DIY Turbo Manifold Merge Collector: Fabrication and Welding
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2021
- If you're looking for how to make a merge collector and need the details - I hope this video helps. I cover building a stainless steel pipe merge collector from the basic geometry to the finished collector.
throttle-stop-garage.creator-... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I'm glad to know that it's not just me being particular, when I take so much time to get pieces fitted. I like them close enough that a smear of Elmer's would fill the gaps. Of course, I don't build it with Elmer's, unless it's a model of whatever I'm building.😊
But this has been enough help, that I'll watch it at least a couple more times. Thanks!
Birds of a feather. I'd rather spend time on a neat fit up than trying to fill a hole I just blasted through a part!
Solid work, always a joy to watch your progress. TFS and binky are very good sources of knowledge and inspiration.
Justin was very helpful - it's nice to have real people on YT that will answer a question.
Learn so much from this channel, though I don't think ill even make my own merge collector!
But at least you'll know where to start if you ever do!
you are really doing a cracking job - nice that you acknowledged the people that have helped you along - make the noise !
Always!
This gives me great confidence to try make my own. Thank you very much for this (2 year old) video. Time to have a crack at one 💪
You can do it!
To my eye it looks like a real professional made that, great job!
Thank you! Cheers!
I don't think I'll ever want to make my own collector, but I feel confident I could give it a try based on your explanation. Love all the details you continually include.
Well...if you put that 5 cylinder in the 944 - it sure would be a shame to not force feed it.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thankfully Boost Brothers Garage already makes a complete kit for the 07k 5-cylinder swap into a 944. But a custom manifold is definitely more interesting. ECS Tuning is building one for their off-road 944 build.
Love the BOM Easter eggs. Stellar work my man.
Appreciate it!
Awesome job on the collector, and the explanation, thanks.
Looking forward to the next episode.
More to come!
I am really happy that I found your channel! The way you explain everything is perfect
Happy to help.
It looks awesome! very nicely done. I'm looking forward to the rest of the turbo manifold :)
Working on it right now. Fingers crossed.
Nicely explained, Justin is a great guy. Built my exhaust with his Pie cut instructions absolute fantastic.
Right on!
Amazing stop motion
1150 frames - shot one at a time. It was fun.
pretty impressive for your first collector. Looks better than some of the stuff companies sell
Thanks.
Nice looking collector! And that animation was amazing! All you make and film and edit comes out so professional looking, wish I had that kind of patience to setup and edit even one of my videos. Good job as always.
Much appreciated!
Excellent video! From the mathematics lesson to the bad obsession shout out but mainly the Red Green motto of Keep Your Stick On The Ice!!
Thanks.
I like The Fabrication Series also. Haven't asked any questions yet as I'm not set up for series welding yet, I weld like a farmer for now. I really enjoy this build.
Thanks.
Best explanation so far on figuring out those initial angles.
Glad it was helpful!
That is awesome! All your work is so precise, nice job.
Thank you very much!
Honestly what i learned is to value the time that it takes to build awesome stuff 👍👍
Very true!
Another AWESOME episode. 👍👍😎👍👍....... and a fantastic result. Justin, don’t know the details of what you added, but thanks for your guidance to make this collector such a success 😁
Thanks - Of all the YT people I've contacted for various things...only two have ever replied. They're the real Legends.
Dang Throttle, that turned out very nice! Cheers, Doug
Thanks!
Everything you do is so well done!
Thanks!
Nice, this is exactly what I might do with my Subaru and forgo an uppipe with an internally gated EFR turbo ...
Excellent - keep it simple.
wow. I have no intention of ever needing of even trying this, but boy you make great videos. Love your work 👍
Thanks.
sweet! will be embarking on fabricating an exhaust soon, the merge collector is the one part i'm jittery about.
I really hope this helps!
That's a really nice part! A lot of references to other channels in this video 😁
That's part of the fun!
Great informative video, thank you for sharing. I'm sure I will have to watch this a few times to follow the angles
Glad it was helpful!
exactly what I've been looking for. the applied form for the math. very nice sir, many thumbs up.
Thanks, glad it was helpful.
Your work is such an inspiration! Keep it up!
Thank you so much!
You can make me a turbofold absolutely anyday love the channel and love your work great episode
Thanks! Glad you're finding the content useful.
Beautiful job, I had to stop and check where I was when I saw the BO cup, thought I'd spaced onto another channel.
Thanks. There was a lot of tea consumed making this collector.
It was a good idea to make your merge size for size on hole diameters. Then it’s a case of trim and heat bully it to get the required outlet diameter. It’s a ton more work than I expected.
The back-purge should be just enough to keep the part filled with argon. No need for a significant flow.
I've often wondered if it is possible to purge and hold the shielding gas. There should be no reason to have to flow once purged.
That collector math is pretty interesting and nice stop motion! That must have taken a while to make haha
It was a fun project.
Amazing work as always!
Thank you! Cheers!
@@ThrottleStopGarage I think I have heard back purging also makes the welds stronger.
A sound weld is a strong weld.
Another great vid, love your work, please keep it up
Thanks, will do!
Loved that Nut Cracker animation !!!
It was a lot of fun to do.
Nice fit up and very good weldup.
Thanks.
This turned out beautifully. I think you discount your welding ability a bit more than you should. It's plenty better than passable and you aren't getting paid to weld for Rolls-Royce or Bentley, so the quality of your welds only needs to be structural, since you can afford to grind back and clean up everything afterward.
Thanks - I don't weld nearly as often as I'd like...and I do love it when it comes out pretty.
Great video... awesome that you're using a 5 cylinder. Too bad it's the wrong one :D (Just kidding, the Volvo is appropo for what you're building, I'm just a VW/Audi guy).
LOL - who wasn't influenced by the 80's Audi Group B cars?
Very nice. Well made.
Thank you! Cheers!
excellent job mate. well done
Thank you! Cheers!
At the 19 minute mark - you say not perfect? I say Work Of Art!
Thanks - I'm happy with it.
I love the "push and pray" method. ^__________^
Welding by sound...not advised. LOL.
With those lovely fits you could have tacked the tubes internally, welded the collector flange where access is good and then bronze brazed the remaining joints. Just a thought.
I should have trusted the weld more and just done a single pass. It worked well and I'm not sure a brazing process will stand up to the heat cycles and vibration.
You're my spirit animal.
LOL - this made my day!
Excellent. And a BOM mug. Nice.
Thanks - one day the boys from Binky will know how much we all love them.
For a moment I thought I was watching Soup classic motoring with the Stop Motion filming 🎥
George is an inspiration!
Mr. Fancy Pants! :D You're always one step ahead, I've a weld practice session upcoming. Try spinning a 12ft chassis on the horizontal plane.
@@soupclassicmotoring Keep your arc tight mate!
This is where using CAD is indispensable. You can model all the tubes and their angles as well as design any jigs or components that may need to be CNCd such as cutting flat flanges.
I'm still not 100% confident in my CAD skills. It would be best to have a 3D model of the engine bay and work from there.
@@ThrottleStopGarage no no no. Im talking the merge collector. The amount of time to set up the angles for the 5 tubes can literally be done in 2 minutes. In Fusion360 (which has a free version) you would make a single tube, set an initial angle and then make it a circular pattern of 5. It would set them each at 72 degs and you can then adjust the angles to where youre happy. After that, you can use the merge command to cut away each pipe where they intersect and even make a flat pattern of a pipe that you can print on paper and wrap around the real tubing. While having a 3d scan and cad model of the engine would be cool, most stuff can be done in small chunks that you iterate from real life back to the computer and back again. Think of the program as a piece of paper youre writing dimension in and it draws for you.
@@mattnsac I'm going to have to try to model the merge. It will probably take me more than 5 minutes, but it's a challenge.
Thank you for simplifying that.
Glad it was helpful!
@@ThrottleStopGarage you're 100% with people trying to act secret squirrel when it comes to the formula but wow you simplified the hell out of that.
Great work, TSG. Very informative carbon fiber work. I was wondering what you and everyone else thinks about linear vs radial collectors? No one is doing the former so I was wondering why?
Like a log manifold? They package really well and can be made to work just fine. The guys over at Skid Factory use logs all the time. While a log style manifold represents a bit of a compromise for flow and scavenging, they've even been used in F1 lately. So if space is at a premium, size it up and it will work. The tube style where we're feeding individual runners into a merge collector are more efficient/flow better but are harder to package and harder to make. I wanted the challenge.
@@ThrottleStopGarage
Thanks for responding. I’m definitely NOT referring to a log manifold but 8 equal length primaries feeding into 1 long, straight collector, in firing order. Linear vs radial.
@@eikodunn I see...I've always built pulse paired manifolds. I've not done the testing but have no reason to doubt that it works. I've also never built a manifold for a V arranged engine, so it's easier to pair the pulses.
Looks very good
Thanks Ron.
Might I recommend a fusion pass on the inside of the vband flange that's going to be one of the hottest points when under boost. If for nothing more than reducing carbon build up in the unwelded seam which can create a hot spot
I've been debating the merits of welding the inside. I'll do it before I finish the header.
@@ThrottleStopGarage been building manifolds for a bit and welding as a living for 15yrs and firmly believe in sharing knowledge
Excellent - that's why I turn the cameras on...to share and the motivation to get work done comes from feedback. So thanks.
Very nice job.
Thank you! Cheers!
Looks awesome !
Thanks.
@@ThrottleStopGarage And I forgot to mention the very nice stop motion footage, that must have been a lot of work, and it looked great. Also enjoyed the Bad Obsession references :-)
It was a lot of fun to do.
Loved this video, thanks!
Thanks!
Surprised with how thick you went for the material. Good welds. Permanent marker is not a good reference for S.S. on temperature range. You don't want to reach, or go beyond 316C, as that's where carbon precipitate will start to become a problem. If you have a temp gun, using that to check around the Heat Affected Zone will let you know if you're putting in too much heat. Your chill block idea is great, and you did a great job spread the heat around with little weld sections at a time. The only thing I saw that would have me concerned about, is when you used your air hammer to shape the end. If that punch was carbon steel, that can imbed carbon into the S.S and cause corrosion in time. Regardless, thank you for a great video. Especially the still motion!!! That was great. A great job!
Thanks - I didn't think about the air tool. Good point.
Cross contamination from carbon steel is from soft steel. 0.401 shank air chisels are tool steel at minimum so risk is minimal. Remember, wrought weld butt fittings and pipe are formed in tool steel dies. And bandsaw blades.
Test stainless fabrications with cleaning, if you find rusting areas, the part can be passivated in a warm citric acid bath.
I'm sorry but he is gonna contaminate that part with carbon from the exhaust when he gets the manifold up to temp either way on the inside...
Thanks for a great video. Very thoughtful preparation and presentation. I did have a question for you - I can’t understand why you needed to reduce the merger interface angle of 72 degrees by the 10 degrees you applied to your angle cut. How do the 5 tubes then make a 360 degree circle. Thanks
It's a 5 cylinder. 5/360=72. The rest is for the compound angle. The tubes splay.
Awesoooommmmeeeeee !!!! job!!!!!
Thank you! Cheers!
Back purge prevents oxidation of the chromium, that and nickel make the black sugaring. This junk that forms is easily corroded, it isn't carbide precipitation . Most 300 series stainless is low carbon, dual certified. Carbon can add strength but makes heat affected zones sensitive. This is most important in dissimilar joining to carbon steel.
And that's why I back purge stainless.
love the homemade pipe wrap and excellent work of fabbing up the collector . one question thou how do you plan to weld all 5 pipes to the collector ?
Well, I can tell you that it's not easy - but you plan it out one pipe at a time and you do the best you can.
@@ThrottleStopGarage im aware , interested to see how you get it done , safe to assume similar to the collector ... weld inside first then do the outside as best as you can ? ..back purging to prevent any sugaring of course
@@ryanaustin1970 that's the idea. Working on the design right now.
nice work
Thank you! Cheers!
Great work. I wonder if it would be ok to silver braze instead of welding.
That would probably add more heat. The trick to welding the inside is limiting the heat and keeping the flange flat.
@@ThrottleStopGarage thanks for the reply. I have an idea for the future for making the underbody of my w124 out of stainless steel and only way to join stainless and mild steel is to brazing i assume. That's why i asked if it would be right for this work too.
Anyway i always appreciate your attention to detail and explanations.
@@SuperBackhere Depends on the grade of stainless - I'd opt for galvanized steel (stay tuned) and remove the coating in the weld area as steel has strength benefits over stainless. If you're going ahead with the stainless underside - then pay attention to the grade of stainless steel and welding wire. 309 is used to weld stainless to mild steel.
Gas flow expert David Vizard says a 15 degree step change has no measurable effect on gas flow while 30 degrees does stir things up. This suggests 20 degrees gives a usable compromise.
I've read all his books and other more academic texts on gas flow. All I can say for sure is that this won't be the biggest problem with the system. Some of the log style and stock units are pretty terrible and still "work". It will be interesting to see how much improved this will be over stock.
An exhaust pipe expander might have helped reshaping the collector end, probably would have had better luck than me on my old collector, but I used 1/8" wall mild steel... MAPP gas was needed for that one. lol
After I hit it with the body hammer for a half hour I was thinking of running it into an exhaust shop and getting them to stretch it out - then I remembered that we're locked down, so DIY.
Almost everything you did was spot on next time put a cone in the press and push the collection point into the circle you need for the the flange
I was looking around the shop for something that would work. I wish I had a lathe.
@@ThrottleStopGarage i have a 1972 24x72 Lodge and Shipley
Perfect channel and awesome video. I have 5 cylinder too but I have 38 OD 3mm tubes and my angle is 13°. So the angle should be 101,5 ° ? I printed the same cap as you did, but I am not sure if I am right as i have different type of cutting jig. The tube is upwards. Thanks
114.5, not 111.5 😁.
Thanks. The orientation of the cutting should not matter - but they do all work a little differently. 13º is a very narrow splay angle. This leads to a lot of welding, a long merge, and may be difficult to weld the runners into the merge. So the marking cap would have to be redone to reflect this splay angle difference. So yes - 114.5º is your angle.
I know, that I will have a tight angle, but i will try it as i want to have the best flow as possible. I will let you know how to ends 😁 Your fabrication skills are perfect and your intake flange as well. Must look on another your videos. Amazing stuff 👌👌
So just to make sure I'm on the right path if I was making a 6 pipe merge collector my little end cap cut angle template should be set at 130⁰ separation if I have a 20⁰ offset the same as yours ÷2=10⁰
360÷6=60⁰
20⁰÷2=10⁰
180-60=130⁰
Cheers Mick
Ps really enjoyed the vid you made
That looks right Mick - do a test part with plastic pipe and make sure.
@@ThrottleStopGarage cheers for the reply ill give it a go first thing in the morning 👍👍👍
Wow man it's not more complicated than I thaught lol was gonna get a grinder onit
Intersecting angles and tubes will cause headaches! Have fun with the grinder.
I've watched again and you've encouraged me to finally order everything and start to make
If you welded less at a time like 4mm could avoid warpage ? I've got spare vbads just in case
@bigbothoee8617 I'd suggest the opposite. Welding a little at a time can heat the part more than you want. Test your settings, get in, and get it done.
Outstanding ! You Canuck’s aren’t that bad after all 🍻.
That is what we would tell you. LOL.
I was considering making an 8 into 1 header for a 4.8L, 5.3L, or 6.0L LS. I was then thinking of splitting the single collector pipe into 2 so I can install a turbo on each of the single pipe. Then running a turbo back exhaust from each turbo so it basically acts like a true dual exhaust. What do you think? Could this actually work or would the plumbing be an absolute nightmare?
It won't be easy and if you pulse paired it between the banks of cylinders it would be a complete nightmare.
The best video for merge collector fab!. Although i have one question. When you cut the jig how narrow or wide it has to be in order to cut the tube in the way that we want. It has to be cut in half the diameter of the tube thar we cut?
Awe, thanks. I appreciate the positive feedback. Take the 118 degrees and half the splay angle. The 118 plotted on the tube are the start and the splay angle applies to that plane. Get some plastic pipe and try it first. It will make sense when you do it.
Thanks i made my 4 to 1 merge collector based on your video and it came out decent. The next one will be even better. Keep up the good work!
Awesome.
Thanks!
Artwork! 😎👍🏻👍🏻
As close as I can get!
@@ThrottleStopGarage It's wonderful to watch. Thank you!
Hey, I had a question if you using a merge collector as a divider,what would be best way on figuring the angles but with different pipe sizing (in my instance 2:1-1/8” outlets , and 1:2”) because smaller exhaust piping but with similar CFM faster flow rate because of the smaller cross sections
That's a question I don't have the answer for. Sorry.
@@ThrottleStopGarage your good! Only thing I’ve found is keeping below 15° for y pipes but those sizes are usually the same meaning it won’t ever cause turbulence, with the different sizes the smaller pipes can only handle so much exhaust flow until the pressure is forced into different the piping (potentially causing over turbulence when filling the other piping)
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Cheers
Welll done that man
Cheers.
Great info
Glad it was helpful!
1150 frames - shot one at a time .
i like to see my PC / hobby work Desk have all the Junk exit from it like this 🙃
LOL - I have done a few stop-motion additions in videos...including clearing the bench. It was fun.
Put a little part of tube betwin it you wil get a beter fit
Very nice job running thru the numbers. Saw the clean work bench and thought, wow what happened here? As a good friend's moto, " Work in shit, build shit."
LOL - well, it's nice and tidy and should stay that way. Can't wait to do a spring cleaning.
hey mate cpuld you please explain where the 180 degrees number comes from when working out that 118 degrees in ur vid plz
If you cut the tube in half - it would be 180 degrees.
good
Thanks
Why does this seem far more "collide-y" than your typical aftermarket header collector? Like, those (incl turbo ones) seem far more parallel than this. Is it just due to your chosen angle? Are there downsides to this type/advantages to the more parallel type?
The angle is all about packaging. You'd like to keep the angle as shallow as possible to help flow. No loss at this angle.
Awww.. Bad Obsession Motorsport cup 😀👍
I love it
20 degree angle is an angle between pipe and axis of symmetry of the collector.
10 degree angle (so you said) is an angle between 2 pipes, but 20 and 10 angles are located on different planes. You can't receive one by dividing another by 2.
Can you elaborate on how it is done then?
@@ThrottleStopGarage, I would be glad to.
I have already performed some calculations. I tried to attach them using a link to image hosting service, but the comment was deleted.
But I will try to share what I've got in this comment:
So, we have two angles that are known. 72 degree angle is located on transverse plane. 20 degree is located on longitudinal plane.
And one angle that is needed to be found.
This angle lays between two neighbour pipes. It also lays on the plane that is different from first two. This plane is inclined to longitudinal plane by 20 degrees and to transverse plane by 70 degrees (90 - 20). Let's call this plane A.
So, the cut angle is half of the angle between the pipes. To find it, we will use the law of cosines.
Okay. Let's say we have base radius R (from 4:44). We also have a right-angled triangle with lesser cathetus R and opposite to it angle equal 20 degrees. hypotenuse is our one pipe. We can find the length of the pipe by dividing R by sin20.
Now let's lee another triangle in plane A.
Two edges are equal R/sin20 as they are pipes. Now to find the angle between them we need to know the third edge.
We are going to transverse plane (where 72 degrees angle is). Third edge also lays on this plane. And we have the third triangle. Two sides of which are R, the angle between them is 72, and the third edge is found by the law of cosine. This edge squared equals to 2R^2 (1 - cos72).
Okay, now we can find the angle between pipes.
We have all three edges of triangle on the plane A.
Using the law of cosine again to find the angle:
R is cancelled out as it should, target angle does not depend on the R if the proportion is preserved.
cos a = 1 - (1 - cos72) sin^2 20 = 0.919
a = 23 degrees.
And half angle of 23 is 11.5. Which is a little different from 10.
Anyway, I just wanted you to explain the math that stands behind your division of 20 by 2.
@@kacejot That's the best description I've ever read of this. Thanks for taking the time. It's really hard to try to explain this geometry simply (I'm a scientist in my day job) - so would need a little forgiveness when I had to take a short cut or two. I don't have the skills to create the visualization to bring this explanation the clarity it needs. I saw it as two inclined planes that I was bisecting and I struggled with how to make this clear. I can visualize it - can't work out how to do the presentation without a ton of work. Anyway - thanks for the great explanation.
@@ThrottleStopGarage, thanks! I just try to understand the bare bones before involving myself into some new direction. Also thanks for the video. Very cool collector.
@@kacejot Best way to learn for sure. If you can model this or otherwise create the visualization - please make the video. Everyone is looking for a quick tutorial on a complex geometric problem!
stop motion was super cool. how long did it take out. next time do time laps of you doing stop motion...👏👏👏👏
It was about 1150 frames - some was cut - it took one evening to build the machine and shoot the frames.
I just got LPS CCF V3 and I need to make a 6 to one collector. I did the 360\6= 60. My cutting angle is at 12 degrees.
5” long schedule 10 stainless
My rotation base on the math.
60-12= 48
Than 180 - 48= 132 is this correct ?
Thank you so much I’m savage and for all
The amazing content you put.
I can say that the math seems right - buy some 1.5" ABS pipe and cut it and test before you cut any steel. Then when you're confident, make sparks.
Was the stop motion a nod to Soup Classic Motoring? Also, why won't Certiflat sell to you?
Of course - George makes the best content on YT. CertiFlat won't sell to Canada. I got the positioner kit through Eastwood...drop shipped from CF - then they closed the loop-hole.
FTW. =FHUT THA WHUCK? 5 CYL clan! 😛. Great work... Great info... Stop motion was awesome.....
For The WIN!
How do you get the intitial diameter for the 5 pipes ?
The inlet flange for the turbo.
Will this work for a 4 to 1 merge collector?
If you use the same process, it will work for any number of tubes.
@@ThrottleStopGarage Thank you for sharing.
😄👍イイね✨
Thanks
Impressive work!!
I've try to replicate your job for make 3 in 1 but unfortunately doesn't work. have you try before to make one of them?
I've only made this 5:1 and 2:1 merge collectors. 3:1 is 120 degrees not including the merge angle. My advice is to get some plastic pipe and experiment until you get it to work.
That's the first time something remains unclear: WTF is a purge block? Does it blow argon or what?
Yes - it serves two functions. 1. A pathway for shielding gas to evacuate the air from the back side of the part and 2. it's a heat sink to keep warping at bay.
Nice tip of the hat to S.C.M. and B.O.M. 👍😃
Really enjoy your videos, only criticism I have is that your videos don’t come out often enough. 😉😂
Thanks - doing the best I can to get out and get to work!
Cant click on the teespring link
throttle-stop-garage.creator-spring.com
Very nice, but a little disappointed with the lack of funk music. But the tea was a good touch.
LOL - maybe in the next episode we'll get the funk out.
I wish I was your neighbor 💀 I have some stuff to weld 😂😂
My neighbours only show up once in a while.
@@ThrottleStopGarage I’m jealous, I would love to get some lessons
Level making noise? I wonder who is he referring to...
BOM
LOL. Pretty obvious.