We have to talk about this..
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- Link to original video • What Do "Knife Sharpen...
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Link to supplemental video showing the cutting performance difference between a properly sharpened knife • You're Sharpening Your...
Chapters
00:00 Intro and who I am addressing
01:42 First issue- I can’t show everything
02:25 Second issue- using it wrong and why I showed that
03:06 Third issue - I did test the other direction and here’s the results
08:17 Fourth issue- About the knife I was using
09:08 With issue- my red isn’t the same as your red
11:22 People skip around and that’s ok - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
I urge you to watch this whole video, and linked videos, before leaving a comment saying i didnt test something correctly. I actually address most of the concerns in the original video but some how people missed the points. I literally show (with pictures what these do) and i guess people just refuse to believe it. If any butchers want to send me their knife for analyzing under a microscope please email me, and we can show these on the channel. Send me one that you’ve freshly sharpened, and one that you've steeled after some use. And we'll compare the results under a microscope👍
Also keep in mind everything has exceptions. Not all honing rods are created equally. I even referenced this at the end of this video, but possibly not well enough.
ALSO....Notice there were no sharpness tests in this video. Thats because its not a sharpness testing video. A simple video SHOWING what these do to the apex. I do a separate video showing the different between a burr cutting and a clean apex. That can be viewed here👇
You're Sharpening Your Knives Wrong - How To Make Any Knife 1000x Better
th-cam.com/video/sW0bd3Rt_QY/w-d-xo.html
How much is big stone paying you to say this ??!
@@jrk1666 Acting like there's a big lobbying market for every single fraction of the economy is retarded.
@@jrk1666 Who the hell has ever heard of "big stone" before you said it? Nobody. You pulled it out of your ass.
@@Elrog3 I think it was supposed to be a joke
I will see if I can get you some knifes from work next week and send them to you. One freshly sharpened, one freshly sharpened and honed, one used and honed. I'll send you an email when I have them to get your address. It's also worth noting that there are HUGE differences between honing steels. The ones we use have a coating on them, chrome maybe? All the best from Norway
Your channel is revolutionary in the world of knife sharpening. Thank you for doing the actual work and testing!
haha I woldnt say that! I just show what things do, thats all🤷♂️
@@OUTDOORS55 I think you really are though. I've seen many knife sharpening videos and none have quite showed the benefits of a properly sharpened knife like yours have. And you show how affordable and easy it can be with some practice. Very underrated.
@@OUTDOORS55 Yeah, I agree with Blaine. IMO, you're vastly underestimating the quality of your work while also _overestimating_ the quality of your contemporaries. Much of the online knife culture functions like a religion going through a massive schism, where everyone is operating on faith without evidence that they're the only ones who know what they're talking about and that they need to proselytize those beliefs in order to garner converts; the fact that you can back up your videos with any level of empirical evidence already puts you leagues above the most of the crowd, and the lengths you go through make you a front-runner in the minority that is left.
I learned by looking at your microscopic pictures. After watching your videos, I was able to sharpen my cheap knifes on a cheap whetstone. I will be buying a diamond stone, then a honing strop. Then I may upgrade to a better knife. My cheap knifes are working better than dull expensive knives. I was not able to get them sharp until I watched your videos.
@@OUTDOORS55I’ll second Blaine’s kudos and language. I’ve had a couple of world-class scientists/professors as mentors, and your level of insight and teaching is every bit as good as they were.
That type of feedback shows you how good of a topic it was.
I have only received a serious note from the beginning I began watching this channel. Even the segments that have an element of humour will always at least be a creative influence if you are contrary to the topic, or the creator still hasn't been satisfied with the answers provided.
Personally, I really like your longer and more in depth videos. 20 or 30 minutes is not too long to spend on a well made video, which yours almost always are. I think that if you had included the parts that you believed you should have, it would still have been a pretty short video. Also - I absolutely loved the outro that you made for that video, definitely excellent work! The people who quit watching in order to hit the comments and complain definitely missed out!
i always recommend the B roll be put on at the end of the video.
a tight and concise part A and then more of a deep dive after a short intermission.
a follow up video is great but it is hard to follow the progress of a channel when sometimes you end up watching things in reverse.
another option is clearly labeling each part of the video, so people in a hurry can easily skip a chapter and you can even tell them
Like the quote said,
“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”
You’re doing amazing stuff. I appreciate your efforts in trying to be genuine. I hope you don’t burn yourself out on some negative folks commenting. Some people don’t react well when their long held believes are challenged with facts and proof 💁🏼♂️ Stay positive!
As he said in the video, it wasn't really negative comments. It was just concerns that he had skipped testing it forward.
@@isakoolsson -I did hear him say that, so you’re not wrong. I just wanted to make sure, as so many TH-camrs that do incredible work get such negativity in emails and the comments. I figured why not be overly supportive 🤷🏼♂️
I appreciate at how down your earth he is and honestly don’t want him getting burnt out from the nah sayers.
@@orangetruckman Yeah, it's good to be supportive. I just didn't want you to base it on a lie that he did it because of negative comments.
STAY TRUE TO YOURSELF, LIKE U APPROACHES!
I am extremely impressed by the calmness you showed in this video addressing questions or concerns .
Well spoken and thoughtful.
Thanks
I do appreciate the feedback even negative. It allows me to do better next time. However i was anticipating some of these comments hence the quick response video. And it seems most of the criticism was from people who didn't actually watch it, or understand what i was doing. Which was to simply show what these do. Notice i didnt do any sharpness testing in the original video. That was on purpose, since the goal was to show the edge not necessarily test the edge, which I've already done in a previous linked video. 🙂
The calmness? At the end his passive aggressiveness couldn't be more obvious! He thinks his viewers are stupid. Which 21 of you clearly are..
I'm a professional chef for 20 years and a blade enthusiast. I can say that the knife steel is a quick down and dirty way to get a kitchen knife somehow useable without going to the stones. My colleagues all use it, but I prefer to take my set of knives home every week to properly resharpening them. For me, a knife steel is useless.
You are missing one major reason professional cooks and butchers use steels, they are quick and easy to sanitize. You pull out a leather strop in any kitchen or butcher shop and you will quickly find yourself out in the street, they would be a major source of contamination. A steel can be run though a sanitize cycle or washed with strong chemicals and dried quickly. Spend some time in a professional kitchen and watch how a knife is used over two hours of doing prep work and then look at the damage to the edge. You will see the edge warped to one side from the proper cutting motion, rather than bent over in a burr. A steel is used to straighten the edge, not fix burrs.
Hello again! Just wanted to say that I appreciate the follow up video and you taking the time to address comments and concerns. You know your stuff, put things to the test, and show concern for how the information is received by your viewers. Thanks Alex.
i have tried using the steel honing rods in every way shape and form, ive never had them give me any results that were better than it was, the only thing ive ever been able to get them to do is strip a burr after sharpening for a final burr removal, but never as good as my stones, ive never seen anyone that understands sharpening use one, the best thing to use is stones, diamond or ceramic
My intention was to simply show what these do in pictures. It wasn't really about whether or not they can "technically sharpen". Since I didnt do any sharpness testing in the original video. I already did that in another one😂
I can technically sharpen on a rock but that doesn't mean its a good approach. I saw your video and it was exactly as expected. 👍 When you wanna do a live?
@@OUTDOORS55 im ready anytime you are
Wed or Sat 7:30 pm central time
The fact that a callback is required shows how deaf people are to what they choose not to hear
People are most likely just talking from personal experience.
That experience is very limited due to how unimportant sharpness is forced cooking.
If a knife can shave that far beyond anything that will be noticeable while cooking.
@@demmidemmi While i respect thoose who think "well, i've done this through X amount of years and it worked just fine" i can't agree with the people who just comment stuff like ",BuT yOuR'e UsInG tHe WrOnG tEcHnIqUe" when it has already been adressed before that sharpening a knife is just based in consistency and angle, direction does not fully matter as long as you clean the burr. When they argue that their method is better despite it being shown to be inefective... It's one think to say it's good enough, it's another to say things that have been proven wrong or are pointless in context are the right or the best way to do it. I have yet to see someone say "the sharpening stone may take more practice and precision to use properly" wich is fine and valid. In my honest opinion there's more stubborn people than actually unaware ones given how bad every single argument i've seen through most comments is. Everyone is free to do what they want, but it's another thing to have the proof in front of you and decide to not agree with it despite it clearly being factual.
@@Ferrari255GTO people really do not take well to be proven wrong even if it's something that doesn't matter at all and they know next to nothing about.
@@demmidemmi then they need to improove their flexibility towards knowledge, it's worse to stay in denial than to admit a mistake, especially when it's something that is actually functional and silly like this.
@@Ferrari255GTO : leave the butchers to their steels and the knifemakers to their grinders and optics...
It has been said that the "cleanest edge"
may not always provide the desired cut...
NB, nothing proved besides a view of an edge through a microscope - go slice a tomato and see if you like it ... (NB. Butchers and Chefs use stones, and some form of strop on their knives - the steel is for in-between... It does bring an edge "back" - somewhat - maybe not if used incorrectly .
lol..Technique may matter, if the "expert" is doing it wrong.. (imagine stropping the wrong way, slice and dice, poor strip - poor technique) ha ha, chill just larfing....
I was fortunate when I was 8 years old a family friend showed me how to sharpen knives and strop them with my belt, so you can get hairs popping off your arm. I'm now 50 years old and have a lifelong interest in knives. From not liking sharpening steels I've completely changed my view to now loving and appreciating them. I used to want my knives razor sharp but now I much prefer to have them a consistent working sharp level, sharp but not too sharp because some resistance in cutting is helpful. But the real key thing for sharpening steels is that it increases the longevity of your much love knives. When you think about it removing metal from a blade just because some parts of the edge are rolled over or damaged is incredibly wasteful, it doesn't take long before one has noticeably worn one's blade away. Is sharpening still can correct an edge many many times between sharpenings, it's also clean and quick. The only caveat is sharpening steels don't work on blades Which I'll need of harder materials. But I like touching up with the steel It only takes a few moments and it's like a little connection with my knife, it's also very clean. Finally using abrasion, one tends to go from a razor sharp knife to somewhat blunt before sharpening this means you can never be totally sure how much pressure is needed for a particular task, for me it is much better and safer to maintain a constant level of sharpness even if it is below super sharp or razor level.
I think you bring up an excellent point, that sharpening steels have a very specific purpose and use. In some situations, we have the time to use abrasion to sharpen a steel. In some situations the steel type (harder) demands abrasion. In some situations a lower amount of knife use makes it practical.
My Butcher shop comments on your previous video where based on my experience back before these high grade stones where available, A steel was a quick way to bring back working sharpness on our knives while we where busy.
That's the point of it. It's not to "sharpen" your knife, but to bring it back to a working sharpness quickly. A butcher, a chef, whoever, is not going to stop every half an hour for 10 minutes to stone sharpen their knife. A couple passes on the steel and they're back to cutting meat like butter.
@@riccochet704 I guess the argument in vid(original one) is that if you sharpen knife like OUTDOORS55 does(remove the burr) you don't need to stop every half an hour for 10 minutes stone sharpening. It just stays sharp for a long time if you don't cut on glass. People just don't care, it's easier for a regular human to make sharp burr every half an hour for a couple of swipes than to make a nice apex that lasts for a week(months in home kitchen). And it's ok kinda, people have their own interests. Or they like to look like a pro chef using honing rod)
P.S. it takes 1 or 2 minutes to sharpen knife with diamond stone. Even if you do it every day it'll take less time than honing overall.
P.P.S. he used steel honing rod, but I think that the proper one is 3000 ceramic one, it's like fine sharpening stone but easier to use in kitchen.
if you constantly sharpen your knives they wear out way faster, a honing steel is a good way to get another few days out of a work knife without removing any more steel. they absolutely work, without a shadow of a doubt. @@JofumiFurFramovich
@@JofumiFurFramovich I don't think a chef's knife being used 1000s of times a day in a kitchen will stay razor sharp for long no matter how well you sharpen it to be honest. And in a butcher's case it's probably even worse, bone is pretty damn hard. Maybe if you're using a high carbon steel, but otherwise, eh. I mean that's probably another issue on this topic, people are probably using lower carbon stainless steels that lose their edge really quick
@@moonasha butchers maybe, but I guess to cut bone they use different tools. Cutting up carcass you mostly cut meat, to cut bones you use axe or bonesaw. Maybe they use knife to scrape off the meat from the bone, but I didn't see butchers do that the way, they usually cut the meat from the bone. And I've seen how they sharpen their knives. They use abrasive diamond covered steels, somewhat around 600-800 grit and destroy the knife in one month or less. Cause they cut with burr, they don't remove the burr while sharpening, the moment it bent - the knife becomes dull.
In commercial kitchens knifes may be used 1000 times an hour but they cut products, not bones. And OUTDOORS55 showed that he did cut wood for 40 minutes and 1 dollar knife was still razor sharp just because it was sharpened properly(but I can't remember which vid it was). The only 3 reasons why a 30 dollar knife in kitchen would dull faster than woodcuttnig dollar knife to my knowledge - cutting not on proper boards, scraping food from board with 90 degrees knife to board or not properly sharpened knife in the first place. So it's rather lack of sharpening knowledge. I worked in canteen serving 2000 people and I know a little bit about it.
It's just one thing - when you sharpen - you create a burr. That burr is sharp, but it bends easily and that dulls the knife in minutes. And people often do not remove the burr.
I admire & value your scientific method of performing & explaining your procedures. I worked in the mechanical manufacturing & design industry for 54 years from; running production machines, CADD drafting & design, machinist work, lab technician work, building & testing first article prototype builds & for the last 27 years of my career, Managing Quality Assurance for a Precision Contract Machine Shop. Having had a highly technical & logistical career & also being an avid cutlery collector, user & sharpener, I appreciate the amount of time & energy it takes to create technical content like yours. Maybe to the average knife user, some of your content may be too technical, but I try to be a perfectionist to the best of my ability regarding any of the many hobbies that I've pursued in my life; hiking, hunting, camping, fishing, cross--country skiing, snowshoeing, whitewater solo boating, motorcycling, etc. & one can't excel in an activity without education & practical job experience. At 73 now & having retired at 70, I have more time now to pursue my passions. Your content is excellent continuing education for me, so thanks again for not getting frustrated with negativity from some commenters. Keep up the great work & stay safe.
Thanks for the comment! It is a lot of work for sure! Sounds like you're having a fun retirement👍
You'd go a lot further with people if you were able to graph all the testing that you do. If you don't know toolreviewzone he's great at this. People will trust you've done the work if you show all results, not just your favourite ones. Also, I'm not sure I subbed to a guy with an "outdoor" channel means I expect you to use microscopes in order to prove a point?
You seem maybe overly invested in this whole sharpening thing... 🤷♂️
@@OUTDOORS55
Hi, thank you. I have no problem with both of these videos. From my experience, you're absolutely correct. This topic is bedded in folk law and needs to be debunked. I spent years trying to get knives sharp using a "steel honing rod" under the tuition of a head chef, only to go back to a ceramic stone to repair the damage these things cause. Thanks for all your work on this topic😊
iantaylor,
"...folk law..."
Lore.
☆
You don't sharpen with a steel, you just lengthen the time between sharpenings.
I did comment on the other video as a long time user of steels (I did watch it all) . Got to say i really appreciate you doing this video as it cleared up many of my initial questions. I think what keeps us old 'uns tied to the steel is the convenience of where it lives as much as what we 'think' it does.
then if I was to suggest a take away from all this, it would be to replace the steel in your block/drawer with an abrasive one. The same motion (but possibly slightly slower per pass? not sure if you go full Gordon on your steel) will do a better job at keeping your blades in good condition
@Mark- Todd I'm an old in as well, now retired. What needs to be considered is the context of the working environment in which knife steels are used.
Just read the Wikipedia to see that he is still wrong! I have a sharpening rod that has chromium to get a harder material, becoming more abrasive. There are new materials for sharpening rods that keep the pace against new knife materials!
@@VitorFM that "chormium" stuff just destroys knives, taking chunks out of the edge
Thanks for all the work you do for the knife community. Continue to share your knowledge and experiences. And happy new year.
First: I always watch the complete video before I comment. Secondly: I think that there are only two (2) TH-cam channels that are to be taken really seriously when it becomes to steel and knife sharpening: yours and that of ‘knifesteelnerds’ Larrin Thomas. Please continue to do so!
Neeves?!
What about Will Stelter
Excellent follow-up video! I appreciate your patience and your precision with speech. Thank you!
Thank you for all the time and trouble you go through to inform us of what you do and how you go about it. Your videos are very informative and I learn something from each and every one. Please keep up the great work.
Thanks for the additional video! Cleared up any questions I had. I really appreciate you going thru the various quasi-sharpening tools/techniques like the pull-thru sharpeners and the steels (per these last two videos). Thanks to you, my knives (and the knives of my extended family) have never been sharper.
I want you to know that I’m deeply grateful for your videos and hard work! Lifetime knife guy and you have really broadened my understanding and skills!
I like that this man has a growth mindset. Knowledge is constantly changing and I appreciate the updated info. Thank you. I only wish you had a store so I could support you directly.
Thank you for your comprehensive videos. I find them immensely beneficial. Of all the knife sharpening videos I've watched I value your opinion the most. Thanks again.
I watch because I want to learn more and you deliver in a understandable way, thank you!
I think you explained things very well . What I was saying on other vid you made is working with a boning and steak knife in my hand for 10 hours a day is a good way to tell if a steel does good or not. The way and amount you rolled that edge in the first vid never happened to me while working , you had to go backwards on the steel just to try to pull it out. But believe me never try to take a steel away from a butcher, we even had our favorites the one that seemed to work better than any other in the shop. I will continue to watch as your videos are genuine.
I appreciate this comment. You've shared a personal experience that is relevant to the topic, and noted that it goes against some of the things presented in the video. Rational and respectful human beings can disagree! I'm grateful to have both the video and comments like yours to help improve my own experience as a home chef.
- or he simply doesn't know what a steel is supposed to do - or how to use it, lol...
- ?? thinks that as a "knife maker" - talking to "the best" makes him a judge of all... (I reckon you running back to the stones every second or 4th cut would get old fast...)
Smacking a block, pounding copper - just get an axe, or a cleaver (don't even abuse a cleaver like that - hmmm lol..)
PS. I could talk to a brain surgeon every day, it doesn't make me one - unless I train correctly - put in the years. (NB. Not a brain surgeon- just a rocket scientist - jk - oh yes I talk to surgeons, sometimes too ha ha...)
Thank you for the great time and effort you put into making these details clear for us! 🙂
A honing steel works very well for it's intended purpose. It's a kitchen tool used to quickly align the "teeth" of a kitchen knife that is already sharp but has been used a bit. It's not to straighten a burr. Kitchen knives are not usually soft steels, they're relatively hard, brittle stainless steel. If your knife doesn't come back to peak sharpness within 10 seconds of using a honing steel then it needs to be sharpened.
This is exactly why I watch your channel. I watch all your videos. You explain it well. I’ve always used one of those irons because I figured if the professionals do it, it must be the right thing to do. I never looked at it underneath a magnifying glass and realized the damage I was doing to my precisely sharpened edge. Those irons are for people who have dull knives, because it will put something on there that will cut, but it’s not a sharp edge. Thank you for your work.
Fantastic video, I like when you get more technical around the methods and practice. A huge piece of learning is seeing what doesn’t work, and unsuccessful methods are more abundant than successful ones but often go unshown
I appreciate your testing methods and all your hard work!
I've been watching outdoors55 for years now , everytime i watch your shows i always learn something new or old , but what i really like is your explained in detail of why it works or doesn't , your super close up shots really do help me understand why my knives are the way they are using your method plus from others i have managed to have good results each time . plus it is also nice to seeing the true and real results from the close ups . Keep up the awesome vids you do , do take good care and be well
Hello from Bulgaria 🇧🇬
I must say your work is absolutely brilliant. I'm literally driving my car from the leather shop why I purchased a piece of leather to finish my strop😊.... thank you for all your advice
On a dull kitchen knife, presumably long de-burred through use, honing seems to slightly improve cutting performance for a short while, even honing on the spine of another knife. My hunch is that the damage caused to the edge creates a micro-saw effect that works in materials like meat or tomatoes. I think even a regular honing steel does have *some* abrasive effect, in the same way that any two metal surfaces exposed to friction will wear down each other over time (e.g. door hinges).
That said, of course, sharpening and stropping with proper abrasives to an optimal apex is by far superior to anything involving a honing steel.
How about a video about sharpening card scrapers? That could be a whole new frontier for a comment war ;-)
these are my thoughts exactly.
I can FEEL the difference cutting a tomato before and after using a steel.
Thank you for being very thorough, I am learning a lot thank you!
To me as a complete beginner, your videos proved to be quite helpful. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated! 🤝🏻
I've been following this channel for a while and I trust you to test everything properly, but yeah you should have mentioned somewhere that changing the direction doesn't affect the end result.
You know how internet comments are. People will argue every minute point just so they don't have to feel like they're wrong. You either have to treat this like a courtroom or you have to deal with a bunch of negative comments, and that takes the fun out of making videos for a lot of creators.
To address the people saying that you need to show the process, you can do what Matt Parker does, he dumps the whole unedited process on a different channel. So for example, in his video where he rolls dice to calculate pi, he edits that down to a watchable video, but on his second channel, he uploaded the full 8h of him rolling dice and marking down the numbers, specifically so people can't say "Well you didn't actually roll 1000 dice" or "You forged the numbers" or whatever. Its not meant to be watched, its simply a reference for people who want to see the whole process and methodology.
TH-cam recommended your video. Your videos are so informative. 10/10
Not only do I really enjoy your videos but I also like the long format content very much. It's very informative when you explain things in great detail.
For me, it has a lot to do with practicality ... how sharp i need something to be and how much time I am prepared to invest. For most kitchen tasks, the steel works just fine. Similarly so for most of my workbench knives. A steeled edge is not as sharp as a stoned edge and needs touching up more often, though this only takes 3 or 4 seconds. Where I need a really keen edge, say for a skived edge on 0.5 mm thick leather, I will spend the time with stones and strop. This takes more time but is essential. I do keep my knives for different purposes separate. Great video, well thought out and most definitely not too long.
Yup, exactly. Many knife sharpeners who are hellbent on having "the sharpest edge" likely doesn't understand that the level of sharpness is relative to the task (or, more insidiously, don't want to believe that there's actual nuance).
@@malice5121 It always makes me laugh at the muppets who sharpen axes to what they insist on calling 'scary sharp' or some such rubbish, spending an age to produce an edge that will not survive a couple of blows into a tree.
The issue here is that he shows that using a stone doesn't take longer than a steel, and that a deburred knife cuts longer and sharper.
@@Dan-gs3kgpeople refuse to understand and are just stubborn
I don't like and I don't use those ribbed steel rods but here is my opinion. I think the function of those butchers ribbed steels is not to sharpen a knife or remove the burr but to make a micro bevel and somehow partially restore the knife sharpness before next sharpening. Lets say you sharpened your knife the way you usually do. First the DMT fine diamond plate (or Kuromaku 1000 stone) and then a strop. You make a nice sharp edge lets say with 15 degrees angle per side. Probably the width of you edge is somewhere between 1/2 to 1/4 of a micron. Then you use your knife and it starts to get blunt. The edge will get the shape of a mushroom with the width of a few microns (4 or 5 microns I guess). At this point try to do a few light alternating leading (against the edge) strokes on your steel rod at lets say 20 degrees. Only the edge (mushroom shape) will be touching the steel rod so the contact surface will be very small and the pressure will be very high. This will remove mushroom shape at the edge (a few microns) and partially restore the edge creating a micro bevel. The knife won't cut like a fresh sharpened knife but good enough to finish the job with vegetables in the kitchen.
Just my personal opinion how those steel rods should be used.
Yea these rods always seemed like a professional stopgap tool to me. Something to keep a heavily used tool running during business hours, until it can be properly serviced after hours, or at the end of the week. I think it's does more harm then good for the non professional knife user, who can afford stop and spend 5-10 minutes to do the job right.
-skipping- great channel and discussion. I was taught (and still do, 70 years later) "burnish every cut, steel every bone or tooth". Or bang on a board. I use a Victorinox 12" combination burnish/steel rod (that has facing smooth -burishing- and ridged -steeling sides), free end on the bench to help me keep the angle correct. It works.
I use other, abrasive, tools to "fix" others' knives. And mine, at times.
"Burnish and steel" keeps my kit sharp, and others asking "how". Not banging edges is most of it.
Yea, if youre working at the meat counter, you cant stop for 20 minutes to break out your diamond plate and dirty strop. You take your steel and hit your knife for 20 seconds, and keep going. Will it be hair whittling sharp?? No, but if you know what youre doing and didnt let it get too dull, itll be shaving sharp again so you can keep processing meat.
I have no doubt a plate and strop gets a knife much much sharper. But when you have 300lbs of meat to get done, time is of the essence, and good enough, is good enough. These knife larpers have completely lost touch with the utilitarian purpose of a knife and have taken things wayyyyy too far.
Seemed pretty clear to me. Thank you, I really enjoy all your videos.
Thank you for explaining the difference between a push technique and a pull technique. No one else bothers to do that.
People have no attention spans. There was a youtube short, literally like 20 seconds, where everyone left comments that indicated they only watched 5 seconds. Their comment took them longer than actually watching and getting the correct info. The video was a guy who said he could add a screen protector without an air bubble. 5 seconds in, he is removing the first thing used to add it and people see the filming lighting and think it is an air bubble, he hasn't even removed the application film and they all are making fun of him. Blows my mind that 20 seconds was too much for people and they call him out in 5 seconds. It is like, people use logic, would he self post something like that. oh well.
Tl, dr
Typical armchair expert.
Don't know a thing, don't watch the video but comment like they're Einstein read all pages of the paper thoroughly.
Most annoying type of comments, more than straight trolling.
It’s all pretty clear and easily understandable 👍🏼 good job and happy new year
THANK YOU so much for these 2 honing steel videos. I saw a knife get very sharp right after applying it to the steel, but that would not last a long time when butchering deer. Now I know what that is, and I will change my process to your recommended one. Wonderful stuff!
The macro shots are an incredible enrichment of what results from the respective grinding process and tool.
You don't have to waste time on dumb people,
but it's very kind of you to address their concerns...
Just so you know:
You're doing brilliant work!
I love the straight forward honesty, the authenticity, the knowledge shared and your feel for your profession.
"My sharp isn't your sharp and your sharp isn't my sharp!"
My friends know I carry a knife. Always.
So occasionally, one will come and ask for it.
When I hand over my knife, I will warn the bearer:
"Listen! This is very sharp! If you touch the blade, you will cut yourself. Be very careful!"
The face people make, when they get caught, "red handed". For not listening.
I dont believe its dumb asking about something you dont understand. thats why I made this for further explanation. Thanks for the comment 👍
@@OUTDOORS55 Nah, they are dumb if they willfully skip through parts that address their concerns.
When I was in school some kid was whining, "My physics teacher is awful, and wrong about everything!" Nah, you slept through the entire semester, failed every test, and flunked out. This kid could be a world renowned genius, but in this one matter, he was incredibly dumb.
I have to agree with you on this one@@OUTDOORS55
I'm not afraid to ask the "dumb" questions. I did find your previous video self explanatory though. BUT, from the "dumb" questions that you answered today i learned even more: I didn't know that professionals and experts in blade-making "don't agree on what the 'burrrr' is" < You did mention that in the DEFinitions part of the video.
And I've also learned now that, pre-magnification era, Some people maintained the Burr, not the edge. And that misconception lives even today.
I like "dumb" questions that are answered with patience and expertise :D
Keep up the great work 👍
"red handed" LOL. To be honest, I cut myself with a dull knife way more easily than with a sharp knife. A sharp knife is a treat to work with, a dull knife becomes your enemy. When I must work with a dull knife without any time or way to sharpen it, I must put a lot more force into cutting. And more force in combination with a dull knife is a bad combination. At least when I cut myself with such a knife, it is not that bad.
I've watched both videos now and I have used a knife steel for decades. I was interested in the mechanics of the steel and was a bit confused. They do make a working edge on a dull knife, probably not as good as it could be, but enough to keep slicing and dicing. Despite what I just said, I don't use one on a knife that I really care about.
So grateful for the time and effort you put into making all your content, so helpful, really appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
It's good that you read and react to the comments. I always learn one tiny new thing.especially with your excellent close ups
Great video as usual Alex. Thanks! Oh and the studio is looking awesome!
I think Steels are really a bit dated as metallurgy has improved so far. Chefs, Butchers, and Meat Processors, use thin blades, and those used to be carbon steels. Modern stainless blades are far more refined and take a much smoother edge when sharpened fully, as do modern carbon steels. Many a Chef and Butcher have thought my sharp edges too sharp, and prefer their more agricultural edges where they get more "saw" and feedback. Control is what you are used to, but however the sharp no one wants the cut to run away with itself. These professionals often do love a Steel, and I think what they love is because Steels maintain a consistent "feedback", rather than exactly what the Steel does to retain sharpness for longer.
A Steel is going to roughen up an edge when compared to an ultra fine ceramic stick. Push or pull depending on taste and what "feel" is desired.
I love super sharp and a ceramic can do any realignment I want, but then I'm not a professional Chef. Working sharp doesn't always mean as sharp as can be done, but what works well.
Knife discussions best done with a beer. Ten beers on then its all beelocks, but vids like this help give a higher level of it. Keep up the good work.
I can remember a surgeon that also Like a micro saw knife edge more then a plane one...im Sure they did a study on it about heal Times and scar size...but cant find it now.
For me the saw Blade from a steel is good in kitchen and for Wood i use a Diamondrod, ceramicrod or a strop.
And the steel rod should not be Like a file, more Like a sandblastet Textur.
On my Wood scrapers i use the rod all the time to Turn a fresh 90 in to a Hook.
(Last Video a Cooper Pipe was used to role the edge...im Sure then a steel will do that too)
Greatz from Germany
and have a nice Day
opo
A surgeon might like some "saw" ragged edge to aid in the knitting together of the wound. More surface area?
There are a lot of tasks that sharp enough is enough. Just doesn't require getting perfectly smooth sharp. Especially when work wear and damage is so frequent that the extra time taken to get perfect edges isn't efficient use of time. I like very "perfect", but then that is more "hobby" than actually necessary. Near perfect is more robust and lasts longer unless hitting a rock that will damage any edge. Whatever works for you.
Most of the time half my tools are just "work sharp enough". Occasionally, I get everything stupid sharp (when its been raining all month), but that doesn't last long once the work starts.
ATB@@opotime
I just enjoy watching someone with more knowledge than me talk about a topic I'm interested in, it's a good practical skill! 👍🏻
I really enjoy the testing and explanations in these videos.
I think it’s a fantastic video and subject that no one has microscopically addressed, I work with knifes and honing steels everyday and am sure the quality and type of honing rod has a massive difference on the cutting edge, there are polish cut honing rods and more aggressive honing rods. Regards and thank you for the fantastic information
Agreed and alex had a coarse one
Leaning back to my comment on the previous video, with the relative hardness of a honing steel(65-67 RHC) the visible ridges you see make it act like a file, so i do stand by the fact that that particular honing steel is abrasive.
I made a similar comment !myself, and got a sarcastic reply.
The problem is the 'fake sharpness' caused by the burr.
Yes, the burr may feel sharp and can cut quite well but that sharpness is not coming out of the blade but rather the fine strands of metal which will easily strip off and make the blade dull again quite fast.
Thank you for taking the time to thoughtfully address some of the concerns people had.
I think perhaps part of their skepticism was due to not watching enough of your videos to appreciate your skill, experience, honesty & ethics, in order to gain the sense of trust & respect I personally have for what you aay.
I have been watching your channel for about 3 years, and using your videos as my educatuon, I recently made my first knife from an old file, using a coffee can forge.
You have inspired me to begin a new hobby that my wife is not too pleased with! 🤣
Thanks again, Alex.
You rock! 👍
I've had a very long reputation among friends for being able to sharpen knives. Years and years. But you've shattered everything I thought I knew..., and that's good. The key here is "time". Rub two things together long enough and something's bound to happen, right? And so it was with using a "steel". I was simply thinning the edge until it broke off, creating a new edge. Folding over the burr maybe I suspect. Never understood about stropping. Well, I inherited a lot of knives from an uncle and I asked for a couple new ones for Christmas and really dove into this "hobby". WOW! I won't mention the specific products I now proudly own and use, but they're good and knowing how to use them correctly has changed everything. LOTS of time saved and much better sharpening. I just now need to find a review from you about a particular sharpener to see what you think. I don't "need" it as my skill at maintaining a consistent angle manually is spot on, but my brother swears by his. BRAVO dude!
Nice comment, but now I want to know your techniques!
@@jameswalter3136 The biggest technique is learning to sharpen at a consistent angle stroke after stroke. Muscle memory I suspect. I find that imagining that I am shaving the sharpening surface helps. The so called "sharpening steel" is pretty useless but the diamond stones work well. Pressure is also a key, to not use too much. I just purchased the Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust and can't wait to use it later today.
@@ImOnTheEdge Thanks!
Thank you for your work Alex! I've learned quite some tricks from you that made our home kitchen knifes into better tools.
I've read comments under the original and under this video. I feel there's quite some misunderstanding for people who have experience with the honing rod working for them well. It can be true if they are using the ABRASIVE one. I think some people just heard "honing rod doesn't work", not "non-abrasive honing rod doesn't work". I know you mentioned it multiple times, maybe a stronger emphasis on that aspect would have worked better?
He said steel honing rods are non abrasive. I commented on this showing how to prove they are by wiping down with kitchen paper and observing the steel deposited on the paper.
Yup, mine sure works. I don`t think they make non-abrasive ones now. What`s the point. @@danielcalderwood6674
I often felt like a knife edge feels like a feather. It's both a delicate and powerful thing and you can feel it work when you move it in the right medium.
Your approach to preparing these experiments makes me wish that you would consider doing a knife thinning tutorial. As a chef who is also a knife nerd, I'd love some more overlap if you ever find the interest or time. Thanks for the amazing content as always!
Im actually working on a similar video at the moment. Not a tutorial per say but the importance of geometry 👍
@@OUTDOORS55 really looking forward to checking that one out 👹
Thanks for the followup. It'll be painful to change my habit but I'll get over it. It is obviously just trashing the blade.
Thank you for doing all this testing and educating on sharpening knives, it is much appreciated!
I appreciate both your videos, and have been using a stick for years. I just thought I just wasn't good at it, so thanks for reinforcing it wasn't me! Bought some ceramic plates from your advice. Thanks again, and looking forward to sharp knives that I'm not redoing 5 or 6 times each time I use it.
This is why (as a Chef) I use 3 different grades of honing steel & yes, it takes years of practice to simply "feel" how the edge is graduating.
Then we got the question. Why use 3 honing steel and likely more time than just a 400 diamond stone. Like he has shown. You do not really need more time and the results are shown too.
@@LickItTMbecause it looks cool
In the middle of a busy service, I simply don't have to time to set up a stone, a few strokes on each steel & I'm ready to rock.
My knives go over the stones about every 8 - 10 days (at home).
Otherwise it's simply a matter of maintaining the edges.
@@misenplace8442 he showed in the video that you can just grab the diamond stone and hold that thing. Give it few strokes and be good.
Not really any effort.
Like 20 - 30 seconds.
How is this any slower than the steel?
Also the edge will retain longer than with the steel
@@misenplace8442 try find a cheap 2 grits thin diamond plate attached to a plastic holder which mimic the stropping, as it looks like a "very squared" honing steel/stropping tools but use thin diamond plate on both side. That way it can act as a honing rod/stropping with a diamond plate function.
I have used all kinds of sharpeners for over 60 years. I have had some success with butcher steels, not as much as diamond sharpeners or recrystalized silicon carbide. But realize that hardened steel can sharpen any knife blade. Diamond facets are ground with diamond powder (on a copper plate with the powder suspended in oil). Steel can sharpen steel, but it would take time. So stroking a knife edge against hardened steel will eventually sharpen the edge. My grandmother’s butcher steel had the ridges almost worn off, but with a little patience it sharpened a knife, not a fast as diamond or silicone carbide, but it worked.
This was helpful to me as i use this tool often to try to avoid using my wet stone.
Thanks for doing these videos, there are so many things that we do just because it's conventional wisdom and it's great to see these assumptions being tested.
For some legitimate criticism that I think could help a lot in future videos like this. Obviously I don't know the limitations of your setup and workflow but when taking images for comparison I think it would be much clearer to have both the before and after shown in split screen. Also to have the before and after images be as similar as possible. That makes it easier for a layman eye to actually discern the images or to even make sense of them at all. I like that you use colored parts as reference points, but they become useless or even counterproductive when the "after" image doesn't show the same reference point. Consider that most people watching this have none of your experience and that being overly clear in these ways can help a lot with getting your message across.
Second part is the actual heart of the "myth" itself. Getting too bogged down in the semantics and putting too much emphasis on the semantics of the issue has a tendency to distract from what you are trying to get across. In this case, someone will watch the video and hear your emphasis on the difference between straightening a rolled edge vs a rolled burr, when in their reality they just know that the honing rod makes their knives cut better after a few passes. When the format of your video is made in a way that is debunking this fact you are not really convincing any laypeople by talking about the difference between a rolled edge and a burr. In their minds you still haven't disproven that their seemingly dull knives cut better after using a honing rod.
Another issue that possibly can't be solved without perhaps too much work is the tests. Intentionally dulling a sharpened knife to mimic average use or get the desired "rolled edge" can seem a bit too sterile of a method. Your idea of having people send you knives, or even if you reached out to some friends or acquaintances to get to borrow some stuff from their knife drawer would probably be closer to a real life scenario than banging the knife edge against some cedar-wood a bunch of times.
A test that would be much more resistant to scrutiny would be two naturally dull knives, preferably from a butcher or a professional kitchen and preferably as identical as possible. Photos of the edge from the start point of both knives, shown side by side so it's easy to see differences and similarities, color marked for reference point and to tell them apart. Test cut different things to show how each knife preforms, paper, and tomato are probably the easiest to show the difference. Then you use a honing rod (preferably from the same place you got the knives, that way you know it's supposed to work) on one knife, take the photos and show the difference with the reference points centered and showing both edges in split screen so it's easy to see the differences. Then do a test cut with the same objects you used before to see the difference. After that use a diamond stone and strop on the other knife and follow the same procedure. Test cuts and pictures to clearly show the difference.
This way you get the real world results in the difference in performance, as well as the images to show the difference in how the edge looks and you can easily explain why the knives preform differently. It's also easy for people to compare the difference between how the edges look if you end with a four way split screen of the before and after of both knives with the different methods.
I say this as someone who does do self taught amateur knife sharpening with stones, but I also have a really old honing rod at home that I use and it does have a noticeable difference in how well my knives cut after I have used it. The caveat here is that I don't use it before or after every use of my knives, I use it when I feel a dip in the performance of the knives. I also didn't need to use it for a long time after I initially sharpened my knives with stones. But eventually even the best knife grows more dull with daily use. And after using a honing rod it did cut better. The question is would I have been better of just making a few passes on my ceramic stones and a strop, instead of using the rod? Would the knife be sharper at that point or just maintain the sharpness for longer? I know I can do these experiments myself but I'm trying to provide some possible thoughts that other people watching the video might have.
Regarding your second point I guess it depends who his intended audience is. Personally I find the distinction between edge and burr to be useful information.
This is very good criticism and suggestions. For whatever reason a honing steel does make a dull knife better, but why? Is it simply crudely sharpening the edge, burs & all? Even a ragged edge after a honing steel would cut better than a dull rounded edge? Perhaps not all honing steels are the same? Some are stripped and others are completely flat with an even surface. Perhaps even the hardness of the honing steel plays a role, as well as the composition of the steel.
I think many are arguing for the honing steel because it does do something, you might show us the close up images but our experience tells us there is a positive effect. Perhaps the effect would be best achieved with a diamond sharpening stone. Is the problem with the honing steel it’s surface (ribbed or flat), the metal type (impregnated with diamonds, abrasive, etc) or the shape of the honing rod? Perhaps a diamond honing rod has the same effects as the diamond plate, but the convenience of a honing rod?
@@YaH_Gives_Wisdom Ahoning steel that is harder than the knife AND has the grooves could be scraping bits off the knife so it is functioning similar to an abrasive rod.
In my case the knife is harder than the steel and it looks like I am shredding the rod with my knife.
@@MorbidEel most boning knives are lower rockwell than the honing rod. For meat works any way. Most german chief knives are similar. But then alot of Japanese knives are higher rockwell 60 - 60+ harder than a normal metal honing rod. Hence you would need to go to a ceramic rod. Ceramic and diamond hones / rods. Will take off fine material unlike a metal hone. A diamond hone more than a ceramic. Just like sharpening stones. Great topic. I think alex could have tried different hones and knife steel types. And put them through real test enviroments. Any honing rod not used properly will cause edge problems. Make a sharpe knife blunt. Rolling your edge instead of realigning it.
Regarding your third suggestion, he could test the veracity of his dulling method by obtaining example knives from friends, imaging those under microscope, then sharpening and dulling each one and re-imaging to compare. If the dull edge looks the same, then it shouldn't matter how it's obtained.
I thought both of these videos are highly informative. They give a far more objective view of the process than anywhere else, afaik.
I'd be curious to see what the effects on the edge are when chefs go nuts and yeet their knives on the honing steel, as opposed to the deliberate precision you used.
Really glad you made these. I've never been sure as to what I'm doing when sharpening knives,tools,etc.. Thanks for putting this information out here..
Thank you for doing all that you do!!
Hello Alex. Honing rod is one of the most complex topic on knife sharpening. I wasn’t planing on leaving a comment because I agree with your conclusion- ribbed honing rods are horrible and you get a better edge on any stone. While I agree with the conclusion there is a lot more to it if you enjoy technical details.
Both ribbed and smooth honing rods do not work by realigning the edge as people think. They work by adhesive abrasion creating a microbevel that has a few microns width. This microbevel is so small you can’t see it with most optical microscopes but if you look at it with a scanning electron microscope its clearly visible. This images are available on Science of Sharp.
The abrasion capacity of ribbed and smooth honing rods is very limited, they will only fix very small damage and that’s their first significant problem. The edge roll you did is way too big for it to fix.
If used with low force on small edge damage it can create sub micron edge as sharp as any stone yet that doesn’t change the fact that they are horrible. The surface contact area is with the rod is very small so the pressure it applies is very high, this creates a lot of metal fatigue and broken carbides on the knife that significantly lower edge durability. People that use it recommend daily maintenance, I say the edge it creates is so weak it doesn’t even last a day.
Which is why professional knife users steel their knives several times during the course of a shift. Theoretical levels of sharpness aside, the context of the working environment in which knife steels are used has to be taken into consideration.
@@danielcalderwood6674 I do home cooking only once or twice a week. On a cheap 60HRC knife the edge lasts over eight months shaving sharp without any touch up.
I really hate ribbed honing rod, the only reason I can think of to justify using it is the lack of any other sharpening equipment. I get a better edge on cheap China stones, slate stone I stumbled on the street or even a clay brick.
@@thiago.assumpcao *I do home cooking only once or twice a week.*
So you're not using a knife 6+ hours a day, 5+ days a week then. Ofc your edge is going to last over 8 months at shaving sharp. Duh. You don't use it enough. But you did hit the nail on the head: the honing rod is exceedingly complex to use. Much moreso than even a whestone imho. With that said, though, watching a master at their craft, esp butchering (who use honing rods the most; gee I wonder why...) they can do it so fast and perfectly that there's never really a need to put the edge to stone. Because in the food service industry, it doesn't matter if you are "saving time" by sharpening the knives at the end of the shift vs using a honing rod during the shift: *_if your knife isn't cutting properly at the moment you are using it, then you have a problem._* Plus, I've always had issues with ultra sharp kitchen knives never keeping their edge more than a few days to a week, but I also use my knives about 10x more than you do, cooking multiple times a day at home multiple times a week.
@@malice5121 If you are happy with your edge only lasting a few day or settling for a low sharpness blade there is no need to change but that's not for me.
All I know is if it did not work butchers would not use them. I worked many years in a butcher shop and use the steel often.
thats what i think people arent understanding; 'often'. we use steels CONSTANTLY to keep the knife sharp, we dont use it to sharpen a knife we have made dull by sawing into lumber and cutting copper pipes!
Your recap is greatly appreciated. Well done!
You are providing a very valuable service to the knife community. Please keep doing what you're doing!
It would be interesting to see you test a ceramic honing rod and if the results are the same. That's what I'm using at home, basically before cutting pretty much anything food related, and it seems to do the trick. What do I know though, maybe I shouldn't bother with it at all. :)
Ceramic is abrasive I actually used a ceramic in this video😉
My ceramic rod (a Yoshikin Global) removes almost nothing compared to my budget Sabatier steel, which has the bite of a file. My Global knives are pretty much the same shape as the day I bought them. The Sabatier's have hollowed bellies. (Which is why I bought the 1000 grit Shapton Kuromaku as soon as I saw it in this channel!)
My comment is based on using both of them "edge leading" and always towards the handle.
@@OUTDOORS55 Oh, somehow I missed it. o.O But with ceramic being abrasive I guess I have my answer, it actually does some micro sharpening of the edge - and not just "straightening" the burr - when I use it?
I left a commt in the previous video. I'm a long time retired chef and I've always used aa Messer Meister ceramic rod to touch up my knives in between sharpenings. A couple of controlled swipes brings it back rather nicely.
einfach die ganzen kartoffeln hier so lustig :D Grüß Gott @@sethprice241
I agree with your assessment on this matter. But instead of throwing away my honer, Ive sharpened the tip and made a nice throwing shank out of it. 😎💪🏼. Works really nice..🔪
Thank you for the elaboration.... I hope I can find your video on proper sharpening.
I watched your original video concerning this "Chef's Steel" and how a knife edge/burr reacts to it's use! I fully understood everything that you had to say about it, as I also did in THIS video!
Your INTEGRITY and HONESTY just earned you another subscriber. I've been watching you for a while and learning a great deal from you. I greatly appreciate your gracious willingness to share your knowledge and all of the things that you're learning about the art of knife making along the way in your journey! You have made some wonderful examples of what light weight and practical use knives can be like and I would love to get my hands on one! :)
Thank you for being the kind of guy that you are! God Bless and God Speed in your house situation as well my friend! :)
I worked for years in a meat packing plant. I learned from experts how to use a steel. Here is the problem I have with your video. First a steel is not intended to repair the rolled edge as you create it. That is far too much damage and the knife must be resharpened. A steel corrects small parts of the edge that are slightly rolled. If you look directly at the edge of a sharp knife it will appear dark and will not reflect light. As you use a knife you will see small reflective areas where the edge is slightly bent. A highly polished steel will roll that straight again with two or three strokes. Meat cutters steel their knives every few minutes as they work. You would never see a ribbed steel in a meat plant. It is a consumer gadget intended to actually scrape metal off of the edge. Look for a smooth steel and give it a try.
A smooth polished steel is called a burnishing rod. But you seldom find them in kitchens. But a ribbed steel does the same thing but may present sanitation questions in a food packaging operation. Note that in the kitchen, we wipe meat off the blade with our apron.
Forgot to mention that the smooth back of another knife can be used as a steel. You just have to be extra careful swinging knives around in both hands.
Once again, I believe you've mischaracterized the purpose of the sharpening steel, which is not to remove a burr or rollover, but to maintain the edge of a properly sharpened knife where there is wear to the edge but not necessarily a severe rollover.
Yeah. It's like complaining an oil change didn't fix a flat tire.
the issue is most peple *think* its sharpening the knife. i see it all the time with my dad saying how he loves to "sharpen" by hand. using a steel rod :) and mom loves to "sharpen" using a shitty pullthrough sharpener. so every blade is super dull here 😂
Another great video. Thanks.
I'm no where near as good as you at sharpening (I maintain my kitchen knives and edc). But I'm improving and you're quite a big part of that.
Thank you.
Points well, and convincingly made - Excellent, thank you!
I used to work at a butcher shop when i was younger. At that point i had around 10 years of sharpening experience and had been collecting knives for 8 years. I still had, and have much to learn, but i had edges that whittle hairs and cut paper towel readily.
All the butchers there used steels constantly, but from my testing with steels I had found the same results as you. I did not and do not like knife steels. I mentioned this and was mocked for judging the sharpening skills of a butcher.
Anyway, after 2 or 3 months of consistent use they started complaining about dull knives and the lead butcher decided to bring in his sharpener which was a tiny belt grinder that shouldn't have ever been used in a butcher shop because, you know, metal shavings flying around. He did not really know what a burr was. The only testing he did was some butcher paper. No knives that he sharpened managed to cut the paper. After about an hour he gave up. I offered to sharpen them and was told i was not allowed to "ruin" their knives.
Safe to say i do not work their anymore and I chuckle when someone mentions how sharp a butchers knives are. It is definitely not a universal fact that they are always sharp.
I have come to the same conclusions as well.
I have also worked in a butcher shop quite a bit from a previous job😉
@OUTDOORS55 I would love to hear if you have any stories related to that. I have nerve damage in one of my thumbs from one of those dull knives slipping.
Also, I appreciate your content. Someone as knowledgeable about sharpening as yourself confirming or debunking sharpening/edge maintenance methods is very interesting. Thank you for what you do.
My comment on your last video was definitely meant to be both polite, and a viewpoint from a professional knife sharpener designer. Many of my designs have been copied by many over the years. Thank you for the second video. I would re-emphasize for some of the people making comments against these to go back and read my comments in your first video. Chefs and processors do not think these are a sharpening method unto themselves. They are only meant to get you through your work shift. And it is required that cooks, chefs, and processors start each shift with properly sharpened and maintained instruments. The only thing I would point out is you are dulling knives before your tests on these. That is not how it is supposed to play out in a real life meat cutting situation.
These will never take the place of proper sharpening. Which it is also assumed every processor does either before, or after their work shift.
Nothing replaces good skills with good stones. And of course, stropping.
(For the average person who considers using these, I agree with you a good one might be a ceramic one. I don't like the diamond one's. The diamond dust wears off too soon, and you end up with parts of your knife that stay dull.)
Have a great day Alex!
Love the vids.
(P.s.- I always watch full videos before I comment. And I rarely comment on anything.)
Thanks for putting out good info. I appreciate the thought and effort that you put into your content.
Thankyou for the informative video. I am new to my stones and strap, making headway because of your video's.😊
The quality of your sharpening steel matters. There are coarse steels and fine ones, just like sharpening stones. The first video, he used it wrong, edge trailing. BIG surprise, it doesn't work. Then in this video he used it properly and the knife was back to cutting paper. It's almost as if using a steel to maintain your edge while working has a long history.
It's almost like you didn't listen to a word that was said
@OUTDOORS55 I watched both of your videos all the way through. You are mistaking criticism of your technique as a personal attack. It's not. Steel honing rods are used by butchers and chefs because they work, and you can keep them clean. A stone, no matter the variety, will harbor bacteria, putrefy, and become a source of contamination. Will a honing rod make or keep a pristine edge? No. We know this. That's why we pay experts like you to sharpen our knives in bulk, and use honing rods in the kitchen until they need resharpening again.
Why are you so defensive?@@OUTDOORS55
@@Jack-cc3qmHE'S USING DIAMOND STONES WHICH THEY SHARPEN IN DRY, NO WATER WAS USED.
ON THE OTHER HAND, HE CLEARLY EXPLAINS THAT THE BEST THING THAT THING CAN DO IS CURVING THE BURR ON BOTH SIDES AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES U THING IS SHARPENED AGAIN BUT DOESN'T FEEL AS SMOOTH AS WITH A STONE.
IN ADDITION IN THE 1ST VIDEO HE TRIED CURVING THE EDGE, NOT THE BURR BECAUSE IT SHOULDN'T EXIST IN THE 1ST PLACE AND THAT THING JUST MAKE IT WORST; THAT'S WHY HE KEPT THE BURR KNOWING THAT IT IS WRONG AND USE THAT THING TO "CORRECT" THE BURR AND MAKE IT FEEL "SHARP" AGAIN BUT NO SMOOTH, BECAUSE I REPEAT THE BURR JUST GOT BENT TO BOTH SIDES, SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T EXIST IN THE 1ST PLACE.
NOW, GO WATCH BOTH VIDEOS AGAIN L-I-S-T-E-N-I-N-G HIS EXPLANATIONS.
For a long time, I thought a knife steel was not very useful, but my mother always used one with her Chicago Cutlery set she had. I have to admit, when the knife seems a little dull, using the steel sharp side first, makes the knife sharp again. My thought on this is that it makes it sharp in a different way. the knife steel is just chopping off the burr parts that are weak. what is left, is an edge that is more like a saw blade with teeth. Just like a serrated blade would be, it is a different kind of sharp. You are probably too young to remember the television adds for Ginsu 2000 knives, but they are serrated with very small serrations. For food preparation, this type of edge is fine and works great. for impressing your friends by cutting paper, not so much. A couple days ago, I was visiting my parents and noticed that my mothers whole set of knives were dull, I sharpened them for her. This is the first time the knives had been sharpened since she got them, aside from her using the knife steel. The thing is, she has had the same knives since the mid 1980s. Obviously the knife steel had to be doing something to make the knives sharp enough to use for 40 years.
Tomato peels are better cut with serrated edges, for example.
Good explanation, thanks! Always enjoy your videos. Happy new year and many blessings to you and yours!
Between you and mcq bushcrafts old videos I have learned how to sharpen knives like I know what I'm doing. He got me started n you brought it home. Your channel is such a great resource. Several friends consistently bring me their knives and axes to be sharpened. If only they knew.
Yeah... You know your stuff. People should start their own yt channels if they're such experts.
There was a couple video replies, but what it did was simply show a lack of understanding on what they originally viewed. My intent was to show what they do with pictures. Not saying they cant "make a knife sharper". You can technically make a super dull knife sharper on a rock, but its not the best approach, and there are better methods.
, I'm not a fan of sharpening steels. They just don't make sense, and you prove that.
Good job on the folow up video. My main concern is that people understand that YES a "butcher's steel" (whatever you want to call it) will indeed maintain an edge for the softer steels out there. NOT recommended by me at all for harder steels (~60HRC+). However, regardless of microscope pics, the fact remains that a butcher's rod will maintain softer steels quite well. There will come a time when the rod no longer works, and going back to stones is necessary. Same with harder steels using ceramic or diamond rods for their maintentance. There will come a point in time that stones are necessary to actually get the edge bevel back to its original geometry.
You made the comment in the last video that a butcher's rod cannot straighten a rolled edge, only a burr. I completely 100% disagree with that statement. For example, take a Victorinox knife and sharpen it, sharpen it well, completely removing the burr so that you have a crisp apex. Use that knife. Over time, that edge will indeed roll over. It just does. A knife edge will either "roll over" depending on variables, it will "micro chip" depending on variables (not likely with Victorinox and similar knives), and it will just simply dull, again depending on variables. The butcher's rod/steel/whatever you want to call it cannot fix micro chipping nor dulling. It does in fact straighten a rolled edge, and does so with ease. The small diameter of the rod creates a relatively very high pressure point on the edge, and will straighten a rolled edge with ease. This is NOT a burr. The burr was removed during the initial sharpening process on stones. So to say that a butcher's rod only works on burrs, and not rolled edges, is simply not a true statement. If a cutting board can roll an edge, then a butcher's rod will easily push it back. Over time, that back and forth bending will weaken the apex, much like a paper clip being bent back and forth, and the apex will fall off/get rounded over/become too thick. Hence the necessity to go back to the stones.
Photos of microscope images just really don't mean much to real life use. Anyone who has used a soft steel knife will tell you that, yes indeed, a butcher's steel is a great way to maintain a knife edge, up to a point, when using softer steels in the likes of Whustoff, Henckels, Victorinox, Chicago Cutlery, cheapo Wal Mart specials, etc. They just.....work. Like I said in my reply in the last video, millions upon millions of users over decades upon decades can attest to that fact that, yes, a butcher's steel will re-align a rolled edge. Not a burr, a rolled edge.
This video says otherwise
You're Sharpening Your Knives Wrong - How To Make Any Knife 1000x Better
th-cam.com/video/sW0bd3Rt_QY/w-d-xo.html
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
I think both videos were excellent. I had some questions after the first that were not cleared up in the second, but no worries. I'm no pro. However, the training I had was from some who worked in a meat packing plant. He told me to use it with the trailing edge. Second, you only need a couple of strokes on each side. Anything after that is for show. Works for me. Excellent channel and content!!
What Outdoors55 doesn't understand is that, even though he is a professional knife maker, and has proved countless times that he can sharpen at a unbelievable level of quality...Well, we have sharpened a few knives in our kitchens using the knife steel, and it clearly made the knife duller, but we spent money on this block of knives from crappy tire and they wouldn't just sell you something that didn't work just to give the purchaser a false sense of control over their world, because we can sharpen their own knives now, and when they get dull, we can throw them out and buy new ones. Outdoors55 will never sharpen a knife as sharp as some keyboard warrior can achieve with a rusty steel dowel that they keep in a moldy wood block, or junk drawer. I'm sorry you had to find out this way. Now make a video about how cheap steel is more than good enough for 99% of the population, as cheap steel is still....steel. That will get the likes, for sure.
dork
@skashed Professional butchers, chefs, and meat cutters obviously haven't a clue about how to do their jobs.
@@danielcalderwood6674 They know how to cut meat, that's their job... cutting meat. Not every professional carpenter sharpens their own saw blades. It doesn't make them a bad carpenter. It's a culture of "do what I say, and don't question it". People still believe the earth is flat, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. Knife steels, like the flat earth, just is obviously wrong, and its been proven wrong. Yet here we are, with the evidence above us, denying that steels are nfg.
I was a professional cook and was able to keep a properly sharpened knife sharp virtually indefinitely using a professional steel honing rod. I could cut what needed to be cut smoothly and cleanly. I never used a honing rod to sharpen chisels or plane irons . If I had attempted to sharpen a typical chef's knife to hair whittling sharpness that knife would have been full after cutting through a turnip. There is a world of difference between theoretical sharpness and what is usable under working conditions where the knife is in constant use..Generations of professional knife users have shown that steel honing rods work for the intended purpose.
@danielcalderwood6674 Maybe the knife was sharp already, and you rubbed it on a piece of steel, and just assumed you did something. Or maybe it's as you say, and the knife was dull when you were done cutting food with it, and you somehow put and edge back on it with a piece of steel. I wasn't there, so who am I to say.