I’ve been carrying a 229 for over 17 years now and it’s a Great platform. Todd was a Great guy and dearly miss him. He showed me ho to be a better shooter.
craig vandeweg true story! I think its because it doesn’t make as many videos. It averages about 1-2 a month whereas others average 3 to sometimes 4 a week. Big difference.
knine1833 I don’t read any comments unless someone comments at me. I really don’t care what people think nor do I have the time or patience to read what they have to say. I have way better things to do with my time
I'm no pistol expert by any means but all I do know after my 25 years of being a cop and using three different department issued pistols over that duration is that the Sig 229 .40 was by far my favorite. No issues whatsoever and since my retirement I've expanded my Sig inventory with this pistol and another. Love them all.
Fomer USSS, so I have my own experience behind this thing, and have heard the experiences of literal hundreds of others behind it. The P229 just works. Period. As an issued weapon (and I've gotta say, you guys picked THE most Gucci/new variant of the pistol possible.) It out performs the Glock 19 in reliability and ease (without need for modification/adjustment in hardware or biomechanics) at high round count. And one huge factor for anyone issued these, the P229 is not a human hand flesh eater like the G19 is. (I have experience with both as duty weapons.) There are more gremlins with a G19 than a P229. And by that I mean neither gun in my experience stops running. But with the G19: Slide bite. Sites walking. Trigger (plastic) rod walking out. Pig nose, etc. The P229 has always gone bang with no such issues.
I've used both independent of my service. My observations: the G19 absolutely sucks when suppressed (it hates it, not worth the effort. It ejects its magazine, it likes to puke unfired rounds out of the top, it has a lot of hang ups due to slide velocity acceleration with the back pressure from a suppressor), it hates old magazines (worn mag springs will struggle to feed the last round in mag unless it's an fmj, they will eject themselves upon firing), all polymer components are subject to deformation (the mag release rounds out exacerbating the self dropping mag problem, the recoil spring guide rod droops, the frame pignoses), and lastly the sights are very fragile (mine have multiple chips and have randomly moved here and there). Sig 229 experiences: the magazines hate grit (small amounts of sand will totally compromise the magazine leading to very interesting malfunctions), the gun hates weak ammo, and the trigger gets stiffer as the gun gets dirty. The sig has had WAY less issues while shooting suppressed but even shooting without I have had way smoother performance. The big issue so far has been cleanliness. The gun doesn't like to play dirty. However, it at least holds on to its magazines.
@Nathan Kim Kinda dumb that people say stuff like this...my first pistol was a G19, but that's because I couldn't justify a P229 or P226 at the time. But the P226/P229 was a gun that I was accurate with from the moment I picked it up when I was 18, the Glock has taken a good bit of training to get comfortable with. The Sig also has the data to back up its claims in terms of reliability, with the only competitor being the Beretta 92. Glock is good for the money, and I have been considering picking up a G45 MOS, BUT if money wasn't an object I would adopt the Sig P229/P226.
@@DavidLLambertmobile - I was issued a Browning Hi-power then Sig P226 and later a Glock 17 and preferred the Sig. With McNabb (real name Steven Mitchell) though, he left the army in the early 90s though, when Glocks were relatively new and people didn't take them as seriously back then.... but a lot of guys preferred the Sig to striker fired pistols.
Ok? This is almost as bad as the people who state obvious stuff about the 2nd Amendment on a video talking about unconstitutional laws. We all felt the pain of the increased ammo prices...
I think why some people might say that a SIG Legion 'suck' is that they (SIG that is) hyped them big time and that they definitely carry a premium price tag. SIG have a really solid reputation from real world usage that few can argue against.
Wow. Did not know Tod Green passed away. He’d plow through with the old school DA/SA pistols high round count. Right now the SIG deals are in the police trade ins. The 40 229 is the most popular.
I thought the police trade ins were a deal until I picked up a CPO 226 for $475. If no one told you that was a CPO gun, you would swear it was a brand new gun. BTW, CPO are certified pre-owned guns returned by the factory.
Ive never shot a 229 with an optic, but i cant think of any polymer pistol id trade an old Sig 229 for. Probably the best pistol ive shot, and ive shot plenty. But thatss just my opinion, thats why theres so many different guns
@J Tommy I did! I love it! Grip is a little thick for my very average sized hands but other than that, I think it’s a great gun. Put a holosun optic on it to boot. I’ve done some training with it and I’ve had no malfunctions or hiccups with it.
You guys are doing awesome work between your Lucky Gunner Labs ballistics tests and your TH-cam series! Keep making content, I'm gonna stay tuned. And please ship direct to customer in NY, it's perfectly legal and I'd love to buy from you guys, but after FFL fees it's not cost-effective for me.
If the gun was 500.00 dollars, i.e. affordable, everyone would be falling all over themselves to buy them, and saying they are the second coming... Same thing happened when HK dropped the VP9, now HK is cool, because it’s “affordable.”I never have an opinion about something I feel I can’t afford. Next we’ll have people trying say that a Toyota Avalon is just as good as Lexus GS, and that GS is actually a crappy over priced car. Personally, I like Avalon’s, I buy Avalon’s, and one day when I feel I can afford it, I will by GS -I’m not going to go around trying to convince everyone that a Lexus GS is trash car😉✊🏿
How is a $1,200 quality pistol not affordable? Are you poor and stricken with bad credit or just a cheap skate? In the year 1911 you could get a Colt 1911 for about $30. The gold standard was in effect and an ounce of gold was $20.67. A $25 gold piece was a 1/2 ounce and worth about twice as much as the melt weight. So if you figure that gold is around $1,200 an ounce today, I would argue that a quality semiautomatic pistol cost no more today than it did then.
@@mattmarzula honestly, that's kind of a dumb analysis. The fact is, all technology gets cheaper over time. The first cell phones were huge, some even required a case they'll not all, and cost as much as a high-end personal computer would today. Now you can get a smartphone, that's easily two or three, or five, orders of magnitude more powerful for $200. The same is true with guns. Yes, in 1911, a Colt 1911 might have cost a lot of money - but that's because it was new technology, it was still very much a hand fitted item, and there wasn't a whole lot of competition. Now we have plastic guns, that are mass-produced in robotic factories, for pennies on the dollar that they would have been years ago. So $1,200 might not be at astronomical price for a pistol, but considering that you can get a Glock that is every bit as reliable for closer to $400, it is a substantial difference that most people don't need to pay. In short, it's not so much that the price has gone up for the higher end, so much as it is now there are a lot more people who can afford a quality firearm, who maybe couldn't before.
Not sure what your point is. 10k rounds of decent ammo will cost more than the purchase price of the pistol. Are there other pistols available that cost less than the Sig and still work as well? Sure. But all gun companies are in the business to make money. One of the reasons striker guns are so popular is because they are very cheap to produce. Gun companies know this and market them heavily. Alloy framed TDA guns are not cheap to produce and the profit margins are lower. That doesn’t mean they’re bad guns. It also doesn’t mean that they would be more popular if they were cheaper. The Sig Pro is a really great pistol priced the same as most SF pistols. But they’re not flying off the shelf either.
@@thewalls7770 My main point is that price is a reflection of the value that any one places on any product. I'm interested in performance. Its been well documented that the Legion series performs, so I don't know why after two years folks are still talking about whether or not Legions perform - They do. Most complaints around the web that I've seen seem to center around price, and as I tried to say a few sentences earlier, price is subjective, and doesn't make the gun suck - Lucky Gunner did a review on the Legion P229 a couple years back and the review was favorable. So why is it that "the does it suck series" start with this particular pistol? Thoughts?
I have a 229 Extreme. Zero malfunctions of any sort in over 5 years. I also have a romeo 1 which so far has been perfect. I would be shocked if there's any way anyone could find a reason to say a 229 "sucks". Maybe people have different preference, but the SIG 229/226 pistols are pretty solid. Looking forward to the series.
Number of years is irrelevant. Number of rounds is what is important. Also, type of shooting. Guns tend to stop working more when doing more demanding shooting tasks.
>Tries to debunk the "Sig Sauer's current quality control is [allegedly] questionable" thing >Then proceeds to test one of their proven DA/SA guns, instead of the P320 or P365 which started that problem for Sig. When people say Sig sucks now, we usually say "except their 226 line, which is still good."
LinkHyrule03, I think a lot of knowledgeable people would say that Sig handguns across the board aren’t as good as they used to be. The old German guns with the stamped slides were wonderful. No need for “short reset triggers” because their triggers didn’t suck from the factory. And their slides weren’t the galling, heavy stainless ones like they have now because of the stupid.40 S&W cartridge that mandated the change. The p229 should have never existed, because it should have stayed the p228. Which most people don’t even remember existed.
The NJ State Police sued SIG Sauer over the "classic" line P229R TDA or traditional DA trigger. SIG Sauer blamed NJ's steel case 9mm training ammunition. NJ disliked the contract SIG models.
Get the SAO variant, maybe the P226. I purchased the 229. The only bad thing is the "Legion" finish. It will have heavy holster wear and chipping within a week if you carry and train. Boba Fett look. Capable of 100yd hits on 10" target. Repeatedly. Romeo1 Pro sight has held up, but is a bit "holographic" vs a Holosun or RMR. Works but you may want a different one.
Is there a follow up video? What was the result? I’m scrolling through, but you make a lot of videos …. I’m currently saving up for a 226 legion RXP sao. Just trying to see every review I can these
Legion is overpriced, buy a reg p229 and put an SRT in it, good enough. I know that's not all the legion is but for what you get it's not worth it being 50% more
Chris - Happy Holidays and THANK YOU for ALL you, your colleagues, and Lucky Gunner do for our community. Empirical, fact-based investigations, combined with real expertise - and conveyed without arrogance, but with precise articulateness - are rare and to be highly valued. Your testing and analyses are all that and more. I believe this will be a great and highly valuable series of TH-cams, but I’d respectfully offer an idea that you may wish to consider adding to your experiment: - Many months ago, one of your videos proclaimed that “revolvers were more-tolerant of neglect, while autoloaders were more-tolerant of abuse.” That’s absolutely correct (imho), and it is supported by my 50+ years of admittedly amateurish shooting experiences. - So, after the “torture test” is completed, why not let the firearm (and a couple fully loaded magazines) sit - UNTOUCHED - for a couple years . . . and then see if they’ll successfully cycle/fire (perhaps) twenty consecutive rounds (two or three magazines)? - Even better (and I don’t know if this approach is common in the small arms industry, but it is widely used in fixed-wing tactical aviation research, development, test and evaluation), why not try to accelerate the factors that make autoloaders more-prone to failures when they been unattended for years (e.g., possibly, something as simple as a fan blowing ambient temperature air over the firearm for perhaps 18 or 24 months would accelerate the “lubricant drying effects” on rails, striker mechanisms, extractors, ejectors, etc.)?
I have been carrying a 229 in 357sig for years and use it as a rang gun regularly. Never had any issues of any kind. Accuracy wise I can hit a man size target ar 50yrds without any effort
If I remember correctly, 10,000 rounds is what the US Army was doing with each lot of Beretta 92SF x 4 for each new lot. The test was at Aberdeen Proving Ground. I was told that the maximum average with 4 x 92’s had to be 8 malfunctions or less to pass. A lot of folks were saying that the 92SF wouldn’t hold up, so they took one of the four from the last lot and ran it until it broke. According to the engineers the 92SF tested ran to about 40,000 rounds before suffering a catastrophic malfunction. Aberdeen tested all available .40 S&W semi autos in 1996 under contract to INS. The Beretta 96D Brigadier averaged 4 malfunction for the 10,000 round durability tests. The second place averaged 29 malfunctions. We also added an Ammunition Compatibility test with all 40 S&W ammunition available. The Beretta 96D passed the test without any malfunctions, The others all “choked” and didn’t pass the test. But...that was in 1996 and I have to believe that if the tests were duplicated today that most of the entries would have passed. (Tests: Durability / reliability, Accuracy, Plugged Barrel Test, Sand and Dust Test, Corrosion Test, Drop Test from six different attitudes from 48” onto concrete with all 10,000 round reliability / durability test weapons (After first completing 10,350 rounds. The extra 350 rounds were fired for a “Break In “first to put all test weapons on the same footing. Beretta has a machine that cycles all weapons before group testing. (Unknown how many cycles, I forgot to ask, but the cycling rate seemed to me to be about as fast as a sewing machine.). Well, I think that’s it. It’s been a while. Respectfully - kw
Kent Williams, how did Sig do? I don’t know, but they had some in inventory, and the p226 did well in the trials so I just wonder if they tested it and if there’s any data.
I have a P228 West German and a P229 both 9mm. Both are stock. Each has more than 5K rounds fired. I clean them after every trip to the range (250 to 500 rounds). I have only had failures with aluminum case ammo. I have taken a mule deer, hog and a coyote with the P228. I sent both back to Sig for a sonic cleaning and quality inspection last fall. They found no problems and replaced only the magazine springs. I have similar experience with my P226 Legion, It too shoots 1” groups as the others but malfunctions if I am not diligent in maintaining it. Not the case with my P226 SCT it runs without fault or cleaning and is often my carry pistol. My P239 in 357 Sig has been just as reliable. I cannot say as much for my Kimber 45, Colt 1911 or S&W M&P. Only equals I own is the CZ 75 and CZ 85, they too are near flawless performers.
Funny how he said this gun is literally 30-40 years old, and then mentioned modern polymer striker-fired( like a Glock). Well, 226/229 were made about the same time as a Glock around 1983. This makes a polymer striker-fired the same age.
5:07 on video I have legion 229 with no optic and if you use federal aluminum ammo 9mm 115 you will have Problems 500 in with failure to extract also white box Winchester ammo 9mm ball 115 run 300 rounds and see what happens it will not be good that my take. I have about 12,000 rounds through mine. If you keep gun clean it run 200 rounds of any type ammo but after that you better run high quality ammo or hotter ammo to keep it going.
Yes, a legion is not worth the money. Buy a used sig p229 anywhere from 1987 and prior. Install a SRT kit and day/night sights and you essentially have a legion. Save your money
I owned and carried a Gen3 Glock 19 for almost 10 years. It was / is a very accurate and totally reliable EDC CCW pistol. I've owned a SIG Sauer P229R for 12 years now. While it's larger and heavier than the Glock, it is also far more comfortable in my hands, easier to shoot well, needs no upgrading out of the box, is 100% totally reliable, and it's more accurate at distance than the Glock - which for me became more and more noticeable and obvious once past 25 yards. At 50 yards, even more so. At 100 yards, it's no contest - the P229 stomps the Glock 19. My Gen3 G19 cost $550, new, in 2010. After upgrading its cheap plastic sights, its terrible plastic trigger, and sticking on some Talon Grips, it cost me just short of $800. My SS P229R cost me $730, new, and it came with steel SIGLite tritium night sights. In 2015, I installed SIG's Short Reset Trigger (SRT) kit, cost $40... done. Good things! 👍
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not a stock P229-Legion-RX ... I know because I own one. Visually, that's not the standard Legion trigger, and that's not the standard Legion grip. Hard to say what else has changed ... but having one of each of the four Legions myself (P220, P226, P229, and P938), I know exactly what they should looks like. Is an impartial test of a gun really an impartial test, if it's been heavily customized and tested without disclosing that? I'm just sayin' ...
My bad ... you're right. The basic premise still is interesting though ... that you did a "Does this gun Suck" review on a modified gun. My suggestion for the future would be to stay stock, and then the results are pristine and uncontested. Other than that, a great review video and I like the idea for the series.
3:56 - "...it's not...the dinosaur people might think it is." {missed opportunity to pointedly glance down at John's shirt...} :) Professionalism - 9/10 10:35 - 10:55 - Professionalism dropping down to 8...7.5... That's more like it!
They seem to have drifted away from 10mm Legions, 👎... I doubt the .45acp Legion is realistic... the 9x19mm & 9mm +P is way more popular in 2018... more than a .45acp or .40 in a Legion...
DA/SA pistols don't suck unless they do. If you prefer striker fires that are the same pull from shot one to an empty magazine, that's fine. However, there are good arguments for DA/SA pistols. Paul Harrell has an excellent video on training for the DA pull and then the DA to SA transition. I would also argue that he DA/SA pistols inherently have nicer trigger pulls than striker fired pistols.
I own 2 sigs at present, my beloved P938 (my EDC) and a P226 Rx with Tactical light (my home invasion/burglar buster). The wife wants my 938, so in exchange, I get to go purchase a P229 Legion Rx for my EDC...hahaha. Think I got a sweet deal. Love Sigs if you hadn't noticed. Peace.
Please tell the chicken story at some point in the series!!! Lol, great idea for a video series, guys! I'm really looking forward to seeing your results.
My 1996 Sig P229 has the ergonomics of a brick. SRT is great but I don’t enjoy shooting it. The new ones hopefully are better designed than the early German frame ones. Can’t get new ones in CA , but we can get the P-01 which is similar but with far superior ergonomics.
I can tell you that the Romeo 1 on my P320RXC is not ready for prime time. When I actually carried the gun every day, the "MOTAC" sensor kept the dot on all day (because the gun is attached to me, and I'm moving), and I went through a battery every 2-4 weeks. I do not trust it for an everyday carry.
I have a p229 dark elite. I can't speak for the legion. But I have owned a cz po6 the 40 s&w version of the po1. Incredible pistol wish I hadn't Sold it. I ca. Say my sig p229 dark elite edc with a romeo I pro amd tlr 8 ligh5 ,lazer combo is the best pistol I have ever owned or shot. The most acurat3 and reliable pistol I have ver owned. I have had glock 19 owners shot is and out shot with my sig for the first time with their glock 19 they have had for 10 years.
I own a P229 legion rx. I also have the same problem with ejection. But it only happens when I’m using the 9mm blazer brass ammo. Happened to me once in 200 rounds, then twice in another 200 round session. Did a 150 round session of federal train and protect ammo. Never had an ejection issue. Looking forward to see what test ammo you guys are going to use. I called sig to ask about the ejection problem and they told me it might be the ammo. They told me to use a different brand. If the issue still persisted. I can send the gun to them to have it repaired. Also would like to suggest if you can test the extractor or inspect it after the 1000 round mark where you guys clean the gun. Saw a forum post that some guns had a damaged extractor or needed lubrication.
I don't know anyone who hates the 229 or the 226...since I was a kid these have been regarded extremely highly.
I’ve been carrying a 229 for over 17 years now and it’s a Great platform. Todd was a Great guy and dearly miss him. He showed me ho to be a better shooter.
Great video - lucky gunner is one of the most underrated channels on TH-cam
craig vandeweg true story! I think its because it doesn’t make as many videos. It averages about 1-2 a month whereas others average 3 to sometimes 4 a week. Big difference.
knine1833 I don’t read any comments unless someone comments at me. I really don’t care what people think nor do I have the time or patience to read what they have to say. I have way better things to do with my time
Their ammo prices are awesome too
I'm no pistol expert by any means but all I do know after my 25 years of being a cop and using three different department issued pistols over that duration is that the Sig 229 .40 was by far my favorite. No issues whatsoever and since my retirement I've expanded my Sig inventory with this pistol and another. Love them all.
Holy cow! John has lost a lot of weight! Great job, dude.
Seriously i keep asking what diet he did and what exercises if any because he lost a lot of weight and looks great
jfalken86 wait is this the same guy who was on the channel shooting the wilson combat xc1? Wow
Something tells me he went the staple route. Maybe not. Regardless the man is looking healthier and that's what's important.
Low carb diet and a whole lot of exercise. John might chime in with details, but I'm pretty sure that's the jist of it.
Eat less, move more.
I got to see it in person last weekend. I am interested to see how John's experience with it goes.
Hey john
Fomer USSS, so I have my own experience behind this thing, and have heard the experiences of literal hundreds of others behind it. The P229 just works. Period. As an issued weapon (and I've gotta say, you guys picked THE most Gucci/new variant of the pistol possible.) It out performs the Glock 19 in reliability and ease (without need for modification/adjustment in hardware or biomechanics) at high round count. And one huge factor for anyone issued these, the P229 is not a human hand flesh eater like the G19 is. (I have experience with both as duty weapons.) There are more gremlins with a G19 than a P229. And by that I mean neither gun in my experience stops running. But with the G19: Slide bite. Sites walking. Trigger (plastic) rod walking out. Pig nose, etc. The P229 has always gone bang with no such issues.
I've used both independent of my service. My observations: the G19 absolutely sucks when suppressed (it hates it, not worth the effort. It ejects its magazine, it likes to puke unfired rounds out of the top, it has a lot of hang ups due to slide velocity acceleration with the back pressure from a suppressor), it hates old magazines (worn mag springs will struggle to feed the last round in mag unless it's an fmj, they will eject themselves upon firing), all polymer components are subject to deformation (the mag release rounds out exacerbating the self dropping mag problem, the recoil spring guide rod droops, the frame pignoses), and lastly the sights are very fragile (mine have multiple chips and have randomly moved here and there).
Sig 229 experiences: the magazines hate grit (small amounts of sand will totally compromise the magazine leading to very interesting malfunctions), the gun hates weak ammo, and the trigger gets stiffer as the gun gets dirty.
The sig has had WAY less issues while shooting suppressed but even shooting without I have had way smoother performance. The big issue so far has been cleanliness. The gun doesn't like to play dirty. However, it at least holds on to its magazines.
The gen5 glocks solve all of your complaints.
@Nathan Kim Kinda dumb that people say stuff like this...my first pistol was a G19, but that's because I couldn't justify a P229 or P226 at the time. But the P226/P229 was a gun that I was accurate with from the moment I picked it up when I was 18, the Glock has taken a good bit of training to get comfortable with.
The Sig also has the data to back up its claims in terms of reliability, with the only competitor being the Beretta 92. Glock is good for the money, and I have been considering picking up a G45 MOS, BUT if money wasn't an object I would adopt the Sig P229/P226.
Thank you!
both work fine. if the g 19 hurts your hand then go to a gynecologist and let them know ur pussy hurtz
Just came across this video and have one question; Does it suck or doesn't it? I can't find any follow-up video's...
Can we get an update of the sig p229 legion? Its been months
www.luckygunner.com/lounge/does-this-gun-suck-custom-sig-p229-legion-rx/
We were issued P226s in the British Army for a good while before they moved to Glock 17s. I really liked the Sig
Andy McNab of the elite 22nd SAS unit said in a few articles, the SOF guys liked SIG Sauer P line... more than Beretta 92F, HK, Glock, S&W...
@@DavidLLambertmobile - I was issued a Browning Hi-power then Sig P226 and later a Glock 17 and preferred the Sig. With McNabb (real name Steven Mitchell) though, he left the army in the early 90s though, when Glocks were relatively new and people didn't take them as seriously back then.... but a lot of guys preferred the Sig to striker fired pistols.
10,000 rounds roughly equates to $7000 in ammo these days.
Ok? This is almost as bad as the people who state obvious stuff about the 2nd Amendment on a video talking about unconstitutional laws. We all felt the pain of the increased ammo prices...
3400 bucks for practice ammo. Not sure how you are getting 7k
@@crazycowdogs9830 new shooter? this was a year ago. if you could even find any ammo.
I think why some people might say that a SIG Legion 'suck' is that they (SIG that is) hyped them big time and that they definitely carry a premium price tag. SIG have a really solid reputation from real world usage that few can argue against.
The ones that say they suck, wouldnt if they could afford them. Just sayin'
You should test trigger pull at the beginning and at end of the test.
This title is somehow simultaneously not clickbait, but also pure clickbait. Bravo
I REALLY like my P229! It has the 'short-reset-trigger'. GREAT Pistol!
Has there been a follow up on this? I didn’t see a blog post on your website or a video? Thanks man!
This video wasn't followed up properly on the blog. Would be nice to finish it :p
No. It doesn’t suck. 😁
Are you still on the run for attacking Chuck? 😳
#spoileralert
Chuke's Outdoor Adventures Hey, Dude! I just subd to ur channel so get to work, 😂😂😂 Happy New Year!
Theses people piss me off too.
I want the p226 legion rx though which one is better in your opinion
Wow. Did not know Tod Green passed away. He’d plow through with the old school DA/SA pistols high round count. Right now the SIG deals are in the police trade ins. The 40 229 is the most popular.
I thought the police trade ins were a deal until I picked up a CPO 226 for $475. If no one told you that was a CPO gun, you would swear it was a brand new gun. BTW, CPO are certified pre-owned guns returned by the factory.
Weapon Shield grease all day. Best I’ve found.
Ive never shot a 229 with an optic, but i cant think of any polymer pistol id trade an old Sig 229 for. Probably the best pistol ive shot, and ive shot plenty. But thatss just my opinion, thats why theres so many different guns
Let's all take a second to recognize how bad ass that t-shirt is. 😂
I bought my tee turtle at a convention :P
Not a professional shooter but have enjoyed my 229 .40 for over 25 years.. wished I had bought more..
It'll be interesting. I have a p229 Scorpion Elite in .40, carry daily and love it. The SRT on it is something else..Cheers
My 226 Legion has been nothing but flawless for the past 4 years. This gun has converted many of my friends from Glocks to Sig’s.
People love glocks until they shoot my sig p229 dark elite. Then they go buy one and have a better shooting gun and not carry a ugly pistol anymore.
Please post a follow up video on this gun.
Currently shootings p226 legion. Very pleased with accuracy and non stop performance.
nope, my P229 doesn't suck. I have only had 1 malfunction in 8 years of use.
Older Sigs don't suck.
grantorino2009 not true, have bought 5 in the he past 5 years and not one malfunction 😎, don’t get me wrong, every manufacturer makes a 🍋
I appreciate the fact that Chris is not so ego involved that he is having another gun expert assist him with these videos.
This is awesome. Great set of videos to come and I’m excited about this first pick!
Perfect timing guys. I’m considering buying one of these guns this year. Thank you!!!
@J Tommy I did! I love it! Grip is a little thick for my very average sized hands but other than that, I think it’s a great gun. Put a holosun optic on it to boot. I’ve done some training with it and I’ve had no malfunctions or hiccups with it.
Ok. I have to say your gun photos are spotless and incredible!
You guys are doing awesome work between your Lucky Gunner Labs ballistics tests and your TH-cam series! Keep making content, I'm gonna stay tuned. And please ship direct to customer in NY, it's perfectly legal and I'd love to buy from you guys, but after FFL fees it's not cost-effective for me.
If the gun was 500.00 dollars, i.e. affordable, everyone would be falling all over themselves to buy them, and saying they are the second coming... Same thing happened when HK dropped the VP9, now HK is cool, because it’s “affordable.”I never have an opinion about something I feel I can’t afford. Next we’ll have people trying say that a Toyota Avalon is just as good as Lexus GS, and that GS is actually a crappy over priced car. Personally, I like Avalon’s, I buy Avalon’s, and one day when I feel I can afford it, I will by GS -I’m not going to go around trying to convince everyone that a Lexus GS is trash car😉✊🏿
Only Lexus drivers are trash. Nothing wrong with the cars. They don't make anything I like, but they are good cars.
How is a $1,200 quality pistol not affordable? Are you poor and stricken with bad credit or just a cheap skate? In the year 1911 you could get a Colt 1911 for about $30. The gold standard was in effect and an ounce of gold was $20.67. A $25 gold piece was a 1/2 ounce and worth about twice as much as the melt weight. So if you figure that gold is around $1,200 an ounce today, I would argue that a quality semiautomatic pistol cost no more today than it did then.
@@mattmarzula honestly, that's kind of a dumb analysis. The fact is, all technology gets cheaper over time. The first cell phones were huge, some even required a case they'll not all, and cost as much as a high-end personal computer would today. Now you can get a smartphone, that's easily two or three, or five, orders of magnitude more powerful for $200. The same is true with guns. Yes, in 1911, a Colt 1911 might have cost a lot of money - but that's because it was new technology, it was still very much a hand fitted item, and there wasn't a whole lot of competition. Now we have plastic guns, that are mass-produced in robotic factories, for pennies on the dollar that they would have been years ago. So $1,200 might not be at astronomical price for a pistol, but considering that you can get a Glock that is every bit as reliable for closer to $400, it is a substantial difference that most people don't need to pay. In short, it's not so much that the price has gone up for the higher end, so much as it is now there are a lot more people who can afford a quality firearm, who maybe couldn't before.
Not sure what your point is. 10k rounds of decent ammo will cost more than the purchase price of the pistol. Are there other pistols available that cost less than the Sig and still work as well? Sure. But all gun companies are in the business to make money. One of the reasons striker guns are so popular is because they are very cheap to produce. Gun companies know this and market them heavily. Alloy framed TDA guns are not cheap to produce and the profit margins are lower. That doesn’t mean they’re bad guns. It also doesn’t mean that they would be more popular if they were cheaper. The Sig Pro is a really great pistol priced the same as most SF pistols. But they’re not flying off the shelf either.
@@thewalls7770 My main point is that price is a reflection of the value that any one places on any product. I'm interested in performance. Its been well documented that the Legion series performs, so I don't know why after two years folks are still talking about whether or not Legions perform - They do. Most complaints around the web that I've seen seem to center around price, and as I tried to say a few sentences earlier, price is subjective, and doesn't make the gun suck - Lucky Gunner did a review on the Legion P229 a couple years back and the review was favorable. So why is it that "the does it suck series" start with this particular pistol? Thoughts?
I have a 229 Extreme. Zero malfunctions of any sort in over 5 years. I also have a romeo 1 which so far has been perfect. I would be shocked if there's any way anyone could find a reason to say a 229 "sucks". Maybe people have different preference, but the SIG 229/226 pistols are pretty solid. Looking forward to the series.
Number of years is irrelevant. Number of rounds is what is important. Also, type of shooting. Guns tend to stop working more when doing more demanding shooting tasks.
BMAH don’t know round count. I would estimate between 5-7k. Majority of those in uspsa competition.
@@jonathanfrost944 100 rounds a month isn't very many.
BMAH damn bro, you’re dedicated to making him seem wrong. Don’t be a HATER.
Painting & Stuff lol
>Tries to debunk the "Sig Sauer's current quality control is [allegedly] questionable" thing
>Then proceeds to test one of their proven DA/SA guns, instead of the P320 or P365 which started that problem for Sig. When people say Sig sucks now, we usually say "except their 226 line, which is still good."
LinkHyrule03, I think a lot of knowledgeable people would say that Sig handguns across the board aren’t as good as they used to be. The old German guns with the stamped slides were wonderful. No need for “short reset triggers” because their triggers didn’t suck from the factory. And their slides weren’t the galling, heavy stainless ones like they have now because of the stupid.40 S&W cartridge that mandated the change. The p229 should have never existed, because it should have stayed the p228. Which most people don’t even remember existed.
Not true. Plenty of people have lamented the declining quality of the P220 series since the early 2000s, including a few commenters here.
Huh, I didn't know that their DA/SA guns have also been hit by their quality problem, allegedly.
@@kingwiththeax6880 I have a West German 226 and 228. Great guns.
The NJ State Police sued SIG Sauer over the "classic" line P229R TDA or traditional DA trigger. SIG Sauer blamed NJ's steel case 9mm training ammunition. NJ disliked the contract SIG models.
The last update was June 2019 at 3,495 rounds. Why did you stop?
Get the SAO variant, maybe the P226. I purchased the 229.
The only bad thing is the "Legion" finish. It will have heavy holster wear and chipping within a week if you carry and train. Boba Fett look.
Capable of 100yd hits on 10" target. Repeatedly.
Romeo1 Pro sight has held up, but is a bit "holographic" vs a Holosun or RMR. Works but you may want a different one.
I would repurchase but most likely the P226 SAO Legion RX.
Is there a follow up video? What was the result? I’m scrolling through, but you make a lot of videos …. I’m currently saving up for a 226 legion RXP sao. Just trying to see every review I can these
Legion is overpriced, buy a reg p229 and put an SRT in it, good enough. I know that's not all the legion is but for what you get it's not worth it being 50% more
If not for the "shooter ready" posture that John always has, I would've thought he was a different person. Doin' great, brother.
Awesome new series cant wait for the results and future episodes!
Chris - Happy Holidays and THANK YOU for ALL you, your colleagues, and Lucky Gunner do for our community. Empirical, fact-based investigations, combined with real expertise - and conveyed without arrogance, but with precise articulateness - are rare and to be highly valued. Your testing and analyses are all that and more.
I believe this will be a great and highly valuable series of TH-cams, but I’d respectfully offer an idea that you may wish to consider adding to your experiment:
- Many months ago, one of your videos proclaimed that “revolvers were more-tolerant of neglect, while autoloaders were more-tolerant of abuse.” That’s absolutely correct (imho), and it is supported by my 50+ years of admittedly amateurish shooting experiences.
- So, after the “torture test” is completed, why not let the firearm (and a couple fully loaded magazines) sit - UNTOUCHED - for a couple years . . . and then see if they’ll successfully cycle/fire (perhaps) twenty consecutive rounds (two or three magazines)?
- Even better (and I don’t know if this approach is common in the small arms industry, but it is widely used in fixed-wing tactical aviation research, development, test and evaluation), why not try to accelerate the factors that make autoloaders more-prone to failures when they been unattended for years (e.g., possibly, something as simple as a fan blowing ambient temperature air over the firearm for perhaps 18 or 24 months would accelerate the “lubricant drying effects” on rails, striker mechanisms, extractors, ejectors, etc.)?
I have been carrying a 229 in 357sig for years and use it as a rang gun regularly. Never had any issues of any kind. Accuracy wise I can hit a man size target ar 50yrds without any effort
I'd like to see some kind of Springfield XD get tested, whether the XD, XD Mod 2, or XDM
Tadicuslegion78 XDMs are fantastic.
If I remember correctly, 10,000 rounds is what the US Army was doing with each lot of Beretta 92SF x 4 for each new lot. The test was at Aberdeen Proving Ground. I was told that the maximum average with 4 x 92’s had to be 8 malfunctions or less to pass. A lot of folks were saying that the 92SF wouldn’t hold up, so they took one of the four from the last lot and ran it until it broke. According to the engineers the 92SF tested ran to about 40,000 rounds before suffering a catastrophic malfunction. Aberdeen tested all available .40 S&W semi autos in 1996 under contract to INS. The Beretta 96D Brigadier averaged 4 malfunction for the 10,000 round durability tests. The second place averaged 29 malfunctions. We also added an Ammunition Compatibility test with all 40 S&W ammunition available. The Beretta 96D passed the test without any malfunctions, The others all “choked” and didn’t pass the test. But...that was in 1996 and I have to believe that if the tests were duplicated today that most of the entries would have passed. (Tests: Durability / reliability, Accuracy, Plugged Barrel Test, Sand and Dust Test, Corrosion Test, Drop Test from six different attitudes from 48” onto concrete with all 10,000 round reliability / durability test weapons (After first completing 10,350 rounds. The extra 350 rounds were fired for a “Break In “first to put all test weapons on the same footing. Beretta has a machine that cycles all weapons before group testing. (Unknown how many cycles, I forgot to ask, but the cycling rate seemed to me to be about as fast as a sewing machine.). Well, I think that’s it. It’s been a while. Respectfully - kw
Kent Williams, how did Sig do? I don’t know, but they had some in inventory, and the p226 did well in the trials so I just wonder if they tested it and if there’s any data.
Until next time...lol.
Outstanding men! Eager to see the results. Looking at the p226 Legion for a year. Handled it in shop & was very impressed.
I have a P228 West German and a P229 both 9mm. Both are stock. Each has more than 5K rounds fired. I clean them after every trip to the range (250 to 500 rounds). I have only had failures with aluminum case ammo. I have taken a mule deer, hog and a coyote with the P228. I sent both back to Sig for a sonic cleaning and quality inspection last fall. They found no problems and replaced only the magazine springs. I have similar experience with my P226 Legion, It too shoots 1” groups as the others but malfunctions if I am not diligent in maintaining it. Not the case with my P226 SCT it runs without fault or cleaning and is often my carry pistol. My P239 in 357 Sig has been just as reliable. I cannot say as much for my Kimber 45, Colt 1911 or S&W M&P. Only equals I own is the CZ 75 and CZ 85, they too are near flawless performers.
that was nice weather to shoot, gets the grit flowing.
thanks. Always worth watching
How about 500 rounds on the hottest and coldest day of the year.
I've been hoping for something like this since Todd Greens untimely passing. Thank you guys.
Great Rockabilly closing tune!
Also I’ve got a few hogs on my place in TX. I know the 229 in 357sig works very well on them.
Funny how he said this gun is literally 30-40 years old, and then mentioned modern polymer striker-fired( like a Glock). Well, 226/229 were made about the same time as a Glock around 1983. This makes a polymer striker-fired the same age.
5:07 on video I have legion 229 with no optic and if you use federal aluminum ammo 9mm 115 you will have Problems 500 in with failure to extract also white box Winchester ammo 9mm ball 115 run 300 rounds and see what happens it will not be good that my take. I have about 12,000 rounds through mine. If you keep gun clean it run 200 rounds of any type ammo but after that you better run high quality ammo or hotter ammo to keep it going.
Keep this up guys really interested in this data and love your hard and dedicated work
I prefer an all metal single double over any other pistol type. Triggers are so much better than a striker fired.
Yes, a legion is not worth the money. Buy a used sig p229 anywhere from 1987 and prior. Install a SRT kit and day/night sights and you essentially have a legion. Save your money
I guess this series never went anywhere or maybe was derailed by the pandemic. Unfortunate. I would've liked to see the results.
John has the LE stance when he is talking sometimes. The hands up at center mass reminds me of training back in the day. Great vids btw.
I owned and carried a Gen3 Glock 19 for almost 10 years. It was / is a very accurate and totally reliable EDC CCW pistol.
I've owned a SIG Sauer P229R for 12 years now. While it's larger and heavier than the Glock, it is also far more comfortable in my hands, easier to shoot well, needs no upgrading out of the box, is 100% totally reliable, and it's more accurate at distance than the Glock - which for me became more and more noticeable and obvious once past 25 yards. At 50 yards, even more so. At 100 yards, it's no contest - the P229 stomps the Glock 19.
My Gen3 G19 cost $550, new, in 2010. After upgrading its cheap plastic sights, its terrible plastic trigger, and sticking on some Talon Grips, it cost me just short of $800.
My SS P229R cost me $730, new, and it came with steel SIGLite tritium night sights. In 2015, I installed SIG's Short Reset Trigger (SRT) kit, cost $40... done.
Good things! 👍
So funny he said that. I was thinking the whole video that his hat is pretty cool.
I bet it does really well in 10k. Their barrel coatings and their plain black coatings hold up really well!
I would like to see Manny review it. I know it’s a gun made by the enemy but I would like to see his opinions lol.
Way to rock the new look John!!!
song at the end was in point
Wow, what a tease...
John looks good, keep up the work! And great video!
Props to John on loosing all the weight! Way to go man!
Good stuff gents, looking forward to the series.
I have Exeter made 227 elite and 220 legion. This quality control issue is a myth. I love my sigs and so does everyone else who I’ve let shoot them
Really looking forward to updates on this topic!
Great video looking forward to the results
I am a Sig Sauer fan. I had a P229 in .40 cal. I hated it, absolutely frickin hated it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not a stock P229-Legion-RX ... I know because I own one. Visually, that's not the standard Legion trigger, and that's not the standard Legion grip. Hard to say what else has changed ... but having one of each of the four Legions myself (P220, P226, P229, and P938), I know exactly what they should looks like. Is an impartial test of a gun really an impartial test, if it's been heavily customized and tested without disclosing that? I'm just sayin' ...
Maybe watch the video again. We pointed out everything that was changed.
My bad ... you're right. The basic premise still is interesting though ... that you did a "Does this gun Suck" review on a modified gun. My suggestion for the future would be to stay stock, and then the results are pristine and uncontested. Other than that, a great review video and I like the idea for the series.
Lucky Gunner Ammo where did you find the grips? I checked gray guns website and can’t find it.
3:56 - "...it's not...the dinosaur people might think it is." {missed opportunity to pointedly glance down at John's shirt...} :) Professionalism - 9/10 10:35 - 10:55 - Professionalism dropping down to 8...7.5... That's more like it!
Sig needs to do a p227 legion!😎
They seem to have drifted away from 10mm Legions, 👎... I doubt the .45acp Legion is realistic... the 9x19mm & 9mm +P is way more popular in 2018... more than a .45acp or .40 in a Legion...
DA/SA pistols don't suck unless they do. If you prefer striker fires that are the same pull from shot one to an empty magazine, that's fine. However, there are good arguments for DA/SA pistols. Paul Harrell has an excellent video on training for the DA pull and then the DA to SA transition. I would also argue that he DA/SA pistols inherently have nicer trigger pulls than striker fired pistols.
Ok, where is the follow up video to this?
Please do a video on the Langdon Elite Beretta 92!!!
Yeah go shoot the 2 gun action challenge match over in Tucson AZ. Karl at InRangeTV should be able to fix you up.
My 229 legion SAO is my favorite
I own 2 sigs at present, my beloved P938 (my EDC) and a P226 Rx with Tactical light (my home invasion/burglar buster). The wife wants my 938, so in exchange, I get to go purchase a P229 Legion Rx for my EDC...hahaha. Think I got a sweet deal. Love Sigs if you hadn't noticed. Peace.
John wins the 'Best T shirt Ever' award.
god i keep thinking baldy's hat is a Dunkin' Donuts hat and it cracks me up
When you going to review the Sig P365..???
Please tell the chicken story at some point in the series!!! Lol, great idea for a video series, guys! I'm really looking forward to seeing your results.
Based on my own less than stellar 229 experience, I'm expecting failures to extract to increase. Hope I'm wrong
Good job
This is going to be a great series!
Wonder if there will be any finish left on it after 10k??
MIScaletech lol, very accurate question. Great guns but their new PVD finish is rubbish for a 1300.00 firearm.
My 1996 Sig P229 has the ergonomics of a brick. SRT is great but I don’t enjoy shooting it. The new ones hopefully are better designed than the early German frame ones. Can’t get new ones in CA , but we can get the P-01 which is similar but with far superior ergonomics.
True or false. Sig's quality control has dipped because of diversification into other interests? Spread to thin?
I can tell you that the Romeo 1 on my P320RXC is not ready for prime time. When I actually carried the gun every day, the "MOTAC" sensor kept the dot on all day (because the gun is attached to me, and I'm moving), and I went through a battery every 2-4 weeks. I do not trust it for an everyday carry.
I have a p229 dark elite. I can't speak for the legion. But I have owned a cz po6 the 40 s&w version of the po1. Incredible pistol wish I hadn't Sold it. I ca. Say my sig p229 dark elite edc with a romeo I pro amd tlr 8 ligh5 ,lazer combo is the best pistol I have ever owned or shot. The most acurat3 and reliable pistol I have ver owned. I have had glock 19 owners shot is and out shot with my sig for the first time with their glock 19 they have had for 10 years.
Where are you with the review? No updates... are you done?
Interested to know what you think. Very close to buying a 229 Legion. Wish it was not going to take "months" to hear your thoughts.
I own a P229 legion rx. I also have the same problem with ejection. But it only happens when I’m using the 9mm blazer brass ammo. Happened to me once in 200 rounds, then twice in another 200 round session. Did a 150 round session of federal train and protect ammo. Never had an ejection issue. Looking forward to see what test ammo you guys are going to use.
I called sig to ask about the ejection problem and they told me it might be the ammo. They told me to use a different brand. If the issue still persisted. I can send the gun to them to have it repaired.
Also would like to suggest if you can test the extractor or inspect it after the 1000 round mark where you guys clean the gun. Saw a forum post that some guns had a damaged extractor or needed lubrication.
where is the follow up video, it has been three months now
Updates? I just ran mine in a 5 day combat course with the sig optic. zero malfunctions....and i beat the hell out of it