Sadly, it is begging to feel that way... Even at 1850 the queue times are ridiculous on my ret (20 mins for SS and Blitz) and blitz is just a complete lottery below 2000
Healers get insta Qs and mw/hpal/disc are amazing. Healers that literally use their cooldowns will go atleast 3-3 all the way until they hit their mmr (1700-2k), get instant qs, leave games cuz they can instantly get their next q and rating back, throw games because they can and have no repercussions. Meanwhile dps have 40 min qs and have to stay locked in the whole time just to lose rounds with people who have full defensives
Everyone complaining about q times I get that its frustrating, I have an idea, play a healer one day a week, even if its for an hour, if every dps did that it would charge q times up a lot, wanna help the game? heal the game
What Fire needs is a decent buff to Pyroblast damage in PvP during Combust, so it feels threatening and like it can actually 100-0 when no defensive is traded. The 8% buff to it was an absolute joke. It‘s good that Fire has less defensives than Frost and also much less consistent damage, its burst damage and finishing power are what need to be buffed. Oh, and it‘s the only Mage spec with completely useless spec-specific PvP talents. They need to come up with some good replacements for Flame Cannon, Heat Shimmer and WIF.
I stopped pvping altogether. People lying about their quote on quote 3k experience but can’t even link an 1800 achievement in 3’s. Then when you somehow even manage to form a group if you lose one time someone leaves. Seems like everyone just wants to be a solo shuffle/bg blits hero but it dosent feel the same. Getting 2200 in 3’s with two people you worked hard with hits different and I feel nothing from getting that in the other game modes. So after almost an entire season of this I gave up. Made a resto shaman and now I just raid and mythic plus.
As someone who plays blitz 80% of the time i think if you don't like the current situation of shuffle/2s/3s right now you should definitely try blitz out. Probably the biggest difference is how easily you can rank up compared to arena because of inflation.
Some classes are allowed to keep above 1m dps in rated pvp where they were never supposed to. To add insult to injury, some classes can’t be suppressed by anything but a hard stun. Pvp this season is in a deeply sad state.
Weird take tbh tbh. Why can disc/hpal/mw survive through 2 of said dps then? 😂 What's sad is when everything is nerfed and 2 dps classes are good and every healer is broken. They need to buff rsham and rdruid and it'll be super balanced
I was able to squeeze out a 2100 rating on a Windwalker solo shuffle last season of dragon flight (last few weeks of season). first time hitting 2100 so I'm not the best with pvp. If I were to push for rating at this stage in war within what do you think the equivalent to 2100 would be in solo shuffle due to the lack of inflation? 1800? 1600?
blizzard dont need to tune anything with shamans at all. they merely just need to make earthen stick to a player, and make spirit link a button you press regardless of range. instant A tier healer with 2 simple changes.
Outlaw is always been awesome and my most favorite spec,the one thing is ,the gameplay is mostly the same as DF and that feels a bit stale,everybody got new themes and stuff,you need to also be hyper when you play as you will do alot of things:))).Outlaw will always be my main but i would like a different theme all togheter like "BladeDancer" just make pistol shoot small handcrosbow or just throw knifes:)) BTE could be a charged throw,the thematic of a Bladedancer would be cooler to me,overall you will have a blast once you get some miles under the hood on Outlaw,there is so much you can do and you are not constricted by a fixed rotation.
The problem with DEV is how you can't do anything to carry your teamate. You pop your DEF + DMG CD and try to traumatise everyone then you'r start kitting. You can end a round with +15-20% over the second highest damage dealer and still loose. Your DMG is heavely spread and you are not that disruptive. Sure, warrior cries when they see you but dev get repititive and aren't good at carying bad players.
They should do something about the mobility of enh Shaman. The ability to remove slows has like 1 min cd and you can get slowed right after using the ability...
Outlaw is super fun but fighting Hpal just ruins it when you have no dispels. Double BoP + Searing Glare just denying so much alone, and that's not even looking at whatever CC the lobby has. Hpal being strong and popular just sucks for Outlaw. Can easily flip a losing match at the last second due to how strong immunities are in late dampening, and Outlaw is a dampening spec. When there aren't any Hpals/Rets though it's really strong. Assa, Feral, and Surv still counter it but it handles pretty much everything else at least evenly. And having counters is certainly fine. But BoP specifically just feels really unfun and sucks to lose a game against a completely uncounterable BoP on the kill target, Bubble on the healer, etc. while you just have to survive the 10 second onslaught in max dampening. Doesn't feel like getting outplayed, just rock paper scissored. Meanwhile Hunters get a dispel for some reason despite already benefitting from being the only ranged physical class lol But I think that's why not as many people are playing it. It's difficult enough on its own, but there's nothing fun about 1-2 pallies in every single lobby when they just get to deny a win 3 times per round so you have to work 4x harder. Worst is when the pally is the random 500 cr toon in a 2k lobby, so even if you beat him 2/3 times, one dumb win due to just being such a hard counter suddenly tanks whatever rating you were going to gain.
With the CDR Outlaw relies on to keep vanish and AR up, you have to instantly swap off the BOP and continue spamming combo point spenders on anyone you can. If you don't, AR will fall and the spec really slows down. I've learned no matter what, you need to keep spamming combo spenders to keep the spec turned up on full tilt. Also, vanishing as much as possible during the opening moments to keep AR up as well, is important. As the CDR will bring those vanishes back quick by the time AR also comes back. I've found trinketing somewhat early so you keep the up time on the buffs and continue spamming CDR is important.
@@evanway478 Yeah realistically it's actually easier than Sub due to being so inherently tanky, and CDR making its windows unpredictable, but in order to get offensive value you need go be really aware of many different things at once while making straight up split second adaptations/decisions or else you'll fall really flat and just end up losing to an easier high uptime pressure DPS like BM or Fury. So there are tradeoffs and it plays very differently from pretty much any other spec in the game, including other rogue specs, so not a lot of rogues like to swap between outlaw and anything else (compared to how much easier it is to swap between assa and sub), and anyone who doesn't play rogue already trying to pick up outlaw is like trying to learn calculus before algebra. Not that it's impossible, but you'd be much better off learning Sub or Assa before trying Outlaw just because the rogue macro game is so important to get used to, and those other specs rely on it way more to be able to do anything. Outlaw can FEEL like you're doing well without it, but when you get into higher rated matches, not maximizing your entire toolkit as Outlaw becomes way more evident when you might as well just be playing Fury if you want to play a high APM melee that only needs to worry about a couple glowing buttons to top the damage meters.
I’d rather see racials separated from races. The racials should be a short quest to introduce how they work with an NPC you can talk to later to swap at a nominal fee.
i feel like deva always gets overhyped im at 2.5 mmr and thats where i just feel week, at the higher mmrs compared to other specs, specially other ranged dps
The main strength of WW is that they're good at not dying, but that doesn't really help them to close out games reliably when the other team can just kill their teammate instead. If you play WW, you need your healer to babysit you with dispels and your team to cross-cc so your burst doesn't get wasted by being peeled. There are just characters out there with more utility, self sufficiency, and outplay potential, so I don't think WW is in a competitive spot for PvP in terms of its fundamental kit design. Adding more damage won't solve the core problems, and I might even argue that improving raw uptime is still just a band-aid fix.
I think the way he talks about frost vs fire mage is basically the same situation with the current ww vs fury war... its clearly a worse fury war and doesn't deserve to be on the same tier in much the same way that fire doesn't belong on the same tier as frost.
I'm trying to understand your criteria for the classes according to which you classify them in a particular field. Do you follow the principle of what the viewers tell you, or are you guided more by your personal opinion? Let's say, sub rogue eats BM, arca mage and still BM above all lol It does not even have best DMG in game. BM have good mobility, utility, but no OP burst imo Not to mention ferals..
He's not rating 1v1 and duels. Then it's disc and most rogue specs. He's rating solo shuffle. He conflates rogue specs enough and you propose he puts it above bm? Blasphemy
@@arnymon9340 Rogues being able to one shot a spec is not a reflection of that spec, but a reflection of the player being one shot. Rogue isn’t even that good right now, and no I don’t play rogue. Only a bad BM gets one shot by anyone. Pop turtle=profit. BM players are hilarious, denying how busted your spec is cuz you suck with it.
hot take but me personally I feel dh should remain bottom tier for at least 2 xpacs to make up for the amount of time that class has been broken in the past and also as some already mention on here unholy is definitely not A tier it's still b tier at best
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The game is unplayable until they come out with a new ranking system in 12.0
Yep, 2400 here, it says 20min que but in reality it takes 30min
Sadly, it is begging to feel that way... Even at 1850 the queue times are ridiculous on my ret (20 mins for SS and Blitz) and blitz is just a complete lottery below 2000
I’ve noticed the time you queue matters a ton. I tried queueing around noon-4pm pst and my queue is like 12/13mins sometimes less at 2.2k cr
Nothing has changed or well, it became even worse. Plus for healers it serms to be even harder compared to Dragonflight.
Healers get insta Qs and mw/hpal/disc are amazing.
Healers that literally use their cooldowns will go atleast 3-3 all the way until they hit their mmr (1700-2k), get instant qs, leave games cuz they can instantly get their next q and rating back, throw games because they can and have no repercussions.
Meanwhile dps have 40 min qs and have to stay locked in the whole time just to lose rounds with people who have full defensives
honestly blizzard should just have you do the class balancing for pvp .
So, class by class, DH is officially the lowest, sole class stuck in B tier with no option
Try Rshaman
Everyone complaining about q times I get that its frustrating, I have an idea, play a healer one day a week, even if its for an hour, if every dps did that it would charge q times up a lot, wanna help the game? heal the game
I'm upvoting you for your last seven words. That belongs on a t-shirt.
What Fire needs is a decent buff to Pyroblast damage in PvP during Combust, so it feels threatening and like it can actually 100-0 when no defensive is traded. The 8% buff to it was an absolute joke. It‘s good that Fire has less defensives than Frost and also much less consistent damage, its burst damage and finishing power are what need to be buffed.
Oh, and it‘s the only Mage spec with completely useless spec-specific PvP talents. They need to come up with some good replacements for Flame Cannon, Heat Shimmer and WIF.
I stopped pvping altogether. People lying about their quote on quote 3k experience but can’t even link an 1800 achievement in 3’s. Then when you somehow even manage to form a group if you lose one time someone leaves. Seems like everyone just wants to be a solo shuffle/bg blits hero but it dosent feel the same. Getting 2200 in 3’s with two people you worked hard with hits different and I feel nothing from getting that in the other game modes. So after almost an entire season of this I gave up. Made a resto shaman and now I just raid and mythic plus.
3v3s is for noobs, man up and play 2v2
@@kerkertrandov459 Wut?! 2v2 is a cheese fest. 3v3 is for actual good PVP players lol. Have fun getting your glad mount in 2v2. Oh wait :D
Super the only person putting ww above B tier in all of wow
As someone who plays blitz 80% of the time i think if you don't like the current situation of shuffle/2s/3s right now you should definitely try blitz out. Probably the biggest difference is how easily you can rank up compared to arena because of inflation.
Some classes are allowed to keep above 1m dps in rated pvp where they were never supposed to. To add insult to injury, some classes can’t be suppressed by anything but a hard stun. Pvp this season is in a deeply sad state.
Weird take tbh tbh. Why can disc/hpal/mw survive through 2 of said dps then? 😂
What's sad is when everything is nerfed and 2 dps classes are good and every healer is broken. They need to buff rsham and rdruid and it'll be super balanced
These are very helpful. thank you supatease
If you just replace S with A tier and reorder based on that your list fits into categories without needing +
Always appreciate you looking over the meta!🎉
unholy a tier is a fuckin joke ngl
Objectively it's not that bad, it just gets massively hardcountered by the better/more popular melee like Feral/Fury/Rogue etc
U just dont know how to play it
Def still pumps lol
It has dmg but 0 kill pressure. Poking the enemy to death :)
@@joshua_anderson0601It is that bad. Idk where it’s “obvious” to anyone but people who’ve never played dk.
I was able to squeeze out a 2100 rating on a Windwalker solo shuffle last season of dragon flight (last few weeks of season). first time hitting 2100 so I'm not the best with pvp. If I were to push for rating at this stage in war within what do you think the equivalent to 2100 would be in solo shuffle due to the lack of inflation? 1800? 1600?
blizzard dont need to tune anything with shamans at all. they merely just need to make earthen stick to a player, and make spirit link a button you press regardless of range. instant A tier healer with 2 simple changes.
Ima need that Aug build ASAP
Not sure about sub being A tier when every round is Hpal Pal / Ret🤢could be my bracket mind.
Outlaw is always been awesome and my most favorite spec,the one thing is ,the gameplay is mostly the same as DF and that feels a bit stale,everybody got new themes and stuff,you need to also be hyper when you play as you will do alot of things:))).Outlaw will always be my main but i would like a different theme all togheter like "BladeDancer" just make pistol shoot small handcrosbow or just throw knifes:)) BTE could be a charged throw,the thematic of a Bladedancer would be cooler to me,overall you will have a blast once you get some miles under the hood on Outlaw,there is so much you can do and you are not constricted by a fixed rotation.
Thanks For the presentation, appreciate the info. But is wow dead after POE2 comes out?
Can’t wait for POE2 lol
People play Poe for 1-2 weeks then never hop on again until a new season. Can’t imagine it being any different
Whats poe2 another kong foo panda movie?
@@TheHookemhornman dude POE2 is a whole new game coming out.
@@_-DJ-_ hahaha heck yeah!
The problem with DEV is how you can't do anything to carry your teamate. You pop your DEF + DMG CD and try to traumatise everyone then you'r start kitting. You can end a round with +15-20% over the second highest damage dealer and still loose. Your DMG is heavely spread and you are not that disruptive. Sure, warrior cries when they see you but dev get repititive and aren't good at carying bad players.
They should do something about the mobility of enh Shaman. The ability to remove slows has like 1 min cd and you can get slowed right after using the ability...
Would love to see solo shuffle and BG blitz QUE time fixed
It's killing my desire to play
Outlaw is super fun but fighting Hpal just ruins it when you have no dispels. Double BoP + Searing Glare just denying so much alone, and that's not even looking at whatever CC the lobby has. Hpal being strong and popular just sucks for Outlaw. Can easily flip a losing match at the last second due to how strong immunities are in late dampening, and Outlaw is a dampening spec.
When there aren't any Hpals/Rets though it's really strong. Assa, Feral, and Surv still counter it but it handles pretty much everything else at least evenly. And having counters is certainly fine. But BoP specifically just feels really unfun and sucks to lose a game against a completely uncounterable BoP on the kill target, Bubble on the healer, etc. while you just have to survive the 10 second onslaught in max dampening. Doesn't feel like getting outplayed, just rock paper scissored. Meanwhile Hunters get a dispel for some reason despite already benefitting from being the only ranged physical class lol
But I think that's why not as many people are playing it. It's difficult enough on its own, but there's nothing fun about 1-2 pallies in every single lobby when they just get to deny a win 3 times per round so you have to work 4x harder. Worst is when the pally is the random 500 cr toon in a 2k lobby, so even if you beat him 2/3 times, one dumb win due to just being such a hard counter suddenly tanks whatever rating you were going to gain.
With the CDR Outlaw relies on to keep vanish and AR up, you have to instantly swap off the BOP and continue spamming combo point spenders on anyone you can. If you don't, AR will fall and the spec really slows down. I've learned no matter what, you need to keep spamming combo spenders to keep the spec turned up on full tilt.
Also, vanishing as much as possible during the opening moments to keep AR up as well, is important. As the CDR will bring those vanishes back quick by the time AR also comes back.
I've found trinketing somewhat early so you keep the up time on the buffs and continue spamming CDR is important.
yea, as a mistweaver its hard to win a lobby against holy pala when there is an outlaw
Whaazz showed the trick to outlaw to have 6 perma buffs at all times on his vod
Why outlaw is hard? Could you explain, seems easy damaging spec. What is the difference compare to assa?
Outlaw requires more overview as assa rogue. much more control and swaps
Because it's the only rogue spec he's tried and he got free 2400 going 3-3 and 2-4 .
Blasphemy comparing it to sub 😒
It has one of the highest APM in the game.
@@evanway478 Yeah realistically it's actually easier than Sub due to being so inherently tanky, and CDR making its windows unpredictable, but in order to get offensive value you need go be really aware of many different things at once while making straight up split second adaptations/decisions or else you'll fall really flat and just end up losing to an easier high uptime pressure DPS like BM or Fury. So there are tradeoffs and it plays very differently from pretty much any other spec in the game, including other rogue specs, so not a lot of rogues like to swap between outlaw and anything else (compared to how much easier it is to swap between assa and sub), and anyone who doesn't play rogue already trying to pick up outlaw is like trying to learn calculus before algebra. Not that it's impossible, but you'd be much better off learning Sub or Assa before trying Outlaw just because the rogue macro game is so important to get used to, and those other specs rely on it way more to be able to do anything. Outlaw can FEEL like you're doing well without it, but when you get into higher rated matches, not maximizing your entire toolkit as Outlaw becomes way more evident when you might as well just be playing Fury if you want to play a high APM melee that only needs to worry about a couple glowing buttons to top the damage meters.
I’d rather see racials separated from races. The racials should be a short quest to introduce how they work with an NPC you can talk to later to swap at a nominal fee.
Sounds terrible.
@@theflyest6595 racials have no place in pvp especialy night elf.
Shadow is by far the king range dps
😂If SP is the king, BM is the bastard’s father.
@stoopidyoutubehandle lol that's funny but I can't agree 🤣
Would swap sp and fury for sure. And aug is b-tier, 1.5 lucky cheesy players on it is not enough to pull the spec from the dumpster.
Can't wait to see aug in every lobby after this video LOL
i feel like deva always gets overhyped im at 2.5 mmr and thats where i just feel week, at the higher mmrs compared to other specs, specially other ranged dps
As a WW main, I completely agree with WW in A tier. We just have issues connecting, and I don't see that changing.
The main strength of WW is that they're good at not dying, but that doesn't really help them to close out games reliably when the other team can just kill their teammate instead.
If you play WW, you need your healer to babysit you with dispels and your team to cross-cc so your burst doesn't get wasted by being peeled. There are just characters out there with more utility, self sufficiency, and outplay potential, so I don't think WW is in a competitive spot for PvP in terms of its fundamental kit design. Adding more damage won't solve the core problems, and I might even argue that improving raw uptime is still just a band-aid fix.
I dislike new ww and all my cool buttons don’t do anything now 😢
I think the way he talks about frost vs fire mage is basically the same situation with the current ww vs fury war... its clearly a worse fury war and doesn't deserve to be on the same tier in much the same way that fire doesn't belong on the same tier as frost.
You having SP as the top spec for shuffle invalidates the rest of the list lol
literally played by 80% of all AWC teams? maybe you're bad?
Outlaw, BM, and feral are literally insane
I'm trying to understand your criteria for the classes according to which you classify them in a particular field. Do you follow the principle of what the viewers tell you, or are you guided more by your personal opinion? Let's say, sub rogue eats BM, arca mage and still BM above all lol
It does not even have best DMG in game. BM have good mobility, utility, but no OP burst imo
Not to mention ferals..
He's not rating 1v1 and duels. Then it's disc and most rogue specs. He's rating solo shuffle.
He conflates rogue specs enough and you propose he puts it above bm? Blasphemy
BM is beyond broken, more than any other spec in the game bar none.
@@hellburdened haha, so broken that rogues oneshot them lol
@@draincatYT so the main trait is to being versatile?
@@arnymon9340 Rogues being able to one shot a spec is not a reflection of that spec, but a reflection of the player being one shot. Rogue isn’t even that good right now, and no I don’t play rogue. Only a bad BM gets one shot by anyone. Pop turtle=profit.
BM players are hilarious, denying how busted your spec is cuz you suck with it.
Fix the que times!!
How?
just play healer or deal with it, other than 3 dps vs 3 dps theres nothing they can do unless more healers play
@Jeebizz101 i have been playing healer . It's about to be my main now if it continues. Lol
They can give incentives to healer. For example 1k gold per round win but only if ure healer.
hot take but me personally I feel dh should remain bottom tier for at least 2 xpacs to make up for the amount of time that class has been broken in the past and also as some already mention on here unholy is definitely not A tier it's still b tier at best
Unholy is still mosquito energy hot garbage tf you talking bout? Clearly never played dk.
Gesundheit
solo is dead, 20 min q, rest of this shit game is also dead, gg blizz hope devs will enjoy unemplyment
WoW is "dead" since 10 years 😂
you get unlimited insta q's as healer, play healer bro
Rogues are insanely op esp for their ability to get kbs and survive. Needs nerfs asap imho. They are topping kbs in epic bgs lol.. what??
Kbs are an ego stat . Doesn’t matter. Objectives and amount of healers matter