Logan For Liberty to be on honest L for L, it was probably a stupid comment. Yes his voice is a disaster, but it’s his arguments that really grind at me.
@@joelkeane3160 So he is just some rich, priviledged, anglo saxon liberal that has no need for "tribalism" because he lives in a comfortable urban setting with a mass of cheap labor to pamper him. I am also including the the vast labor force in underdeveloped countries that also makes his comfortable middle class liberal lifestyle possible. Wow I am thoroughly enjoying how the lower class anglo saxons(LCASs) are revolting against these rich anglo saxon liberals. Its going to be really great once these LCASs start to realize the slimy merchant that Trump and his group are as well.
Jason Muniz I think what you’re saying is pretty much true man. The question for me is how he got these ideas, who he got them from and why he still believes them? I read Foucault back in the day and I kinda enjoyed him. But it seems incredible to me that a supposedly intelligent person could take these post modern ideas and apply them to complicated questions concerning biology, gender, sex etc. What’s more bizarre is that he thinks the answers to these complicated questions can be found in that particular, very short lived, globally insignificant movement in “philosophy”....
Russel doesn't like the way categories have been used / are used by bigots. But his solution is to deny the categories exist, rather than argue that they are misused.
@@Robmancan1987 Haha that would be ridiculous! Probably something like this: Sketch Artist: "Was it a man or a woman?" Thaddeus: "Well you see there is no way for me to know that based on appearance" SA: "Ummm, ok, what race were they?" T: "You see thats another thing I can't tell you because they could identify with any race that they want the way they look means nothing" SA: "Ughh, alright so were they dark skinned or light skinned?" T: "I'm sorry sir, that is extremely racist of you to ask me that, are you trying to say that the color of their skin has something to do with them committing a crime? That's an example of systemic racism" SA: "ALL RIGHT ALL RIGHT, geez! Ok, so how tall were they?" T: "I'm sorry I can't tell you that sir because feet and inches, meters and centimeters are a social construct, they don't really exist. I cannot reference them because they are just another construction made by man that have no basis in...... (gets strangled to death by police sketch guy) 2 weeks later: New SA: "So can you describe the suspect that strangled your best friend to death while you watched through the 2 way mirror?" Friend: "Well you see I can't really give a description because I have no way to know what he identified as underneath... New SA: "Oh fuck, not this shit again....""
Russell has a strange way of looking at categories: regardless the topic, he tends to argue that if there are differences between members of a category, if a category changes over time, or if there are outliers that are hard to categorize, then that means the categories are totally arbitrary, useless, and socially constructed.
No, he argues that there are glaring contradiction in the categorizations of humans by race. This together with its historically provable misuse should make us question whether we should uphold it. And he is right. 2 simple questions which might underline his argument This person z which you regard as of race x, do you know his DNA and its historical roots? This person y which has genetic roots of a, b and g, which race are you categorizing y as? Edit: The result of this argument would be summarized by 'The biological factor, as we currently know it, on its own is not a good indicator of race. What thereof is race?'
@@Elda.Handles this whole segment started by Joe bringing up the crazy bitch who's white, that's changing her entire physical look to look black...and was claiming to be black....he went on this wild ass tangent lol
@@Elda.Handles race is just the category or categories of people that evolved separately from each other. Just because you’re mixed doesn’t make race a fiction is joes argument
@@lucianocastillo694 There is truth in both of their arguments. Everything, including accumulated bodies of knowledge, are Human constructs. Humans by nature of their consciousness or biological primers identify others based on a variety of factors, therefore humankind created mental categories to ease the memorization of patterns, this is both valuable as well as potentially dangerous. Discussing the validity of a construct and its repercussions in reality without an acknowledgement of the origin of it, makes a set of distortions possible, which could potentially undermine the correlation a constructs values have with reality. One question thereof becomes, "how truthful and accurate are the patterns in correlation to human and humankind's reality?" As well as "what values or purposes did the formation of it have?"
@@Elda.Handles The only dangers or distortions you talk about are mental. People think others should act in certain ways in correlation to their look/race. That’s where the patters people make of individual races might become dangerous or a problem. But you also can’t say race should be dismissed just on this fact. Race is not just a pattern made up by humans from a face or body, it’s 100% the dna similarities in people.
And this is why people don’t take progressive ideas seriously. He should focus on culture not biology as an explanation for role and experiencial differences. It’s the reasons why and not the excuse for racism.
Countries in Horn of Africa such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Djibouti, Somaliland and Eritrea do not count as black race. Their Hamite people belong to Caucasian race, just like Egyptians, Sudan and Berber of North Africa. We are not BLACK or WHITE, but as Horn Africans
I agree I'm somali,and I've never identified as a black person,my skin is darker than most African Americans. Black is just a colour put on us by whites.
I get what he's saying, but I think he's not making sense. He is sort of dancing around the issue. I get his point that "Race" as we define is it a social construct in that we define groups of "sort of similar" people into easily identifiable groups, but I think it's disingenuous to say there isn't genetic differences between groups of people- "whiteness" for example is insanely broad, spanning from the British Isle to the Russian wilderness, south to Iran and is, in many cases, a fairly pointless exercise in describing someone due to it being nonspecific. His complaint isn't that we're not being specific enough about describing people and their physical characteristic but that we shouldn't look at the differences between the 'races' or groupings at all, even if it is for benefit.
More than anger, I think he's being irrational. He makes claims several times that "So what?" and "People in the past used these differences poorly, etc" and I think his statements come from fear. He is afraid that we may find some kind of horrible smoking gun and accidentally waddle into something akin to eugenics. I think anybody who discusses this topic must walk a fine line between saying "It may be correct that certain groups of people may be inclined to having a higher IQ (mathematical reasoning or whatever damn metric you want to define) and that one race of people is superior because of that intellect. There is a core problem with his belief, and to the contrary to what he claimed, I believe his belief and claims about 'races' is very unscientific as he'd rather not categorize anybody at all and outwardly refuses to categorically define anybody- or frankly admit that these differences exist at all. As I said before, I believe that 'race' is, in a very technical sense a social construct (as we have decided which race belongs to which) but he takes things one step further and seems to imply that all genetic differences are socially constructed or attempting to study differences between peoples or groups is problematic. I, too, prefer to be specific "Italian" rather than "White" and maybe, "Roman" or "Venetian" where you can. His outright refusal to answer these questions that Rogan gave him was confusing to listen to. He does admit that, for example, Asians (I believe specifically "Chinese" was mentioned) are shorter than other 'races' but he doesn't go so far as to quantify why even saying something like that makes him uncomfortable. Again, there are many Chinese men who are 6 foot-plus but the majority are not- and to deny these realities simply for the sake of reducing the 'possible' harm that may come from irrational racist people is a stupid line of thinking. I think I would have a similar disagreement with him about Sam Harris's position, I think he does not understand the nuance that Sam holds on these topics and the broad understanding he has. Sam is not a racist, and he's not a 'racial realist' (which is more or less a thinly veiled shorthand for 'white supremacist' ) but rather he's a 'realist-realist' and he generally looks for facts and what is factual, even if it does not make everyone happy. Sam's positions, I believe, tend to be based on truth, facts and what is reality.
His issue is he is angry, not about discrimination, but that other academics are getting told they are right when IN FACT HE IS MORE RIGHT THAN THEM ALL!!!!!!! YEAH BUDDY, THATS RIGHT, I KNOW THE TRUTH AND YOU ARE ALL ASSHOLES!!! That is what he is angry about.He wants to be the superior academic and he is angry that he hasn't had the same attention for his perspective than others have gained.
Agreed. I see where he's coming from, and maybe because I've been through that train of thought myself. I think this is a prime example of what Peterson would describe as "empathetic intellectuals" (paraphrasing). It SEEMS rational from that frame of mind when you are trying not to step on anyone's toes, and not offend anyone, or make them examine who and/or what they are, but it's just simply not true. I truly feel we are struggling (as a collective) to grapple with what we are, and trauma from past events have given us almost this social neurosis where we are in denial of a vast portion of that being. Differences are viewed as "inequalities" and thus as tyranny. This desire for equal outcome is just mindbogglingly debilitating. Differences are inequalities, sure, but they only become SOCIAL inequalities when someone decides our differences make us inferior or superior to one another. Ignoring differences in human beings is just a denial of a most fundamental truth, in my opinion.
Doesn't this entire video come down to "There is no difference, well technically there is a scientific difference..but if we acknowledge differences its racist"
Kyledmw this guy articulated himself poorly Imo. he should have pointed out that the differences (physical and cultural) that we see are considered to be ethnic and not racial. the concept of race originated with ideas of racial purity. for example, ideas like, we don't all stem from a common ancestor, instead we come from three different sources, hence the categories of Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid. It also tries to assign specific characteristic to each one such as IQ differences, a concept which has long been disproven by the fact that all races achieve similar levels of attainment when class is taken into account. Race is such a confused term, that's the real problem. What it means in the real world is not what it means in the academic world.
"O mankind, We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into races and tribes, so that you may identify one another. Surely the noblest of you, in Allah’s sight, is the one who is most pious of you. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware". Quran 49:13
@@emanjirdeh4054 Exactly! I’ve looked it up and it doesn’t say races since we all descend from Adam and Hawa (Eve). There’s only ONE race and that’s the Human Race. Everything else is just tribes and ethnicities which most countries are named after. Race based on a color is a social construct invented by Europeans in 20th century.
What this guy wants to say in short is: It is difficult to define people by race because some people may fit into many categories. There is no a clear cut line between races. One person can look black and asian at the same time, what is he an African or Asian?
No. He’s arguing there is no utility in social constructs. But he’s sitting their clothed and not pissing his pants. All social constructs. His argument is there is there is no race and no utility to it, however would love a conversation how he would interstate and argue against BLM for example.
@@FromTheFens219 one can listen to a different opinion if it makes sense and its based on logic and reasoning, but Russell's "beliefs" go in the same category as the flat earthers and pizza gate morons
@@molsy1768 hes not very good at explaining himself but what he says is 100% true, race is indeed just a social construct, human beings are infinitly diversed and determining “races” by pigmjntation is insane
All dogs come from wolves so all dogs are the same. Chihuahuas and great danes are the same animal, so don't try to define their differences. If you have a dog you must describe all of it's characteristics to not be a dog racist. Calling your dog a Labrador is just confining it to societal norms.
I think what this guy is trying to say is that race is just a way to categorize the way people look. The problem is that that is the only thing you can attribute race to. The idea that certain people that look one way are similar in other ways is only true because we divided ourselfs like that, and people that live together will socially become more like each other. However this has nothing to do with race rather because they lived and interacted with each other and thus became similar. This guy is arguing that continuing to see race as something other than appearance makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. If nobody cared, other similarities between races other than appearance would no longer be a thing.
By the end of this Thad realizes that he has failed to convince Joe of any of the nonsense he believes and settles on getting Joe to agree that treating people poorly is wrong. Nice work.
Or that characteristics such as intelligence and character are not affected by race, meaning all the *meaningful* aspects of humanity are not affected by race. Things apart from athletic ability, hair texture or vision. Seems like they could just agree on that and agree that and there isn't really anything to be worked up about on either side.
Yea. His argument is people don’t have 10 fingers because some people are born with more or less. “Is someone still a ‘human’ if they have 11 fingers?” That’s something stupid he would say. I now feel dumber for having stopped to his level
@@timmeh9461 No, that would still be incorrect. A person's arms don't become legs just because they flipped upside down and started walking on their hands.
A Chihuahua and a Great Dane are the same species (canis lupus) they share 99.9% of their genes. Pretending that there aren't biological differences between the two would be ideological and not factual.
If you’ve ever wondered what the post modern philosophy is, this is the best example I’ve seen. Thaddeus is clearly a staunch post modernist, understands the philosophical tools, and is an example of what happens when post modernism is your only philosophical (something I can’t think of the word). This is the purest example of someone, on video, verbalizing post modern logic. “I’m saying it’s as true as anything else.” But when confronted with modernist logic he completely ignores and even tries to lie without lying. “But you’re saying it’s not real” “no I’m saying it’s a fiction.” That part isn’t postmodern, but it does show is unwillingness to even listen to any other philosophical framework. (Framework! That’s the word I was looking for)
Yes absolutely, and i've seen clips where he flips out on Peterson because 'Peterson just doesn't understand what post modernism is' and i would say he definitely nailed it in this guy.
@@bbquew2875 there are two responses: 1. I’m referring to his language and logic, first and foremost 2. At best that argument can be made semantically. “Breed” would sound extremely offensive but it’s as true of humans as it is dogs. “Tribe” might be a good replacement were it not already in use to describe social groups as opposed to strictly genetic groups. But that’s it what he’s saying, is it?
There was a video of an African tribe seeing a white person for the first time. They never even contemplated skin color could look different. All the tribal people were touching the white man's skin and surrounding him with awe and wonder. This is an example that even when all the "social constructs" of race are completely removed from the equations. We are aware of physical differences in others. The visual differences are always there regardless. His argument is that Our systems of categorization that we use to communicate, navigate, and attempt to make sense of a chaotic world. Are meaningless inventions of the human mind. And they don't actually exist. Of course, he says that classification categories are meaningless with human beings. Trust me this type of thinking leads you down a bottomless pit of despair and resentment. Make no mistake about it Thaddeus has no concern with being genuine or right. Postmodernism rejects concepts like right, wrong, good, evil, truth, and lies as you guessed it, categories of subjective classification that aren't real. There is no end to deconstruction, Postmodernism keeps destroying it until it eventually devours itself. It is the snake that eats itself, the Ouroboros in mythology.
This dude struggles really hard with saying “I don’t want race to be what defines people”. It’s not too hard, but because of his infallible belief of himself, he sounds like a goof ball.
Exactly. And the problem arises when a lot of the people he is discussing from different parts of the world or even just groups more locally in the USA, WANT to define themselves by some of the characteristics he decries. It’s like, my dude… you want to get rid of categorization, but it’s an innate human trait.
Literally everything he says is forced. Like he can sit there with a straight face and say there aren't any clear differences between an Asian person and a black person
He's right though. There are people darker than most black people in America that think they are white. There are people lighter than actual Europeans in American that call themselves black. And when they go and take these 'tests' or do anything that involves them stating their race, they will label themselves that. Zoe Saldana went to DR had an interview where she told the radio guy there that she was black, they were really shocked to learn this, she had to emphasize that she was black...in America, she's black, if she goes anywhere in Latin America, she's not. When your race can change based on which country you go to, then it's a social construct.
Quiksandd9 the issue is the conflation between race and ethnicity. Ie. The conflation between physical vs behavioral and cultural differences. The distinction to be made for example is not comparing Asians to Africans , but to compare someone from Haiti from someone from Malawi. The only similarity that can be made is their skin color. in this day and age, race has been made into a social construct, while ethnicity is the true social construct in which you can accurately identify behavioral and social patterns among groups of individuals.
When someone craves negativity through argument. Russell’s life must really be terrible. This is the guy at a social gathering everyone tries to avoid.
@@eastafrica7925 I guess im somali then but its easy to not recognize me as one considering my mothers strong genes that made me lightskin with straight hair. Ive been to Mogadishu with my father tho was a wonderful trip going to the Lido (hope i remember the Name right) was one of the Best experiences in my life
Death Itself I have seen a lot of half Somali and nothing to do with your mother genes, do have facial structure of your father? Does your father have curly hair? People always think Somalis have weak genes but is not since Somalis facial structure is unique and their curls hair makes mixed Somalis absolutely beautiful
He could have said: 'Any attempt at classification, generalization or grouping leads to tribalism, and is therefore bad'. This tells us more about his psychology than anyone else's.
23 and me is updating their service. You don't even have to send in a saliva sample - they just send you a report that reads, "race is socially constructed". It really helps save money on genetic testing.
What Peterson said is that gender identity is biologically determined. He said that because 99.7% of people have a gender identity that is congruent with their sex. That's a pretty fucking solid conclusion to make. It's biology though, so there are exceptions, and to say if any exception breaks the rule, we have to throw out the rule entirely, is nonsense. There is basically nothing in biology that doesn't have exceptions. Humans for example are bipedal. Does that mean that a person born missing a limb isn't human? Of course not, but humans are nonetheless a bipedal species, even if there are people born missing a limb. This guy is almost pathologically obsessed with challenging the use of categorization regardless of whether it's worthwhile. We should question categories, but that doesn't mean they serve no purpose or that any category that has any exception should just be tossed out entirely. That's totally nonsensical.
This guy, and "woke" people like him, when you really listen to them talk, turn out to be actually insidiously more bigoted, sexist and racist from the way they speak and generalise people in their pursuit to prove their nonsensical claims about all people being same.
In Africa they can discriminate by bone structure nose shape and skin tone, race is socially created but... BUT without race to distinguish, we as humans would only find another thing we didn't like about each other and start the whole game again...
This guy says "I'm tryin to debate your strongest argument" when the strongest argument was Canada..the comment he brushed off...find me a Canadian in a line of ppl..you can't..we are so diverse..he takes it to the most basic comment of Asians all look alike lol
I love how he says that 100 years is not a long time ago, and joe says it’s a long time in how we address it today. As in our ability or lack of ability to perceive it over a period of time in fact creates reality. Because our perception defines and limits our understanding of it that makes it a social construct. The moon was a God until we were able to reach out and land on it. That doesn’t mean it was a God when our ancestors believed it to be. Perception and belief are not reality even if they serve your social benefit.
@@naseeha450 labeling a group of people without much in common only based on one aspect of their looks as a whole race is wrong. That's what I endorse.
Countries in Horn of Africa such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Djibouti, Somaliland and Eritrea do not count as black race. Their Hamite people belong to Caucasian race, just like Egyptians, Sudan and Berber of North Africa. We are not BLACK or WHITE, but as Horn Africans
@@abdirahmanmumin2609 I’m Ethiopian so it’s easier for me… but mostly has to do with our features like our eyes shape or nose, skin color and hair texture. If you been around horners you can tell the difference
You're all ignorant. Africans or rest of Africans don't look the same, each region has a common average look & that's about it. The Horners definitely look different from West Africans, but they're Phenotypically closer to the saharan west Africans like the Fula than they're to North Africans, west Africans look different from south Africans but are Phenotypically closer to Central African southern Africans than they are to North Africans. In the end even though the diversity in appearance between Africans is evident they're definitely much closer together with the only exception being north Africans. The Horn despite how much some people try to alienate them from other Africans will never be looked at with the same different lense as the North Africans.
Depending on the type linguistic rabbits you want to pull from your hat, you can call just about anything a man-made construct. The idea of a "species" isn't something that inherently exists within the universe; and like race, it's lines are not clearly defined; there is constant debate among scientists as to whether or not certain genetic differences are great enough to consider two different organisms as pertaining to two different species. Nonetheless, the vagaries and occassional slipperiness of a word like species, doesn't make it a frivolous construct thunk up by homo sapiens. Trying to rip useful words out of the human language in attempt to dispose of the baggage attached to them is a completely childish solution to racism, as attempting to abolish the word "kill" is a completely childish attempt to decrease murder rate. Unfortunately, this isn't even the looniest and most psuedointellectual ramblings I've heard Russel indulge in.
I remember reading Jerry Coyne's "Why Evolution is True" and he states much the same, where mice are divided into things as simple as coat color because it provides a useful distinction, despite there being little to no genetic difference between them. With humans, anyone not beside themselves with political correctness can see the difference between an Inuit and Sudanese. We can see that environment has shaped certain characteristics--indigenous peoples with monkey-like feet, South Asians who can dive underwater for greater lengths, Africans with sickle cell anemia, etc. Like you said, though, the lines aren't always well-defined, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have utility.
Fascinating conversation. I don't think I agree with everything here, but it's an interesting perspective I haven't heard before. Also, I like being Italian cus of Nana food. That's about it.
Honestly, not once was the term race used correctly. Thadeous, keeps conflating ethnic groups and nationality with race. So egregiously incompetent. I will give them that the % of our genetic makeup that makes us look different i.e. phenotypes is an incredibly small total percentage, and virtually arbitrary when it comes to determining how similar or different we are. Race is most certainly psycho-social construct.
We need these categories to help us understand all different kinds of academics from medicine to history. Example how do we explain which people migrated to where and when without having the categories to explain the differences of the people that traveled and created those civilizations? And using these categories have allowed medicine to progress much faster by isolating which race/gender are more predisposed to certain illnesses.
As a somalian we are little diffrent than the most aftican black people but it doesnt that we are not black , me and the guy from congo are black Same like Danish guy and italian guy are white .
IQ has nothing to do with Race. It's all about discipline and some races have more cultural disciplines instilled into them from very young ages. And some also have better opportunities to be educated than others. If I grew up in China I'm sure I'd be a lot more smarter and disciplined than growing up in Australia
What a menat gymnastics to stay in line :) IQ has everything to do with so called "race" which in a reality is a specie. There are multiple humanoid species on Earth.
I understand his perspective in that we have often utilized racial categorizations as a form of tribalism and as a means to alienate those who we classify as "others". But I think the point here should be that we just shouldn't emphasize race as being so important - not that we should completely eliminate the concept of race. After all, there is some medical utility in knowing ones race (ex. People of African descent are more likely to have sickle cell trait and people from Northern Europe are of higher risk for skin cancer).
but again, thats one problem with race. i'm from africa but im somali so I have significant eurasian admixture. There's almost no sickle cell trait in my country. North Africa are amazigh so similar to arabs, they don't have sickle cell. Your view of africa or the race of africans is based on Bantu/Niger Congo Africa which is mainstream. Maybe that's an issue he's talking about.
Good to see Joe drilling this guy. Thaddeus’ desire to remove our categorisation (fundamental to historical human survival) ironically contradicts his desire to have more categories for transgender athletes to compete at. He has some good points occasionally, but overall he’s all over the place otherwise, all conjecture.
Different races if they did not come into contact with each other for millions of years, would have led to different species. Our timeline on earth as humans have not been long enough and we have not been isolated enough to create that. We share common ancestors with not just humans, but with every living organism on earth and at some point the subtle differences, led to the point where a lion couldn't reproduce with a horse, while it still can with a tiger.
Certain IQ Tests were a bit problematic to me because certain questions could be logically answered in multiple ways, but only one path was the right one
This guy…… 🤦🏻 “Categories bad because people do bad things with them. Let’s get rid of categories”…….. Let’s see how many other thing we can apply this to. Science, government, technology, marriage, etc.
as a Kenyan who is Somali its refreshing to see the two countries used to explain Africa as a race, btw Somalis may look diffrent than other Africans but they are 100 percent African they are classified as Afro-asian
The comments are just nailing this guy right now across several videos and channels. Extremely stuck up individual. I'm glad joe challenged him in a calm yet engaging way.
"It's a fiction it's made up" is where his position isn't sound. Everything we talk about is made up by definition, it's what separates us amongst so much else from other species in our capacity to use language and categorise things. Can other species do this? Yes but they can't do it with such deep analysis and apply labels with meaning. We have to use these terms to simplify definition. I've lived in Asia, and as a British caucasian person I evidently sweat more profusely in the summer than the majority AsianiChinese and Korean people around me in. Now say a crime was committed, and me and a Chinese man ethnically and nationally were taken in as suspects, and the witnesses needs to identify one of us, they aren't going to say it was the guy who sweats more, they will say the white guy. If you had multiple people from African nations in a lineup and they all had dark skin, the witness would then need to break it down to height, hair and multiple other features or nationality if it was easily defined. The defining attributes blend and seperate geographically, but it doesn't stop blanket labels being useful, it entirely depends on the required need for categorisation.
That is true, problem is that he is absolutely correct on the other hand when he says that grouping leads to further divide. Like with this whole IQ nonsense. Linking skin pigmentation to the IQ is insane but people who divide people in to races do think in these terms.
@@nicksutton5579 maybe you do, race is just another social construct that has absolutely no place in 21st century. race can not be defined or measured and has no scientific way of establishing, its poitnless and only leads to division and conflict for no reason what so ever. there may be look at people by their country of origin and culture, but there is absolutely no reason to look at people by the color of their skin as it don't change anything
@@nicksutton5579 it exists because our society decided that it exists biologically there is no such thing as race, every human is infinity different and infinitely identical to one another, so scientifically no race does not exists, It only exists as a social construct, a cultural phenomenon where we decided that people with certain features are certain race,
The whole "race is a social construct" argument is really mischaracterized. (At first I thought people were claiming that there are no biological differences between races, but that's not the case) All that it means is that we assign importance to certain traits and not others. For example, people with detached earlobes or widows peak hairlines are not their own race, yet those things are determined by heredity just like being black or white is.
Jake Sanchez but widows peaks and detached earlobes are interchangeable among race. Skin color has a large tendency not to, neither does facial structure, black people naturally have different hair, racial groups have different penises and breast sizes. Height, bone structure, muscle structure, all of those things play large tendencies for specific groups of people. Race can be used to generalize large groups of people with traits they heavily gravitate towards sharing, if some were not to share certain traits, they would simply be outliers. For example, our understanding of disease has changed over time, we reclassify and treat diseases differently over time, we even treat people differently if they react differently to a disease, is disease then a social construct? No. There is empirically one disease, we as humans simply come to understand it differently over time. Just like there are different races, we as humans come to understand the differences over time, which is why we characterize Jews as an ethnicity and not a race, because you can be any race to be Jewish.
Long Dick Jones I’m not sure if races have different penises sizes and breast sizes. Having larger penises is not a race thing at all. Height and muscle structure is also not a race thing too. People who say that Caucasians are biologically taller is a complete myth. Europeans and other people back in the old days were shorter and modern day humans are a lot taller. There is also a difference when it comes to height between a black Americans and a black person from Africa. Black Americans generally tend to be taller due to nutrition than the average black person in Africa.
@@jonjonboi3701 80% of your height is genetic, 20% is based on diet and enviroment, and height differences do correlate with some race categories. Using a single gene as a race is a false equivalency, races correlate with clusters of gene frequency variants within the overall human genome that break down into major geographic areas, with sub groups and mixed race groups below that.
I'd looooovvvee too hear Thaddeus try explaining what the murder suspect looked like too the Cops. Thaddeus: He was like a ummm a ummm human being 🤣 Cops: Male? Female? Thaddeus: You'd have to ask they/them
Race is both socially and objectively constructed. It is objectively constructed because man saw differences in hair, skin color, eyes, height, sex hormones, facial structures, etc. as they explored different territories.We can not deny that race is more complex than it ever was, in that mixing races makes race itself blurred; this makes us forget that we were once strictly singular. On the other hand, to easily identify with these biological elements, man had to categorize these differences for less confusion-- That is the social construct.
Recognising Race and differences is not racism. I am a somali black man, a chinese man is very different from me and so is a nordic man. I dont know why this man is dancing around this issue.
The problem is that people want to use race as tied to significant genetic differences between human beings almost like we're separate species. When race is more of a shorthand for defining general prevailing phenotypes that are found in various ethnicities. But as they were trying to exhibit with example of the different people in Africa, you can commonly find similar differences even within same mother same father family groups in black people where the children look so different from each other in terms of build, complexion, hair texture, hair color and eye color.
Race is very much biology, I would view race like different breeds. Ultimately all dogs are dogs and can mate with each other but there are inherent biological differences based on genetic markers defined by breed, same goes for humans.
@@Hawa434 yes I agree. Humans share 99.99999 % genetics with each other but a very small percentage makes a difference. There’s a reason why Caucasians are more prone to cystic fibrosis or why Africans are more prone to sickle cell disease. Ethno bio markers are an actual thing.
@@pmodi1104 yes u r right but a horn African isn’t prone to sickle cells just cus they r black, genetically speaking they have more in common with non black counterparts. Ethnicity is what should be used to distinguish ppl not race. Middle Eastern r considered white by American standard, that makes no sense.
@@Hawa434 so you say that for example some Russian guys have more in common with Africans than those Africans with other Africans? Doesn’t sound too scientific….
"The nordic were the one that made civilisation...the mediterraneans were just peasants"...I don't if this guy made up this crap or someone was really saying it, but anyway what civilisation did the nordics made exactly? and weren't the mediterraneans the one who actually enslaved the nordics at some point? and actually built the western civilisation and the foundations on which most of the world nowadays stands?
I feel like dude has got good intentions but is so hung up on definitions it’s nuts 🔩 just use the words given to let people know how you feel about this stuff and they’ll understand and not hate so much
"But I want to be a deep thinker and this makes me feel open minded" Let's build a case on empty assertions, Straw Man, and Slippery Slope argument. But then you believe in IQ as a reliable quantifier of intelligence???? If this is the general case against the existence of races then I have no problem not going along with it.
![[MPD직캠] 베이비몬스터 치키타 직캠 4K 'LIKE THAT' (BABYMONSTER CHIQUITA FanCam) | @MCOUNTDOWN_2024.6.13](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h99J4vWm7Ew/mqdefault.jpg)
The moment this guy said Rachel Dolanzel is correct, nothing out of his mouth should be taken into account
There’s no such thing as a ‘“Somalian” it’s SOMALI People*
THANK YOU🙌🏿
Was looking for someone saying it THANK YOU!!
@@moodyabdi3972 hahaha got u👍🏿
Somalian no Somalis yeah
Somali, the ethnicity
Somalian, a citizen of 🇸🇴
This guy sounds like he's from Portland.
Jacoby McKinney yeah true. He’s got that fucked up hipster inflection to phrases like: “you know”; “ahhh like”; “well, maybe”....
@@joelkeane3160 As someone born in Portland, these people are just a loud majority.
Logan For Liberty to be on honest L for L, it was probably a stupid comment. Yes his voice is a disaster, but it’s his arguments that really grind at me.
@@joelkeane3160 So he is just some rich, priviledged, anglo saxon liberal that has no need for "tribalism" because he lives in a comfortable urban setting with a mass of cheap labor to pamper him. I am also including the the vast labor force in underdeveloped countries that also makes his comfortable middle class liberal lifestyle possible.
Wow I am thoroughly enjoying how the lower class anglo saxons(LCASs) are revolting against these rich anglo saxon liberals. Its going to be really great once these LCASs start to realize the slimy merchant that Trump and his group are as well.
Jason Muniz I think what you’re saying is pretty much true man. The question for me is how he got these ideas, who he got them from and why he still believes them? I read Foucault back in the day and I kinda enjoyed him. But it seems incredible to me that a supposedly intelligent person could take these post modern ideas and apply them to complicated questions concerning biology, gender, sex etc. What’s more bizarre is that he thinks the answers to these complicated questions can be found in that particular, very short lived, globally insignificant movement in “philosophy”....
Russel doesn't like the way categories have been used / are used by bigots. But his solution is to deny the categories exist, rather than argue that they are misused.
This comment is underrated.
This
I don’t think he is saying that they don’t exist it’s more that th y don’t have any real basis and are arbitrary.
@@silq935 if the categories don't have basis and they are arbitrary, then their constructions and therefore don't exist, which is clearly bullshit
Why should someone argue that something is misused, when it should clearly not even exist in the first place?
This dude just wants a war on the dictionary lol. He makes his life way more complicated than it should be
The reason life is not as complicated is because we categorize everything. His argument is that categorizing people leads to more harm than good.
@@jackfrane5699 if the world operated even half as much as this guy wants, no one would know what the fuck is going on from one minute to another.
@Aaron Rios he would disagree 😂
Amen…he said a lot to say nothing
I don't believe in calling it a dictionary. You should just call it a book that contains the definitions of words and leave it at that.
"The worst type of inequality is trying to make unequal things equal" -Aristotle
Can you imagine this guy describing a suspect to the police sketch artist? 😂🤣
@@Robmancan1987 Haha that would be ridiculous! Probably something like this:
Sketch Artist: "Was it a man or a woman?"
Thaddeus: "Well you see there is no way for me to know that based on appearance"
SA: "Ummm, ok, what race were they?"
T: "You see thats another thing I can't tell you because they could identify with any race that they want the way they look means nothing"
SA: "Ughh, alright so were they dark skinned or light skinned?"
T: "I'm sorry sir, that is extremely racist of you to ask me that, are you trying to say that the color of their skin has something to do with them committing a crime? That's an example of systemic racism"
SA: "ALL RIGHT ALL RIGHT, geez! Ok, so how tall were they?"
T: "I'm sorry I can't tell you that sir because feet and inches, meters and centimeters are a social construct, they don't really exist. I cannot reference them because they are just another construction made by man that have no basis in...... (gets strangled to death by police sketch guy)
2 weeks later:
New SA: "So can you describe the suspect that strangled your best friend to death while you watched through the 2 way mirror?"
Friend: "Well you see I can't really give a description because I have no way to know what he identified as underneath...
New SA: "Oh fuck, not this shit again....""
Holy smokes, I like that way of thinking 🙋🏻
Your name is Thaddeus so you need to just stop talking
@@AloeHahh I’m sure this already happened in a police station somewhere in California… or New York 😂
Russell has a strange way of looking at categories: regardless the topic, he tends to argue that if there are differences between members of a category, if a category changes over time, or if there are outliers that are hard to categorize, then that means the categories are totally arbitrary, useless, and socially constructed.
No, he argues that there are glaring contradiction in the categorizations of humans by race.
This together with its historically provable misuse should make us question whether we should uphold it.
And he is right.
2 simple questions which might underline his argument
This person z which you regard as of race x, do you know his DNA and its historical roots?
This person y which has genetic roots of a, b and g, which race are you categorizing y as?
Edit: The result of this argument would be summarized by 'The biological factor, as we currently know it, on its own is not a good indicator of race. What thereof is race?'
@@Elda.Handles this whole segment started by Joe bringing up the crazy bitch who's white, that's changing her entire physical look to look black...and was claiming to be black....he went on this wild ass tangent lol
@@Elda.Handles race is just the category or categories of people that evolved separately from each other. Just because you’re mixed doesn’t make race a fiction is joes argument
@@lucianocastillo694 There is truth in both of their arguments.
Everything, including accumulated bodies of knowledge, are Human constructs. Humans by nature of their consciousness or biological primers identify others based on a variety of factors, therefore humankind created mental categories to ease the memorization of patterns, this is both valuable as well as potentially dangerous.
Discussing the validity of a construct and its repercussions in reality without an acknowledgement of the origin of it, makes a set of distortions possible, which could potentially undermine the correlation a constructs values have with reality.
One question thereof becomes, "how truthful and accurate are the patterns in correlation to human and humankind's reality?"
As well as "what values or purposes did the formation of it have?"
@@Elda.Handles The only dangers or distortions you talk about are mental. People think others should act in certain ways in correlation to their look/race. That’s where the patters people make of individual races might become dangerous or a problem. But you also can’t say race should be dismissed just on this fact. Race is not just a pattern made up by humans from a face or body, it’s 100% the dna similarities in people.
He wants nuance but his brain has no capacity for it.
Projection
This guy is the Mental Gymnastics world champion.
its called "philosophy". not sure if uv heard of it
Would love to see him arguing with BLM activists. Well, your police brutality is a construct.
In some circles I believe that's code for presumptuous charlatan
And this is why people don’t take progressive ideas seriously. He should focus on culture not biology as an explanation for role and experiencial differences. It’s the reasons why and not the excuse for racism.
This guy makes my head hurt following his logic🤯
It’s Somali not Somalian😂
Somalia ha noolaato🇸🇴💪🏽
People he put jareers that claim us on them place
Nabad iyo Nolol
@@dreamdoll8700 i am happy to see somali girl who is not lost in the black bulshit.
Most of internet halimos think they are black
@@shacabweynaha801 why aren’t we black?
Cdaka iskailali
I’m only here for Somali topic this man is correct assf we Somali and we definitely don’t believe in race we are or own
We? Who’s we?
Countries in Horn of Africa such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Djibouti, Somaliland and Eritrea do not count as black race. Their Hamite people belong to Caucasian race, just like Egyptians, Sudan and Berber of North Africa. We are not BLACK or WHITE, but as Horn Africans
I agree I'm somali,and I've never identified as a black person,my skin is darker than most African Americans. Black is just a colour put on us by whites.
@@kopend8638 Holy shit at the irony of your comment, its hilarious to me lol
@@mohamedraz5878 Somalia is only the Horn of AFrica but I see you uneducated
This guy is the perfect example of someone you can train being humble on.
I get what he's saying, but I think he's not making sense. He is sort of dancing around the issue. I get his point that "Race" as we define is it a social construct in that we define groups of "sort of similar" people into easily identifiable groups, but I think it's disingenuous to say there isn't genetic differences between groups of people- "whiteness" for example is insanely broad, spanning from the British Isle to the Russian wilderness, south to Iran and is, in many cases, a fairly pointless exercise in describing someone due to it being nonspecific. His complaint isn't that we're not being specific enough about describing people and their physical characteristic but that we shouldn't look at the differences between the 'races' or groupings at all, even if it is for benefit.
Very good summary. You can see the anger pooring out of him too, he is not being rational here.
More than anger, I think he's being irrational. He makes claims several times that "So what?" and "People in the past used these differences poorly, etc" and I think his statements come from fear. He is afraid that we may find some kind of horrible smoking gun and accidentally waddle into something akin to eugenics. I think anybody who discusses this topic must walk a fine line between saying "It may be correct that certain groups of people may be inclined to having a higher IQ (mathematical reasoning or whatever damn metric you want to define) and that one race of people is superior because of that intellect. There is a core problem with his belief, and to the contrary to what he claimed, I believe his belief and claims about 'races' is very unscientific as he'd rather not categorize anybody at all and outwardly refuses to categorically define anybody- or frankly admit that these differences exist at all. As I said before, I believe that 'race' is, in a very technical sense a social construct (as we have decided which race belongs to which) but he takes things one step further and seems to imply that all genetic differences are socially constructed or attempting to study differences between peoples or groups is problematic. I, too, prefer to be specific "Italian" rather than "White" and maybe, "Roman" or "Venetian" where you can.
His outright refusal to answer these questions that Rogan gave him was confusing to listen to. He does admit that, for example, Asians (I believe specifically "Chinese" was mentioned) are shorter than other 'races' but he doesn't go so far as to quantify why even saying something like that makes him uncomfortable. Again, there are many Chinese men who are 6 foot-plus but the majority are not- and to deny these realities simply for the sake of reducing the 'possible' harm that may come from irrational racist people is a stupid line of thinking. I think I would have a similar disagreement with him about Sam Harris's position, I think he does not understand the nuance that Sam holds on these topics and the broad understanding he has. Sam is not a racist, and he's not a 'racial realist' (which is more or less a thinly veiled shorthand for 'white supremacist' ) but rather he's a 'realist-realist' and he generally looks for facts and what is factual, even if it does not make everyone happy. Sam's positions, I believe, tend to be based on truth, facts and what is reality.
OhSlowpoke poop
His issue is he is angry, not about discrimination, but that other academics are getting told they are right when IN FACT HE IS MORE RIGHT THAN THEM ALL!!!!!!! YEAH BUDDY, THATS RIGHT, I KNOW THE TRUTH AND YOU ARE ALL ASSHOLES!!! That is what he is angry about.He wants to be the superior academic and he is angry that he hasn't had the same attention for his perspective than others have gained.
Agreed. I see where he's coming from, and maybe because I've been through that train of thought myself. I think this is a prime example of what Peterson would describe as "empathetic intellectuals" (paraphrasing). It SEEMS rational from that frame of mind when you are trying not to step on anyone's toes, and not offend anyone, or make them examine who and/or what they are, but it's just simply not true.
I truly feel we are struggling (as a collective) to grapple with what we are, and trauma from past events have given us almost this social neurosis where we are in denial of a vast portion of that being. Differences are viewed as "inequalities" and thus as tyranny. This desire for equal outcome is just mindbogglingly debilitating. Differences are inequalities, sure, but they only become SOCIAL inequalities when someone decides our differences make us inferior or superior to one another. Ignoring differences in human beings is just a denial of a most fundamental truth, in my opinion.
5:00 According to that logic humans are exactly the same as apes because we share ancestors.
Why stop there? We are all the same as single celled organisms as well!
Not everyone believes we come from apes, that is also a made up thing. We come from Adam and he was created by God.
He's a great example of how using big words and overly complicating your sentences doesn't make you smart.
I think getting a PhD from Columbia makes you smart. No thanks I'll listen to the man with credentials then some loser keyboard troll thanks.
Oh my god, this hurts.
How did Joe sit through this for hours ? And did he say he's been on before ?
OMG, Joe deserves a medal of valour for bravery
Don't worry you're still white, no 1 is taking that away
Joe using Kenyans as an example when comparing Chinese and Africans hurt my 🧠.
Kenyans aren't African? @@Farhan917
Doesn't this entire video come down to "There is no difference, well technically there is a scientific difference..but if we acknowledge differences its racist"
Kyledmw this guy articulated himself poorly Imo. he should have pointed out that the differences (physical and cultural) that we see are considered to be ethnic and not racial. the concept of race originated with ideas of racial purity. for example, ideas like, we don't all stem from a common ancestor, instead we come from three different sources, hence the categories of Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid. It also tries to assign specific characteristic to each one such as IQ differences, a concept which has long been disproven by the fact that all races achieve similar levels of attainment when class is taken into account. Race is such a confused term, that's the real problem. What it means in the real world is not what it means in the academic world.
Justlooking Interesting, thanks for the insight!
Kyledmw if you are really interested, read the History of White People by Neil Irvin Painter
doesnt seem like he understands the difference between race and culture....
"O mankind, We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into races and tribes, so that you may identify one another. Surely the noblest of you, in Allah’s sight, is the one who is most pious of you. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware". Quran 49:13
This is a wrong translation. شعوب translates to nations or people and never to race. Race translates to عرق in arabic
Race is a wrong translation bro...the right word is nation.
@@emanjirdeh4054 Exactly! I’ve looked it up and it doesn’t say races since we all descend from Adam and Hawa (Eve). There’s only ONE race and that’s the Human Race. Everything else is just tribes and ethnicities which most countries are named after. Race based on a color is a social construct invented by Europeans in 20th century.
100%agreed with you 👏🏽👏🏽♥️
@@thinkbeforeyoutype7106 hit the nail on the head there
What this guy wants to say in short is: It is difficult to define people by race because some people may fit into many categories. There is no a clear cut line between races. One person can look black and asian at the same time, what is he an African or Asian?
No. He’s arguing there is no utility in social constructs. But he’s sitting their clothed and not pissing his pants. All social constructs. His argument is there is there is no race and no utility to it, however would love a conversation how he would interstate and argue against BLM for example.
Holy crap 3 minutes in and I'm exhausted. Props to Joe for withstanding this. Glad I skipped listening to the full episode.
Yeah, the guy is pretty lame
Don't like listening to different opinions? I think Russell explained his position very well.
@@FromTheFens219 one can listen to a different opinion if it makes sense and its based on logic and reasoning, but Russell's "beliefs" go in the same category as the flat earthers and pizza gate morons
😄
@@molsy1768 hes not very good at explaining himself but what he says is 100% true, race is indeed just a social construct, human beings are infinitly diversed and determining “races” by pigmjntation is insane
All dogs come from wolves so all dogs are the same. Chihuahuas and great danes are the same animal, so don't try to define their differences. If you have a dog you must describe all of it's characteristics to not be a dog racist. Calling your dog a Labrador is just confining it to societal norms.
That’s not what he is saying lol. You clearly missed the point.
Dogs don't come from wolves knock it off with your selective breeding theory
I think what this guy is trying to say is that race is just a way to categorize the way people look. The problem is that that is the only thing you can attribute race to. The idea that certain people that look one way are similar in other ways is only true because we divided ourselfs like that, and people that live together will socially become more like each other. However this has nothing to do with race rather because they lived and interacted with each other and thus became similar. This guy is arguing that continuing to see race as something other than appearance makes it a self fulfilling prophecy. If nobody cared, other similarities between races other than appearance would no longer be a thing.
Everyone remember, this man is teaching our kids
Yoo where was he in 2020. Coming too hot
😒
Totally agree, this guy is all over the place
Hahahahah
Seriously??? This is insane that’s child abuse
I feel sorry for Joe suffering through this torture. Thaddeus is straight up crazy. He can't really be a teaching people.
He's not wrong.
@@AngrySilence dude said you can be trans racial HAHAHA of course he’s wrong!!
@@AngrySilence we can tell your ethnicity and race by DNA blood tests. He's insanely wrong and ANTI DNA lmao
Thaddeus might actually be the most delusional guy ive heard on Joe Rogan in a while, damn how did i miss this episode years ago
Everytime I stumble on this video I wish Joe used his taekwondo kicks on him for practice
@@mosaabtwice3999 yeah bc violence never happens in the eastern world..1d1ot
Russell is a perfect example of someone who cares about feelings and not facts
How many races are there?
@@skp8748 white, black, asian, native/indigenous, hispanic/latino . so five races
@@titomister10there no such thing as race
@@warfaali how?
@@titomister10 its a social construct not a fact of biology. there is no physical trait that defines "race"
By the end of this Thad realizes that he has failed to convince Joe of any of the nonsense he believes and settles on getting Joe to agree that treating people poorly is wrong. Nice work.
Can you imagine this guy describing a suspect to the police sketch artist? 😂🤣
Or that characteristics such as intelligence and character are not affected by race, meaning all the *meaningful* aspects of humanity are not affected by race. Things apart from athletic ability, hair texture or vision. Seems like they could just agree on that and agree that and there isn't really anything to be worked up about on either side.
He's the type of person who would insist that a dog has 5 legs if we started calling its tail a leg.
Facts
Yea. His argument is people don’t have 10 fingers because some people are born with more or less. “Is someone still a ‘human’ if they have 11 fingers?” That’s something stupid he would say. I now feel dumber for having stopped to his level
@@timmeh9461 No, that would still be incorrect. A person's arms don't become legs just because they flipped upside down and started walking on their hands.
@@dongquixote7138 get back to the slums
A Chihuahua and a Great Dane are the same species (canis lupus) they share 99.9% of their genes. Pretending that there aren't biological differences between the two would be ideological and not factual.
If you’ve ever wondered what the post modern philosophy is, this is the best example I’ve seen. Thaddeus is clearly a staunch post modernist, understands the philosophical tools, and is an example of what happens when post modernism is your only philosophical (something I can’t think of the word). This is the purest example of someone, on video, verbalizing post modern logic. “I’m saying it’s as true as anything else.” But when confronted with modernist logic he completely ignores and even tries to lie without lying. “But you’re saying it’s not real” “no I’m saying it’s a fiction.”
That part isn’t postmodern, but it does show is unwillingness to even listen to any other philosophical framework. (Framework! That’s the word I was looking for)
Good comment. I was thinking framework! Or maybe presupposition
Yes absolutely, and i've seen clips where he flips out on Peterson because 'Peterson just doesn't understand what post modernism is' and i would say he definitely nailed it in this guy.
He is essentially a useless skeptic
its not post-modernism, its just that the science doesn't support race as a biological concept
@@bbquew2875 there are two responses:
1. I’m referring to his language and logic, first and foremost
2. At best that argument can be made semantically. “Breed” would sound extremely offensive but it’s as true of humans as it is dogs. “Tribe” might be a good replacement were it not already in use to describe social groups as opposed to strictly genetic groups. But that’s it what he’s saying, is it?
There was a video of an African tribe seeing a white person for the first time. They never even contemplated skin color could look different. All the tribal people were touching the white man's skin and surrounding him with awe and wonder. This is an example that even when all the "social constructs" of race are completely removed from the equations. We are aware of physical differences in others. The visual differences are always there regardless.
His argument is that Our systems of categorization that we use to communicate, navigate, and attempt to make sense of a chaotic world. Are meaningless inventions of the human mind. And they don't actually exist. Of course, he says that classification categories are meaningless with human beings. Trust me this type of thinking leads you down a bottomless pit of despair and resentment. Make no mistake about it Thaddeus has no concern with being genuine or right. Postmodernism rejects concepts like right, wrong, good, evil, truth, and lies as you guessed it, categories of subjective classification that aren't real. There is no end to deconstruction, Postmodernism keeps destroying it until it eventually devours itself. It is the snake that eats itself, the Ouroboros in mythology.
This dude struggles really hard with saying “I don’t want race to be what defines people”. It’s not too hard, but because of his infallible belief of himself, he sounds like a goof ball.
Exactly. And the problem arises when a lot of the people he is discussing from different parts of the world or even just groups more locally in the USA, WANT to define themselves by some of the characteristics he decries. It’s like, my dude… you want to get rid of categorization, but it’s an innate human trait.
He sounds crazy
He does seem like he thinks a lot of himself
@@rogerandes8 His name is Thaddeus. must be smart
@@onbored9627 lolol
Literally everything he says is forced. Like he can sit there with a straight face and say there aren't any clear differences between an Asian person and a black person
genetically they haven't changed but socially, the way we look at different races it has changed
He's right though.
There are people darker than most black people in America that think they are white. There are people lighter than actual Europeans in American that call themselves black.
And when they go and take these 'tests' or do anything that involves them stating their race, they will label themselves that. Zoe Saldana went to DR had an interview where she told the radio guy there that she was black, they were really shocked to learn this, she had to emphasize that she was black...in America, she's black, if she goes anywhere in Latin America, she's not.
When your race can change based on which country you go to, then it's a social construct.
changes all the time, the 2020 USA census for example is now for the first time going to have hispanic as it's own "racial" category
Quiksandd9 the issue is the conflation between race and ethnicity. Ie. The conflation between physical vs behavioral and cultural differences. The distinction to be made for example is not comparing Asians to Africans , but to compare someone from Haiti from someone from Malawi. The only similarity that can be made is their skin color. in this day and age, race has been made into a social construct, while ethnicity is the true social construct in which you can accurately identify behavioral and social patterns among groups of individuals.
Uhh he didn't do that
When someone craves negativity through argument. Russell’s life must really be terrible. This is the guy at a social gathering everyone tries to avoid.
95% of Somalis refused to identify the colour of their skin. I'm African Somali
true
Is there some kind of study done? Im half somali
Death Itself if your father is Somali then you're Somali but if your mother is Somali you half Somali.
@@eastafrica7925 I guess im somali then but its easy to not recognize me as one considering my mothers strong genes that made me lightskin with straight hair. Ive been to Mogadishu with my father tho was a wonderful trip going to the Lido (hope i remember the Name right) was one of the Best experiences in my life
Death Itself I have seen a lot of half Somali and nothing to do with your mother genes, do have facial structure of your father? Does your father have curly hair? People always think Somalis have weak genes but is not since Somalis facial structure is unique and their curls hair makes mixed Somalis absolutely beautiful
He could have said: 'Any attempt at classification, generalization or grouping leads to tribalism, and is therefore bad'. This tells us more about his psychology than anyone else's.
“People have created categories, and filled those categories with different characteristics” this is the main thing you should have been listening to
23 and me is updating their service. You don't even have to send in a saliva sample - they just send you a report that reads, "race is socially constructed". It really helps save money on genetic testing.
What Peterson said is that gender identity is biologically determined. He said that because 99.7% of people have a gender identity that is congruent with their sex. That's a pretty fucking solid conclusion to make. It's biology though, so there are exceptions, and to say if any exception breaks the rule, we have to throw out the rule entirely, is nonsense. There is basically nothing in biology that doesn't have exceptions. Humans for example are bipedal. Does that mean that a person born missing a limb isn't human? Of course not, but humans are nonetheless a bipedal species, even if there are people born missing a limb.
This guy is almost pathologically obsessed with challenging the use of categorization regardless of whether it's worthwhile. We should question categories, but that doesn't mean they serve no purpose or that any category that has any exception should just be tossed out entirely. That's totally nonsensical.
Somalis content starts from 6:25
This guy, and "woke" people like him, when you really listen to them talk, turn out to be actually insidiously more bigoted, sexist and racist from the way they speak and generalise people in their pursuit to prove their nonsensical claims about all people being same.
Exactly
Yes
Thaddeus Russell's favorite phrase: "Social Construct"
so cringe
In Africa they can discriminate by bone structure nose shape and skin tone, race is socially created but... BUT without race to distinguish, we as humans would only find another thing we didn't like about each other and start the whole game again...
This guy says "I'm tryin to debate your strongest argument" when the strongest argument was Canada..the comment he brushed off...find me a Canadian in a line of ppl..you can't..we are so diverse..he takes it to the most basic comment of Asians all look alike lol
The sky is not blue.
The blue man group finds this offensive and pointless
Your mom is not blue
Barrack Obama is white
this guy is a dingleberry.
So spot on.
Nice to see The dunning Kruger effect is still in full swing
Thanks Joe for the great questions and reason.
I love how he says that 100 years is not a long time ago, and joe says it’s a long time in how we address it today. As in our ability or lack of ability to perceive it over a period of time in fact creates reality. Because our perception defines and limits our understanding of it that makes it a social construct. The moon was a God until we were able to reach out and land on it. That doesn’t mean it was a God when our ancestors believed it to be. Perception and belief are not reality even if they serve your social benefit.
I'm Ethiopian and I endorse this message
Same
And what did you endorse about this whole thing.
@@naseeha450 labeling a group of people without much in common only based on one aspect of their looks as a whole race is wrong. That's what I endorse.
Countries in Horn of Africa such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Djibouti, Somaliland and Eritrea do not count as black race. Their Hamite people belong to Caucasian race, just like Egyptians, Sudan and Berber of North Africa. We are not BLACK or WHITE, but as Horn Africans
@@weshela-in-chief im somali and I also approve, we have more in common genetically with berbers than other africans.
It is true that Somalis and Ethiopian look different than the rest of our African brothers
We have different features but at the end of the day we black
@@Aesae775 How can u explain?
@@abdirahmanmumin2609 I’m Ethiopian so it’s easier for me… but mostly has to do with our features like our eyes shape or nose, skin color and hair texture. If you been around horners you can tell the difference
You're all ignorant. Africans or rest of Africans don't look the same, each region has a common average look & that's about it.
The Horners definitely look different from West Africans, but they're Phenotypically closer to the saharan west Africans like the Fula than they're to North Africans, west Africans look different from south Africans but are Phenotypically closer to Central African southern Africans than they are to North Africans.
In the end even though the diversity in appearance between Africans is evident they're definitely much closer together with the only exception being north Africans.
The Horn despite how much some people try to alienate them from other Africans will never be looked at with the same different lense as the North Africans.
@@Aesae775 no we’re not! You can see yourself as black but don’t speak for us all
Depending on the type linguistic rabbits you want to pull from your hat, you can call just about anything a man-made construct.
The idea of a "species" isn't something that inherently exists within the universe; and like race, it's lines are not clearly defined; there is constant debate among scientists as to whether or not certain genetic differences are great enough to consider two different organisms as pertaining to two different species. Nonetheless, the vagaries and occassional slipperiness of a word like species, doesn't make it a frivolous construct thunk up by homo sapiens.
Trying to rip useful words out of the human language in attempt to dispose of the baggage attached to them is a completely childish solution to racism, as attempting to abolish the word "kill" is a completely childish attempt to decrease murder rate.
Unfortunately, this isn't even the looniest and most psuedointellectual ramblings I've heard Russel indulge in.
I remember reading Jerry Coyne's "Why Evolution is True" and he states much the same, where mice are divided into things as simple as coat color because it provides a useful distinction, despite there being little to no genetic difference between them. With humans, anyone not beside themselves with political correctness can see the difference between an Inuit and Sudanese. We can see that environment has shaped certain characteristics--indigenous peoples with monkey-like feet, South Asians who can dive underwater for greater lengths, Africans with sickle cell anemia, etc. Like you said, though, the lines aren't always well-defined, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have utility.
@@forsetiaxe6784 woh woh woh hold up, I don’t have monkey feet
He's literally right about everything
Underrated comment
Species is defined by ability to create viable offspring but I agree with your point here
This guy is insane!
I am in love with this man.. the man leading the conversation that is.
This guy is the living Jerry Smith from Rick and Morty.
No... Jerry is FAR more intelligent.
He even kind of sounds like Jerry Smith.
Id love to see him argue this with a black person
Fascinating conversation. I don't think I agree with everything here, but it's an interesting perspective I haven't heard before. Also, I like being Italian cus of Nana food. That's about it.
Race is real. Only a moron would deny that
Libya, Morocco, Egypt and Somalia are the most confusing nations when it's come to who you are. So sad😭
he really turned that conversation around towards the end
When things are so intellectual and theoretical it is completely divorced from reality
Honestly, not once was the term race used correctly. Thadeous, keeps conflating ethnic groups and nationality with race. So egregiously incompetent. I will give them that the % of our genetic makeup that makes us look different i.e. phenotypes is an incredibly small total percentage, and virtually arbitrary when it comes to determining how similar or different we are. Race is most certainly psycho-social construct.
How about this? Celebrate our differences, and laugh about them too. We’ll all feel a lot lighter.
he seems to me to be just trying to talk in circles without saying much
that's because you're an idiot.
@@helenageb625 sounds like cult babble. how about you open up a book once in a while
That’s the average liberal there’s never any substance to what the hell they’re saying
We need these categories to help us understand all different kinds of academics from medicine to history. Example how do we explain which people migrated to where and when without having the categories to explain the differences of the people that traveled and created those civilizations? And using these categories have allowed medicine to progress much faster by isolating which race/gender are more predisposed to certain illnesses.
As a somalian we are little diffrent than the most aftican black people but it doesnt that we are not black , me and the guy from congo are black Same like Danish guy and italian guy are white .
Blm abdi
Uskud doofar yahow
Blm abdi
where did you pick up this fool ?
IQ has nothing to do with Race. It's all about discipline and some races have more cultural disciplines instilled into them from very young ages. And some also have better opportunities to be educated than others. If I grew up in China I'm sure I'd be a lot more smarter and disciplined than growing up in Australia
How much benefit you get out of your IQ has something to do with discipline but IQ is definitely not proportional to discipline
You explained it perfectly.
What a menat gymnastics to stay in line :) IQ has everything to do with so called "race" which in a reality is a specie. There are multiple humanoid species on Earth.
I understand his perspective in that we have often utilized racial categorizations as a form of tribalism and as a means to alienate those who we classify as "others". But I think the point here should be that we just shouldn't emphasize race as being so important - not that we should completely eliminate the concept of race. After all, there is some medical utility in knowing ones race (ex. People of African descent are more likely to have sickle cell trait and people from Northern Europe are of higher risk for skin cancer).
It's all post modern bullshit and every step of forward progress is being undone by this critical theory shit.
but again, thats one problem with race. i'm from africa but im somali so I have significant eurasian admixture. There's almost no sickle cell trait in my country. North Africa are amazigh so similar to arabs, they don't have sickle cell. Your view of africa or the race of africans is based on Bantu/Niger Congo Africa which is mainstream. Maybe that's an issue he's talking about.
Good to see Joe drilling this guy. Thaddeus’ desire to remove our categorisation (fundamental to historical human survival) ironically contradicts his desire to have more categories for transgender athletes to compete at. He has some good points occasionally, but overall he’s all over the place otherwise, all conjecture.
Different races if they did not come into contact with each other for millions of years, would have led to different species. Our timeline on earth as humans have not been long enough and we have not been isolated enough to create that.
We share common ancestors with not just humans, but with every living organism on earth and at some point the subtle differences, led to the point where a lion couldn't reproduce with a horse, while it still can with a tiger.
Certain IQ Tests were a bit problematic to me because certain questions could be logically answered in multiple ways, but only one path was the right one
Pretty interesting points from Thaddeus Russell, we all are different in some way even do we came from the same place...
This guy…… 🤦🏻
“Categories bad because people do bad things with them. Let’s get rid of categories”……..
Let’s see how many other thing we can apply this to.
Science, government, technology, marriage, etc.
This guy has a point but can't seem to explain it very well
as a Kenyan who is Somali its refreshing to see the two countries used to explain Africa as a race, btw Somalis may look diffrent than other Africans but they are 100 percent African they are classified as Afro-asian
yes Africans are all more related to each other than to any non african group, that is obvious
This dude must be a blast at parties
He mixes up nationality with race.
Thaddeus Russell is the perfect person to train being humble on.
The comments are just nailing this guy right now across several videos and channels. Extremely stuck up individual. I'm glad joe challenged him in a calm yet engaging way.
As a Somalia, I don't like to be called black or brown or Arab I'm Somali Africa is my continent call me Somali 🇸🇴
"It's a fiction it's made up" is where his position isn't sound. Everything we talk about is made up by definition, it's what separates us amongst so much else from other species in our capacity to use language and categorise things. Can other species do this? Yes but they can't do it with such deep analysis and apply labels with meaning. We have to use these terms to simplify definition.
I've lived in Asia, and as a British caucasian person I evidently sweat more profusely in the summer than the majority AsianiChinese and Korean people around me in. Now say a crime was committed, and me and a Chinese man ethnically and nationally were taken in as suspects, and the witnesses needs to identify one of us, they aren't going to say it was the guy who sweats more, they will say the white guy. If you had multiple people from African nations in a lineup and they all had dark skin, the witness would then need to break it down to height, hair and multiple other features or nationality if it was easily defined. The defining attributes blend and seperate geographically, but it doesn't stop blanket labels being useful, it entirely depends on the required need for categorisation.
That is true, problem is that he is absolutely correct on the other hand when he says that grouping leads to further divide. Like with this whole IQ nonsense. Linking skin pigmentation to the IQ is insane but people who divide people in to races do think in these terms.
@@alexj7640 everyone divides people into races numbnuts
@@nicksutton5579 maybe you do, race is just another social construct that has absolutely no place in 21st century. race can not be defined or measured and has no scientific way of establishing, its poitnless and only leads to division and conflict for no reason what so ever. there may be look at people by their country of origin and culture, but there is absolutely no reason to look at people by the color of their skin as it don't change anything
@@alexj7640 no one said it does change anything but it exists whether you want it to or not. You can’t argue a definition 😂
@@nicksutton5579 it exists because our society decided that it exists biologically there is no such thing as race, every human is infinity different and infinitely identical to one another, so scientifically no race does not exists, It only exists as a social construct, a cultural phenomenon where we decided that people with certain features are certain race,
The whole "race is a social construct" argument is really mischaracterized. (At first I thought people were claiming that there are no biological differences between races, but that's not the case) All that it means is that we assign importance to certain traits and not others. For example, people with detached earlobes or widows peak hairlines are not their own race, yet those things are determined by heredity just like being black or white is.
Jake Sanchez but widows peaks and detached earlobes are interchangeable among race. Skin color has a large tendency not to, neither does facial structure, black people naturally have different hair, racial groups have different penises and breast sizes. Height, bone structure, muscle structure, all of those things play large tendencies for specific groups of people. Race can be used to generalize large groups of people with traits they heavily gravitate towards sharing, if some were not to share certain traits, they would simply be outliers. For example, our understanding of disease has changed over time, we reclassify and treat diseases differently over time, we even treat people differently if they react differently to a disease, is disease then a social construct? No. There is empirically one disease, we as humans simply come to understand it differently over time. Just like there are different races, we as humans come to understand the differences over time, which is why we characterize Jews as an ethnicity and not a race, because you can be any race to be Jewish.
Long Dick Jones I’m not sure if races have different penises sizes and breast sizes. Having larger penises is not a race thing at all. Height and muscle structure is also not a race thing too. People who say that Caucasians are biologically taller is a complete myth. Europeans and other people back in the old days were shorter and modern day humans are a lot taller. There is also a difference when it comes to height between a black Americans and a black person from Africa. Black Americans generally tend to be taller due to nutrition than the average black person in Africa.
@@jonjonboi3701 80% of your height is genetic, 20% is based on diet and enviroment, and height differences do correlate with some race categories. Using a single gene as a race is a false equivalency, races correlate with clusters of gene frequency variants within the overall human genome that break down into major geographic areas, with sub groups and mixed race groups below that.
Africas the most genetically diverse continent so thats were your argument falls apart
Joe at 1:23 i can relate too in so many ways hahaha 🤣🤣
Somalis* not Somalians?
My take away from this is that because we have noted our differences in race it has had dire societal issues… i.e we’re human and terrible
I'd looooovvvee too hear Thaddeus try explaining what the murder suspect looked like too the Cops.
Thaddeus: He was like a ummm a ummm human being 🤣
Cops: Male? Female?
Thaddeus: You'd have to ask they/them
He'd identify "features" for a description and then lecture you how it's wrong to agree with his description.
Race is both socially and objectively constructed. It is objectively constructed because man saw differences in hair, skin color, eyes, height, sex hormones, facial structures, etc. as they explored different territories.We can not deny that race is more complex than it ever was, in that mixing races makes race itself blurred; this makes us forget that we were once strictly singular. On the other hand, to easily identify with these biological elements, man had to categorize these differences for less confusion-- That is the social construct.
Recognising Race and differences is not racism. I am a somali black man, a chinese man is very different from me and so is a nordic man. I dont know why this man is dancing around this issue.
This guy should be a host on the View
this guy is special!
The problem is that people want to use race as tied to significant genetic differences between human beings almost like we're separate species. When race is more of a shorthand for defining
general prevailing phenotypes that are found in various ethnicities. But as they were trying to exhibit with example of the different people in Africa, you can commonly find similar differences even within same mother same father family groups in black people where the children look so different from each other in terms of build, complexion, hair texture, hair color and eye color.
Race is very much biology, I would view race like different breeds. Ultimately all dogs are dogs and can mate with each other but there are inherent biological differences based on genetic markers defined by breed, same goes for humans.
100% correct. Race is people’s breed. One breed is smarter then the other, while another breed is more friendly.
It’s literally not scientific, ppl of a certain race can have mor genetic similarity with ppl who technically from a different race.
@@Hawa434 yes I agree. Humans share 99.99999 % genetics with each other but a very small percentage makes a difference. There’s a reason why Caucasians are more prone to cystic fibrosis or why Africans are more prone to sickle cell disease. Ethno bio markers are an actual thing.
@@pmodi1104 yes u r right but a horn African isn’t prone to sickle cells just cus they r black, genetically speaking they have more in common with non black counterparts. Ethnicity is what should be used to distinguish ppl not race. Middle Eastern r considered white by American standard, that makes no sense.
@@Hawa434 so you say that for example some Russian guys have more in common with Africans than those Africans with other Africans? Doesn’t sound too scientific….
"The nordic were the one that made civilisation...the mediterraneans were just peasants"...I don't if this guy made up this crap or someone was really saying it, but anyway what civilisation did the nordics made exactly? and weren't the mediterraneans the one who actually enslaved the nordics at some point? and actually built the western civilisation and the foundations on which most of the world nowadays stands?
I feel like dude has got good intentions but is so hung up on definitions it’s nuts 🔩 just use the words given to let people know how you feel about this stuff and they’ll understand and not hate so much
This guy wants to nitpick about different types of Kenyans when that doesn’t change the fact that Chinese and Kenyans have BIG DIFFERENCES.
Despite claiming to know about the harmful effects of race he says 'Chinese people all look the same'. What a hypocrite
I don't understand how he doesn't think it's useful to be able to define groups of people race.
Hes Mentally warped, Theres apart of the brain that compares self thought with real word scenarios, He clearly lacks this cognitive ability.
Why is it useful, Byron?
@@AngrySilence example: “go and ask my friend David. He’s the Asian guy standing over there.”
@@AngrySilence I am not even going to justify that with a response. Totally ridiculous
"You know a Somali immediately" "races don't exist" "Jews weren't considered white"
Hey Google show me early life
he's right? Jews aren't white.
He said you know Somali immediately when in context he was talking about Africans comparing the West and East.
"But I want to be a deep thinker and this makes me feel open minded"
Let's build a case on empty assertions, Straw Man, and Slippery Slope argument.
But then you believe in IQ as a reliable quantifier of intelligence????
If this is the general case against the existence of races then I have no problem not going along with it.
Absolutely the most intriguing discussion that Joe Rogan has had on his show.
the guy is just an average redditor lol