Coarse Grit Knife Edges Are Weird - Coarse Vs Fine grit Edges Cut Under Microscope
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- Are fine grit edges actually sharper than coarse grit? I sharpened the same knife with two different edges and looked at the cutting performance under a microscope to see the real difference.
Coarse grit edge sharpening stuff⬇️
Atoma 600 (best deal for this stone on the internet)⬇️
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Affiliated links see full disclosure below⬇️⬆️
Fine grit sharpening stuff⬇️
Sharpal amzn.to/3UuXy7i (great VALUE)
shapton 2000 amzn.to/4aCVkZ3
Shapton 5000 amzn.to/44dPhHP
Not what I used since its not available at the moment but heres some diamond compound ⬇️
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How To sharpen a knife in 5 minutes ⬇️
• How To Sharpen A Knife...
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OTHER STUFF IVE USED AND recommend.
Best first CHEAP sharpening stone (buy this stone first)⬇️
amzn.to/3OeZ4GW (Chinese made) But good
USA made amzn.to/47MGxJc
Best SECOND stone to buy⬇️
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If unavailable ⬇️
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Third stone⬇️
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Polishing stone⬇️
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Good strop compound⬇️
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Don’t buy a strop, buy this instead ⬇️
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My favorite knife as of NOW⬇️
amzn.to/3Uciu3a
These are Amazon affiliated links.
As an amazon affiliate I earn from qualifying purchases.
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Personal statement⬇️
As an affiliate, I earn commissions from qualifying purchases, at no additional cost to you.
I bought everything in this video with my own money, and am free to link to anything I want.
Recommendations, comments, and criticisms, are based on personal experience with products.
At this time, (time of video upload, subject to change) I am NOT sponsored (paid to promote product) by any company. But may receive affiliate commissions after the fact.
Thanks
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Chapters:
00:00 INTRO
00:30 The knife edge preparation
01:04 Hair whittling test
01:51 Paper test
02:37 Cardboard test
03:12 Kevlar test
04:14 Dyneema rope test
05:01 Tomato test
05:53 I tested other things BUT..
06:15 So DOES IT ACTUALLY MATTER? - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Probably the best VALUE stone as of now⬇(Affiliated links, everything bought with my own money, see full disclosures below)
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Review → th-cam.com/video/5w25oJ67C1I/w-d-xo.html
This setup is a close second⬇
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(you need both since the cheap diamond stone 1000 grit isn't actually 1000 grit)
Review→ th-cam.com/video/06OW8ahqZDg/w-d-xo.html
HOW TO SHARPEN A KNIFE IN 5 MINUTES⬇
th-cam.com/video/pagPuiuA9cY/w-d-xo.html
These are Amazon affiliated links.
As an amazon affiliate I earn from qualifying purchases.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Personal statement⬇
As an affiliate, I earn commissions from qualifying purchases, at no additional cost to you.
I bought everything in this video with my own money, and am free to link to anything I want.
Recommendations, comments, and criticisms, are based on personal experience with products.
At this time, (time of video upload, subject to change) I am NOT sponsored by any company.
Thanks
Very much enjoying my Sharpal, thanks for the recommendation
A bit pricey but if you want sharp you want a microtome ;)
The only thing I'd like to see compared is a project farm style edge retention test (e.g. chopping and slicing veg & meat)
Another great video. I love the magnification videos. I bought the recommended two sided diamond stone and I love it.
You were figuratively splitting hairs while cutting the tomato, and literally splitting hairs when you were splitting hairs. 😉
Another master class in macro photography. Unreal results.
Seconded. If there were a second channel with hours of this footage, I absolutely would watch it. It's almost therapeutic.
but why is close up called macro, when it should be called micro? a scenic panorama should be a macro 🤔
@@itoibo4208 You're making small things big, or making them "macro".
@@SikerMinecraft like looking at cells with my macroscope.
@@itoibo4208 The "Micro" in microscope refers to the "micro" objects you're "scoping".
A Macro Photo is a large photo. A photo that is larger than the subject being photographed.
Both make sense for different reasons.
Such amazing work. I love youtube videos that not only talk about the basics, but actually put theories to the test rather than blindly following what is considered "correct".
Amen!
Would love to see an obsidian shard edge that up close.
And tungsten carbide at 71 hrc.
This isn't really showing the edge, just the micro bevel near the edge. You need electron microscopy for the edge because a proper sharpened edge is smaller than the wavelength of visible light.
@@TheDuckofDoom. not even remotely true
A truly sharp edge can fall anywhere between 1-4 micrometers wide
Plenty wide to see under a microscope
All knives round off eventually, usually before .9 microns
Which is why obsidian is “sharper” because it rounds off much much later, usually around .5 microns
Which is still quite visible
All the claims about obsidian being so sharp it could “cut individual cells” is just claims made from Reddit
I couldn’t find a single medical or scientific white paper confirming that theory
Just an article mentioning it, as a theory
So until it is done, documented, written and then published
It’s made up
@@TheDuckofDoom. aren't certain obsidian edges monomolecular
@@sdfggdfg5fgdfg Obsidian blades are not my area of expertise but I know it would be difficult to image and confirm because it is not an electrically conductive material.
Electron microscopes rely on electrical conduction. Some nonconductive items can be plated first, but the plating will coat the very finest details (like a monomolecular edge).
If memory serves the obsidian scalpel thing was a bit of a fad that has lost favor. Steel blades have mostly caught up and obsidian chips are a nasty foreign object risk because they are extremely difficult to detect compared to metal, and that is aside from the difference in risk of generating a chip.(Leaded glass, eg "crystal" would show on xrays, normal glass does not.)
I have seen images of a factory sharpened steel scalpel edge, and it was substantially more even and finer than even a well stropped straight razer. I don't recall with certainty which industrial process was used, but it may have been sharpened with a lazer.
Modern scalpel blades are one time use items anyway so the resistance to dulling is not a primary concern.
i'm curious if edge retention is a factor in a coarse vs fine challenge
This is also something I was wondering
+1
My wife is a hunter and I have sharpened her knife to a mirror polish. The feedback I have got is that it performs very well when skinning a moose for a while but the performance drops significantly before she is done. It might be that I haven't done a good enough job, but on the other hand that is a pretty demanding task and moose are big. I plan to send her out with a coarser edge next year and hope that it will work better.
@@haqvor wtf. My wife refuses to cary any knife I've sharpened because they are "too dangerous", and certainly never brings me moose.
@@outsider344 Your wife doesn't bring you moose? Damn dude, sounds like you got a lemon.. 🤷
I think edge retention is what we need to know, if there is a difference there maybe.
Instinct makes me want to say the course sharpened one would stay sharp longer, for the same reason a serrated knife stays sharp longer. Whether or not the difference is really noticeable at that level is the question.
Was just going to say this, so bumping instead
coarse might roll slightly easier just because each gouge will be a stress concentration, but i don't think it's enough to matter if you strop often
I’m going with coarse grit….
there is. the course edge has slightly more edge retention. But the mirror edge has better toughness ie less likely to chip. the reasons why are obvious, but this is also cited in the book knife engineering by larrin thomas and confirmed on his testing
I think that spending the extra time to get the fine mirror edge is the fun part of sharpening knives, not the necessary. For EDC, I'd say coarse grit micro saw tooth edge would be fine. But for zen reasons, there's just something so satisfying about going after that extra fine edge. I'm not quite there yet but I'm enjoying the process in getting there.
It can be fun thats for sure!👍
The BEST channel for knife stuff AND camera work.
I think that stropping compound is what makes both knives perform so similarly. Both edges look super polished right near the apex. Some of it has to be skill related too producing a really nice apex for the strop to polish.
exactly my thoughts
Seems like the most important thing is to get a clean apex with the coarse stone. If it first happens every other stone will be off.
Plus timewise coarse grit+stropping seems to be the gold spot for every day sharpness
My relative got troubles with nervous system, so now she cuts herself more frequently. Small injuries made by knife polished by 2k grit stone disappear much faster than if knife was sharpened on 400 grit. This is important enough for me to spend more time for sharpening.
A very interesting and possibly important point I haven't thought of👍
There is a reason why scalpels are incredibly sharp. The difference between a cut and a tear affects healing. A scalpel cut almost "closes on its own". I bet most of the viewers here have experienced the way a cut with a dull knife doesn't seem to want to close.
Maybe you should invest in butchers gloves instead.
It honestly pisses me off that we cant get this level of education from our school systems lmao you are a phenomenal teacher and i really appreciate you and the work you put into your content
I have a fun story about tomatoes. It's actually the reason I found your channel. And one of the reasons I obsessively try to get the sharpest edge possible. I work in a commercial kitchen, and there's nothing worse than having to prep a bunch of slightly mushy/on their way out tomatoes with a knife that isn't super sharp. As you can see in your closeups, you release a little bit more juice with the coarse edge. Every little bit matters when you end up with tomato juice down your front and into your shoes eventually. It's better than raw fish water in your boots all day though. Anyway, love the content and I've found that "little bit extra" that I've been missing in my edges thanks to your content.
What is your preferred finishing grit then? Best compromise between edge retention and cutting tomatoes without juice?
@@tjay1305 I use a cheap 120/320 stone and finish on a 1000 stone, gets everything done, 120 if you nicked your knife and need to redo the edge, 320 once a month or so, 1000 every week or so. because of this channel I'm considering a strop.. no point getting the knife too sharp, bites into the chopping board, and can't feel the difference between skin and flesh when skinning fish.
@@fishymaniac104 I sometimes sharpen for customers (and mostly for myself), and I’m obsessed with trying to find a better answer to grit progressions.
Normally for the majority of knives (i.e. cheaper softer stainless) I go 320-500-1000 and stop there. There’s no point getting higher because 1K is where the steel starts getting too refined and loses its “bitiness”. So, the same as you mostly…
I can’t really explain it, but for now my preferred edges need a good mix between coarse and fine, and stainless steel happens to stop at the 1K grit rating or so.
I use a Shapton pro 5k to strop a little if I did a slightly worse job of deburring on my 1k stone. That’s my strop.
No such thing as too sharp to me. True lasting sharpness is only achieved when you deburr properly.
makes sense since you literally use the knife way, way more than the average joe, you'd want better than average excellence.
Though I do wonder, what's the breaking point where it's too sharp and is too easy for it to dent? Though I guess the most obvious answer is not cut anything it's not meant to
@@swordzanderson5352 As I mentioned, for me there’s no such thing as “too sharp”.
However, there is such a thing as “too thin”. This happens when the amount of material behind the edge is too little to support the apex and it buckles and chips very quickly when pressure is exerted. Most people don’t encounter this though…
E.g. I’ve gotten a knife so thin that when you place a thumbnail on the edge with some pressure the edge flexes. This means the thickness just behind the edge is almost as thin as paper. It makes for an extremely sharp knife, but even careful use on a soft cutting board led to chips very quickly.
Softer steel and stainless steel tends to require more material to support the edge and they cannot get as thin as good carbon steel knives that have been hardened to at least 59-62 HRC.
Hah, so I'm not an idiot! I used to have a second job that involved cutting kevlar rope a lot. At the time I sharpened my knife to a very fine grit and it always worked like a charm. Unfortunately I dropped it and it got quite a bad chip right in the middle of the blade. As I didn't feel like spending hours on my 800 grit stone (that's the lowest I had), I brought it to a professional knife sharpener to get it fixed. He did an awesome job and even polished it so it looked like new again, but it felt less sharp to me when cutting kevlar ropes. When checking with him, I discovered that he stopped at 1600 grit while I used to go on to 3000 grit. He basically told me I was an idiot for doing that, as it was a waste of time and doesn't make any difference. It's been ten years since that discussion happened, but I still visit his store regularly and will definitely show him this video haha!
To answer your question... depends on the application. You can tell in the tomato cut that the fine edge creates smaller water droplets, meaning less tissue damage at a deeper microscopic level. That's the type of sharpness for something like sushi or ultra fine culinary cuts. Everything else is a one-stone job
The hard maple cut at the end was really striking. Awesome video and in a class by itself.
Thanks my friend 🙏
I thought I needed a bunch of stones to get really sharp edges...... until I actually practiced and got good..... Now I just stop at ~1000grit because i feel like the edge is more durable in the kitchen. I'm a chef, and it seems, when I take a knife to 5k, 10k, 15k, yea its screamin sharp but after a few hours of cutting its done... if I stop at 1200grit or so and do like 5 passes on a strop to make sure the burr is completely gone, my knife can stay relatively sharp for a week or so of heavy use.
Well duh, you just hit the fine grit knife on the highest grit stone for like 20 passes when you notice it dulling (under 8k grit)... Otherwise you can strop.
You only need to do a full resharpen if you don't upkeep the edge :/
Takes like a minute or two of your day.
Common practice I see in Japan
@@CowsGoM3ow well yea... I maintain most of my knives with a 1micron diamond paste on a strop and that can keep my knives hair shaving sharp without needing a stone for like weeks..
I was talking about full on repair of a neglected edge... all things equal stopping at 1-2k and taking it to 10-15k the 1-2k edge has far more bite and lasting sharpness over a 10-15k edge, at least in professional kitchen cutting on different cutting boards and a wide range of things from pineapple to butternut squash/pumpkins... A 15k edge vs the tough skin of a squash or pumpkin gets destroyed.. That being said I do have a few slicers I use for specific things like butterflying steaks/porkchops/chicken breast that I do keep a mirror finish edge on.. but I won't use those knives for mincing rosemary or cutting up pineapple or any other kind of aggressive skinned thing.
You guys go up to 15k ?!
I have done mirror polishing on lab samples for testing materials, and we stopped at 2k.
Anything further is a serious waste of time, or knife masturbation. You can get an excellent cutting edge at 400 grit already.
Mirror finish is mostly esthetic anyway. It means the metal is really flat. But it doesn't mean that it will cut better. It might not. A flatter surface means more friction overall.
@@alexgac1801 I have the stones from when I was bad at sharpening and didn't understand the process.. I thought more number more sharp.. Now that I have actual skills and understand the principals of sharpening, I stop at 1k because i like the toothyness of the edge (when cutting tomatos, grapes, chives/scallions, cucumbers, peppers, etc. ) I stop at 1k and strop. Sometimes I'll polish an edge just for fun but lately I spend like less than 5mins start to finish on a 1k stone and can shave with that knife.
That’s an interesting insight. I also noticed prolonged edge retention in my pocketknives when I started stropping. Regardless of how high grit I sharpened. I thought the soft nature of the leather strop would create some kind of convex edge which is stronger structurally than just a sharpened bevel
Hey, can you make a tutorial on sharpening small knives? I have a lot of trouble maintaining an angle while trying to grip a small knife
Me too. I'm sure my Leatherman Wave has different angle every time I sharpen it, because I can neither see nor feel whether I'm matching the existing angle.
Since I've seen you answer "I don't know" when questioned about the angle you've use on a particular knife, is the answer to learn to hit the same angle every time (i.e. muscle memory), then sharpen all knives to that?
And a related question: how do you maintain the angle all the way to the tip? The curve always throws me.
litterally click on his channel, he did SO MANY videos like these...
Curvy blades are tough. Sharpen one part of blade. Then sharpen the troublesome part of blade. @@weevilinabox
try a smaller stone. I use stones as small as .5" x 3" for freehand sharpening. i only freehand. I have no issue doing little 3" knives or 8" knives on the tiny stones. But most of my stones are full size obviously. Small stones are good for smaller knives, knives with tricky curves and knives with recurves.
Your macro work is outstanding!
Love your deep dive into the world of sharpening! Macro videos are outstanding! Thank you for making these videos.
@OUTDOORS55 Hey Alex. We were talking on another video about the 400 and 1000 grit stones for a meat kitchen knife. Turns out I bought 2 new Shapton stones, 320 and 1000 grits. Now I can feel the knives are properly sharp and retain sharpness for longer.
Good tools for the job, right!
Btw would be cool if you could make some videos showing how to sharpen tools, like cutting plyers or cuticle cutters. Thanks man!
The music during the paper cutting was just delightful
Sounds like the old Pink Panther cartoons !
Thanks for the very nice footage. It's good that we can finally replace some of the voodoo stories of how cutting works with some magnified video.
In my experience with fine sharpening, I have found that the performance difference between fine and coarser edges shows up more in chopping cuts.
If cutting is being done with a lot of drawing, there will be less performance difference, but if there is less draw being used, the difference in performance becomes bigger.
I employ a few stages of paper cutting test to assess edges. Sharp, but not very refined edges will pull cut through paper well, but their performance will not be good if you push down on an edge that is perpindicular to the paper edge.
Hold the knife dead horizontally with the paper edge also horizontal, but rotated 90deg. Put a gentle curl in the paper to give it some stiffness and push the knife down without drawing.
A more refined edge will chop down the paper instead of buckling it.
The highest degree of sharpness shows when I can roll a sheet of paper in a 2" dia tube. A very sharp knife will manage to "attack" and gain purchase into the curved surface instead of buckling it in. Sharper knives will engage when they are more perpindicular than less sharp knives which will need some draw to start a cut in the flexible broad surface.
I got into these tests when I was trying to figure out how to get super sharp edges. I was comparing my work against brand new black Olfa blades which are extremely sharp. It's hard to match the cutting performance of a new Olfa blade so I found it to be a useful standard for cutting performance when I contrived my own crappy sharpness testing.
Watching makro cutting videos is my new thing when beeing high. Thank you very much. Greetings from germany
You sir deserve an award for your work. There is no better.
Thank you for still making videos. I learned how to sharpen from your videos.
You are the only, and best youtube source!
The tomato! Exactly what I asked for! Thanks!
Man these close up shots are freakin awesome good job men
I think the point that this video clarifies more than any other is this:
The difference in how satisfying a coarse edge is to use vs a fine edge...
Is WAY smaller than the huge difference between how mildly satisfying it is to watch a knife slice stuff with the naked eye vs the ludicrous enjoyment I am experiencing right now just watching it slice stuff over and over in slow motion through a microscope.
I'm just so satisfied right now watching this video. My brain is like "Ooooooooh"
Your ability for keen edges is unparalleled. You’ve got to be the best on TH-cam.
Found a piece of brick tile in my last trip, made me rhink of how sharp you'd get a k ife with it so sharpened around the campfire woth it and got it pretty sharp ! Incredible footage. For my use, coarse is more than enough. A strop seems to be the next step I need
Another reason to only sharpen coarse is how fast you'll notice the blade dull. A finely sharpened blade's edge will dull faster than a coarse blade will so if coarse works for your application, then that's all you need.
Enjoyed your videos!
i always thought i was decent at sharpening my blades/tools, but watching your videos has stepped my game up to a whole level. if you have any tips/tricks/secrets to sharpening drill bits please make a video on it. imo that would be an extremely valuable video not just for your existing community but for many people that have never watched any of your videos.
The visuals you are providing are simply outstanding.
Once again your magnified footage is amazing! Thank You!
Your best video yet! Thanks for all the time and effort you put into entertaining all of us knife nerds.
The camera work is fantastic. Thanks for the info!
Exceptional close up work. Bravo 👏 Keep going bro
Love these videos! Thanks! Keep em coming!
isnt the edge retention better on fine grit or is it to small of a difference to matter?
i don't usually have much to say but thanks, i do appreciate the level of work that is involved with taking extreme macro shots of this stuff despite that it isn't a big money maker.
I love all the super close-up shots. Very cool to see such details
I'll continue just using the Sharpal double-sided and a 4 micron strop.
Great footage and great content as always, bro.
I have never seen such good upclose video work! Amazing job!
Thank you very much!🙏🙏
Best knife cutting video ever!!! Thank you!!!
My man thank you for the unbelievable time you spend figuring this stuff out and presenting your findings to guys like me..clueless! Blessings your way bro!
This is some incredible stuff. Immensely informative
Awesome music and filming! Love this channel. Now addicted to sharpening my knives.
That closeup of stropping was so cool!
Your shots of this are awesome. Your content is consistently great as always. But the photography is next level too. Thanks and hope you get feeling back to normal soon!
Alex your video work is absolutely amazing and I agree with you that having a course grit edge is the is more time saving way to go and it seems to last longer as well imho. I hope you’re health is steadily improving. Thanks for sharing!!
Incredibly satisfying macro shots and they serve as great evidence for the point you're making
Awesome photography. Love the info thanks for taking the time
Very well done.
Another factor is that more stones means you have to stay consistent with your angle even longer. More stones mean more overall time and breaks in sharpening where you have to reset your grip, so you have imagine most people have worse angles. So if you aren’t really skilled at sharpening just using one stone probably means you’ll get a better edge.
This has definitely been the case for me! I'm in the camp of low-skill sharpeners and I find that after I switch to a finer grit stone, I often undo some of the work I had put in on the coarser stones.
Very cool shots, probably the best macro shots of knifes cutting I've ever seen.
Great video, love the close up.
This was an excellent video and got me really thinking about one versus the other. keep up the good work.
Wow, You've reached another level in those close up shots - this was amazing!
That was great, i really enjoyed seeing the different fibers and how they part when the knife cuts them.😊
Your videos are the best. Well done.
Simply incredible. Good info
Awesome vid. Nothing else like it on TH-cam that I've seen. The close-up shot of the strop with the compound was especially interesting. I've been curious to see more about how the burr comes off.
I know nothing about knives but got recommended this video. Your filming is unbelievable! I’ll probably be super interested in knives in 3 months, because I’m absolutely subscribing
The combination of the video and jazz was so soothing.
Very informative and impressive Video. Thank you i´ve learned something tonight.
Outstanding content! Thanks!
Those images are amazing!! Love it!
Seeing cutting is fascinating. Thank you.
Great shots, really awesome. Very interesting too
Awesome video! Great music too. Thank you
This why i love a stockman with different edge finishes for different tasks
Those close up shots are super cool. My favorite sharpening videos for sure.
Incredible video!
Best wishes for your well being 🙏
Very interesting video. Good to see more macro shots.
These closeups are amazing!
such amazing footage!
The camera work is amazing. I hope the stones you use will be available in Europe soon!
I have to say that the information you provide is stellar, my sharpening game really has gotten to another level. Great work!
I just achieved my first freehand hair whittling edge, all thanks to your awesome videos alex, so thank you.
Yet another brilliant video! Thank You Good Sir!
Great photography and of course, "cutting edge" humor. Thanks for continuing to inform and educate with your posts. Blessings!
Some outstanding video work here, thanks for the video.
Amazing video. What a good job you are doing with the camera
Can we please take a moment to just simply admire these incredible macro shots... also very interesting info on the cutting between coarse and fine 😮
Awesome! Would loves to see some tests on differential grit sharpening
This is absolutely wonderful to learn.
Incredible work!
Very cool close ups. Great camera work!
Super interesting. Thank you.
Thank you for your great video. I was well into my journey down the rabit hole and started to have doubts when every edge finer than a Norton fine was a disappoint. The edge looked better and was finer but the aggression of the edge was gone. I now realize if the knife cuts all you want it to cut then it is sharp. Thanks for the confirmation. I enjoy your videos and look forward to many more. All the best to you .
You have done an excellent job on the close up video shots 👍
This video has insane educational value, and I cannot believe that I just watched it for free. Amazing.
Incredible footage. And love the music.
Your closeups are phenomenal! 🥳
the best in youtube. I learned a lot from you
Your jut getting better and better.
Your Camera skills are off the hook! So freaking impressive!
Awesome shots!
Thanks! Take care!
Showing the hairs getting shaved in the microscopic view is actually super helpful because it's the first time I've really had a sense of scale for how close we are zoomed in.
So much respect for this, and for your discovery and sharing of the truth about knife sharpening, ie burr minimization and removal, and the value and effectiveness of single grit (coarse) sharpening. Combining that truth-sensing with excellent teaching skills and the passion to do it all has made a huge difference in our own searches for that truth. I hope we are able to spread it, and appreciation of its value, to other people around the world. Thank you.