of draft lugs which keep the draft gear in its proper place and transfer the forces of the draft gear to the center sill. The weight of the draft gear is carried by a strap which is riveted (like the draft lugs) to the center sill. In this incident the center sill suffered a catastrophic failure which probably could have been prevented with proper inspections.
Another point. Once the trainline breaks and pressure drops, the ENTIRE train goes into emergency ( I believe that this would include the loco's). You cannot throw the tail end into emergency unless you close the valve to maintain pressure ahead of the break. To do so would be a deliberate act of sabotage.
E Frawley Carman CN GO (retired)
Hi Ed - thanks for your explanation - indeed I termed it "coupler box" due to more railfan familiarity with that term from model railroading, and I did not want to get into the nitty gritty details of sills, draft gear, etc. I'm glad folks like you step in and fill in those blanks for the inquiring. I am no carman, just a lowly civil engineer in training! haha
Any change in brake pipe pressure, whether by deliberate brake application or a break in the pipe, will take some time to propagate along the length of the train. In a train this long, a pressure loss near the rear of the train will have the rear in full emergency braking well before the loco's brakes apply.
@@KingdaToro a couple seconds for an entire train to dynamite. Probably faster than the slack will run out
And to put the braking in still further perspective, there's an EOT on the last car with an RF link to the lead loco.
When the BP ruptures, the pressure drop propagates in both directions, to either end of the train. As the pressure drop reaches a certain level at each car, the car's triple valve makes an emergency application and vents the BP to accelerate the drop.
When the drop reaches the EOT, the EOT will send an RF signal to the HOT indicating BP pressure loss.
So: in this case, where BP ruptured between cars 150 & 197, it's likely the loco blew an emergency in response to the EOT report. If the rupture happened at, say, car 50, the loco would've detected the BP drop first.
Rear end applications on 8800' trains takes up to 15 to 20 seconds to reach the head end. (45 years as a Conductor on SP/UP). 9 years building out intermodal/double stack trains at ICTF and City of Industry, CA...
Great video, you can really see those locos putting in some heavy work on that gradient. In the UK we refer to the black exhaust as 'Clag'. Class 47s in particular were known for it.
They must have been trying to pull my ex-wife's makeup bag
Now this...is a winning comment
+1. LOL.
or my sisters one😂
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
LOL YOU JUST MADE MY DAY
thanks for sharing and another reason why the railroad companies must not go for single crew member on freight trains
they have at least 2 in the engine.....
I love the old GE locomotives especially the c40-8s and dash 9s. Just that low 4 stroke grumble!
Flex tape! IT FIXES EVERYTHING
"To show you the power of flex tape, I sawed this train in half!"
*Phil Swift approves this message*
Duct tape
@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries thats a lot damage
Zip ties
Thanks for the complete and accurate explanation of events.
You may already be aware of this but what happened on that CSX train wasn't an uncommon occurance during steam days before the advent of m.u. or multiple-unit connections that are found on diesel locomotives where in an engineer can control multiple units. In steam days, when tackling a grade with more than one locomotive, each one had its own engineer who had to coordinate the speed of his engine with that of his counterpart.
I like listening to your narration; very informative and voiced in a pleasing way! Appreciate the good work!
A railfan learning experience thanks for posting!!
great catch
And I though your knuckle breaking video was the worst that could happen to a train crew, guess the train gremlins got a little destructive with one of the cars. XD
@Mason RaithbyVenesoen me too
Talk about chasing a train. I bet you didn't have to worry about breaking any speed limits as long as Q335 was running Restricted Speed for the duration. Great video and narration!
Conductor: I think I might go fishing when I get off, or climb in the stand. We should tie up at 1600
Train: So much for your early quit.
Dispatcher: I got a 1800 relief crew coming with the van.
Lol soo speaking from experience
Those things are incredibly impressive. The crazy amount of weight they are able to move is a testament to modern train engineering. That can be one dangerous job.
This was a very professional video. The narration was superb.
That Dash 8 at the end of the 3-engine lashup has a nice heavy chug to it...that boy was working and smoking hard
Great video and excellent Narration! You spoke when you needed to and then just let the video play out. Hope to see more of your video's.
Wow. Great video! Nice photography, and instead of 15 minutes of pictures you give lots of details information about what may have happened and what was done about it. Not boring in the least. Thank you.
I was surprised to see that MMA boxcar at the 1:22 mark. That is from the now defunct Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railroad. After the Lac Megantic disaster in 2013, MMA went bankrupt and was purchased by Fortress Investment Group to form the Central Maine and Quebec Railway. It's quite rare to see any rail equipment from Maine out this far west. Normally railroads that operate in the northeast keep their cars within the region.
Nice job and nice to see something fairly local. My FIL worked for C&O for decades.
Gotta be really frustrating for the crew when something like that happens. Big delay, can’t get normal speed, and very late to destination.
naw they don't care too much... stuff like this is par for the course when you work a pool turn... as long as the PAY CLOCK is ticking them guys are okay
It always amazes me that those couplers can hold the weight of that many cars. Amazing amount of weight!
That's right. I think the train was too long, but CSX probably wanted to save money by having fewer but longer trains. Safety and common sense last.
Hey, My dads a director and he says "Good video making craft. Nice to see in a world of shaky cam and meaningless narration. Well done"
Thanks! Try my best to keep the quality up!
@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries As a professional in the filmmaking industry, I'll second GeForce's Father. Your narration kept the whole thing flowing and made it more of a documentary that wasn't unnecessarily long and informative. I only have a passing interest in trains and you also helped to educate. Very good job indeed.
I can't believe I didn't find or hear about this until now I've lived in Grand Rapids for the past 18 years. I just found your channel and instantly subscribed!
On my N scale RR the coupler boxes are plastic......much stronger.
I don't think plastic is stronger than steel
R/Woooosh
Go back to your subreddit if you think that's a joke, it's not a good one@@SoonerStateSirens1
@@floridianrailauto9032 still r/woooooooooooooooooosh
@@trainzguy2472 Can you wooosh yourself back to your toxic subreddit too?
If CSX would run their ridiculously long trains with DPUs more often, then they wouldn't have this problem! I've seen a hell of a lot more CSWrecks trains this happened to than any other railroad!
7665 looks like she's going to need a beer after that run.
😂😂😂😂😂
That ole Dash-8 putting on a Great Show...!! *Long Live the "Tier 0" locomotive...!!! sweet vid.
Excellent commentary.
A true expert, and good with the English language.
It must have taken great effort to make that river bridge so ugly.
Judging by the riveted connections, it was probably built before 1915. Functional not pretty.
I will take a truss bridge for looks over the current boring concrete designs. The most boring of which are the over used cable-stayed designs currently in vogue, (see the Tappan Zee replacement).
Sometimes TH-cam suggestions are spot on. Great job, especially the narration
Some car inspector is getting points off of their evaluation! 😄
Michael Bowman i
What car inspector??? CSX got rid of all of them. They couldn't care less about maintenance. Just got to keep the stock price up.
Great Video. This reminds me of the TONS of HO Scale trains I have boxed up in my home that I haven't ran in years. Maybe its time to break them out into the light for a little exercise. Also, at 03:59 you stated that the coil car was scrapped on site. Was it carrying a load? If so, was the load damaged in any way?
....this is Cole Steam reporting with CSX News
Art Mccomeskey h9
I have no idea why I've been watching these CSX videos. But they're strangely entertaining. Why do you guys do this?
Because its their hobby duh
1 more thing the person who last inspected this car did not do it right , or the defect would have been seen. The box did not just fail, it had to have stress cracks that should have been seen. By the way the coupler release lever is called a cut lever.A very nice video too by the way, you don't often get to witness something like this happen.
One foamer actually caught a knuckle break as he was recording. Ferried the conductor to and from 63 and 64, and helped with the repair.
Would have been awesome to see the 151st car with the couple box ripped out
great videos! Great narrating and very informative! Really cool to see stuff so close to home!!
That was very interesting, great job on this!
I must say job well done with a camera an A+ across-the-board job well done keep up the good work
Cool video and good information. ..thanks for sharing.
Great catch their with this incident. One we don't often see is the railroaders fixing problems. Great vid.
Very good videography and excellent narration...thank you.
Well said. Other railfan photographers should take note.
Great video which was not only interesting but fun to watch and also easy to follow. The great narration was also well done - easy to listen to, fun to follow and interesting. Thanks for posting
What about the second locomotive, the one that was in the middle, why isn't it in use (or is it), as it appears on the video to be shut off?
I'm a noob, but I thought the same thing. Not that I'm saying you're a noob :-)
This is a guess but 403 might have been there for dynamic braking effort. Theoretically, you wouldn't need the prime mover lit to harvest electricity from the motors to divert to the resistors. I have no idea if locomotives are designed to do that.
@@rickboivin7732 The C40-8W is capable of MU Operation, thus a Prime Mover can be idling or shut off during operation because power from other engines within the consist can be harvested by the traction motors of the middle or trailing unit, sometimes lead, but it's not as common as middle or trailing, about the braking effort part, you're right, it also helps into having a greater brake efficiency, thus, shriking breaking distances dramastically, a 197 car consist with 2 engines would take approximately 2 miles to stop, with 3 engines but one with an idle or shut off prime mover, you can reduce that to 1.6 miles.
@@Jeremy974 'slug' operation confuses me. Are prime movers generally designed to provide more electricity than the drive motors can use?
While at the Norfolk Southern Pomona Yard, me and a couple friends caught a NB Norfolk Southern 12R Manifest breaking a train knuckle right in front of us, later that day, we heard that the Norfolk Southern 12R broke 3 more knuckles and ripped one whole coupler right out of another train car on a single main line that brought both NB and SB trains to a halt, that night, we saw 2 Norfolk Southern SD40-2's bring the remaining train cars of the Norfolk Southern 12R back to the yard that we were at
That was an experience while railfanning
Used a Kadee #5 when they should of used a #4.
More likely another case of Michigan cancer. Rust never sleeps.
ofc like everyone else on youtube ur a Expert.
@@dethronekingmma1246 He was making a model railroad reference joke, kadee makes model railroad couplers. As for the rust, he's right, that's really the only thing that can explain how the whole assembly, box and all came off the railcar like that, as that is not supposed to be a fail point, the pins are what are supposed to fail before anything else. Also, yes, model railroaders are more knowledgeable about railroads and how they work than most non-railroad workers as we usually strive for a more realistic model railroad and research into things to make the models as close to the real thing as possible.
When a car detaches from the rest of the train like one did in this case, how does the crew in the front of the train know? I imagine that possibly the sudden loss in brake pipe pressure would stop the entire train but is there more to it than just that? What about the last trailing car? Does that car have a plug installed on the brake pipe to seal it or is there more to it?
The loss of brake pipe pressure sets of the emergency brakes throughout the entire train.
The end-of-train device is capable of "dumping" the train from the rear by venting directly to the atmosphere. Crews have a switch in the cab they can hit to trigger it. It's just an electrically-controlled valve, which can be closed again when they need to. Some crews will use it to prevent the slack from rolling out in certain situations
Not gonna buy anymore railcars made in China! ;)
BTW I really enjoyed the shot on the bridge @ 05:47.
Except, there aren't really any freight cars in North America assembled in China...
Thornapple River Rail Series
Was just kidding, that's why I put the winking smiley. :)
+Thornapple River Rail Series that car was done anyway.....that's metal fatigue! !!
It's Gyna nor China, geesh get your countries straight. ;-)
I like the way this Is narrated and filmed.
Excellent video and great narration? Entertaining
It works less hard going slower than it does going faster. A running start only matters if there's wheel slippage to contend with.
That is inconvenient at best!
No footage of the other end of the broken car?
Quarter mile from the crossing, so no, unfortunately. There is a photo out there of the coil car still sitting in Lansing from a few months ago, but I can't link in comments.
Still interesting, thanks for posting!
Lou Pole
No. Inconvenient would be the knuckle breaking. This Is the worst possible scenario for a break-in-two.
An excellent video made even better by informed and clearly presented commentary. Well done.
Looks like the center sill (frame) just decided to give up the ghost. May be metal fatigue or those ever present "gremlins" Just another day of railroading.
look a little closer, there are football patches on the center sill. It's been cut out and re-welded in place at some time in the past. (Retired carman, I've cut more than a few cars down, shortened the center sill and made a different type car from it on programs @ Raceland Car Shops. Never worked a Gon program in that area, but I'd say it was poor welding from someone.
That's something you don't see everyday. Good job CSX crew.
Looks like it could be metal fatigue. And I understand then if they scrapped that car, probably the safest way to handle that problem.
And it's things that happens, nothing the crew could have done about it. Probably hard to spot at maintenance too unless you knew what you were looking for.
ehsnils
It's not that hard, GP-38s are prone to this and we have a task at inspection time to inspect the coupler pockets for cracks. If they're cracked, it's usually in the gussets in the corners. We arc gouge the cracks out and weld it all back up, gooder than new!
Probably should have been scrapped 15 years ago!
@@ralfie8801 you see this sort of thing in fifth wheel plates in tank trailers , cracks corosion, wear. Rain water , cemical spilled. Sometimes they are in very poor condition by the time for inspection.
Timothy Terrell
Railroad equipment is a bit different. They have periodic Federal inspections mandated by the FRA. I don't know what the time period is on rail cars, but on locomotives it's quarterly, with some inspections of safety related equipment being daily.
Nah, that's not much to fix, they'll roll it into a GBW, Watco, or one of the dozens of other railcar rebuilders around the country and it'll roll back out looking like new.
Now I understand why trains sometimes randomly block crossings, and creep at crazy low speeds.
This isn't the only reason. Train crews have limited work hours for safety reasons. If a crew hits their hour limit before a fresh crew can relieve them, they have to stop the train RIGHT THEN AND THERE... even if it's on a crossing.
So trains are like horses, once something goes wrong you put it out of it's misery!
Or not...that car is still sitting in Lansing, where it was setoff later that night...wonder if the broken off stuff is still laying in the right of way there in Whitneyville?
@@ThornappleRiverRailSeries good video I just subscribed
The last locomotive in the consist looks like it is auditioning for the next CSX unit to suffer a turbocharger failure and fire.
Would probably go alittle quicker with the middle engine running... but.. that's GE for ya.
It actually _was_ running, it was just under less strain due to its position, so it wasn't smoking and chugging as much. The train was going slowly because of regulations - the damage forced them to operate at restricted speed in case of strained couplers elsewhere in the train.
It had a different paint job, might have been newer and thus in better shape. Healthy engines smoke less.
Typical railfan comment. The reality is that over the last decade or so GE has been producing amazing equipment.
@@cdavid8139 GE just got rid of their locomotive business because they weren't making money anymore, and just about every railroad now is getting rid of their Dash 8s which aren't even that old
@@floridianrailauto9032 No. Get your facts straight. GE did not 'just get rid' of their locomotive business because they weren't making money'. GE sold their ENTIRE transportation division because they are desperate and WABTEC was willing to pay a shitload for that business. If you followed the stock market at all you would know this and could have avoided writing something so ignorant. Before you babble, understand your topic
I normally don't like any music, etc during my train vids...but your dialogue was both informative and interesting. Subbed!
At the 4:06 mark your incorrect. They are at restricted speed because they were delayed in a block. GCOR Rule 6.27 says,
When required to move at restricted speed, movement must be made at a speed that allows stopping within half the range of vision short of: Trains, Engine, Railroad cars,Men or equipment fouling the track, Stop signal, Derail or switch lined improperly.
When a train or engine is required to move at restricted speed, the crew must keep a lookout for broken rail and not exceed 20 MPH. GCOR Rule 9.9 talks about being delayed in a block.If a train has entered a block on a proceed indication that does not require restricted speed, and the train stops or its speed is reduced below 10 MPH, the train must proceed at restricted speed. The train must maintain this speed until the next signal is visible, that signal displays a proceed indication, and the track to that signal is clear.
Sort of. In this case they were in fact under the restricted speed due to their being in emergency. I'm not totally familiar with the rules, but in this case, as I recall, DIB would not have been in effect due to receiving direct dispatcher order/permission to proceed West when it was time. I'm fairly certain that overrides DIB, which is more intended for passenger trains stopping and locals switching, protecting themselves against other trains fouling former authority given by signals due to the time elapsed. Since the dispatcher could affirm that they allowed no conflicting movements, I don't therefore think they needed DIB. In either case, they both saw their next signal and cleared the emergency zone at the same time anyways. Side note, CSX doesn't use GCOR, they use their own rulebook.
There is no rule to go restricted speed after going into emergency. You are only governed under rule 9.9.
With Restricted Speed you may resume speed after the leading wheels pass the point the restricted speed is no longer required.
If there is a worry about broken rail they would proceed with a speed restriction.
the difference between restricted speed and a speed restriction is that you can proceed at normal speed when the leading wheels pass the point that restricted speed is no longer required, A speed restriction the entire train must pass the restriction.
Just to let you know, I work for the railroad.
Matthew Daniel Yes Mr. Daniel, but CSX doesn't use GCOR nor NORAC rules. They have their own rule book which doesn't follow either format. CSX doesn't dictate restricted speed after DIB unless the crew has been changed. CSX does, however, require restricted speed following an emergency brake application for the length of the train. This is to hedge against possible track damage caused by harsh train forces as the result of the emergency braking and unknown slack effects. CSX also requires the train to be prepared to stop at the next signal until it is determined that the signal is favorable to proceed. There are different requirements for trains operating in ABS territory vs. TCS.
At the first sentence you are incorrect. It's 'you're'.
This is a train video not an english class.
Great description I enjoyed the video-Thank you!
I like train videos on you tube🎄
When the air pipe is disconnected the entire train goes into emergency, not just the part toward the rear of the train from the disconnection.
Broken knuckles and locking pins were common in the steam era as rod steam locomotives have poor starting Tractive Effort. The engineers (American slang for “locomotive driver”) would back the locomotive, bunching the cars together. Then release the brakes and start off when the locomotive is pulling only the first car, then the second when tender-1, then 1-2, 2-3, etc., cars’ slack is taken up: bam-bam-bam-bam-bam-bam all the way to the caboose. T.E. increases greatly as the locomotive reaches as little as ½ mph, and will approach maximum at 2-5 mph.
Diesel-electric and electric locomotives don’t need to do this as their T.E. is maximum at starting, 0 mph/kmh. An electric drive locomotive rated 50,000# T.E. can pull with 50,000# at starting. Modern electric drive locomotives have traction (“slip”) control to prevent wheel slippage, coupler breakage and car load damage and shifting.
The engineer will “creep” (drive the locomotive slowly) as coupling slack is taken out to avoid jerking the cars. When all slack is gone the locomotive can be accelerated at full traction-controlled maximum T.E., considering if the train is on a curve, how sharp the curve, superelevation (“banking” or lateral tilt of the track). Cars, especially unloaded flat cars, can be derailed or even turned over if the train is on a curve.
There’s a lot more to driving a train than appears at first look.
Obviously the whole train does go into emergency, but the key thing to realize is that it takes time for all the air to run out of the lines so it takes a minute to propagate. In this case they believe a low hanging hose hit a crossing and initiated an emergency application towards the rear end of the train, which took time to propagate forward through all 10,000+ feet of train. Because they were moving downhill the coupler slack was bunched - so the rear end suddenly and quickly slowing down jerked the slack out and found a weak link in an old car. Rather than finding a knuckle, it happened to be this whole coupler draft gear.
That's broke, just throw some ductape on it and it will be fine. :)
Good point... Better hit everything else up with WD-40 just in case.
NorfolkSoutherns#1Fan no get the superglue and tape and put it back with some rail joints
That's probably what happened before this happened.
What is this? Roadkill rails?
Put some flex tape on that shit for a water tight seal
Ahhh many years I spent as a kid jumping off that bridge :) my old neighborhood... Still as beautiful as I remember it
The kids around there still do it...a local pastime I guess!
I think it broke.
several years ago I was listening to rail ops on the radio. radio tx from the loco "im in emergency" dispatch tx "any idea what happened" loco tx "i think it broke" dispatch tx "smart Alec"
The front fell off (the coil wagon).
Oh you think :)
Vary good !
I am TINGUA , Nova Iguaçu , Rio de Janeiro , Brasil .
Tank you !
Haha the trainmaster got off moveing equipment and he has no gloves on
Perfectly allowable by GCOR rules. Though 8 d9nt know about CSX specific rules.
UP rules say that giving off moving equipment is not allowed, unless an emergency. Glove rules is to wear them to protect against injury, but not required.
He went to look, not to touch. Eyes don't need gloves. Ha came, he saw, he said , I'm not touching that.
In general, when a coupler is broken or torn apart causing a separation of cars, is there a device or mechanism that stops the uncontrolled part of cars from rolling or running away?
Since the train's air take hose is parted when this sort of thing happens, it all goes into emergency braking, stopping everything. In this case, the crew then set numerous hand brakes on the cars they could no longer couple to, become departing with what they could still pull.
Trains too long, you'll see more of this or worst, derailments.
Not to mention waiting at crossings way past what's legal. But unless someone writes the tickets it will keep happening
Excellent narrative. It helps to know what is going on. Mike from Denver
CSX pulled that one straight from their textbook.
Awesome Video! Why were the engines (especially the dash 8) smoking so much?
You answered your own question: Dash 8. haha
+Thornapple River Rail Series How does Dash 8 answer the question? I am confused.
They're old, worn out engines being asked to give everything. Naturally, they'll pour smoke.
+Thornapple River Rail Series Ok thanks! Now I see how I answered my own question!!
Over-rich mixture, as in non-stoichiometrically correct fuel-to-air mixture. Sometimes done to achieve maximum power while sacrificing economy.
7665 is doing quite an ALCO impression pulling the grade. I can just imagine the racket that coil car must've made when that box let go.
wow!
well fuck...ouch...great narration sir...do you know -for a fact-the car was scrapped and not repaired? is that ARR rules?
jerry arnold it was beyond repair you cant fix that damage by welding and they probily harvested parts wheels/couplers/air lines/top of the car/and wheel sets leaving not much left and they cant fix that without tearing the car apart and to fix it it costs more to fix than buy a new one and you cant weld it good enough
BML54 © that might have been the reason for this failure...20yr ago this might have been a derail...
jerry arnold yep
BML54 © There is consideration in these parts that this car might have been HBO for Grand Rapids or Chicago. This hasn't been confirmed, but GR was receiving Coil Cars for repair. Could have been unrelated, but something to consider.
Was that a tractive effort issue or did the coupler just break?
as a conductor myself, I must say myself and most my peers absolutely hate being watched and taped by foamers. I mean how would you like being being put on youtube while working?
Like you should get royalties. Or a tip...
You should be flattered that others envy your job and want to film it. You could always get a job at Home Depot loading lumber. I doubt you would get filmed there then you'd be happy.
That's odd. So many people would LOVE to have a job that fascinates others and that a hobby is built around. I've railroaded my entire career and find it enjoyable that someone finds the amazing work we do interesting. (What I hate are those who second guess us). But if I can I go out of my way to be friendly.
Darren Pelletier I think he went and spoke to them since he has full commentary on the incident.
As an American, I love seeing videos like this. Police aren't crazy about being filmed either, but we know how that works.
Very cool catch & railroad story.
• Cheers from The Detroit & Mackinac Railway
Wonderful video, love your narrating.