HOW IT WORKS: E61-style Deep Dive (Lelit, Rocket, ECM, Profitec, etc)
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Bianca Video:
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Mara X Video:
• BEST BUDGET HEAT EXCHA...
Whole Latte Love videos on E61:
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• How To Clean E61 Brew ...
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TIME CUES:
0:00- Introducing Tech Lance
1:35- AG1 Ad
2:48- Thermosyphon
3:37- Inside the E61-style Group
7:05- Gicleur/Jiggler Orifice (lol)
8:31- Pressure Release Valves
10:40- How Water Moves in Mara X (HX)
15:14- How Water Moves in Bianca (Dual Boiler)
20:03- Worth it in 2023?
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Thanks for watching! Let me know below if you'd like to see other machines broken down like this! (Also like and subscribe and all that crap)
oh fo sho
Legend
Which one do you actually recommend?
I thought 3k euro for ecm would have everything needed
And just at the end of your video I got that it's not thermally stable:((
I would like to see a deep dive into lever machines, vintage levers and spring levers taken apart would be great!
Props to Lelit for always being transparent with their hardware
The continued deep-dive nerdy espresso material is the best! These are an instant-watch for me. Thanks for the killer content Lance! 🎉
Heck yeah! Need people like you because these are my worst performing haha! But I keep em for the small crowd including yourself (and to appease my inner nerd)
@@LanceHedrick Yes please keep making these videos!
THIS! THIS is the bonus content that puts this channel above else.
As an E61 owner, super happy this exists! Thanks for the consistent and hard work Lance!
love this series, can't wait to watch the 60 previous episodes!
Thank you for sharing this. Loving the detailed breakdowns.
I’m not sure what took me so long to find the channel, but holy smokes my guy, I am pleased.
Heck yeah! Stoked you enjoy
As a bianca owner I have needed this video for quite some time. I will be better equipped to answer people's questions now :)
Fantastic! Hope you find it helpful
We been having those machines on our shop constantly. We have replaced so far , water pumps, solenoid valves, heating elements, whole e61 overhaul and we still have a few other those in the shop waiting for the diagnosis
Of all the E61 guides I've watched, this one makes the most sense!
Great video Lance. The chamber below the E61 group is for a mini pre infusion- it works by opening at 8 bars and holding the pressure at 8 bars until it fills with liquid. The group pressure then climbs to full pressure. You can see this behaviour on the pressure gauge. Its also why the spring has to be changed when fitting a flow control device (to disable this feature).
Correct! On normal e61s. On lelits, it doesn't do that.
@@LanceHedrick ah ok!
Thansk to your videos Lance, I just got my Lelit Bianca! Opted for the white with dark wood handles. Love it!
I am the owner of a Profitec Pro 600. It's basically the little brother of the Pro 700. The 700 has a larger steam boiler and Rotary pump and my 600 has a smaller steam boiler and Vibration pump. I personally, like the way a vib pump "Ramps Up" in pressure and just seems a bit more gentle to the pick but that might be more theory than fact but even though, I love my 600 and it's been a great E-61 machine with amazing steam power! Thank you Lance for the great videos!!! These nerdy deep dives are exactly what I love!!!!
My precious 600. Love that machine. Have you got the flow control mod?
@@washedgeisha Yes, I have the Flow Control mod as well! I like to use it to mimic lever shots in darker coffees as I drink a lot of Traditional Italian style and then I'll do alot of long pre-infusions for lighter roasts
very thorough breakdown of how E61 espresso machines work, you can tell he's distilled many hours and hours reading about this stuff into 21 minutes. As someone who's done the same to understand the ins and outs of the E61 group head, thank you and keep up the good work Lance!
Man, that was super awesome to see physical cross sections of those machines. Great video!
Lance, I love these types of videos, please keep them coming! Also loved seeing the Sanremo YOU in the background. I have one and absolutely love it
Excellent video. Demystified my Rocket R58 for me. Thank you so much for doing this!
Always a moment of joy if you see a new video from The Hoffmeister or Lance appear in your timeline 😊
Thank you so much for making this video!
I didn't know I'd get so much out of a video like this. Thanks Lance, this is invaluable to me as a barista even though I don't use any of these machines.
More videos like this, please! Thank you Lance
Excellent and very helpful video. Thanks for the effort
Hey Lance! The video is amazing! It would be really great if you could do something similar explaining how saturated groups work, particularly given that there are no videos on that, and very little content online. ❤
This is so great ! Thks for your passion
Love this type of content!
For the anti-e61'ers, I really love my Alex Duetto.. The E61 is plenty fine by my amateur taste judgement lol. It's super easy and repeatable. No guess work and pretty straightforward operation with proper information.
Great stuff as always Lance.
love these videos, keep it up bro
Appreciate you!
Love my Mara X. Very cool walkthrough of the internals.
Thank you for showing!!
Thank you! :) always love your videos!
Thank you for the support!
The middle valve is for mechanical pre-infusion. The spring allows the valve to open when pressure reaches 2 bar or so, allowing some water to be diverted to the chamber, and so reducing the flow through the group. As the chamber fills with water, the air is compressed, resulting in a gradual ramp up of pressure to 9 bar. It is only a slight pre-infusion effect, but it can be increased by reducing the flow coming into the group (e.g. using flow control if you leave the stock spring in place). Flow control kits generally come with a stiffer spring that disables mechanical pre-infusion, with the idea that the user will have more control without it. The bottom valve is the one that matters for leaks.
Yes but not on lelit. Perhaps that was why I was questioning moniker "preinfusion chamber"
(I see your edit re: flow control. My main experience is with lelit which doesn't replace the spring because it is already stiff. Just adds needle because PI chamber isn't in these.)
@Lance Hedrick Ah okay. I only have experience with the Vibiemme and Profitec machines I have owned. Interesting that Lelit chose not to implement it when it is such a minor variation to their design. Testament to it not being very effective maybe? Love your videos by the way!
Appreciate you! And I know they were intentionally making it different from the normal e61 due to legal IP type stuff with faema. Hence my "e61 style" title lol
@@LanceHedrick I wonder what the effect would be if you replaced the middle spring on a Lelit Bianca with a softer (standard) one. Would the paddle still work properly, while getting a soft preinfusion without using it?
I am also wondering what you would have to do to emulate that spring preinfusion by using the paddle.
Great video! I recently rebuild my Rotary pump HX E61 ECM Technika IV group head after owning it for almost 10 years... feels like new! Also installed flow control while i was in there. PID & Dual Boiler would be nice, but for now i'm fine with cooling flushes...
Great content! Thanks again for the education. 👍
As an old espresso machine technician, I am pretty sure the bottom two springs in an E61 group head act as a soft pressure release, so that when you end a shot, you aren't getting 9ish bars blasting it out, it dampens the pressure release. Modern style E61s use a solenoid, and they usually have a cover or something metal to control the pressure release. They could also be an over pressure control device, if the the puck isnt allowing water to flow, allowing it to bleed out the pressure through the bottom springs.
You would be correct if this was a normal e61. That is NOT the case on Lelit machines. Cheers!
@@LanceHedrick Yeah, new E61 group heads are not the same as old ones, especially when you consider the rest of the machine that it is attached too. Great video as always, thanks!
Yay! Another video!!
Hope you enjoy!
Amazing video! Thank you!
This all makes me so much happier about my flair 58
You made an incredible choice
Same. If my Flair 58 ever breaks I'll buy a new one. Luckily that's not likely to happen.
For sure. That thing will last
Totally. The Flair rocks. I've got the Pro 2 and love the hands-on control over the pressure, pre-infusion, tapering... the whole experience.
More of this 🙏
You're the man 🤙
Listening to this while working on a lelit bianca. Beautiful ❤️
Such clutch timing! Just purchased a Profitec Pro 500 and I’m a tinkerer. Love the content bro
Heck yeah! Have fun with it!
Lance! The OPV bypass goes to the water reservoir. Love your videos!
Crap. I knew I might get something wrong since most of the tubes were gone on the Mara cut away.
Great video. Very interesting to see the inner workings.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed!
cool video, just a small thing to add: the first valve of the pre-infusion chamber opens at around 4~ish bar. So essentially, when the water pressure against the puck builds up, at 4~ish bar the valve opens until the chamber is filled completely. Then, once full, there is no other way for the water to go and the full 9~ish bar hit the puck. voila. Found this very ingenious when I read about it. Cheers from Germany
Yes on typical e61s. They don't have this feature on the lelit version
Notre Dame is where I went to school (and grew up). They’re called the Fighting Irish because way back in the day people were prejudice against Irish immigrants, and a journalist wrote about how the guys from ND were like a bunch of fighting Irishman as an insult, but the University embraced and took pride in the name. It’s one of the most historic programs in the country. South Bend is about an hour and a half from Chicago if you’re wondering.
Excellent, thanks!
Amazing content. Thanks 👍
Very cool Lance! Been really trying to weigh the pros and cons of an e61
Thanks for the explanation, would you be able to make a video explaining PID controls and what the parameters affect etc.
Thanks so much for sharing all your knowledge! Videos like this is why you are in my opinion the best coffee guy on you tube period. The one thing I don’t get is the trend to have stainless steel boilers. I understand the fear of lead but if the companies don’t make all the pluming in stainless steel as well it is defeating the purpose. Also copper or brass tubing linking up to stainless steel like the boiler causes galvanization which leads to corrosion and I would assume the heating element in the tank of these stainless steel boilers are probably brass as well.
Whoa, just watched the "ultimate midrange grinder showdown" vid before this, and the sound difference is huge! I'm always a proponent of leveling content as high as clarity will allow (because it's easier for a user to reduce volume with sliders than to boost it), so this is a big win in my ears.
This video is FASCINATING. Love the cutaways; it's like a live-action edition of The Way Things Work, but with fewer mammoths. Have you ever considered doing a dive like this on something completely custom-built instead of factory-made?
Great video! Thank you Lance!
Also, I guess we will have a Sanremo YOU review video soon.
This was amazing, thank you. It's probably too nerdy but I'd love to see some common maintenance tasks for the E61 (e.g., I'm about to try lubricating the brew handle, wish me luck!)
Man, it’s complicated! I am loving my Cafelat Robot even more.
Amazing! I'd love to see how modern thermocoil machines operate, such as Ascaso Steel and Decent
Thanks Lance.
Hi Lance, one thing I haven't understood is, what the OPV valve does in the Bianca, since the brew/pump pressure is controlled by the bypass valve in the bottom?
I just fixed my Bianca, it was leaking in to the drip tray. Very easy and pretty affordable.
I replaced the safety valve and the anti vacuum valve, (For the people who needs to know exactly , the horizontal valve is the 3 bar safety valve, and the vertical is the anti vacuum valve, it got switched up in the vid) a couple of wrenches and some PTFE tape and it works again.
I was super nervous, as I had to take off the thermo syphon tube, but it was very easy...
The vacuum valve serves two purposes, a small rod pushes a plastic gasket when the steam boiler hits boiling point, then seals the boiler so steam can be generated. Then when you shut it off, to prevent it from imploding as pressure drops, the gasket falls down, breaking the seal. I love how mechanical it all is, instead of electrical circuits.
Awesome content as usual. Any chance you could expand on the dual group head gauge please? Keen to get one for the mara x
I was digging every single minute of this video
Heck yeah! Thank you!
Your delivery is outstanding, please keep up the great work! I wonder if you think the ECM Puristika is sufficiently interesting to do an art of making espresso type show. I loved your review on Lelit Mara X and this breakdown video. It seems that the Puritisika at it's low price-point, PID control, , pressure control, brew pressure control (sorta), head gauge, and it's Espresso-centric orientation, is taylormade for you to do a deep dive on how to brew up excellent espresso using only it's features. I feel like you have crushed the e61's build and features and thank you for that. I would love to see the artistry of making a variety of espressos on an affordable yet espresso centric machine. I love the scientific approach you do so well. I think there is an excellent show in the making for those 99% of us that lack the fancier equipment. All of the above controls can be had out of the box for $1550. I really enjoyed the dial in a mystery coffee video and the Salami shots, this is helpful in a meaningful way to us home baristas. I want to see you show off your espresso artistry and a low priced yet well controlled machine might be just the ticket for that.
Thank You very much for all that you do!!
This was a super informative video. Your point about the easy maintenance makes me give the E61 machines a second look. But what are your thoughts about E61 versus saturated groups like the Lelit Elizabeth? Is there a machine you could recommend for reliability and quality under $2k? Thanks.
Your in-depth dives are appreciated and trusted. Would like an explanation of terms & comparison of different group head styles: conventional, lever, ring, saturated, semi etc. Thank you
I've often wondered how my Mara actually works, now i have some sort of idea, cheers.
Interesting to see the inside workings on all of this, thanks for such a thorough video! Out of curiosity, touching on what you said at the end about thermal stability difficulties.. what would your preference be for a machine that produces super tasty shots first (milk drinks aside) out of say, an E61 dual boiler with flow control, or even an E61 single boiler like the ECM Classika with flow control VS a Silvia Pro X with it's (limited) programmable up to 6 second pre-infusion - but arguably better thermal stability with it's semi-saturated grouphead?
Commenting for the algorithm; will watch when I have the time!
It is so every time you decide to explain us some very tricky technique employed to build these type of machines but it helps us also a lot to decide in the future with one of them to buy ... Thank you very ! I would be interested also by some of your Wonderfull explanations with the others systems and I mean as strong and semi pro as Group E61 from very good company like Lelit ECM Rocket .... Thank you again and bravo !
My understanding with the preinfusion chamber is that the large spring at the bottom is chosen to compress at a certain pressure under 9 bar. That way it fills that chamber to keep the pressure around, say, 4 bars, until it fills up and just stays open through the 9 bar shot. That's why flow control kits have a higher tension spring to put there.
Yes. I should've mentioned this was specific to Lelit. They don't utilize that like other e61 machines, which is around 2 bar. Lelit already had the stiff spring.
@@LanceHedrick I see, makes sense. But great video. I became more confident working on things by modding my OG Expobar Brewtus around '05. I believe that was the first consumer double boiler. As they added features like pid, pressure gauge, rotary, I added them to mine. I really don't feel a need to upgrade this nearly 20 year machine unless there is some significant grouphead or boiler advancement to be had. Saturated group or some sort of thermoblock thing? Anyway, just reinforcing what you said -- these machines are very serviceable.
Exactly. And that's crazy impressive, though not surprising re: life span of your machine. Keep at it!
Great video Lance - many thanks. I am soon to upgrade to probably a Lelit Beyonce - err, Bianca after 14 years on a Rancilio Silvia. It would be interesting to hear a list of your Must Do and Never Do when upgrading to a more complex machine. While I am experienced on using a single boiler, I don't assume that knowledge base would cover all the nuances to operating and caring for a dual boiler or a heat exchanger. Anyhow, it's just a thought.
Thanks for you great content.
Great video, thank you Lance! At the end of the video you refer to links for managing temperature, but I don't see any. I'm familiar with HX temperature management, but I've not seen much on how to manage temperature in an E61 dual boiler. Is there any need to worry about this? Or do I just walk up to my Quick Mill QM67 and pull a shot?
The video I mention is my review of the lelit Bianca!
Good for you getting those bigger sponsors lately.
Getting a Lelit Bianca delivered in a couple days (thanks for the review) and this is invaluable and available nowhere else. You sleigh Lance (see what I did there). Merry Christmas Lance if this is still legal to say.
Always with the teasers in the background 🎉
Had to do it!
Hello, really nice video. Just like you explained heat exchanger and E61 group heads, It would be cool if you could do a video about saturated groups to also fully understand them. Really great content
If I have a portafilter from an E61 head, will it fit on all other E61 heads?
Amazing video. You're the BEST. Question: Would the use of a flow control device cause water to be diverted into the drip tray? That is, if the flow control adds resistance at the gicleur, then wouldn't that cause pressure at the pump to increase and eventually push open the OPV valve? Conceptually, the flow control is really an "OPV fine tuning"?
I'd love it if you could do a similar video for the Breville machines. I know the dual boiler is likely to be similar, but it sure would be awesome if I could see a cutaway of the thermoblock versus the thermocoil. Your full breakdown of all the components was really helpful.
Hi Lance! thanks a lot for your videos!
I have a question, which one do you think is better between a DB saturated group like a Silvia Pro and a Heat exchanger E61 such as the profitec pro 400 in terms of longevity and reliability?
In my experience the heat exchangers run much hotter than dual boilers. Comparing Rocket Apartamento and Profitec 600 specifically. Now this is not necessarily good or bad. Some beans actually shine with the added heat. Just something to keep in mind.
Question: Pressure reading from group & pump, What do u usually saw, much different reading ?
What if you have an E61 style machine that has programmable buttons? How do you get that blooming style shot?
Hey, Lance. I’d love to see a video reviewing your favorite frothing pitchers. Cheers
So what would be the best non e 61 dual boiler or heat x change machine now? Espresso beginner enthusiast here.
Great video! I would love to hear about pumps from you 😁
Still looking forward to my BDB. BUT... great video! :)
More tech talk from Lance 🤘🏽
Definitely!
It seems like one of the major issues with E61 is temp stability, wondering if there is a different style of group head that does a better job with this? Any recommendations?
you should try the VBM super digital, mix between a decent espresso and a traditional style e61 machine!
It's on my list!
the Middle spring has less tension than the bottom one and will bypass and fill its chamber at about 4bar, the part its self is called the pre-infusion valve, allowing a brief 4bar pre-infusion.
you could demonstrate this by removing the bottom valve which doesnt remove the infusion valve, and run the head and watch it bypass at 4ish bar.
as you stated it makes no sense that it has 2x exhaust valves.
So on an E61 group head the cam is greased. how are we not getting grease in our coffee then?
I'm trying to get a La Scala Butterfly, with E61 group. Do you recommend it?
Is it possible to have an E61 where one can only heat the steam boiler? And if so who makes one?
At night time I like to drink hot choc and I don’t want to keep my portifilter boiler hot.
My Profitec 700 Pro could turn the steam boiler off but not the other way around
Fantastic info. Is it possible to produce tasty shots from a light roast with these machines? If so, is it hard work?
Lol watching this as I sip on some AG1 before my morning workout, and then I’ll proceed to pull a tasty shot of espresso from my E61 machine. Get out of my head, Lance.
Yes!!! IBS KING!
I love seeing you get the ad $
My goal is to not be down at the end of the fiscal year as I have been last two years haha
E61 like the profitec pro 400/500/600. Or go breville dual boiler for making 2 drinks a day mainly latte?
Has Mara X fixed issue of original Mara which bled steam from boiler safety valve right into internals, over time leading to issues with contacts and electronic parts? Some manufacturers have realized this issue with design working fine for large bodied machines but being detrimental for machines with small cases.
The deal with the two valves is that the pre-infusion valve has a pretty weak spring. When you start the pump, it'll moderate the pressure to the puck by bypassing the water from the pump until the pre-infusion compartment fills up. The pre-infusion pressure is set by the spring on that valve, and the pre-infusion time is dictated by the volume of the pre-infusion divided by the pump's flow rate. When you release the level, both valves open up, releasing the pressure off the puck, as well as emptying the pre-infusion compartment.
Also, I had been under the impression that the thermosiphon on my old-as ECM Giotto was connected to the steam boiler compartment. Clearly that's not the case, so thanks for the showing the cutout group head.
Correct. It works that way on normal e61 groups. not on lelit.
(Regarding the double spring function)
Hey Lance!
Firsy of all, Love your content!
Iam not considering myself an expert, but as far as I know, you've had few errors.
First, the preinfusion chamber does exactly that. The spring is set to approximately 2 bar, so until this chamber fills up (few secs), the brewing pressure cannot exceed this pressure.
Second, the OPV does not send the excess water to the drip tray, but rather to the tank or back to the pump.
You're both right and wrong. Normal e61 style do preinfuse as you suggest. Lelit does not. They are not the typical e61 and I said as much in the video.
As for the other, I misspoke. If the pressure valve releases at the top, that excess does, indeed, go to the drip tray. The excess does as you say. Cheers
nice!
Thank you! (And thanks for commenting!)
Maybe this is a silly question. Why don't they use a potentiometer for the pump instead of the mechanical flow control in the group head?