K31 Run and Gun
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- The Shmidt-Rubin rifles are a series of legendarily accurate firearms. The Swiss are famous for maintaining their neutrality by keeping one hand free and the other on the hilt of a sword, and for many years the wonderful K31 was that sword. These straight-pull rifles are made with unparalleled craftsmanship, but how will it fare on the run and gun course?
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The way the 7mm swiss hits those plates. Those rounds hit with authority
Darth Famine 7.5mm
moi toi and Darth Famine, the diameter of the bullet from a GP11 is actually 7.77 millimeters 🤓.
Patric Hausammann i use .308 bullets to reload my cartridges successfully though.
moi toi, I agree, this works for me too, because I'm doing the same 😉. By the way, the .308 is 7.85mm in diameter.🤓
Patric Hausammann ah these measurement value are too complicated.
Fun fact the K31 is not a Schmidt-Rubin they are based on the design of Schmidt-Rubin but were actually developed by a rifle commission.
+Targetpopper I believe either Schmidt or Rubin were dead decades prior to the K31.
Kadesman yes, yes indeed you are quite right. Herr Schmidt, (died 1920), was the designer of the (Schmidt-Ruben) straight pool Bolt, & Herr Ruben, (died 1898), designed the round.
Kadesman Ever since the K93/00? Or K11?
They were built by Waffenfabrik Bern (swiss capital)
Impressive, for being designed in a commission.
something nobody ever talks about is how the wooden stock was carved so the finger 'grooves' are staggered and your thumb's groove is more forward than the wrapped around finger 'grooves'. This is more natural because when you hold a gun stock with your support hand, everyone flip their left hand upside-down like you are cupping something or holding a gun stock, you'll see that your thumb is 2-3 inches further forward than the tips of your fingers. Very creative design work all around by the Swiss.
+Star Kicker I noticed that on my K31, very clever and well thought out.
I noticed that too. Very nice feel to the rifle and the weight is very balanced.
But is it battle proven? This rifle never went into real combat and the K98, Lee Enfield, the Arisaka, the Mosin-Nagant, the Springfield 1903/1917 and others saw combat all over the world and their reliability was proven beyond a doubt. I would bet that this gun in real intensive combat would start to show up "little details" here and there in the mud and dirt trenches of a real battle.
One of the pride and joy of the shooting community of my country, Switzerland.
Excellent video as always!
das isch guet so
+Tobias “fpsswitzerland” F.
Dem chani nur bipflichte 😎👍
Neptune Bluez Im Frog of Lausanne
Hacker jams& Justwegamer Same town as well, but I am no frog.
Man that view of the rounds hitting the plate was awsome!
That would be a devastating round in combat.
Thought the same thing.
+The Wound Channel It's basically .30-06 ballistically. Somehow the bullets in gp11 are made of magic, though.
I really love the K31. The Swiss really know what their doing.
+The Morning Sage same. ive been wanting a 1911 or k11. they used to be all over. i wish id have bought one when they were cheap.
PJ Rivera The Swiss are always neutral because they are always armed with sufficient deterrance to not be invaded. The Swiss are some of the best marksman in the world.
I noticed you had to keep checking the magazine to see if you had any rounds left. Always remember the K31 has a last shot hold-open on the magazine, which will help your speed.
Meant to say "primary extraction" by the way.
+TFB TV been sorta waiting thought i would see it soon but in the run n gun thing id like to see a run and gun m39 fin mosin and maybe a mosin sniper challenge or somthing like that would be cool all in all tho awsome work i tune into every TFB run and gun always a job well done very nice work
+droppin plates aka the mosin pu scope vs the pem or just one or the other would be awsome even just a pu run and gun would be cool on the real u do an awsome job would watch any of your videos on these older firearms only other channel that compares is iraqvett888 but latly he hasnt been doin as much milsurp stuff it seems
+TFB TV Seconding the question, what is primary extraction? Thanks.
+Upstagemars2 Primary extraction is where there is some sort of leverage advantage to initially pulling the case from a chamber. After the bolt has rotated to unlock and the extractor-claw is gripping the cartridge, when you try to pull the bolt back (along with the case it is gripping) the case can be very "stuck" in the chamber from the force of being pressed against the side of the chamber. Also any even microscopic fouling between the case and chamber will be sort of "welded" by the heat and pressure of firing, the more the fouling the harder the primary-extraction. So clean your chambers and keep your ammo dry.*
This is the distinction with primary extraction. Pulling the case back that first few millimetres to break contact between the case walls and chamber needs a _high force over a short distance_, while the rest of the extraction needs a _low force over a long distance_ to fully pull the case out of the chamber and then eject it out of the receiver. You're still moving the bolt in the same direction, it's still extraction stage.
But most straight pull actions (and by extension, most self-loading weapons) tend to lack primary extraction due to the nature of how a bolt carrier usually holds the bolt. Not a problem with automatic weapons operated by gas pressure, you have plenty of force to power through such resistance. With manual straight pull it can get a little wonky.
It should be noted that Lee Enfield also lacks primary extraction, though this is a conscious trade off. It only needs a 60-degree turn to lock or unlock, the last 30-degrees in a Mauser is where the bolt hits a camming surface (a slope) that forces the bolt back a bit. This trade-off means Lee-Enfield bolt only needs to be rotated 60-degrees (rather than 90-degrees) to rotate it enough to draw it back. Also the rear locking mechanism allows more flex in the action but is shorter overall.
Lee Enfields do account for "stickiness" by deliberately loose chamber tolerances and choosing the right type of pliancy in case metal , this is at a knowing cost in accuracy and if not accounted for (as in Ross Rifles) then is the source of reliability problems.
Additional note: this is why big extractors are a big deal. If you are doing a lot to apply a lot of force to a cartridge case to yank it out but that force is being applied through a tiny little clip of metal, then the extractor is going to bend and slip off or break. Now you've pulled the bolt back but case hasn't ejected, try to load a new round and the new round jams trying to be pushed into the chamber blocked by the old case. But an extractor may always fail, even a big one like on an AK.
But... Mauser's extractor, that seems to be really reliable.
It's details like this which put Mauser action a lot closer to Lee-Enfield type action than just looking at the bolt movement distance.
Treblaine
Wow! Thank you for the incredibly detailed explanation. I have a Mauser, so knowing what I'm looking at I know exactly what it is now. Thanks! You're awesome!
there is a company that now makes the clips. they are black plastic but seem very durable . I bought 4 of them and they work very well .
made with a 3D printing thing. very easy to remake i believe
That straight-pull action is beautiful.
Brilliant
K31s do have primary extraction. The locking lugs are angled and the way the bolt cam slots (might not have terminology right) are machined the bolt hardly moves back till the bolt has turned about 15 degrees. Extraction is pretty damn good probably better than most its why they feel so slick even though the chamber is tight compared to most bolt actions especially Lee Enfield SMLEs.
They absolutely do have primary extraction, in fact much better than on a mauser and of similar kin to a lee enfield via angled locking recesses
6 rounds capacity magazine is a perfect composition this gun is masterpiece
Great swissrifle and very accurate!K11, K31, STGW57 and the MG51 has the same caliber, ist 7,5x55.
And 96/11 model too.
I have 3 of these k31 in perfect condition, built in 1935/44/45, I love them
So glad to see some classic TFB TV comming up on my recommended!
It may not be any faster than a turn-bolt action, but I still really like the idea of straight-pull actions. It just seems to me like there are less mistakes that can be made with fewer actions to perform.
Very nice run! I'm from Switzerland and i've got a K11 from my grandfather and also a K31 bought from a friend for 50 bucks. Both of them are in perfect condition and extremely accurate! I love our straight-pull carbines and i'm very proud of owning the old and the new one. I found out by the serial number that the K11 was made in 1925 and the K31 in 1945.
Greetings from Switzerland and go ahead with those great vids! Very enjoying!
Christoph Kull $50 for a K31 is quite a bargain, I paid mine 650 euros but hey everyone knows that french gun owners are rich or should I say gun sellers are thieves. Lol.
some of the k11s are cut down of the early k11 long rifles. I use 2 have a great collection of Swiss rifles from long k11 rifles, k11 carbine and k31s. sure?wish I had them now. tiger striped stocks, private purchased ones. one even had a special plate on side of butt stock with the guys name.
still have 1 long rifle the 89/11. these were converted to shoot the more power 7.5 Swiss round. I think they rebuilt the bolt to handle the pressure of the 7.5 rd.. do you do any of the shooting matches your country puts on? use 2 know people on some gun boards who talked of going over to vacation and that was one of the things they did.
also lots of these rifles have military owners names and where they lived on cards under the burnt plates. like everything the Swiss do these rifles even today are top of the line shooters. 1500 meters with iron sights so cool
Thank you for doing this video! it' was pretty amazing actually watching a K31 in action like this.
sling is backwards
Got a giggle out of this
I love these run and gun videos! Keep it up!
This is like calling a magazine a clip. Of course the Lees and K31's have primary extraction, saying they don't would be an insult to their designers because it would be like saying extremely these extremely competent gunsmiths simply forgot about a very necessary and basic part of modern repeating firearms design. The lugs on both of these rifles' bolts are cut at an angle so they are rhombus shaped rather than square. They have even better primary extraction than a mauser, being that it is accomplished over the entirety of the bolt lift or rotation, by the locking lugs themselves, and not by the interference of the bolt handle with a ramp on the receiver bridge. Someone who repeats this fallacy is doing a disservice to the overall community and has probably never thought about it or seen the bolts on these rifles themselves.
Well he is a mauser fanatic. Give him ANY old military bolt action which isn't a mauser and there'd be a "It's not like a Mauser where...." in his commentary.
Basically he compares everything to a Mauser and treats everything like a Lee Enfield. Always mentioning how it's somehow inferior to the Mauser and moronically working the bolt like a Lee Enfield
"iT's nOT aS gOod as A mAuSEr", "iT's nOt fAsT LiKE aN eNFieLd"
The K31 does have primary extraction.
gotta love the speed of a k31
Very accurate rifles someone I know has one with aftermarket diopter sights. off a bench rest 200m could not believe the accuracy from a military rifle.
I remember seeing a ton of these at gun shows.
That 174 grain 7.5 Swiss round/ammo was smacking the hell out of that steel plate!
my local gun store has a K31 would you recommend getting it?
+the obvious American how much
+the obvious American In Germany it is like 150€. So for same in $ I would definetly buy it!
+Hans LPs 150 in Germany?? Mann in Belgien kosten die uber 350€.
***** It is very hard (takes maybe a year to get the licence) but you can.
***** same in Belgium as in germany
When I was in the army, we did "run downs" where we would start at the 500 m mark, run to the 400 and fire prone, run to the 300 and fire sitting, then run to the 200 and fire standing, or something similar. I know it's hard to find that kind of range when you aren't on an army base, but you should try it.
Another fun drill was doing this as a section/squad with falling plate targets as a timed drill.
Finally I've been waiting forever for this! Nice job with the 24 hits.
The best accurate european rifle of the 20th century.
How about the AK-74?
looking at the clips, I would guess that you would be able to 3d print substitutes if you cant get your hands on the orginals
Christopher Konrad that’s a great idea, but you would have to print with flexible plastic or something to keep the rounds in but also be able to extract them
I really miss your videos, I hope you come back someday.
Impressive gun & shooting. Zombies would not have a chance against that kind of firepower.
Correction, k31s indeed do have positive extraction
Really smooth method. Great rifle for sure. I have seen a Swiss bolt action rifle that had a Winchester type magazine tube. These rifle came out in 1869 and held 14 rounds. Incredible advance in firearms technology considering that muzzle loaders using cap and ball technology were still being used on a mass scale just 4 years prior.🙂🙂🙂🙂👍👍👍👍👍
That would be a Vetterli.
Could you please do an M1 Carbine?
I LOVE my K31. Being a lefty it's a bit hard to be super fast like you but I still get decent speed and hits with it.
Just a question ... amateur here... if you keep your left hand on the trigger and you handle the bolt with your right, should be easier than reloading with your triggerhand right?
That Boy is on 🔥 Great shooting sir. Hope your on my side
They do make plastic K31 clips. They do not work "as well" and they are a bit of a tight fit because you need a larger nominal thickness for plastic molding than what you can get with a card stock and thin sheet steel, but they do fit and they do work. The plastic tabs are a bit weak, so don't go throwing them around or the rounds will come out. In any case, they are perfect for bench shooting and you don't have to risk destroying your originals.
Bloke on the Range did a very good video on the primary extraction of the k31 and other rifles. Apparently on the k31 it exists and is quite good.
The K31 (and ealier swiss straight pulls) do have positive extraction. They have helical locking lugs.
When the bolt is unlocking it will move back a bit, just like a turnbolt with positive extraction.
A 1903a3 run and gun would be amazing in my book. Any 1903 model run and gun would be amazing lol I love the Run and Gun vids, keep em coming!
Awesome! My k31 is my favorite rifle. It works for everything and does it ever so elegantly.
From what I've seen/read the K11 and K31 were designed to be able to use their own chargers and Mauser styled charger, not sure how easy it would be to find that style of charger, but just wanted to mention it
THAT is one hell of a unique rifle; rather unusual but damn sweet.
Keep'em comin'.
At the risk of stating obvious, the big ring safety and cocker is for use with heavy gloves as is big trigger guard, big bolt pull handle, etc as gets real cold in Switzerland - form follows function, elegant engineering.
That magazine design and material makeup seems prime for a 3D printer project!
im from switzerland ;D
+BigATB and ammo! send ammo!
Fuck that think you can do yer old pal scotland a favour and send us that nice rifle with ammo
+DemonHunter2711 or you come to switzerland and we shoot some rounds
+Tobias “fpsswitzerland” F. that could be a plan for my 18th next year
+DemonHunter2711 👍👍
Nice! I recently purchased one and absolutely love shooting it (it's that Close to 308 load) you are a very talented young shooter! Love your work and bang ping of the metal targets 😍
Lovely Video
Just recently inherited my Grandfathers K31 tougether with 3 Loading clips.
Loocking forward to take it out at the range
these run and gun videos are very informative and fun to watch. keep them coming!
Awesome, my dad has a k31 and it's one of the coolest bolt guns out
Here is an important consideration for military service rifles. We have to consider the ease of training, reliability, simplicity, mass producability and effectiveness at relatively short ranges 300 meters or less. The average military recruit really doesn't give a damn about becoming an expert marksman. Most military recruits want to qualify with their rifle, complete their military service schools, get on with their job field in their military specialty, then get on with their life as a civilian again. The K31 Swiss rifle in 7.5x55mm and the Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55mm are easy rifles to learn to shoot accurately. The recoil in these rifles are a little gentler than other bolt action military service rifles. Both of these rifles were popular with the troops who were issued them in Switzerland and Sweden. The Swiss and the Swedes were a lot smarter about developing reliable, simple, easy to train on rifles for their recruits. What matters most is what the recruits of these countries thought of their service rifles. The opinions of gun geeks in America matter very little.
For people who din't know the difference between the positives of both turn bolt handle or straight pull, it's simple.
With a turn bolt gun, you can just manupilate two fingers to work the bolt while you're still firmly carrying the rifle and hand on the trigger, ready to fire. Besides, like what Alex said, with that huge straight pull bolt, it can't rest as freely so it requires an extra reinforcement where the stripper clip lays and thus it's harder to fumble mostly for straight pulls even for the Manlicher style of rifles and the lack of an auto removal of used stripper clips already slows down the reloads by a fraction of a second and everyone that fought on the battlefield knows... If a fraction of a second is lost, all lives could be lost.
With a straight pull gun, you do not have to bring the weapon away from your shoulder to cock the bolt. You can do it when it's resting on your shoulder so you would have the sight picture of your target lined up, ready for the next shot thus allowing you to fire the 1st shot mostly. However, due to the bolt requiring almost an entire palm to work it, it renders the firer to take time again to hold the trigger while those with turn bolt guns already had their hand on the triggger all along. Sure I said that it would be quick but we're using a pro shooter as a benchmark and even in the military, soldiers are learnt to use their middle finger to fire for turn bolt guns and using their index and thumb to work the bolt thus pretty much nullifying the speed of the straight bolt pull could create or even if it did, it's not significant.
With that said, both styles has it's strength and weaknesses and both are not showing anything superior against each styles but one thing's for sure. The K31 is one of the best if not the ultimate best of bolt action rifles to ever been produced. It's solid, wickedly accurate, looks extremely cool and very well-made.
+Speed Reaper my arguments with what you say are that even with a turn bolt rifle you dont have to remove the gun from your shoulder while working the bolt.
and as to the "With a turn bolt gun, you can just manupilate two fingers to work the bolt while you're still firmly carrying the rifle and hand on the trigger, ready to fire" you dont work the bolt with two fingers while youre still firmly carrying the rilfe and hand on the trigger. you have to remove your hand from the grip to work the action with a turn bolt rifle also.
the k31 doesnt have extra reinforcement around the clip guide, and its bolt isnt any bigger than any other turn bolt rifle of the period.
your one criticism that has merit is the argument about having to physically remove the "stripper clip" manually. however in my experience the k31 loads into the magazine from the clip much more smoothly and consistently than most mauser style rifles. so whats lost one end of the reload is made up on the other end.
part of the thing about straight pull rifles is when shooting hidden prone, you dont have to move your shoulder and elbow as much to work the bolt, which is supposed to help hide your position.
When I bring my M98/48 home on Saturday, this is the next rifle on my list to acquire.
Immaculate thanks for the demonstration.
love that blast from the hits on the steel
so sickening, those rounds are hitting that steel so hard. Great video, truly pissening
-Lord vader/macho man rick savage
I bet this is how they did Steel Challenge back in the day.
Not sure if I would call straight pull faster, I just like it because I can make followup shots without taking my eye off the sights and don't have to worry about smacking myself in the face.
Great vids! Been watching for over a week and I love the tone, editing and reviews.
On a side note, I wish I knew what happened to cause the milsurp rifles to go bonkers on price. Seeing K98's and K31's on GB for over $800 is ridiculous.
My father got his for 140$...
Its' called supply and demand.
Man...I'd kill for a K98 or G98 for $800, hahaha
I went to the Militaria fair at Ciney, Belgium a few weeks ago and saw a box full of K31 clips.
Granted some were bent a little bit but most of the were in good shape, I dind't buy any because the man that sold them did it for €15,- per clip.
They are available but not very cheap.
I'd enjoy seeing a Steyr M95 long rifle.
Those are probably my favorite guns out there.
I would like to have a m95 too. Or a Gewehr 88, a Carcano 91 or Arisaka.
The K-31 is the greatest combat rifle ever devised. It is lighting fast, ungodly accurate, and devastatingly powerful. It's one extra shot over the competition and incredibly rapid straight-pull bolt was a game changer. It is widely regarded as one of the primary reasons why Hitler wanted to have nothing to do with invading Switzerland. The Nazis would have bee slaughtered by the highly trained Swiss troops.
+D5quared91 There were many more reasons for the Germans not invading Switzerland than the rifles they were issued, but I understand the sentiment.
He always had plans of invading, but only until after winning the war
This is not true. Hitlers plan was invading switzerland with the Operation „Tannenbaum „ (christmastree“) Hitler hatet switzerland deeply.
The plan was, to invade switzerland togheter with the italians, But the cofficers told him to hold back, because it could be hard to getting the swiss down.....
Swiss, the yesteryear Spartans of Europe during WWII.
The one rifle that I think could match with the K31 in its positives is the SMLE.
- Big mag compared to competing bolt guns.
- Fast. The origin of the Mad Minute.
- Powerful. .303 British is no slouch.
The SMLE isn't quite as accurate or as finely made as the K31, though. And the straight-pull bolt is easier to operate at high speeds compared to the very specific method that the SMLE requires.
The company that makes the k31 chargers is Northridge International .
I just got this rifle, love it but haven't had the chance to shoot it yet. That's a nice looking bayonet. Nice video.
How can anyone hate on this rifle? Definitely cycles easier and better then a mosin
Love my K31. By far the most accurate battle I own. I am a bad shot with irons but still shot 1.5" using GP11.
that pulling speed is insane compare to most bolt action rifle, can't even deny that.
from 1:52 to 1:58 come on just look at that!
If they put that bolt on the non dominant side with a bipod that rifle would give someone a hell of a day.
Damn bro you’re a badass shot. I got one of these rifles for free. Actually looking forward to shooting it now
Cold War brought me here. Im expecting a fast rechamber and it to feel like the kar but im sure theyl mess it up
Best straight pull bolt action in my opinion.
Straight pull rifles are so interesting.
The best surplus rifle ever made, better than the M1 Garand.
You're kind of pushing it there. The K31 is a hell of a rifle but it isn't battle proven.
Proficient with the rifle and competent in 24/1!
Check your charging handles on k31 for cracks
Charging handle of k31 also act as a out of battery safety, it collected with firing ping, should bolt does not close , the slamming firing pin push the charging handle and close the bolt to prevent out of battery fire.
Its also available on world of guns.
This bad boy saves time when reload its pretty good idea for a bolt action rifiles
That is a very sweet rifle. thanks for sharing .
Field strip in the future? beautiful gun, great shooting.
Love my k31!!
Awesome vid! Any chance you could do some black powder videos?
So, just an amateur here ... if you were to keep your left hand on the trigger and operate the bolt with your right hand, then you could reload really faster than right-handed operation? And there are no specific hinderances to left handed use?
very cool and clear great video awesome gun it's like a Mauser or something
This thing can really extract. The empty cases are thorwn like 2 meters up.
Yeeeessss. How about an Arisaka next?
I just got one on Monday just waiting for some ammo
Always wanted one of these...
About 8 or 10 years ago there was a lot of surplus 7.5x55 GP90 on the market, and Sportsman's Guide was including a few chargers with each 60 round pack. Funny to hear they're getting hard to find.
+Charles Inglin GP11 is what you mean (7,5x55mm).
GP90 is the modern counterpart in 5,56x45mm
+jodelboy You're right. GP11. What was I thinking.
Great rifle for a cheap price the swiss knew how to make good stuff including this
Hey TFB! Any recommendations on where to get Surplus rifles? I can't find many to buy online, and I don't know which stores to go to that might have one.
I should have gotten one a few yrs ago when they were more plentiful. The stripper clip design seems ungainly. This is surprising, since the Swiss did everything else so well on this one. A stamped steel stripper clip is good mature technology. Been imoressed with these since seeing print articles years ago. Great video
The ammo was packt in stripperclips back then, those clips where intendet to be thrown away after charging, so this is a perfect economic solution.
could you do a run and gun with a Carcano 91? i will enjoy it
+dimapez I kinda think that's the idea, to see just how much it sucks.
I'm italian and i love the carcano it isn't the best rifle i the world but is the rifle who used our grandfathers. It is simple gun but it works
+Thompson13 It is good enough I would say.
+Thompson13 I actually own an M 41 Carcano and of the milsurp rifles I own it might be my favorite. Its light, with low recoil and very accurate.
I would enjoy a Carcano run and gun as well.
+dimapez Then maybe it would be good to do a Carcano run and gun since they tend to point out a rifles negatives in real use? Whats the point of R&G if youre only doing videos on 'good' guns you know will pass?
Great shooting and weapon handling. We all know the K31 to be very accurate, but it is a heavy rifle with stout recoil. Not really an easy weapon to run around with shooting unsupported accurately.
The bayonet on this gun is gorgeous, but what's with the market for K31 bayonets? They were $100+ even 15 years ago when you could buy a whole k31 for $70. That's way more than most surplus bayonets even for other swiss guns.
The shooting was nice, no need to put the thumb over the tang and there is no law forcing you to use the upper part of the "beer keg" though - pull open on the lower part with the index finger and extend it when shoving it closed with your thumbwedge and the trigger is right there. Never once had a extraction issue with mine it is stiff to open because one directly pulls the firing pin back and cocks it when opening the action (unlike a mauser where the rotation cocks it via a curve) you might shorten the firing pin spring for smooth sporting use. Me i love mine, scoped in a boyds walnut stock with the ability to cycle without breaking the cheekweld even more since it got me my first wild boar on a driven hunt this winter :)
I have been testing the new poly clips, working out so far. Still have more testing to be done.
Pretty cool Weapon!
I think the K31 chargers are faster, smoother, and easier to use than any stripper clips I've ever used. The shells almost fall into the magazine with no effort at all.
The sling is mounted in the not correct way ;) Good job for the fast Shooting :)