If you guys would like, I can do a part 2 to this video talking about how I think Skill Check is going (from my own subjective perspective of course). But I don't think I'd make that video until the show is at least 5 or so episodes in. That's usually around the time when the "new campaign jitters" have shed off. Thanks for watching everyone! I'm absolutely blown away by all the awesome comments and feedback you've given ❤
Vested Skillcheck DM here - First and foremost I wanted to say I appreciated the respect and tone of your content. While it would be too lengthy to respond to your points one to one here in a comment, I wanted to say generally I definitely see your perspective, and agreed with a lot you had to say. I hope you'll give episode 2 another pass like this, because a lot of the "Pilot" nerves/issues boil away and we get way more time in character, engaging with stories IMO. Charlie and the rest of the players are having a blast, and you're spot on about there being quite a few new players in the bunch. As 1/2 of the DM team I personally welcome and appreciate the respectful, informed, and intelligent points you've made. It's my personal charge to improve and do better and hearing honest and direct critiques is the fastest way to do so. Though, absolutely, 7 players and 2 DM's for 9 speaking roles is quite the challenge, I think we get exponentially better in episode 2! We also address a few of your items in an interview format coming up on the skillcheck channel (such as why the players didn't take much time to talk in the museum about who/what/when/where/why). All of this to say, I thought your concluding thoughts were dead on in many places and match with a lot that we've already planned to discuss and talk about! Thank you for not only your thoughts and feedback, but again for the care and respect you gave to them.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting. I really do think despite the “cons” I mentioned, you guys (the DMs) are doing a great job making it fun for the players, which is no small feat for 7 players. Nothing but respect here, and like I said in the vid I do see Skill Check growing into a great story. I will definitely keep an eye out for the interview format content you mentioned, sounds great! Thanks again for not taking anything I said personally. As long as everyone at the table is having a good time, you’ve succeeded and nothing else matters 😊
Absolute class act here. You guys are doing great! DnD live shows are so saturated now with pros that people don't realize what a real DnD session is like between regular friends. I know my group will burn time making stupid jokes out of character for like an hour before we bring it back into the game. I think people just need to accept that a lot of the live DnD shows that get the most attention are insanely high effort productions, which is impressive and fun to watch. The Matt Mercer effect is alive and well and when a DM isn't a professional voice actor, or can mimic the sounds of a bottle being uncorked, people think that's a bad thing.
@Acrylescent Dnd is so personal and important for so many people, of course it comes in different styles. That's okay! Your table sounds like a bunch of troublemakers, my kinda people
All i'm gonna say about the backstories part is, if Nott the Brave would have told us her whole story on the first episode, no one would care, same with my man Caleb. I can give similar examples with my own games, i 100% think it's better to discover all of that in character, just talking with the other PCs.
Yeah, the backstories thing is definitely a pretty subjective thing. I’m sure some people prefer getting some backstory off the bat, which is completely fine of course
I largely agree with this yeah Like the only time people in my group have done this is in the case of one shots, bc it’s just one and done. In the case of full campaigns though it’s much better and more natural to have your characters backstory come to light as the group grows closer or if like someone’s past catches up with them etc
I don’t even have players go around and introduce their characters at the start of the campaign. I usually have a cold open, dropping them right into the action and once they do something cool (or dumb on occasion) in front of another character I let them describe what the other sees. It makes character introductions so much more dynamic and exciting and let’s players describe their character as a living, breathing, heroic adventurer instead of a lifeless mannequin. It’s how I’ve always done it and I can’t imagine doing it any other way.
Charlie does what Charlie wants to do, not because it's going to be a successful venture. He made a wrestling show even though his audience isn't into wrestling. He's involved in ESports even though ESports groups all lose money. Charlie is the ultimate master of the yolo principle.
Charlie is pretty brave to be starting a live play show at such a tumultuous time in the hobby. Hopefully that speaks to his love of this game, and that love will show as this campaign goes on. Thank you for posting, this video is really clear and concise! Looking forward to more from you :)
@kafkaesque5943 there's a couple reasons, and probably more than I'm listing, but here's a few; -there was a big fiasco with Wizards of the Coast (company that owns/makes D&D) regarding their ethics when trying to, intentionally or unintentionally, shut down 3rd party D&D material (of which there's an INSANELY LARGE ecosystem) -there's a new D&D system releasing next year, with major changes to the game. People are uncertain of how well it's going to be recieved, given the previous point and some of the major changes. Its future is uncertain for many fans.
@@kafkaesque5943 also, at the same time as the intentional or unintentional threat to 3rd party creators, their own material has been pretty shaky recently, giving the impression that they don't much care about making the game good anymore but just want people's cash.
@@kafkaesque5943and to add to that, they just laid off 1100 employees at WOTC that don’t conform to their profit first model and are instead passionate about the game
I mean, even if they did dump the backstories... They could have done so in character. After they meet, they gather someone and go around the table "What's your story? What makes you Hugh Fructose?" Those moments can be great roleplay and then you don't have to have the prowess of navigating a dynamic narrative for timely reveals... You just tell them, but you do so how your character might. Maybe even lie about your backstory if you still want secrets. But this, what I will call, voice of god style exposition dump where we know the story for a fact-it just could have been handled better.
I agree that it's better for a show, but in an actual game I always ask the players to introduce themselves and I tell them not to hide things from each other. Though if there's mysteries related to the character, I'll usually do that after the fact.
@@BrandonPaul yeah an introduction is fine, but in general there's no reason to tell a couple of randos you just met your life story, like, a simple description of your character and maybe your name is all they need, they can learn your name, trade, age, story, etc by talking to the character, the same way you would learn an npc's backstory. In general, it makes for better roleplay to just let the players talk to each other instead of just "you all met in a tavern, you already know each other's name and backstories, now, your mission is to..." at least in my opinion of course, everyone is welcome to run their games the way they want.
@@fall-from-grace1008 That's a good point. It depends on the players too. Like we just started a session today and the players haven't said anything about backstory yet. I'm just saying that I don't think it's abnormal if they want to choose to do that.
I think part of the difficulty here with the “bad” is that they look like they’re playing like it’s their home-table, which there’s nothing wrong with imo, but there are different considerations when creating something meant to be consumed media. Kind of like having two audiences: those at the table and those on the other side of the screen, and both have to be catered to to an extent. Doable but not always easy. It also doesn’t help that I think a lot of people have certain expectations that they want from APs thanks to other certain mainstream series, unfortunately
Yeah I absolutely agree. Nothing they’re doing is necessarily bad or wrong, but in the aspect of making the show for viewers, unfortunately some things work and some things don’t. Although that’s open to debate of course. Thanks for watching!
You don't need to do voices, but everyone digs them that actually plays. I tend to do it for the beginning of the game. The players say they remember the whole game with voices afterwards
I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t like them giving their backstory straight away. I just think it’s so much more rewarding to find that stuff out, in character. Thanks for watching!
I think it depends on the style of game. Not everyone wants to be Critical Role or have some deep narrative. I think people forget that other people play the same game differently.
Was blown away to see such a small subscriber count, incredible second outing! Everything was really well said and formatted, and I look forward to seeing what’s next.
Foray feels like that one trouble player at every table. he for sure has main character syndrome. When Charlie finally decided to get involved and have his big character moment (transforming to intimidate the crowd), Foray immediately felt the need to insert himself in and give the “help action” when it really wasn’t necessary. This is especially bad on a table with 7 people and only doing 2 hour sessions. It felt like only Foray and the Wizard were getting involved.
Although not playing on a regular basis, even I noticed an increase in people playing or at least knowing about D&D, especially after Stranger Things. I think it really blew up after the first season of the show. Sure, through gaming, cosplay and formerly manga/anime, my friends are more prone to know and play D&D to begin with, but even my not-so-nerdy friends know it by now. Oh and I let my DM know, that I can roll with advantage so she let me do a luck roll for tomorrow. 10 and 3, so neither lucky, nor unlucky - or life as usual as I would say 😂
I'm in the middle of watching the hotdog warehouse mission (episode "17") and the show has improved 1000% now that everyone is settled more. It's one of the few things I look forward to watching regularly.
I DM a 7 and 8 player campaign and play in a 4 player one and there's a 6 player campaign I'm joining coming up. Big player pools can be difficult at times but I've found that in the big groups a lot of the PCs try to find ways to involve the quieter characters so that they don't get left out. I could also see big groups working far better at an actual table, all my games are online as my friends are on the other side of the continent so we've got to be really thoughtful and not talk over each other but if you're at a table you can have side conversations or make quiet quips without interrupting anyone. One of my friends also has another group he plays in that can have up to like 20 PCs in a session at once and apparently they're still going so it's just about figuring out how to make it work and what works best for your table.
Whoa! You must have the memory of a god, if I was in more than 2 separate games (especially with that many players) I would lose track SO quickly haha 😂 You're right though, if you can make it work, then there's no reason to stop :)
I would argue that Charlie has as much responsibility to make sure that the story goes well, and the other players get their time. It's his show, and personally I wouldn't do a live play without some play testing. Critical Role was already playing their game for some time before streaming.
Personally, my biggest criticism is a lack of music. Music when used correctly dramatically increases the feeling and quality of not only a dnd game but a show.
Im surprised that they didnt have a session 0 off camera. I thought those were pretty important in campaigns? The dm and Players can get a feeling of eachothers playstyles/approach while learning the basic mechanics and basic aspects of role playing. Charlie should have been introducing his audience to dnd content on the build up to the premier. Explaining basic mechanics and overall goal of dnd games with the occasional funny clips/epic moments from around the platform. Its an unfortunate start but it will get better if they stick to it
yeah, I think they could have benefited from some form of official video from the Skill Check channel before diving into the campaign, but oh well. I do want to see the show succeed, and 3 eps in it does look to be getting better bit by bit 😀
I feel like they didn't really have a session 0 with no cameras but they really should've had. I also find the plot and worldbuilding somewhat confusing and I can't help but to feel like the DMs aren't aware of some key details either. This maybe wouldn't be a problem if we would spend enough time in one place to get to know it but it seems like the plan is to keep hopping from place to place seeking curios for the museum... for some reason. Whereas the players were a bit too open with their backstories the DMs seem either too secretive or too unprepared. While that might work in a home game with a DM that's good at ad-lib, I find that a bit more structure makes for a more pleasant and interesting viewing experience.
I agree with keeping most information to dialog generally, but I have had groups agree to share some character sheets and backstory as well as go over some general lore (stuff they should know or assume especially) to help my new players. It really depends on who the people are. If you have some shy newbies and your veterans are happy to share and help them out, it can be very vital to building their confidence and then you ween them off of that extra information as they go along or start them in future games without anything their character shouldn't know. Also, I think the Foray complaints were overblown. He seemed to be having fun to me and everyone else was still being shy and getting comfortable. It becomes especially clear after watching episode 2, but I felt that way before I saw it.
Very fair points! I hope I didn’t make it seem like I completely dislike Foray, on the contrary I think he is one of the most interesting at the table so far, especially into ep. 2
I didnt even see charlie play. Times are rather incopatible . This video just made me wanna see where they go now. As i am a big dnd nerd dming over 5 years now
Crisp vid def gonna sub, but yeah i agree with essentially everything you said but i think they have the potential to overcome the rough start. The dms, Charlie, Matt, and Caleb all seem really passionate about the game even if caleb burned a little too brightly in the first episode. Matt especially, Shark is such a treat so far. My biggest worry is the lack of enthusiasm from some of the players but I'll chalk it up to nerves of the first episode.
@RoguesRollCall-Cam i don't know if you watched the second episode yet, but it's much better than the first imo. Most of the players i was worried about opened up a lot more and even Danny as Valar seemed to be a little more comfortable. I'm still quite worried about Caleb and at some points I'd say he's worse but talked a little less so that's a plus. Not sure he's long for the show, dude gives off HUGE Orion Acaba vibes.
I started watching this video assuming that your channel must have been around for years and you must have hundrets of thousands of subscribers, when I heard that this was your second (!) ever video, I instantly subbed. Awsome Video format, edeting and pacing so far, excited to see what comes next from you!
Yeah episode 1 was a bit rocky but it just gets better and better the lastest episodes have been super fun and honestly it seems like it will be one of the best DnD shows out there ( at least from ones i have experienced )
For this format, where the main foci are the narrative and these eclectic characters and where game mechanics are kept light, I would think that the Fate RPG would be a much better choice. But name recognition and all that.
Yeah, I think there's definitely a larger conversation to be had about D&D (at least seeming to) be the the most accessible TTRPG for new players, based purely on media
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam For that, I would like to nominate Quest (the one found on adventure.game). Flat d20 rolls, one universal table, a wide variety of abilities, and a handy resource for keeping the more powerful abilities from being spammed.
I just started watching and recently finished the Xmas episode so like 4.5 episodes in. it definitely gets better after ep 1 but as someone who doesn't really play D&D or watch any other shows like this my biggest issue that is still persisting is the group hardly seems to know each other and the characters seem to have no sort of relationships with one another idk if that's common in these games but after consuming almost 12 hours worth of content i feel like all these characters should have atleast talked to one another by now IDK if charlie's character has ever spoken to anyone besides Shark and I totally forget Valaar is a character 99% of times. this group is meshing as well as oil and water.
I am amazed at the quality of the video seeing how you are a new youtuber, I could easily been told you were a big channel that was going for years and believed that
It was an old copyright free backing track from years and years ago called FF Dreaming, but it ended up being taken down at some point. I just had a quick look now though and think I found a re-upload, called 'Dreaming Music - Final Fantasy Like Music"
Personally I didn't mind much of the first episode and still found myself interested in the campaign. I think that foray is actually right now my favorite character but I can see where he might overstep into being a little too obnoxious. I think that now that it's been a few weeks and a few more episodes have come out foray has been comfortable at least for me. And I see that the player is pretty dedicated to the roleplay which might be why the character is as interesting to me as he is. But as a not so experienced player perhaps I am not seeing where he might be possibly overbearing. Now that you mention the backstory element I understand how that would improve the story and interest going forward. As someone who has just recently started getting into DnD more often in my college club I guess being a more casual player that is quite often around new players might be why some of these things didn't immediately stick out. Especially the backstories as a lot of games I've been in players typically reveal these elements out of character somewhat casually or not at all. My interest might also be because I think my favorite part of DnD is watching new people give it a try. And this show feels a lot more familiar to the play groups that I have interacted with in which many of the players are either brand new or have only played maybe 1-2 longer campaigns. And usually the DM is the only person there with any true experience and understands out positions and runs a game accommodating for that mindset. But I enjoy that space as often leads to a lot of creative moments as players explore what they're allowed to do or first dipping their feet into roleplaying or the more interactive combat. I also agree that I hope this gets more people interested in the game as a whole. I do hope that in the future the show finds it's footing and cements itself into a place that a broader audience can enjoy. I don't speak from a ton of experience so this opinion may not be all that helpful. But I do think this video was a very polite and thoughtful critique overall.
Really well said, and thanks for the kind words 😀 I agree by the way, with the new episodes, Foray is definitely growing on me. He definitely has the most personality haha
I think that this video arrived at the wrong moment. A ton of what you said will be confirmed or refuted in future episodes and what I ended up getting from your video was: this is cool/not cool but let's wait to see how it goes. And to be honest, I think that everyone can say the same about basically anything that hasn't ended yet. I would have preferred to have a more detailed video after maybe 5 or more released episodes were out so that we could have a real feel at what this show may offer to potential viewers. Also, nothing wrong with the way they presented their character stories, as this looks more like a "this is the way our table plays" contrary to trying to be another CR like show, which I believe is way more valuable as it shows that the game can be played and enjoyed in different ways and not necessarily the "more compelling" to you or anyone who isn't at the table. I personally respect that even if I like to play more on the way you describe when talking about what you would have preferred. Having said all that, I'm looking forward to future videos, liked and suscribed.
Sure, thanks for watching and for the feedback. I did stress in the video that this is only episode one, and none of the cons were dealbreakers and I am confident they’ll do fine going forward. Also that the cons (particularly the backstory thing) were based on my own personal preferences. Regardless, I do appreciate you watching and giving me some critiques of my own. Thanks again 😃
Great analysis on this. I want Skill Check to succeed. Charlie has a large pull and a massive audience, and when he covered the OGL stuff by watching Crit Crabs video he exploded his growth with fans of Charlies content which I don’t doubt spilled over into other DnD channels. I’d love to chat on this topic with you on stream sometime :)
I couldn't agree more, I wanted to make it super clear in my video that despite any "negatives" I mention, I want Skill Check to succeed and for all the players/DMs involved to have fun. Hopefully that came across. The more people that are introduced to the game the better. Also, that sounds like fun, I'd love to! Christmas is a tricky time of course, but I'm sure we can work something out for a future date if you'd like. I'm over on Twitter @ CamWolfshot
Awesome. Followed you and I’ll message you when you follow back because apparently Twitter took another feature away and doesn’t let me message people unless they follow back anymore lmfao
Been following you Cam for a while on your other channels. Happy to see your love of DnD. If you like podcasts, I suggest Dungeons and Daddies. (Not a BDSM Podcast). It's very creative and entertaining and funny! Stay cool Cam!!
The parry size is a huge thing. I currently have 7 players (in number crunching god damned pathfinder 1e), and it's a lot. Even for a non-professional environment. I'm sort of dreading telling 1 or 2 of them I'd rather not have them in my next campaign just because of size.
Oh damn, that does sound like a pretty hard thing to manage. Combat must be super tricky to keep track of, right? Hopefully your players are understanding, in wanting to have a smaller party. I think you’re well within your rights to want to bring the number down a bit Thanks for watching by the way 😃
@RoguesRollCall-Cam Of course. Loved the video. I have found and made a few tools to help combat go more smoothly. Auto initiative trackers and dice rollers for my enemies. The big issue is time. 5e with 7 players is manageable due to the action economy of that game and comparative simplicity. Pathfinder gives everyone so many options and actions each turn. Spells read like a novel. And there are so many tiny rules to easily forget about, like the 5ft step during a full round action. I've learned to lean more into the roleplay, wave of the hand, GM bs, rule of cool style.
Oh wow, here I was thinking 5e still had long combat with more than 4 players, I can't even imagine how hard it must be to manage all that in Pathfinder. You must be doing pretty well though, to stay on top of it
Interesting, going to give it a watch. I think the tone and criticisms of this video seem very fair. In terms of ideal party size, as a DM, I prefer 3 or 4 players, and I definitely wouldn't co-DM. Remember, Critical Role campaign 1 wasn't as produced, especially in the beginning. Also, they massively struggled with a player who had "main character syndrome," who left shortly into the show. Personally, I prefer actual plays of TTRPGs rather than shows. For me, Critical Role is over-produced and more radio show than game - which is not to rag on it, just to point out that, for me, it no longer feels like D&D.
I can definitely understand your point about Critical Role. I love those guys, but yeah they’re definitely more entertainers trying to entertain, which isn’t a bad thing of course
Wtf? Lol people wanted animation? But to be honest my boy rustage got the dnd game on lock imo. I actually like his characters yeah some things will always be cringe but his characters are just entertaining even the cringe ones. Also i already like all the people he plays eith so even when they slow everything down to make jokes its usually still entertaining.
I saw that video... But honestly, I only watch every other of Charlie's videos anyways unless it really grabs my attention. I am a big D&D (or, okay, I am a big "greater TTRPG space") guy and I didn't even know that this thing happened. First it was College Humor, then Smosh, now Charlie? Could be living in worse times, I suppose... Could be living in better. Don't read too much into that last sentence, I just really like Pathfinder, okay? And not 2e, 1e. I know, I know, not very much "greater" on that TTRPG space... But a little greater.
hey since you have more experience in DnD, can you research and do a video on Pokemon DnD. There's only a handful of videos made for it, but I'd like it if someone could dumb it down for me.
Revealing your backstory in the first session is one if the big no no's for me in role playing games. It really does rob the fellow players, the audience and yourself of truly experiencing the best parts if your character during the journey. I understand that not everyone plays like that but I really think that for the audience's sake, they should have revealed it iver the course of the story. In my current campaign it took me 3 months for my fellow players to learn about my backstory ehich explains how I treated certain party members and everyone just thinks my character is more layerd and interesting because if it
Yeah, I don’t want to dictate the play style of that group too much, but as a viewer it would have been much more exciting to learn the backstory’s over time. Thanks for watching!
This kind of brings up a sentiment that I've seen recently that is starting to sound more and more true to me. Despite what everyone says, D&D is NOT actually about telling a story, at least not in the way people think. D&D isn't scripted, and while the DM may plan for certain things to happen, the best "stories" in D&D arise organically through play. The story comes later, as a RESULT of playing characters and acting as they would. D&D isn't about telling stories, it's about roleplaying characters, and if you invest into playing that character and getting fully immersed in playing them, the stories write themselves. We shouldn't go in with the mindset of "telling a story". We should go in with the mindset of playing a game where the game is playing a character. Similarly, many DM's will have a much easier time if they don't put so much work into "being a storyteller" and instead allow the story to play out more naturally and responding to what the player characters do.
That's a really interesting way to look at it Jacob, and I don't disagree with you, although I think personally that telling a story and playing the game aren't mutually exclusive. I know for me at least, I go in with the intention of doing both. I absolutely see your point though, very interesting thoughts
For anyone who remembers a channel, Node. They have a few d&d series. They’re pre recorded so it’s edited and such, but entertaining enough to make ya want to try out d&d.
Late reaponse here, but oh my god that took me back. Sadly I don’t watch Arcadum anymore ever since the whole drama stuff around sexual harassment started. But yes to me hearing that Charlie was making a dnd show was not a surprise, but a shock that it happend. I’ll give the show a watch when there are more episodes to better assess it. Also side in that campaign with arcadum, Charlie played a Goliath wild magic sorcerer, But yeah I can see why some would think he was a Druid. Hell arcadum made a system for Charlie involving absorbing trash around the ecosystem into magic which gave his character minor buffs. It was very fun to watch so I have hope that Charlie and his team will improve as it goes and just generally have fun.
Critical fans are from the bowels of the most shitty message boards anyone could find, after episode two they won't care they just don't like new things
First time viewing your channel. I definitely liked your discussion throughout this video but as someone who hasn't watch the actual show, we as the unaware viewers need to hear audio clips from the show as examples of your points. Especially when you mention when the one guy was being a toxic / annoying player. You show the chat reaction and you talk about your reaction, but we never get to witness any of it ourselves unless we were to navigate away from this video to go watch it (something we aren't going to do when you're talking about how cringe it is 😋). Just my two cents! Great job editing the video and organizing, but perhaps include just a wee bit more concrete examples (i.e. include original audio)
That’s some very fair feedback for me, thanks for taking the time to let me know. I wasn’t sure how much I could get away with using clips and audio from the show, but you’re right, I could have shown more examples. Thanks again for watching
@RoguesRollCall-Cam Yeah you're doing great man. As someone who's made a couple TH-cam channels for various things, I appreciate your editing and I know getting those extra clips can be a lot of work, but I do think it would help woth engagement. I think you'll be OK sharing a handful of clips with audio for the purpose of critiquing. Plenty of channels so this with no issue, even with well known shows like Critical Role so you'll be alright. If you use music (or the clip has really loud music) that's when you'll get dinged by the copyright stuff. Good luck with the channel man! I'm subbed looking forward to more :)
As somebody who has never played dnd, and has only watched a bit of Adventure is Nigh (the escapists dnd show before they imploded) Skill Check just felt extremely sloppy. I pretty much only listened to adventure is nigh, and they did a great job of painting a picture for the audience, very clearly relaying any die rolls or actions taken. I tried to listen to Skill Check for roughly a half hour and had to stop. I could barely tell what was happening.
I don't get why so little D&D (or any tabletop) shows actually use editting Like I get it CR doesn't but dungeons & daddies and some dimension 20 do it to great success like dare to cut stuff out, add in some visuals if you can it's a video platform yet the standard seems to be to just upload stuff raw, even though I'd enjoy even the more mediocre stuff if they just edited it instead of wasting everyone's time
Yeah I can certainly understand your point. I personally find something endearing in seeing it "raw" but I don't think it would hurt to use some cuts here and there when needed, maybe a few flashy visuals for the special moments, sure
Jesus Christ if people expected this to be anything like CR. Not every thing needs people’s opinion lol 😂 if you don’t like it don’t watch doesn’t mean that it’s not entertaining to see how a game is actually played. If you find it boring sounds like you have a stimulation issue probably caused by short handed content. Skill check is real and raw at least in my experience with DnD. Everyone at the table is just having fun and if you find that boring I wouldn’t want to be a part of a game where you just focus on the gameplay. I think their game is very interesting and progressing relatively well.
I don’t know if your comment is directed AT me, but I literally said at the start of the video it wouldn’t be fair to compare it to Critical Role. I also never said Skill Check is bad. It is a show, people are allowed to give their opinions on stuff they watch online, that’s what you just did in your comment. Relax.
I feel like its inappropriate for people to want animations in a DnD game. Like...were they expecting Bauldr's Gate? Like, you can't expect a Stage Play to look like Movie, and you can't expect a DnD game to look like a stage play...or anything, but a DnD game. Show or not, if the show transforms itself too much to be entertaining for the audience, it can stop being entertaining for the players, and worse, it can stop being an actual TTRPG game. TTRPGs shouldn't mold to be "entertaining", you should watch TTRPG shows if you think TTRPGs are entertaining for you
yeah I think that's pretty well said. I think doing a few flashy things to make a D&D show more interesting is okay, but only in very small amounts, otherwise it just distracts from the story and the people at the table. That's my thoughts anyway
This isnt anything new, when you're playing with newbies who only come from shitposting memes and video games, you have to accept the fact that their first run in a D&D world is going to be highschool banter that goes around in circles. Actually maintaining a stream of conscious thought long enough beyond the constant losing battle between enabling invasive ADHD thoughts, is really hard for that crowd. You just have to give them time and slowly show them how fun it is to "do the whole show without derails"
I think the fans knew exactly what DnD is but he has gathered mainly a group of people who like to troll others on the internet. Even though they had a rough start I think it's wrong to use Critical Role as a comparison because that's more scripted and ran by professional voice actors.
I think the problem is a lot of people do not think it’s scripted. Like there’s some people I have met who will actually looked me dead in the eye and said well critical role is just a game between friends.😂
Yeah I think a large portion of Charlie’s audience aren’t really the types to view D&D as anything but cringe, but if even a few of them give it a go, that’s a win I suppose. Yeah I did stress in the video that comparing Skill Check to CR wouldn’t be fair, for quite a few reasons
They play DND how they play DND. That's it. Isn't the point of watching a DND show to see how they put their spin on the formula? Imagine you're playing with your friends then a group of ten people walk into your home and start immediately criticizing how you're playing. Even though it's your game. They could just leave and not watch it instead they stay to tear you down. I thought the new age of inclusive DND would make this kind of content disappear. Where you pick apart an experience, which doesn't make something positive, because are going to play how they want to play anyway, but it definitely makes something negative in saying this way of playing is bad, it's not entertaining, it's a waste of time. While I'm sure as a creator you don't mean any of this, you know what it's like to receive these comments I doubt you'd actually want to go out of your way to belittle a group of friends just having fun. This is still the Internet and as we both know, context doesn't exist. It's sad that you're helping the stigma of there's a better way to play ? ( I remember the dark ages of critical role superiority) Yes I know for a fact you didn't mean any of this, and you were 300% respectful. It doesn't erase the impact of the main (accidental) point of your writing. The more everything changes the more everything stays the same.
I agree with you but the problem with your comparison is that if I’m playing with my friends I didn’t ask these ten people to come watch and criticize our play. In skill check they’re willingly broadcasting this to thousands people many which are hardcore players. They will criticize them and I don’t see a problem with that since it’ll make the show better for people to watch.
Whoa whoa whoa. I completely agree that having strangers come and criticise how you play D&D would be super unnecessary, but Skill Check is a show made at least partly for an audience, and for entertainment, things made for entertainment can always be reviewed. I said all this at the start of the video. I don’t think even once in the video did I do any “tearing down” , I didn’t say it’s bad as a whole, or not entertaining, and I absolutely never belittled it or said it’s a waste of time. What I did say (multiple times) is that as long as they are having fun, none of my critiques really matter. As a whole, I also said I think Skill Check has great potential and I’m glad it exists. I appreciate you taking the time to watch and leave a comment, but I don’t think it’s fair to paint this whole video which contains a ton of praise for the show, as just a negative criticism piece. Anyway, I get the point of what you’re saying, and I don’t even disagree with the core of it. D&D can be played however you want, I was just talking about some things that I either liked or didn’t like, as a viewer of a show. Thanks again for watching
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
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If you guys would like, I can do a part 2 to this video talking about how I think Skill Check is going (from my own subjective perspective of course). But I don't think I'd make that video until the show is at least 5 or so episodes in. That's usually around the time when the "new campaign jitters" have shed off. Thanks for watching everyone! I'm absolutely blown away by all the awesome comments and feedback you've given ❤
Absholutely.
-Foray Forthwith
Vested Skillcheck DM here - First and foremost I wanted to say I appreciated the respect and tone of your content. While it would be too lengthy to respond to your points one to one here in a comment, I wanted to say generally I definitely see your perspective, and agreed with a lot you had to say. I hope you'll give episode 2 another pass like this, because a lot of the "Pilot" nerves/issues boil away and we get way more time in character, engaging with stories IMO. Charlie and the rest of the players are having a blast, and you're spot on about there being quite a few new players in the bunch. As 1/2 of the DM team I personally welcome and appreciate the respectful, informed, and intelligent points you've made. It's my personal charge to improve and do better and hearing honest and direct critiques is the fastest way to do so. Though, absolutely, 7 players and 2 DM's for 9 speaking roles is quite the challenge, I think we get exponentially better in episode 2! We also address a few of your items in an interview format coming up on the skillcheck channel (such as why the players didn't take much time to talk in the museum about who/what/when/where/why). All of this to say, I thought your concluding thoughts were dead on in many places and match with a lot that we've already planned to discuss and talk about! Thank you for not only your thoughts and feedback, but again for the care and respect you gave to them.
I didn't watch the show 'cause I don't follow this streamer, but to me it seems like high expectations took place
Thanks so much for watching and commenting. I really do think despite the “cons” I mentioned, you guys (the DMs) are doing a great job making it fun for the players, which is no small feat for 7 players. Nothing but respect here, and like I said in the vid I do see Skill Check growing into a great story.
I will definitely keep an eye out for the interview format content you mentioned, sounds great! Thanks again for not taking anything I said personally. As long as everyone at the table is having a good time, you’ve succeeded and nothing else matters 😊
Absolute class act here. You guys are doing great! DnD live shows are so saturated now with pros that people don't realize what a real DnD session is like between regular friends. I know my group will burn time making stupid jokes out of character for like an hour before we bring it back into the game. I think people just need to accept that a lot of the live DnD shows that get the most attention are insanely high effort productions, which is impressive and fun to watch. The Matt Mercer effect is alive and well and when a DM isn't a professional voice actor, or can mimic the sounds of a bottle being uncorked, people think that's a bad thing.
@Acrylescent Dnd is so personal and important for so many people, of course it comes in different styles. That's okay! Your table sounds like a bunch of troublemakers, my kinda people
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam Nothing but respect and back at you, looking forward to your coming content!
Charlie: I've got it: Cr1tiKaL Role!
Matt and Marisha: 😑 We talked about this.
🤣 That was a great opening.
Haha yeah, was such a pleasant surprise to see them pop in. Sam of course had to be like “I dunno guys, I like it” 😂
what part does that happen @@RoguesRollCall-Cam
It's in Charlie's original announcement vid (I put a link in the description of this video) 😀
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam ohhhh
All i'm gonna say about the backstories part is, if Nott the Brave would have told us her whole story on the first episode, no one would care, same with my man Caleb. I can give similar examples with my own games, i 100% think it's better to discover all of that in character, just talking with the other PCs.
Yeah, the backstories thing is definitely a pretty subjective thing. I’m sure some people prefer getting some backstory off the bat, which is completely fine of course
I largely agree with this yeah
Like the only time people in my group have done this is in the case of one shots, bc it’s just one and done. In the case of full campaigns though it’s much better and more natural to have your characters backstory come to light as the group grows closer or if like someone’s past catches up with them etc
I don’t even have players go around and introduce their characters at the start of the campaign. I usually have a cold open, dropping them right into the action and once they do something cool (or dumb on occasion) in front of another character I let them describe what the other sees. It makes character introductions so much more dynamic and exciting and let’s players describe their character as a living, breathing, heroic adventurer instead of a lifeless mannequin. It’s how I’ve always done it and I can’t imagine doing it any other way.
Charlie does what Charlie wants to do, not because it's going to be a successful venture. He made a wrestling show even though his audience isn't into wrestling. He's involved in ESports even though ESports groups all lose money. Charlie is the ultimate master of the yolo principle.
Absolutely, I have a ton of respect for him launching a D&D show (just because he wants to) even though his audience may not even know what it is
Charlie is pretty brave to be starting a live play show at such a tumultuous time in the hobby. Hopefully that speaks to his love of this game, and that love will show as this campaign goes on.
Thank you for posting, this video is really clear and concise! Looking forward to more from you :)
Absolutely agree, thanks for watching!
I don't play DnD, but I'm really curious. Do you think you could explain why it's a tumultuous time in the hobby?
@kafkaesque5943 there's a couple reasons, and probably more than I'm listing, but here's a few;
-there was a big fiasco with Wizards of the Coast (company that owns/makes D&D) regarding their ethics when trying to, intentionally or unintentionally, shut down 3rd party D&D material (of which there's an INSANELY LARGE ecosystem)
-there's a new D&D system releasing next year, with major changes to the game. People are uncertain of how well it's going to be recieved, given the previous point and some of the major changes. Its future is uncertain for many fans.
@@kafkaesque5943 also, at the same time as the intentional or unintentional threat to 3rd party creators, their own material has been pretty shaky recently, giving the impression that they don't much care about making the game good anymore but just want people's cash.
@@kafkaesque5943and to add to that, they just laid off 1100 employees at WOTC that don’t conform to their profit first model and are instead passionate about the game
definitely agree with you on the backstories. i think it feels more compelling for the characters to get to know each other organically.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. Thanks for watching :)
I mean, even if they did dump the backstories... They could have done so in character. After they meet, they gather someone and go around the table "What's your story? What makes you Hugh Fructose?"
Those moments can be great roleplay and then you don't have to have the prowess of navigating a dynamic narrative for timely reveals... You just tell them, but you do so how your character might. Maybe even lie about your backstory if you still want secrets. But this, what I will call, voice of god style exposition dump where we know the story for a fact-it just could have been handled better.
I agree that it's better for a show, but in an actual game I always ask the players to introduce themselves and I tell them not to hide things from each other. Though if there's mysteries related to the character, I'll usually do that after the fact.
@@BrandonPaul yeah an introduction is fine, but in general there's no reason to tell a couple of randos you just met your life story, like, a simple description of your character and maybe your name is all they need, they can learn your name, trade, age, story, etc by talking to the character, the same way you would learn an npc's backstory. In general, it makes for better roleplay to just let the players talk to each other instead of just "you all met in a tavern, you already know each other's name and backstories, now, your mission is to..." at least in my opinion of course, everyone is welcome to run their games the way they want.
@@fall-from-grace1008 That's a good point. It depends on the players too. Like we just started a session today and the players haven't said anything about backstory yet. I'm just saying that I don't think it's abnormal if they want to choose to do that.
I think part of the difficulty here with the “bad” is that they look like they’re playing like it’s their home-table, which there’s nothing wrong with imo, but there are different considerations when creating something meant to be consumed media. Kind of like having two audiences: those at the table and those on the other side of the screen, and both have to be catered to to an extent. Doable but not always easy.
It also doesn’t help that I think a lot of people have certain expectations that they want from APs thanks to other certain mainstream series, unfortunately
Yeah I absolutely agree. Nothing they’re doing is necessarily bad or wrong, but in the aspect of making the show for viewers, unfortunately some things work and some things don’t. Although that’s open to debate of course.
Thanks for watching!
You don't need to do voices, but everyone digs them that actually plays. I tend to do it for the beginning of the game. The players say they remember the whole game with voices afterwards
Yeah voices definitely make NPCs more memorable, that’s the biggest plus I’ve found
I was super interested in skill check, but as soon as the characters gave away their backstories, I lost interest. I'm glad you covered that point.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t like them giving their backstory straight away. I just think it’s so much more rewarding to find that stuff out, in character. Thanks for watching!
this is so trueeee i always just lose interest right away
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam
Critical Role Campaign 1 did it, but that's because we joined in the middle of the campaign.
It doesn't work at the start.
I think it depends on the style of game. Not everyone wants to be Critical Role or have some deep narrative. I think people forget that other people play the same game differently.
Was blown away to see such a small subscriber count, incredible second outing! Everything was really well said and formatted, and I look forward to seeing what’s next.
Thanks so much!
Foray feels like that one trouble player at every table. he for sure has main character syndrome. When Charlie finally decided to get involved and have his big character moment (transforming to intimidate the crowd), Foray immediately felt the need to insert himself in and give the “help action” when it really wasn’t necessary. This is especially bad on a table with 7 people and only doing 2 hour sessions. It felt like only Foray and the Wizard were getting involved.
Although not playing on a regular basis, even I noticed an increase in people playing or at least knowing about D&D, especially after Stranger Things. I think it really blew up after the first season of the show. Sure, through gaming, cosplay and formerly manga/anime, my friends are more prone to know and play D&D to begin with, but even my not-so-nerdy friends know it by now.
Oh and I let my DM know, that I can roll with advantage so she let me do a luck roll for tomorrow. 10 and 3, so neither lucky, nor unlucky - or life as usual as I would say 😂
Haha hopefully your luck got better than that
I'm in the middle of watching the hotdog warehouse mission (episode "17") and the show has improved 1000% now that everyone is settled more. It's one of the few things I look forward to watching regularly.
Absolutely! The last ep I watched was fantastic
I DM a 7 and 8 player campaign and play in a 4 player one and there's a 6 player campaign I'm joining coming up. Big player pools can be difficult at times but I've found that in the big groups a lot of the PCs try to find ways to involve the quieter characters so that they don't get left out. I could also see big groups working far better at an actual table, all my games are online as my friends are on the other side of the continent so we've got to be really thoughtful and not talk over each other but if you're at a table you can have side conversations or make quiet quips without interrupting anyone. One of my friends also has another group he plays in that can have up to like 20 PCs in a session at once and apparently they're still going so it's just about figuring out how to make it work and what works best for your table.
Whoa! You must have the memory of a god, if I was in more than 2 separate games (especially with that many players) I would lose track SO quickly haha 😂
You're right though, if you can make it work, then there's no reason to stop :)
I would argue that Charlie has as much responsibility to make sure that the story goes well, and the other players get their time. It's his show, and personally I wouldn't do a live play without some play testing. Critical Role was already playing their game for some time before streaming.
Personally, my biggest criticism is a lack of music. Music when used correctly dramatically increases the feeling and quality of not only a dnd game but a show.
I was going to mention music, but felt like I was piling on a bit already with the cons. I agree though, music can definitely enhance the immersion
I’m really invested in the Druid Warforged. It’s such a cool concept, but I have to agree with your points.
There are some really cool ideas in Skill Check already, especially when it comes to the characters.
Thanks for watching!
Im surprised that they didnt have a session 0 off camera. I thought those were pretty important in campaigns? The dm and Players can get a feeling of eachothers playstyles/approach while learning the basic mechanics and basic aspects of role playing. Charlie should have been introducing his audience to dnd content on the build up to the premier. Explaining basic mechanics and overall goal of dnd games with the occasional funny clips/epic moments from around the platform. Its an unfortunate start but it will get better if they stick to it
yeah, I think they could have benefited from some form of official video from the Skill Check channel before diving into the campaign, but oh well. I do want to see the show succeed, and 3 eps in it does look to be getting better bit by bit 😀
I've been enjoying it actually. Their newcomers, so it's not a big deal. They're making improvements with each episode
Yeah absolutely, I've noticed huge improvements with every episode, they're doing great 😀
I feel like they didn't really have a session 0 with no cameras but they really should've had. I also find the plot and worldbuilding somewhat confusing and I can't help but to feel like the DMs aren't aware of some key details either. This maybe wouldn't be a problem if we would spend enough time in one place to get to know it but it seems like the plan is to keep hopping from place to place seeking curios for the museum... for some reason. Whereas the players were a bit too open with their backstories the DMs seem either too secretive or too unprepared. While that might work in a home game with a DM that's good at ad-lib, I find that a bit more structure makes for a more pleasant and interesting viewing experience.
Some very good points. I always like to run a session 0 as well, definitely helps shed some of the first session issues off camera
I agree with keeping most information to dialog generally, but I have had groups agree to share some character sheets and backstory as well as go over some general lore (stuff they should know or assume especially) to help my new players. It really depends on who the people are. If you have some shy newbies and your veterans are happy to share and help them out, it can be very vital to building their confidence and then you ween them off of that extra information as they go along or start them in future games without anything their character shouldn't know.
Also, I think the Foray complaints were overblown. He seemed to be having fun to me and everyone else was still being shy and getting comfortable. It becomes especially clear after watching episode 2, but I felt that way before I saw it.
Very fair points! I hope I didn’t make it seem like I completely dislike Foray, on the contrary I think he is one of the most interesting at the table so far, especially into ep. 2
I didnt even see charlie play. Times are rather incopatible .
This video just made me wanna see where they go now.
As i am a big dnd nerd dming over 5 years now
That's awesome, always happy to hear from a long time DM. Thanks for watching 😀
Crisp vid def gonna sub, but yeah i agree with essentially everything you said but i think they have the potential to overcome the rough start. The dms, Charlie, Matt, and Caleb all seem really passionate about the game even if caleb burned a little too brightly in the first episode. Matt especially, Shark is such a treat so far. My biggest worry is the lack of enthusiasm from some of the players but I'll chalk it up to nerves of the first episode.
Very well said, I completely agree 👏🏻
@RoguesRollCall-Cam i don't know if you watched the second episode yet, but it's much better than the first imo. Most of the players i was worried about opened up a lot more and even Danny as Valar seemed to be a little more comfortable. I'm still quite worried about Caleb and at some points I'd say he's worse but talked a little less so that's a plus. Not sure he's long for the show, dude gives off HUGE Orion Acaba vibes.
i love how matt's like nervous and marisha is like "yeah its confusing"
😂 then Travis comes in trying to be the voice of reason and Sam comes in to stir them up haha. Love it
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam I didn’t see the full clip but that fits their personalities for sure
Very excited about this 😊 great first two videos 👍 keep up the good work
Thank you!
I started watching this video assuming that your channel must have been around for years and you must have hundrets of thousands of subscribers, when I heard that this was your second (!) ever video, I instantly subbed. Awsome Video format, edeting and pacing so far, excited to see what comes next from you!
Thanks so much, that's super nice of you to say!
Yeah episode 1 was a bit rocky but it just gets better and better the lastest episodes have been super fun and honestly it seems like it will be one of the best DnD shows out there ( at least from ones i have experienced )
Absolutely! I've been watching the newer episodes too and it's definitely getting better
Excited to see more, about to start a group myself so I'll ne staying tuned, subscribed 😀
That’s awesome Andrew! Best of luck with the new group, have fun
I love Charlie and DnD. Just wasn't that into it and i couldn't tell you why
That's completely fair
If charlie truely loves it, I believe the demo will evolve and grow in the right direction.
I absolutely agree 👏🏻
For this format, where the main foci are the narrative and these eclectic characters and where game mechanics are kept light, I would think that the Fate RPG would be a much better choice.
But name recognition and all that.
Yeah, I think there's definitely a larger conversation to be had about D&D (at least seeming to) be the the most accessible TTRPG for new players, based purely on media
@@RoguesRollCall-Cam For that, I would like to nominate Quest (the one found on adventure.game). Flat d20 rolls, one universal table, a wide variety of abilities, and a handy resource for keeping the more powerful abilities from being spammed.
I just started watching and recently finished the Xmas episode so like 4.5 episodes in. it definitely gets better after ep 1 but as someone who doesn't really play D&D or watch any other shows like this my biggest issue that is still persisting is the group hardly seems to know each other and the characters seem to have no sort of relationships with one another idk if that's common in these games but after consuming almost 12 hours worth of content i feel like all these characters should have atleast talked to one another by now IDK if charlie's character has ever spoken to anyone besides Shark and I totally forget Valaar is a character 99% of times. this group is meshing as well as oil and water.
Another banger, back to back!
Thanks Joshua! :D
I am amazed at the quality of the video seeing how you are a new youtuber, I could easily been told you were a big channel that was going for years and believed that
Thanks so much for the kind words!
Dude whats this background music in ur video its so good
It was an old copyright free backing track from years and years ago called FF Dreaming, but it ended up being taken down at some point. I just had a quick look now though and think I found a re-upload, called 'Dreaming Music - Final Fantasy Like Music"
I was really let down by the show tbh :/ i hope it gets better. good video I loved how respectful you were about it too
Thanks so much! Yeah, I’m confident it will get better, once everyone finds their groove
Personally I didn't mind much of the first episode and still found myself interested in the campaign. I think that foray is actually right now my favorite character but I can see where he might overstep into being a little too obnoxious. I think that now that it's been a few weeks and a few more episodes have come out foray has been comfortable at least for me. And I see that the player is pretty dedicated to the roleplay which might be why the character is as interesting to me as he is. But as a not so experienced player perhaps I am not seeing where he might be possibly overbearing. Now that you mention the backstory element I understand how that would improve the story and interest going forward. As someone who has just recently started getting into DnD more often in my college club I guess being a more casual player that is quite often around new players might be why some of these things didn't immediately stick out. Especially the backstories as a lot of games I've been in players typically reveal these elements out of character somewhat casually or not at all. My interest might also be because I think my favorite part of DnD is watching new people give it a try. And this show feels a lot more familiar to the play groups that I have interacted with in which many of the players are either brand new or have only played maybe 1-2 longer campaigns. And usually the DM is the only person there with any true experience and understands out positions and runs a game accommodating for that mindset. But I enjoy that space as often leads to a lot of creative moments as players explore what they're allowed to do or first dipping their feet into roleplaying or the more interactive combat. I also agree that I hope this gets more people interested in the game as a whole. I do hope that in the future the show finds it's footing and cements itself into a place that a broader audience can enjoy. I don't speak from a ton of experience so this opinion may not be all that helpful. But I do think this video was a very polite and thoughtful critique overall.
Really well said, and thanks for the kind words 😀 I agree by the way, with the new episodes, Foray is definitely growing on me. He definitely has the most personality haha
Instant subscribe! Great analysis & enjoyable to listen too, excited to see more vids
I think that this video arrived at the wrong moment. A ton of what you said will be confirmed or refuted in future episodes and what I ended up getting from your video was: this is cool/not cool but let's wait to see how it goes. And to be honest, I think that everyone can say the same about basically anything that hasn't ended yet. I would have preferred to have a more detailed video after maybe 5 or more released episodes were out so that we could have a real feel at what this show may offer to potential viewers.
Also, nothing wrong with the way they presented their character stories, as this looks more like a "this is the way our table plays" contrary to trying to be another CR like show, which I believe is way more valuable as it shows that the game can be played and enjoyed in different ways and not necessarily the "more compelling" to you or anyone who isn't at the table. I personally respect that even if I like to play more on the way you describe when talking about what you would have preferred.
Having said all that, I'm looking forward to future videos, liked and suscribed.
agreed. First thought was that it's literally only been 2 videos.
Sure, thanks for watching and for the feedback. I did stress in the video that this is only episode one, and none of the cons were dealbreakers and I am confident they’ll do fine going forward. Also that the cons (particularly the backstory thing) were based on my own personal preferences.
Regardless, I do appreciate you watching and giving me some critiques of my own. Thanks again 😃
Such a thorough and well structured analysis! Aggree 100%!
That's kind of you to say, thanks so much :D
Great analysis on this. I want Skill Check to succeed. Charlie has a large pull and a massive audience, and when he covered the OGL stuff by watching Crit Crabs video he exploded his growth with fans of Charlies content which I don’t doubt spilled over into other DnD channels. I’d love to chat on this topic with you on stream sometime :)
I couldn't agree more, I wanted to make it super clear in my video that despite any "negatives" I mention, I want Skill Check to succeed and for all the players/DMs involved to have fun. Hopefully that came across. The more people that are introduced to the game the better.
Also, that sounds like fun, I'd love to! Christmas is a tricky time of course, but I'm sure we can work something out for a future date if you'd like. I'm over on Twitter @ CamWolfshot
Awesome. Followed you and I’ll message you when you follow back because apparently Twitter took another feature away and doesn’t let me message people unless they follow back anymore lmfao
@@CrowePerch haha oops. Gave you a follow now!
420th Subscriber
Also, really surprised you're not more popular, love the voice
Thanks so much! 😀
solid review! I also started my Russian DnD channel last month. I highly reccomend shorts! Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the advice! I'll give shorts a try :)
Been following you Cam for a while on your other channels. Happy to see your love of DnD. If you like podcasts, I suggest Dungeons and Daddies. (Not a BDSM Podcast). It's very creative and entertaining and funny! Stay cool Cam!!
Thanks so much Michelle!
The parry size is a huge thing. I currently have 7 players (in number crunching god damned pathfinder 1e), and it's a lot. Even for a non-professional environment. I'm sort of dreading telling 1 or 2 of them I'd rather not have them in my next campaign just because of size.
Oh damn, that does sound like a pretty hard thing to manage. Combat must be super tricky to keep track of, right? Hopefully your players are understanding, in wanting to have a smaller party. I think you’re well within your rights to want to bring the number down a bit
Thanks for watching by the way 😃
@RoguesRollCall-Cam Of course. Loved the video. I have found and made a few tools to help combat go more smoothly. Auto initiative trackers and dice rollers for my enemies. The big issue is time. 5e with 7 players is manageable due to the action economy of that game and comparative simplicity. Pathfinder gives everyone so many options and actions each turn. Spells read like a novel. And there are so many tiny rules to easily forget about, like the 5ft step during a full round action.
I've learned to lean more into the roleplay, wave of the hand, GM bs, rule of cool style.
Oh wow, here I was thinking 5e still had long combat with more than 4 players, I can't even imagine how hard it must be to manage all that in Pathfinder. You must be doing pretty well though, to stay on top of it
Interesting, going to give it a watch. I think the tone and criticisms of this video seem very fair. In terms of ideal party size, as a DM, I prefer 3 or 4 players, and I definitely wouldn't co-DM. Remember, Critical Role campaign 1 wasn't as produced, especially in the beginning. Also, they massively struggled with a player who had "main character syndrome," who left shortly into the show.
Personally, I prefer actual plays of TTRPGs rather than shows. For me, Critical Role is over-produced and more radio show than game - which is not to rag on it, just to point out that, for me, it no longer feels like D&D.
I can definitely understand your point about Critical Role. I love those guys, but yeah they’re definitely more entertainers trying to entertain, which isn’t a bad thing of course
I'd give it some time too. Yeah, It'll be cringe/boring for a bit here and there, but things will settle and they'll become more seasoned.
Absolutely 👏🏻
This is the best thing I ever saw.
damn man, really well made
only critique and no hate, maybe shorten the intro a little bit :)
Thanks for watching! Feedback noted, I can definitely work on keeping the intros more to-the-point :)
Hopefully he keeps it up. I like seeing other peoples stories
Agreed!
Great break down man 💪
Thanks! 😃
they prob should of made episode 0 (session 0 ) Classic new dnd player blunder tbh
Yeah, a session 0 can be a huge help, especially with some new players at the table
2 for 2 on good videos ✌🏼
Thanks, I appreciate that 😊
Wtf? Lol people wanted animation? But to be honest my boy rustage got the dnd game on lock imo. I actually like his characters yeah some things will always be cringe but his characters are just entertaining even the cringe ones. Also i already like all the people he plays eith so even when they slow everything down to make jokes its usually still entertaining.
Oh shit another Rustage DnD viewer in the wild lol
The DM looks as if Matt Mercer had a baby with Matthew Colville.
I saw that video... But honestly, I only watch every other of Charlie's videos anyways unless it really grabs my attention.
I am a big D&D (or, okay, I am a big "greater TTRPG space") guy and I didn't even know that this thing happened. First it was College Humor, then Smosh, now Charlie? Could be living in worse times, I suppose... Could be living in better.
Don't read too much into that last sentence, I just really like Pathfinder, okay? And not 2e, 1e. I know, I know, not very much "greater" on that TTRPG space... But a little greater.
Yeah, DnD is definitely taking off recently, with the movie and BG3. Thanks for watching and your thoughts 😃
hey since you have more experience in DnD, can you research and do a video on Pokemon DnD. There's only a handful of videos made for it, but I'd like it if someone could dumb it down for me.
I’m not familiar with Pokémon D&D, but I can certainly take a look. It sounds like a pretty fun idea 😃
I like this new channel
Thanks! 😊
i mean really its just for the fun of the players, so however they play it that makes them have fun is fine by me
100% agree 👏🏻
7 players jesus christ
Revealing your backstory in the first session is one if the big no no's for me in role playing games. It really does rob the fellow players, the audience and yourself of truly experiencing the best parts if your character during the journey. I understand that not everyone plays like that but I really think that for the audience's sake, they should have revealed it iver the course of the story. In my current campaign it took me 3 months for my fellow players to learn about my backstory ehich explains how I treated certain party members and everyone just thinks my character is more layerd and interesting because if it
Yeah, I don’t want to dictate the play style of that group too much, but as a viewer it would have been much more exciting to learn the backstory’s over time.
Thanks for watching!
This kind of brings up a sentiment that I've seen recently that is starting to sound more and more true to me.
Despite what everyone says, D&D is NOT actually about telling a story, at least not in the way people think. D&D isn't scripted, and while the DM may plan for certain things to happen, the best "stories" in D&D arise organically through play.
The story comes later, as a RESULT of playing characters and acting as they would. D&D isn't about telling stories, it's about roleplaying characters, and if you invest into playing that character and getting fully immersed in playing them, the stories write themselves.
We shouldn't go in with the mindset of "telling a story". We should go in with the mindset of playing a game where the game is playing a character.
Similarly, many DM's will have a much easier time if they don't put so much work into "being a storyteller" and instead allow the story to play out more naturally and responding to what the player characters do.
That's a really interesting way to look at it Jacob, and I don't disagree with you, although I think personally that telling a story and playing the game aren't mutually exclusive. I know for me at least, I go in with the intention of doing both. I absolutely see your point though, very interesting thoughts
I think its great!
That’s awesome 😃
For anyone who remembers a channel, Node. They have a few d&d series. They’re pre recorded so it’s edited and such, but entertaining enough to make ya want to try out d&d.
Thanks for the recommendation 😃
I still remember that one time Moist played on Arcadum's show he played a trash druid...
Late reaponse here, but oh my god that took me back. Sadly I don’t watch Arcadum anymore ever since the whole drama stuff around sexual harassment started. But yes to me hearing that Charlie was making a dnd show was not a surprise, but a shock that it happend. I’ll give the show a watch when there are more episodes to better assess it. Also side in that campaign with arcadum, Charlie played a Goliath wild magic sorcerer, But yeah I can see why some would think he was a Druid. Hell arcadum made a system for Charlie involving absorbing trash around the ecosystem into magic which gave his character minor buffs. It was very fun to watch so I have hope that Charlie and his team will improve as it goes and just generally have fun.
Critical fans are from the bowels of the most shitty message boards anyone could find, after episode two they won't care they just don't like new things
It's still better than Game Grump D&D which had no visuals whatsoever.
the second episode was a lot better
Absolutely!
First time viewing your channel. I definitely liked your discussion throughout this video but as someone who hasn't watch the actual show, we as the unaware viewers need to hear audio clips from the show as examples of your points.
Especially when you mention when the one guy was being a toxic / annoying player. You show the chat reaction and you talk about your reaction, but we never get to witness any of it ourselves unless we were to navigate away from this video to go watch it (something we aren't going to do when you're talking about how cringe it is 😋).
Just my two cents! Great job editing the video and organizing, but perhaps include just a wee bit more concrete examples (i.e. include original audio)
That’s some very fair feedback for me, thanks for taking the time to let me know. I wasn’t sure how much I could get away with using clips and audio from the show, but you’re right, I could have shown more examples.
Thanks again for watching
@RoguesRollCall-Cam Yeah you're doing great man. As someone who's made a couple TH-cam channels for various things, I appreciate your editing and I know getting those extra clips can be a lot of work, but I do think it would help woth engagement. I think you'll be OK sharing a handful of clips with audio for the purpose of critiquing. Plenty of channels so this with no issue, even with well known shows like Critical Role so you'll be alright. If you use music (or the clip has really loud music) that's when you'll get dinged by the copyright stuff.
Good luck with the channel man! I'm subbed looking forward to more :)
Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it 😊
As somebody who has never played dnd, and has only watched a bit of Adventure is Nigh (the escapists dnd show before they imploded) Skill Check just felt extremely sloppy. I pretty much only listened to adventure is nigh, and they did a great job of painting a picture for the audience, very clearly relaying any die rolls or actions taken. I tried to listen to Skill Check for roughly a half hour and had to stop. I could barely tell what was happening.
That's fair, I can definitely see how it wouldn't be for everyone
So you can't just make a new CR out of nowhere... huh... how come?
I don't get why so little D&D (or any tabletop) shows actually use editting
Like I get it CR doesn't but
dungeons & daddies and some dimension 20 do it
to great success
like dare to cut stuff out, add in some visuals if you can
it's a video platform yet the standard seems to be to just upload stuff raw, even though I'd enjoy even the more mediocre stuff if they just edited it instead of wasting everyone's time
Yeah I can certainly understand your point. I personally find something endearing in seeing it "raw" but I don't think it would hurt to use some cuts here and there when needed, maybe a few flashy visuals for the special moments, sure
Would be cool if they weren’t playing 5e
i dont like how the dm steers them so quickly
That’s a fair critique. Thanks for watching by the way 😃
you stole content, don't thank@@RoguesRollCall-Cam
😂 what? What stolen content are you on about?
Jesus Christ if people expected this to be anything like CR. Not every thing needs people’s opinion lol 😂 if you don’t like it don’t watch doesn’t mean that it’s not entertaining to see how a game is actually played. If you find it boring sounds like you have a stimulation issue probably caused by short handed content. Skill check is real and raw at least in my experience with DnD. Everyone at the table is just having fun and if you find that boring I wouldn’t want to be a part of a game where you just focus on the gameplay. I think their game is very interesting and progressing relatively well.
I don’t know if your comment is directed AT me, but I literally said at the start of the video it wouldn’t be fair to compare it to Critical Role. I also never said Skill Check is bad.
It is a show, people are allowed to give their opinions on stuff they watch online, that’s what you just did in your comment. Relax.
7 is so many players. It barely works for Critical Role, who are way more experienced at it.
It's official, "cringe" has changed it's meaning.
I feel like its inappropriate for people to want animations in a DnD game. Like...were they expecting Bauldr's Gate? Like, you can't expect a Stage Play to look like Movie, and you can't expect a DnD game to look like a stage play...or anything, but a DnD game. Show or not, if the show transforms itself too much to be entertaining for the audience, it can stop being entertaining for the players, and worse, it can stop being an actual TTRPG game. TTRPGs shouldn't mold to be "entertaining", you should watch TTRPG shows if you think TTRPGs are entertaining for you
yeah I think that's pretty well said. I think doing a few flashy things to make a D&D show more interesting is okay, but only in very small amounts, otherwise it just distracts from the story and the people at the table. That's my thoughts anyway
Look up isekai d&d.
This isnt anything new, when you're playing with newbies who only come from shitposting memes and video games, you have to accept the fact that their first run in a D&D world is going to be highschool banter that goes around in circles.
Actually maintaining a stream of conscious thought long enough beyond the constant losing battle between enabling invasive ADHD thoughts, is really hard for that crowd. You just have to give them time and slowly show them how fun it is to "do the whole show without derails"
I think the fans knew exactly what DnD is but he has gathered mainly a group of people who like to troll others on the internet. Even though they had a rough start I think it's wrong to use Critical Role as a comparison because that's more scripted and ran by professional voice actors.
I think the problem is a lot of people do not think it’s scripted. Like there’s some people I have met who will actually looked me dead in the eye and said well critical role is just a game between friends.😂
@@smokedbeefandcheese4144 I have one of those friends too.
Yeah I think a large portion of Charlie’s audience aren’t really the types to view D&D as anything but cringe, but if even a few of them give it a go, that’s a win I suppose.
Yeah I did stress in the video that comparing Skill Check to CR wouldn’t be fair, for quite a few reasons
@@smokedbeefandcheese4144How is it scripted lol? U guys don’t understand what improv is and it shows
Why are they sitting at such a high table? Or on such low chairs?!? Charlie himself, and the token chick on the end look like hobbits.
They're short.
Haha I honestly didn’t even notice that, but I suppose Charlie is notoriously a short king 😂
dude those character intros sound like their reading a cringe filled average reddit post about a dnd oc
They play DND how they play DND. That's it.
Isn't the point of watching a DND show to see how they put their spin on the formula?
Imagine you're playing with your friends then a group of ten people walk into your home and start immediately criticizing how you're playing. Even though it's your game. They could just leave and not watch it instead they stay to tear you down.
I thought the new age of inclusive DND would make this kind of content disappear. Where you pick apart an experience, which doesn't make something positive, because are going to play how they want to play anyway, but it definitely makes something negative in saying this way of playing is bad, it's not entertaining, it's a waste of time. While I'm sure as a creator you don't mean any of this, you know what it's like to receive these comments I doubt you'd actually want to go out of your way to belittle a group of friends just having fun. This is still the Internet and as we both know, context doesn't exist. It's sad that you're helping the stigma of there's a better way to play ?
( I remember the dark ages of critical role superiority)
Yes I know for a fact you didn't mean any of this, and you were 300% respectful.
It doesn't erase the impact of the main (accidental) point of your writing.
The more everything changes the more everything stays the same.
I agree with you but the problem with your comparison is that if I’m playing with my friends I didn’t ask these ten people to come watch and criticize our play. In skill check they’re willingly broadcasting this to thousands people many which are hardcore players. They will criticize them and I don’t see a problem with that since it’ll make the show better for people to watch.
Whoa whoa whoa. I completely agree that having strangers come and criticise how you play D&D would be super unnecessary, but Skill Check is a show made at least partly for an audience, and for entertainment, things made for entertainment can always be reviewed. I said all this at the start of the video. I don’t think even once in the video did I do any “tearing down” , I didn’t say it’s bad as a whole, or not entertaining, and I absolutely never belittled it or said it’s a waste of time. What I did say (multiple times) is that as long as they are having fun, none of my critiques really matter. As a whole, I also said I think Skill Check has great potential and I’m glad it exists.
I appreciate you taking the time to watch and leave a comment, but I don’t think it’s fair to paint this whole video which contains a ton of praise for the show, as just a negative criticism piece. Anyway, I get the point of what you’re saying, and I don’t even disagree with the core of it. D&D can be played however you want, I was just talking about some things that I either liked or didn’t like, as a viewer of a show.
Thanks again for watching
I get you are just starting a chanel but don't use a ai image as your pfp and banner 👎.
This tools are really hurting artists and their income
???? 😂😂😂