Very well explained - I actually feel like I could do this myself after watching this video. And the treble range on your piano really does sound great! Can't wait for the next installment
Thanks so much for both your compliments! I hope you have a grand piano you can try this on. It really isn't rocket science and it can make such a difference!
This is a well made video though, I don't think non-technicians ought to be playing to much with such aspects of their instruments. Moving your grand action too far out will oft result in keys getting jammed on the keyslip - or even getting stuck as they rub against the capo or pinblock edge. To test strike point without moving the action, you can angle a screwdriver under the treble keyframe pin (that goes into cheek block notch) and lift up; which results in hammers striking farther from capo. It is another test of compromise as, you often gain clarity but sacrifice color and roundness of tone :) Nice video !
I’m so happy to hear this! Honestly, when I released this video I had fantasized about hearing messages like yours from piano owners all over the globe. You are the first “success story” I’ve heard about. I imagine you had to work a little harder than a grand piano owner. But so worth it, right?? Congratulations!
@@insidepianos I have played another Mason 50, and it had a totally different upper end and voicing just didn't seem like the right move, it was kind of a pain in the ass, the action moves up and down with 4 studs holding it up, but I tightened the two right studs about 2mm and the top two octaves went from sounding like knocking wood to nice bell-like tones! now I'm adjusting all the capstans to make up for he smaller loss motion so it's not gonna mess up the action until I can get a real technician to do a proper regulation, but moving that 2mm down towards the strike point made me fall in love again with this old piano! I guess you have to be a certain kind of obsessed to actually do it and experiment, but the rewards are very worth the work!
I own a Steinway model r 1907. I'm quite happy with it but the highest end could be more bright. The hammers hit the string in a downward angle, so not 90°. This makes the striking point go down somewhat, among other things. My technician sais this is how it's supposed to be but I have my doubts. What would you say to this?
That is the case on many uprights--a more acute angle. The strike point can be adjusted up/down on an upright though. Maybe you could try that. Of course everything else should be working properly before concluding that strike point alone is to blame. As hammers wear, though, the strike point drifts lower. It makes sense that raising the hammers (via the entire action) could re-establish proper strike point.
Hmmm. Bummer. Perhaps some type of spacer? There are ways to calculate the theoretically optimal strike point. If ever you made a new hammer set they could be angled to strike there. I don’t know of any rule that the angle has to be less than 90, though I doubt you’d want to venture beyond 90. Also, if there’s enough felt one could shape the hammers to have a higher strike point… but we’re only talking minor changes here.
@@insidepianos The hammers strike downward, so new hammers with thicker felt would help. I suggested this to my technician, who's a very experienced man and third generation Bechstein specialist (although we're talking about Steinway here, so he's only a specialist of the "stein" section 😄). But he insisted on reshaping of the felt because the hammers differ from new ones (they are lighter) and still had enough felt on them. He voices them on my request every time he tunes the piano and then they sound ok for a while, apart from the top section like I mentioned. I have to say my technician is kind of a purist and keeps things as original as possible. He's not so much a musician and I think that's where he doesn't meet my expectations as a technician. Anyways, my intuïtion when it comes to technical matters is quite ok and it tells me the angle should be 90°. I'll make an effort to confront him with this once again and who knows hurt his ego and spoil the atmosphere. Unless he can explain his theory of course. I'm sure you'd like to know the explanation if there is one so I'll write it to you. Then you can also upgrade your piano's with the secret trick of downward striking hammers! I'm quite happy with my old Steinway as it has a 19th century-like sound quality. I'm aware that I have to learn to live with the shortcomings of it.
@Rik Hendriks FYI, Uprights almost NEVER have a 90 degree angle at the shank. It's because of the geometry of the action...complicated. Steinways (old) often have as much as a 7 degree rake angle here. Ideally the hammers on these pianos up in the treble should be extremely thin and light. If you look at original Sty hammers from the turn of the century and earlier you will see how they carved out as much as they possibly could to get them as light as possible. Very little felt too. Strike point is very important esp down to about note #72. Regards Peter Grey Piano Doctor
Very well explained - I actually feel like I could do this myself after watching this video. And the treble range on your piano really does sound great! Can't wait for the next installment
Thanks so much for both your compliments! I hope you have a grand piano you can try this on. It really isn't rocket science and it can make such a difference!
This is a well made video though, I don't think non-technicians ought to be playing to much with such aspects of their instruments. Moving your grand action too far out will oft result in keys getting jammed on the keyslip - or even getting stuck as they rub against the capo or pinblock edge.
To test strike point without moving the action, you can angle a screwdriver under the treble keyframe pin (that goes into cheek block notch) and lift up; which results in hammers striking farther from capo.
It is another test of compromise as, you often gain clarity but sacrifice color and roundness of tone :)
Nice video !
Amazing tip. I will certainly try this.
Sometimes it really makes an appreciable difference.
I did this to my '69 Mason and Hamlin 50" upright, and omg it sounds SOOO much better in the treble, so round, so full, so powerful!
I’m so happy to hear this! Honestly, when I released this video I had fantasized about hearing messages like yours from piano owners all over the globe. You are the first “success story” I’ve heard about.
I imagine you had to work a little harder than a grand piano owner. But so worth it, right?? Congratulations!
@@insidepianos
I have played another Mason 50, and it had a totally different upper end and voicing just didn't seem like the right move, it was kind of a pain in the ass, the action moves up and down with 4 studs holding it up, but I tightened the two right studs about 2mm and the top two octaves went from sounding like knocking wood to nice bell-like tones!
now I'm adjusting all the capstans to make up for he smaller loss motion so it's not gonna mess up the action until I can get a real technician to do a proper regulation, but moving that 2mm down towards the strike point made me fall in love again with this old piano!
I guess you have to be a certain kind of obsessed to actually do it and experiment, but the rewards are very worth the work!
Videos are very interesting.
John Simmons
Thanks John! You can understand how I got drawn into the technical side of the piano, can’t you?
I own a Steinway model r 1907. I'm quite happy with it but the highest end could be more bright. The hammers hit the string in a downward angle, so not 90°. This makes the striking point go down somewhat, among other things. My technician sais this is how it's supposed to be but I have my doubts. What would you say to this?
That is the case on many uprights--a more acute angle. The strike point can be adjusted up/down on an upright though. Maybe you could try that. Of course everything else should be working properly before concluding that strike point alone is to blame. As hammers wear, though, the strike point drifts lower. It makes sense that raising the hammers (via the entire action) could re-establish proper strike point.
@@insidepianos I'm aware of that. However this piano is a Steinway model r 1907 and doesn't have that option.
Thanks anyway!
Hmmm. Bummer. Perhaps some type of spacer? There are ways to calculate the theoretically optimal strike point. If ever you made a new hammer set they could be angled to strike there. I don’t know of any rule that the angle has to be less than 90, though I doubt you’d want to venture beyond 90.
Also, if there’s enough felt one could shape the hammers to have a higher strike point… but we’re only talking minor changes here.
@@insidepianos The hammers strike downward, so new hammers with thicker felt would help. I suggested this to my technician, who's a very experienced man and third generation Bechstein specialist (although we're talking about Steinway here, so he's only a specialist of the "stein" section 😄). But he insisted on reshaping of the felt because the hammers differ from new ones (they are lighter) and still had enough felt on them. He voices them on my request every time he tunes the piano and then they sound ok for a while, apart from the top section like I mentioned.
I have to say my technician is kind of a purist and keeps things as original as possible. He's not so much a musician and I think that's where he doesn't meet my expectations as a technician.
Anyways, my intuïtion when it comes to technical matters is quite ok and it tells me the angle should be 90°. I'll make an effort to confront him with this once again and who knows hurt his ego and spoil the atmosphere. Unless he can explain his theory of course. I'm sure you'd like to know the explanation if there is one so I'll write it to you. Then you can also upgrade your piano's with the secret trick of downward striking hammers!
I'm quite happy with my old Steinway as it has a 19th century-like sound quality. I'm aware that I have to learn to live with the shortcomings of it.
@Rik Hendriks FYI, Uprights almost NEVER have a 90 degree angle at the shank. It's because of the geometry of the action...complicated. Steinways (old) often have as much as a 7 degree rake angle here. Ideally the hammers on these pianos up in the treble should be extremely thin and light. If you look at original Sty hammers from the turn of the century and earlier you will see how they carved out as much as they possibly could to get them as light as possible. Very little felt too.
Strike point is very important esp down to about note #72.
Regards
Peter Grey Piano Doctor