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I don’t know if you’re being paid off or worried about out getting people mad but sorry, the rhaenyra scene at t the end totally destroyed the show. Nobody is mad about “big battles” so stop gaslighting in defense on this terrible writing. Why would kings landing blame the king for rhaenyras blockade? Cmon
@@Marlboro-lights1 I'm not quite sure why a difference of opinion means I'm being paid off, or why I'm gaslighting, I've seen plenty of comments, even on my own videos, talking about the need for battles. Although even then, my point isn't the need for a battle anyway, it's the need for a climactic event at the end of the season that can a) tie all the disparate stories together and b) properly conclude people's arcs. I too have a lot of issues with the writing, hence the title of the video, but I also consider things to be more nuanced than either terrible in every way, or faultless. The end kinda sort of works specifically for Alicent's arc, but not much else. There's some sense to what they were thinking, but that doesn't mean it works
Thank you for making this video I've been saying this since the second episode of the first season that on a production storytelling level this show is absolutely confused the characters are always randomly emoting at inappropriate times the storyboard is all over the place like they want to keep the story a secret even though they're trying to tell you a story that's so important that you're not even allowed to know. I think Damon Targaryen should have been played by Gordon Ramsay LOL but yeah I'm into the Arts and this show as a piece of art is absolute garbage @@mylittlethoughttree
This genuinely felt like episode 8 of 10 episode season. It’s like they just decided to stop right there and not show the last two and save them for next season.
According to behind the scenes that’s exactly what happened. Instead of rewriting the entire script for the season, they kept it the same and just cut out the last two episodes where a battle would have been and the fall of King’s Landing
@@berserk4souls HBO called Ryan Condal a few weeks before production began on what had been assumed to be up until then a 10 episode season. Three months later, the writers strike forced them to cancel any rewrite plans because they couldn't contractually change the scripts without the writers in the room.
@@Vivy-f1t They work for HBO, though. You’re not supposed to go around criticising your employers and making them look bad if you want to keep your job.
@@Vivy-f1t At this point, though, any damage has already been done. And has his words been directly accusatory? Because saying “we were told to shorten the season” after the season is finished is different than directly rebutting a statement made by a spokesperson before the season came out.
@thomaswillard6267 But Rhaenyra never wanted anything bad to happen to that baby. That was all Daemon. Why would she feel satisfied with that outcome? Jeahaerys wasn't Alicent's son. Now she has to CHOOSE to let her son die. Rhaenyra lost a son, and now Alicent should.
@@yylfordt6125 Brother he’s not saying the show is bad or that he dislikes it or that the writing is bad. He’s simply saying that more than anything the producers who have the final say on the product did this season a lot more harm than good. As it’s obvious season 2 is good, but not without its flaws. Very few people are actually saying season 2 was bad, but that rather that it suffered from some obvious and avoidable issues in both story telling and writing, mostly because it was made very clear to us that this season was meant to be 10 episodes instead of 8. And the seasons suffers from the lack of its proper conclusion in the 10 episodes that were cut down to 8. TLDR: he’s not saying it’s bad and he doesn’t like it, he’s saying it’s good and he likes it but it suffers from some very clear and avoidable issues.
@@yylfordt6125I get that this is a strange notion to the people who lack nuance; You can like something, while also being critical of it. There, I said it, I let the cat out of the bag
@armorpiercing3277 I wasn't necessarily targeting him. I just hate that literally EVERY video/podcast about epusode 8 everyone is just shitting on it so much... & not appreciating it.
@@yylfordt6125 Well MAYBE bad things need to get called out, and vocally so, so that things can improve. Why should the audience let things slide just because some people see SOME good in it? If you set the bar low, we will continue getting mediocre crap. That's literally the system and relationship between creator/consumer that keeps the marketplace moving forward. I think in this situation it's YOU who has to learn that you can personally enjoy something while it is OBJECTIVELY bad and while people call it what it is.
i think alicent's characterization/arc was handled horrendously this season. she went from putting aegon on the throne for the sake of protecting her children to selling him out at the chance of running away with helaena... it's just confusing because i didn't get self serving motivations at all from her in season 1. maybe elements of self preservation, but that was completely erased this season. i thought she loved her boys despite how terrible they are? you just can't convince me this is the same woman who charged at the heir to the throne with a dagger infront of everybody to stand up for her son... i don't know who this imposter is it's not my alicent
You have to remember scene structure, Alicent begins the scene with a focus on her freedom before bringing up Heleana, meaning that by the end Alicent's most important thing is herself and Heleana is secondary
@@guerreiroazul3230 i can appreciate where alicent is by ep 8 and it does make sense, but my problem is HOW she got there. from the start of the season there were just a lot of things written that was inconsistent with her characterization and where we left her in season 1, that in itself made her a less believable character to me. moving forward her arc feels incredibly rushed and half-hearted, just didn't seem like an organic progression to me
“you just can’t convince me this is the same woman who charged at the heir to the throne with a dagger in front of everybody to stand up for her son” well duh…it’s almost like we got an entire season of character progression where alicent goes through deep self reflection wherein she realizes that all the values she upheld and defined her identity by have amounted to absolutely nothing but the eventual destruction of her entire family. i do admit the writing has been a bit clunky at times (plot wise) but emotionally, narratively, the themes are there. so to say that her characterization has been inconsistent or horrendous is not only grossly reductive but also foolishly laughable.
I describe Ulf as a morally ambiguous Peter Griffin. Gets a dragon and first he he does is try to fly back to the clam to show the fellas his dragon. "Hehehehehehehehehehe"
they literally had an entire plot at winterfell they could’ve done something with but instead we got mud wrestling, daemon having an acid trip, and alicent looking sad. lmaooo
if they did what youre suggesting you would have raged, the things that werent in this season were excised because 8 episodes can barely tell this story, let alone a greater one. you dont *have* to comment on things.
@@tasha7726 Yeah, I don't see anything at Winterfell which would have needed telling right now, either. The only important part, the army of the North crossing at the Twins, we got.
Daemon spending a whole season"learning" he did not want a crown when it was perfectly portrayed on S1 And to take his agency away to make him a pawn of the prophecy makes him plain boring
I think Matt Smith’s acting did a lot of heavy lifting. He really sold me on the arc of a guy who keeps taking big swings, kind of missing, and then, in a way that’s very unlike most of the other characters, going “Hmm, maybe I’m actually fucking up here.” It’s sort of there in the writing, but he makes a few performance choices that really help glue it together for me.
the thing is....that daemon "motivation" they gave him wasn't even real....just now in an interview condal said daemon doesn't really know what he's seeing (in terms of the song of ice and fire), so what was the point? I've said it previously but it feels like nothing that happens on this show has consequences, which is the same problem later seasons of GoT had I think people are too quick to conclude that the audience is complaining for the lack of action, when what we are complaining about is the lack of substance and we come back to the infamous d&d quote of "creatively it made sense because we wanted it to happen" which is literally what condal and hess have been saying in many interviews, just different wording
The prophecy feels for me like a quick fix after losing two episodes. I felt the end point was naturally going to be Aemond does something that calls Daemon to action, and that becomes the moment he decides to back Rhaenyra, however when there's no longer space for that kind of action seen, you need something else to conclude his arc...and what we got was the prophecy
I really thought season 2 would end with them taking kings landing and sitting on the throne then season 3 would open up with the aftermath of all that
Did it though? He didn't write the show, the writers are mostly the same. I certainly noticed the lack of camera-f*ing of his wife in the middle of random scenes, and the fact that the majority of the scenes were actually visible in this season, other than that I'm not sure how the man responsible for GoT S8E3's departure hurt the show.
@@thomaswillard6267 I think what we have here is correlation, but we don't have causation evidenced. We know, that he left and the show is suddenly much worse. However, we also have writers strikes and budget/episode cuts. The important thing is that season 2 has lost the sauce, and they need to step it up majorly to fix season 3 and onwards, now we only have 16 episodes to wrap up the whole show especially.
@@landonluebke7627 Unless the reaction to this season reaches the C-suite suits and it's negative - they don't care and will keep things at 8 episodes to keep things cheap. That's how the business works.
Really? I thought Sapochnik was one of the worst things about Game of Thrones. And he was mostly responsible for directing and all the massive battles.
Your HotD reviews have been my favorite on youtube. You articulate the psychological state of the characters so well and you've nailed so many of the issues I've had with the tone and character arcs. It sucks that a season with so much potential was so screwed over by network greed with the episode cuts and being forced to film during the strike :(
This episode was incredibly frustrating. Alicent's character was thoroughly assassinated. Rhaenyra wastes time with more waffling and hypocritical behavior. Daemon's character development was overwritten by compliancy to prophecy, cheapening his whole arc. Corlys accomplishes a grand total of nothing and effectively shrugged off his wife's death. Jaehaerys' death seems to have been forgotten. Sunfyre is dead? Nobody in the Vale cares that Rhaena ran off and is wandering the mountains. And, of course, what possessed the writers to think that not one, but two scenes of Rhaenyra and Alicent smuggling themselves into the heart of enemy territory was ok? If it's that easy, one Faceless Man could solve this entire war in an afternoon. What a mess. I'll give the season some benefit of the doubt due to the writer's strikes, but seriously, this episode did a ton of damage to the show and compounded all the existing issues with Season 2. The bad does not wash out the good, but man, the torrent of bad towards the end of the season was very hard to swallow.
I genuinely need to ask. What was Alicents character to you before this? I keep seeing people say her character was assassinated and honestly I just don't see it so I'm really curious as to what you thought of her before this
Faceless men have never been introduced in this series. This happened 200 years before GOT. Were they even around then? Genuine question. It's always been odd to me how there are 2 centuries between the 2 shows, and you would literally never be able to tell. People assume (rightfully) that culture/society hasn't changed or evolved in 200 years...because it doesn't appear that it has.
@@caseyw.6550 According to Fire and Blood and The World of Ice and Fire there are rumors of Faceless Men being used in the time of Aegon I's conquest, so yes, they should be present. The Faceless Men claim their origins trace back to the slaves of Valyria. They could be lying, of course, but if true the Faceless Men have been around for a very long time. And since this show has tied itself to GOT with the Daenerys cameo the Faceless Men should exist in HOTD's continuity as well.
I’ve genuinely appreciated your fairness when covering this series. I feel like modern audiences see people like Ryan and Sara who are in the limelight (and are legally contracted to promote the show), and blame everything they dislike about a show on them; but there’s an entire studio that all of their choices have to go through first before the show can even be filmed. I agree this season has been slow in building character arcs but I also would so much rather they take their time than cram everything into eight episodes. I really wish they would’ve been allowed to have ten. 😩 All’s well though. It was a fun series while it lasted and I’m looking forward to seeing more of your coverage.
I was annoyed about what they did with Rhaena in the last episode. She had at most like 60 seconds worth of screen time and it was spread out throughout the episode. With how little they were showing her I thought by the end we would see her try to claim the dragon. And even though it’s not a very important storyline at this point I was expecting something more climactic than what we got
It's funny because I recorded the whole audio for this, and only when editing the video did I realise I had completely forgotten to mention her. Her story was so absent that I completely forgot 😂
I think this season really suffers by not having Otto or someone similar involved. Scheming, plotting and manipulation is so central to the GOT universe and it is almost non existent this season. Its missing intelligence in that sense, characters whose intricate actions drive the story forward. Most characters came across as aimless, felt much more like they were there to serve the plot, not to drive the plot forward. They felt very reactionary, not proactive if that makes sense
The problem is that they wanted this to be a story of Rhaenyra vs Alicent. Fine but then they have to have agency... they must make decisions to move the story forward. To play the game of thrones you must be ruthless, cunning, duplicitous, aggressive... you know all the things that Ned Stark did not do. This is why GoT was better, because they made Ned the protagonist in S1 of GoT and they made him honorable, just, trusting... and he loses his head for it. They are trying to do the same thing with Rhaenyra and Alicent but not have the same consequences Ned faced. Cersei told Ned, "When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die. There is no middle ground." That foreshadowed what would happen to Ned because he didn't follow that advice. The writers are trying to write the game of thrones without there being actual consequences for Alicent and Rhaenyra.
I mean your criticism are valid in themselves but clearly you missed the mark on Ned's character and his role in overarching narrative but then again this is one point that the show GOT failed at as an adaptation. The books do actually validate Ned as you progress through the books.
By making the female characters all "good and self-righteous", they are actually alienating female fans (like me) who love female characters like cersei, olenna, catelyn, arya, arianne, brienne, daenerys, and so many, many more. they all have unique personalities, motivations, and REAL agency. they just don't say men bad, they actually do things that are impactful, and not by "accidents". in hotd they're just the same. Men make war, men bad, we women are good while actually doing NOTHING.
Were you just born this stupid or fashioned into it after watching reviewers like this guy? I doubt you have the critical thinking skills and self reflection to truly know.
With 2 more episodes they could’ve so easily had the battle of the gullet, and then rhaenyra take the throne; and the season would’ve been excellent. It’s so obvious there’s a budget issue or that HBO forced them to cut the season.
HBO said 8 episodes, the creators asked for 10. I think/suspect that the writers strike might be why but who knows. IMO they did the right choice to not rush the season to fit in a large battle but this feels almost like a 2a and that at least part of season 3 will be like 2b. I will always support unions so can't complain too much that people asked for a liveable wage and better job security so just have to hope that season 3 is better and that Duncan Egg might be a good substitute in-between
@@zombie45611 have you ever watched the first "Penny Dreadful" series on Showtime? (The one with Eva Green, not the one with Natalie Dormer.) It basically suffered from the same problem, with the lead writer also apparently getting tired of the project ... but unfortunately they did their worst with the final season, and the results were absolutely atrocious. After that, this seems like nothing. But I do hope it doesn't bode bad tidings for the rest of the show!
@@rhaenatargaryen8061 and yet it’s still a disappointment. I don’t care if God himself descended from the heavens and prohibited filming. Prequel to a top 3 show of all time and ANY of ASOIF media carries an expected standard of quality, and they have failed to live up to it. Nothing will change that. (*I will now gladly cancel my max subscription for another 24+ months waiting for the war they’ve teased since 2022 to hopefully be depicted in season 3 in actual 10 episode format with proper funding, pacing, and lore accurate characters*).
Would've been excellent? What is that even based on? The season has been mostly disappointing so far. What would another episode or two have added? This season has far more issues than just the fact that they had only 8 episodes and the finale was not what people expected or wanted.
I think one of my personal biggest gripes is that I - me as a viewer and it maybe subjective - never see the horror of war. There was obviously Cole's and Aemond's trap and that was good, but a) it was also kinda "badass" and "epic" and I feel like this goes somewhat against the message, granted it is an inherent flaw with dragons in the show and b) we didn't see anything about Sharp Point, the horror did not register for me. Yeah, we saw Aemond and Vhagar looking down and the flames and stuff and we heard how many people died, but it felt so off-screen, even visually it looked really whatever. Which, granted again, is kinda true for Sharp Point as far as I understand (it's not an important location), but I have a hard time ultimately caring about the "looming death" the way they describe it. It always feels to me like, if any side actually wanted to minimise death and war, they should just take all their dragons, fly to wherever Vhagar is and kill her and then whoever wins that battle is basically the winner of the war as well. Sure, it's dangerous for Rhaenyra and Co., but as mad as it sounds, it's actually the most empathetic choice, if you actually really care about the Smallfolk. It's also just the simplest and quickest way to win anyway and extremely ressource-efficient. And so whenever Rhaenyra or anybody else try to come up with plans and tactics and schemes, they ring hollow because it's so obvious that just trying to kill Vhagar with all their might would end the war basically no matter how many dragons die as long as 1 or 2 survive.
I personally don't see the imagery both at the burning mill and rooks rest as glorifying "badass/epic" at all, especially the last 5 mins of Criswins's POV. Horrifying disturbing stuff. It's not the show's fault audiences have been conditioned to get entertained by imagery they don't intend to be particularly entertaining. Condal has talked about this specific topic on the official podcast and he totally 100% gets it, he knows GRRM is a big pacifist and he wants to work that into his story - but there are obvious budget restraints as with sharp point or the riverlands after all.
The part you mention about Sharppoint is very true. Why did we not see pre-attack where the smallfolk are terrified of seeing Vhagar and just how rageful Aemond was? We didn’t even know beforehand that he was gonna go there to my knowledge
I really wish Hugh would've pushed back against Rhaenyra in the dinner scene, her plan is to... risk the lives and or kill the smallfolk of Lannisport and Oldtown? I understand destroying ships but with Ulf and Hugh witnessing firsthand the devastation and death caused by Rhaenyra's (!!!) blockade surely Hugh would want an end to the small folk suffering in Kings Landing. The fact that Hugh (and Corlys) is so withdrawn and doesn't blame Rhaenyra in the slightest for the death of his daughter is v disappointing.
@@blaubeer8039 Actually, I liked the Burning Mill, but that is not a dragon fight. It just always seems that dragons are easy to control, look cool, dragonriders are happy being dragonriders and the collateral damage would be kept relatively low if they just duked it out. Like, yeah, many people died at Rooks Rest, but so did two dragons. In the long-run, this is a net positive when it comes to saving lives. The restraint there feels so weird, at least to me.
Rhaenrya is a coward at heart. She is afraid to fight. She doesn't want to risk herself or Jace in combat, thus the avoidance of planning how to kill Vhagar in an ambush. Besides this, why no assaination attempts on Aemond? Vhagar would then be unclaimed at least for a little while Spoiler for books Rhaenrya is truly a coward. This leads to her ultimate loss. She has Syrax at the red keep when the dragon pit is attacked by the small folk. Rhaenrya doesn't ride to defend the Dragons in the pit. Her son Joffrey defies her, steals Syrax and goes to the pit. Joffrey dies, Syrax dies and so do all the Dragons in the dragon pit. If Rhaenrya wasn't a coward, some of the dragons would have survived. A dragon being directed outside of the pit could have stopped the attack. Joff knew it and tried. Syrax wouldn't have it. Joff ended up being thrown to his death from his mum's dragon.
It so clearly was meant to be a buildup to a true finally (episode 10). With the cut of two episodes and this season being affected by the writers strike, I am overall happy with what we got for season 2.
They weren’t even that effected by the writers strike! In fact they were one of the few shows that continued filming because it was not located in the united states!
This whole season just felt like all build up no pay off. Outside of the battle of Rook’s rest feel like we barely saw anything. Some episodes would crawl at a snails pace and then it would feel like it was leading up to something only for it to happen off screen. I honestly questioned what show I was watching during the mud fight
The final scene was most foolish on par with the stuff of Seasons 8 and 7. Alicent somehow arrives at Dragonstone and then sells out her children, except for Heleana. What the hell? Her motivation in the first season was to protect her children from Rhaenyra, and she would kill them, as Otto suggested. That and her reinstatement toward Rhaenyra’s actions, with Cole and her siring bastards, and having unmarried sex. What she does in this season makes her a hypocrite. Then they have a stupid conversation, resulting in Alicent giving Rhaenyra Kingslanding and having her kill Aegon. So that was stupid, and she should never have happened, but they want them both to be whitewashed and have a woman power scene.
This final was so exasperating to me. I watched it with a friend and her boyfriend when it aired and the boyfriend said "well now I have narrative blue balls!" at the credits, and honestly, I think that is just what I was thinking. I know that they still need to properly build suspense for the next season, but they also never properly wrapped up this season! There was too much that was unresolved and I Do Not want to wait two damn years for it to be solved. So help me... I was peeved. A few other points: 1.) I didn't like that Helaena asked her mom "Why do they hate us?" It just feels like clunky dialogue seeking to lean into the "Helaena is innocent" idea. But Helaena is incredibly intuitive and intelligent, she Does Not need her mother to explain the situation at hand to her, not at all. It is a discredit to her character that she asked that. 1.5) I both liked and was confused by her magical involvement with Daemon and Alys this season. I'm not 100? sure what her objective was purposely zoning in on influencing Him as opposed to any of her other family members during an active war this season, but I was intrigued. (I suppose the argument could be he was the more susceptible to being influenced mystically / magically due to his being at the Harrenhal all season.) 2.) I didn't like the Tyland scenes, they just felt so out of place. Almost like cut scenes from GOT. In the after credits, they said they put them in to "lighten the mood" but I think that is all they were good for. It didn't add to anything we desperately needed to know for the final, and it took away from the wrap up time that could have been used for other plots. I will give them Some Credit they refrained from showing him banging a harem. OG GOT would have definitely shown that. 3.) I'm honestly kind of shocked that Alicent went from my least favorite character going in this season with her becoming my favorite character this season. I'm honestly kind of shocked that they made it such a poignant depiction of a lot of women's deconstruction journeys, myself included tbh. It wasn't perfect, In fact I think some of it was a bit hammered over the head, but poignant none the less. Deconstruction, personal identity re-evaluation, autonomy reclaiming, mixed with power and political struggles makes for a completely enthralling watch on my end. 4.) I also but can't help but be enthralled by Aemond this season. He's just positively dripping with Lovecraftian / eldritch horror imagery and characterization I kind of love it. From his wardrobe, his missing eye and sapphire replacement, brooding nature, darker tendencies and obsessions, slow burn erosion of his more empathetic tendencies, and further falling into monstrous nature. Just Peak Lovecraft. He is almost like a character from another story that just kind of plopped in for the drama, but I mean that in a good way. I'm genuinely bemused and entertained by his side of the stories, even if I don't "like" him as a character. 5.) I've been so determined to continue hating Criston Cole until his dying breathe for all his hypocrisy, so I was annoyed they wanted to throw us a bone and humanize him a bit more this episode. Too little too late! You don't get to try and make me empathize with this donut! lol! Also, I think the implication was that Gwayne found out about the affair through talking with the men while camping and resting. That was what I thought the implication was. He just finally got wind of the gossip while having a sit with the men. overall, I was exasperated by this season's conclusion. If they weren't going to make it 10 episodes, they still needed to manage to wrap things up nicely for the 8 episodes they did have, and honestly overall they didn't deliver. There were still plenty of good parts this season though. The characterization did well overall, even great in some places. But the forward motion of the plot needed a bit brushed up more, yes.
I love moist's take that "this felt a lot like season 7 with teleportation" im pretty sure he was talking about dragonstone to a place 50 miles north of the wall,l, (1500 milesish) vs dragonstone and kings landing, which is like 40 miles away. Charlie has a tendency to be so confident in matters that he has no knowledge in. It's just frustrating
Some are traveling by boat during wartime and they will be in dragonstone->KL->dragonstone in one day and Rhaenyra send Ser Alfred Broome to Harrenhall on E5 and he did arrive on E8
@@petrikallio2485 Game of Thrones season one had Dany somehow marry, conceive a child and give birth in one season. Game of thrones has always had small time jumps between scenes and episodes.
@@J_ads2000 I do understand some part when there is really magic part of it, but its not always and like I pointed that they wrote it good on some part and sometimes they just teleported way too much
Tyland being a comic relief target the entire show then getting invited by Abigail Thorn to have sex with her polycule is the Seven's mercy being done upon him. I really didn't like Lohar (played by a trans women) being introduced as a "he". As a trans woman myself, i would feel INCREDIBLY uncomfortable about that, but I'm waiting to hear what Abigail/writers have to say about it. Loved the dragonseeds, especially Ulf showing Jace is 110% about his fears of giving dragons to unknown riders. The Alicent/Rhaenyra convos should have been saved for next season, when the writers won't have to make excuses for the two women to meet, and they can see just how much they had changed throughout season 2. While the show is still my favorite Lesbian divorce drama, this season was a clear step down.
About the pronouns: That is actually a more interesting question than I thought first. In such an incredibly sexist world, would sticking to „he“ not mean implicitly to retain „male“ agency? And how would transitioning in such an „alien“ world even work? Is it a change of dress, of pronoun, of voice? The book character is addressed as male but likes wearing female clothing.
it's always a mistake to conflate actor/actress and character, as long as it plausibly works anything goes and identity of the former means nothing towards identity of the latter. Cate Blanchett played Bob Dylan in "I'm not there", are you saying that has uncomfortable implications about either one's gender? Rhaenyra is clearly portrayed to be a cis-woman within this very story and there's nothing wrong with Emma d'Arcy portraying that. I guess what they were going for here is a woman who gaslit everyone around to view her as a male so they're willing to follow her. So for the character within story: yes, she positively wants to be viewed as male, that's what makes the sailors follow her into battle.
Alicent's scene with Rhaenyra is complete character assassination and the removal of her last sympathetic traits. And wtf? How is Alicent not being able to sucessfully sell out the life of her son to Rhaenyra count as something going "tragically wrong"? She forced Aegon to be king against his wishes, sabotages and undermines him constantly along the way and then decides to sell his life and that of his brothers to Rhaenyra. She willingly sends her own child to die for something she has done? What horrible forced scene that and their first meeting. They literally spend months together in King's Landing where they could have made all the scenes that they wanted but they couldn't help themselves. And Alicent brilliant plan to save Helaena and her daughter is to put them in the hands of the people who killed Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys whom everyone forgot since Alicent doesn't even bring him up when Rhaenyra demands "a son for a son". The sick part is that the writers talked about as if it was a beautifull moment between them.
i mean, she walks away from him when hes burnt and dying and calling out for her. he is fucked up because she is a bad mother who never liked him. it actually is kinda perfectly in character for her to seek to save herself (and Helana too as she wants some kind of redemption to feel better about what shes caused)
@@xavier84623 how is selling the lives of her children "redemption"? She put them under these circunstances and now she just kills them and calls it redemption? What kind of monster thinks like that? 🤮 And instead of offering her own life she offers the life of her son who now must die for the things SHE did. Sarah Hess is responsible for the worst scenes in this show.
@@masterplokoon8803 yeah she is a monster in many ways, but its also been made clear she kinda views her son as a monster. she is washing her hands of the situation. the actress said in the last episode when she was floating she wanted to be clean, and she was contemplating suicide, THAT is the kind of mental state she is in right now. im not saying her actions are justified, but it make sense for her character imo.
I actually think I would've loved having the dragonseeds be more out of the blue. Out of the three, I think Addam should still have gotten the most screen time so that we could get to know him and Alyn. But Ulf and Hugh? I think it would've been much more fun to go into the sowing not knowing who was going to make it out. I mean it was obvious, even for a series that prides itself on killing off main characters, that those two were going to survive AND claim dragons. Maybe even throw them in as extras in scenes like Aegon going drinking or Hugh seeing Melys head carted into King's Landing, it would be a reward on a rewatch rather than a certainty that takes the viewer out of immersion and gets them thinking of writing and budget constraints.
They ruined Alicent's character. Went from my favorite in S1 to the worst character in the show by far. Ruined Haelena as well. The more I think about it, the more I realize they've ruined every female character in the show. None of them act like real people anymore. Which sucks to see as a female ASOIAF fan, given how incredible the female cast of ASOIAF is. The most likeable character now is Aegon, which is probably unintentional given that the writers went out of their way to make the audience hate him.
I'm still on board with Alicent, and I definitely find Rhaenyra interesting, but I also think this is a fair opinion to have. I'm especially disappointed about Helaena. I had such high hopes
Up to this episode. I thought the season was an 8 out of 10 but the finale dropped the ball pretty hard. Not only was Deamon payoff disappointing. I think they kinda ruined his character to a degree. He’s a believer of destiny and for me. It makes him less interesting. Aemond scenes make him look weak and none threatening. Which maybe is the point? The scenes with Tyland and the leader were bad. The character was not a good actor and ruined each scene. All there scenes were weak or unnecessary... The scene with the Alicent/Rhaenyra. Felt off from a story standpoint point. Felt fanfic for some reason? I don’t know. The whole time I kept saying to myself “no way this is in the book” and from what I understand. It wasn’t. There's a few good scenes but I’m obviously disappointed. Not the worst finale but I would give the episode a 5 and the season a 7. Really hope they pay things of next season but they can't tease any more or hold back.
Sorry to be petty, but it would help your criticisms if you just stated them instead of starting each one off with "I didn't like". There's too much ego in that statement, but your criticisms are fine and fair
7/10 for the season is pretty fair. I was thinking the same, maybe an 8. There were a lot of decisions which I can see a lot of sense behind but just weren't quite executed well enough to be convincing, and warner brothers messed them with 8 episodes. I think they did a pretty solid job considering, but season 1 was better. Here's hoping season 3 gets proper space to be as fulfilling as it definitely can be
I’m most frustrated with the handling of Baela and Rhaena. They are extremely important characters and they’re still so hollow and underdeveloped. My favorites from the book are Nettles, Rhaena, and Baela. Baela is very underdeveloped but still got off better than the other two. To cut Nettles and give Rhaena her plotline only to not give her any lines in the last two episodes feels like an intentional “fuck you.” It seems that my favorite dragon has been cut too!
Based on the show runner's take in interviews, I 100% believe the 8 episodes was due to meddling/writer's strike, and they had planned (and would have preferred) a 10 episode season. Due to that, I applaud them for not squishing 10 episodes worth into 8, and instead keeping the pace. It may have left the "ending" feeling a little light, but honestly I loved every minute of it. We got a good amount of payoff (Daemon and Alicent particularly, and even Cole's last scene really brought a lot around). I'm perfectly happy with the entire season and can't wait for season 3.
Daemon's arc felt like a bit of a waste of time to me. Your take on it I actually appreciate since I didn't really think about him not liking the quibbling lords... I wish he'd gone for that lol. Vision-Viserys could be like "you never had to speak with the Riverlords. I kept peace in the realm on the edge of a knife. Rhaenyra has the finesse, you don't." Instead he's like "In this story called Fire and Blood--I mean, in the prophecy, I am supposed to support you. I will fill that role now." and what vision-Halaena told him... Idk, felt very contrived.
Agreed with how much the other character arcs are already trimmed so much. Wish we got more of the Cregan Stark and Jace arc in Winterfell Edit: I love your psych analysis of characters videos! it satisfies my game of thrones/house of the dragon craving in between seasons!
I rewatched the whole season the day of the finale (although skipped a few scenes because I wouldn't finish by ep8 release otherwise), and I still found it mostly enjoyable even knowing a few things were a bit.. odd? Later on. The dialogue and everything still feels great after what happened to GoT post season 4, and the almost all the characters feel great, I think I simply would've cut some particular scenes here and there, namely a few of the Daemon dreams (the Viserys ones were the goood shit, but a lot of the prior ones didnt need to exist, like the mom one or Daemon One Eyed) maybe a few of the Hull brother scenes (they almost all add up to "I dun want it," bit redundant), some of those. Obviously some of the other issues are more fundamental, like the shorter season, I definitely would've loved to see the Dragonseeds a little more in action after such a good episode last week, but oh well I guess. The stage is definitely set for the war to be full scale for the next season, so that's some relief, but man it's gonna suck to have to wait 2 more years ;_;
The Tyland scene went on too long and hurts Ottos story and gave an gluttonous cameo to a youtube personality. The character themselves is hardly important does one thing and then disappears from the story.
I think you hit the nail on the head with my problem is with Daemons arc, I also would have preferred he reached the same point without the need of a vision to all of a sudden tell him what is the right thing to do or him loosing aspects of his chaotic edge that made him who he was in season 1. I also do get especially worried when writers crack out the destiny future everything is predetermined plot device as it tends to strip characters of their original agencies that made feel tangible and it seems to also transform a brutal war story caused by bickering nobles effecting the smallfolk and beginning the end of the Targaryen dynasty to a story about saving the world and stopping those who are opposing it ie. Aemond. Rhaenyra feels a bit dull in my opinion compared to season 1 Rhaenyra and it does feel like through the writers trying to make her downfall being tied to the prophecy that it has stripped her of the dynamics she had when she was more morally grey. I don't like the fact that they made her more into a moral paragon compared to her book counterpart, but that's just my book related dislike. Aemond I feel they were handling well for segments of the Season 2 after they built him so well up in season 1, but it does feel like the writers due to possibly the pacing cuts, they have made him jump into a more impulsive and uncontrolled figure head in the span of an episode. Just compare how he acts in episode 5 to episode 6 and then the jump into the actions he takes in episode 8. The show wants to make him into the central villain, but they have jumped the leg work to fully transform him into this remorseless maniac, who just doesn't listen. Alicent has had her character essentially run through the mud and she only serves a point to be made a hypocrite for the audience, well she flipflops between trying to care for her family and whether or not she just wants to undermine them or just betray them. Criston has been getting a lot of screen time, but it no longer feels like he is an active player for the greens, rather just someone whos is following their orders to his death, with no resistance or plans of his own. The green faction as a whole, I can't even call the green faction anymore. Alicent is clearly no longer on their side and is willing to throw all of them under the bus, Helena is like a passive observer who doesn't even play a part in the group, Aegon is incapacitated and is working on his own with Larys, Criston Cole just became someone who is passively walking towards his death and Otto is in jail for some reason. All this just leaves Aemond as the main figure head of the greens, and really the only person currently directly opposing Rhaenyra and the blacks. This no longer feels like the blacks vs the greens, but the blacks vs Aemond and his army.
I enjoyed the episode. My only negative thought was that I really could've done without Tyland Lannister and the Triarchy. I would've like to see more of Jace with Cregan Stark and ANY of Jace with Lady Jeyne Arryn in the first episode of Season 2.
I really feel the “missing episodes” but overall, despite the feeling of *something is missing* this season has made me feel wonder, excitement, anxiety. it’s made me feel like rhaenera is “justified” and then horrified in that feeling. It’s really wonderful. Seeing her with the dragons last episode, even seeing the boats and hearing her theme, I totally got indoctrinated! Even with aegon, I found myself questioning what I can forget, how charisma makes me less upset, how “evil” may not be so black and white, questioning why I think the way I think about these characters. Overall I think there’s so much potential for the future seasons!
Firstly, I love your videos. My take: everyone doesn’t deserve main character energy or fully formed character archs. The fact that we want this means that all of the characters are compelling. To me, the show is written much like the source material; all is not fully formed and we are left to fill in the pieces as we would. “History” as we know it full of facts AND conjecture. we’re forced to do the same with this story and these characters. I’m satisfied by it. Also.. TYROD.. his name is TYROD. Period 😂😂😂
In a lot of ways, yeah although you still need enough characters to have reached an end of an arc in order for it to feel like a complete season. Some had them, but not enough for me personally
I think it’s safe to say that the general consensus is that it’s a good episode 8 of 10, except there’s no 9 and 10 so therefore it’s disappointing. But I wouldn’t say bad.
Daemon showed growth before touching the weirwood tree his convos w alys showed how he’s more opening to listening and taking counsel then just taking action, asking for help, etc
My bf and I didn’t even realize it was the season finale. I thought it would be 10 episodes, but when it showed the “making of the show” clip at the end I was like NO WAY THATS THE FINALE?! I just feel like they’re stretching it out… but of course they are. The prophecy clip was neatly done but it really was like oh ok… so… Daemons just totally changed now? Hmm. His whole Harrenhal story was so boring. While I do feel Rhaenyra does deserve the crown “legally,” I don’t feel like she’s anywhere close to queen material. Rhaenys would have totally been the one to do it. What a badass.
I enjoyed Season 2 personally. Don’t really understand the fuss. Maybe the younger generations that seem outraged about trivial matters need to learn to appreciate the fact that there is entertainment on this scale at all. Thank you for your thoughtful videos.
alicent teleporting between kings landung and deagonstone is also pure stupidity. it took weeks for rhaeneyra previously to travel to kings landing to meet her.
Rhaenyra is not allowed to be a character, as simple as that She needs to be the feminist icon held back by the patriarchy, so she is not allowed to behave like a human and get consequences She needs to be a saint that doesn't want bloodshed, but her waiting to act is not framed as bas because the ones complaining about that are the evil patriarchy men that are agaist her because she's a woman (despite supporting her as the queen, I guess they forgot that part) She complains about having no knowledge of war because of the patriarchy, but she can't listen to the council because that would mean for her to listen to the men, despite them being there for that exact reason, but listens to mysaria that only validates her Nobody will ever ask her why she didn't bother to lear about war strategy or politics despite her being named heir as a kid
Subscribed ! Finally, someone giving their own thoughts on the episode instead of just repeating what we all saw and sprinkling in a few details from the book
You don't know that. Just because it was that long between 1 and 2 doesn't mean it will be that long between 2 and 3. GOT had long waits between seasons too. These shows aren't 30 min sitcoms you can film in a studio is Burbank!
@@carastone3473Game of Thrones put out a season every year between 2011-2019 except for 2018 so this long wait only happened once. House of the Dragon season three is starting preproduction in early 2025, we are not getting the season until 2026 at the earliest.
Daemon seeing the coming Winter/Walkers etc seemed like such a cop out to me We had a whole season's arc of him slowly learning and evolving, only to unnecessarily Deus Ex Machina it at the end so we know FOR SURE hes now on Rhaenyras side, instead of letting him continue to be occasionally grey, and/or taking the time to expore why Rhaenyras queenship now becomes his main goal It cheapens his entire arc, and noone is going to remember his slow growth. Instead it becomes your boring stock standard story 'I didnt believe it, then i saw it via magic, now i agree with your interpretation of it wholeheartedly' If he had just had a White Walker Dragon dream at the begininng of the season, sulked about it for a bit, then come around would it have been any different?
It feels to me as though they may have straight up made episodes nine and ten of this season into episodes one and two of next season. Of course I'm speculating, and It's probably not that simple. But, as you said yourself, it seems like they've just moved this season's climax into the beginning of season three, instead of compressing the story to fit better within eight episodes. And I'm definitely happy about that. I think the way this season handled its lack of episodes was probably the right choice in the long run. However, in the short term, it does leave season 2 feeling like a mere step in the journey. I'm hoping the whole thing will play better in context, once said context actually exists. Also, I have to say that the people claiming Alicent's character has been "assassinated" really confuse me. Alicent, a historically distant and detached mother, being willing to sacrifice Aegon's life for her own escape, after a season of becoming disillusioned with her sons and the patriarchal power structure she's been upholding, is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the level of Jamie, without any probable motive, in a nonchalant tone, retroactively saying he never much cared for something he explicitly always cared for lol. People keep saying that Alicent's love for her children has been a defining part of her character and... has it? Her most notable moment of loyalty to her children in my memory is her defense of Aemond after he loses his eye. But I think that had just as much to do with her resentment toward Rhaenyra's family as it did with her genuine care for her son. I think of her, generally, as always having been a pretty shit parent--certainly WANTING to be loving but often failing to even understand her children. But, who knows, my opinion could just be bad, I guess. Anyhow, if Alicent's conclusion this season didn't work for some people, I get it. That's a totally fair element to question. But man people are being reductive and hyperbolic about it.
It's interesting how the opinion on the length of the season is split. Many people are saying it should have been 10 eps & was rushed, others are saying they padded it & it dragged & could have been shorter. 🤔
I feel like so much could have been solved, even with the obvious budgetary issues they encountered, with a simple scene of all the dragonriders approaching an important farmstead/civic center and you show the queen or her son performing a burning pass, their faith resolute, and then it ends on the indecision of hugh, alyn and ulf at least we'd be concretely left with the important cliffhangers...it could be a 4m segment. so shocking the episode felt like it had filler too. nuts.
I think it had a lot to do with BUDGET- if HBO won’t cough up the money for the plot point battles, they have to wait for the Season 3 check. Sad but true.
Ya know who else didn’t give a satisfying climax at the end of their most recent release and moved the climactic stuff to the start of the next installment? George! I think people are getting way too upset about the ending when GRRM did kinda the same thing with ADWD
Which also annoyed me although, to be fair, the main characters still reached the end point for most of their arcs in that books, so I don't think it was quite as bad. Not the proper endpoints, I should say, but ones that still mostly worked
This show is single-handedly making the case for why women shouldn’t be rulers…. Except Rhaenys. And Dany in GOT was a good leader until she lost in season 8. Rhaenyra and Alicent are just indecisive and emotional and slow to act and they spend too much time complaining about the fact that they’re women instead of using the advantages that being a woman provides. Cersei was good at that. She made her gender her strength and used it to get what she wanted different ways
Nice. Good analysis. I think you lay the blame at the feet of the proper contributors for the shows shortcomings, but also kind of tackle it from the point of reality that like, any adaptation will have to make certain changes because it’s a different medium for storytelling, so sometimes it’s kind of choosing what’s the better choice between a number of bad options for faithful adaptation and one that’s creatively independent and works with what it has? Yeah. It sucked that it feels like studio problems and lack of confidence led to a really great season sort of being cut off at the ankles, if you know what I mean. Anyways, great video as always!😊
Funnily enough, I think Daemon would be a far better ruler than Rhaenyra. A good king isn't necessarily a nice guy. Rhaenyra has continually shown poor judgement, a complete lack of duty, and an unwillingness to take decisive action.
I think what’s wild to me is how much more enjoyable is is without listening to any of the “after show”. My personal interpretations and others interpretations of scenes I thought made more sense. But definitely also agree, it felt like a pretty good episode 8… for a 10 episode season. As a finale it left so much off, HBO is really letting people down by trimming the budgets for shows that NEED big budgets.
It felt like Season 2 ended at the end of episode 4 and the build up for Season 3 was the remaining 4 episodes. Why drag us through H-hal that many episodes? Why have young R chasing Sheepstealer ALL this time? Literally, all her scenes in the finale are only seconds at a time and zero dialogue. We get it--she WANTS this dragon. 🙄 And Otto Hightower, just randomly in some box with bars? How? How did anyone agree that writing and editing was acceptable? And Alicent's brother just rolling up on C. Cole cause he's whiffing A's handkercheif. I had to rewind three times on this show, thinking I missed a scene somewhere. It was bizarre, to say the least.
I disagree in this way: I think character development (and arcs) were done, achieved and maybe overdone, at the expense of plot development. It is the plot that did not progress much.
Even though some scenes were boring like Daemon in Harrenhall, Baella at Vale or underwhelming like Blood and Cheese. I was okay with them. The scene I genuinely disliked was Alicent and Rhaenyra's finale interaction, it felt forced and idiotic. It felt like they wrote that long scene with two great actresses to try to win an Emmy rather than moving the plot naturally and make sense for characters to do and say things written for that scene. I can understand Alicent wanting the freedom after camping in King's Woods but it doesn't make sense that she agreed to make sacrifice of her sons to protect her and Haelena and stop unnecessary bloodshed in Kingslanding. Neither she is fully commiting to protect her family, nor she is being righteous enough and ready to face consequences of her actions which started the war. Again why is she so worried about saving lives of common folk all of sudden over her sons. I get the idea of Alicent asking for mercy but there are better ways to do that scene. My idea is if they wanted to develop Alicent's character to make her look changed and better person. The camping trip could have been shorter and she instead spends a couple of days with the smallfolk in KL. Her interaction with poor people suffering the effects of war could have been a better driving force to take such risky decision to visit Dragonstone. She could come across Rhaenyra's maid in the King's landing and force her to help arrange a meeting with Rhaenyra discussing terms of surrender. This makes a lot more sense than randomly knocking the castle at Dragonstone and uses the theme of commonfolk lives matter better.
Great video as always! I don't know if you have watched it or not, but I think you would get a lot out of The Bear - a psychological breakdown of Carmy would make for an amazing video!
Season was absolutely fine. We got so used to GoT that we crave hype and action all the time but it's a different show. If GoT never existed and people watched this on their its merits, no one would be complaining. Not even early GoT had finales were amazing btw. I trust HotD. That ending with the music change during the marches was incredible though
I love your videos and I wish you would have done interview with the vampire instead. Your analysis of those characters would have been really interesting and honestly it’s a superior show that deserves the attention. It’ll be on Netflix this month in the US so I think more people will watch.
Im so tired of people saying the series was too slow, it was all build up. There's nothing wrong with that. I am so stoked for next season and that's because of the work put in this season.
@@Tupadre97 your right, nothing happened, just a child beheaded, the most wonderful woman in the world dying on dragon back, prince's trying to murder there brother to be king, multiple war crimes, twins killing each other. But again, your right, nothing happened.
I think stuff definitely happened, and I agree about that, but it doesn't mean it had a complete arc. A season still needs enough satisfying payoff. You can cliffhangers on plot points but arc wise, you need some sense of a cycle completing and I personally don't think there's quite been enough
i feel like season 2 had so many great individual scenes but was stitched together haphazardly, like the opposite of "greater than the sum of its parts". i do wonder how much of this would be fixed if it had two more episodes. as many have been saying, it does read like ep 8 out of 10 instead of a proper finale.
Damon has never been a serious candidate for the Iron Throne. Even he said it was dragons, not dreams, who made them conquerors. He and his one dragon versus the Greens and their what, 3-4 dragons? He and his one dragon versus Rhaenyra and her little dragon army? He would have been a moron to even attempt to take the throne by himself which is why his reaffirmation of his allegiance to Rhaenyra was fuckin’ pointless to me and didn’t hit nearly as hard as when he gave his crown to Viserys.
They zoomed in on the wrong ideas and plot points and spent less time on things that mattered. I don't need another woe is me Alicent scene. Develop the riverlands armies. Stop cutting jaces plot and giving it to other characters. Dont tell me about Daeron introduce him. The harrnehal plot could've been a two episode arc but they really meandered about.
This is definitely the best episode 8 review that I have seen so far, as it seems that many people seem unable to grasp what is going on with the characters or which things tie together. Yes, the episode was disappointing - but only by HotD standards and because episode 7 was really good and this is the last one. I think you've hit the nail on the head with blaming the decision to only make 8 episodes because some things would have needed more time to breathe, such as Ulf going from a zero to an utter dick mode - sure, he just got a dragon, but I don't think the ingrained respect to the crowned heads and nobility would have evaporated so quickly. What I do blame the writers for, though, is having Alicent's brother charge Criston in front of the whole camp, Rhaena walking off on her own without anyone missing her or looking for her, and the highly dubious way of Orville getting Alicent to Dragonstone, especially after Aemond ordered all ships to be searched. I mean, Mysaria getting a disguised Rhaenyra to King's Landing was already stretching it but it could have worked; now it was very apparently a plot device to get a parallel scene to their first encounter. The scene itself _was_ written well, I just wish they took care to explain how Alicent managed to get there (perhaps take the book detail about Aegon being smuggled from the KL under a heap of fish, since they took a different course for him and Larys, it would demonstrate even better how desperate she is).
12:00 Tyland negotiating with the Triarchy to deal with the blockade is a legitimate plot hole. It's not just a gap in the story, it's an actual failure of logical story progression. It makes no sense... because of the blockade. How does he even get to Essos? They spent the whole season making the blockade a major plot point, and it is clearly a significant obstacle the Greens have no easy answer for. In order to bypass it, Tyland has to go to some other port to find a ship, and one that is friendly to the Greens at that. Maidenpool is the closest unblockaded port, but is aligned with the Blacks, so it's out. So is Gulltown in the Vale, for the same reason. The only other option I can think of that isn't too far away to be viable is Weeping Town, in the Stormlands. Possibly Storm's End, which does have a small dock, but Shipbreaker Bay is called that for a reason. Everything else is significantly further, and Weeping Town isn't exactly convenient, either, considering the distance from King's Landing and several significant geographic barriers in the way. Aemond states at the beginning of episode 6 that it is a fortnight's march from King's Landing to Harrenhal; he dispatches both Criston Cole and Tyland in the same scene. Harrenhal is relatively close to King's Landing, but by the end of episode 8, Cole, Gwayne, and their troops are still on the march, suggesting that the two weeks have not yet passed. In order for Tyland to get around the blockade, he has to go much further to find a ship (half as much again if he sails from Storm's End, twice as far from Weeping Town), and then make the actual sea passage to Tyrosh, finish the negotiations, and set sail on the return trip all in the same span of time, which utterly beggars belief. Instead, he apparently simply teleports there because the writers need plot to happen, because they locked Otto Hightower (who handles all the negotiations with the Triarchy by letters in the book) in a cell for some reason. And, because Tyland is sailing with the Triarchy fleet on the return... well, I suppose it'll be interesting to see how the writers manage to get him back to King's Landing in time for other plot things to happen. Remember when this world felt really big because the geography and the distances involved imposed limitations on the movement of characters and affected how the story played out? I do. I miss that.
Hello. I made a comment when this video first came out. Not that I have a point to make. I mean I’m talking to a bunch of people I’ll never meet. I just wanted to say, I thought this was episode eight of two more episodes we were going to get lol. I looked for episode nine yesterday and was like oh… wow. So that was it? My excitement was predicated entirely on the promise of two more episodes down the road haha. More or less, I’m sharing this for the sake of enjoying the laugh I had. No validation goals or anything. I love this creator, but that’s not what it’s about either. I literally just wanted to say that I died laughing when I found out episode eight was the last of this season. I really expected eight to be a set up for two amazing final episodes. Wow. Talk about going from a magic carpet ride to missing the rug entirely…
I really hope that the show creators did this on purpose to stick it to WB for cutting their budget. This show is a once in a career opportunity to make and if they do the fans dirty by cutting so much content just to move quicker and put out less episodes… they’re not going to do the story justice. I really hope that WB learns a lesson from this disappointing finale.
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I don’t know if you’re being paid off or worried about out getting people mad but sorry, the rhaenyra scene at t the end totally destroyed the show. Nobody is mad about “big battles” so stop gaslighting in defense on this terrible writing. Why would kings landing blame the king for rhaenyras blockade? Cmon
@@Marlboro-lights1 I'm not quite sure why a difference of opinion means I'm being paid off, or why I'm gaslighting, I've seen plenty of comments, even on my own videos, talking about the need for battles. Although even then, my point isn't the need for a battle anyway, it's the need for a climactic event at the end of the season that can a) tie all the disparate stories together and b) properly conclude people's arcs. I too have a lot of issues with the writing, hence the title of the video, but I also consider things to be more nuanced than either terrible in every way, or faultless. The end kinda sort of works specifically for Alicent's arc, but not much else. There's some sense to what they were thinking, but that doesn't mean it works
Thank you for making this video I've been saying this since the second episode of the first season that on a production storytelling level this show is absolutely confused the characters are always randomly emoting at inappropriate times the storyboard is all over the place like they want to keep the story a secret even though they're trying to tell you a story that's so important that you're not even allowed to know. I think Damon Targaryen should have been played by Gordon Ramsay LOL but yeah I'm into the Arts and this show as a piece of art is absolute garbage @@mylittlethoughttree
Pretty please do the Baldurs gate 3 characters or Netflix Arcane. They have a lot of complex depth 😊
This genuinely felt like episode 8 of 10 episode season. It’s like they just decided to stop right there and not show the last two and save them for next season.
According to behind the scenes that’s exactly what happened. Instead of rewriting the entire script for the season, they kept it the same and just cut out the last two episodes where a battle would have been and the fall of King’s Landing
@@berserk4souls HBO called Ryan Condal a few weeks before production began on what had been assumed to be up until then a 10 episode season. Three months later, the writers strike forced them to cancel any rewrite plans because they couldn't contractually change the scripts without the writers in the room.
@@Vivy-f1t HBO would say that to cover their ass. Condal explained his side of the story in the official GoT podcast
@@Vivy-f1t They work for HBO, though. You’re not supposed to go around criticising your employers and making them look bad if you want to keep your job.
@@Vivy-f1t At this point, though, any damage has already been done. And has his words been directly accusatory? Because saying “we were told to shorten the season” after the season is finished is different than directly rebutting a statement made by a spokesperson before the season came out.
everyone forgot about Jaehaerys lmfao
And Daeron
@johanwestin3030 that was a grandson, & Daeron was "technically" in the episode riding Tessarion. The true crime is Maelor the Missing
The dead baby? Did you want more of them crying over him?
@@caseyw.6550Yes, especially considering his death was the 'Son for a Son'
Do you understand how narratives work?
@thomaswillard6267 But Rhaenyra never wanted anything bad to happen to that baby. That was all Daemon. Why would she feel satisfied with that outcome? Jeahaerys wasn't Alicent's son. Now she has to CHOOSE to let her son die. Rhaenyra lost a son, and now Alicent should.
It's incredible how strong WB's catalog is and how badly they manage it all.
Mannnn why is everyone so insufferable, if you don't like the show then just don't watch it, it's not that hard
@@yylfordt6125
Brother he’s not saying the show is bad or that he dislikes it or that the writing is bad. He’s simply saying that more than anything the producers who have the final say on the product did this season a lot more harm than good. As it’s obvious season 2 is good, but not without its flaws. Very few people are actually saying season 2 was bad, but that rather that it suffered from some obvious and avoidable issues in both story telling and writing, mostly because it was made very clear to us that this season was meant to be 10 episodes instead of 8. And the seasons suffers from the lack of its proper conclusion in the 10 episodes that were cut down to 8.
TLDR: he’s not saying it’s bad and he doesn’t like it, he’s saying it’s good and he likes it but it suffers from some very clear and avoidable issues.
@@yylfordt6125I get that this is a strange notion to the people who lack nuance;
You can like something, while also being critical of it.
There, I said it, I let the cat out of the bag
@armorpiercing3277 I wasn't necessarily targeting him. I just hate that literally EVERY video/podcast about epusode 8 everyone is just shitting on it so much... & not appreciating it.
@@yylfordt6125 Well MAYBE bad things need to get called out, and vocally so, so that things can improve. Why should the audience let things slide just because some people see SOME good in it? If you set the bar low, we will continue getting mediocre crap. That's literally the system and relationship between creator/consumer that keeps the marketplace moving forward. I think in this situation it's YOU who has to learn that you can personally enjoy something while it is OBJECTIVELY bad and while people call it what it is.
i think alicent's characterization/arc was handled horrendously this season. she went from putting aegon on the throne for the sake of protecting her children to selling him out at the chance of running away with helaena... it's just confusing because i didn't get self serving motivations at all from her in season 1. maybe elements of self preservation, but that was completely erased this season. i thought she loved her boys despite how terrible they are? you just can't convince me this is the same woman who charged at the heir to the throne with a dagger infront of everybody to stand up for her son... i don't know who this imposter is it's not my alicent
You have to remember scene structure, Alicent begins the scene with a focus on her freedom before bringing up Heleana, meaning that by the end Alicent's most important thing is herself and Heleana is secondary
@@guerreiroazul3230 i can appreciate where alicent is by ep 8 and it does make sense, but my problem is HOW she got there. from the start of the season there were just a lot of things written that was inconsistent with her characterization and where we left her in season 1, that in itself made her a less believable character to me. moving forward her arc feels incredibly rushed and half-hearted, just didn't seem like an organic progression to me
Yeah. As someone whose been team green from the get go, it’s really disappointing to see her character devolve like this.
I read an article that basically said the whole of the show is like a love story between Alicent and Rhaynera 🤦🏾
“you just can’t convince me this is the same woman who charged at the heir to the throne with a dagger in front of everybody to stand up for her son”
well duh…it’s almost like we got an entire season of character progression where alicent goes through deep self reflection wherein she realizes that all the values she upheld and defined her identity by have amounted to absolutely nothing but the eventual destruction of her entire family. i do admit the writing has been a bit clunky at times (plot wise) but emotionally, narratively, the themes are there. so to say that her characterization has been inconsistent or horrendous is not only grossly reductive but also foolishly laughable.
I describe Ulf as a morally ambiguous Peter Griffin.
Gets a dragon and first he he does is try to fly back to the clam to show the fellas his dragon.
"Hehehehehehehehehehe"
He reminds me of Ricky Gervais. 🤣
Hey Lois, remember that time I became a dragon-rider from Queen Rhaenyra?
I was seriously wondering if I missed something when I saw Otto
I said "who's that" out loud I literally didn't recognize him at first too, that took me out
so... was he captured? Is he just riding along? what the hell... is he hurt?
@@bashfulpanda2596 that was soooo random bro
@@ModMax69 Maybe he'd been taking a nap on the journey and that was a shot of him just waking up. That's what I look like before coffee.
Same way we all missed Aemond seeing the three dragons at Dragonstone before turning around. Poor filming.
they literally had an entire plot at winterfell they could’ve done something with but instead we got mud wrestling, daemon having an acid trip, and alicent looking sad. lmaooo
Oh.. and let's not forget a girl wandering around to possibly get a wild dragon they really don't need now to win the war....
if they did what youre suggesting you would have raged, the things that werent in this season were excised because 8 episodes can barely tell this story, let alone a greater one. you dont *have* to comment on things.
I read the book. How would Jace romancing Cregan Stark's half-sister have helped move the main story along?
@@tasha7726 Yeah, I don't see anything at Winterfell which would have needed telling right now, either. The only important part, the army of the North crossing at the Twins, we got.
Daemon spending a whole season"learning" he did not want a crown when it was perfectly portrayed on S1
And to take his agency away to make him a pawn of the prophecy makes him plain boring
I think Matt Smith’s acting did a lot of heavy lifting. He really sold me on the arc of a guy who keeps taking big swings, kind of missing, and then, in a way that’s very unlike most of the other characters, going “Hmm, maybe I’m actually fucking up here.” It’s sort of there in the writing, but he makes a few performance choices that really help glue it together for me.
@@d.f.4830 Matt Smith is carrying so hard with Daemon's character. Imagine if he wasn't so likeable in addition to a butchered storyline
Matt Smith is really good at making me wonder, “is he about to kiss ___ right now?” about pretty much every scene partner he’s had this season lol
@@Neddoest the answer being “hopefully”
But that's the idea... His scenes were clearly written for him to shine as an actor. And he totally did.
I legitimately laughed out loud when it cut to the end credits.
lol, I dropped the dish I was washing and screamed OH HALE NO. ARE YOU FVCKING KIDDING ME! Scared my dog. Man I was pissed. Canceled immediately 🎉
I yelled GODDAMNIT!!!!
I fucking KNEW they'd pull some bullshit like this!!!! Where was fucking Craigen Stark?!
the thing is....that daemon "motivation" they gave him wasn't even real....just now in an interview condal said daemon doesn't really know what he's seeing (in terms of the song of ice and fire), so what was the point?
I've said it previously but it feels like nothing that happens on this show has consequences, which is the same problem later seasons of GoT had
I think people are too quick to conclude that the audience is complaining for the lack of action, when what we are complaining about is the lack of substance
and we come back to the infamous d&d quote of "creatively it made sense because we wanted it to happen" which is literally what condal and hess have been saying in many interviews, just different wording
The prophecy feels for me like a quick fix after losing two episodes. I felt the end point was naturally going to be Aemond does something that calls Daemon to action, and that becomes the moment he decides to back Rhaenyra, however when there's no longer space for that kind of action seen, you need something else to conclude his arc...and what we got was the prophecy
Good take!
I really thought season 2 would end with them taking kings landing and sitting on the throne then season 3 would open up with the aftermath of all that
That's exactly what I thought. I haven't read the book but I strongly felt that's what it was all building up to
Miguel Sapochnik's absence was felt quite a bit this season, his departure clearly hurt the show, I'm surprised how little people talk about it.
Did it though? He didn't write the show, the writers are mostly the same.
I certainly noticed the lack of camera-f*ing of his wife in the middle of random scenes, and the fact that the majority of the scenes were actually visible in this season, other than that I'm not sure how the man responsible for GoT S8E3's departure hurt the show.
@@thomaswillard6267 I think what we have here is correlation, but we don't have causation evidenced.
We know, that he left and the show is suddenly much worse.
However, we also have writers strikes and budget/episode cuts.
The important thing is that season 2 has lost the sauce, and they need to step it up majorly to fix season 3 and onwards, now we only have 16 episodes to wrap up the whole show especially.
@@CanadishI don’t think it’s been confirmed the number of episodes per season for the next two.
@@landonluebke7627 Unless the reaction to this season reaches the C-suite suits and it's negative - they don't care and will keep things at 8 episodes to keep things cheap.
That's how the business works.
Really? I thought Sapochnik was one of the worst things about Game of Thrones. And he was mostly responsible for directing and all the massive battles.
Your HotD reviews have been my favorite on youtube. You articulate the psychological state of the characters so well and you've nailed so many of the issues I've had with the tone and character arcs. It sucks that a season with so much potential was so screwed over by network greed with the episode cuts and being forced to film during the strike :(
This episode was incredibly frustrating. Alicent's character was thoroughly assassinated. Rhaenyra wastes time with more waffling and hypocritical behavior. Daemon's character development was overwritten by compliancy to prophecy, cheapening his whole arc. Corlys accomplishes a grand total of nothing and effectively shrugged off his wife's death. Jaehaerys' death seems to have been forgotten. Sunfyre is dead? Nobody in the Vale cares that Rhaena ran off and is wandering the mountains. And, of course, what possessed the writers to think that not one, but two scenes of Rhaenyra and Alicent smuggling themselves into the heart of enemy territory was ok? If it's that easy, one Faceless Man could solve this entire war in an afternoon. What a mess.
I'll give the season some benefit of the doubt due to the writer's strikes, but seriously, this episode did a ton of damage to the show and compounded all the existing issues with Season 2. The bad does not wash out the good, but man, the torrent of bad towards the end of the season was very hard to swallow.
I genuinely need to ask. What was Alicents character to you before this? I keep seeing people say her character was assassinated and honestly I just don't see it so I'm really curious as to what you thought of her before this
Her character perfectly reached where is I assume needs to end. The symbolism in the last 3 seconds of the episode is perfect.
Faceless men have never been introduced in this series. This happened 200 years before GOT. Were they even around then? Genuine question. It's always been odd to me how there are 2 centuries between the 2 shows, and you would literally never be able to tell. People assume (rightfully) that culture/society hasn't changed or evolved in 200 years...because it doesn't appear that it has.
@@caseyw.6550 According to Fire and Blood and The World of Ice and Fire there are rumors of Faceless Men being used in the time of Aegon I's conquest, so yes, they should be present. The Faceless Men claim their origins trace back to the slaves of Valyria. They could be lying, of course, but if true the Faceless Men have been around for a very long time. And since this show has tied itself to GOT with the Daenerys cameo the Faceless Men should exist in HOTD's continuity as well.
@@OkMakuTree i agree.
this season gave me D&D vibes and I got triggered seeing those dollar store white walkers!!!
I’ve genuinely appreciated your fairness when covering this series. I feel like modern audiences see people like Ryan and Sara who are in the limelight (and are legally contracted to promote the show), and blame everything they dislike about a show on them; but there’s an entire studio that all of their choices have to go through first before the show can even be filmed. I agree this season has been slow in building character arcs but I also would so much rather they take their time than cram everything into eight episodes. I really wish they would’ve been allowed to have ten. 😩 All’s well though. It was a fun series while it lasted and I’m looking forward to seeing more of your coverage.
I was annoyed about what they did with Rhaena in the last episode. She had at most like 60 seconds worth of screen time and it was spread out throughout the episode. With how little they were showing her I thought by the end we would see her try to claim the dragon. And even though it’s not a very important storyline at this point I was expecting something more climactic than what we got
It's funny because I recorded the whole audio for this, and only when editing the video did I realise I had completely forgotten to mention her. Her story was so absent that I completely forgot 😂
I think this season really suffers by not having Otto or someone similar involved. Scheming, plotting and manipulation is so central to the GOT universe and it is almost non existent this season. Its missing intelligence in that sense, characters whose intricate actions drive the story forward. Most characters came across as aimless, felt much more like they were there to serve the plot, not to drive the plot forward. They felt very reactionary, not proactive if that makes sense
The problem is that they wanted this to be a story of Rhaenyra vs Alicent. Fine but then they have to have agency... they must make decisions to move the story forward. To play the game of thrones you must be ruthless, cunning, duplicitous, aggressive... you know all the things that Ned Stark did not do. This is why GoT was better, because they made Ned the protagonist in S1 of GoT and they made him honorable, just, trusting... and he loses his head for it. They are trying to do the same thing with Rhaenyra and Alicent but not have the same consequences Ned faced. Cersei told Ned, "When you play the game of thrones, you win, or you die. There is no middle ground."
That foreshadowed what would happen to Ned because he didn't follow that advice. The writers are trying to write the game of thrones without there being actual consequences for Alicent and Rhaenyra.
Yes, this season didn't have intelligent, cunning behavior typical of GOT. It made me appreciate season 1 Otto a lot more
Yes, but Ned is not a 'stunning and brave' feminist icon etc etc.
Seems like the script is another victim of ideology being pushed ahead of narrative.
I mean your criticism are valid in themselves but clearly you missed the mark on Ned's character and his role in overarching narrative but then again this is one point that the show GOT failed at as an adaptation. The books do actually validate Ned as you progress through the books.
By making the female characters all "good and self-righteous", they are actually alienating female fans (like me) who love female characters like cersei, olenna, catelyn, arya, arianne, brienne, daenerys, and so many, many more. they all have unique personalities, motivations, and REAL agency. they just don't say men bad, they actually do things that are impactful, and not by "accidents". in hotd they're just the same. Men make war, men bad, we women are good while actually doing NOTHING.
Were you just born this stupid or fashioned into it after watching reviewers like this guy? I doubt you have the critical thinking skills and self reflection to truly know.
With 2 more episodes they could’ve so easily had the battle of the gullet, and then rhaenyra take the throne; and the season would’ve been excellent. It’s so obvious there’s a budget issue or that HBO forced them to cut the season.
HBO said 8 episodes, the creators asked for 10. I think/suspect that the writers strike might be why but who knows. IMO they did the right choice to not rush the season to fit in a large battle but this feels almost like a 2a and that at least part of season 3 will be like 2b. I will always support unions so can't complain too much that people asked for a liveable wage and better job security so just have to hope that season 3 is better and that Duncan Egg might be a good substitute in-between
they wrote for 10, got forced to make 8 and were in a strike and couldnt rewrite or edit at all.
@@zombie45611 have you ever watched the first "Penny Dreadful" series on Showtime? (The one with Eva Green, not the one with Natalie Dormer.)
It basically suffered from the same problem, with the lead writer also apparently getting tired of the project ... but unfortunately they did their worst with the final season, and the results were absolutely atrocious.
After that, this seems like nothing. But I do hope it doesn't bode bad tidings for the rest of the show!
@@rhaenatargaryen8061 and yet it’s still a disappointment. I don’t care if God himself descended from the heavens and prohibited filming. Prequel to a top 3 show of all time and ANY of ASOIF media carries an expected standard of quality, and they have failed to live up to it. Nothing will change that. (*I will now gladly cancel my max subscription for another 24+ months waiting for the war they’ve teased since 2022 to hopefully be depicted in season 3 in actual 10 episode format with proper funding, pacing, and lore accurate characters*).
Would've been excellent? What is that even based on? The season has been mostly disappointing so far. What would another episode or two have added? This season has far more issues than just the fact that they had only 8 episodes and the finale was not what people expected or wanted.
I think one of my personal biggest gripes is that I - me as a viewer and it maybe subjective - never see the horror of war.
There was obviously Cole's and Aemond's trap and that was good, but a) it was also kinda "badass" and "epic" and I feel like this goes somewhat against the message, granted it is an inherent flaw with dragons in the show and b) we didn't see anything about Sharp Point, the horror did not register for me. Yeah, we saw Aemond and Vhagar looking down and the flames and stuff and we heard how many people died, but it felt so off-screen, even visually it looked really whatever.
Which, granted again, is kinda true for Sharp Point as far as I understand (it's not an important location), but I have a hard time ultimately caring about the "looming death" the way they describe it.
It always feels to me like, if any side actually wanted to minimise death and war, they should just take all their dragons, fly to wherever Vhagar is and kill her and then whoever wins that battle is basically the winner of the war as well. Sure, it's dangerous for Rhaenyra and Co., but as mad as it sounds, it's actually the most empathetic choice, if you actually really care about the Smallfolk. It's also just the simplest and quickest way to win anyway and extremely ressource-efficient.
And so whenever Rhaenyra or anybody else try to come up with plans and tactics and schemes, they ring hollow because it's so obvious that just trying to kill Vhagar with all their might would end the war basically no matter how many dragons die as long as 1 or 2 survive.
I personally don't see the imagery both at the burning mill and rooks rest as glorifying "badass/epic" at all, especially the last 5 mins of Criswins's POV. Horrifying disturbing stuff. It's not the show's fault audiences have been conditioned to get entertained by imagery they don't intend to be particularly entertaining.
Condal has talked about this specific topic on the official podcast and he totally 100% gets it, he knows GRRM is a big pacifist and he wants to work that into his story - but there are obvious budget restraints as with sharp point or the riverlands after all.
The part you mention about Sharppoint is very true. Why did we not see pre-attack where the smallfolk are terrified of seeing Vhagar and just how rageful Aemond was? We didn’t even know beforehand that he was gonna go there to my knowledge
I really wish Hugh would've pushed back against Rhaenyra in the dinner scene, her plan is to... risk the lives and or kill the smallfolk of Lannisport and Oldtown? I understand destroying ships but with Ulf and Hugh witnessing firsthand the devastation and death caused by Rhaenyra's (!!!) blockade surely Hugh would want an end to the small folk suffering in Kings Landing. The fact that Hugh (and Corlys) is so withdrawn and doesn't blame Rhaenyra in the slightest for the death of his daughter is v disappointing.
@@blaubeer8039 Actually, I liked the Burning Mill, but that is not a dragon fight.
It just always seems that dragons are easy to control, look cool, dragonriders are happy being dragonriders and the collateral damage would be kept relatively low if they just duked it out.
Like, yeah, many people died at Rooks Rest, but so did two dragons. In the long-run, this is a net positive when it comes to saving lives.
The restraint there feels so weird, at least to me.
Rhaenrya is a coward at heart. She is afraid to fight. She doesn't want to risk herself or Jace in combat, thus the avoidance of planning how to kill Vhagar in an ambush.
Besides this, why no assaination attempts on Aemond? Vhagar would then be unclaimed at least for a little while
Spoiler for books
Rhaenrya is truly a coward. This leads to her ultimate loss. She has Syrax at the red keep when the dragon pit is attacked by the small folk. Rhaenrya doesn't ride to defend the Dragons in the pit. Her son Joffrey defies her, steals Syrax and goes to the pit. Joffrey dies, Syrax dies and so do all the Dragons in the dragon pit. If Rhaenrya wasn't a coward, some of the dragons would have survived. A dragon being directed outside of the pit could have stopped the attack. Joff knew it and tried. Syrax wouldn't have it. Joff ended up being thrown to his death from his mum's dragon.
It so clearly was meant to be a buildup to a true finally (episode 10). With the cut of two episodes and this season being affected by the writers strike, I am overall happy with what we got for season 2.
*finale
They weren’t even that effected by the writers strike! In fact they were one of the few shows that continued filming because it was not located in the united states!
This whole season just felt like all build up no pay off. Outside of the battle of Rook’s rest feel like we barely saw anything. Some episodes would crawl at a snails pace and then it would feel like it was leading up to something only for it to happen off screen. I honestly questioned what show I was watching during the mud fight
@@OoOMonkeyCoFreakOoOfrom what i heard it was due to budgets cuts by HBO
@@OoOMonkeyCoFreakOoO still, two episodes were cut
The final scene was most foolish on par with the stuff of Seasons 8 and 7. Alicent somehow arrives at Dragonstone and then sells out her children, except for Heleana. What the hell? Her motivation in the first season was to protect her children from Rhaenyra, and she would kill them, as Otto suggested. That and her reinstatement toward Rhaenyra’s actions, with Cole and her siring bastards, and having unmarried sex. What she does in this season makes her a hypocrite. Then they have a stupid conversation, resulting in Alicent giving Rhaenyra Kingslanding and having her kill Aegon. So that was stupid, and she should never have happened, but they want them both to be whitewashed and have a woman power scene.
I can totally see Season 3 opening right after a major battle happens off screen. LoL
Got to save those bucks where you can LOL 😂
Then transition to more useless peace talks tryna prevent a war that shoulda happened right after Luke’s death
This final was so exasperating to me. I watched it with a friend and her boyfriend when it aired and the boyfriend said "well now I have narrative blue balls!" at the credits, and honestly, I think that is just what I was thinking. I know that they still need to properly build suspense for the next season, but they also never properly wrapped up this season! There was too much that was unresolved and I Do Not want to wait two damn years for it to be solved. So help me... I was peeved. A few other points:
1.) I didn't like that Helaena asked her mom "Why do they hate us?" It just feels like clunky dialogue seeking to lean into the "Helaena is innocent" idea. But Helaena is incredibly intuitive and intelligent, she Does Not need her mother to explain the situation at hand to her, not at all. It is a discredit to her character that she asked that.
1.5) I both liked and was confused by her magical involvement with Daemon and Alys this season. I'm not 100? sure what her objective was purposely zoning in on influencing Him as opposed to any of her other family members during an active war this season, but I was intrigued. (I suppose the argument could be he was the more susceptible to being influenced mystically / magically due to his being at the Harrenhal all season.)
2.) I didn't like the Tyland scenes, they just felt so out of place. Almost like cut scenes from GOT. In the after credits, they said they put them in to "lighten the mood" but I think that is all they were good for. It didn't add to anything we desperately needed to know for the final, and it took away from the wrap up time that could have been used for other plots. I will give them Some Credit they refrained from showing him banging a harem. OG GOT would have definitely shown that.
3.) I'm honestly kind of shocked that Alicent went from my least favorite character going in this season with her becoming my favorite character this season. I'm honestly kind of shocked that they made it such a poignant depiction of a lot of women's deconstruction journeys, myself included tbh. It wasn't perfect, In fact I think some of it was a bit hammered over the head, but poignant none the less. Deconstruction, personal identity re-evaluation, autonomy reclaiming, mixed with power and political struggles makes for a completely enthralling watch on my end.
4.) I also but can't help but be enthralled by Aemond this season. He's just positively dripping with Lovecraftian / eldritch horror imagery and characterization I kind of love it. From his wardrobe, his missing eye and sapphire replacement, brooding nature, darker tendencies and obsessions, slow burn erosion of his more empathetic tendencies, and further falling into monstrous nature. Just Peak Lovecraft. He is almost like a character from another story that just kind of plopped in for the drama, but I mean that in a good way. I'm genuinely bemused and entertained by his side of the stories, even if I don't "like" him as a character.
5.) I've been so determined to continue hating Criston Cole until his dying breathe for all his hypocrisy, so I was annoyed they wanted to throw us a bone and humanize him a bit more this episode. Too little too late! You don't get to try and make me empathize with this donut! lol! Also, I think the implication was that Gwayne found out about the affair through talking with the men while camping and resting. That was what I thought the implication was. He just finally got wind of the gossip while having a sit with the men.
overall, I was exasperated by this season's conclusion. If they weren't going to make it 10 episodes, they still needed to manage to wrap things up nicely for the 8 episodes they did have, and honestly overall they didn't deliver. There were still plenty of good parts this season though. The characterization did well overall, even great in some places. But the forward motion of the plot needed a bit brushed up more, yes.
I love moist's take that "this felt a lot like season 7 with teleportation" im pretty sure he was talking about dragonstone to a place 50 miles north of the wall,l, (1500 milesish) vs dragonstone and kings landing, which is like 40 miles away.
Charlie has a tendency to be so confident in matters that he has no knowledge in. It's just frustrating
Some are traveling by boat during wartime and they will be in dragonstone->KL->dragonstone in one day and Rhaenyra send Ser Alfred Broome to Harrenhall on E5 and he did arrive on E8
Bro 40 miles in a boat is long.
@@petrikallio2485 Game of Thrones season one had Dany somehow marry, conceive a child and give birth in one season. Game of thrones has always had small time jumps between scenes and episodes.
@@J_ads2000 I do understand some part when there is really magic part of it, but its not always and like I pointed that they wrote it good on some part and sometimes they just teleported way too much
The irony of your comment...
Tyland being a comic relief target the entire show then getting invited by Abigail Thorn to have sex with her polycule is the Seven's mercy being done upon him. I really didn't like Lohar (played by a trans women) being introduced as a "he". As a trans woman myself, i would feel INCREDIBLY uncomfortable about that, but I'm waiting to hear what Abigail/writers have to say about it.
Loved the dragonseeds, especially Ulf showing Jace is 110% about his fears of giving dragons to unknown riders.
The Alicent/Rhaenyra convos should have been saved for next season, when the writers won't have to make excuses for the two women to meet, and they can see just how much they had changed throughout season 2. While the show is still my favorite Lesbian divorce drama, this season was a clear step down.
About the pronouns: That is actually a more interesting question than I thought first. In such an incredibly sexist world, would sticking to „he“ not mean implicitly to retain „male“ agency? And how would transitioning in such an „alien“ world even work? Is it a change of dress, of pronoun, of voice? The book character is addressed as male but likes wearing female clothing.
it's always a mistake to conflate actor/actress and character, as long as it plausibly works anything goes and identity of the former means nothing towards identity of the latter. Cate Blanchett played Bob Dylan in "I'm not there", are you saying that has uncomfortable implications about either one's gender? Rhaenyra is clearly portrayed to be a cis-woman within this very story and there's nothing wrong with Emma d'Arcy portraying that.
I guess what they were going for here is a woman who gaslit everyone around to view her as a male so they're willing to follow her. So for the character within story: yes, she positively wants to be viewed as male, that's what makes the sailors follow her into battle.
@@LarthVI think they left that ambiguous because were are also supposed to be left guessing.
Alicent's scene with Rhaenyra is complete character assassination and the removal of her last sympathetic traits. And wtf? How is Alicent not being able to sucessfully sell out the life of her son to Rhaenyra count as something going "tragically wrong"? She forced Aegon to be king against his wishes, sabotages and undermines him constantly along the way and then decides to sell his life and that of his brothers to Rhaenyra. She willingly sends her own child to die for something she has done? What horrible forced scene that and their first meeting. They literally spend months together in King's Landing where they could have made all the scenes that they wanted but they couldn't help themselves.
And Alicent brilliant plan to save Helaena and her daughter is to put them in the hands of the people who killed Jaehaerys. Jaehaerys whom everyone forgot since Alicent doesn't even bring him up when Rhaenyra demands "a son for a son".
The sick part is that the writers talked about as if it was a beautifull moment between them.
The first alicent/rhaenyra scene this season was fanservice. This one was pure idiocy.
i mean, she walks away from him when hes burnt and dying and calling out for her. he is fucked up because she is a bad mother who never liked him. it actually is kinda perfectly in character for her to seek to save herself (and Helana too as she wants some kind of redemption to feel better about what shes caused)
@@xavier84623 how is selling the lives of her children "redemption"? She put them under these circunstances and now she just kills them and calls it redemption? What kind of monster thinks like that? 🤮
And instead of offering her own life she offers the life of her son who now must die for the things SHE did. Sarah Hess is responsible for the worst scenes in this show.
She’s just trying to bail, and realized Aegon is already dead by her hand. Theres no selling, you seem very mad at some strange things.
@@masterplokoon8803 yeah she is a monster in many ways, but its also been made clear she kinda views her son as a monster. she is washing her hands of the situation. the actress said in the last episode when she was floating she wanted to be clean, and she was contemplating suicide, THAT is the kind of mental state she is in right now. im not saying her actions are justified, but it make sense for her character imo.
I actually think I would've loved having the dragonseeds be more out of the blue. Out of the three, I think Addam should still have gotten the most screen time so that we could get to know him and Alyn. But Ulf and Hugh? I think it would've been much more fun to go into the sowing not knowing who was going to make it out. I mean it was obvious, even for a series that prides itself on killing off main characters, that those two were going to survive AND claim dragons. Maybe even throw them in as extras in scenes like Aegon going drinking or Hugh seeing Melys head carted into King's Landing, it would be a reward on a rewatch rather than a certainty that takes the viewer out of immersion and gets them thinking of writing and budget constraints.
they pulled a George on us and gave show audiences the aDwD experience.
Don't tell me it's 12 years until season 3😅
They ruined Alicent's character. Went from my favorite in S1 to the worst character in the show by far. Ruined Haelena as well.
The more I think about it, the more I realize they've ruined every female character in the show. None of them act like real people anymore. Which sucks to see as a female ASOIAF fan, given how incredible the female cast of ASOIAF is.
The most likeable character now is Aegon, which is probably unintentional given that the writers went out of their way to make the audience hate him.
Completely agree with this
"Yeah so I kinda just got over the murder of my son.." Like what???
I'm still on board with Alicent, and I definitely find Rhaenyra interesting, but I also think this is a fair opinion to have. I'm especially disappointed about Helaena. I had such high hopes
It gave me season 7 Game of Thrones vibes
Up to this episode. I thought the season was an 8 out of 10 but the finale dropped the ball pretty hard. Not only was Deamon payoff disappointing. I think they kinda ruined his character to a degree. He’s a believer of destiny and for me. It makes him less interesting.
Aemond scenes make him look weak and none threatening. Which maybe is the point?
The scenes with Tyland and the leader were bad. The character was not a good actor and ruined each scene. All there scenes were weak or unnecessary...
The scene with the Alicent/Rhaenyra. Felt off from a story standpoint point. Felt fanfic for some reason? I don’t know. The whole time I kept saying to myself “no way this is in the book” and from what I understand. It wasn’t. There's a few good scenes but I’m obviously disappointed.
Not the worst finale but I would give the episode a 5 and the season a 7. Really hope they pay things of next season but they can't tease any more or hold back.
Sorry to be petty, but it would help your criticisms if you just stated them instead of starting each one off with "I didn't like". There's too much ego in that statement, but your criticisms are fine and fair
7/10 for the season is pretty fair. I was thinking the same, maybe an 8. There were a lot of decisions which I can see a lot of sense behind but just weren't quite executed well enough to be convincing, and warner brothers messed them with 8 episodes. I think they did a pretty solid job considering, but season 1 was better. Here's hoping season 3 gets proper space to be as fulfilling as it definitely can be
7? 8?! This season is lucky if it gets a 5.
I’m most frustrated with the handling of Baela and Rhaena. They are extremely important characters and they’re still so hollow and underdeveloped. My favorites from the book are Nettles, Rhaena, and Baela. Baela is very underdeveloped but still got off better than the other two. To cut Nettles and give Rhaena her plotline only to not give her any lines in the last two episodes feels like an intentional “fuck you.” It seems that my favorite dragon has been cut too!
Based on the show runner's take in interviews, I 100% believe the 8 episodes was due to meddling/writer's strike, and they had planned (and would have preferred) a 10 episode season. Due to that, I applaud them for not squishing 10 episodes worth into 8, and instead keeping the pace. It may have left the "ending" feeling a little light, but honestly I loved every minute of it. We got a good amount of payoff (Daemon and Alicent particularly, and even Cole's last scene really brought a lot around). I'm perfectly happy with the entire season and can't wait for season 3.
Daemon's arc felt like a bit of a waste of time to me. Your take on it I actually appreciate since I didn't really think about him not liking the quibbling lords... I wish he'd gone for that lol. Vision-Viserys could be like "you never had to speak with the Riverlords. I kept peace in the realm on the edge of a knife. Rhaenyra has the finesse, you don't."
Instead he's like "In this story called Fire and Blood--I mean, in the prophecy, I am supposed to support you. I will fill that role now." and what vision-Halaena told him... Idk, felt very contrived.
Because it was contrived, lazy, pointless writing
Agreed with how much the other character arcs are already trimmed so much. Wish we got more of the Cregan Stark and Jace arc in Winterfell
Edit: I love your psych analysis of characters videos! it satisfies my game of thrones/house of the dragon craving in between seasons!
I rewatched the whole season the day of the finale (although skipped a few scenes because I wouldn't finish by ep8 release otherwise), and I still found it mostly enjoyable even knowing a few things were a bit.. odd? Later on.
The dialogue and everything still feels great after what happened to GoT post season 4, and the almost all the characters feel great, I think I simply would've cut some particular scenes here and there, namely a few of the Daemon dreams (the Viserys ones were the goood shit, but a lot of the prior ones didnt need to exist, like the mom one or Daemon One Eyed) maybe a few of the Hull brother scenes (they almost all add up to "I dun want it," bit redundant), some of those.
Obviously some of the other issues are more fundamental, like the shorter season, I definitely would've loved to see the Dragonseeds a little more in action after such a good episode last week, but oh well I guess. The stage is definitely set for the war to be full scale for the next season, so that's some relief, but man it's gonna suck to have to wait 2 more years ;_;
Oh wow, I didn't realize until now that there are only meant to be 8 episodes this season, was expecting 10 like season 1... wtf two years for that?
The Tyland scene went on too long and hurts Ottos story and gave an gluttonous cameo to a youtube personality. The character themselves is hardly important does one thing and then disappears from the story.
Let’s not forget they introduced a whole ass new character and side story on the last episode of the season.
I think you hit the nail on the head with my problem is with Daemons arc, I also would have preferred he reached the same point without the need of a vision to all of a sudden tell him what is the right thing to do or him loosing aspects of his chaotic edge that made him who he was in season 1. I also do get especially worried when writers crack out the destiny future everything is predetermined plot device as it tends to strip characters of their original agencies that made feel tangible and it seems to also transform a brutal war story caused by bickering nobles effecting the smallfolk and beginning the end of the Targaryen dynasty to a story about saving the world and stopping those who are opposing it ie. Aemond.
Rhaenyra feels a bit dull in my opinion compared to season 1 Rhaenyra and it does feel like through the writers trying to make her downfall being tied to the prophecy that it has stripped her of the dynamics she had when she was more morally grey. I don't like the fact that they made her more into a moral paragon compared to her book counterpart, but that's just my book related dislike.
Aemond I feel they were handling well for segments of the Season 2 after they built him so well up in season 1, but it does feel like the writers due to possibly the pacing cuts, they have made him jump into a more impulsive and uncontrolled figure head in the span of an episode. Just compare how he acts in episode 5 to episode 6 and then the jump into the actions he takes in episode 8. The show wants to make him into the central villain, but they have jumped the leg work to fully transform him into this remorseless maniac, who just doesn't listen.
Alicent has had her character essentially run through the mud and she only serves a point to be made a hypocrite for the audience, well she flipflops between trying to care for her family and whether or not she just wants to undermine them or just betray them.
Criston has been getting a lot of screen time, but it no longer feels like he is an active player for the greens, rather just someone whos is following their orders to his death, with no resistance or plans of his own.
The green faction as a whole, I can't even call the green faction anymore. Alicent is clearly no longer on their side and is willing to throw all of them under the bus, Helena is like a passive observer who doesn't even play a part in the group, Aegon is incapacitated and is working on his own with Larys, Criston Cole just became someone who is passively walking towards his death and Otto is in jail for some reason. All this just leaves Aemond as the main figure head of the greens, and really the only person currently directly opposing Rhaenyra and the blacks. This no longer feels like the blacks vs the greens, but the blacks vs Aemond and his army.
I enjoyed the episode. My only negative thought was that I really could've done without Tyland Lannister and the Triarchy. I would've like to see more of Jace with Cregan Stark and ANY of Jace with Lady Jeyne Arryn in the first episode of Season 2.
I think they might be setting up something with Tyland 🤞(spoilery territory tho)
I liked the idea of Tyland, just not the execution, but it would've been nice to see more Cregan, yeah
They definitely have their work cut out for them with season 3. Theyve lost a lot of fan support, and good will, reading comments here and on reddit
I really feel the “missing episodes” but overall, despite the feeling of *something is missing* this season has made me feel wonder, excitement, anxiety. it’s made me feel like rhaenera is “justified” and then horrified in that feeling. It’s really wonderful. Seeing her with the dragons last episode, even seeing the boats and hearing her theme, I totally got indoctrinated! Even with aegon, I found myself questioning what I can forget, how charisma makes me less upset, how “evil” may not be so black and white, questioning why I think the way I think about these characters.
Overall I think there’s so much potential for the future seasons!
Firstly, I love your videos.
My take: everyone doesn’t deserve main character energy or fully formed character archs. The fact that we want this means that all of the characters are compelling. To me, the show is written much like the source material; all is not fully formed and we are left to fill in the pieces as we would. “History” as we know it full of facts AND conjecture. we’re forced to do the same with this story and these characters. I’m satisfied by it.
Also.. TYROD.. his name is TYROD. Period 😂😂😂
In a lot of ways, yeah although you still need enough characters to have reached an end of an arc in order for it to feel like a complete season. Some had them, but not enough for me personally
I think it’s safe to say that the general consensus is that it’s a good episode 8 of 10, except there’s no 9 and 10 so therefore it’s disappointing. But I wouldn’t say bad.
Daemon showed growth before touching the weirwood tree his convos w alys showed how he’s more opening to listening and taking counsel then just taking action, asking for help, etc
My bf and I didn’t even realize it was the season finale. I thought it would be 10 episodes, but when it showed the “making of the show” clip at the end I was like NO WAY THATS THE FINALE?!
I just feel like they’re stretching it out… but of course they are.
The prophecy clip was neatly done but it really was like oh ok… so… Daemons just totally changed now? Hmm. His whole Harrenhal story was so boring.
While I do feel Rhaenyra does deserve the crown “legally,” I don’t feel like she’s anywhere close to queen material. Rhaenys would have totally been the one to do it. What a badass.
8 episodes would have been enough if the writers had a decent sense of pace.
I enjoyed Season 2 personally. Don’t really understand the fuss. Maybe the younger generations that seem outraged about trivial matters need to learn to appreciate the fact that there is entertainment on this scale at all. Thank you for your thoughtful videos.
alicent teleporting between kings landung and deagonstone is also pure stupidity.
it took weeks for rhaeneyra previously to travel to kings landing to meet her.
Rhaenyra is not allowed to be a character, as simple as that
She needs to be the feminist icon held back by the patriarchy, so she is not allowed to behave like a human and get consequences
She needs to be a saint that doesn't want bloodshed, but her waiting to act is not framed as bas because the ones complaining about that are the evil patriarchy men that are agaist her because she's a woman (despite supporting her as the queen, I guess they forgot that part)
She complains about having no knowledge of war because of the patriarchy, but she can't listen to the council because that would mean for her to listen to the men, despite them being there for that exact reason, but listens to mysaria that only validates her
Nobody will ever ask her why she didn't bother to lear about war strategy or politics despite her being named heir as a kid
Subscribed ! Finally, someone giving their own thoughts on the episode instead of just repeating what we all saw and sprinkling in a few details from the book
Part watching the show is the investment. You have to get through buildup episodes or even buildup season to get to that showdown.
And now we have to wait two more years for the next season 😐
You don't know that. Just because it was that long between 1 and 2 doesn't mean it will be that long between 2 and 3. GOT had long waits between seasons too. These shows aren't 30 min sitcoms you can film in a studio is Burbank!
@@carastone3473 yeah I hope soo too 😢
@carastone3473 you're not wrong... but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.
@@carastone3473Game of Thrones put out a season every year between 2011-2019 except for 2018 so this long wait only happened once. House of the Dragon season three is starting preproduction in early 2025, we are not getting the season until 2026 at the earliest.
Am I the only one who had a problem with Corlys (portrayed by a black man) being a man who had a baby momma side chick and abandoning his children???
I mean he is far from alone in that
Daemon seeing the coming Winter/Walkers etc seemed like such a cop out to me
We had a whole season's arc of him slowly learning and evolving, only to unnecessarily Deus Ex Machina it at the end so we know FOR SURE hes now on Rhaenyras side, instead of letting him continue to be occasionally grey, and/or taking the time to expore why Rhaenyras queenship now becomes his main goal
It cheapens his entire arc, and noone is going to remember his slow growth. Instead it becomes your boring stock standard story 'I didnt believe it, then i saw it via magic, now i agree with your interpretation of it wholeheartedly'
If he had just had a White Walker Dragon dream at the begininng of the season, sulked about it for a bit, then come around would it have been any different?
I wasn't quite for sure how to articulate why I didn't like that so much, but you've summed it up quite perfectly!
Season 3 15 episodes … too much goin on with 8 episodes no time for slow burners or wasted conversations
Warner was like "We did it with the Hobbit and it payed off, so lets do the same with House of the Dragon!"
Bring back D and D
If D and D directed blood and cheese episode, it would have been iconic.
It feels to me as though they may have straight up made episodes nine and ten of this season into episodes one and two of next season. Of course I'm speculating, and It's probably not that simple. But, as you said yourself, it seems like they've just moved this season's climax into the beginning of season three, instead of compressing the story to fit better within eight episodes. And I'm definitely happy about that.
I think the way this season handled its lack of episodes was probably the right choice in the long run. However, in the short term, it does leave season 2 feeling like a mere step in the journey. I'm hoping the whole thing will play better in context, once said context actually exists.
Also, I have to say that the people claiming Alicent's character has been "assassinated" really confuse me. Alicent, a historically distant and detached mother, being willing to sacrifice Aegon's life for her own escape, after a season of becoming disillusioned with her sons and the patriarchal power structure she's been upholding, is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the level of Jamie, without any probable motive, in a nonchalant tone, retroactively saying he never much cared for something he explicitly always cared for lol.
People keep saying that Alicent's love for her children has been a defining part of her character and... has it? Her most notable moment of loyalty to her children in my memory is her defense of Aemond after he loses his eye. But I think that had just as much to do with her resentment toward Rhaenyra's family as it did with her genuine care for her son. I think of her, generally, as always having been a pretty shit parent--certainly WANTING to be loving but often failing to even understand her children.
But, who knows, my opinion could just be bad, I guess.
Anyhow, if Alicent's conclusion this season didn't work for some people, I get it. That's a totally fair element to question. But man people are being reductive and hyperbolic about it.
It's interesting how the opinion on the length of the season is split. Many people are saying it should have been 10 eps & was rushed, others are saying they padded it & it dragged & could have been shorter. 🤔
I feel like so much could have been solved, even with the obvious budgetary issues they encountered, with a simple scene of all the dragonriders approaching an important farmstead/civic center and you show the queen or her son performing a burning pass, their faith resolute, and then it ends on the indecision of hugh, alyn and ulf at least we'd be concretely left with the important cliffhangers...it could be a 4m segment. so shocking the episode felt like it had filler too. nuts.
why does corliss even exist. if they dropped his whole story and added nettles it would have been better.
I think it had a lot to do with BUDGET- if HBO won’t cough up the money for the plot point battles, they have to wait for the Season 3 check. Sad but true.
This season triggered my A Dance with dragons ptsd.
Ya know who else didn’t give a satisfying climax at the end of their most recent release and moved the climactic stuff to the start of the next installment? George! I think people are getting way too upset about the ending when GRRM did kinda the same thing with ADWD
Which also annoyed me although, to be fair, the main characters still reached the end point for most of their arcs in that books, so I don't think it was quite as bad. Not the proper endpoints, I should say, but ones that still mostly worked
This show is single-handedly making the case for why women shouldn’t be rulers…. Except Rhaenys. And Dany in GOT was a good leader until she lost in season 8. Rhaenyra and Alicent are just indecisive and emotional and slow to act and they spend too much time complaining about the fact that they’re women instead of using the advantages that being a woman provides. Cersei was good at that. She made her gender her strength and used it to get what she wanted different ways
Nice. Good analysis. I think you lay the blame at the feet of the proper contributors for the shows shortcomings, but also kind of tackle it from the point of reality that like, any adaptation will have to make certain changes because it’s a different medium for storytelling, so sometimes it’s kind of choosing what’s the better choice between a number of bad options for faithful adaptation and one that’s creatively independent and works with what it has? Yeah. It sucked that it feels like studio problems and lack of confidence led to a really great season sort of being cut off at the ankles, if you know what I mean. Anyways, great video as always!😊
Funnily enough, I think Daemon would be a far better ruler than Rhaenyra. A good king isn't necessarily a nice guy. Rhaenyra has continually shown poor judgement, a complete lack of duty, and an unwillingness to take decisive action.
Skilled video screenwriters doesn't need to be skilled video editors but you still very good at the first and
good at the later, thanks for the video
It wasn't too short, they just didn't need to have half of each episode be a girl running around the mountains.
I wouldn’t read fire and blood I read it between s1 and 2 of hotd and kinda regret it
I think what’s wild to me is how much more enjoyable is is without listening to any of the “after show”. My personal interpretations and others interpretations of scenes I thought made more sense. But definitely also agree, it felt like a pretty good episode 8… for a 10 episode season. As a finale it left so much off, HBO is really letting people down by trimming the budgets for shows that NEED big budgets.
Great video! Also I'm looking forward to more Katie videos, I was so invested in that series
It felt like Season 2 ended at the end of episode 4 and the build up for Season 3 was the remaining 4 episodes. Why drag us through H-hal that many episodes? Why have young R chasing Sheepstealer ALL this time? Literally, all her scenes in the finale are only seconds at a time and zero dialogue. We get it--she WANTS this dragon. 🙄 And Otto Hightower, just randomly in some box with bars? How? How did anyone agree that writing and editing was acceptable? And Alicent's brother just rolling up on C. Cole cause he's whiffing A's handkercheif. I had to rewind three times on this show, thinking I missed a scene somewhere. It was bizarre, to say the least.
I disagree in this way: I think character development (and arcs) were done, achieved and maybe overdone, at the expense of plot development.
It is the plot that did not progress much.
Did we forget about the writers strike and how it was initiated just after the decision from up top to reduce the episode count?
Even though some scenes were boring like Daemon in Harrenhall, Baella at Vale or underwhelming like Blood and Cheese. I was okay with them. The scene I genuinely disliked was Alicent and Rhaenyra's finale interaction, it felt forced and idiotic. It felt like they wrote that long scene with two great actresses to try to win an Emmy rather than moving the plot naturally and make sense for characters to do and say things written for that scene. I can understand Alicent wanting the freedom after camping in King's Woods but it doesn't make sense that she agreed to make sacrifice of her sons to protect her and Haelena and stop unnecessary bloodshed in Kingslanding. Neither she is fully commiting to protect her family, nor she is being righteous enough and ready to face consequences of her actions which started the war.
Again why is she so worried about saving lives of common folk all of sudden over her sons. I get the idea of Alicent asking for mercy but there are better ways to do that scene.
My idea is if they wanted to develop Alicent's character to make her look changed and better person. The camping trip could have been shorter and she instead spends a couple of days with the smallfolk in KL. Her interaction with poor people suffering the effects of war could have been a better driving force to take such risky decision to visit Dragonstone. She could come across Rhaenyra's maid in the King's landing and force her to help arrange a meeting with Rhaenyra discussing terms of surrender. This makes a lot more sense than randomly knocking the castle at Dragonstone and uses the theme of commonfolk lives matter better.
Great video as always! I don't know if you have watched it or not, but I think you would get a lot out of The Bear - a psychological breakdown of Carmy would make for an amazing video!
i am rlly glad, that they didnt try to press the planned 10 episodes into 8.
Season was absolutely fine. We got so used to GoT that we crave hype and action all the time but it's a different show. If GoT never existed and people watched this on their its merits, no one would be complaining. Not even early GoT had finales were amazing btw. I trust HotD. That ending with the music change during the marches was incredible though
I love your videos and I wish you would have done interview with the vampire instead. Your analysis of those characters would have been really interesting and honestly it’s a superior show that deserves the attention. It’ll be on Netflix this month in the US so I think more people will watch.
I still loved this show. And your channel too❤
Absolute garbage season. Dissapointed in George Martin for not controlling the situation again.
How would he have done it
I’d trade all these projects for The Winds of Winter
Im so tired of people saying the series was too slow, it was all build up. There's nothing wrong with that. I am so stoked for next season and that's because of the work put in this season.
Having nothing happen all season to make people wait 2 years for the actual story to happen is fucking stupid stop making excuses
@@Tupadre97 your right, nothing happened, just a child beheaded, the most wonderful woman in the world dying on dragon back, prince's trying to murder there brother to be king, multiple war crimes, twins killing each other. But again, your right, nothing happened.
I think stuff definitely happened, and I agree about that, but it doesn't mean it had a complete arc. A season still needs enough satisfying payoff. You can cliffhangers on plot points but arc wise, you need some sense of a cycle completing and I personally don't think there's quite been enough
Thanks for the debriefs! Always a pleasure to watch 🐉
oh damn, thank you! That's really kind 😊
Who taught the dragon seeds the commands. Didn't the dragon trainers toss the toys out of the cot last episode? 🤔
The season finale should've been titled The Rogue Prince, concluding Daemon's storyline with the final scene including Vhaegar.
Just like how s1 e2 was called the Rogue Prince
i feel like season 2 had so many great individual scenes but was stitched together haphazardly, like the opposite of "greater than the sum of its parts". i do wonder how much of this would be fixed if it had two more episodes. as many have been saying, it does read like ep 8 out of 10 instead of a proper finale.
Damon has never been a serious candidate for the Iron Throne. Even he said it was dragons, not dreams, who made them conquerors. He and his one dragon versus the Greens and their what, 3-4 dragons? He and his one dragon versus Rhaenyra and her little dragon army? He would have been a moron to even attempt to take the throne by himself which is why his reaffirmation of his allegiance to Rhaenyra was fuckin’ pointless to me and didn’t hit nearly as hard as when he gave his crown to Viserys.
They zoomed in on the wrong ideas and plot points and spent less time on things that mattered. I don't need another woe is me Alicent scene. Develop the riverlands armies. Stop cutting jaces plot and giving it to other characters. Dont tell me about Daeron introduce him. The harrnehal plot could've been a two episode arc but they really meandered about.
This is definitely the best episode 8 review that I have seen so far, as it seems that many people seem unable to grasp what is going on with the characters or which things tie together. Yes, the episode was disappointing - but only by HotD standards and because episode 7 was really good and this is the last one. I think you've hit the nail on the head with blaming the decision to only make 8 episodes because some things would have needed more time to breathe, such as Ulf going from a zero to an utter dick mode - sure, he just got a dragon, but I don't think the ingrained respect to the crowned heads and nobility would have evaporated so quickly. What I do blame the writers for, though, is having Alicent's brother charge Criston in front of the whole camp, Rhaena walking off on her own without anyone missing her or looking for her, and the highly dubious way of Orville getting Alicent to Dragonstone, especially after Aemond ordered all ships to be searched. I mean, Mysaria getting a disguised Rhaenyra to King's Landing was already stretching it but it could have worked; now it was very apparently a plot device to get a parallel scene to their first encounter. The scene itself _was_ written well, I just wish they took care to explain how Alicent managed to get there (perhaps take the book detail about Aegon being smuggled from the KL under a heap of fish, since they took a different course for him and Larys, it would demonstrate even better how desperate she is).
12:00 Tyland negotiating with the Triarchy to deal with the blockade is a legitimate plot hole. It's not just a gap in the story, it's an actual failure of logical story progression. It makes no sense... because of the blockade.
How does he even get to Essos? They spent the whole season making the blockade a major plot point, and it is clearly a significant obstacle the Greens have no easy answer for. In order to bypass it, Tyland has to go to some other port to find a ship, and one that is friendly to the Greens at that. Maidenpool is the closest unblockaded port, but is aligned with the Blacks, so it's out. So is Gulltown in the Vale, for the same reason. The only other option I can think of that isn't too far away to be viable is Weeping Town, in the Stormlands. Possibly Storm's End, which does have a small dock, but Shipbreaker Bay is called that for a reason. Everything else is significantly further, and Weeping Town isn't exactly convenient, either, considering the distance from King's Landing and several significant geographic barriers in the way.
Aemond states at the beginning of episode 6 that it is a fortnight's march from King's Landing to Harrenhal; he dispatches both Criston Cole and Tyland in the same scene. Harrenhal is relatively close to King's Landing, but by the end of episode 8, Cole, Gwayne, and their troops are still on the march, suggesting that the two weeks have not yet passed. In order for Tyland to get around the blockade, he has to go much further to find a ship (half as much again if he sails from Storm's End, twice as far from Weeping Town), and then make the actual sea passage to Tyrosh, finish the negotiations, and set sail on the return trip all in the same span of time, which utterly beggars belief. Instead, he apparently simply teleports there because the writers need plot to happen, because they locked Otto Hightower (who handles all the negotiations with the Triarchy by letters in the book) in a cell for some reason. And, because Tyland is sailing with the Triarchy fleet on the return... well, I suppose it'll be interesting to see how the writers manage to get him back to King's Landing in time for other plot things to happen.
Remember when this world felt really big because the geography and the distances involved imposed limitations on the movement of characters and affected how the story played out? I do. I miss that.
Hello. I made a comment when this video first came out. Not that I have a point to make. I mean I’m talking to a bunch of people I’ll never meet. I just wanted to say, I thought this was episode eight of two more episodes we were going to get lol. I looked for episode nine yesterday and was like oh… wow. So that was it? My excitement was predicated entirely on the promise of two more episodes down the road haha. More or less, I’m sharing this for the sake of enjoying the laugh I had. No validation goals or anything. I love this creator, but that’s not what it’s about either. I literally just wanted to say that I died laughing when I found out episode eight was the last of this season. I really expected eight to be a set up for two amazing final episodes. Wow. Talk about going from a magic carpet ride to missing the rug entirely…
It wasn't too short. The series has been dragged out WAY TOO much. That's why its dull.
Both are true at the same time.
I really hope that the show creators did this on purpose to stick it to WB for cutting their budget. This show is a once in a career opportunity to make and if they do the fans dirty by cutting so much content just to move quicker and put out less episodes… they’re not going to do the story justice. I really hope that WB learns a lesson from this disappointing finale.