@@eastatlantalandscapellc6053 it has been great. I have about 180 hour on it and no big issues. There is a follow-up video that is one of my last videos. I don't have the exact manufacturer here now but it is spelled out in the video you are commenting on.
I own a 32 piece heavy equipment company, machines that range from 2T to 45T excavators, dozers and backhoes. Been at it for two decades. Four years ago, my company was engaged by two Chinese companies to use and review their mini (2.5T) and mid size (10T) excavators, I put three into use for six months. All of this in exchange for real world reviews. I found that each were what I’d consider medium duty. Unlike major brands, I use Caterpillar almost exclusively, the power and pivot points of the Chinese machines were insufficient. Although the price of these units was a fourth of what the majors get, they were not able to do the same task. Wear and tear was an issue, the Chinese units required at least twice the upkeep. So, you get what you pay for, as always. I alway recommend to the inexperienced to rent first. You’ll quickly and painlessly learn exactly the size and configuration of the machine you need. Then, you can do a cost breakdown. A majority of the time a person will quickly summarize that renting is the best option. My conclusion on the Chinese units. They are over rated in digging force, stability and endurance. The engines and hydraulics are adequate but under heavy loads they don’t support the ratings. For light digging, they are fine. Hard soils, heavy boulders or stumps, not so. A comparable major brand will vastly out perform. I’d suspect we will see several of the Chinese units flood the market in the years to come, and they will eventually be sold used. That is where the cautious buyer will get the steep bargains without the shipping costs, delays and hassles.
There is the name brands in China which would be equivalent to Caterpillar think Sany etc, these Alibaba brands are mostly just trading companies and their machines are not up to the task and you will be over-paying. A Chinese operator knowing the real price of these though he would never buy them would laugh.
This is an interesting perspective. Here in Florida, I could hit a few local auctions and get a banging deal on an excavator like that or larger. (or even shop the local used market). It is not unheard of in this area to score a piece of equipment with similar specs, or better than the chinese unit, for around $10,000. All those taxes, unexpected fees, and paperwork would've been a test of my willpower lol.
I see a lot of guys arguing the “you can find one local for less”, I’m in SC, and while this area has tons of construction happening, that also opens good deals on equipment. Definitely won’t find one half the cost, but could possibly find one used, but a tad bigger, enclosed cab, etc for around the same price after all the “fine print” fees. Those import brokers on our end are literally screwing people bc they know they can & there’s nothing anyone can do bc they’re a necessity to get your goods in. Anyway, I like the idea of a new machine for the price, but damn that’s a lot of headache
@@themetalfusionologist I hadn't yet verified my account at the time i made that comment, so i think my replies were removed for that reason, but i found a machine local to NE FL for $10k with near identical specs to the one in this video, and it was a 2023 model. It's definitely regional, and its definitely rare. But it is entirely possible.
I'm a licensed customs broker (LCB). Your forwarder was merciful. I usually charged $1,200 for a single entry bond, and his entry fee of only $140 was reasonable. That said, a third of his charges are what we called 'fillers', and explains why his entry fee was so bad. If I had a half million I'd probably get my port license somewhere and start bringing these little guys in. With my own truck and a couple guys I could retail those excavators for about $20k.
Thank you for that insight. That would be a good business. I plan on buying a planet/moulder for all the wood that I am having milled these days. What would be the most efficient way of importing this while missing the fillers? The fuel surcharge was the worst.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW Sadly the fuel surcharge is beyond your ability to avoid. The best way to mitigate is if you had an FCL (full container load). Your excavator came LCL (less than container load) and that's why they dogpiled on you. The forwarder and their overseas agent contract with a steamship line for a full container and then fill it with lots of small loads. They likely have dozens or hundreds of containers like this every week. They get a discounted rate on that margin and make more profit by charging large fuel surcharges to each consolidator down the road. If you want to do this going forward (not a one-off) your best bet is to find a freight forwarder, explain you're building a business, and start negotiating space on a regular basis. If you stay with one-off, you have limited options. Sorry.
If you can unload yourself...ddp is usually cheaper..with ddp you know before your finish the order what your total cost will be. The only other fee you will need to pay with ddp, is generally the rental of a fork lift to unload your shipment..the con of ddp is that you need to pay in full before or when the product ships. It sounds like you did CIF. CiF is good because you have time to pay the duties and agents fees so that could give you another.30 days or more until you need to pay the 25% duty ..however as you learned you never know what the port is going to charge- they come up with new fees while you are waiting
Yeah with all the fees and stuff I think it would be better just to buy locally. I'm sure you get a lightly used Kubota with similar specifications for that amount of money or maybe even less.
I have been thinking of doing the same as for for a while but I was scared to order from china. Thank you for making such an informative video. This is very well put together. Gives me some more data points to order local or from china.
Hello friend, have a good day, this is Denny the sales manager of Rippa, a professoional excavator manufacturer since 2014, we can supply many models excavator. Tell us what we can assist you.
@郭晓东 I'm thinking of purchasing one, I have order several things from ALIBABA, with really no issues when did my connect was awsome both times. BUT IM WORRIED about extra fees. Everything I order I get CIF CASH,INSURANCE, FRIEIGHT SO I just pay to my door. But never got something this heavy. Would love to talk. I want to purchase by end of year. Thx if can help
"the process was pretty straightforward" good god. you could probably start a business importing these things and handling all that. I wouldn't go near something like this. I have a hard enough time buying local things and having a successful outcome. Time is precious as well. My mind keeps wandering back to buying straight from china but in the end I always just go looking through the used machinery listings
@@einarmikkelsenPNW Would you be interested in being a middle man for people looking to buy these equipment? Do all the import stuff, tack on a percentage for yourself, and let the buyer pick up the item at your yard?
It always comes as a shock to first time buyers on Alibaba about just how many hidden charges and taxes are involved in getting the product to them. You'd think shipping would be as easy as using a courier but there's about 20 different companies involved in one shipment and it's near impossible to coordinate unless you are a forwarding agent. It still all works out cheaper than buying domestic over all.
Thanks for posting this Einar, it's great to have all the (inflated) fees exposed that are associated with importing products. Did you find any opportunity for negotiating the fees? Are there any that could be worked around or avoided using different tactics?
There were no opportunities to negotiate. However, the smallest fees for oversize shipment would have been avoided by not having the enclosed cab. Because it was too tall for one crate, it had to be removed and shipped separately.
I have heard that shipping to your door can work well. AND maybe avoid rip-off port fees. I'll be importing a 1T all electric lithium 15kwh mini soon. With 10 attachments runs about $9K in Shandong China. Wondering how much shipping customs and fees will run. Based on this fantastic video (thanks Einer!) I can realistically estimate 50% additional coming to $13.5k. Unfortunately haven't seen any electrics in USA yet. Seems pretty cutting edge still. But let's face it: fossil fuel engines with all their fluids and fumes can be a nightmare. I'll be contacting the port of Portland about door to door service.
The real issue is the depreciation of it which will be drastic. I would be curious to know the hours used at the end of the build and wonder if they would have been better off just renting as needed. Obviously renting has the issues of not having the exact time you need it but you don’t have to worry about breaking, storing it (long term) and maintenance.
Renting is great if you have a short, single project where you have a pretty good understanding of what's to be done and how long it takes. On the other hand, if you own the machine, you're gonna find many uses for it where you would never consider renting due to cost and effort. Of course it depends a little on the machine type, but e.g. I own a backhoe loader. I'd never rent any large equipment for removing snow from my property for an hour every two weeks. But still it saves my back a couple times every winter and makes things possible. Or at this time of the year (northern Europe) there's not a lot of daylight to make use of, and it's getting worse. So removing tree stumps is pretty much one or two a day. I certainly won't rent a machine for two weeks just to have it sitting on my yard 23 hours a day and get charged like I'd use it around the clock. With owning there's obviously a large upfront payment before you get to even use the machine, the ongoing maintenance fees, and all the headache you get when a hydraulic hose blows or a mechanical part breaks. It's not a solution for everyone and every project. But if you have longer lasting work and the occasional project coming in, there's pretty much no alternative. As always, pick wisely and don't do a gut decision.
Thanks for the informative video, Einar! I feel like talking to a historian. I might have missed it, but were you ever asked about EPA certification on the engine emission from customs?
Curious if after this process and cash-out cost, if you did this again, would you buy a kubota zero down, zero interest and use it until you were done and re sell it?
Watching this is just like watching Donut Media’s Chang Li import video, but with extra zeroes added to the end. Those taxes and fees are a killer, geez. Also, you should pin a comment with a link to the follow-up so more people see it
Dang! Its a small world i believe i delivered fill dirt for your driveway project. Im considering buying a machine from alibaba. Thanknyounfor the informative video!
This is a big ask but is there any chance you could share that google sheet? if not I understand but I'm considering going through the same process and would be great to not have to make on ehehe. TY. Regardless great video and I subbed
I might have deleted it. Here is a picture of it, which I embedded in the video. It will be more detailed. www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g4r3jk9yyc3kt45sq35dg/Excavator-Costs.png?rlkey=rg4ml8rnz5a0jdea2bk7s7yhe&st=ezwvxkpq&dl=0
You should have bought it with FOB price and used your own shipping agent, you would have spent half, in fact you could easily sell it like that and they are fine for what they cost, whoever says the brand etc. He doesn't understand a damn thing
Einar, this is a great video. I am close to purchasing one myself,though only a 1.2t. I have been budgeting $1k for the misc. fees, but that fuel surcharge fee you had took my breadth away. What part of the process was that $1,184 attributed to? Thanks!
Very easy to unintentionally flip these over😬! New ones sell for around 3500us - 4500us plus buyer fees at auctions in my area. I would buy one for occasional work around the property.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW Sorry. I don't share that but Google search would be a way to find such auctions. There's auction result websites that will list many auctions with results.
@@einarmikkelsenPNWI agree that price is cheap !! I’m in an expensive part of CA and see these locally new for between $6900-15,000. Of course I would save a lot not having to import it. I appreciate your honesty in the hidden prices, it makes me feel better about paying out 10K cash and not paying any taxes.
Ya i bought a forestry mulcher and i didnt know about getting a broker and paying extra fees and the doc fees and all that its crazy be nice if it can all be done threw one person or a better way and telling the person befor buying but they dont care
@@einarmikkelsenPNWThank you for posting this great informative video! I am considering one from RIPPA. The total is about $13,500. Is the 25% import tax applied to all imports from China to the US?
I have had to replace a few parts. Amazon for o-rings and a local supplier for other items. Everything is off the shelf. No parts that are John Deere only.
If there are these areas in the US where you can find a great deal on a excivator used or at local auctions it might be worth it to drive one back from say south carolina or Florida. Find the excavator on line and go pick it up. I doubt that the excavator police are going to check your machine out in the field to see if it is good to be used in your state as far as epa standards. You Dig!!!
You are not allowed to import one if it doesn't have an EPA certified engine. Mine is a Yanmar. Here in the Pacific northwest, there are no cheap excavators available. A drive diagonally across the country might be cheaper and faster than ordering from China, but it wasn't for me. I wanted that new excavator smell.
I need one for an extended period. I have so many projects that require an excavator. I looked into renting vs owning and would have spent about 10k renting. Plus, I have mad man points now!
I have since looked for Japanese companies to get around the import tax that was placed on China a few years back. What I found was that the majority of the large Japanese companies had their manufacturing in China, just like US companies are producing their phones, trucks, and much more outside the US.
I think that a lot of the import charges are USA specific..the USA does put heavy tariffs on some Chinese imports to protect their domestic market…but a lot of the smaller charges shown by the import agent were simply scamming. If you were a commercial groundwork’s contractor, where your machines are use all day, every day, by operators who don’t own the equipment..and don’t give a stuff..then buy a proprietary brand. If however you are a private buyer who wants a machine for your own use on your own property, going Chinese makes a lot of sense.. in Europe, a proprietary brand 2 ton excavator will cost a minimum of €30k….A Chinese 2 ton machine will cost less than half that ..imported. Also, the accessories, additional buckets, augers etc are a fraction of the price..So for non commercial, private use..the are fine..
Congrats ,I want to thank you for posting this video as a lot of people have learned from it .I am in the market also for a miniex but I see at auctions all over US for example a agrotk nt30 or nt45 which are a bit bigger than yours and go for even 11000$plus auction fees ,and are brand new 0 hrs.Were you not aware of it at the time ?Also I am also european but live in Texas and want to import a full container in houston with construction materials,the question is :the 25% is only for china imports?or from EU also?Thank you again
People seem to not understand bank wires. Seems like charges and holdups were caused by using card. Wires are easy and fast so best to learn about them.
Well i live in NZ & we use a lot of diggers here & the terrain here & what we do with them is brutal on them we kill diggers & a lot of japanese machines are used here hitachi ,jcb etc but honestly the best digger i have ever owned & ive had 2 of them a 5.5T & 6.5T is a IHI ,international harvester inc ,,made in the USA you guys make the best digger ever i'm telling ya IHI are incredible even an old totally worn beaten down out one still is compatible with some modern machines & in some cases better still ,lol ,they go forever ,so what i'm trying to say is an old worn out IHI half the size of that Chinese thing would still be better ,not sure what you got it to do but it will struggle & you will not be impressed unless you dig graves or something but honestly you would not even be able to bury a horse with that thing .I have looked at them as they are cheap & diggers here at the bottom of the world are expensive now if you look at the specs they rate their arm force at 10.4 KN & there digging force at 13.8 KN omg that is hideous that's not even equivalent to a digger half that size a 1.2 T like the specs on a 2.5T yanmar vio it's arm force is 26 KN & it's digging force is 34 KN ,,you have 10 & 13 you see what i'm saying they are useless for there size you would need a 5.5 T china machine to do the work of a 2.5 T japanese machine or IHI ..Digging graves at a cemetery is about the only thing i can think of that thing would be any good for .im a contractor & i do 1200 hours a year in my diggers & have done 35 years i've tried them all & IHI is it for me thank god for the good ole US of A & IHI ..If any one wants to see us kiwi's at work & see what we do with these small diggers & see what a good one is capable of can post a link of an awesome video of us at work putting one thru hell it's a crazy good video .
$17k but $26k in total for a Chinese mini digger? Are you out of your mind? You could’ve bought a Japanese slightly used mini digger where parts are readily available
America is a high cost country. Half the salary will go to pay accommodation and taxes. It’s like a $10,000 dog buys 2 $5,000 cat. Chinese equipments are for Chinese and rest of the world. Cheap and affordable.
the main issue with these units is the instability of the movement of the machine especially If you are working on slopes, they are easy to topple over because the belt and wheel span is too short. It is manageable for flat surface work but this is a serious design flaw, and if you even pay close attention to this video you will see the unit rock which the operator clearly picks up on and then drops the lower push shovel to stabilize the unit. Just consider hat if the demonstration is on a flat and solid surface and rocks back and fourth to that degree then how much worse will it be on any incline?? Caution is all I can say when considering to buy this but they do work well in terms of durability especially if you get a kobota engine. All in all the movement issue was a deal breaker for me
In the smaller sizes, I'd always buy a Yanmar before any of those you listed. Highest quality, highest spec of any 8 tons and under, and for the middle two, you're buying the name as well which doesn't earn any $
Once you made a contact with manufacturer, did you still need to deal with Alibaba ? yeah, you always need to pay to a customs broker, there no way you can do it yourself.
@@littlebrit It is in the top 500 most trafficked websites worldwide and is allabout international business. I don't know if they have business offices in other countries.
Am I reading the invoice correctly? Over $25,000 for a machine listed at $13,000😮! With all that hassle, I need to rethink the electric motorcycles. Thank you for the very informative description of the process.
That is correct. It started low, but I added a lot above the basic unit. As I live in the US, I needed an EPA certified engine. This is not true for everyone. I also added an auger motor and auger, a thumb, an enclosed cab and side swing. But, yes, those fees sucked!
26 grand for a mini excavator from China, or, pay like 10-12 grand for a decent condition, used piece of full sized equipment and put another 3-5 grand in it to make it run great. Would be nearly 10k less than the total cost to get this thing and it’s a full sized piece of equipment instead of this pebble picker lol
@@einarmikkelsenPNW There's nothing I won't consider. But it just doesn't make sense to me, why spend more on a much smaller machine just because it's new? To each their own, but I wouldn't do it.
@@charlesbrown4483 The machine size depends on the work it needs to do and also the customer's resources for moving it. Remember that a 5 ton or less machine can be legally moved on a 14k trailer behind an SRW 1 ton pickup. A ten ton cannot, so even if it cost less, if the customer needs to move it regularly, it has to be sized within his resources. So, I can understand why it wouldn't make sense to you if you haven't taken those sorts of factors into account. By the same token, there absolutely can be a logic to buying a used machine vs. new, a larger vs. smaller, this brand vs. that brand, etc.
@@frontagulus Well yeah. But this guy isn’t a professional operator so I’m going off the basis that he’s not going to be moving it often. And even if he does occasionally want to use it to do some work for other people, if they’re needing work done that badly they can use their own truck or pay for the transportation themselves. Not always like that but often times it is. And I didn’t say there wasn’t logic behind buying used vs new. In reference to this situation I said it’s more logical to buy something that’s bigger but used.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW I remember seeing Japanese tags on hydraulics on Cat hoes YEARS ago and a pal has a 490 Deere built by Hitachi years ago with the tag on the cab stating so so it's nothing new. And Yanmar is a FINE engine.
Ah, America.... the land of free market capitalism! Unless you want to import something, of course. Thanks for the video Einar. It is very informative and helps those of us in the market for one of these mini hoes to accurately compare pricing. I hope it works out great for you. It's just very disappointing how badly everyone involved in the shipping and registering treated you. Wow. Good luck with your project and I hope you enjoy the machine!
Thanks! I appreciate it. Yeah, a lot of fees. It has been great so far. I have about 15 hours on it by now, lifting heavy logs. I do have a small leak on top of the hydraulic tank, but I think it is as easy as unscrewing 8 bolts and replacing/fixing the gasket. No big deal.
@@DavidCaissy Thanks, David. Yes, it is hard, if not impossible, to figure out what you can expect from your local cargo handler. I just see a bunch of line items that make no sense to me. At least I am very happy with my purchase. A follow-up video coming very soon, possibly tomorrow.
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Unboxing of the same excavator - th-cam.com/video/5MI_PoRJMeg/w-d-xo.html
Sonits been a year roughly. How has the excavator held up buddy??
Also can you tell me the exact manusfaftor you.used and what attachments do you like best
@@eastatlantalandscapellc6053 it has been great. I have about 180 hour on it and no big issues. There is a follow-up video that is one of my last videos. I don't have the exact manufacturer here now but it is spelled out in the video you are commenting on.
Is that a dual pump with pilot controls?
Thanks for sharing your experience and hidden costs. Looking forward to seeing video of your machine.
Good news! The follow-up video is here :)
th-cam.com/video/5MI_PoRJMeg/w-d-xo.html
I own a 32 piece heavy equipment company, machines that range from 2T to 45T excavators, dozers and backhoes. Been at it for two decades. Four years ago, my company was engaged by two Chinese companies to use and review their mini (2.5T) and mid size (10T) excavators, I put three into use for six months. All of this in exchange for real world reviews.
I found that each were what I’d consider medium duty. Unlike major brands, I use Caterpillar almost exclusively, the power and pivot points of the Chinese machines were insufficient. Although the price of these units was a fourth of what the majors get, they were not able to do the same task. Wear and tear was an issue, the Chinese units required at least twice the upkeep.
So, you get what you pay for, as always. I alway recommend to the inexperienced to rent first. You’ll quickly and painlessly learn exactly the size and configuration of the machine you need. Then, you can do a cost breakdown. A majority of the time a person will quickly summarize that renting is the best option.
My conclusion on the Chinese units. They are over rated in digging force, stability and endurance. The engines and hydraulics are adequate but under heavy loads they don’t support the ratings. For light digging, they are fine. Hard soils, heavy boulders or stumps, not so. A comparable major brand will vastly out perform. I’d suspect we will see several of the Chinese units flood the market in the years to come, and they will eventually be sold used. That is where the cautious buyer will get the steep bargains without the shipping costs, delays and hassles.
Under rated comment
There is the name brands in China which would be equivalent to Caterpillar think Sany etc, these Alibaba brands are mostly just trading companies and their machines are not up to the task and you will be over-paying. A Chinese operator knowing the real price of these though he would never buy them would laugh.
I hope it will hold up to digging my ditches for Geothermal loops, French drains, and moving logs. So far, so good.
I agree. Very detailed and insightful.
So far so good, but I am only 25 hours of operation in.
Thanks for the full run down on costs. Good to know about all the other pieces/parts!
You bet!
This is an interesting perspective. Here in Florida, I could hit a few local auctions and get a banging deal on an excavator like that or larger. (or even shop the local used market). It is not unheard of in this area to score a piece of equipment with similar specs, or better than the chinese unit, for around $10,000.
All those taxes, unexpected fees, and paperwork would've been a test of my willpower lol.
where are you seeing these deals? I've looked and looked and I can't find anything under 30k that isn't beaten to heck
$10k would be amazing 🤩 I can't find anything close to that here in the Seattle area.
I see a lot of guys arguing the “you can find one local for less”, I’m in SC, and while this area has tons of construction happening, that also opens good deals on equipment.
Definitely won’t find one half the cost, but could possibly find one used, but a tad bigger, enclosed cab, etc for around the same price after all the “fine print” fees.
Those import brokers on our end are literally screwing people bc they know they can & there’s nothing anyone can do bc they’re a necessity to get your goods in.
Anyway, I like the idea of a new machine for the price, but damn that’s a lot of headache
@@themetalfusionologist I hadn't yet verified my account at the time i made that comment, so i think my replies were removed for that reason, but i found a machine local to NE FL for $10k with near identical specs to the one in this video, and it was a 2023 model. It's definitely regional, and its definitely rare. But it is entirely possible.
@@themetalfusionologist Thanks for your support. It was a long process, but I did enjoy learning something new.
I'm a licensed customs broker (LCB). Your forwarder was merciful. I usually charged $1,200 for a single entry bond, and his entry fee of only $140 was reasonable. That said, a third of his charges are what we called 'fillers', and explains why his entry fee was so bad.
If I had a half million I'd probably get my port license somewhere and start bringing these little guys in. With my own truck and a couple guys I could retail those excavators for about $20k.
Thank you for that insight. That would be a good business. I plan on buying a planet/moulder for all the wood that I am having milled these days. What would be the most efficient way of importing this while missing the fillers? The fuel surcharge was the worst.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW Sadly the fuel surcharge is beyond your ability to avoid. The best way to mitigate is if you had an FCL (full container load). Your excavator came LCL (less than container load) and that's why they dogpiled on you. The forwarder and their overseas agent contract with a steamship line for a full container and then fill it with lots of small loads. They likely have dozens or hundreds of containers like this every week. They get a discounted rate on that margin and make more profit by charging large fuel surcharges to each consolidator down the road.
If you want to do this going forward (not a one-off) your best bet is to find a freight forwarder, explain you're building a business, and start negotiating space on a regular basis. If you stay with one-off, you have limited options. Sorry.
@@LordFalconsword thank you so much for the detailed explanation.
@LordFalconsword thank you for all 5hat insight man, you'll get an imports partner soon
Ppl doing it already with the mini blue ones
Wow! What a process. I hope it is all worth it in the end. Thank you.
It was!
If you can unload yourself...ddp is usually cheaper..with ddp you know before your finish the order what your total cost will be. The only other fee you will need to pay with ddp, is generally the rental of a fork lift to unload your shipment..the con of ddp is that you need to pay in full before or when the product ships. It sounds like you did CIF. CiF is good because you have time to pay the duties and agents fees so that could give you another.30 days or more until you need to pay the 25% duty ..however as you learned you never know what the port is going to charge- they come up with new fees while you are waiting
I will keep this in mind when I buy a wood planing and molding machine in about a year.
I have looked a long time for this kind of useful information on TH-cam.
Thank you very much.
You are welcome. I am kist now releasing my 150 hour follow up. Make sure to watch it before you order.
Yeah with all the fees and stuff I think it would be better just to buy locally. I'm sure you get a lightly used Kubota with similar specifications for that amount of money or maybe even less.
It is hard to know all the costs right off the bat.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW Yeah for sure. I wouldn't have guessed that it would cost that much more on the back end
It actually arrived, incredible you are lucky!
I purchased from a company that had been in business for a long time.
I have been thinking of doing the same as for for a while but I was scared to order from china. Thank you for making such an informative video. This is very well put together. Gives me some more data points to order local or from china.
Are you interested in mini excavators? I am the supplier of the excavator in the video
Hello friend, have a good day, this is Denny the sales manager of Rippa, a professoional excavator manufacturer since 2014, we can supply many models excavator. Tell us what we can assist you.
@郭晓东 I'm thinking of purchasing one, I have order several things from ALIBABA, with really no issues when did my connect was awsome both times. BUT IM WORRIED about extra fees. Everything I order I get CIF CASH,INSURANCE, FRIEIGHT SO I just pay to my door. But never got something this heavy. Would love to talk. I want to purchase by end of year. Thx if can help
Glad I could help!
@@einarmikkelsenPNWso this was a diesel powered unit? What size engine? 3cyl? 23hp?
Surprised you didn't check all the import and tax costs before buying. That was the first thing I checked on. Huge increase in cost.
Good point.
The machine looks great, congrats on getting the right machine🎉
Thank you! Here is the unboxing video:
th-cam.com/video/5MI_PoRJMeg/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for answering the question. What does it really cost? Too much.
...or at least a lot more than the price listed.
Thanks for making us aware of all the hidden costs. I was interested in getting one of these but the extra cost makes it out of budget.
Glad I could help!
Thanks for this, 9k in junk fees on a 17500 purchase, or roughly 51% of the cost of the unit! That's pretty steep.
I agree!
Looks great. Thanks for sharing. That’s a great size and much better than the smaller cheaper ones. That’s a good price overall
Thanks for watching! I appreciate it
"the process was pretty straightforward" good god. you could probably start a business importing these things and handling all that. I wouldn't go near something like this. I have a hard enough time buying local things and having a successful outcome. Time is precious as well. My mind keeps wandering back to buying straight from china but in the end I always just go looking through the used machinery listings
It really wasn't that bad. The import paperwork was the worst.
Some people do have a business importing them and re-branding them
@@einarmikkelsenPNW Would you be interested in being a middle man for people looking to buy these equipment? Do all the import stuff, tack on a percentage for yourself, and let the buyer pick up the item at your yard?
Haha you said the process is straight forward. Straight forward for smart people with money. I’m not a smart people, nor do I have a lot of money.
Hahaha 🤣 It was cheaper than buying a new one here. Yes, the paperwork ended up being a lot, but I got there in the end.
It always comes as a shock to first time buyers on Alibaba about just how many hidden charges and taxes are involved in getting the product to them. You'd think shipping would be as easy as using a courier but there's about 20 different companies involved in one shipment and it's near impossible to coordinate unless you are a forwarding agent. It still all works out cheaper than buying domestic over all.
I wanted everyone to see the hidden fees.
26500 total cost . You could purchase a kubota u27 for less than 30k . And sell it for 25 to 30 in 5 years
With all those options? For that cost? Send me a link for delivery here in the Pacific northwest
What, where?!!
You can't even touch a U27 with 1500 hours on it, for < $34k
did you save any money at the end?
it seems to me that the final cost was close to buy directly here in the states.
I could get one that was about 10 years old. I am very happy with it.
Thanks for posting this Einar, it's great to have all the (inflated) fees exposed that are associated with importing products. Did you find any opportunity for negotiating the fees? Are there any that could be worked around or avoided using different tactics?
There were no opportunities to negotiate. However, the smallest fees for oversize shipment would have been avoided by not having the enclosed cab. Because it was too tall for one crate, it had to be removed and shipped separately.
I have heard that shipping to your door can work well. AND maybe avoid rip-off port fees. I'll be importing a 1T all electric lithium 15kwh mini soon. With 10 attachments runs about $9K in Shandong China. Wondering how much shipping customs and fees will run. Based on this fantastic video (thanks Einer!) I can realistically estimate 50% additional coming to $13.5k. Unfortunately haven't seen any electrics in USA yet. Seems pretty cutting edge still. But let's face it: fossil fuel engines with all their fluids and fumes can be a nightmare. I'll be contacting the port of Portland about door to door service.
@@oerssonhow far along are you in getting the electric version?
Any details to offer?
I'd love an electric one.
Thanks for putting this video up. Makes my decision easier!
You are welcome. If you haven't ordered yet, watch my last video about 150 hours of operations update. It includes things I wish I had asked for.
in Europe, I paid 27k for new kubota 1.9t, 3 hours on it.
Congrats! I hope you love it.
I see lots of brand new mini excavators on auctions here in California. People think they are getting a good deal while they still overpay.
How much do they go for?
The real issue is the depreciation of it which will be drastic. I would be curious to know the hours used at the end of the build and wonder if they would have been better off just renting as needed. Obviously renting has the issues of not having the exact time you need it but you don’t have to worry about breaking, storing it (long term) and maintenance.
I use it every week so rental is not an option for me b
Renting is great if you have a short, single project where you have a pretty good understanding of what's to be done and how long it takes.
On the other hand, if you own the machine, you're gonna find many uses for it where you would never consider renting due to cost and effort. Of course it depends a little on the machine type, but e.g. I own a backhoe loader. I'd never rent any large equipment for removing snow from my property for an hour every two weeks. But still it saves my back a couple times every winter and makes things possible. Or at this time of the year (northern Europe) there's not a lot of daylight to make use of, and it's getting worse. So removing tree stumps is pretty much one or two a day. I certainly won't rent a machine for two weeks just to have it sitting on my yard 23 hours a day and get charged like I'd use it around the clock.
With owning there's obviously a large upfront payment before you get to even use the machine, the ongoing maintenance fees, and all the headache you get when a hydraulic hose blows or a mechanical part breaks. It's not a solution for everyone and every project. But if you have longer lasting work and the occasional project coming in, there's pretty much no alternative.
As always, pick wisely and don't do a gut decision.
Thanks for the informative video, Einar! I feel like talking to a historian. I might have missed it, but were you ever asked about EPA certification on the engine emission from customs?
Yes, the certificate was required for the import documents.
Curious if after this process and cash-out cost, if you did this again, would you buy a kubota zero down, zero interest and use it until you were done and re sell it?
That could be a very good option. I will sell mine once I am done building the house and the garage. I'll let you know once I see the resell value :)
Watching this is just like watching Donut Media’s Chang Li import video, but with extra zeroes added to the end. Those taxes and fees are a killer, geez. Also, you should pin a comment with a link to the follow-up so more people see it
Good idea. I am new to TH-cam, so I appreciate the help.
Agrotic Industiries is now in USA Chicago $6000 warranty and part But unfortunately they dont make bigger mini ex
Got it
I thought the 25% import duty was aimed at chinese products. Since Yanmar is Japanese, were you able to exclude the cost of the engine from duty?
The 25% is for the Chinese market, but they can't take the price of the Japanese engine out of the total. That would have been nice.
A good cheap product but pay more tax and shipping vs a great used product but no shipping and less tax?
So many extra costs...
Thanks for this. I always wondered. Now I know it’s an awful experience and stupid costs involved to even get it to your door.
I wouldn't say all that. I enjoyed it. You just have to know what to expect and what to bring.
Thanks for the honesty,, that will take you far in life.
You bet
Dang! Its a small world i believe i delivered fill dirt for your driveway project. Im considering buying a machine from alibaba. Thanknyounfor the informative video!
That's awesome! I have a video shirt of when my driveway was spread. I am sure you were there just before that. Let me know if you have any questions.
if you have any excavator requirements,you can contact me. i will help you,i am a factory of excavator and forklift
i picked up a old 215 cat for 27 grand , half a hour away . 500 dollar to bring home it has gravel and landscaping bucket..
That is a good deal!
5 year old used minis go for about $5k in Seattle, name brand with support and available parts
Where? Send me to the place where I can buy those.
Ditto have not seen anything like that. But maybe I'm just ignorant. Please share your links!
Good infos !! Overall, how do you think you saved ?!!
This is a big ask but is there any chance you could share that google sheet? if not I understand but I'm considering going through the same process and would be great to not have to make on ehehe. TY. Regardless great video and I subbed
I will. I just have to find it. Give me some time.
I might have deleted it. Here is a picture of it, which I embedded in the video. It will be more detailed.
www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/g4r3jk9yyc3kt45sq35dg/Excavator-Costs.png?rlkey=rg4ml8rnz5a0jdea2bk7s7yhe&st=ezwvxkpq&dl=0
You should have bought it with FOB price and used your own shipping agent, you would have spent half, in fact you could easily sell it like that and they are fine for what they cost, whoever says the brand etc. He doesn't understand a damn thing
if you have any requirements,you can contact me. i will help you
how do you get parts for a machine like that ?
Most of them can be purchased locally. There are no custom parts that can't be obtained at the local farm supply store or auto supply store.
Einar, this is a great video. I am close to purchasing one myself,though only a 1.2t. I have been budgeting $1k for the misc. fees, but that fuel surcharge fee you had took my breadth away. What part of the process was that $1,184 attributed to? Thanks!
I have no idea what the fuel surcharge was all about. It was charged by Carotrans, which dealt with the handling here in Seattle.
On things like this you might want to figure about 50% over their price for shipping and duty/customs.
Next time request DDP sea freight shipping... Your life would have been so much easier
Thanks for the tip.
Sorry what's ddp?
Ddp??
@@oerssonDelivery Duties Paid, and it’s delivered straight to your door
@@oersson Delivery Duties Paid, and it’s delivered straight to your door
great video. thank you
Thank you
Very easy to unintentionally flip these over😬! New ones sell for around 3500us - 4500us plus buyer fees at auctions in my area. I would buy one for occasional work around the property.
Where do you live? I would buy more for that price!
@@einarmikkelsenPNW Sorry. I don't share that but Google search would be a way to find such auctions. There's auction result websites that will list many auctions with results.
@@einarmikkelsenPNWI agree that price is cheap !! I’m in an expensive part of CA and see these locally new for between $6900-15,000. Of course I would save a lot not having to import it. I appreciate your honesty in the hidden prices, it makes me feel better about paying out 10K cash and not paying any taxes.
@@ThirteenTwentyRepair We don't have any of these for those prices up here, or I would have jumped on it.
This is a 2.5. Larger than the typical cheap ones
Ya i bought a forestry mulcher and i didnt know about getting a broker and paying extra fees and the doc fees and all that its crazy be nice if it can all be done threw one person or a better way and telling the person befor buying but they dont care
Yes. I agree.
OUCH you could have got a good used on in the states for that price
True. Nice to have a brand new one, but the import tax of 25% was a killer.
Yes where you get hit is trying to get your stuff through US customs
@@einarmikkelsenPNWThank you for posting this great informative video! I am considering one from RIPPA. The total is about $13,500. Is the 25% import tax applied to all imports from China to the US?
@@chrs1212 YES
When did buying a used machine for the price of brand new start making sense?
Good luck finding parts
I have had to replace a few parts. Amazon for o-rings and a local supplier for other items. Everything is off the shelf. No parts that are John Deere only.
Divide all Chinese costs by 9 this is the exchange rate or $1.00 is equal to 9.00 for theirs.
Thanks
If there are these areas in the US where you can find a great deal on a excivator used or at local auctions it might be worth it to drive one back from say south carolina or Florida. Find the excavator on line and go pick it up. I doubt that the excavator police are going to check your machine out in the field to see if it is good to be used in your state as far as epa standards. You Dig!!!
You are not allowed to import one if it doesn't have an EPA certified engine. Mine is a Yanmar. Here in the Pacific northwest, there are no cheap excavators available. A drive diagonally across the country might be cheaper and faster than ordering from China, but it wasn't for me. I wanted that new excavator smell.
Yeah, I needed one for a big project, I just rented it. They delivered it to site and they picked it up when I was done. Had it the day I needed it.
I need one for an extended period. I have so many projects that require an excavator. I looked into renting vs owning and would have spent about 10k renting. Plus, I have mad man points now!
26k you can get a nice used bobcat for that wow
...or 26 weeks of rental. So many ways to go.
I think a similar size kubota is also about 26 grand.... I guess attachments are extra tho
Yeah
Good ol uncle Sam taxing us to death on other people's items
Yeah, it is to protect the domestic producers. Too complicated and deep for me :)
I have since looked for Japanese companies to get around the import tax that was placed on China a few years back. What I found was that the majority of the large Japanese companies had their manufacturing in China, just like US companies are producing their phones, trucks, and much more outside the US.
@@BrewingVikingprotecting American producers by gouging American consumers 🙄😄
Well, yes :) @@tracy419
Does it need to be EPA certified?
Yes, if you want it to be imported into the US, with an internal combustion engine
Very informative, will likely make decisions accordingly
You are welcome. If you haven't ordered yet, watch my last video about 150 hours of operations update. It includes things I wish I had asked for.
Neat video. 3 months, twice as much as the "sticker" price. Good to know!
Thanks for watching!
I think that a lot of the import charges are USA specific..the USA does put heavy tariffs on some Chinese imports to protect their domestic market…but a lot of the smaller charges shown by the import agent were simply scamming. If you were a commercial groundwork’s contractor, where your machines are use all day, every day, by operators who don’t own the equipment..and don’t give a stuff..then buy a proprietary brand. If however you are a private buyer who wants a machine for your own use on your own property, going Chinese makes a lot of sense.. in Europe, a proprietary brand 2 ton excavator will cost a minimum of €30k….A Chinese 2 ton machine will cost less than half that ..imported. Also, the accessories, additional buckets, augers etc are a fraction of the price..So for non commercial, private use..the are fine..
Thank you for your insight. Yes. Lots of us nonsense fees and taxes.
wow $150 shipping turned into $10k real fast.
Yeah! How does that happen?!
Holy crow. All those extra charges. That's pushing it into the Kubota range.
I know, right? I do have a Yanmar engine, so that makes me feel more secure in my purchase
Congrats ,I want to thank you for posting this video as a lot of people have learned from it .I am in the market also for a miniex but I see at auctions all over US for example a agrotk nt30 or nt45 which are a bit bigger than yours and go for even 11000$plus auction fees ,and are brand new 0 hrs.Were you not aware of it at the time ?Also I am also european but live in Texas and want to import a full container in houston with construction materials,the question is :the 25% is only for china imports?or from EU also?Thank you again
Thank you for the kind words. I believe it is a tax on China only. I haven't looked into what it is from Europe.
Was your shipping CIF or FOB? ... Thanks
Cif
People seem to not understand bank wires. Seems like charges and holdups were caused by using card. Wires are easy and fast so best to learn about them.
Card charges were less than 0.1%
Einar Mikkelsen sounds like a swedish name or northern european name, great video btw. Good choice with the yanmar engine.
Thanks. I was born and raised in Norway.
It would have made sense for you to contact a US distributor that's associated with Alibaba you will not have paid all that money
I just got mine delivered to my house
That is an excellent option
Well i live in NZ & we use a lot of diggers here & the terrain here & what we do with them is brutal on them we kill diggers & a lot of japanese machines are used here hitachi ,jcb etc but honestly the best digger i have ever owned & ive had 2 of them a 5.5T & 6.5T is a IHI ,international harvester inc ,,made in the USA you guys make the best digger ever i'm telling ya IHI are incredible even an old totally worn beaten down out one still is compatible with some modern machines & in some cases better still ,lol ,they go forever ,so what i'm trying to say is an old worn out IHI half the size of that Chinese thing would still be better ,not sure what you got it to do but it will struggle & you will not be impressed unless you dig graves or something but honestly you would not even be able to bury a horse with that thing .I have looked at them as they are cheap & diggers here at the bottom of the world are expensive now if you look at the specs they rate their arm force at 10.4 KN & there digging force at 13.8 KN omg that is hideous that's not even equivalent to a digger half that size a 1.2 T like the specs on a 2.5T yanmar vio it's arm force is 26 KN & it's digging force is 34 KN ,,you have 10 & 13 you see what i'm saying they are useless for there size you would need a 5.5 T china machine to do the work of a 2.5 T japanese machine or IHI ..Digging graves at a cemetery is about the only thing i can think of that thing would be any good for .im a contractor & i do 1200 hours a year in my diggers & have done 35 years i've tried them all & IHI is it for me thank god for the good ole US of A & IHI ..If any one wants to see us kiwi's at work & see what we do with these small diggers & see what a good one is capable of can post a link of an awesome video of us at work putting one thru hell it's a crazy good video .
Thanks for the awesome message. Post that link
if you have any excavator requirements,you can contact me. i will help you,i am a factory of excavator and forklift
What was the total cost from start to end?
It is spelled out, in an excel spreadsheet at the end of the ordering video:
th-cam.com/video/jfaxFafO8uc/w-d-xo.html
All in all, what’s your total? Also would you have to pay the import tax for each unit or just the container?
There is a spreadsheet towards the end of the video and shows the costs. The tax was based on the purchase price.
Same question I was wondering..
how did you get into contact with them, the communication etc ....?
Alibaba
that thing tiny it cost almost $20,000?
Over
What is the cost of a US based equivalent to this unit? He paid $26k what does one cost sourced locally?
About an additional $15k before taxes.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW $15k for a US based unit seems to me an obvious choice to go with a new one state side. Idk.
I would probably have done that if I ran a business with it. I am just messing around on my property.@@spineguy1553
That’s the same it cost me for a 25 horse kiote tractor with backhoe
Nice
$17k but $26k in total for a Chinese mini digger? Are you out of your mind? You could’ve bought a Japanese slightly used mini digger where parts are readily available
Send me a link. I don't have anything like it available here.
But the parts are super expensive! Time to change the market!
America is a high cost country.
Half the salary will go to pay accommodation and taxes.
It’s like a $10,000 dog buys 2 $5,000 cat.
Chinese equipments are for Chinese and rest of the world.
Cheap and affordable.
I am loving mine but the US fees were insane.
the main issue with these units is the instability of the movement of the machine especially If you are working on slopes, they are easy to topple over because the belt and wheel span is too short. It is manageable for flat surface work but this is a serious design flaw, and if you even pay close attention to this video you will see the unit rock which the operator clearly picks up on and then drops the lower push shovel to stabilize the unit. Just consider hat if the demonstration is on a flat and solid surface and rocks back and fourth to that degree then how much worse will it be on any incline?? Caution is all I can say when considering to buy this but they do work well in terms of durability especially if you get a kobota engine. All in all the movement issue was a deal breaker for me
Topple over like this?
th-cam.com/video/Qk86V8SqvSQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AgFoHVYMQ2I51emF
Mine came with an EPA certified Yanmar engine.
Hence some buyers are getting the units that have hydraulic track width extenders. I've seen those on quite a few models.
I am primarily using it on flat ground. You are right, they are too heavy and a full cab didn't help.
You are correct
Wait .. the shipping is only 150$!!
Oh no. The shipping to China was $150. Check out the spreadsheet for the charges beyond that, charged here in the US.
Hi, bro, thank you so much for your video. It is really interesting.
Glad you liked it
Hey boss! how you doing? i want to import to USA from China. Custom broker made the papers or you need to fill with chinese people?
I filled in most of them after sending emails with request for information from China
Turned out to be quite expensive. Could have bought a name brand for that price, not brand new, but almost new. At least here in Norway.
Det viste jeg ikke. Alt er jo så dyrt i Norge.
Way too much BS to go through for me.
...and that is why I made the video. It isn't for everyone.
The people who put up with this kinda ‘BS’ are millionaires
Think you overpayed for it id love to get me one some day
If you haven't ordered yet, watch my last video about 150 hours of operations update. It includes things I wish I had asked for.
Hitachi, Cat, John Deere or Komatsu. All others are substandard in the equipment world.
In the smaller sizes, I'd always buy a Yanmar before any of those you listed. Highest quality, highest spec of any 8 tons and under, and for the middle two, you're buying the name as well which doesn't earn any $
Ok
@@frontagulus yeah what would I know I only own 10 pieces of equipment from 12 ton exs to 824 loaders.
Hitachi makes JD, Mitsubishi makes CAT, I think
can you recommend a seller that wont scam me.. or advice on how to not get scammed
I looked for someone who had been in business for a while.
Once you made a contact with manufacturer, did you still need to deal with Alibaba ? yeah, you always need to pay to a customs broker, there no way you can do it yourself.
I went through Alibaba for the financing security.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW I see. Does it work overseas ? Do they have office in your country to deal with claims?
@@littlebrit It is in the top 500 most trafficked websites worldwide and is allabout international business. I don't know if they have business offices in other countries.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW Thank you for explaining!
Am I reading the invoice correctly? Over $25,000 for a machine listed at $13,000😮! With all that hassle, I need to rethink the electric motorcycles.
Thank you for the very informative description of the process.
That is correct. It started low, but I added a lot above the basic unit. As I live in the US, I needed an EPA certified engine. This is not true for everyone. I also added an auger motor and auger, a thumb, an enclosed cab and side swing. But, yes, those fees sucked!
26 grand for a mini excavator from China, or, pay like 10-12 grand for a decent condition, used piece of full sized equipment and put another 3-5 grand in it to make it run great. Would be nearly 10k less than the total cost to get this thing and it’s a full sized piece of equipment instead of this pebble picker lol
Lots of options out there. I wanted to show everyone the actual, final cost vs the listed. Wouldn't you also consider a brand new one for $14k?
@@einarmikkelsenPNW There's nothing I won't consider. But it just doesn't make sense to me, why spend more on a much smaller machine just because it's new? To each their own, but I wouldn't do it.
@@charlesbrown4483 The machine size depends on the work it needs to do and also the customer's resources for moving it. Remember that a 5 ton or less machine can be legally moved on a 14k trailer behind an SRW 1 ton pickup. A ten ton cannot, so even if it cost less, if the customer needs to move it regularly, it has to be sized within his resources. So, I can understand why it wouldn't make sense to you if you haven't taken those sorts of factors into account. By the same token, there absolutely can be a logic to buying a used machine vs. new, a larger vs. smaller, this brand vs. that brand, etc.
@@frontagulus Well yeah. But this guy isn’t a professional operator so I’m going off the basis that he’s not going to be moving it often. And even if he does occasionally want to use it to do some work for other people, if they’re needing work done that badly they can use their own truck or pay for the transportation themselves. Not always like that but often times it is. And I didn’t say there wasn’t logic behind buying used vs new. In reference to this situation I said it’s more logical to buy something that’s bigger but used.
Could have literally got a nice used one for that price here in the US, and it would have been more reliable and better availability for parts
I was unable to locate a new one for that price.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW I said *Used
@@bored2death4404 Got it. That is not what I wanted.
For that kind of money you could have got a quality Yanmar or other name brand right here in the US.
Not in my region, and it comes with a Yanmar engine.
You could have bought a used excavator at Valley Equipment in Algona for less and they deliver!!
I love the new excavator smell
No way! I'll buy a used kunota for same price and have parts and dealer support
Ok. Thanks.
$26,500? Wow.
You could have just bought a Kubota or John Deere
With all the upgrades, yes. Import taxes suck!
So basiclly you paid more for a low quality machine when with some research you could have bought a niver machine even if you had to travell some.
That could be accurate. Not sure exactly. This one seems very good so far, and brand new. The Yanmar engine is a huge +
Also, here is a follow up video:
th-cam.com/video/5MI_PoRJMeg/w-d-xo.html
It has a Yanmar engine, and that's the critical component. The Chinese are also using high quality hydraulic components and pumps.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW I remember seeing Japanese tags on hydraulics on Cat hoes YEARS ago and a pal has a 490 Deere built by Hitachi years ago with the tag on the cab stating so so it's nothing new. And Yanmar is a FINE engine.
CAT and JD don’t make mini’s
26k for little chines digger bit over price after all, but good education video, now is about how long this thing will last :D
It looked good at $17k. Let's see how long it lasts.
Ah, America.... the land of free market capitalism! Unless you want to import something, of course.
Thanks for the video Einar. It is very informative and helps those of us in the market for one of these mini hoes to accurately compare pricing. I hope it works out great for you. It's just very disappointing how badly everyone involved in the shipping and registering treated you. Wow.
Good luck with your project and I hope you enjoy the machine!
Thanks! I appreciate it. Yeah, a lot of fees. It has been great so far. I have about 15 hours on it by now, lifting heavy logs. I do have a small leak on top of the hydraulic tank, but I think it is as easy as unscrewing 8 bolts and replacing/fixing the gasket. No big deal.
Blimey! In the UK you could buy a real brand excavator brand new for that or less!
Nice!
BS
@@denslod2930 how?
@@markjarvis9780 KUBOTA KX027-4 is $40,000 in UK, you may find one a little cheaper
Couldn't you have bought a 3t machine in the US for less than $20,000.00 from Agrotec?
I don't know. Too late now 😞
@@einarmikkelsenPNW The original price looked quite attractive, so I understand why you ordered one. Thanks for sharing your experience with us!
@@DavidCaissy Thanks, David. Yes, it is hard, if not impossible, to figure out what you can expect from your local cargo handler. I just see a bunch of line items that make no sense to me. At least I am very happy with my purchase. A follow-up video coming very soon, possibly tomorrow.
@@einarmikkelsenPNW If you're happy with your purchase, then you did the right thing! Looking forward to see it in action :)
Thanks for posting your experience.
I'm in Bothell, can I call you, or meet you I have some questions.
Sounds good.