Paul will probably be happy that people talk about his products. I am sure that most of his customers who spent thousands of dollars on such devices will hear the difference. Maybe they are the only people who hear it and maybe it's only in their imagination. But that a lot better than admitting you wasted thousands of dollars.
namzarf Yes, and he should. He knows damn well that his snake oil gimmicks are a ripoff. Paul is recommending his expensive snake oil power cord to clean the power going into his power cleaner, WTF? What's the next scam? Telling gullible audiophiles that they need a $2000 roll of PS audio 14/2 lumex to clean the power back to the breaker panel. PS audio audiophile power poles, transmission lines, power stations...........Where does the lunacy end?
Yes, I appreciate the negative reviews, since they stop people from spending money on poorly-designed products. Other PS Audio products appear to be well-designed, based on the lab tests I've seen, but apparently not the power regenerators. That's embarrassing for Paul, since the PowerPlant is how he made his name.
@@BruceCross what lab tested the equipment? PS audio labs? and like you said the power plant is how he made his name? a $5000 box of snake oil? that means his name is mud. when i use to every once in a while see an obscure video title and click on it to see what it was about and then see paul on it i use to think to myself "this guy again?" nah. because everytime i've ever watched one i knew he was wrong about stuff. sucks some people buy into that kind of stuff from people like him and don't do further research into the topics on their own.
@@XX-121 I'm referring to John Atkinson's measurements of PS Audio products for "Stereophile." His careful measurements are one of the few redeeming qualities of the magazine.
@@Asgoodasachange if i had $4000 i'd rather spend that on better amp and speakers that's gonna give me better sound than blow it on a glorified power strip that does absolutely nothing. but that's just me personally, you do you.
Amir has been giving the most objective reviews. There are so many review channels but all I hear are "this is maybe the best ... in 2022", "there is a little bit of coloration but I like ...", "voicing is superb", and "this system is excellent for album A from the 70s" craps. At least we consumers and some audiophiles need transparent + objective reviews. If they'd profit from sponsors and what not, they better show us some spectral analysis, use the same reference recordings, and avoid using too much euphemism because it's confusing. Thank you Amir for such valuable reviews.
Almost all of the hi-fi "review" industry are really paid shills and true believers. The Opus codec used by TH-cam can't be reliably ABXed from loseless down to 128kbps, yet somehow these guys can tell how much better their equipmment sounds becomes just by changing fuses.
Thank you once again for the highly valuable, public service that you perform for all of us at no cost to us Amir. You are a modern day hero, fine sir. Merry Christmas and a very Happy and healthy New Year to you Amir. Fred
@@AudioScienceReview You deserve it. I also believe PS Audio ultimately will benefit from honest reviews giving them feedback of your kind. I like to admire Paul for his genuine desire to make great sounding products through American engineering but no company will succeed without some "feedback loops" and in the audiophile business, people within a company often get stuck with some falsehood of opinion. Do staff at Nordost genuinely believe that their cables sound better after burn-in? I wouldn't be surprised if they do and what they put on their website is likely not intentional lies, even you and I know it's complete bogus and such claim easily could be disproved in a null-test or blind-test.
@@ThinkingBetter Production and mastering is better to “measure” (if possible) than decoding hardware like a dac. Most music production is being overproduced, over-compressed that “debunking” consumer gear is somewhat a moot point. The blind tests really don’t work unless you are trained sound engineer that can “hear” a mix. If the mix was well mastered it SHOULD sound great on any dac or crappy portable device. Only then can a system sound “revealing” and measurement matter but if you have like 99% of all music being mixed and mastered for streaming services with all kinds of “perfect” DAW plug-ins like audio tune and perfect tempos. Only 1% or less music production is being done for the “audiophile” community. It’s a bigger issue that what ASR does.
Thats pretty embarrassing from PS Audio. The fact that they can't even afford to test their own gear is really disgraceful, especially at their pricepoints.. This is definitely just a cash-in unfortunately, hopefully one day they will design something that is of worth, when it comes to power. Great review, more like this please.
It has nothing at all to do with not affording the testing. They can afford all the testing in the world. Like so many other companies out there today in the high-end audio space (and there are literally thousands of them) they don't WANT to do any testing. They simply want you to take it on face value/take their word for it, that their products do what they claim. Well, what Amir has demonstrated now for the world, time and time again, is that these companies DON'T actually live up to their billing with the products that they produce. They don't want you looking at test results because that would reveal the differences between what they are CLAIMING and what they are actually providing. That needs to change. We need to start holding these companies' collective feet to the fire and demand that they provide TESTING and MEASUREMENTS themselves that substantiate their marketing claims when selling these types of products. We need to let these companies know that we are no longer going to just "take their word for it". The new customer mantra to ALL companies in the A/V space needs to be spoken with one resounding, unified voice: PROVE IT!
You really have to question the ethics and professionalism of a company sellling products like this. The person who designed it is, no doubt, an experienced audio engineer who would be well capable of running the sorts of tests that Amir has. If they did the tests they would soon see the product is worthless. If they didn't do the tests, shame on them.
Paul and his team are legit audio engineers and I'm sure they know what Amir told us in his reviews. The thing is Paul and his team are not just "audio engineers" anymore, they are an audiophile company and as any other companies/corporations.... They must prioritize profits first and foremost. Before ASR Paul created himself a good reputation for being the "half-truth" audio engineer/audiophile veteran. It means that he does not always seem to agree with audiophile concepts, plus he actively shares his engineering experience/knowledge to the community. So over the time alot of folks started to have great faith in him, to the point of not needing to double-check his statements. I must say he's quite great as a businessman and influencer. Edit: I should mention that there's also a possibility he is fully believing in "experiences that cannot be measured". I've read that some other reputable audio engineers and sound experts that are not snakeoil sellers at all and they also think it's possible we haven't discovered everything yet.
@@Douglas_Blake I am already aware of that, I don't think it is the core issue, it is rather his choice to cater his audiophile consumers that allowed him to make products this mediocre while being able to sell for very high prices.
Paul is so far down the rabbit hole he fell off the earth years back. I find it a worry how many people trust the guy due to his calming voice and his ability to pretend he's not selling you anything. The guys obsession with DSD borders on the pathological. Guys and companies like that need calling out for sure.
From an engineering and mathematical point-of-view DSD is the best commercially available storage solution there is. Period. Sorry. But the rest of your comment is spot-on.
@@silva_579 There are many members of the ASR community who dislike DSD and frequently criticize it on the website, including Amir himself, who has made several videos on the subject. Some of these individuals may be followers of Amir or "disciples" of his views. Amir has now made 5 videos on Paul and his company PS Audio. Clickbait??
thing is, people in the know can smell his bull sh!d a mile away. i guess the problem is, more and more people, especially these days, don't even know right from left.
@@christophero1969 if you say so. really DXD is, being DSD has to be converted to it anyway to be manipulated or mastered. heck just look into some of the releases that have been analyzed on this channel in just about every instance you'd be better off with standard Hi-Res if even that. you're just wasting hard drive space and cd audio actually sound magnificent (to me) as long as they're properly mastered, that and the fact that the only thing SACD's really got going for it is the multi-channel
Why don't I ever have these problems? My equipment is vintage mid fi. Oh I'll bet it's not resolving enough. It's so unresolving it only plays the music.
I cannot thank you enough for your empirical data and objective take. This review is eye-opening. Please, don't apologize about being real / honest, especially since you're coming from such an objective angle. Thanks again boss!
Paul is now saying you need to buy two of his power plants for your hifi. One for your sources and another one for your power amps. He said your power amps are hungry for power and will disturb the power from the power plant going to your sources hence you need another seperate power plant for your sources. Yet more electricity wasted.
I'm not a fan of adding power supplies to existing power supplies. Better to spend your money on something that has a descent power supply built in. And in any case, where do you stop. Do you add another power supply to the one you've already added? Would that be twice as good, or worse as the case my be. I just love this guys reviews. If your selling us something to improve our systems at least tell us why in works. And it was suggested that adding a better/more expensive power cable would further improves things. Unbelievable. The human brain is so easily fooled.
Haven't read a review, but i already know what they'll say! Same platitudes they've used for ages. Black background, calmness, crispy tops etc etc. 5/5! Would you like a complementary full-page ad? That would boost sales!
Manufacturers should really be careful, why make a product which will make consumers lose respect for your brand. People do not mind giving you profit margin but at least provide products that have merit and value.
I agree. I think it's almost funny when Paul from PS Audio presents his systems with huge amplifiers and huge power generators. That always brings up the question: Did your engineers design your amplifier (internal) power supplies so bad that they need power generators before the AC input? And if those power amplifiers have great quality build in power supplies, why do you use power generators in front of them? Somehow this just doesn't add up.
@@edgar9651 I think that the analogy is the same as for the general concept of separates. Why are there preamps and amps when we can build an integrated amplifier which contains both? The reason is simple: specialisation, separation of concerns and more available real estate. So, the point is not why do we need a regenerator between mains and electronics. The question is rather why this regenerator does not do its job better than the smaller and simpler ones contained inside each electronic connected to it. Honestly I think that we'd be better off producing electronics having only DC inputs and separated specialized power plants with DC outputs for the electronics. The whole concept of turning AC into DC for producing again an (allegedly cleaner) AC sinewave for the electronics, which then turn it again into DC, is pointless
I just said it in one of your p12 review test. Thank you Amir for shinning the light on people who are taking our money and not delivering on design promises. I will add this... PS Audio sells nothing but the industry standard snake oil for many years. You have made a loyal follower out of me. The only way to stop people like ps audio is to stop buying their products when they don't measure up to marketing pitch. See how quick things will change.
I'm really hoping that the rise if sites like ASR will push ALL of these high-end audio companies to start producing and publishing their OWN test/measurement results on their products. NO MORE UNSUBSTANTIATED MARKETING CLAIMS! We need to start holding ALL of these companies accountable going forward. From now on, they need to either PUT UP or SHUT UP! Yeah, we get that only your ear can make the final call as to whether or not a product has a positive impact on overall sound quality, that much goes without saying. In the meantime, it STILL important and valuable to see and review valid testing and measurement results. Every single company in the high-end audio space now needs to understand this - and customers need to start demanding it - BEFORE they spend THOUSANDS of their hard-earned dollars. It's time for the world (of high-end audio) to change.
Nice review. For more subscribers I recommend you turn on the narcissist switch to max volume, talk 10 times louder, and encourage viewers to go to your store and buy all the avaible snake oil. :) Seriously, I appreciate your approach in your reviews and the quantifiable data that support.
Why did they put NEMA 5-20 Sockets on here if this thing can only ever output 300 watts continuously and 1000 watts at peak? That seems optimistic at best.
Nice and clear review. Would like to see more of this on amplifiers and turntables. TH-cam is filled with hype and glorification "reviews" that is more marketing. The need for more concise and honest reviews is much needed in audio and homecinema.
I think, the manufacturers of this kind of audio gear produce something far more valuable than diminished distortion or increased dynamics. Everybody knows that those are jobs for electronic devices that don't require rocket science and can be built for reasonable amounts of money. The hifi manufacturers sell you the confirmation that you are special. Your system is so good, your knowledge is this comprehensive and your ears are so sensitive that you can hear the finest differences in sound and rise far above the average Joe, who ist unfortunately to dull to experience these refined joys. It's the same with wines, whiskies etc. For someone with disposable income, isn't buying self worth for a couple thousand dollars a good investment?
This one is snake oil but I bought a fat, far cheaper Tacima mains conditioner recommended by another TH-cam channel, a British Audiophile, that I swear made a considerable improvement to my setup! In particular, it lowered the background noise level so I was able to hear delicate notes dying away much better (I like classical. It’s possible this is irrelevant with pop.) I’ve watched maybe dozens of Paul’s videos and he comes over as just a salesman for 90% of the time but that other 10% of genuine knowledge and experience keeps me coming back.
So 90% of the time he's a salesman to you, right? Id say that means the other 10% of the time he's a SUCCESSFUL salesmen. The dude is playing a character. A friendly old uncle who just loves some good tunes. Hes not always selling something, right? Just sitting down and real talking about gear, how it works, the basics. Real polite, friendly to newbies, wouldn't hurt a fly. 🤔 I'm sure that's not intentionally misleading of his actual character and actions, right? right..
Great work as always. The less of these ineffective and pointless products that people buy the better. Maybe then these manufacturers will get the message when people stop falling for the BS.
It's not only PS Audio. All manufacturers of such devises produce kit that does nothing. It looks nice. But does nothing. Spend as much as you can afford on the components that matter...amps, DACs , speakers etc etc.
i think after like 10 years the creators of PS audio will come up and say "We are a BS company and we are laughing our asses of to you buying and advocating our products for 20 years... you idiots you got pranked" and spent rest of their days on bahama spending their PS audio money from a swiss bank... If its not the plan, consider it.
Great review! Now I do notice that your Raw AC is relatively clean and with good voltage I would love to see a comparison when the incoming voltage is let’s say 10% from nominal to see if there is any difference that way. I myself at my house during the summer times is not rare were the voltage would be as low as 104 volts, and since we run a small business when the printer would run the voltage would drop to as low as 99 volts. Which is why I got a Tripp Lite double conversion ups for my theater room in order to protect my equipment it always keeps the voltage at 120.5 volts. I don’t really have a comparison with Raw Ac because the equipment has been connected to the UPS since day one and wouldn’t dare plugging it in to the raw ac if it always sounded amazing on the UPS, but I would imagine that since the amplifiers are of the linear type the low voltage would surely degrade their performance. Which is why I think would be interesting to see if there is a performance difference when the raw ac is much lower than nominal.
I agree my raw AC looked pretty good in this instance. In previous tests, it has shown more distortion. I have actually done one better than what you suggest though: my lab AC regen can create highly distorted waveforms. I have fed that to audio equipment with zero impact. Please see it here: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/impact-of-ac-distortion-noise-on-audio-equipment.25501/
@@AudioScienceReview that’s great to see it seems like audio equipment have very good filtration agains ac noise and distortion, but I’m also interested in is if low voltage conditions affect their performance I’m sure if it has a switching power supply it shouldn’t affect anything since those are mostly world devices designed to work on 100 up to 240v but what about linear supplies I’m sure they have voltage regulation to some point but how would they work if the voltage was lower than 10% nominal I’ve seen some amps that might go into protect mode if the voltage was too low which was the primary reason I got the Double Conversion UPS hahaha since there are times that the voltage does go lower than 10% nominal I didn’t want that problem. If worst comes to worst where voltage doesn’t really affect audio equipment at least it can serve in the event of a power blip or power outage were I can safely turn of the equipment without harming them hahahah. Thank you for your response!
dude if you're voltage is going down that low you need to contact your power company. let me guess it's dropping hz too right? i really have a hard time believing you.
@@XX-121 I never said anything about an Air Conditioner though it might be the problem that’s because in my City during the summer time it’s not uncommon for the temps to be on triple digits so everyone is off course running their A/Cs hearts off. I did actually call and when they sent someone they said that everything was normal the low voltage was actually caused because during times of very heavy power usage the electric company themselves reduce the voltage by 10 volts to 110v instead of 120v in order to reduce the load on their equipment which in turn reduces power outages due to overloading of the grid the lower voltage to 104 is therefore cause from the high load since the voltage has already been reduced to 110 so instead of dropping to 114v (which would be totally normal) the voltage would drop to 104v. The frequency remains normal at 60hz no problems there. During the cooler months most people rely on gas furnaces and no ac which means the grid doesn’t really get overwhelmed therefore no voltage reduction so the voltages are way more stable and only drop to about 118v during the day to up to 125v during the night so the power problems are only during the warm months.
@@AudioScienceReview You said : " Your audio gear simply doesn't care how "clean" the AC is" ... Well , I'm confidence in your honesty and professionally tests and results, That is not the issue. The issue is that I'm amazed every time that lots of famous Audio companies selling unnecessary products and even publish nonsense. Wish I could go back in time and consult with you before buying ... Thank you for great tests and videos ! that webpage link is added to my Safari's Favorite website ...
I have watched about 10 of your videos the last 2 days and I have to say I’m blown away!!!!! Would it be possible to test any Furman power conditioner + regulator for all of us musicians with home music studios? Wish you happy new year ;)
Amir is an almost solitary voice on the objective science of electrical engineering relating to audio. Although Paul McGowan and other high end electronics “gurus”maybe perfectly nice guys that shouldn’t disguise the fact that the majority of high end equipment is grossly overpriced and is almost always bettered in measurements by components costing considerably less. The super expensive equipment is often very cool to look at and is very solidly built but how relevant is that if it has measurable sub par performance. Of course the gifted ones with the “golden ears “ will berate you over not hearing the difference but that is merely a cheap ploy to distract from the paucity of their argument. I just wish there were more videos from Audio science review
Great review! thank you. Being a Journeyman Electrician for many years, and a audiophile, this just reaffirms my view on the power (AC) products for HiFi. Power cables make me crazy. 50 miles of provider service conductors, hundreds of splices, fuses, aluminum and other metal wire, but the last 3 feet of $6000 unobtainium power cable makes a big difference....?? Power conditioner/regenerators systems can be very capable for some industry's, hospitals ect with highly sensitive equipment, large computer installations and so on.. does that matter or benefit HiFi? at home? The .0001% ? or as you have shown, worse. Well engineered and manufactured products such as DAC's, Pre amps, Amplifiers, Sources, Speaker set up, and the room which it all lives has the most impact and matters IMO. In any event, if it makes a person feel better, believes it makes a difference, it is their choice. Choice is what it is all about. Thanks again Amir!
Thanks for the nice comments. Yes, if something makes people feel good, it is fine to use it. They just shouldn't expect improvement in audio. What makes great audio devices great is the fact that they have great filtering of power supply output. Once there, any other attempt is futile.
Hello fellow Electrician, I think pretty much the same way. Don't get me started on audiophile headphone cables. Amir's money quote was in the last sentence: "Every audio device you have assume AC is dirty"
Another fascinating video as always and I've started exploring your interesting website and forums more recently. What do you think about using UPSs on our hifi equipment? I've a couple that were unwanted from work sat at the bottom of a cupboard. The way it was explained to me is that they feed connected equipment from the battery slicing the DC back into AC. Would that be any more reliable than units with filters like this or just as likely to add noise?
I don't use UPS on any audio gear other than my Windows PC which is my music server (and NAS). I do plan to do more investigation of quality of AC coming out of UPS devices. I expect the pure sine wave ones to be good but again, it won't make a difference to your audio gear because it doesn't need or expect clean power.
@@AudioScienceReview that will be another set of measurements I'll enjoy seeing. But yes as you say and have shown, our connected equipment can handle imperfect mains. That's very reassuring for us all to know. I suppose the benefits of a UPS could be keeping your kit running those times when the lights might flicker and surge protection.
@@AudioScienceReview Hey Amir why hasn’t your friends over at Microsoft done anything with the HDCD encoder? I’d love to get my hands on the peak extension, dithering and transient algorithms for the HDCD encoders they would be really useful in combating the loudness wars. Hook at brother up. Thanks
Amir , just some information, I have also Apx555 like yours. I notice USB connection from PC to AP and DUT could make huge difference in ground loops , I use isolation transformer 4KW , to connect all to it , AP , PC , DUT . No common mode. One things you can try to use galvanic isolated USB , that lift ( disconnect) PC chassis from AP and DUT. Try it you will get surprise of result.
Good review as always, with an expected result shame on companies that sell these quack products. 300 watts this would not run my amp! this is basically a UPS without the battery.
Hi Amir, I found this really interesting, thank you. So far, I have only experimented with a Balanced Mains Unit. As I understand it, this is a passive device which relies on a large transformer to split the mains input into the two separate parts of the sine wave, positive and negative, and puts them 180 degrees out of phase. On adding them back together (not sure where this takes place, or how!), any distortion (positive) to both parts of the pure sine wave is cancelled out as the two halves of the spike, for instance, then become out of phase. How would the downstream device, such as a power amp, be affected? Would it suffer the same or similar degradation as you have discussed in the PS Audio process, which I can see is doing a lot more than does the BMU I have described? By the way, the sound was superficially more impressive, especially in the bass, but it was a budget device and hummed terribly anyway, thus ruling itself out!
He did debate my testing of PowerPlant 15. Didn't work out well for them. :) His own understanding of his product was wrong as I showed how it limited current to amplifiers and such.
So many dumb things on this product, 20A duplexes, fed by 15A line cord is violation....where is the UL or ETL anything to show it passed any standard tests for safety and performance?
Thanks Amir for another great video. What make & model surge suppressor/line conditioner do you use & recommend? You said in this video that you use one that cost $2,500.00. I currently have a Furman Elite 15 Power Factor i (PFi) I was wondering if what you are using would be a significant upgrade over my Furman? Thanks for being the voice of reason, backed by scientific data in this nutty world of hifi.
Nothing that you would plug in. The only effect surge protection device would sit at our breaker box or utility meter. There, it has access to low impedance ground which is what you need to deal with surges. Power company in US installs them at the meter at very reasonable costs (mine was just $350). Point of use surge protectors can actually dump surges into the ground and have it then travel to all the other devices in the house! So they can do more harm than good. Finally, your home owner's insurance in US usually covers lightning damage and such.
Hello Amir. Many of your measurements show peaks of different frequencies, indeed if listened to separately they are out of the audible range. However you seem to forget that they add to what is in the signal and thus affect the overall frequency perception, don't you? Please show us sometime the output signal with noise added, will it be the same? Overall good job thanks for your work. PS This relates to other tests that show the distortion impact to what one can hear.
Still no. See how I simulated 18% distortion on AC and it still made no difference: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/impact-of-ac-distortion-noise-on-audio-equipment.25501/
Two legit reasons to utilize a "power product"; 1.) Lower noise 2.) Lower impedance ¹Star, or common point grounding for equipment, some 𝙚𝙛𝙛𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙞𝙫𝙚 approach to 𝙖𝙥𝙥𝙧𝙚𝙘𝙞𝙖𝙗𝙡𝙚 power quality improvements, via isolation, or regen, etc. ²Low impedance delivery of high current demands with stiff voltage, ... free from I²R heat loss/voltage drop. It's simple, mains either gets in the way or not. Right? Thoughts? (I point it out often, but rarely does one encounter mention of the latter, low impedance)
Lol, a cheap 300w UPS without the battery. Would be very interesting to see what's inside, two mosfets incapable of continuous operation? Horrible modified wave only output when incoming AC goes out of spec?
Before you got into the review I was thinking ‘ why use an IEC male inlet but not female outlets’? (Like on your average small UPS). They’d need different inventory for different countries! The only reason I can think of is the absence of overpriced audiophile f-m IEC cables. For the price they sell these for I’m sure the budget could stretch to a few leads. Speaking of UPS, the line interactive 2005 vintage APC UPS I have in my rack does basically the same thing as this, can run for hours off batteries, and cost me all of $100 second hand. I’ve seen them in concert touring setups powering dante stage I/O boxes. If its good enough for your favourite touring artists… I’d be curious to see you put one on the bench. Perhaps you should invest a few bucks in a current transformer/shunt so you can look at the current waveforms too.
One more attempt and error, it is quite one of the most initiatives in the scientific community in the search for solutions. Amir another excellent cause/effect demonstrated by your knowledge and applied scientific method. great Video.
1 question - how bad was AC and shouldn’t (controlled) bad AC be used in a first place for a test of an equipment that only makes sense with bad AC? Perhaps one could use your lab AC generator to mess it up? Even an odd swim ring is rather not helpful to someone who is not in the water or a is a good swimmer anyway. ;)
Why not using batteries... I'm off grid and it's easier for me to work with DC. I'm building a small 36V LiFePo4 pack of cells to drive my amplifier (fosi audio) and dac, I'm cheap audiophile... if I can say, it's not my main passion but I enjoy nice music and nature sounds. Those small amplifiers are DC and it's so convenient to me... I do not have to run my inverter to power them and those class D also use far less energy... which mean more music per chunk of sun power... 😊
Well done mate buying some good smps 300w+Taiwan make some good ones, You can connect the battery after the first stage and adjust the buck converter feedback resistor to the output you want You could just feed it 12 volts
Would it be possible to consider that both Amir's testing and PS audio reason for building this device are well founded? If your mains only put out 98 volts and the unit brings it back to a steady 120 volts, you will hear a difference through your audio gear. This is not mentioned in the test and yet this is one of the purposes of such a unit. Amir does not question the quality of the mains whereas PS audio does. Amir and PS audio do not ask themselves the same questions therefore their points of view and design goals will be different. It is more constructive to learn more about each other as people than to continue playing the "I am right, you are wrong" game, which at the end of day only brings more disasters to our world through ongoing misunderstandings.
@Darth Ciucciet me guess: he is doing his single component, single test tone (1kHz) tests, and concludes “no difference whatsoever”, while potential customers may have their PV-System installed, with ugly effects on their net voltage and - most relevant - notably degraded sound of their sensitive system and listening experience and possibly convinced (or not) after a few days home trial. for those who see their PV issue fixed with the PS device what would be the news ASR can bring to the table? Also I do not see, as stated elsewhere, a “service to the public” to those who have no issue with their system in a first place, and secondly are not even considering buying any 100€ passive power filter to fix any problems they do not have.
absolutely! I add, those devices get their justification from improving perceived sound quality when they system is compromised by power grid issues (think of photo voltaic system and not so well filtered power electronics), which I suppose were not varied or controlled in the test.
@Darth CiucciHas he looked at everyone of PS audio claims? "In the process of regeneration, any problems commonly found on your power line, such as low voltage, distorted waveforms, sagging power, flat-topping, and noise are eliminated". Unless I missed something, it seems to me that Amir main focus was noise only, also dropping the measurement voltages by a factor of 100 is not really sticking to reality.
Your audio gear has plenty of headroom for voltage drops. You can easily drop the AC mains by 5 or 10% or even more and it will keep working. If you keep going, at some point it will stop. And then yes, a voltage regulator will get it working again but with no difference in quality of the sound. Such low voltage conditions would be faulty and you would need to get them resolved. So again, no audio gear expects regulated input voltage.
@@bernardchesneau3091 The 100:1 is only for instrumenting the incoming AC. It was NOT used in showing the difference in output of power supplies and audio gear. And in the analysis of incoming power, it has zero impact on the testing. Remember, the company itself doesn't show any device under any condition being improved with this box.
Looking at the rear panel, it appears to let you connect 20amp devices to a 15 amp circuit through a device that's limited to 300VA. Well, that's.. something...
Reminds me of the old black and white movies about when the magic elixir peddler came to town. "Cures lumbago, warts, ingrown toenails, sadness, liver sickness, and ends virility problems. Gather around folks and see the miracle cure for bunions, blurred vision, and stiff joints. How much for a bottle? How much can you afford to feel like you're 17 again? Only $100 a pound for a new lease on life..." What rich hifi buyer could resist the improvements brought by new, shiny 99% pure electricity from that dirty old power company? What emporer could resist a new suit? "Step right up to the cash register. We take Visa, Mastercard, and can arrange a second mortgage. Step right up..."
Great post as always. Highly informative. Could you please review the Moondrop Variations. It's frequency response mimics the harmon target almost to the t.
Great Video ! , Again I can't understand why big companies making devices with nothing to improve ? and publish that it's improving. they don't test their equipment ?
Interesting and probably saves me money by not being tempted to buy smthg like this. I hope my Linn Klimax Dynamik power supplies do all they need to do already.
Inb4 audiophools whine you're bought by Shenzhen Audio and are on a crusade against well-meaning American and European audio companies. Quite crazy how some freak out when reality does not conform with their subjective impressions.
Love your take on testing audio equipment, I wonder if a PS power plant was connected to a gasoline powered generator or a very noisy 120 volt source could it clean it up a bit or make an audible improvement . Just trying to make some sense of the purpose of this thing. This is an American company that employs Americans , they have an address not some over sea's P/O box and seem to be in it for the long term. I guess if I want to be a customer of theirs or any other retailer, I meaning me should make myself aware of the return policy .
Your audio gear simply doesn't care. As I have responded to others, I have generated very distorted AC and the audio gear performance does not change. See: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads%2Fimpact-of-ac-distortion-noise-on-audio-equipment.25501%2F
buying one of those for $5000 isn't employing americans, it's making Pauls house payment for a couple months and in return you get nothing. you'd get the same improvment in your audio setup if he just wrote you a thank you note and mailed it to you.
What we are finding is a lot of established names in the Hi-Fi industry are not actually that competent at a tech/design level. Yet those same people think they know more than the guys that developed the likes of USB/Ethernet/Digital storage etc. Laughable.
Good one you exposed the frauds in audiophile world! If I build an Amp then my power supply inside my amp has all distortions below 120 db. so any form of external clean up is total BS
![GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_7HbjdQRaAM/mqdefault.jpg)
Do you suppose Paul is beginning to have nightmares about a headless pink panther?
😂
Paul will probably be happy that people talk about his products. I am sure that most of his customers who spent thousands of dollars on such devices will hear the difference. Maybe they are the only people who hear it and maybe it's only in their imagination. But that a lot better than admitting you wasted thousands of dollars.
namzarf Yes, and he should. He knows damn well that his snake oil gimmicks are a ripoff. Paul is recommending his expensive snake oil power cord to clean the power going into his power cleaner, WTF? What's the next scam? Telling gullible audiophiles that they need a $2000 roll of PS audio 14/2 lumex to clean the power back to the breaker panel. PS audio audiophile power poles, transmission lines, power stations...........Where does the lunacy end?
Paul doesn't care. I'm afraid he will always be able to find gullible customers for his snake oil.
Paul doesn't actually exist. People just think he exists because they are susceptible to the placebo effect.
The voice of sanity in this world of audio riddled with fantasy. Thank you, Amir.
Definitely! 👍
fantasy/ deception/ incompetence 🤷♂
As much as I love positive reviews, I fully respect your scientific, and honest ones. Thank you.
Yes, I appreciate the negative reviews, since they stop people from spending money on poorly-designed products. Other PS Audio products appear to be well-designed, based on the lab tests I've seen, but apparently not the power regenerators. That's embarrassing for Paul, since the PowerPlant is how he made his name.
@@BruceCross what lab tested the equipment? PS audio labs? and like you said the power plant is how he made his name? a $5000 box of snake oil? that means his name is mud. when i use to every once in a while see an obscure video title and click on it to see what it was about and then see paul on it i use to think to myself "this guy again?" nah. because everytime i've ever watched one i knew he was wrong about stuff. sucks some people buy into that kind of stuff from people like him and don't do further research into the topics on their own.
@@XX-121 I'm referring to John Atkinson's measurements of PS Audio products for "Stereophile." His careful measurements are one of the few redeeming qualities of the magazine.
@@Asgoodasachange if i had $4000 i'd rather spend that on better amp and speakers that's gonna give me better sound than blow it on a glorified power strip that does absolutely nothing. but that's just me personally, you do you.
OMG You are back Amir. I was getting worried. Glad you are back!!! Happy Holidays man!!
Amir has been giving the most objective reviews. There are so many review channels but all I hear are "this is maybe the best ... in 2022", "there is a little bit of coloration but I like ...", "voicing is superb", and "this system is excellent for album A from the 70s" craps. At least we consumers and some audiophiles need transparent + objective reviews. If they'd profit from sponsors and what not, they better show us some spectral analysis, use the same reference recordings, and avoid using too much euphemism because it's confusing.
Thank you Amir for such valuable reviews.
Almost all of the hi-fi "review" industry are really paid shills and true believers. The Opus codec used by TH-cam can't be reliably ABXed from loseless down to 128kbps, yet somehow these guys can tell how much better their equipmment sounds becomes just by changing fuses.
Thank you once again for the highly valuable, public service that you perform for all of us at no cost to us Amir. You are a modern day hero, fine sir. Merry Christmas and a very Happy and healthy New Year to you Amir. Fred
Oh, you are too kind. Much appreciated. Happy holidays to you as well.
@@AudioScienceReview You deserve it. I also believe PS Audio ultimately will benefit from honest reviews giving them feedback of your kind. I like to admire Paul for his genuine desire to make great sounding products through American engineering but no company will succeed without some "feedback loops" and in the audiophile business, people within a company often get stuck with some falsehood of opinion. Do staff at Nordost genuinely believe that their cables sound better after burn-in? I wouldn't be surprised if they do and what they put on their website is likely not intentional lies, even you and I know it's complete bogus and such claim easily could be disproved in a null-test or blind-test.
@@AudioScienceReview the problem with Asr and your tests.
th-cam.com/video/r8CaqZKqKHg/w-d-xo.html
@@ThinkingBetter Production and mastering is better to “measure” (if possible) than decoding hardware like a dac. Most music production is being overproduced, over-compressed that “debunking” consumer gear is somewhat a moot point. The blind tests really don’t work unless you are trained sound engineer that can “hear” a mix. If the mix was well mastered it SHOULD sound great on any dac or crappy portable device. Only then can a system sound “revealing” and measurement matter but if you have like 99% of all music being mixed and mastered for streaming services with all kinds of “perfect” DAW plug-ins like audio tune and perfect tempos. Only 1% or less music production is being done for the “audiophile” community. It’s a bigger issue that what ASR does.
Thats pretty embarrassing from PS Audio. The fact that they can't even afford to test their own gear is really disgraceful, especially at their pricepoints.. This is definitely just a cash-in unfortunately, hopefully one day they will design something that is of worth, when it comes to power. Great review, more like this please.
It has nothing at all to do with not affording the testing. They can afford all the testing in the world. Like so many other companies out there today in the high-end audio space (and there are literally thousands of them) they don't WANT to do any testing. They simply want you to take it on face value/take their word for it, that their products do what they claim. Well, what Amir has demonstrated now for the world, time and time again, is that these companies DON'T actually live up to their billing with the products that they produce. They don't want you looking at test results because that would reveal the differences between what they are CLAIMING and what they are actually providing. That needs to change. We need to start holding these companies' collective feet to the fire and demand that they provide TESTING and MEASUREMENTS themselves that substantiate their marketing claims when selling these types of products. We need to let these companies know that we are no longer going to just "take their word for it". The new customer mantra to ALL companies in the A/V space needs to be spoken with one resounding, unified voice: PROVE IT!
@@michaelbeckerman7532 Agreed 👍.
This is NOT a Negative review. It's a Truthful and honest one.
You really have to question the ethics and professionalism of a company sellling products like this. The person who designed it is, no doubt, an experienced audio engineer who would be well capable of running the sorts of tests that Amir has. If they did the tests they would soon see the product is worthless. If they didn't do the tests, shame on them.
Yes, it's dreadful in either case . The audio engineer either lacks professional ethics or knowledge.
Place your bets now, inside will be a single capacitor encased in epoxy
Paul and his team are legit audio engineers and I'm sure they know what Amir told us in his reviews. The thing is Paul and his team are not just "audio engineers" anymore, they are an audiophile company and as any other companies/corporations.... They must prioritize profits first and foremost.
Before ASR Paul created himself a good reputation for being the "half-truth" audio engineer/audiophile veteran. It means that he does not always seem to agree with audiophile concepts, plus he actively shares his engineering experience/knowledge to the community. So over the time alot of folks started to have great faith in him, to the point of not needing to double-check his statements. I must say he's quite great as a businessman and influencer.
Edit: I should mention that there's also a possibility he is fully believing in "experiences that cannot be measured". I've read that some other reputable audio engineers and sound experts that are not snakeoil sellers at all and they also think it's possible we haven't discovered everything yet.
@@Douglas_Blake I am already aware of that, I don't think it is the core issue, it is rather his choice to cater his audiophile consumers that allowed him to make products this mediocre while being able to sell for very high prices.
You don’t need to question. The question is answered. No professionalism nor ethics.
LoL 🤣 ... Amir keeps bursting 'high end' bubbles all over the place ... well done Sir !
I couldn’t ask for a better ending to the weekend. Thank you!
Paul is so far down the rabbit hole he fell off the earth years back. I find it a worry how many people trust the guy due to his calming voice and his ability to pretend he's not selling you anything. The guys obsession with DSD borders on the pathological. Guys and companies like that need calling out for sure.
From an engineering and mathematical point-of-view DSD is the best commercially available storage solution there is. Period. Sorry. But the rest of your comment is spot-on.
@@christophero1969 he said nothing about how good or bad dsd is, just paul’s obsession with it
@@silva_579 There are many members of the ASR community who dislike DSD and frequently criticize it on the website, including Amir himself, who has made several videos on the subject. Some of these individuals may be followers of Amir or "disciples" of his views. Amir has now made 5 videos on Paul and his company PS Audio. Clickbait??
thing is, people in the know can smell his bull sh!d a mile away. i guess the problem is, more and more people, especially these days, don't even know right from left.
@@christophero1969 if you say so. really DXD is, being DSD has to be converted to it anyway to be manipulated or mastered. heck just look into some of the releases that have been analyzed on this channel in just about every instance you'd be better off with standard Hi-Res if even that. you're just wasting hard drive space and cd audio actually sound magnificent (to me) as long as they're properly mastered, that and the fact that the only thing SACD's really got going for it is the multi-channel
Why don't I ever have these problems? My equipment is vintage mid fi. Oh I'll bet it's not resolving enough. It's so unresolving it only plays the music.
Maybe Paul can start sending competitor's devices to Amir for testing to keep him occupied.
Or maybe Amir should just start listening and enjoying music...that is what it's meant for.
*BS Audio.
Lol
Hey that was my joke
I cannot thank you enough for your empirical data and objective take. This review is eye-opening. Please, don't apologize about being real / honest, especially since you're coming from such an objective angle. Thanks again boss!
PAUL'S REFERENCE AudioQuest Dragon AC Power Cable: $5,500 for 1 meter. Do you think this is a good fit to use with this unit?
🤣🤣🤣
I knew something was missing frommy testing. 😁
Wohoo nice to see you uploading again mr. amir
Paul is now saying you need to buy two of his power plants for your hifi. One for your sources and another one for your power amps. He said your power amps are hungry for power and will disturb the power from the power plant going to your sources hence you need another seperate power plant for your sources. Yet more electricity wasted.
You are missing the function of this product. It's $2,400. It meets it's requirements exactly.
😃
I'm not a fan of adding power supplies to existing power supplies. Better to spend your money on something that has a descent power supply built in. And in any case, where do you stop. Do you add another power supply to the one you've already added?
Would that be twice as good, or worse as the case my be.
I just love this guys reviews. If your selling us something to improve our systems at least tell us why in works. And it was suggested that adding a better/more expensive power cable would further improves things. Unbelievable. The human brain is so easily fooled.
A very good video!! I think some buyers use this video as the basis to sue PS Audio for the intentional false marketing.
Amir Trek: The Wrath of Paul.
Haven't read a review, but i already know what they'll say! Same platitudes they've used for ages. Black background, calmness, crispy tops etc etc. 5/5! Would you like a complementary full-page ad? That would boost sales!
Manufacturers should really be careful, why make a product which will make consumers lose respect for your brand. People do not mind giving you profit margin but at least provide products that have merit and value.
I agree. I think it's almost funny when Paul from PS Audio presents his systems with huge amplifiers and huge power generators. That always brings up the question: Did your engineers design your amplifier (internal) power supplies so bad that they need power generators before the AC input? And if those power amplifiers have great quality build in power supplies, why do you use power generators in front of them? Somehow this just doesn't add up.
Most people who follow Amir can’t afford PS Audio stuff anyways so it doesn’t matter.
@@edgar9651 I think that the analogy is the same as for the general concept of separates. Why are there preamps and amps when we can build an integrated amplifier which contains both? The reason is simple: specialisation, separation of concerns and more available real estate.
So, the point is not why do we need a regenerator between mains and electronics. The question is rather why this regenerator does not do its job better than the smaller and simpler ones contained inside each electronic connected to it.
Honestly I think that we'd be better off producing electronics having only DC inputs and separated specialized power plants with DC outputs for the electronics. The whole concept of turning AC into DC for producing again an (allegedly cleaner) AC sinewave for the electronics, which then turn it again into DC, is pointless
I just said it in one of your p12 review test. Thank you Amir for shinning the light on people who are taking our money and not delivering on design promises.
I will add this... PS Audio sells nothing but the industry standard snake oil for many years. You have made a loyal follower out of me. The only way to stop people like ps audio is to stop buying their products when they don't measure up to marketing pitch. See how quick things will change.
I'm really hoping that the rise if sites like ASR will push ALL of these high-end audio companies to start producing and publishing their OWN test/measurement results on their products. NO MORE UNSUBSTANTIATED MARKETING CLAIMS! We need to start holding ALL of these companies accountable going forward. From now on, they need to either PUT UP or SHUT UP! Yeah, we get that only your ear can make the final call as to whether or not a product has a positive impact on overall sound quality, that much goes without saying. In the meantime, it STILL important and valuable to see and review valid testing and measurement results. Every single company in the high-end audio space now needs to understand this - and customers need to start demanding it - BEFORE they spend THOUSANDS of their hard-earned dollars. It's time for the world (of high-end audio) to change.
As some from PS audio's neck of the woods they always amaze me with their antics. So glad I didnt buy a sprout before I educated myself
@Douglas Blake Its not that the sprout is bad, I would just rather not support a company that sells snake oil.
When I youtube PS Audio power plant the first few hits are Audio Science Review and not even PS Audio, hahaha.
Nice review. For more subscribers I recommend you turn on the narcissist switch to max volume, talk 10 times louder, and encourage viewers to go to your store and buy all the avaible snake oil. :) Seriously, I appreciate your approach in your reviews and the quantifiable data that support.
How can PS audio claim it eliminates noise when it does not have they done any measurements at all ?
In absence of checks and balances, anything goes.
@@AudioScienceReview Yes and they still get away with selling those units
Why did they put NEMA 5-20 Sockets on here if this thing can only ever output 300 watts continuously and 1000 watts at peak? That seems optimistic at best.
Indeed. It is part of their marketing I assume to make the socket look fancier.
Great video. Good to see you back on youtube.
Maybe your next video can be about the Neumann KH150?
You read my mind. :)
Nice and clear review. Would like to see more of this on amplifiers and turntables. TH-cam is filled with hype and glorification "reviews" that is more marketing. The need for more concise and honest reviews is much needed in audio and homecinema.
Your videos are immensely enjoyable and educational and I wish you would post more frequently.
I think, the manufacturers of this kind of audio gear produce something far more valuable than diminished distortion or increased dynamics.
Everybody knows that those are jobs for electronic devices that don't require rocket science and can be built for reasonable amounts of money. The hifi manufacturers sell you the confirmation that you are special. Your system is so good, your knowledge is this comprehensive and your ears are so sensitive that you can hear the finest differences in sound and rise far above the average Joe, who ist unfortunately to dull to experience these refined joys. It's the same with wines, whiskies etc.
For someone with disposable income, isn't buying self worth for a couple thousand dollars a good investment?
Great review thanks 👍.
This one is snake oil but I bought a fat, far cheaper Tacima mains conditioner recommended by another TH-cam channel, a British Audiophile, that I swear made a considerable improvement to my setup! In particular, it lowered the background noise level so I was able to hear delicate notes dying away much better (I like classical. It’s possible this is irrelevant with pop.)
I’ve watched maybe dozens of Paul’s videos and he comes over as just a salesman for 90% of the time but that other 10% of genuine knowledge and experience keeps me coming back.
So 90% of the time he's a salesman to you, right? Id say that means the other 10% of the time he's a SUCCESSFUL salesmen. The dude is playing a character. A friendly old uncle who just loves some good tunes. Hes not always selling something, right? Just sitting down and real talking about gear, how it works, the basics. Real polite, friendly to newbies, wouldn't hurt a fly. 🤔 I'm sure that's not intentionally misleading of his actual character and actions, right? right..
Looking forward to the PS Audio "comedy troupe fantasy" retort.
Great work as always. The less of these ineffective and pointless products that people buy the better. Maybe then these manufacturers will get the message when people stop falling for the BS.
I heard there are nanobots in the box with tiny brooms and mops, which clean your power as it flows through the box.
It's not only PS Audio. All manufacturers of such devises produce kit that does nothing. It looks nice. But does nothing. Spend as much as you can afford on the components that matter...amps, DACs , speakers etc etc.
i think after like 10 years the creators of PS audio will come up and say "We are a BS company and we are laughing our asses of to you buying and advocating our products for 20 years... you idiots you got pranked" and spent rest of their days on bahama spending their PS audio money from a swiss bank... If its not the plan, consider it.
Great review! Now I do notice that your Raw AC is relatively clean and with good voltage I would love to see a comparison when the incoming voltage is let’s say 10% from nominal to see if there is any difference that way. I myself at my house during the summer times is not rare were the voltage would be as low as 104 volts, and since we run a small business when the printer would run the voltage would drop to as low as 99 volts. Which is why I got a Tripp Lite double conversion ups for my theater room in order to protect my equipment it always keeps the voltage at 120.5 volts. I don’t really have a comparison with Raw Ac because the equipment has been connected to the UPS since day one and wouldn’t dare plugging it in to the raw ac if it always sounded amazing on the UPS, but I would imagine that since the amplifiers are of the linear type the low voltage would surely degrade their performance. Which is why I think would be interesting to see if there is a performance difference when the raw ac is much lower than nominal.
I agree my raw AC looked pretty good in this instance. In previous tests, it has shown more distortion. I have actually done one better than what you suggest though: my lab AC regen can create highly distorted waveforms. I have fed that to audio equipment with zero impact. Please see it here: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/impact-of-ac-distortion-noise-on-audio-equipment.25501/
@@AudioScienceReview that’s great to see it seems like audio equipment have very good filtration agains ac noise and distortion, but I’m also interested in is if low voltage conditions affect their performance I’m sure if it has a switching power supply it shouldn’t affect anything since those are mostly world devices designed to work on 100 up to 240v but what about linear supplies I’m sure they have voltage regulation to some point but how would they work if the voltage was lower than 10% nominal I’ve seen some amps that might go into protect mode if the voltage was too low which was the primary reason I got the Double Conversion UPS hahaha since there are times that the voltage does go lower than 10% nominal I didn’t want that problem. If worst comes to worst where voltage doesn’t really affect audio equipment at least it can serve in the event of a power blip or power outage were I can safely turn of the equipment without harming them hahahah. Thank you for your response!
dude if you're voltage is going down that low you need to contact your power company. let me guess it's dropping hz too right? i really have a hard time believing you.
@@XX-121 I never said anything about an Air Conditioner though it might be the problem that’s because in my City during the summer time it’s not uncommon for the temps to be on triple digits so everyone is off course running their A/Cs hearts off. I did actually call and when they sent someone they said that everything was normal the low voltage was actually caused because during times of very heavy power usage the electric company themselves reduce the voltage by 10 volts to 110v instead of 120v in order to reduce the load on their equipment which in turn reduces power outages due to overloading of the grid the lower voltage to 104 is therefore cause from the high load since the voltage has already been reduced to 110 so instead of dropping to 114v (which would be totally normal) the voltage would drop to 104v. The frequency remains normal at 60hz no problems there. During the cooler months most people rely on gas furnaces and no ac which means the grid doesn’t really get overwhelmed therefore no voltage reduction so the voltages are way more stable and only drop to about 118v during the day to up to 125v during the night so the power problems are only during the warm months.
@@AudioScienceReview You said : " Your audio gear simply doesn't care how "clean" the AC is" ... Well , I'm confidence in your honesty and professionally tests and results, That is not the issue. The issue is that I'm amazed every time that lots of famous Audio companies selling unnecessary products and even publish nonsense. Wish I could go back in time and consult with you before buying ... Thank you for great tests and videos ! that webpage link is added to my Safari's Favorite website ...
Sir, love your channel. Can you please review some audio gear for streaming music, like ifi zen stream, Roon nucleus etc
I have watched about 10 of your videos the last 2 days and I have to say I’m blown away!!!!! Would it be possible to test any Furman power conditioner + regulator for all of us musicians with home music studios? Wish you happy new year ;)
Judging by their videos PS stands for patronising and smug.
Amir is an almost solitary voice on the objective science of electrical engineering relating to audio. Although Paul McGowan and other high end electronics “gurus”maybe perfectly nice guys that shouldn’t disguise the fact that the majority of high end equipment is grossly overpriced and is almost always bettered in measurements by components costing considerably less. The super expensive equipment is often very cool to look at and is very solidly built but how relevant is that if it has measurable sub par performance. Of course the gifted ones with the “golden ears “ will berate you over not hearing the difference but that is merely a cheap ploy to distract from the paucity of their argument. I just wish there were more videos from Audio science review
Good to have you back Amir !
Great review! thank you. Being a Journeyman Electrician for many years, and a audiophile, this just reaffirms my view on the power (AC) products for HiFi. Power cables make me crazy. 50 miles of provider service conductors, hundreds of splices, fuses, aluminum and other metal wire, but the last 3 feet of $6000 unobtainium power cable makes a big difference....?? Power conditioner/regenerators systems can be very capable for some industry's, hospitals ect with highly sensitive equipment, large computer installations and so on.. does that matter or benefit HiFi? at home? The .0001% ? or as you have shown, worse. Well engineered and manufactured products such as DAC's, Pre amps, Amplifiers, Sources, Speaker set up, and the room which it all lives has the most impact and matters IMO. In any event, if it makes a person feel better, believes it makes a difference, it is their choice. Choice is what it is all about. Thanks again Amir!
Thanks for the nice comments. Yes, if something makes people feel good, it is fine to use it. They just shouldn't expect improvement in audio. What makes great audio devices great is the fact that they have great filtering of power supply output. Once there, any other attempt is futile.
👍👍 Best wishes for the Holidays!@@AudioScienceReview
Hello fellow Electrician, I think pretty much the same way. Don't get me started on audiophile headphone cables. Amir's money quote was in the last sentence: "Every audio device you have assume AC is dirty"
@@harpokrates 👍
How about informed choice?
Another fascinating video as always and I've started exploring your interesting website and forums more recently. What do you think about using UPSs on our hifi equipment? I've a couple that were unwanted from work sat at the bottom of a cupboard. The way it was explained to me is that they feed connected equipment from the battery slicing the DC back into AC. Would that be any more reliable than units with filters like this or just as likely to add noise?
I don't use UPS on any audio gear other than my Windows PC which is my music server (and NAS). I do plan to do more investigation of quality of AC coming out of UPS devices. I expect the pure sine wave ones to be good but again, it won't make a difference to your audio gear because it doesn't need or expect clean power.
@@AudioScienceReview that will be another set of measurements I'll enjoy seeing. But yes as you say and have shown, our connected equipment can handle imperfect mains. That's very reassuring for us all to know. I suppose the benefits of a UPS could be keeping your kit running those times when the lights might flicker and surge protection.
@@AudioScienceReview Hey Amir why hasn’t your friends over at Microsoft done anything with the HDCD encoder? I’d love to get my hands on the peak extension, dithering and transient algorithms for the HDCD encoders they would be really useful in combating the loudness wars. Hook at brother up. Thanks
Would depend on the quality of the output sine and it's noise, and the psrr of the amplifier. Amps with good psrr are very resilient to supply noise.
Huh, I had no idea that snake oil could congeal into such a form.
Amir , just some information, I have also Apx555 like yours. I notice USB connection from PC to AP and DUT could make huge difference in ground loops , I use isolation transformer 4KW , to connect all to it , AP , PC , DUT . No common mode.
One things you can try to use galvanic isolated USB , that lift ( disconnect) PC chassis from AP and DUT. Try it you will get surprise of result.
Good review as always, with an expected result shame on companies that sell these quack products. 300 watts this would not run my amp! this is basically a UPS without the battery.
Methinks Paul McGowan will be displeased with this review.
Hi Amir, I found this really interesting, thank you. So far, I have only experimented with a Balanced Mains Unit. As I understand it, this is a passive device which relies on a large transformer to split the mains input into the two separate parts of the sine wave, positive and negative, and puts them 180 degrees out of phase. On adding them back together (not sure where this takes place, or how!), any distortion (positive) to both parts of the pure sine wave is cancelled out as the two halves of the spike, for instance, then become out of phase. How would the downstream device, such as a power amp, be affected? Would it suffer the same or similar degradation as you have discussed in the PS Audio process, which I can see is doing a lot more than does the BMU I have described? By the way, the sound was superficially more impressive, especially in the bass, but it was a budget device and hummed terribly anyway, thus ruling itself out!
Спасибо за отличный обзор! 👍
Great review. I would love to see you and the owner of P.S. Audio debate the product. That would be an interesting pay per view I'd love to see!
He did debate my testing of PowerPlant 15. Didn't work out well for them. :) His own understanding of his product was wrong as I showed how it limited current to amplifiers and such.
na... i'm thinking about the next TH-cam boxing match!!!! that Andrew Tate v Jake Paul match is already in the works! :)
Useless, costly gizmoz. I love you Amir !!! You are God s best gift to us audio phreaaks of age!
So many dumb things on this product, 20A duplexes, fed by 15A line cord is violation....where is the UL or ETL anything to show it passed any standard tests for safety and performance?
Thanks Amir for another great video.
What make & model surge suppressor/line conditioner do you use & recommend? You said in this video that you use one that cost $2,500.00.
I currently have a Furman Elite 15 Power Factor i (PFi)
I was wondering if what you are using would be a significant upgrade over my Furman?
Thanks for being the voice of reason, backed by scientific data in this nutty world of hifi.
Great honest review!
Thanks for the video. What do you recommend for surge protection and/or power conditioner?
Nothing that you would plug in. The only effect surge protection device would sit at our breaker box or utility meter. There, it has access to low impedance ground which is what you need to deal with surges. Power company in US installs them at the meter at very reasonable costs (mine was just $350). Point of use surge protectors can actually dump surges into the ground and have it then travel to all the other devices in the house! So they can do more harm than good. Finally, your home owner's insurance in US usually covers lightning damage and such.
@@AudioScienceReview thanks! Any suggestion for a device that adds additional outlets. I have two near my stereo and need 6.
Hello Amir. Many of your measurements show peaks of different frequencies, indeed if listened to separately they are out of the audible range. However you seem to forget that they add to what is in the signal and thus affect the overall frequency perception, don't you? Please show us sometime the output signal with noise added, will it be the same? Overall good job thanks for your work. PS This relates to other tests that show the distortion impact to what one can hear.
GR and PS are always good for a laugh.
It baffles me how they still sell and launch products like this. Our sneaky uncle from BS Audio is doing a good job..
Let’s assume someone has the worse power grid and the neighbors have an electrical arc furnace that runs 24/7, would it help in that case?
Well, it's funny you should say that. Maybe I do need one of these. Lol
Still no. See how I simulated 18% distortion on AC and it still made no difference: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/impact-of-ac-distortion-noise-on-audio-equipment.25501/
Just wait ... just wait till Paul gets hold of you!
It's now 2023 and well I loved watching your videos and why have they disappeared ?.
Two legit reasons to utilize a "power product";
1.) Lower noise
2.) Lower impedance
¹Star, or common point grounding for equipment, some 𝙚𝙛𝙛𝙚𝙘𝙩𝙞𝙫𝙚 approach to 𝙖𝙥𝙥𝙧𝙚𝙘𝙞𝙖𝙗𝙡𝙚 power quality improvements, via isolation, or regen, etc.
²Low impedance delivery of high current demands with stiff voltage, ... free from I²R heat loss/voltage drop.
It's simple, mains either gets in the way or not.
Right?
Thoughts?
(I point it out often, but rarely does one encounter mention of the latter, low impedance)
Keep up the good work! PS Audio is milking it!
I would love a review of some double conversion nobreak. If it really creates a clean power.
I do plan to test one at some point....
Maybe audiophile products must be tested with audiophile measurement devices. Only then the results will look good. 😀
Ha!
There is no such a thing call "Audiophile measurements"
They ate so much placebo they even cured their own cancer that they never had!
Lol, a cheap 300w UPS without the battery. Would be very interesting to see what's inside, two mosfets incapable of continuous operation? Horrible modified wave only output when incoming AC goes out of spec?
Before you got into the review I was thinking ‘ why use an IEC male inlet but not female outlets’? (Like on your average small UPS). They’d need different inventory for different countries!
The only reason I can think of is the absence of overpriced audiophile f-m IEC cables. For the price they sell these for I’m sure the budget could stretch to a few leads.
Speaking of UPS, the line interactive 2005 vintage APC UPS I have in my rack does basically the same thing as this, can run for hours off batteries, and cost me all of $100 second hand. I’ve seen them in concert touring setups powering dante stage I/O boxes. If its good enough for your favourite touring artists… I’d be curious to see you put one on the bench.
Perhaps you should invest a few bucks in a current transformer/shunt so you can look at the current waveforms too.
Paul talks a lot about the lowering of impedance from using these powerplants. Is that something that can be measured?
I came for the education,then stayed to read all the PS Audio butt hurt fan boys comments,sadly I'm too early and none have commented so far 😆
Who buys these and other products from this company? What kind of "community" are they?
Go get em Amir!
One more attempt and error, it is quite one of the most initiatives in the scientific community in the search for solutions. Amir another excellent cause/effect demonstrated by your knowledge and applied scientific method. great Video.
We need please a review of the standard professional ac regenerator: furman. It will be a crap product or not? Thanks
I plan to do that at some point.
1 question - how bad was AC and shouldn’t (controlled) bad AC be used in a first place for a test of an equipment that only makes sense with bad AC? Perhaps one could use your lab AC generator to mess it up?
Even an odd swim ring is rather not helpful to someone who is not in the water or a is a good swimmer anyway. ;)
Why are most reviews on other sites fake? Your site is real but others aren't. Here is a good video topic, how to tell rear reviews from fake reviews.
Why not using batteries... I'm off grid and it's easier for me to work with DC. I'm building a small 36V LiFePo4 pack of cells to drive my amplifier (fosi audio) and dac, I'm cheap audiophile... if I can say, it's not my main passion but I enjoy nice music and nature sounds.
Those small amplifiers are DC and it's so convenient to me... I do not have to run my inverter to power them and those class D also use far less energy... which mean more music per chunk of sun power... 😊
Well done mate buying some good smps 300w+Taiwan make some good ones, You can connect the battery after the first stage and adjust the buck converter feedback resistor to the output you want You could just feed it 12 volts
Sir please suggest me a good quality power cord and power conditioner
If clean power is the goal wouldn't a better approach be a battery bank and as high quality generated sine as possible?
That's been done and there's a lot of information online about it. For an expensive version see the th-cam.com/video/PInKGVBkCYc/w-d-xo.html
Would it be possible to consider that both Amir's testing and PS audio reason for building this device are well founded? If your mains only put out 98 volts and the unit brings it back to a steady 120 volts, you will hear a difference through your audio gear. This is not mentioned in the test and yet this is one of the purposes of such a unit. Amir does not question the quality of the mains whereas PS audio does. Amir and PS audio do not ask themselves the same questions therefore their points of view and design goals will be different. It is more constructive to learn more about each other as people than to continue playing the "I am right, you are wrong" game, which at the end of day only brings more disasters to our world through ongoing misunderstandings.
@Darth Ciucciet me guess: he is doing his single component, single test tone (1kHz) tests, and concludes “no difference whatsoever”, while potential customers may have their PV-System installed, with ugly effects on their net voltage and - most relevant - notably degraded sound of their sensitive system and listening experience and possibly convinced (or not) after a few days home trial. for those who see their PV issue fixed with the PS device what would be the news ASR can bring to the table?
Also I do not see, as stated elsewhere, a “service to the public” to those who have no issue with their system in a first place, and secondly are not even considering buying any 100€ passive power filter to fix any problems they do not have.
absolutely! I add, those devices get their justification from improving perceived sound quality when they system is compromised by power grid issues (think of photo voltaic system and not so well filtered power electronics), which I suppose were not varied or controlled in the test.
@Darth CiucciHas he looked at everyone of PS audio claims?
"In the process of regeneration, any problems commonly found on your power line, such as low voltage, distorted waveforms, sagging power, flat-topping, and noise are eliminated".
Unless I missed something, it seems to me that Amir main focus was noise only, also dropping the measurement voltages by a factor of 100 is not really sticking to reality.
Your audio gear has plenty of headroom for voltage drops. You can easily drop the AC mains by 5 or 10% or even more and it will keep working. If you keep going, at some point it will stop. And then yes, a voltage regulator will get it working again but with no difference in quality of the sound. Such low voltage conditions would be faulty and you would need to get them resolved. So again, no audio gear expects regulated input voltage.
@@bernardchesneau3091 The 100:1 is only for instrumenting the incoming AC. It was NOT used in showing the difference in output of power supplies and audio gear. And in the analysis of incoming power, it has zero impact on the testing. Remember, the company itself doesn't show any device under any condition being improved with this box.
Looking at the rear panel, it appears to let you connect 20amp devices to a 15 amp circuit through a device that's limited to 300VA. Well, that's.. something...
Looks like a glorified power strip.
That, it is... Except that it also chews up power on its own.
@@AudioScienceReview problem is people will buy it thinking it's the greatest thing ever made..sad. Thank you for the video exposing junk like this.
Reminds me of the old black and white movies about when the magic elixir peddler came to town.
"Cures lumbago, warts, ingrown toenails, sadness, liver sickness, and ends virility problems. Gather around folks and see the miracle cure for bunions, blurred vision, and stiff joints. How much for a bottle? How much can you afford to feel like you're 17 again? Only $100 a pound for a new lease on life..."
What rich hifi buyer could resist the improvements brought by new, shiny 99% pure electricity from that dirty old power company? What emporer could resist a new suit?
"Step right up to the cash register. We take Visa, Mastercard, and can arrange a second mortgage. Step right up..."
Great post as always. Highly informative. Could you please review the Moondrop Variations. It's frequency response mimics the harmon target almost to the t.
Great Video ! , Again I can't understand why big companies making devices with nothing to improve ? and publish that it's improving. they don't test their equipment ?
Interesting and probably saves me money by not being tempted to buy smthg like this. I hope my Linn Klimax Dynamik power supplies do all they need to do already.
Inb4 audiophools whine you're bought by Shenzhen Audio and are on a crusade against well-meaning American and European audio companies.
Quite crazy how some freak out when reality does not conform with their subjective impressions.
Can you do a video on tweaks that actually work.
Cable risers seem to be the new thing, would love to know if there is a measurable difference
😂😂🤣🤣
Damn, i just bought a $10.000 audio power plant re-generator and after watching this video i don't heard any difference anymore. 😅
Love your take on testing audio equipment, I wonder if a PS power plant was connected to a gasoline powered generator or a very noisy 120 volt source could it clean it up a bit or make an audible improvement . Just trying to make some sense of the purpose of this thing. This is an American company that employs Americans , they have an address not some over sea's P/O box and seem to be in it for the long term. I guess if I want to be a customer of theirs or any other retailer, I meaning me should make myself aware of the return policy .
Your audio gear simply doesn't care. As I have responded to others, I have generated very distorted AC and the audio gear performance does not change. See: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads%2Fimpact-of-ac-distortion-noise-on-audio-equipment.25501%2F
buying one of those for $5000 isn't employing americans, it's making Pauls house payment for a couple months and in return you get nothing. you'd get the same improvment in your audio setup if he just wrote you a thank you note and mailed it to you.
What we are finding is a lot of established names in the Hi-Fi industry are not actually that competent at a tech/design level. Yet those same people think they know more than the guys that developed the likes of USB/Ethernet/Digital storage etc. Laughable.
An N30 Toroid ring wrapped around your AC cable will do the very same thing, without adding ground loop noise. I costs less than 10 bucks.
Shouldn't a good amplifier and a power supply circuit filter account for any noise and distortion?
Some of the supposed very best have sad excuses of a power supply
Good one you exposed the frauds in audiophile world!
If I build an Amp then my power supply inside my amp has all distortions below 120 db. so any form of external clean up is total BS